Patrick's 427 Build

[Pat427]

I pulled the trigger and ordered my MKIV kit. Completion date is 2/2/19.

I have no knowledge or experience when it comes to building a car. I went to the Mott College Build school which was helpful, but I anticipate this forum will be the main source of help when problems arise.

I've been reading multiple build threads (EdwardB, Papa, Wareagle, etc) in preparation for my kit to arrive, so I already feel like I've learned a lot about problems and troubleshooting, although I'm sure the reality of what I'm getting myself into will set in once those 26 boxes arrive.

I only work about 15 days a month, so I anticipate I'll be able to dedicate a lot of time to the build. No kids (yet). No wife (yet).

My plan is as follows:

MK4 Complete kit-powder coated
IRS
427w engine Holly Sniper (from the Engine Factory) Pic at bottom.
In-tank Fuel system
Tremac TKO 600
Power Steering
Halibrand wheels
sway bars (front and rear)
Wildwood brakes (red calipers)
Drivers side chrome roll bar
Breeze Radiator shroud
Russ Thompson turn signal
Drop trunk.
Leather seats
Vintage gauges
Glove Box
Wind Visors
Sun Visors
Pre-assembled side louvers

Again, I'm the definition of a novice, so any help is MUCH appreciated. I look forward to the challenge.

Thanks in advance,

Pat.101527

[BadAsp427]

Welcome to the madness... This forum is a great place for a lot of great information from a lot of awesome people. That looks like a great engine/trans combination. I went with the BluePrint route as FFR has a great relationship with them.

Where are you located?

[Pat427]

I'm in South Carolina. If anyone is near, please chime in!

[BadAsp427]

I'm in South Carolina. If anyone is near, please chime in!

I'm in Summerville SC (Charleston)

[GoDadGo]

Welcome Aboard!

Check out the build threads of Edwardb.
His work is top notch and his threads supplement the heck out of the manuals.

Conventional V8 / Solid Axle With A 5-Link Twist
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8296-Mk4-7750-Build-Progress-Update

Coyote I.R.S. / Anniversary Additions
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardB%92s-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build

Also, we have several Master Builders here that will always lend some very helpful advice.
I'm not one of those Master Builders, but anything I can do to help is what you will find we all do for each other.

Again, Welcome Aboard!

[RR20AC]

Almost sounds exactly like my build and I am enjoying it thoughly. Breeze parts and forte parts diffent though.

[Pat427]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101525&d=1548959783

I'm just practicing uploading pictures. Here's a picture of my engine. I think it looks pretty good!

[Pat427]

I'm in Summerville SC (Charleston)


Thats great to hear!

I'm in Columbia. It's nice to know there is a forum member fairly close.

[BadAsp427]

Thats great to hear!

I'm in Columbia. It's nice to know there is a forum member fairly close.

You are welcome to come over pretty much anytime if you would like. If all goes well, DMV in your town will be sending me a title soon so I can do some legal driving and I will venture out further than the couple miles I've done so far. There is at least one other FFR Roadster here in the Charleston Area. He is just around the corner from me.

[VAHokie]

Welcome, Pat! Looks like a solid build and you're going to have a blast.

[Mead4Speed]

Hi Pat, IÂ’m in Columbia SC as well, although IÂ’m waiting until next Summer or Fall to pull the trigger on a roadster kit. IÂ’ll be keeping an eye on your build thread, best wishes

Dave

[Pat427]

Still working on how to embed pictures.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101650&d=1549143665

[David Hodgkins]

Still working on how to embed pictures.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101650&d=1549143665

NICE MOTOR!!

Inspecting your post, the pic was embedded correctly.

:)

[BadAsp427]

Still working on how to embed pictures.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101650&d=1549143665

Not sure what you mean by embedding photos. All I do is click on the insert image button and select the photo that I want to put in. I have several folders that keep my build photo organized on my computer. Do you not have that button above your reply window your type in to make an post?

101678

There is also a good post by the moderator at: CLICK HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts&p=212068&viewfull=1#post212068)

[Papa]

Welcome and I'm glad my build thread has been helpful. I spent two months in Columbia, but I can't say I had a good time. Fort Jackson for basic training in August was no fun. I learned what humidity was though.

Dave

[Pat427]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101727&d=1549233047

Still trying to practice posting pictures.

Can everyone see the above picture of my helper?

Thanks,

Pat

[Cruzzz]

You got it! I have a supervisor as well.

[Boydster]

Dogs are awesome.

[Yama-Bro]

Congrats and welcome! I can see your helper too.

[Fixit]

Yup, see the doggie...
Only problem I can see so far is that workbench is too damn clean!! (That'll get corrected all by itself in a month or two)

Your pic reminded me of when we remodeled my shop about 5 years ago when I pulled the bench vise off after 15 years of service - clean wood!
101803

[Pat427]

I Got Some Deliveries Today

I received my Wilwood brakes, TKO transmission and 427 Engine today. I'm definitely nervous and excited. Still waiting on that call from Stewart.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101813&d=1549479470


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101814&d=1549479489

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101815&d=1549479506

[Pat427]

First Step. Front Brakes.

Not a lot of updates. Still anxiously waiting that call from Stewart Transport.

I started on assembling my front brakes. I went with the Wilwood upgrade w/ red calipers. Gotta say these things feel as if they are high quality.
I've only assembled the hats and rotors of the front brakes and got the safety wiring done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101957&d=1549772770

I feel lucky that I didn't have any trouble getting the hats and rotors bolted together. There seemed to be powder coat in the threads of the hat and rotor. I was worried the powder coat would cause a problem and even possibly cross threading. When I was tightening the bolts I could definitley feel the powder coat getting in the way, but luckily the bolts went in without any cross threading. I'm gonna chalk that up to beginners luck.

According to the Wilwood assembly instructions, the bolts that attach the hat to the rotor were supposed to be torqued to 155 Inch/Lbs. I did not have an Inch/lb torque wrench, so I just converted Inch/lbs into Foot/lbs. The conversion is 155 Inch/lbs = 12.91 Foot/lbs, which is what I torqued the bolts down to. I don't think there is any issue using Foot/lbs as long the conversion is correct. If this is a problem please let me know.

Next is the rear brakes...



Any help or advice is MUCH appreciated.

Pat

[Fixit]

12ft/lbs sounds about right... You're already points ahead - there are many who have missed that little abbreviation "in/lbs" and tried to torque to 155ft/lbs (with expected results).

[BadAsp427]

Wilwoods Looks good. No problem converting to FtLbs... But take a second look at the one on the right in your photo. The safety wire at the 10:00 position in the photo looks like it may be pulling the bolt closest to the 9:00 position backwards. Also, on the one on the left, double check the one at 3:00. As the Wilwood instructions say, safety wire is an option, but if you have it you sure do not want it pulling backwards. You have a few others that seem to be pulling straight/neutral, while this is not optimal, it is not a major problem. Did you use any loctite? I see the tube in the photo. If this is your first time doing safety wire, you did really good. As a jet engine mechanic for the Air Force, I had tons of previous safety wire experience and had some fun doing mine.

[Pat427]

Wilwoods Looks good. No problem converting to FtLbs... But take a second look at the one on the right in your photo. The safety wire at the 10:00 position in the photo looks like it may be pulling the bolt closest to the 9:00 position backwards. Also, on the one on the left, double check the one at 3:00. As the Wilwood instructions say, safety wire is an option, but if you have it you sure do not want it pulling backwards. You have a few others that seem to be pulling straight/neutral, while this is not optimal, it is not a major problem. Did you use any loctite? I see the tube in the photo. If this is your first time doing safety wire, you did really good. As a jet engine mechanic for the Air Force, I had tons of previous safety wire experience and had some fun doing mine.


Yes, this is my first time with safety wiring. I had to re-do a few of them until I got the hang of it. Yes, I used Red Loctite on the bolts.

Thank you for the heads up about the ones pulling on each other. Will re-do them since I have nothing else to do at the moment.

Hopefully the next post will be delivery of my kit.

[edwardb]

You're off and running! I was going to say something about the safety wires as well but hesitated. Now that it's out there, the idea is the safety wire should come around the top of head of each bolt so that the safety wire is pulling in a tightening direction. I've learned doing this myself on these builds, and don't claim to be perfect at it. Typically takes several re-do's on each assembly for me. But it gets easier the more you do it. The picture below was from my #8674 Roadster build. Then there's the whole matter that for street only use, the safety wire is probably not necessary. So do the best you can and it will be fine. Regarding the torque, yes your conversion is right. Hopefully though you used a torque wrench that is rated for that low of ft-lbs and is accurate. Many 3/8-inch and probably all 1/2-inch wrenches have a minimum of more than that. Unfortunately several builders have snapped the bolts off. Usually because they didn't notice it was in-lbs and you can guess how that turned out. But still not that hard if you get heavy handed, and may not be able to extract the broken piece. Hopefully you didn't get too heavy handed with the red Loctite either. That stuff is evil. :p Just a little does the job. I typically only use it where I'm not expecting to have to take things apart again. I would never use it on small bolts like these unless it's specified. I use my share of blue Loctite. But leave the red in the cabinet most of the time.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/th_IMG_3728_zpsrinxnwql.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_3728_zpsrinxnwql.jpg.html)

[Pat427]

You're off and running! I was going to say something about the safety wires as well but hesitated. Now that it's out there, the idea is the safety wire should come around the top of head of each bolt so that the safety wire is pulling in a tightening direction. I've learned doing this myself on these builds, and don't claim to be perfect at it. Typically takes several re-do's on each assembly for me. But it gets easier the more you do it. The picture below was from my #8674 Roadster build. Then there's the whole matter that for street only use, the safety wire is probably not necessary. So do the best you can and it will be fine. Regarding the torque, yes your conversion is right. Hopefully though you used a torque wrench that is rated for that low of ft-lbs and is accurate. Many 3/8-inch and probably all 1/2-inch wrenches have a minimum of more than that. Unfortunately several builders have snapped the bolts off. Usually because they didn't notice it was in-lbs and you can guess how that turned out. But still not that hard if you get heavy handed, and may not be able to extract the broken piece. Hopefully you didn't get too heavy handed with the red Loctite either. That stuff is evil. :p Just a little does the job. I typically only use it where I'm not expecting to have to take things apart again. I would never use it on small bolts like these unless it's specified. I use my share of blue Loctite. But leave the red in the cabinet most of the time.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/th_IMG_3728_zpsrinxnwql.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_3728_zpsrinxnwql.jpg.html)



Thank you for the advice. I'll definitely be re-doing some of the safety wiring so they take on more of tightening orientation. My torque wrench has a minimum of 10 Ft/lbs, so I was still able to use my existing torque wrench, but had to purchase an adapter for the 1/2inch wrench to be able to tighten those small bolts.

I appreciate everyone following along. It makes me feel better knowing that experienced builders are keeping tabs on this rookie.

[Pat427]

Delivery Question

When the body and chassis come off the truck, will Stewart Transport have anything to wheel the chassis into my garage? Or is a chassis dolly a must have?

Thanks,
Pat

[edwardb]

Delivery Question

When the body and chassis come off the truck, will Stewart Transport have anything to wheel the chassis into my garage? Or is a chassis dolly a must have?

Thanks,
Pat

They have a cart and assuming you have a regular driveway (e.g. not gravel, etc.) will roll the chassis into your garage right where you want it. Including directly onto your jack stands or whatever. All the boxes will be brought in on the same cart with as many trips as needed. You won't need to do much beside watch and take pictures. ;)

[BadAsp427]

Hey, just thought... if you want to make the drive to Summerville, I'd be happy to let you use my Chassis dolly and body buck. Dolly has a 21" lift.

102067 102068

[Pat427]

They have a cart and assuming you have a regular driveway (e.g. not gravel, etc.) will roll the chassis into your garage right where you want it. Including directly onto your jack stands or whatever. All the boxes will be brought in on the same cart with as many trips as needed. You won't need to do much beside watch and take pictures. ;)


Thank you EdwardB. I have jack stands and was planning on using them only because that's what we used at the Mott College build school and they seemed to work out fine. Out of curiosity, are there any specific advantages of using the chassis dolly during the build?

Thanks,

Pat

[Pat427]

Hey, just thought... if you want to make the drive to Summerville, I'd be happy to let you use my Chassis dolly and body buck. Dolly has a 21" lift.

102067 102068


Wow, thank you for the offer! Of course.. leave it to me to have just started on a body buck right before you offer yours. Palm to forehead.

[BadAsp427]

Wow, thank you for the offer! Of course.. leave it to me to have just started on a body buck right before you offer yours. Palm to forehead.

Just sayin' and this one has two shelves to put "stuff" on...

[SSNK4US]

Thank you EdwardB. I have jack stands and was planning on using them only because that's what we used at the Mott College build school and they seemed to work out fine. Out of curiosity, are there any specific advantages of using the chassis dolly during the build?

Thanks,

Pat

My reason for a chassis dolly (not that I’ve done anything and the body is still on) is that it makes it moble. We have a three car garage with two other cars in it. Pull out my wife’s car and I can roll the build out in the middle of the two car portion and have plenty of room all the way around it with nothing in the way. Wall etc....

Kurt

[BadAsp427]

Thank you EdwardB. I have jack stands and was planning on using them only because that's what we used at the Mott College build school and they seemed to work out fine. Out of curiosity, are there any specific advantages of using the chassis dolly during the build?

Thanks,

Pat

I have to tell you, jack stands do not usually go up that high, and if they do, how steady are they? With the dolly I really liked being able to turn my build around so the the area I was actively working on was closest to my work bench/tools. Also, there was several times that I moved the chassis over to one side so that I could work on the body, again closer to tools and vacuums, etc... Also, I found myself sitting and standing on my dolly several times as I was working in the engine compartment. In these two photos, you will notice, chassis is facing opposite directions. I never opened the garage door, just turned it around.

102069 102070

[Papa]

+1 for a chassis dolly!

[VAHokie]

+2 for the chassis dolly. Mobility is key!

[edwardb]

I've done a couple on jack stands. It's OK, but I can see the attraction of the dolly. The other two I've done with a 2-post lift. Now that's how to do it. :o

[Pat427]

Delivery!

Good news!

After three weeks of watching the water boil, I finally took delivery of my kit. I've been waiting for this day since I was about 16 years old and I couldn't be more excited.

Jim from Stewart Transport was awesome for a couple different reasons.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102634&d=1550914491
The actual delivery process was basically a disaster, which was entirely my fault. FYI this picture makes my neighborhood look like something out of Cold War Russia, but in reality the area and buildings are actually very nice looking.

First, Jim had to back-up his 53 foot trailer about 300 yards through a tight road that was lined by parked cars in order to get to my home, which he did without any issue, but it certainly wasn't the most comfortable thing to watch. Plus, I live in a very bustling area with people trying to get out of our little neighborhood during all of this. Lots of dirty looks from the millennials that decided to look up from their cell phones.

Anyway, once Jim got the car unloaded from the truck, we put it on my frame dolly. However, when we tried to roll the dolly, the thing tipped over and collapsed. I think one of the brakes of the casters wasn't completely off, which was the problem. Plus, I had somehow missed the step about putting triangular support braces on the dolly. Nice work, Patrick. When that thing plunked down, my heart sank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102635&d=1550914504

Jim wasn't phased at all.

He lifted the car back up and we put in on his cart. I don't think there was any damage to the frame or body.

Then, as we were wheeling the car into my garage, we hit another problem. The entrance to my garage is basically two parallel concrete ramps that are about 3 feet apart with a patch of decorative rocks between the two ramps. Well, the two ramps are farther apart than the wheels of the cart, so one the wheels of the cart kept falling into the patch of decorative rocks, while the other one remained on the concrete ramp.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102637&d=1550924962

My heart sank again when the cart tipped over and the car sort of toppled off the cart.

Jim wasn't phased.

With the help of a long 2x4 I had laying around, Jim was able to pry the cart up over the lip and into the garage.

We then put the car on jack stands. Not ideal, but it'll work for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102636&d=1550914517

Anyway, then I got all the boxes into the garage and Jim took off.

Then, I took a look at the garage. I have to admit I started feeling very overwhelmed. The weight of what I had just got myself into really sank in. By that time I had to go to work, so I couldn't dwell for very long, but I'm going to jump into inventory today.

I hope the build goes a little smoother than the delivery. Let's be honest, it probably won't, but hey, that's why I've got this forum, right?

[BadAsp427]

Congratulations on the delivery. Sorry for the problems, but perhaps this means you got them all out of your way. The use of my dolly is still on the table if you would like. I just put plates on mine yesterday so I'm 100% legal and we will have to schedule a time for me to come and visit / help with yours. I'm only a couple hours away. Just reach out to me. I'll send you a PM with my contact information...

[FF33rod]

Congrats and welcome to the FFR family and fun! You're where I was at in November with the '33. When the kit finally arrived, was very excited just like you. Dove right in - inventory and then started the build. I'd start making some progress and then would have to pause to either figure stuff out (decisions to make since it wasn't explained in the manual) or get another tool or supply. I started to get frustrated. I had to have a little talk with myself about expectations - I truly didn't have schedule and I needed to remind myself of that. Still have to take a deep breath at times... You may have a totally different approach and personality but I thought I'd relate that in case you find yourself feeling the same way. Enjoy the journey!
Steve

[Pat427]

Inventory

I've tackled inventory.

It's definitely a tedious process, but I can see that doing it the right way is important. In addition, I've already learned a lot about terminology as well putting a face to the pieces, which I think will pay off during the build.

I have about 2 boxes left in the inventory process. I've discovered two things that were missing (a bolt and a piece of brake line). I'll continue to look through the other boxes to see if I missed them, otherwise I'll reach out to Factory Five.

I have stumbled upon a few pieces that I can't identify and was hoping the forum could tell me what's what.

1.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102855&d=1551237762

I'm pretty sure this is an, 'Adjuster Bung'. The manual say this is supposed to be 1.25" long, however mine is 2.25" long. Is this a problem?


2.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102857&d=1551237795

I have two of these. Not sure what they are. Any help would be appreciated.

3.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102856&d=1551237784

No idea.


4.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102859&d=1551237836

No idea.



Again, any help or advice is welcome and appreciated.

[edwardb]

1. That looks like one of the adjusters for the UCA connection for the IRS. You should have two of them. Appears to be threaded on the inside as well as the outside, which is correct for that part. Looks like this installed on the IRS knuckle.

