460.465USMC's MK4 Build #9890 - Gel Red is Rad. Blue is Better! [Archive] - Page 2

460.465USMC

12-02-2021, 03:22 PM

I'd be concerned about exhaust leaks if the repair isn't completely smooth, which could affect readings from the O2 sensor just a few inches away. Just my $0.02, but you paid for new parts and that's what I'd expect to receive.

It could be fixed with plyers and a small ball peen hammer. But like papa said, no guarantees and you paid for an undamaged part.

Use an adjustable wrench, less distortion. Bend is probably below the seal area. You can put a little grease on the parts and see where the two make contact. No biggy.

Chris I would take that bent piece to exhaust shop and have them straighten it out, they will have the correct machine to get it perfect and prob would not be that expensive. Factory 5 might even credit you for the repair.

https://3dcarstickers.com/search/?searchstring=cobra

Really appreciate the input, Gents! I'm going to examine the dent and connections a bit more closely. If it doesn't affect the exhaust flow--feel fairly good it won't if I get it close to original shape--I don't think I will bother with a replacement request from F5. I'm going to follow Railroad's suggestion and check for fitment/seal.

However, Papa's point about the potential impact to O2 sensor has me thinking. I have no experience in engine building or mech. engineering (yes, I know it's obvious! :p), so welcome any additional thoughts on Papa's O2 sensor consideration. I'm not really in the mood to arm wrestle F5 for a replacement unless it's going to affect engine performance/O2 sensor operation. Any additional thoughts?

460.465USMC

12-02-2021, 03:24 PM

Also I found this company online that makes custom center caps. They do a really nice job, have good prices and you can pretty much find anything or even custom make them to size and graphic. The only downfall is it takes a few weeks because they are made out of the country but totally a legit company.

https://3dcarstickers.com/search/?searchstring=cobra

Thanks for the tip, Travis! Just bought caps, so I'm going to file this away for future reference.

P.S. I tried the website and it won't load. Probably just a momentary inter-webs issue, so will try again later. Thanks again.

Railroad

12-02-2021, 03:58 PM

After you pull the bend back to shape and if not pleased with the result, a good body man with a hammer and dolly can smooth it down. Those senior hammer and dolly men can smooth it out in short order.

460.465USMC

12-08-2021, 07:23 PM

I'm plugging away inch by inch on the RF wiring harness. Drilled the 1.25" hole for the rear harness in the lower rear, inside corner of the DS FB. This is just below the hydraulic clutch reservoir pass through as it goes to its master cylinder. I removed the dark green/gray speed sensor wires/connector - not used w/GPS gauges. While I had the loom unwrapped, added a pair of wires for a trunk courtesy light. Placed rear harness in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158398&d=1638925397

Sending unit harness: decided upon drilling the 1.25" hole just below and to the left of the hydraulic clutch reservoir on the firewall. Included the 8 AWG from the Blue Sea Systems (BSS) 150A fuse (a la Edwardb) to the alternator in this harness and routed it through the firewall. Also seen in the above picture.

Like many I removed the Hot Rod flat steering column connector and wires. Since I will be using the Coyote computer to control the fan, I eliminate the cooling fan and sensor wires from the front harness.

I've seen other builders installed a ground bus behind the dash, and liked the idea (thanks Fman!). So, installed another BSS four position (1/4" studs) to collect grounds behind the dash. I grounded the bus itself to the 2"x2" tube. Drilled and tapped 1/4-20 to secure it. The specs on this BSS bus call for 72 in lbs of torque when tightening the studs. I get to put my HF inch pound torque wrench to use again--other time was to safety wire the Wilwood brake hats/rotors.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158404&d=1638925869

The inertia switch can also be seen in the above picture. I attached it to the passenger side firewall extension. I like how this location is less busy, and it gets the switch up and out of the way. Should be able to access if it ever gets tripped. Not breaking any new ground here!

I installed the ODB-II connector on the bottom side of the 2"x2", just to the right of the steering shaft support. I have a lot of wiring installation left to complete, so ordered a dust cover to prevent debris/bits of stuff from lodging in the ODB-II. About $15 on Amazon.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158399&d=1638925397

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158400&d=1638925397

Back to the inertia switch, I installed a SPST switch (came with my kit) in series so I can manually shut off the fuel in case of emergency. Attached it to an underdash support--tust below and to the left of the steering shaft. See red arrow below. Another idea I copied from Edwardb.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158403&d=1638925869

I've bought plenty of tools for my project so far, so trying to keep a lid on it (you know...budget and all). But, after soldering a few of the larger ring terminals, I was not happy with the process. Not to mention how easy (uneasy!) it is to solder in tight spaces. So, picked up a cheap hydraulic crimper I've seen a few of my go-to builders use. About $50 from Amazon (YQK-70). Wow, what a difference! Very pleased with the result, and wished I would have bought this at the beginning. Lesson learned.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158401&d=1638925491

I almost forgot about my horn and hazard flasher switches. The plastic momentary horn switch that comes with the kit is okay, but for $15 I wanted to upgrade and try this one from MGI Speedware. Probably not the highest quality in the world, but has a good feel and the switch operations seems positive. This one is red (momentary), and the circle will illuminate with the headlight on, so I can easily find when dark. The horn will be installed between the ignition switch, and the headlight switch (to the right and below the steering wheel). Similarly, I bought a DPST for the hazard light switch (latching; green illumination), and it will be installed below and to the left of the steering wheel. Not the most convenient location, but hopefully this won't be a go-to switch for me, so ease of reach is not as critical as the horn.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158423&d=1639008910

460.465USMC

12-08-2021, 07:30 PM

With all of the dash and wiring work over the last few weeks, figured I was ready for a win. So, installed the horns. I used a 1/4-20 through the 3/4" tube to secure both brackets, and a 10-32 on one bracket to keep the horns from rotating. Secured both bolts with nylon lock nuts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158402&d=1638925491

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158424&d=1639009651

My dash is at the powder coaters with a two week lead time. Looking forward to getting it back and installing it.

Fman

12-08-2021, 07:46 PM

Chris your build is looking awesome, you are doing a great job. Your wiring looks a lot more polished than mine that is for sure. I was trying to catch up on your build were you able to test your fuel lines yet for leaks? Not sure if you were aware but they sell a nice little air adaptor and plug that can be used to hold pressure in the line. Some nice piece of mind before you run fuel through them. If you've already done this sorry I missed it but thought it was worthwhile mentioning.

Keep it up, you'll be dropping in that Coyote before you know it!

460.465USMC

12-08-2021, 07:53 PM

Fman

12-08-2021, 08:45 PM

Hi Travis. Appreciate you dropping in. Always welcome your feedback, and draw from your build all the time.

I haven't tested the fuel lines yet, but it's on my list. I may have made a note of it, but did you share the system you used to test in your build thread?

This is what I used, looks like it is available on Amazon now

https://www.amazon.com/Fragola-900666-Individual-Hose-Pressure/dp/B009S5ICJY/ref=asc_df_B009S5ICJY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475739785869&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9773831633645666082&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032425&hvtargid=pla-1007270977891&psc=1

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137370&d=1604967062

frankeeski

12-09-2021, 12:31 AM

With all of the dash and wiring work over the last few weeks, figured I was ready for a win. So, installed the horns. I used a 1/4-20 through the 3/4" tube to secure both brackets, and a 10-32 on one bracket to keep the horns from rotating. Secured both bolts with nylon lock nuts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158402&d=1638925491

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158424&d=1639009651

The heads of those machine screws are going to be an issue when you go to secure your nose aluminum.

460.465USMC

12-09-2021, 03:08 PM

The heads of those machine screws are going to be an issue when you go to secure your nose aluminum.

Thanks for the warning, Frank. Is this aluminum piece what you are referring to? Do you think it would be okay if I cut out for the screw heads when I get to this point?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158447&d=1639080459

frankeeski

12-09-2021, 11:28 PM

Thanks for the warning, Frank. Is this aluminum piece what you are referring to? Do you think it would be okay if I cut out for the screw heads when I get to this point?

You can but it may look like garbage. I'd prefer mounting them to the bottom 3/4" square tube just behind the rad. I don't use those horns and prefer to use the Bad Boy Horn from Wolo. I mount that one to the "x" frame in the front of the car.

460.465USMC

12-21-2021, 07:31 PM

Diversions can be a good thing. Been plugging away my ongoing (never-ending?!) wiring task, but decided to indulge a brief diversion and install a carbon fume/vapor filter. I don't see this mentioned in the build manual. Would rather spend the $25 on parts and install now while easily accessible.

I just recently saw Edwardb's approach to this, and really liked the simplicity, functionality, and especially the (low) cost. You can see his recent write-up here: PVC Carbon Fume/Vapor Filter (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37287-EdwardB%92s-35-Hot-Rod-Truck-Build-Wipers-and-Washers&p=475007&viewfull=1#post475007). It sounds like Mr. Kleiner first came up with the idea, so I thank both of them for sharing. Great solution, Gents!

I mounted the Allstar performance mounting bracket just behind the PS rear shock mount. From what I've read there is consensus this location is good, i.e. not in the way, and accessible for maintenance. Drilled and tapped 10-32 holes for socket head screws. Applied Loctite Blue to threads and used lock washers.

Allstar bracket installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159001&d=1640131548

Vapor filter in place. The bottom fitting is glued in place. The top is just friction fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159000&d=1640131333

View from the other side, coming off the 90 deg. vent nipple on the gas tank. I used 3/8" rubber fuel hose from Napa, as it seems to fit the nipple well. Just had to find the matching nylon 1/2" NPT to 1/4" hose barb (Lowe's).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158999&d=1640131319

I called the powder coating shop, and they pushed me back another week. Hopefully, I'll have the dash in hand next week while I'm on Christmas vacation, as I'd really like to wire in the gauges. It seems his large commercial accounts have priority over my very important dash. Where does this guy get off doing the profitable jobs first?!! :p I have plenty other wiring stuff to do, so it won't slow me down.

Merry Christmas!

460.465USMC

01-02-2022, 09:46 PM

Happy New Year! I took some vacation time this past week, so was able to make more wiring progress. The biggest news is my dash finally came back from powder coat--after some pleading phone calls from yours truly. It turned out great. The wait was worth it.

Here it is with everything in place except for the ignition switch. That's hanging in the car for now, and will install later.

This photo didn't turn out all that well, but it's close enough to get an idea of the color. This is Charcoal Rock from Prismatic Powders ("dark grey with a black contrast and a fine silver metallic"). It's supposed to be flat, with only 0-6 gloss units. I don't think it's quite that flat, but I didn't want shiny. I'm good with how it turned out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159604&d=1641174789

For the close-up view below (again, color is a bit off in the photo--I don't think my phone dealt very well with our kitchen lighting):

The black knob below the oil pressure gauge is the dimmer switch (need to figure out how that connects in relation to the dimmer control on the headlight switch).
The push button below that is for the Speedo menu.
The flush mount button below the Speedo is for the hazard flashers; a green halo LED illuminates when pressed/latched.
The identical looking switch to its right is for the horn (momentary), a red halo LED illuminates with ignition On.
I liked the turn signal/high beam/MIL LED light arrangement Edwardb did on his Anniversary build, so followed the same on mine.
There is a second push button for clock setting permanently mounted to the bottom of the dash (not visible in photos).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159605&d=1641174813

Rear view. Still lots of work left here, but feels really good to get to this point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159608&d=1641176028

Here's a closer view of the powder coat texture. I think Prismatic calls this a leatherette finish. (Please ignore the color in this photo).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159606&d=1641174813

As I mentioned above, still lots of work to do to test the circuits, and then make all the connections between the instruments and the wiring harness.

At the last minute, I decided to order 3/8" remote terminals for battery charging. I'm thinking of installing them next to the master shut off switch, which is above the transmission tunnel. I will run a short 8 AWG from the positive terminal to the 12V Blue Sea Systems (BSS) bus bar (switched side of master cut off). And a 10 AWG to the nearby ground bus bar (also a BSS). So, these wires will be behind the dash, i.e. not in the engine compartment. These will be the connection points to my battery maintainer, which provides up to 1.25A of current. Does anyone think this is a bad approach for remote charging terminals?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&d=1641176784

edwardb

01-02-2022, 10:08 PM

Papa

01-02-2022, 11:49 PM

Chris,

That dash looks fantastic! Nice work and I like to idea of powder coat on the dash for durability.

Dave

Blitzboy54

01-03-2022, 08:13 AM

Looks great Chris!

Fman

01-03-2022, 10:46 AM

Chris, very cool idea with the PC that turned out great.

Happy new year to you, glad you are back on the build.

460.465USMC

01-03-2022, 01:20 PM

Nice work. Looks really good. Two comments. First, you asked about the relationship between the dimmer control on the headlight switch (rotating knob) and the Speedhut gauge dimmer. It's pretty simple. Leave the headlight knob rotated fully to the left (counterclockwise) against the stop for the courtesy lights. Then control the gauge dimming only with the Speedhut knob. Rotating the the headlight knob clockwise will turn the gauges off (with no dimming) once the voltage falls below a certain threshold. If you leave it fully to the left, the gauges will always light. Also, it's only a short additional turn to the left to turn on the courtesy lights if you're using that function. Second, the terminals for the battery minder will work. I've done it a little differently on my last two builds and I like it a lot. I wire the aux port (as I see you also have on your dash) with large enough wires and circuit breaker that it can handle the battery minder. I use a CTek 7002. Then also I make the aux port a battery circuit so it's always on. With that, I just plug the battery minder into the aux port and it backfeeds to the battery. Works great and is very handy.

Thanks, Paul! Looking into my dimmer situation a bit more, I couldn't figure out why the dimmer control from Speedhut (didn't come with kit - had to order separately) came with a two-pin daisy chain connector arrangement. All of the gauges, except the clock, have three-pin daisy chain. So, I called Speedhut this morning, and they said when F5 switched to LED lighting the dimmer function is now controlled by the headlight switch. I'm pretty committed to the dimmer switch (hole is in the dash), so wondering if I can still make it all work like you describe above? That would be my preference.

Great idea on the remote charging. I may reconsider my approach above, as I think yours is cleaner, and like you said, very handy.

Papa

01-03-2022, 01:31 PM

Chris,

The older gauges required an AC inverter and the Speedhut dimmer was used to convert DC to AC for those gauges. If your new gauges are LED, you may need to use a different dimmer. Perhaps something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Volt-Dimmer-LED-Halogen-Incandescent/dp/B01C4UBMW8/ref=sr_1_14?crid=1B6KJTC03WY3Y&keywords=automotive+LED+dimmer&qid=1641234510&sprefix=automotive+led+dimmer%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-14

Dave

460.465USMC

01-03-2022, 01:33 PM

Chris,

That dash looks fantastic! Nice work and I like to idea of powder coat on the dash for durability.

Dave

Thanks, Dave! There's very few ideas I haven't heavily borrowed from from great builds like yours. It should hold up for a while.

Looks great Chris!

Thanks, Jesse! Really appreciate a fellow Devil Dog keeping an eye on me.

Chris, very cool idea with the PC that turned out great.

Happy new year to you, glad you are back on the build.

Thanks, Travis! Happy New Year!

I've spent more time on my dash and wiring than any other aspect of my build. To be honest, it was intimidating at first. And, this was supposed to be the one part of the build closest to my wheel house! Gulp! Anyway, it feels good to see a small light at the end of my wiring/dash tunnel.

edwardb

01-03-2022, 03:55 PM

Thanks, Paul! Looking into my dimmer situation a bit more, I couldn't figure out why the dimmer control from Speedhut (didn't come with kit - had to order separately) came with a two-pin daisy chain connector arrangement. All of the gauges, except the clock, have three-pin daisy chain. So, I called Speedhut this morning, and they said when F5 switched to LED lighting the dimmer function is now controlled by the headlight switch. I'm pretty committed to the dimmer switch (hole is in the dash), so wondering if I can still make it all work like you describe above? That would be my preference.

Oops. I assumed since you had the AC inverter and separate dimmer, yours was the previous style gauges with the electroluminescent backlighting. Speedhut is correct. Newer gauges use LED backlighting so don't use the inverter or the separate dimmer. They supposedly will dim with the knob on the headlight switch. I don't have any experience with that newer version, so can't say how effective that dimming is. Best to wire it up and find out. The white gauge lighting wire in the RF dash harness has its voltage increased/reduced by twisting the headlight knob. See how it works. A separate dimmer like Papa posted might be another approach. But it will still have the gauge white wire going through it.

John Ibele

01-05-2022, 02:05 PM

Yeah, one more attaboy :) Your dash - unique, totally functional, and really well executed. Nice job, Chris. Happy New Year!

460.465USMC

01-05-2022, 03:59 PM

Yeah, one more attaboy :) Your dash - unique, totally functional, and really well executed. Nice job, Chris. Happy New Year!

Happy New Year, John! I really appreciate your comments. It means a lot to get feedback from you, and the other builders I respect and go to for help. Keeps me between the rails!

460.465USMC

01-17-2022, 12:43 PM

I'm working on faith all of this will actually come together, and fit behind the dash. Without the great examples from those who've gone before, I'm not sure I would have enough faith!

HQ Wiring Operations have moved to Camp Kitchen Table for the dash harness connections.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160357&d=1642440719

If a connection otherwise doesn't have a plug, it will be soldered and protected by dual wall heat shrink (w/adhesive lining). It doesn't seem like a good idea (for me) to solder the RT turn signal wires, as I imagine I'll need to remove it 37 more times before I'm done. So, these will few connections will be crimped with push-on terminals. Did anyone else make their RT connections removable?

Fman

01-17-2022, 12:54 PM

JohnK

01-17-2022, 01:09 PM

I agree with Fman - I'd try to make as much removable as possible for serviceability. I added Molex connectors throughout the dash wiring wherever there wasn't already a connector.

460.465USMC

01-17-2022, 04:49 PM

Chris, I would definitely make all connections removable, my RT turn signal is broken and won’t hold in right turn position. I have to hold it in place with my finger. I’ll prob just leave it because I don’t want the hassle of removing it. I also took out my clock and replaced with oil temp gauge. You never know what you will have to swap out after your car is finished, IMO the easier to disconnect stuff the better.

Thanks, Travis. I may be too hung up on soldering connections. Knowing myself, I can see how I would (and need!) to get behind the dash to remove/replace/fix something(s). Appreciate your input.

I agree with Fman - I'd try to make as much removable as possible for serviceability. I added Molex connectors throughout the dash wiring wherever there wasn't already a connector.

Good to hear from you, John. I like your Molex approach (familiar with these from years ago), but need to tap the brakes on the buy-more-tools-bus (just picked up engine crane and leveler, etc.). I can see the wisdom in what you and Travis are recommending. I may just use my faithful Klein crimpers on some of these connections that don't already have connectors, especially if it means in the future I would have to cut the wire to remove a gauge, etc.

zee

01-18-2022, 08:05 AM

It's been almost six weeks since I've touched my build. We lost our son Benjamin, Aug. 26. He would have turned 19 last week. The last time we were together he was in our garage to change the oil in his Honda Civic.

Hey Chris,

I am late to this because I am only reading your build thread now, but reading this broke my heart. I hope. you and your family is doing well. I am so sorry for your loss. There's nothing else I can add except everyone who read your post is heartbroken and cannot possibly imagine what you're going through.

John Ibele

01-18-2022, 10:49 AM

460.465USMC

01-18-2022, 07:12 PM

Hey Chris,

I am late to this because I am only reading your build thread now, but reading this broke my heart. I hope. you and your family is doing well. I am so sorry for your loss. There's nothing else I can add except everyone who read your post is heartbroken and cannot possibly imagine what you're going through.

Thank you for your kind words and concern, Zee. It's very appreciated.

460.465USMC

01-18-2022, 07:26 PM

And just on Friday I was contemplating posting on your build thread with something like, "gee, isn't it about time we get to see a photo of the rat's nest that is the back of dash before you clean it up?" Seems like that's one of those minor milestones for every first-time builder.

I really went down a rat hole with the dash wiring in terms of where to solder, where to crimp, and where to put connectors, so can't provide the clearest advice. I eventually realized the most important part was to get on with it, but be able address servicability where possible. Snipped out all the gauge connectors and soldered directly into the dash harness. That might sound dumb on the face of it. But, I'm confident of my soldered connections, and the worst that happens is that if a gauge fails, I have to snip a few wires and either solder, crimp, or install a connector - all working from the front of dash, without taking it out - before reaching behind the dash to spin the ring that pulls the new gauge in place. Thinking through it, that was a good enough serviceability plan for me. I'm not making that a recommendation, just saying that was how I got myself unstuck ...

JohnK's approach ... like his dash layout and wiring, way cleaner than he gives himself credit for, and I also took notes on his use of connectors in various places. But as with you, I was feeling a bit of tool / material purchase fatigue at the time, and just forged ahead. Now I'm tidying up a few things before putting the dash in place permanently. Just as important is servicability in the engine bay, which Fixit stressed to me. You want to minimize the time you spend leaning over the engine once the body is on and an expensive paint is laid over it. So there I did focus on having a connector to every component which might need to be replaced.

Glad to see you keeping at it, Chris, thanks for the update.

Hi John. Thanks for dropping in! I made good progress yesterday at Camp Kitchen Table. Ended up soldering most connections on the cut end wire side of the RF weatherpacks. However, I made sure there is a connector somewhere in each main circuit for easy disconnect if I need to remove the entire dash. I'm >95% done with this task, and ended up with only the RT turn signal wirings with push-on terminals. Everything else disconnects from either the main 10 pin RF harness weatherpacks, or by a connector at the individual gauge/component.

Great point about spinning the ring to get access to the rear of a gauge. Good reason to leave just a bit of slack to be able to pull the gauge through from the front.

I couldn't agree more on how clean JohnK's wiring looks on the backside (and elsewhere for that matter!). He sets the bar high!

On to getting the dash connected so I can begin checking these circuits.

JohnK

01-18-2022, 08:13 PM

You guys are very kind. Thank you. I'm just a first-time builder figuring this out as I go along. :o

460.465USMC

01-31-2022, 11:36 PM

Update on my dimmer/LED dash light issue. I chimed in on this same issue on a recent thread posted by vtollomk4, so apologies for the duplication: Vintage Gauges and Wiring (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38593-Vintage-gauges-and-wiring&p=442830&viewfull=1#post442830). Wanted to post here if for no other reason than for my own future reference.

