Gator's 818R [Archive] - Factory Five Forums

Sgt.Gator

10-09-2017, 02:36 PM

As many of you know that after participating here for a few years while I watched the progress of the 818 I have now purchased Brando's 818R. In 2013 I actually ordered an 818R kit but canceled when I realized there was a lot of pioneering work that needed to be done and issues resolved which I didn't have time to deal with. But now I'm in!
This thread will be to document my own take on a racing - instructor's 818R. The goals for this car will be in the following order:

1) Safe and Reliable car for instructing students at Oregon Raceway Park.
2) Safe and Reliable Track Day rental car for HPDE type events, and possibly Rental Racer too.
3) Performance Racing Car in NW ICSCC races in SPM and NASA NorCal ST2.

Note the order of these priorities. Full race ultimate speed is the last one. I already have an STI built primarily for Endurance Racing, and a Palatov D4 built for Sprint racing, so there is no need to make this an all-out race 818R. What I do need is a car a student and I can feel safe in as they make the transition from a fully caged production car to an open top sports racer like my Palatov. I intend to use this car as a pre-qulifying car for students who want to rent the Palatov but whom I'm not sure they are ready for such a car, so a few laps in the 818R should let us both know if they are ready. And it should be a great car for instructing.

To meet these goals my mods will first be for :
1) Safety
2) Reliability
3) Performance.

Safety:
Now that I've had the car in my shop for a week I've discovered a few Safety shortcomings that need to be rectified first. I've already identified the failure of the broomstick test for me in the 818R Forum Thread on Real Life Broomstick Testing, if you haven't reviewed that thread you should whether you have an R, C, or S.
I'm in the process of taking it back down to Go-Kart mode so I can make a full evaluation before starting the mods. As I find issues I'll post them up here in pics so we can all learn and build safer cars!

Belts: The belts are installed incorrectly, both the main shoulder harness and the sub belts. The shoulder harnesses are threaded thru the D Rings and around the harness bar wrong. Here's the way they are installed and the way Schroth says they should be installed. I know why this is done, I was with a guy who almost fell off a rappel tower because he had his seat harness threaded this way and the belt pulled thru the D-Ring almost all the way out before another officer grabbed him.

https://wct2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mU3DO2fnIGeG3NRsEouRh4HRB4RNVYVeKQ_7vQWuRJbJKgZd wM9K4So5gPCOLl9KtX9UNqkg5MBqMe4L-bnPjhyQn1RrqS7kWMAjS65i1rgEwczeOyRIe8626cL-atj0mJak10RM7lEA0uzDZbaiZraGjZOexoJShaHFkSxfnoblxf tlpS_IJEmE2ah_8WWFqxStDGEMmKRTMRqMaaE-gQw?width=768&height=576&cropmode=none..https://y8uzng.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mTjBxZSoi9xXIiQjs0QwVdFtN--3Io5VvjVtifocQJLudjSOtpAS6N_oyWjAua7sgqqribFmX9ygq m24fEgyFbIlMdW_KuNDPEtvkk5DfBmxUnfpDY19OFyWmdMbKjV mWbfdQBkFJ_7qxI7epDyg4T5f0qq9M0hso4rJtWmwysab52a7D 8CKsOHzcOzfzKPmIFuz9e9cGN1cbaqkmSNnIcw?width=497&height=383&cropmode=none

The Sub belt is not threaded back thru the D-Ring. What's holding it is it's pinched between the anchor fitting and the frame. This is the driver's side, I haven't checked the passenger side sub belt yet.

https://v8t2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mcVsQGvV3r008FP5Dv0LfT-QpN5WKQs1hnv1x9bP0Vb4PEVf_kQVSimozqgOX9RipL9bx0zDs 3CugY4GFq4UNZqghOqW8FDT695jn-d8qGr-qJ80fumQoiRcwGiCCLlPuZ2ykrkji9WpNE-AQMhfrWHL7hHGQUSS097lnAokfnIaszOgXgDQZvVBg9_lqIy6b eBNdl1FfDrS8AUW9t4Hnpg?width=990&height=480&cropmode=none

Padding: There is none. My helmet can contact the angled side bar, and my arms and legs can contact all the side bars in the door. Per SCCA: 1. All portions of the roll cage subject to contact by the driver must be padded with a minimum 1
inch of material. Padding that meets or exceeds SFI 45.1 or FIA 8857-2001 (curved padding), or SFI 45.2 or FIA sports car head rest material (flat padding) specification is recommended.

Firewall: I'm not sure why but there's an odd sideways V shaped hole in the firewall next to the passenger seat. Big enough to reach thru and touch the gas tank. That will be covered over with an aluminum patch.

https://w8t2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mcOhohxho1bG8ga7FYvyWeIlChhuO-mbbLbYM1Cr7ajlBVDVGYlzTiBEpbbt7rtfOhQIeli5mT0m3Qvx 4Pe_FThH1wNSjHasoGWlWgVeJRqRHVzqX61XOQoMK2-sL841XLVXIeV5ie9kYGgsao-hO8AcN1U6Co99qlBQJvTiPMGBi-Afb-8F5y9F4nCI3DKLpbLi8h2jbSh_LjRbiqJnbjQ?width=714&height=576&cropmode=none..https://wst2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m_eBIVHsxCR5kZ1ZWUIKP8hmDstbtG4ALKaUrqo7HwfqgOoj 9ycTCXbdkqqfsOd1WH9D25JhJj2KHWusmGHbBpYFqX1huuoWm8 PK2WCq06bAeIl8Eog8usTrOfPI-3JT0_lY9irHDaYrMePT00oAZ6GiTq1qMlS2q6grdswwf-3o2IPvX5c7DZAe6_tfCC7dNekCHjya2PWdN30Hb2isS2A?widt h=768&height=576&cropmode=none

The shoulder harness bar brings up a second issue, if I drop the seat all the way to the floor I think the harness bar will be too high to pass the zero to -30 degree test. I'm pretty sure it will be angling upwards from my Hans device to the bar, which is a no-no.

https://yst2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mCdlD_ICXvbz_pZCcHh43oeobmf6Pmh4GL8TSPcl9K321wZz n5W1Tkpz2XFUvk18usHjHGaTyvCm-rrsTt4MdEeqsGEJchJkQlgb0SGsgrtdJOUXxdHNNYmi2lOUQ1a GlPJOSBItye6tyPdMO6Kr2GnTtkI93-IH1rktczcVoI9mM4js6x5Tz3ItN9q1efssw9KSMY1eb3nk6t9N Q2jtTlA?width=490&height=496&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

10-09-2017, 02:39 PM

Now for the Broomstick test issues. As purchased the car I failed the test by a good 4" at the main hoop height. To solve this I may use DanielsDM's method of cutting out the X Bars and welding in a steel plate across the bottom. I like the added protection from projectiles that provides, it makes it easy to mount the 5 point sub belt and future 6 point sub belts in the correct locations, and drops the seat as low as possible.

And/or I'm strongly considering a Lotus 2-Eleven GT4 style halo. Many of you are probably familiar with the regular 2-Eleven track car but may have never seen the 2-Eleven that was built for FIA Homologation European GT4 racing. Since the 2-Eleven looks so much like an 818R, the images are good approximation of what our 818 would look like with this style halo:

The standard 2-Eleven: https://w8sr4w.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mSzPqCDmgXoTmX2W1NG34eTHGeTNd4Bv9vBJ9piG_g3Cqmte aIwULf-HISO-NsmFF0xotJJEznzC5mbIEFnLHy8IYHLVopxGA21_ajGVcknLmq lwVfmNDDJrNqFI_bo_3t03MCs_2yqtJSEi8DgsFboK1TjJ0YlU bvlwiQG7uAhdQEpBUbNqfG7SmPzyT6dQWC5XbHsjMnoQgEQsHc den8g?width=717&height=538&cropmode=none

The FIA GT4 race version:

https://y8t2bg.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mbKhxXM9JRLfGx5yJkA1sBWD6H4d9gPJ2xeAynG5BSqO9u0D zDB6NtBKPZWPPNVgaP9q05DMhFEjYM9sMklzfyFHtk4iCLiaQj 5QdJOu8YuipR3UNBWXVpVt62GrKH7wdt6Be0643YNUDQgmEjlt LaLGNkUnb3FCgY6eSVllAFx775ezl87XqxGlCm2tDUapvi399G m91gvJdnq0kW8aH2Q?width=900&height=549&cropmode=none..https://vmsr4w.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mg6BhkwrSn2vj7cqsiBbtXlyfLW52BnaGs5ZU21c7kIyS3c4 jpwiH6mBJ74lfKsAh6fxEQiXOEBtrJ_Kllf-5p-4kzr1ABQfxhX1UgtpIwi2ZBzI0zJZ2hcONUzjv0JbDbrCtkSJa bGBwJlURIMhClVxekQlFWCXGg_XwZqihO4Qi89-pHX5zzlr5fn7-bP-KlaGdpctxTHD5-iZfnK6nUw?width=629&height=420&cropmode=none..https://wssr4w.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mnrQWarVHozLbmMwVq2vJMI3RjTQARWM09Smx2K6V8-Ms3OX1YWsxvbtUNgasT044iTim5sDTJeSzEuN_zGzakAK9O33h aGxdKjyQt60ozFfehFDe_fGCcwCB2Wa-JSnZYO3nPlQjdy3YSH4VeCZqvaTRBL2aW--dI2ruHius6-1tihuBct7L_MAN6qG4b4Da0Zd_5K1jGDfja6z-qu6_6A?width=1140&height=760&cropmode=none..https://wcsr4w.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4msVWQlUSqtYA4F2D8vxfxrJkmCucRUTbeRDbfIHO9QUC3Vva 0FGJ7aT5AUpESEhXBfR22S0Kqd3ur5viSrE3M_fQOhTwyRUqXc bGJBR7cposBUbdPe-or3hwPAMKzPDL3-P1zdbTRUXfz7oAAGekPoVNz0d7NP4IJr4Jf3Ddl-HYPw8Zyv3UqyojyUIWEtVmHbmz-8hcra5TVnDLeEpBHNA?width=1024&height=683&cropmode=none

What do ya'll think?

Mulry

10-09-2017, 02:50 PM

From a racing safety perspective, I like the additional cage.

For your stated priorities specifically, I would find an alternative solution. That particular solution looks like it would be very difficult for ingress and egress, and to the extent that your priority with this car is instructive training for passengers, that cage would be a total PITA.

We've been struggling with this broomstick test problem for awhile, and we solved it with a floor and seat solution. But as I was looking through some photos on my phone of the 818 early in its FFR development, I stumbled upon this one with some interesting roll hoop supplements above the main hoop. This photo is from before the track testing of the prototype car (I believe). I've been wondering about doing this too and if those would pass tech:

75105

Sgt.Gator

10-09-2017, 03:35 PM

Mulry, good point on the ingress-egress, which is basically straight up thru the roll cage. When I drove the MX-5 Cup cars I found it easier to go straight up in and out than to use the doors and squeeze under the cage. But that's the tall guy answer, not for everyone.

On the extension, I'm guessing probably not. It would not meet the one continuous tube and the side braces no more than 6 from the top rules. Although a similar thing has been done with the Spec Racer Ford who had the same issue years ago with tall drivers. They allowed a second hoop to be welded on to the primary hoop. But then again SRF production is owned by SCCA Enterprises!

Here's what Palatov did to extend my D4. When I went to tech it the ICSCC inspector didn't like the extension, but the chief tech inspector for the SCCA NW region was racing that day in our ICSCC races so the ICSCC inspector asked his opinion since the SCCA has the most experience with open top formula and sports racers. The SCCA inspector had no problem with my main hoop extension, but he didn't like the way the rear braces tied into the frame. The end result was they both said to submit drawings to SCCA HQ and get the design homologated....note the car in the background!

This hoop extension is actually blended into the original hoop tube so it is one continuous tube.

https://y8sr4w.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mh3TOC-dNb0yIlKzw7PZr5V5QfnOlH804oHFGYpjM5OVJLAdXsVZRcbRx hVLFu9llxAAaUrXrj61h4LNRDbUzG0WJp_Fy6kFONDtdtM3P99 mR9m6VbZetVRIsdQLj7nRMUlKE5rlxzURG7h6OgVUAq06LbRlC qWvNMAzSC8U-sBdk4fqM20HVzbeiaKv3NUU8tm-xfBtN3JD-RKgAROq4SA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://wsusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mobfIkRICmwerwngJI-rtAknBuVovVFgIbqfTpEAllxPfPAtYjg4m5DsVQ6UbkRyY9gGj ZSYU_ExkB7bJiMtoh70CN0ZRFf1_L1rfRp7EZ76x0JKl_5LHfH 13nOhKpACeESLAQ3Od_pvOORwXlWFAG3USWcxmkELnaC-yHZNjkKkPJ5FgnuLh4P1eZ_931MSCc2gGt_MCoMG_n9W__MSW8 A?width=538&height=360&cropmode=none

phil1734

10-10-2017, 07:32 AM

The extensions also aren't triangulated and are non-nodal. They would apply a massive bending load into the hoop if it were to ever be used.

Strangely, that picture kind of looks like the S roll bar with those extensions simply added on top. While it's obviously pre-production, I do find it odd that with that seat location driver's helmet would still be marginal at best. Kind of shoots a few holes into the "it fit in CAD" argument.

Sgt.Gator

10-10-2017, 10:02 AM

I don't have the side fender panels off yet, but from what I can see in the gap it looks like there is about 3" of unused clearance between the cockpit firewall and the Boyd tank. If that is correct and I can refabricate the firewall back 3" that will make a difference in how high the roll bar has to go for my helmet to clear the broomstick. I got the serch function figured out, looking at what everyone has done with the Boyd Tank / Firewall Mod.

RetroRacing

10-10-2017, 12:41 PM

We see this all the time, when it comes to belt installation, it's just too easy to do wrong.
The 818R model is an incomplete adaptation of the street version to something you can really race on track. You still need a ton of knowledge, and some pretty advanced modifications, to really turn it into a safe and sorted wheel to wheel race car, it's more an advanced track day car for someone that doesn't want to take out their expensive sports car.

Sgt.Gator

10-11-2017, 09:57 AM

I sat in the car with no seat, my butt jammed down behind the stock floor X-Braces right on the aluminum floor, and my helmet resting back against the harness bar. I can literally get no lower or further back than that. I still was 1/2" short of passing the broomstick test. So I either have to raise the rear roll bar, add a front hoop, or sell the car to someone who doesn't have the body of a fat mink topped with a giraffe neck! Make me an offer before I start cutting and welding!

longislandwrx

10-11-2017, 10:01 AM

can you get the 1/2 by tilting the seat back?

AZPete

10-11-2017, 11:27 AM

Sgt, the 3" gap between the firewall and Boyd tank is easy to solve. The 1/8"-thick panel from FFR is for the FFR tank, but the Boyd tank is 3" thinner, so I bent the panel 20 degrees more at the second bend from the top. Or, I saw someone else who cut the panel and made it a 2-piece firewall.

Sgt.Gator

10-11-2017, 11:57 AM

can you get the 1/2 by tilting the seat back?
No. my head (helmet) was all the way back against the harness bar. There's no more room down or back to get.

Sgt, the 3" gap between the firewall and Boyd tank is easy to solve. The 1/8"-thick panel from FFR is for the FFR tank, but the Boyd tank is 3" thinner, so I bent the panel 20 degrees more at the second bend from the top. Or, I saw someone else who cut the panel and made it a 2-piece firewall.
Thanks AZPete. I searched and found your thread and several others form the original group of pioneers who dealt with this issue. Although it won't solve my broomstick test problem, it should give me a lot more legroom so my knees won't be so bent. Thanks.

Bob_n_Cincy

10-11-2017, 12:49 PM

Gator
Michael is 6'3 340#
we move the gas tank to battery box.
Replaced roll bar. (13" to 18")
custom shaped kirkey seat.

I will bring it to PRI if you want to try it on for size.
Bob

75170

Sgt.Gator

10-11-2017, 08:19 PM

Gator
Michael is 6'3 340#
we move the gas tank to battery box.
Replaced roll bar. (13" to 18")
custom shaped kirkey seat.

I will bring it to PRI if you want to try it on for size.
Bob

75170

Thanks Bob, your's look good! They should all come 18".

I think we have the solution, our very own Tom Ryon who works and drives FFRSpec72's (Tony) 818R is going to build me a similar halo cage to what he did for this Factory Five Cobra, which is already approved and has been racing in our ICSCC and SCCA races for years:

https://wcusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mrV8MglY1uiKdk-627eTP6T5WHqLoJKi21p9KHZwjh53RjyT8N5nByuXV3xfQYLVb 3cRe1xpmSGTTCnwt-Z9Ss2RJQI7DpH4qh-stPapnF1g_9-dbhZOXzBGC4yCgB2d3AGfJ8CB_bBA44l06SZc1cZFV2wHAZm8w SQhuRhH-cdgS0FPeBttmuwbqbBs7J7BXsIJEh6V7T8P0bnFEsH_asQ?wid th=1024&height=682&cropmode=none

https://v8usvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mJ3zbVas327ksT6rZEUa5JrH1wqYg6Nj2d1JEQvpDyZnYG9m AQoNl7UTdvqAx46GNxxL13mlVn-9cKOJnGsGqyN7G2L-4oV1yN4OVK7SUHarSL5V8FX88--RUqB-fgvvDNnd6KbkbHuMWw9crRNNzTlE4gFmmLXok98UVpKIHLDm7X a9H0N59tJ3GMHdeYak661XmBUXelc0bbYXGLIQGPw?width=10 24&height=768&cropmode=none

Although I want to add corner braces in the halo corners like this Palatov:

https://w8usvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mokdSh225v5lv0enT91xgGdwIeb6k9BRSkaFjhUB71SWu2w0 UICxVoB2l8-Pil0aa4CdeCLfpDNFWUXgOe-UF-BH_Na7qzxYmF3Gcp-DNtc6luQT_p3VFIdS2GXnhZw9FzlY2Xz62fHO6wEgjPOW3JyIF vnz4v9XklJdOoXDEEyVQieMp3kORWI32KVNOv6l5d_jbwWn6TE Ok-zP4IX72SA?width=1024&height=536&cropmode=none

https://wmusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mPMACrL3H3FH9PXQPHgyTO0yLk2qURS6nkmKVz-FafLtYt5ZUeaqLMdy8DALXgLWOafCCZd4p0q2cok4h2XgPkZAm hXTeGZIwN_gw4fk0j8JpR23PKUYbwf88rEWBn-m30i17aUIHjqUmnP6AkY9DVm42Fw56BXld7SQprfZn0f9DI3Q-xzKkE3B5BL8omKMGavBt-pJiO9U645SQqPBl-A?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

I'm debating keeping the 818R angled brace that comes from the main hoop to the front at about face level or not. It would be easier to get in and out without it, and far easier to get out when upside down and on fire without it. But it does add a measure of side impact safety which is far more likely than being upside down and on fire. We'll try a test wriggle out and see if I could do it....
Thanks Tom!

RetroRacing

10-12-2017, 11:18 AM

From and engineering stand point, I see issues with both but nothing that can't be dealt with easily. I agree that the angle brace is nice, but will make it impossible to get out in a rollover. Check out our Nascar side impact foam installation that is both light and effective in dealing with a hard side impact situation.
We have many thoughts about how the cage could be improved, as well as how we would approach a new build with this chassis. Bring your colored pencils........

Sgt.Gator

10-16-2017, 12:42 PM

I seem to be a magnet for drama and confrontations over cage modifications:

I took the 818R with me to the Portland Enduro race with two goals, as an emergency odd parts car for Retro's 818R, and also to meet with our ICSCC race stewards and get their blessings on my proposed cage modifications BEFORE I start cutting and welding (and spending $$$). The Blessings part was a fail, and even worse than I expected.

I proposed two solutions to the broomstick failure test:

1) Raise the main hoop (rear) by 6" by cutting off the factory hoop and braces and fabricating an almost exact replica of hoop and braces, only 6" higher. The problem with this solution, besides not providing protection from another car sliding up over the front of the 818 or impacts from loose wheels flying down the track (Watch out! Terry's driving the Retro Racing RX-7 and here comes a wheel at 90mph! :cool:), it also means the angled side bar will have to go up 6" making ingress /egress even more difficult. So my prefferrred solution is 2).

2) Adding a new front hoop and braces. There were two likely spots the additional front hoop could be located. The hoop would be braced to the rear hoop with two braces far enough inside that a driver and passenger could still ingress/egress over the angled sidebar and slide down between the fore aft braces connecting the hoops, aka the FF Challenge car in the pics above.

The two stewards went back and forth over the course of hours looking at it and discussing my two proposed solutions. At the end of the race, they said either solution would require either a letter from Factory Five approving the modifications as safe, or an engineers letter and stamp approving them as safe, or SCCA Tech certifying the design and issuing a homologation certificate. After several subsequent and angst filled emails overnight they have ruled that if I get an acknowledeged cage expert to do the modifications, and if the Conference insurance person agrees it meets the rules, they will stamp the cage. So now I'm trying to settle with them who the cage builder has to be!

They say the 818R has to meet SCCA Formula/Sports Racer cage rules, not Production rules.

That's a lot of IFs. Frankly, if someone was to offer me a good price where I can cover my transportation costs from California up to the NW and make a modest profit I'd be willing to sell the car and move on to something I know I can fit in, like a FF Gen 3 Daytona coupe. The buyer will need to be less than 6' tall though! :mad:

RetroRacing

10-16-2017, 02:30 PM

I have two engineers on staff that could sign off on the cage design. Send me a quick drawing, with measurements of what you want, and I will get them working on it if you want.
All this for the low low price of helping out again at the next endure!

Sgt.Gator

10-16-2017, 03:21 PM

Sgt.Gator

10-18-2017, 12:19 PM

I'm still working with a few Conference folks about my cage design. They helped by pointing to the Diasio 962, a car I'd never heard of as a similar design to what I want:

https://ysusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mkvTZBq9u5tEveXTD7Mxqn_oohgSdm9wKFXgj4eO7itkTyIl qkUPljM8FWKbvcYu1wMeDwNDEyk9hfUC3EQheoQdJW5ydNQ94A fiyWJ4tvrgDHpOBmJeJoXZWwpdBubQUSDrlHEFKzoqwCJ89RdE FScIQmfrx-_jH8mRxswoYl6g_63bwW9nu-2oSeRC1KNwvakxneQFv3uATRwmvQilNCQ?width=576&height=304&cropmode=none...https://wsthza.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m3xBUDy9qY_p6FOGQ-jXnemQVHgk4t8b-pDjF9s0CA9s3RVXxc9A4ICpSvIezaIp03R43HJ1tvr70tZIRx7 x9nOJVIaF9YLAj0IfAKnQIAmqsi3VGWFb0Oi0brh7nLQvBPYyz 6mtES-PR71Husat-oJxLEH5e7efuTgppWlEbhY7-R50NjjJOIu7A7xa-PoUtVQ_ZVEUssOqqoM3VgomqRQ?width=576&height=432&cropmode=none..https://y8usvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mWnVeAPBIVQURW6-68TIFpLPJCBLTMOJtV8IGg7qJiEYWwxNtHErdD7l9BHrPW4y_x xKLI3rzYLQUAv4fIZWZvAU9TnzgPy52Dk8uQgQJyR2d4mA5uhM-dE0GfvHK4lNkiD8OxAbuKnZ_ud5QlT-L1X6te062xPYupodb8EWmNyekXWNFaYWVetljocGwLK1hynlH_ GJcL6rntRrOCY6CHQ?width=576&height=245&cropmode=none

Other cars we race against with a similar design except it includes the sidebars, these guys are Jeff's neighbors in BC. Lotus Super 7 Challenge cars, they use the same design as the Lotus 2-Eleven and we see them at our Conference races. IMHO their side protection is pretty non-existent : http://www.super7cars.com/motorsport.html

https://w8thza.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mOSJASz6TMDTdnZ4OjWRr0SiSvRNl1nDcBVtRZJ5iuQaxNyy b8wkom3NXkrLD7HIpskUr6ZUTgL-MvqROrnbebM0xvAMKcsc0w7CqBHWZnN9fIreCM6ivx1agLuyMH hIgPsnU2vM3HqBz-q7Cq-fmFsb0A4LXk-UXTsE1ZQyU3XC4wpfPXZj4rDnOv_eqoMOeWg8TkKawf-6p2pKojpEXJg?width=470&height=265&cropmode=none

The perfect solution would be a Factory Five 818R Challenge front hoop cage. Since it would be designed by FF it would almost automatically be accepted. I don't see that happening anytime soon!

