Wyoming GTM Underway

[jamesfr58]

Reinstalled the J pipes with direct contact insulation pads attached and covered the cats with direct contact insulation as well. You can also see in the picture that the started is insulated from the heat as everything is tight, and I am trying to mitigate heat soak into other areas where it is not wanted.

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[jamesfr58]

Installed the exhaust pipe to check fitment in body and clearance to other equipment I might need to protect from the heat as well. The silicone fitting on the CAI should take the heat with no issues.

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[jamesfr58]

Reinstalled the CAI and routed the air filter into the space behind the cutouts on the body. This was my solution to getting them there with my configurations. Will see how it work with the remaining wheel enclosure and may design something to keep them segregated from everything else in the rear of the car.

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[jamesfr58]

Wanted to post a picture of the seat I used sitting on sliders in the GTM with the seat back tilted all the way forward. The seat back can move all the way back until you hit the window wall and all the way forward toward the steering wheel and still clear the roof of the GTM. If you can find the right size seat (these were for a fox body mustang. replacement racing seats) they will fit in the car, clear the rood and not het the window glass in the door. Took me two try's to get it right and I still have a set of seat that were to tall to sell but finally got it right.

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[jamesfr58]

Installed the window wall this morning, had to adjust a couple of things as it did not fit, the cut outs would hit the roll over bars before it went all the way back against frame for mounting. But after a little messaging and a small redo on the upholstery it is finally in and looks pretty good. Won't install the glass until I install it for the final time and it seems I have to install and remove the parts several times to get them to fit the way I want them to. Here is what the window wall looks like installed.

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[jamesfr58]

Well thought I would post this as it is the single biggest fubar moment so far building the GTM. When I discovered it, I almost wanted to have a full blown come apart, but at the end of the day sucked it up and started to correct the problem.

Some how or some where when assembling the transmission to the engine I lost or left out the retaining spring for the clutch release lever pivot that ensures the lever stays in place and does not move. Found this problem when I had to remove the clutch slave cylinder that was leaking around seal on piston. Now the clutch slave cylinder was new (it was a Centric) but I could bleed the clutch and have it working and within a few days it would bleed down enough you had to bleed it again. So, we took the slave cylinder off and removed the boot, you could see it leaking slowly past the piston in the slave cylinder, so I order a new one a different brand this time.

While taking the slave cylinder out I noticed I could move the clutch release lever, which is not supposed to move around on the shaft. So made the decision to remove the transmission to locate the problem. After some time and disassembly of the back of the car we got the transmission pulled and upon inspection notice the retaining spring for the clutch release lever pivot pin was missing, not setting in the bottom of the bell housing just plain missing in action. So back online to order new parts but this time I order all new parts for the throw out bearing (which was new) and replace the older parts that cam with the transmission so it got a Guide Tube for Clutch Release Bearing, Ball Pin for Clutch Release Lever, Clutch Release Lever, Sealing Washer for Clutch Release Lever and the infamous Retaining Spring for Clutch Release Lever Pivot.
Parts should arrive today and by tomorrow I should be putting all back to gather again with all the parts in the bell housing and hopefully the clutch will work now with the new slave cylinder. I was getting ready to drive for the first time so good thing we caught it now. Here are some pictures of the GTM disassembled and the part missing the $ 1.75 spring…….

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Here is where the spring goes and holds the lever to the pivot pin and the lever in place:

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[jamesfr58]

On the brighter side at least I know you can get the transmission out with all the other parts in place (with the body off), not sure it could be done with the body on as the cross member on the bottom prevents it from coming out the bottom side. This would be a good place for a removable crossmember like production cars so if one had to pull the tranny you could remove the cross member and remove by lowering from underside of car.

[jamesfr58]

While waiting on parts I am gone ahead and started fitting the back wall in the cockpit. Since the window wall was set and in place before we removed the body I can finish the remain back wall sections with the body off with the exception of the corner pieces that need the body in place to finish. It came out well I thing and since I have a good tight fit, believe it will seal up without having to add the extra piece between the back wall and the tunnel to take up space. Here are some pictures of the passengers side, still working on drivers side.

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[LCD Gauges]

Very nice work, I like the colour of the rear firewall.

What are the hard lines running in front of the water pump?

[jamesfr58]

The hard lines that run in front of the water pump (follow the frame and are gold in color) are from the water pump and the steam vents on the passengers side of the car to the header tank on the drivers side of the car. It cut down on the amount of hose crossing over in the tunnel and made of a clean install. The waterfall fits over them without and issue and it was easier to hole the hard lines in place than the hoses. The darker colored hard lines are fabricated radiator lines, they are hard piped through the tunnel and connect on bot ends with silicone fittings. Hope this answers you question

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[jamesfr58]

Well got my $1.75 spring for the shift lever and the other new part installed and transmission is not ready to go back in. Here is a picture of the spring as it clips onto the ball pin and holds the lever in place, along with the other new parts installed.

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[jamesfr58]

And since I had the transmission out I decided to look for better mating flanges for the CV joints. Not sure is anyone else has had any problems with this but the normal Porsche CV joint mating flanges for the year of Porsche transmission I have are very hard if not impossible to keep the CV joint boot in place. I tried the normal crimp on bands and now have bands that tighten like hose clamps. The boot would eventually pop off the mating flange given enough time and movement. So I set out the find a better mating flange design and ran across this on shown in a side by side comparison. The aftermarket mating flange has a lip and grove to help keep the CV joint boot on the flange and they appear to work great. I wanted to get this done since the tranny was out and access was fairly simple. Thought I would pass this along as they really din make a big difference and now I don't have to worry the CV boot will pop off the mating flange.

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The one on the left is the normal mating flange with CV boot attachment you would get for sat Pelican Parts, the one on the right is the new ones I found on Parts Geek that have a groove and ridge on the mating flange for the clamp to fit into with the ridge keeping the whole thing in place.

[jamesfr58]

Interior starting to look like a car..... got the other back wall (tank cover) installed on the drivers side and will final fit the waterfall today. Next step will be to put the window wall back glass in and that portion of the interior will be done. Also have transmission repaired and hope to get one of my boys to help me reinstall it today so I can begin to put all the pieces I removed back on to the GTM. The engine compartment is coming out like I wanted with the heat reflection covering in place so onward and upward...…

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[jamesfr58]

Tino,

The lighter color in my interior scheme is called Cashew, it will also run over the top (headliner) and on the dash to where it meets the darker color called Persimmon that used in the lower half of the interior. Decided to use the darker color where it can get the dirtiest from just everyday use (shoes etc.), and the seats will be recovered in both colors. The two compliment each other and the pictures really don't the contract you can see in person. I hope to paint the exterior Tangerine Pearl but not there yet and still may change my mind of the exterior color. Thought you might like to know the colors used on the interior.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looking good! Always exciting to be putting stuff back together for (hopefully) the final time!

[jamesfr58]

Well getting it back together again after making the repairs to the transmission and CV joints. The new mating flanges work great and the CV joint boots slip over the lip and stay on the mating flange with out any issues os they did the job and the boot is not falling off anymore. Al got the glass in the window wall and the wall reinstalled so all moving along good now.

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[SteveE]

James you are moving right along keep up the good work. it definitely has your spin for all the custom and color matching work.

Steve

[beeman]

Great progress, James. Sorry you had to pull the transaxle...But every time you do something like that you get better at it...
Any concerns with venting the gas tanks to the engine bay?

[jamesfr58]

Not really, believe it or not there are not many fumes that one can smell and since I am using Shane's Aluminum Hatch Cover it will be open anyway. I really do not believe there will be an issue with a lot of fumes but If I am wrong I can change them out. They do have some activated carbon in the filters, not much but some. We'll see how they do and let you know but for now really can't say a lot of fumes are escaping as again I can's smell them unless you get nose right up to filter. And I ting the roof scoop with air flowing and the open to the air hatch cover will make sure there is not a build up of fumes.

[jamesfr58]

Worked on fitting the waterfall engine cover today. Because of the interior padding (and you were right Shane) I did have to modify the top portion around the tubing on the section. But final got it on the car, have not drilled the holes to mount it yet will sleep on it and decide tomorrow if I like it where it is now. The front section with the shifter doesn't have the same issue, it even slides around so plenty of room there. Here is what it look like with the engine cover being held in place:

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[jamesfr58]

Well just got back from Kansas again, trying to help my elderly parents as they need to move from home to assisted living, hard choices to make for sure but they need help so been working on that instead of the GTM. Would rather be working on the GTM. So, I drive all the way back to Wyoming ad this is what happens the day I arrive, lets us all know winter is coming but I hope it holds off for a little while:

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Oh the Brittany puppy in the picture came home with me from Kansas, I lost my shop buddy some while back a German Shorthaired Pointer I had for years so after a while decided to get new shop buddy. Got a long way to go training her but will be nice especially a night when working in shop by myself.

[jamesfr58]

I am going to rework the waterfall engine cover posted earlier as it does not fit right, and I am going to change the color to match the rest of the tunnel. I have issue with where it sits on the tunnel, even though the back matches up as it should, the front small section will not sit all the way down on the tunnel frame. This may be my fault due to where I cut out for the cup holders and fiber glassed the top side. I may have pulled the small nose section up as it sits about 5/8" to 3/4" off the frame even though further down by the cup holders it is sitting on the frame as it should and it matches up with the rest of the engine firewall when installed. Will update when I get a good fix for this problem.

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The fron section is pulled up to match but you can see it is pulled up

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

We're going to find out. I see no reason this would not work. I just purchased a "manual" coolant shut-off from NAPA for the 5/8 hose to the heater core as well as 2 Tee fittings....one for the 5/8 coolant hose and one for the 3/4 coolant hose...both tees have a 3/8" T in the center.....so the 3/4 hose and 5/8 hose will be permanently connected with a 3/8 hose. When the petcock is closed in the manual shut off, that will dead-head the 5/8 line to the heater core and 100% of the coolant will have to run thru the 3/8 tee into the 3/4 hose. When the petcock is open (if you want heat for the winter) coolant can flow thru the heater core as well as the 3/8 tee. I plan on installing the shut off up front under the hood near the heater core so it's accessible whenever winter rolls around and you want to run coolant thru the heater core.

Well, today is the day I put this to the test. I just got this engine started today and everything seems to work well. I have the manual heater core shut-off valve mounted right up by the heater core. Once I got coolant circulating everywhere and was sure that the air was purged out of the heater core, I closed that valve and let the engine cool off over lunch. After lunch the heater core was completely cool, so I fired up the engine again with the valve still closed. The heater core remained completely cold to the touch, and while looking thru the clear part of the donor 'Vette coolant reservoir (which I mounted above the driver's side fuel tank) where the 3/4" and 5/8" heater hoses connect, there is plenty of flow thru there and those hoses get very hot....so I'd say we have plenty of circulation thru the heater core for heat when the valve is open and zero circulation thru the core when the valve is closed....but still plenty of circulation from the 5/8" heater hose to the 3/4" heater hose thru the 3/8" Tee connection. Overall, IMO, this seems to be a great set-up that avoids a lot of complications and connections.

[jamesfr58]

Great new Shane, I have the tee's to cut into the lines and install the bypass so guess my next chore it to add the bypass to insure the is flow on both sides of thermostat. Thanks for the update, thought it would work just had not tried it yet.

[Lancaster Lad]

Attn: VRaptor and James
Not trying to butt in but did you know Vintage Air has a part #344470 Coyote heater bypass.
It is H shaped and appears should work in an LS situation. I purchased one but am about
one year from engine start up but from VRaptor's test it should work.

Cecil

PS James I wish my interior would look 1/2 as good as yours but alas no equipment or skill.
Just to let you know I was born in Lander but left at 1 years old to see the bright lights of Cali.

[jamesfr58]

Well finally got back to working on the GTM, had an issue with my right leg, getting older really sucks, pulled something behind my knee and could barely walk for a few weeks but better now so back at it.

Started working on interior again and fitting the rear fire wall, window wall and engine cover. I had it sitting in there in the pictures above, but the engine cover was not sitting down on the 1” tube on the top of the tunnel. And the window wall was just barely touching the intake manifold (not enough clearance) so I had to shim the bottom of the window wall out about ¼” as shown below.

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Once the window wall was shimmed, I reworked the engine cover, wanted to change the color anyway to the same color as the tunnel as it was kind of plain looking and changing the color would give it some contrast. I removed some more foam material allowing the engine cover to come down on the 1” square tube, but when I got it in place it was ¾” lower than the two aluminum pieces on each side of the engine cover. I did not modify the two aluminum pieces and used the factory holes to set my ¼”-20 machine screws that hold it in place. I even had the front piece that covers the tunnel over the gear shift and middle dash section in place to make sure they matched up and were setting in the right place. Below, is what the engine cover looks like installed between the two aluminum pieces and with the ¼-20 screws install on the bottom and held in place. Below is what it looks like in place:

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So I was wondering if anyone else had an issue with the engine cover as I do to get it to sit on down on the 1” square tube on the top of the tunnel? And, I was thinking of leaving it this way as it will be covered in a different color and will add c some contract in shape and color on the rear firewall. Or my other option would be to build-up the engine cover top section to match the two aluminum pieces. I am all ears, and if someone has a better idea or can think of a better option please let me know. I have been looking and trial fitting this section for a while and not going to let it get to me and open for any and all ideas.

Not sure why if sits like it does on the 1" square tube, or if I have done something with the upholstery or modifications and caused it myself, but here we are and this is what I have to work with now. I am sure I needed to move the bottom of the window wall out a little to make some clearance between it and the intake manifold and I still only have a little clearance between the two now, so it will have to stay where it is out as shown in the pictures. Always something to stretch your imagination building the GTM !!

[jamesfr58]

Lancaster Lad,

Thanks for the information and born in Lander, about 5 hours (300+ Miles) from Newcastle, well bet it is at least some what warmer than here.....we already had a couple of light snows, bet you don't miss this kind of weather at all......

[beeman]

James,
My firewall was hitting my intake manifold "beauty cover" so I just deleted the beauty cover. It's only cosmetic with a little sound dampening. You could trim it too.

[jamesfr58]

Dave,

If all that was touching was the beauty cover it would have done the same thing, but with the bottom of the window wall up against the tubing it just barely touches the actual intake manifold. I am not sure if when they built the motor that started out as stock 430HP LS3 to 585HP LS3 they changed the intake manifold or not, it looks stock but when the widow wall is installed per the manual it does touch albeit very lightly, so figured moving it out as shown in picture is a better option than letting it possibly rub against it. Still fighting this section so will go down again today, sit on the stool, look at a while and see it something pop into my head while watching the races.

Hope your build coming along well and thanks for some of the great ideas you have come up with in conquering your unique challenges.

[jamesfr58]

Lancaster Lad,

Believe it or not, this is my first try at doing the upholstery work on the interior. I did go out and get a sewing machine to sew leather and other interior material but had now experience either. I joined a online class and watched hours and hours of video on how to upholster an auto interior using many different methods. Also spent hours just trying to learning how to sew a straight stich and still struggle with keeping it straight. It take me a long time (am sure someone who is skilled can do it in 1/4 the time) to get it done. Some times have to doe it two or three time to get it right but figured I could learn how to do it as it is no complicated but takes a lot of practice to make it look good. I wanted to as much on the build myself as I could and figured I could learn a new skill as well. Have other collector cars so learning how to do basic upholstery will only help with cost containment when working of them or getting ready for sale. Besides some would say I am a penny pincher and with the cost of an interior around 10K average I figured I could learn how to do this part myself.