I measured the voltage output at the white "Dash Lights" wire on pin 2 of the headlight switch using my Fluke multimeter. The change in voltage between full CCW (just before courtesy light click) and full CW is less than 0.01 volts. Not exactly a usable voltage variance. My gauge lights are full bright. They do not shut off until I turn off the headlights.

I'm going to try this dimmer per a suggestion from Papa. I'm going with the version seen below, but it's also offered with a black knob, and fits in the same size hole as the gauge programming button--important for me as I already purchased (later returned) the Speedhut dimmer kit, and drilled the 0.265" hole in my dash. Engineered and manufactured in the USA--Bonus!! Worth a shot for $30.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161577&d=1643687474

12 Volt DC Dimmer for LED... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C4UBLYM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01C4UBLYM&pd_rd_w=qUKJ1&pf_rd_p=54ed5474-54a8-4c7f-a88a-45f748d18166&pd_rd_wg=Lw3GX&pf_rd_r=WBG9GGFW31YX9DPW070X&pd_rd_r=fb973d4d-808d-44c2-af35-756bca2f19f0&s=automotive&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFYVDQyOUJVUVAxSUQmZ W5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAzMTI5NzE1N084M1BVT045SDImZW5jcnl wdGVkQWRJZD1BMDE4MTQzNTFLU0kxUUFRUk9XWlQmd2lkZ2V0T mFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWMmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmV kaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl)

Will my wiring ever come to an end? Just when I think I'm getting close, I find more to do. Anyway, I tested each circuit individually using a Power Probe III. No smoke released. Phew! Then, I energized the entire fuse panel from the vehicle battery through the master cutoff. No smoke! And, everything works as expected...except...the gauges won't dim. I hope to have that resolved once the dimmer arrives. It was really cool to see the gauges and flush mount switches light up for the first time. The Speedo even acquired GPS from inside my garage. I wired that up for quick acquisition.

In the meantime, I'm stepping through the tedious task of wire management. What a tangled mess I wove! I ended up eliminating both 10 pin dash connectors, because few wires were left running through them. Also removed both rear harness connectors. I'm not saying I recommend this approach, or that it's better. But after stripping back all the harnesses to remove unused wires, shortening to length, etc. it seemed the cleanest way forward for me. Once I complete this I'll share the obligatory Before and After pictures. (Fair warning to keep expectations low on how pretty it will turn out).

One last item: I upgraded the horn and hazard switches with flush mount switches mounted to the dash, as previously shown. I'm going to upgrade the front running lights with Amber LEDs from Watson Streetworks (~$30). While on their website I saw their push button start with RFID security module. The push button matches my horn and hazard switches, and I'm not overly excited about the supplied ignition switch. I'm sure it's fine and works/has worked in many builds. Their kit on on back order, so I'm going use the kit supplied ignition switch for now, so I can keep moving forward. The Watson unit should be a nice finish to my dash.

JohnK

01-31-2022, 11:47 PM

Nice work Chris! Hang in there... it eventually ends. ;) The cleanup of the wires is the most tedious part but it sounds like you're in the home stretch now.

Papa

02-01-2022, 08:44 AM

Chris,

I'll caution you on the push-button start you're looking at. There have been quite a few (not all) people that have tried to use it and have had issues. Do your homework before committing. Great progress on the build!

Dave

JohnK

02-01-2022, 10:15 AM

I'm not familiar with the Watsons Streetworks push button start module, but I did install the Digital Guard Dawg push button start in mine and it's been working fine so far (granted very limited use so far). They offer many different choices of buttons with their system, including billet buttons like what you currently have. It's definitely pricier than the Watsons Streetworks unit but perhaps a bit more "tried and true".

John Ibele

02-01-2022, 10:58 AM

Chris, good update and solid progress. The wiring does indeed seem endless at times, something I can say since I'm in the middle of it myself.

I read the thread you referenced and there was plenty of helpful advice in there, and some less so. LED dimmers are fundamentally different in operation from the dimmer incorporated in the headlight switch knob, which you've already found isn't going to help you. At best it'll get you above and below the operating voltage of the LED's, and thus allow you to turn them on and off. You should be on the right path with the dimmer Papa recommended.

I've been noodling how to best test all my circuits before hooking up the battery. I haven't tested them one at a time as I've progressed, so I've got some work to do when I'm done with wiring and before hooking up the battery. Happy to see an endorsement of the Power Probe, which I was considering purchasing. More on your tips n' tricks may be appreciated, either in your build thread or PM ...

Keep on rockin' !

460.465USMC

02-01-2022, 12:34 PM

Hi John. The Power Probe III (PP3) was worth every penny IMHO.

My approach was to inject 12V to the particular circuit at the back side of the fuse panel. For example, to test the turn signals, I injected power on the input to the turn signal flasher. There were a couple of circuits that required power at two locations. So, for those I used an alligator clip lead to introduce 12V at the second location simultaneously. It took a good amount of tracing to make sure when I injected 12V I wasn't unintentionally powering up another circuit at the same time. Tedious, but for me it was worth it because I don't trust myself given the number of connections. Again, not recommending this as a preferred way for others, but it worked for me, i.e. reduced the smoke-release risk factor to an acceptable level.

Your build thread has been so informative to me. If there's some way I can offer any return help, don't hesitate to PM me. Happy to write or give you a call to talk through anything I've done.

John Ibele

02-01-2022, 04:36 PM

460.465USMC

02-06-2022, 11:12 PM

I didn't have much time garage time over the last several days--wife and I slipped out of town to celebrate our 30th anniversary. However, while I was away the LED dimmer switch arrived--link noted in previous post. I was able to get it installed this afternoon and...it works! The switch has On/Off functionality as well as LED dimming. There is plenty of fine dimming adjustment, so I should be good-to-go for night driving.

One interesting note: with the knob full CW (full bright) the gauge lights shimmer. The LED halo lighting on the flush mounted horn and hazard switches is also on the gauge lighting circuit. Rotate the knob just a tad CCW and the shimmering stops. I'm guessing full CW is just beyond the adjustment range of happiness for the LEDs? I'm not too concerned about it, as I have full adjustability.

Thanks again to the forum for the advice, and a special Thank You to Papa who sent me the link to the LED dimmer switch.

LED dimmer switch

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161954&d=1644205555

Dimmer switch installed. I'm sure someone will notice the small hole just above the dimmer knob. Before I knew my gauges were LED, as noted above I purchased and installed the standard dimmer kit from Speedhut. The dimmer has a protruding tab to keep it from spinning when the knob is turned. This hole was for that tab. I may come up with a way cover/hide it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161953&d=1644205454

Push-button start update: given some concern from forum members who installed my original choice I opened the wallet a little wider and ordered the "Digital Guard Dawg PBS-I Push Button Start System, Pre 1998". Speedway Motors had it on sale. It comes standard with a flush mount push button with blue LED halo lighting--just the one I wanted. It should be here later this week, so hopefully this weekend I can get it installed and maybe, just maybe I will be closer to the last chapter in dash wiring.

John Ibele

02-07-2022, 11:37 AM

Good deal, glad that problem's solved. I'm thinking the shimmering you see should be solvable, since there shouldn't be any more 'on' than just full duty cycle. Have you tried totally isolating power and ground for that item, just to see if the problem still occurs?

The dash hole ... dang you're honest :) Never woulda noticed. But, since you mention it, you're now in a club with (I'm expecting) a very large percentage of the builder community. I'm thinking you'll find a bezel that will make the dimmer knob look even better.

460.465USMC

02-08-2022, 11:59 AM

Good idea, John. I could at least eliminate the LED push-buttons as the source of the shimmer. I'll have to double check, but think I would have to cut the connections to the push buttons to isolate the gauges, and then re-solder after testing. Two steps forward, one step back. Ugh!

460.465USMC

02-15-2022, 08:29 PM

At long last my dash is completely wired and installed. Phew! It's been a long, long journey...all the extra time is self-inflicted due to my own choices. Some of the key choices were:

Starting with a blank piece of 0.090 aluminum
Making the dash removable--no visible screws on the face
Adding a grab handle
Choosing to powder coat v. vinyl or leather, etc. etc.

But, I finished it! Hard to believe I made it after all this time. The best part is no smoke releases....yet! And, all circuits have been tested (couple exceptions like the fuel pump) and are working.

I mentioned in a recent update I decided to go with the Digital Guard Dawg (DGD) push-button start. It's now installed and working. My first impression is this is a quality unit. Even the quality of the FOBs are comparable to the FOBs that come with a modern daily driver.

Here's what came with the PBS-1 version. It has two accessory circuits: I connected one to the RF Accessory circuit, and the second will be used for DRLs in my headlights (more on that in a future post):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162586&d=1644960793

Not knowing how warm the firewall will be with the Thermotec, I added about 1/2" of air gap with spacers between the DGD and the firewall. Could be totally unnecessary, but I like the idea of a safety margin, and I have plenty of space.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162593&d=1644960944

And now...wait for it...the obligatory rats nest photo. I have a few versions of rats nest. This is the final version before wire tidy-up started.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162587&d=1644960793

I soldered many of the connections, but some are crimped with nylon push-on terminal connectors like this. I took the advice seriously of several who advised about being able to disconnect for future servicing or changes. Added dual wall adhesive lined shrink tubing for extra protection against accidental contact, and strain relief.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162588&d=1644960793

There are builders among us who are wiring artists. I'm not one of them. But, it's functional and the wires are protected. For the clock, I bought a second programming button from Speedhut, which is permanently mounted to the bottom lip of the dash. A second programming button is permanently mounted on the lower left hand side. That one is for the Speedo menus.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162585&d=1644960793

Driver's side layout behind the dash, from left to right:

150A Blue Sea Systems (BSS) fused connection to alternator (mounted vertically with cover off for photo)
+12V bus bar (BSS) - cover off for photo
Ididit headlight relay (provides flash-to-pass and high/low beam operation with RT turn signal)
LED tail light converter (comes with kit)
DGD control module
Ground bus bar (BSS) mounted to the vertical dash support--shown in previous post

If you're having deja vu, it's because you're familiar with Edwardb's builds. I took many cues from him.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162584&d=1644960793

Passenger side layout behind the dash. I mounted the Cobraheat seat heater relays here to a 1" angle aluminum bracket, which required rework of the supplied wiring harness. Extra coax for the GPS antenna is coiled up and secured. The inertia switch on the right. I'm not using the radio, wiper, and heater circuits. So, I left those wires long in case of future use. They are protected with shrink tubing on the ends, and secured in loom behind the Cobraheat loom.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162592&d=1644960944

460.465USMC

02-15-2022, 08:30 PM

Here is the view behind the dash with it installed. Like everyone says, it's pretty tight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162590&d=1644960944

View of driver's side footbox looking down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162591&d=1644960944

And, the dash is in place!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162589&d=1644960944

View from the driver's seat with gauge backlighting at full brightness. Flush mounted buttons along the bottom from left to right are: Hazard/flashers (green halo), push-button start (blue), and horn (red)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162595&d=1644960988

I couldn't help myself. This was fun to see for the first time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162594&d=1644960988

Here are a few of the notable wire "surgery" items and changes I made to the wiring harnesses:

Eliminated sending unit harness 6-pin connector, because I'm only using the oil pressure and H2O temp. wires.
Rear harness: removed Speedo wires, because I'm using GPS driven Speedo.
Coyote harness 6-way I/P Pigtail connections (also referred to as 16 way - not sure where the 16 way term comes from)? Cut short orange jumper toward front of RF fuse panel and soldered green from Coyote 6-way (Cavity 1). Cut to length orange EFI/Coil wire (ign switched) and soldered to light green from Coyote 6-way (Cavity 5). Cut to length light blue wire connected to Ign Sw "ST" (center post on mine) to Coyote 6-way (Cavity 3) - Starter Motor Request (SMR)..
A note on the LED converter module: the newer style tail lights are LED--the tail light is used for Stop and Turn Signal (i.e. only three wires on LED light). The converter is required.
USB: repurposed the fan circuit (Dark Blue Cooling Fan) wire to power, and the dark green "Fan Thermo Switch" wire to ground. I'm using the Coyote PCM to power and control the fan. My RF harness controls the fan via the ignition, so the USB outlets will only power with the ignition On. Thanks for the advice from Edwardb using this circuit.
12V aux outlet: wired directly to the 12V BSS with an inline 10A fuse. This allows me to plug in my battery to keep the battery topped off. Another brilliant idea from Edwardb--one of my favorites.
Powered the CobraHeat circuits by repurposing the 20A Heater ckt. While I had the harness disassembled, I removed the crimp splice and soldered it. This was the first use of my Power Probe III to test a circuit - both sets of seat heater pads work!

Feels really good to hit this milestone. Now, I'm really looking forward to the next phase of starting motor prep on the Coyote in preparation to drop it in eventually.

JohnK

02-15-2022, 08:55 PM

460.465USMC

02-15-2022, 09:10 PM

Very nice work Chris! Congratulations on completing the dash wiring. That's a huge accomplishment. The wiring turned out great. The new fobs that DGD provide look very nice - much nicer than the ones I got when I purchased mine.

Thanks, John! Your advice was key at several junctures. Much appreciated!

I was just thinking if I had to do it over, would I do it the same with all the changes and such? Um...I'm going to enjoy this for now, and then answer that at some point in the distant future. :p

Fman

02-15-2022, 11:55 PM

Nice work! You wiring is much nicer than mine looked... exciting to move on to engine install next!

egchewy79

02-16-2022, 07:59 AM

I like the set up. Looking good. Can't wait to see some miles on that odometer!

Blitzboy54

02-16-2022, 11:13 AM

Looks fantastic! Absolutely without a doubt one of my favorite parts of the build was getting the dash fully lit. Congratulations!

Your wiring harness behind the dash and in the footbox looks about the same as mine, to my eye looks pretty clean.

Papa

02-16-2022, 11:22 AM

Looking good, Chris! One thought for you regarding the LED lit switches/buttons on the dash. If you find them to be too bright, you can add resistors in the wiring to reduce the brightness, or you could tie them into another dimmer like the one you used for the gauges.

Dave

460.465USMC

02-16-2022, 03:27 PM

Nice work! You wiring is much nicer than mine looked... exciting to move on to engine install next!

Thanks, Travis! It all gets covered up, so I guess the important thing in the long run is whether my connections stay solid. I dread the day I would need to take it all apart to find out I had a bad crimp or solder. Really appreciate your feedback!

I like the set up. Looking good. Can't wait to see some miles on that odometer!

Hey Chewy! That day seems like an eternity away. But, that's okay because I'm having a blast with the build. At times I get frustrated at my slowness, but not much I can do about that. Thanks for the kind words.

Looks fantastic! Absolutely without a doubt one of my favorite parts of the build was getting the dash fully lit. Congratulations!

Your wiring harness behind the dash and in the footbox looks about the same as mine, to my eye looks pretty clean.

Hi Jesse. How is the body work waiting game going? It was fun to see some progress in your recent pictures.

Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I agree this milestone is really cool. Man, it was a lot of work, but overall it's very satisfying to see where I ended compared to my starting point.

Looking good, Chris! One thought for you regarding the LED lit switches/buttons on the dash. If you find them to be too bright, you can add resistors in the wiring to reduce the brightness, or you could tie them into another dimmer like the one you used for the gauges.

Dave

Thanks, Dave! Appreciate your engineering eye this. I have the Hazard (green) and Horn (red) tied into the dimmer circuit (gauges + switches) you helped me with. I'll have to see whether the Start/Run (blue) is too bright. If so, I suppose tying it into the dimmer with the others will be my first choice.

John Ibele

02-16-2022, 05:14 PM

Hey, fantastic progress, Chris. The work looks plenty neat to me. Plus, the rat's nest image makes you look like a genius! Congratulations on the progress!

460.465USMC

02-16-2022, 10:10 PM

Hey, fantastic progress, Chris. The work looks plenty neat to me. Plus, the rat's nest image makes you look like a genius! Congratulations on the progress!

That's the whole point of the rat's nest photo, right? ;) Thanks for the encouragement, John.

460.465USMC

02-16-2022, 11:37 PM

Question for the electrical gurus. I just swapped my front running light bulbs (1157) for the Watson Streetworks amber LEDs. They are a direct fit, i.e. plug-n-play. My MK4 kit came from F5 with LED tail lights and LED flashers, but with incandescent 1157 bulbs up front. However, when I put the LEDs in front they illuminate faintly. If I put a 1157 bulb back in place on one side (doesn't matter left or right), the LED illuminates as expected. Both sides have the same behavior. The tail lights are unaffected.

Doing a bit of research this evening, and it seems I may need to add a dummy load resistor (see below) because the LEDs don't draw enough current to fully actuate the flasher? I see a recommendation to add one to each front running light. Does this sound right? Would I need to add one to the turn signal wire, and a second to the running light wire, and repeat for the other side?

I intend to attach the grounds for the running lights to the frame at their respective corner. Could this help the issue? I wouldn't think so, because the 1157 bulbs draw more power. So, if it were a grounding issue, I would think it would surface with the 1157 before it would with the LEDs because they draw less power.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162670&d=1645071663

JohnK

02-17-2022, 12:35 AM

Hey Chris. I've also heard that LED bulbs don't place enough of a load on standard flashers for them to work properly, but I don't know if the dummy load resistors will work or not. FWIW - I purchased the complete LED lighting kit from Watsons Streetworks and it came with electronic LED flashers. I don't see those listed for sale separately on their website, but if the load resistors don't work you could give them a call and see if they're available for purchase. They work just fine with all LED bulbs at all corners.

Papa

02-17-2022, 08:29 AM

You should just need to swap out your flasher relays with something like these.

https://www.amazon.com/CEC-Industries-EF32RL-Flasher/dp/B00JXLH7CG/ref=sr_1_16?crid=2UE2VCFX4L9HH&keywords=turn+signal+flasher+for+led+lights&qid=1645104533&sprefix=turn+signal+flasher%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-16

You want a "no load" flasher in both the turn signal and hazard circuits.

JohnK

02-17-2022, 09:32 AM

Yeah, that looks pretty much exactly like the ones Watsons Streetworks provides in their LED lighting kits.

460.465USMC

02-17-2022, 11:06 AM

My kit came with standard mechanical flashers, and with two of these, which I thought were LED flashers. It states "No Load Flashers" on the plastic housing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162692&d=1645113753

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162693&d=1645113753

They don't, however, have the ground pigtail like the ones Papa linked to, or like the ones Watson Streetworks sells. Could that ground pigtail be the missing link?

JohnK

02-17-2022, 11:26 AM

I've never seen a true no load LED flasher without the ground wire so I looked them up:

https://www.keepitcleanwiring.com/catalog/Relays-and-Flashers/Flashers/KICFF552NLF/No-Load-Fixed-Flasher

In the specs they list bulb type as "incandescent or partial LED" :confused:

So... I think this is why FFR provided incandescent bulbs for the front. I suspect you may need to switch to a true no load flasher with ground pigtail to go to all LED bulbs.

Seems like an odd and confusing direction for FFR to go in to save, what... $5?

460.465USMC

02-17-2022, 11:47 AM

Ah! That totally makes sense given the LED behavior I’m seeing. No load flashers with ground pigtail to be ordered today! Nice sleuthing, John! Thanks!

edwardb

02-17-2022, 06:08 PM

FWIW, I've used the "no pigtail flashers" from Watson's (20th Anniversary Roadster) and they worked fine. LED's on all four corners. Both my Coupe and the Truck came with solid state flashers from Factory Five, and they had the grounding pigtails, which of course I used. Can't explain the difference or if that applies in your case. My guess is not but that's just a guess.

If you have electronic flashers already installed, and the circuit is working correctly with the LED rears and incandescent fronts, IMO the load resistors are not needed and won't solve anything. That's an old fashioned solution that's been replaced by using now widely available solid state flashers. I'm guessing you have a backfeed issue which others doing LED conversions have experienced. Often diodes will prevent. This thread (unfortunately without a solution) does cover some of the ground. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30444-LED-conversion-is-not-going-well

460.465USMC

02-17-2022, 07:45 PM

Oh, man! I just read through that thread, and stevant had his hands full. I truly hope I haven't landed an issue that extensive to troubleshoot. I don't have any funky lighting changes with my gauges or any other lighting. Just the dim LED issue with both front LEDs installed. I have a pair of no load LED flashers with ground pigtail on order. Hoping this will resolve.

After reading that thread I'm getting a little nervous about the LED projector beam headlights are arriving tomorrow. Doh!!

Appreciating the help and feedback from all you guys! I'll update once the replacement flashers are installed.

Papa

02-17-2022, 07:59 PM

Chris,

Did you try the hazard lights with the LED bulbs in the front? If those work, it could be a defective flasher relay. If that's the case, swap the hazard flasher to the turn signals and see what happens.

460.465USMC

02-17-2022, 08:46 PM

Good suggestion, Dave. Yes, I should have mentioned in my first post I tried the four-way flashers and the behavior is the same.

Blitzboy54

02-18-2022, 01:53 PM

460.465USMC

02-18-2022, 02:56 PM

My complete kit (delivered mid-Oct. 2020) came with two mechanical as well as two no-load LED flashers without ground pigtails (as shown above). I agree it is strange your kit came with the pigtails, and so did Edwardb's on two different kits/orders placed years apart.

I have two no-load LED flashers with ground pigtails on order. All of my testing has been with the kit supplied no-load LED flashers. Since I'm having no other electrical issues (yet!) associated with the very dim LED behavior, I'm hoping the new flashers will solve my issue.

460.465USMC

02-19-2022, 09:26 PM

I was able to start prep. on my Coyote/TKO drivetrain today. The stand Forte supplies are heavy duty and nice. However, they block installation of the starter and motor mounts. I noodled on this for a while and reached out to a couple Coyote forum members for their input. Ultimately, I decided to build a simple wood cradle. Of course, I copied the design from the forum (thanks, Edwardb!).