Mitch Wright

10-18-2017, 12:37 PM

Have you asked FFR? One of the engineers might have a design in a file on his computer.
Won't know until you ask.

Sgt.Gator

10-21-2017, 02:52 PM

Have you asked FFR? One of the engineers might have a design in a file on his computer.
Won't know until you ask.

Not yet but I am now.

I did get one definitive answer to one of the options we were considering. In the past SCCA allowed an add-on bar for tall racers of formula cars, and SCCA Enterprises even manufactured an addon bar option for the Spec Racer Ford. Apparently, that is no longer allowed. The answer you see here applies specifically to my Palatov D4 attempt to follow the SRF addon and get SCCA homolgation, but it applies equally to an 818:

"After reviewing your paperwork/pictures, I don’t believe this car requires homologation. However, one item to keep an eye on is the main hoop.

First off, our rules do not allow “scabbed on” main hoops. It appears that there is an additional hoop welded on top of the initial hoop. That is okay, only if the “broomstick” test is passed successfully from the lower hoop to the front hoop. The driver must be underneath a straight line drawn from the main hoop (lower hoop in your case) to the front hoop.
-John

SCCA
John Bauer
Road Racing Technical Manager/Application Developer | Sports Car Club of America"

Mulry

10-30-2017, 12:10 PM

Sgt.Gator

10-31-2017, 10:09 AM

The FF Challenge front hoop and connections to the main hoop makes a lot of sense. There is a pretty good landing node at the front for the hoop and it wouldn't be difficult to add some triangulation there. I like that front-rear horizontal connection with the side supports. I'd make a drawing if I could find a good side view of the cage...

Thanks. FYI Jim Schenck has stepped up and is helping us with the dimensions/drawings for the design of a front hoop. Retro Racing volunteered his engineers to do the design (Thanks, Jeff!). I hope we have a design in a couple of weeks, then Tom Ryon is going to build it.

Meanwhile....
We are installing an FI Tech Suge tank. Pics when we have it located.
http://fitechefi.com/fitech-content/images/products/40007_1.png

The firewall is being replaced with a lighter aluminum one that will be moved back close the tank giving more legroom, and it will actually be sealed up, no gaping holes for gas to pour thru on me!

An ESS AFFF 5.0L, 6 nozzle fire system is being installed. The bottle will be located up front near the battery.

And in case you haven't seen the announcement for the new F3 Americas Series car, here it is with the new FIA required HALO:

7616276163

https://www.f4uschampionship.com/articles/2008376-scca-pro-racing-announces-the-2018-f3-americas-series-to-debut-april-27th-2018-at-virginia-international-raceway

Mulry

10-31-2017, 10:16 AM

Sgt.Gator

10-31-2017, 10:41 AM

That's awesome news! I'm very interested in using the front hoop design too. I love the roadster, but I love not being as deathy even more. Especially for those of us who will be using these chassis in W2W endurance action.

I, (or possibly FF ?), will apply for an SCCA Homologation on the design. Then any builder should be able to have no issues at any track as long as he follows the design exactly.

DanielsDM

10-31-2017, 12:20 PM

The firewall is being replaced with a lighter aluminum one that will be moved back close the tank giving more legroom, and it will actually be sealed up, no gaping holes for gas to pour thru on me!

What are you using for a tank? The firewall pic it looks like the 1st generation. My car is has the 2nd gen tank design that is shallower on the driver side.
I'm not using the FFR tank, instead I designed a fuel cell that fills the space (entirely, 18 gallons), Harmon Fuel Cells built the cell (bladder only). Instead of using a separate "can" to enclose the fuel cell we are using the FFR firewall panels plus additional back and side panels. We're not running the ECU harness or anything else through the firewall so the feedthru above the FFR tank is not needed.

Sgt.Gator

10-31-2017, 02:42 PM

What are you using for a tank? The firewall pic it looks like the 1st generation. My car is has the 2nd gen tank design that is shallower on the driver side.
I'm not using the FFR tank, instead I designed a fuel cell that fills the space (entirely, 18 gallons), Harmon Fuel Cells built the cell (bladder only). Instead of using a separate "can" to enclose the fuel cell we are using the FFR firewall panels plus additional back and side panels. We're not running the ECU harness or anything else through the firewall so the feedthru above the FFR tank is not needed.

I think it has the Boyd tank. First Gen if there is a newer one. This car was one of the first Rs produced. I've considered a custom fuel cell similar to what you describe, only I'd go ahead and use an aluminum can. But since this is not going to be my primary race car (I have an STI for Enduros and a Palatov D4 for Sprints), but primarily for instructing and track rental, I'm not going to spend $2K+ for a fuel cell.

But it is important to avoid going ultra lean from fuel starvation in corners, hence the surge tank.

I forgot to mention that Tom is also installing a rollover vent valve in the tank and fixing the sender unit.

https://v8thza.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mNqd8iuU-OmHNCsZiADUxrUEkgscLOaLygED_mOwYzDb3-f3yvbpvKlMy3anQn3Zeua-I_OWII-IrdvSPBhlQWbccMKdhReJrTxMLPyxaBooKPr3M9e0IRUjPlpbs joYSsbP5zvvSCv67YWE9xIXv7VZad3dcRYrDtu2BYY3yy0vJ1u iXCsE6LMCdOlG5zFgN_cgFDl4oI9MyOk72vfEzBQ?width=102 4&height=768&cropmode=none..https://vmthza.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4muX6cs8xN1gKk1gIBwzmm7r0VXOX-sH4D9852zNoWVFRXku94sNId2CsaLInmwVAazuW7SKtzEGd3QD PzDsBraB7khJwrgbZGCXjBt8NXpKtvU638ThcA5HzTM_0ykiI7 Gs5JUrPbun6t123XScWnbLi1aVETnxnA4nUzRjNkP3YXeunXDw Kf5F7RGzmWi7rXlgYmXgQzyb4hXvgeZViiEw?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

Rob T

10-31-2017, 09:52 PM

Gator. I’d be interested in the new cage design when you get it. I’ll keep an eye out. Thanks for spearheading this. Rob

C.Plavan

11-01-2017, 10:57 AM

Forget the additional surge tank, if you are building a custom cell, just have them add it to the cell. $131 extra from FuelSafe without any additional hoses/fittings needed. I did that with Rob's. No issues at all.

https://fuelsafe.com/lightweight-surge-tank-st110/

Sgt.Gator

11-01-2017, 11:38 AM

FFRSpec72

11-01-2017, 12:01 PM

Your car is taking up space in my garage !!!!

RetroRacing

11-01-2017, 12:13 PM

Is that an E-brake I see in a race car? please don't use, please don't use....

phil1734

11-01-2017, 02:01 PM

Is that an E-brake I see in a race car? please don't use, please don't use....

It's called a "drift stick" now! All the cool kids have one.

https://blog.caranddriver.com/fords-new-drift-stick-for-focus-rs-steps-up-its-e-brake-game/

Sgt.Gator

11-01-2017, 05:05 PM

Your car is taking up space in my garage !!!!

LOL, MY garage now!

Is that an E-brake I see in a race car? please don't use, please don't use....
Only when I've just come off track from a 60 Minute Enduro at Mission would I ever use it!

It's called a "drift stick" now! All the cool kids have one.

https://blog.caranddriver.com/fords-new-drift-stick-for-focus-rs-steps-up-its-e-brake-game/

Lol, I hate drift events. I don't get them at all!

Sgt.Gator

11-17-2017, 02:03 AM

A few updates:

Tom has been working on the 818R in "Tony's" Garage......New surge tank located: https://wcskna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mySBTTmziSI4iLClyGkNh_XH_qd2Ek2HjQJAwyLeZCAuS6SE T1SAUHwhyD5YdHDHwcQ1MmXS1vWb1LQtY9dsZRHBXQyA7VIJX8 dRqwklHKxx4Q6dZjtWwS-qwzOhvO-2-Hr58QpfNRXWgHJU8k7jg8leOeYL5VbRwxRKzMfSvgvLeXkFjuw PzH5snVHATXgY3iPfGSW8rztagDDWHanV_nA?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none..https://w8skna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m0nurItkogxaQAnMWfAY1LibX7qi9HHTmvu-E4K7YwCQZXNktiO8NQCxxq7M4IIcjvFZ6ca1P7zn9gUyiRoEyq yu6SzIoFG7oE4DfT7W1yGgMIUj0zNc2cInQ2i0sLXCDkEdUo7x p2dBHIliKAgNZFdYduodLLQkeCuKpN_3Aq55FaiTAGzjHn6EDT yJAQLLYGf9AxVhebFJAQGViaxhREQ?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

New Mishimoto XLine STI Radiator, Battery Box for an EarthX Lithium Battery, & ESS Foam 4.8L Fire Bottle Installed:

https://wmskna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mUuuipibcXxL_cMH5pjtZ0PM_SVOScqyXf8ykHZOTlCqdDR5 7x7SNVbnw4Uj1ECSY774yTNLQ1l7cXkKU4UXC1p03wzF2PskFN HiAWtMaQayP7eMGtjye-iDIQyk-YXqIOVUuJnlIRrK9bf9WnwQkvcgulelEKv92XWIFYMdwS3Y_AD a1fBKemkSsEov1ffl0NW2EPS5CQLH9KGZhZBtdWw?width=102 4&height=768&cropmode=none

And Fuel Tank Cleaned up and wiring squared away a bit:

https://vsskna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mVu2DiCON-JCe2Bcgc6HDl2qZRWCu4yWSMuiMcrmahj8Lma7qUOS4x5FALkG 6y4YC4d9koxt2cANEjSeSc-8F5G5fv8rCZEGbVeSrvReAVaeo8hxyRhV7yI2_YwzXgx_MQ3qk EWc0MS9MHLDylDqUeXx1zNob3tb2L0Em4xaZktdkDAidLmbJYA Q2w6GQay24VGMHSVdlgHoMfmB3USyIBA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Next up will be fitting a Mishimoto G-Line FMIC, ducting, and the IC tubes.

Sgt.Gator

11-23-2017, 02:00 PM

Tom got the Mishimoto G-Line FMIC partly installed so he can mock up the IC piping and radiator/intercooler ducting:

https://vmskna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mdkmbSDVB6nyt4g_LWDgh498nJg4Ari5XuSijGxRKBa33g2s _80lmSRtQ9YyEa9LxOgn-eNBpZD3o8LPGL5rvioNukGcMdkf8r5dLY8fZqkHfE6R1qGRWE2 DfkaRENP0DkC4QhTEK_hXv0248FP4zoDx1w1nv18_fN2D5DHkL iXuPIoszCh1lMmTmsPtUu9FCQSWbBQvVkXG9DlUoIttN2w?wid th=1024&height=768&cropmode=none
and

https://vcskna.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mU89nPgHhJnJfKWXHcq0duTQXUSIo8xpRpdFIoEHpk_ls-TdTwll1jNIQTTJD9wfhb37LqF5TVIxi8fqMyUDowNoihJZw4wu xp3HEPCmmioz67xr7eu07xU4lIbX1JIaDIedH5Pdw4kpUbmNUU Mx9uHQw7Pc2OszH8nQylCwz7lu86b3FDbthLP6Jp0Wt_XlrScV 5bpJlCmBd_x3U827f1A?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Mitch Wright

11-27-2017, 12:21 PM

Nice progress

Sgt.Gator

11-27-2017, 05:25 PM

Nice progress
Tom is doing nice work!

Lower brace in:

https://w8ulea.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mpzy3mhyw6PmD-idRTkUqv63YLWy4XaCjpgmMIGZu5oovorPLhny8os5MDZcLOIF-rKWASlMVpcaXW1Ob8MJ4X-CG7NtWGPK8kahRKU92zI3tpE94CJXkScte281I0cwBMT_-ttB1DchK27RQC8d07eLFqo83wshnaCvOHtavnAXMgNpS0MA24J Qvbd2oDkr-UbEaS3Ew3Es57hYZ55BxRQ?width=992&height=1024&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

11-27-2017, 07:28 PM

Nice progress

Mitch do you have some larger images of the front fender mod you posted here?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=300656&viewfull=1#post300656

Mitch Wright

11-28-2017, 01:54 PM

Sgt.Gator

11-29-2017, 03:32 PM

I did the same thing Hobby Racer did, measured in 2 or 2.5 inches in the front of the door then ran a tape line to the back of the door and cut. What was a little tricky was getting was the bottom of the door right. Masking tape is your friend and measure and eyeball a few times before cutting.
I had to notch the top of the door a little to clearance the forward down tube and have a nice clean fit.
I can take some photo's tonight of the finished product, let me know if you are looking for anything in particular. The first door I think I started by taking an inch on the first cur then 1.5 and so on. My concern was a big ugly gap at the back of the door and 1/4 panel. With the amount I moved the front of the door in the rear gap is more than acceptable at least to me.
Feel free to text or call me at 504 388 4339

I did find these shots, not sure if these are helpful.
Thanks! On my screen they are sideways, I'll see if I can fix them and repost.
https://vculea.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mza3SioFLiTovWnjna2H3FcSPT99K2D5nYUkEhCxRb8muI_U GBKSfR6Tid8Vl5_2E7FZUrtJStgivHVJRrtWfCCiEjNbZQTnrM qKtM_p4k67FQ9G5S-ra4hzw7r_YhsM60-E8dRMv2BpDQQMhgSLn_8N_DSUeAIhi_k-FWR6T4NBYy6Y-K_eK25hwMvhDQoxdULIl1DsGgzRW9cBmrpgZyg?width=620&height=1024&cropmode=none..https://v8ulea.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mp9RNfuaex_M2IsTbkjL5T1CwbBQpdiuQI256oZgaKqjDw7w ZTX21gdQFE1hBQI-gIE-xYw_hwjZl_lkwzf6v9izCK0v1OepxNYM4PUUgZojwbcuvSWmIZ oJxFrtbqZoOV5HzXGKK6CoXdVFhl-ZOKtcpXt50xURSOfNShh596GBamY016F8041DI_vFpAqjt9Q5n aUcpoxH96x_k50h5wA?width=853&height=1024&cropmode=none....https://vmulea.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mbqkWk0N6z7-pGMRdGwpIBCLsTpHzx7yDhpuqaZDC0N-26iqkaknFguqtJ4NYx8iWTLxjryv2dW7QKp2bPcWDJCd7gDPDf IF_mdlq71LDibRnmCszsmBbqpJYdnyREmVGbzKQd1ET4tvdALY Oaf2HaR0wK9yZzkKZ0b0gWwcA3tOrjl8_n4kOXjKkh05rKjqlV nDr45oQ-JIWi9pHFoh8Eg?width=705&height=1024&cropmode=none

This probably won't work with my FMIC boost tubes, but we'll see.

Mitch Wright

11-30-2017, 12:26 PM

I will take a shot of the front of the door's along with a measurement on both sides. I would bet you can still get them in there using 2.5" tubing.

Sgt.Gator

01-28-2018, 12:56 PM

Tom has finished tacking up the 818R Halo Cage for Tall Boys!
It's inspired by the Lotus 2-Eleven FIA GT4 design.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/lotus/7730203.jpg

Tom's done a good job replicating it to the 818R frame.
The tubes triangulate with downtubes in the frame:

https://ipiuca.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mD7jRU7A1cRuWViPF-4qDcbrCgE-0ZBqquzLVHBRG-4RfOCTjihec1orprmt78qxMb0-EsDgtVmjUAQdGsUbYfplcpf8gnqGzTtCRS-ueHZ-w6oW1Y0ouRy3BgmyuFcuN59zXUAdfecsxTNYTyqehuVijKlsuD GtXAnGF6GI_fxiVEF4GFigVL2feQiU73STGqmx1bv906DDgGgm 4-TdNVg?width=999&height=648&cropmode=none..

https://ieiuca.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mYUODQ6ZE3XO3NmDowfhbzkLGcJWa75Wm8putl4qMU_nezuI f1-UsuiN9bpsC1jywI68DvlDZ6NXJff0uzGstbX1F7TfQa0Lrh9qv D_JrxRSbf3eKZ0KwaSdFIITKfwQfzxb7JrxJQ4UxBcKdDYQfkT YklgYi8yS9_QsnKJSLx_wv6x666kUa3nsVzcHY9rSI1jbcH6hJ YCRxMygvAoL1RQ?width=983&height=576&cropmode=none..

https://huiuca.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mYnxs-Ip1TagyFE99z29607qJ6ai1_ANydRTuDl8Cq5hQ0fB9Wtcmo72 zuuq8okhOf_euxjLHyfv4rR5LGtVE-uYgrPSrq7Ej9GmVSIewykQ4awXUkW5ZDMk_dRcsVG3kYHlIrnb 1T3uaWZKhYbQsJVI4ODNtuighqxxZRFd8p5i0ZxWt7oAQ4WxCI 9M51w4CiBUHmV6HGeWHcrrWWQDAhw?width=547&height=648&cropmode=none

Closeup of where the front hoop triangulates with the existing front low hoop, crossbar, and downtube:

https://ioiuca.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m7s2htr6pjee3bUJ6hCgGxRaGPnMSLLbB7C8oNcBAxrnSzXK oNGwKCeOTLFbw5KsEhOhIfL6uI1hC6i8JVrqMLiHcdayi4YMip CUalpfS7_yEuiF9qm4VECFkh3rRTooSkuhkDsM2C4nuOCAg2kH vdUKvXdgPEeEiORwH9SpNykkk4K7qes24MZJfWlLDzvttPSthy Iw34w_uchVaIoy1ug?width=144&height=141&cropmode=none

I should be able to get in and out thru the top as the normal exit/entry, or possibly thru the "window", I'll have to practice on both. And thru the "window" if the car is upside down sitting on the roof.

This should end any questions about the broomstick test.

Please let me know if you see any issues before we finish weld it!

Hindsight

01-28-2018, 05:09 PM

VERY cool!!! It will be so much safer. I want to do something similar.... Even with my S, at the speeds I hit on the track, I really feel nervous without this kind of protection.

Mitch Wright

01-28-2018, 05:10 PM

Looking good

Rob T

01-28-2018, 07:26 PM

It looks really good. I can't tell from the picture, but is the rear tube the same (standard) height that came with the car?

Sgt.Gator

01-28-2018, 08:06 PM

Thanks Mitch and Hindsight.

It would be cool to do an FEI analysis to determine if this makes the car stiffer or flimsier. My layman's eye says it probably stiffer.

Sgt.Gator

01-28-2018, 08:07 PM

It looks really good. I can't tell from the picture, but is the rear tube the same (standard) height that came with the car?

Yes. The Main hoop (Rear) is unchanged. The same rear braces too.

Zach34

01-29-2018, 02:06 AM

DanielsDM

01-29-2018, 09:50 AM

I like it.
I would add some gussets where the smaller diagonal bar meets the front hoop.

C.Plavan

01-29-2018, 10:51 AM

Now that is the correct way to make a cage for the 818R. Very nice.

Sgt.Gator

01-29-2018, 03:35 PM

That's awesome. Good to see more frame improvements. All that tube coping had to be time-consuming. Very interested to see how looks with the body on.

What's going on with the panel with the 4 large circular holes close to the steering wheel?

Gusset. If we roll the car and force is coming down on the front hoop it should strengthen it. It's a bit left over from a previous version where we didn't have the brace all the way back and above the downtube. Once we moved the brace back and directly above that tube it's not as important. But we'll leave it in.

I like it.
I would add some gussets where the smaller diagonal bar meets the front hoop.

That's in the plan. Probably a couple more here and there too.

Now that is the correct way to make a cage for the 818R. Very nice.
Thanks!

Rob T

01-29-2018, 10:19 PM

Gator: When you get it worked out, are you going to sell "kits" for the rest of us? Or is there too much custom for each car to make that work?

Sgt.Gator

01-30-2018, 03:04 AM

Gator: When you get it worked out, are you going to sell "kits" for the rest of us? Or is there too much custom for each car to make that work?

I hadn't thought of that, but I think it could be done. I'll talk to Tom about it.

phil1734

01-30-2018, 08:34 AM

It would be cool to do an FEI analysis to determine if this makes the car stiffer or flimsier. My layman's eye says it probably stiffer.

Unless this "Tom" is the worlds worst welder it's impossible to make it flimsier by adding supports. It's more of just a question of how much you added. I really wish I had done an R chassis for my S. The thing has the torsional rigidity of an over-cooked lasagna noodle. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's somewhere in the 5,000 ft-lbs/degree range.

DodgyTim

01-30-2018, 04:47 PM

Unless this "Tom" is the worlds worst welder it's impossible to make it flimsier by adding supports. It's more of just a question of how much you added. I really wish I had done an R chassis for my S. The thing has the torsional rigidity of an over-cooked lasagna noodle. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's somewhere in the 5,000 ft-lbs/degree range.

We tested the R on a torsion rig at over 17,000 Nm per degree :)

Mitch Wright

01-30-2018, 05:59 PM

That's 12538.60 Ft-lb per degree.
I just jacked up the front of my R over the weekend and with the jack under a front corner of the chassis I raise both sides. So the R is a bit stiffer than a over cooked Lasagna noodle. Not saying it can't be better but the chassis is not bad, which also attributes to the car being sensitive to chassis changes. At least that has been the experience I have.

turbomacncheese

01-30-2018, 08:31 PM

Reads to me like he thinks the S is the lasagna noodle, hence wishing he'd built an R?

phil1734

01-31-2018, 08:30 AM

Correct, I wish I had done an R chassis for the street as a few others have done. Even my girlfriend generally prefers to step over the doors rather than bother with them so for me there's no reason to have them and the gaping hole they leave in the chassis. I don't have a problem with roll-bar clearance, but that would be an added benefit as well for some. The problem with the S is the doors are completely non-structural without any side-impact bracing, and there is no load bearing center tunnel to help like an OEM vehicle would have, which means all the front-rear interaction goes through a very small, short area.
80120
It's pretty much just a skateboard and it's very obvious the chassis flexes a ton both by sound and a simple finger-feel test around the doors pulling up inclined surfaces at an angle.

My arm-chair engineering would have pegged the R right around where you tested it, but it's awesome to see someone has done it. Thanks for sharing Mitch. For comparison, I've tested quite a few convertible OEM performance cars, (Corvette, Mustang, Miata, SLR type deals,) and they generally range from 8,000ft-lbs/degree to 14,000. GT3/GT4 cars typically come in 35-45,000 and open cockpit carbon tub prototypes 55,000. (Pardon my cryptic nature, I do this sort of measurement for a living and I don't feel it appropriate to share the exact numbers/models that someone else paid big bucks for.) I never have done an open tube frame sports-racer/818 type though so I'll add that to my mental database.

Mitch Wright

01-31-2018, 10:55 AM

Jim at FFR in one of our conversations that FFR has done structural analysis and mentioned what the number was with and without the diagonal crossbar in the passenger area. I just don't recall the number.

UnhipPopano

01-31-2018, 11:20 AM

flynntuna

01-31-2018, 12:50 PM

I too considered getting a R for the street. And modifying the rollbar by moving the front down bar to have it run along the top of the door and fully gusset the rear down bars behind the seats.

Not sure if that would be effective as far as maintaining the safety aspects of the rollbar or not though,
And really haven't thought about it since I got my car from a second party.

phil1734

01-31-2018, 02:06 PM

" I wish I had done an R chassis for the street as a few others have done."

If my memory serves me correctly, there was a discussion concerning the safety of driving the "R" version without a helmet. If you use the R chassis for mostly street, would you modify it, drive around with a possible safety issue, or drive around town with a helmet?

The only issue I see from behind my computer would be the roll hoop brace that runs forward. That tube would need removed/lowered or if it's far enough away at least some serious padding. Obviously nothing about driving these cars on the road is really safe by modern standards. You're realistically only slightly better off than a motorcyclist. I personally am always far more concerned with people driving on the street with 4/5 point harnesses that they leave loose so they can actually turn their head and body to look for traffic/park.

DodgyTim

01-31-2018, 09:48 PM

Sgt.Gator

02-06-2018, 02:28 AM

The halo is finished but not yet painted. I'm considering going with another color than the typical black for the halo. Maybe Subaru World Rally Blue, Subaru Metallic Silver, or Red to go with my CRR Logo. Tom put smaller tubes in the corners instead of traditional gussets. They should work as well or better, I think he was showing off his coping & fitting skills. Looking at it up close i can see how this is going to make the chassis super stiff, probably the stiffest 818 chassis on the planet today. :

https://jelj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mQWvA0GmONRd7-62WsOnYgXXVjSboKCItFIAnE-8QTUBfJD48fCKEtzQczVogKKfZ11IS8g_NkXEav06PBEYg_I_9 1eYHvdKLpk6gFO0X4I-4MHtwh1QBWzhOc6I8JHyUcypJz6hfqA2jaUSulSgNCnsQ7SFU1 Q2xA2uVTjpVTiTlkOSjs9bO1bohGGSrkOE-mhsBOdIJcJdIJzYXCqw6Xw?width=1024&height=743&cropmode=none
.
https://iplj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mGMQ8sYNMxCnem5QkPtIX5PF8sKw5SCSImpNMR01b0vFxFYR ab6mF2xXbMDcvDiyJ81uWQ1D7GJdxxfSqT2RdGcApGot6NPWL_ jxzJw7c8FteA0a0gkLwyqgZMpY8W53h2yAwKVxmeJ86rWJCAal tf2O017GLPZmJ2u0i2DzE_10b0tbg4p5gdgYdR6vtKjiBYKi3F FGWEg-Vx5njZ0O8WA?width=1024&height=769&cropmode=none
.
https://iolj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mfp3RukVEsb_HpA-XditWPl1tDfLfskm7QUf5NyvqePktdqnxZIiqzvye_fpBHxhUz bZX9TW0Ulj0yr2M8MA_nNhao9He-FSQhBjNsMK1PuWNdyVLiJywjHTE4F6QThxhXIKOGNU55pu_tGQ J2k0BuckwpIVEdcECj9SNCivuctROv7-6o9gDwVFvB_IDZh5pggfBn4ezCPi2S_sqm7A8iA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none
.
https://ielj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mjSq2ZK0BkqE3aDFz-0cIFXMa-QD-gZc6Hv7o7YSDTnz_5etENcLpw8poL01lz-T2xdAb7CILd-Z2vewWNzDsAYQaLuzE0qkzPU916aSvXcztXsg3OPT6IRcmD8df JY9zilqHW-4XNBONsAzhDgRf6u7Q08wrRWZL2k9niiZ4qNWuncJmAj8dwDgc QxTBFYoBEw1Qr7woHWh1g230timzyQ?width=1024&height=621&cropmode=none

A few shots with body parts just laid up there for a better visualization:

https://hplj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m49_rnpkKpjUGpJeG25z-2oZha0_JmRtTBuOhG9lu1ryU-XAiUR8pQ6DKPqDuNwBg-BjM9nRD35vn5srXMvNzafsUnIeaBMqvWbcch3qg9MyZoAKhc8s w7jLS__vVkKErlpfM8JWMUndfVW-j_GLlsTSrIyKaezV52C1Tb4fE9GoBNIJNE8Q6nSeIs7RZa70q9 QBEF4Ui7K6y9ko7vg--qw?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none
.
https://lolj5a.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mfa77ZB-_tDDIMCoKVHGQDSfrm02dHyzyN5NcJQ1KgiPd_kLDw_C-yi0etMVfdCCGwe5u75LoqjWr0rNhGCrI3eeBl1ohmgIIpOt2Kt v75n4b4mJnKTufrHjdEwPW6nhzSuGccsSdNKtXjA68UmADWxXS b4V9ap67nA73_ASzfP50Yj-tKVbFMXfBBsEZxxbmScIW9xSEBZyRqDWo3E410w?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none
.
https://jejkwq.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mts2kSVo8TWk8U7jeK3XKkJiXvzntim_8OEwu6nbURbwBeX4 f-t8XmXjWi6bRZtwl778IOQHfD-uB1YgJ0EFvODDu1oaJBAJ2lUr3lrYBDgUIfUKZWIFYA96Kfk9T 3-Ce2Aj7yn1qpvCq_7jMJNhxIMuBQP4IDf1A_dp_C6ojPopfeWWh jjJ88kM3xomWw5l-_QVE5wJxXihhbUZ0wZ_b5A?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

So here's where I start to think "Doors..What do I need doors on a R for? I don't need no stickin doors! Then it keeps going...I don't need either of the two rear engine covers...and the rear bumper, to heck with that, it's just a parachute slowing me down....and heck I probably don't need the rear quarter panel/side rails either!

Hindsight

02-06-2018, 07:37 AM

Looking good. You had better get one of Josh's digital dashes for that thing! ;)

Mulry

02-06-2018, 09:46 AM

That's looking very good, Gator. I'd be interested in a kit if Tom wants to sell them too -- at least the circular pieces at the top. I can bend and form everything else myself.

One design question on the forward-going front hoop triangular brace. Why not take that to the node at the top of the roll hoop to intersect that horizontal bar? Was it a concern that would be more restrictive on ingress/egress? Three-way nodes are definitely more difficult from a fitment standpoint, but they are stronger too, so I'm curious about that decision. Cheers!

aquillen

02-06-2018, 11:16 AM

STOUT. I like it.

RetroRacing

02-06-2018, 11:46 AM

WOW!! Well done!!

Sgt.Gator

02-06-2018, 12:11 PM

Looking good. You had better get one of Josh's digital dashes for that thing! ;)

I'm guessing you know he just installed one in my Palatov D4? Here he is setting up the Gear Indicator.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_plMT0iSEZqfxPNLjvj9-SeRAnp9NYbB/view?ts=5a77ebd3

That's looking very good, Gator. I'd be interested in a kit if Tom wants to sell them too -- at least the circular pieces at the top. I can bend and form everything else myself.

One design question on the forward-going front hoop triangular brace. Why not take that to the node at the top of the roll hoop to intersect that horizontal bar? Was it a concern that would be more restrictive on ingress/egress? Three-way nodes are definitely more difficult from a fitment standpoint, but they are stronger too, so I'm curious about that decision. Cheers!

Yes, there was a learning curve to the semi-circular bars. He had a few that didn't bend correctly.

There's two possibilities for making kits:
1) We make a jig and hand cut, cope, and bend the tubes.

2) We use the FF CAD design to include these tubes and have a pro shop that cuts, bends and copes tubes on a CNC system make them for us. I know a shop that does that for the pro teams.
Either way it won't be cheap by the time they are shipped.

And if S builders want a verson too we'd have to borrow an S and do it all again.

Or FF could incorporate a full cage design as an option on future Gen II revisions to the 818.

On the brace question: I don't think that idea came up! It would have either had to angle inwards, or the top bar would have had to come further down the front hoop. Maybe next time! LOL...

STOUT. I like it.

WOW!! Well done!!

Thanks we think so too. I'm pretty confidant that a roll over will be no problem and even a couple of Grand National GT1 cars stacked on top will be survivable!

Sgt.Gator

03-13-2018, 01:03 AM

I put it up on scales tonight to see how the weight had changed. The following weights are sort of Go Kart mode, seats in but not bolted down, the only fiberglass body panels are the front fenders. Besides all the extra tubing adding weight I subtracted some weight out: Deleted the parking brake system, the AWIC is now a FMIC (but no IC pipes yet), the crazy heavy rear trunk oem hinges are tossed out; the 15 lb PC 680 battery replaced with 4 lb EarthX ( I'm a dealer!) .
Added: Fire Bottle.

Brando had taken the dry sump out and sold it, so that weight will be going back in.

https://hpjkwq.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mJYpGp3TswWyk866scrzy7lWxSc2cVnzg_fbryVCWRmpHDbI jRVhrKTvFPTP5Opz4doaGunzzAkDrSL7wVuTk-tYKK66D_gVoIfLAMgOEU1wJ9zXWbg3inoKswprBaxrZcwPn4To z0sz91Slxh9cv_yzm9vUwvNh6vwQ2yYUAuOTEru91mKR47-fuNcN-7nvmeQYFFsCocFii7A81vw0BEA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

No Driver.

Total Weight: 1763 lbs
LF: 345 - RF: 391
LR: 541 - RR: 486

Front: 42%
Rear: 58%

I'll put this in the Post your weight s thread too.

Mitch Wright

03-13-2018, 08:22 AM

Sgt.Gator

03-13-2018, 11:42 AM

I will start a pool on the completed weight with DS, FMIC and body work 1956#
The guess that is the closest will win a NCM Tee. 82507 The shirt will go to the runner-up if I happen to be the closest. :rolleyes:

You're on, I want one of those tee shirts!

Oh wait, I might have an Unfair Advantage...hmm, but Mark Donahue would say go for it!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RDN1E3MQL._SX314_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Hobby Racer

03-13-2018, 11:53 AM

2084 lbs for the win!

Mitch Wright

03-13-2018, 11:55 AM

Gator put your number in now, you're good plus I guess I could give more than one shirt.

Sgt.Gator

03-13-2018, 12:36 PM

Gator put your number in now, you're good plus I guess I could give more than one shirt.

Guess I better weigh this pile of body panels!

That's the 818R's little sister "Pearl" in the foreground. She gained a bit of weight too when we made her Wookie capable. The normal weight was around 950 lbs, when I get the 818R off the lift today I'll get a final ready to race weight. If you ever come to the PacNW Pearl will be at Oregon Raceway Park, ready to rent by the Lap, Hour, or Day.

https://lojkwq.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m3E_f-faE_zWgq_F8gQ7MkSAZfzyhXlOfKesB7dekfHvGplZeaoNKopT gaD3-f_xUNWDDCeJ5r0br6_a0aLLDFgHm85OQWQ6VSzYbz4DGPN9OFD zwjTyQAeD5naOe3dR0pjKpI0b3Cy3sw7Rn5PAaMA_5W9hndL1_ ILXMEMy4DGjh6J4zBQoUmPJYYtn61TRGHjlRz_b9dP1352gUCJ I7OA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

For the Tee shirt contest: Race Weight No Driver, no pass seat, wet: 1,950lbs.

Sgt.Gator

03-14-2018, 04:02 PM

Is anyone aware of a build thread that has this solution?:
Side panels were riveted to the frame. Re-install with some type of quick release fastener like a Dzus, Sparco Hood Pins, Aerocatchs? The doors are bolted on, replace bolts with quick releases? Front and Rear Bumper quick releases?
Overall I want to make it easy to remove as many body panels as fast as possible at the track in minutes.
Thanks!

Wayne Presley

03-14-2018, 10:05 PM

I'll say 2015 lbs

Mitch Wright

03-15-2018, 08:16 AM

So far entries for the Gator 818R weight pool are:
Mitch 1956#
Hobby Racer 2084#
Gator 1950#
Wayne 2015#
Retro 1990#
DanielsDM. 1972#
Weights has to be in 24 hours before Gator post the assembled weight to win the NCM Tee shirt.

RetroRacing

03-15-2018, 10:44 AM

INstall pins sticking down through the bottom door sill, then lean it in at the top to dzus tabs installed at the top for the doors. Super easy to take on and off.
Side panels, install dzus tabs sticking out even with the bottom rail and install wires at the top mounts for the dzus buttons. three at the bottom, two at the top and maybe one on or two on the flat part of the door panel. Just two bolts on each side hold the rear on, so that's easy. The front is more complicated.

Ill see if I can draw something up

Sgt.Gator

03-15-2018, 12:17 PM

Mitch Wright

03-15-2018, 01:34 PM

Retro what is your guess on Gator's weight??

RetroRacing

03-15-2018, 01:39 PM

He looks to be in the 190-200lb range....

RetroRacing

03-15-2018, 01:40 PM

The car, 1990lb dry.

turbomacncheese

03-16-2018, 04:18 PM

He looks to be in the 190-200lb range....

lol'd

Sgt.Gator

03-16-2018, 06:35 PM

He looks to be in the 190-200lb range....

Bingo! 196 this AM. Down from 243 lbs in 2011. Best and cheapest weight I ever took out of a race car. Paleo FTW!

DanielsDM

03-19-2018, 08:42 AM

So far entries for the Gator 818R weight pool are:
Mitch 1956#
Hobby Racer 2084#
Gator 1950#
Wayne 2015#
Retro 1990#
Weights has to be in 24 hours before Gator post the assembled weight to win the NCM Tee shirt.

If the weight pool is still open put me down for 1972#

Mitch Wright

03-19-2018, 12:06 PM

DM you have been added.

Sgt.Gator

04-18-2018, 01:01 AM

Some progress roughing in the DS Tank, DS overflow, and Oil Cooler:

https://hpinkq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m1CJftL4DH3JSyiFpLlzm87g5G1Y3iz5sp_n7ZsrKxhEyKv0 hTVTjQsiroFyb1SwzlBDzgFhxVmXeUJWeBqkvVd5B7yWJR7DRm x6WkmN24cuwppXVUh9iBYG4AoloGkQl6m_9vFf18IpTRuo9GDk uzgxH0QaD0tVvGnQIZiE6sauOvhkIF4dG3tzn35NfaMBXkOtw8 0dLWgRYeOYY2I1NHQ?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://huinkq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mJ00GWXKrR_s8DzkzTqOg2opztjNXHnvhla6qRUu1rf3nDvW TwwzadeJ5uTQEaRLeB1mi3PHf_By9ea8ygQspiSLnojcurYkjd kITH__HleBMOzkqXdWCOHrYc7_lmNojNMfuJSPr6ZZUM0ESN4T 3jb4qwLA33Ucnkqh8ET1FnuCQzlrSEDa6jDNp3eeA8nSwt03wk PDlhJ56bdU5L1FOjg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://ieinkq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mddWPoehwrVNVAa8gQ19CLmBv7oGN2S-EyEB5PcsBWutE0JIJVedQvL-3VJ2I5XAKDNCzgg9U_aZyjTc1CyBucCZzJ66IH0P1os5lwkbZS 20Pj3vvbIiaV-WIrBTxcK-M2zWaG00uwHADlcrAED8726xhTfZ1_YAPIjzOO25ZlDFm-adx0UXeYA9P1IZzUVLtmQwlML1okhB9xDvV4wEneA?width=10 24&height=768&cropmode=none

The cooler is a puller, so it will suck cool air down thru a ducted vent in the trunk lid, thru the cooler, and blow it across the top of the tranny.

I really like the Aviaid tank, for the money I think it's a much better deal than a Peterson.

RetroRacing

04-18-2018, 12:22 PM

Looks great, I assume you will clock the tank to point the bottom feed line at the pan, everything works from then on. we went through two iterations of plumbing before I was happy with clearances. We also just replumbed the whole breather system! what a pain, but it's what they said was needed to stop blowing seals.

Sgt.Gator

04-18-2018, 03:55 PM

Sgt.Gator

04-22-2018, 10:29 AM

The FMIC piping has started:

https://loinkq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mTlO8RTphvwg_kn98ZSmJxx_sAAfzngItw3zvefUv3jo9oWR Zu7e6eR7G2pN7CafcQ6dThcgkdHtZITreyP2w0xs-gf3wnrBlnAjVFsBj_NvKG8z4-ETMwaAc4eRfHf6ZrJk3XnPsPZ39-788kqPUJim46z0VTWSOUk43KELAwlKss18oxRaMaIuseg6XS5z Wpqau7q4Yl3lsNbNkGtjKfA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Aero STI

04-22-2018, 07:55 PM

Sgt.Gator

04-23-2018, 01:35 AM

What direction is your intake manifold pointed? You might consider rotating it so the throttle body is pointed toward the front of the car to shorten the intercooler piping path slightly.

The DS tank location looks good. One of the main motivations for going low mount on my turbo was that I didn't want even more weight on the driver side of the car.

It's pointed to the rear - stock- direction. It's hard to set up a reverse intake manifold with the DS pump in the A/C spot. And I don't want to mess with pulling the manifold off now anyway.

RetroRacing

04-23-2018, 10:58 AM

Pushing out the seals. too much blow by on new builds while the rings are seating.

Sgt.Gator

04-27-2018, 07:17 PM

More FMIC progress. Josh at ArcFlash here in Bend is doing the TIG work. Some others here are using his dash solution. Here's a shout out for him. www.arcflashllc.com

Passenger (Cold) side with the hood on:

https://jelcnq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m30Ox5OQ_bLRrdCxEzDrB-xjOzX0fMjJ_q1D3CJlMDBnJSQxmtsNd_e9lHWiJMtuFtBGgDvm wrlJ7yVJfs7FLbJf4GGPvx1EC9Qt-_abRPG-ugVmdPU6RJkyFABjzhN1cikls5YPLffJ_kL51rPvASm5CWfBW9 g1fo3TaApHFesie1q6I52_h2XODsz6GJqlkjbVAeffAv37-uadK80Lwbg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Driver Hot Side with Hood and Wheel/Tire:

https://jolcnq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m43EOt7nveQbNKrWrB49p2812ZeJqVGARbfR-zb1DQLSDC60ZQe1LEs7oHOmh-u-dgEu3cV39I-96TFiI5rvP1GJu7D8-B-MUrVdX2L-lfXCoMV7xxvCClmbddTXxWAVOcCp_zcKfRfpzDOiQofiXiObcV B8vx-RvdHoOWyp3DZ6YxywzLDxL1EpYxiKAJNOdg6S5dwQtHoW_uXMW 9hBoaA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

04-28-2018, 12:27 PM

Side Piping:

https://iplcnq.by.files.1drv.com/y4md6nvlLb37ELFje_EQGqVtRiyDwTs1ubxFug7baQADNlGtRt 2AAa8TollGPv6ANxTq_-FpYy5DzN8DdgGduz_2OB6RnJgjx10ZVTpiMZJ2b1IRwFt8nWee q3HzW_TAzEsF3SSWMzYPdasTUC84DvHPUK2hzlnvGil3iOWoNS yi-BboxPt3ZhjlMp_qlFwXvneGDmM2NgW0_LEvi1HRF3C5w?width =1024&height=768&cropmode=none...https://iulcnq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mJfNXZtWcLIf_Tj9I1HEvouQxVzdRDiw8yx0uh6R_Q2T3tcJ A6-tu53l-PbnJt5XJo_NtzugI3iO8Iv3vfuvGQA_B8fo1W-s96WuvC4hkeSsfYnOki5zBIEap4wnSS8Tg60uWpekwMjyMmyux Y_tNJng8tyiI2lAiDA10pgSrOKiuCwHr0ZOxv9bElmBL9cgJGT FDT1ar0OXwtokgh1mjxw?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

04-28-2018, 01:01 PM

Here's forum member Biknman's Halo cage in progress. Great minds think a lot alike, independently!:

https://iolcnq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mqetEkqaKwJryka3_ir8ZrcUtcnGUlZ2_TZCAancIUwMMYCc IQVuoYrqq--R9DFmh2EMF-dWRjzmFkaQgmr2aWpYFiwEbsg-6wOrfShXsBGqq_GqxsRSXDRJhJ1CWImkKjH8u25HrtcFEhxENE lvPepqF1ZTKFyruEV9yghC-T1vhoXxWA2lVhgi-DEnsVuAm1M1EB8_mM8DiHlTzzEzUtA?width=960&height=720&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

05-01-2018, 01:34 PM

More Progress!

https://uittqa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mKM5fJKyqm9xxerA5hQCH5-gw1G1bMHqvvnfJdZQVUX1BGsHr3dWB1crvYHUzfd2g0QfyG8AI DPbE-9URrUQm5obHdbS5RUwZNkgmJQOZn76bm16Xsfek28fZ9rjzcIq YIcXcR_M1hvIZ5mAjK5HBEYbsJbcvou_8uJtqUSpswSxt-K2r8vUauLRJ8ad7hkq4Rp29YB6MhZ4KaXbnfbCD5w?width=10 12&height=759&cropmode=none..https://tyttqa.by.files.1drv.com/y4myxSooCdmpCzebftRhyGCEW3ZEp7doFK5GRW--IyV92e8qLckueuQCApIi6phM3WQDuNK9S-F0OFCpi5TqJqDRvGwDCn2wtmu-EaeuTfuDoPwKznxwKxCQE67sFbNXHzCJV-74gc28xqc75-gNfcz6MzeeWi_An43AwsxIiuxRqXfL_-B-_3VuQjwEimdEdaHkssdM12PH0fMGtXqZRSR7g?width=759&height=1012&cropmode=none..https://tottqa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mcWc6RKKvIZhkDviXnle0V2aZ61Jf7nnJScfPyPqbKSES6tP MT7x1LwFoE0oCCL0jP9t4v5Y0jzuea9a3bY2G2wmoGWH3s61WN KsugqUvUoJjGD6O81U4tF2MhzIEnxL-QUMtr3hfP8odMisj9qkjjTX6O-9FfO4uHqW0WYz9CRLTANMO44KX6e6dj-ND0GQF-pAa3Fyth0E4SeP4heZXQw?width=1012&height=759&cropmode=none..https://w4ttqa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mZgwCzWsTV8xaen8TDbZpRT5q3w9NHJ9_sLxvYrXGzFPc40l 2ZcuUANFXcH91Inhl5jgaWlop7K_DqiWpNgZaQtCbCA9TzJup_ EC_L8vG0hXBDqjhYe9q_EaS6GbJlKrgw2mNrSsljaySlRviwa1 vsppheNGi-ERwp1ZZS1UqLcaKm3CPZxqO3g4owfw0rBChCu9ieiEBpcUXZVh 2nBg1FQ?width=1012&height=759&cropmode=none..https://xittqa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mSLlZnWrK5R9i2eQh18mYXGMBp8iUrleQJtspMq1S_q06hxu TCN6jJezUDu34fW_tYVt221ZH2crkTaw0MFSblj-7TheGi4xxtTc5PEOF56K2ajO-CgSN2DWvjZSmVHM8cufl7WxfRJ2HOzd7JfaU6jvEDOLo7Gg2N6 GoDKtbmzspbolHaCrf4ecVUBSu2h6M-vadgMRW8sThpULHjgjXBQ?width=1012&height=759&cropmode=none

Mitch Wright

05-01-2018, 02:02 PM

Looks good, that’s a lot of plumbing. Looking forward to a performance report. Wayne was pretty happy with the Fmic on the FFR car.
Also want to hear how the 17mm OEM bar works for you. I am really pleased with the performance of the .095x.750 bar I have been playing with.

DanielsDM

05-01-2018, 02:30 PM

Good work on the IC piping. I'm doing something similar. One of these days I'll get around to updating my build thread.:p

Zach34

05-02-2018, 01:11 AM

That's a lot of tube. Can't wait to hear if there's any effect on lag.

C.Plavan

05-02-2018, 09:59 AM

That's a lot of tube. Can't wait to hear if there's any effect on lag.

I'm interested also. I'm working on a 2.3L ecoboost hybrid motor for the NP01 (future motor). I would run tubes to the right sidepod for the intercooler. Or I could keep it simple and go 2.5L NA. :P What is "simple"?

129st

05-02-2018, 10:59 AM

I'm interested also. I'm working on a 2.3L ecoboost hybrid motor for the NP01 (future motor). I would run tubes to the right sidepod for the intercooler. Or I could keep it simple and go 2.5L NA. :P What is "simple"?

Chad, I remember some time back we were discussing the 2.3L ecoboost has as a motor for the 818R. Now you have a different car, but still considering the engine. I recommend the turbo over the NA - higher power and more tunable. I like your side pod intercooler idea.

C.Plavan

05-02-2018, 11:15 AM

Chad, I remember some time back we were discussing the 2.3L ecoboost has as a motor for the 818R. Now you have a different car, but still considering the engine. I recommend the turbo over the NA - higher power and more tunable. I like your side pod intercooler idea.

Not to hijack Gators thread, The research on the Ecoboost is that you want a Hybrid 2.3L. You use a 2.0L Focus case and the 2.3L internals. The 2.0L case is closed deck, and now that the Mustang 2.3L has be out awhile, they are seeing some issues around the turbo area of the case and head gasket stuff at higher power levels. Even then- I would take an Ecoboost motor over a Subi motor from my experience. We are all just seeing too many issues with the Subi.

NA would be "drop in" and simple. Ecoboost would require intercooler plumbing, custom header, airbox mods, heat management and real ducting (which I dislike since I had a bad experience with my 818R). So not that simple. Worth noting the Elan Engineers are a great help supplying any info I ask for (Aero, dimensions, etc)
Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss more. I don't want to take up Gators thread.

Mitch Wright

05-02-2018, 12:05 PM

My EJ runs and performs great. Gator get that thing done. anymore takers on guessing the weight of his beast? One of a kind NCM Fruit of the Loom Tee is up for grabs. Ok maybe not one of a kind but do have the choice of Red, Blue or Black

Sgt.Gator

05-07-2018, 04:38 PM

A couple of udates.
Newly Rebuilt Ej257 in my STI with an Aviaid dry sump has done 3 hours of lapping at ORP on a break in tune (12 psi, 5,500 RPM limiter). Friday it went back to Surgeline for it's race tunes. Saturday I took it to Portland International for the first race of the season, but with the sole goal of competeing only in the one hour Enduro at wastegate pressure (12psi) to finish off the break in and get used to wheel to wheel racing again. It was actually pretty relaxing to not worry about how I qualified or if I would place. Made for a stress free Saturday.

Practice, qualifying, and most importantly the one hour Enduro went off without a hitch!

I was running waste-gate spring pressure, about 12 psi all day. It was really tempting to go to 20 psi for the race but I forced myself to keep my goal in mind. To break in the engine, watch the temps, listen to the sounds, and finish the race! All accomplished.

I went 100% on the 12 psi and had no problem keeping up with my buddy Zack in his Spec E46. I hung on his bumper for three laps. Then I noticed my gas was going fast and I wasn't going to make it the entire hour on a full tank at that rate. Part of the plan was to see if I could go a full one hour on the 12 psi tune. Well not at PIR in a no chicane race. So I backed off to 80% throttle and concentrated on watching gauges, and not getting taken out by the faster cars. I also worked on maxing out my corner speeds and other little things.

Coolant never went over 190. The tranny maxed out at 160 (I have a tranny cooler) . Oil pressures were good, even during the mandatory pit stop for 60 seconds it stayed at 25 psi on idle. It's never done that before after a hard run. The oil temp stayed under 200 almost to the very end.

The last 5 mins I kicked it back to 100% WOT to see what kind of lap time I could set at that psi. After the checkered flag I noticed the oil temp had hit 230. I'm thinking the Perrin headers were probably glowing cherry red at the end of the non chicane front straight and heating the oil filter. The headers are plain, Perrin won't warranty them if you wrap or coat them. So I'll get a standoff DEI wrap on the headers and I've found this for the oil filter:
https://cdn.heatshieldproducts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/365x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/o/i/oil-filter-heat-shield.jpg

It's funny, the Corvette guys have been using this type solution for years and I knew that but sometimes my thick head compartmentalizes my NA LS-7 solutions from my Turbo EJ257.

They don't make one for our small size, so I'm trying the next size up, 504703.

https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/lava-oil-filter-heat-shield

The Mobil1 M1-108 filter for our EJs is 2 1/2" tall x 2 1/2" diam. 200 grams.

The K&N HP1008 filter is 3" tall x 2 1/2" diameter, but only because of the wrench nut. The actual filter media size is the same. 210 grams

The Purolator Boss PBL 14615, the filters I use now, are 20% larger at a full 3" tall x 2 1/2" diameter. They are also substantially heavier at 252 grams.

The low on gas light came on just as I entered the pit lane, perfect timing! When that light comes on I only have about 1 or 2 laps before cornering forces cause superlean conditions.

I'll be adding an auxiliary fuel cell just for the one hour enduro problem. The extra 4 gallons should get me all the way thru a race at 20 psi.

On other notes:
The Auto Blip worked great. It's not as smart as a GCU, it has it's limitations, but it sure worked nice. Made for very smooth and consistent shifts in most corners. You still have to manually blip with your foot in some conditions, specifically when you downshift but don't use the brakes. The AB only works when you are applying the brakes. For now I recommend it for track and race cars.

Also in the race were a Stohr and a Radical. OMG that Stohr was fast! He would come out of nowhere, faster than even the corner workers could get out their passing flags to let you know he was coming. I almost took him out in Turn 6. I didn't know he had come up next to me, he's so low and fast he was all of the sudden there as I went to the corner exit. I later heard he was passing everybody on the outside of turn 6. I think he lapped the second fastest car which was ungodly fast too. He really needs a flashing light on top of his roll bar if he's going to keep doing Enduros with the Tin Tops.

I'm glad I installed one on Pearl, my Palatov D4. A 1,000 lb car has no chance against a 3,500 lb one when they don't see you. It's not so much an issue at HPDE days where most organizations require point bys, but in racing it's different. Whenever I saw him coming I would try to give him a point by just to be sure he understood I knew he was there.

Two cool cars in the paddock. The AMG broke his CF nose splitter in qualifying so he had to take out his backup car, the Mustang GT4. The Mustang was the second fastest car in the Enduro and still got lapped by the Stohr, maybe more than once.

https://uorucq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mOZlu08yw38Qa6ElNgSFUIOLrElzxuqjvQ5vYTkKbg7N7UoF V_awziXSWOaGHjvzMnTBbNp1Zu9gSGN2Qkhoe83ZQulU906gUw Dz0dxLG1hdIqmi8D9JjWqfkNVSb1WMtSQ5pZDHEWPr-932rDfqbYWIO0Uszb0Jl3BGCRZzEielvpgR24WU5eEhCqNEXJ2 rhLiSTwlEnDYhN0vwWKav5MQ?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

05-07-2018, 04:49 PM

Progress!

https://torucq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mbStIpoCtCmQgEQSQm2HZHfjvQ6ipY_tCkGu0grO6-iazEcqEsBe5RTEPTgq1v7T2TCBBnqmXaEUy7V8F-r0ZH-jse8laGNEpxD_BIMsG-qvCSYbM47NaqyGtYLDwk93rCDLkRu6Fl210Jgg10go6XgNHKTU TrcZcLH-RpavBc-9Tc-8MuUVIV0wL04AP8DIy8rZYo5UywDXTsbmiZXNm9A?width=102 4&height=768&cropmode=none..https://t4rucq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mTKfoB5F5JnE-LHebbliSAgZ47wrbOs09wwK8IHR_hE__ULE6jLo9ka8LcXq4lR cRta-usNygtMa-I_tFd2NQaum7nBcChsIRy6oKy5Llzzgn-0IU_HSeWFlAxnx5SUY2x_RF3WeByQTWY0eh3O4eTtBH4zKsQaO nV89_kVFGekiEFa-2avdxcKYFd8ZeY7TqDGjmbQAFM8IBl6J6p6c1WA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://uirucq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mOGW3ZBEqcYGEdZCEu6lKl3CfsB6D0dcJiOMKxm-e7HhN8jQYxt-Jdr6XNgCwIjnDyWEtqqVOXm_DKrvOI66NZ-fYqvWaC5mSaFFw8PvMqlcaTBlCwpirhAsrtqCwU1nGAzVIhX3h Oqn4tA2FOM-t6lo74r7x9kDWTlUi-OlVl4ToW-wqCMju94BxsYRAPVZadZMT4jKVW8J4V39qtghqFQ?width=102 4&height=768&cropmode=none..https://tyrucq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m2atSUd6M2z1BsRPifzOeiAdAdjVzTE6JDwmOSuw9ep0HSk4-_KuWpTWJz9z6vS3pqBAApxNuImTxdOK99f1WKSVS6siX3tWaNc 4cDo9j4w8ARZJ_wS-5f3QQ_sC2XqqCZ-DJA7CzdWcJYvOaXFcxDQJtFodiHAITpUk7qno1n0yZd3RwqPmf E58XRCCExYybbCPe_x5UgHTMSEBIsXf1uA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Zach34

05-08-2018, 12:21 AM

Mitch Wright

05-08-2018, 09:06 AM

Sounds like a fun weekend Gator.

RetroRacing

05-08-2018, 11:47 AM

Looks great! Glad to hear all went well. Personally, I would stay away from wrapping the header, that's where our oil fires started, soaked the header and caught fire. We ceramic coated everything now and are hoping for the best.

Sgt.Gator

05-12-2018, 10:24 AM

That's great to hear how well your STI ran - just need to translate that to an 818R.

Looks like you will have a lot more peace of mind with the new cage. I did a lot of modifications to get my seat low enough to pass the broomstick test. Now, as I am fitting the body panels, I wonder if I might be sitting almost too low to see over the hood - heh...

If you go too low it also causes issues with the shoulder straps not being at least horizontal or down 20 degrees to the cage mount. We are actually raising my seat slightly back up off the floor because of that.

Sounds like a fun weekend Gator.
It was! And I got a nice surprise a few minutes ago. I took Second Place in the Mini Enduro! I had no idea, but two other faster cars than me had problems.

The above Red Mustang GT4 took 1st place in our MEO class. The car that was in 2nd place, a white Porsche GT3 from Canada who I raced against in the Enduro last year at Spokane, must have had a problem somewhere during the race because he completed 37 laps. Unfortunately for him I completed 39! LOL!

And I ran a pretty decent fastest lap time even on wastegate boost, a 1:20.7. That was the fourth fastest lap time of the 21 cars in the race. Turn up the boost Mr Scott!

Next race is May 19-20 at Pacific Raceways outside Auburn WA. I guess I better be there in the Mini Enduro on Saturday May 19, I'm in second spot for the championship! Hope to see some of you PAC NW guys there. (Retro & Tony !!!)

Hmm, I may have to run in the ST class too, give those guys some competition!

Looks great! Glad to hear all went well. Personally, I would stay away from wrapping the header, that's where our oil fires started, soaked the header and caught fire. We ceramic coated everything now and are hoping for the best.

Perrin specifically denies warranty claims for wrapped or coated headers so that's not going to happen. But the standoff shields are OK. And I got the oil filter cozy, I'll be doing some garage experiments on it. Did you figure out what caused your last issue?

Sgt.Gator

05-12-2018, 10:45 AM

Joshua Murray at Arcflash is doing some great work on the 818R. Here's his ducting progress for the FMIC and Radiator:

https://viqxqq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mBAp36ArS5Qs5gWPgUn8kqj5D50LfvQnyXfX1NHYWaK1hWaW exjhGPUl2oWna0wScHEVBQQeRkvNyWAMHl13GN8sYv_m4WotKE uQOqd09jbzZKaCKD_CSGQLoBQvtTy-deITUb3GiEOmvHfFvrFachjjPPCjxhuXfbqiCaQ1DbCBQPGHGn G7PAGcWTxjZHo1AZYRH7DMscHrEV9_e3PxyXQ?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none..https://uyqxqq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mjnLyPH7BGFHD-LiYQDW-vfIdPuvF7qC_KVUjoI9SpZRPau4jOdOG1O7UkrctkMWZukAvAR NjAM2PMXVmnGvjc2IswkWskCX3HBtzffzTSw2WdJ6r_lhb9wMM Ih5Nml1CBW44HPN8IQNPyei5UzbdOxoFsR1awiQFh7bnPhgYhk RScwFn8yBerq9_yAjLMzWnC7WwhylqLTp8MlPd4_VhWw?width =1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://uoqxqq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mxy7UY5FZqwQv2mHXS8j-QOhx-m0U3mdo0qg-dJDkmGBQUvCfDOri0s2zwA67A5olEbdH-J67H0186cajfwF8R-J0SJvHyUeaWc_glsb0jqZIbU7g5LZMxJib6uOKZZRsi6jAOFjK nBaxA0ATEgB0Cwr-wxd0qoRVU-R0AT5anDDscCRO7EOq0xq8FVGNPVPKEQ5NasCM0IjYYYo-rScpVA?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://t4qxqq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mIwLBnKk2yo5X8Ndx5Ch2M9a390yrMwHpJ8FfazB_9OJgpKg JVlaXHhHulw8-R9tb9WvjPIrE-PB8Pdw65QtNWq29uYqgriJ7zWxJ1u5LoyxNa4DdEZ72lsrQjOX PutGRAaGfisUqOGubSWZSngr6dSV2onNb-cEdYmMAUQmQ_hkjGVlkMqxoKn0ZO1gVQ-VZds8MTeRLxF3_Qtf2yCCOlQ?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

And to pay for Josh's work don't forget to order your Murray Constant Tension Turbo Seal Clamps from my eBay page! Here's a recent ProDrive built WRC Audi, they've been using the Murray clamps for many years on all their builds:

https://wfzxhw.by.files.1drv.com/y4makbD32eYUpmRUdjLimsMKoYfvZT6a3U6EDzPosFumoxeOlf mg7W5LWXzT5bB2CXdOfWXMstXPj0v_nRB-VvU1ZrVBO17mmGd5hrvvuHQPBztZkEa9FaqFM-Ks4er11YrLl6ayrApQgnCFgIUMNR6FkVFxlSW8qtsoy35VcKnM UzDWyD3qBPvPcm0d7MwttHAqdWPiSbTYM8G5kMMHyhZYA?widt h=1024&height=677&cropmode=none

http://stores.ebay.com/colonelredracing

RetroRacing

05-14-2018, 03:09 PM

See you at Pacific. We are testing on Friday in hopes we can run the endure on Saturday, at 6-7k rpm, at 7psi which will make us slow but still want more hours on the engine before turning it up.

No idea where the oil came from, can't get it to leak by revving it, so we think it must be happening under load/high g conditions (pulling over 2g's in the corners and under braking). looking at the blockoff plate for the oil fill now, to see if that is the issue.

Sgt.Gator

05-14-2018, 06:56 PM

Mitch Wright

05-15-2018, 07:59 AM

Looks like we will have a final weight soon.

Sgt.Gator

05-15-2018, 11:28 AM

Looks like we will have a final weight soon.

I'm taking the rebuilt STI to Pacific this weekend. The 818R is still about 3 weeks out, but soon!

Sgt.Gator

05-22-2018, 11:45 AM

Here's why on the full halo cage, particularly if I'm instructing students, I want us to be Safe first. Fast second.

This last weekend at the SCCA Majors - Portland International Raceway. Luckily the driver on the bottom was ok!

https://virnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mGgGiycw9yrOG4fmZQqjOZCXG09p58S959pKqWSKF-bK97xMTsqH67bEPrAhn199h8aGrO4vVo-gaDqnJOrBbyhpDZMxt9uQxPJkYi5GIsrwK_7zvG6TnZLbktUpt 6c_GHb8IPNhn6RtoUAVXAMj92m-QcFdXo-4RloOrKL4UX2tydwQvIH4oEY9LslORCYMEa15g3oAJOnX_8uvR gxAV9Q?width=1024&height=726&cropmode=none

C.Plavan

05-24-2018, 09:51 AM

Sgt.Gator

05-24-2018, 12:14 PM

5 F4 cars racing in the Group 3 Formula Atlantic class. This was Race 1 on Saturday. All the results/lap times are here: https://www.scca.com/events/1990424-super-tour-poir-oregon-region

The wreck is causing a bit of controversy. The driver on the bottom is last year's National Champ, the driver on top is a kid in his F4 This occurred at the start going into the first turn chicane. Lots of folks not happy about it.

Sgt.Gator

05-27-2018, 12:23 PM

Josh at ArcFlash is making good progress on ducting and fire system:

Door Vents almost done. A little more ducting to do:
https://xirnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mYsLLX4CCQespj4I-XkkeGo33vKXrlet_wy3qIvjFXwEqZN1KGAVG5BJ0ouAvFBpH8X NummkGRzQxmHNrre0yZWsBfdWAuphzcuXXUW8eVmxiQITNlLzt vZojfTAcGoWZXc69xiz3ekInHHkxo-16_2KhLbSPtIlyWzcTaEjLjsqM6I3Bjt1TfU1J7hMwAQuXjrAO lSYHLrn2VR4fq25UDQ?width=646&height=720&cropmode=none

Fire System installed with nozzles in the cockpit, upper engine bay, lower engine bay, and fuel tank:
https://uirnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mOF3CBVu3nK5PZe3V_bVe5KFpL_MxaTVic0MUCpz8gBY31zk i5nGi372QBdIkC9pFkXEsTjR4EfckmCr2jMx3Oedu4nzCscQtW Jn1F1x-cx2Jh87EoUKSkX7B4pIdZSGmwKpwvtWG2shuN13hfjemCu20yW oBx3RHVDB283dTq33iZRNV3vHYCHv5xM2sBIdDbEBGP1TAjRmD SMpjsFQLNg?width=672&height=504&cropmode=none
https://uornkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4m9qsj4N-MrCXD4bSHQSV9UDHZmi2CLR2RWgq3Y82hKXx1gxlQeboetC6Jd vaLc1FrMKY2Inor2AyfPHVKN5JMuJr7HHgTrW4TOoz3AjQxkpm OYh7_s1vB5Sws-pN45l_IVCU2dIbycuPhqBLlR1sAYTauZiJT0JYE6HLLH3s-9Oy0FsgMEqqIILMvAqvF_ztYIbPnsgU0RzIR90B9oHQCWg?wid th=486&height=648&cropmode=none

https://tyrnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mqDrXe3qtpR_Szs2-Hc_zx8KHqmzPhukGLakVIkivTw9_oIkSidCfSL69-i1Uuv1NnPq4sKRQo5jeSowL5zLZb_HeBEfSoLLbwA7I4YLb0Y-nkKVpdI5F8PlBpPybk5glWOXcFeHEKbB4VHR7xnlh0NtA3u94O 0gtR7gT94H-hVQJ2Jt0zg3HalFH70PuS7mkWwi-1lpWS0V6vzp8XwLl6w?width=718&height=576&cropmode=none..https://w4rnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mECn16BEXlf3AGDmcUTkSX2WmBuAzZgjTKW6bUn_zlkYP83M F70PvM44bZdQdBfvMpSsPTKGp5ivJL25Zi7Q3t_GVdoGwz6Hni 3hY1S-BZeFUsULxjHF0g2m9xI6Bgyo_UYkHumb55n3DI4lFnlNht9UvN ul2GaRKqyXJNkxNZdcX3fCTZEkxZ_hhSrG5oBK2hgke-J5MDnO8bcn0qLfakg?width=680&height=576&cropmode=none..https://uyrnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mTt7QebeEIe3SXGdisSjDGE_8r4X4pC9a7CFpSSS35Fh22u_-DEkJsbqGzsw6TH9O94TEmr8gEkrJSAUDVawENG0u8JpnFTnPl3 MjdGHYh9xNcURSt5ZN1y770l-OYNhlBAj5mVgjVKfJV_nxmW2S6L2WJOurKyuxBGpNHbm5MXaRL jhdTmXB-u91DsnmeCqLleDQArmTUIAtkoud5y4qhw?width=767&height=576&cropmode=none

The doors, side panels. and rear panels are all being converted to metric bolts for quick removal/installation at the track.
Shouldn't be long now!

RetroRacing

05-28-2018, 02:40 PM

Sweet!! can't wait to see it on track

Sgt.Gator

05-28-2018, 02:56 PM

My Fast Lap at Pacific Raceways in the Enduro
https://youtu.be/6UV9KxArunM

And a few laps the next day during the ST race. My fastest lap of the weekend is in there, an official 1:32.871 on the timing system. https://youtu.be/Xhjdx8w5Frs

Mitch Wright

05-28-2018, 03:22 PM

Thanks for the laps down memory lane, loved racing at Kent (Now Pacific Raceway) when I lived out west. Track hasn't changed much other than if I remember correctly the road course use to come on to the drag strip just past the Christmas tree, MUCH better now.

Rob T

05-28-2018, 09:11 PM

Thanks for the videos Gator. That track is really nice looking. Lots of long straights. It's always educational watching and listening to you drive.

Sgt.Gator

06-02-2018, 11:52 AM

Not specific to my 818R but related:

STI Update:The Short Version: Oil in the Coolant - No racing this weekend.

The Long Version: On the way to PIR I stopped by ORP to bed in my brake pads. The first session at PIR is Qualifying, not a good time to be bedding in pads, the other driver's don't appreciate 100 to 10 mph stops for no reason on the straights!

When that was finished I parked the car and heard gurgling in the coolant overflow tank. A lot of gurgling. And it kept gurgling. After 10 minutes the gurgling slowed down and I pulled the yellow cap off to see the chocolate brown color and floaters of oil in the coolant. Crap, head gasket seal failure!

I went on to Portland and dropped the car off at Surgeline. We suspect that the block's pulled threads repair and heads installation done at Rallispec has failed. Of course that's only speculation until we dig into the engine further.

Looking back I might have suspected something was going wrong when I had the positive psi in the crankcase under sealed dry sump vacuum. At the time I thought it was the 2 stage DS not keeping up with the loose built forged block. Now I suspect the repaired threads were starting to fail after a few heat cycles and the combustion gas was starting to slip out.

Check List Modification: After every full day of track practice or racing use my head gasket CO2 sniffer to catch issues early, rather than just before a race. It will now be part of my standard post race inspection.

I have to add this is not a Subaru issue, it could/has happened on LS and Coyote blocks, all traceable back to the ARP TQ issue. That caused the block to be repaired, and that repair could have failed on any race engine.

Worth a revisit:
Damage Alert: How to Avoid Pulling Threads or Killing Head Bolts
By JEFF SMITH JANUARY 26, 2018
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/machine-work-assembly/damage-alert-how-to-avoid-pulling-threads-or-killing-head-bolts/

Sgt.Gator

06-07-2018, 06:44 PM

Given Rob T's recent experience, and the fact all my other race cars always seem to work much better with them, we are taking the opportunity while everything is easily reachable to install front brake ducts.
We are using oem C6 Z06 ducts, a bit of 3" hose, and a rectangular inlet duct. The inlet duct will be permanently mounted to the front bumper. The hose will be attached to it, but only stuffed inside the Z06 duct. That way I can pull the front bumper off without having to unconnect the front ducts, the hose will just slide out of the Z06 duct. And vice versa for putting the front bumper back on. For now there will be no hose from the Z06 duct to a backing plate on the hub, we'll add that later if deemed needed.

The bumper will be cut out at the red line to match the duct inlet. The outboard holes in the bumper will be taped up until I think of a use for them too.

Pics:

https://toqcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mpXkAEP2ozc2PruSfrdudrUB6xKW59ibJpnH8jX-dg43c5M8Ae2lNo0F5fk7viZz9x6sUdFGwT7eL4paekGJcN8x8A UB74OKnhS1xRm1IOo5oiZHvh628UAbId_DKlpyhTQP7M8i2xRN ZS2_38TS4ovZXAXmy6VwdItxKi-WOXaKsfYoACDkSJGiApSRa--YA_D72ZNKLmnOVueYfowdxIw?width=864&height=483&cropmode=none....https://w4qcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mA4TzFpg3XG9KYwEqeK53Qwnxg0T32J5fbbIrVmNcg-BxQRvWCwjNJTeDSyFj9aCkL5orgyackuY-KDjz8KmtFWysSoJqn9dZAIowpxrAmI4doB2N36r2xeoIB_vRcK mmUL0JocQ2gKCVGfchUoQnHVmMM3CTPeqqmRtcD1NIqKrY0M2q aJc9w7BEm98ONI0Z_-3rOrYArKBmBFQLLBKDjA?width=864&height=484&cropmode=none....https://tyqcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mB_-0tW0lGoCQpeLTYOmvirJxBG0-E2o07rjm72XcgkmVOW06xdNf9PEsG3zIlg2MqoxRFC0p62-jnG2Be4JUivCoVMVVkrFLyv2u-nFw8t4oLb769oov8DF-Gyx76ay1nuOQOmJTjaJ_kV4STlh53Zm-SZgL8IdF8hzPOCkDlLHOitaP4dj9DDDiqQ_A_YYP8mhqbqnlsd gqTZCCAVBECg?width=736&height=864&cropmode=none...https://uiqcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mK2X1-u5cZz_ASG1hldxDZC-W2jiXr4r3IZij4MVAktAZkQ21re5MFk8GjZyS6MIsiF0TyuWxS 5mD9BXz4UlRGCoYphXP8FmmyckagP_kl_2F3LxKoBzdNqiXTKG 5nZe3K9rflJtwDZmeWgNTQd_av9ihmobPeFj1QytdP2rBGgplE LbNaz2ex7afoQd75g1pRElJpO8F91YixBNDReRBzw?width=86 4&height=648&cropmode=none...https://t4qcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m0AA_TCGunx_g0dI23uE4BhhWvHQbpTlffJw3FZvI5BEQ3g9 DwHJTweNqLStWfq5ReGaDofVlR9Qlf2aFe-OEriP2qTifz9rrQuRWYFekQfEAnWX0crXoHE6Xen3QmWMscHH3 ndrF8T9VTtjBWQLrg22Mxel68h0qzzY0m1WSrkP__MWByDf-GIPHAxrrZplBvHM5fVx_glqipeAMKPE2zA?width=792&height=510&cropmode=none

Another Kudo to Josh Murray at ArcFlash for taking my concept and making it reality! https://www.arcflashllc.com/

metros

06-08-2018, 08:04 PM

Pretty clever with how you're attaching the front intake to the ducting for easy removal/install. I'll be interested to see what difference those make.

Sgt.Gator

06-10-2018, 03:34 PM

Pretty clever with how you're attaching the front intake to the ducting for easy removal/install. I'll be interested to see what difference those make.
I'll get some caliper temp paint and run blocked and open to see if they make a difference.

Cuts Made:

https://xiqcnw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mdaMuZpPpt1Ww0JtZb6PrssfcjMsXAsYBw8WrHP7vmim0zvl 4uqcBf_J1CvVAy-aLK5QoBhxfrmM5Q2xWE0aFofxjl7oVpVFZkQVIeTJb3oBK7EId 8LUBmH6ocznxKVHTR_gAsj2XNHgZKRN7FU2R-keUvHvmYEhdMtpsvmum7zbJvjVaf4OqfsJR63GqBb227Tzix9V MFcWXmxJMl6r8UA?width=864&height=421&cropmode=none

Hindsight

06-10-2018, 04:49 PM

Should get gobs of air to the brakes from those big vents.

RetroRacing

06-11-2018, 10:37 AM

Nice!

Sgt.Gator

06-16-2018, 02:22 PM

The Front Hood Ducting is almost finished on the 818R. There will be rubber seal around the duct to hood interface. Josh at Arcflash has done some great work on the 818. When he's done with his part we'll swap the 818 for my STI. I'll take the 818 home to install the dry sump system and the fuel -AN lines, meanwhile he'll pull the STI engine out and we'll figure out why it's got oil in the coolant.

https://totfbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mVbp5rr0SthtPnSLdaarHY7qDUD5FZuiBGhMkJcCz2Zf-XOSh7flu_xFXwdUvq497bRXvRHuMjDJzhbpnvfIQ2_8dgsuQUO oRTkDsYSvHpA1oHp1SUgDMiueMy9-fts6B43wA3oE0SSb9dpbcYVcRIRXOKN8WaeT44A0ouDlJIubUc zcnti2lNt_pQBdsil3GUUECYLa8ArVSvhEoXLWm1Q?width=74 9&height=864&cropmode=none..https://w4tfbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mUByKhT2jnw4TRcxacDOTxU_4-nXRO7oO-DH1zMFw-Cs88S51fC6GP7KPP-Ht1vgSV1vUz82SQRdAMix29U--cGtbBOeGwKyHlP9ThoSvQEnBhYNzKnGizvXvx0F0B6_iskxXQ2 2tgwiQ3h1rWyXhCJDx54RjAyz53sT3UaZMZuBNBNdbrl7-41CZswc0j6j_HFMhkjeSAUkbuIHUIrl-pQ?width=759&height=864&cropmode=none..https://tytfbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mXcnI-nqPElFO3HePtSiR6Jrct1dQBDu70MwUmih5dwXAz1yF0jfnhBn plwQsPOCd9yqCJp5cch-9WFmaenR7D1kRv14ObjlLNBVWt1DgVe6LH-et3r4zVKAo7sLYhUSyHd_KXYJLigwhwhmCnabmQiKgOv38Dmj5 o1Vaopkvlh3gxNWoN9GELjVF_6qtTcvhP_UnIOGoj3veYLwmCL Zixw?width=648&height=864&cropmode=none

RetroRacing

06-20-2018, 11:31 AM

lookin great!

Sgt.Gator

06-20-2018, 03:37 PM

lookin great! Thanks!

Rear Trunk Lid mod. I took the crazy heavy trunk oem hinges off, which meant finding another way to hold the leading edge down. I was going to install 2 more hood pins, but Josh had a better idea, he extended the pin plate to include the trunk lid:

https://xitfbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mkeicVvE_W0qF2fihX-elijN-K9elFA3UlFZzBH6osPHUDHg4RL8nsNFYxoB9gEV1lZqOpKfkyF T_j-NORS8tvZr9l0hkYhcbMbyfbwoBI5JMEloJCJdt89nTVqtJJME9 Zay0gI0y7zkAd_rhD79_VqviP_O47c3BSjU3muNZP3wZIlwC1i oGfuPT6LGVdW0M1w2TzCXZTlVX9hhVG9TRUQ?width=960&height=720&cropmode=none

And the dash is trimmed to fit around the halo now:

https://u4rg4w.by.files.1drv.com/y4m19Dh23goMuzNoQh2Y89EHTYE9knNoE4Is4_zSe9SNuR6JK4 rs-OakW0e6_GTFkDpqe4kGR8LPyf2AyaW6jTGdSk567jzvddvYDGb lME9MTeHUY3LtCTdr3EvME143ZYqFqhEAaZWQyqDXzgJNUGo2c UwVUDz_yM3iw9F8Yd_vApfaGGCNr8o0RE3cTvtF_bNtISJBQc7 Nb88MfUE6Vy_QA?width=691&height=720&cropmode=none

The FFR shifter cables are at the cable shop to be shortened to use with my MR2 rebuilt shifter.
We're getting close to bringing it home for the dry sump install!

Mitch Wright

06-20-2018, 04:05 PM

Getting closer to the final weigh in!
Really like the rear trunk hood pin plates, I am going to copy Josh's idea. A sincere form of flattery.

Sgt.Gator

07-06-2018, 10:02 PM

MR2 Shifter installed and new cables connected. Virtually every part that could be replaced with oem Toyota parts was replaced in this eBay special. I haven't driven it yet, but just sitting in the car and shifting while making vroom vroom sounds sure feels sweet!

https://t4rg4w.by.files.1drv.com/y4mVxNR_T9CtzcoDTQ_IPPTPmJbUtEQGiHPJtzdtP4uaFMTqMN lXGtHBQ2oJT61C-KWlL0pIjktJktppFLafAv89cXAaIMYPRjkH0GKRocYF1odl551 DY5UgN51ZYaFmp6FBl120hnhdA3tko4-vLyWFW0xaBBq9kEwp7LIAG_b8CvNgj2VvbcMSI-CGvkRXg3eIuJm_BcvpcDlBRyQZibUcg?width=648&height=864&cropmode=none

Seats mounts re-done. We moved the seats over to center them behind the steering wheel and pedals. A sub belt mount bar was welded in to put the sub belts in the correct position.

https://uirg4w.by.files.1drv.com/y4mmCKWWnlU5OpPpFheycRjnby9uJjDQhLdokCP9exdqu2hJrG 3gkWgc690HeIPF0B-TCoKFzv2KEQYYmhNX4UOz71Yeczm9FktlVxrS3PnbXbumTrJtX gSVg_SLmAXS1j9EhaGvX9epkxR76LbOnd-sryEEt9KuDK4tK-xZI8jNmQk88qGJRXpKpc6-YjImbNI0QJaFpKiZ-7ONzhTIdAeEA?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none..https://tyrg4w.by.files.1drv.com/y4mL5B_U0nXYyo9kherDlbT-KoURWM5i_Xf9ySfbzDQ5ck6m5614NPdCRM4NtUlF0Oj4uSVxBq JRvyGqGWNXM0pBYhPjY7w_tEpxWVEbwqgD9ACK7OnzvdEt_Nhg ZT95Jr6UfPrLKQwMDlaTIAgZe2MBP9yOGjaH4CoOWNLYDiHmJz 0D5lE2S0i810-zAjbK_CRQb3Km23rijFOGmAOcVHzXg?width=877&height=864&cropmode=none

No Pics, but the -AN lines are run for the fuel surge tank/pump and the dry sump pump. The DS system is ready to go other than a v belt. The Air Filter > Intake pipe> is almost finished, I eliminated all the PCV connections to the intake. At least initially I'm running an open DS system vented from the block main vent to the DS oil tank. Pics to follow on all that.

C.Plavan

07-08-2018, 10:33 AM

I still can't believe FFR has not fixed the sub belt mount position. That is a huge safety issue.

RetroRacing

07-09-2018, 10:49 AM

Knock the inside vertical lip off the rear of the front fender as well, not needed

Sgt.Gator

08-14-2018, 12:52 AM

https://youtu.be/Z-YdeYz7Lmc

Almost ready to rent and race! And now the big question, how much does it weigh with a full halo cage?

The contestants!
So far entries for the Gator 818R weight pool are:
Mitch 1956#
Hobby Racer 2084#
Gator 1950#
Wayne 2015#
Retro 1990#
DanielsDM. 1972#

And the envelope please.......2040 Lbs wet.

https://7qjfkg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4myloM_kLEnKUX54n_jjJhivWqmuY1VjPs19uVQoJ9f525H_V iAg9QnWEj3TMZ1KxF8SqBlrAXGzY79lRhZkZTQoE2yaEi0fEJa AX7dptZDA53RjaYacY6WHrq73lD8mUNaKdcJD0EOADbhqSPXdd 38yxHdTKzKYVdvg0BWIQwV9m44LAFzoniyhgotpQnS2BG1yWXX Lz-OedGLoMibDu3Fg?width=586&height=432&cropmode=none..
https://7vjfkg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mKJozN0afLBck3R9ujwGfb35GTWydcjjyoMI1QK3NnjWEFsZ tD1ntyUZVaB__znQV_-EVftudLGW-a6KqVkh3QimVpYqNo0VguQMCHo5HwR0SaCdQZVYpKCMU9IiIiP m0Ip88i4FYKXxozv3NvGkSUIKF2tn7lATHBHSMf3Tu_Bo1ERvD mIy7jv5Ikte8YlA2J5-LTEiWMaELRfigzHzRGA?width=595&height=432&cropmode=none

Added a secondary kill switch, easy for emergency workers to hit it:

https://7pjfkg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mSyORjJIcJAxYmPoxQvTzsYpGhDA26FxyURG1S5bJOMsZd2_ yDMmiJiZP-3hlQ7xmYHzg7pCuewzSbPH4_kdaEwRlybABBpdnbWQ8bRMCv9r A3MYZy6IgmrhZg1W9wV0Jk4MiMNmoRuL8DB7lulF1cTebC0TtM AYMfGpLSbSbPW29MNQgy4K3-C_nGh_jK-qu370LH0D13A3nu2ESLezCLw?width=576&height=432&cropmode=none

Hindsight

08-14-2018, 07:10 AM

That's basically what my S weighs wet. But without the halo cage lol.

Mitch Wright

08-14-2018, 08:37 AM

And Wayne is the winner. Let me know size and color T Wayne and we will get it in the mail. Choices are Red, Blue or Black 91321 91322

Congrats Gator, now make some noise with that thing.

Rob T

08-14-2018, 07:32 PM

I'm looking forward to some great video and some performance stats....

Sgt.Gator

09-11-2018, 01:05 PM

I'm looking forward to some great video and some performance stats....

Very soon! The 818R is at Surgeline in Portland getting tuned. They ran into issues with the injectors. It turns out they are DW 650s and they just would not tune consistently. After two hours of chasing the tune on the dyno we pulled it off and are replacing them with ID/Cobb 1050x injectors.

I'm racing at The Ridge this weekend in my STI so it will be a little while til I can get the 818R on track. Possibly Sept 19-20 at ORP. This weekend may be interesting at The Ridge, I see Retro Racing's 818R will be in the Enduro with me and the Dragonfly center drive 818RSR will be there too. Three Subaru powered cars in an endurance race is some kind of record, especially if we all finish it!

Sgt.Gator

09-12-2018, 12:56 PM

Another unanticipated issue was the fuel pressure. It was too high. We thought it had an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator in the Outfront Motorsports billet fuel rails but on closer inspection we discovered it's the oem regulator. It can't handle the increased pressure of the FITech surge tank pump. https://fitechefi.com/products/40007/

So on goes an new regulator....

grabera7

09-12-2018, 02:42 PM

Very soon! The 818R is at Surgeline in Portland getting tuned. They ran into issues with the injectors. It tunrs out they are DW 650s and they just would not tune consistently. After two hours of chasing the tune on the dyno we pulled it off and are replacing them with ID/Cobb 1050x injectors.

I believe that IAG (JR) will not tune a car that has DW injectors. I had a bunch of issues with DW 1000s before.

Sgt.Gator

10-04-2018, 07:43 PM

The 818R is tuned up and ready to go for a couple of days of shakedown testing at ORP. I hope to post pics and videos Monday!
Here it is on the dyno at Surgeline in Portland:

https://7vgvfa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mBrDv8CBFcgIbbUMXnuTnapdHPVG47fp6xXMt6hZ_EUUYXLi mTZKBj98eU7CE3pEPgS-Zabo5hvwJOvuttK6FPywKKjLOZSr18ZoeBIBOvPiuVstOgDQAA ea55x0BwZROQyYbU_XOtxdVmGuNiI-bpmvsHAAagife2AzvkejMLkZhaMljhBVsnfpaZKAjaU1mAMhPY sXIhlK8vHJAeII0ZA?width=1080&height=810&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

10-10-2018, 02:24 AM

ORP Track Days Report:
The positives:

There is virtually no noticeable turbo lag from the mile long FMIC piping. I'm sure on the street it would be noticeable, but on the track it's not. So for 818Rs the FMIC is a viable option. Another day of testing without the following issues will tell me definitively.

The car is fast. Even with 277 HP it's quick. It spins up to 7,000 RPM fast as heck. I found myself hitting the rev limiter a few times because unlike the STI there's no noticeable reduction in power over 6,000 rpm, it's still pulling hard to the redline.

It handled and braked well.

I believe the cage makes the frame extremely stiff, and it gives a feel of confidence you can survive the bad times too.

However it was a frustrating but good shake down (as usual for a first couple of track days!)

It started off badly. I filled the 818R to the brim of the fill cap, then filled up Pearl (my Palatov D4) and took Pearl out on track. When I returned 30 minutes later I found a pool of gasoline all over the driver and passenger floorboard. OMG! There was at least a pint, maybe a liter of gas right under my seat and legs (if I had been in the car). Clearly the tank was leaking at a fitting or something. Clean up the gas for 20 minutes, then take out the driver seat and the firewall so I can see what's going on at the tank. It was leaking out the main tank plate, the one with six bolts in a star pattern. On checking them I discovered 5 of the six bolts were relatively loose. I've never had that plate off and never filled the tank to the edge of the gas fill cap before so I had no idea. My bad for not nut and bolt checking everything before putting the firewall on.

This did highlite a safety issue I'd never really thought about. Any leaks at the hose fittings, hoses, pump, tank, will hit the floor and run forward under the center tunnel, driver, and passenger. And there's lots of electrical connections around the tank and in the center tunnel. A fire like that and even with an open top you're going to be severely burned before you can get out.

I see two solutions:
1) Seal the firewall with Permatex along the bottom edge and sides up a few inches. That should stop the gas from getting thru and running under my seat, but will be a pain in the rear everytime you need to take the firewall off to work on things. And there still needs to be a drain function so there's not a lake of gas in there waiting to explode.

2) Work up some sort of dam across the floor behind the firewall that is sealed to the floor to keep fuel from coming forward, but doesn't inhibit removing the firewall for maintenance. And drill a couple of drain holes with fittings for drain hoses that go to the very back of the car and dump leaking fuel outside away from the exhaust. Probably an aluminum angle bar sealed with oil/fuel gasket maker (like Permatex Right Stuff) to the floor.

On to the next issue....I take the now gasoline contained 818 on the track...I discovered the latch and link belts would not work with my arm restraints. Not a big deal in the long run, I've already ordered new rotary release belts that will work. I just need to be careful not to roll it today!

I discovered that my left elbow needs more room. I can barely turn left, my elbow jams into the side rail.

On to the track: The 818 had oil leak issues, as in all over the top of the engine once I started getting on the throttle/rpm. Big smoke clouds. Fire potential. What was so frustrating was that it had just come off two hours on the tuning dyno!

I spent a bit of time trying to figure out how oil could be on top of the engine. Based on prior experiences I thought it might be blow by escaping out the vents or a loose dry sump hose, leaking DS pump....or maybe even leaking below the engine and the air circulation was blowing some back on top. The driver side lower area was dripping oil. i figured it had to be a blowby out the vents issue.
I drove home Saturday night, worked on the 818R to duplicate the valve cover venting I have on the STI, and went back to ORP Sunday afternoon.

It was still blowing oil somewhere. Brando installed red Defi gauges which are damn near impossible to read in sunlight when you have dark glasses on. But this time I had clear glasses which meant I could just barely read the oil pressure gauge. I noticed the pressure was fine until I got on the throttle and the engine spun up, then the needle started bouncing all over the place. I thought WTF!?! Then when I stopped to check on the situation I noticed the alternator belt was gone! And the dry sump belt had moved one rib over the pulley! I called it a day for the 818 and finished out the day driving the D4.

Today I dug into the issue. It appears the driver side AVCS Oil Control Valve O-ring is the culprit. The tuner mentioned having to pull it out and clean it because it was stuck. Apparently 14 year old O-rings can't handle that. At high rpm the pressure and volume cause it to leak out the back, across the top of the block and down the head onto the exhaust. A little research on NASIOC showed this is a known issue. I have a JDM EJ207 in the 818 so it uses slightly different AVCS valves than USDM cars. Apparently you can use the USDM parts but the connector is angled differently and the mounting bracket is slightly larger. I'm in no rush now that the season is over so I went ahead and ordered the correct JDM valves. Partly as a test to see how it goes. Only one is leaking but I figure it's time to replace them both.

On the Alternator belt and DS belt: I discovered the oem serp belt tensioner was destroyed. I think the nut that holds the tensioning wheel on came off and/or I incorrectly installed the jam nuts. Anyway that caused the DS belt to move out and force the alternator belt off the pulleys. I have the replacement parts and I'll be sure they match the STI's setup this time!

818 Sorting to do's:

Get a new Alternator belt.

Replace the oem tensioner parts.

Put the DS belt back where it belongs.

Eventually this winter I'll install a Fluidamper crank pulley.

Fuel Tank Leak Dam and Drain system

Remove Defi Gauges. Replace with readable gauges.

I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to put the required back brace on the Kirkey seats. Install new driver's seat and belts that don't require a back brace and work with arm restraints.

Non Skid safety tape on the floorboards.

Probably remove the front sway, bar, more testing on that.

I'd like a bit less brake pedal pressure, I may have to adjust the leverage fulcrum on the pedal.

Probably modify the driver's side rails to be like NASCAR bars which will fix the elbow room issue. The full halo cage should mitigate any loss of frame strength.

It never ends.....!

Bob_n_Cincy

10-10-2018, 03:58 AM

Thanks gator for the great report.
We did about a dozen autocrosses to shake down the 818 before trying a track day.
It could have been frustrating, But we went home after each event with a list of improvements. As long as the same issue never repeated itself. The progress made us feel good.
Bob

Mitch Wright

10-10-2018, 08:53 AM

Glad to hear you got the car out Gator. I did drill drain hole in the far right corner of the floor in case of a fuel cell leak. (my 15 gallon cell sits in the passenger seat area)
I don't have a issue with my left arm but I am not a vary big man. With that said when I installed the seat I placed it as low and far to the right as I could, if you have the space that might do the trick.

Rob T

10-11-2018, 09:31 PM

Thanks for the update Gator. Did you get any video? I know we'd all love to see it.

Zach34

10-13-2018, 08:17 PM

I discovered that my left elbow needs more room. I can barely turn left, my elbow jams into the side rail.

Check my build thread for my side roll cage modification. It's a ton of work, but I think worth it even though I haven't driven the car yet. I don't know how this hasn't been cited as an issue from more R guys. Just from sitting in mine I could tell it was a no-go.

If you stay with 1.5" tube, you can move the cage out 5 inches where your elbow is and still have about 1/8-1/4" clearance to the inside of the door/side-sail.

Sgt.Gator

10-15-2018, 12:50 PM

Thanks for the update Gator. Did you get any video? I know we'd all love to see it.
I do have some video but it's pretty lame. I was running about 60% most of the time trying to figure out all the teething problems. Once I replace the AVCS oli control valves I do a new one.

BTW, the NASIOC thread was wrong. The USDM AVCS oil control valves won't plug into my JDM engine harness connector! I have the correct JDM valves arriving this week.

Check my build thread for my side roll cage modification. It's a ton of work, but I think worth it even though I haven't driven the car yet. I don't know how this hasn't been cited as an issue from more R guys. Just from sitting in mine I could tell it was a no-go.

If you stay with 1.5" tube, you can move the cage out 5 inches where your elbow is and still have about 1/8-1/4" clearance to the inside of the door/side-sail.

Thanks. I knew there was a thread about it somewhere but I couldn't remember whose mod it was. Much appreciated!

Sgt.Gator

10-21-2018, 07:09 PM

The JDM oil control valves arrived in record time. I bought them on eBay from the UAE, they arrived in a week!
I put them in and went for a spin on my favorite back road. It ran great, no oil leaks, no smoke. I'm even getting used to the left elbow issue. It's only a problem on hairpin corners, regular sweepers are not an issue.
I have another list of things still to do but it's a big relief to know leaking oil all over the top of the engine is not one of them.

Zach34

10-22-2018, 01:37 AM

I'm even getting used to the left elbow issue. It's only a problem on hairpin corners, regular sweepers are not an issue.

I'm 6'3" with about a 6'4" armspan, so others might be able to get by where I could not. I think my biggest worry was being able to steer rapidly - like to catch the rear end from sliding or something. It's a million times better with the cage moved out. Feels larger inside, and offers some peace-of-mind for a potential side impact to know that at least the first steel part hit will be just a little further from my body.

Mitch Wright

10-22-2018, 09:31 AM

Cool Gator, get the thing out and burn some gas.
I was up in your way last week (Poulsbo/Bremerton area) with family.

Sgt.Gator

10-23-2018, 01:22 PM

Zach you have a good point. I'll probably move them out this winter. Not as extensively as you did, mostly just in the area where my elbow needs clearance.

Sgt.Gator

06-09-2019, 12:26 PM

Quick Update: I was at ORP again for testing this weekend:

The Good: No turbo lag at all. I can reconfirm the above post that running a FMIC on a track is great. Even though there is a mile of piping that virtually everyone who sees it tells me will have horrible lag, there is none on track. And it's not just my subjective feel, I actually watched the turbo boost gauge thru several corners and out on to the straight. As soon as I cracked the throttle open prior to the apex the boost went from vacuum to positive by a pound or two. Post apex the turbo builds power as much as the rear tires can handle, so progressively opening the throttle resulted in progressive boost, and by the time I reached corner exit there was full boost available.

Of course if you miss a shift and end up in a lower gear under 4000 rpm there is a bit of a wait for the power to come back. But that's true on any turbo race car.

The Bad: Changing the AVCS control valves did not fix the oil leak. So then I thought it might be the adapter fitting on the bottom of the DS pump. I got that tightened up but still blowing oil on the left side of the engine out on track. It doesn't do it idling in the paddock. Now I'm thinking it's a driver side cam seal.

I also installed new Sparco seats. I never could get the Kirkey seats to fit correctly and be legal with a back brace. I'll post pics and video the next time I get on track without issues.

I reconfirmed the Defi gauges are worthless in the sun even with non-polarized sunglasses. They are on the list for a complete swap out next winter for sure.

The A7 tires have reached end of life. I'm looking at wheel/tire options. I already posted in the wheel tire thread but I'll ask again here, anyone tried running 15" wheels all around yet?

Zach34

06-10-2019, 02:28 AM

That's very interesting to hear about the FMIC. Good to see that it worked out to be a good solution.

I'm glad I went back and looked through your thread. You may have inspired my hood vent project. I am fabricating the plenum/duct from the back of the radiator to the hood vents. Mine will be a combination of aluminum panels and fiberglass. This is one of the most difficult re-design issues I've faced so far on the body. There's just nowhere to really seal the duct to.

How did you attach the side aluminum panels to the radiator?

Sgt.Gator

06-11-2019, 01:12 PM

How did you attach the side aluminum panels to the radiator?

I'll get better pics and notes on it shortly.

DanielsDM

06-17-2019, 12:37 PM

The A7 tires have reached end of life. I'm looking at wheel/tire options. I already posted in the wheel tire thread but I'll ask again here, anyone tried running 15" wheels all around yet?

Finding 15” wheels with the 5x100 lug spacing that are race proven is difficult. You can do a custom two piece race wheel but those are pricey.

Sgt.Gator

06-17-2019, 06:43 PM

Finding 15” wheels with the 5x100 lug spacing that are race proven is difficult. You can do a custom two piece race wheel but those are pricey.

Yep that's what I'm finding out! The front tire being limited to a little over 24" diameter on an R is the main reason I was looking for 15" wheels. The choices are minimal in race tires at 17" for the front.

Mitch Wright

06-19-2019, 10:36 AM

I had run my car as low as 3.25" measured at the front of the main frame rail with 17" wheels and a 24.5" tire that put the front splitter at 2.75" which would contact the track in a few places here at NCM.

Sgt.Gator

07-05-2019, 03:21 PM

After replacing the oil fill hole cover, valve cover gaskets, coil hole gaskets, and valve cover grommet "O-Rings", the leak appears to have stopped. At least a 30 minute drive around town didn't leak any. Next up is a trip to Driving Force Graphics for race numbers and sponsor stickers, then a couple of days at Oregon Raceway Park (July 12-14) for Test & Tuning. Fingers crossed!
If that goes well I'll enter it in the ICSCC NWMECS Enduro race at Pacific Raceways July 20.

There was a snafu getting the correct valve cover gaskets to fit a JDM EJ207 AVCS heads... for future reference they are:
13270AA152 and 13272AA075.
The grommets are 13271AA071.
The coil gaskets are 13293AA051.

Sgt.Gator

07-15-2019, 05:02 PM

The test & tune at ORP started off really well. The oil leaks were all gone! Once that was confirmed we started pushing it a little harder and harder.

Later in the afternoon when the track was at least 100 degrees or more, and with the help of another 818 builder, we did hot pit tire temps with a needle pyrometer. I was very pleased with the temps on my new Hoosier R7's. Very consistent 160-165 degrees across the treads. I was expecting them to be quite a bit hotter, Hoosier recommends 180-220 degrees for optimum stick. That's telling me that going to a wider tire is not going to help, at least not until I really start hammering on it hard.
Front: 225/40/17
Rear: 245/35ZR18

Then it happened. After about 2 hours of track time in 5 -10 lap sessions the 2004 WRX with Cusco 1.5 LSD trans broke. Loud clunking and an awful thump emanate from inside it now. We haven't taken it apart yet to see the exact damage, that will be later this week.

Then insult to injury: On the tow in the tow line came undone, the rope went under the right front wheel and wrapped around it, smashing/cracking the fiberglass fender out from the inside, and tearing off the brake line!

So back to the shop for fender repair, brake line repair, a rebuilt 5 speed, and this time a trans cooler package. I knew I should have done the cooler, and I can't say it would have helped for sure, but I will do it now that it's getting re-done anyway.

A few pics here, a one lap video later this week:

https://kw0w5a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mEQQFCf1lx4SSc4-QEFLLllxnX-IvGqdmS5NHZKKQwHrv3eI9ISia60q2ZdkAJKVCLI9olu5cB1uz tcqnWLDx5aL1ePvEMQiujwvCxXt1S_vqzybvynEVRjMbM4y5QO BDhQwrdbEI2QgF8A2RqIuw-WBuSWBfvMVlmGKwk4Bi0gotmOBt9B_IaqC6FwBxKbtuxaCLspq hl7YNDpgNVZpa8Q?width=1024&height=673&cropmode=none..https://g20w5a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mUWUkiX5b0F-py0n7rX4vFNZE0lHfngSNTCGxuUuy1sxFBoUKnQaK9bM5ErxKI BltNhsavlgY0WCZLWHO2AdYS4mYkEooRaYhiBFy6eo88rnjceD e-hGEa9C5UoLa2SUIyDirSBxgmkDbuKv5GpAYON00MaNwCLqT0-TGTi3i97jyEYgZPwzgGXbZM-Hhf_L_zD-EQoFNV7iAAKneNrIkAA?width=1024&height=591&cropmode=none..https://hw0w5a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mce4LxeKDXj3pAJPxrpYIj5RWG8SxT_ZdSNRskK7S9OntHcH 6KOHpvPvW8Gk7H-agdcA5ad-aV7PcF7zSsqDaK_yR0ZC5v9ed15khmBfNVttOaE72t5ZA0TX7e iPmJjPZoVimcTLAU8rs-KFeTcm5EDYL6XG5ncnjkDe29xZ50vH7tx-7LOZyDYUiHOiM2P2-tgAgEDzxkoyRlVdIehqc6w?width=1024&height=558&cropmode=none..https://km0w5a.by.files.1drv.com/y4m_e81ITQJoARxy6kRcozI0lbsHFnlRegjmB1GQxyPH9HFTeY qLe8vKfyS89OlR19rvIZD24dfIR9HJ-IHngRyHP_ky6vTYcAeAlC32gsWy6OS_-_6p_SaqaTaFszOC5iseDOCM7JmFqsRCffddUC4LKl_UbrpznG0 JeO9sxY-Q5KieVRioy5CF92_TX3011CGzODOe1XgTo-tUYAF1R8Oig?width=660&height=613&cropmode=none..https://hm0w5a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mG9cAu5Wp7rkzI4P7ingj3S9TLpkND42Lhze_LvJhE8MIgUX rQIRiBy12450QWfTLFFdzQIGb4VFpuTZVjT7OGDaK-RbJaewK4U_0eCkAsnUQXR-8UafP3EVh1oZXA4-kL_rOC94zVLcibHoKAv_o7i3KoGQtZT2fJHeeHKm-KM28HD6q5f303RBFf5kJ6QEjVhw00SktVLawOpl9jJgBcQ?wid th=660&height=495&cropmode=none

Hobby Racer

07-15-2019, 05:46 PM

How much HP & torque are you putting down? Just trying to get a feeling for what the 5MT can handle in the 818R's.

Wondering when mine is going to give up the ghost ;)

Sgt.Gator

07-15-2019, 06:01 PM

How much HP & torque are you putting down? Just trying to get a feeling for what the 5MT can handle in the 818R's.

Wondering when mine is going to give up the ghost ;)

277 HP; 251 TQ.
Zach at ZF Design told me he has seen several with burned up 5th gears. The non-Stock forward tilt causes the rear to run dry. So on the next one we are going to plumb the coloer to drop the oil back in from the top towards the rear. However I don't think this is a burned up 5th gear.

I'm going to detune to 225 HP/225 TQ RWP for racing next year in a new class structure we have in our ICSCC NWMECS Mini Enduro series. That's getting dang close to what a NA motor could do, which is tempting and the ability to lose more weight and complexity! You would think that at a Turbo 225 HP the trans and engine should last a long time....

Rob T

07-15-2019, 08:55 PM

Bob_n_Cincy

07-15-2019, 10:36 PM

Gator,
On my 5mt I block off all the oil passage ways that let oil make it to the center Diff chamber. I figured that would keep more oil on the rotating parts during acceleration.

The 5mt failure I had was a result of the ring gear bolts coming loose. This was a transmission that had never been apart.
Bob

Zach34

07-15-2019, 10:53 PM

Sgt.Gator

07-15-2019, 11:58 PM

Sorry to hear about the transmission troubles. Just seems like one thing after another with these cars...

Thanks for sharing the tire temp data. I will probably mirror your wheel/tire size setup. That's a huge help. What are the widths of your wheels?
Your more than welcome!
Enkei 17”x8” +45 Front 818
Enkei 18”x8.5” +45 Rear 818

For the new Enduro Spec class I will be experimenting with Konig Dekagrams 17" x 9" +40 on all four with Toyo Proxes R1R 235/40/17 Front and 255/40/17 Rear; 200 Treadware tires. Although they are by number larger, in reality they are the almost the same size as the Hoosiers. I'll post up some test numbers when I get back on the track, but it will be awhile.

Brd.Prey

07-16-2019, 06:08 AM

I have those wheels and I had to run a 5mm spacer to clear the Sti Brembos in the front

Mitch Wright

07-16-2019, 08:53 AM

Sgt.Gator

07-16-2019, 01:40 PM

Gator: Sorry to hear the news of your 5MT. If you are looking for a spare, I have one (left over from Chad), sitting on my shelf. PM me. I broke mine (still not sure what broke yet) but punched a gear tooth through the case. Going to a 6 speed. I had 320 RWHP, but based on my instruments, didn't get much above 275. I did see some high trans temps though, no cooler, running 7 or 8 lap sets.

Did you have fun while it lasted? I look forward to seeing the video.

Thanks for the offer on the tranny but I'm going to get a rebuilt one with the stronger LGT/WRX +08 gears and probably a 4.44 FD.
YES, It was great fun on the track! I love the views. And I've become quite used to jumping in and out thru the top. I've even had some shorter men & women jumping in an out without problem once they get the hang of it. So the halo cage is not as much of an issue as I'd feared for instructing.

Gator,
On my 5mt I block off all the oil passage ways that let oil make it to the center Diff chamber. I figured that would keep more oil on the rotating parts during acceleration.

The 5mt failure I had was a result of the ring gear bolts coming loose. This was a transmission that had never been apart.
Bob

That may be my problem too. It "sounds & feels" like the ring and pinion are in violent disagreement.

Sgt.Gator

07-16-2019, 01:58 PM

Gator, I had heard that running less than 3.5qts could be a problem so I ran 3.5qt+ in my 2004 WRX trans without issue with about the same HP and torque. Glad to hear you got in some good shake down laps and sounds like you are getting close. Looking forward to hearing what you think about the 200TW tires on the 818, I never did try them on the 818 but have driven Corvettes to Miata's with them and I am impressed. We just did a ChampCar race here in a Miata (3rd overall Sunday and won our class both days) and after 15 hours of racing the tires are in good enough shape for a track day or 2. And they never fell off we all ran our quickest laps in Sundays race. Needless to say I am a fan.

The Gold Standard in endurance 200TW tires seems to be the Hankook Ventus RS4. Cheap, great wear, and excellent lap times. I just wasn't sure if the diameter on the front tire would fit with 235/45/17 at 25.1". I need that size if I run the Konig 17" x 9" wheels. I'm trying to keep things simplified with one diameter and width of wheels all around. Maybe when the R1Rs wear out I'll test fit a single RS4.
In our new enduro classing by HP/Wt ratio (10 lbs/hp) I'd be in the top ME0 class, but by using 200TW tires I can drop down to ME1 , which makes my main competition the Spec E46 guys. And we have one ME1 Spec E46 car/driver who regularly beats all the ME0 cars.
But with Retro getting his K-Miata and K-818R almost ready for ME0 I need a different strategy! :cool:
Should be fun!

Sgt.Gator

07-16-2019, 02:09 PM

The Blue Sake Bomber took First Place in Class and First Place Overall at the Northwest Motorsports 2019 Spokane Grand Prix Enduro. Special thanks to Subaru of Bend, your support over the years has been great! And thanks to Surgeline, and Arcflash for your help.

https://ystvbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4m0yd3yV4FrxhGiLOhTjSM1LCJgIeRjyeKVNadmyS1AvKsMlr 2D8pCZOK-bOQ-k8EFfYJqB8lWR_JoXFsiyl1zxNmHlxAq9fRja5ol02BWIINT5b oHgOjBht-XcI-eMkdnimuLz2aL9_NR9xvpo-PrS_zSRWbBp4Rmayd3bcpLVo0AUy-JG3E3vwWA7m8oCTOfg2y9l5kQb2kz_22cTzByrA?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none..https://vctvbg.by.files.1drv.com/y4muJ4znoAmdaEpcwqfaFkYelT4BtyFDWgmcR3C2t8U5nuJFct mdI6HSJ2fgB7ICId9BKWyy2uDY5Hl9tiejJvhpNG31smtOQtY-bsxeLxVL4Batz8-LHK5ChEQ7McM_MrF58_OmInbfU5jEQGLB6jDvyYg8i7D8dl9Eo CtXv5RNRjwLP_54PpW2AVRshjPCXeRgXL4h67XxKhoPUAZMUPz xg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

And then the next day I blew the turbo and the head gaskets in the ST Qualifying!

Bob_n_Cincy

07-16-2019, 02:12 PM

For the new Enduro Spec class I will be experimenting with Konig Dekagrams 17" x 9" +40 on all four with Toyo Proxes R1R 235/40/17 Front and 255/40/17 Rear; 200 Treadware tires.

Gator, I'm running similar tires.
17" x 9" +45 rims on all four with Toyo Proxes R888 235/40/17 Front and 255/40/17 Rear; 100 Treadware tires.
I run a 15mm spacer in rear to prevent rubbing on the OEM lower trailing link.
In front I run a 40mm wider track width to allow full lock to lock steering.
I am also at a 5" ride height. The picture below is a 1.2G body roll.
Bob
110802

Steve Powell

07-16-2019, 02:17 PM

Gator…...you are one persistent SOB. I would have bailed long ago. I applaud your efforts my friend.

Mitch Wright

07-16-2019, 02:37 PM

The RS4's are what we ran and was impressed.

Sgt.Gator

07-16-2019, 02:37 PM

Gator…...you are one persistent SOB. I would have bailed long ago. I applaud you efforts my friend.

LOL, coming from you that means a lot!
It seems to me your FF Challenge Racer has had more than it's fair share too.
From one persistent SOB to another!

Sgt.Gator

07-18-2019, 12:49 AM

Here's pics of the carnage. Broken Ring and Pinion, Carrier bearing on driver side broken. This may be due to an improper Cusco LSD install. The Spool, LSD, and End Plate are going off to ZF Design to convert a WRX case with 08+ WRX/LGT gearing and a 4.44 FD. He will also add a -8AN fitting to the top of the case for the cooler return. I'll put an 8AN in the drain plug for the outlet to the pump and cooler.

https://hm3zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m4QHE11_DVSIVeMsk8YfZq4vgnJExdmfdqs9CtEFN5LI1jQJ hOd97UEaiB4GvEtyR2sN1BWf_2HbJaOjwHSBL7UmQ_EL6NpVsw grFLM5feeg33z4tMawurGjge-lJ51k5FNgi1uuwjsUr0niIxfUJ5hFb-Fd_bfKtouyc1yTjGOkL-9djBDCsGPpLurtRgwAY8q5EYcLYUh07KcVliQNtLg?width=10 24&height=689&cropmode=none..https://h23zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mk8HHOHeRtEtfWP7qj0epSTNPWgFzp3Xr2aOpmEHOXqykuPW u5TVb44hQ1BDadgFi5tnI0Vq3mN1aK9gMvdv3LoIzjibDXPXTd __VbhiUo4PCIELRoX3wae-oDceQ8N_mNEERU5-wRQ9rHYcMuh5PIHTKNPoQCG4O4NmyOLShZRxIUe52eqbuKLV00 2jBupub8KgxsfMqncwhAXSds156cA?width=1024&height=689&cropmode=none..https://ig3zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mShNI218I3Subvf3khnQUNT63CRZPmaW_q75uBRJcJlbfYla OVllkMaz2cZBf7zbsvwtfWkcRa0sq7Hnd85bCBN6VXds-jZ0tUx0mbOrSUyWf0emiFGVJse3X3ahmCBaqJtq_SPYHFaDOuR BoBmuELRaEswefNIgZXGciKHW-sw9XUr5CtphJ0xPKKYq6sBCW2ItEldac8NstCU9usr0kww?wid th=1024&height=689&cropmode=none..https://hw3zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mfMlkG35SwhUR1cobEf5nNfsbb2CANwlKPHvIE51RNnmShdw GdDjmn7f-va2nhRsj-dtWQzHO3mvOnMpSnrBA8Cmroo4w98vpPEgCUiOZRrT9YV0nn7K Jrq237kbwN6aMFRcSud9EPea1s9ilxH6AWYrQnPAbkLlss2IVn 9z_M9qUgEn8nMfF9fbTuxjGWCh-DtCajBYBGbhRk9B5E54StQ?width=1024&height=689&cropmode=none

Rob T

07-18-2019, 06:01 AM

Mitch Wright

07-18-2019, 09:40 AM

Ouch, it doesn't look like a heat or lack of lubrication issue but the bearing races would be a better indicator.

Sgt.Gator

07-18-2019, 10:51 AM

Interesting. My failure was a single tooth ejected through the side of the case near the ring and pinion. The car was still "driveable" after that. It will be a while, but I'll post when I get to do the autopsy.

Any idea what was done "improperly" with the LSD?

Ouch, it doesn't look like a heat or lack of lubrication issue but the bearing races would be a better indicator.

I asked Zach if this was an bad rebuild whe the LSD was installed or a typical 5 speed fail. His reply: "We've seen it both ways who's seen the front ring opinion blow up from launching similar to that but we've also seen botched rebuilds where the diff is basically walking back and forth and takes out the side of the transmission and the teeth".

I have never launched it hard since in my possession. Brando probably launched it hard at AutoX events a few times but he never took it to the drag strip. So my guess is the LSD install.
That's why I would never attampt this myself and I'm paying ZF to do it. He rebuilt my STI 6 speed and so far it's doing fine. And he's done several 818 conversions. BTW, his FB page is here: https://www.facebook.com/thezfdesign/

Rob T

07-18-2019, 08:06 PM

Just for the record, I never launched hard, either, and was in the middle of the track, doing nothing radical, when mine blew up. I have a LSD in mine as well. Torsen type.

Sgt.Gator

07-19-2019, 03:16 PM

A couple of more pics. It worries me when I see a lot of RTV.:

https://g23zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mvkHIrHMBhPuT9GqNQMpIF_veYVUcny60BFrk6naPFkN9qAj cG4jGZmQ_OuwTrZjADz2ALVq2tDkMho9KHGUDer8FCYqg57ADD yA9eu_RiHYsLnBP2UkAN38ShtfniWb1sQsrVoz_vQqBIjDb84U qyCelg4lMVHoTC-lunEx_x-zEU0H9PXdDPtgyxm04lTaVEaNbrfkSdNpPiQD0xA3nFw?width =1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://hg3zsw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mboGa-4CdiYVyQ9SxXG6UBMZqOlJ_mXoo8IstaEDN85AXrxnvvngvUMx G6Vtl2NN6io-talUbYpe0TswpRR6dpLDYD5r4VsNpGV0dAGBf0RDGoDf6B2K-IWbOaQMgkH16brdwESajY8W1T8YL8T2IV1QftCe3BttuYUV0E3 xzNsDFp6HrSBQPo1KlaHG65M9MYaLYqaYO9H04e1qXmAJFfw?w idth=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

07-24-2019, 01:06 AM

https://youtu.be/jJYmIFRgk2E

One lap at ORP while it was running good. Sorry no sound, I forgot to plug in the mic!

Rob T

07-27-2019, 04:15 PM

Thanks for posting. Looks like a fun, fast track.

DanielsDM

07-29-2019, 02:47 PM

+1 Looks like a great track.

Sgt.Gator

08-02-2019, 04:48 PM

Thanks for posting. Looks like a fun, fast track.

+1 Looks like a great track.

You know when sections are called "The Half Pipe" and 'The Big Dipper" it's got some elevation changes. Over four hundred feet of elevation change per lap in 2.3 miles. :cool:

Sgt.Gator

08-02-2019, 05:05 PM

Since the FMIC is working fine for my R I'm selling the VCP AWIC setup that was originally installed. I think it's one of Wayne's very first kits. Before I put it in the Parts For Sale forum or on my eBay storefront I'm giving readers of my build thread first dibs.
$550 includes shipping. I think all the parts are here and then some more, but it's possible something is missing. Buyer Beware it might not be 100% complete!
You can email me at colredracing at gmail.com. You can pay with a credit card via PayPal, I'll send you a PayPal invoice and when it's paid I ship.

111748..111749..111750..111751

Sgt.Gator

04-01-2020, 03:08 PM

While we wait of our race tracks to re-open I figured now is a good time for the over winter update.

1) Arcflash here in Bend swapped out original turbo Brando installed for a a slightly used OEM Subaru STI turbo. The reason was to detune the engine to meet the class rules for our ICSCC Enduro Race series. I'm detuned to close to 10lbs/HP level now, 213HP/211 TQ. My car weighs 2040 (no driver), so with me in it at 2250 lbs and 225 HP is right on the rule. However I'm going to be sharing enduro seat time with a young female driver who weighs probably 110 lbs, so 2150 lbs 215 HP is the max. We'll do a final tune on the track to get the best real race tune.

As many here have noted the oem turbos with internal wastegate don't clear the crossover bar in the engine compartment so we modified the bar, now there's lots of clearance:

https://kilapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mScyvQjPVjuzY_pVN0jZxNQSnmrTyyiMSncHmm9WnQr4A9xe h89650fvRlBZmXIYPzUQkv87jl91WKS5Po2iovEkhDjYYKZGVC Job6UsTD3-dwS6inOiSikU_lQq6bpZQPm4nVKL74Hr5ilwNogvdxIdpdzEKK tPDHhyxfaG-Pgr4CL8XSHCnbVfVdmhyF9i_Un76ieuNv5mWbhT42ScEjg?wid th=864&height=511&cropmode=none

https://jylapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mnO6fx_J0hZqbQ4qwoYhdOP5G1psh4SXZU7Rg8EQu-76uS1sAFue6pZszVG4t5WAvCRSO-vAy6XJ9kYEJeUhQlXXCD2wDjNgg20p6bjX_80G_Ues2sjBxJCd Q2D1SGG6ruWFQnSEINd2-og3Sq7kzZZ-6D2PXxQGoKThJHVWThK13iNV0Gl1Ga-Ut7PNpgOoi-kNpygZRha4efJEI0MnS4A?width=864&height=648&cropmode=none

We also re-worked the dry sump vent system slightly. Both heads vent to a Tee that comes up from the main rear crankcase vent then thru a new one way valve to the DS tank. The idea is to run a sealed system as long as the dry sump pump can maintain vacuum, but if it can't keep up and cranckcase blowby starts to go positive the one way valve opens and vents to the DS tank.

https://lclapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4m-g5QMOkagPL6WibzHcshDlqaDll241yZA489_nJhDAUZKZv5YaB VJku9en2Rl5HBuhF4JQeWkjKhhXzDs-06MKhK0y7hqKBBFIxi9z_vstqzplitmFth1IVBv9KKYtiETHK0 Ff0TkvmNINUBh6rvmKIC4qG2FXS0HDWjGcQCPJyU5uw259J9bN 6DLOtvK89A-bXgVnUUpvnwDon_1BYQWg?width=864&height=648&cropmode=none

Can't wait to get on track again!

Sgt.Gator

04-02-2020, 11:08 AM

As mentioned above the tranny is rebuilt by ZF Design, now with a cooler system. The trans oil comes out the bottom, thru a pump, into an Earl's cooler mounted in the rear vent, then back into the top rear of the tranny:

https://nclapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mF5BILObMZ8T7nHcgKl8WYatzHqj9y7Mqc-Q7WVraJGyIkUh1eN1_Bm9prhbxk6phd012D5fJFDj5l5TkwAyw eLq9FQklQ04wgs8C-Bqesz0cqUeYmMttisR0zqvvJtmP-dn_QUNgLu9LG9qlVZJ2assOH8mKJkmpL668CBV9HrR37rw2Lhc ws6Dts2vUz-6cMxoVOGbpCSuRUKR7zH5OMQ?width=864&height=648&cropmode=none..
https://mylapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4m_0RNdPA5c9yzEmfFjTlNl25reknk8HFLrQDXkdeNg95dzt5 gCBB8cfUWHX-BFX55R2Nw4fSOV50hXyY64cnjdW7Odk1nvxZF20ZKaYI934wuq B_Aw3U28ttQrvBtCSaRTOeM0F_C2ua9dUoR_RKNx5b0VRZlvR5 Z7ebiVIfMDWb2tY3HJu2uPhItCCe56QiuB6GaGYlP_Kq96fbX8 kOd1Q?width=864&height=648&cropmode=none
https://jilapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mqWL_RXeHHWGdn2a6sU-aumC-TDfQyBS-HymuXpV9nXa-XQ_en35p3tCeWvKpxkHP7d0cUC1dwqhiKyUFgiq7IO5N6erjaJ SvJg_Y850lcrTWdtIS3ptReXOkhMMsN1G2BJaYtgXWkrXpUX9i bZQ4XiFMpO_3IBaY08IxT7wcIpSrTtuwvwD3cPw3xzWDL5SOWa mvsJSD6PB1wkFTC8gnoQ?width=864&height=926&cropmode=none
https://jslapa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mKRidLxA3hv11MN-2apA7i4p7SouwEDeka21FcIt8ONi3tkqZg_t6rCxqhyjDauc5J dixg3qwFTcHsy-mvdBowNc-yOvfIAY3KoGyoq5pJa5K0YmEXzsau66oJ8gs_RFPL2AchW_gzV K0FxpmlUBNeMAh51VldbpRblbhlR6vRRzU1UcegUF1pvXQRlCV r42q7VMh99h0lFquVa9pjWdeMQ?width=864&height=648&cropmode=none

Transponder mounted up front in the nose:

https://xp0pyw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mgSpQtr8rnHUxcEqyElbrcb1StTbxVRZC1Tt5x5JOBmLyNnV 4Dk4po_WIz8HJeDswMzwg1VlEi8jzhqjAlFXi_3709LaLb7Re-GIsIStL9dSuLu_rW-bJQ0s5NFi1Xp8afak0IBuwK0W3Ujl_KWXl0NmbvX4Iw8YUAQqw 1Fvlitq-u9hq9coCxNlMCce1SqOOhofFRECug7mShfywyvbpaw?width=6 60&height=495&cropmode=none

And the best house mod, a new driveway that took the HUMP out of the street to driveway apron! It was so tall the 818 would high center on it, and the Palatov was impossible. Now it's a nice low entry:

https://x50pyw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mI60wkRZt3uvpiXc5iZwa-_gn6L5topio1817Xn5MFyr6GdLnedVwr1D8CRHsn7CEb0zlaIw IM_JqDhGoP59LE64cbWVH36YO_aCi0vBEPWBnVFNH7UIhhkEt9 u8r_j8S4fMjpkrTt1wX38oPU3f2-3MmcP5fjPZ6a0a4-I1iN40kaFJqcLSuiS9zyvKvZpxvlKhw_gIdc7omPSpWMgbxBA? width=864&height=648&cropmode=none

And as long as I'm under house arrest for Corona Virus I guess I could have worse jailers than the Three Sisters and Broken Top:

https://xj0pyw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m1uUJstM3HN9uSCyood3F1f9DmFSJt4ns-ALWCGv6-zSozoTswRZk8bWDbKWcNBb2cCnEPFXZXEuvXzER1lGud9i0H7t 0P3CVSXdSgeDu-y1oTBLdiUMcMr5wjOOX7VmruvVSbHBvb8PNNkCntSKO2Gqslo5-PV7WclJZO9CW-5XRWrB_CZnOgSmDictMRQwqNoaCLO34XhVwlIs3tgHtcg?widt h=1152&height=864&cropmode=none

Hobby Racer

04-02-2020, 12:21 PM

And as long as I'm under house arrest for Corona Virus I guess I could have worse jailers than the Three Sisters and Broken Top:

Oh man, that is a great view!

Sgt.Gator

04-02-2020, 01:12 PM

Oh man, that is a great view!
Thanks, yes we love the never ending scenery change from our deck. We can see from Mt Bachelor in the south (where we ski) to Mt Hood in the north on any clear day, and many days Mt Adams up in Washington, and on a really clear day we can see Mt Rainier, 194 miles away as the crow flys.

Two of my favorite pics of the Sisters and Broken Top from the Mt Bachelor ski area. The top one I took while skiing, the lower image is from one of the ski area's cams that morning. Unfortunately our season was closed early for the Corona Virus:

https://wp0pyw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mof1FqGqpg7Q4Hhuf3eLl4M-mRcfMdWw6qV-QT68EnKQFB_TqWeCyjISED_hon1ftWi2iTA8oPYp-UIqbaHmeNTmUkE2O1iWyEd0A1BHREfPAIkcM3MiLYjKJxCYnpT wNtlahHVXiPg_Pq14Q_ErJ5xqNHubz6wi09AfP_gxJxxB-CZpkW7zcx0a5lUQF57GIFbUZixk7tw1Y6FtRU8utUA?width=1 024&height=576&cropmode=none

https://xz0pyw.by.files.1drv.com/y4msRqCTVAirgEXLuCOGkklySvLaZ8mQrmIsRWyeHdB15cxmQg 0-EI7gFr0Oe-3SXITezUWRmQk4S-J5af9iwRWcj3kbk2MVG-f_g3LDmqWNzLvrTdry-xgMNeh0Hd6qchG9vdEospGmaJ86SuLa_CLCRyeVJnVb2lynI-Nfr_aN6u0zmSGhJmI0MPLbweq1JROPUAdFyCEPBNVnRNTuyZ1P A?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

05-16-2020, 03:45 PM

https://xz2jvg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mvkb7_2eahNu3aNVecOkFxY4JoNp3VTJILjBZeyAEWzN-3Be0iEjjpyjJllNK2k-rzIc3fkpQOLZxB6K9U172gc4JVJ3ShxhSeYSQt3xlVh3OOUN_N Bkktzzfz1bhrKNYg2KYiKAzRh7ZQbjlPm8stOe7Lj5WcmFxJbj IWBFnZTEYCae1qoiHJM0uGObVOqr6b9zwZIYgyNhFo_N0SizNG w?width=1024&height=587&cropmode=none

Oregon Raceway Park, Mt Adams in the background.

For this season we have changed the setup in the 818R to compete in the NWMECS mini enduro series as a P1 class car. That meant the 818 needs to be at 225HP, 2250lbs (with driver, 10lbs/hp) which puts us in P0, but by running 200 treadware tires we can compete in P1/ME1 where the main competition is BMW SpecE46 cars. That meant swapping out the turbo and a retune. In this video the tune is actually detuned down to 210 HP because we thought a small female driver was going to be co-driving the car this year but she has dropped out because of the Covid economic situation.
Lots more Test & Tuning to go but the car is a blast to drive!

Build Notes:
First session was with no hood, trunk, or wing to make it easy to find leaks. No leaks! This is a bigger deal than you might think given the history. The car felt nice and balanced and was easy to drive.

I went in, put on the body panels and rear wing, back out for another test. Instantly obvious understeer at medium and high speed. The fix was to disconnect the front sway bar. The car handled fine then.

The biggest problem: The trans got too hot. In only 5 laps it gets hot, in 10 laps it's at 250 degrees. And the temp is related to the amount of WOT, by running at a lap at half throttle I could drop the temps 5-10 degrees. I think the problem is 1) The cooler is too close to the exhaust and 2) The cooler has no fresh air ducted to it, and no fan on it. So we are going to DEI wrap the exhaust from the turbo to the exhaust tip and either relocate the cooler or add ducting to get it cool air.

So for 2 days my testing was limited to 5 laps at a time in the 818. It wasn't so bad because I just kept switching from the 818 to the STI.

I put a piece of cardboard over the Defi gauges to create a hood. Even with the hood the gauges are barely readable on a sunny day with sunglasses and a helmet face shield. They are coming out and will be replaced with old school gauges. If anyone wants them for the inside of their C model let me know, I'll make you a deal.

I'm really looking forward to racing the 818 this season. It should be very cost effective on consumables, especially at 225 HP. And with 225 HP it's blast drive. Unless you are in a class where you need 400 HP I think 225 HP in a 2250 LB vehicle is plenty for a track toy. IMHO!

You Tube Video
https://youtu.be/74I3N_HzTLM

Mitch Wright

05-18-2020, 09:08 AM

Excellent, glad to see you have gotten the car out and some laps on it.

I read in one of the trades I get that ORP is for sale, hope it ends up in good hands that track looks really fun.

Sgt.Gator

05-18-2020, 10:51 AM

Excellent, glad to see you have gotten the car out and some laps on it.

I read in one of the trades I get that ORP is for sale, hope it ends up in good hands that track looks really fun.

It is. Would you like to join with 100 other guys and be an owner in your own private track?

Mitch Wright

05-19-2020, 08:05 AM

Sgt.Gator

05-19-2020, 09:58 AM

LOL as much as I like Central Oregon and the Bend area particularly I will have to pass. I have managed 4 tracks and told my wife the current track would be the last. If a group of buyers would like some input and advice I am available. Brett has invited me out there a number of times now I think I need to make the time and take him up on it.

I'll keep you in mind for your advice if something comes together. And of course we'd love have you come out for some of our ORP Club days. The Governor has allowed us to have 25 people at a time now so the track is open for club members again.

Mitch Wright

05-20-2020, 09:11 AM

That is great news. We are opening up for Driving Club members tomorrow (small groups) and our first track day will be the June 6th and 7th with Chin Motorsports. We have been able to get a lot of things done that we didn't get too over the winter but more than ready to have people back enjoying the track.

Sgt.Gator

06-02-2020, 09:12 AM

Ongoing testing at ORP trying to resolve the Trans Temp issue. More details on that later.
ORP was having an Instructor and Corner Worker Certification day on May 30 when in the afternoon a freak downburst type storm rolled in and in a couple of minutes the wind went from the usual 15-20 mph to 80 mph. A car in front of me is blown off the track (you'll see him in the weeds at turn 14), as I come down Valkyrie hill the dust storm and tumbleweeds attack, at Turn 2 the corner worker is waving a Red flag, then switches to a Black Flag.

Porta Potties blown over, Race Ramps sailing across the parking lot...then the rain starts.

https://youtu.be/4JqfQVpITig

jforand

06-02-2020, 03:02 PM

Holy Cow!!!

I get that it came on fast, but you could certainly see it coming. I am really surprised they had you on the track for that. Over in the SE all the groups I run with are pretty quick to call it as they don't want corner workers out there with the risk of lightening (many of your stations appeared to be empty). That being said, I did have one outing with NASA at Road Atlanta that got really ridiculous with the rain and visibility. You mentioned you were familiar with RA so picture the bottom of the esses. Massive rain events blowing through making it impossible to see flag stations from time to time, but the real issue is the time lag for the water to make it to the low spots. I was following a corvette and formulating the mental decision to pull off regardless of the session's status. Well, the rain slaked off and the vette kept going.....so I decided to circle one more time. I was very glad to be behind the vette this time through the bottom of the esses the puddle had grown and water came up over the top of his car, quite literally submarining it. I took the opportunity to shoot for the displaced water hole. Needless to say we both came in after that one.

Santiago

06-05-2020, 11:42 PM

Sgt.Gator

06-06-2020, 06:52 PM

Wow indeed! I've seen critters and tree branches on track before, but never an onslaught of tumbleweeds. Crazy.

You have to admit though, that's a pretty darn tough piece of cardboard you taped to the dash having survived all that. =)

Lol, the cardboard was an attempt to see if a hood would make the Defi -Link gauges readable in the sunlight with sunglasses on....it didn't. If anybody wants the Defi gauges and control module I'll be happy to sell them soon.

Flamshackle

06-08-2020, 06:44 AM

such cool videos! thanks for keeping my build dream alive! haha. just awesome.

Sgt.Gator

06-15-2020, 05:17 PM

The tranny cooler system in Update II was a fail. So we upgraded it by building a collector into the passenger side scoop that's just in front of the rear tire. We ran brake duct hose back to shroud around the cooler. We thought that the scoop would send flow thru the duct, thru the cooler and out the back. I ssumed that the side scoop pressure would be stronger than the rear of the car pressure. I quickly learned on the track that was a bad assumption, in 10 laps the tranny was 260 degrees.
So breaking out my IR thermometer was very educational. It papers the air in the duct was either completely stagnant of was actually running in reverse.

The shroud around the cooler, 237 degrees:
https://w52jvg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mdriEbgzVEAh9-rXdSaIH81y39cwKhktwlrQ9Jv_G-XVzXaZ-ea4pECovlP5Sn6sHPOXL2oAO7vGIZcYU83P4blhW1O3o89kVPk acXEX5WMj_jpy3t2H3iXh1d1NpxPKecBGAdVlmPGyAjVb3dphR nS1nqVeG3DfcQbaOgyDwP9K078jYxEEj9J6vGEHTaVW7TH7O5S UCP417j2l5a954Kw?width=660&height=514&cropmode=none

The brake duct between the scoop and the cooler shroud, 155 degrees:

https://wj2jvg.by.files.1drv.com/y4miUSuMh2tR53hcNZFsubpSGtRLldzEdI76oSl7ItvOBFoCQk 80z9KzfWGJ_Ijbgwet5iFcXWOqIybmmiiIxoDF1UincuG9liI7 jQ6-rH_0oawsJGldVI3LiLelyvsABfQH_oFHJad7PazIXsqaISoyaP-zrMbl6PokwP9yI9f6CJa3OzLifDj6nogKgVUGw_X_MWI0OLsWJ Z5q4MNk7dWQA?width=564&height=660&cropmode=none

The scoop inlet, 84 degrees:

https://wz2jvg.by.files.1drv.com/y4m3UayDqRidsBXH44m6fmvAxH7Xf5CCvQrPz2W7q-EKO3Th62mdlqlPWTg6ZJ5wghmtTkDAywdr2gNpukfvGYYTU7y6 3U1Wvix_PmkvdjAl87EmNS479RGoEpSVpjPxQXmmMmo7sXkn8A bjl0lJ668SWl9v_NqIO-8MHsY6a5X6R8hvHLmK_FI2kui77hmU3Hag9cKw3iIAip6jb0Jr B0kDQ?width=536&height=660&cropmode=none

Next post, we try another mod.

autostang

06-15-2020, 05:34 PM

That is interesting. I have my side scoop ducted to feed my intercooler in the stock location and definitely get air flow through the system. It's not quite the same as an oil cooler, but my intake temps after the intercooler are within 5 degrees of ambient under normal driving (no/minimal boost). It heats up anytime I am at a stop then cools right back down when moving.

Hobby Racer

06-15-2020, 06:11 PM

A few things stand out to me.

The side scoop has FFR's restrictive grating in place that blocks air entering the duct. You need to remove the grating to encourage air flow.
The scoop needs to be enlarged to the max size, knife edging the outer edge to grab free air. You should get rid of the aluminum trim plate and trim the fiberglass to get as close to the edge as you can.
The brake duct is quite long, adding a lot of restriction to flow

A well placed GoPro and some string/yarn in the air duct will tell you a lot about the flow and its intensity. You only need to drive around the block to see if things are working well.

Just my $0.02

Sgt.Gator

06-16-2020, 01:31 AM

Frank818

06-20-2020, 06:39 PM

Yeah I'm interested in seeing that!

Sgt.Gator

06-22-2020, 12:42 AM

Yeah I'm interested in seeing that!
Here you go!
The air enters the side scoop, is ducted in flexible tube to a K&N Apollo air filter, then out the filter thru flexible duct to the stock intake path where the maf normally resides. I runa speed density tune so no need for a maf housing:

https://xz1mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4miFgVw_18bVt_a-wDNPEp1NOKR3AxjuhRDRpRm8VMNl-7qSJ7laIM8fje3pbMbQBE-e3x5qstEAyI3fm8946thexItans9v_ZRkpkJ4qEQ2F28IkCOE4 4Jeybz1YdJ6hNS0LqQ3nSWOg_MgcPglpxjDcwUR08KjnANmy-t0iNhJejILetzJpSRsc7H0_f0FLIFIFMOMkzN2HATV3T8ZrGdA ?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none..https://wp1mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mo5xONdF55yP1swzWO-oBOYA7-_RCCbdtVUUZcmO62G-pKVjj04NtFzIu6v2JSFUphy_OSPPuG3rPXRn4hnSW0EXDghEdQ PTNk8KOd1O56a-WVXEi0HGqYgP2cua7cDjItht9XqHW6ZG7wfZq4K0UTnhBisKqB LnHJCr5eChCpTiZN5fo3z3Lo67RuCmckiEpmSp4CmQU1eLgc5O AzTz7GA?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none..https://w51mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhNG3ZqvGSo3LGAx2LORQuKPKDNN2LVQ2L_BjmPF_59SWbOz BxCLUewDDjnnmNT-6YmsMlu6q7nbPlWPWrRQ_YDczxuY6dasdapKlZorIxrdDhvMS-L6aF3yArHttPpycZuzDKQAmT9QpNZdE-RBRZiD_TkPQjn1CqorF6FBJRlwuxghjsbGub09Y-f46aiunQKBgn8lrlkdoJuM4JkLeBQ?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

06-24-2020, 11:40 AM

I went up to Portland International last weekend for the Friday Test & Tune with the intent of racing in Saturday Enduro if the car ran well. It didn't, the trans overheated in 15 mins, hitting 255 degrees both sessions. Also the car is down on power compared to cars in classes I should be able to out accelerate. Specifically the Spec E46 cars were walking away from me as we accelerated down the front and back straights. They are 2850 lb cars with spec 225 HP engines. (12.6l bs/hp). I'm at 2260 lbs all in race wight with 226 HP (by dyno tune numbers). I should be the one walking away from them. I pulled up my VBOX data, I was accelerating from 50-100 mph in 12 seconds. My STI in the same places at PIR accelerates from 50-100 mph in it's 8.5 lbs/hp tune in 6.5 to 7 seconds.
Something is not right. I don't have the math skills but I'm sure there is a way to calculate HP to drive a 2260 lb car from 50 to 100 mph in 12 seconds.
We are unsure if whatever is causing the extra friction in the trans and overheating it is also causing the performance problem, or if the dyno is reading high (meaning it reads 226 HP but I'm really at 200 HP). First, we have to cure the trans heat issue, then we'll work on the power/tune issue.

The good news is the car corners better than I expected with the 200 TW street tires, Toyo R1Rs. Once we have the right power setting and the trans heat is solved I should be on the podium in the enduro P1 class races (as long as nothing breaks).

I also have to get a 16 gallon fuel cell for sure. 16 gals matches the OEM 2005 WRX/STI tank size, good for class racing rules. Or I have to be sure to have a pit crew to re-fuel even in a 1 hour race. My Boyd tank is only good for 43 mins at PIR. Both Fuel Safe and Pyrotect are here in Bend. The Fuel Safe guys are itching to design a fuel cell for the 818 so that will be an off season project for us.

More good news, my new helmet eliminates the wind buffeting. No longer do I feel like my head is being pulled off my shoulders. The wing and duckbill make a huge difference. Bell GTX3.

The COVID rules were a pain in the rear! Despite the rules quite a few drivers came by to say how cool the car looks. In the grid I was asked several times what kind of car it is and comments on how good it looks. Well I may not be fast but I look doing doing it!

Mulry

06-24-2020, 11:49 AM

That's frustrating. We're chasing down a MAF problem right now (may hit you up for some speed density tips if we can't get the MAF to deliver). We've installed a trans cooler with a pusher fan that we're planning to route to the side scoop, hopefully the forced air will make a difference since apparently that scoop isn't especially a high pressure zone. Our intake is through the front hoop like on the Porsche RS Spyder.

Really wish that FFR hadn't just dropped the baby on this project. Glad to hear that about the helmet though!

Sgt.Gator

06-25-2020, 07:58 PM

https://wz1mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mocMljocq-w6VvGoSa6sucl6lUkrT152gwYp5FMIXnNE7zMZUis1g6I3GsyU YonZb0psLhFJaZdsq2oZZN98Ky9JNHzBzBxVvxm9MQog174j8Y svvXeOOd6kY68fEIyminc9_7K8Xv_YfMKmcQE6q4vFnex75alI ehgJinXSisDY8Mp8iwiGFQ3Tx9EADAhMjeVPjuV1jPqFQbGmTj g_UWQ?width=1024&height=477&cropmode=none

Image Courtesy of ZF Design

Red line would be fluid level inside the 5 speed as OEM mounted in a WRX, with the tail down.
Blue line is a 7* angle This represents the fluid level in an 818 if the trans is installed per Factory Five assembly instruction.
Magenta line is 7* angle but filled 1.5" above the full mark.

Factory transmissions have roughly a 5.3-5.9* tail down slope from Subaru (5mt, 6mt, auto)
The Factory Five installation has a 3.5* to 4.5* tail up slope in an 818.

It's pretty clear that Subaru designed (Red line) it so the fluid would be level right at the axle seals, and just touching the bottoms of all the gears. When we install the trans in an 818 (Blue line) the oil barely touches the first set of gears, and by the time we get to 5th it's dry as a bone.
Overfilling helps but still doesn't reach 5th gear. And it submerges the forward gears, ring & pinion, and front diff in a lot of fluid, causing more parasitic losses and probably foaming. It also increases the chances of axle seal weeping.

If you are following the 818R forum and my thread there on tracking your tranny temps, you've seen Fate066's post on what his shop has seen on 818 five speeds come in for repair. FYI, Fate066 is Zach at ZF Design in Colorado. He has re-built both my STI 6 speed and now my 818R 5 speed and is working with me to determine why I'm seeing such high temps. He thinks it's caused by the lack of oil in the tail section. He created this image in his CAD program to illustrate the problem. You can see more about his shop on Facebook, ZF Design.

So our next steps are to lower the rear of the tranny as much as possible to get near the OEM slope. If needed we will raise the front motor mounts. And finally overfill if needed. We hope to have this done by the end of next week so we can test the temps at ORP at our next club track days July 3-4-5. Fingers crossed!

Frank818

06-25-2020, 08:11 PM

Sgt.Gator

06-25-2020, 09:49 PM

Your scoop filling the air filter is AWESOME!
But how good could that be if your trans overheats... you seem to have the exact type of issue I have been facing in the past years: super weird things going on. These are *****es.

I hope you get get that fixed, I have not heard of anyone else with the same issue, is it me who just didn't read their posts or you have something different from them on your setup?

There have been plenty of 5 speed failures. it's usually blamed on the weak 5 speed design with the 75mm shafts vs the 6 Speed 85mm shafts and heavy duty case. No doubt some failure are that issue, but how many builders have a temp gauge sensor in the trans? Hardly any. I didn't unitl I rebuilt my failed 5 speed. Many builders have raised their trans, or lowered the tail a little bit, mine was not. It was one of the first builds before this issue was really thought thru. Now I'm fixing it.

In the 818R forum thread I thought it was only a track issue. But now seeing Fate066's image I think it applies to all 818s, it's just the track 818s that see it more prominently.

Frank818

06-26-2020, 05:29 AM

Sgt.Gator

06-26-2020, 09:06 AM

I understand better, it was an excellent decision to fit that temp gauge! Would anyone with the same issue be able to hear the noise difference between 1st and 5th? I mean does a dry gear make noise in a way you can tell it's lacking oil vs a wet gear cutting through enough oil?

I've never noticed a noise. The quick solution is to drive around a while then check around your trans with an IR thermometer. See https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36455-Track-and-Post-your-Tranny-Temps-with-IR-Thermometer-or-a-Gauge

it's a good idea to check your air intake tract and around the engine too.

Mulry

06-26-2020, 09:15 AM

Sgt.Gator

06-26-2020, 10:05 AM

What are you using as the return from your trans oil cooler? I haven't had our trans open for years, so I don't remember the tailstock plate situation all that well, but I wonder if drilling and tapping a hole on that plate would provide good lubrication at the top of the hill (so to speak) so that all the gears and seals remain sufficiently lubricated.

It dumps directly on top of 5th gear:

https://z51mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4maku5bAMrPjILMib-a5msieweHeMg3NPnE4r3XXIBIhG98xMJs52bFqL8o7sCZbClep 8mYWYgWB59TSlXk1l_aZgcXK88PH1qRZyssvyeJ_3z6GfK2_YK Wjw8BUwwfykpPgTEudvtRzZjB5I4xuX8a0JXZ6VIgHvGwe7ph1 xOqrAu5YqpmZeHEnPaQxnw5PF8W9d4Gf64N1SKKXLs9JvZNg?w idth=1024&height=639&cropmode=none

The blue and yellow lines were me playing with a level to figure out if I fill it this high in the tail, where does that show up front on the stick?

https://zp1mjg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mKP_H5keeTPrEbEFyoDvg3Fnnl0G0Q8eRLkS_9TNeEJI8_G4 Snk9rQnp2GfMNveOxUfTbuGBPOBXENip4FjWJ2aeD70lYVw-TYxykK_3lPous_nAm5kVfNGIWmw1VSt84tbRLwOKdDcQZMG8dD O1hQ40tbZJYqzCUoV_c2UIuXrJPDbipj_qmI868Ldyc1KG1kgx EuHnwERxmRGg3m-HyWw?width=926&height=1008&cropmode=none

If lowering the tail and raising the front doesn't fix it then there's something internally wrong. I've ordered a JDM import 5 speed to have as a spare. If this one overheats we'll swap in the JDM trans while we ship this one back to ZF. And we'll see if the JDM runs hot too. Having a spare 5 speed is a necessity for something like the 25Hour THill anyway, and they are really cheap compared to even my tow costs to some races.

Sgt.Gator

06-28-2020, 12:54 PM

Flamshackle

06-29-2020, 06:13 AM

It looks like we can drop the tail 3 - 3.5". We cut out the frame X under the trans and are adding a new tail mount, then re-doing the support under the trans. We'll also have to put a small cutout in the diffuser, and a mod to a diagonal brace to clear the exhaust. Pics soon. Then off to ORP for testing next weekend to see if all this really matters.

Mate this could be an important mod, thanks for sharing

aquillen

06-29-2020, 08:41 AM

It looks like we can drop the tail 3 - 3.5". We cut out the frame X under the trans and are adding a new tail mount, then re-doing the support under the trans. We'll also have to put a small cutout in the diffuser, and a mod to a diagonal brace to clear the exhaust. Pics soon. Then off to ORP for testing next weekend to see if all this really matters.

Like to see your pics on this. I got almost an inch this way which was pretty simple - see post #42

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?20434-Art-s-818-build/page2

Santiago

06-29-2020, 11:36 AM

Yeah, I'm all for minimizing the cut/chop work, but I don't see any way to get the angle needed without something like this sort of effort.

The challenge is that to recoup the 7° delta over a 26-27" span (the distance from engine mount to trans mount), you need a 3.25" to 3.5" drop. Raise the engine or lower the trans as you like, it has to add up to a difference of about 3.5" over the FFR set up.

Looking forward to seeing pics! [And here I thought I was done with my cut-n-weld phase...:(]

Sgt.Gator

06-29-2020, 07:10 PM

Trans is in on the new mount. It sits at a 1.6 degree tail down slope now. Not quite as good as oem in a WRX. The only way to get more is to raise the front motor mounts. We'll try it here for now. As you can see in the pics the diffuser will have to be trimmed to let the new mount thru it. The CV axles angle up towards the wheels now, but not too bad.
One plus with this new system we are making a place to jack the rear of the car up with a single jack. We are also adding side lift jack hard-points that slide in at the roll bar base. Pics soon on that.
We're doing a bunch of other work on data logging with a new AIM dash/logger.
And a surprise wing mod. :cool:
We have three days of test & tune time at ORP this weekend, hopefully the trans will be a non issue now. I'm not 100% convinced this will fix it, we have to try this first though before shipping it back for another tear down. I've ordered a spare 4.44 five speed in case this doesn't work.

130761 130762 130763 130764 130765 130766 130767 130768

Frank818

06-30-2020, 06:12 PM

The CV axles angle up towards the wheels now, but not too bad.

HAHAHAHAHA!! Have you seen mine?? You are WAY ok on that one, trust me! Don't worry a bit about it. :)

Sgt.Gator

07-01-2020, 10:52 AM

We are testing a AIM MXM dash/datalogger. It is by far the least expensive combo dash/datalogger AIM sells. AIM loaned it to my tuner because they weren't sure how well it would work with a JDM ECU from 2002, so we are testing and providing them feedback. So far it looks like ot will work fine. But we won't know for sure until this weekend.

What we are logging: We used up the 4 analog inputs with Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature, Crankcase Pressure, Transmission Temperature. On the bus we will have wideband AFR, boost, and all the usual data for tuning.

The dry sump is a hybrid venting system. It's not sealed, nor is it open. As long as the DS pump can keep up with crankcase blow-by and create a vacuum, the block is "sealed". If blow-by becomes too much and the crankcase starts to go positive a one way valve opens up in the vent line and it now is an open system venting to the DS tank and out a vent overflow bottle. On the line before the one way valve we have a AEM sensor that is data logging to the AIM dash.

In this image you can see our remote mount oil pressure sensor getting pressure off the front oil port, and the crankcase pressure sensor remote mounted with a line to the vent system in front of the one way valve.

130877

If you haven't thought about why you might want to at least have a gauge on your dash monitoring crankcase pressure this Flatirons video does a good job explaining it:

https://youtu.be/HAvxjSdQsXI

Sgt.Gator

07-03-2020, 10:36 PM

I am happy to report that the transmission tail lowering worked! And not a little, I mean hugely. I ran multiple sessions all day, the hottest the tranny got was 189 degrees. I'm still at the track and will run thru another set of sessions tomorrow, but I'm very confidant now that the trans temp issue is solved.

The only change from the last track day was lowering the tail of the trans to approximately negative 1.6 degrees. I am amazed it made that much difference. I was skeptical this would work but based on Fate066's recommendation (Zach at ZF Design) we went for it and he was right.

Kudos to Fate066 of ZF Design for helping me work thru this issue, and kudos to Josh and Alec at Arcflash LLC in Bend for the fabrication work and sticking with me thru long days and nights of doing and redoing their work.

I consider this a must mod not just for the 818Rs being tracked but all 818s on the street too. I consider it a basic design fail that FF needs to address in the frames they are building now.

Here's the mount hanging below the diffuser. We are going to add a wedge shape around it to get the smooth flow back under the car.

https://qjqcea.by.files.1drv.com/y4mzmCpJCO9BPnp_2cHijiW905ZBzaEBB6-26Sym6eEQmj4hOA6yoFJNRkyClapyWjP-MPhmhsupFsoiVcEQPmQcYHMK9WeWU6-rOHOejS5-IsJx4y2P751mtxFDIpImOAk673xKjmOvwvSeM42dmrMJ3PwDpw a_8GpsLMT5-dZ20f_NVCLR7z-7qpl2BCMLU5TBr44aRx8R347PPtxKJMU9w?width=1024&height=491&cropmode=none

Gator's doing the Happy Dance Tonight!

Santiago

07-04-2020, 10:57 AM

That's fantastic news Gator! Very glad to hear it...not so glad it means I'm walking towards my chassis again, grinder in hand with bad intentions.

I'll second that this is a "basic design fail that FF needs to address in the frames they are building now." Even with coolers in play bringing the fluid temp down, 5th gear hardly enjoys it. Heck, I'm still hot sitting poolside roasting in the sun, if I can't jump in the pool.

Santiago

07-04-2020, 11:02 AM

Quick Q: Seems that the easiest place to take a consistent measurement is off of the trans back-plate that FFR supplied to cap the trans (totally flat, same on everyone's car). So is that the frame of reference for your -1.6° measurement, and if not, could you take a measurement off of that plate?

Thanks and congrats again!

Frank818

07-04-2020, 11:23 AM

HURRAY!!!! Gator has done it again! One try to fix the issue and you nailed it! We love those.

Happy 4th, man! And Happy 818!

Sgt.Gator

07-05-2020, 02:14 PM

Sgt.Gator

07-05-2020, 07:19 PM

A quick Trans Temp update: We ran 5 sessions today, none were more than 20 minutes because we were primarily engine and aero testing, but more good news, I don't think we saw over 169 degrees on the trans temp monitor!

We verified the sensor temp with an IR thermometer. The trans case next to the exhaust was 200 degrees. The trans case on the opposite side was 133 degrees. So if the average temp of the oil is between the two we get 166.5 degrees.

Sgt.Gator

07-09-2020, 10:09 AM

Hobby Racer

07-09-2020, 12:40 PM

Arcflash LLC installed side lifts jacking points on the 818, the same as we have on the STI. On the 818 there is only one per side, tied into the main roll hoop to frame. Much easier to change tires and even get on the lift now.

Ok. I've been fighting the need for an easier way to lift the car. Now I have to cut a hole in the pretty body and do a side lift point like your.

Sgt.Gator

07-09-2020, 01:32 PM

Ok. I've been fighting the need for an easier way to lift the car. Now I have to cut a hole in the pretty body and do a side lift point like your.

I got the idea from Retro Racing when we were at the Cascade Enduro. They use square tube and offset it. We went with simple round tube to match what we already have on the STI. Here's Retro's:

131490..131491..131492

Santiago

07-13-2020, 11:24 AM

Ok. I've been fighting the need for an easier way to lift the car.

Always too many good ideas here...I was also looking for ways to avoid this, but it looks like more cutting and welding for me too... =)

Is the chassis pocket exactly in-line with the center of gravity or just somewhere close/convenient? How balanced is the car when lifted there?

Hobby Racer

07-13-2020, 01:06 PM

Is the chassis pocket exactly in-line with the center of gravity or just somewhere close/convenient? How balanced is the car when lifted there?

I'm curious to know the answer to that as well.

Sgt.Gator

07-14-2020, 08:51 AM

Always too many good ideas here...I was also looking for ways to avoid this, but it looks like more cutting and welding for me too... =)

Is the chassis pocket exactly in-line with the center of gravity or just somewhere close/convenient? How balanced is the car when lifted there?

I'm curious to know the answer to that as well.

Balance doesn't matter since both wheels on the opposite side are on the ground. The car can't tilt forward or backwards. That would only come into play if you tried to use two tools and jacks at the same time on both sides of the car.

The tool works great for jacking up one side to remove wheels, or to place wood blocks under each tire/wheel on that side. Say 4" tall blocks. Then do the same on the other side. Now you can get two post lift arms under the car to get it up on the lift.

Hobby Racer

07-14-2020, 10:17 AM

Balance doesn't matter since both wheels on the opposite side are on the ground. The car can't tilt forward or backwards.

I was more interested in knowing if the front and rear lift at the same time or does it lift one or the other first. Hence, is the lift point at the balance point of the car front to rear. I'm not trying to lift both sides at once :D

Sgt.Gator

07-14-2020, 09:49 PM

I was more interested in knowing if the front and rear lift at the same time or does it lift one or the other first. Hence, is the lift point at the balance point of the car front to rear. I'm not trying to lift both sides at once :D

The frame is plenty stiff to keep them both going up. Maybe it's my halo cage extra stiffening, but I'm pretty sure Retro's does the exact same.
Here you go:

https://9j8spg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mkN-qsCNfP4X9KpEdhB0JVVgymd7JU-mGYUTI743t1-mVHoDAF3hqxbydppi4QfNQ_Ct95LvL6MVEFuQGYq5_e5MOMVsD N5LY1WTnH6pSlP-XWHY_KvFajm6_5RqvmrQ-G_0_AnUyr8qx5DeHA-EZkyQS7Gee4rePNr72m3BKXyjpU8w2ArPkrpQh3-hJKDKAm9_APrDR9X43KiWB13NGLA?width=1008&height=576&cropmode=none...

https://8z8spg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mHIkdfav0cNLJ407mdMoZlr4SbZBnowb_KkM2feYgaNEgL7T vG8CWbQ0-lmDvST9imuVQ5par57JTW6ybY79PwK46L3wBhFNXoucE-EztwLCguqn_ALhr_w0Er8oe-6dCJcUYCzE-MsQZyMP7aFanmDPvz0WMCGbvzzFuFxapeQ0XIbE5_sHLdQzgGP wMl7o406x-AB-LFm6dGsEf5tcUcw?width=1008&height=575&cropmode=none

Sgt.Gator

07-14-2020, 10:22 PM

In the time honored tradition of the great pioneers in Motorsports:
Porsche

https://kcl7pa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mGyXQxDJ003CMjcWi4HOzdWcwKfjvRICSVovnMSliWy5hYZj BSrYe1OSli_Ine6uNzFE_MEd1lXQw3vfHrLEyP95z0nSe9Ugmy M7wViI5d-uT13HP5IIwHDNOepdVcgKclxf9LK8ET_KdaI4AFRnh0Q1qR0PQ Mj1CR4Datle8A9M1_Gsg23J9CLYQLKyG1F_JX81HbBAr5uawuI PaM8Fy7g?width=300&height=193&cropmode=none

Chaparral 2H:

https://kyl7pa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mjw_QeEuCnIIiqSc4wfatTsMt6CD0-2ooaYa882mqf80hLOv-z790ZOaZAkcF1WXHv2VoJtctHdqp9y6mkEBymmivWJRkFP9w1m aZFfPMKkGkO8R2FT4WkINbAeAPeNWUz5haipkB-pX9Gx_i3tcPM2w-a0WXg5CThnPJ1Ay-GMcUbvQeSaaeBTLDNNxmm3_QdN9Y8wevYr2omMO0UgvRAw?wid th=700&height=377&cropmode=none..https://9d8spg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mV-zAXiX3eLwpfBji2sfFR9j429eHCWb6xNQCRRoWxiZSnTpbyCBJ On3HvQUVWy-KduAw1JGmbWhIM4Z936wqclb_Mq-8G76iJOHXWDH1XA66JGMdtleBP4G0qfiCvwkFVs3dXy98k1bid GYTj4tQpVzil3QcATQj0HItGeTaPXEpqgXE_2kCr-C-alYSfNBTq4dHndryAlZpXF1F9iTT1g?width=700&height=369&cropmode=none

I bring you the Colonel Red Racing Biplane Racer!

https://7z93hq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mFfylZitqN6a4wUrnexvyZAlNoCcsciqz8UFIvx_XpCtI-usW7_UKVApCg_T2Qk0UqaAfEkoomzTVwAEKg2zvwN1C7CuCRkV 5FdRoR5w3Tuczxe1x6NWQGjIDvRnrN6HEugb-1hDf4e2gxyEFFyGErTEA59XDzGMnQVowKfQlZ4XtXrfIuuFj48 xUa_KKniRIqQxbYBq7IhQlDblogUcTIA?width=1152&height=773&cropmode=none

https://8t93hq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mxOzHqdOCZmEzV-rWm-IChc3OScu9-moSvAf5Jm5A-arj4T6tQCUi493NH4YWu4X5nPZdfTUZb6mzgKaRxim4TkXkXNs 7w_ER265-_pZ5faOuTF8A80XPbYJg5m3Y8kmTxrMUyx33Oneqii1RBwFO3y Tq23H1pklSJCrcMKu7upEWtyY2LLzzSL1lXiU66gOpw-5Dev179y9uCniewEEAxw?width=1152&height=732&cropmode=none

https://8d93hq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mWXLxB-FOvdbw_0E1XaQW6nyQlE-tO4aPapo7Db0wUVraiQz-tZG38Ky1kKOJV-wAmy_gLI7A3HIMPWoHIYXg4F5YdUh8SWPgp-WDMb_lm0Gau6gsgHbSIfcZr-yayiHZJTYjJJUj9XKS01lebsrMnE74V1HIC7oFtivbCLijB3X8 816P3DrwWy1gAgPVVi5tja4LHGp9Gjw8nf3MaiAybw?width=1 008&height=712&cropmode=none

Initial testing at Oregon Raceway Park was to see if the front wing would try to suck my head off my shoulders. It did not. In fact the buffeting was no more, and possibly even less. I have to give a lot of credit to my new Bell GTX.3 helmet. It has a duckbill and a wing, the difference has been dramatic over my standard helmet.

Once we determined the front wing was not going to cause driver problems we started recording data. First with no wings at all. Then with just the front wing:

https://9t8spg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mpTtC9eQuMWfOR1eBUvWHpCNvCSi-c6c9qoQ_J43ySh5w3h4afkY9aXMIiFsSF8TaWqFGioFYBU1csz-1hikajEScFDP7Wk-TFY5Z6bqq-tQrW_rFQ-FLPGr5YJU6vj1_dtUxx18_9w9xaics7fUed6wexzV9WWFIZdaJ 7-LPTtP7A3-wUkLyRAyaGXHo0i19DzAni-xIGmZZOMey6qeNyw?width=1152&height=594&cropmode=none

Finally with both wings. So far the data looks promising!

If we keep the Megan Racing dual element wing maybe we should rename it the Triplane Racer, a CRR Dr1. Or one of those big APR GT-1000s should do the trick!

The testing has been cut short though, the old 2.0L decided to pop. The only external damage is the timing belt has blown thru the timing cover. When cranked you can hear that at least one piston and other various bits are no longer connected to anything. Arcflash has a spare used STI engine with only 30K miles, we are putting that in this week. More testing soon!

Santiago

07-15-2020, 10:29 AM

Awesome!

I'd be curious to see your test method and results. Off the cuff I'd guess your aero balance is much improved with the mid-wing. My worry would be that the rear wing gets even more starved for airflow. Have you done any before/after tuft tests?

Best,
-j

Jetfuel

07-15-2020, 08:15 PM

There are pioneer racers....radical racers and then there’s Colonel Red Racing
Believe me when I tell you that I wish you all the luck in your quest for speed

Jet

Frank818

07-18-2020, 07:27 PM

Wooaa!!!!!!!!

Sgt.Gator

07-20-2020, 06:26 PM

I've popped a lot of Subaru EJ engines. But this is the weirdest one yet.....The head of one of the six fasteners that hold the dry sump baffle plate in the dry sump pan broke off, smashed off by the crankshaft counter weight. It then made it's way to the passenger side head and got lodged between the exhaust cam lobe and the bucket on Cyl #3 rear most exhaust valve which jammed the cam and caused the plastic exhaust cam pulley to vaporize. That caused the timing belt to blow thru the timing covers, and cracked the cam cover too. In this pic the broken stud has already been removed.

https://8t8spg.by.files.1drv.com/y4milXmeuGeE3iudNMeBz-e-_3Ow95EF4a8dyijBqjG3lFNoOd-NMjccNyR9zvRz63_wYi-EyRymwrFV4DEO2VE6HrCBDK5G5qDZxJQsJF6vJ_r3oMUhgUU7X vEiaWpPV_fbe6u0nAnbKkxH5yDkDADxo8Jw_F2KD0a7jGBYLkI NO9a-HPTWZ-1d2bwV7zleKlh3uRASSzEmgRyL-mVMgYRvw?width=671&height=672&cropmode=none

The other bolts in the baffle were slightly loose too. I guess we'll be using Permatex Orange on all the DS Baffle bolts going forward!

The good news so far: Almost no metal debris in the oil or anywhere else. One exhaust cam, bucket, timing belt, timing cover, valve/cam cover, and cam pulley to replace. Next we pull off the heads to inspect the valves and pistons, then split the case and check all the bearings and crankshaft. No point in getting this far and not going all the way to check everything.

We are modifying the frame braces above the engine to make pulling the engine out/in much simpler and faster. Pics of that when it's done. Meanwhile the used STI engine longblock is being dressed out and installed hopefully in time for ORP track days July 31- Aug 2.

When we get this engine put back together we'll either keep it as an 818 spare or sell it.