I am sure a professional could do a much better job but with patients, preservice and a lot of trial and error I am making progress and hope to get good at it the longer I keep working at it. If I can do it I am sure almost anyone on this forum can it just take a lot of time and practice.

The only thing I planned on having an outside shop do is the paint job and maybe the final fine tuning on the body work if mine is not good enough. Like I said I want to be able to say I built this so will try complete myself but if I cannot I will go to get some outside help but going to keep learning and pushing to to the work myself...….just to see if I can, like the challenge

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hi Cecil,

Yes, I have used these before....and actually, the car I'm working on had one of these installed already. There are 2 issues I have with these......#1, is that I've had 50/50 luck with them leaking coolant....that's not very good odds. #2, they take up a ton of room......in a car where there is almost zero room to spare. The unit itself isn't that large, but by the time you get 4 heater hoses hooked up to it, all running in different directions and curved around to go the direction they need to go, it looks like a total cluster.

[crash]

Dave,

If all that was touching was the beauty cover it would have done the same thing, but with the bottom of the window wall up against the tubing it just barely touches the actual intake manifold. I am not sure if when they built the motor that started out as stock 430HP LS3 to 585HP LS3 they changed the intake manifold or not, it looks stock but when the widow wall is installed per the manual it does touch albeit very lightly, so figured moving it out as shown in picture is a better option than letting it possibly rub against it. Still fighting this section so will go down again today, sit on the stool, look at a while and see it something pop into my head while watching the races.

Hope your build coming along well and thanks for some of the great ideas you have come up with in conquering your unique challenges.

Only thing I could come up with if the intake is stock is maybe some sort of aftermarket engine mount that is raising the engine slightly?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Also depends on how much trimming you do to the rear window alum to get it raised up far enough to meet the roof of the car and to clear the welds on the halo tubes. If you don't trim it in order to get it higher up on the chassis, then yes....there is a pretty good chance that it is going to be tight to the intake manifold. On the LS376 with the moulded insulation cover over the intake, I always have to trim the leading edge of the cover back to clear the window aluminum.

[jamesfr58]

Got some time to get back out to the shop this weekend and finished the remake on the upholstery and assembly for the engine cover, fit it into the cockpit and finished the tank cover installation so the back wall is closed off now and will put the body back of the go kart. Here are some picture of what it finally came out like after I made some adjustments to window wall and got everything fit in place.

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Let me know what you think of solution, know the window wall is high enough fit it with the body of and it was up against the roof with the bulb seal compressed at round half way, but had to make a few adjustment as posted above to clear my intake manifold and the engine cover (waterfall) did not match up as they depicted in manual but did manage to adjust everything to make it all fit.

[jamesfr58]

Reworked the rear body mount, since the body fit on the mount at an angle and the one supplied by FFR just want not beefy enough in my mind I decided to manufacture my own from aluminum angle (I almost said aluminum angle iron, than new composite metal Shane and I both found) mounted on rubber vibration isolators that allow the angle to tip forward and match the angle on the body when mounted on the frame. Still need to finish the body side but want to reposition the body back on the frame before milling out the slots or holes for the body mount side.

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[jamesfr58]

Finally got the inReserve for the Infinity Box CAN-bus system installed and the electrical system back up and running. I removed the manual battery shut off that I had installed earlier and installed the inReserve clinoid in the same location. It is tripped by a manual switch that is mounted so it can be reached under the drivers side front fender and also hooked up to the door popper on the drivers side so when you hit the unlock on the RFID key fob the drivers side door opens and the clinoid reactivates and the system re-energizes. This was the only way I could see to send a pulse to the clinoid using the Digital Dawg RFID keyless system that is installed in the GTM.

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Also got my horns hooked up as well they are mounted on the sub frame that was build to stabilize and stiffen the front aluminum shroud.

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[LCD Gauges]

The wiring looks great! Are you still able to remove the battery fairly easily?

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for the compliment, and yes I can get the battery in and out with no problem. Don't know if you can tell in picture, but the battery is raised and setting about 5" above the x-brace location described in the FFR manual ans as I showed in older post. If I was to take wider angle picture you could see that it can be lifted and tipped a little toward the cockpit and it will then come right out.

[LCD Gauges]

It's difficult to tell, but now that you pointed it out I can see what you did.

[Shoeless]

Nice work James!!

I have a question on your Digital Dog setup and integration with the InfinityBox. The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you have the digital dog pushbutton ignition system that has RFID built in security (i.e. you can't start the car unless the RFID card or fob is within range of the car)?

And are you also running an InfinityBox inTouch and/or inLink?

I'm thinking of adding the digital dog system to my build, as I like the RFID pushbutton security, but wondering if there is some type of bypass if you are out of range of the RFID that would still allow me to start the car via the inTouch.

[KGTM]

So how does this RFID work for you? do you plan to have remote also? sounds like unnecessary to have two fabs, one could use the remote to almost the same.

Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Sean and Mostafa,

Sean, that is correct you must have the RFID fob in range in automatic or by pushing the buttons in manual. There is no bypass for the system that I now of and in fact I had an issue trying to integrate the two systems and, in the end, installed them as separate stand alone systems with the exception of the safety interlock that required a + signal to operate. I could not get the ignition system to work being tripped by the PBS-II system even using the invert Mini or a rely to swap current. I did not use the inLink as a remote as I could use the fob supplied with the PBS-II system to operate what I need.

Mostafa, the PBS-II system RFID fob (remote) that has buttons and works good in either manual or automatic (where it energizes the system when you get within range) and the single fob supplied with the system also controls the door poppers and the hatch popper with some extra functions not used.

I have two separate systems, but it also adds for flexibility to the system and insures for the most part I don't get a positive feedback to the Infinity Box Master Cell causing a failure in the Master Cell. And, if I have a problem with the Master Cell in my set up, I can still start and drive the care even though most of the system will be off line by jumping power to the safety switch lead.

I have a Digital Guard Dawg PBS-II system that for the most part is separate from the Infinity Box CAN-bus system. The only interface I have is with the brake safety interface, you must step on the brake to send signal to PBS-II system to allow the car to start. I also have the Infinity Box inTouch Net installed so that the system can talk to the tablet or cell phone and the various function except for the PBS-II RFID push buttons start. I did not attempt or try to install a remote start since this is manual transmission and could in theory move or roll if the transmission left in neutral should the emergency brake fail, and as stated earlier the safety on the PBS-II system needs to be hooked up to clutch or brake to make the system engage the starter and to shut the engine down.

The two system are separated and in fact one could if needed start and drive the car even with the Infinity Box system shut down in my set up. You would have to send signal to the PBS-II system, but this could be done by jumping a (+ signal) to the system, and if fact this is how I ran the engine before I finished hooking it to the brake system. You could also wire the trip wire to power in which case the PBS-II system will work but there would be no safety in the system, and you could start the car in gear causing it to move as soon as it starts.

The only issue I have now that I can reconfigure is the Dakota Digital fan controller needs the Infinity Box system on to operated but have been looking at another option that will allow all the bare bones systems (engine + cooling) to operate should the CAN-bus system fail or go down. Guess this was my engineering raining coming out for a need for back up redundant system that will at the very least get me home.

[KGTM]

Do you have power steering?

Mostafa.

[KGTM]

Boy i did change the subject didn't I, did not mean too but still in like to know though.

I have remote for my car and if the car is not unlocked the by remote, nothing works, so if one breaks the window and open the car from inside nothing will work, and it cost only $10.

I also has a mode that locks the ecu and starter but all other functions work fine, like all the dash, stereo door locks and poppers and so on, so sort of car demo but no one can not take the car and run without the remote.

Mostafa

[Shoeless]

Thanks for the rundown James!! Definitely gives me more insight to your train of thought and functionality of both systems.

Always the engineer in us coming up with standalone and integration of systems. I’m enjoying this challenge :cool:

[jamesfr58]

Mostafa,

Well that happens to me to sometimes, no I do not have power steering. I do have a unit to install if I want to but reserved judgement on this item until I have driven it for a bit. As light as the car is I do not believe it will need power steering even at low speeds, I have several custom hot rods that are heavier that the GTM will be and they do not have power steering but can be driven with no problem or a lot of extra force needed to steer at low speed. And at higher speeds on wound not want or need power steering to insure you do not oversteer for the driving conditions at high speed.

I kind of have the same set up with the PBS-II system, when the system activates one push of the start button with foot off the brake turns on Acc. 2 and allows the radio and other items I want to operate with out powering up the ignition system, the second push on the button without foot on brake will activated Acc. 1 and energize the ignition system and other system needed to run the GTTM's operating systems apart for the stand alone Digital Dawg / ECU system that actually start and run the motor. Then when you put your foot on the brake the light flashes and it is ready to start with the next push of the button. So the electrical, ECU and RFID comprise 3 integrated systems that operate together and run everything in the GTM. My ECU was supplied with the create engine I hand build to 585HP and is stand alone, programed for the current engine configuration. I did no use any of the Painless Harness and custom built and wired the GTM myself so that I got the integration needed between each operating system.

Yes you are right it did cost more and required I build each piece f the wiring system myself but in the end I am happy with the way it operates and as stated if the Infinity Box system happens to go down or has a malfunction I can still drive the care minus the gauges, lights, turn signals, and say the windows will not roll up and down but I will be able to jumper the safety on the Digital Dawg system and start and drive until I get somewhere to make repairs to the effected Infinity Box systems. In my experiences with complex controls systems like the Infinity Box system (I use even more complicated control system in our engineering projects) one always needs to have a work around to insure you remain on line and operable until you get to a pint where you can shut down and make repairs. That was my thinking when I designed them as basically stand alone but still integrated system operating the GTM. It can be a ling way to anywhere if you break down somewhere in the middle of no-where Wyoming......

[KGTM]

Jame,

The front is still about 900 pound or so with no one in the car, I cannot move my wheel without the power steering pump, it for me is the best thing, be hard to change later as you will need a new rack.

the reason I asked was I noticed your battery location and would have be hard with power steering as it want to seat right around the battery area.

For a Manual car seems like the push start should check the clutch and not the brake, or at least both, or may be clutch and park brake. for now I just have the clutch did not do Brake since some times I need accelerator to start the car, not enough legs.

I use the curse control functions for start, on and on, so no start button any where else, it is on the column.

Also my system all turn on once you unlock the car, so it ready supper fast.

what is you sleep/off current with remote and RFID and all the other stuff not disconnected? (Not using silly iReserve )

Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Mostafa,

The PBS-II system turns on and off all items through Acc. 1 (ignition system Items) and Acc. 2 (items I want to run without having the ignition system activated) so everything with the exception of the CAN-bus system it turned off including the radio amp and powered sub woofer. The CAN-bus is activated and deactivated by a coil that is turned on when I unlock the PBS-II system to pop the drivers door and arm the system. Not totally sure of how good it will really work but should turn everything except constant power to the ECM and the PBS-II two system.

[jamesfr58]

Well just thought I was done with all the wiring, then noticed I forgot or maybe never though of running all the speaker, control and power wires for the stereo system. Had some of them run but not all of them so went back and got all wiring installed to operate the head unit and support in amp and subwoofer. So got it done and now waiting on equipment to finish install. When all equipment installed and wiring routed to doors in place I will put body back on and move on to the door fabrication and install. Getting there slowly as long as I can don't have to go back and pick up anything else.

[jamesfr58]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, will be going to Montana to visit the wife's sister so done working on the GTM for a few days, hope everyone has a great holiday.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Happy Thanksgiving to you also, James! Have a safe trip to Montana......didn't you guys just get dumped on with snow yesterday or Monday?

[KGTM]

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL. seems like will be a cold one this year, it has been nasty few day on the west and more to come, hate to see what would it look like once it hit your neck of the woods.

James, as far as I know the infinity box draw lots of power even with two power cells, battery will last only few day if not totally disconnected iReserve. I do not know about other as how much power they use.

I am trying to get mine with everything ignition off under 40ma, with everything connect and ready to fire up, this will give me about at least 3 weeks still start the car, a bit harder than it looks, but still working on it.

Mostafa

[Jkviper]

Sean and Mostafa,

Sean, that is correct you must have the RFID fob in range in automatic or by pushing the buttons in manual. There is no bypass for the system that I now of and in fact I had an issue trying to integrate the two systems and, in the end, installed them as separate stand alone systems with the exception of the safety interlock that required a + signal to operate. I could not get the ignition system to work being tripped by the PBS-II system even using the invert Mini or a rely to swap current. I did not use the inLink as a remote as I could use the fob supplied with the PBS-II system to operate what I need.

Mostafa, the PBS-II system RFID fob (remote) that has buttons and works good in either manual or automatic (where it energizes the system when you get within range) and the single fob supplied with the system also controls the door poppers and the hatch popper with some extra functions not used.

I have two separate systems, but it also adds for flexibility to the system and insures for the most part I don't get a positive feedback to the Infinity Box Master Cell causing a failure in the Master Cell. And, if I have a problem with the Master Cell in my set up, I can still start and drive the care even though most of the system will be off line by jumping power to the safety switch lead.

I have a Digital Guard Dawg PBS-II system that for the most part is separate from the Infinity Box CAN-bus system. The only interface I have is with the brake safety interface, you must step on the brake to send signal to PBS-II system to allow the car to start. I also have the Infinity Box inTouch Net installed so that the system can talk to the tablet or cell phone and the various function except for the PBS-II RFID push buttons start. I did not attempt or try to install a remote start since this is manual transmission and could in theory move or roll if the transmission left in neutral should the emergency brake fail, and as stated earlier the safety on the PBS-II system needs to be hooked up to clutch or brake to make the system engage the starter and to shut the engine down.

The two system are separated and in fact one could if needed start and drive the car even with the Infinity Box system shut down in my set up. You would have to send signal to the PBS-II system, but this could be done by jumping a (+ signal) to the system, and if fact this is how I ran the engine before I finished hooking it to the brake system. You could also wire the trip wire to power in which case the PBS-II system will work but there would be no safety in the system, and you could start the car in gear causing it to move as soon as it starts.

The only issue I have now that I can reconfigure is the Dakota Digital fan controller needs the Infinity Box system on to operated but have been looking at another option that will allow all the bare bones systems (engine + cooling) to operate should the CAN-bus system fail or go down. Guess this was my engineering raining coming out for a need for back up redundant system that will at the very least get me home.

Hi James, very informative post. I haven’t purchased an electrical system yet and would like your opinion. Many SLC builders have used the Infinity box system since it was the standard system which came with the kit and came with harnesses for the exterior lights and steering column stalks

In my build I plan to use the Engine ECU harness to control the fans and fuel pump since they can be ramped up using PWM. I also I like the digital guard dog system for push button start and power locks. Also going with a wireless push button steering wheel system for blinkers, wipers, etc so I would not use the supplied harness. Lastly, there will be no power windows. I am very impressed with the Infinity Box System, but considering my requirements, is there any major reason to go with such a comprehensive system if all it will really do is control the exterior and interior lights?

Appreciate the feedback.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hi James, very informative post. I haven’t purchased an electrical system yet and would like your opinion. Many SLC builders have used the Infinity box system since it was the standard system which came with the kit and came with harnesses for the exterior lights and steering column stalks

In my build I plan to use the Engine ECU harness to control the fans and fuel pump since they can be ramped up using PWM. I also I like the digital guard dog system for push button start and power locks. Also going with a wireless push button steering wheel system for blinkers, wipers, etc so I would not use the supplied harness. Lastly, there will be no power windows. I am very impressed with the Infinity Box System, but considering my requirements, is there any major reason to go with such a comprehensive system if all it will really do is control the exterior and interior lights?

Appreciate the feedback.

The Infinity Box system can pretty much be programmed to do whatever you want it to do. That is the default system we go with if we are doing keyless push button start and door poppers (which could also be door locks if you want). With the InLink installed on the Infinitybox system, the key fob can be used to lock and unlock the "system"...which can include locking the doors (or disabling the door poppers), disabling the ignition and starter, roll down the windows or whatever else you tell Infinitybox you want it to do....and none of that requires any extra wiring....it's all done in the programming. The keyless push button start is literally a single wire hook-up....all of the logic is done inside the programming. Yes all of the motors can be programmed for "soft start". I will not say that the Infinitybox system is easier or faster than wiring up a typical "Painless" harness.....you still pretty much have all the same wires that need to be ran, but it does eliminate a bunch of relays and even though you have all of the same wires running to the starter and ign + of the engine harness and lights and door locks, and fans, etc, etc.....all of those things can now be programmed to do whatever you want them to do. Interior lights can be timed to turn on when the doors are unlocked and turn off when the ignition comes on ( just like any modern production vehicle), anything you want disabled (starter, ignition +, door poppers, etc) can be disabled when you "lock/arm" the system with the remote key fob, etc....and none of that requires any extra wiring....it's all done in the programming.

[jamesfr58]

Finishing up the last bit of wiring for the head unit, Amp and speaker installation before putting the body back on to begin the working on body. Since I removed it to finish the back firewall decided (or it dawned on me) that I should get all the wiring run and speakers in place before putting the body back on. This is my solution with limited space to install the Amp on the drivers side. Not a real power Amp but will boost sound system and the Amp has been tested to above the rating of 600W so should work just fine. It is one of the newer digital amps that has 4 channels built as two amps in one and is considerable smaller that some other amps. I have been covering the wire loom and wire loom clips in the same material that I used on the interior to help hid all the wires, think it will com out ok.

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[KGTM]

Shane, who does the programming of the infinity box? Can I do my own? have you done any of these programming? can you leave the system on for at least a week or two without then being disconnected?

Thanks,
Mostafa

[Edgeman]

I think you have to get Infinity Box to program but you can buy the interface to down load the program after they send it back to you.

[jamesfr58]

Mostafa,

You need an inCODE programming module form Infinity Box to update or change configuration of the system to meet your needs. Infinity Box will have tom program the changes for you and then you can load the modified program directly to the master cell, but they must write the program once you let them know what you need. This is the only way I know of changing the program is to have them write the program you need and then download it to the master cell with the inCODE module. The inCODE module is around $335 from Infinity Box and I don't thing you can change the programming with out it, or having them program the changes and send them to you for upload with the inCODE module.

[KGTM]

Thanks Guys, can you make major changes or only small changes? anyone has had them do this and it is free?

Thanks,
Mostafa

[Edgeman]

Any major changes you will have to send to them. Say having a front engine configured then going rear, like the GTM then it will have to be sent back. All other changes are simple to load with the inCode programming module. It was free when I had mine done. Not sure if Jay is still there but all the guys are excellent to work with.

Later,

[jamesfr58]

Still working on finishing up the installation of the Amp and Woofer, have the drivers side installed and have covered the wiring for the most part it will be hidden or in a sleeve the same color as the upholstery.

Amp installed and wired:

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Templet for my Kicker 4" full range speakers that will be behind the seats with Amp on drivers side and Woofer passengers side, still waiting on the Woofer parts to finish the passengers side but will get speaker enclosures built for both sides. Been waiting a week for UPS to deliver, every day they show it out for delivers and everyday the driver takes it back, logs it in and the logs it out for delivery the following day. Called them and the office in Gillette that is final destination before delivery told me if the road was muddy or had snow he wont deliver, go figure never heard of that before. Oh will try to get this week, not sure what they expect this is Wyoming and it is winter so they better figure out something. Never had a problem before they always came but have new young drive and guess he does not know how to drive in bad weather !!!

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[jamesfr58]

Thought about building a cover to cover all the wiring and hide everything with cutout for just the Amp face but not sure how hot will get so decided to go this route for now until I know how hot Amp will get. It is spaced off the rear upholstered firewall 1/4" with standoff's to allow air to circulate around Amp. Could build a bigger cover and put the speaker in the cover that would hide most everything. Amp and speaker box only 2 2/4" off the back firewall.

Also finished adding the temperature reflective gold to the remain spaces and firewall pieces including the waterfall engine cover to the entire engine compartment has heat reflective coating, not just need to make sure the heat leaves the engine compartment.

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[Shoeless]

Thought about building a cover to cover all the wiring and hide everything with cutout for just the Amp face but not sure how hot will get so decided to go this route for now until I know how hot Amp will get. It is spaced off the rear upholstered firewall 1/4" with standoff's to allow air to circulate around Amp. Could build a bigger cover and put the speaker in the cover that would hide most everything. Amp and speaker box only 2 2/4" off the back firewall.

Also finished adding the temperature reflective gold to the remain spaces and firewall pieces including the waterfall engine cover to the entire engine compartment has heat reflective coating, not just need to make sure the heat leaves the engine compartment.

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Hey James,

I have done several car stereos in the years past where I created a cover plate so to speak with a cutout for the amplifiers so it flush mounted with the cover plate, just as you mentioned, and never had an issue with heat. You should be find doing that.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Shane, who does the programming of the infinity box? Can I do my own? have you done any of these programming? can you leave the system on for at least a week or two without then being disconnected?

Thanks,
Mostafa

Hi Mostafa,

Yes, as others have mentioned, you can tell Mike at Infinitybox what changes you want...for example, I want Output 3 on Powercell #2 to come on any time the ignition comes on.....or I want Output 4 on Powercell #1 to be disabled when the system is "armed/locked" with the keyfob.....or I want Output 6 to turn on for 1 second (door poppers) when input 6 is triggered.....or I want output 7 to stay on for 30 seconds after output 6 is triggered (door popper triggers the dome light to come on and stay on for 30 seconds) or until the ignition comes on. So, you tell them all the changes you need, they make the changes to the code and email the new code to you. You do need their interface to upload the new code to each Mastercell and Powercell module.

I ALWAYS install the inReserve option on every car we build with the Infinitybox system. With the inReserve, you can leave the car unattended for weeks with no battery drain. On the cars we build here, I wire most of them (unless the owner tells me otherwise) so that only the engine ECU memory wire and stereo memory wire have power with the inReserve tripped. Without the inReserve installed, if you leave the Infinitybox system powered up the whole time, your battery will be drained to the point the car may not start within a matter of about 3 days.

[KGTM]

How does remotes and blinking light/beeps for lock and unlock are done have to always turn the Infinitybox off, should at least be good for few weeks or more, but at least from weekend to weekend, one of the reason I opted out after considering it for a long time. but cost me a lot more doing my own, but so far so good.

Mostafa

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The inReserve has no way of "waking itself" back up. Once the inReserve is tripped (which I recommend doing manually whenever you leave the car for any extended period (more than a day) the car is dead. The only thing that has power is the stereo memory and ECU memory. There is a manual momentary push button that re-connects the battery disconnect. Same button is used to disconnect the battery. So, you can "arm/lock" the system with the remote key fob, then trip the inReserve (or the inReserve will trip itself once battery voltage drops below 12.2V) and when you hit the momentary button to reconnect the battery, the system remembers that it is "locked" and all of the functions you have locked out will still be locked out. If you left the system unlocked and then tripped the inReserve, the system will be unlocked when you reconnect the battery. Very user-friendly and if you forget to disconnect the battery, it will automatically do it for you, so either way, you're protected from a dead battery.

So I guess to answer your question, when you "arm" the system to lock it, you can have it programmed to give you the typical parking light flashes and horn honk if you wish.....and same for unlocking/disarming the system......but none of that will happen or work once the inReserve is tripped because the entire Infinitybox system is completely dead at that point.

[jamesfr58]

Joel,

My Infinity Box system with inTouch controls everything, from lights, environmental controls, all interior functions or basically everything apart from the ignition system and the stand-alone ECU that was done for my engine. It does eliminate wiring and relays for everything that normally would require a relay, so it does make the wiring somewhat simple if you remember that all inputs are ground triggered. It integrates with the Digital Dawg but for safety features only as in needing foot on break or clutch to start the car, but as mentioned above it I had to I could drive the car albeit with some function not working if the Infinity box system goes down.

Guess at the end of the day it is personal preference as to how one what's to configure or what components to use. I will have a tablet in the car that will run the Infinity Box system and as such run most all functions of the car. My system works like Shane mentioned above, the inReserve shuts everything down either manually with moment switch or when the voltage drops with the exception of the stereo memory, ECU and in my case I also have a wire hooked to constant power for the Digital Dawg PBS-II system that wakes it up when you approach with RFID key or manually. Once the system wakes up and arms (the angle eye LED illuminates) it also trips the inReserve and turns the complete electrical system back on ready to go. So I have three items hooked up to contestant power stereo memory, ECU and the wire that will arm the PSB-II (it draws very little power with PBS-II shut down) so I always have enough power to start the car. I know if it is just left to sit for a long period of time the low amp draw items on constant power will draw the battery down as it does in say my Mustang that set all winter long, so I have been towing of installing an onboard maintainer that would be simple to just plug into for when it is going to sit for a long period of time.

[KGTM]

James, how do you control the environmental ( I assume you mean heater and ac stuff ,the 3 knobs replacement ) with Infinity Box? did not know it does that.

How do you re enabled the inReserve? is this done by remote? how long does it stay on if already below low battery level I think Shane said 12.2V

Thanks,
Mostafa

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

James, how do you control the environmental ( I assume you mean heater and ac stuff ,the 3 knobs replacement ) with Infinity Box? did not know it does that.

How do you re enabled the inReserve? is this done by remote? how long does it stay on if already below low battery level I think Shane said 12.2V

Thanks,
Mostafa

https://infinitybox.com/product/invironment/

That is the interface for the heat/AC controls.

The inReserve is re-enabled with a momentary push button. You can probably have it stay on for whatever amount of time you want Infinitybox to program it to stay on. If the battery is under 12.2v, that will be "fixed" the second the engine starts (assuming that your alternator is working properly).

[jamesfr58]

Mostafa,

As Shane mentioned above if the voltage drops to 12.2 volts the inReserve trips the electronics Infinity Box System) off line and they remain off line until reactivated by either pushing the momentary switch that Shane is talking about or you can also trip it from another power source that has constant power. As I mentioned I have constant power to the stereo memory, ECU and a small draw to the PBS-II system so it will reactivate when in range or at the push of a button. Besides the momentary switch Shane was referring to I also have the inReserve hooked up to the PBS-II system so that when I unlock the driver side door it also trips the inReserve and reactivates all the systems that were shut down when the voltage drops below 12.2 volts, so it is also activated reactivated with the remote for the PBS-II system.

Also as Shane stated I have the inEnvironment control module that replaces the 3 knob system (cannot have both methods to operate hooked to the Vintage Air controller, will not operate with both systems hooked up) and with the InEvironment module in the system operates off the touch pad installed to control the Infinity Box System.

[jamesfr58]

Working on some type of cover for the stereo equipment behind the seat. Here is a first look at the direction I am heading with plywood mock up setting on the passanger side panel that has the sub woofer and a 4" full range Kicker speaker. Think this will be the final design but will go down today and revisit and contemplate some more on ho I want it to look.

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[jamesfr58]

Got the passengers side Amp and Speaker covers done basically, have to round off some edges still and then will cover to match the panel. This should hide all the wiring and should stay clear of the back seat when it reclines. The one on the drivers side will be the same dementions, just a right hand left hand versions. Here is what they look like before fine tuning and covering them.

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[KGTM]

do you plan to leave the seat out? in y car these is not much room behind there, and most of sound may be be blocked by seat.

So far for me, no need for stereo while the car is running, way to loud, may be only in 6th gear at about 1500 RPM.

so If Ireserve turn off at 12.2 volts and now the voltage is 12V and one forces it on, how long before it turn back off?

Thanks,
Mostafa

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

do you plan to leave the seat out? in y car these is not much room behind there, and most of sound may be be blocked by seat.

So far for me, no need for stereo while the car is running, way to loud, may be only in 6th gear at about 1500 RPM.

so If Ireserve turn off at 12.2 volts and now the voltage is 12V and one forces it on, how long before it turn back off?

Thanks,
Mostafa

Not sure what the default setting is, but I'm sure it can be programmed to be anything you want. I do know it is definitely enough time to get in and get the engine started....and once the engine is started, the voltage will instantly go to 13+v as soon as the alternator starts spinning.....which will prevent the inReserve from tripping again until you turn off the engine and the voltage dips back down to 12.2.

[KGTM]

well during start the voltage will go well below 12.2V and what if the car does not start?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

When you trip the inReserve to reconnect the battery, if the voltage is below 12.2, you have X amount of time before it trips again....say 5 minutes. The system could care less at that point if the voltage is 12.2 or 9v......you are on a timer. Whether the car starts or not really has nothing to do with it. If the car doesn't start, eventually (when the inReserve timer runs out) the inReserve will trip again and disconnect the battery. At that point, you can trip the inReserve again to get another 5 minutes to try to start the engine....but in reality, if you can't get the engine started in the time allotted...then inReserve is not really your problem....you will have to figure out why your engine won't start.

[KGTM]

Should have just check the website, 15 minutes timer.

One buys Infinity box to simplify things but to make it work one needs to make it more complicated, Inreserve should be free as without it system will not work well at all.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I think the reality is that one buys Infinitybox in order to modernize things and allow you to do things that would be impossible or at least very difficult (complicated) without it. If you want simple, use the Painless harness that comes with the kit and do not add any other electrical components other than what is necessary to operate the car. If you want modern (keyless entry key fobs, keyless push button start, timed interior lighting, security, touch-screen controls, ability to operate the car from a smart phone, etc, etc)....then Infinitybox is the way to go.

[KGTM]

Yes, I like all the goodies that modern car bring, but my moden car does not disconnect after few day and have a manual switch to kick start it all the time and wait for it to boot/run

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

....and I'm guessing that Infinitybox does not have a multi-million dollar R&D budget to work with like a major production car company. Yes....I agree that it would be awesome if the inReserve was not necessary and the battery would last a month sitting idle.....but that is not the case.....and there aren't that many other choices on the market that can do what the Infinitybox system can do.

[Shoeless]

Although I appreciate the dialogue on the Infinity Box System, and we get it KGTM you are not a fan, and that’s perfectly fine, we all get to chose what items we include in our builds, but can we do James a favor and take this to another thread as to not clog up his build updates?