Before I made the cradle I was resting the motor on scrap 2" x 12" wood blocks. The TKO was also supported by blocks in the rear. However, I just wasn't comfortable with all that weight on the Moroso oil pan. No need to introduce unnecessary risk. I think this is much better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162822&d=1645322950

Assembling the motor mounts with the supplied 1/2" spacers was pretty straightforward. I really appreciate F5 powder coating these so I didn't have to. I used an impact driver to pull in the 3/8" x 1.5" carriage bolts, as the square shoulders put up a fight. The build manual does not specify torque for these, so I torqued to 30 ft-lb per the generic torque chart at the back of the manual. It provides recommended torque values for many common size bolts/thread counts. For the 10 MM bolts I torqued to 33 ft-lb--referenced the same chart.

With the Forte stands out of the way there was ample clearance to install the starter. So, checked that task off the list.

Much appreciation to Coyote builders Edwardb and JohnK for letting me bounce off questions on these topics. Very helpful!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162823&d=1645322950

460.465USMC

02-21-2022, 08:18 PM

My no-load LED flashers with ground pigtail arrived. I plugged them in and tested, and no more dim, half-hearted LEDs. Now the left and right front turn signals, and hazard-flasher operation work as expected. This puts me at LEDs on all four corners. Boy, those LEDs are bright, and omni-directional! Really glad this isn't turning into an electrical-feedback-ghost chase.

Thanks again to the forum for the valuable input, and to Papa for recommending these (~$12 each): CEC Industries 12V No-load LED Flashers (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JXLH7CG?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image)

Blitzboy54

02-22-2022, 12:14 PM

My no-load LED flashers with ground pigtail arrived. I plugged them in and tested, and no more dim, half-hearted LEDs. Now the left and right front turn signals, and hazard-flasher operation work as expected. This puts me at LEDs on all four corners. Boy, those LEDs are bright, and omni-directional! Really glad this isn't turning into an electrical-feedback-ghost chase.

Thanks again to the forum for the valuable input, and to Papa for recommending these ($12 for a pair): CEC Industries 12V No-load LED Flashers (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JXLH7CG?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image)

Outstanding! Love it when it when you get to the it works stage. Always feels great.

Keep up the good work Chris, you will be go karting before you know it.

460.465USMC

02-22-2022, 01:56 PM

Thanks, Jesse! Definitely glad this one seems to be put to bed! I have one more LED bridge to cross (headlights), so hope that one goes well. I can’t wait for first start…will be a while at my tuuuurtlee pace.

JB in NOVA

02-27-2022, 10:38 PM

Chris, just catching up on your build. It looks fantastic. Great job on the dash!

460.465USMC

02-28-2022, 02:02 PM

Thanks, JB! It was quite the journey. I learned a lot…still learning a lot!

Not sure what your winters are like, but I hope COBRA XX is seeing some fun driving miles.

460.465USMC

03-04-2022, 10:11 PM

The Lumen LED projector headlights arrived: Lumen 7" LED Projector Headlights (https://www.carid.com/1965-ford-gt-headlights/lumen-7-round-led-halo-projector-headlights-950696332.html?parentsubmodel[]=SUBMODEL|With+Factory+2-Headlight+System). I decided to go with LED projector style lights because of the big improvement they provide for night driving. My house is in a rural area, so good headlights are must. And, they come with halo DRLs. The halos will do amber switchback, but I'm not using that feature. The DRLs will increase my visibility to oncoming traffic. Not a bad thing. I know these are not for everyone, but just what I was looking for.

But first, I was able to rebuild my tool budget a bit, so picked up a Husky tool chest. The engine crane was very useful, allowing me to unload it myself.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163398&d=1646446275

Very handy rolling chest with wood-top work surface. Drawers handle 100 lbs each, and come with cushioned, grip liners. This means I'm "moving-on-up" from my three-drawer Craftsman, which I've been using since the mid-90s. This is a great upgrade for me!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163397&d=1646446173

I knew I wanted to use Weatherpack connectors on all four corners; however, just wasn't sure about purchasing a quality crimper at $125+. While researching crimpers, I stumbled upon pre-made Weatherpacks through Del City. I was surprised at how low the prices are per unit. And, they come with a 10 inch pigtail. They use 14 gauge, automotive rated wire. Sold. Of course, this means I introduce additional connection points when I solder in the pigtail ends. But, I'm confident on the durability of soldered connections, and it just cost me a little more time.

The four-way connector is for my headlight connection. Since I'm running LED DRLs, I needed the additional wire. Picked up their $6 pin removal tool while I was at it...just in case. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163399&d=1646446699

Headlights soldered into Weatherpacks, and run through bucket. Man, the wires coming out of the headlight are small. Not easy to work with, but I was able to make solid, soldered connections.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163400&d=1646446699

Once I was ready to test my wiring I couldn't help myself, and rigged up a way to hold the headlight in place while I tested operation. I'm using one of the two accessory outputs from the Digital Guard Dawg ignition module. This means the DRLs come on automatically when the engine starts, and turn off when ignition turns off. The running light below it still illuminates only with headlight switch. So, for daytime driving headlights will operate in DRL mode. The halo stays on when I turn on the headlights (both for low and high beam). The only bummer is I had to cut off the 3 pin connector, so the five year warranty is probably void.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163401&d=1646446699

Out of curiosity I measured the halogen and LEDs to see the difference in Amp draw:

Halogen low beam: 2.7
LED low beam: 1.77
Halogen high beam: 4.2
LED high beam: 3.66

BadAsp427

03-06-2022, 10:52 AM

The build it looking fantastic. The headlights will be nice...

460.465USMC

03-06-2022, 01:13 PM

Thanks, Carl! I'm still having a blast on the build.

Looks like I can tidy-up my work surfaces since my electrical will wind down for a bit. The picture above was a little startling. Time to reset as I transition to drivetrain prep.

460.465USMC

03-07-2022, 02:42 PM

So, I should have asked before, so hoping I'm okay here. I'm using the Coyote PCM to control cooling fan operation. Routed the orange cooling fan wire from the PCM along the PS upper 3/4" tube down to the bottom of the radiator. Then across to the fan wire connector. (Man, was that plastic two-prong connector a bear to slide together!) I hope I never have to pull it apart and re-connect!

My question is whether there are any clearance concerns from the clamps (red arrows) I fastened to the top of the 3/4" tube. Since the F5 supplied Coyote PCM bracket also attaches to this same tube I assumed it would be okay. Am I good here?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163549&d=1646681673

Second question: Before I soldered the PCM orange fan wire to the F5 supplied blue fan wire I tested the fan. It works! I can definitely hear it! Granted, it was in my garage with no other competing ambient noise. I had a tip from Fman about his experience with another Cobra owner who runs the Coyote that the noise can be pretty annoying. Anyone with Coyote experience have an opinion on cooling fan noise? I think I read it typically doesn't run much with cruising-type driving around on surface streets, even during warmer summer temps.

Papa

03-07-2022, 02:56 PM

Chris,

You should be fine with the way you did it. The top of that frame simply gets a piece of foam that will cover those clamps.

Dave

460.465USMC

03-07-2022, 03:19 PM

That's good news! Thanks, Dave!

edwardb

03-07-2022, 11:33 PM

Fman

03-08-2022, 12:57 AM

Chris if you think the fan noise will bother you definitely have the option to go with the Flex A Lite 3000 CFM, I can't even hear mine running at idle. I actually have to look at my volt gauge drop a little so I know it has kicked on. Much easier to change it up now than after the car has the body on it. Just something to consider but the FFR fan will also definitely get the job done.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-105390

460.465USMC

03-08-2022, 01:18 PM

Agree shouldn't be an issue. Kind of overkill (my opinion...) with the double convolute. The smaller tube in a cushioned clamp is fine. Will be hidden so maybe no reason to change. But I wouldn't bother with that same treatment elsewhere. Regarding the fan, you can hear it when stopped and at idle. Not so much while driving. The Gen 2 had an issue that Ford programmed it with limits that made it run almost constantly. Which many complained about. I haven't found that to be the case with my Gen 3 in my Coupe. It seems to run only when needed.

Hi Paul. I didn’t have the right size cushion clamps on hand to fit the smaller convolute, and I didn’t like the sloppiness. I haven’t done it elsewhere, but I’m sure you’re right on it being overkill…but at least I know it’s not going anywhere! :p. Also good to know it will be fine if I run into this again. Appreciate the confirmation re: the clearance issue.

Thanks for the reminder on the Coyote Gen 2 v. Gen 3 cooling fan duty cycle. I forgot about that. Good to know you don’t hear it when driving.

460.465USMC

03-08-2022, 01:22 PM

460.465USMC

03-13-2022, 11:27 PM

A few minor updates for last week's activities.

I've probably said this a couple time at least, but glad to be doing something different (anything!) than wiring. However, wanted to wrap up a few wiring loose ends on the list. So, as already mentioned (and shown) I secured the front fan wire from the PCM along the top 3/4" tube down to the fan. Then, similar cushioned clamps and rivets to secure the front wiring harness in the same fashion on the DS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163911&d=1647226597

Then, secured front harness and cooling fan wiring along the bottom of the radiator with cushioned clamps.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163913&d=1647231833

After that it was back to drivetrain prep. for drop-in. Installed the adapter chains for the oil pressure and water temp. sensors. I used Permatex thread sealant instead of the teflon tape called out in the F5 installation manual. I positioned the oil pressure sensor away from the alternator, and 90 deg. away from where the header will be directly above. Hopefully, this won't be a clearance issue during drivetrain installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163906&d=1647226391

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163907&d=1647226391

Then, I decided to tap into coil-on-plug #5. Peeled back about 1/2" of wire and soldered on a purple wire to match the one coming through the firewall from the Speedhut tach. I liked how Edwardb did it on his Gen 3, so I followed suit, including the spade connector. I will wrap it with either 1/4" convolute, electrical tape, or cloth wrap after the drivetrain is in. I already have the Speedhut tach. programmed for 1/2 pulse setting for the coil-on-plug option.

Wire bundle opened up for surgery:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163908&d=1647226425

All put back together:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163909&d=1647226425

I ordered the TKO spacer kit from Forte, and decided to powder coat. While I have the powder coating stuff setup, I also PCd the front and rear jack attachments. I tried a new powder called Burnt Toast. It has some texture, and the sheen matches the chassis pretty closely. Before I put everthing away, I'll PC the headlight mounting and trim rings, and the front turn signal trim rings.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163910&d=1647226425

I made most of the plumbing connections on the motor, so not too much more to do there before drop-in. However, I have a pretty good sized list of other items to complete before drop-in, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel for drivetrain install! Pretty excited about it.

JohnK

03-14-2022, 12:17 AM

Hey Chris. Congratulations on getting through the wiring. That was one of the most time-consuming parts of the build for me, so I know the sense of relief you must be feeling to have that behind you. Can't wait to see that engine go in, and hear the first start!

Papa

03-14-2022, 07:36 AM

Chris,

You're making great progress! One tip for you, though. It'll be a lot easier getting the engine in if the radiator is out if the way. It'll also keep you from damaging the radiator.

Dave

460.465USMC

03-14-2022, 02:53 PM

Chris,

You're making great progress! One tip for you, though. It'll be a lot easier getting the engine in if the radiator is out if the way. It'll also keep you from damaging the radiator.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. You convinced me. Better to not take any chances, and like you said, the extra room there will likely come in handy when I'm wiggling in the tight 5.0. But dang! This means I have to pull apart and reconnect that impossible fan connector. :p Maybe I should just take the opportunity to swap it out for a Weather pack.

460.465USMC

03-16-2022, 10:01 PM

Was installing some pinch clamps today on a few of the Coyote plumbing questions, and this dangling factory connector caught my attention. It's right above the #5 coil-on-plug, right where I made the tach. wire connection. Somehow didn't notice it then. It looks similar to the connectors on the coils.

Does anyone know if this connector has a home? I'm not seeing anything obvious, and didn't see any instructions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164051&d=1647485819

460.465USMC

04-03-2022, 11:07 PM

I took a little detour from the Roadster build to upgrade the headlights on my 2002 Civic. This was my son's car, and I hope to do small upgrades to it over time, as he wanted to do. The older halogens worked, but driving on roads without street lights is a real disadvantage compared to modern projector beam, LEDs, etc. They were a bit more of a challenge to install than I anticipated, as the DS front corner took some damage at some point in its life. So, had to work around mounting points not exactly lining up. In the end I prevailed, and wired in a separate circuit for the DRLs--shown below--which I can control from the inside with a latching SPST illuminated switch. Ben would have liked them. I called him Boosky from the time he was a toddler, until he grew out of it around age ten or so.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165015&d=1649042225

I almost forgot about powder coating the headlight mounting and trim rings. So, took care of that during my last session while I had all the stuff set up. I'm leaving the protective plastic film on as long as I can to protect the lens covers.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165016&d=1649042432

I'm whittling down my list of To Dos before installing the drivetrain. One of those items was to finalize the rear harness install. So, dropped the gas tank (again!) and began routing and securing the harnesses with cushion clamps. I left the purple wires in the rear harness in case of future use. While the gas tank was out, I took advantage of the extra working space and filled the IRS. It turns out it had about the right amount of fluid as shipped from F5, so I probably could have just left it. But, I wanted to be certain about the quantity, type, and mix of the friction modifier and gear lube. I found good pricing on these from Amazon:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165017&d=1649042755

I also picked up transmission fluid (see above) and some anaerobic gasket maker to re-seal the TKO600 shifter cover after drivetrain install. I bought a 300 CC syringe to navigate the tight quarters to fill the IRS. It worked pretty good to pull the fluids from the container and push them into the differential fill opening. And yes, it put a serious stink on the garage...going on Day 2 so far. I'll fill the transmission before installing it. I'm also testing the fuel lines overnight using the Fragola #900666 (Summit Racing - appreciate Fman's recommend on this kit). I pumped about 85 PSI with a bicycle pump. We'll see what the PSI is tomorrow.

Back to the rear harness install, here's how I routed things:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165018&d=1649043352

I referenced Edwardb's rear harness install to ensure no interference with the Russ Thompson drop trunk. I also liked how he added grounds at all four corners, so I did the same. However, I couldn't figure out how he made the nut serts work, so I drilled through both sides of the 3/4" tubes and secured with nylon lock nuts. Added a dab of dielectric grease between the ring terminal and the area where I removed the powder coat. I'll wire up the other halves of the Weatherpacks once I'm closer to getting the body on. My electrical check list is growing ever smaller!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165020&d=1649043374

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165019&d=1649043374

After reading about various coolant leak issues on the forum, I decided to go with Gates Powergrip SB clamps. Getting a tip from JohnK I went with the AllStar Performance brand (appear to be Gates, but rebranded) on Summit Racing. It appears Eddie Motorsports rebrands these as well (also on Summit). I installed my first pair on the 5/8" heater bypass hose on the motor. Just a bit of hot air with the hot air gun and done. I'm already a fan. Easy to install, and they get high reviews for being very effective. Given my propensity for doing things twice, I picked up the Gates removal tool ($30), so when I do have to remove one of these (not if, but when!) thermoplastic clamps, I can do so without damaging the hose. Cheap insurance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165021&d=1649043638

Question: while installing the 10-32 SS socket head screws on my corner grounds, I managed to gall one. Thankfully, I was able to keep twisting the nut until it broke off. I replaced it with the same, but coated the tip with anti-seize the second time around. I'm doing that now (coating stainless on stainless fasteners with anti-seize), but didn't on these because of the nylon lock nuts. Does anyone know if the anti-seize (Permatex) degrades the nylon in the lock nuts? If so, I'll need to remove them and replace with lock washers/regular nuts and a bit of blue Loctite.

JohnK

04-04-2022, 12:15 AM

Hey Chris. That's pretty special that you're continuing on with some of the upgrades on the Civic that your son wanted to do. What a great way to keep him in your thoughts in a positive way.

Great progress on the build! I really like the powder coat on the headlight rings.

I also had issues with SS socket head screws galling, especially when using nyloc nuts. That combo was greater than 50/50 chance of galling if I didn't use anti-seize. No concern with using anti-seize with nylon nuts that I'm aware of.

facultyofmusic

04-04-2022, 11:41 AM

Loving the progress Chris! I'm following close behind! Looking forward to the engine first start video :p

460.465USMC

04-04-2022, 12:40 PM

I also had issues with SS socket head screws galling, especially when using nyloc nuts. That combo was greater than 50/50 chance of galling if I didn't use anti-seize. No concern with using anti-seize with nylon nuts that I'm aware of.

Hi, John. My galling ratio in that combo is at least 50/50 as well! Appreciate the feedback. I’ll leave them as-is, with anti-seize applied.

Loving the progress Chris! I'm following close behind! Looking forward to the engine first start video :p

Hi Dan. I’m looking forward to it as well. That will be a great day for me! I hope it occurs in 2022! No doubt you will pass me given my tuuuuuurtlee pace. That’s a good thing, because then I have another good source for ideas and tips.

Windsor

04-04-2022, 10:32 PM

FYI, if you want some locking but think Loctite “blue” might be a bit much, their purple (222) is the way to go.

As with all of their products, keep it away from ABS unless you don’t mind deformed/ugly ABS.

460.465USMC

04-13-2022, 09:59 AM

Making progress on my To Do list before drivetrain install, but nothing much to show yet. After finishing up the rear harness install, I started testing the stainless braided fuel lines I made (supplied from Breeze). The return line is leak free, but both ends of the supply line have slow leaks. I'm using the Fragola line test kit. I've gone back and forth with Mark at Breeze, and he thinks the leaks are coming from the tapered metal-to-metal seal between the fitting and the Fragola test plugs. He suggested cinching them just a bit more, but not with the Fragola ends on. See if they leak/seep at final connections, and if so, cinch them just a bit more. He very well may be correct, but I'd much rather prove leak-free connections now, before dropping in the drive train. So, after spending quite a bit of time redoing these connectors from scratch, I decided to step away from this for a bit, and focused on the trunk panels. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

All of my trunk panels are now fitted and drilled. I made upper side panels as many have done--more on that in my next update. Unsure how visible the trunk side panels are once the body is on, I decided to coat them black. They turned out pretty bad (okay, it's awful!), but I really don't want to spend more time on them unless they are visible with the body on.

Can someone let me know how visible these are with the body on? (This picture is from the F5 build instruction manual).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165424&d=1649861350

Jeff Kleiner

04-13-2022, 10:21 AM

edwardb

04-13-2022, 10:31 AM

What Jeff said about the side panels. Regarding your fuel lines, I think Mark has a good point. I too have experienced slight leaking (bubbling when underwater) from the Fragola test fittings unless they're cinched down really tight. Try tightening them a bit more. If you're seeing bubbles from the end versus where the connector and the lines come together, pretty good chance they're OK. For the record, multiple builds and I haven't had a single one of these kinds of hose fittings leak once installed.

460.465USMC

04-13-2022, 11:34 AM

See where the panel makes that vertical step down? Once the rear splash panel is installed the portion forward of there is visible behind the rear wheel… but if it’s black it will pretty disappear when the car is on the ground. The portion aft of that is only visible if you’re laying under the car looking up behind the splash panel.

Jeff

Jeff, you just made my day! I'm going to call it good. My wife thanks you too, as this means I can get these off the kitchen table!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165426&d=1649866762

What Jeff said about the side panels. Regarding your fuel lines, I think Mark has a good point. I too have experienced slight leaking (bubbling when underwater) from the Fragola test fittings unless they're cinched down really tight. Try tightening them a bit more. If you're seeing bubbles from the end versus where the connector and the lines come together, pretty good chance they're OK. For the record, multiple builds and I haven't had a single one of these kinds of hose fittings leak once installed.

Thanks for the feedback, Paul. Yes, they are bubbling a little when under water. I sent pictures and a video to Mark of the bubble leak points, and he thought my connections were good based upon where the bubbles are originating (i.e. the leak is not between the hose and the fitting but between the fittings). The supply line is not losing a huge volume of air: after leaving it overnight it still had PSI. I just wish there were no bubbles like the return line.

460.465USMC

05-05-2022, 02:43 PM

Spring chores were calling my name, so I had to put my toys down, get out of the sandbox, and act like a homeowner for a couple weeks. Now that firewood for next winter is stacked in the woodshed, and Spring weed mitigation is done, I'm back on the build.

On my last update, I mentioned my trouble with minor leaks on both ends of my fuel supply line (return line is leak-free). After consulting Mark at Breeze and the forum here, I'm going to call it good for now. I really don't want to step away from an unresolved issue (especially fuel related!), but not sure what else I can do until I make the final connections and charge the system to the recommended 65 PSI.

While I was noodling on the fuel leak, I installed the trunk side panels. Since these are not very visible once the body is on--thankfully so given my finger-painting level quality--figured it was a good opportunity to try my hand at painting rivets. My daughter, Grace, ran the drill press while I positioned the "rivet holder" (scrap piece of 2"x12") and together we drilled 120 holes. Just deep enough to accommodate 1/8" short and long rivets. I needed about 65 for the trunk side panels, but made up 100 of the short, and 20 of the long to have extras on hand. This is after applying Eastwood Chassis black from a rattle can.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166249&d=1651772070

You can see the silver centers of the rivets once they're installed, but they certainly stand out less than if they were uncoated.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166244&d=1651771954

By the way, I've played around a bit with how to keep silicone from hardening after the tube is opened, as I don't typically have enough panel install work at one time to use a whole tube. This plastic cap and plastic wrap combination kept this tube usable for quite some time (at least a couple months). The GE silicone is kind of expensive to be throwing away half-used tubes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166250&d=1651772070

Next up was to make upper side trunk panels. Following in the footsteps of many on the forum, I bought a 0.040 remnant from my local metal supplier, created a template from a cereal box, and then cut out the panel using my jig saw. Like others, I put down painters blue tape (3M) along the lines I cut. It took me a number of hours to cut out and trim both sides (no surprise here) until they fit decently. Working the panel in between the outer roll bar mount, the upper seat belt mount, and the 3/4" tube is the tricky part. I enlarged the semi-circle opening for greater clearance around the roll bar mount until it slid in easier (not easy, but with less binding).