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/th_IMG_3317_zpscgpqd7ql.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_3317_zpscgpqd7ql.jpg.html)

2. Tab for attaching rigid brake line to the chassis where it transitions to flex. There are different versions. Since you list the Wilwood brake option, you should have similar parts provided that have a round hole. You won't use those.

3. Used to connect fuel filler tube to the LeMans cap.

4. Ground strap for the LeMans cap to deal with possible static electricity. Goes under one of the cap mounting screws to a metal chassis location.

[Jeff Kleiner]

To elaborate on edwardb's response, the tabs in #2 are for donor rubber brake hoses which as he indicated won't be used in your case. You'll find some other items like these such as fan mount straps, hood pins, assorted relays, etc.

Good job working through the inventory!

Jeff

[PeteMeindl]

Congrats! Just getting everything under your roof is a great feeling! Great job describing the ups and downs of delivery day... :)

[Pat427]

Starting the Build

I finished inventory!

That was a slow, tedious process, but I'm glad I took my time. I already feel more comfortable with things just from touching each piece and getting a feel for what's what.

I decided to jump right into the build process today. I had a co-worker come over and help get the body off the frame, which we did without any trouble. It's possible with only two people, but would be easier with three.

We got the frame on the body buck without difficulty. Unlike my frame dolly, my body buck did not topple over. That's a win for me.

Next, I decided to install the Trans Mount Plate. We did this in the Mott College Build School. I know there has been some debate on this topic, but I haven't heard anyone say that it's an absolute no-no, so I went ahead and did it. I bolted the Trans Mount Plate on the TOP of the mounting tabs. The build manual says you can mount the plate either on top OR the bottom of the mounting tabs. If anyone thinks I should mount the Trans Mount Plate on the bottom of the tabs, please let me know.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102943&d=1551394573

After that, I started work on the F-panels. Not too much to report here. I think I got them on without significant difficulty. The drivers side F-panel wasn't positioned correctly, so I had to move it towards the rear of the car about an inch. Unfortunately, this caused me to have to drill two extra holes in the frame, which I didn't love doing, but was necessary. I'm planning on getting the aluminum powder coated, so I'm just mocking them up with cleco's for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102942&d=1551394552


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102941&d=1551394535

I noticed the forward mounting tabs for the Lower Control Arm on the Drivers Side are too narrow, so I'm going to have to spread those tabs. I'm going to use the ol' threaded bar trick, which I've read works pretty well.


Question for the Forum Braintrust:

Do you use Loctite on all bolts? For instance, the bolts that I used to mount the Trans Mount Plate. Will those bolts require Loctite?

Thanks for everyone that is following along. Again, please please chime in with any tips, pointers or advice.

Thanks,

Pat

[cv2065]

Good to hear that you are moving along! There are certainly going to be times where you get frustrated or discouraged, but just keep coming back to the forum and everyone will keep you motivated!

Regarding Loctite, I use Blue 242 on just about everything except lock nuts.

[Pat427]

The Build Continues

I continued with the Upper and Lower Control Arms and the Shocks today.

As I previously discovered, the mounting tabs for the forward Lower Control Arms on the Drivers Side were too narrow, which required me to spread the tabs. I was able to do this easily with the threaded bar trick. This works like a charm.

I was able to get the Lower Control Arms in with minimal headaches. On the Drivers Side, the Lower Control Arm needed some pulling and twisting in order to get the bolt to go through the holes in the mounting tabs. I then torqued the bolts to spec. The build manual doesn't say anything about putting Loctite on these bolts. I was going to put Loctite on them anyway, but I forgot because my fiancé made a surprise visit to the garage and I was so eager to show off my killer torque skills I completely forgot to apply the Loctite. Not sure if I'm going to undo the torque in order to apply the Loctite. Any thoughts?

For the Upper Control Arms, I went with the Howe Racing Ball Joints. A little pricey, but you can definitely tell they are high quality. A little Blue Loctite on the thread and they went in without any need to use the vise. Not entirely sure what to do with the washer that's above the castle nut. Anyone know if I need that or not?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102998&d=1551480366

Then another first for me. I used a grease gun to fill the Arms with grease. Messy at first, but I eventually got the hang of it.


Next came the Shocks.

I think I was able to get them assembled correctly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102995&d=1551480304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102994&d=1551480286

I then mounted the top of the Shock to the body. Had to spread the DS tabs in order to get them to fit. Again, no biggie with the ol' threaded bar trick.
Quick question: The nut used on the Upper Shock mount is that brass/gold color, yet the bolt is metallic colored. Is this normal or am I using the wrong nut?


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102996&d=1551480326

At first I mounted the bottom of the Shock to the body, but ended up taking the bolt out because it was too long. The bolt I had used was the 3.25" bolt that was needed for mounting the DS Upper Shock. I ended up not mounting the bottom of the Shock to the body because my kit was missing the 2.75" bolts that are used for this purpose. I think I'll just end up going back to Home Depot to pick these up instead of waiting on FF to send them.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102997&d=1551480341

Please check my work. I'm new at this and really want to avoid this car falling apart on me.

I have not torqued any of the Upper Control Arms or Shock bolts yet.

I'm having a good time so far. I'm averaging about 2.4 Home Depot visits per day. It's slow going, but I'm taking my time and I think I'm making some small steps.

As always, ANY help, tips or advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat

[BadAsp427]

Hey Pat... looking good so far...
To give a little advice. If you are installing a nut that is self locking (Vinyl Insert / Distorted threads) you do not need loctite. Also, not that it is wrong, but I do not know of anywhere that I had the brass colored nut on a silver bolt. Also, when you are working with the suspension bolts, it is best to use those provided by FFR. Not Lowe's or Home Depot. The bolts that go in the suspension are exact size (diameter) bolts that need to be in there, not to mention the strength. A question... On the shock spring adjustment nut on the shock sleeve. Usually there are two of those; one that the spring sits on and one that locks the other into place. Did your shocks not come with two for each?

Either way, nice start. It's pretty cool to finish a project and get to start on the next. But do not be afraid to contact FFR for parts that you did not get. They will send them out nearly immediately and you'll be confident that you have the right part in place.

[edwardb]

X2 on not using Loctite on nuts with the nylon insert. Not only is it not required since the insert provides the locking function, the blue Loctite is destructive to the nylon. This has been talked about quite a bit and as I recall is a caution in Loctite's literature. In general, you shouldn't need any Loctite on the suspension assembly other than the ball joint. The nuts provided by Factory Five are typically lock nuts of the nylon insert variety or the distorted type. Your suspension isn't going to fall apart! A properly torqued bolt will stay put. Loctite is talked about a lot on these forums, and it has its place. But don't overthink it.

Other assorted comments: Put a witness mark on the ball joints and mounting plates so you can monitor that they aren't turning. Haven't seen it for awhile, but have been several instances of those working out. Which isn't good of course. X2 on not buying suspension hardware from HD or other big box stores. What Factory Five provides is the proper size and grade and often not available there. Having said that, the shock bolts are pretty normal grade 5 hardware. But a lot of the hardware I've seen at HD isn't even grade 5. If you have a local Ace Hardware with Hillman hardware (what they usually carry) they have a much better selection and you can be sure to get the proper grade 5 bolts for the shocks. The sort of brass colored nuts that Factory Five provides are OK. That's just plating with a kind of gold hue. Just use them where they're designated. Your standard red Koni shocks only have a single locking collar. With set screws that most recommend not using. At the very least, tighten very lightly or they'll ding up the threads on the adjustment collar. The dual action Koni's come with a double locking ring arrangement. Different than the standard Konis. The washers that came with your Howe Racing ball joints may/may not be required. Use them if needed to get the castle nuts to the proper tightness and lined up on the holes for the cotter pins.

[BadAsp427]

Your standard red Koni shocks only have a single locking collar. With set screws that most recommend not using. At the very least, tighten very lightly or they'll ding up the threads on the adjustment collar. The dual action Koni's come with a double locking ring arrangement. Different than the standard Konis.

Thanks Paul for clarifying. I've worked with several different styles of Koni Shocks on race cars in the past and all had the double locking spanner nuts. I was not sure about these for the Mk4. Carl

[Pat427]

Build Continues-Rough Day in the Garage

Rough day in the garage today.

I had to work an overnight shift last night, which means I'm in a bit of a fog today. I attempted to complete the front suspension, which I think I'd eventually did properly, but I obviously would love to get the blessing of the forum. I won't bother with all the little details, but suffice it to say I had lots of "learning opportunities" today.

I have a couple of questions that I really hope you all might be able to clear up for me.

First has to do with the castle nut on the spindles:

Basically, I COULD NOT get the lower castle nut (yellow arrow below) to torque to the required 80-90 ft/lb. I'm not the biggest guy in the world, but I was using every drop of adrenaline in my system to crank that wrench and it would not torque down. I was cranking so hard that the body almost fell off the jack stands. I decided to stop at that point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103060&d=1551560361

I was reading on Wareaglescott build thread about this issue. He mentioned the spacer (blue line) that sits below the castle nut needed to be, "rounded side down", which it was, but I still could not get it to budge. Any advice?

Secondly, once the lower castle nut was tightened down, there was not enough space between the lower and upper castle nuts (red line) for my torque wrench to fit, therefore I was unable to toque the upper castle nut.

I think the issue is that my torque wrench has a 1/2"head, therefore I had to buy a 1/2"-->1/4" adapter (pic below) in order for the proper socket to be able to attach to the torque wrench. Well, I think the adapter is taking up too much space and causing the issue. I'm assuming I'll need to purchase a smaller (1/4") torque wrench so that I won't need that adapter?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103056&d=1551559502


Just hoping ya'll could check my work on the next couple of pictures to ensure it all looks correct.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103054&d=1551559466

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103055&d=1551559484

Next, these bolts were left over in the bag for the spindle hardware. I'm not sure what they're for. Any advice?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103052&d=1551559437

Last, after I "gently" tapped the hub, it looked like this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103053&d=1551559453

Does it look correct? I was concerned because the piece of metal with the red lube was kind of sticking out proud from the rest of the hub.

I would be very appreciative of any advice on the above issues.

Thanks,
Pat

[edwardb]

Observations from my side: Not understanding why you couldn't get 80-90 ft-lbs on the spindle lower ball joint nut. That's not that much that you should have to pull that hard, including pulling the frame off the stand. Something doesn't sound right. Sure you have the torque wrench on the right setting? Is it known to be accurate? Not being able to get the torque wrench on the other side is a common problem. Don't stress about it. Get a decent sized wrench on it and give it a strong pull. If the castle nut lines up, put the pin in and you should be done. Something doesn't look right with your front hub either. Are you sure it's all the way on? Seem to recall more threads should be showing than that. Sometimes it's necessary to use a little emory cloth on the spindle to get the hub to slide on. Also pretty sure that's the rear hub nut you have on there. Not the front one. I could be wrong, but that doesn't look right either. There's a dust cap that goes of the end and I'm betting it won't fit.

[Pat427]

EdwardB,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I've attached some pictures of the Drivers Side hub.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103075&d=1551576503

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103076&d=1551576522

Does this look correct?

[edwardb]

EdwardB,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I've attached some pictures of the Drivers Side hub.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103075&d=1551576503

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103076&d=1551576522

Does this look correct?

The hub looks like it's all the way back on the spindle. But I sure don't remember seeing the bearing pushed out like that, which is also resulting in fewer threads showing for the spindle nut. I'm thinking the bearing is sticking on the spindle and you kept pushing it enough to move the bearing. Does that sound like what you did?

[Pat427]

The hub looks like it's all the way back on the spindle. But I sure don't remember seeing the bearing pushed out like that, which is also resulting in fewer threads showing for the spindle nut. I'm thinking the bearing is sticking on the spindle and you kept pushing it enough to move the bearing. Does that sound like what you did?


Yes, that sounds about right. Does this mean I've ruined the hub? Or can I remove it and use an emery cloth on the spindle and see if that will allow the bearing seat further, which would hopefully result in more threads showing? Or is it possible to just start threading the nut onto the few threads that are showing in hopes that as I tighten the nut it will push the bearing further inward?

Thank you for your help,

Patrick

[edwardb]

Yes, that sounds about right. Does this mean I've ruined the hub? Or can I remove it and use an emery cloth on the spindle and see if that will allow the bearing seat further, which would hopefully result in more threads showing? Or is it possible to just start threading the nut onto the few threads that are showing in hopes that as I tighten the nut it will push the bearing further inward?

Thank you for your help,

Patrick

I honestly don't know the best course of action at this point. That's uncharted territory for me. I've had them be pretty snug, but never so tight that I had to force it on or move the bearings like that. My sense says remove it, push the bearing back to its original configuration, and use emery cloth on the spindle until it slides on without so much force. Some day you may have to get it back off and forcing it by using the spindle nut doesn't sound like a good idea to me. But as I said, no experience along those lines. I don't know if the bearing is damaged. I doubt it, but don't know about that either. Sorry. Maybe some others have suggestions.

[Higgybulin]

With Paul saying that it looks like the rear hub nut in the picture, maybe the bearings are for the rear hubs and not the front. The bolts that you said were left over from the bag look like drive shaft to rear end bolts.
Higgy

[Pat427]

Build Progress

It's been a few days since I've been able to post any updates. I've been on a tough stretch at work. Gotta pay for all this somehow, right?

Well, I think I've solved the issue with the Front Hubs. I managed to get my hands on some emery cloth. This stuff is pretty neat. I had to order it off Amazon. It was nowhere to be found in the stores in my area (2 Home Depots, 4 Lowes, 1 Ace Hardware and 1 Harbor Freight). I used Fine Grit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103355&d=1552003205

Once it showed up, I was able to polish the spindles and bam! The hubs went on much easier and didn't push the inner bearings out.

I think I fixed the issue? The hub is seated all the way on the spindle, which is allowing much more of the threads to show.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103356&d=1552003218


The other issue is the hub nut that screws on to the spindle. The forum seems to agree that I was using the wrong nut. Here is a better picture of the nut that came with the kit. Just wanted to make sure everyone still thinks it's the wrong one, because I can't seem to find any other nuts that might be the right ones.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103357&d=1552003234

Also, I wanted to get clarification about the front of the Drivers Pedal box. I have to Wilwood brakes and I'm planning on using a cable clutch. I wanted to ensure this is the correct piece of aluminum for the front of the pedal box?


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103358&d=1552003249


Also, I have nearly completed all the drilling of the panels and finished fitting them to the frame. Much bigger pain in the butt than I had anticipated, but it's about over. Next step will be to get the panels to the powder coater tomorrow. I'm thinking about going with a dark gray.

Thanks again for everyones help and advice.

Patrick

[Jeff Kleiner]

Unless things have changed recently the front hub nits are caged. Yes, that is the correct driver's side front panel for the Wilwood pedals.

Jeff

[Higgybulin]

Those look like the hub nuts in the picture
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/14850-mk4-spindle-set/

[edwardb]

It's probably mainly my fault about the doubt on those front hub nuts. Your early pictures when the hubs weren't going on right, the bearing was sticking out, etc. just didn't look right to me including the nut. But mainly I guess because you had so few threads exposed. Agree the nuts in the picture from FF's website look like what you have and as I recall like ones I've received and used as well. If they thread onto the spindles, properly fit into the hub and compress the bearings, and the dust caps provided fit over, then I think they're the right ones. Hopefully you have the right tools to put the 225-250 ft-lbs of torque needed on those nuts.

[Cruzzz]

Those are the right front hub nuts. I just finished installing them on mine. I was able to get a loaner 250lb torque wrench and axle socket set from Pep Boys that worked great. Also, if you haven’t done so you may want to consider trimming the aft adjusting sleeves and bolts as noted by Fixit and others. I wouldn’t have got them close to the initial alignment measurements in the manual without doing so.

[Pat427]

IRS Center Section

I started to tackle the IRS this weekend.

First, I removed the bolts from the rear hubs with a 3lb sledge hammer. They came out fairly easily. It took 3-4 whacks until the bolt would fall out. Now, getting the new bolts in...that was a different story.

I used the nut and washer technique to pull the new bolt through. It wasn't until the 5th or 6th bolt that I started to put a tiny bit of lithium grease on the empty hole, which made pulling the new bolt through 10x's easier. The biggest issue I had was getting my vise to hold the hub strong enough to not allow the entire hub to spin when I was wrenching it. Ultimately, I was able to get the new bolts pulled through and I was pleased I accomplished this task.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103528&d=1552251774


Next was the IRS center section....

First, I used POR15 to coat the center section. Like others have said, that is some stout stuff. I let it dry overnight and this morning I attempted to get in into the frame.
This was a bit intimidating for me as I'm doing all the work by myself. The center section has to be over 80-90lbs, which made me really take my time as to not injure myself.

With the help of a floor jack, I was able to get it into the frame....kinda.

I was able to get the rear bolts to go through. It was such a great feeling to feel the bolts start to thread into the mounting bracket. At first it felt like victory. However, my joy was short lived and now I'm left scratching my head with a couple of hurdles that I hope the forum can help with.

1. The rear bolts are not long enough to extend through he mounting bracket AND the mounting flange in the IRS center section.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103529&d=1552251793

Here's another picture. This is a view from he front. In the picture below, the bolt is completely threaded and yet it does not extend out the other end for a nut to screw on.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103530&d=1552251813

I believe the bolt I used was part #15962, which is an M14-2.0 100mm Flange Head Bolt.

Is the bolt supposed to go all the way through for a nut to screw on?


2. I could NOT get the front holes to line up. I think I'm going to have to loosen the rear bolts enough to wiggle the center section from side-to side just a few millimeters in order to get the those front holes to line up. Does this sound like it would work?

Thanks for your help,

Pat

[BadAsp427]

Hay pat, those rear bolts do not get a nut on them, they only thread into the housing. Be sure that you have them torqued to the correct amount. (100 FtLbs) My car is up on jackstands so I was able to take a quick look and your is exactly as mine is. If it will help, here is a LINK (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-Street-Legal-Gel-Coat-Driver&p=337901&viewfull=1#post337901) to my center section install.

[Pat427]

Hay pat, those rear bolts do not get a nut on them, they only thread into the housing. Be sure that you have them torqued to the correct amount. (100 FtLbs) My car is up on jackstands so I was able to take a quick look and your is exactly as mine is. If it will help, here is a LINK (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-Street-Legal-Gel-Coat-Driver&p=337901&viewfull=1#post337901) to my center section install.