[jamesfr58]

Got the stereo equipment on the passenger’s side installed and the cover build and install that hide all the wire and hardware mounting. It is open on the bottom and has a small slot in top to allow air to circulate around the equipment. Now on to the body again, will remount the body on the car and start building the doors and other body parts. Have one more to finish building for the driver’s side but here is what the one on the passenger’s side looks like.

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[jamesfr58]

Merry Christmas to Everyone, enjoy the holidays and family. I have a house full including 4 new grandkids under 3, makes 9 total now and they are always fun around the holidays. I get to wind them up and then send them home.... That's our job as Grandparents !!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

LOL!!....have a great Christmas and have fun with those grandkids!

[Shoeless]

Merry Christmas James and fellow builders. Get those grandkids all wound up and send them home LOL
'

[jamesfr58]

Thanks guys and Merry Christmas !!

[KGTM]

Merry Christmas to Everyone and enjoy some family time.

Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Now have the driver side stereo and amp boxes built and installed. This hides all wiring with the exception of a small section on the drivers side where power and ground come into the box. Also hung the brackets for the front hood, and the nose of the car is sitting on the front somewhere in the general proximity of it final location. Need to get the body back on and located now and will then attach the front hood section. Making some progress, albeit kind of slow around the holiday but getting a few thing done. Will miss out on about two weeks in January as will be heading to Florida (Fort Lauderdale and Orlando) to take the wife to Disney World etc. and on a 7 day cruise to the Caribbean. She had been going to car shows, auctions, races and other thing I wanted to do like fishing in Alaska so this winter going to do something she wants to do, should be fun...… Any here are some pictures of drivers side box installed and with both boxes installed.

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Nose of GTM a little dirty after sitting around for a couple of years, but will get it cleaned of and looking good. Nice to finally see the major body part going on even if I have to remove them again, it is the first time to see what it will really look like in real life....

[Shoeless]

Those stereo boxes look great James!!!

[KGTM]

Hi James,

This looks great, but if intent is great sound I am not sure about that, although the Sub can be blocked and may be less of an issue, the Mid and hi can not be blocked much as you will lose lot of audio quality, the doors will sound good if good speaker and done right.

Not sure about you height, but if any taller than 5.8 not sure if there is room behind the seat especially on driver side, unless the back of the seat is reclined too vertical. definitely not with stock seat.

I am sure you have check these, it just look tight from picture.

Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Thanks to Shane at VRaptor and his mounts for the harness bar I got it fitted up, welded and it is no in paint. The picture is of the fit after welding, the end caps are not on yet but have been installed and it is primed and painted, drying now and I will clear coat when dry.

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[jamesfr58]

Also located the cabin lights along side the speaker boxes, will point the driver side toward passengers side and passengers side toward the drivers side should light up interior quite well and they don't look bad where they are sitting now. Not sure if I will leave the there yet, and they are only held on by some two sided tape for now.

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[jamesfr58]

Decided I needed to get the harness bar on before I put the body back on as not sure I can reach 1/2" bolts once the body is on......

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Yeah....definitely easier to get the harness bar installed before the body goes on. It is possible to get to those once the body is on if you go up thru the rear wheel-wells, but then it about requires 2 people.

[jamesfr58]

While waiting on the clear coat to harden on the harness bar, started fine tuning the front tunnel cover and center dash sections. They have been modified extensively to insure I could get my 7" head unit with GPS, Navigation Apple Car Play and Hand Free calling installed and still make all the switching work, along with a 7" tablet that will run the Infinity Box system through the InTouch net module. Here it is with the had unit mount in place and the head unit inserted in the mounting bracket with the bezel installed. It is tight but it did all go together as I was planning. Still have a few thing to work out but appears to be going my direction.

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[beeman]

Looks great, James, but let me know how the hands free calling goes! :p I see myself wearing noise canceling headphones driving this thing...
Seriously though, I installed an aftermarket hands free calling head unit in a relatively quiet vehicle I used to have and it's nothing like OEM...

[jamesfr58]

Still waiting on my 72 hours to pass on the clear coated harness bar so still working on the small but very time consuming (for me anyway, never attempted to do an interior or the upholstery work before) as there is a lot of small parts and pieces that have to go together and still work. So today got the front half of the tunnel cover and middle section of the dash at least in the car to make the needed modifications to make sure it all would fits as need and work where placed.

You can see that head unit is no in the car through the modified hole:

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This view show just how tight it is, there is enough room to get everything hooked up on the back side but not much room to spare. I used Shane's stereo closeout pan with some modifications but VRaptor does it again a perfect fit.

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[jamesfr58]

So, when in place I tried the shift gates and found out my guess on the room required to hit all the gear clean was off just a little. You can see the cover plate in the pictures above, then see what it looks like now. I had to fabricate a new aluminum plate and will again laminate the African rose wood to the aluminum plate, so it matched the switch plate like the one above.

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Guess I should have waited before covering and finishing the first one. Only way to build so of this once you leave the manual to build it like you want it is to build in on the car instead of measuring and hope you get it right. The shifter now hits all the gates with room to spare and I know it will go into gear and not pop out due to being to tight.

[KGTM]

Hope you check reverse too, Looks Great.

Happy new year all.

Mostafa.

[jamesfr58]

Dave,

Not sure how good the hands free will be but it came with the head unit so I installed the parts to make it work. If and when I ever do get the gigantic project done I will give it a try and let you know. Figured I would get it in with everything else, easier now than later if I want to install it, may never use it but at least I know its there.

[jamesfr58]

Banging away at getting all the little things done for the body goes back on, mounted the completed harness bar in the car today so thought I would post a few pictures of the finished product installed. And want to give Shane at VRaptor Speedworks for the harness bar brackets they worked out great.

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[Shoeless]

That console is really coming together nicely!!! Steering wheel looks great too ;)

[jamesfr58]

I have a question for anyone and Shane, concerning the routing of the wiring from the body out to the doors and threw to the inside of the door. I have been looking at this and for some reason I just cant get my head around the routing or if I need to drill through the 1 1/2" tube upright for the best routing to hid the wiring and still allow the door to close. I am open to any and all ideas as I would like to get these routed prior to reinstalling the body again.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I route all of the door wiring thru the top 1.5" square chassis tube (as shown in the FFR manual). So all of the wires exit the end of the tube, curve forward and inward against the alum footwell/wheel well panel and then enter the door right below the bottom hinge. I install a "hose clamp" around the loom to hold the wires against the alum panel in a location where they won't get pinched by the door stop or the door itself. I'll post a pic from my phone of a crude example if I can.....

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

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.....

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Shane, had not thought or running it inside the tube but better than what I was thinking...Again thanks.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Takes a bit of planning ahead since it is pretty much impossible to add wires later if you figure out you forgot a wire that needs to run into the door. I get all of the wires together that need to run to each door, loom them from before the enter the tube and all the way thru the tube, then fish the wires thru the tube with a fish tape.

[Shoeless]

Maybe stupid question since I'm not that far ahead in my build and haven't looked that far in the build book in a bit, but I have started to run wiring as I'm waiting on a few things.

Where are you entering that square frame tube? I'm guessing I can just cut an entrance hole near where my power cells are located or wherever appropriate?

I'll have to lay out everything I plan for the doors, as you recommended, before I run them. Stereo speakers, window motor, door poppers.

[jamesfr58]

Sean, attached are a couple of picture of where I entered the square tube frame, have a grommet where I entered and you can see the wires exiting the square tube at the door locations. Need to give shout out to Shane he sent me a picture of one he was working on as the solution was so simple, I was making it harder than it needed to be and Shane VRaptor set me straight. Hope this helps, I entered the frame close to the power cell on the passenger side and close to the master cell on the drivers side.

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[jamesfr58]

My wiring for the stereo speakers, door poppers and windows are in the bundle going through the square tube. I also remade the back body mount and it is now a piece of aluminum angle that is mounted on rubber feet that allow the angle to move past 90 degrees. This should work better that the piece supplied with the kit and I will mill out the red outlined slotted holes once the body is back on and centered to I know exactly where it will be sitting.

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[jamesfr58]

Finished the brackets for keeping the shift cable in place along the lower part of the frame which should keep them out of the heat effected zone an hopefully keep for having a problem due to heating up and expanding prevent shifting issues that have been discussed on the forum.

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[KGTM]

Here are some picture of my doors, I also have a connector so I can removed the door without opening the door panels, I actually wired the door before even hanning it on the car.

Supports window, mirror, mirror position for changing angle for backup ro change driver support, door popper, door open button, light for the button and speakers

Pictures of left and right doors

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Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for the pictures Mostafa, that is good idea and would sure make removing the door easier. I will have to look at something like the set up you have makes good since.

[KGTM]

No Problem, Glad it may help.

The connectors help me a lot as I had to removed door few times after hanging them.

Mostafa

[jamesfr58]

Located and mounted the windshield wiper motor plate in the nose, still need to mount windshield washer bottle to finish all items in the nose. Only have one small box of parts left now so about done with everything except the body work, my next task. Don't have a lot of body work experience but figure if I can learn the interior upholstery work I can learn how to do good body work as well. Know the doors will more than likely be the hardest thing to get right so will finish adding the last bit of parts and move on the body work.

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[jamesfr58]

Here are some pictures of the mechanically finished frame, still working on interior but need body back on now to finish the front tunnel and middle dash sections but as mentioned only have a small chase of parts left that go into the doors then I will be out of parts :D and getting closer to being done. Need to finally build the body buck so will make the trip to the lumber store which for me is at least a couple of hour drive to get needed materials. Here is what the GTM looks like now:

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Taken while still on lift, a walk around before the body goes back on for doors and interior work.

[Shoeless]

Thanks for posting the pics of where your door wires enter the frame. Thats easily done :cool:

I'm starting to run my wiring now and noticed your rear power cell is in the way back. Did you extend the cables to run them all the way up to your group of mega fuses in the front or did you move the mega fuse for this rear cell so you didn't have to extend the two power cables?

[jamesfr58]

No I don't remember having to extend them, but will be going down in a bit and will look to make sure. They were long enough to make it up to the location of the mega fuses is what I remember.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Maybe stupid question since I'm not that far ahead in my build and haven't looked that far in the build book in a bit, but I have started to run wiring as I'm waiting on a few things.

Where are you entering that square frame tube? I'm guessing I can just cut an entrance hole near where my power cells are located or wherever appropriate?

I'll have to lay out everything I plan for the doors, as you recommended, before I run them. Stereo speakers, window motor, door poppers.

As James already posted, wherever is convenient for your build is where I run the wires. On the majority of builds, I drill the holes into the bottom side of the tube right above the X in the tunnel....for the simple reason that on most builds, the window switch wiring and speaker wires are located right there in the center tunnel near the stereo. But with you having inMotion, you would either have to route the window wires to the tunnel or the speaker wires out to the inMotion controller......so might as well just make the holes where they are most convenient to you.

[jamesfr58]

Well think I got the last piece of equipment in the nose of the GTM. You would think they could make some of this easier by not waiting until the very last part of the manual to tell you need to install the washer bottle in an already packed nose of the GTM (guess that depends on how much stuff you cram in there) as some of getting to some of the areas needed to mount the pieces started to become almost impossible but still doable with a little magic! Had to relocate the 70amp painless fuse holder I used for the Dakota Digital fan controller but got it all in. Hope I don't need to fit anything else up there as I think I am out of room...…

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[jamesfr58]

Sean,

I did check and no I did not have to splice the wiring to the power cell in the rear of the car, there was enough wire to reach to the back with out a problem.

[Shoeless]

Sean,

I did check and no I did not have to splice the wiring to the power cell in the rear of the car, there was enough wire to reach to the back with out a problem.

Excellent, thanks James. Somehow mine seem a bit short. I’ll have to check in with Infinitybox and see if there was a mix up.

[beeman]

James-
I bought this for my GTM build, it is nice and compact. Cheap. Good reviews. No need for a gallon of washer fluid in a car that will rarely see rain... Cherry Coke not included.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NVFV883/ref=psdc_15734801_t1_B06XZZ8YJL

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61qfIaNdSgL._AC_SL1000_.jpg

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Beeman good information to know. It sure would have taken up less space but got the one that came with the car installed and wired already so for now guess I will leave it in but if I change my mind (which I do a lot) this is good information and I never thought to look around for replacement. Was thinking about body work, not dreading it but never done much of it either so new challenge. Just getting the body on and half way lined up is a challenge.

Did get entire body on the care today so no starting to really look like a car, a really rough car... But time to move on and fit the dash and build the doors then get busy on all the body work. Here is what she looks like now with the entire body on minus the doors.

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[LCD Gauges]

It's going together quick! Haven't been following the entire build, but from what I've seen, it's put together nicely.

Just wondering: do you want to trade garages? :D

[jamesfr58]

You have done a great job on you LCD systems as well they have come a long way in a short time. We could talk about trading shops but Wyoming a long way from Canada sort of.... I spent 3 years in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta and know you definitely need a good shop just t keep from freezing you parts off, the only way to work where it is winter 9 months our of the year. Sometimes not much better in Wyoming either, have seen -30 here but at least winter is usually only about 4 months long...….

[jamesfr58]

Took a while, no room to work easy but finally got he third brake light installed. This light will flash 3 time short then 3 time long before just being on with the brake lights.

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Still have all the door internals to build but did a first fit of the drivers side door. Need to trim some fiberglass where it is about 1/2" thick up by the roll bar in top corner wher door meets body on the passengers side to get the body all the down in place. But here is what it looks like just rough fit.

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Going to head down to the sun shine state tomorrow or a couple of weeks, wife want to visit Disney World, Universal Studios and take cruise so taking a little break before tacking the major body work at least I will be getting out of the cold for a while. We had 6 inches of fresh snow this morning and it is going to be in the single digits next week so good time to go.

[crash]

Took a while, no room to work easy but finally got he third brake light installed. This light will flash 3 time short then 3 time long before just being on with the brake lights.



Just a personal observation, but I can't stand those third brake lights. You probably aren't in much traffic in Wyoming, but for us city dwellers that get stuck behind a car with these type of brake lights in stop and go traffic...they are VERY annoying. So much so that if I am behind a Kia vehicle in the morning I make it a point to change lanes just so I don't have to be flashed constantly by their ridiculous flashy brake light! I think the new Subarus have them now as well? Third brake light? Good. Flashy third brake light? Not so much.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Just a personal observation, but I can't stand those third brake lights. You probably aren't in much traffic in Wyoming, but for us city dwellers that get stuck behind a car with these type of brake lights in stop and go traffic...they are VERY annoying. So much so that if I am behind a Kia vehicle in the morning I make it a point to change lanes just so I don't have to be flashed constantly by their ridiculous flashy brake light! I think the new Subarus have them now as well? Third brake light? Good. Flashy third brake light? Not so much.

I have to say that I have not seen this yet? I pray that this is not some new trend or result of some new Government regulation/requirement? I would have to agree with you. I'm not easily "triggered"....but one pet peeve is people who constantly apply their brakes on the interstate.....while sitting in the passing lane of course. I'm not a violent person, but I can predict that getting stuck behind one of these people on the interstate for more than a mile with a flashing 3rd brake light just might be what it takes to drive me over the edge.

