JB in NOVA's MK4 build : First overnight road trip!

[JB in NOVA]

Hello everyone,

I am JB in NOVA. I’ve been a big fan of this forum for a couple of years. Thank you everyone for making this such a helpful, non-judgmental, collaborative forum! I’ve learned a lot from the build threads, so I figured I would do my part to contribute.

I have almost zero experience building cars. When I was a teenager, I used my lawnmowing money to buy a 1966 Mustang from the original owner with about 100K miles and a lot of rust. I think I paid about $700 for it. My friends called it the “Rust-tang.” I did some body work and got it looking pretty good, but I would not put this in the category of “automotive experience.” It was mostly a lot of Bondo and a Maaco paint job at the end. Looking back, I’m a little ashamed that I treated a classic car that way . . . but I was a teenager!

I bought a FFR Mk IV kit to atone for my past automotive sins. I want to build it the right way, and I humbly ask the forum to keep me from doing anything stupid. I attended the build school at Mott CC this January (in a blizzard, thank you very much). It was a great experience, and I’m really glad I did it. I took notes and lots of pictures, so hopefully that will steer me away from any true disasters in this project. But still, I’m worried . . .

Here’s my anticipated build:

MK4 Complete kit-powder coated
Moser solid rear axle, 3-Link suspension
Blueprint 347 engine, EFI
Tremac TKO 600
Hydraulic clutch
Halibrand wheels
Dual chrome roll bars
Front battery box (Breeze)
Radiator shroud (Breeze)
Steering-mounted turn signal (Russ Thompson)
Drop trunk (Russ Thompson)
Custom accelerator pedal (Russ Thompson)
Vintage gauges
Glove Box
Wind Visors
Sun Visors
Heated seats

In closing, I will make three predictions:

(1) I will eventually disprove the notion that “there are no stupid questions.”
(2) I will make every mistake that can possibly be made, and sometimes twice.
(3) I will be very grateful for any advice the forum provides, even if you make fun of me in the process.

Okay, let’s build a car!

[jrcuz]

Welcome JB. I'm South of you a bit in Stafford and been building a Mk4. It was delivered Mar. of 17. I have a 347 from Mike Forte with a Tremec TKO 600. I'm pretty close to being finished. There are 2 other owner builders close to me one a MK3 and the other a Mk4. I know there are several others up your way also and I'm sure some will check-in with you. When this social distancing business is over you are welcome to visit any time just PM me. I'm retired so anytime is fine. Also I have a build thread on the other forum "JRCuz's MK4 build"
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Thanks jrcuz. I just checked out your build thread, and your MK4 is looking great! I noticed you installed cupholders -- I was thinking about that, too. By the way, do you know if you have to have power windshield wipers to pass inspection in VA?

[JB in NOVA]

My kit was delivered about two weeks ago (April 11, 2020), so I will quickly recap what I’ve done so far. Here’s the beautiful sight of the FFR truck pulling up to my house:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127087&d=1587738479

Offloading from the truck. The guy from Stewart Transportation was terrific – really an impressive operation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127088&d=1587738499

And here’s my new MK4 kit safely set up in its new home:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127089&d=1587738562

I spent a full day and a half doing inventory. It’s a tedious process, but it really helps to learn what everything is and where it’s located. The instructors at the build school suggested consolidating parts to reduce the number of boxes, but I decided not to do this (for now). I’m finding that the inventory sheets are a helpful roadmap in finding parts for each step, so I want to keep everything stored the way they are listed in the inventory (for now). Luckily, I have plenty of space.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127090&d=1587738586

[JB in NOVA]

With the help of my wife, my daughter, and a friend, we successfully got the body off the frame and onto the body buck:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127056&d=1587701433

Next, I removed all the aluminum, taking lots of pictures of how each piece fits together and also the size and shape of each piece. I know that once pieces are powder coated, it can be hard to remember which one is which. So I took “mug shots” of each one like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127091&d=1587738626

My plan is to powder coat all the panels that are visible (except the wheel wells – I will probably use bedliner or something else on those). I marked and drilled all the panels I wanted to get powder coated so I could get that process started. Here’s the list of panels I decided to powder coat: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 23, 24, 25, 26. That’s basically the F-panels, the DS and PS footboxes, the firewall, and the transmission tunnel front vertical wall. I also included the steel trunk hinges and the quick jack brackets.

I’ve resigned myself to the fact that there will have to be a second batch for powder coating. For instance, I also want to powder coat the trunk panels, but I figured I should wait to do that until after I finish the drop trunk modification. So I will keep track of any additional pieces that need powder coating and try to include those in the second batch. Any suggestions?

Regarding powder coating color, I studied lots of build threads and, for me, it came down to either silver or black. In the end, I decided to go with a very lightly textured satin black. I’ll post pictures once I get the panels back from the powder coater.

[JB in NOVA]

ROOKIE MISTAKE: The day after I dropped off my panels for powder coating, I realized I had made a mistake. The FFR manual lists panel 11 as “LEFT FOOTBOX FRONT – WILWOOD START 1/1/19.” It has part number 16736. A separate panel 49, with part number 10904 is identified as “LEFT FOOTBOX, FRONT – MUSTANG PEDALS.” The panel that came mounted on my chassis (which I dropped off for powder coating) is the one for Mustang pedals, which is the wrong one for my build. The correct panel was in a box. Oops!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127095&d=1587740053

Luckily, I figured this out, marked and drilled the correct panel, and drove it out to the powder coater that morning before he had started with my batch. If I had read my inventory sheet more carefully, I would have caught this. Lesson learned!

[JB in NOVA]

My front lower control arms are on back order, so I started with the upper control arms, and I also assembled the front brake calipers and shocks:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127092&d=1587738649 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127093&d=1587738666 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127094&d=1587738682

Please let me know if anyone sees anything wrong with my assemblies so far.

[Straversi]

Congratulations and welcome. You will be just fine. Enjoy the process, even the mistakes. i look forward to following along with your build.
-Steve

[JB in NOVA]

After a few days of haggling with UPS, I finally got the Moser rear axle delivered. Hurray! UPS was restricted to “curbside” delivery because of the COVID-19 issue. But luckily the UPS guy (former marine, car buff, and a great guy) let me borrow his hydraulic dolly so I could roll it up to the garage. Otherwise, that would have been a real challenge getting it up my steep driveway.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127055&d=1587701414

Got it up on jacks and went to work on the rear brakes and suspension.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127100&d=1587742534

[JB in NOVA]

The first step in the FFR manual is: “If not on the axle, attach the desired rear brakes to the axle.” It then says “Check out the Appendix for the optional FFR brake install . . .” But unless I’m missing something, I did not see any instructions in the Appendix for the FFR 11.65” rear brake install.

I went online and found these instructions with an effective date of 06/03/13: https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Rear-Brake-Instructions-rev-B.pdf The only problem is they are for Part Number 15042, and my rear brakes have part number 16285. On the other hand, all of the components pictured in the 2013 instructions look the same as mine. I decided to follow the 2013 instructions, but if anyone knows of more updated instructions for the FFR 11.65” rear brakes, please let me know.

The first step is to install the caliper axle mount bracket and the caliper bracket on each side and torque the bolts to 45-50 ft-lbs. Easy enough, except there was not enough room for me to get a torque wrench on either side of the bolt to torque it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127052&d=1587701400 Nut-side is a no-go.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127101&d=1587742623 Bolt-side is also a no-go.

FFR Forum to the rescue! I found a discussion of this in Meindle’s Mk IV Build thread. He recommended using a crow foot wrench extension with the torque wrench. After a quick trip to Harbor Freight, I became the proud owner of these:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127102&d=1587742648

And it worked like a charm. Got everything torqued to spec, and it was on to the next step . . .

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127053&d=1587701404

[JB in NOVA]

The 2013 instructions that I followed for the 11.65” FFR rear brake assembly did not mention installing anti-chatter clips. But the box with the brake pads included two pairs of clips, which I assume are anti-chatter clips:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127051&d=1587701395

I could not figure out an obvious way that these would fit into the FFR 11.65” rear brake calipers, so I left them out, consistent with the 2013 instructions that I am following. IS THIS OKAY? If anyone thinks these need to be installed and can explain how to do it, I would appreciate your advice. Meanwhile, I assembled the calipers, mounted the rotors, cleaned them with brake cleaner, and installed the rear brakes without tightening them to spec.

Here’s how they look:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127103&d=1587745679 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127104&d=1587745696

The clearance on the inside is tighter than on the outside, although the rotor doesn’t seem to be making contact with the caliper body and it does spin without too much effort. Anyone have thoughts about the clearance in these pictures?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127105&d=1587745709
outside clearance, slight gap between pad and rotor, plenty of clearance between caliper body and rotor.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127106&d=1587745727
Inside clearance. No gap between pad and rotor (although rotor does turn without too much effort). Very little clearance between rotor and caliper body (maybe a millimeter or less).

It feels like I should try to center the rotor better so that the clearance on both sides is the same. But I’m not sure how to do that. Anyone have any advice? Or does this set up seem okay, considering that the rotor does turn without too much effort?

TWO IMPORTANT EDITS: (1) the rear calipers are installed upside-down in this post. I corrected this error in post #70. (2) The anti-clatter clips should be installed, although it is tricky. I addressed this in post #76.

[RJD]

Hi JB and welcome. I'm over in Alexandria and wrapping up my build.

The below instructions are from 2016 and are on the FF5 racing site under "Parts" and then "Instructions." You'll also find the instructions there for other options like the windshield wipers, front bumper, wind wings, etc.

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/content/instructions/15580-rear-brake-instructions-rev-c.pdf

[Caddy Dad]

Hi JB,
I'm just north of you in the Columbia MD area. Welcome to the build! You're going to have a blast. I received my kit Jan 2 2020 and I'm getting close to go carting. I too have a 347 with EFI, TKO600 from BPE. There is another builder in your area too. Check out VAHokie build thread. One tip I learned on importing pictures was to open them in Paint then do a save. By doing so the picture come out right side up. I'm not sure why it works, but it does.

Cheers!

[BadAsp427]

My front lower control arms are on back order, so I started with the upper control arms, and I also assembled the front brake calipers and shocks:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127092&d=1587738649 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127093&d=1587738666 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127094&d=1587738682

Please let me know if anyone sees anything wrong with my assemblies so far.

Your work is looking great... Welcome to the fun. On your upper control arms (if you are going with power steering) you will want to do a small modification so that you will be able to get the correct alignment caster numbers. CV2065 (Chad) outlined this modification pretty good in his build thread. Here is a LINK (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29094-CV2065-MKIV-Build-Thread-Go-Karting-and-More&p=369591&viewfull=1#post369591) to his page and information on this modification.

Again, welcome and enjoy the build...

[JB in NOVA]

Thanks for the tips everyone. RJD, thanks for the link to the updated rear brake instructions. I don't know why I didn't find that when I was searching. Anyway, I compared the 2016 instructions to the 2013 instructions that I followed, and they are identical. And neither mentions installing anti-chatter clips, so I'm going to assume I'm OK without those.

Caddy Dad, thanks for the tip about pictures. I was a little worried about posting landscape pictures because they sometimes get rendered upside down on some browsers. The Exif file that gets saved with the picture includes orientation info from the phone's accelerometer to indicate which way the camera was oriented when the picture was taken. Most browsers can read this info and correctly orient the picture when it is rendered, but apparently not all. In my browser, all the pictures are correctly oriented, but I know that's not the case for everyone's. I'll try to fix that going forward.

[JB in NOVA]

Yesterday was a productive day. I filled the axle with gear oil. As others have advised, I did not take off the casing cover to do this (as the manual instructs) but instead used the fill port on the side. It took just shy of 2 quarts of gear oil, plus 4 oz. of additive.

I went ahead and connected the shocks to the mounting brackets on the axle before installing the axle because that’s the way we did it in the build school. One thing I came across is some confusion about the bolts that are used to connect the shocks to the upper and lower mounts. The manual says to “Install the kit ½” x 4” bolts [that] are provided for each lower shock mount.” But on the inventory sheet, the 4” bolts are specified for the upper shock mounts, whereas 3” bolts are included in the part list for the traction lok brackets that go on the axle (i.e., the lower shock mounts).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127163&d=1587816504

Hmm . . . should I go with what the manual says, or what the inventory sheet says? My instinct was to go with the manual, but that would mean the 3” bolts (if installed in the upper mount) would have to carry two 1.09” spacers and the shock and still have enough length left over to thread a nut. A quick mock-up told me that this was not feasible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127164&d=1587816528 (mock-up using 3" bolt)

So I went with the 3” bolts in the lower shock mount, which seemed to work fine, and the 4” bolts in the upper shock mount, which also seemed to work fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127165&d=1587816545 (4" bolt in upper shock mount)

If anyone thinks I got this wrong, please let me know. Otherwise, I’ll assume the manual was incorrect on this point.

[JB in NOVA]

Next, I used a floor jack to position the rear axle and bolt it to the frame. I’m pretty sure the instructors at the build school would have given me a D-minus for my technique and awarded me zero style points. But I got it done:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127166&d=1587816557

I found that a rubber mallet was useful for encouraging the lower control arms to slip into the mounting brackets. Also, I had a tough time getting the bolt for the PS lower control arm all the way through the mounting bracket. There was about 1/8” misalignment preventing it from sliding through.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127167&d=1587816572

I thought that I could cure this by jacking the axle up even further, but as I did so it began to tilt. And that’s when I realized (with a slap to the forehead and a Homer Simpson “Doh!”) that the panhard bar frame mount was still in place. The axle was hitting it on the left side.

I removed the Panhard bar frame (see picture below), jacked up the axle another 6-8 inches, and bolt holes on the PS lower control arm bracket magically aligned. So the lesson learned here is: remove the Panhard bar frame before putting the axle in place, just in case you need to jack up the axle a bit higher to get better alignment. The FFR manual seems to have the removal step after the axle is mounted, but I think it should be before.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127168&d=1587816584 (Panhard bar frame)

Quick aside. I was curious why “Panhard bar” is capitalized they way it is. According to Wikipedia, it was “originally invented by the Panhard automobile company of France in the early twentieth century.” I wasn’t familiar with the Panhard company. Here’s a picture of a 1955 Panhard Dyna Junior (from Wiki Commons):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127169&d=1587816594

[JB in NOVA]

Not much progress yesterday, except for a “learning experience,” which I guess is a form of progress. The problem started when I went to install the forward ½” x 2.5” bolt of the Panhard bar frame into the 3” round car frame tube. I drilled a ½” hole, per the instructions, and began to thread the bolt into a locknut inside the 3” tube. I set my torque wrench for 75 ft-lbs, but when it clicked, the bolt still had some ways to go. I didn’t want to torque any further, so I started to loosen the bolt. And then this happened:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127224&d=1587903446

By the grace of God, I was able to extract the threaded portion by wrenching the nut from inside the 3” tube. I suspect the bolt had been threading on some sort of sharp edge left over after my (apparently shoddy) drilling job.
Quick trip to the hardware store for a replacement bolt and locknut, re-inserted the drill bit and rounded out the hole to make sure the bolt slid through easily without snagging any sharp edges, then everything tightened up just fine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127225&d=1587903459

Disaster averted and lesson learned!

[JB in NOVA]

Today, I finished the rear suspension (except for rough alignment, which I’ll do once I can finish the front suspension. I did have trouble getting both spacers into the DS Panhard mount. As many others on this forum have suggested, I made myself a spreader tool using a long bolt, two nuts and some washers. It worked like a charm:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127259&d=1587925406 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127260&d=1587925429 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127261&d=1587925446

Thank you, FFR forum, for teaching me this cheap and elegant solution! I surely would have mangled this bracket if left to my own devices.

When I completed the rear suspension, these fasteners were left over:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127262&d=1587925473

I think I’ve read on other build threads that these are not used when the banana bracket comes welded to the frame. If I’m wrong about that, can someone please let me know?

This hose was also included in the rear suspension box. I’m assuming this connects to the rear axle vent. Is that right?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127263&d=1587925486

[RJD]

If you haven't already done it, now might be a good time to check the rebound setting of your shocks. One of mine was set differently from the others when I was installing them.

127268

[jrcuz]

I second checking your shock settings, good time to do it if you haven't already. Good progress also.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

RJD and jrcuz, thanks for the suggestion! I will do that tomorrow morning.

All: I have a question about the brake master cylinders provided with my kit. I was under the impression that the master cylinders would be two different bore sizes, 3/4" for the front brakes and 5/8" for the rear brakes. For instance, see the discussion here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22608-Need-some-guidance-on-master-cylinder-bore-sizes But in my kit, the master cylinders are both 3/4". They are listed in the inventory as FFR # 16255 "3/4 MASTER CYLINDER KIT" - Qty 2.00. And I verified that they are both stamped with "0.75." Is this how FFR is now doing it? I understand that's how they used to do it several years ago but changed at some point to the 3/4" and 5/8" combination. Have they switched back? Is there any problem using identical sized master cylinders for the front and back?

As always, I would greatly appreciate any advice.

[VAHokie]

Welcome JB and congrats on the build. I'm also in NoVA (Chantilly). Reach out any time.

Tony

[JB in NOVA]

All: I have a question about the brake master cylinders provided with my kit. I was under the impression that the master cylinders would be two different bore sizes, 3/4" for the front brakes and 5/8" for the rear brakes. For instance, see the discussion here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22608-Need-some-guidance-on-master-cylinder-bore-sizes But in my kit, the master cylinders are both 3/4". They are listed in the inventory as FFR # 16255 "3/4 MASTER CYLINDER KIT" - Qty 2.00. And I verified that they are both stamped with "0.75." Is this how FFR is now doing it? I understand that's how they used to do it several years ago but changed at some point to the 3/4" and 5/8" combination. Have they switched back? Is there any problem using identical sized master cylinders for the front and back?


After a little more forum browsing, I found the answer to this question in Patrick's 427 build thread. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31206-Patrick-s-427-Build/page3 Post #110. FFR has switched to 3/4 inch master cylinders for both front and rear brakes. Thanks Patrick!

[JB in NOVA]

Some progress to report today. I got the panels back from the powder coater, and I’m very happy with them. A lightly textured satin black. For those in my area, I used NVCoatings in Chantilly,VA, and I was very happy with their service. I decided to use black rivets on the coated panels for a cleaner look. Got the F-panels and the DS footbox front panel installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127457&d=1588183090 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127458&d=1588183102

Next, I installed the pedal box assembly. To be honest, I was a bit intimidated by this step because the brake/clutch pedal assembly is so awkward, and even in the build school it was difficult to see exactly how everything fit together. But once I got it mocked up in the foot box and hand-tightened to the front footbox wall, I felt much more comfortable with it. I went ahead and sealed and riveted the footbox front panel and proceeded to the final installation.

[JB in NOVA]

The pedal box assembly went fairly well with a few minor hiccups. First, the FFR manual says to “insert three 3/8” x 1” socket head screws from the pedal box hardware assembly and the one included in this pedal assembly through the front of the footbox and through the pedal mount.” But there was no other 3/8 x 1” screw in my pedal assembly hardware, nor was any listed on the inventory. I did notice there are two 3/8 x two-inch socket head screws in the pedal box hardware that are specified for “PEDAL BOX TO FRONT PLATE, LOWER.” But I assume these are for the Mustang pedal box because they don’t seem to match up to my Wilwood set up.

Anyway, long story short, a quick trip to the hardware store for a 3/8” x 1” socket head screw and I was back on track. It was a perfect match for the other three.

I followed the FFR instructions, except I did not trim 5/8” off the master cylinder threaded shafts yet, as many on this forum have advised. I got everything installed and it seemed to work okay except the balance bar and brake push rods were all loose and unstable:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127459&d=1588183118

“That can’t be right,” I thought. But when I looked back through the FFR instructions, I didn’t see any step that mentioned tightening them up. On the other hand, the FFR manual has a picture where they are much snugger than what I had:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127460&d=1588183148

So I removed the master cylinders and twirled the pushrod mounts on the balance bar as much as I could until they were fairly close to the pedal pivot. While I was at it, I trimmed about 1/4” off the brake master cylinder threaded shafts (which was all I seemed to need), and about 3/8” off the clutch master cylinder.

I reinstalled everything, and this is how it looks now:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127461&d=1588183165 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127462&d=1588183179

The brake pedal moves smoothly with reasonable pressure until it hits the footbox wall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127464&d=1588183206

The clutch pedal moves smoothly with a little less pressure until it hits the ¾” tube on the left-hand side, which stops its travel about 3/4 inch from the footbox wall. IS THAT OK?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127463&d=1588183192

Finally, both pedals are adjusted to be at the same resting position:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127465&d=1588183222

I would greatly appreciate if someone more knowledgeable than me could check my work here. It “feels” right, but I don’t have enough experience to know if there might be trouble lurking in here somewhere. Also, do I need to be concerned that the clutch pedal doesn’t reach all the way to the footbox wall? If so, what can I do about it? Thanks.

[JB in NOVA]

One quick note. I have now studied a bit more about the balance bar. I found this thread particularly helpful: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28877-MK4-Brake-Balance-Bar-Questions. It seems the prevailing advice from edwardb, Boss 427 and others is to install per the instructions, centered as shown, and wait for later to adjust it. So that is what I will do.

[jrcuz]

Hi JB, when time comes to bleed your brakes to do it properly with the balance bar I believe you will need to do one side both front and rear calipers at the same time.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I’m making progress inch by inch (and rivet by rivet). This little guy wants me to hurry up and finish so he can go for a ride:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127670&d=1588539800

Because I’m still waiting for the front LCAs, I decided to start working on the cockpit aluminum. The first thing I had to decide is how to treat the panels that would not be visible once the build is complete. My first instinct was to leave them bare. My noobie mind was having a hard time figuring out why I would want to spend time prepping and coating “hidden” aluminum panels, as opposed to just letting them be. The aluminum oxide coating that forms on aluminum is an excellent corrosion inhibitor, which is why aluminum has been described as a “miracle metal.” But the more I thought about it, the more I felt like I should paint them black. The amount of work involved is not that much more, and I figured I might regret it later if some bare aluminum peeked through here and there where I didn’t want it. Also, painting the panels certainly wouldn’t hurt, since they will mostly be covered by insulation anyway. Bottom line: Low Risk, Low Reward.

After marking and drilling the panels, I wiped them down with Acetone to remove the ink and grime. Then I sanded with 120 grit sandpaper to rough up the surface for better paint adhesion. I washed with water to remove the sanding residue and let dry. Then, just before painting, I wiped them down again with acetone.

We had beautiful weather this weekend, so I decided to set up my painting operation in my backyard. When my neighbors saw this ticky-tack operation going on, I’m sure they thought, “welp, there goes the neighborhood!”

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127671&d=1588539817

I put on two coats of self-etching primer and three coats of Dupli-Color Rust Barrier. Although I’m not worried about rust, this product has a slightly rubberized finish (not as much as bedliner) that I thought could provide a tiny bit of extra protection against rattles. I like the finish, although it does scratch easily and has the typical unevenness of “rattle can” application. Should be fine for hidden panels, though.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127672&d=1588539852

I assembled the PS footbox and the PS and DS floors. I left the cockpit corners cleco’d for now. No major problems with the panel installation, except I broke a drill bit when I tried to drill too close to a weld (I thought it would clear the weld . . . it didn’t). Also, my arms are really sore now! I found the short rivets worked well in most places, except where the rivet had to go through two aluminum panels and a frame tube. I used the longer rivets for those locations. Here’s the result:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127673&d=1588539870 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127674&d=1588539898

[jrcuz]

Good going JB. The only fhing I did to my floors was to spray the bottoms with Duplicolor rattle can bedliner.
JR

[VAHokie]

Nice progress, JB. Like you, I’ve been thinking about how best to coat the panels that weren’t powder coated. Picked up rustoleums professional primer and top coat aerosol specifically for aluminum. Tested it on my dash brace to see how it is and it looks good. Similar to your experience, slightly uneven application and will likely show knicks from road debris kicking up, but I’ll be easy enough to touch up.

