VAHokie's Roadster Build Thread - Body Fitment Questions

[VAHokie]

Despite best intentions, it would appear I'm on a once-a-month cadence for updating this thread.:rolleyes: Since my last update, I was able to get the wheel/tire issue resolved, but not without additional drama. As shared previously, I opted to return the Michelin PS2s after having three tire shops unsuccessfully install them on the wheels. Having seen visual proof that Yokohama Advans fit on these wheels (thanks, Toadster!), I purchased a set of those. Took them to my fourth tire shop and they couldn't get them installed, but were certain they could get Michelin PS2s installed due to a slightly less rigid side wall (you mean the ones I just returned?!?). They were so convinced that they offered to order a set 100% risk free to me and if they couldn't get them on, they'd eat the cost. That's what we did and they were able to get them installed on the wheels. During all of this Michelin decided to discontinue the 255/35/18 size so I was left with either a 245 or 265 - I opted for the larger. When picking up the tires the installer shared a piece of advice: "When it comes time to get new tires, just sell the wheels." We'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

Here are the tires installed on the wheels.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134581&d=1598921941

With the wheels/tires in place, I dropped the car off the dolly for the first time in 1.5 years. She looks mean... and I forgot how low these cars sit!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134582&d=1598921951

[VAHokie]

I've also been plugging away on the dash and was able to finalize that over the past couple of weeks. I ran into some adhesion issues with the DAP Welwood Landau Contact Cement that so many others have used successfully. The likely culprit is the closed cell foam padding I had purchased as it wouldn't stick to either the vinyl covering or the aluminum dash samples I tested on first. I ended up using 3M Super 90 as it was the only adhesive that I could get to hold it all together. The DAP Welwood worked great on the vinyl adhering to the aluminum and ended up using that on the back of the dash to hold the pie cuts in place.

The foam would just peel right up with the Welwood.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134583&d=1598922395

Here's the dash mocked up in the car, minus the smaller holes cut out. I went with a custom competition layout as I like the look.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134586&d=1598922450

I also prefer hiding the dash fasteners for a clean look, so I did the modification many others have done with the mounting brackets along the underside of the dash hoop. I used #8 countersunk flat machine screws into angle aluminum that are affixed to the dash hoop with #10 rivnuts. With the aluminum being as thin as it is, I had to go a little deeper than I had planned to get the screw heads flush with the front face. This resulted in there being less material for the head to rest on, so I placed a washer immediately behind it to provide some more surface area. After countless mocks in the car to ensure the brackets were positioned exactly right, I tightened them down, applied some JB Weld over screw heads on the front face and sanded them down to a smooth surface to ensure nothing would protrude through my 1/8 inch foam and vinyl overlayment.

You can see the four brackets along the top edge of the dash here. The second one over from the right (DS) will be a little tricky to get to, but manageable once all the wiring is in place. All of the others will be a straight shot.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134584&d=1598922418

Here's a close-up of a bracket were you can see the washer placed between the dash and then angled aluminum bracket to give it more to seat into.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134595&d=1598924194

Here's the finished product in both a full view and close-up. I used a 1/8" foam to avoid the puffy appearance and a carbon fiber imitation marine grade vinyl that's UV and water resistant. I ordered enough to also cover my trans tunnel and may end up ordering some more for the door cards when I do them. Overall very pleased with how it came out as there's not a single blemish, indentation, etc. to be found on the dash.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134589&d=1598922472
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134587&d=1598922459

Couple of Pro Tips:
1) Jeff Miller shared on the FFR Builder Facebook page that you should shorten the PS side of the dash by 2.5". Did that and everything fits great.
2) For helping ensure a tight adhesion within the smaller holes of your dash, place appropriately size sockets in them to hold the leather, vinyl, etc. in place while everything hardens.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134588&d=1598922465

[VAHokie]

I've also been working on the wiring which admittedly is the most intimidating part of the build for me. After getting the harnesses laid out in the car and run to the appropriate corners of the car, I proceeded to get the main power supply in order within the engine bay. I had always planned to include a cut-off switch for safety reasons (both anti-theft and in the event I need to shut everything down), so I placed that on the trans A-frame panel under the dash.

In this pic you'll see I have the main battery power (+) running from the battery to the bottom post of the cut-off switch. The top post has two branches, one that goes back to the starter solenoid and the other that is routed into footbox and up behind my dash to a Blue Seas 100 amp bus bar, which I intend to run all of my accessories off of.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134596&d=1598925371

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134591&d=1598922509

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134592&d=1598922517

My upgraded fuel system also came with it's own fuel pump wiring harness which I've installed. More on that in a future post.

This weekend I plan to drop the engine and trans into the car so I can wrap up final routing of the engine bay fuel lines, mechanical throttle linkage placement, final wiring runs, etc. Big step and looking forward to hitting that milestone.

[GTBradley]

Good call on the cutoff switch. You might reconsider the gauge of wire you are running to the terminal block. Typically, the accessories don't total that much amperage, but if that wire you are using is as heavy as it looks you have the potential to deliver all the power your battery has to give, which is around 600 amps and with no fuse to protect from a short circuit. That could be a serious fire hazard.

[CraigS]

I like to use a fused panel like this.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--st-blade-fuse-block-6-circuits-with-cover--6557466?recordNum=151
You can barely see the stud/nut partially hidden by the 'Stereo' label for your input power. Then there is a blade fuse for each output. This way you can choose to fuse each circuit depending on the expected load. I also like to protect the battery cables w/ split loom.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor--fire-retardant-split-loom--P009_275_003_507
In a few places I have even doubled it up. First layer fits tightly over the cable and second layer over that. I am not sure how much good it would do in an accident but you can see it on most production cars and it makes me feel better.
PS; If you need any more tire work try PTuning in Manassas.
Your car is looking fantastic Tony.

[jrcuz]

Good to see your progress Tony, I haven't gotten much done with the heat I don't function as well as I used to. When I covered my dash I tried the DAP Welwood and it didn't work out. Maybe because I used felt between the vinyl and the dash. I do have almost the whole gallon left. I ended up using 3M 90 also. Per Craigs post above I have a lot of split loom left over if you would like some.
JR

[VAHokie]

Good call on the cutoff switch. You might reconsider the gauge of wire you are running to the terminal block. Typically, the accessories don't total that much amperage, but if that wire you are using is as heavy as it looks you have the potential to deliver all the power your battery has to give, which is around 600 amps and with no fuse to protect from a short circuit. That could be a serious fire hazard.

Thanks, Bradley. Appreciate the callout there on the wire gauge and terminal block. I used leftover 4 AWG from the 12 ft run that comes with the kit. I may opt for the fuse panel approach below that Craig suggests.


I like to use a fused panel like this.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--st-blade-fuse-block-6-circuits-with-cover--6557466?recordNum=151
You can barely see the stud/nut partially hidden by the 'Stereo' label for your input power. Then there is a blade fuse for each output. This way you can choose to fuse each circuit depending on the expected load. I also like to protect the battery cables w/ split loom.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor--fire-retardant-split-loom--P009_275_003_507
In a few places I have even doubled it up. First layer fits tightly over the cable and second layer over that. I am not sure how much good it would do in an accident but you can see it on most production cars and it makes me feel better.
PS; If you need any more tire work try PTuning in Manassas.
Your car is looking fantastic Tony.

Appreciate the suggestion, Craig. In using the fused panel, would I keep the 4 AWG wire that I currently have running to the terminal block in place, remove the terminal block and replace it with the fused panel, and have the wire run to the stud/nut behind the 'stereo' label? Then all my accessories would tie in to each of the fused screws? Re: the cable loom, I do intend on having that cover the wires, it's just not installed in this pic as you wouldn't be able to see the wire runs since it's black. I'm using the provided wire loom in the kit, although I don't know that it's fire retardant like the one you reference above. My plan was to use the loom and wrap the length in high temp electrical tape.


Good to see your progress Tony, I haven't gotten much done with the heat I don't function as well as I used to. When I covered my dash I tried the DAP Welwood and it didn't work out. Maybe because I used felt between the vinyl and the dash. I do have almost the whole gallon left. I ended up using 3M 90 also. Per Craigs post above I have a lot of split loom left over if you would like some.
JR

Thanks, JR. The DAP Welwood was a head scratcher for me. I must have spent 4 weeks trying to troubleshoot that through discussions with other builders, speaking to DAP and the vendor I purchased it from... I just couldn't get it to work. I appreciate the offer on the wire loom. I currently have enough for my existing runs with a little leftover, but i'll keep it in mind just in case.

[CraigS]

Appreciate the suggestion, Craig. In using the fused panel, would I keep the 4 AWG wire that I currently have running to the terminal block in place, remove the terminal block and replace it with the fused panel, and have the wire run to the stud/nut behind the 'stereo' label? Then all my accessories would tie in to each of the fused screws? Re: the cable loom, I do intend on having that cover the wires, it's just not installed in this pic as you wouldn't be able to see the wire runs since it's black. I'm using the provided wire loom in the kit, although I don't know that it's fire retardant like the one you reference above. My plan was to use the loom and wrap the length in high temp electrical tape.

Yes exactly correct. Good catch on the fire retardant. I hadn't even noticed that. I just grabbed the first link I saw illustrating that visual type.

[edwardb]

I've also been working on the wiring which admittedly is the most intimidating part of the build for me. After getting the harnesses laid out in the car and run to the appropriate corners of the car, I proceeded to get the main power supply in order within the engine bay. I had always planned to include a cut-off switch for safety reasons (both anti-theft and in the event I need to shut everything down), so I placed that on the trans A-frame panel under the dash.

