Danny Boy's Mk4 Build - Putting the project on hold for a while... [Archive]

facultyofmusic

07-14-2021, 02:45 AM

Hello FFF! Dan here. This forum is a library of treasures. After spending countless days pouring myself over build threads, I’m starting on my FFR build! Nice to meet all of you, and I look forward to conversing with you all! LET’S GO BUILDERS!

I ordered my FFR with the following options:

MkIV Complete Kit
Powder-coated frame
Gen3 Coyote + T56 Magnum
Coyote headers with Integrated Cats.
2015 IRS
Wilwood Brake Kit
2018 IRS 3.55 Center Section & Spindles
Manual Steering Rack

Some decisions I made when placing the order:

Q: Cats or no cats?
A: There are 2 reasons as to why I opted for cats: The smell and the reduction in sound. I’ve read on many threads here that the roadster is deafening, and I’d like to drive my roadster without requiring earplugs.

Q: Donor or new components?... or try my luck at the junkyards?
A: This decision was an easy one after considering my time constraints on this project. I don’t own the house in which I’m currently building the car, and I’d like to have the car registered and ready to drive within the next 10 months. This plus a demanding day job meant I won’t have the time and energy to find a donor just to rip out all the components and debug the parts to ensure they’re in working order. The original plan was to get a donor, but that quickly changed after carefully evaluating the situation I’m in.

Q: Rear suspension setup. IRS? 3-link?
A: IRS. If I’m building a cobra then I want it to drive like one!

Q: Manual or powered steering rack?
A: In the beginning I was very concerned with steering difficulty in parking lots with a manual steering rack. After driving my friend's kit car with a manual rack, however, I realized that it's not bad at all. Once the car starts moving it's fine. Manual it is for now! If I ever get tired of it, I'll purchase a power steering rack and install it. It can't be THAT difficult, right? (famous last words.)

Q: Why do this now? Why not do this after you get married, have kids, get kids through college, retire, etc?
A: Because I've talked to too many people who told me "you're doing the thing I wish I did when I had the time to do it." I realized that there will never come a time when building a kit car is a "financially wise" idea, nor will there ever be the perfect circumstances to get started. You either do it or you don't. I choose to make my cobra dreams a reality, and the best time to do it is now.

A bit about myself:
I’m a 27 year old engineer currently residing in Northern California. Building a car of my own is a life-long dream, and the time just felt right. I’m an engineer who mainly works with computers. I’ve done various mods / self maintenance to my cars, but never something as big as a FFR. ...but I dive into this adventure knowing that I won’t be alone! The fantastic build threads from you forum veterans give me tremendous confidence. I’ll be standing on the shoulders of giants and I’m beyond excited.

Let the building begin!

mburger

07-14-2021, 05:10 AM

Congratulations! Good for you and best of luck on your build!
Just a couple comments if I may. If you’re concerned about the noise level of the stock FF pipes, I personally wouldn’t use cats for that purpose but if you have smog laws to deal with then I get it. You can sell the FF pipes and get Boig’s Quiet Pipes. Some like the Gas N’s as well. Coyote owners will need to chime in here but I think the Coyote burns cleaner generally speaking than your basic carbed pushrod engine. So the smell shouldn’t be enough to discourage driving it. (It’s a race car after all) ��
True, once moving, standard steering is fine, but since you’re spending money on IRS to drive it like a Cobra, you’ll find doing that much easier with PS, plus, with PS you can increase negative camber for much better tracking at speed and better handling. Having said that, anything you do is a personal decision and there’s no wrong answer. I always say concerning my car, “My car, my way”.
Many of us aren’t able to fulfill our “lifelong” dream until MUCH later in life, so kudos to you!
Again congrats!

edwardb

07-14-2021, 05:23 AM

My welcome and congratulations as well. Nice build plan. That's almost the same driveline as I have in my Coupe build (build thread in my sig line below) and it's excellent. Two comments from me as well: (1) The sound pressure level you get with an open top Roadster is only partially from the exhaust. Efforts to quiet down the exhaust have many options. Cats being one I guess. Your choice. But you're not going to do anything about wind, traffic, etc. I've done the SPL measurements. You're making a mistake IMO driving these without some level of hearing protection regardless of your exhaust setup. (2) Echoing mburger's comments, you only cite effort for power steering. That's a common conclusion. But the change you can make to the front alignment with power steering makes the car so much better to drive. The way it tracks, returns to center, etc. is much improved. I've had both and would never build without power steering.

mburger

07-14-2021, 07:45 AM

edwardb

07-14-2021, 09:37 AM

I’m curious Paul. If you could give the exhaust a percentage of the total ambient noise, what would it be? Apologies if that has been posted prior. Also, it was genuinely a pleasure meeting you at LCS and pictures don’t do your Coupe justice. Dan, make sure to go through “edwardb’s” Cobra build thread. You’ll learn quite a lot there.

Thanks. It was good meeting you and lots of other forum acquittances. Hard to give a percentage of ambient noise compared to exhaust since it's so widely variable. At slower speeds and a heavy right foot, clearly the exhaust sound is mostly what you hear. But at cruise in 5th (TKO) with my Coyote Roadster and Gas-N pipes, the exhaust was barely audible compared to the ambient noise. That was with regular Gas-N pipes. They've since released the touring version which are even quieter.

460.465USMC

07-14-2021, 07:59 PM

Congrats on your purchase! What an opportunity to do this at your age. Way to go!

There are other F5 builders in this forum in NorCal, so you should have a good community of support.

mburger

07-14-2021, 11:04 PM

Thanks. It was good meeting you and lots of other forum acquittances. Hard to give a percentage of ambient noise compared to exhaust since it's so widely variable. At slower speeds and a heavy right foot, clearly the exhaust sound is mostly what you hear. But at cruise in 5th (TKO) with my Coyote Roadster and Gas-N pipes, the exhaust was barely audible compared to the ambient noise. That was with regular Gas-N pipes. They've since released the touring version which are even quieter.

Got it. Thanks!

facultyofmusic

07-15-2021, 05:20 PM

Thank you all for the warm welcome and kind words! ...and yes, not a day goes by where I’m not grateful for the opportunity to build my own dream cobra. It’s definitely not something to take for granted.

@mburger and @edwardb, those are great points on exhaust and road noise that I haven’t considered before, I’m especially surprised to hear that the exhaust sound can be drowned out! I do plan to purchase a quieter side pipe in the future and I’m currently debating between the gas’n touring pipes vs the boig quiet pipes. Ideally I’ll visit a fellow FFR builder near me who has one of these and hear it for myself.

with PS you can increase negative camber for much better tracking at speed and better handling.

you only cite effort for power steering. That's a common conclusion. But the change you can make to the front alignment with power steering makes the car so much better to drive. The way it tracks, returns to center, etc. is much improved. I've had both and would never build without power steering.
@edwardb and @mburger Thank you for the valuable insight on alignment flexibility with power steering, I’m seriously glad you mentioned it. How difficult is it to swap in power-steering after the build? If it’s not worth it, I may need to give FF a call right now to order power steering…

There are other F5 builders in this forum in NorCal, so you should have a good community of support.
@460.465USMC Yeah and I really look forward to meeting them! Is there a subforum here for FF car meet and greet events? I’ve been to one car meet in Monterey a few years ago and saw a few FFR cobras, but if there’s a way to know where they’ll be I’d go to as many as I can to get inspiration and talk with the community. A buddy of mine is seriously considering a type65 coupe, but he isn’t sure if he’ll fit in one. Would be great if we could try out the fitment during one of these meets.

P.S. Just got all the aluminum panels taken off! Still trying to figure out how image attachment works, but pictures are coming soon!

mburger

07-15-2021, 08:17 PM

“How difficult is it to swap in power-steering after the build? If it’s not worth it, I may need to give FF a call right now to order power steering…”
Definitely doable! There are threads on here on the subject. I bought my completed Mk1 without PS and had it added. Search the forums for conversion threads. I would just offer, that if you think you might go with PS, it is easier to do it during your build. You’ll save money on parts and alignments.
When searching the forums, use Google and enter this as your search string: site:thefactoryfiveforum.com <word or words to search on>

460.465USMC

07-16-2021, 03:08 PM

@460.465USMC Yeah and I really look forward to meeting them! Is there a subforum here for FF car meet and greet events? I’ve been to one car meet in Monterey a few years ago and saw a few FFR cobras, but if there’s a way to know where they’ll be I’d go to as many as I can to get inspiration and talk with the community. A buddy of mine is seriously considering a type65 coupe, but he isn’t sure if he’ll fit in one. Would be great if we could try out the fitment during one of these meets.

Hi Dan. For NorCal discussions/events, click on Forums on the top menu, then scroll down to Regional Discussions, click on Pacific, then click on Norcal Discussion. Also, a fellow NorCal forum member, Fman, recently completed a really nice build. Travis is a very helpful guy, and may have other suggestions for connection with local events/Cobra owners in your area.

460.465USMC

07-16-2021, 03:11 PM

Still trying to figure out how image attachment works, but pictures are coming soon!

Have you read the very helpful post by David Hodgkins on how to embed photos? This is what I used to learn how. Very helpful post.

How to use the Image Gallery to embed pictures in posts (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts)

facultyofmusic

07-18-2021, 03:02 AM

Thank you @460.465USMC and @mburger for the tech tips! It's very much appreciated. That post on image gallery is a god send! ... and I'll give Travis a shout sometime as well as keep an eye on the NorCal forum.

As for power steering, I think I'll go with the manual rack for now. I have a feeling that I might kick myself for this later, but I really do want to try my roadster without power steering.

Today I put the control arms together and onto the frame. I swear I almost ripped my table off the floor getting that damn ball-joint into the UCA (upper control arm). In hindsight I should have gotten one of those vice cushions to avoid putting these ugly scratch marks on the ball-joint.
150986

Due to back-order issues, I did not receive the springs for my front KONI coil-overs. I put the coil-over together anyways, just without the springs. The IFS spindles / hubs were also back ordered, so now I've got this weird half-completed front suspension setup. It looks kinda weird, but it's the best we can do for now.
150987150991

Interesting observation: It seems that there isn't a left or right UCA. The pivot joints next to the ball-joint are not the same. One's permanently sleeved, while the other one is free rotating. I read from this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40330-Front-UCA-alignment&p=462977&viewfull=1#post462977) that there's no left or right UCA. I was initially worried that FF might have sent me two right UCAs. Just to make sure y'all, there IS no left or right UCA, right?
150988150992

Interesting observation 2: The factory pre-installed ball-joints on the front lower control arms have the ball-joint boot secured onto the ball-joint. I could not find anything to do the same for the UCA ball-joint. See picture for reference: Notice how the LCA boot has a black ring securing the boot, while the UCA does not. Can anyone shed some light on this? Did I miss a step?
150989150990

At this point, I'd like to dispense some fool's wisdom to my past unexperienced self. I hope this will be helpful to those who reads this in the future.

Buy a vice cushion or use some paper/fabric when twisting the ball-joint in with the vice. The ball-joint takes a crap ton of effort and metal-to-metal contact will scratch up the prestine looking ball-joint!
Wear gloves when assembling the KONI coil-overs. When pushing the sleeve onto the coil-over the sleeve suddenly gave and I yanked my pinky between the sleeve and t he coil-over body. I'm never working on stuff without my work gloves again. Lesson learned.
The front F panels get in the way of front suspension installation quite a bit. I wonder why the manual suggested installing the F panel first. I don't see any rivet locations blocked off by the suspension components. If I do it again I'd drill the holes into the F panel, drill the matching holes on chassis, install front suspension, and then finally rivet in the F panel.

I want to get started on rear suspension, but I'm missing a few pieces for that too, especially the bolts required for mounting the center-section. Let's see what we can do with the parts we have. That's all for now~

Fman

07-31-2021, 11:04 PM

Welcome and nice build plan. I am also a fan of power steering have enjoyed having it in my car. As far the UCA boot goes here is a pic of mine before the spindle was attached.

One other recommendation would be to use Cleco's on your panels, it will allow you to easily remove them. I was surprise during my build how many times you need to remove a panel to either fix or change something.

One last comment on your exhaust noise concern with cats, I have the Gas 'n touring pipes which definitely help quiet the car down a bit comparing to the FFR pipes. Still loud but tolerable. Each engine also plays a factor on exhaust loudness. I just helped someone install Gas 'n touring pipes on a 302 and it is MUCH quieter than my 427. Same pipes but different engines. So keep this is mind when someone talks about exhaust noise make sure it is apples to apples with the same engine.

Congrats on the arrival of your kit, looking forward to following your build.

What part of Nor-Cal are you from?

Travis

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128094&d=1589145301

toadster

08-04-2021, 02:21 PM

facultyofmusic

09-28-2021, 05:44 PM

I must admit, I think it's about time I kicked my writer's block out the window.

Over the past 2 months I've made a ton of progress on the car. I'll be playing some catch up on the build-thread, but we'll catch up soon!

Welcome and nice build plan. I am also a fan of power steering have enjoyed having it in my car. As far the UCA boot goes here is a pic of mine before the spindle was attached.

One other recommendation would be to use Cleco's on your panels, it will allow you to easily remove them. I was surprise during my build how many times you need to remove a panel to either fix or change something.

One last comment on your exhaust noise concern with cats, I have the Gas 'n touring pipes which definitely help quiet the car down a bit comparing to the FFR pipes. Still loud but tolerable. Each engine also plays a factor on exhaust loudness. I just helped someone install Gas 'n touring pipes on a 302 and it is MUCH quieter than my 427. Same pipes but different engines. So keep this is mind when someone talks about exhaust noise make sure it is apples to apples with the same engine.

Congrats on the arrival of your kit, looking forward to following your build.

Many thanks Travis for the warm welcome! I'm in the Bay Area, in Sunnyvale. Your picture gives me assurance that I'm not missing anything from mine, thank you.
I followed you and other forum thread's advice and got the Clecos; WOW WHAT A LIFESAVER THEY ARE.

As for the pipes, I plan to stick to FFR's stainless steel pipes for now as the gas'n pipes will be an extra expense. Is this a good idea? Would you say to get them now so I don't have to fiddle with switching the pipes later on, or is it simple enough that I won't need THAT much effort to switch them? A part of me says "just use what you have now and incrementally update your build as you drive it and enjoy it over the years", but another part of me says "I think you'll be too lazy to take things apart again once you've put it together."

facultyofmusic

09-28-2021, 05:46 PM

I'm in Folsom, CA but plenty around the area... check out the NorCal Discussions (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forumdisplay.php?18-NorCal-Discussions)
and we have a Factory Five Sacramento (https://www.facebook.com/groups/737154330388703) page too, depending on where in NorCal you reside!

Hey Todd and thanks for the welcome! I'd love to meet up sometime when I visit Sacramento. Can't wait to see your cobra in person!

facultyofmusic

09-28-2021, 06:12 PM

Lots of work done in the past 2 weeks! The toughest part was deciding what to work on since every major component has some back ordered part. Missing bushings and bolts for the IRS… missing tie rods for steering… missing brake switches for the pedal box… you name it. Let’s keep churning along the stuff yet to be done!

I ordered new knuckles and hubs through factory five. Damn these things are beautiful when new! I almost don’t want to ruin it by using it. Oh hey, the manual says I’m supposed to take a sawzall to it. Oh no…
153900153901

Surprisingly they actually look pretty good (for my standards). Whew! As for the wheel studs, I can’t believe I broke my vice trying to get them out! Ended up buying a new vice from YOST. So much better! In the beginning I was afraid of stripping the wheel stud threads so I tried pushing the studs in using a ball joint separator. That didn’t work out too well. I broke one of the ball joint separators and one of the studs went in a little crooked. I finally gave up and decided to do it the old fashioned way of using a sacrificial lugnut. Boy that went in easy, and it didn’t damage the wheels studs at all!
153902

I wanted to start doing chassis aluminum panels, so I needed the frame higher. I bought 4 ESCO jackstands, the ones with a circular rubber top. I then cut a similar sized hole at the bottom of my frame dolly so it fits snug. It worked, but it looks kinda of dangerous when I put the whole system on top of wheel dollies. What do y’all think? Should I add some reinforcements?
153903153904

With the chassis raised to chest level, I started putting on the panels. I thought I’d be okay with putting them on the way they are, but something in me just screamed “USE A COATING TO PROTECT IT!” A few days later I was in my backyard applying sharkhide to the panels. Boy this sharkhide metal protectant is amazing! The differences are night and day.
153905153906

During the panel cleaning and coating process I learned something valuable. Get good masks that filter out organic vapours! Luckily I stopped by home depot to buy one of those dual-cartrige 3M masks. I wonder if I would have died breathing in that stuff. It smelled so bad!

It’s time for some fool’s wisdom once again! Dear past self:
Make sure to buy a good vice. A bad vice will ruin your day and your wallet.
Don’t use a ball joint separator when installing wheel studs. Just do it the old fashioned way of “sucking it in” with a sacrificial lug nut on the other side. Make sure to use plenty of washers and plenty of grease and you’ll do just fine.
Buy a good mask when working with acetone and metal protectants! Make sure the cartridges say it filters out organic vapours. That stuff smells real bad!
Coating the aluminum panels with sharkhide wasn’t as much work as I thought. I finished all the boxed-panels in 3 hours.

Rsnake

09-28-2021, 06:54 PM

Congratulations on the build and living the dream! I will be following this build. I am in half moon bay and in the middle of finishing a coupe, I built and sold a roadster about a year ago which had a coyote in it. If you ever want a ride in the coupe to see how loud it is let me know.

facultyofmusic

09-30-2021, 02:00 PM

It’s time to get started on the first 2 panels. The Cleco fasteners are a lifesaver. I’m so glad I got these. Decided to order 50 more of them in anticipation for the rest of these aluminum panels. Anyone wanna bet on how many Clecos I’ll be swimming in by the end of this project? :P
153955

Mounting the manual steering rack was more trouble than I anticipated. The driver side mounting bolt went through the bracket nice and smooth, but the passenger side was very obviously misaligned. Perhaps this was just a bad welding job? I’ve seen this on other build threads, so I guess it’s not just me.
153956153957

I used a level to check alignment of the mounting holes and expanded the mounting hole with a dremel. The bolt went in nicely on both ends and the steering rack was in. I hope what I did won’t cause any big issues down the line. The rack is very secure as fat as I can tell, but any calls of warning from the experienced folks would be great.
153958153959153960153961153962

I ended the day by finishing up the steering column. The manual said the splined end that goes into the steering rack is tight, so one might need to use a mallet to get it in. Mine was REALLY, REALLY tight. I had such a hard time getting it in that I was scared of never getting it out ever again, so I only hit it enough so it’s somewhat secure but not completely in. I have a feeling I’ll need to take it back out some day in the future when I align my steering wheel or something.
153963

I know the telescoping steering shaft is a common pain-point for these builds, but I underestimated just how much of a PITA it would be. GOD this thing is IMPOSSIBLE to get in or pull back out. I’m just gonna leave it be until I get to wheel alignment phase. I might need an air-hammer just to get it back out.

Dear past self:

Good job buying those Clecos
Even better job buying that dremel from a while ago!
The telescoping steering shaft is really freaking hard to pull back out once it’s in even just a LITTLE too far. Don’t push it in unless you have to.

facultyofmusic

10-01-2021, 01:21 PM

Given the parts I have with me, the next thing I can do is panel work; so paneling it is! I didn’t realize just how fast I’d go through a cobalt steel drill bit. This steel chassis is no joke! I ended up buying a bunch more in bulk. My current workflow is to use a drill bit until it no longer feels effective, and mark it for aluminum panels drilling use. The actual process of doing the panels is quite simple. Mark, Center Punch, Align, Drill, Install. The day flew by as the panels went on one by one to the sound of Bruce Springsteen’s concert recordings. Life’s good.
153999154000

I was pleasantly surprised with the wheels I ordered from LMR while working on the panels. They look beautiful… I think I lost an hour of sunlight just looking at it. What you see here is the Mustang SVE Bullitt Wheel & Tire Kit (17x9/10.5) in anthracite colour. While ordering them I had an idea how wide 10.5” is, but in person they somehow look even wider. Ugh I can’t stop smiling.
154001154002154003

Unfortunately I don’t have all the parts for the front or rear suspension so the wheels won’t be going on for a while. I think this is actually a good thing since there’s so many other things I can do on the car before the wheels go on. I’m sure routing the brake lines will be way easier with the suspension out of the way.

Another pleasant surprise showed on my phone: A missed call from Stewart Transport. I called back and they said they just picked up the engine from FFR and they’re on their way! I can’t wait! Although I must say my garage is getting really cramped. Where am I gonna put that thing when it gets here!?

Dear past self:

Buy more ⅛ drill bits.
Charge your power drill batteries.
Those Mustang Bullitt wheels you were looking at? Stop hesitating and just get them.

edwardb

10-01-2021, 05:31 PM

Nice progress. Just a hint. Better to use #30 drill bits than 1/8" for all your panels and riveting. #30 drill bit = 0.1285" which is just enough oversize to make assembly much easier. Same for the 3/16" rivets. Use a #10. The 0.193" is just enough oversize and again makes things easier. You want to get good cobalt bits. As long as you stay away from welds (typically instant breakage...) you should be able to do all the panels with a handful of bits. Also doesn't hurt to dip them in cutting oil as you're working. I've had good luck with the ones from Aircraft Spruce. Harbor Freight forget it. Big box stores bits not much better, and they typically don't have the numbered bits anyway.

egchewy79

10-01-2021, 06:48 PM

good stuff. I had the same issue with my steering rack mounts being a bit off as well. A BFH helped quite a bit with that job. For the steering column, sand the upper shaft down a bit to allow it to slide easier. As for clecos, I think I did my entire build with 50. you can only keep them in every third hole once you get the panel drilled. you can also pop a temp rivet in the corners until you're ready to attach them for good, drilling out the rivets to get the panel off. This will free up more clecos for other panels. A good corded drill helps with all the drilling as well.

JB in NOVA

10-05-2021, 10:43 PM

For the steering column, sand the upper shaft down a bit to allow it to slide easier. . Concur with that. I had to do quite of bit of sanding, finishing with Scotch Brite and lubricating with machine oil to get the upper shaft to seat properly. But it eventually did.

JohnK

10-06-2021, 08:13 AM

Nice work Dan! The Sharkhide looks great on the panels. All your learnings are making me smile - I had many of the same learnings as I went through my build. Yes, the steering rack is always a PITA to install, and yes the telescoping column needs a little deburring/smoothing/lubing/praying/coercing when installing.

Blitzboy54

10-06-2021, 09:28 AM

Looks great Danny

John Ibele

10-06-2021, 10:23 AM

Hey Danny, welcome to the fun.

You asked a question about side pipes. First, check your pipes and your kit order. Standard pipes are bare steel, and if stainless, you already paid $999 for an upgrade to those. I wouldn't pay for stainless pipes twice.

The stock bare steel FFR side pipes can work. Previous builders have noted a harsh exhaust note with the stock pipes. Also comments about getting harsher over time, as the packing degrades. If you use the bare steel pipes, you'll need to factor in cost to get them ceramic coated. Other vendor options have a deeper note and less harsh sound (although not always quieter), or in some cases are designed to be quieter. You'll find steel / ceramic coated and stainless options.

Your engine and specifically your cam selection and valve overlap can have a big influence on sound. You're doing a Coyote, hence a known quantity and other Coyote owners can comment. My cam and engine sound are a bit more of an unknown, so I'm planning on using the stock pipes that came with the kit for first start, then making a decision about whether I go with standard length Gas-N pipes, or the touring version. Just one way to approach it.

I definitely endorse doing a build thread. Everyone can contribute something by sharing their experience, and you get so many helpful suggestions if you share where you are in your build. Even the 'basic' items related to safety (like your comment on a respirator) are always worth repeating. Thanks for sharing!

facultyofmusic

10-09-2021, 08:22 PM

Better to use #30 drill bits than 1/8" for all your panels and riveting. #30 drill bit = 0.1285" which is just enough oversize to make assembly much easier. Same for the 3/16" rivets. Use a #10. The 0.193" is just enough oversize and again makes things easier. You want to get good cobalt bits. As long as you stay away from welds (typically instant breakage...) you should be able to do all the panels with a handful of bits. Also doesn't hurt to dip them in cutting oil as you're working. I've had good luck with the ones from Aircraft Spruce. Harbor Freight forget it. Big box stores bits not much better, and they typically don't have the numbered bits anyway.

Thank you for the advice Edward! I did find that I have to re-drill some of the holes because the rivets won't go in clean. I'll get some #10 bits and give it a try.

facultyofmusic

10-09-2021, 08:30 PM

You asked a question about side pipes. First, check your pipes and your kit order. Standard pipes are bare steel, and if stainless, you already paid $999 for an upgrade to those. I wouldn't pay for stainless pipes twice.

The stock bare steel FFR side pipes can work. Previous builders have noted a harsh exhaust note with the stock pipes. Also comments about getting harsher over time, as the packing degrades. If you use the bare steel pipes, you'll need to factor in cost to get them ceramic coated. Other vendor options have a deeper note and less harsh sound (although not always quieter), or in some cases are designed to be quieter. You'll find steel / ceramic coated and stainless options.

Your engine and specifically your cam selection and valve overlap can have a big influence on sound. You're doing a Coyote, hence a known quantity and other Coyote owners can comment. My cam and engine sound are a bit more of an unknown, so I'm planning on using the stock pipes that came with the kit for first start, then making a decision about whether I go with standard length Gas-N pipes, or the touring version. Just one way to approach it.

I have the bare steel pipes. My plan is to have them powder-coated to matte black, but it really depends on how good they sound. I don't want to spend beer money on coating them just to find out they blow out after a few drives. I've seem some other build threads mention cutting open the bend and putting in their own baffles to quiet the pipe down and improve the tone. If I plan to powder-coat them anyway I'll do the pipe surgery and powder-coat the cuts so it won't look so bad.

Ideally I'd like to find someone with the coyote + gas'n pipes so I can drop by and have a listen. It's funny though; sometimes I feel like the pickiest man in the world complaining about the exhaust note of my own COBRA ;)

JohnK

10-09-2021, 11:16 PM

Ideally I'd like to find someone with the coyote + gas'n pipes so I can drop by and have a listen.

Daniel, I have the Gas'N pipes on my Gen2 coyote that you heard last time you came over. I don't have the FFR pipes to compare to, but I'm happy with the sound of the Gas'N pipes (so far).

facultyofmusic

10-10-2021, 12:54 AM

Daniel, I have the Gas'N pipes on my Gen2 coyote that you heard last time you came over. I don't have the FFR pipes to compare to, but I'm happy with the sound of the Gas'N pipes (so far).

I was about to say! I forgot if you did but I did remember feeling it isn't as loud as I thought. Thanks for the reminder John! Gas'N pipes sound good!

facultyofmusic

10-10-2021, 12:59 AM

Woke up before the squirrels started running around on my roof (they make these little cute footstep noises). The FFR stewart transport truck parked outside and the coyote was finally here. Not many updates today, just that the coyote looks beautiful and once again I can’t stop starring at it.
154326154327

The engine is big though, and my garage space is very limited. Fortunately my fuel-tank and read-end/IRS parts are still back-ordered so that part of the car is nice and empty. The coyote + T56 magnum package slides right in!
154328

What surprised me was just how HEAVY this thing was! I previously thought that I could put it inside the house since it’s on a dolly with 4 rollers attached to it. Now I fear it may punch through a roller shaped hole in my floor. For those who were thinking of putting the engine inside the house until you need it: DEFINITELY think about the arrangement first.

