460.465USMC's MK4 Build #9890 - Gel Red is Rad. Blue is Better! [Archive] - Page 3

460.465USMC

10-24-2022, 03:32 PM

Over the last couple of months I've been pecking away at the carpet installation. Well, it's finally done! Almost. Eventually, I'll need to decide whether to install the two remaining pieces over the door sills. Or, just go with the exposed panel look. I had those powder coated at the same time as my trans tunnel, so they will match the dash if I leave them exposed.

Like many other builders, I made aluminum panels for the upper trunk sides, so it's easier to carpet this area. The complete kit does not include carpet for these pieces, so I ordered a couple yards from F5. Extra carpet was also needed to cover the drop trunk, and both sides of the Breeze cubby wall. Since I didn't need the carpet for the trans tunnel cover (top) I used that carpet to cover the "ceiling" of the PS FB.

Starting from the trunk. Lots of corners and angles to work around. The four button head screws for the covers over the fuel gauge sender and the fuel pump are visible in this picture. I wanted to keep these accessible. The coiled split loom in this view is the license plate light wiring.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174118&d=1666633219

Had a couple seams in the trunk I'm not too proud of, but the others turned out well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174119&d=1666633219

Moving forward into the cockpit with view from above.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174122&d=1666633219

The split loom contains the seat heater wiring. Trans tunnel is removable via 10-32 button head screws--two per side visible below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174120&d=1666633219

Carpeted the "ceiling" of the PS FB. Not required, but once I had it in my mind's eye, I knew it would bother me in the long-term. The ceiling has a diagonal piece that raises up where the 3/4" tube runs diagonally. That along with the angles involved made this piece a bit challenging. I made a template out of cardboard first, which really helped me get the carpet trimmed to match. I was concerned whether the Roberts glue would win over gravity. It did. It held well enough from initial tack until it cured. It's not going anywhere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174121&d=1666633219

I ordered the "Small" heel pad (6.25"x13") from heelpadwarehouse.com. It was a little too long. The "mini" would have been a closer fit at 5.75"x11". No big deal as it's easy enough to trim. At $2.76 each (+ shipping) I ordered two in case I messed up the install. Following a tip I read in Edwardb's truck build, I used a pair of carpet scissors designed for trimming the length of the pyle. (Thanks to my oldest son for lending them to me)! I was able to shave down the pyle to give the glue a more suitable surface to bond.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174123&d=1666633256

Lesson learned: after spreading the Roberts 6700 carpet glue with the v-notch trowel, I would let the glue setup a bit (15+ minutes). This increased the tackiness, yet still allowed me to move it around to get the position just right. This was especially helpful on the vertical pieces.

John Ibele

10-24-2022, 04:12 PM

JohnK

10-24-2022, 04:22 PM

Beautiful job! Nice work Chris.

facultyofmusic

10-24-2022, 05:51 PM

Lesson learned: after spreading the Roberts 6700 carpet glue with the v-notch trowel, I would let the glue setup a bit (15+ minutes). This increased the tackiness, yet still allowed me to move it around to get the position just right. This was especially helpful on the vertical pieces.

Sage advice Chris! Also I didn't know you could just order more carpet from FFR. Was wondering how to find matching carpet lol. Thank you for sharing!

mmklaxer

10-24-2022, 06:28 PM

Awesome!!

Carpet is the one thing I’m NOT looking forward to

Blitzboy54

10-24-2022, 06:48 PM

Phenomenal job Chris. Looks fantastic. You honestly don’t give yourself enough credit as a craftsman. Really first class work.

460.465USMC

10-24-2022, 07:26 PM

Wow, that's fantastic, Chris! It really looks crisp and clean. I like the trunk lights. I used those for courtesy lights under the dash, and hadn't thought of using those in the trunk area as well. I may borrow that idea. Happy for you that your carpeting days are behind you :)

Thanks, John! Lots of clamps on the corners/transitions to try and get them crisp.

You have a keen eye to catch those LED trunk lights. :cool: I'll snap and share a couple photos this week with the lights out to give you an idea of how well (or not) they light up the trunk.

Beautiful job! Nice work Chris.

Lots of work to get here, but made it. Phew. Thanks for the encouragement, John.

Sage advice Chris! Also I didn't know you could just order more carpet from FFR. Was wondering how to find matching carpet lol. Thank you for sharing!

Guess where I learned about ordering extra carpet from F5? Yep, Mr. Edwardb. In hindsight I probably should have searched locally, as the shipping cost was painful.

Awesome!!

Carpet is the one thing I’m NOT looking forward to

Thanks! Definitely wasn't the most enjoyable task for me, but sneaking in a couple go-karts throughout helped keep me going. :p Stepping back now and seeing the carpet installed gives me visions of a finished Roadster. I'm okay with that. :D

Phenomenal job Chris. Looks fantastic. You honestly don’t give yourself enough credit as a craftsman. Really first class work.

Hey Jesse. Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm indebted to many great builds and ideas to draw from here on the forum. Hope your driving season isn't over yet up there in the northeast.

460.465USMC

10-28-2022, 01:50 PM

A minor update to post. I finished all my courtesy lighting, which includes lighting in the trunk, cubby, and footwells. Everything is connected to the courtesy light circuit, and turned on by twisting the headlight switch counterclockwise.

My original plan was to use a tilt switch from Watson Streetworks for the trunk lighting (a la Edwardb). However, in my wiring phase I just plain forgot to run a separate constant +12V for this purpose. I did, however, extend the courtesy light circuit into the trunk. Decided to use that instead.

Since I purchased the Watson Streetworks LED trunk/hood light kit (#L03) (https://watsons-streetworks.com/product/glove-box-trunk-tilt-switch-kit/) quite some time ago, I went ahead and used it to illuminate the Breeze cubby area. Obviously, the tilt switch was not used, so it goes into the spare parts bin.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174124&d=1666633540

I removed the carpet and ThermoTec, and stuck it to the aluminum side panel using double-sided 3M tape. It does a great job lighting the Breeze cubby area.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174203&d=1666804007

For the trunk and footwell lighting I used these LED License plate lights (four pack for $12.49) (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GKHM8TP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) from Amazon. They aren't the most rugged units I've ever seen, but the price is good and they emit plenty of light for my purposes. (For some cheap insurance I bought a two pack [~$8] in case one fails).

I think these are the first self-tapping screws I've used on the build so far. Just seemed like a good way to attach them to the upper 3/4" tube of the outer trunk wall. Placed one LED light on each side of the trunk.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174125&d=1666633540

I think this will be enough light in the trunk.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174202&d=1666804007

I used the same LED lights for the footwells. I had previously installed a very similar version, but with incandescent bulbs. Since they are almost the identical footprint, I swapped out the incandescent so all my courtesy lighting is LED.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174204&d=1666804007

460.465USMC

11-02-2022, 03:30 PM

After completing the underbody bedliner and carpet install, guess I was ready for a couple quick wins: courtesy lights, and now installed neck protection/head rest on both roll bars. I got this idea from Fman, whom I believe was inspired by Skidd. (This forum is so helpful!). Fman detailed his approach here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35778-Fmans-Dart-427-build-9818-Moroso-Catch-Can-PF4-EFI-update&p=445739&viewfull=1#post445739). I don't have anything to add to his helpful write-up, so I'll just include a few pictures of my install.

Here are the parts to put it all together. I'm showing two of the pads to give a view of both sides. The 6061 3/16" x 3" aluminum I had on-hand, leftover from another bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174389&d=1667334657

Here it is installed. My jigsaw worked surprisingly well to cut the aluminum backing plate to match the contour of the pad. It was small enough to fit in my little oven for powdercoating. I picked up the M6-1.0 and M5-0.8 socket head screws that secure the pad to the backing plate at my local Ace. The larger 3/8-16 x 1.5" socket heads that secure the entire assembly to the roll bar clamps I had on-hand (unused) from the kit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174390&d=1667334657

View from the rear. I was able to coax my wife into sitting in the passenger seat so I could get a measurement to position the headrest. I figure more safety gear equals more likely she'll ride with me once the build is complete. :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174391&d=1667334657

View from the front

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174392&d=1667334657

I'm chipping away at a few things I want to do before putting the body on. Like ordering a set of assembled louvers from F5, so I can get those installed, Breeze seat bases, etc.

Fman

11-02-2022, 08:43 PM

Looking good! and Yes I got the idea from Skidd. One thing I have done since I installed the head rests is add a 1.5" spacer to bring the headrest closer to your head. I think this really helps to eliminate the gap between your head and the actual headrest. If you ever took a rear end hit you don't want much space for your head to snap back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174443&d=1667439675

John Ibele

11-02-2022, 08:44 PM

Oboy, does that look clean. Very excited for you, Chris.

460.465USMC

11-02-2022, 08:55 PM

Looking good! and Yes I got the idea from Skidd. One thing I have done since I installed the head rests is add a 1.5" spacer to bring the headrest closer to your head. I think this really helps to eliminate the gap between your head and the actual headrest. If you ever took a rear end hit you don't want much space for your head to snap back.

Even better. Great idea, Travis! Definitely going to follow your lead on the spacers. Might as well make these as functional as possible. Thank you.

Jim Frahm

11-02-2022, 10:49 PM

Thanks for posting Chris and thanks Fman for the links. I just ordered my headrests.

I like the front view. It looks like someone winking and gasping at the same time.

Fman

11-02-2022, 10:57 PM

Chris one other recommendation would be to mount a light up on the inside of the trunk lid. If you have a full trunk load of stuff most of the light will be blocked (ask me how I know). Doing it again wish I would have put a light on inside lid shining down on the trunk (on my winter mod list).

Keep up the great work!:cool:

460.465USMC

11-05-2022, 01:03 PM

I'm interested in the Metco safety loop MDL2500 (https://metcomotorsports.com/mdl2500), but concerned about enough clearance to my cup holders. If anyone has a measurement or would be willing to take a measurement, I would appreciate it. I'm running the Coyote with TKO600 and IRS.

Here's the view from underneath (this is why I covered the ThermoTec :)):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174502&d=1667670632

I'm looking for the distance from the bottom side of the tunnel square tubes to the top of the Metco safety loop. Something like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174503&d=1667670632

NYMike

11-05-2022, 03:45 PM

Hey Chris. Build is looking great. Haven't been on the forums much but I caught up a little bit last week. Here are some pictures of our setup. Hopefully they help.

Measuring from the bottom of the trans tunnel cover, about 3":
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174510&d=1667680694

Measuring from the rear most cross tube, about 1.5":
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174509&d=1667680694

You might be able to modify it a little bit and mount the hoop part below the mounting bracket instead of above, but it may be tight to the driveshaft when you're done. Excuse the body shop dust still all over the bottom of the frame. Really needs a good bath.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174511&d=1667680694

460.465USMC

11-06-2022, 04:15 PM

NYMike to the rescue! Thanks for helping me out, Mike. Your pictures and measurements make me think it will be close, but doable. I'm going for it.

P.S. while you're out there enjoying that awesome Roadster, please snap and post a picture or two. Great motivation for us guys who are in the build process. Especially yours truly, the Turtleee Builder. :p

facultyofmusic

11-06-2022, 09:47 PM

Hey Chris! Just thought I might share an idea I had with you. I was too, looking at the trans tunnel and realizing that there isn't a lot of space between that and the components underneath. The Metco safety loop doesn't help with this. I stared at the trans tunnel for a while and realized I it's really quite boxy and "broad" like a slab of a trapezoidal box. Why not add some curves to it? I plan to add a 1" thick plank of wood on top of the trans tunnel cover and sculpt the edge to give it a curve. 1" wouldn't get in the way of the shifter or anything like that, and it will give me additional vertical space for my cup holders!

My rough plans so far:
174591
(it's REALLY not to scale.)

P.S. Ahh sorry I just scrolled up and remembered that you already had your tunnel cover done. Should have mentioned this earlier!

460.465USMC

11-07-2022, 10:23 PM

What a creative idea, Dan. You have a knack for coloring outside the lines. I mean that in a good way, as you've demonstrated in several areas in your build. I look forward to seeing how it all comes together. Please keep us posted.

460.465USMC

11-08-2022, 06:30 PM

Head rest extensions
After reading Fman's suggestion of adding spacers to the headrests to extend them forward, it was a no-brainer for me to do the same. Without the spacers (extensions) there were several inches my head (and passenger's) would travel backward in the unwelcome event of a collision. I went to McMaster and ordered 2.5" aluminum spacers (92510A479) and 3.75" socket head bolts (91251A639).

Here are the head rests with the new 2.5" extensions. The distance between my head and the headrest is now similar to a couple daily drivers I compared.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174660&d=1667946799

Side view. I powder coated the spacers black, so they would blend.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174659&d=1667946755

Breeze seat brackets
As anyone knows who orders stuff from Breeze the quality and instructions are consistently excellent. I don't have much to add, because the install is pretty straight forward. Here are a few pictures of my install.

The bases and brackets from Mark are supplied in raw steel. So, I scuffed and cleaned them, then coated with black spray paint so they don't rust. The bases are pre-drilled with 1/8" holes (total of 20), and he provides an assortment of 1/8" and 3/16" SS rivets. Since I'm installing mine over carpet with Thermotec underneath, I decided instead to use 5/16" button head SS fasteners, six total.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174655&d=1667946755

Here's a view from underneath so you can see there's opportunity to run the screws into some meat, i.e. not just the flimsy 0.040" aluminum floor panel. For two of the six screws I tapped 1/4-20 holes into the 4" chassis tube (about where the blue arrows point). I fastened the four other 5/16" screws (red arrows) with nylon lock nuts. Only two of the 5/16" screws didn't catch good meat, so I used large fender washes to spread the clamping force. Since I had my powder coating stuff out already for the head rest spacers, I powder coated the fender washers so they blend better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174658&d=1667946755

One of the reasons I chose to go with the Breeze seat brackets is they provide about 1.75" of up-tilt at the front. This is designed for leg/thigh support/comfort on the longer drives. The brackets have four positions, for a total of 2.25" of forward/aft adjustment. My seats sit as far back as possible (just shy of touching the rear cockpit wall), and are roughly parallel to the transmission tunnel (not quite touching the tunnel walls).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174656&d=1667946755

The bases also come with 3/16" hardboard, which is also supposed to provide better support by not allowing the seat cushion to push down between the seat frame cross bars. At Mark's recommendation, I will treat them with Thompson's water seal before final installation. They are fastened to the cross bar with self-tapping screws.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174657&d=1667946755

It's a good feeling to have the seats secured and set. This Roadster is starting to come together. Still plenty left to do, but me thinks there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe have it licensed and on the road for next summer's driving season? Oh, that would be fun! :cool:

11/21/22 update: I swapped out the hardboard and installed ABS sheeting instead. Scroll down for discussion/input from those who've installed the hardboard only to find it break once they are licensed and driving. Added picture of ABS installed below.

Papa

11-08-2022, 07:21 PM

RJD

11-13-2022, 05:09 PM

ABS works great for a seat support replacement - has some spring to it. No regrets after 2100 miles.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35871-Hardboard-Replacement-For-Seat-Bottom-Support

460.465USMC

11-13-2022, 06:33 PM

Chris,

Don't be surprised if that hardboard breaks not long after you start using the car. I left it out when I installed those same mounts. I've seen others use acrylic or plywood in place of the hardboard.

Dave

Thanks for the heads-up, Dave. I'm a little surprised Mark hasn't gone with ABS or other like material in his seat base kit by now given the number of builders experiencing this issue.

ABS works great for a seat support replacement - has some spring to it. No regrets after 2100 miles.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35871-Hardboard-Replacement-For-Seat-Bottom-Support

Thanks for the tip, RJD. Another benefit of the ABS is no worries about it getting a wet. Just ordered from Amazon. Appreciate you dropping in with the suggestion.

Fman

11-14-2022, 03:08 PM

Chris, If you end up keeping that area accessible you get some extra storage space. I keep my registration/insurance docs/spare fuses under the seat. In this little car every inch of storage is a premium! FWIW I have not noticed any issues with just putting the seat directly on the steel base, seems fine to me. You could probably just use some velcro to keep the hardboard secure and easily remove it when needed.

RJD

11-14-2022, 05:22 PM

460.465USMC

11-21-2022, 11:21 PM

Thanks to the tipoff from Papa and RJD I ordered some ABS sheets (12" x 16") from Amazon and cut to size to match the hardboard Breeze supplies in his seat base kit. I drilled a 3/4" hole to allow the wire to drop down through. The thickness of the ABS sheets is 3/16", same as the hardboard.

ABS installed in place of the hardboard

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175292&d=1669088065

I'm whittling down the list of things I want to do before installing the body for the first time. (Interpret that last sentence as procrastination: I feel like I will be getting in over my head tackling the body alignment/fitment). So, I knocked out the e-brake boot, riv nuts on the F-panel, and seat heaters.

E-brake boot Install
I saw Papa's approach to attaching the e-brake boot with snaps and I liked it: Papa's e-brake boot with snaps (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24916-Papa-s-MKIV-Roadster-Build-9115-(Post-Grad)-One-million-views!!!&p=387941&viewfull=1#post387941). I ordered a kit of black snaps, but couldn't figure out how to get the base (female end with screw) side of the snap to sit flush against the trans tunnel wall. So, I went to Plan B and installed it with the trim screws F5 supplies with the kit. I used six of the eight supplied screws. It turned out fine, and is still removable if I need to get at the handle assembly. By the way, I am pleasantly surprised with the quality of the boot. Either I'm fooled by vinyl made to look (and feel) like leather, or it's really leather. Good quality, F5.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175290&d=1669088065

Riv nuts in F-panel
Next up was installing riv nuts in the F-panels, so the splash guards are removable (Edwardb). Back when I started my build a couple years ago, I was excited to learn about this cool invention and try my hand. To make a long story short I installed two, and was 0 for 2. You mean a 10-32 riv nut won't install with a 10-24 thread? Yep, that's what I did. I've been staring at these failed riv nuts for almost two years. It was time to fix them. Nothing fancy or new here, but glad to drill out the failed installs and replace with new. I put in six per F-panel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175291&d=1669088065

CobraHeat Warm Seats
From there I moved on to the CobraHeat seat warmers. Before removing the cover, I traced around the edge of the vinyl so I knew what it should look like when reattaching it. Another forum idea. It also provides a convenient boundary marker to lay down the DAP Weldwood contact cement.

The vinyl covering was difficult to separate from the seat cushion foam. Unfortunately, some chunks of foam came off as I removed the cover. Not all of it was this bad. The factory did a thorough job with the glue. Wow. I used my fingernail to remove as much of the foam from the cover as I could.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175295&d=1669088107

The kit comes with foil tape. I guess it's supposed to be used to secure the warming pad to the seat foam? I tried to install it on the vertical seatback, but the tape doesn't stick well to the foam. Not to mention it's quite difficult to apply the sticky tape underneath by feel. There's just enough room to reach in with your hand. I didn't even bother trying to use it on the other seat, and removed it from the first. I think (hope) the pad will stay put as the seat cover conforms fairly tightly to the foam, plus the foam tends to grab. Curious if anyone else has had this issue, and whether they used the foil tape?

The foil tape comes in a square sheet with precut lines to pull off in strips.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175294&d=1669088065

For the wire routing, on the vertical pad I brought it out at the bottom where it will snake through the Breeze seat bracket and connect. For the seat cushion, I cut a slit 3/4" deep and drilled a matching hole in the ABS support. I previously ran the wires from the relays (mounted behind the dash) inside the cockpit, parallel to the trans tunnel (under the carpet). Here's the bottom of the PS seat cushion, showing the slit and where the wire comes out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175296&d=1669088107

Here's the top side of the seat warming pad. I glued the ends (areas inside the blue rectangles) to keep the pad secure, especially as it wraps around the front. I didn't need to trim the seat cushion pad nor the vertical pad in the seat back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175297&d=1669088107

460.465USMC

11-21-2022, 11:33 PM

The seat back was easy compared to the seat cushion. No need to remove the cover. Just remove the two plastic channels that clip on the metal bars--seen at the bottom of the picture. With the clips off you can reach in with your hand. The warming pad will reach to the top of the seat. No need to trim it. Just straighten it out flat with your hand, and snake the cord out the bottom in such a way so it won't be pinched when the seat is installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175293&d=1669088065

I used DAP Weldwood contact cement to reattach the seat cover to the seat cushion. I made two mistakes here: (1) I should have used DAP Weldwood Landau, which is specifically formulated for vinyl, and (2) I bought it twice. I picked up the smallest size (3 oz; $10). Way too small. Went back and picked up a quart size ($20). I didn't realize I bought the wrong stuff until I was done. D'oh! Oh well, the contact cement got the job done! Apply it, let it set for a few minutes, then carefully push the vinyl cover back in place. Instant grab. It's not going anywhere. Note of caution: the contact cement puts off strong odor. Recommend using it outdoors, or with garage/shop doors open.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175287&d=1669087253

I shudder to think if I have to replace the warming pad some day. I tested them back when I was doing electrical, so I know they put out the heat. Hopefully, they'll function for a good, long time. If my memory serves, I think I bought the water resistant version.