In this pic you'll see I have the main battery power (+) running from the battery to the bottom post of the cut-off switch. The top post has two branches, one that goes back to the starter solenoid and the other that is routed into footbox and up behind my dash to a Blue Seas 100 amp bus bar, which I intend to run all of my accessories off of.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134596&d=1598925371

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134591&d=1598922509

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134592&d=1598922517

Meant to comment/ask about this before. I know several have as well. Agree that 4 gauge cable overkill for a 100 amp bus bar. But doesn't necessarily hurt anything. When you say "run my accessories" what do you mean? I've personally used that exact bus bar to connect the Ron Francis main power feeds (red battery, red alternator, red ign sw) and for that it works fine. Maybe you've seen that in my build threads. Those all feed into the RF panel with everything there fused. So completely safe and no fire hazard or whatever if used for that purpose. No different than using a firewall binding post, firewall solenoid, or dragging all the wires down to the starter as some do. However, if you do choose to use the bus bar to directly feed anything else, you would need to add a fuse or breaker on that branch as it would be direct battery power and has to be protected. Whether you need to add another whole fuse panel just depends on what additional circuits you're trying to power.

[Jammer369]

i am curious as to what the issue is with the 25th Anniversary wheels that makes them so hard to mount tires on. Those are the wheels I am planning on ordering as I LOVE the look of them. I was also planning on going with the PS2's in the 315 and 265 sizes. I would like to know if any of the tire shops elaborated on what makes those wheels so difficult.

Also, did you have to purchase the ffmetal Fat F-Panel?

[VAHokie]

Meant to comment/ask about this before. I know several have as well. Agree that 4 gauge cable overkill for a 100 amp bus bar. But doesn't necessarily hurt anything. When you say "run my accessories" what do you mean? I've personally used that exact bus bar to connect the Ron Francis main power feeds (red battery, red alternator, red ign sw) and for that it works fine. Maybe you've seen that in my build threads. Those all feed into the RF panel with everything there fused. So completely safe and no fire hazard or whatever if used for that purpose. No different than using a firewall binding post, firewall solenoid, or dragging all the wires down to the starter as some do. However, if you do choose to use the bus bar to directly feed anything else, you would need to add a fuse or breaker on that branch as it would be direct battery power and has to be protected. Whether you need to add another whole fuse panel just depends on what additional circuits you're trying to power.

Thanks for weighing in, Paul. My accessories include the CobraHeat seat heaters, USB port and Aeromotive Fuel Pump Wiring Kit (https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/premium-fuel-pump-wiring-kit/). I may run the main power feeds there as well to clean up the engine bay and reduce the number of items pulling from the starter. I'm not committed to the bus bar, although hate not using a brand new part. I'm most concerned it's wired in the most safe and logical manner. Sounds like swapping it out for a fused panel as Craig suggested would work. That would allow all the existing non-fused circuits (seat heaters, USB) to be protected. If I end up tying in the main power feeds, I assume I can simply not install a fuse in the panel since they already have one, or is it OK to have two inline fuses on a circuit? Appreciate all the input!

[VAHokie]

i am curious as to what the issue is with the 25th Anniversary wheels that makes them so hard to mount tires on. Those are the wheels I am planning on ordering as I LOVE the look of them. I was also planning on going with the PS2's in the 315 and 265 sizes. I would like to know if any of the tire shops elaborated on what makes those wheels so difficult.

Also, did you have to purchase the ffmetal Fat F-Panel?

They do look good and even better on the car, part of the reason I was so adamant about getting tires on them! You should be fine with the PS2s as I was able to successfully install them and others have too. What was happening is the tire would actually try to fold over on itself when being pushed down to the bead due to the thickness of the barrel. The installers were saying the barrel is just slightly oversized which makes it hard for the tire to get down to the bead. I spoke to FFR and they've had no issues getting the tires on, and even offered installing them for me if I sent everything to them (very nice of them but not a cost I was looking to incur!). I think they exclusively use certain tires (MTs?) so not sure how much experience they have with others. Toadster was able to get his Yokohama Advans installed (https://cobradreams.com/2020/02/07/tires-meet-wheels/) on his wheels, but it just wasn't happening with mine. I believe I have one of their earlier sets (received in Feb) so maybe it's something with the run. Who knows. I didn't go with the Fat F-Panels as I wasn't originally planning on 265 tires up front. However, I spoke to Delta0014 to see what his experience has been with his PS2 265s and he hasn't experienced any rubbing or other issues, and he's running the provided F panel. So it'll be something I monitor and may have to install rack limiters down the road.

[edwardb]

Thanks for weighing in, Paul. My accessories include the CobraHeat seat heaters, USB port and Aeromotive Fuel Pump Wiring Kit (https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/premium-fuel-pump-wiring-kit/). I may run the main power feeds there as well to clean up the engine bay and reduce the number of items pulling from the starter. I'm not committed to the bus bar, although hate not using a brand new part. I'm most concerned it's wired in the most safe and logical manner. Sounds like swapping it out for a fused panel as Craig suggested would work. That would allow all the existing non-fused circuits (seat heaters, USB) to be protected. If I end up tying in the main power feeds, I assume I can simply not install a fuse in the panel since they already have one, or is it OK to have two inline fuses on a circuit? Appreciate all the input!

Right. If you tie the main power feeds there, as I mentioned before, no additional protection required since that's all in the RF panel. For the couple additions you're making, what I've personally done is use resettable circuit breakers. Come in various configurations and power ratings to match your circuit. Available lots of places but my go-to is DelCity. https://www.delcity.net/store/12V-Auto-Reset-Circuit-Breakers/p_198669.h_198846. They also have covers/boots to go over the terminals. Adding a 2-3 of those would be way easier than adding an entire new fuse panel if that's all you need. Your USB port doesn't pull much power. Personally I'd look for an unused (or underused) circuit in your RF panel. You can see the two circuit breakers I put in #8674 in this pic.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Electrical/.highres/IMG_4117_zpsniunnqsn.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/91d1b235-3b11-4308-85a4-055dadcc1f9e/p/b8a0a9b7-f529-45bc-ba24-76f7b3e4769c)

[jiriza84641]

VA Hokie, I see you are running the power wires to the battery already, I am in the same process as you in respect to the wiring, I have already deleted or trimmed down some of the RF harness harness. Question is as for the main cable from battery to the battery disconnect are you using a 4AWG? I see that EdwardB upgraded his to a 2AWG, maybe that is because the PDB fuse is a 250A. Edwardb can probably chime in. I talked to Ford performance, and it was indicated that a 4AWG is all that is needed.

Thanks

[edwardb]

VA Hokie, I see you are running the power wires to the battery already, I am in the same process as you in respect to the wiring, I have already deleted or trimmed down some of the RF harness harness. Question is as for the main cable from battery to the battery disconnect are you using a 4AWG? I see that EdwardB upgraded his to a 2AWG, maybe that is because the PDB fuse is a 250A. Edwardb can probably chime in. I talked to Ford performance, and it was indicated that a 4AWG is all that is needed.

Thanks

Agree that 4 gauge is plenty for the Coyote. For my recent builds I've upgraded the battery cables to 2 gauge, and the way it's wired powers both the starter and the Coyote PDB. Plus the RF panel of course. Lots of forum bandwidth about guys have start problems with the 4 gauge leads and switching to 2 gauge (or even some went to 0 gauge) solved the problem.

[VAHokie]

VA Hokie, I see you are running the power wires to the battery already, I am in the same process as you in respect to the wiring, I have already deleted or trimmed down some of the RF harness harness. Question is as for the main cable from battery to the battery disconnect are you using a 4AWG? I see that EdwardB upgraded his to a 2AWG, maybe that is because the PDB fuse is a 250A. Edwardb can probably chime in. I talked to Ford performance, and it was indicated that a 4AWG is all that is needed.

Thanks

Yep, I used the kit-supplied 4AWG wire for my runs from the battery to the cut-off switch and then back to the starter solenoid and bus bar behind the dash. Hoping that'll be sufficient for my needs but easy enough to upgrade later should I find it to be an issue.

[VAHokie]

Right. If you tie the main power feeds there, as I mentioned before, no additional protection required since that's all in the RF panel. For the couple additions you're making, what I've personally done is use resettable circuit breakers. Come in various configurations and power ratings to match your circuit. Available lots of places but my go-to is DelCity. https://www.delcity.net/store/12V-Auto-Reset-Circuit-Breakers/p_198669.h_198846. They also have covers/boots to go over the terminals. Adding a 2-3 of those would be way easier than adding an entire new fuse panel if that's all you need. Your USB port doesn't pull much power. Personally I'd look for an unused (or underused) circuit in your RF panel. You can see the two circuit breakers I put in #8674 in this pic.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Electrical/.highres/IMG_4117_zpsniunnqsn.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/91d1b235-3b11-4308-85a4-055dadcc1f9e/p/b8a0a9b7-f529-45bc-ba24-76f7b3e4769c)

Thanks, Paul. Appreciate the additional information. I like the idea of adding a few circuit breakers, so I think where I'm settling is keeping the 4AWG running power into the bus bar and inserting the breakers in the appropriate circuits to support the seat heaters and USB (or possibly repurposing an existing circuit) as suggested.

[jiriza84641]

VA, your build is coming out great, we have different motors and I don't want any issues and scored 6.5 ft of red 2g power cable and 2.5 feet of black 2g negative cable with post attachments for $30 and interstate battery.

keep trucking along

[VAHokie]

Reached a big milestone over the weekend in dropping the drivetrain into the car. Big thanks to CaddyDad and Scottiec for taking time out of their holiday weekend and lending a helping hand. Having two builders who have already installed drivetrains in these cars was a great peace of mind for me. The engine and trans did NOT come mated together, so that was the first order of business. Although the bellhousing comes mated to the engine and has all the appropriate alignments taken care of, the builder recommended confirming the hydraulic throwout bearing still has the appropriate clearance (.100 - .150) to the clutch fingers once installed. After a couple of measurements and a quick calculation, confirmed everything was A-OK and noted the correct position to clock the bearing once installed. For the engine install, I had originally planned on using an engine lift plate affixed to the intake. Although many people have pulled/placed countless engines this way, Edelbrock does not recommend doing it in this manner (I have a performer rpm air gap intake) and opted for bolts in the DS front and PS rear cylinder heads. Everything went in well, just needed to take our time walking the engine into position. The only outstanding item I have with the install is the forward side of the DS engine mount isn't sitting flat against the frame mount like it is on the PS. A bunch of repositioning and we couldn't get it to sit cleanly in there. I haven't torqued the bolts down yet and that possibly could pull everything together, but certainly welcome any thoughts from others.