A question popped up while I was looking at the attached labels. The engine and transmission had all its fluids drained, so I’ll need to purchase my own engine oil and transmission fluid. What about the rear diff that I received from ford? Is it also dry inside? I couldn’t find the same “WARNING: All fluid has been drained” tag on the rear diff. I suppose I could just open it and check…

edwardb

10-10-2021, 05:38 AM

Thank you for the advice Edward! I did find that I have to re-drill some of the holes because the rivets won't go in clean. I'll get some #10 bits and give it a try.

#10 is the oversized bit for a 3/16" hole. For 1/8" rivets (the most common and I think what you're describing) you want the #30 bits for slightly oversize. Will solve the re-drilling you're describing.

A question popped up while I was looking at the attached labels. The engine and transmission had all its fluids drained, so I’ll need to purchase my own engine oil and transmission fluid. What about the rear diff that I received from ford? Is it also dry inside? I couldn’t find the same “WARNING: All fluid has been drained” tag on the rear diff. I suppose I could just open it and check…

Most have reported the 2015+ IRS diff from Ford Performance has gear lube in it. But personally I wouldn't assume anything. Check it.

facultyofmusic

10-14-2021, 12:04 AM

Most have reported the 2015+ IRS diff from Ford Performance has gear lube in it. But personally I wouldn't assume anything. Check it.

I took a look a look at the diff and notices that it was sealed with a gasket sealant, which to me means they put the necessary liquids in and then sealed it properly.

facultyofmusic

10-14-2021, 12:13 AM

IRS, front spindles, brakes and hubs are all still nowhere to be seen so we’re skipping over that for now. Let’s jump into the pedals.

The willwood pedalbox assembly was actually really simple and straightforward; as expected from willwood. The pedals are super close together though. Without putting the pedals in I’m already a little worried about footbox spacing. Other build threads confirm my fear. Alas, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. The pedals can be shifted by an inch or so to each side so I hope that will be enough space. If not I’ll just ask santa for driving shoes for Christmas. :P :P :P

Having my vice clamp onto the pedalbox bracket made the whole process so much simpler. I’m sure it’s possible without it, but it just made the process much easier. I highly recommend it.

154491 154492

Brainfart section: Perhaps I’m just really really new at all this car building stuff, but I COMPLETELY forgot that I don’t need the clutch cable or the clutch quadrant for the coyote engine. D’oh! I spent a good 30mins trying to figure out where my clutch quadrant and cable was only to realize that they never came and probably just isn’t a part of my order. The engine+trans package I ordered already includes a hydraulic line that connects to a hydraulic throw-out bearing installed by FFR. All I need is a hydraulic line that runs from the clutch master cylinder to the transmission and we’re good.

Now here’s the hard part: Putting the pedalbox + bracket INTO the driver-side footbox. I didn’t take pictures for this part because I had such a hard time getting it in. I didn't stop until it was all the way in and seated onto the frame. Without pictures, here’s what i can say that helped:
1. Loosen the pedals a bit. Getting the bracket in isn’t the problem. Getting the pedals AROUND the top frame cross-member is the problem. If you loosen the pedals and the hydraulic pusher stems enough you can work around the cross-member much easier.
2. Do consider installing the clutch pedal AFTER putting the pedalbox in. I didn’t do this but if I had to do it again I’d probably remove the clutch pedal just so I have an easier time.

Regardless, now that it’s in I don’t even plan to take it out again. The mounting screws that come through the front-facing firewall and the bracket is a little tight, but a small ratchet wrench does the job just fine.

And now I’m tired! Time for dinner! Tomorrow I plan to start bending brake-lines and fuel-lines. I visited JohnK who lives just a short drive away. He was incredibly kind and allowed me to borrow his line benders, the eastwood flaring tool, as well as other related tools. I’m so excited to bend my own hard lines! Stay tuned!

154490 154493

JohnK

10-14-2021, 08:12 AM

Looking great Danny! Can't wait to see how the brake lines turned out.

JFYI- I believe that Ford Performance fills the IRS from the factory (and puts sealant on the fill plug) but some vendors have been know to drain the IRS before shipment to the customer. When I ordered mine From Forte's he advised me that he drains them because a few had leaked in transit and had been held up for weeks as hazardous material. My point being, the presence of sealant on the fill plug, in and of itself, is not an indicator that the IRS is currently filled. I'd take the plug off and stick a finger in there to confirm fluid level.

Railroad

10-14-2021, 08:38 AM

Concern for pedal spacing is justified. A tip that might help, the pedals do not have to be centered on the swing arms, as you have yours. Using the off set screw holes will provide max available spacing.

facultyofmusic

10-15-2021, 08:58 PM

JFYI- I believe that Ford Performance fills the IRS from the factory (and puts sealant on the fill plug) but some vendors have been know to drain the IRS before shipment to the customer. When I ordered mine From Forte's he advised me that he drains them because a few had leaked in transit and had been held up for weeks as hazardous material. My point being, the presence of sealant on the fill plug, in and of itself, is not an indicator that the IRS is currently filled. I'd take the plug off and stick a finger in there to confirm fluid level.

Thanks for the heads up John! I took off the fluid cap from one of the half-axle sockets and confirmed that its got the fluid inside.
154522

facultyofmusic

10-25-2021, 01:38 AM

You know how before you knew much about cars you’d think “gosh I’d be terrified of fixing my own brakes… What if I mess them up and get into an accident?” Well I’ve got news for myself. It’s brake line time.

Few weeks ago I visited JohnK (his build thread here https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(brake-bias-adjuster)) to check out his build. Drove to his place super excited (you know what they say about managing expectations when it comes to strangers…) and was blown away by his incredibly detailed and quality build. John was everything I hoped for in a fellow builder and more. Super friendly, super resourceful, and incredibly generous. Seeing the pictures on his build thread was one thing, but seeing it in person was a whole new experience. I was especially impressed by his stainless-steel brake-lines. I highly recommend checking out his build thread.

John lent me some tools for bending, cutting, flaring, and straightening out brake lines. He also sent me off with a coil of ni-cop brake-lines to practice with. These resources proved invaluable later on.

154754154753154752154751154755154756154757154758

facultyofmusic

10-25-2021, 01:40 AM

Ni-cop lines, compared to the lines supplied by FFR, are much softer. In fact they were bendable with just two fingers. These were excellent for mocking up the line route before going in with the real-deal. The instructions provided by FFR have a few extra loops here and some risky looking bends there; I decided to use it only as a guide and take my liberties when I see fit. The Rigid brake-line tool was a little tricky to use at first, but once you get used to swinging the handle around it’s quite easy to use. I made a mock-up line for master-cylinder to driver-side-front-brakes. Looked a little rough, but they did the job.
154761154762154763154764154765

Thanks to John’s line cutting and flaring tool I did not need any extra loops or unnecessary bends to take up slack. I had lots of fun cutting and flaring the lines. There’s something about purpose-build tools that serve one purpose and do an outstanding job at that one thing that just… makes me smile. These eastwood flaring tools are worth a pretty penny indeed.

facultyofmusic

10-25-2021, 01:56 AM

I then used the mock-up as a template to bend the real lines. This time much slower, much more careful. Not all was smooth sailing though. I cut and flared the lines without putting on the fittings… TWICE!! Luckily the line-cutter has a recess area that fits the flared portion of the brake line so you’d only trim off about 1/4inch per mistake. In one instance I made the perfect line bend only to realize the fittings were on the wrong side of the bend. That one mistake cost me a good hour as I straightened the line again just enough for the fitting the pass through without messing up the bend.

In the end the results were excellent. Here are some pictures:
154766154767154768154769154770154771

I’d say bending and routing my own hard brake line was both harder and easier than I expected. I spent much more time than I thought I would, but the results were much better than I expected. I thought flaring would be a pain, but that was the easiest part. I thought straightening a bent-line would be simple, but that was the hardest part. I don’t java any advice to my past self other than to go slow and think each step through. Overall a wonderfully educational experience.

By the way, the manual says to drill 3/16th holes for the FFR provided brake line brackets. If you didn’t buy 3/16th clecos, drill ⅛ homes for now so you can hold it in place with your 1/8 clecos. I drilled 3/16th holes on one side before realizing I had no way to hold it in place. Here’s a picture to illustrate what I mean. Note the clecos are copper coloured (meaning they are 1/8 clecos). The other side I had to buy a tiny c-clamp to hold it in place.
154772154773

I want to end this update with another big shout out to John. Without his generosity I would have bought the cheaper line-benders from amazon and messed up a bunch of perfectly good brake lines. It’s really fortunate to have such kind strangers on this forum. Thank you.

JohnK

10-25-2021, 04:49 PM

Hey Daniel, thanks so much for the kind words! I'm so glad that the tools worked out for you. Your lines turned out fantastic. That feeling of accomplishment when you finish something that seemed so daunting at first is wonderful, isn't it? Keep up the great work - your build is coming along great so far.

facultyofmusic

11-07-2021, 04:29 PM

Unpacked the dashboard from the long cardboard box it comes in. After reading the instructions my first reaction was a bit of awkwardness that I have to bend the side of the aluminum sheet to meet the chassis. Wonder if I should pre-bend it somehow, but I’ll leave that for later.

During my visit to JohnK’s garage I saw his Russ Thompson Turning Signal Stalk as well as the quick-release mated to the steering hub. It looked super slick so I purchased the setup for my build as well. I purchased the Russ Thompson turning signal stalk from the man himself who lives just an hour drive away. I purchased the NRG Innovations SRK-400BK Black Thin Quick Release.

The turning signal stalk requires enlarging the steering column hole in the dash. Quite easily done with a dremel with a cutting wheel.
155748 155749

Fitting the steering wheel hub onto the steering column proved a little difficult. The top of the steering shaft was flared out. The diameter of the shaft (or most of it anyway) is ~1.76mm, whereas the tip flared to ~1.81mm. Perhaps it was damaged somehow? Regardless, due to the increased width of the shaft it won’t fit into the hub.
155750 155751 155752

The quick release also has a stepped section that I need to fit into the hub of the Russ Thompson turning signal system. Currently the outer diameter of the quick release is bigger than the inner diameter of this hub. The inside diameter of the steering wheel hub is ~48.55mm, whereas the outside diameter of the stepped portion of the quick release is ~54.58mm. I’ll have to resolve this issue as well.
155753 155754 155755

facultyofmusic

11-07-2021, 04:33 PM

The answer to both of the above, as always, is having great friends! My buddy who lives just around the corner has a lathe in his garage, so I took the shaft, steering wheel hub, and the rest of the shebang to a guys' night in the garage. We trimmed the top of the shaft so the outer diameter is consistent throughout the whole shaft and spun the inside diameter of the steering-wheel hub to a size that would fit the quick release nice and snug. It turned out great!
155757 155756

Now that everything fits together, it’s time to mount the quick release onto the steering wheel hub using the provided bolts. I tapped 6 new holes into the steering wheel hub for the quick release. We first drilled into the hub with a drill bit one size smaller than the screw size, then slowly tapped the threads into the hole, enlarging it by a tiny bit in the process. Half turn forward, quarter turn backwards, back off if anything feels funny. For the first few holes near the end the aluminum would start to bind with the tap and I had to take the tap back out and scratch off the sticky aluminum with a scraper tool; suffice to say it got pretty tiring. For the rest of the holes I decided to go at a slower pace and use some motor oil; it turned out way cleaner!
155758 155759

Tadaaa! Russ Thompson turning signal stalk with a quick release! I’m quite pleased with the results. Note that I haven’t aligned the turning signal stalk hub with anything, but that’s okay because I still haven’t received my steering wheel. After I receive the wheel I will center my steering column, align it with the hub, and finally make new holes on the steering wheel center section to align with the hub.
155760 155761

facultyofmusic

11-08-2021, 01:44 AM

I’m also planning out my fuel system. Along with the hard brake lines I’ve finished bending and placing the hard fuel lines. I placed it along the main chassis tube under the passenger side of the car. The rest of the fuel system is yet to be complete.

I’ve received advice and ideas from John and EdwardB’s build thread and I’ve obtained the following components for my fuel system:

Hanger: Pro-M High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger for 1986 - 1997 Mustangs

-06AN send and return.
Purchased this fuel hanger for its lower fuel return tube. I believe I saw the discussion on EdwardB’s build thread, reinforced through JohnK’s advice when I visited him. It has the (arguable?) advantage of not aerating the returned fuel.

Pump: Walbro GSS340BX Electric In-Tank Fuel Pump

Fits in the Pro-M hanger.

Filter: Trick Flow Specialties TFS-23006 Canister Fuel Filter

⅜ NPT Female both in and out.

Send Line: FFR supplied 5/16th hard line (Edelmann 560PVF)

Barb fitting on both ends.
Barb fitting provided by FFR.

Return Line: FFR supplied ¼ hard line (Edelmann 420PVF)

Barb fitting on both ends.
Barb fitting provided by FFR.

Fuel Pressure Regulator: Breeze EFI Fuel Pressure Regulator Kit

-06AN in, return, and out (to coyote)
Configurable. Will set to 55psi for Gen 3 Coyote

The fuel loop is as follows:
Hanger -> Filter -> Send Line -> Pressure Regulator -> Return Line -> Hanger

Since the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel hanger are both -06AN already, I’ve decided to go with -06AN hose and fittings wherever I can. To make this happen, here are the components and the connections I’ll use:

Hanger to Filter: Buy a ⅜ NPT to -06AN adapter for filter input. Connect the hanger output to the filter using a -06AN hose with -06AN fittings on both ends.

Filter to Send Line: Buy a ⅜ NPT to -06AN adapter for filter output, Connect the filter a hose using -06AN fitting, then clamp the other end of the hose onto the barb fitting on the send line.

Send Line to Regulator: Clamp a hose to the send line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the regulator’s -06AN input.

Regulator to Return Line: Clamp a hose to the return line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the regulator’s -06AN return outlet.

Return Line to Hanger: Clamp a hose to the return line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the hanger’s -06AN return input.

With this setup, the remaining materials I’ll need to purchase are:

10ft -06AN hose
6x -06AN hose fittings
2x -06AN to ⅜ NPT adapters

I plan to place an order for these items on Summit Racing in the next few days. Meanwhile if anyone has any suggestions I’ve love to hear them and take them into consideration.

facultyofmusic

11-08-2021, 02:19 AM

... follow up question: Would it be worth it to use a compression fitting on the 5/16th and 1/4 hard lines to turn everything into -06AN? Are barbs secure enough? The coyote only requires 55Psi is fuel so it's really not that much. It feels like a waste sacrificing a perfectly good 5/16th flare, NPS, and NPS to barb adapter. It would mean purchasing 4 compression fittings and 4 more -06AN hose ends, but it will get rid of all barbs.

edwardb

11-08-2021, 05:19 AM

Two comments about your fuel system plan.

(1) The Gen 3 Coyote is 65 psi at the regulator. Not 55 psi. Right out of the Ford Performance Control Pack instructions. Agree it's slightly confusing because it says 65 psi at the regulator and on the same diagram says "55 psi at fuel rail with engine off." Which I don't know how to measure to be honest. For mine, I set the regulator at 65 psi as instructed. That's where it was when tuned and haven't touched it in 4,000 trouble free miles. Doesn't change your plan. But recommend you follow the Ford instructions.

(2) You'll get other opinions on this, but you've filled your plan with -06AN devices and fittings. Which is equivalent to 3/8". But then are using 5/16" supply and 1/4" return lines. Kind of a shame IMO. The setup will only be as good as the smallest lines. Maybe that's enough for the nearly 500 HP Gen 3 Coyote. But hasn't been my choice for my builds. I've done a full 3/8" setup (supply and return) for both Coyote builds. You've specified the Walbro GSS340BX pump, which is a full 255 lph pump. It might not like pushing the fuel through those smaller lines. One of the reasons I changed to 3/8" lines back in the day was some guys were having early pump failures using the stock lines. I don't know what brand regulator Mark at Breeze is selling. But the similar looking Aeromotive 13129 I've used on several builds (also -06AN) specifically says to use 3/8" lines. As you've found out with your planning, lots of parts and work (and $$$) to get this set up. You wouldn't want to do it over on a finished build. I'd recommend reconsidering the lines you're planning. Oversize (within reason) doesn't hurt anything. Undersize could. A fallback plan might be to dial down the pump to a 190 lph model. Not my personal choice though.

facultyofmusic

11-08-2021, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the insight Edward, I suppose you're right. I'm already upgrading from FFR provided parts with -06AN components, why not make the lines 3/8th as well? I just checked on Summit Racing and 3/8th hard lines aren't expensive at all. I'm totally down to redo my fuel lines with 3/8th send and return. For the line ends I'll use a compression fitting that goes straight into -06AN. Gonna add 2 lines and 4 compression fitting so my order.

Jessew

11-08-2021, 11:17 PM

facultyofmusic

11-09-2021, 02:27 AM

Why not just do everything in -6 AN and not worry about compression fittings…?

I'll have to put SOMETHING at the end of the hard line right? Or else it's just a bare tube.

Jessew

11-09-2021, 04:55 PM

I'll have to put SOMETHING at the end of the hard line right? Or else it's just a bare tube.

AN fittings are a 37 degree flare. Get the proper sized tube nuts (AN fittings) https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/an-tube-nuts and flare your hardlines.

Alternately, you could do hose ends,AN style as well, and run a steel braided Teflon hose or a rubber hose.

Both of these options are way less prone to leaks than a compression fitting or a barb fitting and a hose clamp. Also they will stand up to the pressures used by EFI where the barb fittings may be questionable.

But I just work on super sonic jets. So what do I know… ;)

JohnK

11-09-2021, 05:09 PM

Any of the suggestions mentioned work just fine, including the compression fittings. They all have their pros and cons. Flaring your own AN ends onto hard lines requires a separate set of dies from those used for the brake lines. Lots of folks have run braided lines the entire length, and that's OK too. Probably hundreds of folks, myself included, have used Let-Lok compression fittings (Breeze part number 21608 (https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/fitting-3-8-od-tube-to-06an-male-316-stainless-steel/) as one example) on 3/8" hard lines. They're foolproof, definitely easier than flaring your own lines, and can handle way more pressure than the 65 PSI that a gen3 coyote needs.

edwardb

11-09-2021, 05:43 PM

John beat me to it. The right compression fittings are just fine for these setups. I use the Let-Lok fittings as well. As I recall they're rated in the 1,000's psi. I think they'll hold up to our 50/60/70 psi. I have an Eastwood flaring tool and do all my own brake lines. No issues with doing the flares in the fuel lines too. But those fittings are just so easy to use and give you an instant AN connection with no other adapters. Not building super sonic jets here. :o

facultyofmusic

11-09-2021, 08:49 PM

Thanks for the discussion guys! I think I'll use those Let-Lok compression fittings on 3/8 tubes.

facultyofmusic

11-09-2021, 11:05 PM

While waiting on the fuel line components, let's work on the radiator! I purchased the breeze radiator shroud as seen from other build threads. I've also purchased rivnuts as well as a rivnut settler to make installation and future maintenance easier. These rivnuts are pretty slick!
155858 155857 155856 155859

And here it is with the fan attached.
155860 155861

To protect the other side of the radiator (dang those little radiator fins are easy to bend!) I've cut a piece of cardboard the size of the radiator opening and stuck it on with tape. Should do the job.
155862

The instructions from FFR manual makes me... worried? The radiator is made from thin aluminum; a soft material. There are also no bottom supports. I found this thread that talks about the breeze radiator mount accessories (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34661-breeze-radiator-accessories) as well as this thread that talks about radiator mount point failure due to fatigue (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?20089-Radiator-failure-stress-fatigue-at-3-500-miles). ...so I'll definitely add extra support for the radiator.

I have a long strip of inch-wide steel strip that I can use to reinforce the top of the radiator before attaching it to the upper attachment point, but the bottom of the radiator is still very much unsupported. Before I go weld a steel tube at the bottom of the front chassis to support the radiator, I want to ask: Is there a reason for ever adjusting the radiator mounting angle? I'd imagine after you install it you'll just leave it in place?

JohnK

11-10-2021, 01:02 AM

There's no real reason to have to adjust the radiator mounting angle once it's set, but what angle you set it to depends on whether you plan to use the FFR-supplied radiator surround sheetmetal or the Mike Everson (Replicaparts) radiator surround. The former requires a 51* radiator angle (I think - don't quote me on this) while the latter requires a 58* degree angle. The hinged Breeze upper mount allows you to set the radiator at whatever angle you want/need. Also, FWIW the Breeze lower radiator mount provides a nice solid bottom support. I have both on my build if you want to come check them out.

facultyofmusic

11-10-2021, 11:17 PM

The former requires a 51* radiator angle (I think - don't quote me on this) while the latter requires a 58* degree angle.

Thanks for pointing this out John, I completely overlooked the mounting angle requirement. Yes I'd love to stop by to take a look. See you real soon :P

facultyofmusic

11-10-2021, 11:20 PM

... post slot reserved for radiator mount updates

facultyofmusic

11-10-2021, 11:31 PM

The "insulated clips" from FFR are backordered, so I purchased some clips to clip on my brake and fuel lines. The fuel lines will need to be redone with 3/8 hard lines, but hey they still look good. :P

155949 155950 155951

facultyofmusic

11-11-2021, 12:13 AM

Here are some updates on the chassis aluminum!
155952 155953 155954 155955 155956 155957 155958 155959

Here I'm using Second Skin sound dampening material. Before this purchased foam based dampening material but they didn't work well at all; compared to Second Skin they simply don't do the job. With Second Skin the sound difference is night and day; I highly recommend it.

You may also notice that the panels don't look "sharkhide" coated. This is because I've decided to not coat the panels that I'll eventually put dampening material or heat insulation material on. Didn't see a point in doing so.

Near the end as I ran out of Second Skin I started using smaller and smaller pieces. I thought that smaller pieces will also provide "some" dampening and I'd be fine with it, but I don't like the end result at all. I purchased another pack of the material and will be filling in the gaps I left. To anyone else thinking of conserving their sound dampening material: It's not worth it. Just cover the panels!

Another word of caution on these gel sound dampeners: They are REALLY STICKY and REALLY HARD TO REMOVE ONCE APPLIED! Definitely plan out all the mods before slapping on the sheets cuz peeling them off is next to impossible. As I type this I'm trying to figure out how I can cleanly cut out a hole in the panel behind the seats for a rear storage cubby. The sticky material isn't gonna make this easy...

facultyofmusic

11-12-2021, 09:10 PM

"Oh boy..." I said to myself after unpacking the Ron Francis wiring harness and layout out all the cables on the carpet of my living room floor. One thing I wasn't sure when handling the wiring harness was how much manhandling the harness could take. I tried my best stuffing the wires down near the fuse box as I tried inserting the fuse box itself through the narrow opening around the steering shaft and supporting cross members. Luckily that was the hardest part and everything else was pretty easy in comparison. The harness had a branch for truck builds. I didn't need it so I cut that part off. I'll wrap each individual end with some electrical tape to prevent any accidental connections. Similar to other builds, I've added a cut and bent strip of aluminum to provide some extra support to the fusebox.

156274 156275 156276

The rest of the harness is currently resting along the firewall. I'll clean those up as I'm more certain about what I'll do with the dashboard itself.
156277 156278

facultyofmusic

11-18-2021, 06:06 PM

... back to EFI for a bit:

I opened up the big white "Ford Performance" box that came with my FFR coyote engine+trans package. My plan was to lay things out to cross-check the parks inside the box with the coyote install instructions. To my surprise, the box included a EFI kit! The kit includes, along with a new fuel pump and hanger, a set of EFI pressure regulator, pressure gauge, and hoses. The hoses were terminated with Bundy fittings on one end and NPS o-ring on the other end that goes into the pressure regulator. Here's a picture of the hoses and pressure regulator:
156566
(Note that the components didn't come in the box like this. I took the components out of their protective boxes and took this picture)

The information that was missing during my planning phase was that FFR provides a separate EFI install manual which I've linked here (https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/EFI-fuel-system-1.pdf). The FFR setup makes use of the provided fuel filter and routes the fuel lines through the transmission tunnel along the rear chassis harness. The components are connected via bundy fittings and no hard-lines are involved nor required.

So now I need to make a decision. Do I keep going with my EFI routing plans detailed in Post #44 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=473781&viewfull=1#post473781)? Do I go with the FFR setup and return the components I've purchased so far? Do I do something in-between? I'm no expert in this area, so I'd love some input here. Are the flexible hoses inferior enough when compared to hard-lines to warrant a custom setup? Has anyone experienced issues with the fuel pump / hanger provided by FFR, aside from the fuel aeration issue? I'm seriously considering the FFR setup because I've spent about $500 in components for my own EFI setup (Breeze regulator, Trickflow filter, Pro-M hanger, walbro pump, lines, hose fittings, etc) and that chunk of change can be allocated to improving another aspect of the car.

I'm thinking, if FFR provided this kit, they must have tested it and seen that it's works and is reliable, right? Is that a safe assumption to make?

facultyofmusic

11-21-2021, 02:26 PM

After looking up related threads and spoke in person with JohnK again, I've decided that putting a flexible fuel line through the transmission tunnel isn't the greatest idea. I'll be going with the 3/8th hardline setup I've previously planned. If I haven't used the lines and fittings by the end of my build I'll pass it forward to a fellow builder who needs it on their FFR build. Pass it forward!

facultyofmusic

11-24-2021, 02:30 AM

The front spindles and hubs finally arrived! The hub goes onto the spacer with an extremely precise fit; not "tight", but "precise". When inserting the spindle into the hub, make sure to insert it exactly straight and centered. If done correctly the spindle should slide right in. If not it will feel impossible to push through. I made the mistake of inserting it at a slightly off-set angle and had the time of my life getting that sucker back out.
157545 157546 157547

When attaching the spindles to the upper and lower control arms I made two mistakes. The first was having no idea what "spacer" the manual was referring to for installing the lower castle nut. Turns out this particular spacer isn't a cut steel tube like the other spacers, but rather a thicker countersunk washer shaped spacer. I looked through my inventory trying to find the spacer before asking the forum what it was. Here it is:
157548

The second was attaching the spindles to the incorrect sides of the car. I even read about this before from other build threads but somehow forgot about it when working on my own. For the roadster, the "right" spindle marked with an "R" goes on the LEFT and the "left" spindle marked with an "L" goes on the RIGHT. One way to tell if you have it installed correctly is by seeing of the arm of of the spindle points forwards or backwards. If it points forwards then you got it reversed. Here's an example: The first picture shows the wrong configuration; the second picture shows the correct configuration.
157549 157550

Next we get to the brakes. I opted for the Wilwood big brake kit. The instructions were simple and easy to follow. Nothing really stood out to me during the installation process. I've yet to seal the brake-line fitting with pipe-thread tape. I'll need to remember to do that. Either that or I'll find out when it starts leaking when I test my brakes. Here's what it looks like:
157551 157552 157553

Each brake caliper uses 2 pins to hold the brake pads in place. I thought removing the pads would simply be a matter of removing the pin, but when I tried it the pads couldn't actually slide out from the opening at the top of the caliper. Do I understand this correctly? In order to change my pads I have to remove the brake caliper from the spindle?