Thank you so much for your response. That made my day. I'm very much relieved that it looks the same as yours.

All I have to do is loosen the rear bolts and wiggle the center section until I can get the front bolts to go through the mounting tabs. Hopefully that goes okay.

[Cruzzz]

I didn’t see anyone answer yet but the bolt you asked about in post #52 is to bolt the FFR stock GT calipers to the front spindles. There should be four bolts. It looks like you have the Wilwood brakes so not sure if you need them.

[Pat427]

Build Continues


I spent most of the day in the garage and made a little progress, but I hit a wall, so I decided to stop for the day.

I got my center section installed without too much headache, which gave me a little boost of confidence.

Then I started to work on my IRS. I managed to get the upper and lower control arms installed without too much difficulty. I had to use the ol' threaded bar trick to widen all the mounting tabs, which worked like a charm. I also used EdwardBs trick with the grinded bolt to help get the arms lined up with the holes. That worked very well.

But then I hit a wall. Two walls actually.

First, I realized that I didn't have the correct bolt for the back of the upper control arm. It calls for a M16-2.0 x110MM Flange Head Bolt. Well, I couldn't find two of the them. I had used the wrong bolt at first, but realized my mistake when the flange nut wouldn't go all the way on the end of the bolt. I've contacted FF to send me a couple of new ones. I left the hole empty for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103669&d=1552424999


Second wall has to do with the CV axles. I tried to slip them into the differential, but they wouldn't go. I wasn't sure how much force they required, but it definitely felt like it was getting snagged on something. When I took them out, I noticed a small ring near the end of the axle. I wasn't sure if this needed to be removed or what, but I thought I'd run it past the forum before I messed something up. Pics below. The little ring isn't flush with the rest of the axle. It's kinda sticking up and I thought that might be the issue. Thoughts?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103668&d=1552424962

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103667&d=1552424951




Last is just a picture of my Toe arm attachment point. Not very well described in the instructions, but got it cleared up by looking at EdwardBs pictures.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103670&d=1552425023

Anyway, I hope ya'll can clear up the CV axle issue for me.

Thanks as always,

Pat

[BadAsp427]

Pat, the rings on the ends of your CV Axles is the retainer ring that will hold the axles in place inside the diff. STOP: be sure you have the correct axle on the correct side, one is shorter than the other.... once you know you have the right one; push it in. It may take a bit of umph to get it in as it will press in the snap rings... It will be a definite "Click" as it goes into place.

[Pat427]

Pat, the rings on the ends of your CV Axles is the retainer ring that will hold the axles in place inside the diff. STOP: be sure you have the correct axle on the correct side, one is shorter than the other.... once you know you have the right one; push it in. It may take a bit of umph to get it in as it will press in the snap rings... It will be a definite "Click" as it goes into place.


Here comes the rookie newbie question of the day:

When the instructions state that the CV axles are designated left and right...is this if you're looking at the car from the front or looking at it from behind?

[BadAsp427]

Usually as looked at from the rear. DS is Left

[Jeff Kleiner]

Here comes the rookie newbie question of the day:

When the instructions state that the CV axles are designated left and right...is this if your looking at the car from the front or looking at it from behind?

Almost without exception when speaking in automotive terms right and left are as if you are sitting in the driver's seat.

Jeff

[Big Blocker]

Damn Jeff, it must be the time zone thing . . . you always beat me to this kind of post response.

Soooo, for what it's worth, Jeff is [as always] correct, ALL references to orientation on a car is as if you were sitting in the drivers seat looking forward . . . left is the drivers side.

This concept confuses quite a few, especially when they start talking about which way something "rotates", like which way does the engine spin? Correct answer is: counter-clockwise, when you are sitting in the drivers seat.

Doc

[edwardb]

To add to what was said about the CV axles, confirming don't remove the snap rings. Big mistake. Once you push the stub into the center section, you should feel the inner CV joint compressing. It slides. Once all the way in, give it a solid push and it should click into place. If it doesn't, you can give the end of the axle a light bump with a dead blow hammer as stated in the instructions. Again with the inner CV joint compressed. Even if you don't feel it click, if you end up with the approx 1/8-inch gap as described in the instructions, you should be in. If in doubt, give it a light tug. It shouldn't come out. Usually takes some leverage to pop it back out once the snap ring is engaged.

[Pat427]

To add to what was said about the CV axles, confirming don't remove the snap rings. Big mistake. Once you push the stub into the center section, you should feel the inner CV joint compressing. It slides. Once all the way in, give it a solid push and it should click into place. If it doesn't, you can give the end of the axle a light bump with a dead blow hammer as stated in the instructions. Again with the inner CV joint compressed. Even if you don't feel it click, if you end up with the approx 1/8-inch gap as described in the instructions, you should be in. If in doubt, give it a light tug. It shouldn't come out. Usually takes some leverage to pop it back out once the snap ring is engaged.

Thanks for the information. I'll be trying this out later today.

Just out of curiosity, does the snap ring in the picture I posted look the way its supposed to? The reason I ask is because the snap ring is bulging upward in only one spot (between the 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock position) and the rest of it is sitting nicely within a groove. I thought snap rings were supposed to be protruding equally around the entirety of the circumference.

Thanks,

[edwardb]

Thanks for the information. I'll be trying this out later today.

Just out of curiosity, does the snap ring in the picture I posted look the way its supposed to? The reason I ask is because the snap ring is bulging upward in only on spot (between the 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock position) and the rest of it is sitting nicely within a groove. I thought snap rings were supposed to be protruding equally around the entirety of the circumference.

Thanks,

Sounds like they're not centered in the slots and floating around a bit. I really don't think you have a problem. With just a little bit of extra persuasion, if needed, I'm confident those will go in just fine. You could put a little gear lube on the ends before pushing in if you think that would help. Same as what they'll see in operation. FWIW, unless something has changed which I doubt, those are Ford OE CV joints installed on shorter axles. So they're made to go into that center section.

[Pat427]

Rookie Newbie Question of the Day


I got the CV axles in without any issue. I used a little force and a few bangs with a rubber mallet and they went in fine.

Now I'm about to attach the hubs and spindles.

My hubs and spindles are not attached, however the bolts that are used for this purpose have a red marking on the threads, which confused me. Does this red mark mean that I'm supposed to put Red Loctite on the threads?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103729&d=1552512930

Thanks,

Pat

[cv2065]

My hubs and spindles are not attached, however the bolts that are used for this purpose have a red marking on the threads, which confused me. Does this red mark mean that I'm supposed to put Red Loctite on the threads?

Pat

Hey Pat. Those bolts already have a threadlocker on them. Just the dry kind. Shouldn't need any more so you're good to go!

[Pat427]

Hey Pat. Those bolts already have a threadlocker on them. Just the dry kind. Shouldn't need any more so you're good to go!

Thank you for the info cv2065. Much appreciated.

[Pat427]

IRS Continues

So I finished the PS IRS. It all went together fairly easily. Once again I had to spread all tabs with the threaded bar trick. That skill is really coming in handy. Anyway, if you guys see any glaring errors please let me know.

Thanks,

Pat

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103738&d=1552519437

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103739&d=1552519448

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103740&d=1552519460

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103741&d=1552519473

[BadAsp427]

Only thing I see that you may all ready be planning... You need to fill that anti-lock sensor hole on the top of the knuckle. I personally just used some high temp RTV, clear, to fill the hole. I've seen others fabricate a nice cover that actually is held in by the adjoining bolt hole.

[Pat427]

IRS Swaybar

I installed my IRS Swaybar this morning.

I got the thing in place, but had to make some concessions that I wanted to run past the forum because I don't know if what I've done is acceptable.

Two things:

1st: On the passengers side, I mounted the sway bar to the INSIDE of the male/female rod ends just like in the instructions. However, on the drivers side, I had to mount the swaybar to the OUTSIDE of the rod ends. I couldn't get the swaybar to mount on the inside because it wasn't bent enough. In order to get it mounted on the inside of the rod ends, I would have to take the whole thing off and bend the drivers side inward so that it will mount to the inside. Is it okay to have the swaybar mounted as is?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103913&d=1552827407

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103914&d=1552827419

2nd: On the passenger side, I bolted the swaybar through the 3rd hole. However, on the drivers side I had to mount it through the 2nd hole. I think this is because the tie rod ends were cut at slightly different lengths. Is this mounting difference acceptable?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103912&d=1552827396

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103911&d=1552827383

Thanks,

Pat

[BadAsp427]

I had to look back at my photos but I have both of my swaybars on the outside and the spacer is on the inside of the rod end. I am driving back from Florida now so I can’t really do much more than this at the moment to help. Hope this helps
103940

[edwardb]

I would recommend getting the attachment holes the same on both sides. You may need to juggle spacers around but having the same leverage on both sides would seem important. One hint is your suspension is at full hang right now. That's taking the attachment points to their extreme and creating some unusual angles. I'd recommend getting the suspension closer to ride height and you may find the attachments are improved. At this stage of the game, you can either unbolt one end of the coilovers. Or back off the spring adjusters all the way. Then jack up both sides to where the UCA's are nearly level. I'll bet things look a little different there. Obviously, you want the attachments to still be OK at the upper and lower extremes of the suspension travel, which they should be. But you want them optimized when at ride height and that's where I'd be making decisions about how it's assembled. Makes a difference in my experience.

[Pat427]

The Build Continues

First, BIG thanks to edwardb and BadAsp427 for their advice on how to fix my little swaybar issues. I used both of their advice to correct the swaybar mounting problem, so thank you guys.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103999&d=1552956622

I lifted the control arm and moved the location of the spacer to the inner part of the mounting bracket, which allowed me to get the tie rods to the outside of the swaybar. This also allowed me to mount the swaybar through the 3rd hole, just like the passenger side.

I also mounted my rear Wilwood brakes. Not much fuss with this. The Wilwood components are clearly high quality and everything seems extremely precise with respect to fitment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104001&d=1552956646

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104000&d=1552956634

Everything is just finger tight at the moment. Honestly, I was scared when I saw the Wilwood instructions say to put the Red Loctite on the mounting bolts. That step felt a little too permanent for me. I'm thinking about getting further down the road before I commit to that step.

Also, I tackled the modification of the front upper control arms. I wasn't sure about this step as it's not mentioned anywhere in the build manual and I wasn't sure if this was something that FFR had fixed by the time my kit was built and the modification may be totally unnecessary or what. However, I decided to go ahead and perform the modification. I'd like to extend a specific Thank You to BadAsp427, who walked me through this modification, which turned out to be painless. Hopefully I did it right and it helps with alignment down the road.

I'll be in the garage all day tomorrow, so more updates to come.

Thanks,

Pat

[BadAsp427]

The Build Continues

Everything is just finger tight at the moment. Honestly, I was scared when I saw the Wilwood instructions say to put the Red Loctite on the mounting bolts. That step felt a little too permanent for me. I'm thinking about getting further down the road before I commit to that step.

Also, I tackled the modification of the front upper control arms. I wasn't sure about this step as it's not mentioned anywhere in the build manual and I wasn't sure if this was something that FFR had fixed by the time my kit was built and the modification may be totally unnecessary or what. However, I decided to go ahead and perform the modification. I'd like to extend a specific Thank You to BadAsp427, who walked me through this modification, which turned out to be painless. Hopefully I did it right and it helps with alignment down the road.

I'll be in the garage all day tomorrow, so more updates to come.

Thanks,

Pat

You are welcome. Glad to help!
While everybody does this a little bit differently, I always like to finish one project completely if I had all the parts including torque everything. If you leave something untorqued, believe me later on you probably will not remember it. So for example on your brakes once you are ready to install them, there should be no reason not to finalize that install if everything seems to be functioning properly. It’s just my opinion but I would not leave bolts un-torqued that need to be torqued in the long run.

[Pat427]

Steering Rack Question

So I'm trying to install my steering rack today and I'm hitting a little wall that I hope the forum could clarify for me.

I'm using the Factory Five Power Steering Rack.

The first picture is how the rack came. Are these bushings supposed to look like this? They seem to be sticking out pretty far, which is making it so the rack won't fit between the mounting tabs. I've had to spread almost all the mounting tabs to this point in the build, but the tabs for the Steering Rack are almost 1/2" too narrow because of the interference from these rubber bushings. Can anyone clarify if I'm supposed to remove these? Are they the correct ones? Do they look correct?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104079&d=1553106215

Second, has to do with the spacers that came with the Steering Rack Hardware. The spacers don't fit through the bushings, they're too big. Am I supposed to be using these spacers or are they just extra parts?


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104078&d=1553106202

However, if I just put the bolt through without the spacer, then there's way too much wiggle room between the bolt and the inner bushing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104081&d=1553107050

Thanks,

Pat

[Sigurd]

Are you sure you are using the correct bushings? Mine sure did not look like that.

[Jdav]

If I remember correctly, you are supposed to swap the bushings with ones supplied from FFR (the rack is a stock rack).

[Pat427]

Build Continues

Another save from the forum. I was able to located the proper bushings for my Steering Rack. I got the correct ones installed and proceeded with installing the Steering Rack.

I couldn't get the holes on the PS and DS to line up, so I ended up drilling the hole in the PS mounting tab to make it bigger. I was then able to get the bolt to go through the mounting tab and the rack was in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104110&d=1553128719


Next, I installed the rod ends, which was pretty straight forward. However, I noticed that the ends of the tie rods are REALLY close to the inside of the brake rotor.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104107&d=1553127785
Passenger Side

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104106&d=1553127772
Drivers Side

I also got most of the body panels temporarily installed. I did this just to make myself feel better and to just check the fit. I think it looks pretty cool.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104109&d=1553127813

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104108&d=1553127799

Then, I was able to get my front Wilwood brakes installed. It took me a little time to get the spacing right with adding and removing the shims, but ultimately I think I was able to get it looking fairly good.

Anyway, if anyone sees anything that is problematic, please please let me know.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Jeff Kleiner]

Judging by how much of the tie rod stud is showing both above and below the steering arms it does not appear that they are seated in the arms. Have you just not tightened the nut yet? The arms have the wide end of the taper pointing down, right?

Jeff

[Pat427]

Judging by how much of the tie rod stud is showing both above and below the steering arms it does not appear that they are seated in the arms. Have you just not tightened the nut yet? The arms have the wide end of the taper pointing down, right?

Jeff


Jeff,

Thanks for your response. Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't follow you when you ask about "the wide end of the taper pointing down"

I would be very appreciative if you could help me understand that question.

I have not torqued the castle nut down in those pictures.

Thanks,

Pat

[edwardb]

Jeff,

Thanks for your response. Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't follow you when you ask about "the wide end of the taper pointing down"

I would be very appreciative if you could help me understand that question.

I have not torqued the castle nut down in those pictures.

Thanks,

Pat

Maybe you noticed the tie rod ends, like the upper and lower ball joints, are tapered. The end where the nut goes is smaller in diameter than the other end. So it's critical to have the mating part the same way. Can't miss with the upper and lower ball joints because the spindles only go one way. But the steering arms can go on either side. So it's important that when you install them, you confirm the hole for the tie rod ends has the larger diameter on the bottom, smaller diameter on the top where the nut goes. Note that matches how the tie rod end is tapered. If installed upside down, the tie rod ends won't seat properly, which is what Jeff was asking about. Hopefully that helps.

[Jeff Kleiner]

What Paul said :)

To elaborate further, when installed correctly the steering arms will angle outward (which yours appear to do) and have the wide side of the taper facing down. If yours currently have the wide end of the taper facing up you need to turn them over and swap sides.

Jeff

[Pat427]

Bullet Dodged

Well, another save by the forum.

Thank you Jeff Kleiner and edwardb for the above help.

After reading their responses above, my ding-dong brain was able to make sense of things. As I was walking to my garage, I had that pit-in-the-bottom-of-my-stomach feeling wondering if I had those steering arms reversed by accident, because it would require significant disassembly in order to swap sides.

Well...I'm happy to say that it appears the steering arms are on the correct side. I can now see there is a taper to the hole in the steering arm. I was completely oblivious to this when I originally assembled them. So basically, it's blind luck that I put them on the correct sides.

I took a picture. In this picture, I'm laying on the ground looking upward through holes and you can see the taper.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104132&d=1553165018

I went back through the Factory Five Build Manual and re-read the page where it describes assembling the steering arms. I was pretty disappointed when I saw how minimal the description was with respect to this step, which could be a real problem if assembled incorrectly.

It's scenarios like this one that concerns me the most about my build. I'm starting to develop a real sense of hesitation to "permanently" put things on the car (i.e. riveting panels on the frame, using Red Loctite, etc) because I'm worried that I'll get 10 steps down the line and realize that I have to undo everything to fix some small mistake.

Anyway, I'm thankful for this forum because it not only helps me navigate this build, but it will hopefully keep me (and others) safe.

Thanks,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.... and smarter... See your Mechanical none is now some... Your doing well and asking the right questions... and learning along the way...

[Engine Factory]

Engine Looks great!!!

[Pat427]

Pedal Box Assembly and Clutch Pedal Question


I'm cautiously proceeding with the pedal box today. I really want to avoid any near-misses like I had with the steering arms, so I'm really taking it slow to make sure everything is assembled correctly.

Unfortunately, the build manual photos are pretty bad at showing how the pedal box goes together. In addition, the Factory Five Build Video and the supplemental instructions on the website show a different model Pedal Box than what I have. Despite these differences, I think I was able to get it pieced together properly. Below is a picture. Everything is just finger tight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104198&d=1553291883

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104197&d=1553291870


Clutch Pedal Question:

So I've read a lot about how there is interference between the clutch pedal and the frame, which require modification in order to allow the clutch pedal to fully swing back and forth. Well....I don't seem to have that interference at the moment. Is this common for some people to have the frame interference and others don't?

Below is a sequence of pictures that shows the area in question. The photos are a little blurry and dark, but I think you can still get the jist of things.

In the first picture the Clutch Pedal is hanging freely and is NOT being pushed.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104196&d=1553291856

In the second photo, I'm pushing the Clutch Pedal in as far as it will go at the moment. I even lowered the Clutch Stop Bolt to allow the Clutch Pedal to be pushed as far back as possible and there is still no interference.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104195&d=1553291846

Did I just get lucky or will the interference rear it's ugly head later in the assembly process?