Here's the calm before the storm: lift, engine and trans.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134842&d=1599604189

Engine easing into the engine bay. One man at the controls, another on the side watching clearances and the third guiding the trans through the tunnel.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134841&d=1599604177

And finally in her home! You'll notice the DS inner footbox panels aren't in place. I confirmed in advance of the engine install that i'll be able to get them in after the fact. I intentionally left these panels out to make drilling holes for the mechanical throttle linkage and hydraulic clutch line easier.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134840&d=1599604168

Here's a pic of the DS engine mount. You can see here the slight gap where it's not seated flush to the frame mount.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134839&d=1599604160

[GTBradley]

Big milestone! I remember getting pretty excited and nervous at this point about the upcoming first start. Good work!

[JohnK]

Congratulations!!!! Huge milestone. First start can't be far away now! :cool:

[BadAsp427]

Congratulations, that’s always feel so good once you get it in there. Don’t worry about the gap that’s going to close up as soon as you torque down the mount bolts/nuts

[VAHokie]

Big milestone! I remember getting pretty excited and nervous at this point about the upcoming first start. Good work!


Congratulations!!!! Huge milestone. First start can't be far away now! :cool:

Thanks, Bradley and John. It's not too far off. I need to tie up some loose ends now that the engine is in, not the least of which is the wiring! :)


Congratulations, that’s always feel so good once you get it in there. Don’t worry about the gap that’s going to close up as soon as you talk down the mount bolts/nuts

Thanks, Carl. Appreciate the note on the engine mount bolts closing up the gap.

[egchewy79]

Reached a big milestone over the weekend in dropping the drivetrain into the car. Big thanks to CaddyDad and Scottiec for taking time out of their holiday weekend and lending a helping hand. Having two builders who have already installed drivetrains in these cars was a great peace of mind for me. The engine and trans did NOT come mated together, so that was the first order of business. Although the bellhousing comes mated to the engine and has all the appropriate alignments taken care of, the builder recommended confirming the hydraulic throwout bearing still has the appropriate clearance (.100 - .150) to the clutch fingers once installed. After a couple of measurements and a quick calculation, confirmed everything was A-OK and noted the correct position to clock the bearing once installed. For the engine install, I had originally planned on using an engine lift plate affixed to the intake. Although many people have pulled/placed countless engines this way, Edelbrock does not recommend doing it in this manner (I have a performer rpm air gap intake) and opted for bolts in the DS front and PS rear cylinder heads. Everything went in well, just needed to take our time walking the engine into position. The only outstanding item I have with the install is the forward side of the DS engine mount isn't sitting flat against the frame mount like it is on the PS. A bunch of repositioning and we couldn't get it to sit cleanly in there. I haven't torqued the bolts down yet and that possibly could pull everything together, but certainly welcome any thoughts from others.

Here's the calm before the storm: lift, engine and trans.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134842&d=1599604189

Engine easing into the engine bay. One man at the controls, another on the side watching clearances and the third guiding the trans through the tunnel.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134841&d=1599604177

And finally in her home! You'll notice the DS inner footbox panels aren't in place. I confirmed in advance of the engine install that i'll be able to get them in after the fact. I intentionally left these panels out to make drilling holes for the mechanical throttle linkage and hydraulic clutch line easier.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134840&d=1599604168

Here's a pic of the DS engine mount. You can see here the slight gap where it's not seated flush to the frame mount.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134839&d=1599604160

I had a similar gap, but much larger. try putting a jack under the PS of the oil pan and lifting slightly while lifting up on the block with your engine crane. This was all I needed to get the engine to settle in a bit and get the engine to rotate slightly to get both mounts flush.

[jrcuz]

WOW Tony, looks great. Sounds like the builder took care of checking the bellhousing alignment. That is something you won't have to worry about. I'm chomping at the bit with this social distancing keeping me from removing the body for final fitting and other things.
JR

[RJD]

Awesome! Congratulations.

[JB in NOVA]

Great job! Congrats! I hope to be doing the same later this month. I look forward to your first start.

[VAHokie]

WOW Tony, looks great. Sounds like the builder took care of checking the bellhousing alignment. That is something you won't have to worry about. I'm chomping at the bit with this social distancing keeping me from removing the body for final fitting and other things.
JR

Not having to index the bell housing was key! Hang in there and hopefully you’ll be able to check those last couple of boxes soon.


Great job! Congrats! I hope to be doing the same later this month. I look forward to your first start.

Thanks, JB. I’ve enjoyed catching up on your build. Making great progress. FWIW, found another powder coater that would do panels for a 1/3 of NV Coatings. Ended up using them for my cockpit and rear panels.

[phileas_fogg]

Congratulations!

One thing to consider about your motor mount issue. If you use the bolts to close the gap, you're stuck with whatever position your engine chooses. When you put on the headers & side pipes, you may find that you need wedges or 1/4" extensions to make the pipes parallel to the body.

An alternative is to lift the engine slightly with the hoist and grind the offending slot on the motor mount 1/8" or so. That will give you some wiggle room & maybe save you some fitment headache down the line. This also allows you to rock the motor slightly to get the ends of the headers closer to equal height off the ground, if needed.


John

[VAHokie]

Worked continued on the engine positioning this past weekend to help close some of the gaps between the engine and frame mounts. I was able to make some slight improvements, but not flush 100% between the two mounting faces. I finally settled on the angle for either the engine mount or frame mount needing to be adjusted for them to be 100% flush and they're both pretty darn close and almost identical on both the DS and PS. I emailed the following pics to FFR Tech for a second opinion and they confirmed it looks good based on what they could tell from the pics. I haven't bolted anything done yet as I still need to install the trans mount and driveshaft, safety hoop and set the right angle.

Here are shots of the DS from the front (left) and rear (right). You can see the ~1/8" gap from the front but the rear looks perfectly flush.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135094&d=1600219097 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135095&d=1600219108

For comparison, here are two pics of the PS, both from the front (couldn't get a clear shot from the rear).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135096&d=1600219119 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135097&d=1600219126

[VAHokie]

With the midshift kit it requires cutting one of the trans tunnel horizontal braces to allow for the appropriate clearance. In speaking with FFR, I'd be perfectly fine cutting the brace and leaving it as-is, but I chose to reinforce it with a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of angle iron. As you'll see in the pics, I need to clearance a little more on the DS of the brace to ensure there's no interference with the trans.

Here's a couple of pics of the fabricated brace and it mocked up in place. I'll be securing it to the existing horizontal tube with grade 8, 1/4" x 20 bolts and lock nuts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135103&d=1600219191

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135104&d=1600219197

[VAHokie]

With the engine effectively in its final position I had all the final points and measurements to finalize my fuel lines. There are a number of different ways to cut the nylon race hose and assemble the AN fittings, all of which will give you a reliable finished product. With this being my first time building fuel lines and given their relative importance to the car and overall safety, I opted to purchase all the necessary tools to ease the process which included: hose cutters, soft vise grips, 6AN wrench and a pressure testing kit. You'll see below all the tools used and two of the shorter runs that I created.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135098&d=1600219136

To pressure test the hoses, I used the pressure test kit in the above picture, my trusty bike pump and a bucket of water. Placed the caps on either end of the hose fittings, pressurized the line and dropped it into the water. I'm running a carb so I'll only have 7-9 PSI max, but I tested them all over 30 PSI to be safe. Only one of my smaller fittings was spewing bubbles and eventually had to redo it, but all four runs of hose are now good to go and will be going on the car soon.

Here you an see one of the shorter runs with hooked up to the pump and with a slight bit of pressure in it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135099&d=1600219154

Here's a pic of a pressurized hose with the ends sitting in the bucket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135100&d=1600219164

Here's a pic of the leak in the one run of hose that I needed to redo.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135101&d=1600219172

[460.465USMC]

With the midshift kit it requires cutting one of the trans tunnel horizontal braces to allow for the appropriate clearance. In speaking with FFR, I'd be perfectly fine cutting the brace and leaving it as-is, but I chose to reinforce it with a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of angle iron. As you'll see in the pics, I need to clearance a little more on the DS of the brace to ensure there's no interference with the trans.

Here's a couple of pics of the fabricated brace and it mocked up in place. I'll be securing it to the existing horizontal tube with grade 8, 1/4" x 20 bolts and lock nuts.

Thanks for posting this! If I go with the mid-shift option, I will follow your lead with the angle iron reinforcement as you show above. Most likely I will go with rotating the rear shift location 180 deg., coupled with the dogleg from Forte to achieve about a very similar shifting position--got that idea from Wareaglescott's build (post #140). Really appreciate the picture and description! Still enjoying/following your build. Looking great!

Chris

[jrcuz]

Fine job Tony, your hose cutters look like what I used to do my braided stainless p/s lines.
JR

[VAHokie]

Before wrapping up the drivetrain install, I needed to install the driveshaft and safety hoop, set the appropriate ride height and confirm the correct pinion angle. Despite what the instructions in the manual say, I wasn't able to get the right angle on the trans tailhousing to allow the driveshaft to slide in. I had to bring out the engine lift again to pick-up and move the engine/trans forward slightly to create enough space. In hindsight, I should have put the driveshaft in during the engine install to avoid having to do some rework. Hopefully other builders can benefit from my experience.

For the driveshaft safety hoop, I made sure I slipped that on before locking the driveshaft into place with the differential adapter. The instructions indicate it should go on without having to remove the driveshaft, but I wasn't going to take any chances. Easy enough to do before I buttoned it all up. After all was said and done, I have 11/16" gap between the driveshaft and the safety hoop without having to add any spacers, which appears to be sufficient clearance. If anyone disagrees, please speak up.