Now the only things missing from my front suspension setup are the tie rods and coil-over springs. I emailed factory five about the springs and apparently they never knew it was backordered for me. I'm glad I reached out to them, or else I wouldn't get the springs until much later!

facultyofmusic

11-24-2021, 02:42 AM

Something I forgot to mention in the last post: When I installed the spindles onto the UCA and LCAs, the balljoint boots became twisted and sheared out of shape. The top boot actually fell off entirely. This makes me worried. The bottom balljoint boot has a locking ring to keep the boot attached, but the top one doesn't. I remember seeing in some thread that people opt for another ball-joint boot that doesn't wear-out as quick. I'll have to go dig that one out and see if I'll do the same.
157554 157555 157556

edwardb

11-24-2021, 07:22 AM

Many of us replace the upper ball joint boot with Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boot for Chrysler. Comes as a set of four and you only use two. But not expensive. Don't panic about how they fit. They seat properly when the suspension is at ride height. At full droop (like now) won't look like it. Couple of suggestions: (1) The front hub is way easier to install once the spindle is mounted and stable. No hurry since you can't torque the axle nut until the spindle is bolted down. (2) Be careful not to twist the lower ball joint boot. Looks like the ball joint stud turned some while you tightened it? That's going to make it more likely to tear in the future IMO. (3) You'll get other opinions on this, but highly suggest leaving the Teflon tape in the tool box for your home plumbing projects. Use thread sealant on that brake line fitting. Plus others where sealant is required.

Pretty sure you're right on those front Wilwood calipers. They have to be removed to swap the pads. Kind of a lot of variation from what I've seen with Wilwood calipers. Multiple ways the pads are held in and how they're installed. I wouldn't panic about it. I've used those exact calipers on multiple builds and have yet to change pads once they were installed. Obviously depends on how much you drive, how hard you drive, etc. But the stock pads last quite well. My Coupe just finished its second driving season and I checked the pads just a couple days ago. Still plenty of thickness remaining.

Railroad

11-24-2021, 08:35 AM

If your front calipers are the Wilwood 6 piston models, there is a good chance you will not be pleased with street stopping performance. Now is the perfect time to swap out the front pads. I tried to like the Wilwood pads, but just felt it took to much leg to get the braking feel I expected.
I replaced the pads with Hawk brand and got a nice improvement. I have noticed there is no distraction of pedal effort as before. I think I am seeing some brake dust, but may be a result of the bedding process.
If you will google, I am sure you will find my post, which list the part numbers for the swap. I got some good advise, during the post and speaking with Hawk personnel.
If you drive hard and or race, you should be good as you are.
I had no issues with the brake assembly, mounting or bleeding, just the pad coefficient of friction.

facultyofmusic

11-24-2021, 04:55 PM

Many of us replace the upper ball joint boot with Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boot for Chrysler. Comes as a set of four and you only use two. But not expensive. Don't panic about how they fit. They seat properly when the suspension is at ride height. At full droop (like now) won't look like it. Couple of suggestions: (1) The front hub is way easier to install once the spindle is mounted and stable. No hurry since you can't torque the axle nut until the spindle is bolted down. (2) Be careful not to twist the lower ball joint boot. Looks like the ball joint stud turned some while you tightened it? That's going to make it more likely to tear in the future IMO. (3) You'll get other opinions on this, but highly suggest leaving the Teflon tape in the tool box for your home plumbing projects. Use thread sealant on that brake line fitting. Plus others where sealant is required.

Thank you for the tips Edward. I'll make an order for those Chrysler balljoint boots. I believe I have some thread-sealant that came with the breeze fuel pressure regulator so I'll use that too instead of teflon tape.

I have a question about the twisting of the balljoint boot. The top of the bottom boot directly contacts the spindle, that means it will be twisted during regular driving anyways right? E.g. when I make a left turn both upper and lower boots will twist with the spindle? Do you mean to make sure the boot is in neutral state when the spindles are pointing forward?

facultyofmusic

11-24-2021, 05:04 PM

If your front calipers are the Wilwood 6 piston models, there is a good chance you will not be pleased with street stopping performance. Now is the perfect time to swap out the front pads. I tried to like the Wilwood pads, but just felt it took to much leg to get the braking feel I expected.

Hey Railroad, I too have a similar concern at the back of my head. A few months ago I drove a friend's kit car with no power-brakes and relatively small brake pads; getting that car to stop from a high speed was a little nerve-wracking. I don't think I'll ever put power-brakes on my FFR roadster, but if I can improve street-driving brake performance by switching out brake pads I'd definitely go for it. I do have some questions about this too (ideas that I wanted to research more into, but didn't have time to do it yet): brake feel and progression. If I get a super bite-y pad, will I be severely sacrificing progression? E.g. with the wilwood pads I'll have more control over how much brake force I want. I wouldn't want pads that are 0 brake and then suddenly 100% brakes to the point where I lock up easily.

edwardb

11-24-2021, 06:22 PM

Do you mean to make sure the boot is in neutral state when the spindles are pointing forward?

If you can, yes. Paul B (EdwardB)

Regarding brakes, I've used the Wilwood big brake kit on a Roadster and now my Coupe. That's with the 6-piston front and 4-piston front. Not the solid axle version that has only the single piston rear. I've been happy with the amount of braking I have after they were properly bedded. No question they require a heavier pedal than power. But the amount of braking I have is very strong. Just during my last drive of the season a week or two ago I approached an intersection and the light changed to yellow when I was at a pretty good speed and was relatively close. But since the intersection was quite wide (2 lanes plus turn lanes each way) I chose to hit the brakes hard and stop rather than venture through. My one bad accident in my life many years ago was being T-boned in the middle of an intersection by someone what was timing the lights. It pulled down really strong and had no issues stopping in time. I was mostly worried about the car behind me. I was watching... My suggestion is try to the stock brakes. Bed them per the instructions. And if you still don't like them, switch to a more aggressive pad. Easy enough to do.

facultyofmusic

11-24-2021, 07:51 PM

My suggestion is try to the stock brakes. Bed them per the instructions. And if you still don't like them, switch to a more aggressive pad. Easy enough to do.

Apologies for the incorrect name Paul. ...and yes that's the plan for now. I have the pads, so might as well try them out. What I meant was I definitely won't hesitate to switch pads if needed. How long did it take for your wilwood pads to break-in?

edwardb

11-25-2021, 12:18 AM

Apologies for the incorrect name Paul. ...and yes that's the plan for now. I have the pads, so might as well try them out. What I meant was I definitely won't hesitate to switch pads if needed. How long did it take for your wilwood pads to break-in?

No apologies needed. Edward is my middle name. Been using as a screen name for a lot of years in a lot of places. I felt an immediate improvement after the bedding in process. With continued driving that got a little better. I'd say somewhere in the 500-1000 miles range as a wild guess. Biggest message (and I caution people all the time about it) don't let your first impression be your sole judge. Especially if it's the (hopefully) low speed and low stress go-kart drive. Save the judgment until after it's done and properly broken in, bias adjusted as needed, etc. Some like me will find it acceptable. Others, like Railroad, won't and that's totally reasonable. Wilwood also has other grades if you don't want to be quite as aggressive as the Hawk pads. Lots of options.

Railroad

11-25-2021, 09:41 AM

The Wilwood pads would lock up all 4 with enough pressure. My dislike was only the amount of pressure I had to use to bring the car down to slow or stop. I might have missed something in shopping for Wilwood replacement pads, but 6 piston caliper pads seem to be track oriented only.
After bedding, I still found the leg effort too high for me.
If your impressions are like mine, be advised you will need to remove brake pad material from the rotor, prior to bedding the new pads.
The Hawk pads are not an extreme change to light effort stopping. Hawk as Wilwood seems to develop their 6 piston pad for aggressive use. The Hawk pad was just an improvement for me.
When and if you change pads, do not forget to correctly replace caliper spacers for centering the caliper over the rotor.

EBC at one time made a replacement pad, but seems to have ceased production and I could not find any in inventory.

facultyofmusic

11-25-2021, 07:39 PM

facultyofmusic

11-26-2021, 02:19 AM

My IRS components emerged from backorder limbo and now’s the time to get started on the rear end! This one took quite some time with several caveats here and there, most of them avoidable given prior experience. After reading other build threads’ IRS install section, I had a pretty good idea on what to do. Make a threaded rod spreader. Grease up the pivot sleeves. Use ratcheting straps. Etc.

I under-estimated just how hard it was to chase the two holes on the differential mounting arms. I chased the holes in the aluminum control arms with ease, but the steel differential housing is a completely different story. I did not have a drill press big enough to hold the diff, so that’s a no go. My power drills were all too slow (according to my friend who helped me out). The hole that needs to be chased has a slit that catches the drill bit extremely easily and every time it happens it twists my arm in a painful circle. That wasn’t fun.

What ended up working was to incrementally chase the hole using smaller to bigger drill bits. I also used a stepped drill bit to drill out a guide for the longer drill bit to sit. Final piece of the puzzle was to use cutting fluid. I tried WD40 and that didn’t actually help much. My friend’s cutting fluid made a world of difference.
157652 157653

Next was the diff. I followed the “ratcheting tie-down straps” approach where I slowly maneuvered the diff into place. Slow and steady and 2 mistakes:

The first is not checking the strength rating of the straps. The straps I bought from home depot turned out to be pretty weak and one strap actually broke half way through. I had to switch it out with another one to avoid potential injury. I should have bought heavy duty straps instead.

The second mistake was installing my IRS lower control arms before installing the diff. I asked a buddy to come help with the diff install. While waiting for him to arrive I got impatient and decided to install the driver side LCA. Boy did that sucker get in the way when installing the diff! The tie-down straps got caught on the arms a few times. The LCA also took up valuable space when there already wasn’t much space underneath the rear of the car. If I could do it again I would wait for the diff to be installed before installing the rear suspension components.

Unfortunately I don’t have pictures for the install. Was too busy installing and forgot to take progress pictures.

The rest of the IRS components went in without too much sweat. The key here was to spread each mounting point on the frame before installing the arms. You’ll need to torque the mounting points back down anyway, so spreading it apart won’t change how it sits in the end. The CV axles went into the diff with a few smacks from a dead-blow hammer, no biggie.
157654 157655 157656 157657 157658

Last thing to note here is that while I torqued the control arm to frame mounting bolts to spec, I did not apply Loctite. This is because I plan to install sway bars later on during the build, and the sway bars make use of the control arm mounting bolts. Once I receive the sway bar mounts and install them, I can torque it down again with Loctite.
157659 157660

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

edwardb

11-26-2021, 04:36 AM

On a related note, I noticed that the rotors had black powder-coat like coating on the part that contacts the brake pads. I assume they will be rubbed off during normal usage. Should I sand them off beforehand? Will it help the bed-in process at all?

No, don't do anything to them. Certainly don't sand them. That coating will wear off very early in their use. Probably will be gone by the time you're doing the bedding process. If not, it will be afterwards. There's nothing you need to do to get ready for the bedding process. Just when you're ready and the car is properly sorted out. If you read the sequence, it's a pretty good workout and you want the car working well. Not just the brakes.

Good work on getting the IRS in. That's a big step. Just a comment. Blue Loctite on the hardware doesn't hurt anything. Unless it's the nylon locking type. Never use Loctite on those. But IMO isn't necessary. As I recall, many of the nuts are distorted thread locking type. Plus they all have relatively high torque values which I assume you're setting. They don't need Loctite to stay in place. The only exception is I believe the instructions say to use red Loctite and witness mark the upper control arm adjuster nut after you set the alignment.

facultyofmusic

12-06-2021, 02:00 AM

Unless it's the nylon locking type. Never use Loctite on those. But IMO isn't necessary. As I recall, many of the nuts are distorted thread locking type. Plus they all have relatively high torque values which I assume you're setting. They don't need Loctite to stay in place.

Haha, I guess I'll just want to wait until when I need to unbolt the components to see how tough it will be :P Already out loctite on all the nuts, wish I saw your comment earlier. I did try to undo a bolt with my big wrench and it came apart easier than I expected.

facultyofmusic

12-06-2021, 02:49 AM

One thought constantly at the back of my head is how little space I have in my garage. With effectively what is a one-car-garage with a big shed in the backyard, the space is very limited. Currently to fit everything in I stick the engine under the rear-frame where the fuel tank's supposed to be. I did this by raising the chassis high off the ground so the space under the rear will be enough for the engine to slide in. This is not ideal.

2 months ago I created this (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41154-Earliest-recommendable-time-to-install-the-Coyote-trans&p=471715#post471715) post asking about recommended steps to finish before putting in the engine. For the past few weeks I've been prioritizing items on that list; fuel lines, chassis harness, footbox aluminum... and the latest update: Coyote Harness.

Since Paul (@edwardb)'s build thread, FFR has released a gen3 coyote install manual. Reading through the manual however, I found a few items I wasn't very satisfied with. First was routing the send/return fuel lines through the transmission tunnel using soft fuel lines; a big no-no for me. Second of mounting the fusebox on top of the passenger foot box aluminum, cramming the engine harness tightly into the corner and making it rather awkward to install a master cut-off switch. I've decided to go with the layout used by both @edwardb and @JohnK. It just makes more sense to me.

One of the many neat add-ons I copied from other build threads is the center-console cut-off switch. @edwardb's fusebox / harness routing makes this easy to route. The advantage here is the switch cuts off everything except the memory power to the ECU. I threaded the switch through a small hole in the firewall. It doesn't look very good right now but I'm sure I'll figure something out once I get started on carpeting the cockpit.

158313 158314

Next was the ECU holder; but before we jump into that, there's another issue I'd like to address: I didn't order the FFR Coyote Install Kit.

While I was reading the FFR provided Gen3 Coyote Install Manual I noticed many components I didn't remember ever seeing in my inventory of parts. In the beginning I thought I had to make the ECU bracket and such, but as I read on I came across components that I just didn't have. Some of these components I could buy from shops such as summit racing (air filter, etc), but others I'd have a hard time obtaining (90 degree bent intake tube, engine mount spacers, etc). Turns out I didn't have the "Coyote Install Kit (FFR Part# 16863)". This kit is not included with the complete kit nor was it included with the Gen3 Coyote Engine + Trans package. After realizing this I researched about this kit, and found this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26492-FFR-quot-Installation-Kit-quot-for-Coyote&p=302433&viewfull=1#post302433) where @edwardb recommended getting it. I'm currently in the process of placing an order with FFR for this "Coyote Install Kit".

Without the "Coyote Install Kit", I had to fab some components. I didn't mind of course! It was actually quite fun! I had some spare aluminum sheets left over from unused chassis aluminum, so I made a ECU mount. Turned out pretty good!

158315 158316 158317 158318

I made a bracket for the mega-fuse out of a 1" steel strip I had lying around:

158319 158320 158321 158322

facultyofmusic

12-06-2021, 03:15 AM

... and the rest will look really familiar to those who've been following @edwardb and/or @JohnK's build threads:

158324 158323

Here you can see that I've grossly over-estimated the length of the required wire. I think I'll redo one of the ends just to make it shorter and more pleasing to the eye. Unlike what @edwardb and/or @JohnK did, though, I decided to route the starter wires through the separate harness branch off of the coyote harness. The ECU is quite close to the starter, and the wire is more than long enough to reach comfortably with some room for routing. At the bottom left of the first picture you can see the Breeze Battery Relocator. It's an excellent addition to the build. High quality, great craftsmanship, would recommend!

With the engine harness routed I am ever closer to reaching the point where I can drop in the engine. As explained in an earlier post, I've opted to switch out my FFR provided fuel lines with stainless steel 3/8th lines with -06AN fittings on all interfaces for easy of service. My brake-line parts are on its way from Summit Racing and I should be able to finish that by next week. I've once again borrowed JohnK's line tools so I'm all prep'ed and ready! I've also not completed my driver-side footbox yet. The "Coyote Install Kit" won't come for a while, but seeing other build threads I probably won't want to use the FFR provided pedal mount anyway. I've yet to take enough notes on pedal mounting to make an informed decision on this matter. Regardless, it does not look too difficult.

Other decisions keeping me up at night are:

Should I finish all chassis / dash wiring before dropping in the engine?

Should I spray paint the engine compartment facing chassis aluminum? I really want to, but I also lack the equipment to do so properly... (whatever proper means. I've historically been pretty bad a paint work.)

Should I go with FFR's provided e-brake kit, or should I go with an aftermarket option line E-STOPP electronic parking brake as seen on @JohnK's build? If I do go with FFR e-brake, I'll need to do that before dropping in the engine as well.

If y'all have any suggestions / points of discussion on any of these, please do chime in!

My original goal was to have the engine dropped in before Christmas and have engine first-start on New Year's Day. To be frank I don't think I'll make those deadlines. I'm not worried. I'd rather take my time to enjoy this building process, instead of rushing through haphazardly. I AM itching to hear the engine crank for the first time though! Sometimes I find myself at the middle of the night browsing through people's first start and go-kart videos on youtube. We'll get there soon!

facultyofmusic

12-08-2021, 08:39 PM

Out with the Ni-Cop and In with the Stainless Steel! As previously discussed, I've switched over to 3/8th stainless steel fuel lines. It was a lot easier than imagined because I already had previous lines to use as a template. The new lines have an added bonus of being one-piece, so no unions / extra fittings! Less points of failure.
158428 158429 158430 158431 158432 158433

I used 3/8th to -06AN compression fittings by Summit Racing to terminate the tubes:
158434 158435

facultyofmusic

12-08-2021, 08:43 PM

Railroad

12-09-2021, 09:02 AM

edwardb

12-09-2021, 09:33 AM

Connected the engine side fuel line terminals with the fuel pressure regulator:
158438 158439

I've not connected the lines at the rear of the car yet because I haven't decided on a place for the fuel filter. Due to the limited space I have in my garage, I also can't install the fuel tank without finding another spot to put my engine. With that said, can I test fuel pressure without installing the pump/hanger into the fuel tank? E.g. can I put it in a bucket of water and pump that instead?

I wouldn't run water through your lines and pump. You can very briefly hit your pump with +12V to confirm it runs. It's not supposed to run dry, but you can confirm it's alive. Just make sure it's complete and properly assembled before dropping into the tank. That means (1) proper electrical connections between the pump and terminals, (2) the little S-shaped hose properly installed and clamped (a common failure), and (3) the filter sock installed on the bottom. Once it's in there, really don't want to be taking it in and out. You'll believe when you do it. If you want, check the lines with a kit like this one: 900666 Fragola Performance Systems Hose Test Kit. With a pump that's alive and lines that are checked, you shouldn't have have any problems including with the regulator. After you put gas in the tank and pressurize the system and set the regulator before first start, just check everything for leaks before proceeding. Probably there won't be any. Most common is forgetting to tighten something all the way. Not that I would know about that... Nice job on the SS lines BTW.

facultyofmusic

12-13-2021, 02:55 PM

Just a suggestion on the fuel filter, I put mine behind the passenger rear tire. I do have to pull the tire to access, but no getting under the car. Clamps and connections are accessible at this location. If I can find a pic, I will post later. Nice build.

Right! I'm using this picture from JohnK's build (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(glove-box-finished)&p=426229&viewfull=1#post426229) as a reference. It makes the most sense for hose-routing. I tried to find another place to put it but they all either don't have enough space or require some awkward hose bends.

facultyofmusic

12-13-2021, 03:10 PM

I wouldn't run water through your lines and pump. You can very briefly hit your pump with +12V to confirm it runs. It's not supposed to run dry, but you can confirm it's alive. Just make sure it's complete and properly assembled before dropping into the tank. That means (1) proper electrical connections between the pump and terminals, (2) the little S-shaped hose properly installed and clamped (a common failure), and (3) the filter sock installed on the bottom. Once it's in there, really don't want to be taking it in and out. You'll believe when you do it. If you want, check the lines with a kit like this one: 900666 Fragola Performance Systems Hose Test Kit. With a pump that's alive and lines that are checked, you shouldn't have have any problems including with the regulator. After you put gas in the tank and pressurize the system and set the regulator before first start, just check everything for leaks before proceeding. Probably there won't be any. Most common is forgetting to tighten something all the way. Not that I would know about that... Nice job on the SS lines BTW.

Thanks Paul, I'll do a simple test once I have the fuel tank in-place then. I actually just received my Wilwood rear brake kit, I thought they were backordered until January but they came early. With the rear brakes installed, I can not longer put the engine under the rear of the car, so I'll have space to install the fuel tank after-all.

What I'm actually considering now is to put the engine in for now and take it back out again later when I need to work on the engine bay / trans tunnel. Not only will it give me much more space to work in my garage, it will also allow me to thoroughly inspect just how much space I have left in the trans tunnel for my e-brake. I've read from several threads that installing the engine is a big task, but not so bad that you'd never want to do it ever again. Any suggestions / advice on this? I know that on your anniversary roadster you had the engine in during the beginning of the build and later took it back out again, but you didn't have the transmission on the first time so I suppose it's easier.

John Ibele

12-15-2021, 11:14 PM

If you really need the space and don't have other options, I think this could work just fine, particularly if you have a hoist readily available to borrow or if you have space for a knock-down hoist in your build area. If you haven't done this before make sure you know how to keep yourself and any assistants safe and free from injury. I always think through what would happen if the chain simply disappeared and go from there. Never, ever get digits in between the suspended object and stationary objects on the ground, etc. You'll want a 2 ton hoist, with the chain on the furthest outboard location; you'll need the reach. You'll want a leveler bar. Go slow and easy.

As for time required ... you'll work slow and easy the first time, and it may take a few hours. When you've done it once, it's going to go faster the second time. My son and I pulled my engine shortly after install, did some teardown and reassembly, took 45 minutes for dinner, and dropped the engine back in ... all in 3 hours. This wasn't due to skill or trying to move fast; rather, the engine wasn't plumbed or wired and the process was familiar to us.

It does pay to have a helper, to keep the engine off the parts you don't want to get scratched or dented. The advantage for you is that you'll get to see the engine in the bay, take some notes about where wires will and won't fit, plan your ground and power wiring from the battery to engine, frame, main disconnect switch and so on.

facultyofmusic

12-16-2021, 01:27 AM

facultyofmusic

12-16-2021, 02:13 AM

Installed the rear brakes today. The wilwood rear brake + parking brake kit was super simple to install. The caliper bracket and the caliper itself is spaced using shims. The instructions say to use one shim and adjust from there. On my install I ended up using none of the shims to get it centered.

158693 158694 158695 158696 158697

After installing the parking brake, I noticed that the cable ball end socket of the parking brake is VERY close to the coil over spring. When I initially completed the parking brake I had to extend the upper control arms to avoid contact. I'm guessing it will get better once the spindles are loaded?

158698

edwardb

12-16-2021, 06:05 AM

After installing the parking brake, I noticed that the cable ball end socket of the parking brake is VERY close to the coil over spring. When I initially completed the parking brake I had to extend the upper control arms to avoid contact. I'm guessing it will get better once the spindles are loaded?

158698

As best I can see, assembled properly with the proper orientations. I suspect your alignment (or lack of...) is the main contributor here. As long as it's not hitting, you could leave it as is. If you want, you could unload the springs, jack up the suspension to where the LCA is approximately level (ride height), and do a sanity check on the rear alignment. You could very roughly check toe and camber with straight edges, a level, and a measuring tape. Assuming you don't have any alignment equipment. Likely one or both are off enough to make it so close. FWIW, others have reported it being close but a bunch of these have been built with no issues. I don't remember any problems with my IRS Roadster. The Coupe has a more angled in connector of the upper coilover mount, so clears by a bunch.

facultyofmusic

12-17-2021, 03:26 AM

Assuming you don't have any alignment equipment. Likely one or both are off enough to make it so close. FWIW, others have reported it being close but a bunch of these have been built with no issues. I don't remember any problems with my IRS Roadster.

This is great to hear! Yes, I tried to check my camber with weight on a string and confirmed that my wheels had a lot of camber. Seems like extending the upper control arms were the right way to go. I don't own alignment tools and don't plan to work on alignment until the engine is in, but will definitely do a rough alignment before my first go-kart. A part of this is because I'm in the process of ordering a power-steering kit to replace my manual steering rack, and as far as I understand I'll have to make some changes to the front UCAs anyway so there's little point in doing an alignment now.

facultyofmusic

12-17-2021, 04:12 AM

In preparation for installing the fuel tank, I tried assembling the fuel pump onto the hanger. The hanger I'm using is the Pro-M High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger. The fuel pump I'm using is the Walbro GSS340BX.
158753 158754

When installing the fuel pump, I noticed that the hanger power wire tabs don't match the ones on the fuel pump. The tabs on the fuel pump are the same size, while the tab sockets from the hanger are one large one small. The small socket won't fit onto the tab on the fuel pump.
158755 158756

There is also no indication on the fuel pump as to which tab is positive and which tab is negative. I've tried searching online for this information, including the Walbro official website, to no avail. After searching the fuel pump on Summit Racing, I noticed that some fuel pumps come with a harness of some sort... but mine didn't. The pump just came in a small box with nothing but the pump itself.

In Paul (edwardb)'s post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=212968&viewfull=1#post212968) there shows a harness for a walbro pump. I'm wondering if I'm supposed to buy that harness separately... or am I supposed to change out the tab sockets? IIUC the fuel pump power connectors should be electrically insulated from fuel if possible. That means the sockets shouldn't just plug directly into the pump itself right?

Luckily the fuel hanger is designed to be serviceable so it doesn't actually prevent me from installing the fuel tank (which is planned for tomorrow), but I'd really like to get this sorted out. Once I do, I plan to follow this post by JohnK on testing the fuel system. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37203-Functional-testing-of-fuel-system-prior-to-installing-trunk-floor)

edwardb

12-17-2021, 05:43 AM

There is also no indication on the fuel pump as to which tab is positive and which tab is negative. I've tried searching online for this information, including the Walbro official website, to no avail. After searching the fuel pump on Summit Racing, I noticed that some fuel pumps come with a harness of some sort... but mine didn't. The pump just came in a small box with nothing but the pump itself.

In Paul (edwardb)'s post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=212968&viewfull=1#post212968) there shows a harness for a walbro pump. I'm wondering if I'm supposed to buy that harness separately... or am I supposed to change out the tab sockets? IIUC the fuel pump power connectors should be electrically insulated from fuel if possible. That means the sockets shouldn't just plug directly into the pump itself right?

You need the Walbro 94-615 Wiring Harness. It has the connector to plug into the pump. You don't plug the hangar wires directly to the pump. Once you have the harness, you'll need to splice the wires together. There has been some discussion about the best way to do that. In the Roadster build thread you linked I used some parts that had follow-up discussion about how fuel resistant they would be. Turned out to be fine. But on builds since then I use these: 922229 Molex 19164-0077, Perma-Seal™ Heat Shrink & Crimp Step-Down Butt Connector, 16-14/12-10 Ga from https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma-Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp-Step-Down/p_812028.h_812029.r_IF1003. They're perfect for the task. Maybe available elsewhere too. And yes, while it doesn't seem intuitive, both the pump connector and wiring splices can be immersed in gasoline depending on how full the tank is.

facultyofmusic

12-25-2021, 07:39 PM

You need the Walbro 94-615 Wiring Harness. It has the connector to plug into the pump. You don't plug the hangar wires directly to the pump. Once you have the harness, you'll need to splice the wires together. There has been some discussion about the best way to do that. In the Roadster build thread you linked I used some parts that had follow-up discussion about how fuel resistant they would be. Turned out to be fine. But on builds since then I use these: 922229 Molex 19164-0077, Perma-Seal™ Heat Shrink & Crimp Step-Down Butt Connector, 16-14/12-10 Ga from https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma-Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp-Step-Down/p_812028.h_812029.r_IF1003. They're perfect for the task. Maybe available elsewhere too. And yes, while it doesn't seem intuitive, both the pump connector and wiring splices can be immersed in gasoline depending on how full the tank is.

Awesome! Got that coming in the mail. I got some heat-shrink tubing around the house so I'll splice that together nicely. Thank you Paul.

facultyofmusic

12-25-2021, 08:14 PM

It's the holiday season again! It's always tough to find time to work on the car hobby at this time of year. Before going on the obligatory holiday trip I've allocated a day to install the fuel tank. Let's begin!

The fuel tank came in a huge box and was very well padded with tons of bagged air and paper. To my surprise even with ALL THAT padding, it still managed to get damaged during shipping. I tried to straighten the bent corners of the fuel tank but didn't want to over do it and risk damaging the weld seams.
159182 159183

Before installing the fuel tank I did the Jeff Kleiner mod (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38622-Kleiner-Mod) as advised from other build threads.
159184

With a friend to help out the install process wasn't too troublesome. I did have to make some modifications to the passenger-side mounting point and bracket. The metal tube that extends underneath the rear swivel mount was 3/4" too long. I used an angle grinder to cut and ground it off before putting the little square plastic pieces back on. The passenger side bracket's front mounting section wasn't bent nearly enough to reach the mounting point and it was nearly impossible to get the mounting bolt in. I put a ~15degree bend on the bracket at the point where it contacts the fuel tank, as well as a ~95degree bend at the end. This made the mounting process much easier.
159185 159186

I attached the fuel filter around the same place as JohnK and Paul (edwardb)'s build. There is the thick sheet of steel with 3 holes on it to the rear of the rear passenger wheel. That location is unused for builds that opted for independent rear suspension (IRS); it's a perfect place to put the fuel filter.
159187 159188 159189

Here's some final shots of the completed fuel tank install:
159190 159191

egchewy79

12-25-2021, 08:40 PM

IIRC the corners are meant to be bent. And you’ll need to flatten the area where it contacts the vertical 3/4” tubes. You may need to rebend the corners to get the body to fit. Oh and that 3/4” you trimmed off is supposed to sit on the flattened flange of the tank lip.

edwardb

12-25-2021, 09:53 PM

Awesome! Got that coming in the mail. I got some heat-shrink tubing around the house so I'll splice that together nicely. Thank you Paul.

Make sure the heat-shrink tubing is fuel resistant. The usual olefin heat-shrink tubing (the most common variety) isn't really up to the task.

Railroad

12-26-2021, 08:48 AM

I hope that gas tank filler grommet has been upgraded to a Ford part.

facultyofmusic

12-26-2021, 01:36 PM

IIRC the corners are meant to be bent. You may need to rebend the corners to get the body to fit.
Oh damn, I totally thought it was shipping damage since I didn't see the corners being bent in the manual. The corners also had some cardboard stuck in between the 2 metal sheets that makes the fuel tank so based on that I convinced myself that some blunt force during shipping caused the bend. I guess I'll have to keep this in mind when I install the body. Thanks!

And you’ll need to flatten the area where it contacts the vertical 3/4” tubes. Oh and that 3/4” you trimmed off is supposed to sit on the flattened flange of the tank lip.
Is this a common thing? I don't remember seeing this other build threads; perhaps I missed it. The bends on the fuel tank looked completely intentional as it aligns with the fuel tank strap as well as the tray underneath.

facultyofmusic

12-26-2021, 03:12 PM

I hope that gas tank filler grommet has been upgraded to a Ford part.
Right. I've seen 2 threads mentioning this already, one mentioning the part No. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29457-Gas-tank-filler-grommet) and another one about the leakage itself (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24360-Fuel-tube-to-gas-tank-quot-O-quot-seal-leaking). I wonder if I should watch for leakage and replace it then it just replace it now. I did use lubricant when installing the hose which should keep the grommet from damage? Is the ford part much much better?

facultyofmusic

12-26-2021, 03:14 PM

Make sure the heat-shrink tubing is fuel resistant. The usual olefin heat-shrink tubing (the most common variety) isn't really up to the task.

Thanks for this Paul. This completely slipped my mind.

Railroad

12-26-2021, 03:41 PM

Right. I've seen 2 threads mentioning this already, one mentioning the part No. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29457-Gas-tank-filler-grommet) and another one about the leakage itself (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24360-Fuel-tube-to-gas-tank-quot-O-quot-seal-leaking). I wonder if I should watch for leakage and replace it then it just replace it now. I did use lubricant when installing the hose which should keep the grommet from damage? Is the ford part much much better?

Regardless of the quality of installation, the part itself deteriorates. This occurred on mine in less than 6 months after installation. Do it now. Waiting until you add gasoline, just creates potential for more issues.

egchewy79

12-26-2021, 05:08 PM

Oh damn, I totally thought it was shipping damage since I didn't see the corners being bent in the manual. The corners also had some cardboard stuck in between the 2 metal sheets that makes the fuel tank so based on that I convinced myself that some blunt force during shipping caused the bend. I guess I'll have to keep this in mind when I install the body. Thanks!

Is this a common thing? I don't remember seeing this other build threads; perhaps I missed it. The bends on the fuel tank looked completely intentional as it aligns with the fuel tank strap as well as the tray underneath.

I checked the build manual again and no, it’s not listed in the manual so I must have read this on another forum post. The bent lip of the tank should be flattened so that the vertical tube and plastic endcap sits flush against the lip.

edwardb

12-26-2021, 10:04 PM

I checked the build manual again and no, it’s not listed in the manual so I must have read this on another forum post. The bent lip of the tank should be flattened so that the vertical tube and plastic endcap sits flush against the lip.

My Roadster manual has the following sentence in the fuel tank installation section: "At the locations on the tank where the tank straps come near the tank, use a pair of pliers and bend the bent parts flat." Then multiple pictures of the tank being installed. Have to look closely, but the lip is flat. Important to do this for the tank to set properly.

X3 (or whatever) on the at Ford gas tank seal. Easy to install now. A pain later. Ford F4ZZ-9072-DA. For 1987-1993 Mustang Fuel Tank. Mark at Breeze sells it as #30103 and it's a genuine Motorcraft part.

facultyofmusic

12-28-2021, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the words of warning guys, I've ordered the gas tank grommet and will drop the fuel tank to install the grommet and fix the bends in the fuel tank when the parts arrive. I visited JohnK's garage yesterday and when looking at his fuel tank I noticed how his passenger side front corner of the fuel tank was bent the same way as mine, but the rear wasn't and looked like shipping damage. Looks like I unbent one that was actually shipping damage and another one that was supposed to be that way.

facultyofmusic

12-28-2021, 01:38 PM

I decided that the Christmas present I'll give myself is to see my roadster stand on its own four wheels for the first time. Funny how it suddenly looks like a car once the wheels are on even though I know exactly what I'm building. :p
159319 159320

One of the reasons why I wanted it on its own wheels is to lower the car as much as possible to make it easier for me to step in and out of the frame when working inside the engine compartment. After much consideration I've decided to spray paint the engine compartment aluminum panels to matte black to match the powder-coated frame itself. I'm experimenting with the possibilities of working on the paint job without removing everything from the engine bay; by detaching parts only from the panels to be painted.
159321

Based on what I've read, I understand that aluminum is a "slippery" metal and doesn't adhere well to paint. There are dozen threads on painting the aluminum panels in the engine bay and I'm going through each one of them to further learn what it takes. The general consensus seems to be that if one sands it down and apply a layer of self etching primer to the panels before painting, the paint job should stay. I'll swing back to this as I get closer to actually doing it.

Unfortunately not everything went according to plan. When I tried to turn my rear wheels it felt surprisingly difficult. I thought it must be the new diff or something that needs a "break-in", so I kept turning it. Little did I know, my wilwood e-brake was scraping against the wheel well! It scraped off a bunch of paint and my heart dropped an inch when I saw it. Shiny perfect new wheels? Gone. Just like that. I should have checked for clearance issues for both main calipers and the e-brake calipers. I had assumed that if the main calipers clear the wheels, then the e-brake calipers will too. This was a terrible assumption.

So now I'm in search of a solution. I've started a separate thread here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41682-Wilwood-Parking-Brake-Clearance-Issue) just to talk about this issue. I'll keep majority of the discussions there and post any final decisions here.
159322 159323 159324

Last but not least, I've emailed FFR about purchasing a power-steering rack. Haven't heard back from them yet (which is completely expected during holiday season, no blame to FFR here) but I'm excited to get that installed.

Fman

12-28-2021, 02:02 PM

facultyofmusic

12-28-2021, 02:21 PM

You can try and spray paint those alum panels but if you want a high end job that will hold up over time you really need to have them powder coated. You can drill out those rivets and dissemble everything, it will be time consuming but worth the extra labor at this point to get panels that will stay looking nice for years to come. If you do go PC route make sure and bring as many as possible at one time, you get the best bang for your buck with a large batch.

I actually really want to powder coat the panels. What stopped me wasn't the fact they're already drilled in, but that I already applied sound dampening / insulation to the other side of the panels. The stuff is near impossible to remove. I tried removing a small patch of it earlier and it was such a pain in the *** I decided to just change my plans. I'm sure with strong through chemicals I can clean it off, but I don't have those chemical around, nor do I really want to do use those without proper training.

Will the paint deteriorate that much in the engine bay? I mean, it's always covered and never sees sun or rain. The only think it needs to deal with is heat? I admit I'm a complete noob at anything paint related, so really do appreciate your words of advice and knowledge.

Fman

12-28-2021, 06:34 PM

I actually really want to powder coat the panels. What stopped me wasn't the fact they're already drilled in, but that I already applied sound dampening / insulation to the other side of the panels. The stuff is near impossible to remove. I tried removing a small patch of it earlier and it was such a pain in the *** I decided to just change my plans. I'm sure with strong through chemicals I can clean it off, but I don't have those chemical around, nor do I really want to do use those without proper training.

Will the paint deteriorate that much in the engine bay? I mean, it's always covered and never sees sun or rain. The only think it needs to deal with is heat? I admit I'm a complete noob at anything paint related, so really do appreciate your words of advice and knowledge.

Oh yea, removing the sound dampening would be a lot of work. It will be fine if you spray paint them the paint the color will hold up fine the issue more than likely will be they chip and scratch easier compared to powder coating. You could always just touch them up from a chip or scratch if needed.

facultyofmusic

12-29-2021, 03:24 PM

After discussion with several more people IRL, as well as taking heed of the advice from y'all good folks, I've decided to keep the "aluminum project car" look by using the remaining sharkhide coating that I have on the engine aluminum panels. It will protect it for quite some time. I plan to do 2-3 coating of sharkhide to improve it's longevity, although that stuff already stays for quite a long time.

Thanks @Fman for your advice! You probably saved me from paint peeling in my engine bay a year or two from now. :p

facultyofmusic

12-31-2021, 02:18 AM

After putting the wheels on I tried turning my steering rack from lock to lock, and that's when I realized the stock F panels won't accommodate my front tires very well. I recalled reading something about modified "F panels" from other threads, so I ordered one. They arrived today. I overlayed the old F panels with the new one to transfer the rivet holes. It was interesting to see that the FFMetal F panels aren't just folded inward, but they're also much wider than the stock panels.
159441 159440

Learning from my past mistakes, I traced out some sound dampening material and applied it before installing the F panels. Much easier and cleaner this way.
159443 159442

The new F panels are JUST wide enough to miss the bend in my brake lines. I consider myself very lucky.
159444 159445

egchewy79

12-31-2021, 04:38 AM

facultyofmusic

12-31-2021, 02:30 PM

What size tires? Keep In mind that the rubbing changes once you get the car off jack stands and get everything aligned and set your ride height. My tires were rubbing at the bottom of the panels but resolved once I had the front suspension compressed under the weight of the car. Also I’ve never seen anyone put sound dampener on the F panels. Usually reserved for the cockpit

I have 275/40/17 Nitto G2 Tires in the front. AFAIK they are gigantic compared to the usual front tires used on the FFR roadster. TBH I should have expected the fitment issue. As for putting sound dampener on the F panels, I pretty much judge whether or not something needs sound dampening by knocking it with my knuckle and if it resonates too much like a gong then I slap sound dampeners on it. :D

egchewy79

12-31-2021, 03:30 PM

Yeah that’s wider than most fronts

facultyofmusic

12-31-2021, 03:37 PM

Not going to end the year without doing some work in the last few dozen hours! I removed all wiring harnesses and fuel lines to completely expose the engine bay aluminum panels, wiped everything off twice with acetone, and did two coatings of sharkhide on the panels. They look great! I'll call it a day (year?) now after reinstalling the harness and fuel system.
159523 159522

Before I bugger off to new years eve movie and dinner with family, I want to thank everyone who's offered their help and best wishes on this project. Some days I just don't feel like working, so I go read a few forum posts and next thing you know I'm wrenching away in the garage! It's been a blast. See you in 2022! You'll hear from me real soon :cool: (y'all know I can't keep my hands off the project for more than a few hours...)

JohnK

12-31-2021, 03:56 PM

That looks Great! Nice job.

facultyofmusic

01-02-2022, 03:42 AM

I swear I walked at least 20 circles around my car today wondering what I wanted to do today. I emptied out one of the spare boxes I had and saw my NPT pipe thread sealant, so I guess that's what we're doing today. In a post from a while ago someone (I think Paul?) recommended that I stay away from thread tape and use thread sealant instead.
159570

The only parts of my build so far that uses NPT fittings are the 4 brake caliper fittings and 2 -06AN-NPT fittings on my fuel filter. The brake caliper fittings were a bit tricky because I had planned to point them in certain orientations when mocking it up, but ended up having the pre-planned orientations either not very tight or so tight that I'll strip the fittings. I got them as close to the plan as possible and called it a day. These fittings are made from really really soft metal!
159571

After all that I sat there... just staring at the build. Then it took me, that urge to just drop the engine in. What are you waiting for?! You'll take it back out later anyway! Next thing you know I was phoning a friend asking if he's available tomorrow for a last minute engine install. It's the end of the new years holidays, let's end it with a (an unplanned) bang!

(no, hopefully not a bang from the engine dropping onto the floor.)

I spent the rest of the afternoon installing the transmission A frame and clearing out the engine bay to make room for the engine install. The A frame had 4 bolt holes and 3 of them aligned perfectly. The 4th one was persuaded into alignment via friendly physical agitation by a file. I put some grease on the exposed steel so it doesn't rust.
159572

Tomorrow morning my buddy's arriving and we'll try to drop in the engine. I have a 2 ton engine crane equipped with a balance-bar I bought from harbour freight a few minutes ago. I'm excited!

facultyofmusic

01-05-2022, 05:54 AM

More people came than I expected! Everyone was very excited to get the coyote and transmission into the car. I explained to them that this install is just to check for clearance and get ideas on where I can put my e-brakes and we'll have to take it out later. We're all on board!

Being my first time installing an engine, lifting the engine itself with the engine crane was quite nerve wracking. I recalled stories of accidents and disasters from my civil engineering course from university and that thin arm just doesn't look like it should be able to hold that gigantic engine. What do you know, it did! Pretty freaking kool.
159731

The hardest part of the install was getting the transmission into position without removing the shifter. I had to remove the transmission mounting "A frame" in order to lower the transmission enough to clear the shifter from the top. So for anyone wondering if you should remove the shifter before installing the T56: Yes, you should.

I was not able to bring the transmission to level without cutting off the default e-brake bracket. As described in other threads such as this one (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41240-T56-Mods&p=472735), the bracket will get in the way of the transmission. It needs to be removed. If I can do it again I'd remove it before installing the engine.
159732

I stood there and stared in awe at this successful engine install; partially of genuine concern due to the unbelievably tight fit. There is ~25mm between the passenger footbox and the right side engine valve covers, but there's only ~5mm between the driver footbox and the left side valve covers. A part of the engine harness that runs along the surface of the valve covers practically makes contact with the aluminum panels.
159733 159734 159735

Is this normal? Surely during startup the engine will shake, and during that shake the valve cover will hit the aluminum panels.

Another area of concern is the steering column. There is a dangling section of engine harness that touches the middle steering column segment. It looks like I can pull the harness back some with a zip tie, but it's still too close for comfort.

egchewy79

01-05-2022, 06:33 AM

that DS is tight!!
who's the guy who showed up in semiformal wear :) I like his style!!

John Ibele

01-05-2022, 01:55 PM

Nice progress in 2021! I think you really made the right choice on your engine bay aluminum panel treatment, given their condition (installed, w heat / sound treatment in place) when you asked the question. They look great with SharkHide.

facultyofmusic

01-06-2022, 05:14 AM

With the engine installed, I took some time to document the amount of space there is in the trans tunnel. I've seen threads requesting this information as well as received PMs about it. If you're looking for the measurements, please click here to go to the separate post I made for them (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41799-T56-transmission-tunnel-clearance-amp-measurements-(Gen-3-coyote)&p=479181#post479181).

I've also assembled the e-brake assembly and decided to use it if I can. I've found a nice place in the passenger side trans tunnel where I can mount it in such a way that it pokes out from the top.
159767 159768 159769 159770 159771 159772

While the clevis swing close to the transmission, I plan to use a metco safety loop to help guide the tension cables so they don't contact the drive shaft. I've also sat in the driver's seat and the handle is perfectly reachable without interfering where the shifter.

John Ibele

01-06-2022, 05:26 PM

facultyofmusic

01-20-2022, 02:35 AM

Hiya! Had to quarantine for a week due to covid exposure, but everyone turned out fine! I swear the worst part of it all was not being near by garage for a whole week! Now that I'm back, time for some updates!

In an earlier post I wrote about the wilwood parking brake caliper interference (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=478320&viewfull=1#post478320) issue. I resolved the issue by taking an angle grinder to the caliper and grinding an almost spherical curve to the calipers so they would fit the inside curve of the wheel well. It turned out very nice!
160569 160570 160571

The calipers sit at 12 o'clock of the rotor, you can't even see the ground surfaces unless you squat down and really try!
160572 160573

The full thread where I documented the issue is here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41682-Wilwood-Parking-Brake-Clearance-Issue&p=480593#post480593).

Something I forgot to mention in the previous update was that I measured the amount of available space in the transmission tunnel with the T56 Magnum + Gen 3 Coyote setup and documented in this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41799-T56-transmission-tunnel-clearance-amp-measurements-(Gen-3-coyote)). For anyone following my build for a similar setup, check out that thread to get a good sense for how much space (how much crap you can stuff) into the trans tunnel.

facultyofmusic

01-20-2022, 02:56 AM

Hard to tell everything from the photos ... does the notch / gear portion stick up above the tunnel? That's pretty obvious and I'm sure you've paid attention to that. You'll have a sharper turn for the cables down by the frame cross bar. If you plan to keep the cables above the frame (and I would suggest you do that mod), just make sure the pulleys are solidly mounted for that reason. Other than that the position you selected seems like a good alternative from what I can tell.

Yes the ratchet gear sticks just a little above the frame tube. When the parking brake is completely disengaged it sits flush with the handle so it's okay.
160576

There are parking brake cable mounting locations on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel near the rear diff. I plugged the parking brake cables into the two mounting holes and it almost lines up with the parking brake location. I'm a little worried that the slight angle between the cable-to-sleeve to sleeve-to-mount will damage the parking brake cables over time.
160577 160578

Do y'all think it's going to be a real concern?

John Ibele

01-20-2022, 11:58 AM

I see the setup and the angle change, but hard to know the impact on cable life without any direct experience. I'd probably do a real world test of pulling the cable through under load, and making a judgement call based on level of friction encountered. Kinda seat-of-the-pants approach, but there you go :rolleyes:

If that doesn't seem like a sound approach you can use pulleys to redirect the cables, as others have done, me included (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John-s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Throttle-Linkage&p=468742&viewfull=1#post468742). There are setups simpler than mine, and something like one of those versions (Fixit's example) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-40-Watt-Garage-6200-miles&p=335903&viewfull=1#post335903) could work well for you. Seems like in that area you wouldn't need a bracket to provide the right clearance and redirect for the cables, but something more like what Fixit did. You'd need to decide whether that approach solves the problem.

For that approach you'd need two pulleys, the bolt that goes through them, and either a tapped hole in one side of the frame (it's probably stout enough to handle the minor angle change), or a through hole and a nut on the PS end of the bolt. You want something like McMaster PN 3434T24 (https://www.mcmaster.com/3434T24/), so you can tighten the bolt against the stationary part of the pulley and still have the pulley turn freely. The nut would show on the PS trans tunnel, but not much, I think. Seems like it would be hidden by the PS seat. A spacer (hollow aluminum rod) on the bolt between pulley and frame would help to move the pulleys toward the center of the car, if needed.

460.465USMC

01-20-2022, 03:26 PM

In an earlier post I wrote about the wilwood parking brake caliper interference (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=478320&viewfull=1#post478320) issue. I resolved the issue by taking an angle grinder to the caliper and grinding an almost spherical curve to the calipers so they would fit the inside curve of the wheel well. It turned out very nice!

The calipers sit at 12 o'clock of the rotor, you can't even see the ground surfaces unless you squat down and really try!

The full thread where I documented the issue is here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41682-Wilwood-Parking-Brake-Clearance-Issue&p=480593#post480593).

Hi Danny,

I had the same issue with my Wilwood e-brake calipers. If only I had ordered the 18" wheels instead of 17"! Doh! Anyway, sounds like I resolved (hopefully) my clearance issue with a similar angle grinder approach. It was painful to take the grinder to those shiny red calipers. But, they cleaned up okay caliper paint. And, like you said virtually impossible to see with the wheel in place. Glad you were able to resolve your clearance issue!

facultyofmusic

01-20-2022, 08:43 PM

For that approach you'd need two pulleys, the bolt that goes through them, and either a tapped hole in one side of the frame (it's probably stout enough to handle the minor angle change), or a through hole and a nut on the PS end of the bolt. You want something like McMaster PN 3434T24 (https://www.mcmaster.com/3434T24/), so you can tighten the bolt against the stationary part of the pulley and still have the pulley turn freely. The nut would show on the PS trans tunnel, but not much, I think. Seems like it would be hidden by the PS seat. A spacer (hollow aluminum rod) on the bolt between pulley and frame would help to move the pulleys toward the center of the car, if needed.

Right. That approach does look the most reasonable of the bunch. I don't think I'll mind the bolt going through the trans tunnel member, I think if I use a button head bolt it will be virtually undetectable once the carpeting is on. Another approach is to put the pullies on the metco drive shaft safety loop. That has the added benefit of being easily removable!

facultyofmusic

01-20-2022, 08:46 PM

I had the same issue with my Wilwood e-brake calipers. If only I had ordered the 18" wheels instead of 17"! Doh!

Haha, I wish I had known too! How did you find out about the clearance issue? I only found out after noticing a large nasty scrape on the inner wheel well :( I hope future builders read our build threads and avoid this pitfall :P

facultyofmusic

01-21-2022, 12:53 AM

edwardb

01-21-2022, 06:47 AM

At the caliper end of the parking brake cable is a cable-end (I think it's called something else but I don't remember the name) that doesn't fit the wilwood calipers. The FFR provided one is mace shaped, like this:
160615

Whereas the wilwood caliper needs one that's hammer head shaped, like this:
160616

I have purchased some cable-ends that should secure onto the wire (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-03338) at a length that I cut, but upon receiving the item I realized the cable hole is much smaller in diameter than the cable itself. I could enlarge the hole with a drill and thread the parking cable through, but at that point I really question its structural integrity. I don't want my cable-ends to give one day when my car is parked on a slope somewhere.

Wilwood does sell a parking brake cable kit like this one (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-330-14891), but it seems such a waste to just throw away a good set of cables just because the cable-ends are incorrect.

I've read on some other build threads that I can buy a cable end and take it to a guy with some industrial strength hydraulic machine to press it on, but I don't really have one of those around the neighborhood. Any suggestions?

Check your build manual. There's a section under E-Brake Cables -> Wilwood E-Brake Adapter that describes and pictures the adapter that should have come with your kit and allows the cables you have to be attached to the Wilwood caliper. No additional parts or cable modifications required. The adapter is a right angle metal piece that bolts to the arm on the caliper and has a slot for the cable end to be captured. You can see it in the background of this picture from my 20th Anniversary build. Sorry it's a little blurry. Cropped from a larger picture. I also painted it black. The part you should have received is plain steel. Important to install now because it affects the length of your e-brake cables and connections back at the handle.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/Rear_Cropped.JPG?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/37aae101-f84e-4643-8779-c5d71efbfc65/p/4aaa0aea-290a-48b7-b4ab-e7de6e19e335)

facultyofmusic

01-21-2022, 04:04 PM

Check your build manual. There's a section under E-Brake Cables -> Wilwood E-Brake Adapter that describes and pictures the adapter that should have come with your kit and allows the cables you have to be attached to the Wilwood caliper. No additional parts or cable modifications required. The adapter is a right angle metal piece that bolts to the arm on the caliper and has a slot for the cable end to be captured. You can see it in the background of this picture from my 20th Anniversary build. Sorry it's a little blurry. Cropped from a larger picture. I also painted it black. The part you should have received is plain steel. Important to install now because it affects the length of your e-brake cables and connections back at the handle.

My mistake here Paul, as I forgot to mention another reason as to why I'd like to add a new cable stop. Since I relocated the parking brakes to a location closer to the cable sleeve mount location, I have a lot of extra slack coming out from the other side. Here's a picture of how much extra cable I have with the brake-handle end tight:
160671

I'll need to cut the cable down to size anyways right?

460.465USMC

01-21-2022, 04:06 PM

Haha, I wish I had known too! How did you find out about the clearance issue? I only found out after noticing a large nasty scrape on the inner wheel well :( I hope future builders read our build threads and avoid this pitfall :P

Yep! Same here. Was pretty excited to get my wheels and tires and make it to the "roller" milestone, so rotated the rear wheels a bit. Didn't notice the scrape at first. Not sure if I'm going to do much with it, other than keep a close eye on clearance once I'm at go-kart stage. Here's what mine looked like:

Wilwood E-brake Clearance Issue (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Dash-and-Wiring-Progress&p=462089&viewfull=1#post462089)

edwardb

01-21-2022, 05:28 PM

My mistake here Paul, as I forgot to mention another reason as to why I'd like to add a new cable stop. Since I relocated the parking brakes to a location closer to the cable sleeve mount location, I have a lot of extra slack coming out from the other side. Here's a picture of how much extra cable I have with the brake-handle end tight:
160671

I'll need to cut the cable down to size anyways right?