Panel cut out and drilled.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166243&d=1651771954

Cleco'd in place. Ready for future installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166242&d=1651771954

Wanting to close-up all gaps and holes before drivetrain install--difficult to access afterward--I painted and installed the small cover over the hole in the DS of trans tunnel. The black painted rivets came in handy.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166245&d=1651771954

460.465USMC

05-05-2022, 02:44 PM

Prep for Drivetrain Install is Winding Down - Part 2

I followed JohnK's lead in laying a bead of Dynatron seam sealer around the rear shock mounts, and on either side see his post #117 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Lucas-L692-tail-lights)&p=455761&viewfull=1#post455761). I don't know if it's needed, but I like the idea of a little insurance just in case. Heavy duty tape (Gorilla tape) was used on the other side to keep it from squeezing through. I also used the seam sealer inside the DS FB. Along the inside panel where it meets the 4" chassis tube and the inside panel of the DS FB. And, to seal up some other gaps like around the seatbelt mounts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166246&d=1651771954

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166248&d=1651771999

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166247&d=1651771999

Local builder, Jim, trimmed the rear arms of my front UCAs (thanks again, Jim!). Interestingly, the DS front upper arm is still 1/8" too long. I'm wondering if it will need to be trimmed as well?

On the PS, since the ball joint was torqued down, it didn't want to separate. Not even with some persuasion from a hammer. Needless to say, the welded stud on the PS remains at its original length. So, just the recommended amount was trimmed from the sleeve (~3/16" of each side--basically, the tapered part) and the corresponding amount from the hollow stud.

For reference, here's how the PS looked before trimming (not able to adjust to recommended starting measurements):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166268&d=1651779547

After (adjusted to recommended starting measurements)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166269&d=1651779547

Does anyone have comments on whether the front arm will need to be trimmed to achieve good power steering alignment?

**Jim came over and figured out my issue. I mixed up the lengths on the DS, i.e. reversed measurements between front and rear arm. So, as JohnK noted below no need to trim forward arm on DS.**

I'm running out of excuses for dropping in the drivetrain...

JohnK

05-05-2022, 05:37 PM

Fman

05-05-2022, 06:48 PM

Chris, good choice on trimming those front sleeves. Just had a friend in my area go get his car aligned for first time and he did not trim the sleeves and could not reach proper alignment. The shop charged him $500 to take everything apart and trim them down.

Nice job on the build, looking forward to seeing your Coyote land in it's new home!

460.465USMC

05-05-2022, 08:25 PM

Hey Chris. Looks good! Good luck dropping in the drivetrain. I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun. Can't wait to see photos of it installed.

FWIW - I've never heard of anyone having to trim the front sleeves to get proper alignment.

Thanks for the input, John. I haven't read of any others cutting the front arms either. I think it best to hold on that until I take a swing at alignment later on.

Thanks for the encouragement. The drivetrain install is a little intimidating for this greenhorn, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Chris, good choice on trimming those front sleeves. Just had a friend in my area go get his car aligned for first time and he did not trim the sleeves and could not reach proper alignment. The shop charged him $500 to take everything apart and trim them down.

Nice job on the build, looking forward to seeing your Coyote land in it's new home!

Hi Travis. I waffled on the whole trimming UCA arms, but now that it's done I can't see any down side. Thanks for the kind comments!

Jim Frahm

05-06-2022, 10:39 AM

Hey Chris,

Did you say you’re going to fill the trans before installing it in the car? I’m not sure if the output shaft area is sealed off from the rest of the trans. If not then all your trans fluid will run out when installing in the car. I’m sure some builders with experience can chime in?

Jim

460.465USMC

05-06-2022, 12:03 PM

Yes, it's full. I thought I read to fill before hand as it's much easier to access, but maybe I shouldn't have?

JohnK

05-06-2022, 12:14 PM

Jim is right - it will spill out the output shaft opening. You could try taping it up, but I'm not sure how well that will work. I'd probably drain it and then refill after install. I picked up one of these and it made filling up the trans and rear end a lot easier.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CX4XKFH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

460.465USMC

05-06-2022, 02:38 PM

With all the reading I've done I'm still amazed about how many things I miss. Phew! A messy lesson narrowly avoided! Thanks, Jim and John! Trans fluid coming back out before install!

460.465USMC

05-08-2022, 10:01 PM

Almost 18 months after getting the Gen 3 Coyote/TKO600 in my garage, they are now in my Roadster! It's easily been several hundreds of hours of build up to this point, and feels really good to see it nestled (ever so tightly!) in the chassis.

My wife gifted me the Harbor Freight two-ton engine crane and leveler for Christmas. I'm not sure if it was a Christmas Eve sale, but there was a $70 savings, and they threw in a year's membership. They still come with the red plastic handle many forum members have had issues with. I did too. I wasn't happy with the engine hoist attachments (I bought from Forte (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Prep-for-Drivetrain-Install-is-Winding-Down&p=438573&viewfull=1#post438573)). No concerns with the quality, but they only attach to a single M10 header bolt on either side. I'm sure Forte wouldn't sell them if there was a strength issue. However, I found a set off of eBay for $40 shipped, and made in the USA! These attach to the bosses on the motor: two bolts secure each bracket to the motor--left side front, and on the rear-right. This approach inspired much more confidence when the drivetrain is suspended 4+ feet off the floor. Glad I tested the crane and hoist setup ahead of time to work out a few Gotchas!

Dry run the night before. Plenty of clearance above upper 3/4" tube, and a couple inches to spare between the crane legs and the 4" chassis. Bonus question: what additional items in this picture will become obstacles during the actual attempt?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166445&d=1652061147

Let the games begin! My daughter, Grace, keeps a close eye on the operations, perched high above for maximum optics.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166446&d=1652061147

Progress! Plenty of maneuvering left to go. Any rational person would be saying at this point, "It ain't gonna fit"! Thankfully, I have my German engineering consultant and fellow local builder, Jim, here for precision guidance! Jim is on the left, while I adjust the leveler for a change in roll?? of the engine (side-to-side).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166450&d=1652061259

Installation of the DS header underway. We're about 1 hour 45 minutes in at this point. The beast has been slain, so we transition to mop-up work like threading a bolt in to keep the driveshaft in place, install the transmission A-frame mount, etc. At this point Jim came up with the clever idea to raise the DS side of the motor up a little to give us a bit more finger space to thread in the DS header bolts. Thanks to a tip from JohnK I used a dab of Ultra Copper RTV on each header bolt.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166454&d=1652061259

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166457&d=1652063601

Afterward it was time to celebrate our victory with a burger at Five Guys!

I can't thank Jim enough for his expertise and help. He was instrumental, and I couldn't have done it without him! Also, I really appreciate all the tips from the forum, and in particular from Coyote builders JohnK and Edwardb. Also, to Papa for the tip to remove the radiator. More on that in a minute.

460.465USMC

05-08-2022, 10:05 PM

Some time ago I posted a picture of a header dent, right on the lip of the four-into-one collector. Since it's just a hair below where it seals, I decided to attempt to restore it as close as possible to its original shape myself with an adjustable wrench--another tip from the forum (Railroad). Here's how it turned out. The header on the right had the dent.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166456&d=1652063564

Here are some of the key tips I followed that made a big difference in the drivetrain install:

Wheel dollies for ground clearance for the engine crane legs. (Had these already on-hand).
Swing break reservoirs out of the way. Mine mount to DS upper 3/4" tube.
Remove steering shaft.
Remove the 1/2" NPT on PS, and 16 MM plug on DS from Moroso oil pan

Here are a few lessons learned (and answers to obstacles question above):

In addition to removing radiator, remove the lower Breeze rad mount and swing wiring harness out of the way--see picture below.
Swing Coyote PDB fuse box away. Mine mounts to top of PS footbox.
Remove gauge from Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator.
Remove hood hinges.

The HF crane needed to move forward to the front sway bar (red arrow pointing down). You can see how far forward it needed to go before I realized the lower Breeze radiator mount and wire loom were in the way. D' oh!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166448&d=1652061147

I really enjoyed this challenge, though it had a harrowing moment. I'm kind of giddy whenever I go out to the garage and see the drivetrain in place!

Blitzboy54

05-08-2022, 10:40 PM

Big win my friend!!

Great job

JohnK

05-08-2022, 10:58 PM

Awesome work Chris! That's a big milestone. Seeing that engine finally in place must put a huge smile on your face. First start can't be far off now. ;)

JeffP

05-09-2022, 05:58 AM

Ahh, I remember that day all too well. I had planned on dropping mine in for 'mock ups' and once it was in, I quickly decided it wasn't coming back out. Congrats, looks great!

460.465USMC

05-09-2022, 02:37 PM

Big win my friend!!

Great job

Thanks, Jesse! For this first-timer it feels like a big deal, indeed!

Awesome work Chris! That's a big milestone. Seeing that engine finally in place must put a huge smile on your face. First start can't be far off now. ;)

Yes, pretty sure I'm still smiling two days later. I'm excited to keep moving forward toward first start. Thanks again for all the tips and info.

Ahh, I remember that day all too well. I had planned on dropping mine in for 'mock ups' and once it was in, I quickly decided it wasn't coming back out. Congrats, looks great!

I hear you! There's no doubt in my mind I don't want to reverse this! Man, it looks good in there. Thanks, Jeff!

facultyofmusic

05-09-2022, 02:58 PM

Looking great Chris!

(EDIT: I asked about hood hinges. I should have read your posts more carefully. Sorry about that.)

Jim Frahm

05-09-2022, 05:23 PM

I still can’t believe it fits! It was my pleasure to give you a hand. The real star of the show was Grace as she watched over us while the two knuckleheads installed a motor that’s too big into a space that’s too small.

The smile on your face and the look of weight lifting off your shoulders after it was in was priceless.

On to the next step!

John Ibele

05-17-2022, 12:01 PM

Hey, isn't that a kick? So great to see the engine resting in its final 'home'. Well done, good tips Chris ... you had a lot more space considerations that I did with my tiny SBF :). Onward!

... and to answer your implied question ... nope, couldn't spot the dent! Finally, great shot of the safety / fire marshall perched on top of the fridge. Can never have too much moral support!

460.465USMC

05-17-2022, 02:21 PM

Thanks, John! So many fun parts of the build available to me now that the drivetrain is in. Looking forward to next steps.

My fire marshall has good reason to keep a watchful eye...no doubt she'll be the first to raise her hand for a ride.

Papa

05-18-2022, 08:47 AM

Chris,

Congratulations on a BIG milestone in the build. It really starts to feel a lot more like a car once the engine is in place. Can't wait for the first start video.

Dave

460.465USMC

05-18-2022, 01:59 PM

Thanks, Dave! I still feel like I'm walking on-air some two weeks later. I'm truly indebted to you and so many other good builders for the many great tips and knowledge sharing here on the forum. I can't stand in the engine bay any more: I'm good with that. :p

460.465USMC

05-22-2022, 10:02 PM

I'm starting to chip away at my To Do list, which I hope will eventually get me to First Start. Right now the list is growing, as I keep thinking of more items to complete, faster than I'm getting others done. Once I pushed the rolling chassis back up on the lift (heavier now with the drivetrain installed!), I refilled the TKO with the AC Delco 75W-80 Synchromesh fluid I had carefully removed and stored.

I added a 45 degree 1/8-27 NPT to angle my fuel press gauge upward which makes it easier to read. This was a tip I read on the forum.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167148&d=1653273252

I made up my last section of fuel line and installed. I'm using a 3/8" tube swage to 6 AN on the fuel rail side that came with my Breeze stainless braided fuel line kit. It passed the leak test (ends submerged in water--no bubbles)! I also connected the kit supplied vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167149&d=1653273252

Next, I removed the unused tab in the trunk with my angle grinder. There's just something satisfying about using that tool! I fine tuned it a bit with a hand file, then applied a couple coats of black paint after this picture was taken.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167150&d=1653273449

Something I haven't been looking forward to was cutting the 3/4" tube that interferes with the mid-shift position. I knew I wanted the shifter forward of the stock location, so I threw caution to the wind and cut the diagonal. I don't have welding or any real metal fabrication skills, so I wish there was an off-the-shelf bracket of sorts I could bolt on to reinforce it. Anyway, it's done now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167146&d=1653272989

I also made an extension bracket from a piece of quarter inch thick by 2.25" steel I had in my bucket of scrap goodies. This moves the shifter forward an additional 2 1/8". I haven't installed the Breeze seat bases I'll be using, so my exact seating position is not yet known. So, I made a second set of 3/8" holes in the middle in case the 2+ inches is too far forward. Then I hit it with some Eastwood chassis black as you see here. It's temp. in place here with misc. hardware until the dome head SS 3/8-24 bolts arrive from McMaster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167147&d=1653272989

Next, I grounded the engine on the DS using the 12 inch black jumper (4 AWG) that I believe came with the Breeze forward battery mount kit. I used a M8-1.25 boss on the block just below the power steering pump lower mount.

Driver side ground

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167144&d=1653272645

I also grounded the PS of the motor. For that I used the flat braided grounding strap that comes with the kit. I drilled a 5/16" hole in the motor mount and connected the other end to the block in a M10-1.5 mounting boss--just to the rear of the motor mount. Not visible in this picture, but I removed the powder coat on the inside of the motor mount with the wire brush attachment on my Dremel, and applied a bit of dielectric grease. The most resistance I could find between the battery negative post and various points on the engine block was 0.2 Ohms. I'm good with that. Perhaps unnecessary to ground both sides of the block, but I had all the pieces on-hand, so why not?

Passenger side ground

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167145&d=1653272645

In a post quite few months back I described how I was stumped as to why my PS front wheel had a lot of toe-in. So much so I couldn't push it on and off the lift. Well, when local builder, Jim, was over to help with the drivetrain install, I asked what he thought. He discovered I had reversed the length adjustment between front and rear UCA arms on the DS. So, it was the DS out of whack, not the PS! After correcting to the F5 recommended measurements, the PS and DS are now pretty much symmetrical. Mystery solved. Thanks, Jim!

P.S. I'm off the fence on the Moroso recovery tank option: going for it! Ordered the parts this weekend ($$ ouch!) from Summit Racing. A big thanks to Edwardb for thoroughly documenting the parts list!

Jim Frahm

05-23-2022, 12:28 AM

You are moving right along. I can almost hear that thing running. The more I look at your progress the more I realize I have a lot more to do before my first start….

Jim

toadster

05-23-2022, 10:42 AM

wow congrats! great job!

Blitzboy54

05-23-2022, 11:07 AM

Love the shifter Chris. Might need to play with your opening/boot to accommodate the adaptor you made. I would offset the hole forward, maybe get a test piece and play with it when it's time.

460.465USMC

05-23-2022, 01:27 PM

Love the shifter Chris. Might need to play with your opening/boot to accommodate the adaptor you made. I would offset the hole forward, maybe get a test piece and play with it when it's time.

Hi Jesse. Yeah, I was thinking about the transmission tunnel cover hole and boot as well. Like you suggest, I will probably use the kit supplied trans tunnel cover to mock up the hole diameter/centering. Then, order a trans tunnel cover from one of the forum vendors (my little brake is only 30", so can't do the bend myself).

John Ibele

05-24-2022, 09:37 AM

Something I haven't been looking forward to was cutting the 3/4" tube that interferes with the mid-shift position. I knew I wanted the shifter forward of the stock location, so I threw caution to the wind and cut the diagonal. I don't have welding or any real metal fabrication skills, so I wish there was an off-the-shelf bracket of sorts I could bolt on to reinforce it. Anyway, it's done now.

I had to do something similar with the 3/4" tube that interfered with the clutch on the early MK4 frames. I drilled and tapped some inserts which I JB Welded in the ends of the cut frame, then attached a solid piece of steel connecting bar to the two inserts, which looks okay:

https://live.staticflickr.com/865/41877535391_8520a5b763_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Nzjhg)
Pedal box (https://flic.kr/p/26Nzjhg) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

One other thought, you could get some steel channel of the same dimensions, and cut of 3 of the 4 walls on the ends, so that you have a 'tab' you can bend on each end. With that, you could replace the whole bar with one just behind it that you bolt into the frame, drilling and bolting through the tabs. The way I figure it neither solution is going to behave the same way when crumpled, so it's all what works for the builder's peace of mind. Way to keep moving through the list, Chris, we're kinda at the same stage now.

460.465USMC

05-24-2022, 12:34 PM

Hi John. I don't think the first option will work, as the shifter travel might touch the support tube. I think the second option you suggested would work. Thanks for the idea! Good food for thought.

460.465USMC

05-28-2022, 10:12 PM

The next item I tackled this week was the Forte hydraulic clutch slave cylinder install. Here are the instructions from Mike's website:

TO ADJUST THE CLUTCH:
– YOU MUST PUSH THE SLAVE PISTON REARWARD TO BOTTOM OF THE CYLINDER SO THE PISTON
RETURNS TO THE BASE OF STROKE
- YOU WILL NEED TO CUT TO FIT PUSHROD
- ONCE CUT USE THREADED ADJUSTER TO SET 3/16″ (.187) CLEARANCE SPACING

Looking for some more context as to what is meant by "clearance spacing" (yes, I'm a noobie!) I did some research on the forum. That helped fill in some of the gap, but ultimately I had to reach out to a couple guys (local builder Jim and Edwardb) to really understand how this works. With their help, here's how I installed the slave cylinder and set the spacing:

Move clutch fork forward so the throw-out bearing is making contact with the clutch fingers.
Thread the rod into the threaded adjuster about half way. The rod is just a 5/16-24 bolt with the head cut off. If you cut it too short, no biggie. Pick up a replacement at the hardware store.
Put the metal bushing on the other end of the rod, and push it into the cup of the piston.
Slide the piston all the way in (fully retracted).
Cut off enough of the rod to allow for 3/16" of play, or "clearance" (i.e. the fork moves off of the clutch fingers and toward the slave ~3/16").
Tighten the jam nut.

I installed a hose clamp over the rubber boot, so it won't push off during clutch engagement. Like some others I added a second 1/4-20 bolt at the clutch fork attachment point just for good measure. Here's how it turned out:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167396&d=1653791212

The Coyote/TKO setup I ordered from Forte came with a cover over the clutch fork. At first, I thought it was just for protection during transport. But as I looked at it more closely, it became obvious someone put some thought into it. It attaches with two 10-24 screws into the bellhousing, and even has foam strips along its edges that make contact with the bellhousing. Seems like a good piece to keep in place for protection against road debris and whatnot. I had to open up the U-shaped hole to allow ample clearance for the slave piston/boot to travel forward during the clutch engagement stroke. Added a piece of edge trim, cleaned up the surfaces, lightly sanded, and then hit it with a coat of Dupli-Color clear ceramic. It hangs down 5/8" below the 4" chassis tubes, which is 1/8" below the bottom of the bellhousing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167397&d=1653791212

To install the SS braided hose with -3AN connectors that Forte supplies with the kit, I drilled a 1/2" hole through the top of the DS FB inner wall, near the firewall. I ran the braided host through this hole, passing through a high temp. grommet. I sleeved the braided line with a short piece of 1/4" rubber fuel hose, so it won't rub on the 1" diagonal brace (a bit hard to see in the pic, but visible if you follow the braided hose down toward the slave). Then, secured it with a cable tie through a 1/4" cushion clamp on the same 1" tube.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167398&d=1653791212

Next up was running the oil pressure and H2O temp. harnesses from the firewall exit. I ran them along the top of the left side of the motor below the fuel rail, and then secured them around the front of the head and down to their respective plugs (I'll add additional routing pics on next update). I'm using the Speedhut wiring harnesses/connectors. I protected the harnesses with high temp. wire loom, and then wrapped with high temp. cloth. I've been wrapping all of the wiring I've installed in the engine bay with this cloth. Perhaps some additional temp. protection, and I think it gives a more finished look than exposed wire loom. I'm securing these wires with cable ties, so they are as far away as possible from the headers. The cable ties I'm using are from McMaster-Carr and rated to 230 deg.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167395&d=1653791146

This past week I was chatting with my wife about the F5 open house coming up in a couple weeks. To my surprise, she encouraged me to go. Seriously. It's a long haul from Spokane, and not cheap. But it will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me. So, with her encouragement I booked the tickets. It should be a lot of fun. I hope to meet a number of other builders there, tour the factory, and enjoy the car show. I welcome anyone else to let me know if you're planning to go. While there, I'm also going to visit a couple of the forum vendors. I think it's going to be a blast!

facultyofmusic

05-29-2022, 04:06 AM

Nicely done Chris! The water and oil sensors look clean! Also nice to see you've already finished wiring your dash... I'm just getting started on that after dropping the engine and will be taking inspirations from your posts. :P

460.465USMC

05-29-2022, 10:40 AM

Thanks, Dan! I'm really enjoying this phase of the build. In retrospect, I may have been better served to do the bulk of the dash wiring after the motor was installed. I think this would have helped me to minimize some of the guess work in determining the wiring lengths.

460.465USMC

06-03-2022, 12:37 PM

Okay, time to put my ignorance on display (again!). I'm going to add power steering fluid to the KRC power steering pump tank. Then, I want to spin the KRC pulley with my drill to "bleed" the system and check for leaks. I'll have someone turning the steering wheel back-and-forth at the same time.

Here's my question: which way does the Coyote motor rotate as viewed from the front? I've been searching and what I've found is many (most?) motors rotate clockwise as viewed from the front. I want to be certain before I spin the pulley. Not sure if it would screw up anything in the pump if rotated backwards, but I don't want to find out. Please advise.

facultyofmusic

06-03-2022, 12:41 PM

Papa

06-03-2022, 03:30 PM

Chris,

This should help...

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/direction-of-rotation-for-coyote.612161/

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/power-steering-pump-rotation.396762/

460.465USMC

06-04-2022, 01:55 PM

It was time to wrap up the engine bay wiring. At this point it was primarily routing the Coyote harnesses and various legs to their destination. Again, I applied the cloth vinyl wrap to most of the harness legs.

I couldn't find a home for the C132 Ambient Air Temp Sensor (AAT). It's part of the harness that splits into three legs on the DS and also includes the MAF and Alternator connections. To my relief I found it's not used as asked/answered here: Is the C132 Ambient Air Temp Sensor used (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40326-Gen-3-Coyt-C132-ambient-Air-temp-sensor-plug-goes-where-on-the-engine&p=462985&viewfull=1#post462985). The MAF leg is hanging loose until I install the air intake components.

I ran the DS O2 sensor across the front of the motor as seen below. The other harness legs start at the PCM, follow rearward under the PS fuel rail, wrap around the rear and follow under the DS fuel rail. Also routed and combined into one loom under the DS fuel rail are the main +12V 8 AWG to the alternator, tach wire to #6 coil, and oil and H2O sensor wiring. As others have observed it's a tight fit, but all of it will route and tuck away.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167643&d=1654367385

Put the cover on to ensure it still fit. As I've noted before, this is a Gen 1 cover modified to fit the Gen 3.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167644&d=1654367385

The DS gets pretty busy with the alternator connections, O2 sensor, oil pressure, and H2O temp. sensor harnesses. I secured the O2 with a cushion clamp to the 3/4" tube as shown here, and in similar fashion on the PS as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167645&d=1654367385

Next up was to finalize the starter connections. The legs I ran much earlier were a little long, so I cut off and re-terminated with my hydraulic crimp tool. I seem to like to put a dab of dielectric grease on the larger electrical connections, so did the same here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167642&d=1654367322

Since I hadn't put the radiator back in yet, I took advantage of the wide open access from the front and installed the power steering lines. These are the kit supplied lines. Given the numerous comments here on the forum about too much assist with the stock valve that comes with the KRC pump, I swapped it out (2.5 GPM) to the lower volume flow #4 valve (1.05 GPM). I bought it from Amazon for $33 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HD9U3MK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Probably easier and less messy to do before the system is fully charged with fluid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167651&d=1654368057

I think the power steering kit came with a Earl's 90 deg. -6AN (I don't recall buying it separately), so I put it to use on the return line (top port of KRC tank). Kept the hoses somewhat parallel with a couple Earls hose clamps (EAR-167207ERL) from Summit Racing. I drilled and tapped a 1/4"-20 hole and secured one of the clamps to keep the hoses well above the battery's positive post. Added ~20 oz of KRC power steering fluid (KRS-10032001; $13/qt from Summit). Inserted a 3/8"-16 socket head bolt (kit comes with lots of them) and a 5/16" hex drive to spin the pump clockwise while my lovely wife turned the steering wheel slowly lock-to-lock. No leaks detected so far.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167650&d=1654367983

Still having a blast!

Blitzboy54

06-06-2022, 10:39 AM

Very professional looking. Looks great

JB in NOVA

06-06-2022, 07:47 PM

That is a clean looking engine compartment! Nice job.

460.465USMC

06-07-2022, 02:43 PM

I recently decided to go with the Moroso coolant expansion tank. As Edwardb points out, this is the Ford design. Not saying the F5 setup doesn't work just fine, but I like the idea of leveraging the design by the army of engineers at Ford--also a primary reason I chose the Coyote. Skilled builders ahead of me warned there's a lot going on in making the brackets: I can 100% confirm that is an accurate statement. This was a big challenge for me, but I prevailed in the end. To see this "mod" executed by skilled Coyote builders, check out JohnK's (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Picking-up-the-chassis)&p=467567&viewfull=1#post467567) or Edwardb's 20th anniversary (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=220495&viewfull=1#post220495). Here's my humble approach:

First up was to make the upper bracket to match the lip on the Moroso tank with the 5/16" holes. I made a template using a cereal box, and used my jigsaw to cut it out of a piece of 0.090" aluminum left over from my dash. My metal brake won't bend metal this thick, so back to my DIY "metal brake" to bend the 6061 aluminum.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167829&d=1654629103

I installed 1/4"-20 rivnuts to mount the tank to this upper bracket. First time installing those. Now I know first hand why some builders use them. To make the "block" portion of the lower bracket setup, I cut a piece of 3/8" x 2" aluminum bar stock I had on hand. Fastening two of them together with JB Weld made them 3/4", just the right dimension to fit inside the U-shaped pocket on the bottom of the tank. Then drilled and tapped for 6/32" screws. Here are the brackets ready to install:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167830&d=1654629103

Seeing that my first attempt on the lower bracket setup wasn't going to work, I replaced it with a misc. steel bracket (~1/8" thick) I found in my bucket of odds and ends. The bonus is it's stronger than the 0.090" aluminum, and it gave me the additional length I needed in order for it to mount to the Breeze radiator shroud.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167831&d=1654629103

Finding the exact location for the lower brackets was a real bugger. With the tank secured by the 1/4"-20 rivnuts, I held the lower brackets in position with one hand, and then applied Gorilla tape with my other hand. The tape was strong enough to hold the bracket in position so I could drill the holes in the Breeze shroud. I installed 10-32 rivnuts in these holes, and secured with a couple 10-32 dome head SS screws.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167833&d=1654629103

JohnK sent me several very helpful photos (similar to the one below) showing the placement for his tank relative to the PS upper 3/4" tube. The tank needs to clear the fresh air intake, upper radiator hose, etc. Thanks, JohnK!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167834&d=1654629154

460.465USMC

06-07-2022, 02:47 PM

And, here it is in final position. I guess Moroso isn't as proud of this tank anymore, as no laser etched branding on the tank--though they did include a Moroso sticker in the box from Summit Racing. Not a concern for me, but thought it odd.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167835&d=1654629154

I tried to get the tank level, but missed the mark by this much.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167832&d=1654629103

I'm hoping first start is somewhere on the near horizon, so picked up this 1.5" rubber pipe cap (ID is 2") for $5 from Home Depot to keep the fumes down in the garage. Good idea from Fman. Should get me through first start and go-kart stage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167839&d=1654631231

Blitzboy54

06-07-2022, 03:11 PM

facultyofmusic

06-07-2022, 07:00 PM

460.465USMC

06-07-2022, 07:13 PM

FYI on the rubber cap. I did the same thing but the fuel fumes broke down the cap a little and started leaking a gooey oil down the shaft (and I would assume in the tank) on really hot days. Luckily I caught it early. If your garage is climate controlled probably doesn't matter. Mine is not. I ended up putting a piece of aluminum foil over the hole then the cap over that.

Maybe I just had a cheap rubber cap or something but wanted to pass that along.

Expansion tank looks incredible. You go out of your way to be humble on the forum but your work is exceptionally clean. Can't wait to see her done.

Wow! It didn't even cross my mind the vapor would cause that issue. Appreciate the tip!

Thanks for the kind words. There's so much quality and craftsmanship on the forum, my build feels like the C-squad basketball player watching the varsity team win the state championship. Thanks for keeping an eye on my build. I very much welcome your input.

+1 on the rubber cap. I did something similar and the thin rubber couldn't hold in the petroleum + ethanol.

Appreciate the X2 heads-up, Dan! For several reasons I was planning to wait until the very last minute to add fuel to the tank. Now I have one more reason!

John Ibele

06-08-2022, 04:38 PM

Super job fabbing the metal brackets, Chris. That looks sharp.

460.465USMC

06-08-2022, 08:21 PM

Look what the brown box truck delivered yesterday. I ordered these (Touring model with ceramic coating) from Gas-N in Dec., so it was ~six month turn around. Really glad they showed up when they did, or I was looking at a First Start with open headers!

Unfortunately, the box was dropped somewhere along the way, and the PS exhaust tip curled in a bit. It's not a big bend (top exhaust pipe in the picture), but I was disappointed to see them arrive with damage. Not at all Georgie's fault, as he packaged them quite well. There's only some much you can do to prepare against rough handling. I can't wait to hear what these sound like!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167883&d=1654735472

I had the day off, and local builder Jim graciously offered to help me bleed my Wilwood brakes, as well as the Forte hydraulic clutch. So, it was a brake and clutch bleeding party. I was prepared for my usual trial-and-error approach, but Jim has experience, and this really cool pressure bleeding setup:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167886&d=1654735789

Both procedures went really well. I'd been somewhat putting off the brake bleeding for a while, keeping plenty busy with other tasks. But now that I had the hydraulic clutch installed, no more procrastination. The amazing part is no leaks! This being my first brake line installation, I wasn't sure how much torque to apply to the fittings. Definitely didn't want to over-torque, but also didn't want the fittings to leak. Apparently, I found the right amount. The pedal is quite firm. I pushed down on it hard and held for a few minutes: no movement. I'll take it! Of course, we had to reward the firm pedal and no leaks with a Five Guys burger. :p

On advice from the forum, this is the flare nut wrench set I bought from Harbor Freight to tighten the hardline fittings.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167885&d=1654735746

It was a day of success, and I learned a lot from Jim. Here are a few things that stick out in my mind for bleeding my Wilwood brakes:

I couldn't get a socket or wrench to seat on the brass fitting seen in the picture below--look closely underneath the wrench and you'll see it. Well, that's because you're supposed to just open the small black nipple that threads into the brass fitting with a 1/4" wrench. Duh! Good thing Jim was here, or who knows how long I would have tried to get a socket or wrench on that brass fitting.
The rears calipers have two nipples on the top and two on the bottom. Per Wilwood instructions, ignore the bottom nipples/valves. Start with the outer valve first on the top, then move on to the inner.
The front six piston calipers have just one nipple on the top, and one on the bottom. Again, ignore the bottom.
Isopropyl alcohol (AKA rubbing alcohol) works well to clean up any spills.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167887&d=1654735789

I used Prestone DOT 4 synthetic fluid for the brakes and the hydraulic clutch. I bought two of these 32 oz containers. Maybe could have squeaked by with just one, but good to have plenty on-hand when in the middle of the process just in case.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167884&d=1654735698

My various coolant hoses for the Moroso setup also arrived yesterday, so I'll start tackling those connections when I return from the F5 open house. Hope to see some of you there.

Blitzboy54

06-10-2022, 09:31 AM

I used the exact same setup. I had to do each twice to get all the air out. I recommend jiggling the pedals a bit to get anything trapped in there. I had air build up in my front calipers and the clutch. Since my second bleed they have both remained very tight.

460.465USMC

06-10-2022, 04:45 PM

Jim had us go around the front and rear brakes 2-3 times each. A couple pedal presses along the way as well. Similar with the hydraulic clutch. That system works really nice. If I need to bleed in the future, I'm going to get something similar.

facultyofmusic

06-10-2022, 09:57 PM

Sorry to hear about the damaged side pipes man... especially after ceramic coating and all that. I'd be heartbroken.

With regards to bleeding, what you have there is really neat! I remember using my friend's power bleeder before and it was just a mess. Perhaps I did it wrong? This time I just had a friend pump the brakes over and over again :P

460.465USMC

06-11-2022, 07:08 PM

Today, I had the fantastic opportunity to attend the F5 open house. It's been a couple years or so since they've been able to host one due to COVID. This is my first time at F5. I'm killing time here in my hotel room this evening, so thought I'd go off topic for a minute and share a few pictures of today's events:

Lots of really well done F5 Roadsters in attendance. This view only shows ~50% of the Roadsters:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167991&d=1654990719

I was able to meet a few vendors while I was here, including Mark Reynolds (Breeze), Mike Forte, Mike Everson (Replica Parts), and Jeff Kleiner. While I was at it, I picked up a couple small items that can fit into my suitcase from Mark at Breeze. It was fun to buy in-person, and he gave me a nice tour of his MKIII, and his shop. Plus, it saved me a few shekels in shipping (for once!). I was also able to meet and chat with Edwardb and his wife for a bit. This is his incredibly well-built Coupe: it doesn't disappoint.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167990&d=1654990719

In case anyone's interested, this is the pre-runner truck F5 is developing. According to Dave S., any 2015-2020 F-150 will mate up to their chassis. Looks like this thing will be pretty incredible off-road!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167992&d=1654990719

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167993&d=1654990719

After the tour, car show, and awards 30-40 of us drove down to the Newport Car Museum, about a 45 minute drive from F5. Dave Smith lead the way in his F5 Coupe. Lots of current and historic performance cars, including a huge display of Shelby and/or Ford gems like the 427 SC Cobra, GT40, vintage/current GT500, etc.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167994&d=1654990719

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167995&d=1654990769

And this offering from the General...and, Orange to boot! Not sure how this picture got in here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167996&d=1654990769

It was a very enjoyable day all the way around. A nice tour of their new facility hosted by Dave S. And, lots of sunshine for the car show (I have the sunburn to prove it!).

460.465USMC

06-18-2022, 10:08 PM

After getting the Moroso tank installed, I continued working on the cooling system connections. I started with the lower rad hose. Last year, I bought the lower hose kit from Boig (BMS-104). After a few iterations of careful trimming on both ends, I got the needed clearance from the steering shaft. There is just a whisker of a gap between the mandrel bent pipe and the front sway arm. With the motor running and car in motion no doubt there will be some contact. So, I wrapped the sway arm with a piece of heater hose for a little cushion. I picked up the lower radiator hose bracket kit from Breeze (70785) while I was at the F5 open house. Tapped the 1/4"-20 holes, and secured the hose. It's a solid setup.

Here's the Boig lower hose with Breeze bracket kit trimmed and ready for install.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168302&d=1655598943

Here's what the routing looks like from underneath. You can see the short piece of heater hose in place to protect from metal-on-metal rubbing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168303&d=1655598943

The FR3Z-8C289-B lower Moroso tank hose that arrived from OEMPartsSource.com wasn't right. Not sure where the breakdown occurred. So, returned it and picked up a couple feet of 3/4" heater hose from my local auto parts store, and installed pinch clamps at both ends. The arc is gentle enough I think it will be a workable substitute--and cheaper.

Next up was the upper rad hose. Thanks to JohnK's very helpful documentation--see his post #207--I was tipped off to the great idea of making a second notch in the 5 o'clock position. This rotates the hose connection on the motor side counterclockwise, away from the power steering pump pulley/belt. Just for fun I reused the mesh hose wrap from the 2" hose in my Coyote fitment kit from F5. Trimmed the radiator side of the hose, slid on the Gates Powergrip hose clamps, and applied heat. Done.

After all was said and done I spent about $425 (not including tax) to put together the Moroso setup. This does not include the Boig lower radiator hose I mentioned above. The Boig hose is not related to or required for the Moroso, so I didn't include it in my total. Just a heads-up in case someone is interested in this option, and curious about its cost.

I connected the vacuum connections per Edwarb's Gen 3 Coupe set up--see post #488 of his Coupe build. This meant I needed to come up with a custom hose arrangement to tie together the two vacuum ports (ports F and I in his picture) with a 1/8" port splitting off to my Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator. As he educated me, this will avoid the PCM throwing CMCV related error codes.

Here's the hose setup I put together:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168305&d=1655599343

And, here it is installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168306&d=1655599343

At long last it was time to put in the antifreeze. I used the Napa Dex-Cool compatible coolant (made by Valvoline). This is the concentrate, which I mixed 50/50 with distilled water. I was able to add it directly to the Moroso tank fill opening, as it sits high enough for the liquid to drain into the system. It took about 14.75 quarts. The Moroso tank is about 3/4 full. I'll check it again after first start, as I'm expecting it to take 15+ quarts. Feels good to reach this milestone.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168304&d=1655598943

Next, it was on to installing the air intake components. These are the components I received from F5, as part of the "Coyote fitment kit". The installation instructions are confusing because one of the pictures shows the wrong MAF tube being installed. In the picture below, the tube between the air filter and the silicone elbow is not the correct one for the Gen 3 Coyote. Nor are the black plastic sleeves used. The tube below it is correct. Thanks again to Edwardb for helping me sort through this confusion.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168161&d=1655400539

And, here's everything in place. I have the Treadstone honeycomb air straightener on order. Hey, what's a few more bucks to gain (hopefully!) more reliable PCM air readings, right???? This engine bay is getting to be a pretty busy place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168308&d=1655599343

Ted G

06-18-2022, 11:09 PM

Looking great!!

460.465USMC

06-20-2022, 11:06 AM

How do you find out if your new radiator leaks? Simple: "Just add coolant", so sayeth Captain Obvious.

Two steps forward: one step back. Ugh! After filling the cooling system on Saturday, I've been spot checking for leaks. Sure enough, I found one. A very slow leak is coming from the area where the lower radiator hose connects to the radiator. There is a small recess just above the black arrow in the picture below which seems to be the source, or very close to the leak source. This connection is clamped with a Gates Powergrip clamp. Upon seeing the leak I added a worm drive clamp over the Gates clamp to confirm whether it was a failed (or poorly installed) Gates clamp. No change. Leak is still there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168366&d=1655740987

What to do? I can cut off the Powergrip clamps on the upper and lower radiator hose connections, and remove the rest of the connections and Moroso tank. Take the radiator to a radiator shop and have it leak tested, and potentially have the pin hole welded. That, of course, is a very viable option. However, given the location of the leak, I'm wondering if a dab of JB Weld might not be a viable solution as well?

Are there any concerns using JB Weld as a long-term solution in this case? I would put a layer of it within the red polygon area in the picture above.

Jim Frahm

06-20-2022, 12:06 PM

For piece of mind I’d go with option 1. JB Weld is an emergency fix IMHO.

edwardb

06-20-2022, 04:03 PM

Came with your kit from Factory Five, right? I'd be contacting them. Either to replace it or reimburse you to repair it. I also vote for welding as a permanent fix if it comes to that.

460.465USMC

06-20-2022, 04:28 PM

For piece of mind I’d go with option 1. JB Weld is an emergency fix IMHO.

Thanks, Jim. When I read your recommendation it made me think of the benefit of having it tested to ensure there are no additional leaks that haven't surfaced yet because (1) the system hasn't been pressurized, or (2) come up to operating temperature.

Came with your kit from Factory Five, right? I'd be contacting them. Either to replace it or reimburse you to repair it. I also vote for welding as a permanent fix if it comes to that.

Hi Paul. Yes, this is the original radiator that came with my F5 kit. I sent them an email this afternoon. I assume they'll vote for me to have it repaired locally, and then either reimburse or credit me (hopefully). Either option would be fine with me. Since I have X2 votes on getting it welded, it seems this is the best choice. As Jim mentioned, it will provide peace of mind knowing this leak (and any others!) are repaired, and pressure tested to prove it's now leak free. Thanks for your input.

facultyofmusic

06-20-2022, 05:18 PM

For ~$80 you can get a pretty comprehensive radiator pressure testing kit. It comes with a bunch of different caps and I actually used it to help me bleed my clutch. If the radiator shop / welding shop won't pressure testing it for you afterwards you can totally do it yourself. Still man, that sucks. F5 should absolutely reimburse you for this. Please keep us updated as to how the conversation goes.

NYMike

06-20-2022, 06:54 PM

460.465USMC

06-22-2022, 01:29 PM

Update: emails exchanged with Dan G. at F5, and they are going to ship out a replacement radiator today. Much appreciate the solid support on this one, F5!

Blitzboy54

06-23-2022, 10:10 AM

That sucks Chris. Unfortunately we had the exact same problem in the same spot with ours. We ended up having ours welded locally by a radiator shop and factory five credited us for the repair on our account. We used the credit to buy some floor mats. Must have been a quality problem with that vendor.

Yup, I tested mine before I installed it specifically because of Mike's experience.

Blitzboy54

06-23-2022, 10:11 AM

Update: emails exchanged with Dan G. at F5, and they are going to ship out a replacement radiator today. Much appreciate the solid support on this one, F5!

Big win my friend

460.465USMC

06-25-2022, 11:36 AM

Yup, I tested mine before I installed it specifically because of Mike's experience.

After reading about Mike's experience, I did a visual inspection of mine with a flashlight, and didn't see any holes. Granted, the hole in mine must be quite small, because the volume of coolant escaping is very little, measurable in droplets. I did put some JB Weld in that area a couple days ago, refilled with coolant, and no leaks so far. (Not to worry, Jim F., this is only to get me through until my replacement radiator arrives ;)).

Jesse, did you pressure test yours using a DIY kit like Dan (facultyofmusic) describes above?

460.465USMC

06-26-2022, 04:36 PM

It's been 1 year, 7 months, and 9 days since delivery. And, yesterday I got to hear my Gen 3 Coyote howl for the first time! More on that in a second.

I mentioned earlier I received my Gas-N side exhaust, so it was time to get them installed. Just temporarily to get me through go-kart phase. It's a lot of weight to put on the ball flange. So, I decided to support the rear portion of the pipe. I used some 5/16" bolts I had on hand, and some washers to clamp a piece of wire. This won't prevent side-to-side movement, but it definitely relieves some torque on the ball flange connection.

Side exhaust in place: a beautiful sight!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168649&d=1656275905

Temporary wire hanger connects between door hinge mount and exhaust mounting tab.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168648&d=1656275787

Final prep for first start
(1) To minimize the number of gotchas at First Start I primed the fuel lines (at least I tried to) ahead of time by injecting power with my Power Probe III at the output of the fuel relay in the RF fuse panel (i.e. bypassing PCM 12V fuel control). I removed the relay to isolate from the PCM fuel control wire (green). The fuel pump ran and brought up the pressure to about 25 PSI, but didn't seem to want to move past that. Not sure how much power the fuel pump requires (15 Amp fuse in RF fuse panel), so I wondered if it was caused by the voltage drop due to the long Power Probe cord. Anyway, that's about as high as I could get it with my Power Probe. It sat overnight and only dropped a couple PSI. Leak-free fuel lines were looking like a reality, which is a huge relief given what happened with my Supply side fuel line testing.

(2) I'm using the Digital Guard Dawg ignition, which has an input for the brake switch, i.e. it won't send the start signal until it detects closure of the brake switch. I had to temp adjust spacing so the switch would close when I pressed the brake pedal. (I haven't done any adjustment yet on the Wilwood pedals.)

From there it was on to a blissful, trouble-free First Start! Not exactly. If you look up anticlimactic in the dictionary, you'll see a picture of my first start celebration. I eventually prevailed, but suffice it to say it didn't start right up. It did, however, crank over right away. And, before I attempted to crank it over the fuel pump did not run with the ignition in the Run position. I was quite troubled about that, and was a little lost about what to do. The PCM was not outputting 12V at the fuel pump relay, not even for a second or two in the Run position. But, I decided to move forward anyway because I was fairly confident in my electrical connections. And, given some of the experiences I've read from other Gen 3 builders--it seems this is not an uncommon issue.

It took a lot cycles of engine cranking, about 2-3 seconds per attempt, before the engine started and ran for a whopping one second. Sputtered is a more accurate word. Then, it was many, many more cycles of sputtering for 1-5 seconds before it would shut down. Curiously, there were no MILs along the way, so the PCM wasn't complaining. My gut tells me it was fuel related. I thought maybe a piece of debris was lodged somewhere, preventing fuel flow. Was the fuel filter passing fuel? I honestly thought about giving up and regrouping the next day. Apparently, it must take a lot of engine cranking to pull the fuel into the fuel rail, and purge out the air? Anyway, as I said it was anything but a smooth first start. Once it finally started, it didn't take too long to settle into a somewhat decent idle. In subsequent starts, it has only improved and now starts immediately and is running smooth!

This is a video of what I experienced at first. It was cranking over fine. It would sort of start, but mostly sputter, or just crank over with no sputter. Video is 35 seconds:
https://youtube.com/shorts/MhIBSV4o1tw?feature=share

Now the motor is getting really close to running. This second video is probably unnecessary, but perhaps it might be helpful to another Gen 3 builder. Video is 25 seconds:
https://youtube.com/shorts/N6PU_sLkvv8?feature=share

And, successful "First Start"! Video is 16 seconds:
https://youtube.com/shorts/WYf8-0MNMIE?feature=share

About this time my wife came home and made this walk around video...I couldn't resist sneaking in a few revs just for good measure. Video is 27 seconds:

https://youtube.com/shorts/4RhZ8rchrgY?feature=share

And, finally, in honor of Ben, this is the video he would have taken and most excited to share. Video is 10 seconds:
https://youtube.com/shorts/-Fb_fD-5JNg?feature=share

Some observations about my experience:

Interestingly, the MIL was not lit throughout most of the stuttering/shut down nonsense. It eventually did light, throwing a P0100 (MAF) code. I cleared it, and it hasn't come back. Happy to report no MIL/fault codes at this time after running to full operating temp.
All gauges including the Tach are working. Phew! Interestingly, the oil PSI initially pegged at 100 and stayed there for a bit even though the motor was at idle (~7,500 RPM). I had some warning about this from various posts on the forum, but it was still a bit unsettling to see it at first. Once the motor came up to full operating temp, it settled down to about 25-30 PSI. I started it cold this morning, and back it went to 100 PSI, but then settled down as the oil warmed up. I added about 3 3/4 gallons of gas to bring the gauge to ~1/4 full.
As I mentioned above, I'm very happy to report the fuel lines are leak free so far. Power steering lines as well.
After FINALLY after getting it to run stable, I set fuel pressure to 65 PSI on the Aeromotive regulator. It was initially set to about 50 PSI out of the box. And, the fuel pump now kicks on for about one second or so when the ignition is in the Run position (before Starting).
As others have noted, the fan kicks on around 195 deg. But, the temp drops pretty quickly when the fan is running, so it doesn't run long. My garage temp was about 75 deg., so I expect more fan cycling in warmer ambient temps.
Checked heat on the interior side of the DS footbox. It was definitely warm to the touch, but not hot. (I'm using Thermo-Tec heat and sound insulation).

I better close this long-winded update...pretty sure I need to head out to the garage and hear that Coyote howl again!

Papa

06-26-2022, 05:02 PM

Congratulations, Chris! You did it!!!!

Dave

Fman

06-26-2022, 06:55 PM

Way to go Chris! Nice work, engine sounds great... enjoy the first start buzz...:cool:

Blitzboy54

06-26-2022, 07:05 PM

Sounds like victory!

Congratulations my friend.

edwardb

06-26-2022, 08:00 PM

Big milestone in the build. Congratulations!

facultyofmusic

06-27-2022, 02:35 AM

HELL YEAH DUDE I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS. Congrats!! I'm following very close right behind ya! Your wire-hanger idea is actually ingenious. I'll be borrowing that! :P

JohnK

06-27-2022, 09:05 AM

Wow - awesome! Congratulations Chris. I'm sure Ben is looking down on you with a huge grin.

Ted G

06-27-2022, 09:56 AM

Very COOL! Sounds amazing!!

John Ibele

06-27-2022, 11:54 AM

Fantastic, Chris, what a great milestone. Sounds great. Hopefully I'm not too far behind you.

460.465USMC

06-27-2022, 12:24 PM

Congratulations, Chris! You did it!!!!

Dave

Honestly, I can't believe it myself. Dave, thanks for your tips and support along the way!

Way to go Chris! Nice work, engine sounds great... enjoy the first start buzz...:cool:

Much appreciated, Travis! Yes, I'm glad mine won't have a sound system...the exhaust notes are all the music I need. :p

P.S. I'm going to put in the Wilwood remote bias adjuster. Thanks to your build in first showing me this recommended add-on!

Sounds like victory!

Congratulations my friend.

Thanks, Jesse! Yeah, this victory is sweet!

Big milestone in the build. Congratulations!

Thanks, Paul! I can't say enough about how much your build threads have helped me. Not to mention the questions you've answered via PM!

460.465USMC

06-27-2022, 12:34 PM

HELL YEAH DUDE I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS. Congrats!! I'm following very close right behind ya! Your wire-hanger idea is actually ingenious. I'll be borrowing that! :P

Thanks, Dan! I know you'll be right there with me in no time. Very much looking forward to seeing/hearing yours roar to life!

I saw one or two other builders do the wire hangar thing. Like so many ideas incorporated into my build, I copied it. :D

Wow - awesome! Congratulations Chris. I'm sure Ben is looking down on you with a huge grin.

It feels really good, John. You have been so helpful to me along the way, and I draw a lot of inspiration from your build. Thanks for sharing your tips and knowledge with me!

Very COOL! Sounds amazing!!

Thanks, Ted. It sounds pretty good on the video, but wait until you hear yours in person. No doubt you'll be there in MUCH less time than it took me. I'm following along. Keep up the quality work.

Fantastic, Chris, what a great milestone. Sounds great. Hopefully I'm not too far behind you.

Hi John. Great to hear from you. I hope you have a chance to get to your First Start soon!

NYMike

06-27-2022, 05:38 PM

I’m a little late to the party here, but congrats on the huge milestone getting the first start win Chris! It sounds awesome. The Gas N pipes are definitely worth it and yours look great.

JeffP

06-27-2022, 05:51 PM

Nice Job Chris, Congrats!!! I managed to get 477mi on mine with the stock tune and the last two trips I've started to notice some hesitate and a little more roughness. I'm guessing from running rich. Fortunately, My base tune from Lund showed up and got it loaded - just the initial one at this point but man did it smooth it out.

460.465USMC

06-27-2022, 05:56 PM

I’m a little late to the party here, but congrats on the huge milestone getting the first start win Chris! It sounds awesome. The Gas N pipes are definitely worth it and yours look great.

Thanks, Mike! It's been a journey, and feels really good to make it to this point.

Nice Job Chris, Congrats!!! I managed to get 477mi on mine with the stock tune and the last two trips I've started to notice some hesitate and a little more roughness. I'm guessing from running rich. Fortunately, My base tune from Lund showed up and got it loaded - just the initial one at this point but man did it smooth it out.

Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate you input on the Lund tune. I'm a ways off from that point, but they are high on my list given the many recommends. I want a tuner with a very solid rep. for obvious reasons. I look forward to your continued updates on the tune.

460.465USMC

06-29-2022, 03:47 PM

Quick update on the radiator leak: as promised F5 promptly shipped out a replacement radiator. Apparently, the box had a rough go of it during transit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168782&d=1656535228

Not going to take a chance this thing won't leak, so contacted F5 a couple days ago. They're going to send me a replacement for my replacement radiator. The rough handling isn't F5's fault. Hoping the next one arrives unscathed. Thanks again for the continued solid support, F5! I'll have a leak free radiator...some day.

P.S. After three full engine heat cycles, the JB Weld is doing a good job of patching the leak. ;)

JohnK

06-29-2022, 06:24 PM

Oof. That sucks Chris. Sorry to hear that, but glad that F5 is making it right. Hang in there.

facultyofmusic

06-30-2022, 08:32 PM

Oh come on man... So sorry to see this happen. Luckily there's always something else to work on right?

460.465USMC

07-01-2022, 10:49 AM

For sure, Dan! I have a pretty long list of things I need to/want to complete before first go-kart. And, in the meantime I still get to fire up the Coyote...just for fun. :D

460.465USMC

07-06-2022, 09:49 PM

I have a large list of To Dos before first go-kart. First up was Installing the trunk aluminum. To get proper overlap, I installed them in this order: upper trunk, lower trunk, lower sides, and lastly the upper sides I made.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169069&d=1657161631

The license plate wiring is routed through the rear PS corner of the upper trunk panel, near the roll bar diagonal mount. The wiring for the cubby lighting drops out of this harness (visible in picture below) and will route inside the Breeze cubby area to illuminate the storage area when the courtesy lights are on.

Here the corner brackets Mark supplies are visible in case anyone has not seen the Breeze cubby, .

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169064&d=1657159324

Once fastened in place, the lower trunk panel horizontal kick-out was wavy. Others have reported this issue as well. To fix it, I traced the kick-out and cut out a "splint" from the scrap .090" aluminum left over from my dash. I coated the bottom side with black paint, and fastened the splint.

Simple splint

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169062&d=1657159324

I went heavy on the rivets.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169061&d=1657159324

The splint and close rivet spacing took out 80%-90% of the waviness. Since I was in the area, I also installed the fuel strap block-off plate--visible in above picture.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169063&d=1657159324

I bet I have the same 3/4" bent tube issue JohnK reported. He added a shim to fix. I think the remaining 10%-20% waviness in mine could have been removed had I been more on the ball and installed that earlier. I don't think it will be all that visible, so I'm calling it good. Thanks to JohnK for documenting this fix! Lastly, I installed the covers for the fuel gauge and fuel pump. I made them removable by installing four 8-32 riv nuts.

I applied Thermo-Tec to the rest of the trunk aluminum to give the aluminum some "depth". I had been holding off as long as possible on sealing up the trunk in case I needed to get at the fuel or brake lines. Now that it's sealed up, I'm hoping I won't need to get back in there.

Next up was installation of the roll bars. It went okay, I guess. I cleaned up the pipe mounting surfaces by using abrasive open mesh cloth. I found it in the plumbing isle. (I think plumbers use it to clean up copper pipes before sweating joints). Then I applied some silicone lubricant. This made a huge difference in how the hoop and angle support pieces slid together.

After fitting both sides there was about 1/16"+ gap where the rear diagonal support meets the hoop. I assumed this was due to slight variations during the weld process. The F5 instructions have you drilling the lower mounts first, and finish with drilling the top hole on the diagonal. However, much later in the instructions, it shows the opposite sequence. I tried the latter on the PS, drilling the upper hole in the diagonal first, followed by the lower mount holes. Not sure if I didn't play around enough with the fitment, or if it was due to F5's welding variation, or the drilling sequence I followed. But the PS side ended up with a 1/16"+ gap. Bummer. I'm not happy about that (it shouts DIY gone wrong to me!). Hoping for a little redemption, I moved on to the DS, and this time reversed the drilling sequence. For whatever reason I was able to get the fitment right on the money--no gap.

Gap on PS rollbar

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169066&d=1657159505

No gap on DS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169067&d=1657159505

Instead of the Frankenstein bolt, I tapped the forward side of the diagonal for a 5/16"-24 screw, and secured it with a button head screw. (See picture above). I saw another builder do this, and liked it. I just need to coat the screw black, and it should pretty much disappear (unless you're looking for it). (I was sorely tempted to buy the boltless solution from 520 Speedworks, but decided that money was better spent on the Fastrax wheel alignment tool. I want to attempt my own alignment. Looks like a really cool [and challenging!] task. We'll see how that goes). Then I removed the rollbars, and used a telescoping magnet to pull the metal chips from the rollbar welded base mounts. I deburred all the holes while I had it apart. Put it all back together. Having the rollbars installed definitely changes the look of the chassis! I have everything together with temp. hardware until final install.

460.465USMC

07-06-2022, 09:50 PM

From there I moved on to the Breeze cubby. Followed Mark's instructions and it went together well. After the cubby wall was installed, I put on the bulb seal he supplies with his kit. This is the first piece of bulb seal I've installed. It feels kind of like I've reached another milestone. I made the cubby opening 5" X 17.5" as Mark shows in his instructions. This is a generous opening, and I think this area will be functional, especially since I didn't put in a glove box. To cut the radius ends I bought a circle cutter from Harbor Freight for about $5. Not sure it was even worth the $5. Definitely a one-time use tool! Despite its rebellion against cutting the 5" hole through the 0.040", I managed to win the battle. Before installing the edging vinyl, I cleaned up the edges with a deburring tool.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169065&d=1657159380

For a cleaner look, I try to install rivets so the collapsed side is not visible (where possible). I must have been on auto-pilot when installing the outer edge rivets of the cockpit wall. So, guess what? I got to do these two dozen rivets twice. Is it any wonder I build at a turtleeee pace? Regardless of two steps forward, one step back, the rear cockpit wall is done!

A few things checked off the go-kart list. Feels good.

NYMike

07-07-2022, 08:11 AM

zee

07-07-2022, 09:47 AM

From there I moved on to the Breeze cubby. Followed Mark's instructions and it went together well. After the cubby wall was installed, I put on the bulb seal he supplies with his kit. This is the first piece of bulb seal I've installed. It feels kind of like I've reached another milestone. I made the cubby opening 5" X 17.5" as Mark shows in his instructions. This is a generous opening, and I think this area will be functional, especially since I didn't put in a glove box. To cut the radius ends I bought a circle cutter from Harbor Freight for about $5. Not sure it was even worth the $5. Definitely a one-time use tool! Despite its rebellion against cutting the 5" hole through the 0.040", I managed to win the battle. Before installing the edge trip, I cleaned up the edges with a deburring tool.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169065&d=1657159380

For a cleaner look, I try to install rivets so the collapsed side is not visible (where possible). I must have been on auto-pilot when installing the outer edge rivets of the cockpit wall. So, guess what? I got to do these two dozen rivets twice. Is it any wonder I build at a turtleeee pace? Regardless of two steps forward, one step back, the rear cockpit wall is done!

A few things checked off the go-kart list. Feels good.

Really enjoying this build thread and have been bookmarking a lot :-).

question: does the breeze sheet go a specific distance from the cockpit or can it go right behind the rollbar?

460.465USMC

07-07-2022, 10:15 AM

Looking good Chris. We also had no problem with the diagonal tube on the drivers side and struggled like crazy with getting the one on the passengers side to slide all the way up. It was definitely an angle mismatch from welding somewhere that we were fighting.

Thanks, Mike! You make a good point. Maybe I could have completely closed the PS gap with a second set of hands.

460.465USMC

07-07-2022, 10:24 AM

Really enjoying this build thread and have been bookmarking a lot :-).

question: does the breeze sheet go a specific distance from the cockpit or can it go right behind the rollbar?

Thanks, Zee. Glad it's of some use to you. If nothing else, I can provide some cautions on what not to do. :p

On my installation the Breeze cubby "wall" sits back about 12" from the junction of the rear cockpit wall and the trunk floor. (His instructions estimate 11" back). So, it does provide a generous amount of cubby storage space. The tradeoff, of course, is less upper trunk space. The vertical angle pieces he provides allow for adjustment of the wall location forward/rearward, but you'd need to trim the wall in order to move it forward (i.e. toward the rollbar hoop mounts) past what you see in my picture. Also, the contact point with the body might be an issue if you change the wall position too much--someone else who's completed their build could comment on that aspect. Hope that helps.

zee

07-07-2022, 10:29 AM

Thanks, Zee. Glad it's of some use to you. If nothing else, I can provide some cautions on what not to do. :p

On my installation the Breeze cubby "wall" sits back about 12" from the junction of the rear cockpit wall and the trunk floor. (His instructions estimate 11" back). So, it does provide a generous amount of cubby storage space. The tradeoff, of course, is less upper trunk space. The vertical angle pieces he provides allow for adjustment of the wall location forward/rearward, but you'd need to trim the wall in order to move it forward (i.e. toward the rollbar hoop mounts) past what you see in my picture. Also, the contact point with the body might be an issue if you change the wall position too much--someone else who's completed their build could comment on that aspect. Hope that helps.

Thanks.

I am debating between the breeze cubby storage and this mod:

https://www.ffcars.com/attachments/imageuploadedbyautoguide1451930654-289510-jpg.229561/

I keep going back n forth on them :). The person who did the above mod did a lot more frame modification and welding than I think is necessary.

I ride a motorcycle so getting out to store / retrieve things from the trunk isn't a big deal. I see the value of the cubby storage (I am skipping the glovebox too), but I also like the originality mod.

Decisions, decisions.

NYMike

07-07-2022, 07:46 PM

Thanks, Mike! You make a good point. Maybe I could have completely closed the PS gap with a second set of hands.

Yeah…it was more like 4 hands, grease, a Dremel to trim the little stopper welds on the frame and open up the inside of the tube a little, a mallet, a pry bar, and blisters from twisting the tube back and forth. There is still a tiny bit of a gap…

460.465USMC

07-07-2022, 11:00 PM

Wow! That actually makes me feel a little better, Mike. That PS side is a bear!

orangecruz

07-08-2022, 09:57 AM

Ted G

07-08-2022, 10:11 AM

Looking great Chris!

460.465USMC

07-08-2022, 10:43 AM

Hey Chris

Wow what can i say super jealous of your build. over the last few days I've read start to finish around work commitments.
What a car and what attention to detail Well done sir

Sorry to hear about Ben also , condolences to you and the family.

Keep up the excellent work :cool:

Hi Orangecruz. That W.O.R.K. thing gets in the way of what's important, no? :p

Thanks for your generous encouragement. This has been quite an adventure so far, and a big challenge for me. I'm indebited to a number of the builders on this forum for so many great ideas, and help along the way. I don't know if you will be building a Roadster (or other F5 kit), but one of the cool aspects is you get to build it just how you want. No doubt you've already picked up on that. Keep us posted if you end up building one. In the meantime, there are a lot of great builds on this forum for you to check out.

I appreciate your kind words about Ben. He would have had an ear-to-ear grin listening to the Coyote rumble.

Looking great Chris!

Thanks, Ted! Isn't this a blast?

460.465USMC

07-16-2022, 09:00 PM

The first time I saw the Wilwood remote brake bias was on Fman's build. At the time it hadn't even crossed my mind (no surprise there!). But after some thought seems like a very functional improvement. Especially, since I'd eventually like to check out Autocross. Now's the time to do it while everything is easily accessible.

I made a bracket to mount the adjustment knob underneath the steering shaft, just to the right of the RF fuse panel. It's a great spot JohnK identified, so I did what any good junior-assistant builder would do, and copied him. I drilled out the holes in the 2" square bracket for the Wilwood knob for some socket head 6-32" screws I had on hand. Added anti-seize to lube the threaded balance bar to avoid binding and ensure smooth operation from the bias adjustment knob. Also added anti-seize to the threaded rods as they engage the pedal clevis. Question for the forum: if you have successfully applied anti-seize without getting it all over everything, even once in your lifetime, my hat's off to you!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169478&d=1658019379

I watched a Tilton video showing how to adjust a pedal box balance bar. Their balance bar setup in the video looks pretty much identical in function to Wilwood's. It demonstrated how moving the spherical bearing (that rides the threaded balance bar) toward a particular MC increases the braking force applied by that MC. Translated to my Wilwood setup, rotating the knob clockwise (looking at the knob face) will move the spherical bearing closer to the front brake MC. So, I chose that sticker. Like JohnK said, there's a 50/50 shot at getting it right. Wilwood supplies a second sticker in their kit showing the opposite direction, so either way I'm covered.

Here's the YouTube video: "How to Properly Adjust Your Balance Bar" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISLqGf0sMX0).

Wilwood remote bias installed. (I also replaced the 1/8" rivets securing the RF fuse panel with 10-32 riv nuts. The wisdom of the forum seems nearly unanimous about making the panel removable to ease the windshield installation).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169485&d=1658021010

Brake light switch adjustment: this switch also feeds a safety start lockout input to my Digital Guard Dawg ignition. For whatever reason I mounted the brake switch bracket on the forward side (1+ years ago). I think this is at least partially why I had to add washers to push the switch rearward to match my brake pedal position at rest. (Mounting the bracket on the forward side moves the switch forward about 1/8"-3/16"). The switch closes electrically at ~1/2" of travel. I figure this will give me enough margin to avoid false brake light activation, yet still activate with minimal pedal travel. Will need some real world testing to know for sure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169479&d=1658019379

Clutch pedal and pedal stop: I played around quite a bit trying to find the optimum position for the clutch switch, clutch pedal position at rest, and pedal travel distance to engage/disengage. I also thought a bit about whether I should install a pedal stop. I think I could probably get by without a pedal stop, but decided to install one anyway. If I don't end up using it, no biggie. Just unthread the 5/16"-18 bolt. Plus, it's got to be easier to install now.

Using JB Weld I fastened together two pieces of 2" wide x 1/4" thick aluminum stock I had laying around. Tapped for 10-32 screws to attach it to the forward wall of the FB. Then tapped for the stop bolt. The stop bolt is a GM hood stop bolt with removable rubber head. I'm pretty sure I bought it on Amazon after seeing someone (Fman?) use it. A pair was around $10 or so.

With the pedal position I chose, the clutch engages/releases when the pedal is 1 5/8"-2" from the FB wall. I trimmed the clutch stop bolt so that the pedal can travel a bit past the engage/disengage point. I set it up this way to give my foot some extra pedal travel when starting from a dead stop. I don't want the clutch to grab immediately off of the floor. We'll see how it feels once I'm actually driving it.

I also wanted a little bit of margin on the engagement of the clutch switch. Meaning when the clutch pedal is fully extended (toward the front of the FB) the switch button does not bottom out. Bottoming out puts undo pressure on the switch.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169481&d=1658019379

I adjusted my clutch pedal to sit just about one inch above my brake pedal. The brake pedal sits a little above the gas pedal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169480&d=1658019379

Here's a 24 second video of my clutch fork travel: Forte slave cylinder and bracket setup (https://youtube.com/shorts/V3LjrKJNRoU?feature=share).