[JB in NOVA]

Nice progress, JB. Like you, I’ve been thinking about how best to coat the panels that weren’t powder coated. Picked up rustoleums professional primer and top coat aerosol specifically for aluminum. Tested it on my dash brace to see how it is and it looks good. Similar to your experience, slightly uneven application and will likely show knicks from road debris kicking up, but I’ll be easy enough to touch up.

Tony, thanks for the feedback. I've really learned a lot from your build thread. Your approach is unbelievably methodical -- you definitely must be an engineer. FYI, both of my brothers went to Virginia Tech (both engineers). But I took a different route in life and went to "Canoe U" on the Severn River.

[JB in NOVA]

Hi JB, when time comes to bleed your brakes to do it properly with the balance bar I believe you will need to do one side both front and rear calipers at the same time.
JR

JR, I may be calling you when that time comes! Bleeding the brakes is high on my "anxiety list."

[jrcuz]

JB, I'll be glad to help. Running brake lines was on my "anxiety list", I put it off for what seemed like forever and when I did it I wondered why I had waited so long. When this social distancing is over let me know and I'll be there.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Real work has been keeping me busy lately, but I managed to address one small thing that has been bugging me about my Roadster project. I did not like the way the clear silicone caulk could be seen between the powder coated panels on the PS footbox and the F-panels. Even though I applied this caulk very sparingly during the sealing and riveting process, I still got some overflow:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127853&d=1588804259 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127854&d=1588804273

I used a plastic knife to clean out the clear caulk in these seams:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127855&d=1588804285

Then I replaced it with a bead of black silicone caulk. Now it looks much better:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127856&d=1588804297 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127857&d=1588804311

I will be using black silicone from now on in this project. Another lesson learned!

[JB in NOVA]

Today, I started thinking about how to seal the PS footbox. As assembled, the footbox put on quite a “light show” from the inside:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127903&d=1588897104

I understand from others’ build threads that these gaps will all need to be sealed up. For the big gap around the 2” round frame tube in the right corner, I fashioned some flashing from a sheet of a .019” aluminum:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127904&d=1588897120

I tried to fashion a single piece of aluminum that would seal all around the tube (i.e., by bending a bottom extension into place) but it proved too difficult (for me). So instead I fashioned a second L-shaped piece to seal the remaining gap between the floorboard and the tube. I also drilled holes to accommodate the rivet stems. It won’t win any beauty awards, but it should work fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127905&d=1588897136

I sealed the pieces into place with silicone caulk. Then I sealed all the seams in the footbox from the inside and the outside. The result: no more light show.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127906&d=1588897149

[JB in NOVA]

I started fitting up some of the trunk aluminum today, including the Russ Thompson drop drunk modification. I found the RT kit to be high quality with clear instructions. Russ did a nice job making this kit “idiot proof,” which I really appreciate because . . . well, you know. He even annotated the panels, so all I had to do is match A with A, B with B, etc.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127942&d=1588970682

The box goes together fairly easily. Then it’s necessary to cut four notches in the box to accommodate the frame tubing. As others have mentioned, I found that the left, front notch does not end up “entirely” in the side of the box, as Russ’s instructions state. Instead, it ends up directly on the corner.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127943&d=1588970694

This is not a problem, although it did cut away one of my rivets in that corner. So when I was done with the notching, I drilled a new hole and put in a new rivet to maintain the box’s structural integrity.

Once I was done with the left, front corner, I cut the notch on the right side. Then I semi-installed the box from the bottom to check my original markings for the two rear notches. I’m glad I did! They were both about ½” off. I used a makeshift stand to keep the box in place from the bottom while I double-, triple-, and quadruple-checked the position of the rear notches.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127944&d=1588970709

This was an awkward process. The position of the frame tubes seemed to end up in slightly different positions each time I marked, until my markings soon looked like indecipherable scribble. I finally decided on the “consensus” markings and made the cuts there. To my surprise, it was a perfect fit:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127945&d=1588970727

I’m glad I made this modification. It was relatively easy, and now I’ll have some extra trunk space for . . . whatever.

While I was at it, I also did the "Kleiner" modification to make installing the rear quickjacks easier to install. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14243-Rear-quick-jack-mounting

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127946&d=1588971352

[jrcuz]

JB, you're doing things that I now wish I had done to mine like the drop trunk mod. I did do the "Kleiner" mod's, I installed the bumper and overriders.
JR

[VAHokie]

P
Tony, thanks for the feedback. I've really learned a lot from your build thread. Your approach is unbelievably methodical -- you definitely must be an engineer. FYI, both of my brothers went to Virginia Tech (both engineers). But I took a different route in life and went to "Canoe U" on the Severn River.

Glad the thread has helped! In addition to being a detailed build log for future reference, I hoped to share what I’ve learned from so many others so that novices like me could learn and benefit from it. My cousin graduated from the Naval Academy, and my go-to build attire is actually a Navy sweatshirt.

[JB in NOVA]

Today I spent some time thinking about where and how to mount my brake/clutch reservoirs. I bought a triple reservoir from Speedway – a little smaller capacity than I was hoping for, but I think it should work fine. I’ve decided to mount it on the ¾” top frame rail in front of the DS footbox, as most folks on this forum have done. I understand it needs to no farther than 12” forward from the footbox to avoid interference with the hood struts, and that it should be as high as possible without being higher than the frame rail itself. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30848-dual-triple-reservoir-placement

With these constraints in mind, I made a few bracket mock-ups with 0.019” aluminum to see how various options would look. I know this topic has been beaten to death on this forum, but I needed to see how each option would look on my build to decide which is best for me.

I first mocked up the simplest option: a flat bracket that attached to the inside of the frame rail:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128006&d=1589077011

Two things I noticed about this mock-up. First, because I mounted the triple-reservoirs square with the bracket, which itself was mounted square with the frame rail, the reservoirs ended up at a 5-10 degree longitudinal angle relative to ground:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128007&d=1589077022

I have no idea if this could adversely affect brake/clutch operation, but it bugs me from an aesthetic standpoint. I would prefer to have the reservoirs level to ground, rather than to the frame rail. The other thing that concerned me about the flat-bracket approach is that the bracket consumes some space on the inside of the rail. Not a big deal with .019” aluminum, but I’m planning to use thicker aluminum for the bracket, so I’m concerned this might interfere with the fiberglass lip that overhangs this frame rail when the body is installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128008&d=1589077043

My next mock-up had a ¾-inch 90-degree angle so that it could mount beneath the frame rail, eliminating the interference problem. I also mounted the triple-reservoir so that it was approximately level to ground:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128011&d=1589077154

I liked this approach better, but one thing I worry about is whether I would have enough access to the caps once the body was mounted, i.e., whether the whole assembly needed to be pushed a bit further toward the engine. In my third mock-up, I addressed this by adding ¾” to the horizontal lip at the top:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128009&d=1589077088

So far, I like this approach best, but with the extra unsupported horizontal extension at the top, I wonder if I’ll need a brace of some sort to prevent excessive vibration. I don’t want my brake and clutch reservoirs bouncing back and forth on an aluminum “spring” while I’m driving. I mocked up a back brace as one possible solution, running from the bottom of the top frame rail to the bottom of the bracket on the back side, basically like a shelf support:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128010&d=1589077103

I’m still noodling options, but I’m leaning toward the third option with a back brace. If anyone with more experience than me has any pearls of wisdom on this topic, I would (as always) be very grateful for your input.

[JB in NOVA]

Some more progress to report today. My front lower control arms finally arrived, so I spent some quality time in the garage putting the IFS components together. Everything fit together reasonably well, with a few minor hiccups. The DS front bracket needed quite a bit of work with a spreading tool to get the lower control arm in place. The PS front bracket had the opposite situation – it actually had enough extra space to fit one of the spacers. Although the manual only says to use the spacers in the rear bracket, I assume it is OK to also use them to take space in the front brackets too, if necessary:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128244&d=1589252513 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128243&d=1589252500

If I’m wrong about that, please let me know!

Anyway, here’s how everything looks now (not yet torqued to spec). Please let me know if you see anything wrong. I would not be at all surprised if I did something incorrectly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128242&d=1589252484 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128241&d=1589252470 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128240&d=1589252454

I have not tightened anything to spec yet for two reasons. First, my torque wrench only goes up to 80 ft. lbs., nowhere near the 225-250 ft. lbs. needed for the wheel hubs. I was planning on borrowing/renting a big wrench from Auto Zone, but their lending program is apparently suspended because of COVID-19.

The other reason I’m waiting is that I’ve decided to install a power steering rack, and now I’m wondering if I need to trim a bit off the UCA adjusting sleeves. I know a number of threads have discussed this, e.g., https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27330-Unable-to-get-enough-Caster-amp-Camber. As a noobie, I’m really hesitant to take a hack saw to any portion of my front suspension, but I understand it will likely need to be done eventually because of the PS option. My question is: is it better to wait until I’ve actually done a rough alignment to figure out how much (if any) needs to be trimmed? Or go ahead and trim some off now, following the guidance of others who have already done it?

My next step is going to be the power steering rack, so we’ll see how that goes . . .

[JB in NOVA]

Well, installing the power steering rack was an adventure, but I got it done! To bring the thread up to date, I decided to go with PS a few weeks ago while I was waiting for my LCA’s to arrive. Actually, I had originally wanted to do PS from the beginning, but I talked myself out of it when I ordered my complete kit because I thought it might add too much complexity to my build. Back then, I was trying to adhere to the KISS principle. But the more I researched it, the more I felt it was something I could probably handle.

I ordered an OEM replacement PS rack for a 1989 Mustang from Rock Auto. I also ordered Breeze offset solid aluminum bushings, which many on this forum have praised. I actually got a very nice call from Mark Reynolds from Breeze, who responded to a web query I posted about PS. It was nice of him to spend some time talking to me (a newbie) about how to install power steering on my Roadster.

Everything arrived in short order, and last night I began tackling the project. The first step was to remove the existing bushings, which was fairly easy with some taps of a hammer. The next step was to install the Breeze solid aluminum bushings. Some have said their Breeze bushings slipped in with ease, but mine did not. They were very snug, but I was able to get them in with a rubber mallet:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128269&d=1589325180

The next step was to test fit the rack on the frame. Like many have reported, I experienced some difficulty getting the passenger side bolt through the rear bracket. I did a lot of sanding with 100 grit sandpaper wrapped around a dowel, but I still could not get it through:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128270&d=1589325192

Eventually, I used a grinding tool to open up the hole enough to get the bolt through, and that worked fine.

The next step was to trim about 3/8 inch off the front rack mounting brackets (AKA rear LCA brackets) to avoid interference with the rubber boots. I used a Dremel cutting wheel and grinder to do this, then I primed and painted the exposed metal. I think it turned out OK:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128271&d=1589325207 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128272&d=1589325224

[JB in NOVA]

(Power Steering continued . . .)

I did have a “newbie moment” when I was trying to insert the tie rod ends into the steering arms on the spindles. At first, I could not figure out how this was going to happen given the misalignment of the tie rod end bolt versus the corresponding hole in the steering arm:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128273&d=1589325241

I’m sure almost everyone already knows the answer – the tie rod end bolt can swivel into position (which is why it has a zerk fitting and grease boot). But my newbie mind did not grasp that fact right away. So I immediately started wondering what I did wrong. Remembering something I’d read on Patrick’s 427 thread, I wondered whether I’d installed the steering arms on the wrong sides. Sure enough . . . I had. The tapers were pointing the wrong way.

Warning to other first-timers like me: the FFR instructions are somewhat vague on this point. Page 47 of the manual says: “Bolt the steering arms to the spindles so the tie rod end will mount from the bottom.” What it doesn’t tell you is that the steering arm bolt holes are tapered, and you have to put the wide end of the taper down, “so the tie rod end will mount from the bottom.” Effectively, this means there is a right and a left steering arm, and it’s easy to get them switched. There’s a good discussion here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31206-Patrick-s-427-Build&p=361644&highlight=taper#post361644 (see posts # 91-95).

Of course, even after I switched the arms, I still had the “misalignment” picture above. That’s when I finally realized (Homer Simpson “Doh!”) that the tie rod end bolts can swivel. Problem solved, and finally my power steering rack was fully installed (except for torqueing to spec):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128274&d=1589325252

The rubber boots just barely clear the ground-down LCA brackets:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128275&d=1589325262 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128276&d=1589325273

I hope that’s OK because I really don’t want to remove any more metal from those brackets, which support the lower control arms.

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my power steering installation, I would be very grateful for your input.

[jrcuz]

Hi JB, I almost asked you a couple of days ago to make sure you had installed the steering arms correctly but I see you do now. I did the same thing and thanks to this forum it was pointed out and I got it corrected. Did you get the fittings for mounting the hoses to the rack from Mark? I got them and stainless braided line and the -6 AN fittings from him and made up the lines myself after watching a few youtube videos on making up AN fittings. Keep up the good work.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Hi JB, I almost asked you a couple of days ago to make sure you had installed the steering arms correctly but I see you do now. I did the same thing and thanks to this forum it was pointed out and I got it corrected. Did you get the fittings for mounting the hoses to the rack from Mark? I got them and stainless braided line and the -6 AN fittings from him and made up the lines myself after watching a few youtube videos on making up AN fittings. Keep up the good work.
JR

Ha! Thanks, JR. I think it's a hidden trap in the FFR instructions just to trip up newbies like me. But thanks to the forum, I figured it out -- no harm, no foul. I think I'll do the same as you and order all the fittings from Breeze and go with stainless braided lines.

[jrcuz]

JB, I'm very pleased with my stainless braided lines if I do say so myself. If you do use AN fittings be warned they do cross thread very easily. I had to get 1 additional fitting from Breeze. Do you have any idea of what p/s pump you will use? Mine is a KRC that Mike Forte put on my eng. I ordered more braided line from Breeze than I needed so had some left over and in my application I used 2 straight fittings and 2 90 degree fittings. Hopefully this COVID-19 will pass soon and you can maybe come and see my build and I can lend you some tools for cutting the stainless line and testing the completed lines for leaks. Also I have the EASTWOOD flaring tool for doing brake line flares Tony has it now. This got longer than I expected so I'll get off now.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

So I’m continuing to make progress . . . slowly but surely. I spent a few hours today finishing the front suspension. With everything fastened but not torqued to spec, I attempted to adjust the upper control arms to match the rough alignment recommended in the manual for power steering (high caster):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128440&d=1589599399

As many others have reported in this forum, I was not able to get the rear arm adjusted down to 7.375 inches, measured from the center of the pivot bolt to the center of the ball joint. On the passenger’s side, I could only get to 7.75 inches (although there was probably still another ¼ inch of thread left to play with if I re-centered the adjustment sleeve). On the driver’s side, I could only get to 7.4375 inches:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128441&d=1589599416 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128442&d=1589599433

Based on the recommendation of others on this forum, I decided to trim the rear adjustment sleeves to allow more leeway for this alignment. I used a hacksaw to trim about 3/8 inches from one end of each sleeve, and a Dremel sanding tool to clean up the cut:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128443&d=1589599452 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128444&d=1589599468

I used a Dremel cutting wheel to cut the bolts the same amount. On the PS, I found I needed to cut both bolts about 3/8 inches. Once I did this, I was able to get both UCAs into the recommended rough alignment for power steering.

After this, there was just one last thing I needed to get everything in the front suspension torqued to spec. Having struck out trying to rent a large torque wrench from Auto Zone, Sun Belt Rentals, etc., I finally gave in and bought a big-azz torque wrench and a 36mm socket for the hub nuts. With these, I was able to get the hub nuts torqued to 225-250 ft-lbs without too much trouble at all:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128445&d=1589599487

It’s amazing what a long lever arm can do! I now have a fully assembled and properly torqued front suspension.

[JB in NOVA]

The other thing I managed to complete is the bracket for my triple brake/clutch reservoir:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128446&d=1589599511

I won’t be going into the bracket-making business anytime soon, but I was happy with the result given that I have no experience working with metal. I formed the bracket from 16-guage plate steel (Home Depot), and I used some angle stock (Home Depot) and my bench vise as a makeshift sheet-metal brake. I watched some Youtube videos to figure out how to do it. I cut a groove on the inside of the bend to reduce the bend radius. I used a template to drill the mounting holes (this was the hardest part – It was amazingly difficult to get everything to line up, even with a template – I suspect drilling drift was the culprit). Finally, I sanded, primed, and painted the bracket. Here’s the result:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128447&d=1589599533

[JB in NOVA]

Today I installed the front rotors and brakes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128494&d=1589687147

I also attempted to center the power steering rack using the Breeze offset bushings. Per the Breeze instructions, I used a carpenter’s square to measure from the tip of each tie rod to a reference point on the frame with the rack rotated hard left and hard right. I was relieved to see I was only 1/16” off from center. I used two ¼” flathead screwdrivers, per the Breeze instructions, to try to rotate the bushings a tiny bit toward the driver’s side. Because my bushings had gone in very tight, I was wondering whether this would make centering the rack difficult. The answer is YES! Unless I’m missing some magic technique, there is no way those bushings are going to rotate using two screwdrivers. And I was getting kind of nervous putting that much muscle into it while I was lying underneath the car on jacks. So, for now, I’m going to have to live with the 1/16” offset unless I figure out some other way to correct it.

On that note, I carefully centered the rack at 1.5 turns (it came with helpful center markings) and made sure the wheels were both straight by measuring the front and back of the rotors from the frame with a carpenter’s square. In that configuration, there were approximately 3 “threads” of difference between the right and left tie rod ends. In other words, the left tie rod end had to screw in 3 extra revolutions compared to the right tie rod end to mate with the steering arms. To me (a newbie), that seems like it should be OK, but I would appreciate any different opinions others may have. Here’s the assembled front end, with the power steering rack still only wrench tight (in case I need further adjustments).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128495&d=1589687162

If anyone sees anything wrong with my setup, or has some advice about how to make the Breeze offset bushings rotate despite being tightly inserted into the housings, I would really appreciate it.

[JB in NOVA]

Next I moved on to the steering assembly. Everything was going perfectly . . . almost TOO perfectly, until I got to the final step of inserting the upper steering shaft into the lower steering shaft. The two were close, but not close enough, and I did not want to force them together:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128496&d=1589687179

I was sure I was in for hours of frustration and searching the forum for answers, but first I decided to loosen all the set screws and fittings to see if I could isolate the problem. Once everything was loosened, the whole setup seemed to slip into place nicely. I’m not sure what the culprit was, but the lesson I learned was don’t tighten the set crews until the whole steering assembly is in place. I suppose this is just common sense, but it took me a “newbie iteration” to figure it out.

Once I did this, everything aligned very nicely, and I now have smooth movement from hard left to hard right with no binding or interference.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128497&d=1589687198

I tightened everything down, except I have not yet pushed the upper steering shaft all the way into the lower steering shaft, since that seems like a fairly permanent interference fit. Before I do that, I wanted to make sure there are no obvious problems with my steering setup. If anyone sees any problems, please let me know.

I do want to confirm one other thing with the forum. The FFR manual says: “Use thread locker on all the steering shaft screws that do not have jam nuts and the adapter screws.” (p. 152). As far as I can tell, the only screws that meet this definition are the set screws before and after the flange bearing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128498&d=1589687213 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128499&d=1589687228

Are there any other screws that require thread blocker? And what are the “adapter screws”? I don’t see anything in this section of the manual described as “adapter screws.” I just want to make sure I’m not missing something.

[As an aside, I don't love having "CHINA" stamped on any part of my steering assembly. But I guess it is what it is . . .]

[jrcuz]

JB good progress. I'm with you on the China thing seems like everything I touch anymore has China on it. I spent several hours yesterday putting in heat/sound matting in the cockpit only got the rear bulkhead finished, maybe more today.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Still chipping away at the project, slowly but surely. It’s been nice having my son home helping me with the Roadster project for the past few days. Unfortunately, he was furloughed by his company up in PA due to COVID-19 (they say temporarily . . . but we’ll see). Regardless, he always has a home here.

The last couple days have been focused on the fuel tank. By way of background, I am using the FFR in-tank fuel pump/EFI option. So, I followed the Mk4 manual for the basic tank install and the more specific pump/hanger instructions that came with the FFR in-tank pump/EFI kit.

The fuel pump instructions were relatively clear, EXCEPT for the seemingly simple task of “3) install the lead wires onto the pump terminals.” That one step – deceptively easy as it sounds – ended up taking me well over an hour and a few choice words to complete. There are two wires for the in-tank pump: red and black. Each has a different sized connector—the red connector is clearly larger than the black connector. This would be a no-brainer if the terminals in the pump were similarly differentiated in size. But the terminals appear to be the same size (although it is difficult to tell because they are recessed within a housing). To be fair, I use reading glasses, so this might be clearer to others, but it was not to me. The red connector easily slips onto either terminal, but the black connector doesn’t “easily” fit onto either terminal. The instructions say nothing about this, except to warn about “making sure that proper polarity is maintained.” Gee, thanks.

Long story short, I was finally able to discern that one terminal is slightly narrower than the other (I think). And after many attempts, I was able to coax the black connector onto what is hopefully the narrower of the two terminals. I note that Patrick’s 427 thread reported a similar problem with these connectors: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31206-Patrick-s-427-Build/page4 (see posts 131-136). Only time will tell whether I got it right. With that frustrating step completed, I was able to get the pump and hanger assembled and everything installed in the tank without any further problems:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128574&d=1589860619

Next I lifted the tank in place for mounting:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128575&d=1589860637

As many on this forum have reported, the PS fuel tank strap is a bear to get into place. I bent the tank flange down at the strap locations, as recommended, which helped get the DS strap in place, but I was still about half an inch away from getting the PS strap within “bolt range.” So rather than fight a losing battle with a bolt that is basically too short, I opted to do what others on this forum have suggested: I bought longer bolts. I went with 5/8” x 3” stainless-steel bolts:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128576&d=1589860655 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128577&d=1589860673

I assume this is OK. It certainly made installation a lot easier because the nut could make engagement at a lower angle yet still tighten up to where it would have been with the FFR-supplied 2” bolts. But if anyone thinks this is ill-advised for some reason, please let me know. I realize there can be hidden issues that might not be apparent during the install phase, so I am very wary about each deviation from the FFR instructions. But this one seemed like a no-brainer.

Anyway, I got the tank installed, and I think it looks good:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128578&d=1589860692 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128579&d=1589860708

Next I’ll be tackling the fuel lines and the other components of the fuel delivery/return system . . .

[jiriza84641]

Looks great, following your build and keep posting the pictures for reference. in the stage of fitting and drilling panels.

[VAHokie]

JB, I'm very pleased with my stainless braided lines if I do say so myself. If you do use AN fittings be warned they do cross thread very easily. I had to get 1 additional fitting from Breeze. Do you have any idea of what p/s pump you will use? Mine is a KRC that Mike Forte put on my eng. I ordered more braided line from Breeze than I needed so had some left over and in my application I used 2 straight fittings and 2 90 degree fittings. Hopefully this COVID-19 will pass soon and you can maybe come and see my build and I can lend you some tools for cutting the stainless line and testing the completed lines for leaks. Also I have the EASTWOOD flaring tool for doing brake line flares Tony has it now. This got longer than I expected so I'll get off now.
JR

That Eastwood professional flaring tool is great. JB/JR happy to pass it along.

JR, getting ready to cut and fix up my braided fuel lines. Sending you a PM.

[JB in NOVA]

That Eastwood professional flaring tool is great. JB/JR happy to pass it along.


Thanks! I might take you up on that. At least I'll have a good answer for my wife when she asks, "you bought another tool?"