Yeah, OK you'll need to shorten that cable because you relocated the handle. Forgot about that earlier in your thread. But the kit still provides a way to attach to the Wilwood e-brake caliper once you shorten it. Should be a way to crimp a similar lug on the shortened cable. Or change to a different cable that's the right length out of the box.

facultyofmusic

01-22-2022, 08:39 PM

I sat in the driver side on the bare aluminum panel and engaged the parking brake over and over again while thinking about other parts of the build. Somewhere along that moment I realized that pulling the parking brake was actually not that comfortable. The handle on my daily driver (a subaru) is on the driver side in such a way that it lined up with my right arm when I engage it; it's much more comfortable. Keeping this in mind, I relocated the parking brake handle to the driver side of the transmission tunnel to see how well it works. I really liked the results:
160780

I was worried that mounting it too far forward may cause it to hit the dashboard. Turns out there's just the right amount of space for my thumb to press the button as it swings up and down:
160781 160782

With the brake fully disengaged, the handle portion has a ~1/8" gap.
160783

I'm seriously loving this setup. Not just for it's ease of use, but also because now I can set up the brake cables in a way that doesn't require a roller. All I have to do is buy one of those wilwood universal parking cable kits (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-330-9371) and install the cable mount at a location that's inline with the cable's pull direction; no rollers required! Another potential benefit is that the drive train is tilted towards the passenger side, giving the driver side more room around the drive shaft area.

facultyofmusic

01-24-2022, 02:45 AM

[post slot reserved for future e-brake documentation]

facultyofmusic

01-24-2022, 02:48 AM

Spent some time on a lazy Sunday tidying up the garage, installed a new peg board, and put up a new shelf. With only one car-slot worth of space in the garage, I gotta make every cubic feet count! I received the fuel pump harness in the mail earlier this week and now I can finally finish the fuel system main loop.

I used the fuel resistant crimp shrink-wrap (https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma-Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp-Step-Down/p_812028.h_812029.r_IF1003) recommended by EdwardB. I bought 10 because they don’t sell less than 10 at a time (LOL) so if anyone wants a pair, give me a shout and I’ll send one to you in the mail (Note: I’ll note in the bracket if I still have them. Right now I have 6 left. I’ll edit this post as that number changes).

I didn’t have a heat gun for the shrink wrap, so I took a blow torch to the wraps from a distance. The first one I did was… a little aggressive on my end. Some of the heat-shrink charred into a dark brown colour and I immediately backed off and did the rest with more patience. Luckily it wasn’t too bad.
161204 161205 161206 161207

I installed the fuel pump back into the tank and locked the seal ring in place. The tank is finished for now!

A note on the LOCTITE thread-sealants I used on the NPT fittings I used to connect my Trickflow fuel filter (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-23006): I left the thread sealant to cure over a week because every time I went to check on it the sealant was still liquidy. After a while I thought something doesn’t seem right so I read more carefully on how these sealants work. Turns out they cure in the absence of oxygen, so the bit of sealant left open in air isn't supposed to cure. Silly me.
161208

My Metco driveshaft safety-loop (https://metcomotorsports.com/mdl2500) arrived in the mail earlier this week. Next I plan to work on installing the safety loop as well as the transmission mount.

edwardb

01-24-2022, 06:49 AM

For $20 - $30 you can get a real heat gun (Harbor Freight, Amazon, etc.) which I'd highly recommend. Or more if you want to go fancier. I have a DeWalt that I've been using for some time. You have wiring ahead of you yet. A torch (or whatever) isn't the best choice. You're making good progress though. Enjoying following along.

Fman

01-24-2022, 08:58 AM

Nice work! I remember installing my Aeromotive fuel pump and thinking what could possibly go wrong having electrical wires in my fuel tank?:D

facultyofmusic

01-24-2022, 11:10 PM

facultyofmusic

01-24-2022, 11:32 PM

Today I spent time aligning my transmission and installing the Metco driveshaft safety loop. The install is straightforward, but I there's good information to be published here, so here we go.

The T56 Magnum transmission likes to swing its tail towards the passenger side, so much that the body of the transmission will contact the trans tunnel frame member when raised to correct mounting height:
161228

Not shown in the picture is that the tail of the transmission is ALSO too far towards the passenger side for the rear diff as well, so it's not just that the trans is too big. It's misaligned. To solve this, I mounting the transmission as far towards the driver side as possible. This gives a good amount of room from the trans tunnel:
161229 161230

For mount height, I tried putting the "A-frame" both on top and below the frame mounting tab. When placed above the tab the transmission sits very high. When placed below it's still high, but it looks much better.
161231

The body of the transmission BARELY makes contact with the A-frame and is easily cleared via a thin washer between the transmission and the A-frame.

The Metco driveshaft safety loop install was also quite straightforward. However, since the T56 mounts rather high, the loop needs to be raised up as well. I achieved this by using washers placed under the loop. Shown in the picture is an assortment of washers I could find around the garage; I have correctly sized ones on the way and will swap them out:
161232

The end result looks pretty good, with everything aligned and the loop clearing the driveshaft should I install it. Unfortunately I had some trouble installing the driveshaft. Even after lowering the transmission as much as possible, I did not have enough space to maneuver the gear shaft into its respective socket on the transmission. Looks like I'll have to install it on-the-fly when I drop in the engine again at a later date.
161233 161234

Fman

01-25-2022, 01:16 AM

JohnK

01-25-2022, 11:15 AM

facultyofmusic

01-25-2022, 09:38 PM

Does the T-56 have a rubber doughnut to remove? On the TKO600 you can take a pair of needle nose pliers and it pulls out which made it much easier for me to install my driveshaft. It is a tight fit, I would be surprised if you could install the drive shaft with the Metco hoop installed. I had to drop my transmission as far downward possible to create enough space/correct angle for the splines to align and push into the transmission.

There IS a black rubber seal looking thing at the tail of the transmission:
161264

However it really doesn't look like it should be removed. I can also slide the drive shaft in just fine with it in place:
161265

facultyofmusic

01-25-2022, 09:39 PM

Hey Daniel. Nice work! Your build is really coming along. The only comment I'd make is to not get too hung up on the position of the engine/trans at this moment. Ultimately, where they end up will be dictated solely by driveline pinion angle when you get to that point. How things look at this moment may be a bit deceiving. Ask me how I know. :p

Ahh, thanks for this tip. I actually had no idea what pinion angle is and I just looked it up, now it makes total sense. Actually kinda kool how one wouldn't want the drive shaft to lay completely straight (because then the U joints wouldn't "work" and lubricate itself). Neat!

Fman

01-25-2022, 10:19 PM

There IS a black rubber seal looking thing at the tail of the transmission:
161264

However it really doesn't look like it should be removed. I can also slide the drive shaft in just fine with it in place:
161265

Yea do not touch that rubber seal the doughnut would be inside that seal. Like I mentioned it was a PIA to install that drive shaft, it takes some choice words and maneuvering of the transmission downward to give you the straightest shot possible to get the splines to align and push in.

This is the seal I was referring to...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136332&d=1602727309

facultyofmusic

01-25-2022, 10:51 PM

Continuing my electrical adventures from post #77 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=476336&viewfull=1#post476336) and #78 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=476337&viewfull=1#post476337), it's time to work on the driver side of the firewall. This includes both the chassis harness as well as parts of the coyote harness.

The firewall aluminum sheet is quite sharp. I used electrical tape to soften the edge so it won't cut into the harness if it does make contact. I then used zip-ties to hold the chassis-harness's thick trunk up and away from the steering shaft.
161267 161268 161269

The coyote install instructions says to join the blue, orange ignition/start wires as well as the green fuel pump wires from the RF harness to the Ford provided 6-way pigtail connector. I soldered the wires together and wrapped it in a nice harness tube for organization.
161270

I routed the pedal and clutch switch end of the coyote harness through the middle hole of my firewall and extended it towards to footbox and then put the harness through a U shaped path around the top of the pedal box in such a way that the accelerator pedal and clutch switch wires branch off from the harness at just the right locations:
161271

One disadvantage of this setup is that the OBD2 port now lives next to the driver's left leg. If I need to tune and collect data from the car I'll have to run a cable from there to the passenger seat where I presumably will place my laptop which collects tuning data. I'm sure the cables will be long enough though. Another thing I want to do is splice the MIL light towards the dash so I have a more obvious "HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM" indicator. Maybe I'll even put a buzzer on it too.

With this setup the foot-box portion of the harness routing should be complete. I still need to re-route the chassis-rear-harness to the passenger side of the trans tunnel to make room for the new parking brake handle location. I'll need to pull my engine out again for that, so it will wait. My Vintage gauges have not yet arrived from FFR, so I'll leave the dash wiring for later when that arrives too.

It looks quite cramped behind the dashboard, but at least now I know where everything goes :P
161272

edwardb

01-25-2022, 11:39 PM

I agree with putting the MIL (Multifunction Indicator Light, MIL light is a bit redundant) up where it's in your line of sight. I wouldn't mess with a buzzer. Aside from the fact you probably wouldn't hear it with the car running, once everything is sorted, tuned, etc. the MIL will rarely be lit. That's a good thing. The Gen 3 setup in my Coupe hasn't lit for two driving seasons. Probably should say that out loud... I've put a code reader on the ODB2 port a couple times just to be sure. All good.

facultyofmusic

01-26-2022, 07:31 PM

edwardb

01-27-2022, 02:17 PM

I'm going over some of the bigger-wires between the harness and engine power hungry components. The RF harness has a long wire that goes to the starter and another one that goes to the alternator. IIUC because I'm using the coyote motor, the RF harness doesn't need to control the alternator or the starter; meaning I can just directly connect the battery to the starter and alternator instead of the RF harness, is this correct?

Another way to describe it is instead of this:

battery -> RF -> starter + alternator

I can do

battery -> RF, starter, alternator

Another question: In the same bundle as the alternator red wire is a brown alternator-ign wire. I don't see this mentioned anywhere for the coyote setup. Have I missed it in the instructions somewhere?

Waited for someone else to answer. Don't want to hog all the questions. But here you go FWIW... The RF harness schematic does show several large wires to the "starter solenoid." Some guys drag those wires all the way to the actual starter. But IMO they're often not long enough and frankly doesn't look great. My opinion is that's a throwback to when a firewall mounted starter solenoid was commonplace. And for that it makes sense. But now that starters with integral solenoids are the norm, a firewall mounted solenoid isn't necessary. Personally, I put those RF power wires on binding post, or bus bar, or master disconnect (lots of options) somewhere else and provide battery power to there. For the actual starter solenoid, all you need is a direct cable from the battery on the large post and the start wire from the Coyote harness on the small post. For the alternator, no you don't need the RF brown alternator wire. That's for a different version alternator. You can remove it from the harness completely. You do need a large power cable to the post on the alternator. Some think the one in the RF harness is a little small (8 gauge as I recall) but it works. 4 gauge is probably better. The Coyote harness only includes the control cable which plugs into the connector on the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT alternator, which I assume you're using. It's what's recommended for the Coyote. There are lots of ways to wire the power and Coyote installation on these builds. My 20th Anniversary Roadster build thread has a lot of detail on how I did mine. A number of builders have done something similar. Straightforward are works. My Coupe is wired nearly the same, but I didn't explain it quite as much.

facultyofmusic

01-27-2022, 03:38 PM

Waited for someone else to answer. Don't want to hog all the questions. But here you go FWIW... The RF harness schematic does show several large wires to the "starter solenoid." Some guys drag those wires all the way to the actual starter. But IMO they're often not long enough and frankly doesn't look great. My opinion is that's a throwback to when a firewall mounted starter solenoid was commonplace. And for that it makes sense. But now that starters with integral solenoids are the norm, a firewall mounted solenoid isn't necessary. Personally, I put those RF power wires on binding post, or bus bar, or master disconnect (lots of options) somewhere else and provide battery power to there. For the actual starter solenoid, all you need is a direct cable from the battery on the large post and the start wire from the Coyote harness on the small post. For the alternator, no you don't need the RF brown alternator wire. That's for a different version alternator. You can remove it from the harness completely. You do need a large power cable to the post on the alternator. Some think the one in the RF harness is a little small (8 gauge as I recall) but it works. 4 gauge is probably better. The Coyote harness only includes the control cable which plugs into the connector on the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT alternator, which I assume you're using. It's what's recommended for the Coyote. There are lots of ways to wire the power and Coyote installation on these builds. My 20th Anniversary Roadster build thread has a lot of detail on how I did mine. A number of builders have done something similar. Straightforward are works. My Coupe is wired nearly the same, but I didn't explain it quite as much.

Thank you Paul, your explanation is exactly as I have analyzed after going through the wiring diagram. The alternator part I wasn't sure because the manual said to not use the brown wire if I have a "one-wire alternator" and I didn't know what a one-wire alternator is. The manual also didn't specify what to do with the brown wire, so I'm glad I got confirmation on it.

I'm going to power the RF harness from the switched post on the battery cut off switch, and run a 4 gauge wire from the battery straight to the alternator. Since I have the breeze battery box mounting at the front of the car anyway, this setup is much cleaner. I don't think I need to run the alternator through battery cut off since it's such an integral part of the engine.

Nigel Allen

01-27-2022, 04:34 PM

It is definitely a good idea to run the alternator output through the battery isolator as well. The Coyote has the alternator mounted down low and out of the way, but just imagine if you're working underneath and swing a spanner and accidentally short it to the positive terminal. I can recall at least three cases where this has happened and completely burnt out the wiring loom as the alternator is usually not fused.

The worst case resulted in personal injury where a mechanic working on a six cylinder diesel rested a full can of penetrant on the manifold. Unfortunately it touched against the output terminal of the alternator and even though the engine wasn't running the full battery voltage passed through the can piercing it and the resulting arcing ignited the contents. Fortunately due to a high level of PPE (underground mining) the mechanic only received burns to small parts of his body despite burning liquid spraying on his overalls and gloves.

Thanks for taking the time to document your build, I am enjoying following along.

facultyofmusic

01-28-2022, 03:58 AM

facultyofmusic

01-28-2022, 04:19 AM

Now that I have all the measurements and clearances checked, I can remove the engine and start working on the trans tunnel mounted components! The extra amount of space I had with the engine inside the car was AMAZING and I'm going to miss it, but the faster I get to finishing up the engine bay the earlier I can drop it back in for good!

Here are the list of work items I need to do before dropping it back in permanently:

Install the parking brake handle
Route the new parking brake cable
Install the accelerator pedal (requires coyote install kit. Currently backordered)
Add head insulation to the portions of engine bay aluminum that will sit close to the headers and exhaust pipes.
Finish routing engine-bay power harnesses that go under the engine.
Plan, route, and install hydraulic clutch lines. I'm debating between using one long stainless steel braided line vs using the leftover brake lines I have.
Fill the transmission with fluid? I get the impression that I should do this before installing the transmission.
Go over the coyote install manual and make sure everything's on the engine up to installation stage.

If anyone can think of anything to add to that list please do say so. :P

The biggest hurdle when installing the engine was the shifter getting caught on the frame, so I decided to remove it this time beforehand. To do this, I unbolted the transmission A-frame and dropped the transmission as low as I could. I then unbolted the 6 bolts that hold down the red shifter cover, took a dead blow hammer to the side of the red plate and voilà! Came right off.
161347 161348 161349 161350
I covered the opening up with masking tape to ensure random things don't fall in accidentally.

I also took pictures of the amount of space between the exhaust ports and the firewall to get a sense of what I'm working with when I need to install the header. It's real tight.
161351 161352

Last time while organizing the surprisingly small amount of boxes I have left I found the steering wheel so I decided to install it. Pretty neat! The gauges will be swapped out for black vintage style gauges from FFR.
161353 161354

I'm going to uninstall the alternator as well seeing how easy it is to remove before pulling out the engine. The engine should be back out in the next update. Excited!

facultyofmusic

01-29-2022, 06:52 PM

Taking the engine back out was a BREEZE after taking off the shifter, alternator, and oil filter. There were so many less potential points of contact that by buddy and I did it in less than 30mins. Woo!

Now I know we were JUST talking about alternator wiring but... hear me out:
I FREAKING LOVE TOGGLE SWITCHES.

I bought this ignition control panel full of toggle switches from Summit Racing and all I could think about was where to put it on the car. So I guess that's what we're doing until my brain is willing to think about something else.
161411

I like the look of the road-configuration cobra dashboard, so I want to keep it as is. I want to keep the switches and button more frequently used close by on the dashboard and the default FFR configuration already does a great job of that. There are, however, many "hidden" toggle switches and buttons on the bottom of the dashboard. I'm not a big fan of those. With this extra control panel I will relocate a buttons and switches such that they are either on the dashboard or on the panel. The panel will hold switches that don't need to be used frequently while driving.

As for the location of this panel I'm drawing inspiration from the Mk4 Supra stock interior (yes yes I know JDM fanboy blah blah). The Mk4 Supra isn't my favourite car. It doesn't have my favourite engine in any car, nor my favourite exterior design of any car. It does, however, have my favourite interior layout due to its "driver centric" layout. It looks like a cockpit and everything is in service of the driver. Everything's close by: The hand brake is next to the shifter on the drive side (which I already did), and everything else is on a panel that surrounds the driver's hand reachable space. I aim to do something similar. Here's a picture of the Mk4's interior vs a rough sketch of what I have in mind:
161409 161410

In the rough sketch there is a red perimeter around the driver's seat. That's the "driver reachable area". Ideally, everything the driver needs to touch is located within that perimeter. Immediately to the right of the driver's leg is the parking brake and the emergency battery cut-off switch. Note that the battery cut-off switch isn't where it currently is; it needs to be moved. To the right of the battery cut-off switch will be the control panel mentioned above. That's what we're working on today: Relocating the cut-off switch and installing the control panel.

I started by relocating the battery cut-off switch towards the driver side. This part is easy, just shift everything to the driver-side both front and back of the firewall. I had to relocate the fuse mounting bracket a little, but that was no hassle at all.
161413 161414 161415

There's a hole where the cut-off switch used to be but that's ok. I'll cut out a piece of aluminum to cover it up.

facultyofmusic

01-29-2022, 07:11 PM

To get a sense of what the control panel placement looks like, I make a prototype using cardboard. The idea here is to have the control panel be angled upwards at the same angle as the dashboard itself, but recessed into the firewall. From the side it should have a zig zag profile (similar to the national flag of Nepal if you know what that looks like).
161416 161417 161418 161419 161420

I taped the prototype to its marked location in the sketch:
161421 161422

The good:

It's not hard to reach but also not in the way when I don't need it.
The top of the prototype is at the same plane as the bottom of the dashboard space. This was intentional as I wanted easy routing between the control panel and the rest of the wires behind the dashboard.
It looks pretty sweet.

The not yet good:

It's a little too wide. The tans tunnel is a trapezoidal shape and narrows towards the rear of the car. The prototype is a square box. I'll modify it to conform to the profile of the trans tunnel on the passenger side of the box.
It needs a big chunk of aluminum panel that I don't have. I'll see if I can break it down and piece it together.

The control panel is currently floating. I have not decided whether or not I want to fill the bottom. I could turn it into a small drawer, or leave the space there for a wireless phone charger where you slip your cellphone into that space and it starts charging automatically.

Stay tuned!

egchewy79

01-29-2022, 08:20 PM

love the vision. keep it coming!

WIS89

01-30-2022, 09:29 AM

Daniel-

I am CRAZY about the ideas you have about the "cockpit" style layout. And, the Supra is a great example of that. It's hard to do with so many right angles that already exist, as opposed to the Supra's rounded and curved contours. However, I really think you have some great ideas here, and they will look terrific. While not "traditional," I think it will be very appealing and useful to you -- the driver!

Keep the great ideas coming, and I look forward to your next update!

Regards,

Steve

facultyofmusic

01-31-2022, 03:43 AM

With the ignition control panel prototype in place, I now have a good idea about what I want my harnesses to look like around the firewall region. The key cylinder will be discarded, and the wires that's currently on the key will route to the ignition control panel. In post #148 I talked about connecting the starter, alternator, and RF power feed to the switched post of the battery cut-off switch. Now it's time to turn these thoughts into action.

Side note: While giving my brain a breather from all the wiring I decided to add some heat insulation to the areas of the firewall that will sit close to the exhaust headers and exhaust pipes. I used some 3M VHB foam tape to secure the heat insulation material to the engine bay aluminum. I used 3M VHB tape because It's supposed to withstand high temperatures without giving out. Some of the panels aren't finalized yet; for those I used masking tape to temporarily secure it in place. The brake and fuel lines are still exposed. I plan to wrap them in heat insulation as well.
161514 161515 161516

Back to the main topic at hand: Wiring.

According the RF wiring diagram in the manual, the multiple thick red wires at the end of the alternator and starter harnesses are really just the same wires interconnected. I completely unsleeved the alternator and starter harnesses and found this is indeed the case.

The 3 red wires from the alternator harness is connected as follows:

1 goes to power the key cylinder BATT terminal, providing power to on-with-acc, on-with-ign, and starter relay components depending on key position.
1 goes to power the RF fuse panel, providing power to on-with-battery (or always on) components. In my build these components can be cut-off using the master battery cutoff switch.
1 goes to the alternator, connecting the alternator's positive terminal with the battery and rest of the harness.

The alternator has just one red wire. It comes from the last red wire mentioned in the list above. This wire is actually just one long wire arranged in a "V" fashion, where the bottom angle of the "V" is the RF harness main branching point. Since I'm connecting the alternator to the switched post of the battery cutoff switch, I don't need this harness. After I completely removed this wire from the harness I realized that it's quite literally the perfect wire to run from switched post to the alternator. The ring terminals are JUST the right size, and it's length is perfect for running from the post to the alternator. I sleeved this wire with one of the harness tube sleeves I tore off the RF harness and ran it from post to alternator location. Worked out super well. Here's a labeled picture of major harnesses (the alternator wire is on the right):
161517
(please also use the picture above when referencing major harness locations).

Here's a close up of the battery cut-off switch area:
161518
Here you can see the two posts of the battery cut off switch. The bottom post is always connected to the battery. The top post is only hot when the cut-off switch is in the "ON" position. The bottom post has just one component connected to it (aside from battery) and that's the coyote ECU memory power. It needs to be always on so the ECU doesn't forget what it learned. The top post has the starter, RF power, and alternator power connected to it; they all lose power as soon as the battery cut-off switch turns to OFF position.

How here's the fun picture, the inner firewall layout:
161519
Once again I've labeled all the major branches coming out of the fuse box. In this picture the key switch wires are still connected to the key; this will be changed soon as I get the ignition panel in place. The "2 red wires from the starter harness" is what connects to the top post at a 45 degree angle in the previous picture. If you look closely you can see how one of them powers the fusebox and the other powers the key cylinder.

And that's it! As of this moment I can finally and confidently say that I've tamed the harness. It's not tucked away all nice yet, but at least everything makes sense. I hope these labeled pictures are helpful to y'all. :)

facultyofmusic

02-02-2022, 02:43 AM

The rear harness is quite straight forward. Regardless, let's document what mine looks like.

I routed my rear harness through the trans tunnel on the passenger side. I actually had it on the driver side initially, but moved it to the passenger side after moving my parking brake handle and pulley assembly to driver side.
161642

Passenger side of the trans tunnel has a big metal tab where the FFR provided parking brake cables are supposed to go. I curved the harness around it towards the passenger side.
161643

Through out my build I've been using these harness holders (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L6H9VDP) I saw from Paul (edwardb)'s build thread. I've attached a few of these along the harness route to keep it in place.
161644

The harness branches to several end points near the fuel tank. I used cable ties to secure these. I wanted to keep the fuel pump and fuel level sender harness close to the fuel tank. I swear to god I almost drilled a hole on my fuel tank for the little harness holders LOL (drink the beer AFTER working on the car, not before it). Before I did that I realized what a terrible idea that was and used strong 3M double sided tape to tape down the harness holder instead. Phew!!! Here's a picture of the rest of the harness and another labeled picture of how they are routed:
161645 161646

John Ibele

02-02-2022, 08:59 AM

Wow, you're having lots of fun, from cockpit layout to wiring. Good for you. I know now how you got attached to your new location for the emergency brake :).

One question about your wiring, since you labeled it in a photo ... do you need that gauge wire going to the ECU (are its power requirements that high)? Related question: is the mega-fuse in this location protecting anything, practically speaking?

I'm no expert and I haven't been wiring up a Coyote, so I could well be missing something. Including, obviously, the power requirements for the ECU. Wait for others to chime in, which they will if I'm off base.

edwardb

02-02-2022, 09:19 AM

Wow, you're having lots of fun, from cockpit layout to wiring. Good for you. I know now how you got attached to your new location for the emergency brake :).

One question about your wiring, since you labeled it in a photo ... the draw for the engine ECU should be extremely low, I would think, so you shouldn't need the beefy wire you have off the battery post for that purpose. Will work just fine, of course, but if it proves bulky I would think you could go with something much smaller.

The item that raises more concern for me is the location in your circuit of the 250A mega-fuse. If something's off electrically, your ECU is going to be toast long before that fuse blows. So, not sure that helps much in that location. More common would be to put the mega-fuse in between the alternator and your main bus bar, or less commonly between battery and the battery post. Again, not going to hurt anything and will work fine, but I'm not sure it's protecting anything.

If you wanted to protect the ECU rather than coming straight off the battery post, you could go first to an auto-resetting breaker in the location where you have the mega-fuse, with a much lower amp rating matched to the needs of the ECU. Just one alternative to getting what you need.

I'm no expert and I haven't been wiring up a Coyote, so I could well be missing something. Including, obviously, the power requirements for the ECU. Wait for others to chime in, which they will if I'm off base.

Your points regarding that 250amp megafuse, where it's locating in the wiring, and the gauge of the wires, are all legitimate questions except that's exactly how Ford Performance says to wire it. So I'd recommend doing it that way. Which is also what I've done on my two Coyote builds. No point in getting into a contest with them if something happens and you didn't wire it like they instructed.

I agree best practice is protection between the alternator and battery. There I use a second megafuse, sized to approximately match the alternator amp rating.

John Ibele

02-02-2022, 10:15 AM

Got it, Paul, makes sense. I'd do and recommend the same thing in that case.

edwardb

02-02-2022, 02:03 PM

Got it, Paul, makes sense. I'd do and recommend the same thing in that case.

Just a real quick additional comment I should have explained more clearly. In the Coyote system, the fuse and wire to the PDB in this case handles much more than just the PCM. It's powering the entire Coyote system and is the single source of power. Includes everything -- fuel pump, cooling fan, throttle body, DBW, injectors, coils, O2 sensors, PCM, etc. You get the idea. Inside the PDB are the appropriate fuses, and in some cases relays, for the individual circuits. If you add up the ratings for all the currents in the PDB I'm guessing it could get close to the 250 amps. I'm assuming our friendly engineers at Ford did the math. Since it's extremely unlikely all would be drawing at full current at the same time, the 250 amps does seem a bit overkill. But that's obviously what they chose.

John Ibele

02-02-2022, 03:34 PM

facultyofmusic

02-04-2022, 03:13 AM

Just a real quick additional comment I should have explained more clearly. In the Coyote system, the fuse and wire to the PDB in this case handles much more than just the PCM. It's powering the entire Coyote system and is the single source of power. Includes everything -- fuel pump, cooling fan, throttle body, DBW, injectors, coils, O2 sensors, PCM, etc. You get the idea. Inside the PDB are the appropriate fuses, and in some cases relays, for the individual circuits. If you add up the ratings for all the currents in the PDB I'm guessing it could get close to the 250 amps. I'm assuming our friendly engineers at Ford did the math. Since it's extremely unlikely all would be drawing at full current at the same time, the 250 amps does seem a bit overkill. But that's obviously what they chose.

Thanks for the clarifications Paul!

facultyofmusic

02-04-2022, 03:14 AM

Good background. And along the way, answered all the questions I wasn't going to pollute Dan's build thread or confuse Coyote owners with. Wayyy more going on in RUN mode than I suspected. Thanks for educating a non-Coyote builder!