Well, now it's back to more study for body fitment/alignment.

mmklaxer

11-22-2022, 05:27 AM

egchewy79

11-22-2022, 07:15 AM

I thought the foil tape was to seam together the heater pads itself if you wanted to do that, not to adhere it to the foam. Or maybe to seal off a cut edge if you decided to trim it.
I didn't bother gluing my heaters to the foam. it lays flat and will likely not slide anywhere. 1000mi later and it's still where I placed it.
I need to look into the ABS board. I'll worry about it when the hardboard breaks/deteriorates.

460.465USMC

11-22-2022, 10:44 AM

Hi Chewy. Your guess is probably better than mine. The instructions are pretty generic as these are universal fit seat pads. Good to know yours have 1,000 miles and haven't shifted around. I hope my vertical pads will stay put as well. Thanks for checking in.

460.465USMC

11-22-2022, 10:45 AM

I went the same route and scrapped those tape strips. I assumed zero chance that'll hold up over time, unless the intent is just to tack in place during installation, and friction keeps it there. glued it to the seats using weldwood landau.

Hello. Is the Weldwood landau different than what I show above?

Edit: just answered my own question. Boy, I hope I didn't make a big mistake using the contact cement. Just plain ignorance in not knowing there is a DAP Weldwood product designed for vinyl (Landau). Oops! The contact cement is certainly holding well. I hope it doesn't cause an issue with the seat cover material.

toadster

11-22-2022, 06:56 PM

Papa

11-22-2022, 09:07 PM

great job Chris!

has anyone used the 3M Super77 or 90 spray adhesive on the seat upholstery? or is it recommended to use the Weldwood stuff?

also - are you doing the ABS upgrade instead of the fiber boards for the Breeze Seat mounts?

I used 3M 77 spray on the seats when I installed the heaters and I use the same to install my carpet. So far, so good on both.

Dave

460.465USMC

11-22-2022, 09:47 PM

great job Chris!

has anyone used the 3M Super77 or 90 spray adhesive on the seat upholstery? or is it recommended to use the Weldwood stuff?

also - are you doing the ABS upgrade instead of the fiber boards for the Breeze Seat mounts?

Thanks, Todd. Scroll up a few and you'll see I posted a picture of the ABS in place of the Breeze hardboard. Cheap enough to swap, and was really easy for me to do now. Of course, easy enough to do later too.

I don't have any experience with the 3M spray adhesives. I've read a number of builders (like Papa above) who've used them successfully. However, I like the ease of control with the glue. Just my preference.

460.465USMC

12-07-2022, 11:01 PM

I haven't had much garage time over the last couple of weeks what with Thanksgiving, and continuing to research and hatch my plan for body fitting. That makes it sound as if my plan will be something special, or maybe elaborate. Nope. Just takes me a while (long while) to figure out new stuff. In the meantime, my Metco driveshaft safety loop arrived: MDL2500 (https://metcomotorsports.com/mdl2500).

Here are the parts that come with the kit (gloss black powder coat). The bolts are grade 8.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176491&d=1670470005

When I installed the drivetrain, I used three of the Forte 1/4" transmission spacers, which put my pinion/operating angles in spec. However, it raised the driveshaft up 3/4". As I mocked up the safety loop, I was not comfortable with the amount of clearance between the top of the loop and the driveshaft. So, in order to raise the loop and add clearance, I made a spacer out of 2 inch flat bar steel I had on hand. (I'm one of those guys who hangs on to metal odds and ends. They come in handy). Drilled out slightly larger holes (7/16") to give me a little wiggle room. Prepped the metal and then powder coated it in my oven.

Here's the 0.2" thick spacer ready to install:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176492&d=1670470005

The ripple effect of adding the spacer meant the supplied 3/8" bolts (4 each) for the safety loop were no longer long enough. The 7/16" bolts at the forward part of the longitudinal bracket were also too short. They were designed just long enough for the transmission mount. Not the transmission mount plus the safety loop bracket. Off to the hardware store for longer grade 8 bolts.

Here you can see the spacer I made between the longitudinal bracket and the loop.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176494&d=1670470005

With those items taken care of, I was able to finalize the install. Added some blue Loctite to the fasteners that don't have locknuts. Here's the view from below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176493&d=1670470005

Sideview

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176495&d=1670470005

The longitudinal bracket extends about 7/16" below the 4" chassis cross tube.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176496&d=1670470036

In a recent post, I mentioned my concern about clearance between the top of the hoop and the bottom of my cupholders. The 0.2" spacer ate away some of the clearance, but it still clears by a whisker. Here you can also see driveshaft clearance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176497&d=1670470036

The hoop can be inserted from below. But be prepared with something like Gorilla tape on the corners of the hoop to help ease it past the driveshaft to minimize scraping.

Ted G

12-07-2022, 11:08 PM

John Ibele

12-08-2022, 12:12 AM

Nice progress Chris! FWIW, I also head clearance issues which required use of a spacer. And, would have gone for more clearance but ran into the same problem Ted mentioned. I’ll live with 1/8” clearance and a bit of rubbing of the ebrake cables on the top of the loop. Not ideal but I can live with it. Seems like you have exactly the space you needed for everything including the cup holders - you can just say you planned it that way :)

RR20AC

12-08-2022, 03:05 AM

I put a jack on the metco hoop to bend it upward and ran my brake cable through the hoop. Simple and cheap.

egchewy79

12-08-2022, 06:27 AM

I also ended up running my cables through my loop. I figured that if my driveshaft exploded, I'd have bigger issues to deal with.

JohnK

12-08-2022, 11:17 AM

Nice work Chris! One thought - the lower piece of the Metco safety loop isn't perfectly rigid because it cantilevers off the a-frame. If you bump it with your hand you can see that it will move a little bit. Perhaps it's just the angle in the photo, but the upper part of the safety loop looks like it's within a few millimeters of your cup holder. I think that when you're driving you may end up with an annoying buzz where the safety loop is vibrating enough to be touching the bottom of the cup holder. If you've already set pinion angle, from your photos it looks like you'd have plenty of clearance to the drive shaft even without the spacer you fabricated. With an IRS nothing is going to move. Not anything you necessarily need to do anything about right away, as you could always pull the spacer out later if you do have an issue with vibration.

toadster

12-08-2022, 02:13 PM

awesome job as usual Chris! you also sanity checked my a-frame install... the FFR instructions show to put it on upside down, but that's just not going to fit right! maybe my "5" plate was installed upside down ;)

460.465USMC

12-08-2022, 04:25 PM

Hi Chris,

Things are looking great! I also had this same problem and will have to seek a solution like you did; my hoop is actually rubbing on the driveshaft after install. I also used the three spacers from Forte. I will attempt this too, but I have an issue with my e-brake cables coming in contact (especially if I move the hoop up by 1/4"). May have to adjust the brake cables.

Hi Ted. On the PS I had less than a finger's width between the upper portion of the loop and the driveshaft. With the spacer I have at least a finger's width of clearance. I have a similar situation with my e-brake cable proximity to the loop. If you come up with a solution, please post. Thanks for putting eyes on this.

Nice progress Chris! FWIW, I also head clearance issues which required use of a spacer. And, would have gone for more clearance but ran into the same problem Ted mentioned. I’ll live with 1/8” clearance and a bit of rubbing of the ebrake cables on the top of the loop. Not ideal but I can live with it. Seems like you have exactly the space you needed for everything including the cup holders - you can just say you planned it that way :)

Well, I could say that, but....wouldn't be able to pass the red face test. I'm going to monitor my e-brake cable clearance once I'm on the road and put down a few miles. If it becomes an issue, I'll look at options.

I put a jack on the metco hoop to bend it upward and ran my brake cable through the hoop. Simple and cheap.

Hi Jim. Long time no talk. Hope all is well. Your plane project is really taking off (sorry, couldn't help myself :p). How does it compare to building your Roadster? Looks like quite a challenging endeavor.

Thanks for checking in. That's a clever idea. If I have an issue, I will keep this in mind. I like simple. I like cheap. Even better when they come together in the same solution.

I also ended up running my cables through my loop. I figured that if my driveshaft exploded, I'd have bigger issues to deal with.

Right. Seems like that's an option a number of builders have used. Thanks for your valuable input. Always good to hear solutions from builders who have been there, done that.

Nice work Chris! One thought - the lower piece of the Metco safety loop isn't perfectly rigid because it cantilevers off the a-frame. If you bump it with your hand you can see that it will move a little bit. Perhaps it's just the angle in the photo, but the upper part of the safety loop looks like it's within a few millimeters of your cup holder. I think that when you're driving you may end up with an annoying buzz where the safety loop is vibrating enough to be touching the bottom of the cup holder. If you've already set pinion angle, from your photos it looks like you'd have plenty of clearance to the drive shaft even without the spacer you fabricated. With an IRS nothing is going to move. Not anything you necessarily need to do anything about right away, as you could always pull the spacer out later if you do have an issue with vibration.

Thanks, John. Yeah, I was surprised about the amount of "springyness" in the longitudinal bracket. It's 1/4" steel afterall. Wow.

You're right on the money regarding the clearance between the cupholder and safety loop. I added a couple layers of Gorilla tape in case there's contact. It clears by a whisker. If there is consistent contact between the loop and the cupholder, I'll have to take a step back and consider options. The closest dimension between the hoop and the driveshaft isn't visible in the pictures, as it's on the PS side. I could probably pull the spacer and survive, but just didn't feel comfortable with the narrow clearance between the spinning driveshaft and hoop. Like you said, it can be removed easily enough if it's an issue. Appreciate you weighing in.

awesome job as usual Chris! you also sanity checked my a-frame install... the FFR instructions show to put it on upside down, but that's just not going to fit right! maybe my "5" plate was installed upside down ;)

Thanks, Todd. I've found useful aspects in pictures a number of times I don't think the builder was necessarily trying to show. Glad it provided some value.

460.465USMC

12-19-2022, 11:07 PM

I was gut-punched by a nasty crud (flu), which had me out of commission for a week. So, no garage time, but over the last few days was able to get back at it a bit. Thankful to have a heat source in the garage: makes a big difference on days like today with the temp. reaching lower teens and headed toward low single digits.

I ventured off the trail again and decided to add the NRG steering wheel quick release (SRK400 in black). Although this is not an extensive mod, it does require precision in drilling holes right where you want them. Precision is clearly in the "Needs Improvement" section of my shop report card. Despite the fact I'm still quite challenged to place a center punch exactly where it needs to go, it turned out okay. Phew.

This mod has been well-documented. No need for me to try to reinvent the wheel, so I'll mainly stick to pictures of my install. If you're interested, here are some threads on how to do it:

Quick Release / Russ Thompson turn signal (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34975-Quick-Release-Russ-Thompson-turn-signal) I believe G-Pete and frd2 were the first to alert the forum to this excellent mod. Thanks, guys!
Edwardb installs in Type 65 Coupe (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-5-000-Mile-Report&p=399325&viewfull=1#post399325)
dbo_texas (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40632-ATX-MKIV-9644-Coyote-Build-Thread-(Index-Post-1)&p=480475&viewfull=1#post480475) I relied most heavily on dbo's write-up: excellent pictures and step-by-step description. Thanks, dbo!

Here are the two halves that come with the adapter kit. The socket head screws are M5-0.8 and will be used in the mod. The centers with the wires attached will be removed via the two outer Philips head screws.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176993&d=1671507403

Yes, this is another mod that requires cutting away at new parts. I used a Dremel with a metal cutoff wheel. It made pretty quick work of cutting through the aluminum. There's a similar cut on the other half of the adapter (not shown)--also used a Dremel. Hand-filed surfaces to get them smooth and flat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176994&d=1671507403

Not much going on in this picture other than to indicate the clocking of the holes. Aligning the hole pattern for drilling/tapping the six new M5-0.8 holes directly above the Russ Thompson "T" will maximize clearance from the existing 1/4-20 holes as shown in later pictures below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176995&d=1671507403

Similarly, six M5 sized holes will be drilled in the steering wheel (yes, drilling holes in a brand-new steering wheel...shudder). One of the black plastic centering pieces is in the center of the wheel--more on that later.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176997&d=1671507403

This is one of those times a drill press is indispensable (IMHO). (Thanks, Dad, for giving this to me when you could no longer use it). I held the two halves of the Russ Thompson hub together while drilling/tapping the M5-0.8 holes. By the way, I really like the ratcheting driver holding the tap bit. Since I didn't have one when I started this project, I added it to one of my earliest McMaster-Carr orders. German made and decent quality for around $30 IIRC. Not an issue with this mod, but the ratcheting aspect allows for tapping in tight spots where handle clearance is an issue.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176996&d=1671507403

As I mentioned, the spacing for these M5-0.8 flathead screws really turns out nice if you follow the guidance. The original holes won't be used.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176999&d=1671507442

Here's a view of the rear face of the steering wheel. I added the yellow dots to keep me on track given the extra holes in the NRG adapter. The dimple I mentioned above is visible here above the twelve o'clock screw. It's the marker to ensure everything is clocked in the same orientation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176998&d=1671507442

460.465USMC

12-19-2022, 11:07 PM

To help keep the NRG halves aligned to mark and drill the holes, dbo_texas sent me these plastic jigs. They worked great, and really made it easy to keep the parts concentric with each other. Many thanks, dbo! If anyone is interested in using these jigs, I'm happy to pass them along.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177001&d=1671507442

I think this thin version of the NRG blends in pretty well. It can be seen, but I don't think it becomes a major focal point to the cockpit. Had to break out my first F5 badge and put it on. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177002&d=1671507442

Here's a 35 second video of the NRG in action: NRG installed in Factory Five Racing Roadster (https://youtube.com/shorts/tEVdBwlWsD8?feature=share)

Everything came out well. Well, there is one thing: the center cover that pops into the steering wheel is pretty loose. Almost like the amount of difference you'd expect between a metric and SAE sizing. It won't quite fall out, but spins easily, and you can actually hear it rattle a bit when I remove/replace the steering wheel in the video above. Though I haven't specifically searched yet, I don't recall reading about this sloppiness in how the center cap fits. Any ideas?

edwardb

12-20-2022, 06:53 AM

...the center cover that pops into the steering wheel is pretty loose. Almost like the amount of difference you'd expect between a metric and SAE sizing. It won't quite fall out, but spins easily, and you can actually hear it rattle a bit when I remove/replace the steering wheel in the video above. Though I haven't specifically searched yet, I don't recall reading about this sloppiness in how the center cap fits. Any ideas?

Since the center cover no longer needs to be easily removable, I glued mine in with a bead of clear RTV around the inside. Still could get off if necessary.

egchewy79

12-20-2022, 07:11 AM

nice work. I don't recall my center cap being loose at all. do you have that little O ring on there?

460.465USMC

12-20-2022, 10:56 AM

nice work. I don't recall my center cap being loose at all. do you have that little O ring on there?

Hi Chewy. Yes, the black O-ring is in place, but thanks for checking.

The amount of play caught me off guard. The manual says you may need to lube the O-ring because the fit can be tight. I was expecting to have to apply some pressure to get it to pop-in. Not so in my case.

Railroad

12-20-2022, 03:48 PM

Thicker O-ring?
Nice work!

460.465USMC

12-30-2022, 09:33 PM

I hope everyone had a good Christmas. Wishing you all the best in 2023.

When I'm in the middle of a build task, things get pretty messy. Tools and parts get strewn about. My mess perimeter seems to grow and grow. One idea I've had in mind to help contain the mess plus give me some elbow room is a freestanding work bench/work surface. One that I can roll around the garage as needed. Christmas vacation provided a great opportunity to pick up the materials and build one.

I wanted a work surface big enough so I can spread out and not trip over stuff. I found a good example (3'x8') on YouTube. I was looking for simple, sturdy, pretty easy to build, and easy on the budget. The example I found satisfies all four. As a bonus, it has a functional shelf. The cost was about $200 for all the wood, $15 for the 5/16" lag screws, and $100 for the 1/8" ABS I'm using as the finished worksurface.

Here's the frame: 4"x4" posts for extra strength and rigidity.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177433&d=1672450315

Here, I'm gluing the 1/8" ABS to the 1 1/8" OSB. I went with the OSB and ABS combo because I wanted a perfectly flat surface, able to take some weight, and easily wipe clean. Yes, I used everything but the kitchen sink as weights while the glue cured. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177434&d=1672450315

Here's the finished workbench. I ripped down a piece of hemlock to rim the edge of the work surface for a more finished look. The shelf below is built using 1"x6", and will be handy to store frequenty used tools. Thanks to some gift cards for Christmas, I ordered and installed a 6" Wilton vise. My 4.5" red Craftsman (visible in the background) just doesn't have the girth for certain tasks (e.g. driving out the wheel studs).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177435&d=1672450315

It was a fun project, and will immediately become my go-to. I'll have to be careful with heat on the ABS, as well as drilling. Otherwise, I think it will pretty much take anything else I throw at it. I put the textured side of the ABS up to provide a small degree of non-skid.

Since I want to be able to move it around the garage easily, I have step-down coasters on order. I also ordered some leg levelers to compensate for the sloping garage floor.

Happy New Year and happy building!

Papa

12-30-2022, 09:50 PM

Nice work, Chris. I have a smaller rolling work bench that I use for many of the same reasons you mentioned. It is very handy for keeping the tools off the floor and close by when working on a project.

460.465USMC

01-09-2023, 04:06 PM

Now that I've ran out of ways to procrastinate further, it's time to get serious about body fitment. For me, this is yet another intimidating task. So, I've been researching the forum and trying to digest the steps one at a time. And, trying to get them in the right sequence, as there are important dependencies. As the info. piled higher and higher, it became clear I needed to document them into steps to help with brain overload.

The following is a collection of steps for MK4 body fitment I found on the forum. I plan to drive in gelcoat for at least one season, so it's up to yours truly to get the body fitment done, or at least close. As you would expect, so much great help from Mr. Kleiner, and other seasoned builders--plenty of copy-and-pasting from their advice below. For a guy who knows nothing about body work (this knuckle-dragger), I stand half a chance of getting through it thanks to their contributions.

See anything missing, out of sequence, etc.? Your feedback is very much welcomed. Here goes:

1. Before fitting the body (with bulb seal in place), sand a radius along bottom edges that will pass over the bulb seal. This will minimize damage to bulb seal.

A. Use towels, heavy mil plastic, or other material to protect bulb seal when putting body on. Once the body is on it can be lifted slightly with ease to remove.

B. Example picture from Edwardb (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=249263&viewfull=1#post249263)

2. Trim the underside return of the cowl roll ~¼”- ⅜” for clearance to the dash, and do the same for the rolled lip against the rear cockpit wall.

A. If not trimmed, the front lip could restrict forward body movement, preventing it from getting to the desired position

3. Drop the body over the chassis and send it forward so that the body's door flange is just ahead of the chassis' striker tab, about ¼”.

A. Example picture from Kleiner (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36501-Roadster-body-placement&p=417247&viewfull=1#post417247)

4. Check the rearmost lip of the trunk floor aluminum to see if it comes in hard contact with the body below the trunk opening.

A. I've been finding that a bit of trimming (1/4"-3/8") on that piece as well and the corresponding vertical edges of the trunk side panels is helpful with body positioning and lower valance panel adjustment.

5. Run all-thread through the body and into the rear couplers [mine are 7/16”-14 couplers].

A. Do not tighten yet. They are only there at this point to hold the tail up.

B. I’m using Kleiner’s coupler mod at the rear with threaded rod and nuts on the inside.

* Link to Kleiner's rear quick jack mod (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14243-Rear-quick-jack-mounting&p=151165&viewfull=1#post151165)

6. Center the front of the body

A. Measure from the front top shock mount (or chassis point) to the edge of the fender flare and get these as close L and R as possible.

* Don’t measure from the ¾” tubing

7. Nose spacing above ¾” tubes

A. Use ½” - ⅝” rubber spacers on top of the ¾” tube just next to the hood hinge bracket.

* Example picture from Kleiner (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36501-Roadster-body-placement&p=417247&viewfull=1#post417247)

B. This takes the weight off the QJ tubes and holds the nose at a good height

8. Locate the nose

A. Install the front QJ bolts and spacers and button them down to locate the nose.

* Neither Kleiner or Miller use the horseshoe (AKA C bracket) between the chassis and turn signal lights.

9. Install windshield

A. Tap ½”-13 holes in the windshield brackets to ease windshield install. If tapped, no nuts are required. **Note: this recommendation is not universally accepted on the forum, but is the way I'm going to do it.**

* Description and photo from Edwardb--scroll down (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=246493&viewfull=1#post246493)

B. Alternate method from CraigS: If you don't want to buy a ½”-13 thread tap, use 8 standard nuts. This way, while you do your trial fitting, you can thread 4 of them on by hand and use a wrench for just the last turn or two. Once you have the w/s installed for the last time thread the other 4 nuts on as jam nuts.