[BadAsp427]

Sure, you got lucky.... actually FF fixed the problem on the new chassis... Looks good from what I can see in your photos... Depending on how big your feet are, you may want to move the clutch peddle (Stainless Steel Part) over to the far left. And perhaps you may even end up moving the brake peddle over as well. It is easy enough to do later in your build. It will give you more room between the two peddles as well as more room between your throttle and brake.

[BadAsp427]

Had a chance today to drive over to Columbia, SC in the cobra and visit with Patrick. I have to tell you, he is doing a nice job on his build. For someone with little automotive experience, he certainly does not lack confidence to attack this project. While he may ask a lot of questions, he is very willing to learn and then apply in a very detailed manner what he learns... Pat, your doing fantastic and you are going to love it even more as you go. Reach out to all of us as you need help.

And I'll just put this here for you to remember back to March 23 2019 later in your build...

104240

[Pat427]

Accelerator Pedal Question

So BadAsp427 made a visit to my build and we had a couple of hours to chat about our respective builds. Carl couldn't have been nicer and offered several tips for me going forward, which I really appreciated. Seeing his car rumble through my neighborhood gave me a big boost of excitement. It seems as though this forum really is filled with good people.

So today I moved forward with my build and hit a wall pretty quickly. The arms of my accelerator pedal are sort of folded over on themselves

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104327&d=1553460767


I need to get the free arm of the pedal to swing around almost 180 degrees, so the arm will be extended as seen in the build manual picture, but I can't get the arm to swing around.

I disassembled the joint and it looks as though the silver piece that connects the two arms of the pedal was inserted wrong. Now, I can't for the life of me, get that silver piece to rotate.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104330&d=1553460811

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104328&d=1553460779


So what do you guys think I should do?

Should I tap the silver piece out and re-orient it or what?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104329&d=1553460794

Thanks,

Patrick

[edwardb]

It's assembled that way for shipping. Nothing wrong with it. With the set screw removed, which looks like yours is, tap the serrated piece out of the arm. If you put the mounting screw only back in partway, and tap on that, comes out pretty easily. Then re-orient where you want it, re-assemble including the set screw. The other side, with the "D" shaped hole, can only be in the one position. That side doesn't move.

[Pat427]

It's assembled that way for shipping. Nothing wrong with it. With the set screw removed, which looks like yours is, tap the serrated piece out of the arm. If you put the mounting screw only back in partway, and tap on that, comes out pretty easily. Then re-orient where you want it, re-assemble including the set screw. The other side, with the "D" shaped hole, can only be in the one position. That side doesn't move.



Thanks edwardb,

I did just what you said and I was able to get the pedal correctly assembled.

[Pat427]

The Build Continues

I have a couple questions for the forum:

With respect to the adapter that connects the flexible brake lines to the hard lines, do I put any thread sealant, Loctite, etc? Also, do I screw the T-adapter ALL the way in? Both questions pertain to the where the Red Arrow is pointing in the picture below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104505&d=1553631366

Secondly, what are these pieces? They came in my Pedal Box Hardware bag.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104508&d=1553631410


Also, I got my upper and lower steering rack installed. I temporarily put my steering wheel on just for fun.

I also put down some heat shield on the foot boxes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104506&d=1553631383

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104507&d=1553631398

Any input is MUCH appreciated.

Thanks,

Patrick

[cv2065]

I put some Permatex 59235 high temp thread sealant on that fitting. You can use that stuff on just about everything, fuel, oil and brake fluid related. I don't think you can screw the fitting all the way in. It's pretty tight after a couple of turns. I just balanced it out with it being tight to the direction I wanted it facing. You'll know soon enough if you have any leaks and need to tweak it a bit. I don't recall using those brackets for the pedal box.

[edwardb]

Sorry to disagree -- that's a flair fitting. Like all the flair fittings in your brake lines, the seal is metal-to-metal at the flair. The threads aren't meant to seal. It's good practice to put a little brake fluid on the flair itself while assembling to provide a little lubrication when you seat the flare. But nothing more. No sealant on the threads. And yes it has to be tightened as far as it can go, with a slight grunt (:)) to insure the seal. If you don't you're dependent on the threads and the sealant to hold up to 1000 PSI, or more, in the brake lines. Which neither is designed to do. Orientation of that part isn't a problem. the piece it's going into can rotate to whatever position you need for the T orientation. Assembly sequence would be (1) attach the mounting tab to the frame, (2) install the fitting into the tab using the clip, (3) install the T fitting and orient by rotating the fitting in the tab, (4) then install the flex line on the other side. Which BTW is also typically a flair fitting. It can be oriented properly when you tighten it.

Further clarification. Brake lines normally have a flair on the end, so they're easy to identify. For fittings like this T fitting, if you look at where the lines attach, you'll see either a male or female cone area. Those too are flair fittings. Again, the seal is metal-to-metal at the flair, so no sealant on the threads. If they're working as designed, no fluid will ever reach the threads. There are other connections in the brake system, so agreed it can be confusing. Some use banjo fittings. There the seal is provided by the aluminum or copper crush washer. Some connections are NPT. Like in Wilwood master cylinders and Wilwood calipers. Others as well. Those are the ones that need sealant, as in that case the tapered threads are providing the seal. Clear as mud?

Those spacers are for a donor master cylinder. If you're using a Wilwood pedal box, put in your extra pieces box.

[Pat427]

Thanks edwardb and cv2065 for your responses, I appreciate them.

Now for the rookie newbie questions of the day:

1) In the build manual it says the 3/4" master cylinder is for the front brake lines and the 5/8th master cylinder is for the rear brakes. The two master cylinders look the same to me. How do I tell which one is the 3/4" and which one is the 5/8"?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104516&d=1553639849

2) Are the brake lines and fuel lines the same material and brand? All the lines that came with my kit say, "Rhinohide Brake Lines".
Are the ones that say 5/16thx60 used as fuel lines? Or am I just missing the fuel lines all together?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104522&d=1553640132

Thank you as always,

Patrick

[edwardb]

Thanks edwardb and cv2065 for your responses, I appreciate them.

Hopefully my flair explanation makes sense. It's important to get this part right. For your other questions:

1. The two MC's are the same physical size outside. But the bore is different. You should see marking on the body of the MC's. Mine have had .75 and .625. Not real obvious, but should be there. Note they can go on either side. Doesn't matter as far as the pedal box is concerned. They should be mounted to work best with your planned brake line routing.

2. 3/16 is for your brake lines. 5/16 is intended for fuel lines.

[cv2065]

Sorry to disagree -- that's a flair fitting..

I stand corrected Paul. I didn’t realize that particular fitting was flared.

[Pat427]

Hopefully my flair explanation makes sense. It's important to get this part right. For your other questions:

1. The two MC's are the same physical size outside. But the bore is different. You should see marking on the body of the MC's. Mine have had .75 and .625. Not real obvious, but should be there. Note they can go on either side. Doesn't matter as far as the pedal box is concerned. They should be mounted to work best with your planned brake line routing.

2. 3/16 is for your brake lines. 5/16 is intended for fuel lines.

So I called Factory Five this morning with respect to the Master Cylinder issue. I spoke with Dave who mentioned that Factory Five has recently made a change and has gone with the 3/4" Master Cylinders for both the front and rear brakes. So there is no need for me to replace anything.

[Mark Eaton]

Patrick, I don't think you have asked this yet but you might find this thread about anti-seize vs loctite helpful, I did.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?562-When-to-Loc-Tite-amp-when-to-anti-seize&highlight=Loc-tite

[Pat427]

Brake Line

I started on my brake lines today. A little tougher than I anticipated.

I was only able to get the front lines that connect the front PS and DS brakes before I had to go to work.

My question for the forum: Is it okay to have the brake lines protruding out like they are OR do I need to re-do them to reflect the red lines so they are more "tucked" into the sides of the engine compartment?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104586&d=1553797585

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104587&d=1553797597

None of them are bolted down. I'm waiting for my stainless attachment pieces.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104585&d=1553797575

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104584&d=1553797564

Also, I got a my CNC resevoirs delivered today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104588&d=1553797607

Now it's off to work...

Thanks,

Patrick

[Fixit]

I'd try and tighten/tuck them in a bit more... you've got the material.
Take a look here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-Front-Lighting-Harness&p=334478&viewfull=1#post334478)

[Pat427]

Gravel Guard

Anyone know of a good way to get 3/16" gravel guard onto the brake lines that already have the flare and nut on them (ie..like they come in the kit)?

Thanks


Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Gravel Guard

Anyone know of a good way to get 3/16" gravel guard onto the brake lines that already have the flare and nut on them (ie..like they come in the kit)?

Thanks


Patrick

I do not believe that is possible... You would have to cut off one of the flairs and then redue the flair yourself. I'm not sure if you can buy the brake line with it all ready on it... May have to google that one...

[Boydster]

Gravel Guard
Anyone know of a good way to get 3/16" gravel guard onto the brake lines that already have the flare and nut on them (ie..like they come in the kit)?
Thanks
Patrick

I'll bet you could open up a bit of the start of the Gravel Guard and spin it onto the brake line. As you spin it on, it crawls up the tubing. You may have to trim the ends once installed to clean up. Thats the same way we install wiring harness protection ("spiral wrap") when the harness is already run and connected. Guess it depends on how stiff the Gravel Guard stuff is.

[edwardb]

Gravel Guard

Anyone know of a good way to get 3/16" gravel guard onto the brake lines that already have the flare and nut on them (ie..like they come in the kit)?

Thanks

Patrick

Agree with previous responses you likely won't get the gravel guard on lines with flares. It's not just the flare you have to get over, but also the tube nut. Just not going to happen. If you're using regular steel brake lines, e.g. the ones supplied in the kit, they're easy enough to cut off and make new flares. With a decent flaring kit of course. But I have to ask. Where are you putting your brake lines? In the normal location along the outside top of the 4-inch chassis tubes? That's the only run IMO that remotely needs the added protection and even then IMO isn't needed. In many thousand miles of driving over multiple seasons, even on our pretty crummy Michigan roads, haven't seen a hint of damage on the underside of my cars. Let alone with enough force to damage the lines. In the wheel wells, yes, and on the body itself. But that brake line location, and fuel line as well, just isn't vulnerable to the conditions we typically drive in.

[Fixit]

x2 ^

It's really not necessary.
Like you, #9365 is my 1st endeavor into building a car from all new parts, but not my 1st rodeo into (re)building some old rustbucket. I'm usually dealing with stuff that's on the darker side of 50 years old.
My experience with the brake & fuel lines on these old muscle cars is that they are usually in serviceable condition everywhere except the locations the "gravel guard" was used!
The "unprotected" runs are surface rusty, but the integrity is still good and they still work. The guarded lines are where they'll snap off in your hand. It seems that the guard acts like a big coiled sponge, and all the salty water/slush/crud gets trapped in there and keeps chewing on the lines.

Think about the intended usage of a daily driver, and the environment they run in, then your FFR Roadster...

[BadAsp427]

x3, You really don't need the "rock guard"

[Jeff Kleiner]

...My experience with the brake & fuel lines on these old muscle cars is that they are usually in serviceable condition everywhere except the locations the "gravel guard" was used!
The "unprotected" runs are surface rusty, but the integrity is still good and they still work. The guarded lines are where they'll snap off in your hand. It seems that the guard acts like a big coiled sponge, and all the salty water/slush/crud gets trapped in there and keeps chewing on the lines...



I've been messing with this stuff for over 40 years and have had the exact same experience and observation as John (this is just one of the many reasons why Jeff don't do rust anymore ;)).

Jeff

[Pat427]

Build Continues-Brake Lines and Fuel Filter Question


Well, yesterday was a long day spent working with the brake lines. I started using the kit supplied brake lines, but never could get them to look the way I wanted, so I ended up going in a different direction.

I ended up using a roll of NiCop brake line. This stuff is much more bendable and easier to work with, plus I was able to use my professional flare tool that I had bought prior to starting my build.
I was able to get the brake lines done. They're not perfect, but I think they'll work.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104824&d=1554081076

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104825&d=1554081093

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104826&d=1554081113

Additionally, I did not use any thread sealant/permatex, loctite or anything on these unions between the brake line and the adapter they fit into. Please let me know if this is needed seeing how I used a different type of brake line.


I got my fuel tank installed as well. The next step was to get the fuel filter mounted, which is where I ran into some trouble.

I can't seem to get the hose that connects the fuel filter to the fuel tank to cooperate. It's too long and when I try to bend it, it will kink.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104828&d=1554081166

I saw in EdwardBs thread the hose in question appears to be stainless steel. I'm thinking about making that swap in hopes that it will fit better (and looks better, imo). But if anyone has idea on how to get the filter mounted so that the kit supplied hose will fit..please let me know.

Last, anyone know this piece? It was in my E-brake hardware.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104829&d=1554081243

Thanks,

Patrick

[egchewy79]

Brake Line

I started on my brake lines today. A little tougher than I anticipated.

I was only able to get the front lines that connect the front PS and DS brakes before I had to go to work.

My question for the forum: Is it okay to have the brake lines protruding out like they are OR do I need to re-do them to reflect the red lines so they are more "tucked" into the sides of the engine compartment?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104586&d=1553797585

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104587&d=1553797597

None of them are bolted down. I'm waiting for my stainless attachment pieces.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104585&d=1553797575

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104584&d=1553797564

Also, I got a my CNC resevoirs delivered today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104588&d=1553797607

Now it's off to work...

Thanks,

Patrick

Pat
Been following your blog peripherally. I'm about the same stage as you in my build. I was noticing that you placed your DS to PS brake line in front of the X member. I've seen some other builds with it on the back side of the X member. I was wondering if there's a difference. Also any suggestions on measuring/bending the brake lines? I was thinking of using a string of the same length to determine how much "slack" to have on either end in order to make sure you don't run out of line before getting to the fittings and where to bend the line.
BTW, I'm posting my build in the other forum under egchewy. I found it easier when I was first starting to post pics on that forum. I started a build site on this forum but wasn't able to post pics initially and decided that it was too hard to keep updating two forums.

[BadAsp427]

For your fuel line, try swapping ends. Put the right angle onto your filter and see if it will fit into place the way you would like. The kit comes with a couple of different a break hook up systems. I can’t “which one that is for. But if you don’t need it on yours then it will go in the box of not used parts. I’m sure somebody will chime in as to what that is specifically for. But I believe it’s for the mustang donor brakes.

[Pat427]

Pat
Been following your blog peripherally. I'm about the same stage as you in my build. I was noticing that you placed your DS to PS brake line in front of the X member. I've seen some other builds with it on the back side of the X member. I was wondering if there's a difference. Also any suggestions on measuring/bending the brake lines? I was thinking of using a string of the same length to determine how much "slack" to have on either end in order to make sure you don't run out of line before getting to the fittings and where to bend the line.
BTW, I'm posting my build in the other forum under egchewy. I found it easier when I was first starting to post pics on that forum. I started a build site on this forum but wasn't able to post pics initially and decided that it was too hard to keep updating two forums.

Thanks for keeping tabs on my build. It's nice to knowing there is someone else out there who's also at my stage of the build.

I used the backside of the X-member for two reasons: First, I wanted the brake lines to be in front of the X-member because I thought the X-member might provide some protection against heat as well as any pebbles that might being flying around in the area.

Secondly, it's because that's what I saw on EdwardBs, Papa's, Wareaglescott, and Carls build threads.

As far as measuring the brake lines, I used clothes hangers. I took two clothes hangers and straightened them out and taped them end-to-end. I bent them all around until I got a general shape and length, then used them as a template for measuring the NiCopp. String probably would've worked better.

As far as bending the lines. I used this, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I definitely could have used a bending tool with a tighter bending radius, but was able to manage with above.

Patrick

[egchewy79]

Thanks for keeping tabs on my build. It's nice to knowing there is someone else out there who's also at my stage of the build.

I used the backside of the X-member for two reasons: First, I wanted the brake lines to be in front of the X-member because I thought the X-member might provide some protection against heat as well as any pebbles that might being flying around in the area.

Secondly, it's because that's what I saw on EdwardBs, Papa's, Wareaglescott, and Carls build threads.

As far as measuring the brake lines, I used clothes hangers. I took two clothes hangers and straightened them out and taped them end-to-end. I bent them all around until I got a general shape and length, then used them as a template for measuring the NiCopp. String probably would've worked better.

As far as bending the lines. I used this, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I definitely could have used a bending tool with a tighter bending radius, but was able to manage with above.

Patrick

I looked at some build threads again and it looks like Wareaglescott did his in front of the X member and Yama did his on the back side. Maybe I'll poll the forum for opinions.

[Boydster]

That bracket is for the e-brake. Its one of the 2 mount brackets.

[Pat427]

E-brake Cable Issue

So it appears my E-brake cables are too long. Did I receive the wrong cables? Or is this common and they just require shortening?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104871&d=1554129863

Here's the rest of the routing. I think everything else looks good, but the front of the cable where it attaches to the handle is about 15 inches too long.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104870&d=1554129853

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104869&d=1554129843

Thanks,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Pat, Perhaps they have changed the design a bit since 2015 when mine was fabricated at FF so this may not make sense. The E-brake cable should be going through a 2 hole mount on the rear cross bar just in front of the Differential on the passengers side. Then the pigtails of the cables would route under the 4" tube and to the ebrake handle. Now, many people, me included, put in a pulley modification so that the cable did not go under the 4" tube but over it and under a pulley that we installed along with a bracket to clamp the cables in and yes, we had to shorten them a bit. HERE IS A LINK (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=225428&viewfull=1#post225428) to EdwardB great write up on the modification if you want to check it out. It really is a much cleaner install.

Hope that this and the link provided helps.... Later when you get to working on the carpet and interior, here is a Link (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-Street-Legal-Gel-Coat-Driver&p=348290&viewfull=1#post348290) to how I sealed up the large hole that is along with the e-brake handle.... It may help as well.

Here is a photo of mine after the modification.
104889

BTW you are moving right along and things look really nice... great job!!!

[Fixit]

Here's some more fuel for thought... (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-Initial-Body-Fitment&p=335903&viewfull=1#post335903)

I'm using Ford parts for the rear brakes, but it details how I did the pulley mod.

[Pat427]

Build Continues- A Few Questions...

I'm still working on the E-brake situation. I found the mounting bracket with two holes to run the E-brake cable through and it appears the issue with the cables being too long fixed itself. I also assembled my E-brake handle and got it installed.