[jamesfr58]

I can make it so it does not flash and just come on with the brakes, here is Wyoming as you mentioned there is not a lot of traffic but when slowing down to turn in the low GTM one might want to insure that one of the jacked up pickup trucks flying sown the road at a bare minimum of 80mph can see you in time enough to keep from changing your GTM into a compact. I do understand about the flashing brake lights and happen to agree so might just make it come on like the brakes lights. I can just leave the piece that makes it flash our and wire direct to the rear wire harness. There are a lot of up and down roads with blind curves here where I live in Wyoming and almost no one drives the speed limit as it takes hours just to get from one place to the other. Think for now will just make it a third brake light with no flash.

[Edgeman]

If you go with the Factory Five rims they have the right offset so you don't have to use the spacers. Just noticed them in the one picture.

[jamesfr58]

Edgeman

I had the rims made to fit the Wilwood Big Brakes and EDS racing rotors without the spacers and I have had them on that way, know they will fit. I put the spacers on because I thought they looked better as far as wheel spacing goes but I know I can remove them and the wheels will still work. Haven't decided how I want to leave them just yet figured I would get the body on and see how every thing looks then decided how I want them. The earlier pictures I posted showing how close the big brakes were to the rims show them in place without the spacers.

[jamesfr58]

Before I left on our trip I finished the wood inlay pieces for the interior. Used a pourable epoxy that self levels and coats to a thickness of about 45 coast of urethane. I wanted to get the done and let them sit to harden al the way before reinstalling switches and installing back in the interior. They can out better than I was expecting and have some really good depth to the look. Here are a few picture of the finished African Rosewood being used on my interior. They look better in real life but pictures not to bad.

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Different for the carbon fiber interiors but wanted or at least tried to give it a supercar look.....

[beeman]

Beautiful, I think you're the only one who has done wood inlays in a GTM build!

[jamesfr58]

Well, back out in the shop and getting started on the body work. Body is still on frame as I hope to fit a few pieces in place (roughed in) before removing the body again to make a few adjustments where the fiberglass is to heavy and will not allow the body to move around the roll cage properly. I started to trim and fit up the quarter window scoops supplied by Shane (VRaptor Speedworks) have the drivers side ready to be attached to the body and part of the passengers side done as well. The pictures are of the rough fit prior to attaching them to the body with adhesive. Hope to get these done and attached tomorrow and move on to fitting up the next items.

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[Shoeless]

Love the push button switches you incorporated into the wood inlays, very classy.

Where did you source the push buttons?

[jamesfr58]

Got them from Billet Buttons they are made and ship from Australia. Here is the website, and they can make custom buttons as well. It take a few days for them to get to you, about a week but they have really good service.

https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/#

[dlud]

Regarding the quarterwindow scoops: did you make a decision on scoops vs naca ducts based on the scoops being more effective for engine cooling or was it more of an aesthetic decision? If the former, is there any data available? I'm considering the scoops (and like the look better) but I seem to recall some talk that the naca ducts were more effective in this location.

[jamesfr58]

dlud,

To answer to the question, “what flows more air?” The answer is that the traditional scoop has higher mass flow rates.

Mass Flow Rate
NACA 0.53 kg/s
Scoop 0.98 kg/s

We drew up a CAD model of a NACA Duct and a traditional scoop with equal sized openings and other dimensions in a virtual wind tunnel. The difficult part here is that these are different designs and are meant for different applications, but by constraining the dimensions (even though in real life they may be a bit different) we are able to quantify efficiency results.

Initial setup to compare equally sized scoop and NACA Duct. As expected, the two ducts behave rather differently in identical environments. This is because the traditional scoop more or less ‘rams’ air into the opening and then redirects it, while the NACA Duct ‘sucks’ air in by creating a low pressure zone with the unique geometry.

Comparison of air flow through traditional scoop and NACA Duct. The answer is that the traditional scoop has higher mass flow rates.

Mass Flow Rate
NACA 0.53 kg/s
Scoop 0.98 kg/s

The NACA Duct flows 55% of the air that a traditional scoop flows under equal conditions. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the scoop is better though, it all depends on the application. While the scoop is able to force in more air, it leaves a nasty wake of turbulent air and drag.

In the end, one should take overall functionality into consideration. But if higher flow rates are necessary for added cooling for example, then a scoop may be the better option as long as it is not placed in a way that degrades the performance of aerodynamic components behind it. If you want more information I have a paper I can send you illustrating the differenced between the NACE Duct vs Traditional Scoop.

And I think they look better to address your second point, so I went with the scoops.

[jamesfr58]

With all that said the NACA not NACE as I typed above (NACE is a metallurgy acronym I use all the time in the refining industry) the NACA type ducts work well on the underside of the vehicle (the ones like Shane at VRaptor Speedworks) manufactures and sells at the underside is the low pressure side of air flow around the body and therefore due to the low pressure are allow good air flow into the tunnel area and push hot air back toward the engine compartment to assist in keeping the engine heat from migrating down the center tunnel.

[Shoeless]

Thanks for the heads up on the supplier for the buttons and awesome response on the scoop vs. duct. Gotta love building this car with fellow engineers :cool:

[dlud]

Thanks. That helps a lot!

[jamesfr58]

dlud,

Here is some of the data on traditional scoop vs NACA duct for all of those who would like to see the data. Hope it might help anyone who is looking at the differences or deciding which one if the two methods of moving air to might work best for them.

Initial setup to compare equally sized scoop and NACA Duct.
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Comparison of air flow through traditional scoop and NACA Duct.
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Low pressure pocket formed behind the traditional scoop
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Air density of flow though a traditional scoop and NACA Duct.
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Trajectory and pressure plot of flow around and behind a traditional scoop.
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Flow velocity through a traditional scoop and NACA Duct.
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[beeman]

Also, keep in mind that a scoop is always functional to some degree (assuming you are feeding an area where the ducting pressure does not exceed the air pressure feeding the scoop), while the NACA requires attached airflow to even function at all. You won't find attached airflow at the GTM 1/4 windows. You can probably make a 1/4 window NACA work if you are sucking air, ie feeding an engine intake, but in a case like that the NACA is probably no more efficient than a hole. But they do look cool.

[dlud]

Wow...appreciate you posting this. Scoops it will be for me!

[jamesfr58]

Well, back to the shop today to get the roof scoop cut down like I think it needs to be anyway, and fit on the roof. I have cut the hole in the roof and will fiberglass the opening to assist in maintaining a smooth air flow. When complete I will post some pitcure os the opening in the roof. Here is the roof scoop cut out and sitting on the centerline of the roof.

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This is what I am using to catch the dust from cutting and sanding the fiberglass, it works pretty good and has really kept the dust down. I just move the small black funnel end close tot he where I am working and you can see the dust line being sucked up and bagged.

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And as it always should be safety first, respirator for cutting and sanding with safety glasses or full face shied (I have both)or, in todays world this might also double as my travel gear next week with the new novel coronavirus going around !! Just joking a little but though you al might get a good laugh looking at my ugly mug in the gear I used to work fiberglass and body filler... Also good for hiding face when needed LOL

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[dlud]

I like your dust collector. What are you using for the vacuum source?

[jamesfr58]

It is a Wynn Dust Collector with a separate long hose I purchase because the collector does not come with a suction hose or the rectangular end shown in my picture. I go the hose and collector end from Amazon. Here is a picture of the one I purchased.

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[jamesfr58]

Moving ahead, tonight we go the hole through the roof, fiber glassed and painted flat black in preparation to attach the roof scoop. I cut through on 3 sides and scored the fourth long side so as to allow me to fold the section down forming a tunnel or ramp to assist the air flow into the engine compartment. I still need to make a few modifications to body where fiberglass is to thick and adjustment on the front of the body to get it to sit properly on the frame. the rear sits good but the front will have to make a few adjustments. Once the body id off again I will finish the roof scoop opening into the engine compartment and the inside of the 1/4 window fillers that will be installed under the 1/4 window scoops. Hopefully this will allow the from of the body to fit properly and then can move on to the doors. front clip and all the filling and sanding that needs to be done. Here is what my opening under the roof scope looks like before it gets covered up.

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[Shoeless]

Thanks for sharing this level of detail James. For a guy like me that has done no body work, this Is a topic I need a lot of learning on :cool:

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Sean for the comment, works been getting in the way lately but I am able to get down to the shop in the evening. Tonight still working on the roof scoop and preparing it for fiberglass before attaching to roof with panel bond and will finish with fiberglass.

Here the roof is with the gel coat removed exposing fiberglass to insure a good bond

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Edges of the roof scoop with the gel coat removed and sitting in place

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Finally, the scoop placed and centered with panel bond waiting until tomorrow to finish fiberglass work

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Hope this helps anyone who might be looking for an idea or different way to skin the cat as we all know there are many way to get to the same end building one of these GTM's

[Shoeless]

This is great stuff!!! I'm sure there are several examples of how to do this out there, I really need to research some more, but would you mind sharing your material names as you go along?

[jamesfr58]

Sean, you bet I can share the materials I am using. The panel bond agent I am using is 3M 8115 two part panel bonder, but you will need a special calking type device to dispense that can be purchased on Amazon or several other places. I works really well bonding the fiberglass parts. Here is link on Amazon but you can get it from any auto parts store or other places. Since I live in small town with almost nothing here I have to order almost everything on line....

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Adhesive-Manual-Applicator-Sticker/dp/B00KSF9TCW/ref=sr_1_2?hvadid=78408974427031&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=3m+8115&qid=1581529139&sr=8-2

[Shoeless]

Sean, you bet I can share the materials I am using. The panel bond agent I am using is 3M 8115 two part panel bonder, but you will need a special calking type device to dispense that can be purchased on Amazon or several other places. I works really well bonding the fiberglass parts. Here is link on Amazon but you can get it from any auto parts store or other places. Since I live in small town with almost nothing here I have to order almost everything on line....

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Adhesive-Manual-Applicator-Sticker/dp/B00KSF9TCW/ref=sr_1_2?hvadid=78408974427031&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=3m+8115&qid=1581529139&sr=8-2

Awesome!!!

[jamesfr58]

Well I hope and think I am getting the hang of doing the body work or at least I am trying. With the roof scoop on I decided to at least finish our the roof ready for high build primer before moving on as I have everything covered to work on the roof. So here are some pictures of the progress and my learning experience:

Removed the clamps holding scoop after attaching with 3M 8115 panel bond. Added a strip of fiberglass to the long edge to help attached and seal the outer edge of the scoop and roof seams ground down and first layer of Evercoat Rage Gold lightweight filler applied:

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Second skim coat of filler over the entire roof to form and smooth out waves on roof prior to spraying with High build primer. The roof now is smooth and make nice transition from scoop to outside edge. Still have some work to do on the scoop side:

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[jamesfr58]

Thought I would post this also, this is my body working cart that has everything I am using to do the body work on board. Built a rack to hold the spools of sand paper on the same side as the bin attached that holds my sanding blocks of various sizes and shapes:

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Also found a good use for my wife's old fitted sheets (the ones that go over the mattress) I have them over engine and in interior to catch all the dust and sanding shavings, they work great as the one in the interior I can get around the harness bar on one end and around the body front end and the elastic hold them in place and form a sort of bag and catch the shavings. The interior is really clean under the sheet and in the engine compartment it fits up around the two filters I have and the hood hinges then back to the frame at the rear of the car. Both do a good job of catching and holding the shavings. This the the one covering the interior shaped like a bowl:

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And just to show an idea, I built all the stand for the metal working equipment I have, albeit small it still take up a lot of room in shop if on separate stands of sitting floor when not in use. So I build these stands with casters that can be locked to keep them from moving and mounted the equipment on them. The good side is the can be rolled together, inside each other and take up very little space vs. having each piece on a stand that you would have to pick up to move around. At my age now I don't want to have to pickup anything to move it LOL :D

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[Edgeman]

Use a leaf blower to remove the last of the dust out of the garage. Best thing for getting the garage clean of all that dust.

[jamesfr58]

Had not thought of using leaf blower but makes more since than using the air hose that I have been using. It blower everything everywhere, but the leaf blower with low pressure air would work better to get dust headed out the door without bowing it up into the air as well. Thanks for the tip, never thought about using anything else besides the air hose!!

[jamesfr58]

Back to the adventure of body work 101, or my steep learning curve as today I was back at it the shop before leaving for a week on business. I got all the seams on the body ready for filler and finished the work on the drivers side roof blending the scoop into the roof. Here is today's progress:

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Think I have gotten the scoop molded into the the roof with nice curve and does not look to bad. Shane or anyone else if you have any ideas or if you see that I am doing something not quite right please let me know. This is my first time at doing body work and not sure what can or should not be done. As you can see in the pictures although the roof has food smooth curve and transitions to scoop like I though it should I do have exposed fiberglass smoothed and not sure what effect that will have on the paint. Will take any and all advice before I get to far along. Thanks

[Presto51]

Back to the adventure of body work 101, or my steep learning curve as today I was back at it the shop before leaving for a week on business. I got all the seams on the body ready for filler and finished the work on the drivers side roof blending the scoop into the roof. Here is today's progress:

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Think I have gotten the scoop molded into the the roof with nice curve and does not look to bad. Shane or anyone else if you have any ideas or if you see that I am doing something not quite right please let me know. This is my first time at doing body work and not sure what can or should not be done. As you can see in the pictures although the roof has food smooth curve and transitions to scoop like I though it should I do have exposed fiberglass smoothed and not sure what effect that will have on the paint. Will take any and all advice before I get to far along. Thanks

James,

Since you asked, what I see from your pictures: When you see spots come through the filler, those usually mean they are high spots, and you stopped at a good place. You will want to add another layer of filler to the whole area, guide coat and block some more. When you block down to where you either see, no guide coat, or raw fiberglass,, and red gel coat popping through again, stop block sanding, blow the dust off, with a flat palm of you hand, (no finger tipping allowed) feel in long strokes to see if you can feel any waves.

The area at the rear of the scoop it looks like a rather large void in the fiberglass, fill the deep hole with reinforced filler. After that you can use your regular filler to smooth out the back side.

The left front of the scoop looks like there is areas of shiny black gel coat, you would want to rough it up some more before adding any filler.

Last thing I would like to mention, make sure that there is no loose, hard, edges around your repair. ( edges of the fiberglass to scoop that did not adhere and stick up. Try to feather then back to a spot with they make a smooth transition)

You doing OK just keep blocking, add filler where there is low spots, guide coat, block some-more, repeat as necessary. When all the hard work is over and your GTM is painted you can knock back some adult beverages and really enjoy the fruits of hard labor, like my friend Michael and I did https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12060-Revealing-Photos-of-GTM-327-!