10. Doors

A. Don’t yet lock down the body on the underside along the rocker panels.

i. This is where lots of give & take comes into play because you are trying to strike a balance at 4 different places

* The upper front of the door where it meets the cowl

* The upper rear where it meets the rear cockpit opening

* The lower front

* The lower rear

ii. To further complicate things we're dealing with both horizontal as well as vertical interfaces along the upper part of the doors. Adjusting for one invariably affects at least one other.

iii. I've had the best luck adjusting for the door tops first

* While dealing with the top area of the doors, do not completely ignore the lower door edge's intersection with the main body but keep in mind that the lower body can be moved in/out independently with little to no effect to the upper cockpit openings.

* I've found that the passenger door has been easier than the driver's side; once the adjustments were made to get the tops in order it just took a bit of outward movement to the lower body to have it meet the bottom edge of the door.

* On the other hand, with the drivers side once the tops were fitting, the bodies had to go in at the lower front corner of the doors and move out a great deal at the rear. I've found that these cars and bodies are quite consistent and one of those constants is that you'll need to push the rocker panel in as far as possible in front of the driver's door and pull it out at the rear.

* I can assure you that you aren't going to get all 4 corners to meet perfectly but your goal is to get them as close as possible so that they operate without interference, and to minimize the bodywork necessary to match contours between the main body and moveable panels. Once you've accomplished that you lock down the body along the rocker panels.

B. Kleiner: You can greatly improve the driver’s door fit by placing a thick washer on the lower forward stud between the door and hinge. When you crank down on the 4 hinge bolts that will force a nice spring into the door which will help with the contours.

11. Hood

A. For the hood, I leave the hinges just loose enough to allow them to move somewhat freely. Then close and position it in the hole and get underneath and tighten the nuts.

B. Hood scoop:

* This F5 video looks interesting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhRg223SMDg&list=PLos1fQkCYXeXaZFs2a4N54rmVnhK56ujX&index=5)

12. Trunk lid

A. The Mk4 trunk hinges allow movement in all axis, so it's pretty straightforward to get it adjusted on the top. By using the coupler method for the bumper/QJ attachments along with nuts rather than spacers on the backside of the body, you can move the valance in or out as necessary to match the bottom edge of the lid by adjusting the nuts on the inside in conjunction with spacer tubes outside.

13. Tip from CraigS for final locking down of the body

A. To add strength, slot the holes in the underside of the rocker panels (slot oriented left to right) where FFR has two screws per side. Then ditch the screws and use bolts w/ nice wide fender washers. As you get into aligning the doors you will find that pulling the rocker area in/out (especially driver side) will be a huge help. And once that adjustment is done and the bolts tightened, these 4 bolts really help lock the body into position.

* Additional advice from Kleiner: slot the rockers so that you can move the lower body in or out as needed in conjunction with the door hinge adjustment. Generally you push both sides in all the way below the front edge of the doors. Passenger side will push in at the rear, maybe bring it out just a bit to meet the bottom rear of the door. Driver’s side you’ll have to pull the rear lower body out around 3/4”.

B. Kleiner does not recommend to install screws around the perimeter of the engine compartment opening. The body is reportedly very secure without them.

14. Install front splash panels

A. Install after the body is locked down with the doors fitted

Here is a sequence thread I found from Kleiner that was especially helpful, and a key source for the above: Kleiner sequence (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18801-Body-Alignment-questions-re-front-end&p=210332&viewfull=1#post210332)

Time for me to pick up some plastic sheeting to tack to my ceiling for a DIY dust containment room, and finally get started on body fitment!

Jeff Kleiner

01-09-2023, 05:30 PM

You’re on a good track Chris, except for #10. Splash panels don’t go in until much later—-after the body is locked down with the doors fitted. I don’t think you have it in there (maybe it’s in one of the threads you linked) but as Craig said slot the rockers so that you can move the lower body in or out as needed in conjunction with the door hinge adjustment. Generally you push both sides in all the way below the front edge of the doors. Passenger side will push in at the rear, maybe bring it out just a bit to meet the bottom rear of the door. Driver’s side you’ll have to pull the rear lower body out around 3/4”. Also, you can greatly improve the driver’s door fit by placing a thick washer on the lower forward stud between the door and hinge. When you crank down on the 4 hinge bolts that will force a nice spring into the door which will help with the contours.

Shoot me a message or give me a call if you hit a rough patch!

Jefg

460.465USMC

01-10-2023, 11:38 AM

Thanks for reading through my approach, Jeff. I edited it, moving the splash panels to the end, and adding your comments about slotting the rockers, and the thick washer for the DS door hinge. Again, very much appreciate your input. Wish we lived closer together, so I could get on your list for body and paint work.

Jim Frahm

01-10-2023, 03:50 PM

Chris,

Let me know if you need any help with the body install? I'm sure I can learn a thing or two by giving you a hand… Plus, I’m getting hungry for a Five Guys burger!

Jim

Nigel Allen

01-10-2023, 05:26 PM

Jim, I wished you lived local to me when I was putting my roadster together!

460.465USMC

01-10-2023, 06:46 PM

Chris,

Let me know if you need any help with the body install? I'm sure I can learn a thing or two by giving you a hand… Plus, I’m getting hungry for a Five Guys burger!

Jim

Jim,

Come on over and drive that Vette of yours. Looking forward to seeing it in person. You know the deal: you come over and lend your expertise and I buy the Five Guys.

Jim Frahm

01-10-2023, 11:37 PM

Jim, I wished you lived local to me when I was putting my roadster together!

I would’ve been happy to help but one of us is living in the wrong country..:rolleyes:

Jim Frahm

01-10-2023, 11:39 PM

Jim,

Come on over and drive that Vette of yours. Looking forward to seeing it in person. You know the deal: you come over and lend your expertise and I buy the Five Guys.

The Vette is hibernating for the winter but I will come over and lend a hand or just check out the progress.

JB in NOVA

01-16-2023, 10:50 PM

Chris, love the workbench! Now that I'm "done" (not really, though) with the Roadster project, I'm finding the need to build more stuff. Just now finishing up a deluxe garbage can enclosure, complete with hand-made clapboard siding, dual gas-strut-assisted lids, magnetic door latches, and motion-sensing interior lights. My wife just shakes her head every time I head out the to the garage. My response: "Hey, it's either this, or I'm gonna build another car."

460.465USMC

01-17-2023, 01:51 PM

Hi JB. That put a big smile on my face. I can just see your "sanitation container" in my mind's eye; nicest one on your street, mind you. I've got to see a picture of it. Too cool.

Yeah, this whole car build thing has bit me pretty hard. It's way too fun. Even though I'm a ways off from catching up with you, I'm already thinking, "What's next"? The bigger question is what kind of strategy do I need to cook up to convince my wife that I'll someday need another car project. I need to noodle on that one--good thing she doesn't read my build thread. :p

buttsjim

01-18-2023, 07:34 PM

: Yeah, this whole car build thing has bit me pretty hard. It's way too fun. Even though I'm a ways off from catching up with you, I'm already thinking, "What's next"? The bigger question is what kind of strategy do I need to cook up to convince my wife that I'll someday need another car project. I need to noodle on that one--good thing she doesn't read my build thread. :p

I'm not even a third of the way through with mine, and I'm already wanting to build another one--partly to do everything RIGHT the next time. It's fun, but also quite challenging for me, and beats sitting around on the sofa.

460.465USMC

01-28-2023, 10:13 PM

I had a choice to make: (1) wait until Spring to work on body fitment in the driveway, or (2) build dust containment. Since spreading fiberglass dust throughout my garage is not something I care to do, it's Option 2 for me.

I thought about this quite a bit, and decided the easiest and cheapest option for me was to hang sheets of plastic from the ceiling. I picked up a roll of 10'x100' plastic sheeting (6 mil). I tacked it to the ceiling by wrapping one end around 1"x3" scrap lumber, and fastening the lumber to the trusses. To encourage the sheeting to hang vertical (i.e. added weight), I also attached scrap lumber to the bottom of the sheet.

When rolling the chassis into the dust containment area for body fitting, I roll up the plastic from the bottom. I attached 1/8" nylon rope through eye hooks in the ceiling which hang down. This allows me to suspend and hold the plastic curtain pieces in place when rolling the chassis into/out of the dust containment area. It's roughly 10' wide by 20' long. Not the most spacious area, but it works.

Of course, my DIY dust room cost more and took way more time than I expected. What else is new? Seeing it for the first time, my wife said it looked like I was building a murder room. Uff da! Not the vision I'm going for.

I also had to relocate where I was suspending the body from the ceiling. Here it is above the chassis ready for first fitment. The body has not been on the chassis since my kit arrived in Oct. 2020. As a solo builder, the ratcheting pulleys and PVC pipes were key for easing the body on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178751&d=1674959942

Wow. As many builders have commented after seeing their first body-on fitment, it's quite a sight. I've been staring at the chassis for 27 months. As JohnK said, it turns out I'm building a car afterall.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178752&d=1674959942

I feel like a proud papa holding his baby for the first time: this is the best looking Roadster I've ever seen. Nevermind no windshield and the gel coat. :D At first glance, it appears I'll need to trim the rear trunk lip, as the body needs to move forward to achieve the 1/4" gap forward of door striker. There's plenty of gap between the front cowl lip and dash. I'll thread in the threaded rod into the rear QJ couplers once I get these first few rough fitment steps/trimming out of the way.

I may need to trim the top of the Breeze cubby wall as well. I think I'll proceed in baby steps when it comes to trimming--one area at a time.

Jim Frahm

01-28-2023, 11:37 PM

Looking good my friend.

mmklaxer

01-29-2023, 07:02 AM

You ain't kidding, that looks amazing.

Blitzboy54

01-29-2023, 11:44 AM

The first time you get the body on is quite a day. Black and red is so sharp. I had second thoughts on the color initially as a result. Speaking of witch have you narrowed down your color choice (ducks behind a desk). :)

JohnK

01-29-2023, 11:54 AM

That's awesome Chris! That feeling of seeing the body on the chassis for the first time is priceless.

460.465USMC

01-29-2023, 12:42 PM

Looking good my friend.

Thanks, Jim. You're making good progress. Won't be long and you'll be here yourself. Let me know when you're ready, and I'll come over and help you put the body on.

You ain't kidding, that looks amazing.

Much appreciated, sir. Though it pretty much looks like every other MK4 at the point, given the hours of blood, sweat, and tears--yes, all three!--she's a beauty in the eyes of this beholder.

The first time you get the body on is quite a day. Black and red is so sharp. I had second thoughts on the color initially as a result. Speaking of witch have you narrowed down your color choice (ducks behind a desk). :)

First body fitting is pretty cool. I couldn't agree more, Jesse. I also like black and red together. Though painting won't be until at least 2024, right now I'm ruminating on orange w/black stripes, white w/black stripes, or a smoky/milky gray (stripe color TBD). The problem with orange is the red Wilwood calipers won't mesh. Also, the dark green you chose is in my top five.

That's awesome Chris! That feeling of seeing the body on the chassis for the first time is priceless.

Spot on, John. Looking forward to seeing yours finished and on the road in the near future.

JB in NOVA

02-03-2023, 10:55 PM

Love it! Can't wait to see it with paint.

buttsjim

02-04-2023, 07:58 AM

460.465USMC

02-04-2023, 11:26 AM

Good luck with this stage of your build. Your 14 steps for body fitment, along with these later posts are going to be a big help for me later on. You're getting close, and I'm looking forward to your completed roadster.

Thanks, Jim. It really helped to write down the major steps I found through researching the forum. Makes it a little less intimidating for me. I'm going to edit that post with additional learnings as I go through the process. I'm so indebted to this forum, I want to give back in any way I can.

460.465USMC

02-11-2023, 04:43 PM

Well, I've had the body on four different times so far. It must be quite a sight to see me put it on, but somehow I manage to get it into place each time. Maybe I'll be a little more graceful and efficient after another half dozen.

After celebrating the body on for the first time, it was time to get to work on several areas: where the bulb seal was fully compressed, body contact on the outer dash wings, big gap above the dash etc. Here are the specific areas I needed to address:

(A) & (B) Trimmed along top and rear edges of trunk side panels. Bulb seal was compressed. This was needed to allow body to move forward.
(C) Trimmed top of Breeze cubby wall using my angle grinder. This was needed to allow the body to drop down closer to the rear cockpit wall. Scraping the Thermotec and carpet away from both sides was especially fun. It was so enjoyable, I trimmed it twice. :p Turns out the second trim was unnecessary afterall. Doh!
(D) & (E) Trimmed outer sides of cockpit wall. Bulb seal was fully compressed, and preventing body from dropping down into place.
(F) & (G) Trimmed outer wings of dash. Full contact with the body, and keeping it from dropping down into proper gap above the dash. I made my own dash out of 0.080 aluminum, and perhaps didn't bend it enough, or at the correct angle. This area also received two rounds of trimming.
(H) Trimmed firewall extension. Bulb seal fully compressed, preventing body from dropping down to proper gap above the dash on the right side.
(J) Trimmed 1/4" of inner vertical edge of the U-channel in the firewall extension. This would have interfered with the PS windshield post--see picture below.
I also trimmed the rear cowl. Front cowl was trimmed just before I applied the underbody coating.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179787&d=1676149554

(F) & (G) Here's what the DS of the dash outer wing looked like before trimming. I had to make a couple passes, ultimately trimming an additional 1/2" below the line shown here. The PS needed the same trimming, as the contour of the body swings down pretty far in this area.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179785&d=1676149554

(H) Here's what the firewall extension looked like after first round of trimming. Had to trim once more so the body would nestle down on the PS to match the gap above the dash on the DS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179783&d=1676149554

(J) Here you can see the vertical edge protruding into the body slot opening where the windshield post will slide through.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179784&d=1676149554

Time for a couple tool additions: pneumatic angle grinder and air saw. Both advertised CFM requirements at 90 PSI that are well within my 13 gallon compressor's CFM capacity. However, my compressor runs continuously when using them, especially the grinder. So, to reduce the duty cycle I stopped every so often to allow it to catch up. The air saw is DIY grade from Eastwood. Also picked up some drum sanders for my electric drill.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179786&d=1676149554

A couple of questions: the first is do I have the door flange far enough forward of the door striker? The distance between the top of the striker and the forward edge of the door flange is short of 1/4". Is it enough?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179789&d=1676149597

460.465USMC

02-11-2023, 04:44 PM

The second issue is I have ~1/4" gap between the rear wall and the body--see picture below. Unless I somehow installed the cockpit wall too low (is that even possible?), I can't figure out what might be causing this gap.

The side rocker panels are tucked in below the chassis.
The top of the Breeze cubby wall is not making contact with the body.
The bulb seal along the trunk sides is not compressed.
There is wiggle room between the outer sides of the cockpit wall and the body.

What else could be causing this gap? Will it settle over time?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179788&d=1676149597

John Ibele

02-12-2023, 11:35 PM

Hey Chris, great progress, and even better for all the rest of us, great documentation. This will be super helpful! I wish I could help you with the gap at the rear of the cockpit. Hopefully others will chime in. Keep on chugging ... having your wonderful documentation completed just ahead of my next steps is really handy! :rolleyes:

460.465USMC

02-13-2023, 11:59 AM

Thanks, John. Documenting helps me keep my head straight on where I've been and informs me on next steps. Glad if you find it useful too. Each build is unique, so others may not need to trim much, or in the same areas (or at all?).

Still scratching my head on the gap above the cockpit wall. When I remove the body next I'm going to remove the bulb seal from the cockpit wall sides to see if that makes a difference. If it does, then I'll need to trim that area....again. If no difference, than back to head scratching.

To address the door striker clearance, I may trim 1/4" or so from the rear trunk lip when the body is off next. Though the bulb seal isn't compressed there, the body is making solid contact with it.

In my case, this body fitting business is a LOT of trial and error.

Jeff Kleiner

02-14-2023, 01:14 PM

Hey Chris,
Good talking with you over the weekend! I pulled a body this morning but before doing so I ran tape right up to the underside of the rear rollover to show the overlap on the rear bulkhead then took this photo after lifting the body:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179987&d=1676398205

I shot this from the other direction:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179988&d=1676398237

I have another car with the body off and it measures exactly the same. Hopefully these will give you some reference to help sort out where your issue lies.

Cheers

Jeff

179987

179988

460.465USMC

02-14-2023, 02:13 PM

Hi Jeff. Thanks again for chatting with me. It was a very helpful conversation.

Wow, that's a lot of overlap in the first photo. In comparison, my body must be sitting above the cockpit wall quite a bit. Holy smokes! I will be pulling the body off soon, so can then measure the distance shown in the second picture.

Much appreciated, sir!

460.465USMC

02-20-2023, 11:28 PM

I fiddle-farted around a bit more with the unwanted 1/4" gap above the cockpit wall, as well as the clearance between the door flange and door striker. Here's where I landed:

The next time I was putting the body on I noticed when the lower rocker panel is pulled away from the chassis the body sits right down and over the cockpit wall. Since the rockers will be adjusted during door fitment, I'm going to leave it for now. If the 1/4" gap does not disappear, I will look into extending the carpet above the cockpit wall to fill the gap (good suggestion from Jeff).
Trimmed rear trunk lip 1/4" to allow more play in forward body movement. This gave me confidence I can achieve the 1/4" gap between the door flange and door striker.
Next, I moved on to locating the nose. To get it centered I measured from the chassis (upper shock mount attached to chassis) to the edge of the wheel well lip. Then adjusted the body left and right until these measurements were equal. Per a good tip from Mr. Kleiner, I picked up SS tubing from Onlinemetals.com (0.75" OD x 0.065" Wall x 0.62" ID Stainless Round Tube, 304 Seamless - Part #: 12927 (https://www.onlinemetals.com/)) and rubber grommets from ********** (they shipped out same day). The grommets can also be purchased from Metro (EX17-B from Metro Molded Parts (https://metrommp.com/)). I cut the tubing to 5.5" lengths (4 each) with my angle grinder, and then deburred.
After centering the nose on the chassis, I was relieved to find the quick jack holes in the chassis lined up with the holes in the body. No need to break out the big hammer. However, the body holes needed to be opened up a bit for the grommets to fit.
I glued a 1/2" thick piece of rubber on each 3/4" tube next to the hood hinge bracket. With the body sitting on these and anchored by the SS tubes/grommets in the QJ holes, it is very solid.

With that done for now, I moved on to the windshield install. Here are a few highlights/observations from my experience:

I can confirm the brass threads in the windshield frame are soft. I thought I was being very careful, but still managed to cross thread a few of the holes. Doh! Thankfully, I had a M5-0.8 tap on-hand from my NRG removable steering wheel adapter project, which made quick work of cleaning up the threads. Also, the channel closes in pretty tight where the screws thread in, so in at least one spot I "tapped" the channel. One word of caution: to reduce the chance of buggering up the threads, minimize the number of times these side posts are removed/installed.
I bought the body cutout option with my kit, which meant the slots for the windshield posts were cut for me. The slots were cut parallel with the body (front to back), but my windshield posts angle outward. The result is the openings are now pretty wide, but I think my Replicaparts trim plates will still cover them. Before I started adjusting these slots, I traced around the trim plates so I could keep an eye on the footprint of what they will cover.
Both side posts needed a little trimming: removed about 1" from the left and 3/4" from the right. When drilling the holes and trimming the length I anchored them in my bench vise. Even though I started with a 1/16" pilot hole and gradually opened it with larger bits, the larger ones really wanted to grab the post and twist it. Probably not a good practice to torque the posts while they're attached to the windshield. I tapped the side posts for the 1/2"-13 supplied bolts, a tip I picked up on the forum. One more thing on the side posts, I wanted the holes to be centered on the post. Since the they didn't perfectly line up with the holes on the chassis, I slotted the chassis holes to match with my air saw.
The Styrofoam in the windshield box provides a nice "cradle" to lay the windshield until it's ready to install.
Working solo, I needed a way to prop the windshield in position (27" from top screw to top inside of door flange). I notched a piece of scrap 1"x3" to hold it in place while I marked the holes, and again to hold it in position as I tightened down the 1/2"-13 bolts.
I used one of the washers that came with the windshield hardware as a shim on the Right side lower post. The rest of the posts were flush with the chassis.

Here's a picture of the channel I mentioned above that was so narrow I tapped it to aid the screw in finding the hole and engaging the brass threads.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180263&d=1676949447

I used the air saw to slot a couple of the holes. This not only provided a little extra wiggle room, but also allowed me to center the holes in the posts. I'll touch these up with paint next time I remove the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180265&d=1676949447

My high-tech windshield placement instrument.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180264&d=1676949447

And, we have a windshield.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180266&d=1676949447

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180267&d=1676949447

I think I'm ready to move on to door fitment. As always, I'm grateful to the forum for all of the great tips and guidance.

Daddy O

02-21-2023, 12:33 AM

Looks like its 3.5” in Jeffs photo. Mine is 3.5” also. Thanks for documenting the process. I am about to fit the body too.

egchewy79

02-21-2023, 06:39 AM

I feel like I almost broke both wrists trying to drill the 1/2" hole into my posts. The drill bit wants to grab and violently twist the drill.
I found there was enough play in the chassis holes that I didn't need to open up the upper hole for the post. My mark was off midline as well, but you can just drill on the marked midline and be fine. make sure you shim any gaps between the post and chassis to prevent possible cracking down the road.