Here's looking back towards the diff and you can see the 11/16" gap.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135738&d=1601346658

I made a couple of adjustments during the install that I'll share in the hope that it might help someone. I found that the rear transmission A frame bolts interfered slightly with the safety hoop and didn't allow for it to sit perfectly parallel, which pushed the hoop down towards the driveshaft. I addressed this by flipping the bolts so that the bolt heads are on the bottom and the nuts are on the top.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135740&d=1601346685

I also added another set of bolts to hold the safety hoop mounting arm in place (two left bolts in photo below). Without that, the only thing holding it in place were the two bolts going into the bottom of the transmission mount, which I also upgraded to slightly longer bolts for more thread engagement.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135739&d=1601346677

I also swapped out the kit supplied bolts (3/4" length) used to affix the hoop to the arm with longer ones (1.25") for more thread engagement. I had them lying around so why not?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135737&d=1601346636

[VAHokie]

In order to confirm the correct pinion angle, I needed to first set the ride height for the car at 4" in the front and 4.5" in the rear. Once complete, I used the Tremec Driveline Angle Finder app to confirm I'm within the specified tolerances. It has you take the three necessary measurements:

1) Flat surface parallel or perpendicular to engine crankshaft or transmission output shaft. I took the reading off the face of the balancer.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135741&d=1601347769

2) Flat surface on the driveshaft. I took the reading off the only smooth part of the driveshaft, which was tricky to get a consistent reading.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135743&d=1601347792

3) Flat surface on the rear axle that is parallel or perpendicular to the pinion. I took the reading off the small flat lip here.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135742&d=1601347780

I took a couple of readings it came back within the required tolerances.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135746&d=1601348071

I couldn't leave well enough alone and proceeded to measure the tolerances one more time the next day and got different results. It was a mix bag of being within and outside the tolerances, but enough now that I'm questioning if it's good. Here's a side shot of the installed driveshaft with the hoop removed for better visibility. Would appreciate folks taking a look and letting me know what you think.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135745&d=1601347842

[phileas_fogg]

Looks good Tony.

For your safety loop, 11/16" clearance should be plenty with the IRS. The differential is locked down so the only movement in your drive train is the flex in the mounts, which is next to nothing.

For your drive shaft, what are you using to measure your angles? I never could get repeatable measurements using my phone, so I used a digital angle finder. If it were me, I'd try to get the vertical angles to ~1*...maybe put a 1/4" spacer under your transmission to lessen the angles? What do your horizontal angles look like? On my car, I got the vertical angles to be very close, and let the horizontal angles take care of the movement necessary for proper lubrication in the drive shaft U joints.


John

[VAHokie]

For your drive shaft, what are you using to measure your angles? I never could get repeatable measurements using my phone, so I used a digital angle finder. If it were me, I'd try to get the vertical angles to ~1*...maybe put a 1/4" spacer under your transmission to lessen the angles? What do your horizontal angles look like? On my car, I got the vertical angles to be very close, and let the horizontal angles take care of the movement necessary for proper lubrication in the drive shaft U joints.

Thanks, John. I'm using the Tremec Angle Finder app and am finding the same issues you and it sounds like others experienced too. I have a digital angle finder arriving tomorrow and will use that to take the specific angle measurements and do the calculations. With the diff locked down as you noted, all I can play with is the position of the trans. I currently have three of the Forte spacers installed for a total of 3/4" in lift, but I made need to add some washers between them to raise the angle up a bit. We'll see where I net out after taking measurements with the digital angle finder.

[VAHokie]

Quick update on setting the pinion and operating angles. Picked up a digital angle finder to ensure accurate readings and dial everything appropriately. Based on input from FFR, online research and folks here on the forum, I'm shooting for 1-2 degrees of pinion angle and operating angles between 1-3 degrees (although some recommendations have a slightly wider range of 0.5-3 degrees). With the IRS differential fixed, I'm committed to the +0.3 pinion angle it has, which left only the engine and trans for adjustments. The engine really isn't going anywhere unless I change out the mounts, which there are kits that will lower the engine in the frame. This is certainly an option and one I put on hold in the hope that I could achieve the correct angles by adjusting the transmission tail shaft at the mount. Countless others are running SBFs in MKIVs with IRS without issue, so it should be attainable.

I have three of the Forte transmission spacers, which IMO is necessary to get the transmission even in the ballpark. From there I played around with a bunch of different washer combinations to raise the transmission up. I eventually settled on the following measurements and will see how it goes one I'm go-karting.

Transmission Angle: -1.3 (Measured from the face of the crank pulley)
Driveshaft Angle: +0.7 (Measured from the top of the driveshaft yoke; The ideal reading here would have been -2.3, but increasing the tail shaft to achieve that measurement impacted the transmission angle by decreasing the angle, which would then place my pinion angle out of spec)
Differential Angle: +0.3 (Measured from atop the differential 'neck')

So this puts my pinion angle and front operating angles within spec and the rear operating angle out of spec by 0.1.

Pinion Angle: +1.0
Front Operating Angle: -2
Rear Operating Angle: +0.4

[VAHokie]

Working on wiring up the dash and have a few questions with the Autometer Ultralite gauges:

For all of the smaller gauges (fuel, oil temp and press, water temp) the instructions have you cut the ground wire from the sending unit connectors and twist them together with the ground wire for the gauge. All of the smaller gauges have a sending unit connector with a feed and ground. The volt wiring in the RF diagram just has you running the brown gauge feed wire to it and no mention of what to do with the light ground wire. What am I supposed to do with this wire?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136247&d=1602502993

None of the provided switches appear to have the four prongs for the hazard switch depicted in the RF wiring diagram, but through process of elimination, I believe this is the DPDT ON-ON switch and have it wired correctly. Pink hazard flashers on the top two posts and the dark green LEFT FT TURN and light blue RIGHT FRT TURN on the bottom. I would have thought you needed the LEFT and RIGHT REAR TURN signals wired in here as well, but neither the RF diagram or instructions have you do that. Could someone take a look?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136244&d=1602502965

For both the speedo and tach, I believe I have them wired correctly, but would appreciate another set of eyes. This is the speedo with green being the signal wire, red the gauge feed wire, black ground and white dash lights. The RF wiring diagram shows a RED-SPEEDO/CLOCK MEMORY wire going to it, but there wasn't anything in the instructions about hooking it up. Do I need to this wire run to the gauge?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136245&d=1602502974

This is the tach with the purple being the coil tach wire, red the gauge feed wire, black ground and white dash lights.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136246&d=1602502985

I have the RT turn signal system and won't be using the dash mounted toggle switch for the turn signals. I am considering using it for a fan switch so I can turn off/on the cooling fan. Would this impact the thermostat controlled on/off cycling?

[edwardb]

None of the provided switches appear to have the four prongs for the hazard switch depicted in the RF wiring diagram, but through process of elimination, I believe this is the DPDT ON-ON switch and have it wired correctly. Pink hazard flashers on the top two posts and the dark green LEFT FT TURN and light blue RIGHT FRT TURN on the bottom. I would have thought you needed the LEFT and RIGHT REAR TURN signals wired in here as well, but neither the RF diagram or instructions have you do that. Could someone take a look?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136244&d=1602502965

I have the RT turn signal system and won't be using the dash mounted toggle switch for the turn signals. I am considering using it for a fan switch so I can turn off/on the cooling fan. Would this impact the thermostat controlled on/off cycling?

Can't help you with the Autometer gauges. No experience with them so will leave that to those who do. But for these two points:

Not sure that's the right switch. Does it have two positions or three? If the toggle has a center position and can be switched either way, that's the turn signal switch. If the toggle has only two positions, that's the hazard switch. But you have it wired wrong. You need two wires on the center post. And two on either end. It will work the same either way, just changes which toggle direction closes the circuit. A VOM or continuity checker is your friend for questions like this. Regarding the single wires -- if you have it wired exactly like the Ron Francis diagram shows, those single wires should be coming from the turn signal switch where both front and back wires (and the indicator) are connected. So powering the hazards will power all four corners.

Yes, you could use the turn signal switch but wouldn't be the best choice IMO. The turn signal switch has a center position and can be switched either way as noted above. For a fan override switch, you only need a single pole single throw switch. There are two dark green fan thermo wires in your harness. Once in the front harness and one in the gauge sender harness. Connecting either to ground energizes the fan relay and turns on the cooler fan. You can route one to your thermostat and the other to your dash switch. The thermostat will close at its preset temp and turn on the fan. Or you can override with the dash switch. As long as the dash switch is closed, the thermostat temp isn't used. I've wired mine that way a couple times, but lately have left off the dash switch. Haven't regretted it.

[VAHokie]

Not sure that's the right switch. Does it have two positions or three? If the toggle has a center position and can be switched either way, that's the turn signal switch. If the toggle has only two positions, that's the hazard switch. But you have it wired wrong. You need two wires on the center post. And two on either end. It will work the same either way, just changes which toggle direction closes the circuit. A VOM or continuity checker is your friend for questions like this. Regarding the single wires -- if you have it wired exactly like the Ron Francis diagram shows, those single wires should be coming from the turn signal switch where both front and back wires (and the indicator) are connected. So powering the hazards will power all four corners.

Thanks, Paul. The toggle only has two positions so I have the right one. I made the wiring placement changes as you've suggested.


Yes, you could use the turn signal switch but wouldn't be the best choice IMO. The turn signal switch has a center position and can be switched either way as noted above. For a fan override switch, you only need a single pole single throw switch. There are two dark green fan thermo wires in your harness. Once in the front harness and one in the gauge sender harness. Connecting either to ground energizes the fan relay and turns on the cooler fan. You can route one to your thermostat and the other to your dash switch. The thermostat will close at its preset temp and turn on the fan. Or you can override with the dash switch. As long as the dash switch is closed, the thermostat temp isn't used. I've wired mine that way a couple times, but lately have left off the dash switch. Haven't regretted it.

Appreciate the info on this and will route it as recommended. I have an extra single pole switch that I can use here.

[TMartinLVNV]

Working on wiring up the dash and have a few questions with the Autometer Ultralite gauges:

For all of the smaller gauges (fuel, oil temp and press, water temp) the instructions have you cut the ground wire from the sending unit connectors and twist them together with the ground wire for the gauge. All of the smaller gauges have a sending unit connector with a feed and ground. The volt wiring in the RF diagram just has you running the brown gauge feed wire to it and no mention of what to do with the light ground wire. What am I supposed to do with this wire?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136247&d=1602502993

None of the provided switches appear to have the four prongs for the hazard switch depicted in the RF wiring diagram, but through process of elimination, I believe this is the DPDT ON-ON switch and have it wired correctly. Pink hazard flashers on the top two posts and the dark green LEFT FT TURN and light blue RIGHT FRT TURN on the bottom. I would have thought you needed the LEFT and RIGHT REAR TURN signals wired in here as well, but neither the RF diagram or instructions have you do that. Could someone take a look?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136244&d=1602502965

For both the speedo and tach, I believe I have them wired correctly, but would appreciate another set of eyes. This is the speedo with green being the signal wire, red the gauge feed wire, black ground and white dash lights. The RF wiring diagram shows a RED-SPEEDO/CLOCK MEMORY wire going to it, but there wasn't anything in the instructions about hooking it up. Do I need to this wire run to the gauge?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136245&d=1602502974

This is the tach with the purple being the coil tach wire, red the gauge feed wire, black ground and white dash lights.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136246&d=1602502985

I have the RT turn signal system and won't be using the dash mounted toggle switch for the turn signals. I am considering using it for a fan switch so I can turn off/on the cooling fan. Would this impact the thermostat controlled on/off cycling?

This may answer some of your Auto Meter questions. 3500 miles and my car has not burned to the ground yet :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33080-Terry-in-Las-Vegas-Build-Another-Road-Trip&p=383523&viewfull=1#post383523

[VAHokie]

This may answer some of your Auto Meter questions. 3500 miles and my car has not burned to the ground yet :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33080-Terry-in-Las-Vegas-Build-Another-Road-Trip&p=383523&viewfull=1#post383523

Thanks, Terry. Appreciate the heads-up on that and i'll be swapping the wire locations per your thread. I have a couple of other Autometer specific questions that i'll shoot your way via PM.

Tony

[VAHokie]

Continued with the engine bay wiring tonight and planned to start with installing the thermostat switch sensor, water temp sensor, and oil pressure/temp sensors so I could dial in the wire runs and exact lengths. Unfortunately, the thermostat switch sensor was cracked in two places right out of the box, so quick online order and another is on the way for install this weekend. I did a thorough inventory and inspection of all parts when the kit arrived, but missed this one because the cracked sides were facing against the interior of the packaging.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136338&d=1602730616

Quick newbie question for those more experience builders: Does the oil temperature sensor (below) appear to be seated far enough in, both for the base going into the bung and the sensor into the base? I tightened them down as far as I felt comfortable so as not to break one off, which leaves a thread or two exposed. The other sensors are seated about this far in as well. They're all sealed with Permatex high temperature thread sealant.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136343&d=1602730671

I ended up taking apart all the engine bay wiring harnesses to minimize and customize the runs to ensure a clean presentation. With the Alternator, electric choke, temp sensors and MSD distributor wires all laid out and run to their respective corners of the engine, I was left with one black ground wire that pig tails out into three separate ground wires for the water temp, oil temp and oil pressure. Do I just find a location on the frame and ground all three wires to it? The sensors have a single ring terminal connection on the end of them, so I don't see how they would terminate on the actual sensor. Here's a pic of the wires laid out over the engine to their respective areas: Alternator/thermo sensor/elec. choke to the PS, three ground wires down the middle, and water/oil temp and oil pressure to the DS. Once everything is finalized, I'll wrap everything in high temp wiring loom and tuck them under my air gap intake.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136340&d=1602730624

One more wiring question: I'm running a carb and don't believe I need any of the wires in the EFI/Coil section of wires; however, there are two that I'm scratching my head on: the ORG-EFI OR COIL and PURP-COIL-TACH. I have a MSD ignition that connects directly to my coil, so I don't believe I need the ORG-EFI or COIL wire, but what about the PURP-COIL-TACH?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136341&d=1602730636

[Fman]

With the engine effectively in its final position I had all the final points and measurements to finalize my fuel lines. There are a number of different ways to cut the nylon race hose and assemble the AN fittings, all of which will give you a reliable finished product. With this being my first time building fuel lines and given their relative importance to the car and overall safety, I opted to purchase all the necessary tools to ease the process which included: hose cutters, soft vise grips, 6AN wrench and a pressure testing kit. You'll see below all the tools used and two of the shorter runs that I created.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135098&d=1600219136

To pressure test the hoses, I used the pressure test kit in the above picture, my trusty bike pump and a bucket of water. Placed the caps on either end of the hose fittings, pressurized the line and dropped it into the water. I'm running a carb so I'll only have 7-9 PSI max, but I tested them all over 30 PSI to be safe. Only one of my smaller fittings was spewing bubbles and eventually had to redo it, but all four runs of hose are now good to go and will be going on the car soon.

Here you an see one of the shorter runs with hooked up to the pump and with a slight bit of pressure in it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135099&d=1600219154

Here's a pic of a pressurized hose with the ends sitting in the bucket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135100&d=1600219164

Here's a pic of the leak in the one run of hose that I needed to redo.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135101&d=1600219172

Your build is looking great! you are getting very close to your first start!

One tip I was passed along about -AN fittings is to use a little lube on the threads when assembling. I am using 3/8" Fragola PTFE lines/alum fittings. I noticed the first line I put together it was very difficult to thread on and tighten down. I did not feel like it was on good enough, backed it out and the threads had stripped out ruining the "reusable" fitting. After using a bottle of engine lube on the threads all the rest of the fittings went on much better. The local speed shop recommended this to me. I still have not leak tested my system so I cant confirm this actually worked but it definitely helped for assembly.

[TMartinLVNV]

"Quick newbie question for those more experience builders: Does the oil temperature sensor (below) appear to be seated far enough in, both for the base going into the bung and the sensor into the base? I tightened them down as far as I felt comfortable so as not to break one off, which leaves a thread or two exposed. The other sensors are seated about this far in as well. They're all sealed with Permatex high temperature thread sealant."

These are NPT threads. They won't thread in all of the way. Nice and snug is what you need.

If you are using the MSD box, it may be providing its own tach signal wire for you to use. I didn't go this route, so I'm not sure.

[edwardb]

...One more wiring question: I'm running a carb and don't believe I need any of the wires in the EFI/Coil section of wires; however, there are two that I'm scratching my head on: the ORG-EFI OR COIL and PURP-COIL-TACH. I have a MSD ignition that connects directly to my coil, so I don't believe I need the ORG-EFI or COIL wire, but what about the PURP-COIL-TACH?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136341&d=1602730636

With a carb you typically don't need the EFI/Coil wire. That's a nice dedicated 15 amp ignition controlled circuit if you need anything else powered.

The purple tach wire is intended to go from whatever tach connection you have in the engine compartment (coil, MSD box, whatever) and the tach on the dash to provide the signal. The other end is in your dash harness. Some use the gauge provided harness, so don't use it.

[VAHokie]

Your build is looking great! you are getting very close to your first start!

One tip I was passed along about -AN fittings is to use a little lube on the threads when assembling. I am using 3/8" Fragola PTFE lines/alum fittings. I noticed the first line I put together it was very difficult to thread on and tighten down. I did not feel like it was on good enough, backed it out and the threads had stripped out ruining the "reusable" fitting. After using a bottle of engine lube on the threads all the rest of the fittings went on much better. The local speed shop recommended this to me. I still have not leak tested my system so I cant confirm this actually worked but it definitely helped for assembly.

Thanks, Fman. I used Earl's Assembly Lube on both the male and female threads of the fittings, as well as a lite coating on the inside of the hose tubing.

[VAHokie]

If you are using the MSD box, it may be providing its own tach signal wire for you to use.


The purple tach wire is intended to go from whatever tach connection you have in the engine compartment (coil, MSD box, whatever) and the tach on the dash to provide the signal. The other end is in your dash harness. Some use the gauge provided harness, so don't use it.

Thanks, Terry and Paul. Based on my MSD wiring diagram, it sounds like I should connect the purple tach wire to the gray tach output wire which they say should connect to the tachometer trigger wire or other rpm activated device. Also, the red wire at the top I have going to the ignition switch - does that sound right?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136414&d=1602851499

[edwardb]

Thanks, Terry and Paul. Based on my MSD wiring diagram, it sounds like I should connect the purple tach wire to the gray tach output wire which they say should connect to the tachometer trigger wire or other rpm activated device. Also, the red wire at the top I have going to the ignition switch - does that sound right?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136414&d=1602851499

Yes. Attach the RF purple tach wire to the MSD wire and the other end in your dash harness to the tach input. For the MSD red wire, the EFI/Coil wire you asked about previously is a perfect candidate to attach there. It's an ignition controlled +12V source. Exactly what you want. (Coyote is wired the same way usually with the same wire FWIW.)

[VAHokie]

Looking to clean up the unnecessary wires from behind the dash and curious what everyone is doing with the Hot Rod branch other than just leave it as-is and tie it up in the footbox? Would cutting it an inch or so from the main stem, folding each wire over on its self and sealing each of them up with electrical tape work be OK?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136439&d=1602907789

[edwardb]

Looking to clean up the unnecessary wires from behind the dash and curious what everyone is doing with the Hot Rod branch other than just leave it as-is and tie it up in the footbox? Would cutting it an inch or so from the main stem, folding each wire over on its self and sealing each of them up with electrical tape work be OK?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136439&d=1602907789

Yes, many of us cut off the Hot Rod branch when the build isn't using the Lokar steering column it's intended for. Like on the Hot Rod, Truck, etc. Short of opening the harness and cutting the wires more back at their source, cutting them off outside the harness is OK too. But keep in mind these are live wires, e.g. "Y" connections off the turn signals, hazards, etc. I'd suggest two things. Cut them at unequal lengths so the ends can't get near each other. Use heat shrink tubing over the ends. Ideally the double wall variety that is adhesive lined. That's what I use on all my wiring. It's good stuff. Versus electrical tape which I'm not a fan of. I only use it if nothing else is possible. An aside comment, I'm assuming you'll be adjusting and tying down that harness leg so it's not touching or dragging on the steering column.

[VAHokie]

I'd suggest two things. Cut them at unequal lengths so the ends can't get near each other. Use heat shrink tubing over the ends. Ideally the double wall variety that is adhesive lined. That's what I use on all my wiring. It's good stuff. Versus electrical tape which I'm not a fan of. I only use it if nothing else is possible. An aside comment, I'm assuming you'll be adjusting and tying down that harness leg so it's not touching or dragging on the steering column.

Thanks, Paul. I followed your advice and cut the wires back at unequal lengths close to the connector. I then folded them back over on themselves, affixed to itself with electrical tape and then put double walled, adhesive lined heat tubing over it. On the steering column interference, I have a piece of aluminum that creates a bridge over column to keep the wiring leg off of it.



Yes. Attach the RF purple tach wire to the MSD wire and the other end in your dash harness to the tach input. For the MSD red wire, the EFI/Coil wire you asked about previously is a perfect candidate to attach there. It's an ignition controlled +12V source. Exactly what you want. (Coyote is wired the same way usually with the same wire FWIW.
The MSD red wire and the EFI/COIL wire are different sizes, is there any concern splicing these together? I believe most of which dictates if this is possible is the amperes going through the wires, and with the MSD having the smaller of the two wires, it's sized for the needs of the ignition box. So having the EFI/COIL wire larger shouldn't be an issue because the amperes going through it will be dictated by the MSD needs. Does that sound right?

[edwardb]

The MSD red wire and the EFI/COIL wire are different sizes, is there any concern splicing these together? I believe most of which dictates if this is possible is the amperes going through the wires, and with the MSD having the smaller of the two wires, it's sized for the needs of the ignition box. So having the EFI/COIL wire larger shouldn't be an issue because the amperes going through it will be dictated by the MSD needs. Does that sound right?

Your logic is correct. Hooking the smaller wire to a larger wire likely isn't going to overload the circuit. However, as I recall (always dangerous...) the EFI/COIL circuit is 15 amps. So it would be possible for the smaller wire to be overloaded and not blow the fuse. To be super cautious, you could replaced the 15 amp fuse with a smaller one. Like 10 or even lower. But having said that, based on the MSD diagram, I doubt there's any serious current through that wire. You have a large battery wire which is powering the unit. I suspect the smaller wire in question here is just a signal. +12V from the switched ignition circuit telling the unit to power up and start doing it's thing. So very low current draw and very low risk.

[VAHokie]

Fuel Tank Vent
I just about have my wiring wrapped up minus a few of the ancillary items, e.g. seat heaters, auxillary power, wipers, but nothing that would prevent me from getting the engine started, which I'm shooting for in the next week or so. Next up on the list was to complete the fuel tank vent. Not wanting perfectly good parts to go to waste, I used the kit-provided brake reservoir for my fuel tank vent filter. Drilled a number of holes in the cap, scuffed it and the brace up with sand paper and hit it with some flat black paint and clear. I ended up placing it just behind the gas tank filler tube on the PS trunk exterior panel.

Here is the container and brace ready for install.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137063&d=1604328234

Installed on the car. I still need to fill the container with the aquarium charcoal and filters. For the filter, what are folks using?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137064&d=1604328246

[phileas_fogg]

I used a piece of red scotch brite for the filter, cut to the size of the cap.


John

[egchewy79]

Fuel Tank Vent
I just about have my wiring wrapped up minus a few of the ancillary items, e.g. seat heaters, auxillary power, wipers, but nothing that would prevent me from getting the engine started, which I
m shooting for in the next week or so. Next up on the list was to complete the fuel tank vent. Not wanting perfectly good parts go to waste, I used the kit-provided brake reservoir for my fuel tank vent filter. Drilled a number of holes in the cap, scuffed it and the brace up with sand paper and hit it with some flat black paint and clear. I ended up placing it just behind the gas tank filler tube on the PS trunk exterior panel.

Here is the container and brace ready for install.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137063&d=1604328234

Installed on the car. I still need to fill the container with the aquarium charcoal and filters. For the filter, what are folks using?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137064&d=1604328246

I made the same thing with my brake fluid reservior.
the aquarium shop i went to had these little mesh bags that I filled with charcoal. Think of a small satchel made of cheese cloth or the like.
I do like the scotch brite pad filter idea as well.

[VAHokie]

Cooling System
Sounds like the jury is out on whether the kit-provided overflow tank works--seems some have no issues and others swap it out for something else. I plan to use it initially and reevaluate if it doesn't work. Like the fuel tank vent canister, I'll scuff this up and apply a black gloss and clear before final installation. Two questions:

For the fitting on the bottom that has the tube that goes up into the canister, I could only screw it in about half way. Is this what everyone else is experiencing when installing that fitting/tube? The other fitting screwed in just fine and almost bottoms out. I was careful to ensure I was screwing them in the right hole and thought I had it right.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137065&d=1604328278

For placement in the engine bay, I know I have to account for the hood hinges and being below the 3/4" tube to avoid clearance issues with the hood/body. I plan to create a small sheet metal brace that I affix the canister too. Does this location look alright--any potential issues? You'll see the outline of where the canister will go on the left of the plate.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137066&d=1604328289

[Papa]

The canister you have looks a bit different than what my kit came with, but you can see where I mounted mine to the F-Panel in this picture:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84669&d=1524442470

[phileas_fogg]

NPT fittings often leave threads exposed when they're tight. You can tell if it's NPT by looking for a slight taper; a straight edge held perpendicular to the threads should make the taper immediately obvious. Since the reservoir is off the car, it's easy enough to fill it with water at the kitchen sink & see if it leaks. The reservoir isn't pressurized, so this is a true test.


John

[VAHokie]

I made the same thing with my brake fluid reservior.
the aquarium shop i went to had these little mesh bags that I filled with charcoal. Think of a small satchel made of cheese cloth or the like.
I do like the scotch brite pad filter idea as well.

Thanks! Ended up going with aquarium activated carbon and the scotch brite pad. putting a small 2" diameter piece of the scotchbrite at the bottom of the filter and again at the top should keep all the carbon in place.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137418&d=1605101675

[VAHokie]

NPT fittings often leave threads exposed when they're tight. You can tell if it's NPT by looking for a slight taper; a straight edge held perpendicular to the threads should make the taper immediately obvious. Since the reservoir is off the car, it's easy enough to fill it with water at the kitchen sink & see if it leaks. The reservoir isn't pressurized, so this is a true test.


John

Thanks, John. Tested it for leaks as you suggested and as expected I was getting a few drips. I tried backing the fitting out but it was clear it wasn't going anywhere without some level of herculean force, which I attempted to do and ended up bending the fitting. That soft aluminum didn't stand a chance and I'm now convinced that the threads were galled. Quick search online and found a replacement overflow tank that was already painted black and with a larger capacity than the one in the kit - and for half the price! We'll see how this one goes and will make changes in the future.

[VAHokie]

Cooling System Complete
While working through the overflow tank changes noted above, I also spent time installing the Boig upper and lower cool tubes and the heater bypass hoses off the water pump. Since I'm not running a heater, I needed to cap one of the bypass tubes. My builder recommended taking a short length of pressure rated hose and capping it with a bolt. The alternative would have been to tap the tube for the bolt but that had zero appeal with the likelihood of shavings falling down into the water pump. So with a 5/8" ID length of hose, a 5/8" hex bolt (used my bench grinder to smooth out the threads to a smaller diameter), and two hose clamps, I ended up with this.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137415&d=1605101627

With the Boig cool tubes, there's some minor trimming that needs to be done on the rubber attachments, but mostly just drops right in. For the upper tube, I didn't take anything off the 90 degree elbow coming off the thermostat housing as it appears to clear the hood just fine (had to drop it on just to be sure). It sits just about 3/4" above the 3/4" tube. The Boig kit doesn't come with a fill cap so I picked up a 16 psi Motorad radiator cap (Carquest Part #10230).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137417&d=1605101648

Install of the lower tube would have been just as straight forward as the upper, however, when finalizing placement and cutting the elbow that connects the tube to the radiator, I cut it too short. The cut was spot on if I wasn't using the Breeze lower tube mounting kit, which pushes the tube down slightly because of the mounting hardware needing to sit between the frame and tube. Fortunately the local auto parts store had a 90 degree radiator tube elbow in stock and it was a quick fix. Here's the lower tube mounting kit installed. The bracket is provided in stainless steel, but as with other parts I scuffed it up and applied a couple coats of black chassis paint and clear for added protection and to match the theme of the engine bay. Quick shout out and a big thanks to CaddyDad who provided a length of rubber sheeting to take up the space in the mount to avoid the tube from rattling around. Here's the mount and tube installed.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137413&d=1605101608

Here's a pic of the upper tube and overflow set-up. I still need to route a length of hose from the outlet of the overflow tank to help route any coolant overflow away - where are folks routing that to avoid placing it in the path of the rear wheels?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137416&d=1605101640

Here's a pic of the complete cooling system.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137414&d=1605101618

[JB in NOVA]

Looking good! Just stating the obvious here, but make sure you tighten up all the hose clamps after bringing the engine up to temperature (and then again after the second, third and fourth time). All the instructions say to do this, so obviously it's important. But I was still surprised at how the clamps that seemed entirely tightened when the engine was cool suddenly needed an additional turn or more to fully tighten when hot. And I've done this after every heat-up cycle, and it seems there is always a bit more they can be tightened. And don't forget the hose clamp at the bottom of the radiator -- easy to forget because it's out of sight (and out of mind).

Looking forward to your engine start!

[VAHokie]

Hydraulic Clutch Hard & Flex Lines
After wrapping up install of the cooling system, I turned my attention back to finalizing the hydraulic clutch - one of the few things remaining on my to-do list before first start. For the hard line within the footbox, I used the same 3/16 nicopp tubing I used for my brake lines, routing it to the DS inner footbox wall where I used a 4AN to 3/8-16 brake line adapter to make the transition from the hard to the flex. I'm running Forte's mechanical throttle linkage, although not entirely installed at this point, so there was a lot of time spent determining the correct routing of the hard line so not to interfere with the footbox linkage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138671&d=1606959309

For the flex line running from the bulkhead fitting to the TOB, I used a 21" length of 4AN steel braided line.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138670&d=1606959301

As with the brake system, I first bench bled the MC and then bled the hard/flex line the old fashioned way. The initial bleeding of the system resulted in a soft pedal which I later determined to be air that snuck back into the MC during the period I disconnected the bench bleeding line and connected the hard line in the footbox. Typically the time lapse between this is a second, but for that first pass I had it off quite a bit longer. Lessoned learned. After bench bleeding the MC again, quickly swapping over to the hard line and bleeding the entire system again, I have a firm pedal and a functional clutch. I still need to install a pedal stop but will tackle that once I get a better sense for how much travel is needed.

[VAHokie]

Power Steering Plumbing
Like many others, I ditched the kit-provided power steering lines in favor of some aftermarket hoses and AN fittings. With my power steering pump (Saginaw with 850 psi regulator) and the kit-provided rack, I needed three (3) 150 degree 6AN fittings: two off the inlet/outlet ports on the rack and one off the pump. I used high pressure PTFE hose for the pressure/inlet run and leftover nylon race hose from my fuel system. After confirming with FFR Tech, the outlet pressure is at most 15-20 psi and this hose is rated at 500 psi, so should be fine. Here's are the two runs of hose:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137419&d=1605101697

The only issue I ran into, which others have experienced as well, is that the o ring on the breeze AN adapter fitting kit for the outlet port doesn't seat quite right and protrudes out beyond the fitting. This is without the kit provided washer which many have had success not using. It didn't sit right with me so I disconnected everything, installed the provided washers, and reinstalled the lines.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137295&d=1604765255

[VAHokie]

Header Install
Last order of business before attempting first start was installing the headers and side pipes. One thing for future builders to consider with their builds is that the gaskets and headers that FFR provides won't necessarily match your cylinder head exhaust ports, as was the case with mine. It's common sense given the many cylinder head options on the market, but something that never occurred to me during the build process (newbie mistake!). The cylinder head exhaust ports on my engine measure ~1 3/8" square (very similar to AFR 185s) while the kit-provided header flanges/tubes measure 1 1/8" W x 1 1/2" H. From a height perspective I'm fine, but the header flanges are 1/4" narrower (1/8" on each side) than my exhaust port which immediately flagged potential performance issues with the engine. I'm fine losing a little HP as there's plenty of it, but I was most concerned about creating issues within the engine that would void my warranty, or worse, decrease its longevity.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138673&d=1606961073

After speaking to the engine builder, FFR and getting input from a lot of folks on the FFR Builder Facebook page (thanks, guys!), it's primarily a drop in HP issue and even then it's not something i'll probably notice unless I'm racing the car, which I'm not. I ended up installing the provided gaskets and headers for now and will reassess in a couple of months. There are aftermarket options out there that will resolve the problem but in speaking with some vendors, there's a significant backlog of work and the earliest i'd receive something is Q1 of next year.

[VAHokie]

First Start
With everything on my pre-start checklist checked, I proceeded to add the necessary fluids, burp the cooling system, bleed the power steering system, prime the fuel system, and tie back any loose wires. Scottiec stopped by to assist with first start, as did one of my neighbors who worked as an auto tech for many years. With fingers crossed on one hand and a fire extinguisher in the other, I turned the key and this happened:

https://youtu.be/0HRMcQcEfqQ

We ran into a couple of fuel leaks at the pump and regulator, but easily addressed with a tightening of the AN fittings. There are still some electrical gremlins I need to chase down and also dial-in the carb, but for now, I'm celebrating reaching this major milestone (almost 23 months to the day I received the kit - I'm on the 2-3 year plan!). A lot of people to thank on this forum that helped me get to this stage in the build, especially working through the wiring. I'm not going to name everyone because I'll inadvertently leave someone out, but you know who you are. Thanks again!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138674&d=1606962296

As noted in my signature I have the Boig Quiet Pipes and am very pleased with the mellow tone. My wife and son who have very sensitive ears had no issue being near the car at idle or when we rev'd the engine. We'll see if that changes once in the cockpit, 2 feet away from the pipe at speed.

[Papa]

Congrats! That silly grin lasts for days after that first start.

[cv2065]

Awesome! Sounds great!

[Fman]

Awesome! Enjoy the first start buzz, sure is a great feeling... engine looks and sounds great!

[jrcuz]

Tony, you've been busy! It sounds and looks great. Love the quiet pipes maybe some day for me.
JR

[RJD]

Congratulations! Up next - first go-kart. Way2go!

[phileas_fogg]

Congratulations Tony. If I can help you chase electrical gremlins, let me know.


John

[scottiec]

Guys I can't stress how clean Tony's build is. Coming along fantastic.

[Blitzboy54]

Your wheels are fantastic. Really love the look.

[BadAsp427]

way to go Tony.... congrats on the milestone... only a few more to go...

[GTBradley]

Woohoo! This calls for a beer!

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, Tony! What a big day. Very motivating.

Still following along.

[JB in NOVA]

Very nice! Sounds great. Congrats!

[VAHokie]

Air Filter
Took a little time off from the build over the holidays, but have been slowly plugging along towards first go-kart. I've knocked a few small things off the to-do list to include finalizing the air cleaner install. Nothing earth-shattering about it but wanted to share that I did have to notch the air cleaner base to accommodate one of my distributor wires. Hopefully this helps with a future builder who plans to use a K&N filter. With the mod it fit like a glove and the finished product looks darn cool.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140733&d=1610678838

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140732&d=1610678829

[VAHokie]

Mechanical Throttle Linkage
A modification almost everyone I spoke to in creating my build plan recommended was Fortes' Mechanical Throttle Linkage. It's a great product and would highly recommend it. I've had it mocked up for some time but only recently got around to completing the install. As with all of the other parts, scuffed it up and applied some paint and clear coat to it.

Here are all the pieces painted and ready for install. You'll notice the bell crank on the right has a little bit of the top cut off which is to clear the top of my footbox.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140737&d=1610678900

I placed my heim joints in the firewall as close to the top of the 2" frame tube that I could. A lot of guys put them into the frame which would have addressed my footbox interference issue mentioned above. By putting them that low, I had to put relief cuts in the washers behind the firewall.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140735&d=1610678883

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140740&d=1610679941

I used a small brass fitting to help with the transition through the footbox inner panel.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140736&d=1610678893

Bird's eye view of the finished product.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140734&d=1610678871

Side view of the finished product.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140738&d=1610678905

[VAHokie]

Courtesy Lights
I wanted to do something a little different with the courtesy lights so that they matched my color scheme, so I went with some red LED lights. In addition to both of the footboxes, I also have one in the trunk that is on the same circuit. They go well with the gauges!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140739&d=1610678937

[460.465USMC]

Mechanical Throttle Linkage
A modification almost everyone I spoke to in creating my build plan recommended Fortes Mechanical Throttle Linkage. It's a great product and would highly recommend it. I've had it mocked up for some time but only recently go around to completing the install. As with all of the other parts, scuffed it up and applied some paint and clear coat to it.

That looks really sharp, Tony! Nice!

[jrcuz]

Nice work on your throttle linkage Tony. My home made throttle linkage works fine but it doesn't have any roll pins to prevent slipping, no problems so far.
JR

[egchewy79]

Nice work on your throttle linkage Tony. My home made throttle linkage works fine but it doesn't have any roll pins to prevent slipping, no problems so far.
JR

Looks great Tony. consider putting some rubber seal along the cut edge of your air filter base so that it doesn't cut through your spark plug wire boot over time w/ vibration.
JR, if you don't plan on a roll pin, at least consider filing a flat spot on your arm with a set screw. you can generate a lot of pressure on that pedal and I wouldn't want it to slip while on the freeway. I tested my Forte linkage first without roll pins and it did slip very easily despite having the set screws tight.

[VAHokie]

That looks really sharp, Tony! Nice!

Thanks, Chris. The attention to the small details like this are what stretch the build process out. Subconsciously, I don't think I want the build to end and come up with these little side projects. :)

[VAHokie]

Nice work on your throttle linkage Tony. My home made throttle linkage works fine but it doesn't have any roll pins to prevent slipping, no problems so far.
JR

Thanks, Jerry. Fortes kit comes with some roll pins but I opted to use 1/8" cotter pins. Having the looped shoulder on one end seemed like it would be easier to grab hold of up in the footbox if service is needed in the future. I'm praying that won't happen as it's tight up in there! Similar to egchewy79, one of my bell cranks would slip despite having it tightened down, which is why I had to place a pin. Not everyone has experienced slippage but an easy enough mod to do now for peace of mind. If you do drill into the arm, recommend using a drill press and some high quality drill bits.


Looks great Tony. consider putting some rubber seal along the cut edge of your air filter base so that it doesn't cut through your spark plug wire boot over time w/ vibration.


Great call out and will do!

[VAHokie]

Alignment
Long overdue for an update so I'm going to play a little catch-up here. Working towards my first go-kart, I did a rough alignment using a Longacre camber/caster tool and toe plates. They made dialing in the measurements fairly straightforward, although still time-consuming as there was a lot of bouncing from one side of the car to the other as I was making adjustments. I also spent time making adjustments to the ride height before doing the alignment to ensure the car was sitting at 4" in the front and 4.5" in the rear (I also double checked the pinion angle too). That, too, required a lot of raising/lowering the car, checking measurements, repeat. For whatever reason, I couldn't get the rear shock adjusters to turn even with the car jacked up and the weight off the suspension (the front shocks turned and adjusted just fine). I ended picking up an adjustable pin spanner wrench (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FHPC2M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which ended up doing the trick. Figured it'll be something I may need in the future and who doesn't like adding new tools to the toolbox?!?