[jrcuz]

Hi JB, when Tony passes the Eastwood flaring tool to you I would suggest you watch the video for using it on the Eastwood site it helped me a lot.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Real work has been keeping me busy, so not a lot of progress to report. I decided to mock-up my EFI/fuel delivery system, just to make sure I understand all the fittings and have a reasonable plan for placement of the components. Almost immediately, I ran into a “newbie roadblock” when I went to mock-up the send line from the tank to the fuel filter.

The FFR EFI kit instructions (https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/EFI-fuel-system-1.pdf) say: “Use the 5/16” hose and hose clamps from the kit along with the 5/16” fuel line connector from the EFI components and 3/8” to 5/16” fuel line connector from the OEM fuel tank components to run the fuel line from the fuel tank to the fuel filter.”

Being short of attention span, my brain immediately went to the prefabricated assembly that the MK4 kit provides for the tank-to-filter connection, which is described at p. 186 of the FFR manual. It looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128707&d=1590022770

This assembly has 3/8” quick-disconnects on each end, but a 3/8” quick connect will not fit the 5/16” fuel tank sender line in the EFI setup. And I could not see any easy way to replace that connection in this pre-fab assembly with the 5/16 to 3/8 connector provided in the EFI kit. My brain just did not grasp that there could be another 5/16” hose in the Mk4 kit for the tank-to-filter connection, since this pre-fab assembly already seemed to serve that purpose. (Spoiler alert: I was wrong).

I sheepishly sent Dave at FFR an email, explaining my confusion. He responded quickly (and graciously), informing me that I’m supposed to use the #14504 connector from the OEM fuel tank components, #80281 connector from the EFI fuel system and #16914 5/16” hose and #11138 clamps from #14652 fuel line components to make the hose whatever length I require.

Yep, those parts were all in the kits as described. Thanks Dave! With that hiccup behind me, I was able to complete my mock-up. I would be very grateful if someone could let me know if this plan looks acceptable. Starting from the fuel tank sender (I will shorten this line appropriately):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128708&d=1590022806

I plan to mount the fuel filter on the cross bar in front of the trunk area:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128718&d=1590024867

I plan to run the supply and return lines over the axle, around the corner, and down the left side of the transmission tunnel:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128710&d=1590022830 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128711&d=1590022842

Finally, I plan to mount the fuel pressure regulator on the left side of the firewall, down low, near the DS footbox. (I wanted to mount on the right side to keep all fuel on that side, but I’m afraid I won’t have room after I mount my heater). Ignore the temporary hanger – I just used it mock-up the regulator at the desired height.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128712&d=1590022853

So that’s the plan. If anyone sees any problems with this plan (accessibility, interference, sheer stupidity, etc.) please let me know. I really value the wisdom of this forum.

[Railroad]

Make sure you can get to the fuel filter after the alum, suspension and body are on the car. Then make sure the clamp screw head is accessible and not on the back side of the filter.
My F5 black quick disconnects leaked. Depending on where you use them, you may want to run the pump and check for leaks, easily accessible.

[Caddy Dad]

Hi JB,
Most builds keep the fuel lines on the outside of the passenger side 4" side tube. What you have will probably work but I do know that for accessibility, avoiding heat build up and visual inspection it's best to keep fuel lines elsewhere.

Just my .02

[Mark Eaton]

I have seen lots of heated discussion about this. Most of the experienced builders would discourage running the fuel lines through the transmission tunnel. I think its a safety issue. As Caddy Dad said the rec is to run them outside the passenger side 4", further, most also recommend using hard lines when underneath the car, however, I'm pretty sure high quality braided will be just fine.

[JB in NOVA]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I'm currently rethinking my entire fuel system. In addition to the excellent comments you have provided, I also realized that I don't need an external regulator at all. I confirmed with Blueprint that the sniper EFI on the engine I ordered will self-regulate. So I'll be adding the external regulator to the growing pile of FFR components that I've purchased but will not be using. I plan to run hard lines along the outside of the PS 4" tube, as recommended.

[BradCraig]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I'm currently rethinking my entire fuel system. In addition to the excellent comments you have provided, I also realized that I don't need an external regulator at all. I confirmed with Blueprint that the sniper EFI on the engine I ordered will self-regulate. So I'll be adding the external regulator to the growing pile of FFR components that I've purchased but will not be using. I plan to run hard lines along the outside of the PS 4" tube, as recommended.

Food for thought...the Sniper internal regulator is prone to failure so some folks remove it and use an external. Since you've got it, that's an option.

[JB in NOVA]

After a few days off to enjoy the Memorial Day weekend, I got back to the Roadster project today. I think I’ve finally got my fuel system figured out, but it will involve some additional components, so I’m going to put that aside for a while. I decided to move on to the brake system.

The first thing I had to decide is how to route my three reservoir lines through the DS footbox front wall. I found some great suggestions in this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26146-Brake-line-routing-through-firewall Of those, the one I liked best was Straversi’s setup, where he routed all three hoses through the unused manual-clutch opening using a custom cover with grommets. I’m not sure how he did his, but I found the hole is not quite big enough to squeeze in three full grommets. After some experimentation, I was able to make something similar to his, although maybe not as pretty.

First, I fabricated this Mickey Mouse looking thing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129129&d=1590620533

I smoothed out all the sharp edges with a Dremel. After priming and painting, I cut three rubber grommets into arcs to cover all the inside edges:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129131&d=1590620565

Here’s the final result:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129132&d=1590620581

I like this approach because it re-purposes a hole I would have had to cover anyway. Finally, I hooked up the hoses to the master cylinders inside the footbox (the green wire is my mock-up for the front brake line):


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129133&d=1590620595

I also installed the flexible lines to the front brakes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129134&d=1590620606 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129135&d=1590620616

Next I’ll be trying my hand at installing hard brake lines. I’m sure that will be interesting . . .

[JB in NOVA]

Front Brake Hard Lines

I spent the last couple days working on the brake lines. As many have reported, it’s a tedious process, but I think I’m finally getting the hang of it. I’m using NiCopp lines, which are much easier to handle than steel. But they will kink (as I learned) if you manipulate them too much. I didn’t run into any significant problems (that I know of), but I did initially install these retainer clips for the front flexible lines the wrong way:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129304&d=1590973284

In the position shown above, the connectors were loose and seemed like they would rattle. Once I reversed the direction of the clips, everything snugged up nicely.

I ran the front brake hard lines in the conventional manner. From the middle MC to the top ¾” frame rail.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129305&d=1590973298

To the T-connector by the front left brake:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129306&d=1590973310

And then across the X-frame member to the right front brake:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129307&d=1590973322 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129308&d=1590973335

I haven’t fastened down the clamps yet, just in case someone sees something wrong with this set up. As always, I would sincerely appreciate any feedback others may have.

[JB in NOVA]

Rear Brake Hard Lines

For the rear brakes, I know a lot of people run a line from the MC down the inside front corner of the DS footbox and out the bottom to the 4” tube. But for a variety of reasons (including my lack of confidence that I won’t someday have a leak), I decided to keep the brake lines entirely out of the cockpit. I also did not like the routing recommended in the manual, i.e., down the outside front of the DS footbox. Kind of unsightly.

I saw on the "other" forum that a few people have routed their rear brake line forward and then down to the 4” tube near the front control arms. Does anyone have any experience with this approach? I know it will add length to the rear brake line run, but since I’m using coiled NiCopp, I’m not quite as worried about that. Anyway, for the time being, this is what I’ve mocked up for the long rear brake line run. From the inside master cylinder:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129309&d=1590973348

Through the slot in the front DS footbox panel to the lower ¾” frame rail:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129310&d=1590973363

Along the lower rail, beneath the T-connection for the front brakes, to the vertical frame rail near the control arms:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129311&d=1590973376

From there, I plan to do an in-line connection to a long tube that goes all the way back to the left rear brake T-connection. I’ve mocked it up, but I’m waiting for some gravel guard that I ordered before I complete this connection:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129312&d=1590973388 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129313&d=1590973401

In the meantime, I would be grateful for any comments or constructive criticism about my proposed rear brake line routing. If there is something ill-advised about it, the only thing I'm out right now is about $20 worth of NiCopp tubing. I'd rather know about potential problems now, rather than "down the road." Thanks!

[jrcuz]

Hi JB, everything looks pretty good. One thing I did was any place I had a brake line going through an aluminum panel I used a short piece of of small I.D. rubber hose to protect the line. I secured the hose with zip ties.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I tightened everything down, except I have not yet pushed the upper steering shaft all the way into the lower steering shaft, since that seems like a fairly permanent interference fit. Before I do that, I wanted to make sure there are no obvious problems with my steering setup. If anyone sees any problems, please let me know.


I'm still waiting for my gravel guard from Inline Tube to finish up the brake lines, but in the meantime I did resolve this issue with the upper steering shaft. As I explained earlier, the upper shaft did not want to slide into the lower shaft (without brute force), and I did not want to force it. After checking with FFR to make sure it was OK to sand it down, that’s what I did. It took quite a bit of sanding of the upper shaft, as well as sanding inside the lower shaft to remove what felt like a small burr. I finished with 150 grit sandpaper and then a Scotch-Brite pad, then I coated everything with machine oil. After that, I was able to get the upper shaft to slide in fairly easily. With the spring washers in place, it took some light tapping with a rubber mallet, but everything snugged up very nicely:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129422&d=1591222387

My goal for this weekend is to finish the brake lines and fill and bleed the system. I'm looking forward to this step, but I must admit I'm nervous. I've never bled brakes in my life. After a lot of reading on the forum and watching several Youtube videos, my current plan is to (1) gravity fill the system by filling the reservoirs with the caliper bleed valves open and adding fluid until I get flow (or at least drips) from all four bleed valves; and (2) working with both front and rear brakes on each side at the same time, bleed the lines by pumping the brake pedal. I am hoping to be able to prime the master cylinders using this technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBYaV7nOynE (multiple small 1/2" pumps of the brake pedal). Then I plan to use this technique to feed the bleed lines back into the reservoirs to create a "closed system" during the bleed process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4BnNA3Ep4

If anyone thinks that's a bad plan, please let me know. If that plan fails, I will move on to one of the other techniques discussed in the forum, such as pressure bleeding. But I'd like to try something simple first.

[Railroad]

I used the same method without issue. I have the Wilwood master cyl and brake calipers.
I opened all the top bleeders and kept working on something else. Soon I had a drip from one then all.
With the help of someone, we bleed all corners and never looked back.
Not for sure I understand working on 2 brakes at the same time.
Bleed the brake, farthest from the master cylinder, individually.
I did not bleed the master cylinders prior to bleeding the system. Filled the reservoirs and let gravity work, until you get ready to pump the pedal.
Probably not necessary to say, sounds like you have done your homework, but pump slow.
2 very important items, master cyl push rods must be loose, keep reservoirs topped off.

[JB in NOVA]

Railroad, thanks for the confirmation. Good to know the simple method works. Regarding this comment:


Not for sure I understand working on 2 brakes at the same time.

Not sure I completely understand it, either. From what I can tell from various comments, the balance bar can sometimes cause problems if you try to bleed one wheel at a time. But again, I'm not in a position to answer the question of why . . . or even if it's actually true. I'm just a newbie reading forum posts and hoping to get it right the first time.

[JB in NOVA]

Well, another rookie mistake to report. Because I’m preparing to fill and bleed the brake system, I decided to go back through each step of the instructions that I followed and take a new look with fresh eyes. When I re-read the instructions for the 11.65” rear brakes, I realized I had installed them on the wrong sides (i.e., upside down).

The instructions say: “When installing the caliper make sure that the brake fluid bleed screw is on the top side of the caliper.” When I originally read this instruction several weeks ago, I misinterpreted it to mean ensure the bleed screw is on the top side of the rotor, which of course it will always be because of how the caliper is positioned on the rotor. But when I thought about this more, I realized my rear brakes were upside down. I had the bleed valve on the bottom half of the caliper (i.e., below the silver coil), instead of on the top half of the caliper. You can see this from my old post:


Here’s how they look:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127103&d=1587745679 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127104&d=1587745696


Easy enough to fix by swapping the rear calipers so the bleed valve is above the silver coil.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129511&d=1591313616

Actually, I’m glad I caught this mistake for more reasons than one. Once I got the calipers on the correct sides, the inside edges of the calipers were even closer to the rotor than they were before – something I was already concerned about. That’s when I re-read the instructions and figured out how to solve this problem.

The instructions say: “Make sure the caliper bracket is centered over the rotor then check to see if a spacer is needed between the caliper bracket and the caliper mount or between the two brackets.” Doh! I honestly don’t know how I overlooked that last little bit before. I removed the outer caliper bracket on each side, installed a washer between the two mounting brackets on each of the four mounting bolts, and now the rotors are very nicely centered in the calipers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129512&d=1591313630 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129513&d=1591313650

The axle turns much easier now, and I feel much better about the whole rear brake set up. Whew! It’s amazing how easy it is to miss little things that are right there in the instructions. It's like you see them, but you don't "see" them.

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my setup, please let me know.

[Railroad]

Good job. I had an old guy, once tell me, if you catch it yourself, it is not an error.

Might put a rag or something under each brake, while waiting on the gravity feed drip. Do not want to mess up that nice floor finish.

[Railroad]

I do not know if this will apply to your build,,,,, on the steering shaft pillar bearing,,,,I had to put 2 or 3 washers under each side. As I rotated the steering wheel, I could feel the joints go through a notch feeling. I think my foot box support bearing is mounted on the outside of the foot box.
If your steering wheel turns without change in the resistance, please ignore.

[JB in NOVA]

Brake Line Finishing Touches

I spent the last few days finishing up the brake system, and I think I’m finally done! First, I took care of some odds and ends with the brake lines themselves.

For the run from the MC to the front left front brake along the top frame rail, I was worried about having the brake line flush against the rail because I thought it might interfere with the body when installed. From what I can tell, the fiberglass body rests on top of and along the inside edge of the top rail in the engine compartment. To avoid any interference, I made a couple brackets to push the brake line away from the rail:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129612&d=1591565420

I widened the notch in the front footbox wall where the front brake line passes through. For now, I’m using some tubing to protect the brake line in that area. I’ll probably cut a longer piece and zip tie on either end, as jrcuz suggested.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129613&d=1591565434

I fashioned a pass-through plate to block off the horizontal slot in the front footbox wall where I brought the rear brake line forward along the lower rail:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129614&d=1591565446

Finally, I installed stainless steel gravel guard on the long run along the 4” tube and up toward the rear T-junction:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129615&d=1591565460 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129616&d=1591565474

I know some folks have said gravel guard traps salt and grime and could do more harm than good. But since I’m using NiCopp, which is corrosion resistant, I’m not quite as worried about that. And having the gravel guard gives me peace of mind that something won’t jump up and dent the soft NiCopp line on the bottom of the car.

With all the brake lines installed and tightened down, I was ready to fill and bleed the system . . .

[JB in NOVA]

Brake System Fill and Bleed

My original plan was to gravity feed the system, but I quickly realized that wouldn’t work because I have a portion of the front brake lines that is almost level with the top of the reservoirs. I filled the reservoirs and allowed them to fill the master cylinders. Immediately, I had leaks from the plastic inlet adapters on both master cylinders. I removed the adapters and found the culprit:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129618&d=1591565506 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129617&d=1591565491

The O-ring was sitting on top of the inlet port, instead of around the indentation in the middle of the inlet port body. Because the plastic adapter is constrained with a circular clamp, having the O-ring at the top of the body does nothing at all. As I recall, these plastic adapters were already installed on the master cylinders when they arrived in the kit, and I had left them in place assuming they were installed correctly. I was wrong!

For any future newbies like me, take heed when you read page 132 of the FFR instruction manual. It simply says: “Put the plastic angled inlet adapter with hose clamp on the master cylinders. Use a 6mm socket and ratchet to tighten the hose clamp.” It mentions nothing about an O-ring, and it certainly mentions nothing about the O-ring being in the wrong place in the kit, as shipped. You have to remove the plastic adapter, put that O-ring around the indention in the middle, and then reattach the adapter.

Once I did that, the MC leaks magically stopped. Next, I worked my way around to each caliper, attached a nylon hose to the bleed valve with the other end submerged in some brake fluid in a plastic bottle, and pumped the brakes until I got flow. I didn’t worry about air bubbles at this point – I just wanted to get the system basically filled. My tiny reservoirs made this process a little tedious. They empty out in just four pumps of the brake pedal, so I had to constantly refill to make sure I didn’t air-lock the master cylinders. Anyway, this process went reasonably well, and I soon had filled brake lines.

To my surprise, I had only one leak (from the rear T-junction), which I easily fixed by tightening the compression nut. Honestly, with all the bending and flaring, and fitting and refitting, etc., I expected much worse.

With my system now filled and leak-free, I did the final bleed process. Because I was working alone, I followed this technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4BnNA3Ep4. Basically, as I bled each brake, I ran a length of clear nylon tubing from the bleeder into the reservoir. Doing that from the rear brakes required several feet of tubing. Then I just pumped the brakes repeatedly until there were no more air bubbles. This method is especially good for very small reservoirs like mine. Instead of having to constantly worry about the reservoir running dry, the fluid just recirculates from the brake to the reservoir, and you can pump the brakes as much as you want until you are convinced there is no air in the system.

After that, my brakes were firm and felt great – no sponginess whatsoever. I confirmed by hand that they are stopping the rotors. So, for now, it looks like I have brakes!

[jrcuz]

Well done JB!
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Just one small detail to report today. As much as I felt great about finishing my brake system, I was still bothered by this one question that I never received an answer to:

The 2013 instructions that I followed for the 11.65” FFR rear brake assembly did not mention installing anti-chatter clips. But the box with the brake pads included two pairs of clips, which I assume are anti-chatter clips:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127051&d=1587701395

I could not figure out an obvious way that these would fit into the FFR 11.65” rear brake calipers, so I left them out, consistent with the 2013 instructions that I am following. IS THIS OKAY?

I scoured the forums and found answers on both sides. Some posts said the anti-rattle clips are not needed for the FFR-supplied 11.65" rear brakes, but others said the opposite. Finally, a friend of mine (much more experienced with building cars than me) read my build thread and said, oh yeah, you definitely need those anti-rattle clips. So, I sent Dave at FFR an email inquiry, and, as always, he replied quickly and graciously. Here was his response: "The anti rattle clips should be in the box with the rear pads and they install as shown [see below]. They don’t fit our bracket the best so you may want to bend the spring part of the shim so it puts less tension on the bracket."

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129735&d=1591757381

The statement that “they don’t fit our bracket the best” is an understatement. They don’t fit worth a damn! The picture above is somewhat artificial because you can’t install the brake pads on just the upper half the caliper before it is installed on the lower half. And once you remove the brake pads, the anti-rattle clips simply fall out. Basically, there is nothing holding them in place, other than the brake pads themselves.

Not complaining here, just pointing out to other newbies like me that there’s more to story than the FFR instructions indicate. Per Dave’s suggestion, I put the clips in a vice and I bent the upper portion way back to better contour to the caliper body. Even then, the clips were basically just floating in place, with nothing to grab on to. I solved this problem by zip-tying the clips to the calipers while I installed the inside brake pad (which secures the clips in place) and then cutting the zip ties to install the outside brake pad:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129736&d=1591757398 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129737&d=1591757421
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129738&d=1591757459 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129739&d=1591757472

While I was at it, I added some anti-squeal compound to the back of the pads and re-lubricated all the moving parts.

I'm pretty sure there's some better technique than what I employed. In fact, I apologize if this discussion is “old hat” to more experienced builders, but this is the type of thing that trips up newbies like me and causes needless stress, especially when it concerns the brakes.

Anyway, my brake system is now buttoned up, I'm sleeping well at night, and my next step will be the fuel system . . .

[JB in NOVA]

All my fuel line components have arrived, so I plan to start that project tomorrow. In the meantime, I fitted up the DS footbox floor and inside wall. I have a quick question about the inside wall. Here’s the basic fit-up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129825&d=1591925391

I think I’ve got this fitted properly, but the interface between the inside vertical wall and the transmission tunnel vertical wall seems a bit out of whack. There’s about a 1/2” gap between the two panels that I don’t remember when they were originally assembled:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129824&d=1591925375

To be clear, I ‘m sure I can force these two together and rivet in place, but before I do that, I want to make sure I don’t have these panels positioned incorrectly. Here’s a shot inside the footbox, with the DS inside vertical wall dropping down forward of the tab on the DS cockpit floor:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129823&d=1591925364

Is that right, or should it go inside the footbox? Also, any advice on the gap between the vertical wall and the transmission tunnel vertical wall.

[jiriza84641]

All my fuel line components have arrived, so I plan to start that project tomorrow. In the meantime, I fitted up the DS footbox floor and inside wall. I have a quick question about the inside wall. Here’s the basic fit-up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129825&d=1591925391

I think I’ve got this fitted properly, but the interface between the inside vertical wall and the transmission tunnel vertical wall seems a bit out of whack. There’s about a 1/2” gap between the two panels that I don’t remember when they were originally assembled:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129824&d=1591925375

To be clear, I ‘m sure I can force these two together and rivet in place, but before I do that, I want to make sure I don’t have these panels positioned incorrectly. Here’s a shot inside the footbox, with the DS inside vertical wall dropping down forward of the tab on the DS cockpit floor:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129823&d=1591925364

Is that right, or should it go inside the footbox? Also, any advice on the gap between the vertical wall and the transmission tunnel vertical wall.

JB, I too have that same gap, I am thinking of using a tool from Harbor freight that looks like a flat vise grip, time number #98728 (from EdwardBs post) to bend the trans vertical tunnel wall a bit. but not sure yet. ill finish the Front suspension when my pats arrive this weekend.

Ill follow since you are a bit ahead of my build.

[JB in NOVA]

JB, I too have that same gap, I am thinking of using a tool from Harbor freight that looks like a flat vise grip, time number #98728 (from EdwardBs post) to bend the trans vertical tunnel wall a bit. but not sure yet. ill finish the Front suspension when my pats arrive this weekend.

Ill follow since you are a bit ahead of my build.

jiriza, thanks for the tip. It looks like I'll be purchasing that tool since I have not come up with any other solution or explanation for this gap. In the scheme of things, it's not that big a deal, but most of the other MK4 panels have lined up perfectly, so I'm a little hesitant to bend this panel into place unless it's absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, it's looking like it's necessary.

[JB in NOVA]

After abandoning the idea of running braided fuel lines through the transmission tunnel (per FFR EFI kit instructions), I decided to run 3/8” NiCopp supply and return hard lines along the PS 4” tube. Thanks again, FFR forum, for all your advice on this topic! As with everything else in this build, running the fuel lines was a learning experience, but I “got it done.”

First, although 3/8” NiCopp is easy to bend compared to steel, it is still (obviously) not as easy to bend as the 3/16” brake lines I had gotten used to working with. So there was a learning curve in figuring out what radiuses I could use with the thicker material. Once I got that figured out, the installation went relatively smoothly, with one minor hiccup.

I had originally planned to run the supply and return lines horizontally side-by-side, similar to what is shown in the FFR manual (see p. 189):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129942&d=1592110754

My plan was to secure the inside line using the FFR-supplied clamps, then use these separators from ESpeeder: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L49Y9LM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to separate the lines, and then to secure the outside line at the beginning and end of the run to keep everything horizontal. To put it mildly, that plan failed miserably. It looked terrible, and the outside line did not want to stay horizontal.