Jeff Kleiner

02-21-2023, 07:22 AM

I feel like I almost broke both wrists trying to drill the 1/2" hole into my posts. The drill bit wants to grab and violently twist the drill…

TIP: Use a step bit—-they go through brass like butter and won’t torque you. Go up to 5/16 on the step then finish with a 27/64 and tap for 1/2-13 as Chris mentioned. Makes windshield installation and removal soooooo much easier when you don’t have to fumble around with a nut!

Jeff

Blitzboy54

02-21-2023, 09:33 AM

Is fiddle farted a technical term? Rooted in metric or imperial?

Mike.Bray

02-21-2023, 09:55 AM

I feel like I almost broke both wrists trying to drill the 1/2" hole into my posts. The drill bit wants to grab and violently twist the drill.

Everyone should have a set of Rotobroach cutters like these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00820M9LS/?coliid=I3M92XPS7DTA65&colid=2IP8X5I5IP67Y&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) or these (https://shop.snapon.com/product/GA219B) I've had a set of the Bluepoint ones for decades and they still amaze me how well they cut and how handy they are.

egchewy79

02-21-2023, 10:24 AM

TIP: Use a step bit—-they go through brass like butter and won’t torque you. Go up to 5/16 on the step then finish with a 27/64 and tap for 1/2-13 as Chris mentioned. Makes windshield installation and removal soooooo much easier when you don’t have to fumble around with a nut!

Jeff

useful info to have 18mo ago. that drill nearly took me for a ride!!

460.465USMC

02-21-2023, 10:52 AM

Looks like its 3.5” in Jeffs photo. Mine is 3.5” also. Thanks for documenting the process. I am about to fit the body too.

Good to know, Daddy O. You're right. After taking another look I agree it's 3.5". I'm hoping the gap is reduced once I fit the doors.

I feel like I almost broke both wrists trying to drill the 1/2" hole into my posts. The drill bit wants to grab and violently twist the drill.
I found there was enough play in the chassis holes that I didn't need to open up the upper hole for the post. My mark was off midline as well, but you can just drill on the marked midline and be fine. make sure you shim any gaps between the post and chassis to prevent possible cracking down the road.

You ain't kidding, Chewy. I'm glad I was only using my Milwaukie 18V drill. An electric half inch drill wouldn't have been so kind to my wrists.

I forgot to mention I shimmed the Right side lower post. The rest sit flush against the chassis. I'll add that note in now. Thanks for mentioning it.

TIP: Use a step bit—-they go through brass like butter and won’t torque you. Go up to 5/16 on the step then finish with a 27/64 and tap for 1/2-13 as Chris mentioned. Makes windshield installation and removal soooooo much easier when you don’t have to fumble around with a nut!

Jeff

Believe it or not I thought about a step bit, but my short attention span must have kicked in. I couldn't agree more on how much the 1/2"-13 helped the install. I didn't even have to remove my fuse panel.

Question: when going with the tapping method, is it recommended to add a dab of Loctite blue to in place of the nylon lock nut?

Is fiddle farted a technical term? Rooted in metric or imperial?

Clearly rooted in Imperial, no? :p

Everyone should have a set of Rotobroach cutters like these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00820M9LS/?coliid=I3M92XPS7DTA65&colid=2IP8X5I5IP67Y&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) or these (https://shop.snapon.com/product/GA219B) I've had a set of the Bluepoint ones for decades and they still amaze me how well they cut and how handy they are.

And yet another tool I've never heard of. Thanks for posting, Mike.

John Ibele

02-22-2023, 10:02 AM

Question: when going with the tapping method, is it recommended to add a dab of Loctite blue to in place of the nylon lock nut?

Or, you could just put the nyloc nut on the back after you've run the fastener through the tapped hole. Should be easier to reach once you don't need to access both sides at once. Great progress, by the way!

460.465USMC

02-26-2023, 06:44 PM

At this point I guess I should refer to the style of latches that came with my kit as the old style. There are numerous recommends and posts on the forum to complete a number of mods/improvements for durability and functionality. I'm not exactly blazing a trail here with new info., but it feels good to have them done now that I've started door fitment.

Here's how my door latch mods turned out:

(A) First up was drill and tap the knob for 10-32 button head SS screw. There are reports of it working loose over time. I anchored my latch assembly in my drill press vise. It drilled and tapped pretty easily. I cut down the 10-32 screws to about 1/4" in length, not including the head.

(B) Like other builders, my latch pins did not fully retract--see second picture below. They protruded at least 1/16". This protrusion reportedly tends to catch, not allowing the door to open. Using a stone on a Dremel and a small flat file I removed 25%-30% of the latch arm stop. Now the pin sits sub flush when fully retracted.

Next, I opened the square hole for the 5/16" carriage bolt. Just a few light strokes with a small flat file and it popped right in, sitting flush.

Then I flattened the dome of the carriage bolt down to about 0.080" (2 mm) with a belt sander. This is to allow clearance to the door. The carriage bolts I had on hand were too long. So, I measured the height of the standoffs for the latch cover, and cut the bolts to length.

(C) I secured the latch lever where it attaches to the pivot with a couple washers. The ID of the first washer should be 1/2" to slip down over the round center of the pivot. The OD of this washer should be minimal to avoid contact with the spring. You can see how I removed some material from the washers to provide clearance away from spring. I added a very thin spacer (washer) with smaller ID left over from my Wilwood brakes to provide clamping force between the nut and lever arm.

Chamfered the hole about 1/16" in the wedge shaped striker that the latch pin engages--see last picture. Did this after the fact per Kleiner's recommend below. Thanks, Jeff.

Finally, I applied white lithium grease to the moving parts (red arrows below). Through a stroke of genius, I determined no need for me to disassemble: in theory the pin spring and keeper could fly out when removing the cotter pin. They could bounce off the wall, and drop into a garbage can full of saw dust and metal shavings. In theory.

For the pivot mechanism, I applied silicone spray to both the front and the rear sides. Worked the latch arm a number of times. Rinse and repeat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180861&d=1677453867

Latch pins didn't fully retract. Here's what they looked like before I ground down the latch arm stops.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180855&d=1677452228

As received, a 5/16" carriage bolt will not slide into the square hole of the pivot center. Just a few quick strokes with a small flat file to remedy.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180856&d=1677452228

Here the now flat head of the carriage bolt is seen. The red arrows are where I applied white lithium grease. I used silicone spray to penetrate the pivot joint. Also, the head of the 10-32 SS button head screw that secures the latch knob is visible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180858&d=1677452228

Here's the 1/16" chamfer I added to the striker where the pin engages.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180996&d=1677781495

facultyofmusic

02-26-2023, 06:54 PM

Great work on the door latches Chris! I'm struggling with the newer Mk4 door latches as we speak and boy do I wish I got the old-style door latches. Much smaller and unlatches in a way that actually makes sense!

Jeff Kleiner

02-26-2023, 07:17 PM

One last thing Chris—-see that coil spring above “C”? Get rid of it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180861&d=1677453867

OK, one more one last thing—-the hole in the wedge shaped striker that the latch pin engages…take a countersink bit and put a nice 1/16” chamfer on it.

Carry on!

Jeff

460.465USMC

02-27-2023, 10:38 AM

One last thing Chris—-see that coil spring above “C”? Get rid of it.

OK, one more one last thing—-the hole in the wedge shaped striker that the latch pin engages…take a countersink bit and put a nice 1/16” chamfer on it.

Carry on!

Jeff

Hi Jeff. Thanks for putting eyes on this. What does that spring do (or not do well) that it should be removed? Does it cause the latch arm to bind or something?

Also, thanks for the tip on the chamfer in the striker. Easy enough to do now.

460.465USMC

03-13-2023, 03:37 PM

With the door latch improvements done, I moved on to setting the DS door in place. I pushed the rocker panel up against the 2" square tube, and in all the way. Then held it there using a scissor jack while I fiddle-farted (that one was just for you, Blitzboy! :p) with centering the door. With the slotted hinges/mounts it can be moved forward/aft, left/right, and up/down. Uff-da!

My door needed to be sanded down to fit in the opening (I think this is normal). Laying down a 1/4" thin line on the door to match the curve of the body opening gave me a guide for sanding. I opted for a sanding block and elbow grease to remove the material. As a first timer, no need for me to up the risk of removing too much glass with the die grinder. It comes off pretty fast with 60 grit or 36 grit.

After many iterations of centering the door in all six directions I came up with this position.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181536&d=1678736955

The door alignment certainly isn't perfect. For one, the top forward corner of the door protrudes out from the body a bit. I think this may be typical as well. I'm assuming the body Pro will need to build up the body in this area.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181537&d=1678736955

Once I had the door centered, I tightened the two socket head hinge bolts, and the nuts on the four door studs. Per Mr. Kleiner's advice, I added a thick (slightly less than 1/8") washer between the lower forward door stud and the hinge. I set aside the supplied nylon lock nuts for now. I'm using standard nuts until I put the doors in for the final time. The DS rocker panel is now secured in place with a couple #10 self-tapping screws through the factory holes. I will slot these holes left/right next time I have the body off, so they can be dialed in exactly after paint. Replacing the #10 self-tappers will be 1/4-20 SS button heads into rivnuts in the 2" square tube.

Next, it was time to install the latch. The manual speaks of a spacer for the latch, but doesn't show it. It's been so long since inventory I completely forgot what they were, and the fact I had them. They are laser cut, and 3/16" thick. If needed, they're used during this step, that is, aligning the latch to the door strike.

Door latch spacer:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181533&d=1678735565

I used it on the driver's side. Remains to be seen if the PS will need it. I picked up a couple 5/16" ID x 3/4" steel spacers at Ace for the striker bolts. I think it looks better and is more solid than stacked washers to set the striker distance away from the strike mount (as shown in the manual). Just had to shave it about 1/4" to fit. It's visible in the picture below.

To fasten the latch assembly to the door, I tapped for 10-32 screws. Upon a closer look, I see the steel backing behind the fiberglass is plenty thick to tap for 10-32 (thank for the suggestion, Edwardb). The manual doesn't specify the hardware here. I used socket head screws, because the hole closest to the lever (upper left in picture below) doesn't have clearance for a button head.

Door latch installed with socket head 10-32 screws.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181534&d=1678735565

And with the shiny cover on the latch. I don't know why the manual says to toss the acorn nuts to secure the striker. They fit perfectly for me, and give it a nicer finish.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181535&d=1678735565

I know a functioning door latch is only a big deal to me. But pix or it didn't happen, no? There were a lot of steps to get to a functioning door. Here's an exciting 13 sec video of the DS door latch operation :p:
https://youtube.com/shorts/NxzpQEgaJo8

John Ibele

03-13-2023, 03:53 PM

Nice work and nice pace you're keeping, Chris! I can't decide whether I'm keeping pace because I have more time on my hands, or because you're writing up fantastic advice just before I need it. Unless you think I'm kidding I'll share just one photo:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52745636791_bcb5cf292b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2omXbbT)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2omXbbT) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Yeah, your windshield post, converted to Word and font size increased for clarity, required reading for any of my helpers touching the car last weekend. I could feel either creepy or just a bit like a leech, but ... I'm basically without shame. You wrote it, I'm using it :cool:

When you have the other door dialed in, is it going to be "When one door closes, another one opens"?

460.465USMC

03-13-2023, 04:22 PM

If I can give back even 1/50th of the help and guidance I've received from the forum, it will be very rewarding.

Once my PS door goes in it might be, "When one door closes, the other one falls off". But hopefully not. :p

John Ibele

03-13-2023, 04:55 PM

Hey quick Q if you don't mind. Mr. Kleiner would like it if I left gapping the panels to him, but I can already tell I'm going to have an interference fit at the top inside edge of the door, where it meets the body in front and back. How much material did you remove here? It's just out of view in your last two photos. Thanks!

Fman

03-13-2023, 05:10 PM

Nice work securing your balls, nothing worse than loosing a ball... happened to me before I installed the McMaster threaded ball. Your solution is also a great way to secure your balls. ;)

Nice work on the entire door mech! you are moving right along! Hopefully you can get some good drive time in this spring!

460.465USMC

03-13-2023, 05:18 PM

I would like to leave it to the Pro as well, but my decision to drive in gel coat for at least a season precludes that option. Basically, I just removed enough material around the perimeter to provide clearance for the full swing of the door. If you look at the thin line in the first photo those are the areas I sanded. I don’t think I removed more than 1/8” in any particular area. Definitely not more than 3/16”. Keep an eye on your sanding angle.

460.465USMC

03-25-2023, 02:22 PM

I've been chipping away since my last update. A little bit of progress on most days. With the DS door complete, I tackled the PS door. As has been mentioned by Mr. Kleiner, each door has its unique adjustments and tendencies. It required some sanding, but it seemed to center a little easier. Perhaps because it was my second door?

Sorry, but no video for the PS door. :p Here's a picture of the latch secured with the door in place. The doors have a satisfying thunk when they close. Not quite like the steel doors from the 60s, but it's a good sound to me no less. Especially, considering how light they are compared to the older steel doors.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182046&d=1679769014

Check straps: I like to finish up an area when I can, so moved on to the check straps. I used 10-32 SS button head screws instead of rivets. For the 2" square tube side, I installed 10-32 rivnuts. Gives it a more professional, finished appearance, IMHO. The exposed standard nuts on the door side of the hinge will be replaced with 10-32 SS acorn nuts later on. As will the nuts on the 3/8" door studs. Here's a view of the PS check strap. I'll try my hand at vinegaroon to make them black.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182047&d=1679769014

Side louvers: I went with the assembled side louvers from F5. I liked the approach Edwardb used (no surprise there) in his 20th anniversary build (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=246076&viewfull=1#post246076) to install them so they are removable. Not sure if I'll ever need to, but the louver opening would make a handy access hole if needed in the future. I bought the adhesive mount studs - 97590A567 (https://www.mcmaster.com/97590A567/) from McMaster, and attached them via the supplied angle brackets. The brackets are attached to the louver via 6-32 SS button heads and nylon lock nuts. I made sure the studs were flush with the outside face of the louvers. It's important to locate the bracket to louver holes while the studs and louvers sit on a flat surface. Otherwise, there will be a gap between the inside of the body and the louver when installed. The louvers are now at the powder coating shop, along with the front nose grilles, splash panels, quick jacks and tubes, and side exhaust heat shields. All will be black.

Driver side louver on the bottom (finished side up) and PS on the top (finished side down). Note the 6-32 screws are pretty well hidden on the finished side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182049&d=1679769014

Next, I started hood fitment. My first step was to install the hinge brackets to the hood. I hemmed and hawed about using rivets to attach these, and ultimately decided the leftover 3/16" stainless steel rivets from my Breeze battery install would suffice. It's all I can do to install these with my hand rivet tool. I actually don't mind installing rivets by hand v. power tool. The one exception are these 3/16" stainless rivets. Oof!

It surprised me a bit to find not all the holes in the hood align to the holes in the hood bracket. I had to drill out several holes on the hood side to get alignment. I found the two best holes on each bracket so they are set to roughly the same inward pointing angle. Then I installed rivets in these holes. Then I drilled through the bracket into the hood to get the hood side hole aligned. These brackets feel very solid with the four SS rivets.

Here's an example of a hood hole that didn't align with the bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182048&d=1679769014

Hood fitment continues. I've made two passes with the orbital sander (I'm liking my DIY dust containment "room"), and the hood now centers in the body opening. I hope to have the spacer/bumpers in, handles installed, and prop rods installed for my next update.

Happy building!

Blitzboy54

03-27-2023, 10:35 AM

I had the same issue with the hood bracket. The difference was it was post paint so I was STRESSED drilling it out but not punching through. best to get this all sorted now.

Windsor

03-27-2023, 09:14 PM

Your 10-32 bolts for the check straps look a bit long for acorn nuts.

You may need to source shorter bolts or make these shorter.

460.465USMC

03-28-2023, 10:14 AM

Hi Rob. Appreciate the calibrated eye. You may be right. I haven't measured them yet. If I had a nickel for every bolt I've shortened on this build....:p I keep the Dremel and angle grinder within arm's reach.

460.465USMC

04-05-2023, 03:27 PM

I'm making some slow but sure progress getting the hood installed. My approach is based largely upon forum wisdom:

Center hood in the hood opening. I used 3M 1/4" vinyl tape on the hood to show me where to remove material for an even gap around the perimeter. I used an orbital and block sander combination until the gap is a solid 3/16". My goal is to make the hood gap functional, not perfect. That will be up to the body Pro later on.
Bumpers: tape down kit supplied rubber bumpers to get hood at even plane with the body. From a tip from Edwardb, I used my belt sander to shave the bumpers to their respective heights--see picture below. I don't think I'll put any bumpers at the front, as the hinge brackets seem to be providing adequate support. Note: I'm not going to install the bumpers permanently until I'm completely done with the hood. I'm noticing little changes in hood position as I center and adjust front hinges, and rear latches.
Front hinge brackets: adjusted position of hood (forward/aft, left/right, and up/down) with the front hinge brackets to get the hood centered and in-plane with the hood opening/body.
Prop rods: installed left and right SS prop rods from Breeze. These are 5/16" in diameter. Boy, do they hold the hood solid. I much prefer the look and function of the prop rods to the kit supplied gas struts. However, the DS gave me quite a bit of trouble, because it needs to lay down between the brake reservoirs and 3/4" tube. To make a long story short, I spaced the reservoirs out from the tube, and added a couple spacers to the rod keeper bracket. I also had to grind away a halfmoon shape below the plane of the hood opening. This created a large enough gap for the prop rod to nestle down in between and engage the keeper. See pictures below. Tip: this is probably common sense, but I recommend mocking up the prop rod using the positioning in Mark's instructions to determine best placement for the aluminum brackets on the hood. I didn't, and had to relocate the PS bracket. Now it engages the hood where it naturally wants to be.

Tip from Edwardb to attach bumpers to a block of wood in order to shave them down as needed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182541&d=1680723665

As I described above, I had some work to do to establish a gap between my brake reservoirs and 3/4" tube. Here, the halfmoon shape I ground out is visible just below the plane of the hood opening. It's tight, but fits now without interference.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182542&d=1680723665

Top view of the same, but with prop rod in place:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182543&d=1680723701

View of the PS prop rod.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182545&d=1680723701

Two functioning hood prop rods. It's a good feeling to be able to open, close, and prop the hood in place. With two prop rods, I can lay down the one on the side I'm working, but still support the hood with the rod on the other side. Should be handy for future maintenance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182544&d=1680723701

I'm pretty far along with installing hood latches and hood scoop. Hope to be able to complete these steps soon and have a finished hood.

Happy building.

Jeff Kleiner

04-05-2023, 04:48 PM

Hey Chris! Good progress :)

Give me a ring before tackling the scoop…there are nuances.

Jeff

John Ibele

04-07-2023, 09:03 AM

Hey Chris! Good progress :)

Give me a ring before tackling the scoop…there are nuances.

Jeff

I’m a pro at those: I’m gonna leave it all to Jeff :cool:

460.465USMC

04-08-2023, 08:15 PM

With the hood centered and height set to match the plane of the hood opening, it was time to move on to the hood latches. I followed Mr. Kleiner's recommend to rotate the latch bases 90 deg.--set left to right instead of front to back as F5 instructions show. The idea is for the screws to catch the flat part of the rib underneath. Although in hind sight, I don't think it matters in my case as my mounting screws do not go through both layers of the hood. More on that in a minute.

Hood latches: I really liked how Edwardb installed his latches (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=259469&viewfull=1#post259469), so I set out to do the same. I should know by now when I try to follow some of his mods, it's always more difficult (for me at least) than it looks. There are three improvements to his approach: (1) use 10-32 nut plates to anchor the latches, (2) install a flanged bushing to stiffen the support for the handles, and (3) make a latch catch that matches the profile of the latch arm.

I used a step bit to open the top side of the hole to 7/8", enough room to insert the nut plates. Unfortunately, there was a big glob of resin underneath the top layer of fiberglass. Right where I needed to mount the nut plates. Uff-da! Scratched my head on how to remove enough of the glob to fit the nut plates. Finally, it was Dremel to the rescue.

Please excuse the photo quality, but wanted to show the glob I had to grind away.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182695&d=1680998744

Dremel to the rescue. It quickly ate away the glob. So quickly in fact I had to be careful I didn't grind into the top layer of fiberglass.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182696&d=1680998744

Next I attached the nut plates (98001A125) (https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3614/98001A125) with JB Weld. With the latch installed, I slid the flanged bearing (7815K22) (https://www.mcmaster.com/7815K22/) over the shaft and used JB Weld to make it permanent. The 3/8" ID of the bearing needs to be opened up slightly so it will fit over the shaft. I used a 25/64" drill bit I had on hand to increase the ID. Just right.