Hey no worries John! Keep the questions coming. The more answers we have the better for the future builder who reads this thread. :D About the fuse, yes I've both talked about it IRL with fellow builders and seen it being discussed on the forums. Can't imagine that 250A ever getting maxed out.

facultyofmusic

02-04-2022, 03:52 AM

In post #132 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=480941&viewfull=1#post480941) I discussed the new parking brake handle location. Earlier during my build the parking brake was on the passenger side trans tunnel, but I've since then moved it to the driver side. After staring at it for a few days, I decided to finalize its placement. It's time to finish the parking brake!

I decided to purchase the wilwood universal parking brake cable kit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-330-9371). Why? Because...

The FFR provided brake lines had mustang style line-ends that didn't play well with the wilwood parking brake. There's a little adapter for it, but I don't like how it looks.
The clip that secures the FFR provided cable in place is REALLY FREAKING HARD TO TAKE OUT once its in. I had to contort my hands in awful ways just to press all the tabs at the same time so I could un-mount it. I never want to do that ever again.
The wilwood parking brake kit offers a great mounting solution that's adjustable and versatile.
The Lokar cable clamp that I see in pretty much every other build is no where to be found. Every place has it out of stock. The wilwood parking brake cable kit comes with it as a part of the kit.

So in the end it was a no brainer. The package came in the mail a few days later.

I started by making a mounting plate for the cable mounting bracket. I took a strip of steel, cut it down to a length that would span the trans tunnel truss structure and hold the bracket in place. I only drilled the bottom hole and used clamps to secure to top so I can adjust the bracket-to-handle angle after the handle is mounted.
161727 161728 161729

I then routed the cables from the calipers to the driver side trans tunnel by going behind the diff, over the top of the diff, then back down the front of the diff. The pictures should make more sense:
161730 161731 161732 161733

I secured the parking brake handle to the trans tunnel's top-driver-side-beam by drilling an opening on top of the beam just big enough to fit my 1/2in socket and a hole at the bottom of the beam for the bolt from the handle itself. The holes will get covered up once the trans tunnel cover goes on the car.
161734 161735 161736

To be honest I'm slightly worried about the structural integrity of the beam now that I've pretty much cut away one side of it. I don't think it's a big load-bearing beam so it should be ok. If you think otherwise, please do let me know.

facultyofmusic

02-04-2022, 04:12 AM

Here's what the mounted handle assembly looks like:
161738 161737

With the bracket, cables, and handle now in place I connected the cables to the clevis and clamp. Before securing everything I made sure to mark the correct length of cable sleeve and cable I wanted with masking tape and cut it to length using an angle-grinder and a cutting wheel. The cable sleeve has a metal coil core so a normal clamp type cutter won't work. With the cables attached I played around with the angle of the mounting plate to ensure the cable comes out of the bracket as straight as possible.
161739 161740 161741

I was pretty happy with the results! The parking brake engages/disengages smoothly and everything seems to be working out. That is, until I noticed the steel strip I used to mount the bracket twisting as I engage the brake. The handle is able to exert quite a lot of force on bracket, causing the bracket to pull and flex. Since the parking brake is the only thing preventing my car from rolling down a hill, I want to make sure it's as solid and secure as possible. The steel strip is strong, but not enough to satisfy my paranoid brain.

I took a pencil and sketched over the truss structure around the mounting bracket to get an impression of where the beams are. With this I then devised a triangle-ish shape that would allow me to make more points of security with the frame. With a piece of steel my buddy had lying around, we cut out a piece in the shape of the template. It's much, MUCH more solid compared to that strip of steel I was using before.
161742 161743

Using the old mounting steel strip I transferred the holes onto the new mounting plate. Instead of using rivets I opted for stainless steel bolts. The results were excellent. I pulled the parking brake as hard as I can and the thing didn't budge a hair!
161744 161745

facultyofmusic

02-04-2022, 04:26 AM

After persuading myself that I'm finally satisfied with the parking brake setup I disassembled everything again... to paint it of course! These components are bare steel and will for sure corrode over time without some kind of protection.

I bought a wire-wheel and let it work over every component of the parking brake handle assembly and mounting bracket. After roughing up the surface I cleaned them with acetone to remove any oil and residue. The paint I used is Rust-oleum's "High Performance Enamel" in black. This stuff is pretty darn strong on a well prepped surface. Not as good as power-coat, but what we need here is protection, not looks. Enamel will do just fine.
161747 161746 161748 161749

I left the components outside to dry for 2 nights before reassembling them together:
161750 161751
Lookin good!

To end it all off I cut out a long hole in the trans tunnel for the e-brake handle to pass through and installed the tunnel cover.
DRUM ROLL PLEASE!

161752 161753 161754 161755

... and that's it! The parking brake is officially done. This part of my build is probably the biggest deviation from FFR's instructions so far but hey, it's freakin sweet.

facultyofmusic

02-05-2022, 08:58 PM

Remember the little cardboard box from post #152 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=481609&viewfull=1#post481609) and #153 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=481613&viewfull=1#post481613)?

I've been looking around my box of scrap metals and there just isn't a sheet of aluminum big enough to replicate the cardboard plan, so I decided to make it from two halves. One half covers the driver side and bottom, another half covers the front and passenger side. There's an advantage to doing it in two halves too. I have make one half easily disassembled to provide access to ignition panel wiring while the other half stays in place to anchor down any loose wiring. Why not?

Using the same dimensions, I draw out the plans on 2 sheets of scrap aluminum that were JUST big enough for each of the two halves, got super lucky on this one.
161877

Then using my humble little vise press-brake I bent the folded the sheets at the designated folding points. One disadvantage here is that my press-brake can only bend a sheet of metal 90 degrees; no more than that. I ended up using a small hammer to form the metal tab. It's a really fun experience actually.
161878

Here's what the two halves look like. They fit together surprisingly well.
161879 161880

I used some masking tape to tape the two halves together an voila! A nice little box!
161881 161882 161883 161884 161885

facultyofmusic

02-07-2022, 02:02 AM

Secured the ignition control panel onto the aluminum box and mounted it in place. The key cylinder wires are the perfect length for it too!
161964 161965 161966 161967

Here's what it looks like with the dash mounted.
161968 161969

John Ibele

02-07-2022, 11:28 AM

Nice work with the aluminum origami - good vision and well carried out. And the press brake vice looks really handy. I hadn't seen that tool. I've gotten a lot out my cheapie HF press brake, but for doing shorter length bends that vice break has real advantages if you don't have a box break. I'm often stuck with how to do that second 'in a corner' bend. Thanks for the tip!

Blitzboy54

02-07-2022, 11:30 AM

facultyofmusic

02-07-2022, 07:24 PM

I love this, what are you planning with the extra switches?

Thanks dude! I'm planning to use this ignition panel to substitute the key cylinder as well as some other toggles that I won't need to touch very often when driving (such as a seat heater if I'll ever have one). I won't have a key for my build and will eventually install a "proximity sensor" that closes a master relay when I'm close enough to the car.

I just like the idea of turning on toggle switches so much more than turning a key. Just my preference :P

More info on the planning for this panel can be found in post #152 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=481609&viewfull=1#post481609).

facultyofmusic

02-08-2022, 03:47 AM

Something I haven't thought much about so far is the hydraulic clutch line and the route to take. I got my Gen 3 Coyote + T56 Magnum package from FFR. The package came with the hydraulic throw-out bearing pre-installed and two -3AN lines coming out of the bell housing.
162004 162005

From reading the other build threads I've gathered the following advice:

Use a clip to ensure the lines don't wiggle into the bell housing. They maybe chewed up by the clutch.
Don't use the 90 degree NPT to inverted-flare fitting that came with the wilwood MC kit. Just use a 1/8in NPT to -3AN fitting.
Use a -3AN bleeder valve on one of the -3AN lines that comes out of the bell housing.

As for the route, I plan to go horizontally from the clutch MC directly towards the firewall side of the driver footwell, put a 90 degree -3AN elbow through the firewall and direct the line downwards where it will meet with the lines from the bell housing.

Component list starting from the 1/8 NPT output of the wilwood MC to the -3AN male input of the clutch slave line.

1/8 NPT to -3AN fitting
-3AN line. 12in long.
-3AN to -3AN 90 degree bulkhead fitting with 2 bulkhead nuts. (to go through the firewall)
-3AN line. 16in long.

For the bleeder I'll be using a regular -3AN bleeder fitting.

As for the sealant, I've got a little paranoia going on. Today when tightening my braided brake lines onto the calipers to get ready for brake bleeding, I found that the -3AN to NPT fitting that goes into the wilwood caliper could still turn with some force. "Some" as in "this feels like it shouldn't turn so easily" kind of "Some". This got me really worried. I applied a good amount of Loctite PST thread sealer and I expected it to be down real tight. I then search up some threads on hydraulic lines leaking and sure enough I found this thread by JohnK discussing some leakages around NPT fittings (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40895-Clutch-hydraulic-leaks-some-answers-and-more-questions). The thread talks about using Permantex thread sealer. Should I redo by brake lines NPT fittings with permantex thread sealer? Would that help?

JohnK

02-08-2022, 10:21 AM

Hey Daniel. Your plan and routing for the clutch hydraulic line sounds solid. I had to play with line lengths a bit to get everything to fit right, and don't recall what I ultimately ended up using but you're definitely in the ballpark with your line lengths. The bulkhead fitting through the firewall side of the bootbox makes installation a bit easier (vs. trying to do it all with one continuous line).

Regarding the sealant. I haven't personally used the Loctite PST sealer but from my quick look at it online it looks like it's a PTFE-based sealer very similar to the Permatex thread sealer. These aren't really "thread lockers" so don't expect it to lock the fitting in place. You still need to tighten the fitting down appropriately. If your caliper fittings aren't leaking and you are able to tighten them down, there's no need to remove them and re-seal with a different sealer.

edwardb

02-08-2022, 08:39 PM

Agree with the advice to not take parts apart where you've used Loctite PST sealant. Either Loctite or Permatex are quality products. Just to be clear, whatever brand you're using is only on the NPT fittings. The -AN fittings don't use sealant on the threads. A very light touch of lubrication on the threads and on the mating surfaces of the flares isn't a bad thing. I typically use whatever fluid is going to be in the lines. For your hydraulic clutch lines, I'd brush with a little bit of brake fluid. I feel like it helps to make sure that final cinch seats them properly.

You have the same engine/bell housing/T56 setup as my Coupe, and pretty sure you have the hydraulic TOB lines coming out of the same opening. Works fine and the lines are kept well clear of the spinning clutch. Wasn't 100% clear on what you're doing with the hydraulic lines. For the pair, you want which one is the upper one (depending on the orientation of the TOB and how it's configured) to be the bleed line. I put a bleeder on it as you said and just tie wrapped it to the other line. It doesn't need to go all the way into the footbox. Just accessible when reaching from the engine compartment when bleeding. Then add whatever flex extension is needed on the other line to get to the MC. I ran mine through the same hole as the rear harness and didn't use a bulkhead connector. Nothing wrong with that. But IMO the fewer connections the better.

For putting angled NPT connections into the brake calipers and MC's, I agree there's a fine line between tight enough and "I can still go one more turn around..." for proper orientation. Why I like to use straight adapters where possible. Here too I agree with the advice you were already given. If in doubt, error on the light touch side and then check for leaks. Probably you'll be OK. Overtightening means you'll be buying new parts. And not always the adapter. As me how I know that.

facultyofmusic

02-10-2022, 06:34 PM

With the help of John and Paul's generous guidance, I ordered the parts from summit racing and they arrived the next day. I don't know what magic summit racing pulls but I swear the stuff got to my door within 12 hours of me pressing the checkout button. Anyway... The implementation is exactly according to plan:
162204 162205 162206 162207
Dare I say the bulkhead through the firewall looks CLEAN! Inside the footbox I could have gotten away with a 11in line instead of 12in, but that's all fine really.

It wasn't until I tried attaching the bleeder value to the bleeder line did I realize that... THE LINES AND FITTINGS ARE -4AN, NOT -3AN! I cursed out loud in the middle of the night in my garage. It's no biggie, I'll buy some -3AN to -4AN conversion fittings. I don't like the fact that I'm paying good dinner money for what is an additional potential point of leakage. I'm sure it'll be fine if I just tighten everything down.

facultyofmusic

02-11-2022, 06:41 PM

In post #173 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=482793&viewfull=1#post482793) I talked about my worries with the fittings still able to turn with some force. With reassurance from John and Paul, I called up my buddy and we bled the brakes. I'm happy to announce that the pedals are now super firm with nothing leaking! After bleeding the brakes I asked by buddy to push on that brake pedal as hard as he could while I monitor the fitting in question. Nothing came out of it at all. :)
162283

TBull

02-12-2022, 03:47 PM

Sounds like you got it. Well done. I know that's a good feeling.

facultyofmusic

02-14-2022, 02:29 AM

In post #156 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build&p=481714&viewfull=1#post481714) I wrote about the heat insulation padding I installed around the lower firewall areas. I was pretty happy with them at the time, but as time went on I realized just how fragile they were. One sharp-ish edge grazing over them and the foil surface may scratch or peel. I grew unsatisfied with them, and so I decided to make it better.

... but WHY more heat insulation? This is a totally subjective topic and I've seem answers ranging from "it never gets hot enough to annoy anyone" to "I can't freaking stand it". AFAIK, heat insulation is only a part of the equation. Making the foot-box air-tight from the other side of the firewall is crucial to ensuring the engine bay hot air doesn't get in. Some also did a pass-through vent to supply ambient temperature air from the front of the vehicle. I've chosen to do heat insulation for the following reasons:

I have sweaty feet (trust me I hate it) and it only takes a little heat to have it start sweating.
The Californian sun is a ruthless ball of sun burns. With black carpet it's just gonna toast.
I want to install as little "stuff" inside the foot box as possible to give myself maximum foot space. Right now all I have is sound dampening and I don't plan to add more than that and carpet.

I purchased some Thermo-Tec Cool-It Mat to add on top of the existing layer of insulation. The mat is stitched strong metal material on one side, foil on the other, with silica wool sandwiched in-between. It's exactly what I need (and it made my order expensive enough to qualify for free shipping from Summit Racing LOL).
162505 162504

I took the existing patches of insulation and glued it to the shiny side of the mat with 3M Super77 adhesive spray and cut out the mat in the exact same shape. The end result is pretty much what I had before, but now with a stronger and even more insulating layer.
162507 162506

I lined the sides with heat-reflective foil tape. The new mat is both stronger and looks cooler too!
162508

Here are the pads applied to the foot-boxes. I used the remaining mat to shield my brake and fuel lines from the heat as well. Honestly, probably not needed... but hey why not. It also looks like my foot-boxes have invisibility cloaks on. :P
162509 162510 162511 162512

Whew! Now I'm MUCH more confident about my heat insulation situation. It only took a little bit of time and the end result is definitely worth it.

Fedex has informed me that another box from FFR will be arriving soon. Just on time! Can't wait to finish up the gas pedal and seal up the firewall for good.

facultyofmusic

02-17-2022, 01:31 AM

The coyote install kit is here! Time for the first thing on the list: Accelerator Pedal. Let me just preface this with that it was a lot more difficult than I expected, mainly because the coyote pedal is a lot bigger than the footbox has room for. A lot of grinding and shaving is required. Here we go.

Based on the FFR instructions, I initially cut / shaved my pedal to look like this:
162675 162676

Here the webbing structure around the mounting holes interfere with the drive shaft. I've found other build threads to also mention this. I wanted to confirm for myself, and indeed it does. The pedal mount was actually a pretty good template of how much to cut off, so I traced it out make sure the pedal doesn't stick out from the mount:
162677 162678 162679

At this point I thought the pedal must fit, so I attached the pedal to the mount and tried to install it. Honestly, I'm surprised that I tried as hard as I did. No matter what I did I could NOT figure out a way to maneuver the assembly in place. I took it apart, installed the mount first, and then saw what was wrong. First thing: It's actually not that hard to install the pedal with the mount already secured in place. Second thing, the footbox tubes will interfere with the side and front casing of the pedal base. I used a blue marker to mark out the parts that needed additional grinding/shaving:
162680 162681

The area between the two blue lines need to shaved down because it interferes with the firewall support tubing. The front of the base, already ground off in the picture, interferes with a cross member in front of the pedals. Both areas need to be shaven. The next trouble came when I was shaving it down. I went just a little too far and actually exposed the rotating bearing section of the pedal! If when you're shaving your pedal and you see red, then you've reached it. Stop, don't keep going. I backed off and smoothed out the remaining area within the blue lines. I made sure to seal the opening off with a huge piece of duct tape and pressed it real well. I don't want water or dust to get in there.
162682 162683 162684

facultyofmusic

02-17-2022, 01:57 AM

With all these parts shaved, the pedal finally sat in place. It's still tight, but it's sitting there without hitting anything else.
162685 162686

I don't know what you raised an eyebrow when you saw the two above pictures, but I certainly did when I saw it in real life. The throttle pedal sits pretty far back compared to the brake pedal. I DON'T need them to be level, but it shouldn't be THAT far back. I already closed shop for today, but I think I'll go pad the bottom mount point with a washer or something. I also want to install a pedal stopper behind the pedal itself. Not that I'll ever smash that throttle pedal down, but the pedal just seems too floaty to me right now. Luckily the bottom mounting bolt of the pedal bracket is quite literally right behind the pedal arm, perfectly aligned. The distance is almost there too:
162687 162688

My plan is to use a coupler and a regular nut to make an adjustable pedal stop. On the other end of the coupler I'll put a big fender washer with padding material so the pedal arm has a soft landing. Here's the plan drawn out on paper.
162691

Time for a trip to ace hardware.

460.465USMC

02-17-2022, 10:03 PM

facultyofmusic

02-18-2022, 02:37 AM

Hi Danny. Looks like you came up with a config. that works for you. I struggled with the accelerator mount and really tried my best to use the F5 supplied pedal bracket, but wasn't clever enough to make it work for me. Ending up making my own bracket, primarily due to clearance issues at the top where the DBW cable plugs in. Mucho better fit. If you get really bored and have five minutes to waste, you can check it out here (first link is me fiddling with the pedal; second one is the home made bracket):

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 1) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Front-Running-Lights-LED-Conversion-Question&p=450728&viewfull=1#post450728)

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 2) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Front-Running-Lights-LED-Conversion-Question&p=451108&viewfull=1#post451108)

Yeah the throttle pedal ended up being SO much more work than I thought. Perhaps it's minute manufacturing differences, but your pedal sat a lot higher in your pictures than mine did before shaving and grinding. I suppose I got a little lucky here. The DBW cable has JUST enough space to click in.

Although to be completely honest, in hindsight I wish I took the route of making a custom pedal mount just like yours instead of trying to shave the pedal assembly and shoehorn it into place. Not only does your custom spacer look awesome, it also looks like it has much, much more room to work with. In the process of making my pedal fit I ground into the pedal electronics housing itself. Even now I'm wondering if I should just purchase a new pedal and start over. I probably won't change mine now that I finally got it to work, but just thinking about that exposed bearing makes my face scrunch up towards the middle.

To future builders reading this thread: Go with a custom spacer like the one on Chris (460.465USMC), Paul (edwardb), or John (JohnK)'s build. It's worth it.

facultyofmusic

02-18-2022, 03:21 AM

Went to the local hardware store today to get some rubber table-leg anti-slip pads, some 1/4" 20 button head screws, and nuts. The anti-slip pads turned out perfect for the job; no couplers required! I've set the stopper distance to just where the pedal goes full "pedal to the metal". If needed I'll be able to adjust it before I close up my foot-box.
162733 162734 162735

I also made a clutch pedal stop using a strip of steel. I bent it is such a way that it has 2-side contact with one of the foot-box cross members, and bent the extension portion by ~20degrees to have it be parallel to the clutch pedal arm angle when it's depressed (sorry I swear it makes more sense with the pictures below). The stopper itself uses the same mechanism as the one above.
162736 162737 162738 162739

I will be disassembling the clutch pedal stopper in the next few days to sand and paint them so I'll have more pictures then! Something I'm worried about though, is the adjustability of these stoppers once the side panels are installed the sealed. I can make a custom angled wrench to reach behind to the nuts, but I think a better idea is to use 1/4" 20 rivnuts and wing nuts so that the stoppers are fully adjustable by hand. I'll have plenty of time before I seal up the foot-box. :)

Fman

02-18-2022, 08:56 PM

edwardb

02-18-2022, 10:16 PM

Just a heads up my clutch pedal requires full throw to the firewall to get enough clutch engagement and not be too far in front of the brake pedal. I am running a hydraulic clutch with Forte slave cylinder. Maybe mine is not the norm but wanted to make you aware you could need full throw of the pedal.

This is a very good point. Just wanted to say (1) I agree completely, and (2) that's what you want anyway. Physics are at work here. The more pedal throw you have, the lighter the pedal effort is going to be. The TOB has to move a certain amount no matter what. I've been very careful on my builds to make sure the clutch pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get full clutch actuation with the least pedal. Requires the proper match between the master and slave cylinders. If you're stopping the clutch pedal well above the floor and getting full actuation, you're working with a heavier pedal than necessary.

Editorial comment: Don't quite get the point of the throttle pedal stop. The Ford DBW module has it's own stop. If you're thinking of it being a sort of governor for the driver, you may want to re-think how you're driving the car. You'll find with the Coyote it's very responsive. It only takes pressure on the pedal to go from idle to launch. Even in normal driving, including aggressively, the main sense is pressure on the pedal. You'll find out very quickly that pushing it to the floor (stopped or not) is generally way too aggressive for street driving and depending on the gear, conditions, etc. will often break the back tires loose. Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears.

facultyofmusic

02-19-2022, 01:54 PM

This is a very good point. Just wanted to say (1) I agree completely, and (2) that's what you want anyway. Physics are at work here. The more pedal throw you have, the lighter the pedal effort is going to be. The TOB has to move a certain amount no matter what. I've been very careful on my builds to make sure the clutch pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get full clutch actuation with the least pedal. Requires the proper match between the master and slave cylinders. If you're stopping the clutch pedal well above the floor and getting full actuation, you're working with a heavier pedal than necessary.

The physics makes total sense, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think adjusting pedal effort is possible without swapping out the master/slave cylinders at this point. So whatever bite point and engagement region I get is what I'll have to live with. The clutch pedal stop is mainly there to provide a "soft but firm" stop instead of a "grinding and scraping the foot box hardware" stop. I do hope, though, that the pedal doesn't have to go too far before the clutch fully disengage. My legs aren't very long :rolleyes:

Editorial comment: Don't quite get the point of the throttle pedal stop. The Ford DBW module has its own stop. If you're thinking of it being a sort of governor for the driver, you may want to re-think how you're driving the car. You'll find with the Coyote it's very responsive. It only takes pressure on the pedal to go from idle to launch. Even in normal driving, including aggressively, the main sense is pressure on the pedal. You'll find out very quickly that pushing it to the floor (stopped or not) is generally way too aggressive for street driving and depending on the gear, conditions, etc. will often break the back tires loose. Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears.

"Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears." is exactly right Paul, and I've added a "driver's governor" just in case. TBH, I'm not so sure it will ever be useful either. It's there just in case one day I'll think "If there's a way to limit throttle that'll be great". It's easy to add it now than later than the foot-box is sealed, so I'm adding it now. The hope is I'll never really have to use it. If I want to drive an easy car, I should go drive something else.

facultyofmusic

02-19-2022, 02:13 PM

While attempting to install the foot-box firewall, I noticed that the pedal surface was too big and collides with the firewall aluminum.
162799 162800

The pedal needs to fully clear chassis aluminum along its full degree of travel, so I'll have to grind it down. The pedal itself is pretty darn stiff so that's good. It also has a good amount of metal. I'm not worried about it coming apart.
162801 162802

Fitting it back into the foot-box, it now clears the aluminum panels, but I think I need to grind it just a bit more to account for carpeting. I **REALLY** don't want the throttle pedal to get stuck in the middle of driving. I marked the new target shape with black marker for reference. It's late in the day, I'll continue grinding tomorrow or else I'll wake up the neighbours. :rolleyes:
162803 162804

After trimming the pedal down to the outline of the pedal mount, I thought it would clear the steering shaft FOR SURE by now. Alas, all that glitters is not gold, just more metal shreds on the workshop floor. The issue is that while the pedal mount clears the steering shaft, the extra thickness of the pedal plus the large button-head bolt does not:
162797 162798

Luckily I have some 1/4-20 button head bolts with smaller heads lying around the shop. I plan to trim down the mounting point to about half of its current thickness as well as use the smaller head bolt. That should clear it.

edwardb

02-19-2022, 07:04 PM

The physics makes total sense, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think adjusting pedal effort is possible without swapping out the master/slave cylinders at this point. So whatever bite point and engagement region I get is what I'll have to live with. The clutch pedal stop is mainly there to provide a "soft but firm" stop instead of a "grinding and scraping the foot box hardware" stop. I do hope, though, that the pedal doesn't have to go too far before the clutch fully disengage. My legs aren't very long :rolleyes:

Correct. To change the throw requires a different master cylinder ID. Typically the slave is only available in one size. For example, my 20th Anniversary Roadster ended up with a Wilwood 1 inch MC and 7/8 inch slave cylinder. As I recall, Forte supplied a 1.25 inch MC at the time. The 1 inch one (about $70) lengthened the throw and reduced the effort. I'm not suggesting changing anything. But again my point was if you're stopping way short your effort is higher than it needs to be. It's all theory now. Wait until you've driven for a while in stop and go traffic.

"Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears." is exactly right Paul, and I've added a "driver's governor" just in case. TBH, I'm not so sure it will ever be useful either. It's there just in case one day I'll think "If there's a way to limit throttle that'll be great". It's easy to add it now than later than the foot-box is sealed, so I'm adding it now. The hope is I'll never really have to use it. If I want to drive an easy car, I should go drive something else.

As long as it's easy enough to adjust, not hurting anything. It will be necessary to hit WOT (wide open throttle) during custom tuning. Dyno or street. And the Gen 3 Coyote absolutely requires a custom tune. But once you start driving, you'll find that WOT is a rare if ever event for street driving and you won't need a stop to tell you that. In any gear but first, WOT is loud, angry, and nearly instantly illegal. And for the record, driven with care and reasonable saneness, these aren't hard cars to drive. I think you'll be surprised how nice it drives if you haven't had the chance already.

facultyofmusic

02-20-2022, 02:20 AM

But once you start driving, you'll find that WOT is a rare if ever event for street driving and you won't need a stop to tell you that. In any gear but first, WOT is loud, angry, and nearly instantly illegal. And for the record, driven with care and reasonable saneness, these aren't hard cars to drive. I think you'll be surprised how nice it drives if you haven't had the chance already.

Haha, sometimes I think about this car that I'm building and I can't help but be a little terrified of what it can do. I've driven cars of a similar power before (C7 corvette) but never on a track. I catch myself having that cheeky grin on my face and I know I'm about to try something dumb unless I pull myself back. I look at my unfinished build and I say to myself "Daniel you're gonna get into so much trouble with this thing..." As for driving one of these, unfortunately I haven't. One of the first pieces of instruction on the FFR build manual is "Don't let your friend drive your car." ... so I assume it applies to anyone who I come across with a Mk4 roadster :P. I visited Russ Thompson's shop a while back and saw his roadster. I had to try REALLY hard to not bring it up lol!