Yes that is shameless plug but you can see what is possible.:cool:

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Ron

Thanks for the advise and you GTM looks great. I have filled the back of the scoop now and finished passengers side as well as far as I intend to go now. I have to remove the body again to make a few adjustments so I am only taking the body work so for for now. I do intend to coat it again one last time and have ordered some thinner for the filler that should make it easier to skin coat and final sand. I also ordered some of the guide power (was told it was better than paint) to use when I am putting the the final skim coat of filler to hopefully make it smooth (no wave is my hope) as you mentioned you can feel some waves but wanted to get basic shaping done first. The entire scoop is roughed up now and i still have some work to do in the front area but the basic shape is complete. Here are some updated pictures prior to final skim coat and sanding with some close ups of the rear of the scoop.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

We do go about installing the roof scoop a bit different here. I never apply fiberglass mat/resin over anything on the exterior of the car. The roof scoop is normally solid all the way to the front of the roof and we leave it that way other than just cutting the opening for the scoop. There is normally a lip on the leading edge of the scoop that extends into the windshield opening and we cut that lip off and just flush the edge of the scoop with the edge of the roof. We cut the sides of the scoop panel down so that there is about a 1" strip on each side of the scoop that contacts the roof, and we take that 1" strip and feather it down to a knife edge. Then we get the scoop positioned on the roof exactly where we want it, drill thru the edges into the roof and cleco the roof scoop right to the roof....placing the clecos wherever needed to hold the scoop tight to the roof. Then trace around the scoop, remove it and rough up the bottom of the scoop and the top of the roof where the scoop makes contact with the roof with 36 grit. We also block the whole roof with 180 grit. Clean everything up and bond the roof scoop on with 3M 8115.....paddle the 8115 into any and all voids along the edges so that it is one solid piece when cured. Once it's cured, remove the clecos, rough up all of the cured/exposed 8115 with 80 grit and apply a strip of short strand fiberfill body filler where the scoop transitions to the roof...where the filler would be the thickest (and also force that down into the cleco holes). Block that down and from there, we pretty much skim coat the entire roof from the door openings up to the roof scoop (also covering the fiberfill we just applied) with lightweight body filler and block the whole thing down.

[jamesfr58]

Well back in town still working more that I want at times but got some time to go back to the shop and attempt to figure out this body work stuff. This was the one thing besides the upholstery I have never done. Got the upholstery more or less figured out and it has been going good, but this body work is a challenge.

Ron thanks again for the kind words and input on how to work the body for painting. And have to thank Shane as well, you have a better way to attach the roof scoop that the way I did it. It will come out like I want it but did cause myself some extra work. It was already on when I read you response but was good to know and shows all of us a different and sometime better way of getting to the same end.

I finished shaping, filling any small voids where i is attached to the roof with 8115 and ruffed up the hood scoop, here is what it looks like for the front now.

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The roof is ready for a glaze finishing coat so I started to work on the back half of the GTM and have the rear flat deck done, filled and ready for finishing coat. Here is what it looked like filled, then with a black powder guide coat and final blocking. Came out nice and only had a couple of places very small I added some Metal Coat Glaze to fill up small dips by the cut outs for eh rear wing.

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This picture show the back deck, the side seam blocked and ready for finishing glaze to the roof on one side, have not started the other side. But notice the floor, you cant see the colored tiles under the car. I knew this would be messy and I have a dust collector and shop vac i have been using but dang never thought there would be this much dust I would say around 1/2 gallon of Rage Ultralight on the floor......

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[Presto51]

" I knew this would be messy and I have a dust collector and shop vac i have been using but dang never thought there would be this much dust I would say around 1/2 gallon of Rage Ultralight on the floor......

Yes body and paint work is very messy, indeed. Lol

As an FYI: Have you mocked up the hatch with the glass on it? The last GTM I helped out on the fitment of the hatch, with the hatch glass to the quarter panels was interesting and challenging to say the least.

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Ron, yes I have had the hatch on and operation but still need to ensure I have even and same clearance around the hatch. I removed it to make it easier to reach inside the body to work on side scoops etc. but will put it back on shortly. By the way thanks again for the advice and support....

As others have mentioned, it is really good idea to look for voids in the fiberglass body. Here is one I found on the edge where the hatch flange is and will fill it now that I have it dug out to good material.

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Here is the side scoop at the 1/4 window on the drivers side fit up before being made permanent. I have the 1/4 window banks in place and need to finish filling, sanding and will paint the inside flat black before the are permanently attached but this give me a good idea of what they will look like when attached.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

On your first photo there....yes, if you're not doing this on your body, you need to. We take a chisel and drag it across ALL of the radiused edges of the body....around the grille openings, wheel vent openings, roof edges, wheel arches, door sill area, hatch opening, door openings, side scoop openings......anywhere there is a tight radius on the body. We just drag the edge of the chisel (not cutting into or scratching the gelcoat....just putting pressure on the edge and dragging it opposite the direction you would use it to cut) and listening carefully. If you get to a spot where you hear a crackling sound, it means you just dragged over a void. Back up and use the chisel to dig the void out. Sometimes you'll just hear the crackle sound and sometimes the chisel point will literally fall right into the void and break it open. Dig out all loose material, rough up the surface and fill.

On the quarter window scoop install, I do those much the same way as the roof scoop. Once you have it fitted to the body (looks like you have an excellent fit there!) rough up the perimeter (inside and outside) about 3/4" back on the part from the edge with some 36 grit....do that everywhere the scoop meets the body. Rough up the area of the body where it makes contact with 36 grit. Wipe everything down with degreaser. Put a bead of 8115 around the perimeter of the part and work the epoxy into the fiberglass (I use a wood craft stick). Lay a tall bead of 8115 on the body where the scoop contacts the body. Carefully set the scoop in place on the body and get it cleco'd down (just like you have it) anywhere that it wants to spring away from the body. Try not to slide the part around....just set it exactly in place and cleco it down. Take craft stick around the perimeter and trowel the 8115 around all of the edges so the adhesive is overlapping the edge, creating sort of a fillet weld from the scoop to the body. I do this all the way around, along the inside and outside of the scoop opening as much as I can......or put on a rubber glove and smear some on the inside of the opening with your finger. Leave it set overnight and pull the cleco's out the next day and finish off with bodyfiller where needed.

[jamesfr58]

Shane,
Thanks for the advice and tips, I was checking but your method edges for voids along with other thin areas but you method will work better than the way I was trying to find them. I have both of the side scoops on the car now and will need to finish blending them in to the body. Not sure how I want to do this or what they should like when blended into the roof line. I know its builders choice but I know you have done just a few of these. Got any word of wisdom or maybe picture before painted?

Anyway here is what the look on the car. The fist picture is where I primed and painted flat black under the side scoop prior to attaching to the car. Don't know is you can see the pencil lines but I put the side scoop up tote car and drew a line around the outside, then drew a second line about 1/4 inside the first line. Used this line to mask off and paint inside flat black. Used 40 grit to rough it up prior to painting where the scoop will be attached with 8115. Had to use #6 screws to to hold in place, my cleco's were just barely lone enough and they kept popping out. The screws are the same size hole so worked great and still have the same size hole to fill.

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This view is looking front to back down the drives side at the roof and side scoop for overall look.

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[jamesfr58]

Shane

Thanks for the tip on a better way to find the voids in the fiberglass. Still working on the back of the car and after reading your method of locating the voids I when down to the shop yesterday and started checking the rear section. I would like to tell everyone Shane's method described above really work well and I had no trouble finding 2 more voids on the edge at the rear of the car. These two were right next to each other and could not be seen by looking for them but with the chisel method running the edge I found them easy. For anyone starting the body make sure you check these edges there will be voids that need to be repaired or they will show up later after painting, they were just under the surface as mentioned hard to see with the eye but easy to pop through once you find them.

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Finished attaching the side scoops, here is what they look like with a good fillet bead of 8115 ready for final shaping and blending into the body.

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[Shoeless]

Looking good James!!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Shane,
Thanks for the advice and tips, I was checking but your method edges for voids along with other thin areas but you method will work better than the way I was trying to find them. I have both of the side scoops on the car now and will need to finish blending them in to the body. Not sure how I want to do this or what they should like when blended into the roof line. I know its builders choice but I know you have done just a few of these. Got any word of wisdom or maybe picture before painted?

As I mentioned above, I trowel the 8115 into a fillet weld of epoxy around the outer perimeter of the scoop......looking very similar to what you have there. Once cured, I sand down the high spots with sandpaper wrapped around a craft stick and fill in the low spots in much the same way.....make a body filler application tool from a craft stick, so I'm working with the same profile and skim coat that whole fillet weld area with lightweight bodyfiller and then go back with my craft stick with sandpaper stuck to it and finish sanding that area down. I keep the original profile and radiused edge of the body around that side scoop area and just basically massage that radiused fillet weld into a smooth transition. I don't have any pics handy of a close-up of that specific area....

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Shane, I did you to your website and looked at a blown up picture of one you did but the above mentioned method brings it all into focus now. I have been working on the back hatch while think about a couple of other items I want to change. The hatch was on once before but here I have gone back and started to get a pretty good rough fit of the hatch. Used masking tape to lay out the gap and fix the flange it sit in, you can see the tape on the hatch that I used as guide to grind down outside edge. The gap is stating to look good but will need tome fine tuning...

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Here it is with the back glass window sitting in place on the hatch. I do not intend to use the glass but instead am using the aluminum hatch glass replacement that Shane at VRaptor Speedworks came up with that is louvered. I put it together last night and here is what it look like before it is set on the car. This should let a lot of heat out of the engine compartment and I think will look good as well.

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[jamesfr58]

Finished the aluminum cover, used the 3M 8115 as recommended by Shane (VRaptor Speedworks) to make fillets on each connection between the braces the the cover fins themselves. It really worked out well and is very simple to build and shape. I have several items incorporated in my build that were fabricated by Shane, and would recommend to anyone the parts he has developed over the years having built over 30 GTM for customers. They add to the functionality and design of the GTM and for me this has been great to have some one who has built and developed these part that Chance our builds.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks for the kind words! That alum hatch panel should make a pretty huge difference in engine bay temps. You have a really amazing build going on there....something you'll be able to brag about for sure!

[jamesfr58]

Well here it is the Aluminum hatch cover in place of the glass. It is just sitting on the hatch right not but the fit is good and I need to modify one of the curves on the passenger’s side before the hatch flattens out as it is to tight and does not match the curve on the driver side or the shape of the body itself for it to sit all the way down on the hatch.

Here the cover is sitting on the hatch

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Looking through the cover and the site line through the car is very good, the rear view is not obstructed in any way.
A side view of the cover sitting on the hatch

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And a view from the side

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Again, will have to give a shout out to Shane this is great option and will allow heat to escape the rear engine compartment.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks! That's going to look great.....and as you pointed out, the nice part (compared to the glass) is that you can trim the edges to fit and curve the panel as-needed instead of being stuck with the fixed shape and curve of the glass.

[beeman]

Looking great, James!
Are you going to blend the aluminum into the fiberglass or keep a seam around the aluminum?
Thanks again to Shane for another great GTM product.

[jamesfr58]

I am planning on blending it into the fiberglass right now but you know how it goes as we move along building the GTM we go from plan A to at least plan E if luck before we decide ti right....:p

[jamesfr58]

Well since traveling is out of the question I have had a lot more time to work on the GTM so been in the shop every day this week. Since I have most all of the parts might stay home and keep building. I got the box to french in the third brake light done and installed today. It is just ruffed in now, still have to fiberglass from behind and would like to find a way to make the cutout match the light better, fit more to the shape of the light. Have an idea might try tomorrow but for now this is what it looks like set back so the light does not protrude beyond the back of the car. It is a small space to the thin light worked well. Had to trim the flange of light as it was designed to be flush mounted and the flange would stick out beyond the back of the car.

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[jamesfr58]

Found a way to cast the light in place using some 1/8 inch upholstery foam, masking tape and forming in place with Evercoat Metal Glaze. Positioned the light and cast around it in place.

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Knew I could not get material to the back of the form holding the light so use the 1/8 in. foam to back the Metal Glaze and just formed the front section. Pulled the light and filled behind the formed section, so now the light is in place and still have to finishing work to complete but ended up closing the gaps and forming to the light .

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[jamesfr58]

Well to finish the tale of the recessed third break light, I thought I would leave you all with this, just what it took to make this one little change. I estimate I have 12 hours from start to finish, still learning this body work but will try anything once and when finished it came out pretty good. Hard to believe this took so long and maybe if I was better at body work it would not have but at least I got it done and looking like I wanted it.

To start with I purchased a universal third brake light and had to cut the flange off the outside edge so it was slim line and I could recess the light. Then built a fiberglass 3-sided case for the light to be glassed into the body, cut the rear of the car and fiber glassed the box into the body. Once that was done, I installed the light and needed to mold it in place to match the contour of the light. Then remove the light and finish filling in the box to match the light, fill and sand, fill and sand and fill and sand multiple times. Until finally it looks like the picture attached of the light recessed into the body with even spacing around the light. And the moral of this story…….

While we all want our build to be the best it can be, designed like we want, it is sure is a lot of work sometime for the small little items that set it a part from others and make our dream come true…..

Well worth all the trouble, sore hands working with the small pieces of sandpaper, small filler applicator, craft sticks, files and dermal tool. Now on to the next item!

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[beeman]

Yes, things like that add quite a bit of time to a build, but really make yours stand out in the GTM community. It's one thing to slap a kit together like a big puzzle, but customization shows you put your heart into it. Personally, I think that the rear end of the GTM could use some beautification as delivered, things like your 3rd brake light really take it to the next level. Keep up the great work!

[Edgeman]

Just a thought putting your 3rd brake light in the wing. Also for side marker lights the Aston Martin vantage lights are a great fit. Check out the link.

https://edgemansgtm.weebly.com/body-fitting-2.html

[beeman]

James is doing an elevated APR type wing so he had to do it where it is.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102147&d=1550121830

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for tip Edgeman, have been looking at different side marker lights but had not looked at these yet. looking for something on the smaller side that will not stick out from the body or that I can recess to the body has clean lines when completed. Thanks again for the tip.

[jamesfr58]

Beeman

Yea I tend to agree on the rear end, trying to make it look a close as possible to a production car or at least not like a quick build kit car. Having a blank canvas to work from, you can dream up all sorts of things some good and as I have found out some bad but has been fun seeing what can be done to make it mine and improve the looks. After spending countless hours just starring at it and imagining what could be not to mention the really long time building the car like everyone here they all what that personal touch and that is what make it interesting. And your build, well it's off the wall and very interesting the thing you have modified and done. I for one have enjoyed following your journey to reinvent the car like no one else I have seen. Keep up the good work and we will keep reading.

[jamesfr58]

Been in the shop again as not going anywhere opens up a lot of free time. Started blending in the 1/4 window scoops and working on the hatch area. Shane's advice on using craft sticks really works great, so thanks for the advice go it done in one try with only 1 low spot. In fitting the hatch I had the same issue as others with the passengers side of the hatch fitting as it should. You can see where I sanded through the fiberglass using a dremel tool opening up that side to fit the hatch, will have to re-glass and do some build up in area not sanded but got it roughed in and will continue to work the hatch before I attache the aluminum hatch cover on the fiberglass hatch.

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[Edgeman]

The side markers fit the contour of the car perfect. I just 3M 8115 on the back side, worked out like an OEM fit. A lot of them are not DOT approved and to pass inspection these were one that would.

[jamesfr58]

Got the rear hatch reinstalled and adjusted to final fit up. Still need to work on the gaps around the hatch but till finish installing the aluminum hatch cover before I finish setting the gaps. Here is the the hatch in place with good clearance now with the body and operating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVV5dYxXqEM

Got it adjusted so you can close with one finger and a little pressure as you can see. Below are some separate photos of the aluminum cover and the fit as it is now. Will keep working on the gaps, trimming and adding fiberglass to the body once the aluminum cover is in permanently in place.

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The intent is to blend the aluminum cover into the hatch when installed for what I hope is seamless look. Again have to thank Shane at VRaptor as it look like this will greatly reduce the amount of body work required to match the aluminum hatch cover up with body verses matching the glass window to the body. Will post some pictures of the finished hatch cover when complete.

[jamesfr58]

Here is the video with out having to go to you tube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVV5dYxXqEM

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The intent is to blend the aluminum cover into the hatch when installed for what I hope is seamless look. Again have to thank Shane at VRaptor as it look like this will greatly reduce the amount of body work required to match the aluminum hatch cover up with body verses matching the glass window to the body. Will post some pictures of the finished hatch cover when complete.

I always dread trying to fit the glass to body on these cars. Depending on how much material I have to take out of the body to create clearance, I have been taking a pie cut out of the body around the hatch opening (cutting the "drip rail" off of the body) and then bonding the drip rail back on. Trimming some thin aluminum to fit the body is much easier than trimming the body to fit the glass! Looks like you have things fitting and working great!

[jamesfr58]

Getting a few things done as staying at home is in style now. I fabricated a new hatch latch pin bracket as the on from FFR did not have enough adjustment for me so I made a new on from aluminum angle that set the pin back just a little over the bent version and kept it from touching the body as it just barely cleared if you were careful closing the hatch so made this new on and it works much better and has some adjustment on the height of the pin.

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Fabricated the hatch louvers from VRaptor Speedworks, they went together easy and fit perfectly in the cut out from the factory with only slight shaping of fiberglass. Used cleco’s to hold it to the fiberglass hatch until the 3M 8115 dries.

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Here is view of the aluminum hatch cover in place in the hatch looking through it toward the front and from the front looking through the back and out the rear. As you can see, when in position you can see through the louvers with virtually no obstructions. I know I mentioned this before, the aluminum hatch cover is also from VRaptor and Shane thanks again.

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[jamesfr58]

After multiple adjustment on the hatch hinges, the aluminum hatch cover is now in place. Below are some picture of the hatch and the clearances around the hatch and body. As you will note the aluminum hatch just barely fits between the driver’s side and passengers side of the body, which is good thing as I can make adjustments by removing some of the edge on the aluminum hatch cover and get a good gap around the hatch with very little fiberglass work or the amount of work required to match up the glass.

The gap is pretty much closed on both the driver’s and passenger’s side so will remove some aluminum to get approx. 3/16" gap.

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This is the gap at the top next to the roof line. As the hatch opens it closes to about 1/8" before lifting away as the hatch swings back away from the roof. And the corner of the hatch, it sits just above the body with the hatch open.

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Here is the hatch in its final resting place prior to attaching with urethane wind adhesive.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very nice! Does the leading edge of the alum seem to match the rear of the roof fairly well?.....in other words...does the gap across the leading edge stay roughly the same or did you have to grind the outside corners back to move the whole panel forward to close the gap in the center? I don't have a GenII body here to test fit, and I know that is a problem with the factory glass....you end up really tight at the outside corners and have a huge gap in the center?

[jamesfr58]

Shane,

I did not trim anything on the panel yet it is just as you sent it to me. The gap along the leading edge does stay the same or with in 1/16th+ inch the same across the leading edge. The span from fender to fender is tight but it still fits down on the hatch and I will have to lay out with trim tape (the 1/4" stuff I use as a guide) the edges on each finder side and remove some aluminum material to set the gaps but it really fit well and as you mentioned will greatly reduce the amount of work required to finish the hath and make it match the body and give you a little leeway on juts how you want the back hatch to fit. I plan on blending it into the body (hatch) to make a smooth transition from the aluminum to the fiberglass, or at least that is my plan now.

Bottom line it worked out really great and I think it adds to the look as you can still see engine through the cover with the side befit of letting heat our of the engine compartment. I would recommend this to anyone building a GTM looking for an option for the hatch window glass. You did a great job on the cut out and was easy to build. Thanks again.

[beeman]

I think you're absolutely right, James. I have the same glass replacement piece coming from Shane, as soon as I figure out what louver pattern I want...

[jamesfr58]

Again, I need to give credit where credit is due, this is a great option for the back glass from VRaptor Speedworks (Shane) and he had done a exceptions job on making this aluminum hatch cover very easy to install and work with compared to working with the glass and the amount of body work required, not to mention giving you the ability to remove heat from the engine bay.

Been working to set the gap on the hatch cover and I can tell you that it was relatively easy compared to the amount to ow work required to get the glass to match up with the body. You can work both the fiberglass body side to straighten the edges and the aluminum hatch cover side to set the gap. Below are pictures of the gaps around the hatch cover, and as you can see, I worked both the fiberglass and the aluminum side. The aluminum hatch cover is attached to the fiberglass hatch with window urethane sealant.

Drivers Side
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Passengers Side
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View from rear of car
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This is a video of a walk around on the thatch cover so you can get a good idea on the fit. I plan on blending it into the body and will show everyone what that look like when completed. Needless to say, I have a lot of time to work on it now so getting some things done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY3EM09rmcg

[beeman]

You are moving along nicely, keep it up!
I was supposed to be in Hilton Head with the family this week, we're on the homestead so I've been sneaking out to the shop to knock some things out. 33 degrees here, 75 in Hilton Head...

[jamesfr58]

Was 16 low and 27 high in Wyoming yesterday but going to be around 50 today go figure. Yea we would be down south in Arizona of Nevada doing so side by side riding this time of year but staying close to homestead in Wyoming for now. Oh making the best of the situation we in for now and at least I have something to do besides watching what is going on nationally.

[jamesfr58]

Mounted the hatch popper on the flange for the hatch. Build a plate with two studs welded to the plate a ground flush on one side. The plate was attached to the flange with 8115 and rivets as the heads can be made flatter and the gasket will sit on top of them. Here is w view from the back side and from the hatch side.

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Also laid out he rear wheel vents and cutting them out. My little Dremel tool worked great with thin steel blade to cut these out.

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[dlud]

And since I had the transmission out I decided to look for better mating flanges for the CV joints. Not sure is anyone else has had any problems with this but the normal Porsche CV joint mating flanges for the year of Porsche transmission I have are very hard if not impossible to keep the CV joint boot in place. I tried the normal crimp on bands and now have bands that tighten like hose clamps. The boot would eventually pop off the mating flange given enough time and movement. So I set out the find a better mating flange design and ran across this on shown in a side by side comparison. The aftermarket mating flange has a lip and grove to help keep the CV joint boot on the flange and they appear to work great. I wanted to get this done since the tranny was out and access was fairly simple. Thought I would pass this along as they really din make a big difference and now I don't have to worry the CV boot will pop off the mating flange.

115089

The one on the left is the normal mating flange with CV boot attachment you would get for sat Pelican Parts, the one on the right is the new ones I found on Parts Geek that have a groove and ridge on the mating flange for the clamp to fit into with the ridge keeping the whole thing in place.

You wouldn't happen to have the part # for this flange. I searched Parts Geek and couldn't find it. Thanks!

[jamesfr58]

dlud

Here is the information on the companion flanges; 2002 Porsche 911 CV Joint Companion Flange Price: $29.87 Qty: 2 Part #: W0133-2746870 I checked to make sure it worked and it takes you to the companion flanges.

[dlud]

Thanks!

[jamesfr58]

Ok I must admit Shane (VRaptor Speedworks) is more than right when it comes to the hatch hinges and the hydraulic cylinders they send to use with the hatch. Since I decided to run my cold air intake different than the way FFR does and in my case, I needed to as the space was taken up with other electronics and equipment so needed to find a better way. And, since I am not using the glass but Shane’s aluminum hatch cover glass replacement, I was having an issue with the hatch flexing especially when you went to close it. It takes some force on the hatch until the hinges break the opposite way and this is causing the flex and the aluminum hatch cover to separate from the fiberglass when using window urethane to attach the aluminum cover.

I purchased a set of hatch hinge attachments from Shane but in the end, they would not fit with the 4” CAI tubes in the way. Shane had mentioned turning them around, but they still would not work but I needed a better way to keep hatch open than using the hydraulic cylinders. So today I went down to the shop to figure out how I could modify and use the hatch hinge pieces I got from Shane.

After many hours of looking at the problem and trying several different things I settled on modifying the pieces. Here is a picture of both sides, the one on the top is the design Shane sent and the one on the bottom is the pieces modified and will be installed backwards from the way they were designed. Had to narrow the longer aluminum arm to clear the CAI tubes and will have to relocate them down a little but they will still be in the same location. Even though they are cut down the aluminum hatch cover is much lighter than the glass and they are still heavy enough to hold the hatch open.

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Got one side done and installed, had to modify a small portion of the spacing and bolting at the hatch hinge itself where it attached to when the arm swings down it missed the bolt head on the hatch hinge. Here is what it looks like of the hatch and it is holding the hatch up…

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool! Sometimes you gotta get creative. I'm glad you were able to modify those and get them to work for you.

[Presto51]

" I was having an issue with the hatch flexing especially when you went to close it. It takes some force on the hatch until the hinges break the opposite way and this is causing the flex and the aluminum hatch cover to separate from the fiberglass when using window urethane to attach the aluminum cover."

Even though you overcame the force/stress factor, you might want to consider switching out the window urethane, to an epoxy designed to bond aluminum to fiberglass to eliminate the two from separating in the future.

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Ron, I was planning and have removed the urethane along the edges back until it was solid and used pushed bonder into the space and re-clamped, it is drying now and should do the trick. Thanks for the tip and here is what the modified hatch props look like after I completed the other side and the are hold the hatch up. They look a little different that you designed the Shane but had to modify to make the thinner over the CAI tubes and the end that bolts to the hatch hing needed to clear the hex head screw used to assemble the hing. I might even change the hex head bolt for a standard bolt to gain just a little more room.

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[jamesfr58]

Really need to check my grammar better when it get late at night. Meant to say:

They look a little different than you designed them Shane, but had to modify to make the arm over the CAI tube thinner and the end that bolts to the hatch hing modified to clear the hex head screw used to assemble the hing.

Only slept about 2 hours last night, grand daughter here as I shows....:p

[Shoeless]

HAHA no worries on the grammar. I'm going a little nuts myself working from the house full time now. They finally got our VPN upgraded to handle the full load of Pratt & Whitney employees across the globe. I'm glad I ended up on the "priority" VPN so I can still get things done.

I think I need to take a walk around the house just to get outside for a minute LOL.

[jamesfr58]

Sean

Doing the same thing using a VDR with the data for separate locations, so when my eyes bug out I go down to the shop for a while but still come back up and do a little more work into the night as nothing better to do. If it would get warmer and stay that way I would get out side some more as we live on acreage with no one around but us. Temperature have been crazy, it was 60 2 days ago so pretty nice for a day then back down to 30's and some snow again. Hope spring comes soon getting tired of winter as well as being more or less locked down.

[jamesfr58]

Today's progress report and because I could not help myself, with the aluminum hatch cover on I had to see how the engine looked through the hatch cover with my engine bay LED light on. So here is a picture of two of different colors under the aluminum hatch cover. The LED’s are multi-color with different lighting patterns controlled by remote.

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Finished the install on the hatch popper and got it wired up.

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Also I have been working on blending the aluminum hatch cover into the body. It is almost complete, just have some edge work to finish but it looks pretty good.

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Also still working on the 1/4 window scoops to finish them out. This is the passengers side scoop I am working on now to hope to have a finished product with the next coat. Have it basically shaped and with the second coat I intend to blend them into the rear fender.

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That's all for today report, from the imposed social distancing, hiding in my shop which by the way is good distance from wife. Haven’t yet figured if this is good or bad, but with the new rules thought I would try it out. LOL :p

[jamesfr58]

Getting my exercise at home now, doing this body work is really a lot of work, physical work. Not sure I haven't worn my shoulders out already but have to keep going anyway. Lots and lots of sanding, filling sanding then do it all over again but it is starting to take shape. Still working the seam up front and prepping the body for the glaze coat to begin blocking. Want to again mention as I know Shane mentioned to check the fiberglass body for holes, bubbles on the edges of the mold or other places. Here is a close up of a big hole that was not on the seam or on the edge but in the middle of the part that will need to be fixed and filled from the back side.

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some pictures of prepping the body for glaze and blocking all the shiny gel-coat gone in some place and roughed ready for first coat of glaze. Still have more to do and will start working the doors today as well. I am going to have to sand a while then work on something else or I might not be able to move my shoulder after a week of sanding. LOL :p

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[Shoeless]

Is that you inReserve button in the last pic above the wheel? I need to get mine mounted and was thinking similar location.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

You will want your inReserve button mounted somewhere accessible. On cars where we install our Side Scoop Louvers, I always install the button in the top louver blade on the driver's side so that you can walk up to the car, reach into the scoop opening and power up the car. Having to figure out how to pop the hood every time you go to drive the car is going to be a real pain IMO. There is no real reason to "hide" the button. If you arm/lock the car with the fob, then hit the inReserve to power it down.....the system will still be armed/locked when you power it back up....so even if someone sees you push the button in a parking lot to power the car down, it's not going to do them any good to know that switch is there.

[Shoeless]

You will want your inReserve button mounted somewhere accessible. On cars where we install our Side Scoop Louvers, I always install the button in the top louver blade on the driver's side so that you can walk up to the car, reach into the scoop opening and power up the car. Having to figure out how to pop the hood every time you go to drive the car is going to be a real pain IMO. There is no real reason to "hide" the button. If you arm/lock the car with the fob, then hit the inReserve to power it down.....the system will still be armed/locked when you power it back up....so even if someone sees you push the button in a parking lot to power the car down, it's not going to do them any good to know that switch is there.

I like your approach here Shane, I think I'll be doing that.

[jamesfr58]

Sean

Yes it is my inReserve button, yo have to reach just over the tire to reach it, but should be able to reach without opening the front. Although Shane's idea is also a good place and I am sure easier to reach. I just did not think of that and seemed to be good place to locate it as I had not made provisions early on and add it when wiring was complete after seeing how fist the battery went down. But Shane is right you really don't have to hide the button, it was just a handy location for me with less wiring work required to make the change from the manual cut off I had under the front hood so this was where I located the button.

[Shoeless]

Sean

Yes it is my inReserve button, yo have to reach just over the tire to reach it, but should be able to reach without opening the front. Although Shane's idea is also a good place and I am sure easier to reach. I just did not think of that and seemed to be good place to locate it as I had not made provisions early on and add it when wiring was complete after seeing how fist the battery went down. But Shane is right you really don't have to hide the button, it was just a handy location for me with less wiring work required to make the change from the manual cut off I had under the front hood so this was where I located the button.

Thanks for the feedback James.

[jamesfr58]

Relocated the CAI, it is in the same configuration but moved a little so the hatch props had enough room between them and the CAI tubes. You can see in the picture where they were as I cut the ears off the frame and will clean the frame up when I take the body off to make some fiberglass repairs from the inside shortly. But I was able to get the CAI installed with the hatch props and have good clearance.

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But there is going to be some creative metal (aluminum) work to close off the wheel well as the tubes cross two of the rear wheel close out panels so more to come when I get this figured out.....

Took a picture of the overflow/holding tank for the coolant that was located on the frame in the rear of the car (the one Crash sells) to show that you can reach the cap and see the fluid level with the hatch open on the props.