Nut plate and flanged bearing viewed from top side. My attempt is fairly crude. The good news is it's solid, and can't be seen with the latch handles in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182699&d=1680998744

Bottom side view. The flange is 1/8" wide. Plenty of surface area to get some JB Weld for good adhesion. He was right: it really makes the handle feel more solid. I also added some around the shaft on the other side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182698&d=1680998744

I wasn't quite done copying Edwardb yet. (I should probably drop a check into the mail now for all of his good ideas. :p) He shared a nice idea he picked up from the forum to match the profile of the aluminum latch catches. Not necessary, but a nice touch, as it keeps the latches centered. You can hear them pop into place. The idea is to match (or in my case just try to get close) the top profile of the latch arm. Here's my attempt. I made these out of a leftover piece of 1"x1" angle aluminum. I'll probably powder coat them, or just polish a bit and hit with clear ceramic.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182703&d=1680998808

Hood scoop: Okay. So the hood is adjusted and centered. The hood latches are installed. Now the hood scoop. First up is to find the center. I really took my time to carefully measure center. Then placed a string, and used it to mark up the hood and body for the center reference line.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182697&d=1680998744

460.465USMC

04-08-2023, 08:16 PM

I transferred the hood center to the bottom of the hood. After measuring about ten times and marking the cutout for the scoop, I followed a tip from Mr. Kleiner and used hole saws for the corners. The opening is about 3/4" in from the #10 screw holes on the side, and about two inches rearward from the front of the scoop opening.

No turning back now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182700&d=1680998808

I started with my DIY grade air saw, but the blade wandered, and wasn't cutting well. Maybe it was getting pinched between the two layers of fiberglass. I didn't think Dremel was a good option, but it worked really well. I was able to cut a much straighter line connecting the hole saw holes. I cleaned up the opening using a combination of orbital sander, drum sander on my drill, and a bit of block sanding.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182701&d=1680998808

Here it is in place with the hood scoop attached. I'll replace the 10-32 nuts with SS acorn nuts later on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182702&d=1680998808

Top side view. The blue tape seen sticking out into the gap is holding the rubber bumpers in place. Now that I'm done adjusting the hood, I will install the bumpers. The scar on the PS must have occurred during transport between MA and Spokane. I'm not worried about it, as it will be fixed by the body Pro.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182705&d=1680998862

The last thing I need to do on the hood (I think) is to fill the ~1/4" gap with 3M HSRF. I ordered a quart, and it should arrive next week ($$$$ - cough, cough). The gap between the hood layers is widest at the front.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182704&d=1680998808

A big thanks to Mr. Kleiner and Edwardb for their tips, and patiently answering my questions.

Papa

04-08-2023, 09:46 PM

You're making great progress, Chris. The car is looking really well built.

Dave

Blitzboy54

04-09-2023, 07:11 AM

One thing I learned is I used button head screws (like you) and acorn nuts on the hood scoop. After about 1000 miles I found one missing and several loose. Lots of vibration. When you’re done make sure to dab some blue locktite on there. Since then I’ve not had any problems.

Car is really coming along. Looks fantastic

460.465USMC

04-09-2023, 11:29 AM

You're making great progress, Chris. The car is looking really well built.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. I'm having a blast. Hoping to have it licensed and on the road this year...we'll see.

One thing I learned is I used button head screws (like you) and acorn nuts on the hood scoop. After about 1000 miles I found one missing and several loose. Lots of vibration. When you’re done make sure to dab some blue locktite on there. Since then I’ve not had any problems.

Car is really coming along. Looks fantastic

Good tip, Jesse. I will definitely add some blue to the acorn nuts. Hope your driving season in the NE is getting underway.

460.465USMC

04-20-2023, 10:01 PM

I think there's a light at the end of the body fitting tunnel. Lots of new stuff going on here for me, but I was able to get the trunk lid on and prop rod installed.

Like the F5 instructions say, I started by setting the trunk lid in place to see which edges I needed to sand. Again, used my orbital sander (36 grit) to do the heavy lifting, followed by a block sander (60 or 80 grit). The gap is now ballpark with no interference during opening or closing. Sanded a fairly heavy radius on the inside top edge to give clearance for opening/closing.

With the trunk lid in place (centered), I marked the body and trunk with a Sharpie on the hinge side of trunk lid near center. The marks can be seen in the fourth picture below. Then I transferred the mark to the inside of the lid. Being able to see these marks while my head was underneath--see below--made a big difference in getting the lid set left and right. Then I tightened the screws on the mounting pads.

From there I moved on to the four carriage bolts that attach the hinge arms to the mounting pads. For the next couple of hours there was a whole lot of this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183253&d=1682042921

The white towel is special operations equipment to minimize the number of dents in my Brain Housing Group. :p It took a lot of little adjustments to slowly creep in on the proper height and even gaps all around. Once I was in the ballpark, I made little adjustments one side at a time to finish dialing it in.

Here's where my hinge adjustment ended. Obviously, this will vary by build.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183249&d=1682042891

I followed the instructions to install the latch assembly with one minor exception: I used 1/4-20 SS screws and lock nuts instead of the kit supplied #14 sheet metal screws. I added a dab of anti-seize to prevent galling.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183252&d=1682042891

I used a 3/16" x 6" drill bit to drill the hole for the latch pin. Difficult to get the drill close enough with a standard length bit. Here's how it sits in place. I'll leave any gap improvement to the body Pro.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183250&d=1682042891

I'm using the Breeze prop rod (https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/trunk-prop-rod-kit-stainless-steel-30-long/) for the trunk lid as well. I like the simplicity, functionality, and old school vibe. I think these are designed for trunks without carpet, but with a little ingenuity I was able to get it to mount and fit okay despite the ThermoTec and carpet. Installing it with the gas tank and Russ T. drop trunk in place is it's own challenge. I opted for a right side install, so I could fit my hand through the fuel pump access panel to install the washer and cotter pin. Did I mention I'm glad I made the trunk panels removable? I think this is the second or third time I've needed access.

To avoid carpet twirling around the drill bit, I used a nail with a head the right size to melt just enough of the carpet. Used my little torch to heat it. I found it was an effective way to remove the carpet where I needed to drill without damaging the surrounding carpet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183248&d=1682042891

Functioning trunk with prop rod. I trimmed about 1/4" off the latch pin sleeve to get it to fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183251&d=1682042891

And finally, the not-so-much-anticipated, one-star-rated sequel to "A Door Opens. A Door Closes": "A Trunk Lid Closes.
A Trunk Lid Opens" (16 sec).
https://youtube.com/shorts/4bRbvWkw1gg

Blitzboy54

04-21-2023, 06:42 AM

Hot nail is genius Chris.

Jeff Kleiner

04-21-2023, 08:28 AM

Chris,
I use that exact same tool to hold the trunk open while making hinge adjustments! Only difference is that I'm not smart enough to protect it with a soft fluffy towel :(

Jeff

460.465USMC

04-21-2023, 08:55 AM

Hot nail is genius Chris.

I thought so too, Jesse. That's why when I saw a guy on YouTube (Dan's Garage) do it, I added it to the list of stolen ideas to implement on my build. I also used it to create a silhouette in the carpet for the prop rod keeper, so it would sit flush.

Chris,
I use that exact same tool to hold the trunk open while making hinge adjustments! Only difference is that I'm not smart enough to protect it with a soft fluffy towel :(

Jeff

I have precious few brain cells left. Gots to protect 'em!

Mike.Bray

04-21-2023, 09:03 AM

I'm using the Breeze prop rod (https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/trunk-prop-rod-kit-stainless-steel-30-long/) for the trunk lid as well. I like the simplicity, functionality, and old school vibe. I think these are designed for trunks without carpet, but with a little ingenuity I was able to get it to mount and fit okay despite the ThermoTec and carpet. Installing it with the gas tank and Russ T. drop trunk in place is it's own challenge. I opted for a right side install, so I could fit my hand through the fuel pump access panel to install the washer and cotter pin. Did I mention I'm glad I made the trunk panels removable? I think this is the second or third time I've needed access.

I purchased and installed the Breeze trunk prop rod. Then I saw the gas strut kit from FFR is only $50 so I bought and installed it. I really like the gas struts, open the trunk and it just stays up instead of hitting me in the head. I still have the prop rod installed as a backup, after going through what it takes to install it I have no plans of taking it out lol

460.465USMC

04-21-2023, 01:19 PM

Documenting my build on the forum is a key tool I'm using to reference back to what I did and why. (This getting older thingy and memory degradation is for the birds :p). Bonus if someone else finds it helpful too.

Intro and Garage Prep (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=418460&viewfull=1#post418460)

Wilwood brakes - safety wiring (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=423436&viewfull=1#post423436)

Kit delivery day (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=431589&viewfull=1#post431589)

Body suspended from ceiling (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=432126&viewfull=1#post432126)

IRS and IFS progress (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=432900&viewfull=1#post432900)

Rear Wilwood brakes (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=434378&viewfull=1#post434378)

IFS Done (scroll down) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=435864&viewfull=1#post435864)

Rear sway bar - issue resolved (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=436719&viewfull=1#post436719)

Gen 3 Coyote/TKO 600 arrives (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=438573&viewfull=1#post438573)

KRC PS pump, steering shaft, Wilwood pedal box (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=439752&viewfull=1#post439752)

Gen 1 Cover on a Gen 3 Coyote (Forte) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=439815&viewfull=1#post439815)

Fuel Tank, Filter, and Firewall (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=440946&viewfull=1#post440946)

Dupli-color Bed Armor on Panels (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=443716&viewfull=1#post443716)

PS FB Seal Around Tube; E-brake Pulley Mod (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=446042&viewfull=1#post446042)

More Panel Progress; Coyote Gas Pedal Bracket (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=450110&viewfull=1#post450110)

Coyote Pedal Mount and Mod (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=450728&viewfull=1#post450728)

DIY Powder Coating and Breeze Forward Battery Box (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=451110&viewfull=1#post451110)

Fuel Lines (Breeze 3/8" stainless braided PFTE fuel lines) and Pressure Regulator (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=455015&viewfull=1#post455015)

Wheels and Tires Arrive (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=456358&viewfull=1#post456358)

Brake lines (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=457570&viewfull=1#post457570)

Centering the Steering Rack and Steering Wheel - Part 1 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=458095&viewfull=1#post458095)

Radiator (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=459452&viewfull=1#post459452)

E-brake Handle and Cables (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=462224&viewfull=1#post462224)

Steering Centered - Part 2 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=462642&viewfull=1#post462642)

Ron Francis Harness - Part 1 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=464675&viewfull=1#post464675)

Hood Hinges - ditched the wavy washers (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=466041&viewfull=1#post466041)

Coyote Main Power Runs and PDB (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=466315&viewfull=1#post466315)

Ron Francis Harness - Part 2 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=470628&viewfull=1#post470628)

Dash - Part 2; (Thicker [.080] and Removable) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=474548&viewfull=1#post474548)

Dash - Part 2 (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=474551&viewfull=1#post474551)

Ron Francis Harness - Part 3 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=476596&viewfull=1#post476596)

Gas Vapor/Fume Canister (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=477810&viewfull=1#post477810)

Dash - Part 3 (Gauges in and Powder Coated) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=478808&viewfull=1#post478808)

LED Dimmer Solution for Gauge Lighting (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=481828&viewfull=1#post481828)

Push button start: Digital Guard Dawg PBS-1 (and behind dash wiring complete - Part 1) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Trunk-Lid-and-Trunk-Prop-Rod&p=483625&viewfull=1#post483625)

Behind Dash Wiring Complete - Part 2 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=483626&viewfull=1#post483626)

Front LED Turn Signals Dim Issue and New Flasher Solution (scroll multiple) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=483778&viewfull=1#post483778)

DIY Engine Cradle from Scrap Wood for Coyote (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=484114&viewfull=1#post484114)

LED Headlights with Halo DRLs; Weather Pack Connectors (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=485542&viewfull=1#post485542)

Drivetrain Prep for Install - Oil and H2O Pressure Sensors and Tach Connection (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=486538&viewfull=1#post486538)

Ron Francis - Part 4 (Rear Harness Routing and Connections) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=488531&viewfull=1#post488531)

Upper Trunk/Side Panels (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=491474&viewfull=1#post491474)

Coyote/TKO 600 Install (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=491720&viewfull=1#post491720)

Forte Hydraulic Clutch (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=493410&viewfull=1#post493410)

Coyote Harness and Power Steering Lines (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=493893&viewfull=1#post493893)

Moroso Coolant Tank (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=494169&viewfull=1#post494169)

Bleeding the Wilwood Brakes and Clutch (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=494248&viewfull=1#post494248)

Lower Cooling Tube (Boig's) and Vacuum Connections (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Lund-Racing-Tune-is-1-300&p=495013&viewfull=1#post495013)

Coyote's First Howl (AKA First Start) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=495683&viewfull=1#post495683)

Trunk Aluminum, Roll Bars, Breeze Cubby (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=496654&viewfull=1#post496654)

Remote Wilwood Brake Bias and Clutch Pedal Stop (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=497585&viewfull=1#post497585)

460.465USMC

04-22-2023, 11:39 AM

Treadstone Performance Air Straightener and Steering Shaft Finalized (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=498351&viewfull=1#post498351)

Four Wheel Alignment (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=500196&viewfull=1#post500196)

Go-kart! (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=500303&viewfull=1#post500303)

Pinion Angle (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=501339&viewfull=1#post501339)

Trans Tunnel and Starting Carpet (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=503137&viewfull=1#post503137)

Trans Tunnel Complete and a Dead Pedal (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=505125&viewfull=1#post505125)

Underbody Coating (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=505959&viewfull=1#post505959)

Low Fuel Pressure Resolved (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=506360&viewfull=1#post506360)

Carpeting (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=507099&viewfull=1#post507099)

Footwell/Cubby/Trunk Lighting and Headrests (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=507390&viewfull=1#post507390)

Headrest Extensions and Breeze Seat Bases (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=508268&viewfull=1#post508268)

E-brake Boot and CobraHeat Heated Seat Inserts(scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=509392&viewfull=1#post509392)

MetCo Safety Loop (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=510852&viewfull=1#post510852)

NRG Steering Wheel Quick Release (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Just-For-Fun&p=512052&viewfull=1#post512052)

Body Fitment - Sequence of Steps (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=513702&viewfull=1#post513702)

Body on for the First Time - Part 1 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=515727&viewfull=1#post515727)

Body Fitment - Part 2 (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=517180&viewfull=1#post517180)

Body Fitment - Part 3 and Windshield (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=518084&viewfull=1#post518084)

Door Latch Mod (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Windshield-Roll-Bars-Seats-Harnesses-Trunk-Lid&p=518759&viewfull=1#post518759)

Door fitting, Louvers, and Check Straps (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=520281&viewfull=1#post520281)

Hood, Prop Rods, Hood Handles, and Hood Scoop (multiple scrolls) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=522390&viewfull=1#post522390)

Trunk Lid and Prop Rod (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=523889&viewfull=1#post523889)

Radiator Swap and Nomex protection (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=525725&viewfull=1#post525725)

Foam on Footboxes, Louver Final Install, and Fire Extinguisher (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=527132&viewfull=1#post527132)

Windshield, Roll Bar Grommets, Seat Harnesses, Trunk Access Panel, License Plate Light (scroll) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=530079&viewfull=1#post530079)

Aston Lemans, Side Exhaust, and Rear QJs (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=531155&viewfull=1#post531155)

Patriotic Bling (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=531574&viewfull=1#post531574)

Mirrors, Visors, Splash Guards, Wheel Well Liners (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=532533&viewfull=1#post532533)

Legal and First Drive (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=532847&viewfull=1#post532847)

Coyote Engine Cover, Heat Shields for Sidepipes, and Door Panels (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=534162&viewfull=1#post534162)

Radiator Panels, Grilles, Front Plate, and Wheel Spacers (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-LEGAL!-Rad-Aluminum-Grille-Lic-Plate-Wheel-Spacers&p=535801&viewfull=1#post535801)

_________________

I purchased and installed the Breeze trunk prop rod. Then I saw the gas strut kit from FFR is only $50 so I bought and installed it. I really like the gas struts, open the trunk and it just stays up instead of hitting me in the head. I still have the prop rod installed as a backup, after going through what it takes to install it I have no plans of taking it out lol

The trunk struts are a good option, no doubt. Interestingly, since I didn't use the hood struts, ball pivots, etc. I think I basically have the parts for the trunk strut kit. Will likely list these for sale at half price. In my case I would have had to modify the Breeze cubby wall to accommodate the struts. I thought about installing a flanged sleeve in the rib for the prop rod to slip into, but not sure that's really necessary. Since I'll be driving in gel coat for a while, I'll have plenty of time to get some real-world experience to see whether "improvements" like that (and others) are something I want to do before paint.

Mike.Bray

04-22-2023, 01:54 PM

In my case I would have had to modify the Breeze cubby wall to accommodate the struts.

I have the Breeze cubby and had to cut a couple of slots in the bulkhead for the gas cylinders. It wasn't really a big deal at all and I'm very glad I did.

John Ibele

04-23-2023, 11:23 AM

Hey Chris, that picture is one for the archives. Actually, it's a much better way to use your head than mine, which seems to involve seating bolt heads under the car when I'm moving around on the creeper.

Your build is looking great and I appreciate the detail you've put into your build thread. I thought about various options for keeping the trunk open, and if I had the newer hinges, I'd go with the FFR struts. However, I do like the old school vibe of the strut and will be going that route, so your thread detail will give me ahead start.

460.465USMC

04-24-2023, 07:03 PM

Last week marked the 2.5 year point in my build. I did not set a goal for my build, as I didn't want to take away any of the fun. Enjoying the build is more important to me. However, once in a while it's okay to have a little fun, right? This is my first "go-kart" with the body on. Seeing the long hood out in front, and closed in with the doors made it a different experience than original go-kart: more fun.

18 second video just for fun (turn up the volume!) (https://youtube.com/shorts/soYrSl164z4?feature=share)

Before I took the drive, I trimmed the side exhaust exits in the body. The left side needed trimming on the forward edge, and the right side on the rear edge. I have the F5 ball headers, which really help with adjustment, both up/down and in/out.

Left side before trimming

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183482&d=1682379932

Left side after trimming

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183483&d=1682379932

You may notice some chipping of the black ceramic coating. Georgie with Gasn is shipping me replacement pipes. It was discovered mine were not prepped at all before applying the ceramic coating. Georgie uses another vendor for the ceramic coating, so kudos to him for standing behind his product. I heartily recommend Gasn if you are in the market to replace your F5 side exhaust.

As with the other body fitting, my goal here was to get a reasonable gap so I can drive in gelcoat for some time. The left side trimmed up pretty quickly, with just one pass. The passenger side was a whole other matter. It took 4-5 iterations of trim, bolt exhaust back up and check clearance, remove exhaust, and trim again. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat... These holes will need some TLC from the body Pro when the time comes.

Now that I've had a little fun, it's on to next steps. Which means I get to pull the body off for (hopefully) the last time. I have a number of items that need attention/finalizing, such as swap out radiator (old issue -- slow leak from lower left outlet), DS FB side and top panels install, etc. etc.

John Ibele

04-24-2023, 08:55 PM

Sounding great, Chris!

Fman

04-24-2023, 11:13 PM

I have your video on replay, nothing better than the sound of a Cobra coming down the road!:cool:

Blitzboy54

04-25-2023, 07:23 PM

She sounds sexy Chris. The coyote has an underrated exhaust note.

460.465USMC

04-26-2023, 10:18 AM

She sounds sexy Chris. The coyote has an underrated exhaust note.

Try as I might, I can't seem to shake this silly perm-a-grin off my mug. Yep, it's definitely different than the old-school lope (which I love), but it's music to my ears nonetheless.

460.465USMC

05-10-2023, 03:08 PM

I have to admit pulling off the doors, hood, windshield, trunk lid, and the body was a little deflating. But, a necessary step as I have a laundry list of items that are either impossible, or a lot more difficult to complete with the body on.

Radiator swap: The biggest item on the To Do list is swapping the radiator. After First Start last June, I found a small, slow leak in the neck of the lower two inch tube. I patched it with JB Weld, so I could keep moving on to Go-Kart, etc. Long story short, F5 made good and sent me a replacement, but that one took a pretty good hit during transit. It took some back and forth, but they eventually agreed to send me a second one, and don't want me to return the first replacement.

Swapping it out was pretty straight forward, except for the fact I have a number of mods attached to it: (1) Moroso tank sits on the (2) Breeze shroud, (3) upper and (4) lower Breeze mounts. Plus, it was a perfect time to add (5) radiator protection (more on that in a minute). Suffice it to say, it took a lot of measuring and remeasuring to get the replacement radiator in exactly the same spot so everything would align. Precision is not my especiality. But in the end after throwing enough hours at it, everything came together. After a couple heat cycles, I believe I have a leak free cooling system. Yee-haw!