Once I get this car to a road drivable state, I plan to go to a bunch of autocross courses to understand its handing characteristics as well as its limits. Too much caution is annoying sometimes, but at least it keeps me alive. :rolleyes:

facultyofmusic

02-20-2022, 02:44 AM

As planned in post #188 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Dream-Roadster-Build-Gen-3-Coyote-Throttle-Pedal&p=484071&viewfull=1#post484071), I ground the upper mounting point to about half it's thickness. I was a little worried that it would severely compromise its structural integrity but ended up being pleasantly surprised at how strong the material is. There is a metal bushing inside the plastic to help out with the compression resistance as well.
162827 162828 162829

It now clears the steering shaft by about 1/16". Good enough for me!
162830 162831

I trimmed the pedal again, this time down to the black line marked from last update. I'm now much more comfortable with the amount of space it has on the right.
162832 162833

I swapped the rear nut of the pedal stop with a rivnut. Now I only need one nut to adjust the stop height. I also added a kind reminder for myself just below the stop so I don't end up double-guessing the side of the nut back there. Hehe.
162835 162834

And here's the final pedal arrangement! I can finally seal up the fire-wall! I'm giving myself a day to think if there's anything else I need to do before sealing it up for good.
162836

facultyofmusic

02-21-2022, 04:20 AM

I wanted to keep the pedal posts together so I didn't document the misc things I've been doing on the side. Small thing here and there, but they all add up :)

About a month ago I made the decision to paint all under-car exposed panels black. The first reason being I want some protection on the panel surfaces facing the seasonal elements. The second reason being that I want the car to look great from the bottom, just as it should from any angle, even the parts that won't be seen normally. I suppose it's a silly pride thing, but there are DEFINITELY build threads with panel treatment better than I'll ever do so.... why not. :rolleyes: I've done a fair bit of research on painting on aluminum panels. In a previous post I discussed painting the cockpit aluminum and was cautioned against it due to aluminum metal's properties. In conclusion: once sanded and cleaned properly, apply a self-etching primer and the paint on top of that should stick. I tested it on a small piece of aluminum and the results are pretty good.
162902 162899 162900 162901

I have limited space in the backyard, so every morning I sand, clean, and coat just enough panels to fit on my backyard table. In the afternoon the primer will be dry and I apply a layer of paint. It only takes about 10mins out of each day. I need to stand up and stretch from sitting all day anyway.
162903

The sides that will be covered with carpet will be fully plastered with sound dampening material before carpet install, so no need to paint those sides. There are some panels that I've already installed and riveted though. I'll figure out how to do those down the line.

I'm currently debating whether or not I should coat the trans tunnel from the underside. I bought 3 kinds of spray-on paint/coating to play around with: enamel, rubberized undercoating, and FlexSeal. Test results show enamel sticking extremely well, but the layer is thin. The rubberized undercoating literally comes off with the slight rub of a finger, so I'm staying away from that. FlexSeal stuck onto the aluminum surprisingly well (I thought it would just peel off). It's also thick and rubbery, so I might as that for the trans tunnel. I tested FlexSeal on both sanded and unsanded aluminum. It doesn't make much of a difference. I also tried FlexSeal on top of self-etching primer. It actually came off EASIER compared to just aluminum. Interesting.
162904 162905

If I am to paint the trans tunnel I'll have to remove the parking brake assembly. It'll be a hassle but I think it'll be worth it in the end. When inspecting the bottom of the frame I also noted some rust spots already forming along some cracks, so I think coating the underbody will be a good idea in general.
162906 162907 162908

I'm primarily worried about the trans tunnel because it will be a pain to paint after the engine gets installed, so I want to make sure to do that part right. I can always coat the other easier parts later.

facultyofmusic

02-22-2022, 03:03 PM

Getting started on power steering. At the beginning of this build I opted for a manual steering rack because I thought I couldn't need a powered one, but after reading advices to get power steering time and time again, I've decided to switch over. The improved caster and center-tracking will be worth it IMO.

What I want to do, actually, is to drive the car with manual rack for a bit before switching to a powered one, JUST so I see for myself what the difference is like. I'll have the pump installed before dropping the engine in, but won't switch out the rack until later. The rack is on back order anyway.

The kit I'm using is the FFR provided KRC kit. It comes with an integrated pump and reservoir as well as replacement pulleys to drive it. The bracket went on pretty easily. What I'm having trouble with is the belt. It just seems WAY too short. I tilted my reservoir severely out of alignment, have the pulleys literally rubbing against each other, and it STILL impossible to put on.
162999

I found this thread talking about a similar issue (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?39637-KRC-Power-Steering-Pump-Fit-issue-need-help-please), but there's been no updates on it. I emailed FFR with the above picture and description asking if I got the incorrect belt or something. I hope to hear back soon.

JohnK

02-22-2022, 03:10 PM

It's pretty short but it will fit. Get it all the way on one pulley before trying to get it on the other one. In your photo, it's only part way on the PS pump pulley which is preventing it from slipping over the water pump pulley.

460.465USMC

02-22-2022, 04:26 PM

Times two on what JohnK said. Here's what it will look like once you have the belt installed and tensioned.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163004&d=1645565092

edwardb

02-22-2022, 04:42 PM

Times three. Another picture with it assembled for my Coupe. It's close getting it over the pullies. But then OK.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_0814.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/186cc666-68d0-4881-b53c-af005ffe3552/p/a45ce168-d12b-448a-9242-99750bd288c6)

You said you emailed FF with questions. That's fine. Just a suggestion though. This is a standard KRC kit for the Coyote. You'd probably get better (and faster...) response from KRC. I've had to contact their customer support several times over the years. They were very helpful and of course really know their products.

Can't help but comment about your plan to drive the car in manual steering mode then decide if you really need power steering. How will you know the difference unless you remove/replace the rack? Then go back and install the manual setup if you don't like the PS. Really? You've already spent north of $1K for the PS setup. Why not finish it now? The rack is way easier to install at this stage versus in a completed car. Plus the front end alignment is different so you'd have to redo that as well. I get it FF is backordered on the PS rack. But you can literally build the entire chassis (e.g. everything...) without the rack installed. Hard to believe they wouldn't have the rack by then. Push comes to shove, a Fox body PS rack from your local parts store is <$200 without a core. Unfortunately though won't have the rack spacers FF includes with theirs that provides the best geometry.

Jeff Kleiner

02-22-2022, 06:59 PM

X4. You just walk it on.

Jeff

facultyofmusic

02-22-2022, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the swift reply guys! I tried walking it on just just couldn't do it with the reservoir attached so I detached it, walked the belt on, and now I'm trying darn hardest to bolt it in. With the belt on, I just couldn't get the reservoir to rotate enough to clear that bump on the engine. I've even tried using my floor jack to provide some extra rotating torque, but it just won't budge.
163011

Closer look at the bump:
163012

I've verified that without the belt on I can rotate the reservoir in place to clear that bump. With the belt on... no clue how. Is there a trick that can employ here to tension it even more? Out of curiosity, I wonder what that bump is for anyway. A part of the oil gallery?

EDIT:
I received an email from Dan Golub of FFR and he confirmed that it does look a bit too far off. He recommended that I email KRC about it, so I did.

JohnK

02-23-2022, 12:17 PM

It's possible that you just got a belt that was manufactured on the short side. I would definitely not be applying additional force to the pump or reservoir to further tighten the belt - that's just asking for expensive heartache IMO.

One further comment to Edwardb's comments on the PS rack. As you know, one of the main benefits of going with power steering is the ability to run additional caster. For many people (myself included) this entailed trimming the front upper control arm rearward adjusting sleeves to provide enough adjustability to get to that caster number. I would *strongly* advise doing that mod now if you haven't already vs. trying to do it later on. But to the point of being able to compare PS vs. MS, unless you were to also re-align the car with different caster numbers you're not going to get a "fair" comparison of the overall benefit of power steering. All in all, I would echo the sentiment to just go with PS now.

Edit: One last note on the KRC power steering setup. You can adjust the amount of assist by replacing the high pressure outlet fitting with a different size orifice. The fitting that comes with the pump is the middle of the range (number 7, IIRC). Many people replace that fitting with the smallest that KRC offers (#4) to dial the amount of assist down to the minimum, which is still more than enough for a car this light. If your concern is that the steering will feel over-assisted with power steering, I can say that with the smallest orifice it does not.

facultyofmusic

02-23-2022, 04:11 PM

But to the point of being able to compare PS vs. MS, unless you were to also re-align the car with different caster numbers you're not going to get a "fair" comparison of the overall benefit of power steering. All in all, I would echo the sentiment to just go with PS now.

Edit: One last note on the KRC power steering setup. You can adjust the amount of assist by replacing the high pressure outlet fitting with a different size orifice. The fitting that comes with the pump is the middle of the range (number 7, IIRC). Many people replace that fitting with the smallest that KRC offers (#4) to dial the amount of assist down to the minimum, which is still more than enough for a car this light. If your concern is that the steering will feel over-assisted with power steering, I can say that with the smallest orifice it does not.

Can't help but comment about your plan to drive the car in manual steering mode then decide if you really need power steering. How will you know the difference unless you remove/replace the rack? Then go back and install the manual setup if you don't like the PS. Really? You've already spent north of $1K for the PS setup. Why not finish it now? The rack is way easier to install at this stage versus in a completed car. Plus the front end alignment is different so you'd have to redo that as well. I get it FF is backordered on the PS rack. But you can literally build the entire chassis (e.g. everything...) without the rack installed. Hard to believe they wouldn't have the rack by then. Push comes to shove, a Fox body PS rack from your local parts store is <$200 without a core. Unfortunately though won't have the rack spacers FF includes with theirs that provides the best geometry.

Thanks for the heads up Paul and John. My decision to try it with a manual rack and then switch it over to the powered one was based on the perceived ease of "switching" it. After reading the instructions for power steering install it didn't seem to be that difficult. Unbolt the manual rack, pop in the powered one, connect the hoses, and that's it! or at least that's how it played out in my head anyway. I did think about alignment, but it was another one of those things that didn't "sound" so difficult. So at the end the conclusion was: "I already have the manual rack in, why not see how it drives with a manual rack? Just pop the powered one in later."

Based on the responses above, it sounds like switching it over won't be so simple. TBH I've never done alignment before. I just imagined it to be a bunch of strings and guides to make sure things are parallel and make sure the suspension geometry is what the manual says it should be. It's almost guaranteed that I'm underestimating this task. I admit a non-negligible part of this is just my curiosity, but I could just meet up with someone who built their roadster with a manual rack one day and try it out that way...

I've already trimmed the UCA sleeves in anticipation for PS. Looks like the best way forward is to finish it now as Paul said. Thanks for the advice everyone!

facultyofmusic

02-24-2022, 01:48 AM

I heard back from Norm of KRC Power. I confirmed that the belt has the correct part number (4060267). Belt No. 4060267 is supposed to be 26.7" in length. I didn't have an accurate way of measuring the belt, but from what I could measure it was around that ball park. I also verified that I had the right spacers in the right location. In conclusion, it's just an unfortunate situation where the belt may have been a little too short, the reservoir may have been just a little too far to the left, and that damn bump on the engine head maybe just a little bigger than usual. Regardless, the interference was REALLY, REALLY small. I understand how this can result from a few compounded errors within tolerance of each component.

Seeing there wasn't anything that I did wrong as far as I could tell, I decided the best way forward was to modify the bracket to bring the reservoir pivot point a bit closer to the driver side by 1/8". That, in turn, should allow the top of the reservoir to rotate and clear the bump. I took a file and filed the 3 holes of the bracket in the opposite direction of movement, ground down the washers a little to allow the extra bias, and mounted the bracket.
163060 163061

With the bracket moved by ~1/8", I successfully mounted the pump and reservoir. Unlike before reservoir could now sit fully against the bracket without grinding on the bump. There's now about an 1/32" gap between the reservoir and the bump. The reservoir itself is still sitting counter-clockwise from the vertical, but I'm completely okay with that.
163062 163063

The pump is on! I don't think there's anything else I want to attach to the engine before I drop it back in. Things I'll install after the engine goes back in are:

Alternator (may bump into my brake lines during install)
Oil filter (generally in the way when the engine is in mid air)
Headers (will be installed when the engine is just above the mounts)

A big thank you to everyone that helped me out with this! :D

facultyofmusic

02-27-2022, 04:11 AM

Over the past few days I've been playing around with the dash. TBH I still can't decide on the layout I want. I love the look of the competition dash, but I also the practicality of the street dash. I've been combing through dozens of threads on dash ideas (especially this one (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32911-requesting-pictures-of-dashes)) and so far I've come up with something like this (please excuse the terrible photoshop, I borrowed the picture from this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32911-requesting-pictures-of-dashes&p=375084&viewfull=1#post375084) and just moved stuff around):
163144

It's got the 3-gauges behind the wheel like the competition dash, but I also have both tach and speedo in sight. Best of both words or the b*****d child of two unfortunate ideas? What I don't like is how the center section looks a little empty. I believe adding a larger glovebox would help as well as a plaque. I don't want to add any switch that I can't easily reach when driving. Passenger creature comfort? That's a tomorrow problem for a tomorrow Daniel. Haha. With all honesty I see myself debating about this dash layout for MONTHS. What I'll do now is wire it in such a way that doesn't make anything final so I can change it later when I finally come up with something I'm happy with.

Something less ambiguous: The dash is *FLOPPY*. Pulling/pushing the light dimmer switch in and out shakes the whole dash around and the whole thing looks super flimsy. Yes, it's just a thin sheet of aluminum, but I sure wish it doesn't look that way. I decided to add dashboard reinforcements to improve the "floppiness".

There are many threads on this topic. Based on what I've gathered, here are the few key points / goals:

The dashboard aluminum is longer than the body curve. Identify where the bend happens by pre-fitting it onto the body (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31954-Help-with-dash-installation&p=364828&viewfull=1#post364828) (which I did).
Make the dashboard easily removable for maintenance. Removable without taking off the body.
Tip from Jeff (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36859-dash-mounting-question&p=421739&viewfull=1#post421739): Don't drill the center hole until the body is painted! Or else everyone's gonna see that you have an off-center "center hole".
Make bottom support panels to add extra rigidity to the dash like the one in this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31954-Help-with-dash-installation&p=364861&viewfull=1#post364861).

P.S. Please excuse the unorganized mosaic of sound dampening material all over the dash aluminum. I had pieces left over and didn't know where else to put it... :rolleyes:

I started by making bottom-support panels using left-over aluminum sheets I had laying around:
163146 163145 163147
Right now I only made one for the passenger side. Later on I realized the two smaller supports on the driver side isn't enough to prevent the "flop", so I'll make a driver side one too.

At the end of the dash near the door hinges, the dashboard bends and curves under the body. I test fitted this with the body and identified where the flat part of the "dash ends". At the tip of the aluminum are 90 degree bends that attach to the frame at a 45 degree angle, which I'll refer to as dash-tabs.
163150 163151

Using steel strips I made dash-end mounts to make sure the dash is solid before the bend. This ensures the flat part of the dash STAYS flat, unaffected by the twist and bends.
163148 163149

I made some dash-tab mounts that are removable without screws. It's essentially a steel strip with a 45 degree slot cut into it. The 45 degree dash-tabs can be inserted into the slots which will hold it in place. To remove the dash, simple push it out of the slots.
163152 163153

With these changes the sides of the dash are rock solid and removable. The center is still floppy, however. I'll come up with a plan for that next. Perhaps make more dash-end mounts that sit near the center of the dash.

facultyofmusic

02-28-2022, 03:19 AM

Took the chance of a free Sunday to coat the trans tunnel as well as parts of the under-body aluminum. Woke up super early to do this because the last time I did it in the evening the fumes leaked into the house and TVOC (total volatile organic compounds, measure of air quality) JUMPED to unhealthy levels in the night. This time I'm doing it early so I have time to keep the garage open and point the shop fan at it full blast.

Didn't have much chance for pictures during setup, but here are some results:
163203 163202 163204

TBH it doesn't look nearly as good as I had hoped. I am, however, satisfied with the results. I'm much less worried about rust and corrosion in the trans tunnel area. I'll trim and scrape the places with excess sealant. Overall, a good days work. It's probably not that much improvement all things considered, but at least now I know my brain won't keep bugging me about my bare trans tunnel after the engine is in place.

Fman

02-28-2022, 09:54 AM

egchewy79

02-28-2022, 10:32 AM

the trans tunnel is aluminum, so rusting is not going to be an issue. I don't think many coat the inside of the tunnel for that reason. sound deadening is a separate issue.
might be too late, but most find it easier to cover the dash first before bending the ends. Not sure what your plans are for the dash face. also, most dashes I've seen just need to be bent it in one plane. looks like you're bending and twisting the ends.

facultyofmusic

02-28-2022, 12:16 PM

FOM, what are you trying to accomplish by coating the inside of your trans tunnel? Heat reduction? Just a suggestion, go out buy a roll of thermo tech and peel and stick it on. No mess or toxic fumes to breathe and will do the task of heat and noise reduction. You can also it inside the top cover piece as well, I should also add the trans tunnel does not get that hot to begin with, nothing in comparison to the firewall area. One other tip, when you install your engine/trans slide the drive shaft in when transmission is coming through the tunnel area. You will have much more space to work with, we did this on a friends build and it was much easier doing it this way then trying to squeeze it in once the transmission is fully pushed in and mounts are installed.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermo-Tec-14620-Heat-Sound-Suppressor/dp/B004PILLZG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2PPFMV2L7CDKN&keywords=thermo+tec+heat+barrier&qid=1646060149&s=automotive&sprefix=thermo+tec+heat+barrier%2Cautomotive%2C255&sr=1-5

Thanks for the question Fman. Honestly, I didn't have many compelling reasons. Heat and sound dampening weren't in the list of reasons either due to exactly what you said. I have rolls of sound dampeners waiting to be installed and I'm frankly not worried at all about any heat that can go into the trans tunnel. The decision was made after considering the following:

I had relocated many things many times in the trans tunnel. Parking brake, rear harness mounting tabs, parking brake cable brackets, etc. This left a lot of exposed steel surfaces and holes. The aluminum won't rust, but the steel will. Other parts of the body with rusting steel can be taken care of down the road, but not the trans tunnel cuz the trans will be in the way.

I cut out a huge hole when I needed to cut off the factory default e-brake mounting bracket and it looks horrible. The edge of the hole is in a weird angle such that sanding / grinding down the edge risks damaging the powder-coated frame (in fact I did accidentally scrape off some power-coat), so I never really cleaned that part up. The thick rubbery consistency of flex seal helped cover that up.

I wanted the whole chassis to look black from the bottom (except the engine bay). I could either use epoxy paint or the rubber sealant. From my own testing the rubber sealant was a lot tougher than the paint.

Unfortunately when I tested the rubber sealant on spare pieces of aluminum I didn't have them standing vertically, so when it dried it looked great. Looking at my pictures above... yeah... it doesn't look great at all due to the drip lines. It looks like a slimy mess.

facultyofmusic

02-28-2022, 12:30 PM

... most find it easier to cover the dash first before bending the ends. Not sure what your plans are for the dash face. also, most dashes I've seen just need to be bent it in one plane. looks like you're bending and twisting the ends.

The reason why I haven't covered the dash yet is because I haven't yet decided on the dash layout. I'm still playing around with a bunch of ideas and I just can't seem to decide on any of them! I've already read that how the dash is mounted can affect where to locate certain dash components. In my mind there are 2 phases to working on the dash: Mounting the dash itself, and working on dash contents. Currently I'm on the former one.

As for bending and twisting the ends, I wanted the end of the dash to sit flush with the frame with full contact. I couldn't see how that was possible without employing some upwards twisting bend. Without twisting the end of the dash would stab into the horizontal box tube behind the dash. Twisting the dash also allows the top of the dash to continue from the bend line toward the door hinges at a 45 degree angle just like the body itself, while also allowing the bottom of the dash to twist out of the way.

egchewy79

02-28-2022, 01:49 PM

Most pics that I've seen just have one single gentle bend of the dash ends, tucking the very end behind the door hinge. wrapping a prebent dash might be interesting...

John Ibele

02-28-2022, 02:59 PM

I think you'll like the stiffeners under the dash, they make for a much sturdier feel. Yours look good but with just a few more bends will be much stiffer. Yours will have a tendency to buckle when the dash is pushed on.

Here's a view of the same basic stiffener, but with some side bends added. To buckle the way your stiffeners will have a tendency to, this side portion would have to either have to collapse in compression, or crack open in tension ... much more force required to do that.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743441963_096e3c78a4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kj2pqp)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kj2pqp) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I also, like others, did a simple bend at the end of the dash, and so far it looks like it will both look and fit just fine. It rests on the top of the 2x2 frame member, and tucks in behind the door hinge. I think it will look 'right' when the body is on, and the dash disappears under the body as it gets closer to the door. Looked for a picture in my gallery but couldn't fine one. Can take a photo and send tonight if you'd like ... just want to make sure your dash alignment is right, before you're further committed.

Barring any problem there, it looks like you're down the road with the twist and bend approach, and are happy with it; good deal.

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 04:30 AM

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 04:37 AM

A small but exciting update: After throughly checking all fittings and connections, we decided it's time to test the fuel system for real. Doing will will allow me to finally seal up the trunk aluminum panels with confidence. I went to the gas station with my 5 gallon gas tank and filled it up completely. I COMPLETELY underestimated how heavy 5 gallons of fuel was! Lugging it back onto the car wasn't too difficult, but holding it high enough and aiming the nozzle into the filler tube took some sweat. LOL!

With 5 gallons of gas in the tank I jerry-rigged two 1-pin connectors that allows me to power the fuel pump by connecting it to the battery. Plugged it in with great anticipation and viola! 65PSI at the regulator and no leaks to be found! I left the system running for 30mins just so I can make sure there REALLY aren't any leaks. So far so good.
163252

One step closer to that first start!

John Ibele

03-02-2022, 11:08 AM

John that's brilliant! Can't believe I didn't think of that. The FFR provided dash supports are quite flimsy, but bent like that they will indeed be much more rigid.

I actually just wanted to give you an excuse to pull out that nifty vise press-brake of yours. Man, I like that thing. Let me know if it works as well as it seems it should.

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 01:52 PM

It's been one night since I've put gas in the tank. This morning I woke up, walked into the garage, and immediately noticed the smell of gasoline. Looks like the EVAP system of my car isn't doing a bang up job like I thought it would. Just to clarify: While I can smell gas, it's not overwhelming like you'd get with a liquid gas leak. I'm very sure it's gas vapour getting out of the system.

The only places I imagine the smell can come from are the filler neck and vent tube. I've installed the gas cap and secured it using hose clamps. Didn't cut the hose down to size yet because I have no idea how long it needs to be so it's currently hanging by the frame held up by zip ties.
163256

The vent tube has a DIY charcoal canister attached to it; the same design used by the greats. It's currently full of charcoal. I wonder if it's too small?
163257 163258

JohnK

03-02-2022, 01:56 PM

The DIY charcoal canister that I build (modeled after Edwardb's) is the same size as yours and seems to work fine at keeping gas odors out of the garage so I don't think the problem is the size of the canister. Start with checking the filler neck seal at the tank. Did you install the one that FFR provides or replace it with the Ford OEM part? The generic ones that FFR provides have been known to tear if you look at them funny.

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 03:01 PM

David Hodgkins

03-02-2022, 04:28 PM

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 05:19 PM

I'd check the whole system for moisture, including fuel lines and the top part of the engine. Look under the manifold, for example, and any connections throughout the feed and return lines. also check the seals on the tank itself.

EDIT: I see your post from earlier today. I'd still do a double take, tracing the fuel out to the engine and back again.

Good luck!

Hey David, can you elaborate on what you meant by "check for moisture"? Additionally, I currently do not have the engine installed. The line that feeds to the engine was replaced by a plug on the pressure regulator. Not sure if that changes anything though.

edwardb

03-02-2022, 09:59 PM

I've used the DIY activated charcoal setup on four builds and never had a fuel vapor odor problem. But then again some say they don't use anything and don't have any odor. So take your pick. I doubt that's your problem. Just about anything is fair game. The seal for the filler hose as mentioned. Highly recommend using the Ford OEM part if you didn't. Easy to install now. A pain later. Whether you smell anything there or not. Looks like you have some bracing on the that fill tube. But the tube plus the LeMans cap is maybe a lot of stress on that somewhat fragile tank seal. Other candidates: The fuel pump and gauge sender seals on top of the tank. The filler cap. I assume you're not trusting the LeMans cap to be the only seal. Don't want to be a downer, but I wouldn't have been quite so anxious to put gasoline in the tank this early in the build. Don't know when you expect to install the engine and be ready for first start. But gasoline isn't going to be too fresh by then. Plus I personally don't like to work around gasoline any more than necessary. Maybe at least put some Stabil in the tank?

facultyofmusic

03-02-2022, 11:21 PM

I've used the DIY activated charcoal setup on four builds and never had a fuel vapor odor problem. But then again some say they don't use anything and don't have any odor. So take your pick. I doubt that's your problem. Just about anything is fair game. The seal for the filler hose as mentioned. Highly recommend using the Ford OEM part if you didn't. Easy to install now. A pain later. Whether you smell anything there or not. Looks like you have some bracing on the that fill tube. But the tube plus the LeMans cap is maybe a lot of stress on that somewhat fragile tank seal. Other candidates: The fuel pump and gauge sender seals on top of the tank. The filler cap. I assume you're not trusting the LeMans cap to be the only seal. Don't want to be a downer, but I wouldn't have been quite so anxious to put gasoline in the tank this early in the build. Don't know when you expect to install the engine and be ready for first start. But gasoline isn't going to too fresh by then. Plus I personally don't like to work around gasoline any more than necessary. Maybe at least put some Stabil in the tank?

Hi Paul, I've indeed swapped the tanks seal out for the Ford part. The gas cap plus the long hose does weigh quite a bit, so I make sure to support it by pulling it up and minimize the amount of stress on the seal. I have not checked the fuel level sender or the pump seals yet, I'll check those. The goal is to see the engine start up for the first time in mid-April; but Stabil is still call, didn't think of the problem of leaving fuel in the tank for that long.

facultyofmusic

03-03-2022, 12:36 AM

I've spent about an hour taking off panels and inspecting the fuel system, checking every possible place where fuel could leak. ...Pump seal, tank seal, gas cap, every fitting, you name it. Unfortunately the only leakage detection equipment I have on me is my stubby sensitive nose and a rather slow-to-refresh air quality monitor that can measure TVOC.

The first issue was the magnitude of the leak. It's just slow enough that if I keep the garage door open while I work on the car I wouldn't smell anything at all. It's just big enough to full my garage with smell of gasoline in a few hours. I couldn't reliable smell it 100% of the time from any particular part on the fuel line. The air quality monitor is also giving mixed results. It's almost as if the leak is literally everywhere along passenger side chassis. I realized the slightest breeze can blow the vapour away from its origin, leaving me chasing thin air.

To combat this, I took a huge fan and cycled the air in the garage until it's 100% fresh air with no trace of gasoline. I then closed all windows and doors to let the air in the garage be as calm as possible. I left it like that for a few hours and went back into the garage with my nose ready and my air monitor in my hands. By the time I got back to the car for inspection, my air quality monitor's readings had already maxed out, so it was useless. I stuck my nose as close as I could to every fitting and fuel system component. There were 2 places where the smell was strongest:
1. The -6AN hose-end fitting between the end of the send-line and the pressure regulator.
2. The -6AN fittings near the send and return nozzles of the pump.