The only issue is when I crank the E-brake handle, there is still a little too much slack in line and the E-brake caliper doesn't move. I'm assuming I'm going to have to tighten the cable somehow, which will most likely come from shortening the cable. The only issue I have with shortening the cable is how to re-attach the little metal stopper on the end of the cable. Any thoughts?

Secondly, I was messing around with the E-brake caliper and I manually pulled the E-brake cable to see what action happens with the caliper and I noticed that even when I manually pulled the lines, the E-brake caliper still didn't budge. Not sure what to think about that. Any thoughts?


Last, I'm starting to look into my Fuel Line situation and had a question for the forum.

I'm going to use the In-tank fuel pump. I was reading the supplemental installation instructions on the FF website and it appears they have both the fuel send and return lines being flexible, which I have located. See Pic. The supplemental instructions don't make any mention of the hard lines. The instructions appear to just use these flexible lines to connect the fuel tank to the pressure regulator. So what's the deal with this? Do I HAVE to use the hard lines or can I just use these flex lines?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104919&d=1554218233

[Pat427]

Build Continues..So Do the Questions

I decided to move on and work on the In-tank fuel pump and ran into another question.

It has to do with the wires that attach to the fuel pump. There is a Red wire and Black wire. The issue I'm having has to do with the ends of these wires..they are different.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104934&d=1554234616

Here is a picture of the prongs on the top of the fuel pump.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104932&d=1554234581

The end of the Red Wire will fit over the prong and sorta "straddle" the male prong, which feels correct. There was even a little, "click" that made it seem like it was a good fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104933&d=1554234596

However, the end of the Black Wire is smaller and shaped differently. Because of it's size and shape, it does NOT fit on the male prong in the same manner as the Red Wire did. The best I can do is get the end of the Black Wire wedged up against the male prong.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104931&d=1554234563

Does this look correct? Something just doesn't seem right about the way the Black Wire is connected to that male prong.

Thanks,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Pat,
I have to bow out on your brakes as I'm not familiar with your setup. As far as your electrical connections, the way you have the black wire is INCORRECT. It needs to have a connector that clips over the prong on the pump just as the positive wire did. You may have to cut off the current connector and solder/crimp on a new, correct sized one. Remember, when completed, this is going to be inside your fuel tank. You do not want it coming free while your driving down the road. I can not tell by the photo, but it kinda looks like the negative terminal on your fuel pump is actually a slightly bit thinner (not as wide) than the positive. Are you sure the current connector is not wide enough to be pushed over the terminal? Don't over force it and brake something, just asking so you will give it a second luck before you do the work to replace it.

[Boydster]

Yeah, do not leave the pump wiring like that. That black could pop loose and run up against the red and then you've got a classic powered short circuit and maybe sparks in your tank.

Also, you can use flexible fuel line for the entire run. Safer and more OEM is to run the hard line for most of the length of the car, adapting to flex at the engine and at the tank. Some states may have something to say about all flex line... but maybe not. Have to check on that.

[Pat427]

Thanks for the advice.

What I can’t understand is WHY there two different ends to those wires?
It’s little things like this that I just don’t understand.

I’ll try to press the end of the black wire over the male prong, but I’m not feeling too confident.
I see a call to FF in the near future.

[BadAsp427]

Actually it’s a very good reason that it’s different. It’s to make sure that you don’t hook them up incorrectly. It would run the pump backwards which would not do anything good for you. I think it you’ll probably get it worked out. Always a learning experience LOL

[Pat427]

Carl, you're right. I stand corrected. I certainly don't want a fuel pump working in reverse.

[Pat427]

The Build Goes On...Lot's of Rambling and a Few Questions

So, my progress has slowed significantly over the past week or so. I'm starting to get into the nitty-gritty part of the build, which means I'm getting into even more stuff that I know even less about than before. I'm second and third guessing myself on every little thing, which is really slowing me down.

First, I've had the hardest time with the fuel filter issue. I won't bother the forum with my whining, but I suffice it to say, I'm waiting on a hose from Breeze that connect the fuel filter to the fuel pump. Hopefully once that arrives I can get moving again.

I also managed to get my fuel pump installed. I'm using the FF in-tank pump, which is a Walbro 255lph. Now, I have zero understanding of pumps, pressure, psi as it pertains to engine performance. None.

My engine came with a Holly Sniper EFI, which comes with an In-line fuel pump. I was not really excited about using an In-line pump. The mounting of the pump seemed cumbersome and not pleasing to the eye, so I elected to go with an In-tank pump. I called the folks over at Holly to discuss the choice to use an In-tank pump. The guy on the phone said that using an In-tank pump was perfectly acceptable. I explained to him that I was using a Walbro 255lph and he said that should be fine. However, he did mention that whatever pump I use, it needs to be able to achieve 60psi.

Now...when I look on the internet, I can't find a definitive answer as to whether or not the Walbro 255 can achieve the necessary 60psi. Some places say it is fine for high horsepower engine (like mine, 538hp), but other places say it only can achieve like 43psi.

Any thoughts out there?

Also, as per the recommedation of BadAsp427, I added a length of hose to the end of the fuel return line that is inside the tank in an effort to reduce amount of turbulence the returning fuel causes.

I really really hope I don't have to replace my fuel pump with a more powerful one, because I had a heck of a time getting the pump assembly into the tank.

Next, I'm contemplating the fuel line issue. Honestly, I know this might not be a popular choice, but I'm leaning toward using the kit supplied flexible lines that go through transmission tunnel. The installation looks very easy and I like the idea of the lines being hidden in the tunnel. So, unless someone can come up with a convincing reason why I should not do this, then I'm going to proceed.

Last, I got my CNC double reservoirs installed. I got a piece of 1/4" aluminum from a local metal shop and painted it. I mounted the CNC reservoirs on the aluminum and then mounted them to the frame. It's solid as a rock. Still trying to figure out how I want to run the hoses through the footbox, plus I'm having a hell of a time finding grommets that will work. Ideally, I want a grommet with two holes in it, but I haven't been able to find one.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105232&d=1554756759

Last, I'm still working through my E-brake cable fiasco. I've ordered a pulley from Mcmaster and will be doing the EdwardBs modification. The only question I have involves the little metal ending of the E-brake cable. It looks as though I'll have to cut this little metal thing off and re-attach it. Can I re-use that little metal thing once I cut it off the cable or do I need to get another one? If so, what are these things called?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105233&d=1554756778

I also order my tires today: Nitto 555 G2, 255/40's up front and 315/35's out back.


Thanks for any input or advice,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Hey Pat,
So let me start with your question about the fuel line. Regaurdless if you use the hard line or the flex line, the advantage of running the line on the outside of the 4" frame rail vs on the inside of the tunnel is that if anything goes cabluie... that's Bang in gibberish, the fuel line is protected on the outside of the tube where as on the inside it could be damaged and create a fuel induced hazard. Just food for thought.

As for the E-brake modification, if you are getting the Locar clevis like the one that I and Paul (EdwardB) used, you have to cut off the metal end anyway. You will not use it as the cable is held in with a set screw. Also, Ace hardware has some really nice pulley wheels for about $7.00 ea if you need to get them. They are actually the wheels for a sliding glass door... Ball bearings and very strong.

Hope this information is helpful.

[cv2065]

x2 on what Badasp said. I would not run fuel lines through the tunnel.

Regarding the Walbro 255, I'm no pump specialist, but the output will be a variable depending on the regulator. I think some sites test at different pressures, which is why it can be confusing. From what I've read, the Walbro will run up to 80psi on the GSS series (340, 341 and 342) and will support 500+ HP. Not sure which one you have?

As for grommets, I was never able to find one with individual holes, and I looked everywhere. Found one with 3 holes, but it would never fit the hoses right. Ended up just drilling my own and grommeting those holes.

Hope that helps..

[Pat427]

E-brake Cable Continues

I wanted to run my E-brake issue past the forum one more time before I go making any more mistakes.

I installed a pulley that I got from McMaster. (I'll probably add a second one, so each cable has their own pulley).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105388&d=1554841156

The question I have for the forum has to do with the union between the cable and the clevis.

This first picture you'll see that the clevis is hanging straight down from the E-brake handle. This is currently how the clevis has to be oriented in order for the cable ends to fit into the clevis. However, this orientation will not allow the E-brake to be functional because there is too much slack. If I crank the E-brake handle, it won't pull the cables taught and the E-brake calipers don't engage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105387&d=1554841143

Instead, I need the clevis to be parallel to the ground while at rest, so that when the E-brake handle is cranked upward, the cable will be under enough tension to activate the E-brake caliper.
In order for that to happen it looks as though I have to shorten the cable about 2cm or so. In the picture, I'm holding the clevis parallel to the ground (which is how I need it to be when the E-brake handle is down) and you can see how much extra cable there is. It seems I would have to cut off the metal button end, shorten he wire and then re-connect the metal button end. Does this seem correct?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105386&d=1554841130

As always, any help is much appreciated,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

So Pat the reason you have the extra length is because you made the wise decision to use the pulley modification. Part of the modification in the way that Paul, myself and others did it requires the use of the Lokar or similar addition. Take another look at Paul's modificaion Here. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=225428&viewfull=1#post225428) The Lokar part can be found at Summit HERE (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-s-8078?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-lokar&gclid=CjwKCAjwhbHlBRAMEiwAoDA340R4zruOP2muTcS8z2UN 3Ea05t8KOTxsC5YjH29osDPFRWjtFSicnhoCCMQQAvD_BwE) with this clevis, you would cut off the ends and put them in the clevis. Then you tighten down 4 set screws. I will tell you that I did not modify my clevis as Paul did, so I guess either way can work. I'll take some photos of mine and text them to you so you can see the difference from Paul's to mine. Hope this helps. Carl

[Fixit]

Lets address these things...

In-tank fuel pump pressure - I'm also using the supplied in-tank pump, but the "Corvette" internally regulated filter setup (from Forte's) on a Coyote. Our systems are apples & oranges, but for peace of mind my fuel pressure is 58psi at the fuel rail/point of use.

Fuel Lines - Do not run them down the tunnel. The chance of a U-joint or driveshaft failure (shrapnel) is MUCH greater than the car getting whacked hard enough to reach a main tube mounted line.

Reservoir Grommet - I found a plastic hole-plug that fit the diameter of the footbox hole I ran my hoses through. I just drilled it with the holes I needed. My local hardware store is one of those places that has everything but floor-space. They've got an entire aisle of those slide out bins with all kinds of doo-dads...

E-Brake Cables - You can snip the cables and install a new crimp fitting on the end... (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-Body-underside-prep&p=335903&viewfull=1#post335903) **Warning** It does take a specialized crimping tool to properly put these on! If there's a "chain & rigging" supply house nearby they will probably do it for you for a small fee, but you have to bring them the whole cable assembly. I would purchase the Lokar clamping piece and be done with it.

[Pat427]

Fuel Lines

I ran my fuel lines today. I listened to the forum braintrust and used the hard lines and ran them down the 4" tube.

It's not perfect, but I think it'll work.

Pictures are a little dark as it was the end of the day.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105468&d=1554942852

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105467&d=1554942837

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105466&d=1554942826

[BadAsp427]

those fuel lines look nice... I had a hard time going up into the engine bay also... It's all covered up with headers and stuff in that area anyway. Keep chugging along, you are making great time for someone who doesn't know anything.... LOL....

[Mark Eaton]

Check out these Seals it grommets. They are a little speedy but really nice. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sit-gs50238-bl

[cv2065]

Fuel lines look great!

[PeteMeindl]

Looks good, MKN!

[Pat427]

The Build Goes On


So today I divided my time equally between the garage and the living room to watch The Masters.

I managed to get some stuff done.


I mounted my fuel regulator and hoses to the hard lines. I took the AN fittings off the flexible fuel lines and used them for connectors. I then cut the flexible fuel hoses and used those pieces to link the regulator to the hard lines. I hope I don't need those flexible fuel lines for anything, because they're basically carcasses at this point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105624&d=1555193883

I made a few rookie moves today, which is evident by the extra holes you see in the firewall, which were drilled and then I realized they wouldn't work, so now I have those eyesores to look at. I'm gonna find some sort of metal filler and try to make them go away.


Then I decided I needed a morale boost, so I decided to put some shoes on the car just to see what they looked like. This put a nice smile on my face.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105626&d=1555193909

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105625&d=1555193897

I also got my package from Breeze, which was a fuel hose to connect the fuel send line to the filter. I had the hardest time with this step, but the hose from Breeze worked liked a charm, plus it has extra length which allowed for a loop in the hose, which I've been told is good in case you ever have to lower the tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105627&d=1555193922

I'm not thrilled with the connections looking a little different between the send and return lines, but it'll work for now. I might address this discrepancy later.

I also worked on my CNC brake reservoir. I switched out the screws that hold the reservoirs to the bracket so the colors match. Plus I managed to get the hoses through DS footbox. I found some grommets, but had to drill the hole in the grommet a little bigger in order for the hose to go through. Drilling a rubber grommet was a little dicey, but I still have my fingers. The grommets are a little messy, but I'm going to somehow clean them up. Not sure how, but I'm sure something will come to me.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105623&d=1555193868

Tomorrow, I'm going to start the part of the build that I've been fearing since before the build even started. I'm gonna start on the electrical. You wanna talk about a complete absence of knowledge.... I know nothing about electrical work. Zero. Nada. Ziltch. Goose Egg. So I'm gonna be going slow and hopefully avoid making any mistake or electrocuting myself. I'm also going to start assembling the dashboard.

If ya'll see anything that looks wrong, please let me know,

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Hey Pat, all is looking good. As for the couple of holes that you did in error, one way to fill them is with a nice looking chrome / black / silver (your choice) head bolt. Something 1/4" long that will just hold a nut on the inside. It will look like it is suppose to be there. Another thought is that you just discovered a great place for your metal identification plate.... just a thought. Electrical can be initially daunting, but as you get into it and follow the wiring diagram in the Ron Francis Manual, it will begin to come together for you. Reach out to me if needed, glad to help.

[Jeff Kleiner]

If ya'll see anything that looks wrong, please let me know,

Patrick

Rear tires are on the wrong sides. That's all I got---looking good :)

Jeff

[Mark Eaton]

Patrick, Looks like you're making good progress. You mentioned that you have a Holley Sniper EFI. I have the 550-510K Sniper which has its own built in fuel pressure regulator. Not sure which Sniper you have but you may not need the external fuel pressure regulator.

Mark

[Papa]

Patrick, Looks like you're making good progress. You mentioned that you have a Holley Sniper EFI. I have the 550-510K Sniper which has its own built in fuel pressure regulator. Not sure which Sniper you have but you may not need the external fuel pressure regulator.

Mark

X2 - I believe all the Sniper EFIs have an internal (60 PSI) regulator. You'll want to be certain before plumbing up the fuel connections or your two regulators will be fighting each other.

Dave

[Papa]

The Build Goes On


So today I divided my time equally between the garage and the living room to watch The Masters.

I managed to get some stuff done.


I mounted my fuel regulator and hoses to the hard lines. I took the AN fittings off the flexible fuel lines and used them for connectors. I then cut the flexible fuel hoses and used those pieces to link the regulator to the hard lines. I hope I don't need those flexible fuel lines for anything, because they're basically carcasses at this point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105624&d=1555193883

I made a few rookie moves today, which is evident by the extra holes you see in the firewall, which were drilled and then I realized they wouldn't work, so now I have those eyesores to look at. I'm gonna find some sort of metal filler and try to make them go away.


Then I decided I needed a morale boost, so I decided to put some shoes on the car just to see what they looked like. This put a nice smile on my face.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105626&d=1555193909

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105625&d=1555193897

I also got my package from Breeze, which was a fuel hose to connect the fuel send line to the filter. I had the hardest time with this step, but the hose from Breeze worked liked a charm, plus it has extra length which allowed for a loop in the hose, which I've been told is good in case you ever have to lower the tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105627&d=1555193922

I'm not thrilled with the connections looking a little different between the send and return lines, but it'll work for now. I might address this discrepancy later.

I also worked on my CNC brake reservoir. I switched out the screws that hold the reservoirs to the bracket so the colors match. Plus I managed to get the hoses through DS footbox. I found some grommets, but had to drill the hole in the grommet a little bigger in order for the hose to go through. Drilling a rubber grommet was a little dicey, but I still have my fingers. The grommets are a little messy, but I'm going to somehow clean them up. Not sure how, but I'm sure something will come to me.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105623&d=1555193868

Tomorrow, I'm going to start the part of the build that I've been fearing since before the build even started. I'm gonna start on the electrical. You wanna talk about a complete absence of knowledge.... I know nothing about electrical work. Zero. Nada. Ziltch. Goose Egg. So I'm gonna be going slow and hopefully avoid making any mistake or electrocuting myself. I'm also going to start assembling the dashboard.

If ya'll see anything that looks wrong, please let me know,

Patrick

Wiring a car is a lot different than wiring a house. Home electrical is easy for me, car electrical … a bit more challenging due to the variations on how circuits can be configured. You need to be comfortable with the wiring diagrams. If not, take some time to try to make sense of them BEFORE you start connecting things up. Laying out the harnesses is straight forward and will get you into the task. Get some wire loom in different sizes -- neatness counts! I like this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTMZGBG/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It comes in a range of sizes and makes your wiring look a lot better when you're done. Also be sure to get a good supply of heat shrink tubing. Buying in bulk is cheaper:

https://www.amazon.com/Lucksender-Feet-Meter-2inch-Polyolefin/dp/B00SPNM5BQ/ref=pd_sim_328_5/141-8602847-8992561?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00SPNM5BQ&pd_rd_r=89d45a5b-5ece-11e9-a6d1-89beb44619b8&pd_rd_w=d5eEC&pd_rd_wg=nuDqK&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=2AZTJ6QE0WXYBVZZJFAW&psc=1&refRID=2AZTJ6QE0WXYBVZZJFAW

Again, it comes in a bunch of different diameters, so you may want a couple of different sizes.

A good quality crimper is a must! Don't settle for the cheap ones. I like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045CUMLQ/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lastly, consider Weatherpack connectors for the light connections (headlight, marker, signal, and brake).

Dave

[Pat427]

Tip Toeing Along

So, I had intentions of mocking up my wiring harnesses today, but decided instead to re-do my brake lines. I just wasn't completely happy with the way they looked, so I got another roll of NiCopp line and started over. It's amazing how much faster I was able to get this done the second time. Although the pictures might not look drastically different, I can assure you that up close the lines look much cleaner. I just knew I would always be annoyed if I had not fixed them, so I'm very happy I re-did them.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105690&d=1555285485


Next, a big thank you to the forum and a big palm-to-my-forehead with respect to the fuel regulator issue. I have confirmed that my Holley Sniper already has a fuel regulator, so there is no need for the one that I spent all day mounting. :mad:

So, I removed the fuel regulator.

I then started on my wiring harness. I was able to get the fuse box mounted, ground wire drilled into the frame, brake and clutch safety wires connected. I also drilled a couple holes in the firewall using a hole saw and got some of the wires to go through. Thats all I had in me for the day.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105692&d=1555285505

Last, I just wanted to double check with the forum that I am supposed to cut this mounting flange off of my TKO-600?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105693&d=1555285519

Thanks,
Patrick

[Pat427]

Wiring a car is a lot different than wiring a house. Home electrical is easy for me, car electrical … a bit more challenging due to the variations on how circuits can be configured. You need to be comfortable with the wiring diagrams. If not, take some time to try to make sense of them BEFORE you start connecting things up. Laying out the harnesses is straight forward and will get you into the task. Get some wire loom in different sizes -- neatness counts! I like this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTMZGBG/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It comes in a range of sizes and makes your wiring look a lot better when you're done. Also be sure to get a good supply of heat shrink tubing. Buying in bulk is cheaper:

https://www.amazon.com/Lucksender-Feet-Meter-2inch-Polyolefin/dp/B00SPNM5BQ/ref=pd_sim_328_5/141-8602847-8992561?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00SPNM5BQ&pd_rd_r=89d45a5b-5ece-11e9-a6d1-89beb44619b8&pd_rd_w=d5eEC&pd_rd_wg=nuDqK&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=2AZTJ6QE0WXYBVZZJFAW&psc=1&refRID=2AZTJ6QE0WXYBVZZJFAW

Again, it comes in a bunch of different diameters, so you may want a couple of different sizes.

A good quality crimper is a must! Don't settle for the cheap ones. I like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045CUMLQ/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lastly, consider Weatherpack connectors for the light connections (headlight, marker, signal, and brake).

Dave


Papa,

Thank you for your recommendations. I'll likely be taking you up on all of those suggestions. I've been reading your thread (among others) as a huge source of information, so I appreciate the detail of your build.

[edwardb]

Last, I just wanted to double check with the forum that I am supposed to cut this mounting flange off of my TKO-600?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105693&d=1555285519

Thanks,
Patrick

That's the spot.

https://oi867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Misc%20Pics/transmission_tko_trim_zpsb7u8s0wh.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Misc%20Pics/transmission_tko_trim_zpsb7u8s0wh.jpg.html)

[Dave Howard]

Tip Toeing Along

Last, I just wanted to double check with the forum that I am supposed to cut this mounting flange off of my TKO-600?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105693&d=1555285519


Roger that. No special tool required. Pretty simple with a hack saw and a file to clean it up.

[DavidW]

Some have used a sawsall, I used a grinder with a cut off disc. Watch the heat.

[Pat427]

I'm Still Here..

I've been on a rough stretch at work over the past eight days, so I've had minimal time to work on the car. I think I'm going into withdrawal.

I did manage to get a couple things done.

I was able to get my drop trunk modification done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106207&d=1555985268

Also, I roughly laid out the wiring harness and mounted the fuse box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106208&d=1555985282

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106206&d=1555985253

I also installed the cockpit floor panels.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106205&d=1555985239

Thats about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to dedicate much time to the build over the next week or so. I hate when work gets in the way of having fun.

[Pat427]

I'm Still Here

I'm still here. I haven't had much free time to work on the car recently, plus I went and got married followed by a honeymoon, so I've been out of the garage for the past couple of weeks. But, I'm back and ready to resume the build.

Not much to discuss today.

I did manage to bleed my brakes with the help of the new wife. I think they're working correctly. I had one leak from the rear T-joint which was a huge PITA because I ended up having to make a whole new length of brake line (flares and all) and re-install it. Once I did that, there was no more leak.

There is a little bit of rubbing of the rotors on the brake pads, but not too much. When I spin the front wheels, they'll spin for about 2-3 seconds before stopping on their own, but if I push the brake pedal, those bad boys stop on a dime.

Other than that, I decided to put the car on the ground today. It was a little nerve-racking to put the car down, but it went okay. I'm getting the car ready to drop the engine in. I found an engine lift, but I'm still working on getting it into my possession because my daily driver is a smallish SUV and the lift won't fit in the back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106786&d=1557093529

I temporarily installed the roll bar just for fun.

Anyway, hopefully I can get that next step done soon.

Pat

[BadAsp427]

I'm Still Here

I'm still here. I haven't had much free time to work on the car recently, plus I went and got married followed by a honeymoon, so I've been out of the garage for the past couple of weeks. But, I'm back and ready to resume the build.

Not much to discuss today.

I did manage to bleed my brakes with the help of the new wife. I think they're working correctly. I had one leak from the rear T-joint which was a huge PITA because I ended up having to make a whole new length of brake line (flares and all) and re-install it. Once I did that, there was no more leak.

There is a little bit of rubbing of the rotors on the brake pads, but not too much. When I spin the front wheels, they'll spin for about 2-3 seconds before stopping on their own, but if I push the brake pedal, those bad boys stop on a dime.

Other than that, I decided to put the car on the ground today. It was a little nerve-racking to put the car down, but it went okay. I'm getting the car ready to drop the engine in. I found an engine lift, but I'm still working on getting it into my possession because my daily driver is a smallish SUV and the lift won't fit in the back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106786&d=1557093529

I temporarily installed the roll bar just for fun.

Anyway, hopefully I can get that next step done soon.

Pat

Looks awesome Pat... And Congratulations on the wedding... I knew that was coming up soon. FWIW, I had the exact problem on my rear brake crossover line, except my leak was at the passenger side end. Keep up the great work and let me know how I can help, I'm only a quick drive away....

[edwardb]

There is a little bit of rubbing of the rotors on the brake pads, but not too much. When I spin the front wheels, they'll spin for about 2-3 seconds before stopping on their own...

What you're describing sounds normal. Disk brake pads are supposed to maintain slight contact with the rotor at all times. Hard to say whether 2-3 seconds is the right time. But definitely not as free-wheeling as before you added the brakes and bled them.

[Fixit]

I shot this awhile ago for another builder... https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY

[Pat427]

I shot this awhile ago for another builder... https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY


Fixit,

Thanks for posting this video. This is almost exactly what mine sounds/looks like. Makes me feel a little better about things.

Cheers,
Patrick

[miller7448]

Patrick, sorry I'm late on reading and commenting on your post. Just curious, did you drill out (enlarge) the holes on the in tank fuel pump?

[Pat427]

Patrick, sorry I'm late on reading and commenting on your post. Just curious, did you drill out (enlarge) the holes on the in tank fuel pump?

Miller,

Which holes in the fuel pump are you referring?

[PeteMeindl]

Congrats on getting married! :)

[BadAsp427]

Pat, take a look in your build manual about page 168 where it talks about the "Prep" of putting in your fuel pickup. It talks about drilling out the pickup tubes. It will make sense when you see it.

[Pat427]

Transmission Install....Stalled Out

Today I'm attempting to attach my TK0-600 transmission to my engine.

I have not had much luck, so I'm turning to the forum for a save.

Basically, I can't get the transmission to fully slide into the bell housing.

This is a picture of my transmission.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106946&d=1557413616


This is a picture looking into the bell housing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106947&d=1557413631


When my monkey brain looks at these pictures I think to myself..."round peg goes into round hole" Well.....

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106948&d=1557413644

This is as far as I can get the transmission to slide into the bell housing. Any thoughts? Should I hit the transmission with a hammer and force it in? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Pat

[Pat427]

Miller,

Which holes in the fuel pump are you referring?


Miller,

I did attempt to drill those holes as described in the manual, however the holes were already bigger than the 1/4 and 9/32 drill bit, so I don't think it really did anything to expand the holes.

[edwardb]

This is as far as I can get the transmission to slide into the bell housing. Any thoughts? Should I hit the transmission with a hammer and force it in? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Pat

Umm... NO. Please don't beat on it. My experience is the TKO is a tight fit into the Quicktime bell housing. But you're not that far yet. Looks to me like the end of the input shaft is not making it into the pilot bearing on the end of the crankshaft. You can check the fit by measuring the diameter of each before assembly, just to be sure all is proper. Then it's a matter of lining it up by moving the transmission around a bit until it goes in. That's assuming the input shaft length and bell housing are a proper match.

[Pat427]

Transmission!

Thanks edwardb for the tip.

I measured everything like you said and ensured the sizes all matched up.

I then tried again with a little more wiggle and bam! it went in smoothly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106949&d=1557418100

Now I'm trying to figure out where to attach the engine hoist chains. Are there preferred spots?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Now I'm trying to figure out where to attach the engine hoist chains. Are there preferred spots?

I use a leveler and grab them from the 4 corners, either by using these pieces of box tubing bolted to exhaust ports or by bolting the chains to accessory holes at the front and rear of the heads:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106950&d=1557423757

Good luck!

Jeff

106950

[miller7448]

Interesting, I needed to go up two drill sizes to get to the recommended diameter in one of the two for the 427. Don't remember if it was feed or return.

[Pat427]

Moving Day

I'm working overnight shifts recently, so time in the garage has been at a premium.

I managed to get a few hours work under my belt today and got a few things done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107100&d=1557705807

I managed to get my engine off the palate on which it arrived. This was much more of a PITA than I had anticipated. I won't bore the forum with my whining details, but basically, I couldn't get the engine hoist close enough to the palate in order to lift the engine. I ended up having take the wheels off the hoist and cut the bottom of the palate in order for the leg of the hoist to be able to fit under the palate (you can see the hole in the palate next to my right hip).

I managed to get the engine off the palate and on the ground. I then moved the engine over to the front of the car.

I gotta be honest, I was a nervous wreck when I lifted that engine off the palate, but everything held. I had previously bought some Grade 8 bolts to attach to the engine block so I could hook the hoist.

Tomorrow I think I might try to get the engine into the car.

Stay tuned.


Thanks,

Patrick

[cv2065]

Good luck Patrick! Make sure you lube up that leveler as much as you can. It can be a bear to turn when the engine gets to a steep angle. Also, are you using chains in the rear of the crane or are those come alongs?

[Pat427]

cv2065,

I'm using two chains on the front and straps on the back. The straps are rated at 500lbs each and I've got two of them, so I feel like I've got enough security?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Patrick,
As you prepare to stab it in there if you raise the rear of the car high and keep the front low it will help with minimizing the angle you need to get it over the radiator tubing and into the tunnel.

Good luck,
Jeff

[Pat427]

More Updates


I had planned on trying to get the engine into the car today, but I weenied out.

I'm gonna hold off until I can get some guys to come over and help me. I just don't feel comfortable doing this on my own.

I did get some small stuff done today, so the day wasn't a total loss.

I've been reading a lot about how there's often some issues with the engine mounts not mating flush with the Dart block. So, I decided to test fit my engine mounts to see if I had the same problem. I've attached some pictures below. The mounts seem to fit just fine, but I thought I'd see what the forum had to say about the fitment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107148&d=1557787766

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107147&d=1557787749

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107146&d=1557787737


Also, I got an unexpected delivery today. I had ordered a glovebox from Alex's Custom about three weeks ago. I didn't hear a peep out of Alex after I spoke with him on the phone, but today my glovebox showed up. First class work. It looks really good. I had sent him a piece of leather that I'll be using to cover my dash and he used that leather to cover the front and rear of the glovebox door. Really happy with it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107145&d=1557787721

Ya'll take care,

Pat

[cv2065]

Glovebox looks good man! On the mounts, can’t really tell from the pics, but the block has some ribbing right behind the bolt holes on the mounts that prevent them from aligning with the block holes. You can try to run the mount bolts all the way down and see if they secure flush. Maybe the Engine Factory clearanced the block already?

[BadAsp427]

Let me know if you would like my hep with that engine install.

[edwardb]

The motor mounts should be 100% flat against the bosses on the block. Not completely positive from your pictures, but looks like there's a little bit of a gap there. If you check further, I suspect you'll find the added ribs on the DART block are keeping them from going all the flat. When this happened to me on #7750, my engine builder strongly suggested notching the motor mounts. It doesn't take much. Did not recommend cutting the block.

[Pat427]

Engine Mounts- Continued

So I took a closer look at the fitment of the engine mounts and as usual EdwardB was correct, there is a gap between the mount and the rib on the engine block.

When I looked closer at the block, it looks as though the ribs have already been grinded down? I guess this was done by the builder. Despite this, I still have a gap, so I forged ahead.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107527&d=1558191440

Anyway, I put the mounts back on the engine to see how I need to grind the mounts in order for them to fit flush against the block. This is where I hit a wall.

Warning: confusing description below.

The picture below is the Passenger Side front. Basically, its obvious there is a small wedge shaped gap between the rib on the block and the vertical portion of the engine mount.
The issue I'm running into is this: I need the whole mount to move closer to the block in order for that gap to get closed. I don't think grinding the mount is going to allow the gap to get closed.

Let me explain in a different way. I noticed the hole in the engine mount for the bolt is not perfectly round, instead it's oblong. This allows for the mount to be moved a little bit either closer or farther away from the block. However, in the picture below, the mount is moved as far forward toward the block as possible.

So, it seems like the only way for me to be able to close the gap between the mount and the block is to expand the bolt hole to allow the mount to get nudged closer to the block and thus closing the gap.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107525&d=1558191407


Maybe in this next picture you can tell what I'm talking about. In this picture, I've removed the bolt and nudged the mount closer to the block and the gap has been closed. The mount is flush on the block on both the vertical and horizontal contact points. However, with the mount in the position the bolt hole in the mount does not line up with the bolt hole in the block.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107533&d=1558197753

So what should I do here? Should I expand the hole in the mount that the bolt goes through? Or do I just have the wrong mounts?

Thanks,

Pat

[cv2065]

Just mark the area where the remaining ribbing is touching the mount and grind that area a little...test fit...then slowly repeat if needed. I did not grind on my block, only the mounts. It seemed like too much was being taken off the bend of the mount, so I contacted Mike Forte and he notched each mount then welded angle back into the mount behind the bolt holes to return the support. Many have notched/grinded without additional support and had no issues, but it’s up to you.

[Pat427]

Engine Install--Thanks to BadAsp427

Big day today! We got the engine in!

And by, "we", I mean BadAsp427 got the engine in.

BadAsp427 (Carl) was kind enough to drive up from Charleston to help me get the engine installed. I can definitively say that I would not have been able to get the engine installed without Carl's help. He came, he saw and he conquered.

We had a little trouble getting the engine leveler situated correctly, but were finally able to get everything in a good position and the engine went in without too much difficulty.
The pictures below speak for themselves.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107607&d=1558296605

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107604&d=1558296574

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107605&d=1558296585

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107603&d=1558296561


I still have some minor adjustments to do, but for the most part, everything is looking pretty good.

Again, big thanks to BadAsp427.

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Glad I Could Help!

[Desert Snake]

That's pretty sweet. Congrats.

[Boydster]

Very nice! Feels good to hit that point, doesn't it?

[Pat427]

Very nice! Feels good to hit that point, doesn't it?

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

[cv2065]

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

Just take it slow man. I found an Engine Factory video for you that might give you some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9C80Sy2a-o

[Boydster]

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

Just one job at a time, man. Think about the things that need to be done, tackle em one bite at a time. Thats how we tackle the big jets that come in with a laundry list to fix, and only have the one day to do it all. One bite at a time and dont get overwhelmed by the big picture.

[BadAsp427]

Pat, don't forget that big book on your work bench...

[Pat427]

Updates and Questions

I haven't had a lot of time to work on the car recently. Life has been throwing me some curveballs which has kept me out of the garage. But, I've managed to make a little bit of progress.

First, I have a couple questions:

When BadAsp427 and I were installing my engine, a small piece on the engine got broken off. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but there was a tag on it from my engine builder (the builder labeled everything on the engine) that said, "vacuum only". Below is a couple pictures of it. I've emailed the builder, but haven't heard back yet, so I thought I'd see what the forum had to say about it.

In this first picture, I'm holding the piece that was broken off right next to where it was attached.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108060&d=1559228769

The second picture is just more of a birds-eye view.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108059&d=1559228756


Any input would be appreciated.


Next question:
Header gaskets...

My engine builder specifically said to us the Fel Pro 1487 gaskets, which I purchased. See pic.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108061&d=1559228782

I've been able to determine there is not a Left and Right for these particular gaskets and I'm assuming the side that's showing in the picture is supposed to be facing outward. However, my question has to do with sealant.

Do I use sealant on these gaskets?

If yes, then where on the gasket do I apply the sealant? Do I goop it on the whole thing?

Also, which side of the gasket do I apply the sealant? The side touching the block or the side touching the header? Or do I put sealant on BOTH sides of the gasket?




Last, I finished my dashboard. It's not perfect, but it'll work. There is some wrinkles in the leather, but I think they'll flatten out once I bend the ends of the dashboard during installation. Also, I didn't cut the opening in the dash big enough for the glovebox to swing open easily, so I think I'm gonna have to attach a handle to be able to pull the glovebox open. I'm thinking something simple like a short leather strap or something.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108058&d=1559228742

As always, any input would be much appreciated.

Pat

[Pat427]

Wiring

Are there any good posts that walk you through the wiring of the dash gauges? I know it supposed to be pretty simple, but I can't seem to make sense of it and was hoping there was post somewhere that could really walk a newbie like me through it.

[Boydster]

Your broken piece is the PCV line, going into an intake tract instead of under the carb like traditional would. Dont understand or know that piece that broke off, tho. Sorry.

I've always installed my Remflex gaskets dry. Fel Pro should have a shiny, metallic side to their gaskets... that metal side goes to the header. I would install them dry, but others will say to use a copper based, hi-heat sealant. Edit: I looked at a Fel Pro site, and they said they like the gasket to be able to move around a bit during expansion and contraction... that means no sealant.

Nice dash. Nice work.

Doesnt the Ron Francis handbook have pretty nice instructions for wiring the gauges? I see the book in your dash picture. In mine, its starts on about pg 45 or 46.