I'm using Gates PowerGrip hose clamps. These thermoplastic clamps have been recommended on the forum. I paid $5 to $6 each. The down side is they are one time use, and not particularly easy to remove. Sure enough, I needed the
Gates removal tool (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-One-Step-Back-to-Go-Forward-(Radiator-Swap)&p=488531&viewfull=1#post488531) to cut them off. It slices them lengthwise without damaging the hose.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184343&d=1683747443

Radiator protection (Nomex): There are several good solutions on the forum. I landed on the Nomex with Z Bar as documented by GTBradley (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Drive-by-wire-Cruise-Control&p=387073&viewfull=1#post387073) and JB in NOVA (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35795-JB-in-NOVA-s-MK4-build-First-overnight-road-trip!&p=465072&viewfull=1#post465072). I used the 5/8" Z Bar as recommended by JB. I liked the price, and the functionality that allows for removal of the Nomex for cleaning or replacement without removing any screws/brackets. It just slides right out.

Here's a view looking into the slot of the Z Bar from Orange Aluminum. I ordered through Amazon (saved a few $$ in shipping).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184334&d=1683734609

Here's a second view from the opposite angle.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184335&d=1683734609

And, here's a view with the Nomex in place. I used a utility knife and straight edge to cut. The Z Bar holds it top and bottom, and the side tanks hold it in place side to side. The camera in my phone "sees" the aluminum fins behind the Nomex in this picture, though my naked eye does not. Hence the silver in the center. It will be painted with high temp. black paint. **EDIT**: it took two cans (12 oz each) to coat one side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184344&d=1683747443

One other notable bit of progress is the headlights and all running lights are installed. I'm leaving the protective film on the headlights as long as possible. The headlights are "Lumen® SB7HLG201D-BLK - 7" Round Black Projector LED Headlights with Switchback Halo". For added daytime driving visibility, I wired the halo to turn on with the ignition. These are as bright as modern daily driver DRLs: just what I wanted. The running lights are LED as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184333&d=1683734359

I'm back to chipping away at the laundry list. Hope to have the body back on within a couple weeks, so I can move forward with some fun stuff like roll bars, Lemans gas cap, mirrors, etc.

460.465USMC

05-18-2023, 01:16 PM

I contacted Lund Racing about a Coyote Gen 3 tune. Apparently, they only communicate via email. No phone conversations available. Bummer. They're quoting me $800 for the tune, and another $500 for the RTD+ device to load it into the PCM via the ODB II port. I've read some threads on Lund tuning with Gen 3, and previous. Sounds like the ngauge option is no longer available because they're no longer in business. But perhaps a used one could be found.

Toadster's Gen3 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45372-working-with-LUND-on-a-Gen3-tune-did-you-use-a-heat-shield&p=518529&viewfull=1#post518529)
richtersand's Gen3 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43605-Lund-Tune-need-RTD&p=499255&viewfull=1#post499255)
jiriza84641's Gen3 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40000-LUND-Tuning&p=459315&viewfull=1#post459315)

I'm assuming there are other options, as $500 is a bit much for me to stomach just to collect engine data and load a tune. What device(s) or solutions have others used their Lund tunes, particularly for Gen3 Coyote?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184667&d=1684433960

JohnK

05-18-2023, 02:32 PM

nuhale

05-18-2023, 02:33 PM

Call around to local Ford tuning/performance shops. Google shows a couple in the Spokane area. I looked at lund for my Gen2 tuning couple years ago. They were at $1k then. I went with a local performance shop here in Chicago that specializes in Ford. Was a fraction of the cost and am overall happy with the result. I had to buy the tuner as well (SCT 7015) but was $300. Don't think I paid more than $800 in total and mine included a couple dyno pulls.

460.465USMC

05-19-2023, 09:36 AM

Yup, that's the going rate with Lund. I paid $1,200 but that was over a year ago. You're correct about the nGauge - no longer an option as they're out of business. I would have preferred that option as well.

Look to see if you have any local dyno tuners in your area that specialize in Mustangs.

Edited to add: also be aware that the RTD software only runs on windows. If you're like me and hate windows and only have Macs at home, you'll need to spring for a cheap windows laptop as well. It's now my beater garage laptop.:p

I knew it was a possibility my current code reader wouldn't work. But wow, I'm struggling to swallow a $500 bill for what will likely amount to be a one time use for me. Going to do some research and visit tuners in my area to see if I can find one I can trust to do the job right. Appreciate your input, John.

Call around to local Ford tuning/performance shops. Google shows a couple in the Spokane area. I looked at lund for my Gen2 tuning couple years ago. They were at $1k then. I went with a local performance shop here in Chicago that specializes in Ford. Was a fraction of the cost and am overall happy with the result. I had to buy the tuner as well (SCT 7015) but was $300. Don't think I paid more than $800 in total and mine included a couple dyno pulls.

Hello Nuhale. Thanks for the weighing in with your experience. Though Spokane is much smaller than Chicago, I'm hopeful I can find someone who's capable and knows what they're doing. I could easily be fooled by someone due to my ignorance on this topic, so will have to be careful. It would also be great to have it tuned on a dyno, so I can avoid WOT with a vehicle I barely know, not to mention yours truly is head of quality control. Not ready for that until I get the car completely dialed in, with lots of seat time and understanding how it handles and brakes, etc.

jiriza84641

05-19-2023, 11:22 AM

Ill able check with Lind to see if they have my tuner locked?
email me at jiriza84641@hotmail.com

460.465USMC

05-26-2023, 03:31 PM

Tuner update: the first shop I called here in Spokane seems promising. The guy is a ASE certified master mechanic, and taught engine performance/racing class at a local community college for 16 years. He has a dyno, so instant performance feedback to dial in the tune would be a real bonus compared to WOT on the public roadways. The cost would likely be a few hundred dollars less (he charges no more that six hours w/dyno at $150/hr) than Lund's $1,300 (still choking on that one). We'll see what happens when I get to that point.

Build update: continuing to chip away at the build. Here are a few of the items I have checked off the list before final body on:

Steering shaft finalized: rotated steering shaft one spline to center the steering wheel. I also applied blue Loctite to the M5-0.8 metric screws (8 ea) that secure the u-joints. Replaced the 5/16"-18 set screw with a longer one (3/4"). The kit supplied 1/2" wasn't long enough for the nut to grab enough threads. This is the set screw that fits into the dimple we drill into the middle section of the steering shaft, just before it enters the footbox.
Rocker panels: installed 5/16"-18 rivnuts on the 2" chassis tube to secure the rocker panels. Wow, the bit is huge (17/32") for the rivnuts. Of course, I didn't have one on hand. (Same story for all of the odd sized drill bits needed for the various rivnuts (#8, #10, 1/4", and now 5/16") I've installed. Slotted the four holes in the rocker panel, and and slightly oversized them for the 5/16" SS button head screws.
Closed up DS FB. Phew. Can't say I wasn't a little apprehensive about sealing it. Did my best to check or orient everything I could think of that will be difficult to access afterward.

* I used 10-32 rivnuts (7 ea) for the DS FB access cover--they will be accessible with the body on. When I was drilling and fitting the FBs about 1.5 years ago, I got a little over zealous with the holes in the access cover. I think some or all of the extra ones will be hidden once the body is back on (hoping). I can always make a replacement cover from scrap 0.040 aluminum if they're visible.
Foam insulation on outside of FBs: Per recommend from Mr. Kleiner, I installed HVAC cushion seal (2.25"x2.25") around outside of both footboxes. 3M Super77 to glue them. Spent quite a bit of time taping off and putting down towels to protect from overspray on the PS. Then I wondered why I didn't apply the Super77 on the ground with a cardboard backer. Avoid the prep time and no chance of overspray on car? I'm in. I did. It worked. That foam seal is definitely on there. First time using 3M Super77. Handy product.
Tightened header bolts: found a few that needed a little tightening. I hadn't touched them since initial installation. They've now been through quite a few heat cycles.
Sealed chassis ground connections at four corners: applied black silicone RTV on the ground connections at all four corners (a precaution I got from Edwardb).
Grounds for Lemans cap and fuel tank: I took advantage of the wide open access and installed the Lemans Cap ground connection to the chassis. While I was at it I also installed a ground for the gas tank. Crimped and soldered the ring terminals, and added a dab of dielectric grease before sealing up with the RTV.

Here a couple of the M5-0.8 metric screws are visible that received a dab of Loctite (blue). You can see why I swapped out the 5/16'-18 set screw for a longer one. Original 1/2" length set screw shown did not provide enough thread engagement for the nut.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184947&d=1685129885

Slotted hole in rocker panel to provide a little in/out adjustment to get good door alignment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184946&d=1685129819

Driver's side FB closed up. HVAC foam seal installed with 3M Super77.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184948&d=1685130045

View of PS FB with foam seal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184949&d=1685130045

View of DS FB access cover with 10-32 SS button heads. Whoops! Too many holes drilled in the cover.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184950&d=1685130045

Ground connections sealed with black silicone RTV.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184952&d=1685131667

New location for the vapor canister. It's rearward from the original location to give clearance for the splash guards. Thanks to Mr. Kleiner for the location help. Also, the Lemans cap and fuel tank ground connections.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184945&d=1685129750

Still feels like I'm running in place with these small tasks. But the list is getting shorter.

Happy building.

460.465USMC

06-12-2023, 04:56 PM

It's been a couple weeks, but I'm making steady progress (at a Chris rate). Quite a few things checked off my list. Many are quite small, but here are a few I could photograph.

Doors: Sanded down horizontal lip that runs along the top inside of the doors. I also sanded a generous radius on the inside of the doors to help with clearance when opening/closing.
Hood scoop: I managed to incorrectly order two different lengths of SS button head 10-32 screws from McMaster to secure the scoop to the hood. No one's fault but mine. The 3/4" screws were too long; the 1/2" were too short. The 5/8" version would have been perfect. So, nothing to do but cut down 19 of the 3/4" screws to the correct length. Added a dab of Loctite blue to the acorn nuts.
Rear cockpit carpet fix. Cut back a one inch strip of carpet along the top right of the rear cockpit wall to solve this unsightly gap (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-DS-FB-Closed-for-Good&p=517181&viewfull=1#post517181). (For some reason my body doesn't come over the top of the cockpit wall far enough, and stopped my carpet just shy (3/8") of the top of the wall). Glued in a replacement strip that extends above the cockpit wall. This closed the gap, but now there's a noticeable line where the new strip meets the old. Ugh: fixed the head of that issue, but then the tail fell off.
Leveled headers: my PS header was almost 1.5" higher than DS header. I loosened the motor mount nuts and lifted on DS header by hand. The motor rotated toward the PS surprisingly easily. Unfortunately, the motor mount pin bottomed out on the PS. The DS needs to rotate up another 5/16" for both sides to be level. I should get some additional help from the adjustable ball flange, but my guess is it won't be perfect. We'll see how close when I remount the side exhaust in the near future. Note to self: level the headers during drivetrain install. Wish I would have thought about that at the time.
Louvers: installed the louvers with 10-32 perforated studs and HSRF. First time using that product. I like it because it dries fast (sandable in 30 min), but still has a reasonable amount of working time (10 min). Ventilation is important given the fumes. Painted over HSRF with flat black to match the Dupli-color underbody coating reasonably close.
Fire extinguisher: I like Fman's setup (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35778-Fmans-Dart-427-build-9818-1-quot-rear-wheel-spacers&p=444388&viewfull=1#post444388). Tapped 1/4"-20 holes into the 2"x3" chassis behind the cockpit wall, and secured with flat head screws. It came with stainless hose clamps, but I'm trying the black cable ties for now. These come in Red, Black, Chrome, or Platinum colors, and prices differ based upon the finish (chrome=$$$$).

Sanded down seam where fiberglass sections come together. This way I won't lose as much bark from the side of my side arm while driving in gel coat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185758&d=1686602744

The best way I've found so far to cut down screws is to find a piece of scrap metal, and drill a hole the same diameter of the screw. Then thread a nut to hold it securely while cutting. This particular piece of scrap also has a 1/4" hole that's beveled to cut down button head or flat head 1/4" screws. The angle grinder makes quick work of the removal. Then I file the end square with a flat file, and remove any burs. Then hit it briefly with a tap to true-up the threads. If I had a dollar for every fastener I've cut to size on this build...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185753&d=1686600587

I followed the perforated stud approach to mount the louvers. Note to self: save yourself some time and redo by installing these before applying body undercoating.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185752&d=1686600587

Here's a view of the PS louver installed looking from inside the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185754&d=1686600587

View of the DS louver installed. These are the assembled version available from F5. The openings F5 cut needed massaging to get them equal distance from the outer edges to the fins on the sides, and to get the top and side angles parallel to each other.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185755&d=1686600608

Fire extinguisher installed between the seats.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185750&d=1686600587

View of the mounting bracket from the top. I have since removed the plastic cable tie.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185751&d=1686600587

I have several items in flight. Hope to wrap up a number of these items soon, including Vinegaroon of leather door check straps and lap belts, finalize seat harness install, etc. I just got the body back on yesterday for the final time (hopefully!). That feels good.

Happy building!

cc2Arider

06-12-2023, 06:48 PM

Good update on the latest details :)

I suppose I could look on the FFR website, but it surprised me that you wrote they offer a different set of louvers(the assembled version). I had heard of other vendors that offered them.

It might be something I consider since the kit-supplied louvers seem flimsy...was that the reason you went with a different set?

Craig C

460.465USMC

06-13-2023, 09:03 AM

Hi Craig. Yes, that's correct. I also think the kit supplied louvers are a bit flimsy, and did not have confidence my hand-bending of the fins would come out reasonably well. They sell the set for $85 (plus shipping). Check out the link here: https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/15659-assembled-side-louver-set/. I don't know how these compare to other vendors' louvers, but I'm pretty happy with the quality from F5.

460.465USMC

06-26-2023, 02:24 PM

Last time, I mentioned the body was back on for good (hopefully). It's a great site to see. From there I moved on to the following:

Windshield
Vinegaroon: I went with this option because I like the contrast of the white stitching against the black. I'm not sure if I didn't have the vinegar to steel wool proportions correct, but my size 00 steel wool didn't breakdown very well in the white vinegar. Even after a couple weeks. It looks okay, I guess, but not sure I would do this again. Here's a link I found on the forum quite a while back that describes vinegaroon (https://www.instructables.com/Vinegaroon-Black-Leather-Dye/).
Roll bars: I previously drilled the roll bars, so the challenge at this point was more the trim rings. I bought all my trim rings (and harness trim plates) from Replicaparts (Mike Everson). (Compared to the F5 trim rings, I noticed they show much less rubber between the roll bar and the metal ring). I opted to use some 3/4" 10-32 SS button heads and locknuts I had on hand instead of the supplied SS taper head screws. I can confirm marking, drilling, and installing the rings is tedious work. Glad I went slow and took my time. As other builders have noted, there are a couple locations that are particularly difficult to get the nut on.
Seat Harnesses. I anchored the sub belt through the Breeze steel seat base, and down through the steel floor pan. Used 8-32 SS button heads with nylon lock nuts to secure the trim plates.
Seats: With the Breeze seat bases previously installed, the seats went in without fanfare. Just had to clip the seat cushion down onto the bar on the bottom side of the frame, and route the seat heater wire through a hole I cut in the ABS plastic. In a previous post, I showed how I swapped the Breeze supplied hardboard for ABS plastic based upon advice from the forum (water could be an issue with the hardboard).
Trunk lid access panel: used a 5 gallon bucket to bend the panel around to get it close to the same curve as the trunk lid.
License plate bracket: glad I double checked dimension between the #10 screws, as the template in the manual was more than 1/16" narrow.

Is it belt and suspenders to tap the posts and install lock nuts? Maybe, but I like it. Here's the PS side. It took a couple washers on the bottom and one on the top to fill the space so as to minimize tension on the brackets (and hopefully avoid a broken windshield later on). I used a longer 1/2" bolt on the bottom to accommodate the two washers.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186362&d=1687805631

DS: no washers, as it's easier to add them to the PS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186363&d=1687805631

Check straps and lap belts after Vinegaroon treatment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186365&d=1687805631

Here's a look at the Replicaparts roll bar trim rings.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186366&d=1687805631

I liked John Ibele's set screw idea better than the button heads I used during initial roll bar fitment. These 5/16"x24x1.25" sit flush and are pretty invisible. Great idea, John.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186367&d=1687805687

Grandpa's 3/8" offset wrench was just the ticket to reach the elusive 10-32 nut on the back of the trunk lid catch pin. Not much room in there to reach it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186364&d=1687805631

Seat harnesses in, and seats installed. Makes me want to drive it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186368&d=1687805687

460.465USMC

06-26-2023, 02:25 PM

License plate bracket installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186369&d=1687805687

Like others have done, I routed the license plate light wires inside the trunk lid. Drilled a 1/2" opening near the right hinge bracket, and a 3/8" ID grommet. Also, installed a cushion clamp on the hinge bracket to keep the wiring in place. I put a flashlight behind the trunk lid so I knew where to reach in with a flexible grabber claw tool to grab it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186370&d=1687805687

I installed Dark Water Customs access panel cover for a more finished look (will be painted to match the body). A five gallon bucket worked pretty well to form it to the curve in the trunk lid. Thanks to JohnK for the soft material rivet idea.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186372&d=1687805744

Of course I had to test the license plate light.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186371&d=1687805687

Ted G

06-28-2023, 12:42 PM

Looking great!

460.465USMC

07-06-2023, 11:36 AM

Next up was installing the Aston Lemans cap. This provided me yet another opportunity to relocate my homemade fuel vapor canister. Third time's the charm? Ugh. This time it was to avoid any interference with the fuel filler tube. I used 8-32 SS button heads and lock nuts instead of the supplied taper head course screws. It's just good to know there are nuts and washers on the other side. I drilled a small hole next in the recessed area (al la John Ibele) to provide a drainage path in case of spilled fuel (or rainwater!).

I will say getting the stiff rubber hose connected to the Aston Lemans cap and filler tube was a bear. Wow. Even with a little bit of soapy water it was all I could do to get it on. Once on it really stiffens up the metal fill tube nicely. Solid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186924&d=1688659647

And here's the Aston Lemans cap. Of course, I had to add a gallon of fuel through the completed filler tube just to savor this milestone...and to confirm no leaks. All set.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186893&d=1688658161

Side exhaust with CobraStuff heat shields: I reworked the DS exhaust opening in the body to better match the PS contour. The good news is the ball flange allowed me to get the pipes the same height off the ground on both sides, and parallel to the body/ground. This was a relief since my headers are not quite equal distance off the ground as noted previously.

DS exhaust with CobraStuff heat shields installed. I bought these in raw stainless, so had them powder coated so they blend in better with the Gas-N pipes (Touring model).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186895&d=1688658161

Drooping side pipe fix (my attempt): Given the feedback on the forum about this issue, I ditched the supplied rubber exhaust hangers and installed these from Moss Motors (1 3/8" x 2 7/8" x7/16"--the hole spacing exactly matches the supplied rubber exhaust hangers--bonus!). This is the same idea Fman documented (thanks Travis!), but just a different strap. I doubled them up for strength, and to fill the gap between the 2"x2" chassis tube and the bracket arm. I hope this does the trick.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186894&d=1688658161

I hung the side brackets with 5/16"-18 riv nuts (a la Edwardb) instead of drilling through the 2"x2" chassis tubes and into the FBs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186896&d=1688658161

Rear QJs: I'm using the Kleiner rear QJ mod. I bought a section of 7/16"-14 threaded rod to thread into the coupler nuts. The kit supplied tubes worked fine (now powder coated), but I had to trim the longer ones (inside trunk) in order to fit the nut and washer that's used to adjust the rear valance to match the trunk lid.

Here's a view of the DS. The bottom one looks the same.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186898&d=1688658198

And the QJ all put together. These are the QJ plates from Replicaparts ($30) (http://www.replicaparts.com/Rear%20quick%20jack%20plate%20page.htm). The fronts QJs are installed as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186897&d=1688658161

Build on!

cc2Arider

07-06-2023, 05:19 PM

Nice work Chris! I like the helpful tips throughout :)

Craig C

Railroad

07-06-2023, 05:51 PM

I noticed you have 2 bolts in your side pipe bracket. Years ago, it seemed to be determined this increased the potential for the exhaust tube to fracture around the bracket. The deemed solution was to use 1 bolt, allowing more of a pivot point.
Very neat work, with some great ideas, solutions, in your build.
I am sure some of the more experienced builders can confirm or correct the number of bolts issue.

460.465USMC

07-07-2023, 08:48 AM

Nice work Chris! I like the helpful tips throughout :)

Craig C

Thanks, Craig. I've received so much help from the forum, I just hope I can be of some help and give back a little.

I noticed you have 2 bolts in your side pipe bracket. Years ago, it seemed to be determined this increased the potential for the exhaust tube to fracture around the bracket. The deemed solution was to use 1 bolt, allowing move of a pivot point.
Very neat work, with some great ideas, solutions, in your build.
I am sure some of the more experienced builders can confirm or correct the number of bolts issue.

Hi Railroad. I appreciate your keen eye. It's very helpful. Yes, I've read about the cracked mount and the two bolts issue. However, I assumed this was limited to the F5 pipes? I emailed Georgie yesterday, and he said in his 17 years of building his Gas-N pipes he's never had this issue. I welcome additional feedback from other builders with Gas-N pipes, if theirs cracked with two bolts.

facultyofmusic

07-07-2023, 01:38 PM

And the QJ all put together. These are the QJ plates from Replicaparts ($30) (http://www.replicaparts.com/Rear%20quick%20jack%20plate%20page.htm). The fronts QJs are installed as well.
Build on!