So I changed plans. I aligned the supply and return lines vertically (as many others have done) and used the same ESpeeder clamps to keep them separated. The clamps contoured very nicely with the round 4” tube, but I needed a way to secure them. I drilled the clamps with a ¼” hole, and then tapped the 4” tube to receive a ¼” screw. I used ¼ X 1” stainless steel socket cap screws to tighten the clamps to the 4” tube. They snugged up very nicely. These pictures show the 3/8” NiCopp lines covered by stainless steel gravel guard and secured with the ESpeeder clamps:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129943&d=1592110768 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129944&d=1592110786

[JB in NOVA]

For completeness sake, here is my entire fuel set up. Tank to filter:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129945&d=1592110800

Filter to 3/8” NiCopp hard line:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129946&d=1592110813

Hard lines along the PS 4” tube:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129947&d=1592110827

Terminations in the engine compartment:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129948&d=1592110843

Vent to the charcoal can:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129949&d=1592110856

As always, I welcome any constructive feedback from the forum. If I’ve done something ill-advised (or downright stupid), please let me know. This is literally my first time running fuel lines, so I'm almost certain I've made a mistake somewhere.

[jiriza84641]

jiriza, thanks for the tip. It looks like I'll be purchasing that tool since I have not come up with any other solution or explanation for this gap. In the scheme of things, it's not that big a deal, but most of the other MK4 panels have lined up perfectly, so I'm a little hesitant to bend this panel into place unless it's absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, it's looking like it's necessary.

JB, I flipped my panels to match yours. Doing so, it corrected the gap.

[toadster]

My plan was to secure the inside line using the FFR-supplied clamps, then use these separators from ESpeeder: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L49Y9LM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to separate the lines, and then to secure the outside line at the beginning and end of the run to keep everything horizontal. To put it mildly, that plan failed miserably. It looked terrible, and the outside line did not want to stay horizontal.

So I changed plans. I aligned the supply and return lines vertically (as many others have done) and used the same ESpeeder clamps to keep them separated. The clamps contoured very nicely with the round 4” tube, but I needed a way to secure them. I drilled the clamps with a ¼” hole, and then tapped the 4” tube to receive a ¼” screw. I used ¼ X 1” stainless steel socket cap screws to tighten the clamps to the 4” tube. They snugged up very nicely. These pictures show the 3/8” NiCopp lines covered by stainless steel gravel guard and secured with the ESpeeder clamps:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129943&d=1592110768 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129944&d=1592110786

really diggin the look of your lines - how much gravel guard did you end up using?

[JB in NOVA]

really diggin the look of your lines - how much gravel guard did you end up using?

Toadster, I got it done with a single 16-foot roll from Inline Tube. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KYSP3HF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[JB in NOVA]

I haven’t had much time to work on the Roadster this week, but I did manage to get the Breeze forward battery tray installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130128&d=1592435553

This kit is very high quality, and it fit perfectly into place – impressively so. The instructions were also easy to follow. One thing I learned during this install is that stainless steel rivets are much harder to pull by hand than aluminum ones. Holy cow! After pulling three 3/16 inch SS rivets with a manual rivet tool, I felt like I’d just pitched 9 innings and needed a compression sleeve. Anyway, I got it done, and I confirmed that a size 51 battery will fit perfectly into this tray:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130129&d=1592435565

The other thing I did (OK, you can file this under “Overkill, Newbie”) was make a crude replica of the FFR firewall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130130&d=1592435580 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130131&d=1592435592

The reason I did this is that I am noodling options for how to mount my heater/defroster and my FFR dash with glovebox. My current plan is to build an aluminum box to bump the heater a few inches into the engine compartment. But before I do that, I wanted to mock it up with a “practice” firewall to see how it looks. More on that later . . .

It was nice seeing the dash in place for the first time:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130132&d=1592435602

[Caddy Dad]

Have you thought about using the Firewall forward from FF Metals?
http://www.ffmetal.com/

I installed and have tons of room for a heater, glove box etc

[JB in NOVA]

Caddy Dad,

I did think about using the FF Metal forward firewall. The website says it moves it up 1.5" -- but is that enough to fit in the FFR heater and the FFR glove box? My measurements seem to show I would need 2.5" to avoid interference. Can you post a picture of yours?

[jrcuz]

Hi JB, I don't have a glove box but I did install the FFMetal firewall forward. I can't check measurements right now (body is on). If I remember correctly space is very limited. 130172
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Caddy Dad and jrcuz, thanks for your input! As FFR advises on its options list, the glove box option is not directly compatible with the heater/defroster option. Basically, they take up the same space between the firewall and the dash. As far as I can tell, there are three basic options for making this work:

(1) Cut 2.5 inches off the back of the glove box, making it essentially a “faux” glove box.
(2) Use a FF Metal “forward” firewall (moves it forward 1.5 inches), and cut 1 inch off the back of the glove box.
(3) Build a box to bump the heater forward 2.5 inches into the engine compartment, and leave the glove box unaltered.

Although I'm still considering options (including the FFR forward firewall), I decided to mock up option #3 to see how it looks and to work out any bugs. As I mentioned above, I first made a replica of the FFR firewall to practice with. Then I used my meager sheet metal skills to build a crude 9.125” x 6.5” x 2.5” box with 1” rivet flanges:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130162&d=1592501136

After separating the heater motor from the core, I cut the holes for re-attaching them through the front of the box, using the template supplied in the FFR heater/defroster instructions. I’m not sure why, but the template holes did not line up very well with my actual heater, so I ended up having to modify them quite a bit.

Here’s the box with the two parts of the heater installed on both sides:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130163&d=1592501149 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130164&d=1592501160

Finally, I cut a 9.375” x 6.75” hole in my “practice” firewall and attached the box with the flanges on the inside. Here’s how it looks mocked up with the heater installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130165&d=1592501175 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130166&d=1592501189

I confirmed with Blueprint that this will not interfere with my small block 347 engine. And with the glove box installed, there is no interference behind the dash:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130167&d=1592501201 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130168&d=1592501215

Again, this is just a mock-up. If I decide to go this route, I will probably have the box made by a local sheet metal shop (they’ll do a much better job than I could ever do) and then either paint or powder coat it to match my real firewall. On the other hand, if I can squeeze everything in using the FFR forward firewall, I might go that route instead.

[jrcuz]

JB, Your skills with metal are NOT meager. Even if you decide to have a shop make it for you at least you know it will work. You may want to go with the FFMetal firewall forward because it is much stiffer or maybe brace the FFR firewall.
JR

[ArcticAZ]

That's looking good. I would still be concerned about clearance though. My heater installed in the standard location has less than two inches clearance from the blower housing to the 427w valve cover. Granted, a 347 has lower deck height which should help.
The other concern is the hose connections. I cut off the threaded fittings and rolled beads to clamp the hoses directly which adds a lot more clearance and allows more options for routing.

[JB in NOVA]

Not much going on with the Roadster project this week, except I ended up switching out my power steering rack. As I mentioned earlier, I decided mid-project to install power steering, so I bought a replacement PS rack for a 1982-93 Mustang. Specifically, it was a new Cardone 97203F PS rack from Rock Auto. Even though the new rack was $120 more than a refurbished rack, I figured it would save me headaches going forward. (Spoiler alert: it didn't). I also bought the Breeze offset bushings and the FFR inner tie rod extenders.

As I mentioned earlier, the first problem I had was getting the Breeze offset bushings to fit, although I eventually got them in with a lot of work. Then, when I went to install the FFR inner tie-rod extenders, they didn’t fit . . . at all. After taking off one of the boots and the inner tie rod, I found that the remaining piece is female, not male, and it’s a completely different size bolt than what the FFR tie rod extender is configured for:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130467&d=1593043135

I contacted Dave at FFR, who informed me that some OEM replacement racks for the 82-93 are configured differently and will not accept the FFR inner tie rod extenders. Apparently, the Cardone 97203F rack falls into this category. I asked whether I could “get away” with not installing the tie rod extenders, and he said, “not really.” I recall Mark at Breeze saying the same thing. The bump steer is apparently pretty bad without these. I spent some time looking for inner tie rod extenders that would fit my Cordone PS rack, and I did find some that cost over $100.

At that point, I threw in the towel and just ordered a FFR PS rack, which is already configured with the tie rod extenders. It arrived today, and what a difference between the two racks! First, just from looking at it, you can tell it’s higher quality than the Cordone unit I purchased:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130468&d=1593043154

Most of the FFR rack is powder coated (unlike the Cordone unit), and the hydraulic lines are heavier and better looking than the ones on the Cordone unit. The Breeze offset bushings slid in with no problem at all, and the whole rack was easy to install. I had the whole thing done in less than an hour, including centering the rack and torqueing everything to spec:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130469&d=1593043165

So here’s my $230 lesson for future newbies like me: just buy the FFR power steering rack!

[jrcuz]

JB, any chance of returning the Cardone rack? If you are going to make your p/s lines check with Breeze, Mark has everything to do it including the fittings to connect the AN fittings to your rack. Too bad we are in lock down, I have the cutter to cut braided stainless line to size. It wasn't cheap. I got it a Home Depot for I think around $70. They are made for cutting electrical cable by Klein Tools catalog no. 63035. There are plenty of videos on you tube on making up AN fittings. If you go this route I learned the hard way how easy it is to cross thread the fittings during assembly of the fittings. Have fun.
JR

[JohnK]

Hey JB. Sorry about the headaches with the PS rack. The FFR rack does look to be much better quality. Not sure where FFR gets their PS rack from, but it looks similar to the Unisteer PS rack I bought for my project, which is also a quality piece and also came with the extenders already in it. Glad you finally got it all sorted out. Your project is really coming along nicely!

-John

[Caddy Dad]

JB, any chance of returning the Cardone rack? If you are going to make your p/s lines check with Breeze, Mark has everything to do it including the fittings to connect the AN fittings to your rack. Too bad we are in lock down, I have the cutter to cut braided stainless line to size. It wasn't cheap. I got it a Home Depot for I think around $70. They are made for cutting electrical cable by Klein Tools catalog no. 63035. There are plenty of videos on you tube on making up AN fittings. If you go this route I learned the hard way how easy it is to cross thread the fittings during assembly of the fittings. Have fun.
JR

X2 on getting the power steering hose set up from Breeze. Kit has everything you need already cut to length.
Cheers!

[nuhale]

I went with the new BBB / VISION-OE N1010106 (N101-0106) from Rock auto. I too had to clean up the adapters to get the breeze aluminum bushings to fit. A little emory cloth on a drill bit to hone it a bit worked like a charm. That really stinks on the ends. Won't be the last 2 steps forward 3 back you will have in your build process. :).

I had a big issue where I had a complete failure of my PS rack on first start. My theory is that the rack sat for almost 10 months before seeing fluid and had a driveshaft seal fail which caused some really loud colorful words barely heard over the rumble of the engine. Had to pull it completely out and replace (Rock Auto took care of it via warranty). Working great now in my go-cart mode.

I too worked with Mark Reynolds at Breeze on the hoses/fittings. I was going to just pick most of it up at Summit and would have been cheaper (not much) but Mark is awesome/been a great support in my build process and want to give him business where I can. I have more required as I went with a hydroboost power brake setup from Mike Forte. The quality of the fittings/hose was great and he spent time going through what would be needed. I used a angle grinder with cutting wheel to cut the tube. Worked pretty good. I recommend getting a pressure testing set (I have mine and would consider sending) that cap off each hose and one end has adapter to fill with compressed air. Dunk in a tote with water and look for bubbles. Better find it here than with the fluid leaking all over the place.

[toadster]

Not much going on with the Roadster project this week, except I ended up switching out my power steering rack. As I mentioned earlier, I decided mid-project to install power steering, so I bought a replacement PS rack for a 1982-93 Mustang. Specifically, it was a new Cardone 97203F PS rack from Rock Auto. Even though the new rack was $120 more than a refurbished rack, I figured it would save me headaches going forward. (Spoiler alert: it didn't). I also bought the Breeze offset bushings and the FFR inner tie rod extenders.

Most of the FFR rack is powder coated (unlike the Cordone unit), and the hydraulic lines are heavier and better looking than the ones on the Cordone unit. The Breeze offset bushings slid in with no problem at all, and the whole rack was easy to install. I had the whole thing done in less than an hour, including centering the rack and torqueing everything to spec:

So here’s my $230 lesson for future newbies like me: just buy the FFR power steering rack!

great job! I changed up my steering as well when my epowersteering setup wouldn't fit in the engine bay with the Coyote, so i went with the KRC FFR setup myself!
https://cobradreams.com/2020/06/08/installing-the-power-steering-rack-finally-done/

I did get the Breeze offset rack, Breeze PS lines, and KRC pressure adjuster (https://amzn.to/2NtYQfp), also suggest installing the Moog ES2150RL (https://amzn.to/2ZbFxNg) tie-rod ends as they're much beefier than the FFR ones - cheap upgrade IMHO

[jrcuz]

JB, here is the info on the pressure tester for the -6 AN lines. I think Va. Hokie got his at Summit.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Everyone, thanks for all your suggestions! This is what I love about the forum, I get to benefit from the wisdom of others that I actually don't possess myself. I just sent a request to Mark Reynolds at Breeze for the PS connection kit, which is a no brainer for me. So far, I've been very happy with all of Mark's products, so I'm confident this will also be an easy turn-key solution, which is exactly what I'm looking for at this point. For the 6AN fuel lines to the engine, I'm still noodling options, but I really appreciate the suggestions, especially about the pressure tester. I've got just the pool to test my lines in:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130537&d=1593141049


JB, any chance of returning the Cardone rack? If you are going to make your p/s lines check with Breeze, Mark has everything to do it including the fittings to connect the AN fittings to your rack. Too bad we are in lock down, I have the cutter to cut braided stainless line to size. It wasn't cheap. I got it a Home Depot for I think around $70. They are made for cutting electrical cable by Klein Tools catalog no. 63035. There are plenty of videos on you tube on making up AN fittings. If you go this route I learned the hard way how easy it is to cross thread the fittings during assembly of the fittings. Have fun.
JR

jrcuz, I may have to plan a stop in Stafford next time I'm on my way to Virginia Beach -- I'd love to see your project and get some pointers.

[jrcuz]

JB, you are welcome any time, I'll even try to get a couple local owners to drop by.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I took some time off for a family vacation and then got very busy at work, but now I’m back to the MK4 project. Last week, my Blueprint 347 EFI engine arrived via Fed Ex:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131460&d=1594262255

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131461&d=1594262269

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131462&d=1594262288

I can’t wait to get this beast into its new home!

[JB in NOVA]

I’ve spent the last couple days getting my dashboard figured out and the Russ Thompson turn signal mod aligned and installed. I’m using an under-dash support panel from Mike Everson, so my first step was to trim that panel to fit. I found I needed to cut some slots to accommodate the steering column support plates, along with a few other trims here and there:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131464&d=1594262319

Once I got the under-dash support panel cleco’d in place, I was able to get my dash into the proper position to rough-fit the turn signal mounting hardware and tube:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131465&d=1594262336

I widened the hole in the dashboard to accommodate the turn signal tube and wires. I am using a polished bezel from Mike Everson, which also made a good template for the cut. I used a Dremel cutting bit, which did the job (but kind of messy with the vinyl and plastic dash – there’s probably a better way to make this cut):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131466&d=1594262345

With that, I was able to get everything mocked up into position:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131467&d=1594262358

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131468&d=1594262371

Per Russ’s suggestion, I cut 3/8” off the rear end of the turn signal tube, to put the turn signal mechanism closer to the dash:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131469&d=1594262384

After verifying that I still had smooth steerage from full left to full right, I drilled three 5/16” holes and secured the new RT mounting bracket to the steering column support plate:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131470&d=1594262396

Overall, I found the Russ Thompson turn signal modification relatively easy to install (mechanically). Soon, I’ll be tackling the wiring, so I will report back if I come across any difficulties.

[jrcuz]

You've been busy JB, looking good.
JR

[GTBradley]

I can tell you from my experience that you can do the full-depth glovebox and the heater. I used the firewall forward mod, but because of that I had to fabricate a bracket because it put the heater too close the the Coyote I used. Find out where other builders engines of the same type mount in relation to the firewall and you'll know if there is going to be a conflict. If there is, the only thing you need to do is mount the heater further into the cockpit. I mounted my heater far enough inside the firewall forward to snug it up against the back of the glovebox. This had the added benefit of a more solid feel in the plastic glovebox. I wrote mine up starting at #254, if you're interested.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109083&d=1560897252 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109084&d=1560897259

[glastron351]

Yes Looks good! Nice work! I like the trim ring on your RT Signal light column....been looking for something like that. Now I know where to go, Thanks!

As far as your heater/glovebox install here's what I did. I purchased a sheet of aluminum from a sign company (.090 as opposed to .040) and used this to fabricate a new firewall. A lot stronger than the original. I also moved the firewall forward approx. 1.75". Watch for Valve cover/heater core connection/heater fan interference depending upon your motor combination. With a taller deck height on a 351w it was tight. I wanted to leave at least 1" to allow for engine movement etc. I then cut out about a 1-1.25" section of the glovebox compartment depth and refastened the back using 2 part epoxy. This left me with a shallow glove box but enough room for registration, wallet, phone and few other small items. It's a tight space but do-able. It meant I didn't have to move my heater core into the engine bay (as I was limited with space there as it was). Just the way that worked for me but lots of great ideas from all the forum members.. Good luck!

131487
131488
131489

[JB in NOVA]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I sincerely appreciate the advice. My slow but (un)steady progress continues. Today I installed my new firewall with a heater “bump out” modification. To back up a bit, after mocking up this potential modification last month, I decided the FFR firewall was too flimsy to support the heater motor. So I purchased a .090” firewall from ffmetal.com. It arrived quickly, and it feels so much sturdier than the FFR firewall – and it’s a perfect fit. Meanwhile, I asked a local sheet metal shop to replicate my 9” x 6.5” x 2.5” box with 1” rivet flanges, and it came back looking really nice. I cut all the appropriate holes and sent everything out for powder coating.

Here’s the box, which oddly looks like some sort of robot emoji:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131513&d=1594348739

I’ll call him Mr. Roboto.

I riveted Mr. Roboto to the FFmetal firewall, then I glued my original FFR firewall (trimmed appropriately to sit flush with Mr. Roboto’s flanges) to the back of the FFmetal firewall to create a 0.13” composite firewall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131514&d=1594348758

I went ahead and drilled the three 1 ¼” holes that I’ll need for the wiring harnesses while I was at it. Here’s the new extra-thick firewall with heater bump-out box riveted in place:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131515&d=1594348780 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131516&d=1594348803

You can see the sandwich structure here. This firewall is sturdy!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131517&d=1594348842

You can also see the Mike Everson under-dash support panel here, which I’ve still got cleco’d in place. The large round tubes are the heater vents. The small stubs on the right are rivnuts for attaching the dash from underneath. My plan is to have a fully removable dash, so I am looking into the drop-down mounting tabs that others have suggested. I'm OK with with the screw heads showing on the dash -- I just want to make sure none of them are "captured" by the body once mounted.

Next up is wiring!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131518&d=1594348859

But I’ve got a 1-week sailing trip starting on Monday, so wiring will probably have to wait until later this month.

[BadAsp427]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I sincerely appreciate the advice. My slow but (un)steady progress continues. Today I installed my new firewall with a heater “bump out” modification. To back up a bit, after mocking up this potential modification last month, I decided the FFR firewall was too flimsy to support the heater motor. So I purchased a .090” firewall from ffmetal.com. It arrived quickly, and it feels so much sturdier than the FFR firewall – and it’s a perfect fit. Meanwhile, I asked a local sheet metal shop to replicate my 9” x 6.5” x 2.5” box with 1” rivet flanges, and it came back looking really nice. I cut all the appropriate holes and sent everything out for powder coating.

Here’s the box, which oddly looks like some sort of robot emoji:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131513&d=1594348739

I’ll call him Mr. Roboto.

I riveted Mr. Roboto to the FFmetal firewall, then I glued my original FFR firewall (trimmed appropriately to sit flush with Mr. Roboto’s flanges) to the back of the FFmetal firewall to create a 0.13” composite firewall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131514&d=1594348758

I went ahead and drilled the three 1 ¼” holes that I’ll need for the wiring harnesses while I was at it. Here’s the new extra-thick firewall with heater bump-out box riveted in place:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131515&d=1594348780 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131516&d=1594348803

You can see the sandwich structure here. This firewall is sturdy!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131517&d=1594348842

You can also see the Mike Everson under-dash support panel here, which I’ve still got cleco’d in place. The large round tubes are the heater vents. The small stubs on the right are rivnuts for attaching the dash from underneath. My plan is to have a fully removable dash, so I am looking into the drop-down mounting tabs that others have suggested. I'm OK with with the screw heads showing on the dash -- I just want to make sure none of them are "captured" by the body once mounted.

Next up is wiring!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131518&d=1594348859

But I’ve got a 1-week sailing trip starting on Monday, so wiring will probably have to wait until later this month.

I have to say that the "Mr.Roboto" is ingenious... but, I really fear you may have a problem with engine fitment. I have the exact same motor as you. Here are a couple photos that show my heater mounted on the standard position firewall and it's proximity to the engine. in the 2nd photo, you can see the rear of the PS valve cover and the heater core tubes. I have both the heater and the glove box. I did modify the glove box however. Hope this is not too late.

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[jrcuz]

JB, nice work. In the past a few builders have reported that the heater core copper tubing was not soldered properly and leaked, if you can run water through it to test it might be worth it.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I have to say that the "Mr.Roboto" is ingenious... but, I really fear you may have a problem with engine fitment. I have the exact same motor as you. Here are a couple photos that show my heater mounted on the standard position firewall and it's proximity to the engine. in the 2nd photo, you can see the rear of the PS valve cover and the heater core tubes. I have both the heater and the glove box. I did modify the glove box however. Hope this is not too late.

131520 131521

BadAsp427, yeah I'm certainly nervous about that. Before I moved forward with this plan, I actually sent my dimensions and pictures of my mock-up to Blueprint, and they said it would be fine clearance-wise. But looking at your pictures, I see how tight it's going to be. At a minimum, looks like I might have to shorten the copper tubing and have them make a sharp outboard turn as soon as they enter the engine compartment.

At this point, I'll hope for the best, and if it doesn't work out, I'll end up with a mysterious blanked-off box that will be a conversation piece. :rolleyes:

[JB in NOVA]

Well, my sailing trip fell through, which is a real bummer. I was really looking forward to spending some time on the open water. The only upside is that I had time to work on the Roadster project this weekend. First, I installed the DS inner footbox panels:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131693&d=1594602982

I patched some of the bigger gaps inside the footbox using thin aluminum pieces and caulk. I don’t want to depend entirely on the insulating material to keep heat and water out. Hopefully this will help a bit:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131694&d=1594602997

Next, I installed the fuse panel. I found I had to trim a bit from the mounting plate to get it to fit the fuse panel properly – not sure if FFR has changed something recently. You can see the mismatch here, especially on the left-hand side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131695&d=1594603010

Not a big deal, I just made a few cuts with my Dremel tool, and everything fit perfectly. I installed it in the FFR-recommended location under the master cylinders, but I added a support member for the front, outboard corner, as others have suggested:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131696&d=1594603022

Next, I did a rough install of the Ron Francis wiring harness. For me, wiring an entire car is a fairly intimidating task, so I’m trying to take it slowly and methodically. I’m sure I will make mistakes, but I’d like to avoid any catastrophic mistakes, so please let me know if you see anything going seriously awry. Because I’m running a Holley Sniper EFI, I decided to drill three 1 ¼ inch holes in the firewall as suggested in the RF instructions (although I understand It’s possible to get away with just two). As currently roughed in, I’ve got the main harness on the passenger’s side, the sending harness in the middle, and the rear harness on the driver’s side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131697&d=1594603031

I’ve got the front harness coming through the DS footbox front wall and running along the outside of the upper frame rail, per the RF instructions:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131698&d=1594603047

So far, I’ve only wired the headlight switch and the ignition switch; otherwise everything is still unconnected:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131699&d=1594603064

I have a couple questions for the forum, which I’ll put in a separate post.

[JB in NOVA]

At this point, I have two wiring questions for the forum.

First Question: Impact Switch. Because I’m using an under-dash support panel, I can’t really mount the impact switch on the 2x2 tube as recommended in the RF manual. I understand it can be mounted virtually anywhere on the chassis, as long as it is: (1) upright, and (2) easily accessible in case it needs to be reset. I’m considering mounting it on the inside DS footbox panel, as shown by the “?” symbol here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131700&d=1594603080

I figure, if need be, I could remove the access cover from the top of the footbox to reset the impact switch. Are there are any downsides to this location, or reasons I should consider a different location for the impact switch?

Second Question: Holley Sniper Wiring. I’ve reviewed Papa’s excellent summary of how to wire the Holley Sniper EFI system: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30990-Wiring-Harness-GPS-Gauges-EFI-Engine . For completeness sake, here is his response to another builder’s question:




I assume, please tell me otherwise, that your BPE provided EFI is the Holley Sniper? If so, this is very easy to get wired up.

1. Run the main power (red) and ground (black) wires directly to the battery
2. Connect the pink keyed +12v wire to any +12v keyed source (must have +12v when key is on and when cranking)
3. Connect the blue fuel pump control wire to your fuel pump (+) wire (I did this by de-pinning the fuel pump wire in the dash harness)
4. Connect the fan control (light blue) wire to one of the two green fan wires available (one near the top of the engine and the other at the bottom of the radiator).
5. Connect the coil wire (yellow) from the EFI to the (-) post on the coil
6. Connect your (+) post on the coil to any +12v keyed wire (typically the EFI/COIL (orange) wire in the RF harness)
7. Re wire the inertia switch to be in-line with the fuel pump ground wire (I still need to do this)
8. Install the CTS (if BPE didn't already do it) and connect the CTS plug from the EFI to the sensor

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100763&d=1547510045

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100764&d=1547510054


I “think” I understand what to do, but I want to make sure I’m not missing something. If my understanding is correct, I only need to send two wires from the EFI harness through the firewall to connect with other wires behind the dash: (1) the Holley Sniper blue wire (fuel pump output (+12v)); and (2) the Holley Sniper pink switched ignition wire. All the other wires mentioned above (e.g., the yellow and light-blue wires) will connect to components inside the engine compartment. Is that correct?


As I understand it, in this arrangement the Holley Sniper blue wire is used to control the fuel pump relay on the FFR fuse panel. This can be done either by (1) cutting the orange wire on the fuse panel and connecting it in-line to the Holley Sniper blue wire (i.e., leaving the orange connection in place at the fuse panel); or (2) “de-pinning” the orange wire from the fuse panel and replacing it with the Holley Sniper blue wire with an appropriate pin connection.

If I understand correctly, this will result in two relays between the Holley Sniper EFI and the fuel pump: (1) the Holley Sniper fuel-pump relay that is pre-installed in the EFI wiring harness, which resides in the engine compartment, and (2) the fuel-pump relay that is pre-installed on the FFR fuse box. I’m assuming it’s OK to have two relays in series like this?

Finally, I understand that the Holley Sniper pink wire (switched ignition (+12v)) connects to the orange “EFI/Coil” wire pictured here, which is part of the “EFI” branch of the main harness:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131701&d=1594603092

If I understand correctly, this is the wire that fits the requirement of being “clean” switched power during key-on and cranking. Is this correct?

As always, I would greatly appreciate any input on these questions, and on my proposed approach in general.

[JB in NOVA]

Wiring continues. So far, it has not been as bad as I thought it would be. Tedious for sure, but it’s also kind of fun to “dream” something into existence using switches, relays, fuses, wires, etc. and then see it actually happen. My only goal today was to wire my USB charger and my CobraHeat seat warmers. I’m trying to take this whole process one step at a time, so small victories are fine with me.

On that note, I should point out that I completed the Breeze forward battery ground wire and jumper:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131863&d=1594872936

For the USB charging port, I purchased this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNDDTP6?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title It’s a dual USB charging port with LED lighting, powered with 12v.
I wired the (+) side of the USB charging port to the “radio power” wire. This will be powered when the key is in anything other than the off position. I contemplated using the “radio memory” wire, which remains powered after shutoff, but I really don’t think I’ll need that. My phone will only be charged when I’m in (or near) the car, with key in the ignition. For the (-) side, I connected a ground wire to the frame at the same location as the fuse box ground, and then used this as a common ground for both the USB charger and the seat warmers.

For the seat warmers, I used the “wipers” wire, since I will not have powered wipers. [Note to self: I need to replace the 18A fuse with a 20A fuse, per CobraHeat instructions –10A per seat]. I wanted the control switches mounted under the dash, as opposed to on the seat base as the CobraHeat system is configured. This required cutting the four wires to the CobraHeat switches and running extensions to the seat areas. In addition, the seat warmers require red (+) and black (-) power wires. So I ran a total of 10 wires (4 switch controls each for left and right and 2 power lines through the firewall (same hole as the rear harness) and down the transmission tunnel:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131864&d=1594872955

At the “Y” junction at the back of the transmission tunnel, I branched the (+) and (-) power lines to the left and right, so that each seat received 6 wires – 4 switch-control wires and 2 power wires.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131865&d=1594872997

My plan is to bring the wiring looms through a 1” hole in the back of the cockpit behind each seat. This will require a hole in the carpet – but nobody will ever see anything back there behind the seats.

I wired everything to quick-connects, so I can do the final assembly once the body aluminum is completed and the seats are going into place. But I could not avoid my curiosity – will this actually work? I went ahead and hooked up the seat heaters, left and right:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131866&d=1594873020

Happily, I saw power lights under the dash (left and right) and felt warm pads. My USB port works, too (and I verified it actually charges my phone):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131867&d=1594873038

Small victories.

[edwardb]

Wiring is fun, isn't it? :o Two comments: Personally, I'd find a different place for your fuel pump inertia switch ("impact switch"). I've yet to trip mine in actual use (which is a good thing) but have checked it several times for various reasons. Really wouldn't want to be removing the access cover every time. Even with the under dash cover, you should be able to find a place in the cockpit where it can be reached. Just my opinion. I'd also suggest a little caution on changing fuses. The wiper circuit you mentioned is 10 amps, not 18. Never heard of an 18 amp fuse. The wiring in circuits is generally matched to the current carrying requirement and specified fuse. Just changing the fuse doesn't increase the capacity. You could exceed the wiring in the circuit and with the heavier fuse get into trouble before the fuse blows. Don't know the details about what you did and maybe it's OK. But be careful there.

[JB in NOVA]

Paul, thanks for the advice. I think I've found a more suitable place for the inertia switch on the passenger's side -- I just need to test fit my dash with glove box to make sure I'll have access. And your caution about replacing fuses with higher ratings is well-taken. I will leave everything as-is, although I might have to find a different power source for the seat heaters, which are rated for 10A each.

[GTBradley]

Very clean on the wiring! - a sure sign of a disturbed mind:p.

My wiring decisions were very similar to yours. Not only did I run the seat heat wires through the back wall, but I also mounted the relays there. I figured that would keep them elevated should the car get water in it. The wires don’t really show, especially since I wrapped the white plugs with black electrical tape.

[toadster]

I haven’t had much time to work on the Roadster this week, but I did manage to get the Breeze forward battery tray installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130128&d=1592435553



just FYI - Breeze directions recommend 5 rivets - you have to drill the other two; not that it's going places! :)

and yes, my air rivet gun made QUICK action on my 3/16 rivets too!

[JB in NOVA]

just FYI - Breeze directions recommend 5 rivets - you have to drill the other two; not that it's going places! :)

and yes, my air rivet gun made QUICK action on my 3/16 rivets too!

Toadster, ha ha, you caught me! My arm was so tired after manually pulling those three SS rivets I wondered, "do I really need those other two?" I decided I didn't. Like you said, that box isn't going anywhere. Nevertheless, this is one of the things on my list to revisit before I install the engine. Good eye!

[JB in NOVA]

Today I worked on the dashboard wiring. I’m running the Ron Francis wiring harness and the FFR-supplied vintage GPS gauges. Almost immediately, I ran into an issue. The Ron Francis manual (Rev. W, Nov. 2019) says to connect the “black gauge dial light cable to all of the gauges.” It shows a picture of a daisy-chain connecting black-and-gray wires on each gauge:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132055&d=1595121890

But my Vintage GPS gauges (purchased with my kit) don’t have any black-and-gray wires, and there was no gauge dial light daisy-chain cable in my gauge box:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132056&d=1595121902

I assume I have a newer version of the vintage GPS gauges, although it’s surprising that the wiring manual was updated less than a year ago, in November 2019, but doesn’t address this new gauge configuration. Anyway, I think I figured out how to wire the gauge lighting by connecting the white wire in the “power distribution cable” to the white wire labeled “Dash Lights” in the RF harness. I also separately connected the white clock wire to a separate white “Dash lights” jumper. The rest of the install was fairly straight-forward, after taking some tips from the forum such as connecting the brown “Gauge feed” wire to the yellow voltmeter wire (not specified anywhere in the RF instructions – why???).

As you can see, I used my pool table for this entire task. If you think that’s sacrilege, just know that it’s the most use this pool table has seen in 5 years:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132057&d=1595121912

Finally, my curiosity would not let me get away without testing everything out. I used a 9V battery, and here was the result:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132058&d=1595121924

The coolest thing is that the voltmeter accurately recorded my 9V power source:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132059&d=1595121936

I also set the clock and verified that it ran accurately. Next step: temporarily install the dashboard in the Roadster and test all the functions.

[TMartinLVNV]

I used my kitchen table. But, living the bachelor's dream over here, I eat most of my meals over the sink so there is no one to complain. ;)

Doc recommended this for me and it worked really well when testing everything electrical in the car. It really came in handy testing the harness with everything hooked up.

https://www.amazon.com/Rayovac-926-General-Purpose-Terminals/dp/B000ROFZFE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=12v+lantern+battery&qid=1595129621&sr=8-1

[JB in NOVA]

Today, I finished the dash and got the glovebox installed. The FFR hinge hardware for the glovebox is kind of rickety, so I might be looking to upgrade that in the near future. In the meantime, I went ahead and rough installed the dash and the RT turn signal arm in the car and hooked it up to 12V:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132114&d=1595203651

While I was at it, I found what I think is a suitable mounting location for the inertia switch, on the firewall extension on the passenger’s side, accessible from below with the dash installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132116&d=1595203681

I ran one of the inertia switch ground wires through an emergency fuel cutoff switch, mounted under the dash:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132117&d=1595203692

One rookie mistake to report: When I installed my USB charger smack dab in the middle of the under-dash panel, I failed to anticipate that the headlight switch occupies this same real estate. So I had to move the USB switch back a few inches. I’ll patch the old hole with a block-off plate of some sort.

With my son helping out from the driver’s seat, I used a multimeter to test all the switch functions. Headlights and tail lights work fine in all modes, turn signals and hazard flashers seem to work, although the cycle is something like 8.7V / 9.3V, which is not enough of a differential to actually make the indicators blink. I understand that I actually need to load the circuit (i.e., attach bulbs) to fully test this feature, so I’ll do that later this week.

My GPS speedo acquired a signal and accurately reported my speed as 0 mph, with 00000 miles driven so far. I hope to change that soon!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132118&d=1595203703

[460.465USMC]

Brake System Fill and Bleed

The O-ring was sitting on top of the inlet port, instead of around the indentation in the middle of the inlet port body. Because the plastic adapter is constrained with a circular clamp, having the O-ring at the top of the body does nothing at all. As I recall, these plastic adapters were already installed on the master cylinders when they arrived in the kit, and I had left them in place assuming they were installed correctly. I was wrong!

Once I did that, the MC leaks magically stopped. Next, I worked my way around to each caliper, attached a nylon hose to the bleed valve with the other end submerged in some brake fluid in a plastic bottle, and pumped the brakes until I got flow. I didn’t worry about air bubbles at this point – I just wanted to get the system basically filled. My tiny reservoirs made this process a little tedious. They empty out in just four pumps of the brake pedal, so I had to constantly refill to make sure I didn’t air-lock the master cylinders. Anyway, this process went reasonably well, and I soon had filled brake lines.

To my surprise, I had only one leak (from the rear T-junction), which I easily fixed by tightening the compression nut. Honestly, with all the bending and flaring, and fitting and refitting, etc., I expected much worse.

With my system now filled and leak-free, I did the final bleed process. Because I was working alone, I followed this technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4BnNA3Ep4. Basically, as I bled each brake, I ran a length of clear nylon tubing from the bleeder into the reservoir. Doing that from the rear brakes required several feet of tubing. Then I just pumped the brakes repeatedly until there were no more air bubbles. This method is especially good for very small reservoirs like mine. Instead of having to constantly worry about the reservoir running dry, the fluid just recirculates from the brake to the reservoir, and you can pump the brakes as much as you want until you are convinced there is no air in the system.

After that, my brakes were firm and felt great – no sponginess whatsoever. I confirmed by hand that they are stopping the rotors. So, for now, it looks like I have brakes!J

Hello JB in NOVA! So, first I had to wrap my small mind around the idea you are not actually referring to one of my favorite Chevrolet cars from the 60s. Once this west coastie figured out you are referring to northern Virginia (you are, right?), it made sense. (I used to own a 1969 Nova, and I'm a bowtie guy at heart, but I've become a big fan of F5 and these MK4s).

I've read your entire thread, and really enjoying your documentation, pictures, and lessons learned along the way. I too am a "Noob". I have already noted several tips for future reference from your thread for when my kit arrives. The one above about brake bleeding (I've never done this either) is probably my favorite so far.

Thanks for your investment in the forum, and keep on with your build! It's looking good to me!

Chris

[JB in NOVA]

Hi Chris. Yes, I'm in Northern Virginia, just outside Washington, DC (we call it "NOVA"). Thanks for the kind words. It's definitely been a learning experience for me, but so much fun! This forum is an invaluable source of information -- I use it almost every day. The forum members are very generous about sharing their knowledge and experience. It has helped me avoid a lot of mistakes during my build (although not all of them, as you can tell from my build thread). Good luck with your build!

[JB in NOVA]

Just a couple hours in the garage tonight, so not a lot to report. This morning, I purchased some 12v bulbs from the local auto store to test the turn signals and hazard circuits. They both tested “sat” as we used to say in the navy – i.e., they both worked fine. They blinked like a charm.

I was curious why you need to actually load the flasher circuits to see the blinker function. What I learned is that old-school blinker relays contain an electro-thermal mechanism that requires at-load current to operate properly. Apparently, inside the cylindrical “flasher” housings are three components:

• An electrical contact that conducts electricity into the wire
• A piece of gently curved spring steel to which the electrical contact attaches
• A resistive wire wrapped around a smaller piece of spring steel

When you activate the turn-signal relay, the thermal flasher connects to the turn-signal bulbs, allowing current to flow. Initially, the conductive spring steel does not touch the contact, so the only thing that draws power is the resistor. Current flows through the resistor, heating up the smaller piece of spring steel but sending very little current to the lights. After a pre-set amount of time (e.g., ½ to 1 second), the smaller spring steel component heats up enough that it expands and straightens out the larger, curved piece of spring steel. This forces the curved spring steel into the contact so that current flows to the lights unimpeded by the resistor. At that point, with almost no current passing through the resistor, the smaller spring steel quickly cools, bending back away from the contact and breaking the circuit. The cycle then starts over and repeats, creating the familiar "clicking" sound we all have come to recognize as a blinker. 100-year-old technology, but still ingenious!

Here's a fuller explanation: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/turn-signal2.htm

I had no idea that’s how a flasher relay works, and I’m not even entirely sure if that’s how the FFR-supplied relays work. But now that I know, it makes sense that you need to load the circuit in order for it to operate correctly. In any event, I was really happy to see my turn signals and hazard lights working properly. One more thing crossed off my punch list.

The other thing I did was wire a “flash to pass” function using the push-button on the RT stalk. I used a generic Dorman 88069 30A 5-pin relay purchased from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NF0ICSO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I wired it pretty much as Russ instructs. I attached one of the black wires from the VW stalk to ground. I attached the other to pin 85 on the Dorman relay. I cut the “LT BLU-HDLT SW/ DIM SW” and made it into a three-way pigtail. I attached two of those leads to pins 86 and 87 of the Dorman relay and the other to the high-beam toggle switch in my lower dash support. In essence, this uses the 12v headlight power to (1) trigger the Dorman relay when the stalk button is pressed, and (2) send line voltage through the relay (when activated) to the high-beam circuit. Finally, I connected pin 30 of the Dorman relay to the two-brown-wire output of the high-beam toggle switch. This momentarily powers the high-beam circuit when the stalk button is depressed, while leaving the low-beams on. In other words, “flash to pass.”

I hooked up a 12V bulb and tested it out, and (to my pleasant surprise) it worked perfectly the first time:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132233&d=1595390917

Paul is right, wiring is fun (when it works). At this point, I can comfortably state that the Russ Thompson turn signal system is relatively easy to install both mechanically and electrically (at least for the turn signal and flash-to-pass functions). And his instructions were 100% accurate.

Progress continues . . .

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for the write-up on the flash-to-pass! Another tip added to my growing list of tips and wanna-dos on my build.

[JB in NOVA]

Work has been insane the past few weeks, but I finally got some time in the garage today. The first thing I did is put the tires on the car for a rough front-end alignment:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133256&d=1596938365

It was cool seeing the Roadster with tires for the first time! One thing I noticed right away is that the rear flexible brake lines were rubbing against the rims:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133257&d=1596938386

Also, for the past few weeks, I’ve been noticing some weeping from my rear brake-line T-connection. It was less than 1 drop per week, but I couldn’t seem to get it to stop. I think the culprit was that I’d installed one of the fittings too close to the frame, which made it difficult to fully tighten. You can see this from one of my earlier pictures:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129313&d=1590973401

So I decided to re-do the rear T-connection. Before I did that, though, I put the car on the ground to make sure there weren’t any other interference problems:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133258&d=1596938408

I didn’t see any additional interference problems, so I put the car back on jacks and re-did the rear T-connection. I found that I got better clearance from the frame by connecting the mounting plate to the inside of the ¾-inch tube, rather than to the outside as the manual instructs. Here’s how it ended up after I modified it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133259&d=1596938428

While I was at it, I readjusted the rear flexible lines on both sides so they would not rub against the rims. I did this by manually holding the line in the correct position (i.e., with the line pointing away from the wheel as it exits the brake) while slowly tightening the banjo bolt:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133260&d=1596938451

I re-filled and bled the brake lines, and everything now seems to be leak-free and interference-free:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133261&d=1596938466

Progress continues . . .

[jrcuz]

JB, good work getting the leak fixed and repositioning the rear lines. Mine had been on the chassis dolly for so long the first time I had the tires on and dropped it to the floor I almost thought it was low enough to trip over.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I’m in a bit of a holding pattern. I’d set aside my entire Sunday as “E-brake” day. I woke up early, excited to start this new phase of the project. But as I unwrapped my E-brake components, I realized I was missing Part #15167 (Fixed Gear), which is obviously an indispensable part. I scoured everything and every box, and it is definitely missing. No one to blame but myself – I should have caught this during my initial inventory, but I saw a big bag of E-brake parts and “assumed” it was complete. Lesson for future newbies like me: you really have to open every one of those zip-lock bags (even the ones wrapped up with packing tape) to ensure you have all the invoiced parts.

Anyway, no harm, no foul. FFR is sending me one as we speak. In the meantime, I got started installing my sound insulation. Today, I finished the PS footbox. Talk about a tedious process! It’s not exactly difficult or challenging – just tedious and time-consuming, sort of like tiling a bathroom. And not particularly fun in the Washington DC August humidity:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133409&d=1597111354

I’m using Kilmat 80 mil (https://www.amazon.com/Kilmat-Deadening-Automotive-Insulation-dampening/dp/B0751CBXBT). It gets good reviews on Amazon, but I can’t personally vouch for it yet in terms of noise reduction. Install is fairly easy, and it seems to adhere very well. I will update once I actually have a noise generator installed in the engine bay.

[jrcuz]

I'm with you JB, I'd be finished with my heat/sound barrier install if it weren't for this heat and humidity we're experiencing. Later this week looks promising though. I only have a single car garage with a small window a/c unit and it is pretty useless this time of year.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I’m still working on small projects as I wait for my E-brake part to arrive. In the meantime, I replaced my valve covers and air filters with “Cobra” branded parts from Summit. (valve covers: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6582-A; air filter: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-9600-C302) These are very high-quality parts, and I am happy with them. My only regret is that I didn't coordinate with Blueprint beforehand to have these installed; it might have saved me a bit of money. Note to future newbies like me: make sure you discuss with your engine builder exactly what you want in terms of cosmetics. Some of these things come from third parties, so your builder might have to order them as part of your build. I should also note that I needed to use different bolts than what Blueprint used because the holes in the Summit valve covers were a little bigger than the Blueprint covers. I used these bolts, and they worked fine: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-400-7508

Here’s how the 347 looks with the new covers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133577&d=1597374199

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133576&d=1597374182

This leads me to another question. I am planning on running the FFR accelerator cable from my Russ Thompson pedal to the Blueprint/Sniper linkage. I note that some folks have rotated their Sniper EFI unit 180 degrees, so the throttle linkage is on the passenger’s side. Mark at Breeze Automotive also recommended doing this so that the accelerator cable runs in a longer, smoother arc, instead of having to make two 180-degree turns coming out of the DS footbox and then mating with a driver’s-side throttle linkage.

Is this what most folks have done? Is this a simple task, or are their hidden problems with rotating the Holley Sniper 180 degrees on the engine? I see some electrical and plumbing connections that might need to be adjusted, but it doesn’t look too difficult. Still, I'm always hesitant to change things without knowing exactly what I'm in for. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Caddy Dad]

Hi JB,
I went with the mechanical throttle linkage so I can't comment on swapping the EFI 180*. However, my lesson learned tip is to insulate the grey wire connector coming off the distributor. I used a piece of shrink tubing. That wire can be used for the tachometer and is also used to set the rev limiter. I'm using the EFI tach signal coming from the Sniper to run the tachometer so I just tucked the grey wire into a pocket on the block. My grey wire accidentally shorted to the block while at idle and unknowingly set the rev limit to 2K. That was a real head scratcher until BadAsp427 enlightened me.

Cheers!

[TMartinLVNV]

I’m still working on small projects as I wait for my E-brake part to arrive. In the meantime, I replaced my valve covers and air filters with “Cobra” branded parts from Summit. (valve covers: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6582-A; air filter: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-9600-C302) These are very high-quality parts, and I am happy with them. My only regret is that I didn't coordinate with Blueprint beforehand to have these installed; it might have saved me a bit of money. Note to future newbies like me: make sure you discuss with your engine builder exactly what you want in terms of cosmetics. Some of these things come from third parties, so your builder might have to order them as part of your build. I should also note that I needed to use different bolts than what Blueprint used because the holes in the Summit valve covers were a little bigger than the Blueprint covers. I used these bolts, and they worked fine: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-400-7508

Here’s how the 347 looks with the new covers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133577&d=1597374199

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133576&d=1597374182

This leads me to another question. I am planning on running the FFR accelerator cable from my Russ Thompson pedal to the Blueprint/Sniper linkage. I note that some folks have rotated their Sniper EFI unit 180 degrees, so the throttle linkage is on the passenger’s side. Mark at Breeze Automotive also recommended doing this so that the accelerator cable runs in a longer, smoother arc, instead of having to make two 180-degree turns coming out of the DS footbox and then mating with a driver’s-side throttle linkage.

Is this what most folks have done? Is this a simple task, or are their hidden problems with rotating the Holley Sniper 180 degrees on the engine? I see some electrical and plumbing connections that might need to be adjusted, but it doesn’t look too difficult. Still, I'm always hesitant to change things without knowing exactly what I'm in for. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I have not seen anyone rotate the Sniper for this reason on our cars. I have the Lokar cable and it runs smooth even with the two bends. The throttle cable is run around the front to the right side of the motor for small block fords with the late 80's and 90's EFI because the throttle body was on that side rather than on top.

[JB in NOVA]

Caddy Dad and TMartinLVNV, thanks for the info! I think I will leave the Sniper as-is for now. I can always change it up later if need be. While I'm waiting for my E-brake part from FFR, I decided to prepare my rear cockpit wall for the Breeze cubby modification. I went with the dimensions recommended in the Breeze instructions, which requires 2.5-inch radius curves on either end. For those cuts, I used an adjustable hole cutter that I purchased from Home Depot:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133654&d=1597536663

This did an “OK” job, but the cutting surfaces are not really designed for metal. So once a well-defined groove was set, I used my Dremel tool to finish cutting the 5” diameter arcs. Then I used an angle grinder to make the straight cuts. After that, I used the Dremel to sand down and smooth out the edges:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133655&d=1597536680

I'm happy with the results, and any imperfections will be covered up by the bulb seal provided in the kit. After that, I cut 1” openings for the seat heater wiring and drilled and cleco'd the rear wall. It looks great in place!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133656&d=1597536702

I’m still waiting for a dry (not humid) day to paint all of my remaining panels, so final installation will have to wait. The other thing I took care of today is running a 3/16” hard line from the clutch master cylinder to the inside DS footbox wall. I used a 3/16”-inverted-flare-to-3AN-male bulkhead connection from Summit to pass through the panel. (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL50104).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133657&d=1597536722 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133658&d=1597536738

I also finished the DS footbox soundproofing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133659&d=1597536770

I'm slowly approaching engine install, and I can't wait!

[TMartinLVNV]

No matter what you decide on, this makes it way easier to mount your cable connections with a lot of adjustment. I read about this on Papa's (Dave) build. For about the 100th time for me, his build is a great source of information.

https://www.amazon.com/Fast-304147-EZ-EFI-Cable-Mount/dp/B00BBOLWTM

[Fman]

JB, your build is looking great!:D

I am looking forward to seeing your engine get dropped in... we are about in the same place, I am hoping to get my engine by the end of the month!

[JB in NOVA]

My E-brake fixed gear arrived just in time for the weekend. I’ve read enough build threads to know that the E-brake installation can be tricky, so I set aside an entire weekend to figure it out and get it done. Over the past several weeks, I’ve given careful consideration to doing EdwardB’s “pulley” modification to avoid running the tension cables under the 4” frame tube. Although I really like this mod and agree that running the cables under the 4” tube is unsightly, I ultimately decided not to do it. As a newbie, I’m worried that I will create more problems for myself than I will solve. So I decided to do the basic FFR installation for now -- I will reevaluate the setup later.

Assembling the E-brake itself is straight-forward—it took about 20 minutes. I primed the steel parts in advance to help prevent rust.

I knew from others’ build threads (and from the build school) that clearance between the E-brake handle and the tunnel aluminum is a common problem. And sure enough, I had that same problem. In this picture, you can see how close the handle is to the tunnel. The forward lever-arm bolt was scraping along the aluminum:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134121&d=1598221971

This problem has been well-documented in this forum, and there are many suggested solutions. I ended up doing an “all of the above” approach. First, I reversed the direction of the bolts on the lever arm so the heads are on the tunnel side. I also trimmed the tunnel aluminum, being careful not to get too close to the edge of the boot. In the picture below, the boot outline is drawn in silver, and I cut away a section for the forward angle bracket and another section for the arc of the forward lever-arm bolt:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134122&d=1598221985

This helped somewhat, but still not enough. Consulting the forum once again, I came across this excellent suggestion from Karl:

Hi Bruce. Could be, but I can't spot any differences based on what I see in the photos. I think this is just one of those cases where the assembly instructions can be improved upon. If you bench assemble the e-brake as shown below (rear angle bracket on the outboard side of the ratchet, front angle bracket on the opposite side of the ratchet) and then install with both angles on top of the chassis bracket I'll bet clearance to the sheetmetal will be adequate.

-Karl



http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78123&d=1514005298

I partially followed Karl’s suggestion by putting the front angle bracket on the inside of the lever arm (as shown in my picture below), which has the effect of pushing the front of the E-brake assembly outboard a bit more, increasing the angle. But I kept the forward angle bracket beneath the chassis bracket, per the FFR instructions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134123&d=1598222001

This improved the clearance quite a bit:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134124&d=1598222012

For completeness sake, these are the changes I made to the FFR instructions:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134125&d=1598222030

Together with cutting the sheet metal (especially the section that allows the forward angle bracket bolt to protrude through), this seems to do the trick.

[JB in NOVA]

Next, I routed the cables to the rear calipers per the FFR instructions:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134126&d=1598222045

Driver’s side rear brake connection shown below:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134127&d=1598222058

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134128&d=1598222068

If anyone sees any problems with this routing, please let me know. In the meantime, the E-brake seems to work fine. It’s a little rickety, and it definitely will be difficult to reach from the driver’s seat with the harness on. But I’m satisfied it will perform its basic function of being a parking brake.

My only concern is that the cables seem rub on this bracket attached to the 4” tube:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134129&d=1598222083

Even though the cables have a plastic protective coating, It doesn’t seem like a good idea to let them rub against this edge for a long period of time. I'm thinking about gluing some sort of rubber or nylon friction surface to this metal edge to prevent excessive wear. Before I do, though, does anyone have any other suggestions (other than the “pulley” mod, which I’m aware of) to avoid wear-and-tear in this area?

[JohnK]

Nice work on the e-brake. I put a protective "sleeve" over my e-brake cable housing in areas where I was worried about it rubbing the frame. I bought several different types of tubing at the local O'Reilly and finally settled on this one. It's flexible enough to be able to slide it on with a liberal dose of soapy water, and once the water dries it's pretty well fixed in place. Fuel line tubing in the same dimensions was way too stiff. Not sure I'm a fan of the cable going over the edge of that bracket, even with a protective sleeve. Can you slide it over a touch so it's resting on the 4" tube? If you can get it over a bit and put a protective sleeve on it, you should be good to go.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134130&d=1598226376

[Jeff Kleiner]

My only concern is that the cables seem rub on this bracket attached to the 4” tube:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134129&d=1598222083

Even though the cables have a plastic protective coating, It doesn’t seem like a good idea to let them rub against this edge for a long period of time. I'm thinking about gluing some sort of rubber or nylon friction surface to this metal edge to prevent excessive wear. Before I do, though, does anyone have any other suggestions (other than the “pulley” mod, which I’m aware of) to avoid wear-and-tear in this area?

Easy-peasey; I've done this on several cars. Use some 1/2" O.D. nylon spacers screwed to the round tube to help direct or guide the cables away from the bracket and to keep them separated so that they aren't contacting one another. Here's are a couple of examples.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134159&d=1598265316

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134158&d=1598265250

Jeff

[JB in NOVA]

The Cobra project got put on the back burner for a while as I took some time off to go sailing. What a great way to reset!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134760&d=1599423394

I’m still thinking about Jeff's suggested method of separating and routing the E-brake cables. I plan to do something similar. In the meantime, I went ahead and installed the trunk divider for the Breeze cubby modification and installed sound proofing in the trunk area:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134761&d=1599423409
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134762&d=1599423423

This was relatively straightforward. The only modification I made in the trunk area (aside from the Breeze cubby, Russ Thompson drop trunk, and the “Kleiner” bolt extensions) was to fabricate interior side panels between the rear cockpit wall and the trunk triangle panels:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134763&d=1599423436

Several others in this forum have also created interior filler panels like this, and I understand they used to come standard with the FFR kit. Not sure why FFR stopped providing them, but they are useful for creating a nice, even surface for carpeting the interior of the trunk area. They weren’t hard to fabricate, but this seems like a perfect item for Mark to add to his inventory at Breeze!

[jrcuz]

Looks nice JB, I was on the fence with the drop trunk and decided to not do it. I may regret it down the road. Enjoy the holiday.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

I spent some time this weekend working on the radiator. I’m using the Breeze fan shroud and Breeze upper and lower radiator mounts. Because the Breeze upper hinge mount requires cutting the FFR mounts off of the ¾ inch cross bar at the front of the engine compartment, I wanted to get this done before the engine is installed.

Assembling the FFR radiator and fan with the Breeze shroud was relatively simple:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135010&d=1600032140

As with all the Breeze parts I’ve used so far, everything fit together perfectly. Attaching the hinge to the upper channel was also straight forward:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135011&d=1600032151

At first, I was a bit confused by the written instructions regarding how to properly orient the hinge (the instructions say to put the “hinge pin facing down,” but this is somewhat ambiguous when the radiator is on the bench top). Anyway, this picture in the instructions cleared everything up for me:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135020&d=1600032350

The next step was to remove the FFR mounting tubes that are welded to the ¾ inch cross bar. I must admit I was paranoid about damaging the cross bar after reading another builder’s unfortunate experience with this. I used a cutting wheel on an angle grinder to cut through the welds, being careful to cut on the “sacrificial” side of the weld, not on the cross-bar side. I switched to a Dremel cutting wheel for a couple spots where I couldn’t get the angle grinder into position.

Once this was done, I used a chisel to work the mounting tubes away from the cross bar.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135012&d=1600032178

After working the mounting tubes back and forth for a couple minutes, they broke free, leaving some remnants still attached to the cross bar. I was able to chisel these remnants off without doing any damage to the cross bar:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135013&d=1600032194

Finally, I used a 60-grit sanding wheel on my Dremel to sand everything smooth:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135014&d=1600032238

Then I touched up the bare spots with semi-gloss paint.

[JB in NOVA]

Attaching the radiator to the frame using the Breeze upper and lower mounts was straight-forward and problem-free. The instructions are very clear, and the parts fit perfectly. Here’s the upper hinge mount installed, with the lower radiator still being supported by a floor jack:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135015&d=1600032278

I used an i-Phone app called “Angle Pro” to dial in the angle to 51 degrees. Then I installed the lower mount hardware. Here is the fully installed radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135016&d=1600032292

The lower mount uses rubber hoses on either end to provide a “resilient” mounting system that is supposed to reduce stress on the radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135017&d=1600032306

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my installation or has advice about how to improve it, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you. I will be temporarily removing the radiator to make way for the engine install.

Here’s the other thing I managed to complete this weekend:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135018&d=1600032323

If all goes well, the drive train should be installed by next week! It’s amazing that I’m already at that stage – all those tiny steps have really added up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135019&d=1600032338

[JohnK]

Very nice work! The radiator install looks great. I can't wait to see your engine go in.

[jrcuz]

Everything looks great JB. I used the Breeze radiator mounts also and am very pleased with everything Breeze sells. Can't wait for your drivetrain install pics.
JR

[egchewy79]

The one ton hoist may not be enough to get your small block in the mounts. Set it to the 1/4ton mark and give yourself enough length on the chain. The ram on the hoist will hit the radiator cross member before the mounts get close to the brackets, by a few inches. I had to lengthen the chains on mine and basically swing it into the mounting holes. Use a leveler if you have one and I needed 2 others to swing in into place.

[JB in NOVA]

egchewy79, thanks for that advice! I'm a little confused by the suggestion that I put the hoist at the 1/4 ton mark -- you're saying extend the arm out to its furthest setting? Is that safe? I was planning on keeping it on the 1 ton setting, but I guess you're saying that won't be enough to actually get the engine far enough into the engine bay to mate with the mounts before the ram hits the cross member. Not quibbling with your first-hand experience, but I'm nervous about setting the hoist at just 1/4 ton (500 lbs) (I think the engine/transmission weighs more than that).

Sorry if that's a stupid question. This is my first engine install . . . ever.

I do have a leveler, and I will have two extra people for the process.

[edwardb]

After all the work putting in the radiator, you're going to want to take it back out to install the engine. You need all the room you can get at the bottom to push the hoist far enough back. egchewy79 is right. The 1 ton version has been mentioned by many as barely enough to get the job done. Even with the radiator out. 20/20 hindsight (sorry) but the 2 ton version is the better choice. Make sure you have plenty of help and watch that the hoist doesn't get tippy with the engine that far out. I've heard of guys having to stand on that size hoist.

[jrcuz]

JB, I used my 1 ton H/F hoist and a carb. plate. I have a leveler but didn't use it (no particular reason) I hadn't installed my radiator yet. Had 1 helper in the cockpit pushing down on the tail of the trans. You will be surprised how quickly it happens. Check your motor mounts for fit to the eng. block before you get the eng. in. Mine being a Dart block is cast with webbing where the mounts bolt to the block. Rather than grind down the webbing we decided to modify the mounts. Yours should be OK if BluePrint uses Ford blocks. I agree with edwardb have your heaviest helper ready to get on the rear of the hoist, that would have been me but we were ok.
JR

[egchewy79]

I had to insert my SBF engine 3 times. the first time, the hoist was set at the 1/2 ton setting. after getting the drivetrain in the car, it was evident that we were not close to the motor mounts. took everything out, dropped the drivetrain on an old tire, and adjusted the hoist arm to the 1/4 ton setting. tried again, and again fell short. took everything out and lengthened the chain (chained directly to the block). third try was a charm, but had to "swing" the drivetrain rearward like a pendulum and drop it into the mounting brackets while others were holding tension...not ideal. we had one guy who's job was to jump on the back of the hoist if it started to tip. I have a T5Z, so it's likely a bit lighter than your TKO. I estimated my drivetrain to be just around 500lbs, so I was probably pushing the limits of the hoist set at 1/4 ton. if I had to do it over, i'd consider swapping out for the 2 ton version.

on a side note, I've heard of others able to successfully come in from an angle. I have no experience w/ this whatsoever, but a possible solution.

[JB in NOVA]

Gentlemen, thank you for your advice. I humbly bow to the wisdom of the forum! I certainly don't want my first engine install experience to involve "iffy" equipment. Today, I was able to return my 1-ton engine crane (for a full refund) and exchange it for a 2-ton model. As luck would have it, the 2-ton crane was on sale at HF, so it didn't actually cost me much extra. And now I have prior experience assembling engine cranes!

[JohnK]

Good call on the 2 ton lift. I bought the same one. One other nice thing about it is that it takes up zero garage space because my friends are always borrowing it. ;)

[NA5KAR]

Hi JB. Great build thread. I'm chugging along on my build slowly here in Florida. When I saw the picture of your 1 ton hoist, I got excited thinking I had something to contribute. Scrolling down, I'm glad others were quick to advise the 2 ton. I had the same experience. Had the 1 ton and put it in place as a dry run to see where everything lined up. I found that the (centered) chain would have put the engine down about 6" forward of the mounts. Johnny from Blueprint told me that my engine/trans combo weighed about 676 lbs. I have the 302 with a T5 trans. I swapped the 1 ton for the 2 ton at HF as well. I used the 1 ton boom position and it went in easy. One other thing I learned from the forum, specifically Papa's build thread, is to make sure to set the car in the right position to use the hoist. Otherwise, the hoist wont roll under the frame of the car. Front wheels on blocks and rear wheels on blocks, but quite a bit higher than the front. Look at Papa's thread to see how he did it. Best of luck on the install.

[JB in NOVA]

I’m still making preparations for the drive train install. In the meantime, I took care of the E-brake cable routing problem I mentioned earlier. As I noted above, I didn’t like that one of the E-brake cables was rubbing against the seat bracket on the 4-inch tube:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134129&d=1598222083

Jeff Kleiner had a good suggestion involving nylon spacers to guide the cables away from the bracket. I did a modified version of his suggestion using a couple of 5/8” double-cable clamps, which I think are typically used for motorcycles. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017OFASAU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I drilled a hole through the center of each clamp to receive a 3/8” stainless steel socket cap screw. Then I tapped threaded holes in the 4” tube and fastened the clamps in place to pull the cables slightly away from the bracket. To avoid chaffing, I put nylon tubing over the cables – the tubing gets snuggly captured by the brackets but still allows the cable to slide through. Here’s how it looks:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135148&d=1600286219

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135149&d=1600286252

I tested the E-brake several times, and everything seems functional. I’ll keep an eye on it down the road to make sure it isn’t causing chaffing problems.

The other thing I did is pull the Roadster out of the garage (technically, my son pushed it out with me steering) to do some garage rearrangement in preparation for the drive train install. Here’s #9822 seeing the sunshine for the first time!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135150&d=1600286283

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135151&d=1600286298

[JB in NOVA]

Big day today! With the help of a couple friends and my dad, we got the drive train installed. After all the preparation and build-up, the entire process only took an hour. But it was a fun day.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135309&d=1600642737

A few notes about the preparation. First, I was pretty sure these brackets (rear bracket shown below) could be used as lift points, but I went ahead and verified with Blueprint to be sure. Better safe than sorry. Their answer: yes, those are the lifting brackets for my Blueprint 347 engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135310&d=1600642753

One other issue I came across was that the engine-to-bracket bolts provided with the FFR kit were too long. They bottomed out before tightening. But my Blueprint engine came with properly sized bolts in those mounts (and they were grade 8, versus the grade 5 FFR bolts), so I used the Blueprint bolts instead. In the picture below, the Blueprint-supplied bolt is on the left, and the FFR-supplied bolt is on the right:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135311&d=1600642765

As noted above, I traded in my 1-ton HF crane for a 2-ton crane, which worked great. I used an engine leveler attached at the 1-ton setting for the install:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135312&d=1600642776

For the install, I pretty much followed the guidelines many others have discussed. I put the front tires on wheel dollies and put the rear end on jacks to create a better angle. I used the leveler to put a severe downward angle on the engine and then reduced the angle and lowered the engine as my helpers guided it into place. The only problem we had was that the driver’s side engine mount was initially about ½ inch out of alignment. But after some adjustments with a pry bar and then tightening down the mounting nuts, we got everything sitting flush and centered.

Before we popped open the beers, we pushed the car out for a “photo shoot” with its new engine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135313&d=1600642812

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my install, please let me know!

[JohnK]

Congratulations JB! That's a big milestone. I can't wait for the video of first start.

[460.465USMC]

Right on, JB! Looking good! Cool to have your Dad and buddy along to help/witness this accomplishment.

[JB in NOVA]

465USMC, thanks for the kind words. BTW, my dad is from Wallace, Idaho, not too far from Spokane. If I recall his stories correctly, Spokane was the "big city" they used to drive to when they could save up enough gas money.

[jrcuz]

Well done JB and crew, Install does go quickly, I was surprised when we did mine. My left eng. mount also required some massaging with a 2x4 and sledge hammer. When I disassembled the crate my eng. came in I think I had enough lumber and screws to build a small house. Friend and builder Tom came over yesterday and we removed the body so now I can finish the XMAT and do the carpet.
JR

[TMartinLVNV]

Awesome. Big milestone accomplished.

[bldr.rob]

Congratulations!! That's a great day!

[460.465USMC]

465USMC, thanks for the kind words. BTW, my dad is from Wallace, Idaho, not too far from Spokane. If I recall his stories correctly, Spokane was the "big city" they used to drive to when they could save up enough gas money.

Neat fact--thanks for passing along. Wallace probably hasn't grown much since your Dad lived there. In fact, it's likely became less populated after the area mines shut down decades years ago. Unfortunately, I-90 was rerouted to bypass this town, so now it's barely a blink when when zooming past at 70 MPH.

[JB in NOVA]

After the excitement of the engine install, the next question was: okay, what’s next? Being a linear thinker, I turned to the FFR manual, and the next step in the manual is to install the battery (which I’ve already done), and the last step of that process is to “Attach the battery cable to the battery post on the starter.”

The RF wiring diagram seems fairly clear on this point:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135434&d=1600836242

It seems like the three red wires bundled together and labeled with “Starter Solenoid” in the RF wiring harness, plus the positive cable from the battery, all meet up at the large stud on the starter solenoid. The smaller stud hosts the wire from the ignition switch via the clutch safety switch. And the third stud is pre-wired with a black cable to the starter. But given the importance of this step, I decided to consult the forum. I found many posts about this step, including from EdwardB, Papa, Karl, and several other luminaries. That, alone, gave me pause.

Before I continue, let me just say that I’ve read and studied EdwardB’s excellent comments on this issue, such as here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30138-Connecting-Wires-to-the-Starter-Alternator. But what concerns me is that I don’t seem to be having the same problems others have reported on this issue. I know that sounds weird, but as a newbie I get nervous when my build deviates from those who are more experienced than me.

From what I can tell, people have reported two problems with this step: (1) it was difficult to get all four red wires onto the same stud on the starter solenoid; and (2) the three “starter solenoid” wires in the RF harness did not reach all the way to the starter. Most of the comments I found were aimed at solving these two problems, and they typically involved using a remote bus or terminal to collect the ignition and alternator wires so that only a single positive feed needed to be attached to the starter solenoid.

Here’s the thing: I have not seen either of those problems in my kit, and that make me nervous that I’m perhaps doing something wrong. As I’ve currently mocked it up, all four red wires fit comfortably on the same stud on the starter solenoid, and all the wires seem to reach fine (in the picture below, the battery positive cable has light-blue heat-shrink):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135435&d=1600836259

For context, I have the Breeze forward-battery tray, and I’ve routed the positive and negative battery lines as shown here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135436&d=1600836275
(negative terminal to engine ground)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135437&d=1600836292
(positive terminal to starter solenoid (mock up)).

Is my setup OK? I know there might be more elegant ways to wire the starter solenoid, but at this point I’m fine just following the FFR manual. But I definitely do NOT want to wire it incorrectly. So if anyone sees a problem with my wiring, I would greatly appreciate your feedback. Thank you!

[edwardb]

Nothing wrong with pulling those wires down to the starter if it works for your setup. Electrically it's fine. Some of us have gone a different direction, as you described. Usually because of other decisions made with the wiring, the harness leg locations, etc. But if that works for you, go for it. No one right answer for every build.

[JB in NOVA]

Thanks edwardB! That gives me peace of mind.

[JB in NOVA]

Today I worked on connecting the oil pressure sender. This is what came with my RF harness:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135521&d=1601079712

The RF instructions say: “The Vintage gauges oil pressure sending unit requires 3 wires. The oil temp gauge wire can be used for the third wire if an oil temp gauge is not used.” Since that describes my setup, I decided to follow this instruction, even though it is silent as to exactly how to use the oil temp gauge wire as the third wire.

The first thing I noticed is that the pin connector for the oil pressure gauge has three wires on the gauge side (yellow/green, yellow/red, yellow/brown) but only two on the sender side (grey and black).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135522&d=1601079724

The sender-side pin corresponding to the yellow/green wire is empty:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135523&d=1601079738

From this I surmised (more like “guessed”) that the yellow/green wire is the one that should connect to the repurposed oil temp gauge wire. Based on this assumption/guess, I cut the yellow/green wire and connected it to the light-blue oil temp gauge wire behind the dash.

The RF instructions then say to cut the sending unit plug off, leaving 1-2” of wire on the plug. I did that:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135524&d=1601079752

Finally, the instructions say “Attach the plug[] to the sending unit harness, black is ground and the white plug wire goes to the colored sending unit wire.” I assumed that the “colored sending unit wire” means the gray wire. So I connected black to black, white to gray, and red to the repurposed light-blue oil temp sender wire.

I wanted to test the pressure sender before installing it, so I hooked up a bicycle pump to put pressure on it, and I applied battery power. As soon as the battery was connected, my oil pressure gauge pegged at max. My first instinct was that I had reversed the white and red wires. My understanding is that the “third wire” carries a constant 5V signal, so if I connected that to the variable voltage wire, then the meter would detect maximum pressure.

I switched the wires at the sender: black to black, white to light-blue, red to gray. Reconnected the battery, and *presto* my gauge accurately recorded the bicycle pump pressure of about 18 psi.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135525&d=1601079766

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135526&d=1601079782

I pumped up and relieved pressure several times and could see the pressure gauge on the dash responding perfectly. So I’m assuming I got this wired correctly.
After that, I installed the sender into the engine using Teflon tape on the threads:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135527&d=1601079794

As always, please let me know if you see something incorrect or problematic. Next up will be the water temperature sender.

[JB in NOVA]

I’ve finished most of the engine wiring except the water temperature sender. Fun fact: if you torque too hard on the water temperature sender, it will break:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135782&d=1601483676

I even told myself before I started tightening it, “don’t over-torque it!” But I did anyway. Here’s the replacement for $21.80 in case anyone runs into the same problem: https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/602/Universal-Temperature-Sender-(Revolution-and-Legacy).

Other than that, the wiring went well. I routed the EFI battery and coil wires along the 4-inch tube on the passenger’s side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135783&d=1601483703

I connected the EFI battery wires to the terminal clamp bolts:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135784&d=1601483719

I tucked the fuel pump relay and fuse under the passenger’s side engine mount:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135785&d=1601483733

With everything hooked up, I turned the key to “on,” and my EFI computer came straight to life:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135786&d=1601483744

I also heard my in-tank fuel pump run for about 5 seconds and then shut off, which I understand is the normal EFI startup sequence.

Progress continues . . .

[egchewy79]

looking good!
assuming you don't have fuel in your tank, i'd recommend pulling the fuel pump fuse for now. my in tank pump would come on anytime the key was in the "run" position as the EFI (FiTech) wouldn't shut it off unless it detected fuel pressure. I needed to check out several things w/ the dash wiring and didn't want to burn out my pump if it was running dry. plugged the fuse back in once i was ready for first start.

[JB in NOVA]

egchewy79, yeah that's a good point. I will definitely put fuel in before I cycle the pump again. Thanks for the heads-up.

[JB in NOVA]

Just a quick update on my water temperature sender. I got a replacement sender from Speedhut – their shipping is very prompt! Before installing, I wanted to test it, so I attached the sender wires and dipped the sensor in hot water.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135808&d=1601589335

The temperature gauge responded accordingly:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135809&d=1601589351

Because I had brought the water to boil in the microwave just a minute before, I expected the temperature readout to be closer to 100 degrees C, but it only got to about 73 C. Perhaps the sensor is not as efficient unless fully immersed in a closed environment? In any event, the gauge and sender appear to be working reasonably well.

Incidentally, per egchewy79’s suggestion in Post #167, before turning the key to ON, I isolated the fuel pump with my fuel cutoff switch so it would not cycle. I’m not sure if running the pump dry for just 5 seconds will damage it, but I don’t want to take any chances.

When I installed the water temperature sender, I did it differently than before. First, I installed the 1/2 inch threaded adapter into the engine port. Then I installed the sender into the adapter. I torqued it tight but did not worry that there were still a couple threads showing. I figure if it leaks I can carefully put another quarter turn on it until it stops leaking. After breaking the first one, I definitely did not want to break my replacement!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135810&d=1601589359

I'm looking forward to tackling the fuel lines and hydraulic clutch line next.

[egchewy79]

Running your pump 5 sec at a time probably won't hurt anything, but why chance it. My FiTech apparently will keep running until it registers fuel pressure. Are you putting any thread sealant on the water sender?

[JB in NOVA]

egchewy79, I used high-temperature teflon tape on the threads, which I've read works fine. Let me know if you've had any bad experiences with it.

[sread]

egchewy79, I used high-temperature teflon tape on the threads, which I've read works fine. Let me know if you've had any bad experiences with it.

Actually teflon tape is usually not recommended for sensor installation because it can interfere with the sensor being grounded to the engine which is necessary for proper operation - teflon paste is the preferred sealant to use .

[D Stand]

This looks to be a 2 wire sender so no ground to block is needed. The tape is fine in this application.

[JB in NOVA]

This week I’ve been working on completing the fuel system. First, I assembled flexible send and return lines to the engine using -6AN braided nylon hose and AN hose ends from Summit. Before connecting them to the engine, I wanted to pressure test the entire fuel system and confirm proper operation of my in-tank fuel pump. Stealing an idea from JohnK, I hooked the lines up to my spare external pressure regulator and plugged the engine-send port. Then I put 3 gallons of fuel in the tank, 1 gallon at a time.

My fuel gauge acted kind of squirrely during the first 1.5 gallons, but it eventually smoothed out. With 3 gallons in the tank, it registered 1/8 of a tank:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135881&d=1601746604

Obviously, the FFR tank is not 24 gallons, so “1/8” is technically incorrect for 3 gallons in the tank. But I wonder if the system essentially ignores the first 1.5 gallons. Anyway, I know there is a method for calibrating the fuel gauge, but I think I’ll wait to see how it responds to more fuel before going down that road.

After double-checking all my connections, I closed my fuel cutoff switch and turned the key to ON. The pump started properly and the external regulator showed about 25 psi:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135880&d=1601746577

I was happy to see no leaks anywhere in my fuel system. Satisfied that the system is basically sound, I connected the fuel lines to the Holly Sniper and cycled the pump a few more times. Again, no leaks anywhere. Given that this was my very first fuel system install, I must say I was pleasantly surprised!

Finally, I worked my way through the Holley Sniper Setup Wizard using the handheld computer. One question for the forum: I set my target idle speed at 850 rpm. Does that sound like a reasonable setting for a Blueprint 347?

[Fman]

Oh yea! Looking great JB, I cant wait to hear your engine fire up! Nothing better than a pushrod V8 to soothe the soul:D

[JB in NOVA]

I’m slowly making progress toward my first engine start. Today I installed the headers. Nothing unusual or problematic to report. I found this YouTube video helpful for showing the proper procedure for installing the FFR-supplied “Mr. Gasket” aluminum header gaskets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3l3MQHqpas. As it instructs, I attached the two outer bolts first, leaving them loose, then I slipped the gasket from the top over those two bolts, and everything lined up perfectly. That’s a nice design! If I hadn’t watched that video first, I probably would have done something much more tedious and frustrating. So kudos to Mr. Gasket!

Per the Mr. Gasket video (and other info I found online), I did not use any gasket sealant. But I did apply some Loctite Blue to the header bolts, per the FFR instructions. Here are the installed headers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135972&d=1601947440 (passenger's side)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135973&d=1601947453 (driver's side)

I also attached the Sniper oxygen sensor into the port in the DS header, as shown above. I routed the cable up and away from the heat source, per the Sniper instructions.

One other thing I did is reinforce my bracket for the hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Originally, I had riveted the L-shaped bracket to the frame rail. But the more I worked on the car, the more I realized that the bracket was too flimsy. It was already starting to wobble back and forth. So I removed the rivets and tapped holes for ¼ inch stainless steel screws. I also installed zinc-plated steel L-brackets (cut to fit) on the backside of the mounting bracket. Now it's solid as a rock!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135974&d=1601947474

As always, please let me know if you see anything wrong in the pictures above.

[VAHokie]

Looks great. I'm not too far off from installing these myself and appreciate the link to the video.

[jrcuz]

Looking good JB, not long and we'll be watching your video with the engine running!
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Today I finished installing the accelerator cable. Thanks to some excellent advice from this forum (see post #133), I decided to use a Lokar 36” throttle cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CONKFQ/) and a Fast cable mounting kit (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BBOLWTM/).

These are really nice products with easy-to-follow instructions, and they fit perfectly. Here is how I routed the cable:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136042&d=1602117602

I shamelessly copied Papa’s idea of using 1” aluminum extension sleeves and longer valve cover bolts to create an elevated passageway for the cable routing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136043&d=1602117616

I found that by rotating the Fast kit’s adjustable mounting bracket 180 degrees compared to the illustrated instructions, the throttle cable lined up better with the throttle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136044&d=1602117628

In the picture above, you can see the adjustable bracket angles outboard, but the Fast instructions show it angling inboard. When I angled it inboard per the instructions, the cable approached the throttle at about a 5-degree angle. By flipping the orientation of the adjustable mounting bracket, the approach is nearly 0 degrees, as shown above.

I am using the Russ Thompson accelerator pedal, which has the advantage of being adjustable forward and backward along the ¾ inch frame tube. I set it so that it is just slightly lower than the brake pedal at rest and allows full throttle without hitting any obstructions:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136045&d=1602117667

I’ve got it on my “to do” list to install a pedal stop to prevent over-extension of the throttle.

[JB in NOVA]

Accelerator cable (continued)

One thing I'm a little concerned about is chafing of the throttle cable as it exits the footbox. In the pictures below, you can see the cable rubbing against the Lokar ferrule at high throttle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136046&d=1602117681 (pedal at rest)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136047&d=1602117691 (high throttle)

As shown above, as the throttle pedal is depressed, the cable begins to rub against the top of the Lokar ferrule. For completeness sake, this is how the Russ Thompson setup looks:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136048&d=1602117704

Is this something I should be concerned about? If so, does anyone have any suggestions about how to solve the chafing issue?

[D Stand]

Could you simply drill a new hole about 3/8” lower on the pedal and move the cable attachment down?

[TMartinLVNV]

It looks pretty good the way you set yours up. I have one suggestion for you though with your throttle return springs. Take a look at how I did mine.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/pp213/tmartinlvnv/IMG_20200903_093312930.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://photobucket.com/u/tmartinlvnv/p/a2bf915b-77c3-463e-9e9a-7ee4ec6fc9c1)

I originally used the small hole to hook the two springs into as well. I did not like pulling on the springs at an angle and they would bind sometimes. So I used one of the unused brackets in the second slot and mounted it upside down to hook the spring to. It keeps things must more in line. I also replaced the stainless steel hex socket bolts/nuts with chromed ones. The stainless galled and locked up on me. Finally, I put the yellow paint pen mark on the side of the mount to be able to quickly see if the adjustable brackets slipped forward. There is quite bit of pressure on them.

As far as your throttle pedal goes, I adjusted it back and used the back wall as my throttle stop. You want that throttle pedal at least an inch, if not more, lower than your brake pedal. But, you also want to ensure that you are able to get near 100% WOT. It is fun getting it all worked out. BTW, making adjustments to the pedals when the body is on SUCKS!

[TMartinLVNV]

"Is this something I should be concerned about? If so, does anyone have any suggestions about how to solve the chafing issue?"

I don't think so. That part is polished smooth. Mine does the same thing. But I'm certainly not an expert.

[Railroad]

Shortening the threaded end of the cable cover would improve the angle. You can make up the adjustment on the other end.

[Fman]

I’m slowly making progress toward my first engine start. Today I installed the headers. Nothing unusual or problematic to report. I found this YouTube video helpful for showing the proper procedure for installing the FFR-supplied “Mr. Gasket” aluminum header gaskets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3l3MQHqpas. As it instructs, I attached the two outer bolts first, leaving them loose, then I slipped the gasket from the top over those two bolts, and everything lined up perfectly. That’s a nice design! If I hadn’t watched that video first, I probably would have done something much more tedious and frustrating. So kudos to Mr. Gasket!

Per the Mr. Gasket video (and other info I found online), I did not use any gasket sealant. But I did apply some Loctite Blue to the header bolts, per the FFR instructions. Here are the installed headers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135972&d=1601947440 (passenger's side)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135973&d=1601947453 (driver's side)

I also attached the Sniper oxygen sensor into the port in the DS header, as shown above. I routed the cable up and away from the heat source, per the Sniper instructions.

One other thing I did is reinforce my bracket for the hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Originally, I had riveted the L-shaped bracket to the frame rail. But the more I worked on the car, the more I realized that the bracket was too flimsy. It was already starting to wobble back and forth. So I removed the rivets and tapped holes for ¼ inch stainless steel screws. I also installed zinc-plated steel L-brackets (cut to fit) on the backside of the mounting bracket. Now it's solid as a rock!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135974&d=1601947474

As always, please let me know if you see anything wrong in the pictures above.

JB, question for you on the headers. I am running the same setup and getting ready to install my headers. I was told today by FFR via email they do not use loctite on the header bolts and to torque them down to 40 ft lbs which seems high to me. Maybe someone can chime in and expand on this? It makes sense to me to use loctite to prevent them from coming loose but I am concerned about the heat cycles causing the bolts to seize into the head and never being able to be remove them without breaking them off. Are you using blue or red loctite?

Thanks for sharing that video, nice tip on the two end bolts

[JB in NOVA]

Fman, I used Loctite blue on the header bolts, but I must confess I didn't consult anything other than the FFR manual, which says on p. 235 that "Thread locker is recommended." Before I start the engine and subject them to heat cycles, I too would be interested to hear from others whether thread locker is recommended on the header bolts. Thanks for bringing this up.

[TMartinLVNV]

Fman, I used Loctite blue on the header bolts, but I must confess I didn't consult anything other than the FFR manual, which says on p. 235 that "Thread locker is recommended." Before I start the engine and subject them to heat cycles, I too would be interested to hear from others whether thread locker is recommended on the header bolts. Thanks for bringing this up.

I've never heard of using any thread locker on header bolts. This is a mighty hot spot of the motor and I don't know if any thread locker would hold up. There are several mechanical bolt locking products out there. I used the Stage 8 setup. There are several threads on here about locking header bolts. Lots of choices out there.

[jrcuz]

I used ARP studs on mine and copper RTV.
JR

[JB in NOVA]

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! I will be ordering a set of mechanical bolt lockers for my headers, per your recommendation.

[JB in NOVA]

This weekend, I mostly completed my heater installation. As a reminder, this includes a “bump out” box to allow the heater to be installed with a full sized FFR glovebox. Here is the Vintage Air heater motor installed on the bump-out box with the supplied 90-degree fittings, the shutoff valve, and the coolant lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136219&d=1602461638

I was definitely nervous about clearance issues after a cautionary comment from a more experienced builder (see post #107) but, luckily, I managed to squeak by. As shown below, I have about ½ inch clearance between the aluminum heater fittings and the PS valve cover:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136220&d=1602461653

Of course, this was just pure, dumb luck. If anyone else does this particular bump-out mod with a SBF engine, I recommend moving the box at least 1 inch more toward the passenger side to provide better clearance. I should also mention that I had a contingency plan, which was to cut the copper tubes coming out of the heater core and install compression fittings with 90-degree turns. I will continue to monitor my clearance issue after engine start and go-carting to see if I might still need to resort to that plan. But, so far, it looks like I squeaked by.

I routed the supply and return hoses along lower PS frame rail as shown below:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136229&d=1602462075

Per Blueprint’s instructions, I attached the heater supply line to the port behind the water-temperature (dashboard) sensor, and I attached the return line to the barbed fitting on the water pump:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136222&d=1602461679 (heater supply line)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136223&d=1602461694 (heater return line)

To make these fittings, I used pre-bent 5/8-inch hose segments from my local auto parts store. Otherwise, it would have been impossible to make these connections without kinking the hose.

With the bump-out modification, my FFR glove box abuts the heater core with basically zero clearance:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136224&d=1602461727

So it looks like the dimensions of my bump-out box (9” x 6.5” x 2.5”) were exactly right. But again, I strongly recommend locating the entire box at least an inch more toward the PS edge of the firewall to avoid any “nervousness” about clearance issues with the PS valve cover, like I experienced.

[JB in NOVA]

A few more notes about my heater install. The wiring was straight-forward. I ran the wires though a grommet in the PS firewall extension. For the vent tubing, since I don’t need a defroster (no top), I ran both the heater and defroster ports to four swivel louvers under the dash.

For the far DS and PS louvers, I fashioned some under-dash extenders to make room for the extra louvers:


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136225&d=1602461741 (DS)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136226&d=1602461755 (PS)

I purchased the 2” chrome-finish louvers here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LEV9MYE/. Here’s how they look under the dash:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136227&d=1602461777

With the heater motor on (especially on the highest setting), the vents put out an impressive amount of air. I’m hoping that in warm weather, with the coolant shutoff valve closed, this will serve the same purpose as forced fresh-air vents. If I get hot coolant “bleed-through” the knob-controlled shutoff valve, I might consider installing a manual shutoff valve in the engine compartment that I can close during warm weather.

One thing I’m still noodling is how to get rid of this vent tube arc, which I understand will interfere with body fitment:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136228&d=1602461792

I’m leaning toward fabricating a thin, flat manifold to get past the glove box area (as others have recommended). Still thinking about how to do that . . .

[JB in NOVA]

Today I completed filling and bleeding the hydraulic clutch system. I started this process on Friday but ran into a problem, which I’ve now resolved. For background, I’m running a TKO600 transmission with a McLeod hydraulic clutch from Blueprint. I used a -4AN braided steel line from the bulkhead fitting on the inner DS footbox panel to the clutch, which I purchased here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009Q7643A/

Bleeding the McLeod hydraulic clutch is a bit tedious because when you loosen the bleeder valve, it also loosens the compression fitting, which lets air into the line. Because of this, McLeod recommends submerging the entire bleeder valve in a cup of brake fluid during the bleed process and then reaching into the cup to close the bleeder valve once the air bubbles stop. I used the bleed technique shown in this video: https://youtu.be/wgc7ApCMTGA.

The bleed process went fine, and my clutch pedal felt firm. But when I tested the clutch, I could not get the transmission into first gear. I could get it into every other gear, but not first. I initially suspected air in the system, so I re-bled the lines. But again, I could not get the transmission into first gear.

After that, I contacted Johnny at Blueprint, who suggested a few potential remedial actions. The easiest of those was simply to rotate the shaft to see if the transmission would naturally fall into place. To do that, I inserted the splined drive shaft into the transmission and slowly rotated it by hand. As soon as I did that, I heard a “click” in the transmission. I continued for a couple revolutions, then I re-tested the clutch. Happily, it went into first gear with ease. All other gears, too. Problem solved!

On a more personal note, we celebrated my birthday this weekend, and it seems my family is really starting to embrace my Roadster project. The T-shirt was a gift from my wife:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136279&d=1602556825

She’s having fun picking out color combinations. Meanwhile, progress continues . . .

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for the tip on the hydraulic bleed, JB.

Awesome shirt! I will hit the big Five-Oh next year...will that qualify me to wear one? :p

[jrcuz]

Good to see the easy fix for 1st gear. Awesome shirt!
JR

[RJD]

Happy birthday! And glad you resolved the first gear issue.

[JB in NOVA]

One more quick update about my heater install. As I noted above, I wanted to figure out a way to flatten the conduit from the outboard heater core outlet to the DS heater vent because I understand the hose will interfere with body fitment if it bows up above the dash hoop as it goes over the glove box.

Taking a cue from other build threads, I decided to fashion a thin, flat plenum that can carry the airflow past the glove box without rising up above the dash hoop. I used aluminum flashing material, which is very thin and easy to work with but rigid enough to hold its shape. I fashioned an L-shaped plenum roughly 2.75 inches wide and 0.75 thick, cut a hole at the bottom of the L, and attached it to a 2.75 inch box with a matching hole on the top and a hose inlet on the side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136298&d=1602633887

I covered the entire thing with aluminum tape to seal all the holes and hold everything together:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136299&d=1602633907

I cut one of the unused defroster vents to fit and inserted it into the opening at the end, secured it with screws, and sealed it with aluminum tape. This left an oval fitting for the 2” flexible hose:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136300&d=1602633931

Finally, I installed it by pushing the heater core stub directly into the 2.75” plenum box and attaching a flexible 2” hose to the other end:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136301&d=1602633951

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136302&d=1602633966

I ran the heater motor and got good air flow from all four vents (although the far vent is a bit weaker, as would be expected given the tortuous path I put it through). Anyway, I’m happy with how it turned out, and I hope this avoids any interference with the body when I install it.

[John Ibele]

That looks really well done, and I'm taking notes for when I get to that point. Man, you've made fast progress. You must be itching to turn the ignition key pretty soon :p

[ydousurf]

Genius! Way to think out, er, inside the box ;) I may have to borrow that idea too.

Dj

[BadAsp427]

This weekend, I mostly completed my heater installation. As a reminder, this includes a “bump out” box to allow the heater to be installed with a full sized FFR glovebox. Here is the Vintage Air heater motor installed on the bump-out box with the supplied 90-degree fittings, the shutoff valve, and the coolant lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136219&d=1602461638

I was definitely nervous about clearance issues after a cautionary comment from a more experienced builder (see post #107) but, luckily, I managed to squeak by. As shown below, I have about ½ inch clearance between the aluminum heater fittings and the PS valve cover:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136220&d=1602461653

Of course, this was just pure, dumb luck. If anyone else does this particular bump-out mod with a SBF engine, I recommend moving the box at least 1 inch more toward the passenger side to provide better clearance. I should also mention that I had a contingency plan, which was to cut the copper tubes coming out of the heater core and install compression fittings with 90-degree turns. I will continue to monitor my clearance issue after engine start and go-carting to see if I might still need to resort to that plan. But, so far, it looks like I squeaked by.

.
Wow. Close. Nice job. Now the only concer is if you ever have to remove that PS valve cover. It’s all looking great!

[JB in NOVA]

I didn’t have much time for the Roadster project this week, but one thing I managed to do is install the power steering lines and fittings that I purchased from Breeze. The kit from Breeze contains a braided steel hose for the PS rack outlet that must be cut to length and finished with the supplied AN fittings. It also includes a rubber hose for the PS rack inlet, which requires one AN fitting on the rack side. Not surprisingly (coming from Breeze), all the fittings were high quality and were the proper size and shape to fit the PS rack and pump perfectly.

Here are the installed lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136490&d=1603066903
(connections at rack – Breeze fittings on the right)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136491&d=1603066925
(connections at pump - the rubber inlet hose can be seen below the pump)

I filled the system with power steering fluid and turned the steering wheel back and forth several times to get some air out of the lines. Everything looks and feels fine, except I have a small leak from the inlet port on the PS rack. I’ve tried tightening the fitting into the port a bit more, but the leak seems to persist. I don’t have problems with any of the other fittings. I suspect it’s an O-ring problem (either crushed, misaligned, or improperly installed).

The Breeze instructions say to look at the inlet and outlet ports on the PS rack to determine if they are chamfered to accept an O-ring. If not, they say to use sealing washers, known as Dowty Bonded Seals, to capture the O-ring on its outside diameter. The instructions specifically state: “New racks supplied by Factory Five Racing lack that chamfer and in that case you will add the included sealing washers.”

Long story short, I have a new Factory Five PS rack and I did not see a chamfer in these ports, so I used the sealing washers as instructed by Breeze. But now that I’m experiencing a leak, I’m wondering whether I got that wrong. If anyone out there has the same setup as me (new Factory Five PS rack), can you confirm whether the ports are already chamfered to accept an O-ring?

Any other advice on this issue would be appreciated. Thanks.

[GWL]

While this may not answer your question, I'll add my experience. Back in 2011 I got my PS rack from Breeze which were rebuilt racks. My rack required 'O' rings. I installed the rack and later when I went to hook up my lines I noticed that the rebuilders, when painting the rack, had gotten some paint in the tapered section where the 'O' ring needed to seal on more than one spot. I preceded to use some dental tools I had and slowly removed the paint, little piece by little piece followed with some real fine abrasive paper to finish up. I had the ports plugged up with some paper towels to keep debris out. This was done from under the car while the rack was mounted on the chassis.

Long story short, no leaks.....at the PS ports anyway. I did have one small leak at the reservoir, but that was my fault, and it only required some tightening.

George

[TMartinLVNV]

I have the F5 rack and the Breeze fittings. I did not use the washers. The O rings were all that was necessary for a leak free connection. Be careful, this is easy to over tighten and squeeze the O ring out of place. It does not take much.

[JB in NOVA]

Gentlemen, thank you for your advice! Tomorrow I will disconnect the rack-side PS connections and reinstall without the sealing washers. Hopefully that will solve the problem. I had a “feeling” the sealing washers were not the way to go, but as I’ve learned, it’s pretty hard to determine whether a threaded port has an O-ring chamfer. It’s a subtle thing.