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[jamesfr58]

Here is yesterdays and today's progress on building the side scope louvers from Shane (VRaptor Speedworks) and getting them installed. Took quite while to fit it into place like I wanted them to look and since I cut the hole to large (should have built the louvers first) had to make a few repairs along the way. But I have the driver’s side installed temporary for now and 3M 8115 in the outside on the find on the inboard side now with it held in place. Just need some body work to smooth everything out and it will be ready to go. Here are a few pictures with the last on showing the K&N air filter on the CAI behind the louvers.

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[jamesfr58]

Got one of the side scoop louver install completed with required body work. Have the second on roughed in and will complete the install on it tomorrow. Thought I post picture of VRaptors side scoop louver as it looks when assembled and ready for install and here it the drivers side complete with body work and shaping of the inside of the side scoop complete. Have to keep busy doing something these days so who know might get more done on the GTM than I thought I would and maybe ready for paint in a few months......maybe!!

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very nice! You've been making really good progress.

[jamesfr58]

Update, I have no fingerprints left after all the sanding, but thought I add an update on my progress. I have a lot of time to ready the forum these days and it give me something to read beside the bad news on the internet.

I finished the install of the side louvers from VRaptor Speedworks here is the passenger’s side installed.

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Started to look at installing the Diffuser and working with a set of Between the Strakes louvers and the new Gen II Diffuser grill with square cut out for the back up camera again from VRaptor Speedworks. I have figured out how to mount the back up camera, trial fit done. Have the first plate bent to match the rear of the body and ready to install. Will figure just how I want the Diffuser louvers to look, cut the holes, mount them and the fins prior to installing Diffuser and the Diffuser grill. Think I will make it so the Diffuser is screwed in so it can be removed if needed.

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Also still working on some of the seams and chasing air bubble or voids in the body here are some on the rear section of the body. Again, must mention this as one really needs to check the body now and repair the all air bubbles and void before painting then having one of hem pop out. There are quite a few in the body mold as you can see the large one is on the rear and the other smaller ones are on the driver’s side rear seam area. Shane at VRaptor has some good advice on how to find the air bubbles so they can be repaired, you can see it in an earlier post.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Dang....you're really moving along!

[Shoeless]

Making me look like a slacker LOL

[jamesfr58]

Sean, you are doing good and I started before you did so keep it up....

Been working on the diffuser with VRaptors (Shane's) between the strake’s louvers and the diffuser grill. Below you can see the diffuser grill as it is fit into place. This is a two-piece grill and the first picture is the backing for the finish piece that goes over the framework. The second picture if the finish piece clamped to the framework. I need to reinstall the diffuser and position everything before attaching the finish piece to the framework.

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Here is the diffuser cut and ready for the louvers to be installed and view of the diffuse with the louvers in place ready to rivet.

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So tomorrow hope to get diffuser reinstalled and start to match the diffuser grill with the diffuse and the rear of the body. As I mentioned before I am trying to make the whole works removable if needed with out having to drill out rivets, hopefully I can make this happen. More to follow as trying to keep busy in today world...but did have 4 hour conference call today so cut down on my shop time!!

[jamesfr58]

Forgot to mention the diffuser itself required quite a bit of modification to fit properly, from shorting the underside part to fit the larger transitions plate and bell housing for the G96 transmission and where they had cutout for the A arms was no where near where the needed to be or big enough. Any wish I had take a picture of the before and after as the modified one looks nothing like what they sent to install.....

[jamesfr58]

Today’s update since building the car is about all I have been doing being stuck at home and the weather is not good enough yet to start outside choirs. Going to snow tomorrow, maybe up to 6” go figure its April… So, I work in my home office until sometime between 12 and 2 in the afternoon then go down to the shop and work on the GTM, helps keep me sane. Anyway, finished building out the modified rear diffuser today using the between the stakes louvers from VRaptor and the stakes from FFR. Make for a great look and way to let air flow through the engine bay and out the back taking the heat with it…..

This is what the bottom looks like

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This is what the top looks like

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A view looking from the back through the louvers

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I have had the diffuser on the car already and have drilled the hole so it is ready to mount. I hope to get it mounted and mated up to the diffuser grill in shown in the previous post.

[beeman]

Dang....you're really moving along!


Making me look like a slacker LOL

Ditto that! You're like the Energizer bunny. Keep it up, it's great to see your progress!

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for the kind words, just need more to do while being locked down in todays world....

Well back to the shop today with the goal of finding a way to get the diffuser to fit the hole in the back of the GTM. The Gen II diffuser really does not match the hole FFR put in the back to fit the diffuser in so, after some thought and wanting a much better fit using VRaptors diffuser grill I decided to hack the back at the flanges that are angled and do not match the almost straight edges on the diffuser and I needed to gain about 1/4” on each side so the diffusser would fit up to the frame for the grill.

I got the grill frame mounted and bolted in place. Then taped a line to cut a small section out of the back so I could move the side over and twist the lower flange on the body to match the diffuser.

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You can see my scabbed in cuts but the diffuser in now in place and being held there with clecos. Then removed the clecos one at a time ensuring the measurement were the same from side to side and installed 10-32 SS Panhead machine screws with lock nuts. You can see how it sits looking down the rear as far as spacing goes.

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There was plenty of room for the transmission and the shift cables so everything looked good and I started to fiberglass the sides back together tonight and will finish tomorrow. Just have first layer on the inside and will grind out and add build layers from the outside and reinforce the flange. Plan on putting an aluminum strip on the back side of the flange then use rivnuts and 10-32 SS Panhead machine screws. Believe tis would be better than rivnuts into just the fiberglass.

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[jamesfr58]

Finished the diffuser grill this afternoon, here it is on the back of the car with everything in place.

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Have to had it to Shane at VRaptor Speedworks on the quality and fit of the accessary parts he builds of the GTM. The rear of my car as several items but they all look good and fit well. I would recommend Shane accessary parts to anyone who what to build a GTM that is both different and should be functionally better and removing heat from the engine compartment.

[dlud]

That really looks great. I'll add that to purchase order # 3 from Shane. I agree with your assessment: Shane's products are great. Just finished assembling Shane's storage bin today.

[jamesfr58]

After dinner back to the shop to finish fiber glassing the flanges in place for the rear diffuser. Also added an aluminum strip behind the flange attached with 3M 8115 and will fiberglass over them so I can use rivnuts to attach the diffuser to the bottom lower part of the fenders. Just about done with this modification and know everything fits and can be bolted in so on to the next thing and hope it does not require as much work .... oh who am I kidding, I thinks myself !!

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[beeman]

That's one of the nice improvements FFR did for the Gen2, dropping the diffuser to help with engine bay heat. And Shane's filler panel really cleans it up.
What's next on your list James?
I have hours tied up in my passenger side harness bar, I had to make it removable to get make my upper firewall removable. Hope to finish it up this evening...

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks for the kind words, James! You're really moving along on this stuff!

Overhead fiberglassing....fun times!! :rolleyes:

[jamesfr58]

Beeman

Think I will start building the doors or maybe start on the nose making a few modifications before I put it on the car, it is on a stand now that I have removed it and easy to work on now. Know the doors are going to take a good bit to get done so might wait a little on them till weather is warmer and I can open shop and put roller back on ground. I do have a lot of work to do to figure out the rear wheel well and might do these nest and get them ready. My CAI tubing in the configuration I have goes right through the wheel well so have to come up with new design.

[jamesfr58]

Shane

Yup, fiberglassing overhead is a real treat, have to get it off my arm before it sets up and then could not move it!! Your are right it really is messy and gets every where but just part of the fun :p of building your own. Was thinking about building covers for the roll bar and A pillar in place but might change my mind on that as messy as that would be......

[Presto51]

Know the doors are going to take a good bit to get done so might wait a little on them till weather is warmer and I can open shop and put roller back on ground.


Just about done with this modification and know everything fits and can be bolted in so on to the next thing and hope it does not require as much work .... oh who am I kidding, I thinks myself !!

Wait till you get to the doors, you will have a blast with them.

I made a promise to myself, that if I have the pleasure of working on another set of GTM doors, my first step would be to cut off the back window post, and make a new one that has the shape of the window in it, after fitting the rest of the door into it's hole. Another note: The window flange on the A pillar post usually needs slight modification to fit the window as well.

Just a thought/heads up to help with some headaches that lay ahead.

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for the head up Ron, I know the back window post needs to be modified no other way to make it fit. I have had the doors sitting in place and know they are not going on the way they are made. I want to modify the post and add a window track at that location as minimum but would like to be able to build full frame around window. Still toying with the idea and have seen others done this way. Will start working on them and probably change my mind a dozen time before done.....

[jamesfr58]

Finished the install on the diffuser, below are pictures of the diffuser in it final install stage. To allow access to the rear of the rear of the car with out having to drill out rivets I have installed the diffuser with SS pan head machine screws and lock nuts so it can be removed if needed. You can also see the rear view camera installed in the diffuser grill, Shane (VRaptor) can cut for either round or square rear view camera when ordering the grill. Thought I would post a few pictures of the finished product.

View of rear end with diffuser

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View of diffuse to rear fender connection

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View of diffuser after modification to fit lower rear A-arm

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View of inner fender and inner frame connections to diffuser

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[Presto51]

Thanks for the head up Ron, I know the back window post needs to be modified no other way to make it fit. I have had the doors sitting in place and know they are not going on the way they are made. I want to modify the post and add a window track at that location as minimum but would like to be able to build full frame around window. Still toying with the idea and have seen others done this way. Will start working on them and probably change my mind a dozen time before done.....

I'm not a big fan of full window frames, don't like the looks of them. This link shows what Michael aka Rumrunner and I came up with. This solution worked great for keeping elements out.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/window-treatments-gtm-327.415705/

And the finished build product. ( I know shameless plug, but it does show what you can accomplish out of your garage, just stick to it and keep your eye on the end results, blah, blah, blah :) )

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12060-Revealing-Photos-of-GTM-327-!&highlight=revealing+photos

Not sure if you come across another forum member, fastthings but he did a full build video blog via YouTube. The following shows his window track that he built into the right door window. Just to give a look at what you mention above?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_3FkCdzpY

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Starting to fit and make sure I do not have an interference problem with the CAI configuration while laying out the rear inner fender pieces. AS you can see I have modified the parts to miss the CAI piping that goes through the panels. When completed if there is no interference with the tire an movement of the A-arm I will fabricate a cover for the exposed pipe in the picture that is removable to close this area off and direct air flow once it passes the filter into the engne compartment sealing off the fender. Just getting started on this so is work in progress, though I would get this part done before I removed the body for modifications. Also picked up load of lumber for body buck so have some work to do before moving on to doors or nose.

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[HardRocker]

Shane

Yup, fiberglassing overhead is a real treat

Something that has helped me for prewetting cloth or mat to be applied overhead is to make a contour form to hold the piece up. Regular blow up balloons work too, especially large ones from a party supplies store. Whatever you use lightly coat the form with Vaseline and press or tape it up in place. btw, there are also flat balloons available if needed to match a flat contour.

[jamesfr58]

HardRocker

Hey thanks for the tip never thought about balloons but can see would work!

Got the rear wheel wells figured out and installed once with No. 6 screws so I know I can still rivet in place later. Still need for mold around the CAI piping but using balloons just might do the trick. I did install rear tire and jacked the A-arm up to make sure everything would clear and I does so we are in good shape in that regard. So here are some pictures of my solution and modified rear wheel wells.

Drivers Side Rear Wheel Well

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Passengers Side Rear Wheel Well

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I can remove the air filters by uncoupling the CAI piping at the red coupling shown on some of the photos and remove it through the hole in the front panel. Plan on making the cover over the CAI out of fiberglass and make it removable so I can get to items that will be covered when in place and remove the sir filters if needed, but it will seal off the rear wheel well.

And started on my body buck so I can remove the body to work on a few areas like where I cut the hole for the roof scope, side 1/4 windows and make a few other modifications before remounting the body and install the nose. Still working on the body buck and will need anyway later to move body to paint so getting this out of the way now.

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[HardRocker]

I can remove the air filters by uncoupling the CAI piping at the red coupling shown on some of the photos and remove it through the hole in the front panel. Plan on making the cover over the CAI out of fiberglass and make it removable so I can get to items that will be covered when in place and remove the sir filters if needed, but it will seal off the rear wheel well.


I bought a bead roller to roll flanges in the forward wheel well skins to make access panels for my air cleaners. btw on fiberglassing and resin work, sometimes it helps in odd positions to thicken the resin so it doesn't run so easy. You can buy hollow glass "micro balloons" to mix in but regular old solid glass beads like for a blast cabinet work just as well but are heavier.

[jamesfr58]

HardRocker again thanks for the tip, I do have a bead roller and the dies to make flanges, it sure makes some thing a lot simpler to tackle. Never though about or even knew you could thicken fiberglass resin, so learned something new today as well.

Finished my body buck, it is still sitting in the stands, need two of my big boys to help lift it off the stands and get it on the floor. I added a few spare parts to make it a little stronger but is came out good and should work just fine for working on the body and transporting it to painters and back.

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[HardRocker]

HardRocker again thanks for the tip, I do have a bead roller and the dies to make flanges, it sure makes some thing a lot simpler to tackle. Never though about or even knew you could thicken fiberglass resin, so learned something new today as well.


Gtm410 at gtm410.com made some very nice access panels for his tunnel crossover (in the fuel system section of his site). And there’s a silica additive specially made for thickening resins. But micro balloons and regular glass beads do just about as well. Any additive will cause a slight loss of strength but anyone really concerned could easily add another layer of cloth.

And I now too remember back in the old rc plane building days using talcum powder to thicken resin.

[jamesfr58]

Added some clips to assist with keeping the rear wheel wells in, bonded with 8115 now and will fiberglass over them when I remove the body to make a few changes and finish fiberglass work needed in the inside of the body now that I have the body buck built. Weather finally getting better in Wyoming up into 60's and moving to 70's so been doing outside chores the boss wants (wife), limits time in shop a little but still working on getting it done this summer I hope.....

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[HardRocker]

been doing outside chores the boss wants

Nah. That never happens.

[jamesfr58]

Well, this is off the subject but nothing new on GTM been busy with new honey projects, the double oven quit, mother board and key pad, the dishwasher sprang a leak, it needed to be replace a few month ago just never got around to it and the wiring on lights on the range hood quite working so say nothing about the shower she wants installed so been busy in the appliance repair business, playing electrician and ordering parts to fix everything that broke in the las week. Told the boss I though the sink was to do dishes but you know what, I was informed I was wrong and get a new dishwasher so waiting on parts for oven and new dishwasher to come in now so might get to the shop tomorrow unless she can think of something else I need to do.....keep hoping she does not purch to hard for new shower cause that's a lot of work.......

[jamesfr58]

Posted this on another thread, I have one of those Snap-On GTM Traxx cars that I plane to make look like my full size GTM. Thought it would be a neat addition to the full size car at the car show in my part of the world. Plan on building some small pieces to make it look the same and remove decals and paint so it matches. Have it on the bar now as my 6 month Brittany thinks it is something you catch and kill so for now have to stop running it until I can convince her it is not her toy or some strange form of squirrel she need to dispatch with.

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[HardRocker]

so waiting on parts for oven

Get a new one and convert this old one to a powdercoat oven.