Here's a view of the pedals/pedal stop:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169482&d=1658019379

All in all I spent some quality time with the Wilwood pedal box, learned a ton about the balance bar, pedal placement, and the interaction between it all. Hopefully, I'm in the ballpark when I go-kart.

Chopper

07-18-2022, 09:52 AM

Awesome work, very clean.

Could I trouble you to ask what the connection for the bias adjuster to the balance bar looks like from the top? Are you using a 90 degree adapter?

-Brandon

460.465USMC

07-18-2022, 12:55 PM

Chopper

07-18-2022, 01:46 PM

Chris, thanks. I really like the mounting location of the knob for a cleaner dash.

-Brandon

facultyofmusic

07-18-2022, 01:51 PM

Thanks for the pictures Chris! I'll need to do my bias balance bar soon too!

460.465USMC

07-18-2022, 02:07 PM

Chris, thanks. I really like the mounting location of the knob for a cleaner dash.

-Brandon

Agreed! The location JohnK found is like it was made for it. Easy to reach yet out of sight.

Blitzboy54

07-22-2022, 09:50 AM

I did the same thing to my clutch pedal. I found for me it functions better closer, plus keeps me from double tapping it when braking.

460.465USMC

07-24-2022, 10:54 PM

I continue to chip away at the items I want to get done before first go-kart. This week I checked off a few.

Treadstone Perf - Honeycomb Air Straightener: I ordered the 4" version and secured in place with JB Weld. It sits about 1/2" from the air filter side of the 4" Spectre tube, and ~2.5"-3" from the MAF sensor. No trimming required. The fit could have been a little tighter, but I guess it doesn't matter since it's locked in place now. Wanted it in place before I get a custom tune someday.

Here it is installed as viewed from the rear, i.e. air will flow toward you.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169977&d=1658717383

Steering shaft finalized: When I originally installed the steering shaft (~1.5 years ago) I didn't realize it was adjustable, and the mid- and upper-shaft pieces are supposed to slide together by hand. Or, with only light taps from a mallet. I'm using the Russ Thompson turn signal setup. Had ~ 1 inch gap between the polished hub and the switch collar. Not good. So, I removed the shaft and disassembled it.

As I alluded to above, my upper steering "D" shaft didn't slide very easily into the mid-shaft. Thankfully, I was able to separate with just a bit of persuasion. I slid a piece of rebar into the bottom of the mid-shaft, and separated them with a few knocks from a hammer. I've read a number of threads where builders report these don't slide together as issued by F5. Mine was in that camp.

So, I put some elbow grease into it using a piece of abrasive open mesh cloth. The idea was to remove any burs or rough spots on the upper shaft. Unfortunately, I didn't have a good way to polish the inside of the mid-shaft. So, reached in there as far as I could with the mesh cloth using my finger. I also used my Dremel to remove any burs from the edge of the mid-shaft where the upper shaft slides in. Then I added a thin layer of bearing grease. This really helped them slide together more easily.

At this point I was now able to slide the upper shaft in this far by hand (without the Belleville washers). This picture shows the mid-shaft halfway over the second recessed circle--almost there! There's no special significance to the tape measure. Other than when the steering shaft fitment was finalized, the mid-shaft slid about 1.25 inches further over the recessed circle shown here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169980&d=1658717854

Next, I slid the shafts apart, put in the washers, and slid back together. With a few light taps from a rubber mallet was able to pretty easily get the upper shaft slid in to achieve the recommended 1/16" gap between the RT turn signal switch and polished hub. Also added a thin layer of grease to the end of the upper shaft where the steering wheel slides on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169981&d=1658717854

This is where the upper shaft bottoms out in the polished hub. Difficult to tell from the photo, but it's about 1/8" from being flush. To get it all the way flush I would somehow need to extend the flat spots on either side of the shaft. That's beyond my ability, and I don't see any gain in doing it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169982&d=1658717854

From there I figured it was time to "lock" down the upper and lower shafts. So, added a small amount of blue Loctite to the two set screws on the upper shaft, and ditto to the two that secure the mid-shaft where it exits the FB. To access those I had to remove my gas pedal assembly. Difficult to reach in there. I wonder how many hours I spend on those types of tasks. It's not an insignificant sum.

One item percolating in the back of my mind was how I would keep the filler tube vertical during go-kart stage. With the bit of oil I put on the gasket it wants to flop down horizontal, or even lower. Here's my solution: I found a 1" x 4" plastic nipple I had on-hand in my sprinkler parts stash. It matches the 1" threaded hole in the top lid of my homemade fuel vapor canister. Then cut appropriate sized holes for the 1" nipple and the ~2" filler tube in a piece of scrap 1" x 3" wood.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169978&d=1658717528

Added a "set screw" to the end to keep it all solid for go-kart. I filed the end of the set screw flat to avoid puncturing/denting the filler tube.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169979&d=1658717583

Once in a while it's nice to implement a solution that doesn't involve my wallet. :cool:

Next up is alignment and pinion angle. My brain already hurts from studying these two topics. Uff-da!

Blitzboy54

07-25-2022, 09:31 AM

That's clever, I like it!

toadster

07-25-2022, 09:47 AM

460.465USMC

07-25-2022, 10:42 AM

John Ibele

07-25-2022, 11:59 AM

Next up is alignment and pinion angle. My brain already hurts from studying these two topics. Uff-da!

Both these items were a reminder for me that the brain pain lessens immediately once you actually pick up a tool and get to it. We've all been there before.

Well, wait. With the driveshaft alignment there was one more step. I had to waste time trying to use the Tremec app on my phone, which only resulted in many phone drops. When I picked up the Klein magnetic angle gauge I started to make real progress. Once you practice a few times just to make sure you get repeatable numbers, you realize you know what you need to do next.

Thanks for the update, Chris - btw, I like the fixture ingenuity (and the price point)!

toadster

07-25-2022, 02:44 PM

Hi Todd. Yes, that's the piece I ordered (4" size). The shipping and handling was as much or more than the straightener. Ugh.

I was considering using silicone, as the straightener is very light. But ultimately decided to go with JB Weld. I coated a 3/4" ring of JB Weld inside the Spectre tube, about 1/2" in from the air inward side. Then slid the straightener into the JB Weld ring. It didn't wedge in place because it was slightly too small, but the JB Weld held it in place well enough until it hardened.

Thanks Chris! I found a similar product from Performance MRP - it's a 4" honeycomb as well, but only $5 to ship :)

S-400D 4" Diameter Aluminum Honeycomb Air Straightener Screen (https://performancemrp.com/i-30497566-4-diameter-aluminium-honeycomb-air-straightener-screen.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fperformancemr p.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3Dhoneycomb)

460.465USMC

07-25-2022, 11:31 PM

Both these items were a reminder for me that the brain pain lessens immediately once you actually pick up a tool and get to it. We've all been there before.

Well, wait. With the driveshaft alignment there was one more step. I had to waste time trying to use the Tremec app on my phone, which only resulted in many phone drops. When I picked up the Klein magnetic angle gauge I started to make real progress. Once you practice a few times just to make sure you get repeatable numbers, you realize you know what you need to do next.

So true, John! I've experienced that on many parts of my build. Honestly, even to some degree on the steering shaft process I just described. I should only ponder so long before JUST GETTIN' AFTER IT!

Appreciate you keeping an eye on my build. I continue to welcome your input.

460.465USMC

08-14-2022, 12:18 PM

Caution: what you are about to read is dull. Boring. It contains material known to cause drowsiness. Advisement: proceed only if you've had a good night's sleep, and armed with a steaming cup of coffee.

I completed the four wheel alignment. This is the initial pass. I will go through it again when the body and the rest of the weight are on the chassis. It was a tedious process, and I spent many hours on it. It's one of those tasks where there isn't much to show for your labor. Overall, though it took some patience, it was enjoyable and I'm glad I went for it.

Up front I want to thank the forum all of the helpful alignment threads. So many good tips and tricks. A special thanks to Edwardb who patiently answered a few PMs from me, as I asked (and re-asked!) where to begin, and how to tackle it. Full disclosure: I was intimidated to tackle this one.

Here's my approach:

Set the ride height (Roadster on my four-post lift):

Adjust front tires to 22 PSI
Adjust rear tires to 24 PSI
The rear took just one turn to reach 5"
The front required four turns to reach 4.5"

Wisdom of the forum says the suspension will continue to settle, so I purposely set both 1/2" high. It was all I could do using a pair of soft nose channel locks to get the four turns on the front. After the fact, I ordered a spanner wrench from Jegs, but the UCA arms interfere. I will return it. Looking for a good recommendation on a spanner wrench that fits our Roadster application.

Next up was the Rear IRS alignment:
To prevent the rear wheels from binding, I put down a thin, flexible cutting board my wife had tossed. Then added two kitchen garbage bags un top. The powder coating on the lift runways is infused with sand for traction. The cutting board gripped the runways, and the bags provided the slippery surface needed to allow the wheels to move easily.

I didn't have a wrench large enough to fit the 1 5/8" UCA jam nuts, so off to HF to pick up a 15" adjustable wrench.

Here I'm getting the rear track parallel with toe plates/laser level. Look closely and you can see the laser line/dot on the board behind the front wheels

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171083&d=1660495915

IRS Camber/Toe-in

Set wheel track parallel to the chassis. Bought a magnetic laser level and stuck it to the Heidt's toe plates. Used a piece of scrap MDF trim behind the front wheel as the laser target. Cut two of these to the same length. The inner side is pushed flat against the 4" chassis tube. Then adjusted toe until they hit the board at the same point on both sides.
Adjusted toe-in/track together while adjusting the camber the appropriate amount each time to keep it near spec.
Final measurements: was able to meet F5's spec. for camber at -0.75*, and 1/8" total toe-in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171084&d=1660495915

The F5 manual was very helpful. It tells how much camber changes (positive or negative) for each turn of the toe link, and vice versa. After getting them adjusted to spec. I tightened the toe and camber nuts. Will come back after final alignment and apply Loctite on the UCA jam nut threads per F5 instructions

Front IFS alignment: as my starting point, I set the UCA dimensions per F5 instructions. Note: because I've read so many builders having trouble dialing in the caster with stock length UCA sleeves/threaded rods, I had mine trimmed some time ago.

Caster
I purchased the SPC Fastrax Camber/Caster gauge. Instructions call for rotating wheel 15* outward, then 15 deg. inward. To give me a target for the 15 deg. outward and inward, I used a scrap piece of 2"x8". I cut one side flush. On the other end I angle cut from center to the edge at 15* with my miter saw. With the flush cut side against the tire (with track parallel), I used this "jig" to put down duct tape at 15* outward and inward angles.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171085&d=1660495915

When turning the sleeves I found it easy to lose track of the turns. To help with this, I wrapped each of the sleeves with blue painter's tape and numbered each face. The tape also helps prevent nicks and scratches from my wrench when turning the sleeves.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171087&d=1660495966

IFS alignment steps

Set track parallel. Again, used Heidt's toe plates and laser level.
Set toe-in to 1/16" total toe.
PS Camber adjust to -0.5. [Final: -0.6]
PS Caster adjust to +7.0. [Final: +7.25]
DS Camber adj to -0.5 [Final: -0.4]
DS Caster adjust to +7.0 [Final: +6.75]
Move steering wheel to bring track back to parallel.
Adjust total toe-in to 1/16" [Final: 3/16"]
Repeat X6.

Yep. Six times through the steps above. After the final round, I rolled the chassis back and forth a couple feet on the lift. The alignment didn't move. Good.

Measuring/adjusting caster with Fastrax gauge. The paint stir sticks strapped to the wheel aid in eyeballing when the wheel is 15 deg. outward and 15* inward. Here you can see the DS wheel turned 15* outward.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171086&d=1660495966

In the interest of finishing this Roadster before my kids have grandkids, I'm calling it close enough for go-kart. Will revisit in the future once the body is on for good. I will say this is not a good strategy for saving cash v. paying for a professional alignment. However, the payoff for me is in the learning. And as a potential bonus, if I Autocross and want to adjust anything, I'll be able to dial in the numbers I want.

Now, about that first go-kart.

John Ibele

08-15-2022, 10:11 AM

In the interest of finishing this Roadster before my kids have grandkids, I'm calling it close enough for go-kart.

Chris, I'm doing my best to get on that same plan.

What you detailed was far from boring for anyone who hasn't done alignment before, and has it in their near future. I've read plenty of writeups of this process; yours is clear, easy to understand and accessible, and just what I need. I'll be referring to it when I go through the same process, hopefully in not too many weeks. Thanks a bunch and nice work.

Jim Frahm

08-15-2022, 06:18 PM

Nice job on the alignment!

Let me know when you’re ready for the first test drive and I’ll come over and watch.

Jim

460.465USMC

08-15-2022, 08:32 PM

Chris, I'm doing my best to get on that same plan.

What you detailed was far from boring for anyone who hasn't done alignment before, and has it in their near future. I've read plenty of writeups of this process; yours is clear, easy to understand and accessible, and just what I need. I'll be referring to it when I go through the same process, hopefully in not too many weeks. Thanks a bunch and nice work.

Appreciate the encouragement, John! I'm really enjoying the build process. So much to learn--even if I occasionally need to bang my head against the wall to jump start my two remaining brain cells.

I look forward to reading about your alignment process. I know there are many approaches to this task, so looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Nice job on the alignment!

Let me know when you’re ready for the first test drive and I’ll come over and watch.

Jim

Thanks, Jim!

About the first go-kart...um, sorry, man! I went for it! I hope that doesn't stop you from coming over anyway for a cup of coffee one morning in the near future. I'll give you an in-person demo. 'Cause, you know I'm looking for excuses to make sure I wasn't dreaming about it.

460.465USMC

08-15-2022, 09:07 PM

Yep! First go-kart in the books!

To heck with going through the pinion angle process before first go-kart. After my lengthy four wheel alignment tour, I checked with one of my go-to builders, and agreed with his opinion my pinion angle should be fine for first go-kart with my Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup.

I made a final check of all fasteners, fluids, and an overall lookover of my Roadster. I've ran it to operating temp. at least four times and no leaks. So, figured it was time to go for it.

My better half shot the video (thanks, Honey!) with my phone. It was pretty long, so I broke it into three short segments, and trimmed out some fluff.

* First go-kart Part 1 (50 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/RE98PsGE-nc?feature=share (It was slow going down my gravel driveway--tires really grabbed the rocks).
* First go-kart Part 2 (24 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/UqRFD-lr8j0?feature=share
* First go-kart Part 3 (29 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/yFmsy8y7YhM?feature=share
* Second pass--modest acceleration (28 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/cwA8D5BZX-I?feature=share

The day (yesterday) couldn't have been nicer. Unexpectedly, our sons, daughter, sister and her daughter were over for dinner. So, I had a "crowd" cheering me on. Have to admit I was a bit nervous after having it stationary in my garage for 22 months. But all went well. It was a bright point in an extremely difficult 12 months for my family and me. We weren't whole without Ben there. But I know he would have been cheering me on, and first in line to get a ride.

I guess this look on my face says it all. Thankful to have this opportunity.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171166&d=1660614671

This happens to be my first ride in a Factory Five. And, simultaneously, my first time driving one. So, I didn't really know what to expect. Wow, it is low to the ground! Steering is responsive. It tracked well. My top speed was around 35 MPH, and I proudly clocked a whopping 3+ miles on my odometer.

I made a couple basic brackets out of a piece of 3/16"x3" aluminum I had on-hand so I could temp. mount the tail lights. My front LED turn signal lights are installed and working as well. I guess a little extra visibility doesn't hurt during go-kart--once I remembered I turned them on! As you can see, the dry grass around my go-kart "track" is a tinderbox, so made use of my RT drop trunk by cradling a fire extinguisher between a couple rolled up towels. Just in case.

I'm guessing braking performance is lacking at least in some part (most?) since the pads haven't been bedded? I welcome any input on how this may change once I complete the Wilwood recommended bedding procedure. The pedal still feels pretty firm.

So far no leaks. Good. Will need to vacuum out the small pebbles. Then I think it's back to tackling pinion angle.

A big Thank You to everyone on the forum who's helped me get this far!

Papa

08-15-2022, 09:13 PM

Yep! First go-kart in the books!

To heck with going through the pinion angle process before first go-kart. After my lengthy four wheel alignment tour, I checked with one of my go-to builders, and agreed with his opinion my pinion angle should be fine for first go-kart with my Coyote/TKO600/IRS setup.

I made a final check of all fasteners, fluids, and an overall lookover of my Roadster. I've ran it to operating temp. at least four times and no leaks. So, figured it was time to go for it.

My better half shot the video (thanks, Honey!) with my phone. It was pretty long, so I broke it into three short segments, and trimmed out some fluff.

* First go-kart Part 1 (50 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/RE98PsGE-nc?feature=share (It was slow going down my gravel driveway--tires really grabbed the rocks).
* First go-kart Part 2 (24 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/UqRFD-lr8j0?feature=share
* First go-kart Part 3 (29 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/yFmsy8y7YhM?feature=share
* Second pass--modest acceleration (28 sec): https://youtube.com/shorts/cwA8D5BZX-I?feature=share

The day (yesterday) couldn't have been nicer. Unexpectedly, our sons, daughter, sister and her daughter were over for dinner. So, I had a "crowd" cheering me on. Have to admit I was a bit nervous after having it stationary in my garage for 22 months. But all went well. It was a bright point in an extremely difficult 12 months for my family and me. We weren't whole without Ben there. But I know he would have been cheering me on, and first in line to get a ride.

I guess this look on my face says it all. Thankful to have this opportunity.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171166&d=1660614671

This happens to be my first ride in a Factory Five. And, simultaneously, my first time driving one. So, I didn't really know what to expect. Wow, is it low to the ground! Steering is responsive. It tracked well. My top speed was around 35 MPH, and I proudly clocked a whopping 3+ miles on my odometer.

I made a couple basic brackets out of a piece of 3/16"x3" aluminum I had on-hand so I could temp. mount the tail lights. My front LED turn signal lights are installed and working as well. I guess a little extra visibility doesn't hurt during go-kart--once I remembered I turned them on! As you can see, the dry grass around my go-kart "track" is a tinderbox, so made use of my RT drop trunk by cradling a fire extinguisher between a couple rolled up towels. Just in case.

I'm guessing braking performance is lacking at least in some part (most?) since the pads haven't been bedded? I welcome any input on how this may change once I complete the Wilwood recommended bedding procedure. The pedal still feels pretty firm.

So far no leaks. Good. Will need to vacuum out the small pebbles. Then I think it's back to tackling pinion angle.

A big Thank You to everyone on the forum who's helped me get this far!

Chris,

The smile is priceless! Congratulations on a very nicely done build. You're almost to the finish line now and I can't wait to see it done and on the road.

Dave

Blitzboy54

08-15-2022, 09:53 PM

Way to go Chris!!! Sounds fantastic!

Like you my car was the first cobra I really drove. I found the brakes lacking as well. I have the same setup as you, my experience in three parts.

1. I needed to bleed my brakes a couple times. The power bleeder just doesn’t get everything until you exercise the system. The pedal should be close to rock hard.

2. I needed to bias them to the front quite a bit to get the grab I was expecting.

3. The brakes improved quite a bit after getting hot and bedding them in.

I can get the car to stop on a dime now but it is still a hard pedal. It will never feel like boosted brakes. I’ve come to appreciate them and they have a great feel but a panic stop takes more effort than I was used to.

JohnK

08-15-2022, 10:12 PM

So happy for you Chris! What a great accomplishment, and a huge milestone in the build process. Congratulations.

Fman

08-15-2022, 10:15 PM

Car sounds great and it only gets better from here. Congratulations!!! :cool:

Mind as well take it to Cars and Coffee this weekend that would be a very cool way to pull in!

Jim Frahm

08-16-2022, 02:06 PM

Fantastic! :cool:

I’m still waiting on my ECU to be repaired or replaced and shipped back to me. In the mean time, I’m working on the water hoses/cooling system. On the upside, my rear springs should be here this week and that means all my POL and MIK items have arrived. I’m still waiting on wheels (my fault for ordering late) and side pipes (at the ceramic coating shop). I ordered the same side pipes as you.

I’ll plan a trip in the near future, maybe this weekend.

460.465USMC

08-16-2022, 03:17 PM

460.465USMC

08-16-2022, 03:22 PM

So happy for you Chris! What a great accomplishment, and a huge milestone in the build process. Congratulations.

Thanks, John! What a blast! Any word on the paint/body progress on yours?

Car sounds great and it only gets better from here. Congratulations!!! :cool:

Mind as well take it to Cars and Coffee this weekend that would be a very cool way to pull in!

Thanks, Travis! Hard to believe it gets better since I'm enjoying it so much already.

Fantastic! :cool:

I’m still waiting on my ECU to be repaired or replaced and shipped back to me. In the mean time, I’m working on the water hoses/cooling system. On the upside, my rear springs should be here this week and that means all my POL and MIK items have arrived. I’m still waiting on wheels (my fault for ordering late) and side pipes (at the ceramic coating shop). I ordered the same side pipes as you.

I’ll plan a trip in the near future, maybe this weekend.

Hi Jim. Glad to hear you're almost there on POL. Phew! So far I really like the sound of these Gas N pipes.

facultyofmusic

08-16-2022, 03:41 PM

Tim B

08-16-2022, 04:49 PM

460.465USMC

08-16-2022, 04:50 PM

Chris that is amazing! It sounds beautiful doesn't it? Hope you're able to rest up and enjoy time with the family. It's a big milestone you've crossed, have a few beers!

What's the next big milestone now that you've achieved go-kart? Body on? Paint? Registration? DRIVING TO CAR SHOWS IN YOUR COBRA? :p

Thanks, Dan! I'm still pretty giddy about the whole thing.

Good question about what's next. Honestly, I've been so focused on first start/go-kart that I don't have a solid plan. A few things on my immediate radar include pinion angle (any chance it will be good as is? :p). Mock up the FFMetal transmission tunnel cover (with cupholders) and then get it powder coated to match the dash. Coat the underside of the body with bedliner. After that I'll need to review the F5 manual to hatch my long-term plan.

Thanks for checking in!

460.465USMC

08-16-2022, 04:57 PM

Chris,

It has been really fun to follow your thread, and the journey you have been on with this build. On your first post you described yourself as a "novice" in regards to building a car. You have come a very long way from being a novice and should be very proud of your build. Congratulations on your progress!

Thanks for the kind words, Tim. I have learned so much along the way. The guys on this forum are quite generous in sharing their knowledge. I'm working in the shadows of some real craftsman on this forum. For me, school is in session every time I go out to my garage. If you are considering building one, you'll be in good hands on this forum. In the meantime, lots of great builds to follow along.

460.465USMC

08-24-2022, 08:34 PM

The next key item I wanted to complete is to verify the pinion angle, and adjust if needed. In preparation, I read some good threads. My head hurt for a while. But, the content eventually made sense. Here are a couple that really helped:

Driveline Setup (aka, Pinion Angle) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22594-Driveline-Setup-(aka-Pinion-Angle)&p=257196&viewfull=1#post257196) Write-up from Karlos
Pinion Angle (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40629-Pinion-angle-I-think-I-ve-got-it-but-please-check-me&p=466023&viewfull=1#post466023) Started by JohnK and has lots of good info. and considerations offered from guys with real-world experience.

I used a digital angle finder to measure the transmission output shaft angle, driveshaft angle, and pinion angle of the IRS. Before installing the transmission, I installed three 1/4" aluminum spacers that I bought from Forte in his TKO spacer kit (https://fortesparts.com/product/tremec-tko-transmission-spacer-kit/). This raised my transmission 3/4", and from what I had read seemed to be a good starting point. It turned out to be a great starting point:

OA-1 = -1.2*. Operating angle between transmission output shaft and driveshaft.
OA-2 = -0.7*. Operating angle between driveshaft and pinion gear.
PA = 0.5*. Pinion angle.

As I understand the rules and goals for pinion angle, I believe I'm good-to-go:

OA-1 and OA-2 should be within 1* of each other. Check.
OA-1 and OA-2 should be <3*. Check.
PA should be less than 1*. Check.
Slope is measured front to rear, so it is sloping down if lower in the rear.
Add the OAs if the slopes are in opposite direction. Subtract the smaller from the larger if slopes are in the same direction. Mine were in the same (neg.) direction, so I subtracted OA-2 from OA-1.

Knowing I very well may have a blind spot in my approach, I welcome any input. If there are no comments, then I'm going to install the lock nuts on the trans A-frame mount bolts and move on to next items.

In the meantime, another go-kart in the books...my odometer now reads 6+ miles. More smiles. Though I'm limiting max speed to around 30-35 MPH (fast enough for go-kart IMHO), no vibration detected so far from the driveshaft. The ultimate proof that my pinion angle is good, at least from a vibration perspective, will have to wait until it's licensed and on the road for at-speed testing.

460.465USMC

09-10-2022, 05:42 PM

Over the last couple weeks I've been chipping away on next steps: transmission tunnel cover and carpet install.

Transmission Tunnel Cover
As I previously showed, I rotated the shifter position on my TKO600 180 degrees forward. Consequently, the hole in the kit supplied trans cover is not centered over the shifter. Instead of trying to patch on a cover and cut a new hole I ordered the FFMetal trans cover. Their cover is thicker (0.060") and a little wider to accommodate the insulation on the sides of the tunnel and carpet. This was a much better option for me, since it will be powder coated to match my dash. Powder coat doesn't hide surface imperfections very well.

I made a template out of cardboard before I started any drilling/cutting. Thanks for the template reminder, JohnK! Cut out the shifter hole and two more for stainless cupholders. With the template in place, I verified ample clearance between the bottom of the cupholders and the driveshaft. All good.

Cardboard template

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172284&d=1662847103

Then it was on to cutting the holes for real in the FFMetal cover. I picked up a better quality circle cutter (General Tools) than the one I had previously bought from HF. What a difference! It cut precise holes. I also drilled the 1/4" holes for the shifter trim ring. Then off to the professional powder coater--too big to fit in my little toaster oven.

FFMetal trans cover ready to powder coat

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172285&d=1662847103

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172286&d=1662847103

Carpet installation starts

I finished laying down ThermoTec on all of the trunk surfaces. Put aluminum foil tape over the seams to smooth the transiitions for the carpet.

I decided to go with carpet glue (Roberts 6700) instead of the 3M Super 77 because I like the idea of a little time to position the carpet v. near instant grab of the spray. So, I picked up one gallon from HD. I also picked up a couple trowels from Ace.

Figured starting in the trunk was a safer place to work out any major mistakes (hopefully!). After putting in the first couple of trunk pieces I settled on the 1/8" V-groove. The 1/8" square notch groove puts down too much glue, making areas squishy and takes too long before it grips. Especially for vertical pieces.

Picked up this trowel from Ace (<$5)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172282&d=1662846768

Also picked up this small (4") trowel from Ace ($3). It's great for tighter spots.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172283&d=1662846768

The trunk carpet piece is large, making it difficult to handle and put down without getting glue on the finished side. So, I cut it down into three pieces: (1) area in front of the Breeze cubby, (2) behind the cubby and first drop down, and (3) final horizontal section of trunk over the RT drop trunk and final step down and kick out. If I were to do it over again, I would break up piece number (3) as well. Just too risky to get glue on the finished side.

What to do with the fuel pump and fuel sender covers? Decided to carpet over. The four button head #8 screws are visible, but that's okay. I like the look of some exposed stainless hardware anyway (hence my powder coated dash and transmission tunnel cover).

Fuel pump cover

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172288&d=1662847103

I guess the trade off of using glue is in certain transitions I've had to rig up ways to apply constant pressure to the carpet until the glue cures. For example, the transition just below the Breeze cubby opening doesn't have much surface area above the bend for the carpet to bond. In transitions like this the carpet wants to keep straight. The glue takes some time to grip to the point it won't release.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172287&d=1662847103

P.S. odometer now reads 10 miles. Still smiling!

460.465USMC

09-10-2022, 05:57 PM

Unknowingly, I installed the Thermo-tec very close to the Breeze cubby opening. Leaving it like this would have left a gap around the vinyl trim. So, I had the "pleasure" of removing some Thermo-tec.

In case it's helpful to someone, figured I'd share what helped with the removal, and left a clean surface.

Slicing mat into smaller sections with a utility knife. 2" wide sections is a good size.
Use small (~1 inch) but stiff putty knife to remove most of the material.
Apply generous amount of Goo Gone with a rag.
Follow with a razor blade. This removes the rest of the very sticky material.
Clean-up with Windex.

I wanted the area clean and free of the sticky mat, so the Roberts 6700 would adhere well to the cockpit wall. Worked pretty good. If someone else has a better way, please share.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172289&d=1662847385

Papa

09-10-2022, 06:00 PM

Looking good, Chris. You're getting close now!

Dave

JohnK

09-10-2022, 06:02 PM

Nice work Chris!

460.465USMC

09-11-2022, 11:18 AM

Looking good, Chris. You're getting close now!

Dave

Thanks, Dave. Really good to have experienced eyes on my build. Appreciate it!

Nice work Chris!

There was a loud slap a couple weeks back--my hand hitting my forehead. :p I was thinking, "A cardboard template to mock up for my FFMetal trans cover. Of course! Why didn't I think of that?" Thanks again.

460.465USMC

09-16-2022, 08:07 PM

Still plugging away on carpet. Have the rear cockpit wall, rear corners, and transmission tunnel sides in so far. The trunk is mostly done, except for the Breeze cubby wall, and the upper trunk inside panels I made. Will cover those once the extra carpet I ordered from F5 arrives.

How many clamps does it take to glue in the piece beneath the driver's side door? Four. The front edge of this piece does three 90* bends around the 2" square tube. I want to end up with crisp corners in the carpet. I've used clamps on some other sections where there are tight bends or other obstacles. This approach definitely holds the carpet down for a nice contour around the bend. Just costs me time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172572&d=1663376384

I'll be glad when the carpet install is over. Not my favorite part of the build so far. But, it sure does a lot to bring the project forward in terms of finish.

John Ibele

09-17-2022, 12:14 PM

^^ Yep, I get it. But still, there's a big visual change that comes with it, which is satisfying. Congrats on the progress, Chris, it's looking great.

John Ibele

09-17-2022, 01:08 PM

Hey Chris, just sent you a PM after missing some previous ones from you. If you didn't get it, we've got some possible PM flakiness on our hands ...

facultyofmusic

09-28-2022, 09:08 PM

460.465USMC

10-02-2022, 12:06 PM

Transmission Tunnel Cover
The trans tunnel cover came back from powder coater a couple weeks ago. I had it coated to match the dash. They did a great job.

The extra width from the ThermoTec + carpet is too wide for the FFMetal cover. So, I removed 1/2" - 3/4" strip along the top. Also needed to shave the carpet pyle for clearance where it contacts the rear bend. Now the cover slips over the tunnel and fits snugly against the carpet.

I wanted the cover to be removable, so I added 10-32 rivnuts. Two per side, about 3" from the front and rear--will show in future update.

Applied ThermoTec to the bottom of the cover. Used Gorilla tape to cover the shiny foil on the ThermoTec. Not the most elegant solution, but I didn't want to leave the ThermoTec exposed so it would be seen from below (when I have it on the lift).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173256&d=1664727824

I put a bead of silicone on the underside of the lips of the cup holders to secure them to the tunnel. I also added hose clamps--not shown--to further secure them from popping out from the air pressure when driving at speed.

Top side view.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173255&d=1664727824

Dead pedal
I planned on copying fellow forum builder John Ibele's dead pedal design. But when I went to the F5 open house in June, I was looking for a couple items I could pick up in-person from local forum vendors. I had the opportunity to see Breeze's setup, and bought the Russ Thompson dead pedal. Mark was very gracious, and showed me his Roadster build as well. Being in the far west away from most of the forum vendors, it was pretty cool to "swing by" Mark's place. Guess I hit the Easy Button on this one.

I measured the distance on a couple daily drivers to get an idea of where I wanted to put it. The distance behind the clutch pedal on my SS is about 3", and about 2.75" behind the brake pedal on the Civic. The location seen in the pictures below is in the range of 3" behind the clutch pedal.

Installation is pretty quick: drill four 1/4" holes, and remove carpet from the area where the two L brackets attach. Mark includes the bolts, washers, and nylon lock nuts. Here's the sideview:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173257&d=1664727886

It's a quality piece. I think it matches up pretty well to the Wilwood pedals. Although it's hard to tell from this picture, the face of the dead pedal is about even with the kick-out F5 now puts in the outer wall of the FB.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173258&d=1664727886

Last night I finished installing the final pieces of carpet in the cockpit. I'm still waiting on the additional carpet I ordered from F5 for the Breeze cubby panel, upper trunk sides, and bottom of RT drop trunk. I should have just enough glue left in the one gallon container to complete the final pieces. Will be glad once the final piece of carpet is installed. Not my favorite part of the build. Although it's very satisfying to see the carpet in place, it's also nerve wracking knowing any mistakes I make will be highly visible. Once I get those trunk pieces in place, I'll update with pictures of the overall carpet install.

Blitzboy54

10-05-2022, 02:30 PM

Looks great Chris! She's really coming along.

Straversi

10-05-2022, 05:38 PM

I can appreciate someone who thinks about what something will look like from below, when it’s on a lift. Lots of OCD behavior on this forum. You are amongst friends.
-Steve

facultyofmusic

10-05-2022, 07:44 PM

Hi Chopper. Thanks!

It's pretty crowded on top of the FB, but here's a picture of the connection using the Tilton 90 deg. adapter. I don't know how else to cleanly make the attachment, so I coughed up the $94 for that little guy.

Not a great picture, but about the best I could get to look through all of the plumbing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169555&d=1658166612

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169556&d=1658166872

Hey Chris, for the 90 degree adapter, did you have to enlarge the cable side hole? From reading build threads it sounds like everyone just threaded it in and tightened the set screw. I'm trying to figure out if I bought the wrong thing or did people just not mentioning it.

JohnK

10-05-2022, 07:46 PM

Dan - I had to enlarge the hole in the one I bought.

460.465USMC

10-05-2022, 09:54 PM

Hey Chris, for the 90 degree adapter, did you have to enlarge the cable side hole? From reading build threads it sounds like everyone just threaded it in and tightened the set screw. I'm trying to figure out if I bought the wrong thing or did people just not mentioning it.

Dan - I had to enlarge the hole in the one I bought.

X2 on enlarging the hole, Dan. It's soft metal (aluminum?), so go slow with the drill.

460.465USMC

10-05-2022, 09:58 PM

I can appreciate someone who thinks about what something will look like from below, when it’s on a lift. Lots of OCD behavior on this forum. You are amongst friends.
-Steve

Thanks, Steve. I guess these are the types of choices we make when we build it to our liking.

Thanks for checking in, and thanks for providing the 7,000 mile update on your build. Good to hear you're still enjoying it!

Fman

10-05-2022, 11:38 PM

Great work on the dead pedal! As you know I am a big fan of the dead pedal, use it all the time.... everything you are doing is really coming together nicely.

460.465USMC

10-06-2022, 01:00 PM

Great work on the dead pedal! As you know I am a big fan of the dead pedal, use it all the time.... everything you are doing is really coming together nicely.

Thanks, Travis! I use the dead pedal ALL THE TIME in my daily drivers. Lots of support from the forum as well, so figured it would be a good option.

I'm playing around with brake and clutch pedal position. I have a set of Forte's AC pedals, but not sure I can make those work given their limited mounting options (one set of holes v. Wilwood's three-position) and the size of my shoes (11).

460.465USMC

10-10-2022, 10:00 PM

I've read about the pros of underbody coating in many other build threads. It seems like a relatively cheap way to protect against paint damage from a rock or other road debris. Plus, I've also read small glimpses of the underbody can be seen from underneath. My Roadster body has been suspended in my garage for about two years. Boy, did it collect a lot of dust while hanging up there. I was able to drop the body down by myself by using the ratcheting pulleys. Rolled it onto the driveway using furniture dollies for prep/sanding.

I don't mind putting in some elbow grease on a task, but the thought of hand sanding the underbody doesn't register on my fun meter. Armed with a gift card from my #2 son, I picked up a DeWalt 5" orbital sander. I also ordered a variety pack of Dura Gold 5" discs, which included coarse grits down to 80 and 60 grit.

Started off sanding with 80 grit, but it didn't seem to rough up the fiberglass to my liking. Especially where the resin is pooled. So, I switched to 60 grit. That improved things. But, even that was not roughing up the surface as I expected. I went to pick up 40 grit discs, but the store only carried 36 grit. Close enough. The 36 grit did a better job, and sped up my sanding progress. I spent about three hours sanding. To clean up, I blew off the dust with my leaf blower, then sprayed it down with water. Finally, I hit it with a scrub brush and gave it a final rinse. Then let it dry overnight. The next day I wiped everything down with mineral spirits to grab as much residue as I could.

Sanding done!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173623&d=1665454879

I put painter's tape on the outside of all the holes (headlight, side vents, roll bars, etc). Then, I applied two coats of Dupli-color bedliner. This is the same product I used on the road-facing side of the horizontal aluminum panels. I let the first coat dry overnight. I left a gap around the wheel wells per forum recommendation. Also left a gap around the side vent openings, as I haven't attached the studs yet that will hold the vent louvers. I still have a little bit of bedliner left over, which will be handy for touch-up of panels, and the underbody. This stuff stores really well: I bought the gallon two years ago. It's been inside the house since then, and it stirred up no problem.

Application note: The Dupli-color comes as a kit with a 4" roller with a special knap, 4" paint tray, and scuffing pad. Because so much of the underside of the body has dips, valleys, and curves the 4" roller wasn't very effective for me. I picked up a chip brush kit. For the second coat I used the 3" chip brush. It easily navigated the terrain, and made it easier to apply a thicker, more even coat. Combined with the smaller 1" brush for tighter spots and edges, this was better than the roller. The roller is fine for flatter terrain.

Paid about $5 for this chip brush kit at Ace.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173622&d=1665454833

Bedliner applied. I don't usually track my hours, but put in about eight hours between the sanding, prep, and bedliner. I also trimmed about 1/4" of the curved lip that covers the top of the dash so it doesn't scratch the powder coat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173624&d=1665454879

Would really like to finish up my last few pieces of carpeting in the trunk. Ordered carpet from F5 about a month ago, but it still hasn't shipped. Patience.

While I'm waiting for the carpet to arrive, I'll probably start troubleshooting low fuel pressure. On my last go-kart the engine started to hesitate, especially at low engine speed (<2K). Fuel pressure gauge showed only 20 PSI. Not good. The set screw that controls fuel pressure on the Aeromotive regulator is tight. I removed my fuel pump access panel (making it accessible is already paying off) and made sure the electrical connector is seated. It is.

The sound of the pump has changed: it sounds like air or fuel is spraying in the tank. Going to bypass the wiring harness with my PowerProbe next to rule out the wiring. I'm not looking forward to pulling apart the fuel lines/pump/and/or tank, but I'm guessing that will be necessary assuming my wiring and RF fuse panel is not the issue. I have the Coyote PCM controlling the fuel pump through the RF fuel circuit per the F5 instructions.

JohnK

10-10-2022, 10:03 PM

Nice work Chris! That looks great. I'm sure all that sanding of fiberglass was a load of fun. :)

460.465USMC

10-10-2022, 10:09 PM

Nice work Chris! That looks great. I'm sure all that sanding of fiberglass was a load of fun. :)

Probably about as much fun as you had! I appreciate your tip on trimming a bit of the lip to protect dash. Now was a good time to do it.

460.465USMC

10-15-2022, 09:15 PM

I was able to get back out to the garage today. Time to troubleshoot low the fuel pressure (~20 PSI) issue. I had previously checked the most obvious things I could think of like making sure the two-prong connector was still tight on the fuel pump, etc.

Figured I should rule out my wiring as my first step. Broke out the Power Probe and confirmed wiring is okay. Phew! As I mentioned in my last update, the sound of the fuel pump had changed: now I was hearing a second spraying sound in addition to the hum of the pump. Disconnected the power at the master cutoff switch, loosened the pump retainer on the outside of the tank, and pulled the pump up a bit. Since the pressure was so low in the fuel line, I didn't have to deal with much fuel spill or mess when I disconnected the fuel line.

Lifted the pump up just a couple inches and could immediately see the 3/8" rubber fuel hose that connects to the hard line at the top had slid down about 1/2". This is shown as the gap between red lines in the picture below. The worm-drive clamp had loosened just enough for the fuel hose to slide down. This explained the spraying sound in the tank, as well as the low fuel pressure.

Here's the culprit: top clamp that connects the hose to the hard line at the top of the pump assembly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173807&d=1665885103

Removed the worm-drive clamp and replaced with a stainless pinch clamp.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173809&d=1665885103

Replaced the bottom clamp with the same while I was at it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173808&d=1665885103

As I was moving the pump out and then back in, I was careful to avoid knocking off the fuel filter "sock" attached to the bottom of the pump. Back when I originally installed the fuel pump in the tank, I knocked the sock off a time or two. Really wanted to avoid repeating that with fuel in the tank.

Buttoned everything back up and tested the pump without starting the motor. Success! Started the motor and let it run for a bit to monitor fuel pressure, and re-checked for leaks. Fuel pressure is back at 65 PSI. All good.

Glad to have this behind me. Now I can get back to making forward progress on the build!

F500guy

10-15-2022, 09:47 PM

Would be a good place for an Oetiker clamp. I would replace the screw clamp as a minimum unless you suspect you did not tighten it. Once they come loose on their own, likely have screw damage that allowed them to loosen up. Oops, I see it looks like that is what you have done, did not notice that.

facultyofmusic

10-16-2022, 01:35 AM

Good work finding that loose clamp! Sounds like it could have taken much longer but luck was on our side. :p

edwardb

10-16-2022, 08:31 AM

Lifted the pump up just a couple inches and could immediately see the 3/8" rubber fuel hose that connects to the hard line at the top had slid down about 1/2". This is shown as the gap between red lines in the picture below. The worm-drive clamp had loosened just enough for the fuel hose to slide down. This explained the spraying sound in the tank, as well as the low fuel pressure.

Here's the culprit: top clamp that connects the hose to the hard line at the top of the pump assembly.

Removed the worm-drive clamp and replaced with a stainless pinch clamp.

Replaced the bottom clamp with the same while I was at it...

Good find. I had a sneaking suspicion the problem was something with that S tube when you described it. (Really! :rolleyes:) But didn't post. The symptoms exactly described it as either loose or failed. Which they also sometimes do. Although they're not as serviceable (e.g. one-time use) those squeeze Oetiker style clamps are generally more reliable than worm drive clamps for smaller diameter tubing. I use them on all my builds. I've gathered a collection of the various range sizes and the special pinzer tool. Not particularly expensive and haven't had one fail yet.

460.465USMC

10-16-2022, 11:38 AM

Good work finding that loose clamp! Sounds like it could have taken much longer but luck was on our side. :p

Thanks, Dan. Yeah, I was not looking forward to getting deep into a fuel system disassembly so soon in my build. Glad I was able to access and fix the issue without dropping the tank (again!). I don't recall if I checked those worm-drive clamps for tightness before installing. The bottom one was still pretty tight.

Good find. I had a sneaking suspicion the problem was something with that S tube when you described it. (Really! :rolleyes:) But didn't post. The symptoms exactly described it as either loose or failed. Which they also sometimes do. Although they're not as serviceable (e.g. one-time use) those squeeze Oetiker style clamps are generally more reliable than worm drive clamps for smaller diameter tubing. I use them on all my builds. I've gathered a collection of the various range sizes and the special pinzer tool. Not particularly expensive and haven't had one fail yet.

Thanks, Paul. After eliminating my electrical work, my head went right to failed pump. Glad I was wrong.

I've done my own underground sprinkler maintenance over the years, so was familiar with pinch clamps for that application (and had the special tool on-hand). I didn't know they could be used in automotive applications until I saw them on your build. Then, I noticed other builders were using them as well. I bought an assortment of 304 stainless, and noticed they have slots compared to the sprinkler version. I assume these slots help "lock-in" the smaller circumference once it's pinched.

Here's a couple comparison photos showing the differences between the slotted type that came in my assorted kit with the version I use for sprinkler maintenance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173819&d=1665937294

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173820&d=1665937356