Dude, you aint dumb... you're building a freakin race car. ;)

[Pat427]

Let the Wiring Begin

As everyone is probably aware, I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to building a car. Despite my complete lack of knowledge and experience, I've managed to make some decent progress on this build (with the help of the forum and BadAsp427 of course).

Up to this point in the build, I've been dealing with tangible pieces of metal...body panels, suspension, engine..things that I can see and touch. I can see holes and bolts, washers and cables, which has allowed my monkey-brain to more easily troubleshoot problems when they have popped up. However, now I'm getting into the real unchartered territory.

On the subject of wiring and electrical...I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. I know I've said that before, but wiring and electrical represents a new level of cluelessness in my head.

Therefore, I'm going to be relying even more heavily on this forum for guidance because I don't want to do anything to damage my car or cause the car to be unsafe. So please bear with me as I'm going to be festering on every little detail. Let the games begin...


So far I've been able to get the basic wiring connections on the back of the gauges. This step was pretty self explanatory. There is a step in the instructions that I want to run past the forum to make sure I'm doing this right.

It has to do with the instructions in the picture below:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108154&d=1559391013

According to this step, I'm supposed to connect the Dash Lighting wire to the Inverter White Wire. I believe the picture below is of the Inverter White Wire.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108153&d=1559390999

According to my monkey brain, the Inverter White Wire (pictured above) is supposed to get connected to the wire in the picture below...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108151&d=1559390967

If this is correct, I'm in a situation that looks like the picture below and I need to connect the two white wires.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108152&d=1559390984

I'm assuming I cut off the blue thing, strip the wires and connect them via a Butt connector. Is this correct?

Also, it appears the two white wires are different gauges. Does this matter?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Patrick

[Pat427]

Wiring Continues

I think I figured out the above issue. I twisted together the White Wire from the red/white/black bundle with the white wire from the Inverter and then butt connected that bundle to the Dash Light wire.

Next, I started linking up the Dash Harness to the gauges and I ran into a discrepancy between the Factory Five Wiring Diagrams and the supplemental instructions that came with the Vintage Gauges.


It has to do with the Tachometer.

In the Factory Five Wiring Diagram, it shows the Tachometer being connected to a wire labeled, "Purple Coil". See pic

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108176&d=1559415586

This is what it looks like:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108177&d=1559415599


The discrepancy is in the supplemental instructions for the Vintage Gauge set that I'm using. In these instructions, it says to connect a Yellow Wire to the Tachometer that will go directly to the (-) terminal on the ignition. See pic below of these instructions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108175&d=1559415572

This is what it looks like:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108178&d=1559415611

I'm assuming I should use the Yellow wire as shown in the picture immediately above, since that is what is described in the instructions for the Vintage Gauges. Is this correct thinking? Should use the Yellow wire that goes directly to the ignition or do I use the Purple Wire that is in the Front Harness?

The other question I have is this: If I do use the Yellow wire option, then what do I do with the Purple Wire that says Coil Tach? Do I need to connect this wire to something or do I just cover it in tape and leave it alone?

Thanks,

Patrick

[edwardb]

I'm going to assume the yellow wire you've attached to the yellow-green wire from the tach is from the Speedhut (Vintage) gauge box? As opposed to a wire out of the Ron Francis dash harness. So if the yellow wire is the Speedhut wire, here you have a choice to make about the gauge wiring. And hopefully this isn't confusing. In your gauge box you received sending units and cables to connect them to the gauges for the tach, water temp, oil pressure, and oil temp if you're using it (optional). In addition, you have wires in the Ron Francis harness also for all those gauges, and another branch coming out of the main harness called "sending units" that's the other end of the wires in the dash harness. You have two choices:

Option 1: Don't use the Ron Francis sending unit wires, including the purple tach wire you asked about. Instead, route the cables provided with the Speedhut gauges directly from the engine sending unit side to the gauges. Bypassing the Ron Francis harness for those connections.

Option 2: Attach the gauges to the Ron Francis sending unit wires in the dash, including the purple tach wire you asked about. Then attach the Speedhut cables to the sending unit branch out of the main harness. Or don't use the Speedhut cables at all in some cases. For example, you wouldn't need the Speedhut yellow tach wire. Just use the Ron Francis purple wire. Some for the oil pressure. You really don't need the Speedhut cable since it's a only couple of ring terminals. The water temp (and oil temp, if using) do have connectors on the sending units, so there you could splice on the Speedhut cable wherever you want. Behind the dash, in the engine compartment, whatever.

I prefer Option 2 because it allows the dash to be separated from the car with only the three Ron Francis plugs on the dash harness. Even though (knock on wood) I haven't had to take a dash out yet. Option 1 would require the Ron Francis plugs and the Speedhut cables to be disconnected in case of dash removal.

Hopefully this didn't muddy the waters. But it is important for you to understand I think.

[Pat427]

Wiring Continues

Thank you EdwardB for your response. You knowledge is much appreciated.

I'm slowly making progress on the wiring. But of course, I've hit a few hiccups that have confused me, so I'm turning to the forum for clarification.

First, the instructions talk about a button that attaches to the back of the Tach and Speedo, which I guess is needed for programming purposes. Pic below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108237&d=1559503264

Question: I only have one of these. Am I supposed to have two? (one for the Speedo AND one for the Tach? Or am I supposed to just use one for both?)



Next, according to the manual, I'm supposed to twist together three ground wires...the power distribution ground, gauge dial light ground and clock ground. Then I'm supposed to connect that three wire bundle to the black ground wire. See pic

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108238&d=1559503274

Question: Which black ground wire am I supposed to connect this three wire bundle to? I have two black ground wires, which themselves are a two-wire bundle. See pic below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108239&d=1559503290
Which one of these ground wires am I supposed to connect that three wire bundle to?

Thank you for any help that anyone can provide,

Patrick

[edwardb]

1. You only get one pushbutton with the gauges. It's needed to calibrate the tach and fuel gauge. But then not needed for them any more. You will want one permanently connected to the speedo to reset the trip odometer and access the options in the GPS speedo. Some pretty cool stuff in there. I mount it pointed in the lip along the bottom of the dash, pointed down, directly under the speedo. Out of site but convenient and makes sense there. You'll also need one for setting the clock, and that also needs to be a permanent installation. I put the button in the glovebox. But could be anywhere including also along the bottom of the dash. They're easy enough to make if you want, or can be ordered from Speedhut.

2. You can use any of the ground wires in the dash harness. The more recent versions of the harness provide a number of them. Use however it makes sense and works with your wiring.

[Pat427]

Wirings Continues

Life has really been beating me down recently and I haven't had much time to dedicate to the build. Things have been moving slow around here, but I've made a little bit of progress and inching closer to First Start.

I've managed to get the dash wired up (hopefully correctly).

I do have a few questions for the forum.

1st) Do these headers appear to be installed correctly?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108516&d=1560028548

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108517&d=1560028557

There is a Fel-Pro gasket between the header and block. No sealant was used.


Next, I might just be having a brain fart, but I'm not seeing where these wires are supposed to connect. They are: Front Lights (Left and Right), Rear Light (Left and Right) and I think the Horn. I can't tell where these are supposed to go? I thought the wires for the front and rear lights were already laid out in the front and rear harness, so I'm a bit confused about what to do with these.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108518&d=1560028572.


Last, I got a battery today. I went with the Optima Red Top. It kinda fits with the red and black color scheme, which is really the only reason I chose it over the yellow. I'm utterly clueless about batteries, etc, so I just went with what looked good.

I'm not sure about the final location of the battery yet, but it's way heavier than I imagined, so I'm leaning towards the rear of the car.


Last, this is a picture of my dash. It's not completely done, but I think it'll shape up to look pretty good once it's installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108515&d=1560028537

Other than that, I tried to get my driveshaft to slip into the transmission and I failed miserably. I cannot get that thing to slide in. Any tips?

Any help is always appreciated.

Patrick

[Ducky2009]

Headers look good. Verify the bolt size = what torque.
Wires are the connect points to the dash switches. NOTE: RT turn signals has their own instructions.
Did you remove the inner plug from the trans? The TKO instructions defines how. Don't damage the tail shaft seal while removing the inner plug. Hope this helps.

Edited: As you review the Chassis Wiring Harness instructions book, take note... the Hazard Switch (emergency flashers) are not listed in the instructions (at least in mine, dated Feb 2017). Look at page 29, Dash Harness wiring diagram. It calls for a DPST (double post, single throw) switch, supplied with the kit. The other switches (head lights, horn, wipers, etc) are covered in the back of the book. Additional items to consider: Heater or seat heaters

Wiring diagram for Hazard switch.
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/content/instructions/12195-hazard-wiring-diagram.pdf

All online instruction links can be found of the FFR home page, parts, instructions.

[Pat427]

The Build Goes On

I'm continuing on working on the wiring and the radiator today.

Couple quick questions regarding the radiator mounting.

1st: I wanted to confirm that I remove the pieces of metal from the frame since I'm using the Breeze Upper Radiator attachment.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108591&d=1560114694

2nd) Can someone verify that I have the radiator in the correct orientation in theses pictures.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108593&d=1560114761
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108592&d=1560114746

Thanks,

Pat

[Pat427]

Ducky,

Thank you for the info, I appreciate this very much. Although, looking at that diagram gives me a little bit of the deer-in-the-headlight feeling. Hopefully, it'll start to make sense when I get to that part of the wiring.

Pat

[cv2065]

Radiator orientation is good. Top inlet is on the passenger side and bottom is on the drivers side. With the Breeze upper mount, per the instructions, you only need to remove those 3/4” bars if you need the additional clearance at the bottom. I tried both ways with the Breeze bottom radiator support and ended up cutting them off.

[Pat427]

First Start....Fail

So I tried to start my engine for the first time last night and I failed miserably.

Basically, when I turned the key, nothing happened. Nothing. The fuel pump didn't make any noise, the dash gauges didn't light up or move, the little computer that controls the EFI didn't turn on. Nada. It was like nothing had any power.

So, I looked over the RF schematic a little closer and found some issues that I was hoping the forum could provide some clarity.

This first picture is of the schematic, zoomed in on the solenoid. The schematic shows there to be 5 wires attached directly to the solenoid. I cannot locate 3 of these wires. Currently, the only wire I have attached to my solenoid is the red (+) battery cable. I cannot find the other 3.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108710&d=1560259084

Does anyone know where the wires called Red-Battery Feed and Red-IGN SW->SOL are found? Because I can't find them anywhere and it appears they are supposed to be connected directly to the (+) terminal of the solenoid.

Also, I cannot locate the light blue wire called LT BLU-NS SW-->Starter SOL.

I'm assuming the wire called Red-Alternator FD is this wire:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108709&d=1560259067

Any help is appreciated,

Pat

[edwardb]

You're not going to get very far without those wires accounted for. :( Easy one first, yes that's the alternator wire. The other wires you're not finding are one of the main branches coming out of the main harness. The three red wires (alternator, battery, ign switch) are large gauge. The blue starter solenoid is a smaller one. First order of business is to find them. They're bundled together and should be marked like the others with individual wire marking plus a paper tag that says (I think) starter solenoid or something similar.

Now for the maybe confusing part. It's not necessary to drag those wires all the way down to the physical starter motor solenoid. Some do, but you may find they're not long enough plus it's a little messy. I suspect the term "starter solenoid" is a leftover from the days when there was a firewall solenoid. Those were common on Ford (and other) vehicles before the now common Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction (PMGR) starters with an integral solenoid. You can still use a firewall solenoid if you want, but it's not needed and basically is just a gathering point for the wires. I haven't had a firewall solenoid in any of my builds. Personally, I use a master disconnect to gather the wires at the firewall. But many also just use a binding post.

Here's what I recommend you end up with: Large battery cable from +12 terminal on the battery to the firewall area. If using a binding post, attach (1) Cable from battery, (2) Large cable back to the big terminal on the starter, (3) Those three wires from the RF harness (alternator, battery, ign switch). That connection will power your starter and also the RF harness. If you use a master disconnect, cable from battery on one side, all the other wires on the other side.

The blue starter solenoid wire does need to physically go to the starter and is attached to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. This wire has +12V when you turn the ignition key to start and closes the solenoid to spin the starter. Note this wire goes through a clutch safety switch, which is designed to be closed when you push the clutch down, completing the circuit. If you don't have that (or make some other arrangements for the safety function) the +12V won't make it to the starter and you'll have another no start.

I'm assuming you have the ignition switch wired per the RF instructions. Hope that helps and good luck.

[Pat427]

So I was able to locate the missing bundle of wires. They had fallen under my transmission, but I ended up finding them. In this bundle were three red wires and one light blue wire.

Two of the red wires were labeled and the third one was not. The two that were labeled were: Red Battery Feed and Red IGN SW-> SOL. I'm not sure what the third red wire is because it was not labeled. I'm assuming its the Red-Alternator-FD?

The light blue wire was the missing LT BLUE NS-SW-->Starter SOL

I went ahead and connected all of them to the solenoid. The red wires were a tight fit, as previously discussed.

I then tried to start the engine. The engine turned over, but it did not start.

The concern was I didn't hear the fuel pump whenever I turned the key to the ON position.

I was concerned that the fuel pump wasn't getting power, so I disconnected the plug from the fuel pump and then used a multimeter to test the fuel pump wire, which read a little over 12v.

I then took some extra unused wire I had laying around and connected the fuel pump directly to the battery (and a ground wire to the frame). As soon as I touched the wire to the battery...bam..the fuel pump started humming. (Granted, there was a leak of fuel from where the sender hose attaches ) so I only held that connection to the battery for a second or two, but I was encouraged that the pump worked.

But now I'm stumped. According to Papa, I must have a grounding problem somewhere? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Patrick

[Papa]

Patrick,

When you moved the inertia switch to the fuel pump control side of the circuit, did you connect the two wires together that used to come in and out of the inertia switch? That should only affect the RF fuel pump relay that you aren't using now, but just wanted to check that box.

Next question is are you certain you connected the Sniper fuel pump control wire to the correct tan wire in the harness? Pull the RF fuel pump relay and see if you still have power at the fuel pump when you turn the key on. If no, you may have tapped into the wrong wire. If yes, you should have power at the pump for about 10 seconds and then it should drop to 0 or nearly 0 volts. That would tell me the Sniper is providing the power as it should.

Dave

[Pat427]

First Start

I was able to start my engine this morning!

I think the issue was the red plastic plug that connected the wires to the top of the fuel pump sending unit was not tight enough. I ended up resting a 3lb sledge hammer on top of the plug to ensure a solid connection and I tried turning the key to the ON position. Bam.. the fuel pump clicked on, which it had not done previously, and a few seconds later I cranked the key and the engine came roaring to life!

I'll be honest with you, I wasn't fully prepared for it to actually fire up, so when it did, it scared the living crap out of me. I may have suffered a small cardiac event, but I think I'm gonna be okay.

I didn't run it for very long, maybe 15-20 seconds and then shut it off.

I noticed a small leak from where the Holley Sniper fuel line attached to the engine, so I tightened that up.

Next step, getting the clutch and fuel cable connected and finish up the radiator. Plus I still have to get the driveshaft into the transmission. Still struggling with that...

[Papa]

I snapped the locking tab off three of those plugs during my build. If the tab is in tact, just be sure that the plug fully seats and the tab locks it in place. I'd also put a bit of dielectric grease on the contacts.

[Pat427]

Power Steering

My excitement from starting my engine has faded in the face of hooking up my power steering lines. I'm a bit confused and once again, I'm turning to the forum for help.

These are the lines that came with the kit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108900&d=1560610975

I'm pretty sure the longer one (on the bottom of the picture, the one with metal fittings on both ends) is the supply line. However, my pump doesn't have a threaded fitting for this hose to screw into. I'm assuming the red arrow is pointing to the location in which the pressure line is supposed to attach, but it is not a threaded hole, instead it is a flared ending.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108901&d=1560611006

Am I supposed to cut one of the metal ends off the hose and just push it on to this fitting?

On the other hand, there is a threaded fitting on the back of the pump. Is this where the return line is supposed to attach or am I missing something here?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108902&d=1560611025

[GoDadGo]

The side with the hose barb I believe is the low pressure (Return) side.
Also, if that is a Saginaw (GM) style pump, then I'm pretty sure it will need to be either regulated down or at least restricted to work with the Mustang style rack.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60791/10002/-1

[Pat427]

Power Steering Hoses

I'm having a heck of time with my power steering hoses.

First, the Pressure Line is not long enough to reach its attachment point on the back of the pump. I don't have a picture of that.

Secondly, I cannot get the return line fitting to seat where it's supposed to on the rack. There is interference between the metal neck of the hose and the X member of the frame. You can see this better in the second picture. There is contact where the red arrow is pointing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108911&d=1560630324

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108910&d=1560630312

Any ideas? I'm open to any suggestions, but based on what I'm seeing, I see an aftermarket purchase in my future of hoses in which there is not such a prominent metal neck.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Papa]

Pat,

Save yourself the hassle and get a set of lines from Breeze. Tell Mark what you have and he'll get you set up with what you need. Also ask about a pressure regulator. You'll blow your rack seals out if that pump is putting out 1200 PSI to the Mustang rack expecting 700 PSI.

Dave

[Pat427]

Pat,

Save yourself the hassle and get a set of lines from Breeze. Tell Mark what you have and he'll get you set up with what you need. Also ask about a pressure regulator. You'll blow your rack seals out if that pump is putting out 1200 PSI to the Mustang rack expecting 700 PSI.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the recommendation. After wasting most of the day messing with these hoses, I think I'm going to take your advice and call Mark. I think I'll spend the rest if the day trying to get my driveshaft into the transmission.

[Pat427]

Driveshaft debacle

So I've been struggling with getting my driveshaft to slide into the transmission. I heard it was a little tricky, but I fought with this thing for nearly two days and I could not get it to slide in. After almost going insane, I think I discovered the issue. I think when I was trimming the metal flange off of the bottom of the transmission, I don't think I trimmed enough. Because of this, the transmission was resting on the 4in crossmember, which was causing the end of the transmission to point upwards just a little bit. However, because it was pointed up, I could not get the driveshaft to get level and therefore it wouldn't go in.

The solution...I took my engine and transmission out. (Palm-to-forehead)

I got the engine out and inserted the driveshaft into the transmission, which went in easily.

I then dropped the engine in again with the driveshaft still in the transmission. Luckily for me, my neighbor, who is a huge gearhead, just happened to walk by the garage and helped me get the engine back in.