In the meantime, I think I’ve got the coolant system buttoned up. I used the Boig “cool tubes” for the upper and lower radiator hose connections. Great product, easy to install, and everything fit together very nicely! For the upper connection, I trimmed about an inch of the 90-degree rubber connection to the pump to get the in-line filler cap approximately even with the frame rails:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136535&d=1603158285

Here is the lower hose connection:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136536&d=1603158300

Where the lower connection passes beneath the X-frame member, I used a section of rubber hose, secured with zip ties, to cushion any vibration, as many have suggested:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136537&d=1603158319

For the overflow tank, I read many threads about how the FFR tank is “marginal” at best in terms of capacity. But I decided to go ahead and install it to see how it works. If I need to replace it with a larger tank later, so be it.

I fabricated a couple brackets and angled the connection holes so that the tank would be more-or-less vertical and upright when installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136538&d=1603158333

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136539&d=1603158351

Once everything was installed and tightened up, I filled the system with about 3 ½ gallons of 50/50 distilled water and Prestone concentrate antifreeze. So far, everything looks good!

Progress continues . . .

[egchewy79]

those tubes look great. I had to get my lower tube custom bent as my water pump comes off the PS instead of the DS. stupid pre 1969 engines...
I would recommend renting a pressure testing kit from your local napa to check for coolant leaks. i found a small leak at my heater return nipple that i would have been chasing down for months if it wasn't for the pressure testing kit.

[JB in NOVA]

I’ve been working on getting everything ready for engine start. First, an update on my PS leak. As Terry suggested, I disconnected the Breeze rack fittings and removed the sealing washers. As an aside, I knew it would release fluid when I loosened those connections, so I had a bucket to catch the PS fluid, but it still made quite a mess given the location of the connections above the rack and the 4” frame tube. Lesson learned: I should have used the “turkey baster” method to suck fluid out of the reservoir first.

Anyway, I reinstalled the fittings without the sealing washers. One fit just fine, but the other had a larger O-ring that squeezed against the outside of the port and just didn’t look right. I know the inlet and outlet PS ports are different sizes, so I understand why the Breeze O-rings are different sizes, but this one just seemed too large. I replaced it with a smaller O-ring that came on one of the plastic plugs with the PS rack, and it snugged up perfectly. I refilled the system, moved the steering wheel from lock to lock several times, and . . . no leaks! I will keep an eye on this when the engine starts and the system is fully pressurized.

Next, I connected the drive shaft to the rear axle. My kit did not include the required bolts for some reason, but FFR sent them to me right away. I purchased a 12mm, 12-point socket to drive the bolts. Everything mated together fine, and I torqued to 70 ft-lbs per the FFR manual.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136615&d=1603323272

I will adjust the pinion angle later.

Next, I filled the engine with break-in oil. I used this product:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136616&d=1603323296

It has the high zinc and phosphorus content that BPE recommends. My engine took 7 quarts to fill.

Finally, I filled the transmission with Dexron III ATF. It took just shy of 3 quarts. I used this technique:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136617&d=1603323319 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136618&d=1603323333

It was kind of cool watching the blood-red ATF fluid run down the clear plastic tubing into the TKO600. I felt like Dr. Frankenstein bringing a monster to life!

At this point, I’ve got the engine wired, sensors installed, the entire system filled with engine oil, PS fluid, coolant, and transmission fluid, plus 3 gallons of gas in the tank. I’ve got no leaks. I can hear the fuel pump coming to life when I key on, and I’ve programmed the Sniper EFI with the basic presets. I plan to do the BPE pre-start technique tomorrow (turning the engine over several times without a spark to move fluids around). In the meantime, does anyone see anything I still need to do before I start this beast?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136619&d=1603323348

I think she’s ready!

[nuhale]

maybe a little late but filling the trans is a pain from the side plug. going in from the top cover so much easier... CAPTIAN HINDSIGHT TO THE RESCUE!


GOOD LUCK ON THE START! Post Video. For me was one of the best parts other than the first legal drive.

[jrcuz]

I have 1 thing JB MAKE SURE YOUR VIDEO CAMERA BATTERY IS CHARGED. HA HA. Good Luck.
JR

[nuhale]

What ATF did you use for the 600? The spec is specific. I used Pennzoil Synchromesh in mine but don't recall standard ATF fluid as spec.

"For all TKO 5-speed models, TREMEC recommends TREMEC HP-MTF, GM Synchromesh™ or Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. For all other aftermarket models we recommend Dexron III ATF"

[JB in NOVA]

Nuhale, thanks for the heads-up. It looks like I read that spec incorrectly. Now I see it refers to all TKO 5-speed models, which would include the TKO600. FWIW, American Powertrain says that, for the TKO600, "[y]ou can use standard Dexron III ATF for break-in, but it must be drained after the break-in period and replaced with Synchromesh or Mobil1 ATF as your permanent fluid." https://americanpowertrain.com/ufaqs/what-fluid-should-i-use-and-how-much/

Nevertheless, I will drain and replace with one of the recommended fluids now. Thanks again for catching that!

[VAHokie]

Hey JB, I ended up using the GM Synchromesh part #12345349 per the Tremec installation tips doc that came with my trans. I picked it up from the local GM dealership. Interestingly, in the Maintenance section of the instructions it states "Recommended oil change intervals should be based on specific usage. In most cases a "fill for life" is adequate, while in severe applications such as drag racing or road racing a more frequent oil change should be prescribed." I tend to be overly cautious with these types of things and will likely drain and replace after the 500 mile break-in period.

Look forward to seeing your first start video!

[Nigel Allen]

Loved the Frankenstein bit. I felt exactly the same way when doing mine. All the best for your start up.

Cheers,

Nigel

[JB in NOVA]

Just a quick update. Today I drained the transmission fluid and replaced it with the correct fluid. This time, I used Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. Here’s the “wrong” fluid leaving the system via the drain plug:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136692&d=1603506679

Thanks again FFR forum for saving me from myself! Yet another newbie lesson learned.

After getting that fixed, I moved on to Blueprint’s recommended priming procedure. As instructed, I disconnected the spark plugs and the coil output to prevent a spark, and I used my fuel pump cutoff switch to prevent the fuel pump from receiving power. After checking everything one last time, I turned the key and . . . nothing. Not even a sound.

With the “sad trombone” music still playing in my head, I resisted the urge to get frustrated. It was obviously an electrical problem. I broke out my multimeter and quickly identified the culprit as the clutch safety switch. I had wired it as instructed in the RF manual with the wires connected to the rear prongs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136693&d=1603506695

But when I did a continuity test with the multimeter, it showed an open circuit in both positions of the switch. In contrast, the forward prongs showed continuity when the pedal was depressed and an open circuit when released, which seemed correct. So I switched the wires to the forward prongs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136694&d=1603506712

After checking everything again, I depressed the clutch pedal, turned the key, and it cranked! To ensure proper functionality, I tried to crank with the clutch pedal at rest, and it did not crank. So I’m assuming I got this right. I’m not sure why the RF manual shows it differently.

With that out of the way, I followed the BPE instructions and cranked for 20 seconds, rested a minute, then cranked again for 20 seconds. I did this three times. I observed no leaks in any of my lines, and everything looked and sounded good. Then I rechecked and topped off the fluids.

In terms of oil pressure, the gauges seem to be de-powered during cranking (which I guess is normal?), so I didn’t actually see any oil pressure during cranking. But when I released the key, I observed the oil pressure needle jump up and then slowing sink back down to zero. I’m assuming that indicates I was getting oil pressure during crank.

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my setup or my pre-start procedure. Please let me know. Next, I will be installing the side pipes, and I think I’ll be ready.

[Nigel Allen]

If your gauges are not powered when cranking, then maybe you have them wired to the accessories terminal instead of the ignition terminal on the key switch.

[edwardb]

In terms of oil pressure, the gauges seem to be de-powered during cranking (which I guess is normal?), so I didn’t actually see any oil pressure during cranking. But when I released the key, I observed the oil pressure needle jump up and then slowing sink back down to zero. I’m assuming that indicates I was getting oil pressure during crank.

Gauge power feed is on the "ACC FED" section of the Ron Francis panel. The ignition switch turns off the accessories when in the start position. So your gauges are de-powered along with the radio, wiper and heater during cranking. Totally normal and designed to make maximum power available while cranking. You can see the three sections of the panel on the Ron Francis wiring diagram. IGN FED = on any time key is on in run or start, ACC FED = on when key in accessory position or run, BATT FED = always on.

[Nigel Allen]

If you are keen to see oil pressure, you could jumper a wire between the accessories and ignition terminals whilst you are doing the prestart testing.

[egchewy79]

I had the same issue with my clutch safety switch. The manual had it wrong or they changed switches in the kit.

[RJD]

I had the same experience with the clutch safety switch.

With respect to the oil pressure, I think it may be normal on these gauges to get little or no oil pressure during cranking. I had the same experience as you and consulted with BPE. They said a manual oil pressure gauge would give a more immediate confirmation of oil pressure during cranking. So I bought one and tried again. The manual gave me a reading of 55psi whereas the dash gauge barely registered during cranking.

[JB in NOVA]

First engine start today! Started on the first try, and no leaks! What a fun day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNQVQkfMF8&feature=youtu.be

Thanks again, FFR forum for all your help so far! I couldn't have done it without you.

[RJD]

Congratulations!

[TMartinLVNV]

Nice jump from your friend there :p

Congrats! It is a big step.

[jrcuz]

Very nice JB, congratulations!
JR

[jiriza84641]

CONGRATS, just. dropped the coyote in my build today, ran a few wires.

[egchewy79]

Congrats! Amazing how good that feels, right?

[460.465USMC]

Wahoo! Great accomplishment, JB! You must feel very satisfied to have such a great success first try...and no leaks! Can't wait until I get there someday.

[Caddy Dad]

Nice! Congratulations on a major milestone.

[KDubU]

Congrats! Sounds awesome.

[Straversi]

Congratulations. Those side pipes always shock the bystanders.
-Steve

[bldr.rob]

Congratulations! A great day!

[John Ibele]

... and there it is! Fantastic, great to see it start up without a hitch. What a great milestone!

[VAHokie]

Congrats, JB! Sounds great.

[Fman]

Congrats! Sounds great!

[nucjd19]

So exciting to see it fire up! Good on you!

[JB in NOVA]

Today, I installed the driver’s side lap belt and shoulder harness. I also inserted the seat warmers and re-verified their operation:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137044&d=1604277375

I’m getting excited for my first go-cart drive. But I have a problem that is basically a show-stopper at this point. I’m hoping someone smarter than me will have a solution to it! Although my engine starts fine and runs OK (albeit a little rough), the EFI system does not register any coolant temperature. It just says “CTF, F – LOW Err.” Here’s a screen shot during idle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137045&d=1604277389

My dashboard coolant temperature gauge works fine, and I’ve let the engine warm all the way up, but still I get “LOW Err” on the Sniper handheld. I have two different CTS sensors--one for the dashboard gauge and one for the Sniper, which was installed by Blueprint. Here’s a picture of the Sniper CTS, with purple and green wires that come directly out of the Sniper housing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137046&d=1604277417

When I swap the leads between the sensors for the dashboard gauge and the EFI system, I still get proper gauge readout but no Sniper readout. This leads me to believe the sensor is not malfunctioning. There is something wrong between the sensor and the Sniper control.

I have taken the Sniper CTS connector off and tested voltage across the purple and green leads, and I get zero volts with the system powered up. In contrast, my FFR gauge lead shows +5V, which I believe is normal for a CTS sensor. So it doesn’t look like I’m getting any voltage to the Sniper CTS sensor.

Finally, on one of the Sniper display screens, I see an indication of “Coolant Enr, % -- 120.0.” I don’t know what this means, and I’m wondering if this might be a clue to my problem:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137047&d=1604277438

For completeness sake, here is a screen shot of my basic EFI configuration:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137048&d=1604277450

I’ve already ordered a replacement CTS sensor, which I will install when it arrives. But I’m not very optimistic this will solve the problem, given that the current sensor works fine when hooked up to the dashboard gauge.

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks.

[Caddy Dad]

Interesting. I have the same BPE engine/EFI/Trans set up and I didn't have this issue. Obviously, BPE dyno'd it at one point and everything was fine. I'd double check all your connections in the Sniper wiring harness. Make sure no wires are pinched etc. Just curious, when you ran your engine up to temperature, did the cooling fan kick on and off? Those temps are/can be set with the handheld and controlled through the EFI computer. I'm pretty sure the EFI uses the CTS input to turn on and off the fan.

Following your thread.
Thanks!

[Papa]

The coolant enrichment value is used when the coolant is cold to provide more fuel during cold starts. At a value of 120%, your coolant temp should be ~60 degrees F.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137067&d=1604332941

That said, I've always had a valid readout for coolant temp, even at ambient temperatures. Sounds like a problem with the wiring in the Sniper.

[JB in NOVA]

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! Today, I received a new CTS and tested it. As expected, it did not work. So, unfortunately, it looks like the problem is internal to the Sniper system. The good news is that Blueprint has been great to work with, and they are in the process of getting a new Sniper shipped to me. So I guess I’ll be learning how to install that soon!

A bit of a bummer, but I’m sure I’ll get it worked out eventually. In the meantime, I fitted up my DS roll bar in preparation for (someday) go-karting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137199&d=1604532609

I drilled the three bottom holes, but I haven’t yet drilled the hole for the so-called “Frankenstein bolt” at the top. I know some folks have installed a hidden fastening system, like this one: https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/products/bolt-less-roll-bar-kit-15-inch. But at $80 a pop, I’m not sure it’s worth it, so I’m leaning toward just dressing up the Frankenstein bolt with a SS acorn nut and being done with it. Unless, of course, someone talks me out of it :).

Progress continues . . .

[Papa]

Swapping over to the new Sniper will be pretty simple. Disconnect the fuel lines and unplug the Sniper harnesses, remove the old and replace with the new and reconnect. You'll need to run through the setup wizard and can actually transfer your tune from the old unit to the new one if you save it off first.

[Railroad]

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! Today, I received a new CTS and tested it. As expected, it did not work. So, unfortunately, it looks like the problem is internal to the Sniper system. The good news is that Blueprint has been great to work with, and they are in the process of getting a new Sniper shipped to me. So I guess I’ll be learning how to install that soon!

A bit of a bummer, but I’m sure I’ll get it worked out eventually. In the meantime, I fitted up my DS roll bar in preparation for (someday) go-karting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137199&d=1604532609

I drilled the three bottom holes, but I haven’t yet drilled the hole for the so-called “Frankenstein bolt” at the top. I know some folks have installed a hidden fastening system, like this one: https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/products/bolt-less-roll-bar-kit-15-inch. But at $80 a pop, I’m not sure it’s worth it, so I’m leaning toward just dressing up the Frankenstein bolt with a SS acorn nut and being done with it. Unless, of course, someone talks me out of it :).

Progress continues . . .

I drilled mine for the bolt. After some swapping for acorn and ruby nuts, I tapped the holes for the next size up, I think 3/8-16 and put a stainless button head allen bolt in both sides. I have passenger roll bar, so I got to do it twice.
I think Kliener mentioned this as an option.
My local Ace Hdw had these in 3/4" length which was perfect.

137221

[JB in NOVA]

I drilled mine for the bolt. After some swapping for acorn and ruby nuts, I tapped the holes for the next size up, I think 3/8-16 and put a stainless button head allen bolt in both sides. I have passenger roll bar, so I got to do it twice.
I think Kliener mentioned this as an option.
My local Ace Hdw had these in 3/4" length which was perfect.

137221

I like that! I think that's what I'll do. Thanks for the tip.

[JB in NOVA]

While I'm waiting for my Sniper replacement, I managed to get a few things done this week. First, I set the ride height. As many on the forum have advised (and as taught in the build school), I used stacks of three 2X4s under the 4-inch frame tubes in the front to set the front ride height at 4.5 inches. I jacked the car up, adjusted both Koni collars so that they just touched the bottom of the coils, then lowered the car toward the stacked 2X4’s and observed the gap. I jacked up the car again and adjusted the collars an equal number of turns on both sides and repeated this process until the frame tubes just barely touched the stacks of 2X4s. In the rear, I did the same except I added a ½” piece of wood for a rear ride height of 5 inches. Once the ride height was set, I tightened the set screws on the Koni collars.

With that completed, I set the pinion angle on the drive shaft. I used the Tremac app, which allows you to use your iphone to measure the three critical angles: (1) transmission angle, (2) drive shaft angle, and (3) rear axle angle. Here’s what I got:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137336&d=1604873103

Tremac rewarded me for being “within specification.” So I guess that’s that. I will be sure to revisit this once I have a few miles on the car to make sure I’m still within spec.

Finally, with my dad visiting, I decided to put him to work for a rough front-end alignment. NOTE: My only goal here was to get the front end into the general “ballpark” of a proper alignment. I don’t have the tools or the skills to do an actual alignment.

For toe, we ran a string parallel to the rear tire and measured the gap between the front wheel rim and the string at the front and the rear of the front wheel. We adjusted the tie rod until the rear gap was 1/16” less than the front gap. We did the same on the other side. If I understand correctly, this should represent an overall toe of about 1/8” inward (roughly).

For camber, we used a piece of wood cut to length so that it wedged between the upper and lower ridges of the front rims. We used a level to get this perpendicular. Then we used an angle-finder app on my iphone to measure the camber. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves to get the camber to about -1 degree on both sides.

For caster, we put the front wheels on folded-over garbage bags to allow them to turn without too much friction. We turned the wheels one direction 20 degrees (we used a straight edge and a protractor to get the angle approximately right) and measured the camber using the same procedure above. Then we turned the wheel until it was 20 degrees in the opposite direction and measured the camber. My understanding is that the difference between these two angles is an approximate estimate of caster. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves until this value was between +7 and +8 degrees. We repeated the process on both sides.

Finally, we went through and did all the measurements again to make sure everything was still roughly within spec. It was. Good enough to drive, I think.

I also greased all the zerk fittings. I found this thread particularly helpful: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35843-grease-points-16
On my MK4, I found 18 zerk fittings in total: 7 on each side of the front suspension, and 2 on each side of the rear control arms. I did not see any grease fittings on the drive shaft U-joint, so I’m assuming I have the sealed variety.

[egchewy79]

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! Today, I received a new CTS and tested it. As expected, it did not work. So, unfortunately, it looks like the problem is internal to the Sniper system. The good news is that Blueprint has been great to work with, and they are in the process of getting a new Sniper shipped to me. So I guess I’ll be learning how to install that soon!

A bit of a bummer, but I’m sure I’ll get it worked out eventually. In the meantime, I fitted up my DS roll bar in preparation for (someday) go-karting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137199&d=1604532609

I drilled the three bottom holes, but I haven’t yet drilled the hole for the so-called “Frankenstein bolt” at the top. I know some folks have installed a hidden fastening system, like this one: https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/products/bolt-less-roll-bar-kit-15-inch. But at $80 a pop, I’m not sure it’s worth it, so I’m leaning toward just dressing up the Frankenstein bolt with a SS acorn nut and being done with it. Unless, of course, someone talks me out of it :).

Progress continues . . .

I have the 520 hidden system. I agree it's a bit expensive, but what's an extra$80 when I've come this far? I like the look without a bolt visible.

[egchewy79]

While I'm waiting for my Sniper replacement, I managed to get a few things done this week. First, I set the ride height. As many on the forum have advised (and as taught in the build school), I used stacks of three 2X4s under the 4-inch frame tubes in the front to set the front ride height at 4.5 inches. I jacked the car up, adjusted both Koni collars so that they just touched the bottom of the coils, then lowered the car toward the stacked 2X4’s and observed the gap. I jacked up the car again and adjusted the collars an equal number of turns on both sides and repeated this process until the frame tubes just barely touched the stacks of 2X4s. In the rear, I did the same except I added a ½” piece of wood for a rear ride height of 5 inches. Once the ride height was set, I tightened the set screws on the Koni collars.

With that completed, I set the pinion angle on the drive shaft. I used the Tremac app, which allows you to use your iphone to measure the three critical angles: (1) transmission angle, (2) drive shaft angle, and (3) rear axle angle. Here’s what I got:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137336&d=1604873103

Tremac rewarded me for being “within specification.” So I guess that’s that. I will be sure to revisit this once I have a few miles on the car to make sure I’m still within spec.

Finally, with my dad visiting, I decided to put him to work for a rough front-end alignment. NOTE: My only goal here was to get the front end into the general “ballpark” of a proper alignment. I don’t have the tools or the skills to do an actual alignment.

For toe, we ran a string parallel to the rear tire and measured the gap between the front wheel rim and the string at the front and the rear of the front wheel. We adjusted the tie rod until the rear gap was 1/16” less than the front gap. We did the same on the other side. If I understand correctly, this should represent an overall toe of about 1/8” inward (roughly).

For camber, we used a piece of wood cut to length so that it wedged between the upper and lower ridges of the front rims. We used a level to get this perpendicular. Then we used an angle-finder app on my iphone to measure the camber. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves to get the camber to about -1 degree on both sides.

For caster, we put the front wheels on folded-over garbage bags to allow them to turn without too much friction. We turned the wheels one direction 20 degrees (we used a straight edge and a protractor to get the angle approximately right) and measured the camber using the same procedure above. Then we turned the wheel until it was 20 degrees in the opposite direction and measured the camber. My understanding is that the difference between these two angles is an approximate estimate of caster. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves until this value was between +7 and +8 degrees. We repeated the process on both sides.

Finally, we went through and did all the measurements again to make sure everything was still roughly within spec. It was. Good enough to drive, I think.

I also greased all the zerk fittings. I found this thread particularly helpful: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35843-grease-points-16
On my MK4, I found 18 zerk fittings in total: 7 on each side of the front suspension, and 2 on each side of the rear control arms. I did not see any grease fittings on the drive shaft U-joint, so I’m assuming I have the sealed variety.

Make sure you run the string parallel to the frame, not the rear tires as they can be slightly off, making your measurements at the fronts way off. I tried skimming a line to barely touch the front and rear of the rear tires only to find out that my solid rear axle is a degree or so off 90*from the thrust line, making my distances from the string to my fronts off by an inch from side to side.

[JB in NOVA]

I received a replacement Sniper EFI from Blueprint. Blueprint was really great to work with, and they sent the replacement Sniper right away.

Papa is right, replacing the Sniper wasn’t hard at all. First, I disconnected all the electrical leads, the fuel hoses, and vacuum hoses:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137398&d=1605041141

Next, I disconnected the accelerator throttle linkage. Then I unbolted the Sniper unit from the four studs on top of the engine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137399&d=1605041155

After that, it comes right off:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137400&d=1605041187

I reinstalled the new one in reverse order, reconnected everything, crossed my fingers, and cranked the engine. Success! It started right up, and more importantly, my handheld unit showed the correct coolant temperature:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137401&d=1605041216

The idle was a bit fast, so I adjusted the idle set screw a bit, and it dialed right into the target idle speed of 900 rpm.

After that, there was nothing left to do but take it for a test drive! Here she is ready to launch:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137402&d=1605041234

And here’s her maiden voyage around the neighborhood:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qy9oe7YXac&t=1s

[RJD]

Nice! Congrats.

[TMartinLVNV]

Very good. I'm glad you have solved this issue. I am surprised as to how many Holley Sniper TB units need replacing. I've seen quite a few. Mine has been fine, but it is good to know that Holley/Blue Print takes care of the issue.

[egchewy79]

congrats! nothing like the first go kart experience. I love the family that was congregating on the 2nd lap to see what was going on. your camera has a weird depth perception and I thought you were going to run into something multiple times :)

[tmlint]

That looks like fun! Seeing how Blueprint took care of the issues with your Sniper makes me glad I went with one of their engines for my build.

[bldr.rob]

Congratulations! What a great day!

[Caddy Dad]

Congratulations on another major milestone! Engine sounds fantastic

[VAHokie]

Congrats and great video!