AWIC Shared Expansion Tank

[mrbiglar]

Is there any reason you can't share the expansion tank needed for an AWIC with the Engine Expansion tank? Just put a T on the line.

[Mechie3]

AWIC's don't need an expansion tank. I also believe that most run straight water (with various water wetters added) in the AWIC, not coolant.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

AWIC's don't need an expansion tank. I also believe that most run straight water (with various water wetters added) in the AWIC, not coolant.
I used a small 1 quart tank on both. Make it easy to see if I have a leak in either system. 126959

[STiPWRD]

The engine cooling loop runs at around 200F, the AWIC cooling loop runs at around 100F, you definitely DON'T want to mix them together. Not only will this really heat up the AWIC (and the air going into the engine), it would be a real pain to bleed. Like Mechie said, the AWIC doesn't need an expansion tank because the temperature is too low for boiling (i.e. no expansion happening).

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The engine cooling loop runs at around 200F, the AWIC cooling loop runs at around 100F, you definitely DON'T want to mix them together. Not only will this really heat up the AWIC (and the air going into the engine), it would be a real pain to bleed. Like Mechie said, the AWIC doesn't need an expansion tank because the temperature is too low for boiling (i.e. no expansion happening).

One of the reasons i added a tank to my awic system is because it is difficult to fill the intercooler more than 1/2 way without it.

[STiPWRD]

One of the reasons i added a tank to my awic system is because it is difficult to fill the intercooler more than 1/2 way without it.
I totally agree Bob, I've got a tank on the AWIC loop as well.
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[NevaLift2Shift]

I totally agree Bob, I've got a tank on the AWIC loop as well.
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This looks like it would be a lot of help getting as much air out of the system, as possible. Is that a custom tank?

[STiPWRD]

This looks like it would be a lot of help getting as much air out of the system, as possible. Is that a custom tank?
I found it used on ebay for about $30 but I believe it's a Canton tank from a mustang. The barbs work perfect for the 0.75" hose.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/products/80-233s-aluminum-expansion-tank-for-1996-2004-mustang-with-stock-cap.html

[Bicyclops]

How are you guys' induction temps with the AWICs? My tuner scoffed when I showed him a picture of the Frozen Boost unit. Says it'll never work worth a damn.

Ed Holyoke
Waiting for FFR to reopen and ship my kit

[Rob T]

I, too, have a small plastic expansion tank for the AWIC. In a number of hot track days, I typically run ambient +10F at the intake, driving about 7/10. I typically do 20 - 25 minute sessions. My AWIC radiator is located in front of the engine radiator and when Chad built the car, he put two fans in. One runs off of a thermostat and one runs off a switch in the cockpit, so that I can pull air through while waiting in the paddock or after a run leave that fan on to cool the awic a little more. The water pump is also manual....so that can be left on to cool the loop. If you find my build page, for several of the track days, I listed conditions for air temp, AWIC temp, oil temp, etc.

[STiPWRD]

How are you guys' induction temps with the AWICs? My tuner scoffed when I showed him a picture of the Frozen Boost unit. Says it'll never work worth a damn.

Ed Holyoke
Waiting for FFR to reopen and ship my kit

I haven't datalogged my air temps yet but these AWICs seem to work really well in 818s. Many others have posted their IATs over the years, like Rob says, they're usually 10F above ambient. In fact, I've never heard of anyone having an issue with the frozen boost setup, not sure why your tuner would doubt it.

[Mechie3]

I want to say that Bob had data at one point too. I have a dual temp in my AWIC but....haven't driven more than around the block. Are they the best units out there? No. Are they pretty good, especially for the price? Yeah. The only issue I've seen with them is welding to them is challenging and one of the front radiators had an o-ring on a plug that wasn't in a counterbore so I took it out and tapped it for a tapered thread.

Your tuner probably doesn't like them because they're from China. I've had different experiences from items from China and it 100% comes down to what the vendor is willing to accept. My day job is for a laboratory automation company and we order precision parts from China with tolerances of +/- .0005" and they work. We also specify the tolerances and quality and check it. It's not as cheap as it could be, but still cheaper than US sourced parts and just as good (sometimes better,depending on the US machine shop). I've also seen where a vendor wants the cheapest price point possible. China can, and will, manufacture to those specs. If price is king, quality suffers, if price and quality are balanced, you'll get a balanced product. A lot of so called "ebay" car parts from China are crap and so anything from China now has a bad name. I've used other frozenboost parts on my F600 without problems.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I want to say that Bob had data at one point too.

I have data logs of IAT but my sensor is in the stock position. It's in the cold air intake with the MAF sensor.
I have a temp sensor in the exit of the AWIC intercooler, but I have never wired it in.
I should do that, but I would have to give up oil temp or oil pressure logs.

If I just rewired the OEM IAT to my new IAT sensor, would I need to get a tune?