Here's a shot of the camber/caster tool and toe plates in position. The best I could get for the caster was +7.5 degrees, both the camber and toe were dialed in to the specs in the manual. I'll leave the fine-tuning up to the professionals.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146248&d=1618452500

When setting the caster with the Longacre tool, you need to turn the wheel 20 degrees in either direction as you're taking measurements and making adjustments. The tool comes with handy 20 degree relief cuts to align with the side of the car as you turn the wheel. Once the relief is parallel to the side of the car, you're at 20 degrees. To be extra sure, I drew 20 degree marks on the garage floor. A little hard to see but hopefully you get the idea.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146247&d=1618452492

One set of instructions for setting caster and camber that aren't in the manual but shared by EdwardB and posted in other threads is the following. This was extremely helpful in ensuring I was making the proper adjustments.

Setting Camber and Caster

REAR (IRS):

Left side: Moving toe arm adjuster DOWN (from front) moves toe OUT. Moving camber adjuster DOWN (from front) moves camber POSITIVE.

Right side: Moving toe arm adjuster DOWN (from front) moves toe IN. Moving camber adjuster DOWN (from front) moves camber NEGATIVE.


FRONT:

Left side: Moving inner tie rod DOWN (from front) moves toe IN. Moving UCA adjustment sleeves DOWN (from back) move both OUT.

Right side: Moving inner tie rod DOWN (from front) moves toe OUT. Moving UCA adjustment sleeves DOWN (from back) move both IN.

[VAHokie]

Cockpit & Trunk Aluminum
With the rough alignment complete and everything seemingly buttoned up, I proceeded to install the remaining cockpit and trunk aluminum. What you don't see here is that I also installed my sound deadener/heat insulation in both areas except the cockpit floors. I still need to get the seats positioned correctly and the Breeze seat mount installed. I also used HVAC tape to seal the seams in the panels and for the insulation.

Here's the cockpit panels installed (I may have gotten carried away with the number of rivets!). These were all installed with a hand rivet tool.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146249&d=1618454144

Here's the trunk. You can see some of the HVAC tape on the RT drop trunk box.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146250&d=1618454149

I also expanded the fuel pump access area to allow more room to work on it in the future. Doing so required a custom panel to be made which I did with a 12x12 16 gauge piece of steel. It's affixed to the trunk floor panel with 10-32 screws and rivnuts to make it easily serviceable.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146251&d=1618454360

[VAHokie]

Roll Bars
I decided to go with a boltless/hidden rollbar kit to avoid the frankenstein bolt protruding from the leg and hoop junction. Just personal preference. The 520 Speedworks product is a nice option and a straightforward install. To assist with drilling the holes at the base of the hoop and legs, I fashioned up a little jig to hold them in place. Nothing fancy, but helped ensure the roll bar wasn't going anywhere as I drilled through them.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146255&d=1618454978

One thing to note for those that follow in these footsteps, be sure to get the threaded rod protruding 1/8" from the lip of the roll bar leg (per the instructions). I ended up having more than that and it resulted in a sizeable gap when installed, which wasn't going to fly.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146254&d=1618454970

Easy enough to fix, i'll just take my dremel and cut the threaded rod down to size. Unfortunately, in doing that I apparently didn't clean the cut edge of the threaded rod enough and it buggered up the coupling nut. Quick trip to the local hardware store for another threaded rod and coupling nut and I was back in business. I would have liked for the roll bars to mate up perfectly, but I think the slight variations in the angles has them offset slightly. Hardly noticeable and it may be something I take some black silicone to if it really bothers me down the road.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146253&d=1618454964

Here's the finished product. The dual roll bars aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I actually like them and I see them as protection for my passengers.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146252&d=1618454958

[VAHokie]

First Go-kart
With the alignment complete and cockpit panels in place, I couldn't resist throwing a seat in and backing the car out of the garage under it's own power for the first time. With everything appearing to be in order, I decided to take it to the end of the block and back for my first go-kart - talk about nerves!


https://youtu.be/x-IRgxhf_wU

[VAHokie]

First Go-kart (Continued)
Here's one with a little more to it.

https://youtu.be/BTsREjS1nEE

The brakes feel a little soft for my liking, but they haven't been properly bedded yet. I may need to bleed them again but will wait to get some more miles (read: trips around the block) before doing that.

There's still a lot of work to do but it feels great to reach this milestone.

[RJD]

Woo-hoo! Congratulations!!! Well done.

[egchewy79]

Nice work! I had the same gap w/ my 520 boltless kit. I'm thinking of trying the bend the rear mount a bit using a long breaker bar.
My stock brakes were also a bit lacking. As long as you don't get brake fade and have a good firm feel, it gets much better after you bed them in. I can now get them to lock up from 30-40mph.

[Blitzboy54]

Courtesy Lights
I wanted to do something a little different with the courtesy lights so that they matched my color scheme, so I went with some red LED lights. In addition to both of the footboxes, I also have one in the trunk that is on the same circuit. They go well with the gauges!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140739&d=1610678937

I’m doing some early wiring right now and I am setup to do the exact same thing. My red led’s arrived last week. I wasn’t sure how it would look now I see it will be pretty sweet.

Nice job.

[jrcuz]

You've been busy Tony. I've got the boltless roll bar kit also. I got them from the previous vendor before 520 speedworks started producing them. I've had them so long I can't remember the vendors name. I took my car to Whitby's for a few finish items including the roll bar kit and body/paint. It's been there since Feb.5th. The guy that got the trailer for the trip lives about 5 mins. from me with a Mk3. about 3 weeks ago he was rearended in his and now has nothing to drive and is still working with the other persons insurance co. so he hasn't decided where he is going to have it repaired. Whitby finished and painted originally after his 2nd deployment Here is a pic of his and mine the left rear quarter is gone from the accident. Love the go cart vids.
JR

[VAHokie]

Nice work! I had the same gap w/ my 520 boltless kit. I'm thinking of trying the bend the rear mount a bit using a long breaker bar.
My stock brakes were also a bit lacking. As long as you don't get brake fade and have a good firm feel, it gets much better after you bed them in. I can now get them to lock up from 30-40mph.

Let me know how you make out with the rear mount adjustment as I may do the same. With your brakes, what pads are you using? I upgraded to Hawk pads based on other builder recommendations.

[VAHokie]

You've been busy Tony. I've got the boltless roll bar kit also. I got them from the previous vendor before 520 speedworks started producing them. I've had them so long I can't remember the vendors name. I took my car to Whitby's for a few finish items including the roll bar kit and body/paint. It's been there since Feb.5th. The guy that got the trailer for the trip lives about 5 mins. from me with a Mk3. about 3 weeks ago he was rearended in his and now has nothing to drive and is still working with the other persons insurance co. so he hasn't decided where he is going to have it repaired. Whitby finished and painted originally after his 2nd deployment Here is a pic of his and mine the left rear quarter is gone from the accident. Love the go cart vids.
JR

Congrats on getting the car off to the paint/body shop. Look forward to seeing the finished product. Awful to hear about your friend's car but it sounds like he's OK, which is most important. The car can always be replaced!

[egchewy79]

Let me know how you make out with the rear mount adjustment as I may do the same. With your brakes, what pads are you using? I upgraded to Hawk pads based on other builder recommendations.

I've got on stock pads.

[460.465USMC]

First Go-kart (Continued)
Here's one with a little more to it.

There's still a lot of work to do but it feels great to reach this milestone.

Awesome milestone! Looking good.

[PeteMeindl]

that's awesome! Congrats on the great accomplishment. That first drive is such a thrill! :)

[BadAsp427]

Way to go!!!! Looking fantastic...

[VAHokie]

Initial Body Fitment
Been working on the body fitment for the last couple of weeks. This is the first time the body has been on the rolling chassis and boy does it look good. I'm leaving the bodywork up to the professionals, so my goal here is to trim only where I need too in order to get the body centered/square to the frame and the hood, doors and trunk seated. I don't have the bulb seal on yet as I'm checking for any initial panel interferences. Once I get the body positioned correctly, i'll take note of any places to trim and go from there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147885&d=1621100932

Couple of questions for the group:

1) I suspect there are likely subtle variations in every body and frame, so how they mate up will vary by build. On my front end, in order to get equal measurements on both sides from the frame to the top lip of the wheel opening, the body has to shift towards the PS, which leaves a 7/8 gap between the body and QJ mount and no gap on the DS. What have others found with their builds? Is there supposed to be this much variation? I know these aren't centering points on the car, but would have expected them to be a bit more uniform.

Here's the PS.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147882&d=1621100901

Here's the DS.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147883&d=1621100908

I also understand that the location of the rear door sill with respect to the latch mount should be fairly flush. Here's what I'm showing on my PS which is identical to the DS. Does this look right or does it need to come forward more?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147881&d=1621100895

[CraigS]

It is very common to need to 'persuade' those QJ mounts some. Not sure if they don't jig them well enough or maybe they are just such a handy handle for when frames get moved around. Either way, usually it's hard to move them sideways enough w/ the body on so that they stay. They need to move more than you actually want, to account for the spring back once you take you hand away. I would make notes w/ pics, figure how far each needs to move, and tweak them next time the body is off. They won't go up or down, or in or out, but you may be surprised how easily the go sideways.

[jrcuz]

As Da'Bat put it on the d/s put a 2x4 in the wheel well and "whang" it over with a BFH. I did it and it worked it moved about 3/4".
JR

[VAHokie]

It is very common to need to 'persuade' those QJ mounts some. Not sure if they don't jig them well enough or maybe they are just such a handy handle for when frames get moved around. Either way, usually it's hard to move them sideways enough w/ the body on so that they stay. They need to move more than you actually want, to account for the spring back once you take you hand away. I would make notes w/ pics, figure how far each needs to move, and tweak them next time the body is off. They won't go up or down, or in or out, but you may be surprised how easily the go sideways.


As Da'Bat put it on the d/s put a 2x4 in the wheel well and "whang" it over with a BFH. I did it and it worked it moved about 3/4".
JR

Thanks, Craig and Jerry. Now that you mention it, I do recall reading/hearing that the QJ mounts require some persuasion to get where they need to be. Thanks for the note!