All other places, including the gas cap, the charcoal canister, fuel level sender, the fuel pressure regulator itself, all smell fine. What's weird is that the entire line near the fitting smells like gasoline. Is the gasoline crawling down the stainless steel braided webbing?

The other question I have is how did this happen. I definitely tightened the fittings more than enough. Did I over tighten and then perhaps strip them? I need to figure this all out. Perhaps I should pressure test my new lines before installing them next time.

Regardless, I will need to clear the fuel lines of fuel somehow and swap out some lines. A step backwards, but a necessary one.

egchewy79

03-03-2022, 07:15 AM

GWL

03-03-2022, 08:34 AM

I have been successful using the Scotts 'blue' Shop Towels to located leaks or moisture. Whenever, the blue towels touch moisture, water, gas or hydraulic fluid it turns to a very dark blue indicating wetness. Just touch it to the tubing or a joint and pull it away and it will tell you if it's wet or not.

Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Scott-75180-6PK-Shop-Towels/dp/B004IUPAPI/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=B004IUPAPI&psc=1

George

facultyofmusic

03-03-2022, 02:04 PM

are you running braided SS or hard lines from the back to the front? did you make your own fittings for your SS lines? also, keep in mind that regular braided SS fuel lines will eventually degrade over time with the ethanol in the gas. PTFE braided SS lines won't. probably not your current problem, but something to consider down the road.

I'm running 80% hard lines and braided stainless steel lines for the remaining 20%. The hard lines go under the chassis and braided lines are only used where line flexibility is required. The route goes like this: pump -> braided line -> filter -> braided line -> hard line -> braided line -> pressure regulator -> braided line -> hard line -> braided line -> tank. Every one of those arrows are 1 or 2 fittings.

facultyofmusic

03-03-2022, 02:36 PM

While we're at it, how does one empty out the fuel line? Can I run my pump dry for a second or two to pump all the fuel back into the tank via the return line? Does that even work?

Fman

03-03-2022, 05:42 PM

I used this Fragola air tester on all my fuel lines before I charged the fuel system. Works good and is easy to hook up. With EFI I went to 65 psi and as others mentioned you definitely want to run PTFE rated braided lines for long term reliability.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-900666?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA64GRBhCZARIsAHOLriJP9BqkVaZKI9W3HeLk mzkOxvzrnM-zDKBW6CwH8o0yYmwFIDFgalMaAvOhEALw_wcB

facultyofmusic

03-03-2022, 10:42 PM

facultyofmusic

03-11-2022, 06:33 PM

The fuel line debacle is finally over! It's been 2 days since the new lines were installed. No smell of gasoline in the garage at all! Woohoo!

One week earlier:

I was real confused because why the fuel leak seemed to come from everywhere. Everywhere along the braided lines I sniffed was a super strong smell of gasoline. I bought an organic vapour sniffer device to help me diagnose what's happening. Sure enough, everywhere along the line I pointed, the sniffer showed extremely high readings. I made a separate thread here that specifically goes over my discoveries and the conclusions (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42313-Gasoline-leakage-how-to-pump-enough-pressure-into-a-line) with the help of folks from the forum. Long story short: The fuel lines I used weren't designed to handle gasoline with any ethanol content. The rubber was letting gas evapourate through the tubing. That's why there were gasoline vapours leaking out at every surface of every braided line. Yeah, I know, I didn't think that was possible either. TBH I'm still not 100% sure if that's the true cause, but at this point I've passed the point of further investigation. I just want my garage to stop smelling like a gas station.
163806 163807

The solution, then, was to swap out the lines with "proper" ones that can handle modern civilian gasoline. There are a few choices available. I decided on Fragola's PTFE core stainless steel braided lines (Fragola Part No. 601026 (https://fragolaperformancesystems.com/product/6000-series-p-t-f-e-lined-hose/)) paired with Fragola's PTFE fuel line fittings (Fragola's "Real Street Hose Ends" (https://fragolaperformancesystems.com/product/real-street-hose-ends/)). They had high reviews and weren't outrageously expensive.

I'm going to refrain from giving instructions or posting pictures on installing PTFE fittings. I'm not good at it. I actually stripped / cross threaded my first one. Go watch a few youtube videos of pros doing it instead! LOL. A few tips I learned that really helped me install them correctly are:

Use a bit of grease on the threads and mating surface to prevent stripping/galling.
Push the olive/ferrule into the fitting a little to expose some threads for the upper portion to thread in. It makes cross-threading nearly impossible.
The fittings add about half-inch to each side of the fuel line. Take that into account when you cut the lines.

I then pressure tested the lines using Earl's 6AN pressure tester kit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-d016-6erl). There was a bit of discussion on the thread linked above (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42313-Gasoline-leakage-how-to-pump-enough-pressure-into-a-line) on how much pressure to apply during pressure test. Some said 500PSI, some said 125PSI. 500PSI made no sense to me (but what do I know...:rolleyes:). John explained that pressure testing at twice the operating pressure was more than enough to expose any improperly installed fittings. I had a Ryobi tire-inflater that pumped up to 180PSI, and that sounded about right to me.
163808 163809 163810 163811

The lines all passed the test spectacularly. Something I realized during test was just how little amount of torque is needed for AN fittings to seal. I didn't tighten the fitting much at all and at 180PSI there was zero leakage. Pretty magical.

The lines were ready, so now it's time to swap them in. Unfortunately I had already installed the trunk aluminum panel that goes right on top of the fuel pump. The panel itself has a hole for fuel pump accessibility, but it wasn't nearly big enough to reach the AN fittings that extend toward the side. I decided this was a good chance to expand the hole to a size that made more sense for my build. I decided to expand it downwards a bit too to house any tail-light electrical assemblies I may need in the future.
163812

With a fire extinguisher ready at my side and a crap ton of shop towels I removed the old lines. I was especially careful to not spill any gasoline anywhere. It's still just spring time, but it's been terribly dry these days. I can't guarantee a spark won't rub out from this dryness. Fortunately nothing bad happened and the new lines were fitted without hassle. It was midnight when we finally powered on the fuel pump to test the new lines. Finally! No leak! No smell! I can finally sleep at night. LOL.

163813

And that's a wrap!

zee

03-15-2022, 06:58 AM

Beautiful work!

facultyofmusic

03-15-2022, 07:49 PM

edwardb

03-16-2022, 06:42 AM

Been thinking about what else I should do before dropping the engine in for good. Looking through the pictures so far, I realized that I don't have an alternator fuse, nor do I have a battery main power fuse. I know that my daily driver has both of those...

Can't add much beyond my previous post that you linked regarding a fuse on the main power feed. But I challenge you to find such a fuse on your daily driver. I remain with my opinion that is to focus on a rock solid installation (like our DD engineer friends) and don't introduce a single point of failure. The safety aspect of that can't be overlooked.

BrewCityCobra

03-17-2022, 10:15 AM

Been thinking about what else I should do before dropping the engine in for good. Looking through the pictures so far, I realized that I don't have an alternator fuse, nor do I have a battery main power fuse. I know that my daily driver has both of those so I started reading some past threads on this topic. The result of which made me want both.

On a past thread on alternator fuses (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30267-Main-Fuse-Rating&p=345419&viewfull=1#post345419)I read about a manually resettable fuse. Del City has a bunch of these in different variations in stock. This surface mounted one (https://www.delcity.net/store/Del-City-Manual-Reset-(Switchable),-Surface-Mount/p_811053.h_195738) looks real nice. As for the amperage, the alternator on the Gen 3 coyote (https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-8600-M50ALTC) is rated for 175A. Paul's post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30267-Main-Fuse-Rating&p=345366&viewfull=1#post345366) explains that a 150A fuse should be more than enough for anything we normally need from the alternator (for coyote build), so I'll go with the 150A breaker from DC.

The main battery fuse I'm less sure about. While there are threads like this one (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40729-Main-power-protection) and this one (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34895-Fused-Battery-cable) that recommends it for additional protection against extremely unfortunate circumstances, it also doesn't seem to be a common practice. Paul's post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40729-Main-power-protection&p=467075&viewfull=1#post467075) makes a good point that a single point of failure in the whole system can be an issue in and of itself. More over, I'm also not sure about the amperage rating I'd go for if I do install one. I've seen posts that say 200A and some that say 500A.

So I just recently went through this exact same mental exercise a few weeks ago. I was really torn on whether to add a "Main Battery" fuse/circuit breaker.

In the end, I decided against the battery fuse for a coupled reasons 1) it seems to be very uncommon - which to me means people who know more about this than me decided it didn't need to be there and likely only added a point of failure for not much help, and 2) all that fuse would really protect is the primary wire going from the battery to the starter, everything downstream of that is going to be a much smaller wire size and therefore would likely burn up before a big 500A fuse would blow anyways.

In the end I tried to keep all wires upstream of the fuse box a bit larger than needed just for extra safety but did not add any fusees or circuit breakers aside from the one on the alternator feed - which I used a Del City 200A resettable circuit breaker like you described (I have a 160 Amp alternator). I went with 200A and 6AWG wire for the alternator circuit as that is the size that comes in the Painless Ultra High output (up to 190 Amp) alternator kit. I figure if those specs are good enough for the professionals at Painless they are good enough for me.

In the end I went with the circuit as diagramed/sized below.

164089

facultyofmusic

03-17-2022, 04:26 PM

So I just recently went through this exact same mental exercise a few weeks ago. I was really torn on whether to add a "Main Battery" fuse/circuit breaker.

In the end, I decided against the battery fuse for a coupled reasons 1) it seems to be very uncommon - which to me means people who know more about this than me decided it didn't need to be there and likely only added a point of failure for not much help, and 2) all that fuse would really protect is the primary wire going from the battery to the starter, everything downstream of that is going to be a much smaller wire size and therefore would likely burn up before a big 500A fuse would blow anyways.

In the end I tried to keep all wires upstream of the fuse box a bit larger than needed just for extra safety but did not add any fusees or circuit breakers aside from the one on the alternator feed - which I used a Del City 200A resettable circuit breaker like you described (I have a 160 Amp alternator). I went with 200A and 6AWG wire for the alternator circuit as that is the size that comes in the Painless Ultra High output (up to 190 Amp) alternator kit. I figure if those specs are good enough for the professionals at Painless they are good enough for me.

In the end I went with the circuit as diagramed/sized below.

164089

The limited protection the fuse offers is a great point. It's true that the only thing a battery fuse really protects is the starter and perhaps the alternator. The cost and complexity outweighs the benefits here.

I'll just go with a 150A alternator fuse and do a good job ensuring there's no cable rubbing or any exposed points.

Thanks all!

Hoooper

03-17-2022, 05:06 PM

facultyofmusic

03-17-2022, 11:21 PM

I hate to disappoint the idea that modern cars dont have main fuses on the battery but its actually pretty common to have main fuse(s) on the battery on a new car. There is typically a small distribution box on the battery or right by the battery which has just the big fuses (75A, 175A, etc.) which feed the main power to starter, BCMs, downstream fuse panels, etc. Of my two dailys, one has 6 large fuses (300A, 250A, (4) 100A) and the other has four fuses (175A, 70A, 70A, 30A). It doesnt really protect your starter and alternator, what it protects is your car from burning down in case of a short on the big wire.

164106

Right, I can confirm that on my car it's integrated into the battery post as well. I suppose the point here is that these cars are dead simple compared to modern automobiles and the best method of prevention is to make it bullet proof in the first place. Anything connected via small wires should first go through the RF harness, and aside from that the only other big things are the alternator and the starter. With a fuse on the alternator, all I have left is the starter. TBH I still kinda want to add a fuse to the battery terminal simply because I'm terrified of those battery-leak and shortage horror stories, but that fuse can be added in later. The alternator fuse's location is at the firewall and much harder to work on after the engine is in, so I'll do that first.

edwardb

03-18-2022, 05:43 AM

Well, I stand corrected on what's on some (all?) modern DD's. Not the first or last time. Those are clearly sophisticated systems and doesn't change my mind on what's appropriate for our much simpler setups, e.g. a rock solid and oversize as necessary (I use 2 gauge AWG battery cable) to the starter and main power feed. Everything downstream from there is protected through the fuse panel. Not to change the subject, and I realize this is clearly anecdotal, but in the 10+ years I've been on this and the other forum, there have been several instances cited of vehicle fires on these builds. They were fuel related, e.g. leaky or failed connections, etc. Something to consider as it relates to risk.

BrewCityCobra

03-18-2022, 10:22 AM

I hate to disappoint the idea that modern cars dont have main fuses on the battery but its actually pretty common to have main fuse(s) on the battery on a new car. There is typically a small distribution box on the battery or right by the battery which has just the big fuses (75A, 175A, etc.) which feed the main power to starter, BCMs, downstream fuse panels, etc. Of my two dailys, one has 6 large fuses (300A, 250A, (4) 100A) and the other has four fuses (175A, 70A, 70A, 30A). It doesnt really protect your starter and alternator, what it protects is your car from burning down in case of a short on the big wire.

164106

I suppose I should have clarified "in our types of cars and other classics." But this is still a good point of reference and appreciate you pointing it out.

That said, I think this photo also shows how far you need to go for 100% protection and why it probably isn't worth the added complexity for our types of cars. The right way to do it is to have a huge fuse on the starter feed only, and a plurality of smaller parallel fuses, all located as close to the battery as possible, to protect the secondary power feed wires to make sure everything is protected per its size rating (as is shown in your photo). Having one big 500A fuse on the terminal, like I said earlier, will only protect you if your 2AWG wire grounds out but that is about it. The 10AWG wire extending from the starter terminal to the fuse box will still fry if it is compromised in that type of situation.

Appreciate the update.

facultyofmusic

03-20-2022, 01:19 AM

Thanks for the advices guys. This has helped me realize how much more attention I need to pay to the electrical system of my build. So far I've kinda just "connected" everything, but haven't given thought on long-term maintenance and accessibility. Having thought about the electricals more carefully I realized that I actually don't have a reverse-light wired LOL. I also saw BrewCityCobra's post that showed extra aux and USB plugs in the trunk (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38979-The-Brew-City-Cobra-427W-IRS-Lizard-Skin-Applied&p=483783&viewfull=1#post483783) so now I'm inspired to include that in my build too.

For the reverse-light I plan to add an extra wire in the rear harness that exposes a pigtail that connects to the reverse-light switch of the T56 magnum. I'd also like to run a batt-cutoff controlled line to the trunk, where it can power a small fuse box for future expandability such as USB chargers and additional lights. After reading a few posts on LED lights, I decided to purchase the Breeze LED external light conversion kit. They are (according to others) a direct swap with existing components so there shouldn't be any complications there.

Unfortunately this means the engine drop-in date has once again been delayed, but it's worth it getting these things right before the engine goes in.

Hoooper

03-21-2022, 01:01 PM

I suppose I should have clarified "in our types of cars and other classics." But this is still a good point of reference and appreciate you pointing it out.

That said, I think this photo also shows how far you need to go for 100% protection and why it probably isn't worth the added complexity for our types of cars. The right way to do it is to have a huge fuse on the starter feed only, and a plurality of smaller parallel fuses, all located as close to the battery as possible, to protect the secondary power feed wires to make sure everything is protected per its size rating (as is shown in your photo). Having one big 500A fuse on the terminal, like I said earlier, will only protect you if your 2AWG wire grounds out but that is about it. The 10AWG wire extending from the starter terminal to the fuse box will still fry if it is compromised in that type of situation.

Appreciate the update.

How many individual wires do you have running from the battery? I only have a single wire off the battery so in mine a single large fuse (250A) protects the main 2ga power feed to the disconnect switch, which then as a result also protects the 2ga feed from there to to my power distribution unit, 2ga feed to starter, and 4ga feed to alternator. All smaller wires are then protected by the PDU

facultyofmusic

03-23-2022, 01:54 AM

edwardb

03-23-2022, 05:22 AM

There are 2 things I need to add to the rear harness: Reverse Lamp and Reverse-Lockout Module Power. Both of these are just 12V DC connected to BATT-CUTOFF. Luckily the rear harness as these 2 "speed sensor" wires that aren't needed with the GPS speedo. I can use one of these wires to provide 12V DC to both the reverse lockout module as well as the reverse-light pigtail. This leaves one more wire unused. I'm going to run this wire all the way to the rear as an extra dash-controlled 12V DC power to power something else in the future.

I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for the actual reverse-light itself as I'm still trying to figure out all this LED lighting what not. I have purchased the breeze exterior LED light kit that directly replaces the stock lights. For backup lights, I think a strip of white LED around the license plate or under the bumper would be kool. The original cobras don't have backup lights, so I don't want to awkwardly add a third bulb next to the existing light module. No idea if this idea will pass California DOT inspection though.

Another question on my mind is whether or not after-market molex connectors are good enough for dashboard electronics. The gauges and indicator lamps shouldn't draw much power at all, but the accessory plug as well as USB charging ports can draw quite a bit of current. The molex connector pins have a relatively small contact surface. I wonder if I should get bigger connectors for high-power dash components.

A bit confused by this. If you're using the reverse lockout module with your T56 (American Powertrain ELUN-10013?) it requires both RF harness wires from the VSS on the transmission. It's easy enough to add a single wire to the entire rear harness for the backup lights. Through the backup lamp connection on the T56 and to the rear connections. You need to get switched +12V to both the module and the backup lights. Not always on battery power if that's what you meant by BATT-CUTOFF. Wouldn't hurt necessarily to have the backup lights on a battery connection, but typically they're on a switched connection. The module for sure you don't want on a battery connection. It would probably draw down your battery if left on.

There are a lot of different Molex connectors. So hard to answer your question. Personally, I'm a fan of Weatherpack connectors. You'll probably be using them on your build anyway because they're perfect for your exterior lights and most builders recommend them there. With the right crimper (basic one is not expensive) they are super easy to assemble. Widely available in multiple pin configurations and not too expensive. Available from a couple forum vendors, Summit, Amazon, DelCity.net, recently used https://www.customconnectorkits.com/ who had a wide variety and gave good service. Also weatherproof (obviously...) which the garden variety Molex isn't. The standard Weatherpack with round pins is rated for up to 20 amps. Fine for anything on the dash including your typical aux ports.

JohnK

03-23-2022, 08:15 AM

facultyofmusic

03-24-2022, 01:17 AM

A bit confused by this. If you're using the reverse lockout module with your T56 (American Powertrain ELUN-10013?) it requires both GPS wires from the VSS on the transmission. It's easy enough to add a single wire to the entire rear harness for the backup lights. Through the backup lamp connection on the T56 and to the rear connections. You need to get switched +12V to both the module and the backup lights. Not always on battery power if that's what you meant by BATT-CUTOFF. Wouldn't hurt necessarily to have the backup lights on a battery connection, but typically they're on a switched connection. The module for sure you don't want on a battery connection. It would probably draw down your battery if left on.

There are a lot of different Molex connectors. So hard to answer your question. Personally, I'm a fan of Weatherpack connectors. You'll probably be using them on your build anyway because they're perfect for your exterior lights and most builders recommend them there. With the right crimper (basic one is not expensive) they are super easy to assemble. Widely available in multiple pin configurations and not too expensive. Available from a couple forum vendors, Summit, Amazon, DelCity.net, recently used https://www.customconnectorkits.com/ who had a wide variety and gave good service. Also weatherproof (obviously...) which the garden variety Molex isn't. The standard Weatherpack with round pins is rated for up to 20 amps. Fine for anything on the dash including your typical aux ports.

Yes, I'm indeed using American Powertrain ELUN-10013. I'm surprised to see you mention GPS because I thought it's designed to take signal from the VSS on the T56 and feed voltage to the lockout solenoid when the VSS signal shows vehicle isn't moving, therefore the circuit is entirely between the VSS and solenoid, plus wire to provide 12V power. As for BATT-CUTOFF, I plan to use the battery cut-off switch to turn it off. I plan to always take out the cut-off key when I'm not with the car, so unless I'm with the car the solenoid would receive no power.

I didn't know weatherpack can take up to 20A! That's pretty damn good. I've been eyeing the weatherpack kits on DelCity for a while. I might go order one.

facultyofmusic

03-24-2022, 01:22 AM

I used Molex connectors for many of the low current connections behind the dash because they are much more compact than weatherpack connectors, but they are limited in how much current they can carry. There are many different Molex connectors. I chose to use the Mini-Fit connectors, which are limited to 9A per pin, so more than enough for things like gauge lighting and sending units but definitely not for seat heater power, charging ports, etc. For those I used weatherpack connectors. If you want to incorporate some Molex Mini-Fit connectors to save a little space, you're welcome to borrow my crimper if you need it. It wasn't cheap, but it works well (after a bit of a learning curve).

Thanks for the offer John! The connector kit I got is this one (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075LDMNWK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details) from amazon. There's no amp rating on it, but I think 3-5A shouldn't be a problem. TBH I originally thought there were the same as Mini-Fit connectors, but turned out they weren't (I searched something like molex mini-fit on amazon and this was one of the first ones). It looks like it should work the same way though.

For your weatherpack connectors, did you use the pre-made pigtails or the kits?

edwardb

03-24-2022, 05:35 AM

Yes, I'm indeed using American Powertrain ELUN-10013. I'm surprised to see you mention GPS because I thought it's designed to take signal from the VSS on the T56 and feed voltage to the lockout solenoid when the VSS signal shows vehicle isn't moving, therefore the circuit is entirely between the VSS and solenoid, plus wire to provide 12V power. As for BATT-CUTOFF, I plan to use the battery cut-off switch to turn it off. I plan to always take out the cut-off key when I'm not with the car, so unless I'm with the car the solenoid would receive no power.

I didn't know weatherpack can take up to 20A! That's pretty damn good. I've been eyeing the weatherpack kits on DelCity for a while. I might go order one.

Total brain cramp on my part. Sorry for that and the possible confusion. Obviously you knew better. I said "GPS" when I meant to say "RF harness." Who knows why. Fixed it in my original post. But can't in the quote. Again, sorry.

I hear what you're saying about the master disconnect. I have one in my builds and use it when the car will be down for a while (think Michigan winter...), when I'm doing maintenance, when I have it in the trailer, etc. And of course always available in case of an emergency. But I don't use it as a duplicate of the ignition key. Seems a little unnecessary to me. It would be super easy to wire the module to an ignition switched circuit. I don't know how much it draws, but could easily drain your battery if left on. I personally wouldn't do anything that requires the master disconnect to be switched off as a normal part of operating the car. But clearly your build and do what you want. Not everyone agrees with my choices either. :p

JohnK

03-24-2022, 09:40 AM

For your weatherpack connectors, did you use the pre-made pigtails or the kits?

I used a kit. I'm not a fan of butt-splices and the pre-made pigtails would mean having to butt-splice every single connection I run through a weatherpack connector, which somewhat defeats the purpose of using nice connectors, IMO. Weatherpacks are actually pretty easy to crimp. I have the type of crimper where you have to do the inner and outer crimps as two separate steps and it works fine. Just a bit more time-consuming. There are nicer crimpers that will do the inner and out crimps in one step.

facultyofmusic

03-27-2022, 02:03 AM

I hear what you're saying about the master disconnect. I have one in my builds and use it when the car will be down for a while (think Michigan winter...), when I'm doing maintenance, when I have it in the trailer, etc. And of course always available in case of an emergency. But I don't use it as a duplicate of the ignition key. Seems a little unnecessary to me. It would be super easy to wire the module to an ignition switched circuit. I don't know how much it draws, but could easily drain your battery if left on. I personally wouldn't do anything that requires the master disconnect to be switched off as a normal part of operating the car. But clearly your build and do what you want. Not everyone agrees with my choices either. :p

Definitely unnecessary as a duplication of the ignition key. My plan (for now :p) is to use the battery cut-off as a convenient key-like thing that just completely shuts off everything except ECU memory, and have the car's ACC and ignition be operated via the ignition panel. As for vehicle security, I plan to install a proximity sensor key that knows if I'm nearby. There are systems like the digital guard-dog to make the installation process relatively easy. I can totally understand if this feel convoluted to some, but I just really like race-car style push-to-start LOL.

facultyofmusic

03-27-2022, 03:24 AM

The electrical components I need to complete the harness and alternator fuse work isn't here yet, but my power steering rack is! The installation process is very straight forward and it went on with no problems at all. The ends of the rack also screwed just deep enough into the tie-rods for the wheels to align roughly forward, so I didn't have to trim any of it off.
164611

...and that's where the straight-forward part ends. Unfortunately when I did my brake lines I didn't take into account the locations of power steering hoses and fittings. The FFR provided manual says to use the 90degree hose end for the send line and straight hose end for return.
164613 164612

At that exact same place is my brake line.
164614 164615

The 90degree send line can probably fit fine, but there's no way for the straight return line to fit. I can't use the 90degree hose end for return because the 90degree bend is needed on the reservoir end. The best way to get around this that I can think of is to use a 45degree fitting instead of what FFR provides. Either that, or get new lines that have 90 degree fittings on both ends. FFR also hasn't sent me any of the fittings yet but that's besides the point. The most echoed comment around power-steering fittings on this forum is something along the lines of "call Mark at Breeze", so that's what I'll do.

JohnK

03-27-2022, 10:06 AM

facultyofmusic

03-27-2022, 01:30 PM

Call Mark at Breeze. :p

Seriously though, there are a few ways you can route the PS lines. If you're not planning to install a PS cooler, Mark actually recommended to me to use 135 degree fittings for both the supply and return coming out of the rack. This will route the PS lines behind the rack rather than in front of it, which is a more direct route back to the pump. That ultimately didn't work for me since I installed a PS cooler, but it may work for you and allow you to miss your brake lines. I have those 135 degree fittings if you want them.

Hey thanks John!, I was just reading about the power steering cooler when I read your message. Many threads here say to install it especially if I plan to autocross with the car one day; which I do. I'm looking at your build thread post #207 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(headlight-and-signal-light-fitting)&p=467860&viewfull=1#post467860) for inspiration :p. Since the coyote doesn't need an external oil cooler, I can put the power steering cooler where the oil cooler intake is. Might as well have the vents be functional.

facultyofmusic

04-17-2022, 10:32 PM

Still talking with Mark at Breeze about the power steering lines, so we must do what we do best: Work on something else in the meantime!

To be honest, I was never that thrilled about my battery-cable setup near the firewall. It will probably do the job, but the crimp wasn’t done with a proper crimper and the cables are too stiff and too long for the connections they serve.
165586 165587 165588

In post #229 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Power-Steering-Fittings-and-Brake-Line-Interference&p=486749&viewfull=1#post486749) We talked about installing a 150A resettable alternator fuse (Del City Part No. 77080 (https://www.delcity.net/store/Del-City-Manual-Reset-(Switchable),-Surface-Mount/p_811053.h_817644)). This is an excellent opportunity to improve the power cables around the area as well. The new cables I bought are #4 SGT cables. I bought higher quality crimp cable-ends as well as one of those huge crimping pliers (https://www.delcity.net/store/Heavy-Duty-Hex!Crimp,-6!1/0-Gauge/p_823651.h_823652). Re-installed the lines and they look much better than before!
165599 165600

The old cable I used for battery to alternator connection is a #10 cable, which is quite thin. I decided to replaces it with the new #4 SGT cables. I installed the manual-reset 150A circuit breaker on the driver-side firewall right next to the coyote fuse-box. It’s easily reachable and right next to the other fuse-related things so I’m quite satisfied with it.
165601 165602

The revamped firewall area looks much better now.
165603