Bob

[Bicyclops]

I want to say that Bob had data at one point too. I have a dual temp in my AWIC but....haven't driven more than around the block. Are they the best units out there? No. Are they pretty good, especially for the price? Yeah. The only issue I've seen with them is welding to them is challenging and one of the front radiators had an o-ring on a plug that wasn't in a counterbore so I took it out and tapped it for a tapered thread.

Your tuner probably doesn't like them because they're from China. I've had different experiences from items from China and it 100% comes down to what the vendor is willing to accept. My day job is for a laboratory automation company and we order precision parts from China with tolerances of +/- .0005" and they work. We also specify the tolerances and quality and check it. It's not as cheap as it could be, but still cheaper than US sourced parts and just as good (sometimes better,depending on the US machine shop). I've also seen where a vendor wants the cheapest price point possible. China can, and will, manufacture to those specs. If price is king, quality suffers, if price and quality are balanced, you'll get a balanced product. A lot of so called "ebay" car parts from China are crap and so anything from China now has a bad name. I've used other frozenboost parts on my F600 without problems.

Yeah, I hear all that. His take was that it probably wasn't a true liquid/air core. Folks have reviewed them and said that they truly are and are also kinda rough. I don't care so much about that so as to spend 3X$. One thing I worry about is that with 1/2" NPT threads, the water flow is limited. Is 3/4" hose working out? Which pumps seem to work OK? Could the water ports be enlarged?

Been working on 4 wheel Caddy Brembos while I'm waiting for the kit to ship.

Ed Holyoke

[Mechie3]

Most people use the Bosch Cobra pump. Frozen boost sells them too at a decent price.

[Harley818]

I also used the Frozen boost intercooler with the Bosch pump Mechie mentioned.
My tuner said that this was the first Subaru he tuned where he didn't have a temperature problem during the tune.
I'm running about +10 degrees F to ambient like others.
The system is awesome and gives that reliability during hot days.

[iblackwe]

Does anyone run a system with antifreeze through their AWIC? Or is everyone using straight water? I won't be driving my car in freezing temps so I feel like this would actually be something I should consider. Looking for opinions, thanks!

Ian

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Does anyone run a system with antifreeze through their AWIC? Or is everyone using straight water? I won't be driving my car in freezing temps so I feel like this would actually be something I should consider. Looking for opinions, thanks!
Ian

I run antifreeze. My car sits in an unheated garage in the winter. sometimes get below 0F outside.

[iblackwe]

I run antifreeze. My car sits in an unheated garage in the winter. sometimes get below 0F outside.

And Bob you get good steady results with this? I feel like there shouldn't be to much of an efficiency difference with Antifreeze vs. just pure water

[Rob T]

I run water with "water wetter" in the engine and radiator.

[STiPWRD]

And Bob you get good steady results with this? I feel like there shouldn't be to much of an efficiency difference with Antifreeze vs. just pure water

I run just water in my AWIC. Water is as good as it gets when it comes to heat transfer, so any antifreeze in the mixture will reduce cooling efficiency. That's not to say your AWIC will perform poorly, it might be just fine. Keep in mind that the AWIC cooling loop runs much colder than the engine cooling loop, so on really cold days, if you have a lot of antifreeze in the mixture, it will really drive up the viscosity of the fluid and could be tough on the pump.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

And Bob you get good steady results with this? I feel like there shouldn't be to much of an efficiency difference with Antifreeze vs. just pure water

Yes, I get good results. I would not run just water, as corrosion would occur in the intercooler and heat exchanger reducing efficiency. My AWIC system is rated a 600 hp, I have no worries.
My pump and fluids ar the same as electric car companies are running through their battery packs to keep them cool.

Off-topic. Here is a video of the model 3 cooling system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

[Bicyclops]

Dragging up an old subject again. Are you guys getting good inlet temps using the FB standard Type 100 heat exchanger or does it need a bigger radiator? From some of the pix I've seen, it looks as if some of you guys are using larger heat exchangers.

Ed Holyoke
building 818S
2.14L stroker

[DMC7492]

Mrbiglar, yes that is the radiator here is a pic of mine on the install, it is in the front weldment by itself no engine radiator behind it so it works extremely well, like other mentioned post inter cooler at the engine temps entering at the throttle body run near ambient. My air intake for this is at the front splitter so the temps mimic road temp
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[Bicyclops]

Interesting. Where did you put your radiator?

Ed

[Dave 53]

Is it being suggested that by having an expansion tank, that will get the air out of the AWIC? Seems to me the only way to get the air out of the AWIC is having a bleed valve as high as possible on the AWIC.148458
I use distilled water with Water Wetter. We never used an expansion tank on shifter karts and they ran around 140 degrees.

[DMC7492]

The radiator was converted to a two radiator system one on each side behind the doors and in front of the rear tires. Some of the Manx Dune buggy guys were swapping in subaru engines. I took some ideas from them and had radiators built to fit behind the scoops and then redesigned the scoops. Tested this cruising at 25 and flying at 80 plus and all speeds in between the only time the cooling fans run is sitting at a stop light. For about 30 seconds.
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