We were able to get it back in with very little trouble.

BadAsp427 stopped by for a bit on his way home from what sounded like a looong roadtrip, but couldn't stay very long.

That's all I had in me today. I feel pretty wiped out at the moment. Now just for fun, I get to go to work for a nice little 8pm-8am shift.

Tomorrow, I'm going to re-do everything I had to take apart today. Hopefully things go together a little easier the second time around.

Happy Fathers Day to all you dads out there.

Pat

[PeteMeindl]

Driveshaft debacle

So I've been struggling with getting my driveshaft to slide into the transmission. I heard it was a little tricky, but I fought with this thing for nearly two days and I could not get it to slide in. After almost going insane, I think I discovered the issue. I think when I was trimming the metal flange off of the bottom of the transmission, I don't think I trimmed enough. Because of this, the transmission was resting on the 4in crossmember, which was causing the end of the transmission to point upwards just a little bit. However, because it was pointed up, I could not get the driveshaft to get level and therefore it wouldn't go in.

The solution...I took my engine and transmission out. (Palm-to-forehead)

I got the engine out and inserted the driveshaft into the transmission, which went in easily.

I then dropped the engine in again with the driveshaft still in the transmission. Luckily for me, my neighbor, who is a huge gearhead, just happened to walk by the garage and helped me get the engine back in.

We were able to get it back in with very little trouble.

BadAsp427 stopped by for a bit on his way home from what sounded like a looong roadtrip, but couldn't stay very long.

That's all I had in me today. I feel pretty wiped out at the moment. Now just for fun, I get to go to work for a nice little 8pm-8am shift.

Tomorrow, I'm going to re-do everything I had to take apart today. Hopefully things go together a little easier the second time around.

Happy Fathers Day to all you dads out there.

Pat

Man, having to take the engine back out is never fun... but good job that you figured it out!

[Pat427]

Driveshaft Bolts?

Can anyone tell me if either one of these are the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the adapter plate?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109030&d=1560819134

The picture in the manual looks different.

Thanks,

Patrick

[cv2065]

Driveshaft Bolts?

Can anyone tell me if either one of these are the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the adapter plate?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109030&d=1560819134

The picture in the manual looks different.

Thanks,

Patrick

Check out my build thread. Post #177

[Pat427]

Check out my build thread. Post #177


Thanks CV!

[Pat427]

Clutch and Steering Rack Questions

Ok, so I've had a rough couple days in the garage, but hopefully I'm getting back on track. I won't bore the forum with details, but life is really beating me down at the moment and I could use some good news, so I'm hoping someone can provide me with some glimmer of hope as I'm fearful I've hit a couple big walls with my build.

First issue has to do with the clutch.

I installed my clutch cable today. I currently have the standard clutch cable that came with the complete MKIV kit. I feel like the cable is installed correctly. When I push on the clutch pedal, everything feels like it should (pics below) The clutch fork moves how I believe it should, however, when I try to move the gear shifter through the gears, it will not move. It'll move side to side like it does when a transmission is in neutral, but it won't go into the gear positions. In this normal, or is there some issue with the transmission/clutch?

This is a picture without the clutch pedal depressed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109155&d=1560954515

This is a picture with the clutch is depressed. I know its hard to tell, but the fork moved about 1.5-2 inches. You can sorta tell how much it moved by looking at the bend in the string next to the fork.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109156&d=1560954525



Next has to do with my steering rack.

I had my car off the ground a few days ago and was trying to move the wheels left and right with the steering wheel, however, they would only turn maybe 5-10 degrees before locking up. I looked closely at the suspension and the wheels were not hitting anything. The steering shaft was also not hitting anything when it turned, but those wheels wouldn't turn left or right very much at all. Is this normal, because it seems like they should be free to fully move left and right when off the ground.

I'm hoping the forum comes through with good news.

Thanks,

Patrick

[GTBradley]

I originally installed my cable the same way you did with the tapered nut on the back side of the throw out arm. I then deduced that it should go on the front side and the regular nut on the back side. Reason being, in my mind anyway, was that the taper of the nut fits into the concave of throw out arm. This allows it to rotate just a tiny bit too. This also gave it more threads on the bolt to work with, as it had been all the way to the end like the one in your picture. I would suggest swapping those two nuts (not a very difficult job) and you'll get more travel and that's what you need as the clutch is not disengaging. I hope someone else can verify this for me as I didn't get it from an official source.

[GTBradley]

Also, you might think about what size pivot stud you used. I had two in my eng/trans kit and had to call Forte's to find out which one to use. I ended up using the shorter one, but you may have needed a longer one for more travel.

109158

[Pat427]

Also, you might think about what size pivot stud you used. I had two in my eng/trans kit and had to call Forte's to find out which one to use. I ended up using the shorter one, but you may have needed a longer one for more travel.

109158



I reversed those nuts, but still no luck. The gear shifter will not go into gear.

I called Mike Forte who was nice enough to talk to me even though I had not bought anything from him. He suggested I take off the mid-shifter plate to ensure the pistons were aligned.

I did that and I've attached a picture. I have no idea what I'm looking at to know if it looks ok.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109187&d=1560967937

On another note, I can get the shifter to go into what I think is the Reverse gear. If I move the shifter handle all the way to the right and backwards it feels as though it slips into gear. It will do this with or without the clutch pedal pushed in.

My fear is there is something wrong inside the bell housing, which would mean taking the engine out again and troubleshooting. Not exactly easy for a solo builder with no knowledge. I'm starting to feel pretty pessimistic about my chances of successfully completing this build. I'm considering stopping the project and hiring a traveling builder named Mark Doughtery to come rescue me. I just feel like I'm in over my head at this point.

Anyone with any advice?

Thanks,

Pat

[Greg K]

So you ran your engine without the clutch cable and I assume in neutral when you started it?

[Pat427]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge it was in neutral when I started it. The gear shifter would wiggle left and right as it does when you have it in neutral when driving. And when I started the engine, I had the clutch pedal pressed in, but that was only so the clutch safety switch circuit would be complete. I didn't have the clutch cable installed when I started it up.

[Greg K]

Is the tranny filled with gear lube?

[Papa]

I know my TKO-600 definitely needed to be filled to get it to cycle through the gears. Before actually starting the car and testing forward and reverse output to the wheels.

You may just need to get the rear tires off the ground and rotate them as someone tries to get the trans to go into gear.

[GTBradley]

My fear is there is something wrong inside the bell housing, which would mean taking the engine out again and troubleshooting. Not exactly easy for a solo builder with no knowledge. I'm starting to feel pretty pessimistic about my chances of successfully completing this build. I'm considering stopping the project and hiring a traveling builder named Mark Doughtery to come rescue me. I just feel like I'm in over my head at this point.

Anyone with any advice?

Thanks,

Pat

You're at a difficult stage and things do get better after you get through it. And don't forget what you've accomplished already...

[GTBradley]

Pat, is there resistance when you push the clutch pedal down? Mine is heavy and probably the heaviest clutch I've ever owned. I know you said the fork moves, but I'm wondering if it's moving far enough to disengage the clutch from the fly wheel. Does the pedal move to nearly the cross bar in the foot box or stop well before that and is there resistance the whole way?

[Pat427]

Pat, is there resistance when you push the clutch pedal down? Mine is heavy and probably the heaviest clutch I've ever owned. I know you said the fork moves, but I'm wondering if it's moving far enough to disengage the clutch from the fly wheel. Does the pedal move to nearly the cross bar in the foot box or stop well before that and is there resistance the whole way?


There was definitely some heavy resistance when I push the clutch pedal. I'm not sure how far the pedal travels in relation to the cross bar because I'm now at work and don't know the answer off hand.

I'm just worried there is some issue with the clutch or fly wheel that causing this.

I'm guessing I need to maybe add more transmission fluid to really get things slippery and then lift the back wheels off the ground and see if that gets the gears working. Also, I guess I need to figure out a way to get the fork to travel further when I push the pedal. Any thoughts on how I can do that?

[BadAsp427]

Pat,
I do not think there is any problem with your clutch or flywheel. Many time you can shift the transmission even without disengaging the clutch. You had removed the shifter from the transmission. Are you 100% sure you reinstalled it correctly? Ie, did you ensure that the parts all lined back up as you put it back on and did you put it back on in the same configuration that it came off? I would just about bet that this is where your problem is.

And as for the clutch cable, the nut that has the conical shape head needs to be sitting into the bowl shape portion of your clutch fork arm and the 2nd nut is a locking nut that you will tighten up against it to hold it in place.

Dude, you were in over your head when you started, but not now... you have learned so much and completed so much, you got this.... one step at a time. Just do you best to be sure that what you do and complete is done correctly the first time. Check, double check and then check again.

Call me if you need....

[Pat427]

Clutch Issue Continues

I tried to troubleshoot my clutch issue today and my confidence is at an all-time low at this point.

I lifted the rear of the car and put the transmission into reverse (which is the only gear I can get it into at the moment). I tried to spin the rear wheels and they would not spin.

I then pressed the clutch pedal all the way in, and the rear wheels still would not spin. Therefore, I feel the issue is with my clutch not working properly.

I'm assuming the only way to correct this issue is going to be removing the engine again and taking the transmission out of the engine, taking the bell housing off and go from there.

Anyone with any thoughts?

And of course, to add insult to injury, I'm fairly certain my steering shaft is not working properly.

When I detach the lower steering shaft from the upper steering shaft (see pic). The lower steering shaft spins normally and the tires turn fully side-to-side. Additionally, the upper steering shaft also spins normally.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109274&d=1561051991

However, as soon as I attach the upper to lower steering shaft (see pic), the steering shaft will not turn more than a few millimeters.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109275&d=1561052002

I have no idea what's going on.

My only saving grace in this whole mess, is that BadAsp427 is planning on coming back to my garage this weekend, so hopefully he can once again save my a**.


Thanks,

Pat

[PeteMeindl]

Don't give up! You're an inspiration to other 'mechanical knowledge nones' out here, like me, trying to make this happen! And you've come so far. You can do it!!

[Papa]

Clutch Issue Continues

I tried to troubleshoot my clutch issue today and my confidence is at an all-time low at this point.

I lifted the rear of the car and put the transmission into reverse (which is the only gear I can get it into at the moment). I tried to spin the rear wheels and they would not spin.

I then pressed the clutch pedal all the way in, and the rear wheels still would not spin. Therefore, I feel the issue is with my clutch not working properly.

I'm assuming the only way to correct this issue is going to be removing the engine again and taking the transmission out of the engine, taking the bell housing off and go from there.

Anyone with any thoughts?

And of course, to add insult to injury, I'm fairly certain my steering shaft is not working properly.

When I detach the lower steering shaft from the upper steering shaft (see pic). The lower steering shaft spins normally and the tires turn fully side-to-side. Additionally, the upper steering shaft also spins normally.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109274&d=1561051991

However, as soon as I attach the upper to lower steering shaft (see pic), the steering shaft will not turn more than a few millimeters.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109275&d=1561052002

I have no idea what's going on.

My only saving grace in this whole mess, is that BadAsp427 is planning on coming back to my garage this weekend, so hopefully he can once again save my a**.


Thanks,

Pat

Pat,

Check to see if the upper shaft is hitting the frame where it mounts just behind the dash. You may need to add a couple of washers to raise the pillow block up and allow the shaft to move freely.

Dave

[cv2065]

Pat,

Check to see if the upper shaft is hitting the frame where it mounts just behind the dash. You may need to add a couple of washers to raise the pillow block up and allow the shaft to move freely.

Dave

+1. I found it odd that this was a part of FFR's new design. FFR's recommendation, as Dave says, is to add some washers. Not sure if you have the RT turn signal system. If you do, then once that is installed, RT takes care of the washer thing with his design, so nothing else is required.

[MSumners]

I think your problem is your steering shaft is into the U-joint too deep causing interference, see below your picture and I took one of mine installed. It should be flush with the edge.
Hang in there you’ve already done so much, if it were easy it wouldn’t be rewarding.
I’m currently on approximately set number 4 of bending brake lines so I feel your pain.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109311&d=1561088805

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109310&d=1561088674

[Papa]

I think MSummers nailed it. I didn't catch that when I looked at the pictures, but the shaft does appear to be too far into the joint. You may need the pull the upper shaft a bit more toward the driver to get it to fit, so loosen the attachment at the pillow block as you rework that joint.

Hang in there, Pat! You'll be fine. Keep asking questions, and you have my cell phone number. Call me any time. Did I tell you how this electrical engineer thought he fried his gauges at one point during his build? Most of us have never taken on a project of this magnitude, but stay the course and you'll get there. It's like the saying goes, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

Dave

[Pat427]

Back on Track!

So today was a good day in the garage!

Carl (BadAsp427) agreed to visit my build today and help me for a few hours. Before he showed up, I decided to go into the garage and tinker with my transmission. Well, wouldn't you know it...the gear shifter went into the gears without any fuss. I guess the Tremac Gods smiled on me! I'm really not sure what changed, but the transmission appears to be working just fine! I was very excited about this.

Once Carl showed up we tackled the steering shaft issue. Papa had mentioned this in a previous post, but it appears the upper steering shaft was hitting the frame right in front of the mounting bracket near the dash. We solved this by adding some washers underneath the mounting bracket. We also took the advice of the forum and pulled the lower steering shaft out of the U-joint a little bit. These two changes have now allowed the steering shaft to turn like normal. Another win.

Another issue that popped up, but I did not share on the forum had to do with the lower steering shaft being too close to the engine. The lower shaft was literally about a 1/2 millimeter from hitting the engine, and when the shaft turned, it would actually hit the mounting bracket of the power steering pump. It was also hitting one of the pulleys of the power steering pump. Carl was able to come up with a plan of moving the pump and pulley about a centimeter towards the passenger side. This was actually much easier than it sounded. Now, the lower steering shaft clears the pulley. I am going to have to grind off some of the bracket that holds the power steering pump in order for the shaft to clear, but that will be an easy fix.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109380&d=1561230093
You can see the shaft can now clear the pulley, but I still need to grind off a little of that pointy part of the bracket for the shaft to clear.

Next, we lifted the rear of the car to see if the clutch would disengage properly. It did. Another win.

Last, we corrected the spacing on the upper control arms that were not properly spaced. I also learned a little about the alignment of a car, which was cool.

Throughout the morning, Carl gave me some really good advice that I'll be listening to as I move forward with the rest of my build. I cannot begin to tell you how appreciative I am for all of his help. He's been a lifesaver. I am also very appreciative of all the help the forum has provided me up to this point. You guys are awesome.

Hopefully, I can start buttoning up some things that I left undone and continue this adventure. I'm feeling much better about things.

Thanks for everyone's help and encouragement.

Patrick

[Papa]

Great news, Pat!

[BadAsp427]

Back on Track!

Throughout the morning, Carl gave me some really good advice that I'll be listening to as I move forward with the rest of my build. I cannot begin to tell you how appreciative I am for all of his help. He's been a lifesaver. I am also very appreciative of all the help the forum has provided me up to this point. You guys are awesome.

Hopefully, I can start buttoning up some things that I left undone and continue this adventure. I'm feeling much better about things.

Thanks for everyone's help and encouragement.

Patrick

:o You got this... Thanks for the shout out, but it's all you. Keep it positive and create that WIN each day... You are just around the corner from everything coming together.

The build is just a big patient, treat it as such :rolleyes:

It's time to change your name to Mechanical Knowledge Growing!!!

Oh, and I meant to tell you; put the Air Cleaner back on your "carb" or at least some kind of a clean cover to prevent anything from getting down in your engine. Tape, Ziplock Bag, etc...

[Boydster]

And just like that, Patrick, you've just become a better mechanic. Good to see you having a good day after the recent frustrations. And good job, Carl, for helping out.

[edwardb]

Great to hear your clutch is working and the transmission freed up. That test I recommended obviously wasn't a good indicator for your clutch since the transmission was bound up. That happens sometime in shipping like that video described. But now should be good to go. Hang in there and keep moving forward a step at a time.

[GTBradley]

That’s a big relief I’m sure about the transmission. I’d make sure you have it filled to the correct level too. You’ll know it when it pours out at the fill hole a little. Net win too, because you got those cable nuts switched around at the clutch throw out arm.

[Pat427]

And The Build Goes On

I decided to take a few steps backwards today and start cleaning up some things that I may have done a bit sloppy the first time.

First, I decided to clean up my wiring and make it look clean and organized. I'm comfortable now that I know everything works properly, so now it's time to make it look pretty as well.

I did have a question for the forum. It has to do with the Voltage gauge. I have the Factory Five Vintage Gauges. These gauges came with a supplemental instruction booklet, which differs slightly from the wiring booklet that comes with the Ron Francis harness.

In the picture below (which is from the supplemental instructions), it says to connect the Yellow wire that is coming off the Voltage Gauge to a +12V source. Which source do you all recommend I use for this connection? Secondly, I'm a bit confused by the instructions in the box (the red arrow is pointing to). I was hoping someone can clear this up for me.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109519&d=1561413672

Thanks,

Patrick

[Papa]

Pat,

Just use the same brown gauge feed wire for the voltage gauge. It's properly fused and ready to go. All that note is telling you is that you should protect the gauge with a properly sized fuse.

Dave

[Pat427]

Pat,

Just use the same brown gauge feed wire for the voltage gauge. It's properly fused and ready to go. All that note is telling you is that you should protect the gauge with a properly sized fuse.

Dave


Dave,

I'm confused because my chassis wiring booklet says to connect the Red Power Distribution wire to the Brown Gauge Feed wire. (see pic)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109531&d=1561419348

Therefore, am I supposed to connect both the Red Distribution Wire AND the Yellow Wire to the Brown Gauge Feed wire?

FYI, I changed my name.

[edwardb]

Therefore, am I supposed to connect both the Red Distribution Wire AND the Yellow Wire to the Brown Gauge Feed wire?

You can use any +12 volt ignition controlled source for the voltage gauge. It just needs a reference voltage to use for the gauge display. I also normally use the brown gauge feed wire as well, so yes connecting both the Speedhut gauge power (red) and the voltage gauge (yellow) wire will work. You could also use most any other switched source, e.g. radio, etc.

[Papa]

Here's the source of why I chose to use the gauge feed wire:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109568&d=1561467004

I knew I'd seen it someplace in the harness manual. Like Paul said, any +12volt keyed source will work.