View Full Version : Papa's MKIV Roadster Build - #9115 (Post Grad) - One million + views!!!
As I mentioned above in my punch list, I bought a new Russ Thompson pedal assembly. This is another upgrade I'd had on my list for a while but put off due to the thought of stuffing myself into the foot box to replace it. Well, since the easiest approach to installing the throttle cable on the stacks was to connect the cable on the stacks before installing the manifold, it made this the opportune time to do the pedal upgrade. All I can say is that if you haven't considered one of Russ' pedals for your build, you should. This is a very nice piece.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167934&d=1654871624
Mike.Bray
06-10-2022, 06:03 PM
As I mentioned above in my punch list, I bought a new Russ Thompson pedal assembly. This is another upgrade I'd had on my list for a while but put off due to the thought of stuffing myself into the foot box to replace it. Well, since the easiest approach to installing the throttle cable on the stacks was to connect the cable on the stacks before installing the manifold, it made this the opportune time to do the pedal upgrade. All I can say is that if you haven't considered one of Russ' pedals for your build, you should. This is a very nice piece.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167934&d=1654871624
That Russ Thompson pedal is a very nice piece, I bought one for my build.
I'm interested in two things from your stack conversion:
How well you're able to route the throttle cable.
How you handle the crankcase venting. I've had a few stack EFI setups and this has always been a struggle for me.
It's looking great! Just wait until you experience the response of that stack IR setup.
That Russ Thompson pedal is a very nice piece, I bought one for my build.
I'm interested in two things from your stack conversion:
How well you're able to route the throttle cable.
How you handle the crankcase venting. I've had a few stack EFI setups and this has always been a struggle for me.
It's looking great! Just wait until you experience the response of that stack IR setup.
Mike,
The cable routing was simple. The throttle cable follows the same S shape as the standard route. Jim installs a fixture and capstan for the cable setup or for a solid linkage if you go that route. For crank case ventilation, I used a non-PCV vent cap (breather) from Billet Specialties that goes into the passenger valve cover.
Dave
I tried to start the car today, and it ran, but not very well. I have two issues that need to be fixed first. I had a fuel leak and had to remove the convoluted pressure regulator assembly from Jim and add some Locktite 592 thread sealer on the non-flared fittings. I'm also looking at a simpler regulator configuration using the Aeromotive pressure regulator I bought a few months ago. Second, I have a coolant leak on the thermostat housing. I will need to remove it, clean it, and try again with RTV and a new gasket. Once the car started, it sounded really rough. I think the timing is way off and I'll go back through the distributor install and settings for the Dual Sync to make sure I didn't miss something there. The fact that it started means I'm close.
Today, before it got too hot, I was working on the coolant leak. I could see it was leaking at the water neck-to-manifold connection, so I took it apart and put a new gasket in and it still leaked. So, it came off again and got a bead of RTV with no paper gasket. It's finger tight right now and will get tightened up in an hour or two. I'm going to let it cure over night before filling it back up with coolant. The fuel system is ready to test with the exception of one fitting that will be delivered sometime today. Once that arrives, I'll check for leaks and hope that issue is solved.
What water neck are you using? I had the same issue on my engine with a cheap off brand, after three failed attempts I ended up buying a Ford Motorcraft neck and it solved all my problems. Another tip I received was using a few dabs of RTV on the T-stat to hold it in place so it will not move when attaching the neck to the manifold. Your setup is looking awesome, those stack injection setups look fantastic.
Here is the water neck I ended up purchasing:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-thermostat-housing-90-degree-302-351w-1979-1995/p/M8592M90/?year=1985&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3cePmK6m-AIVQxh9Ch28QQvyEAQYBCABEgIo3_D_BwE
Long day in a hot shop today, but the result is a win!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0oYW9oeD2UI
Now I can start dialing things in. First step will be getting the idle set correctly and then I'll synchronize the stacks per Jim's procedure.
Another short video clip after the idle came down:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZPhbcVeS-ew
What water neck are you using? I had the same issue on my engine with a cheap off brand, after three failed attempts I ended up buying a Ford Motorcraft neck and it solved all my problems. Another tip I received was using a few dabs of RTV on the T-stat to hold it in place so it will not move when attaching the neck to the manifold. Your setup is looking awesome, those stack injection setups look fantastic.
Here is the water neck I ended up purchasing:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-thermostat-housing-90-degree-302-351w-1979-1995/p/M8592M90/?year=1985&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3cePmK6m-AIVQxh9Ch28QQvyEAQYBCABEgIo3_D_BwE
It's the neck BluePrint installed. I finally got it to seal by using the RTV without a paper gasket.
KDubU
06-12-2022, 07:23 AM
That is a thing of beauty and she sounds good!
WIS89
06-12-2022, 09:03 AM
Dave-
Congratulations on getting her all buttoned up! She looks amazing and sounds just as good. It must feel extraordinary!! You must be so stoked!
Thanks for the update(s) and I am officially jealous!!
Nicely done Sir!
Regards,
Steve
Elation to deflation in less than 24 hours. Today I went to the next step and tried to synchronize the throttle bodies. While the car was running with me going back and forth turning screws, it started spraying coolant again and I have oil leaking at the rear of the passenger side valve cover. So, I ordered a replacement water neck (the Ford Racing part in cast aluminum. Once the car cools down again, I'll tackle the valve cover, drain the coolant and remove the water neck and clean it up in preparation for the replacement. I guess I'll do the oil change on the M550i while I can't work on the Cobra.
GoDadGo
06-12-2022, 02:26 PM
....Hang In There Papa Dave!
I Know You'll Get It Solved Soon!
I ordered the Ford housing, Ford gasket, and sealant made specifically for this purpose. It never leaked before, so either I'm doing something wrong or the intake machining is not perfect. I had a friend recommend using a product called Hondabond. Has anyone used it for this purpose?
Geoff H
06-13-2022, 11:58 AM
Not sure where BP sources the thermostat housing, but if it is the chrome unit with the bypass pressed in you are not doing anything wrong. A similar model used to be sold by Ford Racing and was well known for leaking through the bypass joint. I did not seem to matter what people would do - once it started leaking it needed to be replaced. If you search the other forum you will see this history. Here is one post just as an example: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/thermostat-housing-leaking.127224/#post-1091113
I think you made the right decision with the replacement housing. Looks fantastic!
Geoff
Well, another weekend and not much time to work on the leaks, but after replacing the water neck with the Ford part, and putting everything back together, I had a hunch my attempt at tapping the threads was not going to end well. When I was tapping the threads for the temp sensor, it just didn't go cleanly. The sensor threaded in, but it didn't feel smooth. As suspected, it leaked at the sensor. So, I get to do it again. New water neck will be here in a few days, but I'm not going to tap this one. I'm going to install the sensor in the heater port on the manifold. I will get this solved eventually, but at least when I started the car today, it fired right up and idled much better than last time. I'm pretty sure I resolved the oil leak on the valve cover. It looked like the cover wasn't seated fully and was hitting one of the throttle bodies that needed a small amount of clearance work. I hope that by the end of next weekend, I'm able to drive the car again.
Geoff H
06-19-2022, 09:54 PM
I did exactly the same thing on a water neck I had polished. It was the stock ford unit like the one you have. Had someone polish it for me, then tapped it for a fan sensor but did not get clean threads and it leaked. I had to buy another and chose to leave it alone.
My dad always says don't get too worked up - its life's tuition. I think I have paid enough in tuition to buy another ffr...
It will be amazing when you are done!
Geoff
I did exactly the same thing on a water neck I had polished. It was the stock ford unit like the one you have. Had someone polish it for me, then tapped it for a fan sensor but did not get clean threads and it leaked. I had to buy another and chose to leave it alone.
My dad always says don't get too worked up - its life's tuition. I think I have paid enough in tuition to buy another ffr...
It will be amazing when you are done!
Geoff
As frustrating as it is, I won't let it deter me. I just keep the end state in mind. Every failure is a lesson learned. I'll forget all about the little things once I reach the finish line.
Back at it again today. I relocated the coolant temp sensor for my water temp gauge to the heater port on the new intake.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168565&d=1656109920
I also powder coated the second new water neck.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168566&d=1656109920
It's reinstalled and I'll give it 24 hours before I try to add coolant and fire up the engine to see if the leak is resolved.
Good news -- the coolant leak is fixed. The bad news -- the valve cover leak isn't. I ordered some Permatex High-Tach gasket sealer to see if that fixes the issue. I'm surprised that I can't get the darn cover to seal using the high-end FelPro silicone gaskets, but perhaps the cover isn't machined perfectly. At least it's an easy part to remove and reinstall.
johnnybgoode
06-26-2022, 12:36 PM
Looks great! FWIW I have had very good luck with this water neck from BS. Scott
https://www.billetspecialties.com/Store/All/Item/ford-small-block-thermostat-housing/
Mike.Bray
06-26-2022, 02:45 PM
Looks great! FWIW I have had very good luck with this water neck from BS. Scott
https://www.billetspecialties.com/Store/All/Item/ford-small-block-thermostat-housing/
If it's steel it's going to be cast which opens all sorts of potential quality issues right there. If a cast housing is chrome plated it's probably going to have hydrogen embrittlement which is why so many of them end up leaking. Not sure about powder coating, I don't think the baking process is high enough temperature or time to do any stress relieving. It seems like every time I've tried a cast housing it's been a bear to get it sealed. Got tired of fighting and went to billet housings with a nice flat surface and an O-ring. Never had a problem with them.
If it's steel it's going to be cast which opens all sorts of potential quality issues right there. If a cast housing is chrome plated it's probably going to have hydrogen embrittlement which is why so many of them end up leaking. Not sure about powder coating, I don't think the baking process is high enough temperature or time to do any stress relieving. It seems like every time I've tried a cast housing it's been a bear to get it sealed. Got tired of fighting and went to billet housings with a nice flat surface and an O-ring. Never had a problem with them.
These are the covers I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011E5Y1KY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I put a straight edge on the passenger side lat time I had it off and it appears to be perfectly machined. There may still be a little interference that I need to deal with, which I'll check when I pull it off again.
Mike.Bray
06-26-2022, 03:59 PM
These are the covers I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011E5Y1KY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I put a straight edge on the passenger side lat time I had it off and it appears to be perfectly machined. There may still be a little interference that I need to deal with, which I'll check when I pull it off again.
Sorry, I should have been more clear I was talking about the thermostat housing. My bad:(
I finally resolved the valve cover leak and got the car on the road for the first time today since installing the stacks. It runs pretty good considering it's just using the default fuel map right now. The throttle response is noticeably improved over the TBI (Sniper) setup. Next step is to schedule time with the tuner and really get it dialed in. The other key difference is NO decel popping!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NLk3uhj-AyU
This morning my wife and I headed out for a little ride. She took some cellphone video. Not great video quality, but it will give you an idea of how it's running. I'm very happy with the improvements over my TBI setup. Can't wait to see what the tuner is able to do with it.
https://youtu.be/VpYFFyrhd3Q
Now that the car is back on the road, I thought I'd take a little time to recap the swap from the Sniper to the stacks. This was a big project for a guy that doesn't do engine work, but again, with the help of so many selfless people that are always willing to share their time and knowledge, I was able to do this in my garage.
This all started with gradually degrading drivability that started with the car dying for no apparent reason while just cruising down the road. I hired a guy to look at the Sniper's tuning via a remote tuning session. As he was fighting with symptoms that didn't make any sense, he asked me to put a pressure gauge on the inlet and check the pressure. I did that and found that the gauge was maxed out at 100 psi. Well, that indicated that the pressure regulator in the Sniper wasn't regulating the pressure to the required 58psi. I ordered a new regulator and installed it and the pressure was back to the 58psi it should have been. Then, the fuel pump began making a lot of noise and the car became virtually undrivable due to what felt like fuel starvation. I assumed the pump was failing, so it was time to dig in and figure out what was happening.
When I dropped the tank to pull the fuel pump, I found that the inlet to the pump was completely clogged with fine black particles. A look in the tank revealed that the fuel was contaminated with black particles. At this point, I decided to replace the entire fuel system; tank, pump, lines, filter, everything. It was at this point that I thought I'd really like to go to a MPFI setup as I always had issues with the Sniper fouling plugs and just running poorly for no apparent reason. It was time for a change, and I looked at a couple of MPFI systems before calling Jim Inglese and having a good discussion on stack EFI options. Ultimately, I opted to take the plunge and placed an order with Jim for the "works". I wanted everything to be replaced with parts that Jim knew would work well together. Shortly after that call, parts started arriving from Holley and then the big box from Jim came! I waited several more weeks on the ECU, a Terminator X kit to ship from Holley. After waiting more than I wanted, I started conversing with another forum member that was also waiting for the ECU. After that discussion, I started looking at the kit part numbers and found a different kit that was identical to what Jim ordered with the exception of the injector harness. Well, neither kit contained the correct injector harness and Jim had shipped the proper one. When I called Jim, he told me that if I could get the kit that I'd identified, he'd refund the price of the kit he had ordered from Holley. That worked out perfectly and I had the ECU in a couple of days from Summit Racing.
For the next couple of weeks, I read through the documentation for all the components, laid everything out, changed a couple of connectors that Jim sent to mate with the sensors Jim uses, and tried to get the courage to dismantle the top of my engine. I finally found that courage and removed the Sniper, distributor, coil, valve covers, and intake. I reached out to a neighbor that races and has several fantastic cars that he built to give me a little help installing the new intake. My biggest fear was that it would leak, and I wanted advice on how to prevent that. When the day came to install the new intake, we had dry fitted everything and were ready to go. He uses a product called Hondabond to seal the water jackets on both sides of the gaskets. We then used the same sealant on the china walls, tossing the cork gaskets in the trash. We set the intake in place and started dropping in the ARP bolts only to realize that there was no way to get the four center bolts in due to the way the intake is machined for the throttle bodies. I was going to need to use studs. So, everything came back off and got cleaned up. I ordered a new gasket set and a set of ARP intake studs. When the studs showed up, I installed them and dry fit the intake only to find that the four in the center were too long and kept the intake from sitting fully into place. McMaster-Carr to the rescue with some shorter studs and I was ready to try the install again. This time, it went fine and the intake was in place. Next came a lot of wiring for the Terminator X, CDI, and coil as well as some new spark plug wires. Finally, I installed the valve covers and filled the radiator and was ready to try to start the car.
I worked through the setup wizard and made changes for the specific sensors that Jim's assembly came fitted with. Moment of truth ... turned the key and it started, but was popping and shaking, so I shut it down. My only thought was that I was off on the distributor, so I pulled it and went back through the install procedure until I felt it was right. I turned the key again and she came to life. I let it warm up and noticed that I was leaking coolant from the water neck, so I shut it down. At this point, I tried multiple times to get the chrome water neck to seal and couldn't. Following the advice of many helpful builders, I bought a cast Ford water neck. I drilled and tapped the port for the coolant temp sensor, but that didn't go as planned and I basically ruined the part. I bought another one and decided I wasn't going to take a chance at ruining another $90 part and I relocated the CTS to the heater port in the manifold. Coolant leak solved.
I fired up the car again and started to synchronize the stacks using the synchrometer that Jim provided. As I was going from side to side, I noticed oil leaking on the rear passenger side and panicked! I was sure the intake wasn't sealed, and I'd have to pull it all apart again. After the engine cooled and I started cleaning up the oil, I was able to see that the intake was dry and found the leak coming from the valve cover. I pulled the cover, cleaned everything up, and reinstalled it. When I fired the car up again, the leak was still there. As I investigated further, I found that the valve cover was hitting part of the intake where the throttle bodies mount. I got out the carbide tip on my die grinder, covered up the rockers and proceeded to remove enough material to allow the valve cover to seat properly. When I was done, I cleaned up any signs of metal that found its way to the rockers and then reinstalled the valve cover and fired up the car. No more leak!!!
The car came off the lift for the first time in almost two months and went for a short drive around the block. It seemed to run pretty well and after the short drive, I pulled back into the shop for one last leak check. The CTS had a small drop of coolant at the threads. I tightened up the fitting and think that is resolved but will keep a close eye on it.
Today was the first real drive since installing all the new stuff, and I couldn't be happier with how it ran. I didn't push it but drove for over an hour and had absolutely no issues. Again, I can't say thank you enough to the guys on this forum, my neighbor, and Jim Inglese for helping me pull this off and get the performance and look I'd always wanted for this car. I have a small car show that I'll be attending next weekend for a charity event, so I'll get to hear what others think about it. I expect to be grinning ear-to-ear the entire time.
Congratulations! Looks awesome.
mburger
07-04-2022, 02:23 AM
What a great write up Dave. I have always wanted stacks but it was too cost prohibitive for me. You did everything I’ve been wanting to do including going with Jim. Your setup looks fantastic! Thanks for sharing your experience and taking us all with you on this conversion. Good luck at the benefit show. I think your Cobra will have a small crowd around it all day.
Railroad
07-04-2022, 09:13 AM
Do the stacks offer some form of air filtration? Love the look, great write up.
Do the stacks offer some form of air filtration? Love the look, great write up.
I ordered a set of BBR Filters from Jim along with the rest of the parts.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168959&d=1656945690
These can be removed in seconds for a show and reinstalled before heading back out on the road.
nucjd19
07-04-2022, 08:48 PM
Great write up Dave! And your engine is just stunning! In hindsight what is your opinion of the sniper and the 347 stroker. I have the same engine and transmission combo as you but went carb. Been really happy with my carb set up but as the years go on I might have to swap over to efi for a multitude of reasons. Your engine bay is just gorgeous!
Great write up Dave! And your engine is just stunning! In hindsight what is your opinion of the sniper and the 347 stroker. I have the same engine and transmission combo as you but went carb. Been really happy with my carb set up but as the years go on I might have to swap over to efi for a multitude of reasons. yule engine bay is just gorgeous!
I don't want to sour people on the Sniper as it is a very good setup that should work for most people. My issues were that I could never fully eliminate the deceleration popping that if I were 18 years old, may have been fun. At 57 years old, it drove me crazy. I know that the system could be tuned, but after spending several hundred dollars on tuner support and not seeing any real improvement, I was resigned to just deal with the issues. It did work well otherwise up until the regulator and fuel contamination problems, only one was a Sniper issue. Even with the issues I was having with the Sniper, it was way better than the carbureted car I had before the Cobra; my 1970 El Camino. That car wouldn't idle when cold and fogged the garage. Again, I'm sure it could be tuned, but I didn't have the skills to do it. I didn't even consider a carb on the Cobra.
Jeff Kleiner
07-05-2022, 07:36 AM
I've been following along Dave and as usual your no shortcuts, systematic approach and attention to detail are outstanding! The engine bay looks awesome and it sounds like you are more than pleased with the end result...win, win all the way around :cool:
Enjoy the drives!
Jeff
Absolutely beautiful!
If it runs half as good as it looks it will SCREAM!
------------
Jeff
GTBradley
07-06-2022, 10:39 AM
I’ve never fully understood those screens used on stacks. It looks like they wouldn’t filter dust and are only for say, racing. What am I missing here?
Nice work, by the way! That’s one good looking engine bay.
I’ve never fully understood those screens used on stacks. It looks like they wouldn’t filter dust and are only for say, racing. What am I missing here?
Nice work, by the way! That’s one good looking engine bay.
Bradley,
It's more about the large debris that I don't want sucked into the heads! All this gravel stuff Colorado puts down on the roads gets kicked up while driving. My air gap intake had quite a bit of it resting under the runners when I pulled it off. There are two types of covers for the stacks. Screens, which have no filter element at all, and the filter/screens that I went with that do have a very fine filter behind the screen. Definitely not going to keep dust out, but better than nothing.
Dave
GTBradley
07-06-2022, 11:30 AM
Ah, didn’t see that, thanks.
It looks like you are ready for the 1965 24 Hours of Le Mans.
mburger
07-06-2022, 08:59 PM
Dave, I really like the low profile breather. Would you mind sharing the part number or brand?
Also, those are the polished valve covers and not the chrome correct?
Again, what a great engine bay and the rest of the car ain’t too shabby either!
Dave, I really like the low profile breather. Would you mind sharing the part number or brand?
Also, those are the polished valve covers and not the chrome correct?
Again, what a great engine bay and the rest of the car ain’t too shabby either!
Mark,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the valve covers are polished aluminum. The breather and oil-fill cap are from Billet Specialties.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RV5VEK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RV5U9G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011E5Y1KY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
mburger
07-07-2022, 04:41 AM
Mark,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the valve covers are polished aluminum. The breather and oil-fill cap are from Billet Specialties.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RV5VEK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RV5U9G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011E5Y1KY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you!
I’ve been looking for a decent looking low profile breather because my AC line runs over that area.
Went to a small charity car show today. I had lots of comments on the car in spite of the heat.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169248&d=1657482413
Dave, the car was stunning before the addition of the stacks! Now it's just ridiculous. Fantastic job getting it all set up and working great.
I'm going to the tuner today! He expects to be done by this afternoon and said he'd give me a call before he wraps up the dyno work so I can come get some video. I am optimistic and excited to see what he is able to do.
Nigel Allen
07-17-2022, 06:01 PM
Good luck. Hope it goes really well for you.
Here is one of the pulls ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOY7IQuik_c
After this pull, we did a road test/tune and he tuned while I drove. The end result is a very well-behaved and drivable car.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169521&d=1658109330
mburger
07-17-2022, 09:21 PM
Are you happy with the numbers and how it feels?
Are you happy with the numbers and how it feels?
The numbers are right about where I expected them based on my calculations about a year ago. BPE made 438 at the flywheel at ~1200 ft. elevation. I assumed somewhere around 325 at the wheels at 6,000 ft. It was also very hot today with virtually no humidity. Check out the Mile High Nationals and see what the pros were saying about the struggle to make power. The more important aspect is drivability, and it has that at all RPM ranges and idles at 800 RPM with a nice little lope. It still jumps when you get on it and is smooth both accelerating and decelerating. I'm very happy with how it runs.
Those numbers are corrected to sea level, it shows a correction factor of 25-26%, which is probably about right for your altitude. It's just about impossible to compare numbers from that altitude to sea level. Blue Print numbers are corrected to sea level, but probably not using the same SAE correction factor (and they do not test it with accessories or mufflers). But the bottom line is they got it tuned right for your altitude, so it was money well spent. Go drive it!
Those numbers are corrected to sea level, it shows a correction factor of 25-26%, which is probably about right for your altitude. It's just about impossible to compare numbers from that altitude to sea level. Blue Print numbers are corrected to sea level, but probably not using the same SAE correction factor (and they do not test it with accessories or mufflers). But the bottom line is they got it tuned right for your altitude, so it was money well spent. Go drive it!
Bob,
Sorry I wasn't able to get numbers without the filters for you. He did the pull I recorded just so that I could get video. It was really interesting having him make adjustments in real time while I was driving. I could easily feel what was working and what wasn't. The tuner also said if I need any adjustments, he'll make them at no additional charge. Great guy and he knows his stuff on Holley EFI!
nucjd19
07-19-2022, 07:54 PM
Huge congrats Dave!!! I know you are relieved and proud (You should be. It is just beautiful). You have given me my next big project for my Roadster. I will be bugging you down the road about specifics. As an aside your paint is just stunning. I am curious your impression and review of the ceramic coat that you did on it.
Huge congrats Dave!!! I know you are relieved and proud (You should be. It is just beautiful). You have given me my next big project for my Roadster. I will be bugging you down the road about specifics. As an aside your paint is just stunning. I am curious your impression and review of the ceramic coat that you did on it.
Thank you! I'd be more than happy to answer any questions. On the ceramic coat, the guy that did my car really brought the paint to life. He's very good, but definitely comes at a price. He spent two full days on my car. The paint really shows the depth. Well worth the money spent.
LateApex
07-30-2022, 03:01 PM
I am having MAP sensor issues I believe. I get a steady 85 kPa, which is atmospheric pressure at my elevation, with key on, engine off. It does not move from there under any test run. Also reflected in Terminator X logging. It is burning super rich, which talks to a basic disagreement between MAP and TPS sensors (or so it might seem). I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem.
I have swapped out the sensor, same problem. The wiring is simple: 12V, Ground and Signal. And per Inglese's pinout, I believe I have hooked the 3 pins up correctly. I have ohm'd out 12V and ground between this connector and the TPS connector, which shares those same wires (per RF schematic).
I am about to buy and insert a new connector, on the off chance that one of the pins is munged up or some such. It is interesting that the pressure reading is correct initially, but that it does not vary as it should under throttle. How could the Terminator X read a correct value key-on, engine-off, and not vary after the engine is fired up, and the problem not be sensor related, which it isn't under trial by substitution?
MAP is configured as "Internal 1-bar" with no offset in my Term-X global config file. The sensor is a Delphi PS10000.
If chasing electrics provides no joy, next step would be to removed the intake manifold and see if the sensor port is somehow blocked .... This is an eight-stack, and so I am now wondering exactly how manifold pressure is sensed. Hmmmm ...
I am having MAP sensor issues I believe. I get a steady 85 kPa, which is atmospheric pressure at my elevation, with key on, engine off. It does not move from there under any test run. Also reflected in Terminator X logging. It is burning super rich, which talks to a basic disagreement between MAP and TPS sensors (or so it might seem). I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem.
I have swapped out the sensor, same problem. The wiring is simple: 12V, Ground and Signal. And per Inglese's pinout, I believe I have hooked the 3 pins up correctly. I have ohm'd out 12V and ground between this connector and the TPS connector, which shares those same wires (per RF schematic).
I am about to buy and insert a new connector, on the off chance that one of the pins is munged up or some such. It is interesting that the pressure reading is correct initially, but that it does not vary as it should under throttle. How could the Terminator X read a correct value key-on, engine-off, and not vary after the engine is fired up, and the problem not be sensor related, which it isn't under trial by substitution?
MAP is configured as "Internal 1-bar" with no offset in my Term-X global config file. The sensor is a Delphi PS10000.
If chasing electrics provides no joy, next step would be to removed the intake manifold and see if the sensor port is somehow blocked .... This is an eight-stack, and so I am now wondering exactly how manifold pressure is sensed. Hmmmm ...
The internal MAP is for the Terminator's built-in MAP using the blue vacuum tube on the ECU. That's what I'm using. Just connect a piece of vacuum tubing from the barb on the intake manifold to the blue tubing and you should be good. If you want to use the sensor Jim included, you need to select it and configure it in the Terminator software.
Dave
LateApex
07-30-2022, 03:36 PM
That explains the reading then.
Now to figure out what the setting must be to support the MAP included ...
Thank you Sir!
That explains the reading then.
Now to figure out what the setting must be to support the MAP included ...
Thank you Sir!
Jim's setup instructions say to use GM LSX for the MAP sensor he provides.
Dave
LateApex
07-30-2022, 04:24 PM
I don't know how I missed that ...
It actually runs quite well now :-)
Thanks Dave!
Well, it seems that my thermostat housing is leaking again. I'm considering trying one of these:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171352&d=1661045206
Does anyone have any experience with them? Any other tricks to get a leak-free seal would be helpful. I've tried three different gaskets, three different types of sealer, all with no luck.
Jessew
08-20-2022, 11:10 PM
Never on a ford motor, but anytime I use one on a SBC no problems. No sealant and multiple installs and removals.
Never on a ford motor, but anytime I use one on a SBC no problems. No sealant and multiple installs and removals.
Thanks. Sounds like it's worth a try.
Mike.Bray
08-21-2022, 05:39 PM
Well, it seems that my thermostat housing is leaking again. I'm considering trying one of these:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171352&d=1661045206
Does anyone have any experience with them? Any other tricks to get a leak-free seal would be helpful. I've tried three different gaskets, three different types of sealer, all with no luck.
Have you looked at one of these? Nice thick billet flange with an O-ring.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/csi-9111c
Have you looked at one of these? Nice thick billet flange with an O-ring.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/csi-9111c
I have. Billet Specialties makes one I like.
Billet Specialties 90620 0 Degree Swivel Thermostat Housing for Small Block Ford https://a.co/d/0Z2McbM
Papa sorry to hear about the water neck leak, FWIW I used a Felpro gasket and on both sides of the gasket applied this gasket sealer.
https://www.amazon.com/Fel-Pro-35440-Water-Outlet-Gasket/dp/B000C2CAGS/ref=asc_df_B000C2CAGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=462958779505&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1855252119551842951&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032457&hvtargid=pla-972441164282&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22071-Thermostat-Silicone-Gasket/dp/B0007TQW60?th=1
I have the same Ford Motorcraft water neck as you and after 4000 miles has not leaked a drop. I also let it set up for 24 hours before running it. Keeping the thermostat in place is also key using a few drops of silicone on the t-stat to hold it in place on the water neck. After about an hour it will hold it and not move around when you set the water neck to manifold.
Has it leaked since you installed it or did it just start to leak? Have you tightened all the clamps around the hose on the neck, possibly could be coming from clamp rather than the water neck seal?
Papa sorry to hear about the water neck leak, FWIW I used a Felpro gasket and on both sides of the gasket applied this gasket sealer.
https://www.amazon.com/Fel-Pro-35440-Water-Outlet-Gasket/dp/B000C2CAGS/ref=asc_df_B000C2CAGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=462958779505&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1855252119551842951&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032457&hvtargid=pla-972441164282&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22071-Thermostat-Silicone-Gasket/dp/B0007TQW60?th=1
I have the same Ford Motorcraft water neck as you and after 4000 miles has not leaked a drop. I also let it set up for 24 hours before running it. Keeping the thermostat in place is also key using a few drops of silicone on the t-stat to hold it in place on the water neck. After about an hour it will hold it and not move around when you set the water neck to manifold.
Has it leaked since you installed it or did it just start to leak? Have you tightened all the clamps around the hose on the neck, possibly could be coming from clamp rather than the water neck seal?
I did exactly what you described on the last instal and it seemed fine at first, but then started to leak after a few drives and the dyno tuning session.
Blitzboy54
08-22-2022, 01:42 PM
Well, it seems that my thermostat housing is leaking again. I'm considering trying one of these:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171352&d=1661045206
Does anyone have any experience with them? Any other tricks to get a leak-free seal would be helpful. I've tried three different gaskets, three different types of sealer, all with no luck.
I had a leaking housing and couldn't figure out for the longest time. Turned out one the bolts was a touch too long. It was bottoming out before getting fully tight. I tested it buy putting some washers in and it stopped. I eventually purchases a shorter bolt.
I had a leaking housing and couldn't figure out for the longest time. Turned out one the bolts was a touch too long. It was bottoming out before getting fully tight. I tested it buy putting some washers in and it stopped. I eventually purchases a shorter bolt.
Thanks,
That's definitely not the cause in my case, but appreciate the help.
Dave
johnnybgoode
08-22-2022, 04:20 PM
I hate coolant leaks and have spent several months chasing my own so I feel your pain.
Is there any chance that the water neck bolts go into the manifold water passage and coolant is leaking out around the threads?
The only other thing I have had some success with is to lap both mating surfaces with some 180 grit wet/dry. You can lap the water neck on a piece of glass, a machinist surface plate or even the top of a table saw with some WD40. The manifold is trickier when it's on the car but can be done. I usually find a very flat hard piece of maple or birch about 8x4x1" and wrap it with a new sheet of 180 and staple it to the edge of the block. I use it dry and hold it flat on the manifold mating surface and only move the block an inch or two as there i s not much clearance. You have to be very careful that the block is sitting flat and you are not lapping at an angle. Give it a few passes (it shouldn't take much) and see if there are any low spots. Once you have a uniform surface you should be good to go.
Dry assemble the parts and use a light to see if there are any gaps between the two mating surfaces and to make sure the thermostat is seated properly.
Once you are happy with the dry fit, glue the gasket to the manifold first with some Right Stuff and clamp it in place with the water neck. Let that dry overnight and then come back and do the final install of the thermostat and the water neck again with a little Right stuff on the gasket. