Oil cooler location size and ducting

[craigfree]

I've been combing through threads and can't find a lot of information on oil cooler location, mounting, or size.

I found one side mount oil cooler, but I'm wondering what was done for ducting to and from the side vent. I can't find any information on what sizes are being run either.

If anyone has pictures, could you please post them?

Thanks cf

[Hindsight]

I have pics in my build thread of mine. Just search it for oil cooler. I put it next to the transmission and it has a fan on it. It keeps temps in check but I do see some temps a bit higher than I would like on courses like Road Atlanta where you are basically running wide-open at very high speeds for most of the track if the ambient temps are in the 90s and above. On days like that, I can see 240-250.

Side duct would be best. You just have to fab your own mount and duct setup though. I haven't seen anyone complete a full on duct for it yet. Wayne has an oil cooler sitting behind the side vent of the new FFR 818R race car but last I knew, he had not yet ducted it.

[mikeb75]

I have just about finished the full monty for an oil cooler duct on the drivers side, but haven't actually tested it yet as car's not quite driving yet.

I widened the drivers side inlet, installed a Setrab 20 row cooler, perma-cool remote oil thermostat and ducting to seal the cooler to the inlet.

The 20 row cooler is a little too big - I widened the vent as much as possible (given the limit of the fuel filler tube), and only about 3/4 of the cooler is directly exposed in the vent.

The current one is : 50mm x 330mm x 193mm (D x L x H)
The previous one is (which would have fit better) : 50mm x 330mm x 146mm (D x L x H)

both of these are rated for turbo up to 350/400 horsepower (if I remember correctly)

layout (5" spread up top, 3 3/4" on the bottom)
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widened inlet
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cooler mounting
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building the ducting
69562
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finished pic
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Let me know if there is anything else you'd like to know about this install.

[Hindsight]

Great pics Mike thanks for sharing.

One thought I had, is that you don't have to have the cooler facing the vent. It could be sitting inside the vent, parallel to the quarter panel. You'd need to duct it well - you are creating a high-pressure area there and it forces air through, even if it isn't "aimed" forward. A lot of mid and rear engine super-cars do it this way, including the McLaren. Their intercoolers are sideways like that, and there is an oil cooler in front of the intercooler as well.

It's hard to see but you can see if you look to the right, you'll see an oil cooler toward the bottom, and an intercooler or radiator behind it: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4167/34189455096_fa1f3b6758_b.jpg

[mikeb75]

Interesting; the kind of install your picture shows would simplify extracting the hot air after passing through the cooler matrix. I had to cut an escape path into the wheel well which is probably going to reduce the efficiency of the cooler since I don't think that's a particular low pressure area. I was very limited once I had committed to the install shown.

The post-engine part of the bay is already hot with the exhaust and post IC flow, so dumping the post oil cooler flow wouldn't probably add much heat overall, and the back of the car -if well vented, should be a nice low pressure area to pull the air through. It would also definitely simplify the cooler mounting, which was a big thing to do correctly and took a few tries.

[Wayne Presley]

I'll mount my next one sideways and have the air ducted into it after talking with Jim about the wind tunnel results

[Hindsight]

Mike, yes I noticed exactly the same issue with the wheel well and splash guard.

If you wanted to REALLY go crazy with it, you would put the oil cooler in sideways (like in the McLaren Pic), duct it really well, but then built another duct off the back side of the cooler that transitions from the square shape of the cooler to like a 8" or 10" round tube. You could then get some flexible aluminum ducting (HVAC duct), hose clamp it to that, and then run the duct to the the lower rear vent in the bottom of the bumper and have it literally fastened to that mesh. That would guarantee that you have a very high pressure area in front of the cooler and a very low pressure area behind it, maximizing flow-through. This is what I was planning on doing, and it is also exactly how the Porsche 911 Turbo cools the intercooler. In the 911, the rear exit is in the bottom sides of the bumper just behind the rear tires. Of course, you could cut into the bumper to mimic this but the rear vent is already there in the 818 and usable.

Bottom line, all that is a lot of work and there are other things higher up on my list right now, but I know it would work great.

[EODTech87]

Mike, most of the stuff I've read says the wheel well is a high pressure area. If that's the case then the air is going to have trouble flowing through your setup.

[mikeb75]

Mike, most of the stuff I've read says the wheel well is a high pressure area. If that's the case then the air is going to have trouble flowing through your setup.

Yup. That's why there is a puller fan behind the cooler. :)

[Wayne Presley]

Yup. That's why there is a puller fan behind the cooler. :)

I have 2 fans on FFR's 818R

[mikeb75]

I have 2 fans on FFR's 818R

Everyone, take note! Wayne is sharing his ultimate speed secrets ;)

2 fans makes him go FASTAR!! (just kidding, I'm super envious of your talent)

[Mitch Wright]

If/when I add a oil cooler (haven't seen the need at my power level) I will use a water to oil cooler. Much easier to package and have proven effective on past race cars.
An additional option to consider.

[Mulry]

Great pics Mike thanks for sharing.

One thought I had, is that you don't have to have the cooler facing the vent. It could be sitting inside the vent, parallel to the quarter panel. You'd need to duct it well - you are creating a high-pressure area there and it forces air through, even if it isn't "aimed" forward. A lot of mid and rear engine super-cars do it this way, including the McLaren. Their intercoolers are sideways like that, and there is an oil cooler in front of the intercooler as well.

It's hard to see but you can see if you look to the right, you'll see an oil cooler toward the bottom, and an intercooler or radiator behind it: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4167/34189455096_fa1f3b6758_b.jpg

This is also true with heat exchanger layout on most LMP1, formula, and indy open wheel cars. They need more room for the exchanger than they'd have width for the sidepods, so they slant and duct the exchanger.

Wayne, I'd love to hear about how the wind tunnel results influence your thinking on this. We're going to start working on packaging of engine area components soon and I'd love take advantage of any natural tendencies of the body before we go into building alternative solutions.

Also, as an aside, it is difficult to overstate the value of effective ducting on heat exchanger efficiency. We were having worries about our e36 Lemons car getting the water and oil too hot (which, as BMW racers know, can be a tendency with stock cooling systems and will always lead to a compromised head gasket). Because air does not want to flow through a heat exchanger unless it has no other choice, we built a fairly simple but fairly leak-tight plenum from the bumper inlets to the coolant radiator and oil-air heat exchanger. Even when running for 2+ hour stints in 85 degree ambient temps most of the day, we could not keep our water temp above 190 without taping off some of the bumper inlets. That's a 30-40 degree difference just due to the ducting. At Barber in February with more wintry ambients, we absolutely had to keep the lower bumper inlet taped off to maintain a sufficient operating temp in the coolant and oil on a car that otherwise LOVES to get hot. YMMV, etc., but I'm now a devoted follower of the church of ducting.

[phil1734]

Also, as an aside, it is difficult to overstate the value of effective ducting on heat exchanger efficiency. We were having worries about our e36 Lemons car getting the water and oil too hot (which, as BMW racers know, can be a tendency with stock cooling systems and will always lead to a compromised head gasket). Because air does not want to flow through a heat exchanger unless it has no other choice, we built a fairly simple but fairly leak-tight plenum from the bumper inlets to the coolant radiator and oil-air heat exchanger. Even when running for 2+ hour stints in 85 degree ambient temps most of the day, we could not keep our water temp above 190 without taping off some of the bumper inlets. That's a 30-40 degree difference just due to the ducting. At Barber in February with more wintry ambients, we absolutely had to keep the lower bumper inlet taped off to maintain a sufficient operating temp in the coolant and oil on a car that otherwise LOVES to get hot. YMMV, etc., but I'm now a devoted follower of the church of ducting.

This.

So much this.

The best radiator fans in the world are only good for about a 10 mph wind. Use the air you're moving through at 50...70...100 mph to your advantage. Not only is a fan a restriction to your ducting but it adds weight, cost, wiring, failure modes, etc.

This 818 community absolutely loves to add fans everywhere and try to push air out the rear bumper. Spoiler alert: the air cools just as well in "reverse" as it does "forward." Stop trying to force it where it doesn't want to go. Let Newton, Charles, Boyle, Bramah and Bernoulli rest in peace.

[Hindsight]

I agree on the ducting. The difficult part is that you are really on your own once you make any deviations from the FFR-specified build (as most of us have), and ducting is very difficult to do on these cars in my opinion. Doing a really solid radiator ducting is a huge challenge due to all the things you have to work around like the nose support bracket, the portion of the fenders that are beside the head-light, the fact that you likely have two front radiators which are different sizes, and the odd angles of things. I still haven't added any ducting to my radiator because every time I look at the car, I can't come up with a really SOLID ducting design that I'm happy with and I know that if I commit to starting on that project, it would likely take me two full weekends. Just don't have that time anymore.

[Mulry]

The difficult part is that you are really on your own once you make any deviations from the FFR-specified build (as most of us have)....

Some would say it starts well before that :p

[Hindsight]

Some would say it starts well before that :p

Fair enough!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The best radiator fans in the world are only good for about a 10 mph wind. Use the air you're moving through at 50...70...100 mph to your advantage. Not only is a fan a restriction to your ducting but it adds weight, cost, wiring, failure modes, etc.

I agree with Phil,
My first radiator design was to put that radiator in the rear. I did this to avoid long coolant runs and bleeding and burping problems.

I could not get enough air through the radiator even with additional fans.
We bought an air flow meter and was only able to obtain 10 to 15mph air through the radiator at any vehicle speed.

Here is a couple of pictures of air flow behind cars.

69657 69658

Our solution was:
Fully ducted front mounted radiator.
Bleed hose on top of radiator and bleed hose on engine coolant discharge hose. These 2 hoses are "T"ed together and connected top of expansion tank.

Front mount AWIC for cooling intercooler.

Liquid/Liquid oil cooler.

Bob

[craigfree]

Wayne,
Any idea when you expect you mount yours? I have a 44 row narrow heat exchanger coming and right now I'm thinking of opening the side vent so it wraps around towards the front of the car. I'd love to see what you do first.

[craigfree]

Here is what I'm thinking right now to avoid the sharp turn for the air.

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u420/CraigFree/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170701_102454871_zpsou8ms0aq.jpg (http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/CraigFree/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170701_102454871_zpsou8ms0aq.jpg.html)

Probably overthinking this.

[RM1SepEx]

Add the side scoops too, mine are cut further than that for my AAIC

69668

[Blwalker105]

I have 3 new Godspeed OCK-5125 oil cooler and oil filter relocation kits. I can verify they do in fact fit Subaru 2.0 and 2.5 engines. They come with 2 oil filter pad adapters that make them mostly universal. The full retail price is $300 and they generally sell for between $235-$280. My price is $179 + shipping from Indianapolis. PM me.









[imghttp://i.imgur.com/uQ8vBOwl.jpg[/img]

[Blwalker105]

Sorry for the bad link:
http://i.imgur.com/6BrjwAm.jpg

[Blwalker105]

http://i.imgur.com/1RH9AyN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OFYXQbK.jpg

[Mechie3]

Bill, I'm still interested in one of those.

[NevaLift2Shift]

I have 3 new Godspeed OCK-5125 oil cooler and oil filter relocation kits. I can verify they do in fact fit Subaru 2.0 and 2.5 engines. They come with 2 oil filter pad adapters that make them mostly universal. The full retail price is $300 and they generally sell for between $235-$280. My price is $179 + shipping from Indianapolis. PM me.



PM'd.

[aquillen]

PM'd too.