I COMPLETELY forgot I bought those too! Nice progress Chris, and thanks for the reminder! :p Now I gotta go dig it out...

Fman

07-08-2023, 07:50 AM

egchewy79

07-08-2023, 08:09 AM

just curious, will the powdercoat on the heat shields hold up to the temps of the pipes? I have polished stainless on mine but didn't know.

460.465USMC

07-08-2023, 12:13 PM

Chris those heat shields look great on that black side pipe, nice work! as you drive the car more you will probably realize that the vulnerable spot to burn your leg is actually closer to the bend at the end of the side pipe. I ended up re-adjusting and shifting mine towards that area.

Thanks for the heads-up, Travis. To slide the shields down I will need to either drill new holes, or buy a larger clamp for the forward position. Not a huge deal either way if that will provide better protection. Honestly, I'm a little surprised how hot the heat shields get. I measured the pipe around 300 deg or so, and the heat shield was only ~100 degrees cooler. That's still plenty warm to burn the skin.

just curious, will the powdercoat on the heat shields hold up to the temps of the pipes? I have polished stainless on mine but didn't know.

Hi Chewy. Good question on the powder coat. I'm taking a bit of a gamble betting the powder coat will hold up. The hottest I've measured the pipe is 315 deg. in certain areas, which is well below the temp for baking the PC. Plus, there's a small air gap between the pipe and the heat shield. I can't find a local ceramic coating shop, so will proceed as is and find out how it holds up. Worst case is if the PC doesn't hold up, I'll remove them and ship them out for ceramic coating.

460.465USMC

07-11-2023, 10:18 AM

A couple months ago I saw this flag and mount on a fellow forum member's fantastic build (jiriza84641). It's a bit early to be adding bling, as my build is still in gel coat. But it was a no-brainer for me to make this exception. It is a very high quality piece, made right here in the good ol' US of A. It's solid.

No, those aren't my pink fingernails. My color of choice is orange. :p My teenage daughter played Vanna White, so I could photograph the flag at full furl.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187117&d=1689087457

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187118&d=1689087457

I'm working through the splash guard and Vraptor wheel well liner install. It's very time consuming, but I'm making progress. I can already see the Vraptor liners are going to be a really nice addition to minimize the amount of rocks/pebbles/sand and misc. road debris from flinging into the body.

I decided to put a stake in the ground and schedule my state vehicle inspection. I want to drive this thing before the snow flies! After I finish the splash guards/liners, I'll install the mirrors, wind wings, and sun visors. Then off to inspection and licensing. I'll have a list of misc. "non-functional" bits to complete post-licensing, such as nose aluminum, nose grill, aluminum sill plates, etc. If all goes well, this plan will get me on the road in the not so distant future. Can't wait!

Happy building!

D Stand

07-11-2023, 11:15 PM

The flag, and car looks great! I just got mine legal over here in Bothell. You are going to have a blast getting it one the road. Care to share where to buy that flag?

Dale

460.465USMC

07-12-2023, 09:10 AM

The flag, and car looks great! I just got mine legal over here in Bothell. You are going to have a blast getting it one the road. Care to share where to buy that flag?

Dale

Hi Dale. Yes, it’s been a long haul, and I’m very much looking forward to getting some driving miles.

I’ll text you the contact for the flag. The gentleman was great to work with, and shipped it right out to me.

For anyone else interested in the flag, just send me a PM.

460.465USMC

07-22-2023, 09:20 PM

I'm chipping away at my list before the State Patrol inspection. I finally finished the splash guards and Vraptor wheel well liners. Phew, getting those to fit are tedious. My 275/17 tires up front don't make it any easier.

All of my splash guards required some trimming. Some more than others. Here's an example of the front PS splash guard where I cut off the kick out on the bottom, notched the top right (room for fan wire), and drilled holes for the 10-32 screws that thread into the nut serts I installed way back when.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187547&d=1690077119

I anchored the outside corners of all the splash guards with 10-32 perforated studs, glued in place with HSRF. Great idea I picked up from the forum (Edwardb and others). This really stiffens the splash guards, plus no visible screws or rivets through the body. Here's a view of the DS stud. I left the stud long in case I need to adjust later on. The HSRF will be painted to blend in with the underbody coating (not that they would be visible except when I'm underneath the car).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187546&d=1690077119

Here's an example of the Vraptor liners. This is the rear side of the front PS wheel well. I secured the liners to the splash guards with 8-32 black oxide coated SS screws and washers, and lock nuts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187548&d=1690077119

Forward view. I added an L-bracket to the bottom 3/4" tube to hold the front of the liner in place. Ditto for the DS.
The liners wedge pretty well in the wheel well with the included bulb seal. Solid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187549&d=1690077119

Next up was the mirrors, visors, and wind wings. Not sure why F5 has their logo (circled) facing the cockpit instead of outward?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187550&d=1690077119

Closer view of how the mirror attaches to the wind wing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187552&d=1690077146

If there's a tricky part, it would be the sun visors. Lots of warnings about cracked windshields from threading in the supplied mounting screws too far. The windshield comes pre-tapped for the F5 sun visor mounts. I measured the depth of the tapped holes beforehand to ensure the mounting screws wouldn't come into contact with the windshield frame, putting pressure on the glass.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187551&d=1690077146

With mirrors, wind wings, and liners installed, the next logical step was to go for a drive in the neighborhood, right? I live in the country, so use "neighborhood" loosely. It was in the nineties today. I'm happy to report no engine temp issues. The car is tracking straight from my initial alignment, and the steering is responsive. So far, so good with my DIY alignment. I'm pleased with these Breeze side mirrors. They provide a decent view, and don't vibrate, so the reflected image isn't distorted. The rear view mirror is a bit small (compared to DDs), but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Build on!

cc2Arider

07-22-2023, 09:36 PM

Nice progress Chris! Are the VRaptor liners made from Kydex? They kinda look like it. I wonder if they can be shaped with a little heat?

Craig C

460.465USMC

07-23-2023, 02:41 PM

Nice progress Chris! Are the VRaptor liners made from Kydex? They kinda look like it. I wonder if they can be shaped with a little heat?

Craig C

Thanks, Craig. The description on his website for the liners is "durable textured plastic": http://vraptorspeedworks.com/mk-4-wheel-well-liner-kit/. I imagine if you reach out to Shane he will be able to give you more detail on the material.

460.465USMC

07-23-2023, 02:44 PM

Oops. Meant to include a photo of the rear view mirror install. I ordered the rear view mirror bracket from Dark Water Customs. Nice piece. He supplies nuts that fit into the channel, and the associated flat head screws. Here's the view from above:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187736&d=1690141346

Papa

07-23-2023, 09:20 PM

... Not sure why F5 has their logo (circled) facing the cockpit instead of outward?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187550&d=1690077119

Chris,

Any chance you have the wings on the wrong side? The logos are different than what my wind wings have, but the logos are readable from the outside of the car. I also mounted my brackets opposite of how yours are, but mine could be wrong.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187758&d=1690165949

Dave

JohnK

07-24-2023, 01:54 AM

Next up was the mirrors, visors, and wind wings. Not sure why F5 has their logo (circled) facing the cockpit instead of outward?

Hey Chris - nice progress! I've been traveling for a few weeks so getting caught up on your build thread. It's looking great.

I ran into the same issue with the wind wings. I don't think they were designed with the Breeze mirrors in mind. If you install them the way you did (and the way I did) with the mounting brackets facing forward in order to sandwich the visor between the bracket and mirror, then you end up with the logos backwards. If you install them the way Papa shows with the mirror nested inside the upper mounting bracket then you can get the logos facing out. The way you did it seemed more secure to me so I put up with the backward logos.

Nice progress Chris! Are the VRaptor liners made from Kydex? They kinda look like it. I wonder if they can be shaped with a little heat?

Craig C

I believe the wheel well liners are made of ABS. It is definitely heat-moldable as it's the same material that Alex used to use for his glove box kit.

460.465USMC

07-24-2023, 01:51 PM

Chris,

Any chance you have the wings on the wrong side? The logos are different than what my wind wings have, but the logos are readable from the outside of the car. I also mounted my brackets opposite of how yours are, but mine could be wrong.

Dave

Hi Dave. Thanks for your input. As best I can tell, I have them mounted per F5 instructions--see picture below. I think it's possible to swap mine to get the logo facing outward, and looks like yours have been doing just fine like that for some time. But I think I will stay as is for now, as the small black logo isn't very visible either way, and I like how the plexiglass is sandwiched between the mirror and the bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187770&d=1690224467

460.465USMC

07-26-2023, 03:31 PM

As of yesterday my Roadster is legal. Wahoo!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187837&d=1690398766

The amount of red tape in WA is still pretty minimal, and the process fairly easy (or so I thought!) to title and register a F5 Roadster. The process I followed has three parts: (1) obtain weight at a certified scale, (2) State Patrol (WSP) inspection, and (3) fill out paperwork and pay sales tax at a local licensing agent. Walk out the door with license plates in hand. Parts (1) and (2) went smoothly, and the officers were friendly and helpful. Part (3) is where things went south.

I'll spare you most of the gory (and boring) details, but suffice it to say Part (3) was not smooth sailing. The discussion at the licensing office took an unexpected turn because WSP identified my Roadster as a 2020 model year. That designation triggered questions: "Where is the odometer disclosure from F5?", and "Where is your EPA emissions certification sticker showing your vehicle is compliant with California state emissions requirements?" (You read that correctly, WA state follows California's emission requirements). Huh? None of the other WA state licensing experiences I've read on the forum mentioned these. Nor did my conversations with other in-state builders. The helpful lady at the licensing office made a couple calls to two different subject matter experts. But after 1+ hours it was clear I couldn't move forward without these items.

Back out to WSP to see if they could shed some light on the 2020 model year determination. They don't take walk-ins, so I drove back out there at risk, hoping they would talk to me anyway since I was there earlier. They were happy to chat again and genuinely wanted to help. Long story short, they looked up several years worth of F5 and kit vehicle inspections and found all of them had been designated with the same model year as indicated on the F5 MCO--manufacturers certificate of origin. This is the piece of paper with the make/model, year, and serial number F5 sends about a month after you receive your kit. So, the issue was not related to the State Patrol designation. It was then suggested I try another licensing office.

At this point I'm 3+ hours into my licensing experience. Trying to look at the bright side, I reminded myself I'm legally driving the Roadster back and forth across town between the licensing office and WSP. Legal, because the licensing office gave me a two day transit permit. And, it was a beautiful, temperate day to do so. This can't be all bad, right?

Guess what, same experience at the next licensing office. Okay. I began to realize something must have changed in the state's licensing procedure for kit vehicles (designated as KITV in WA). At this point, I was 95% sure I'd be going home to lick my wounds and regroup. While still at the second licensing office, as a last ditch effort I called the same expert the licensing offices had just been speaking to. (I got their phone number courtesy of the helpful officers at WSP).

Well, you already know how this ends. The conversation with the expert was productive. I was successful in getting my Roadster licensed. The title should arrive in 4-6 weeks. All said and done it took 6.5 hours, so perseverance and patience prevailed.

I have clocked 350 miles so far. Many of them were driven going back and forth from home to WSP to licensing office, times two. With plates installed, I drove about 100 miles last night. Smiles for miles.

Issues so far:

Fault Codes: P0507 ("idle air control system RPM higher than expected") and P0100 ("Generic"; "Mass or volume air flow A circuit"). These triggered one time, somewhere around the 100 mile mark. I'm assuming they're related to the MAF position, as I haven't yet had the Coyote tuned. I reset them and they haven't come back yet, and there was no noticeable change in engine performance when they were active.
Lid of Aston Lemans cap fell apart.
Need to track down the annoying rattle that I hear on bumpy roads. It seems to be coming from behind the dash.
Side pipes are slowly starting to sag. I'd say at least one inch after 300 miles. Bummer! Thought I had solved this one up front.
Sounds like one of the PS rear e-brake pads is rubbing slightly. Requires further investigation.

I got this surprise the second time I filled up. Thankfully, the spring, metal cover, and screw were not lost. Nothing some Loctite won't solve.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187838&d=1690398820

I'm looking forward to sorting out these issues and more driving. As I mentioned last time, I have a number of items left to complete, but those are lower priority than driving right now. :cool: I'm going to double check with Ford Performance, but from what I understand I should get 500+ miles on the motor before the professional tune. Shouldn't be an issue to drive that much by week's end. :p

Papa

07-26-2023, 03:38 PM

Congrats, Chris! Looking forward to meeting you face-to-face when you are out my way.

Dave

Jeff Kleiner

07-26-2023, 05:01 PM

Big congratulations Chris. I’ve enjoyed following along and talking with you! Now go enjoy some miles :cool:

Jeff

egchewy79

07-26-2023, 05:32 PM

Congrats. Now you can get pulled over for a completely unrelated issue now!

D Stand

07-26-2023, 07:19 PM

Congrats on being legal Chris! Go burn up the rear tires…

Dale

Railroad

07-26-2023, 07:25 PM

Nigel Allen

07-26-2023, 10:20 PM

Nice job mate. Have watched your build and loved every bit of it. Thanks for taking the time to document it here. Wishing you many happy miles.

Cheers,

Nigel
187848

Ted G

07-27-2023, 09:04 AM

Looks great Chris and congrats on getting your plates. I'm still waiting for mine in CA but have a two month pass and just hit 700 miles last night. Think I'll post a page with my issues thus far as well. I know this helped me during my build when other posted this.

Semper Fi (From an Army guy)

460.465USMC

07-27-2023, 09:21 AM

Congrats, Chris! Looking forward to meeting you face-to-face when you are out my way.

Dave

Thanks, Dave! You've been a real help along the way. Yes, looking forward to meeting you as well, and hopefully seeing your Roadster in-person.

Big congratulations Chris. I’ve enjoyed following along and talking with you! Now go enjoy some miles :cool:

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff! Driving is my #1 priority now until the snow flies. :cool: Your advice and help along the way has been so key for me. Thanks for patiently answering so many of my dumb questions. I'm sure I still have a few more in me. :p

Congrats. Now you can get pulled over for a completely unrelated issue now!

Doh! I hope not. Thanks, Chewy. Appreciate your insights into my build along the way.

460.465USMC

07-27-2023, 09:29 AM

On the screw and spring in the filler cap, the screw has an ideal position and it is not tightened down.
Your blue loctite and testing is the right answer.
Congrats on your jumping through all the hoops.

Ah, good insight, Railroad. Thanks for this tip, and a number of other good insights along the way. Much appreciated.

Nice job mate. Have watched your build and loved every bit of it. Thanks for taking the time to document it here. Wishing you many happy miles.

Cheers,

Nigel
187848

Thanks, Nigel. It's been so much fun, and dare I say addicting. I also appreciate you hanging out on the forum and helping us less experienced guys with tips and advice.

Thanks for the photo of your build. Beautiful!

Looks great Chris and congrats on getting your plates. I'm still waiting for mine in CA but have a two month pass and just hit 700 miles last night. Think I'll post a page with my issues thus far as well. I know this helped me during my build when other posted this.

Semper Fi (From an Army guy)

Thanks, Ted. It may still be in gel coat, but the smile on my face while driving is just as big.

Semper Fi! My son was in the Army, attached to the 161st SOAR in Fort Campbell. My niece was a captain in the Army as well, so Army is family to me.

Ted G

07-27-2023, 10:09 AM

I was also at Fort Campbell... Go 101st Airborne!! I was a medic in Field Artillery

danmas

07-27-2023, 10:59 AM

I was also at Fort Campbell... Go 101st Airborne!! I was a medic in Field Artillery
I was a red leg also!

Papa

07-27-2023, 12:43 PM

I was also at Fort Campbell... Go 101st Airborne!! I was a medic in Field Artillery

I was a red leg also!

101st Air Assault here! Screaming Eagle or according to the helicopter pilots, dope-on-a-rope.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187880&d=1690480103

Ted G

07-27-2023, 01:20 PM

Air Assault!

460.465USMC

07-28-2023, 11:45 AM

Congrats on being legal Chris! Go burn up the rear tires…

Dale

It's a great feeling to finally get to this point. I will need to let some smoke out of the rear tires. :)

Blitzboy54

07-30-2023, 06:45 PM

Semper Fi my friend. Congratulations, I’m super happy for you. I hope to meet up someday.

mmklaxer

07-31-2023, 04:34 AM

Congrats!! Another Red Leg here, though planted firmly on the ground during my time at Fort Hood...

460.465USMC

07-31-2023, 10:45 AM

Semper Fi my friend. Congratulations, I’m super happy for you. I hope to meet up someday.

Thanks, Jesse. Yes, it would be cool to meet up. Is Wisconsin the halfway point? :p

Semper Fi!

Congrats!! Another Red Leg here, though planted firmly on the ground during my time at Fort Hood...

Thanks, sir. It's been fun to see your build progressing.

460.465USMC

07-31-2023, 10:48 AM

I'm going to double check with Ford Performance, but from what I understand I should get 500+ miles on the motor before the professional tune. Shouldn't be an issue to drive that much by week's end. :p

Update: 438 miles clocked in so far. I spoke with Ford Performance on Friday, and they said there is no special requirements for break-in before the dyno session. I expect to have at least 600-700 miles (just for fun) by then, and will get on the dyno with a fresh oil change/filter.

460.465USMC

08-08-2023, 08:51 PM

Priority #1 is under control: driving and smiling. Up to 620 miles now. I underestimated the level of confidence I'd have driving a car I built. To be honest it lacks a bit. I suppose extra caution is best during the shakedown phase, which for me is probably in the 1,000 mile range. A couple brief spurts up to 80+ MPH to pass on the highway, but pretty tame otherwise. So far so good.

One of the items I'm most surprised (pleasantly) about is how well the car tracks given my DIY alignment. No complaints so far.

Been able to knock out some small items between drives. :p Here's what I've been up to.

Herb's door panels: I figured I'd wait until paint, but quickly realized there would be just too much storage utility to leave them collecting dust on the shelf. So, I mounted the door panels. Nothing special here other than they fit like a glove. I'm happy I chose the larger pocket option.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188521&d=1691542776

Coyote engine cover: as mentioned previously, I bought a modified Coyote Gen 1 cover from Forte. The initial fitment was good. But once the silicone elbow was in place it did not fit. Not even very close. I trimmed it in about four places--see blue arrows below--and it fits now. I used an air saw to make the rough cuts, then finished with round and flat hand files. Worked pretty good. I'm planning to add some color when the rest of the car is painted.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188524&d=1691542953

Side pipe heat control: I mentioned before how hot the heat shields get I bought from Cobrastuff. With only 1/16"-1/8" air gap away from the pipe, I'm honestly not that surprised. They get hot enough to burn skin quickly. Long story short, I picked up a couple 4" clamps from Cobrastuff which mount to the 4" muffler section. The 3" clamps at the rear were reused, but with 1/4" spacers added. The result is I doubled the air gap, and dramatically dropped the temperature of the heat shields.

I did a quick comparison between additional air gap and the smaller gap. With the pipes at operating temperature, here's what I found:

Before (1/16"-1/8" gap). Forward edge of shield: 220 deg. Middle: 245 deg. Rear: 178 deg.
After (~1/4" gap). Forward edge of shield: 138 deg. Middle: 160 deg. Rear: 125 deg.

The shield also better matches the contour of the pipe. Whereas before it pulled in at the corners where it attaches to the clamps. I also slid the shield to the rear about 3", so it better protects where your foot naturally wants to go when exiting (good tip from Fman).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188522&d=1691542776

A very kind forum member sent my wife and I a memento of our son, Ben. I found a very good spot to hang it from the dash, just forward of the shifter. We wish so much he were here to go for a ride.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188523&d=1691542836

Next week, I have an appointment with a local tuner who also has a dyno. I'm very interested to experience the before and after. The Coyote is running pretty darn good right now. However, the exhaust smells like it's running a bit rich, and it has thrown the two air sensor related fault codes a couple times now.

Enjoy your build.

Blitzboy54

08-10-2023, 07:35 PM

I wish Ben could go for a ride with you too. Lovely gesture indeed.

I wish you and your family well.

M22_COBRA

08-11-2023, 12:45 PM

In all my experience in fighting heat in race cars... Air gap is key, but air gap with air movement past it is KING ( false floors, honeycomb / heat sync board, offset clam shell exhaust shields....)
Really nice build you got going, I'm enjoying the read as I'm in research mode right now.

PS - The Keychain is awesome. I plan on doing a memoriam with challenge coins for fallen family between the dash and the tunnel.

460.465USMC

08-11-2023, 05:51 PM

Hi M22 and welcome to the F5 forum. I don't have any racecar experience, but benefits of an airgap is one of the many things I've learned about from the seasoned builders/engineers/mechanics on this forum. No doubt there is a formula somewhere to estimate the benefit. I was taken aback to see the benefit of an additional 3/16" inch or so. Wow.

Best wishes on your research. Lots of fun awaits if you decide to go for it.

460.465USMC

08-25-2023, 04:39 PM

It's been pretty smoky here in Spokane recently, so I've been spending time in the garage whittling away at my list of remaining items. Recently completed are the radiator aluminum panels, front grilles, front license plate mount, and rear wheel spacers.

Radiator aluminum panels: the three radiator panels (sides and bottom) that come with the kit all required some trimming to fit. I opted for bulb seal along the top, so needed to trim a little material on those. It was quite a few rounds of fit, trim, and repeat. But, like many aspects of the build it eventually comes together with some patience.

Here's a view of the PS side panel. I painted a large batch of black rivets a while back, so used a few to fasten the side panels. The lower two holes are for 10-32 screws to fasten the side to the lower horizontal radiator panel. I did the same on the DS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189308&d=1692978525

Front grilles: I opted for the Breeze front grille set, which includes a grill for each of the four openings. They come in raw aluminum, so I powder coated to match the headlight trim rings, etc. The main opening is secured with 10-32 screws, so removable in case I need access. Two each top and bottom. The main grille is sandwiched between the body and the horizontal radiator panel. The other three are held in place with silicone.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189310&d=1692978525

Front license plate bracket: if your state requires a front plate, the aluminum bracket from Replicaparts is a good option. I also powder coated it to match the theme. There is about 6" of clearance from the bottom of the plate to the ground. This is well above the lowest part of the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189309&d=1692978525

Rear wheel spacers: I had these in mind as a future enhancement to allow my 315/R17 rear tires to better fill out the wheel well. However, I decided to pull the trigger now after realizing the spacers will (more importantly!) also increase the e-brake caliper-to-wheel clearance. The wheel opens up from center to the inboard edge. I measured the ID of my wheel with my digital caliper and determined a 1" spacer will give >3 mm of additional clearance in diameter (1.6 mm more in radius).

Early on, I removed material from the top of the caliper to provide the necessary clearance. However, after I put some miles on, I discovered the top of the e-brake caliper still makes contact (barely). I'm assuming the contact is caused by expansion of the wheel after it warms a bit.

1" wheel spacer

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189353&d=1692999030

View before adding 1" spacer

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189306&d=1692978346

View with spacer

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189307&d=1692978346

Smooth sailing on e-brake clearance? Check. Smooth sailing on wheel well clearance? Fail. Fail on the DS. We all know the bodies are not symmetrical. I've discovered one more asymmetrical location for my particular body is the rear wheel wells. The DS extends ~5/16" less than the PS. With the spacer installed, the DS wheel well lip rubs on the outer edge of the tire in sync with dips in the road. No issue on the PS. Dang! I was so close to calling this one complete.

What to do? I have a 1/2" spacer on order for the DS. I may also trim ~1/4" off the wheel well lips (common practice), which I hadn't done yet. We'll see if the wheel studs are long enough for the 1/2" spacer, or if I'll need to replace with longer studs. Thankfully, I did not need to trim the wheel studs because my wheels have pockets plenty deep for the original studs. Thankful X2 that I didn't apply the red thread locker that came with the wheel spacers. I used blue, and will monitor. I can always come back later and apply red once they've been proven. I've learned ([I]mostly) that I can get bitten by even the simplest of "mods" like adding an innocent wheel spacer. Thanks to Fman for planting the blue loctite idea in my mind when he added his spacers. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35778-Fmans-Dart-427-build-9818-1-quot-rear-wheel-spacers&p=525596&viewfull=1#post525596)

Happy building!

buttsjim

08-29-2023, 07:36 AM

Congratulations on getting the Cobra legally on the road. I have really enjoyed your thread, and am looking forward to reading your driving experiences.
Jim B

cc2Arider

08-29-2023, 08:36 AM

Looks good Chris! I just noticed some texture on your radiator panel -- is this powercoating or?

Craig C

460.465USMC

08-29-2023, 10:34 AM

Congratulations on getting the Cobra legally on the road. I have really enjoyed your thread, and am looking forward to reading your driving experiences.
Jim B

Thanks, Jim! It's an absolute blast to drive. I really enjoy the visceral driving experience.

Looks good Chris! I just noticed some texture on your radiator panel -- is this powercoating or?

Craig C

Thanks, Craig. Yes, the radiator surround panels (sides and bottom) are powder coated to match other visible panels, such as the dash and transmission tunnel cover. It's Charcoal Rock (https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors/ULB-8149/charcoal-rock) from Prismatic Powders.

460.465USMC

09-07-2023, 12:41 PM

It's hard to believe, but I'm out of aluminum panels, unless the VIN plate is considered a panel. I'll install that once my title arrives.

My last two panels to install were the door sill plates. They're powder coated to match the dash and trans cover. Instead of installing carpet on the sill, I picked up a remnant stick of angled aluminum (1"x1/2"x1/8") from my local metal supplier. Man, I love that place. They always have exactly what I need, and inexpensive. It's become one of my favorite places to shop.

Here are the DS sill edge pieces cut, drilled, and prepped for powder coat. They fit just fine in my little PC oven.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189808&d=1694100771

Well, I did my best to cut the aluminum ends to match the slope of the door sill chassis tubes. My goal was no gap between the pieces, but here you can see I fell a bit short between the longer two sections on the DS. Oh, well. My build has never been at risk of becoming a show car, so why start now? :cool: A theme of stainless fasteners contrasted against dark powder coat (dash, trans cover, etc.) emerged earlier in my build. I liked it, so just continued throughout the build. These rivets are not stainless, but have the same effect to my eyes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189809&d=1694100771

My battle with the DS rear wheel spacer is now in Round 3. I installed this 1/2" spacer because a 1" spacer caused the tire to rub even during minor suspension travel. The body also happens to sit lower on the DS, so double whammy between (1) the shorter wheel well lip and (2) lower body height. As I noted previously, the DS wheel well lip extends from the chassis about 5/16" less than the PS. (The 1 inch spacer on the PS is working well).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189807&d=1694100729

The 1/2" spacer made a big difference, but I'm still not out of the woods. The tire still rubs, but only during extensive suspension travel (i.e. big dips in the road). I would like to keep the 1/2" spacer, so will probably trim the wheel well lip (on both sides to match). This was going to be left for the body/paint pro, but I need clearance on the DS now.

While I was looking for a 1/2" spacer (bought the one above from Speedway), I stumbled across extended thread lug nuts. Who knew? Apparently, designed for situations like adding wheel spacers. (I wasn't looking forward to removing the studs from the hub). In my case, these lug nuts provide about 0.05 inches less (1.3 mm) of thread engagement (0.62" v. 0.67") as compared to the original lug nuts without spacers.

In between all of the above I spent time on a dyno with a tuner. Looking forward to getting my dyno chart emailed over from the tuner. I'll post the results.

Happy building!

buttsjim

09-07-2023, 12:56 PM

Bit by bit, you're making an already great car even better. I know that you plan on driving in gel coat for a while, but I'm really looking forward to seeing your car after paint--it's looking great now, I can hardly imagine what it's going to look like out of the paint shop! I've enjoyed your thread, gotten lots of ideas, and always appreciate your encouraging comments on my own build. I'm wishing you the very best of enjoyable driving in that beautiful car!

460.465USMC

09-08-2023, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the kind words, Jim. It's been a lot of fun for me to see others' builds along the way. So many good ideas, many of which I've shamelessly tried to copy in my build. I have a lot of appreciation for the craftmanship and ingenuity I see on this forum.

Oh, and did I mention it's fun to drive? :cool: My odometer reads 949 miles. I expect to hit the 1,000 mile mark Saturday morning when I meet up with the other local Spokane builder for coffee.

460.465USMC

09-15-2023, 12:20 PM

Based upon a number of Coyote Gen 3 experiences I've read here on the forum, I've had it in my head a professional tune is required. My goal for the tuner was to remove the MAF related error codes that occasionally trigger:

P0507 "Idle air control system RPM higher than expected
P0100 "Mass or volume air flow A Circuit"

I don't observe any performance degradation when these codes trigger. However, I'm not excited about the prospects of the MIL being active frequently, potentially masking some other issue.

Since my goal for tuning was very basic, I chose to use a local tuner for about half the price Lund quoted me. Plus, the tuner has a dyno, a safe way to run through WOT. After the tuner dialed in the MAF table, I noticed the idle is more consistent around 750 RPM. Bonus. Before the tune, the idle would start at 750 RPM for about five seconds (engine at operating temp), then jump to around 925 RPM and stay there.

Here are the initial baseline pull results (before MAF table optimization)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190107&d=1694796849

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190108&d=1694796861

The Coyote makes sweet music when it winds up to 7K! Here's a 49 second video of a pull on the dyno.

https://youtu.be/70PiQoXqrqc

The Coyote continues to run strong. Plenty of power and acceleration for my needs, and then some! Still some window left in driving season here in the PNW. I'm past the 1,000 mile mark (1,050), and couldn't be happier overall. The TKO600 doesn't shift as well as I expected it would, but will work okay for my purposes. It can be a little tricky distinguishing first from third when stopped. And, it took me some time to find the sweet spot when shifting into fifth.

Happy building!

Railroad

09-15-2023, 02:08 PM

Blitzboy54

09-16-2023, 07:01 AM

Just awesome. So happy for you Chris. I wish I was close I would love nothing more than to go for a drive. The thing that has taken me by surprise is after all the initial tuning and debugging just how reliable it is. Just turn the key and go. It’s been great.

460.465USMC

09-16-2023, 12:43 PM

Most roadster owners have learned to run lower tire pressures than expected, due to light wt, for the best ride.
You need to correct this for dyno runs. You can pick up or get more accurate hp numbers after this correction.
Nice post.

Hi Railroad. You're right. I'm running 24 PSI in rear, and 22 up front. So, you're saying if I ran the rear tires up to say 35 PSI or so, the HP results read by the dyno would have been higher and/or more accurate? Is this because the contact patch would be slightly smaller (i.e. smaller contact patch=less friction=less load on the motor?)?

Just awesome. So happy for you Chris. I wish I was close I would love nothing more than to go for a drive. The thing that has taken me by surprise is after all the initial tuning and debugging just how reliable it is. Just turn the key and go. It’s been great.

Thanks, Jesse! I'm really enjoying this part of the build experience. What a blast!

Great to hear yours is dialed in and running as expected. It is fun to hop in on a whim and go for a drive. I'm still volunteering to run errands for my wife. :D

Road trip?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190143&d=1694885855

Railroad

09-16-2023, 05:40 PM

Normal tire pressure will reduce the flex in side walls. I won"t try to explain the logic. The fabricator/tuner/chief cook and bottle washer for Kenne Bell, passed this info along to the 99 Mustang Cobra owners that bought KB superchargers for their cars. Dyno's are already all over the place on results for a lot of reasons. This happened to be one he pointed out to us, as we tuned our cars.
I noticed your tire side walls collapsing in the video.
On a conservative side, I would guess 10 more hp. Taller side walls would seem to me to give up more hp.
Enjoyed the video and post!
Hope to get mine on the dyno someday.

460.465USMC

09-17-2023, 10:17 AM

Thanks, Railroad. I appreciate your insights. It was my first time on a dyno. I "drove" the first WOT to redline (not the one in the video above). True confessions: it was a little unsettling to run my new motor up to redline. I had dollar signs flashing in my eyes as it approached 7K+ RPM. Probably just my inexperience with the whole thing. Ford Performance told me there's no special break-in required. Anyway, it was a good experience, and I learned a few things.

John Ibele

09-18-2023, 10:27 AM

Hi Railroad. You're right. I'm running 24 PSI in rear, and 22 up front. So, you're saying if I ran the rear tires up to say 35 PSI or so, the HP results read by the dyno would have been higher and/or more accurate? Is this because the contact patch would be slightly smaller (i.e. smaller contact patch=less friction=less load on the motor?)?

Thanks, Jesse! I'm really enjoying this part of the build experience. What a blast!

Great to hear yours is dialed in and running as expected. It is fun to hop in on a whim and go for a drive. I'm still volunteering to run errands for my wife. :D

Road trip?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190143&d=1694885855

Fantastic, Chris, very happy the tune worked well. I’m right behind you at about 800 miles, which doesn’t properly represent ‘seat time’ - a fair amount has been at idle, using the laptop software for the Sniper. A deep dive but immensely satisfying. I may get a tune on a dyno at some point but I’ve reached the most satisfying part: a reliable, very street-friendly setup where I can just turn the key and go. Sooo much fun with the right choices and setup.

I like the road trip visual! One of those white dots is Minneapolis, right? Maybe we make it a caravan for the rest of the drive East to Jesse’s ;)

Nigel Allen

09-19-2023, 07:31 AM

460.465USMC

09-19-2023, 10:35 AM

Fantastic, Chris, very happy the tune worked well. I’m right behind you at about 800 miles, which doesn’t properly represent ‘seat time’ - a fair amount has been at idle, using the laptop software for the Sniper. A deep dive but immensely satisfying. I may get a tune on a dyno at some point but I’ve reached the most satisfying part: a reliable, very street-friendly setup where I can just turn the key and go. Sooo much fun with the right choices and setup.

I like the road trip visual! One of those white dots is Minneapolis, right? Maybe we make it a caravan for the rest of the drive East to Jesse’s ;)

Hi John. Very cool you're getting the bits and bytes squared away on your tune. I imagine your winter starts even earlier than mine, so the clock is ticking on 2023 drives. We best keep at it, grinning at every turn and satisfying acceleration. Boy, this part is fun!

P.S. Of course one of those white dots is Minneapolis. Two Cobras heading East. I love it!

That looks truly awesome. Don't suppose you need a passenger?

It would truly be an excellent adventure. I tend to make wrong turns at virtually every opportunity, so yes, a passenger would be required to keep me pointed in the right direction! :p

460.465USMC

03-19-2024, 01:22 PM

Over the last several days Spring showed up in a big way in my neck of the woods. Temps in the mid- to upper-sixties! Time for the first Spring Rumble.

Boy did it feel good to stretch her legs out on the open road. Even better, I had the chance to give a first ride to a little guy. Look closely and you'll just barely make out his head in the passenger seat. He was all smiles. Upon return, he made sure I agreed to drive the Roadster (with him as passenger) to pick up the pizza. We did.

30 second first ride video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ctSnqxdus1s?feature=share

The V.I.N. is in: in even bigger news, after a short wait of two-hundred-thirty-seven days my title arrived. I won't revisit here what turned out to be a long slog through the WA state titling process. But happy to share my trials and tribulations with any Washington builder if they're interested. I plan to hand stamp the VIN on the F5 VIN plate and rivet to the top of the PS FB. Visible from inside the engine bay.

My plan for the winter was to work on some minor punch list items. Also, I wanted to enjoy some non-Roadster things I haven't done in a long time. That was Plan A. My better half had Plan B: Moving. Locally.

Suffice it to say no work on the Cobra over the winter. Instead, winter found me diligently making over a new-to-me-garage: interior wall framing, insulation, paneling (OSB), painting, and ceiling fans. The new digs are 45% of the square footage of my last garage. Admittedly, a first-world problem. Woe is me. And, I say diligently because the calendar says my next project shows up in April.

I hope others up north are getting their first Spring drives logged in the books. Perhaps our southern friends are smiling as they change oil, brought on by miles and miles of driving over the last few months? :p

Happy building!

buttsjim

03-19-2024, 02:03 PM

I was wondering how it was going for you...congratulations on receiving your title!

460.465USMC

06-08-2024, 12:39 PM

I've been driving the Roadster every chance I get. Longest trip so far was my inaugural drive last summer (200 miles), just after getting my license plates. Yes, it's a blast to drive. Yes, I'm smiling the whole time. Yes, I can't believe I'm driving a car I put together with my own hands. Very satisfying.

The odometer recently flipped past 2,000 miles. so thought I'd muse out loud on a few aspects of my build now that I've had some seat time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200445&d=1717867567

Coyote (Gen 3): running flawlessly so far. Push the start button after sitting during the winter, and it roars to life. Starts immediately hot or cold. Very happy with it so far.
TKO 600: it works fine, except I've often had issue getting it into 5th gear. More recently, however, it seems to have broken in or something. It's latching into 5th now about as well as the other gears. I chose the 0.64 ratio, and really like it for cruising on the highway. A big jump from 4th (1.0) down to 5th as others have mentioned, but not an issue for this lightweight Cobra.
IRS: no complaints. Happy I chose it. I will say this car loves smooth pavement. It's not as happy (nor am I) on uneven pavement often found in rural country roads. It's a race car after all, so I should expect nothing different.
DIY alignment: car is still tracking straight as an arrow. Very happy overall with my alignment. This was another very satisfying part of the build for me. It took me a lot of time and was tedious, but I enjoyed the education. Not to mention I can dial it in again in the future if needed.
Brake bias and braking: I installed the Wilwood remote brake bias. It's been very handy to dial in the brake bias. However, it doesn't feel like I've found the sweet spot in forward braking bias even though it's at the adjustment limit. So, I may see if there's any further adjustment available directly at the pedal box.
Rear tire clearance: I don't like how close the body is to the top of the rear tires. I may increase ride height to gain a bit of clearance. Question: does raising the ride height impact the alignment?
Detours: I took some detours during my build to make some improvements, which extended the build time considerably. But, I don't regret the extra Mods, nor the extra time.

Enjoy the build process!

cc2Arider

06-09-2024, 04:56 PM

Nice update Chris :)

It's also encouraging to hear you remind us again to enjoy the build. My build is "leisurely paced", but I don't mind. I'm also doing what I want, in accordance to my skills/talents...

Even though I haven't aligned my Roadster yet, I'm pretty sure the rear will be mis-aligned a little by raising the ride height. Certainly not as bad as the front would be. My experience has been only observing while I had engine in the car versus without, and jacking up to put on stands versus on the ground supporting its own weight...

Craig C

Blitzboy54

06-17-2024, 09:59 AM

Brake bias and braking: I installed the Wilwood remote brake bias. It's been very handy to dial in the brake bias. However, it doesn't feel like I've found the sweet spot in forward braking bias even though it's at the adjustment limit. So, I may see if there's any further adjustment available directly at the pedal box.

I found this to be true as well. Right up until I upgraded from the stock pads into something more aggressive. Woah boy did that wake the system up. It stops like a race car now as well. I have already contacted Wilwood on my next kit about changing out the pads right out of the gate. For a high end custom set of brakes the stock pads are simply disappointing. The stock pads are BP-10, I moved up to the BP-20 for the fronts. The next build I will run PB-20 in both front and rear. You won't regret it.

Mike.Bray

06-17-2024, 10:44 AM

I upgraded to Hawk HB pads, huge improvement over the stock Wilwood pads.

Jeff Kleiner

06-17-2024, 10:55 AM

... Question: does raising the ride height impact the alignment?...

Yes, raising the rear will result in the front caster going more negative and depending on the geometry of the rear IRS upper and lower control arms may have an effect on rear camber. That said, although the difference may be measurable a small ride height adjustment such as 1/2" will not drastically change front caster or rear camber.

Jeff

Jim1855

06-17-2024, 03:07 PM

You can "tune" brake bias with pads, fortunately rear pads are not that expensive once you find the fronts that work to your expectations. I didn't like BP-10s but did like BP-20s at all corners. Good reports on Hawk pads as well but my experience is limited with these. A friend ran one of the EBC pads on his Backdraft and really liked them, but this was a whole different brake system.
I like reading the current reports as most will apply to my car with Wilwoods. All if my guessing is from past experience and lots of miles and a variety of pads in the Wilwoods.
Jim

460.465USMC

06-17-2024, 05:13 PM

I found this to be true as well. Right up until I upgraded from the stock pads into something more aggressive. Woah boy did that wake the system up. It stops like a race car now as well. I have already contacted Wilwood on my next kit about changing out the pads right out of the gate. For a high end custom set of brakes the stock pads are simply disappointing. The stock pads are BP-10, I moved up to the BP-20 for the fronts. The next build I will run PB-20 in both front and rear. You won't regret it.

Great info! Thanks, Jesse.

I upgraded to Hawk HB pads, huge improvement over the stock Wilwood pads.

Thanks, Mike. I've read some other positive review on these as well. Sounds like a good option.

Yes, raising the rear will result in the front caster going more negative and depending on the geometry of the rear IRS upper and lower control arms may have an effect on rear camber. That said, although the difference may be measurable a small ride height adjustment such as 1/2" will not drastically change front caster or rear camber.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks for chiming in on this one. Very helpful. The impact of ride height to alignment is not very intuitive to me.

You can "tune" brake bias with pads, fortunately rear pads are not that expensive once you find the fronts that work to your expectations. I didn't like BP-10s but did like BP-20s at all corners. Good reports on Hawk pads as well but my experience is limited with these. A friend ran one of the EBC pads on his Backdraft and really liked them, but this was a whole different brake system.
I like reading the current reports as most will apply to my car with Wilwoods. All if my guessing is from past experience and lots of miles and a variety of pads in the Wilwoods.
Jim

Some trial-and-error might be in order to improve upon the stock Wilwood pads. Good to know your experience. Thanks, Jim.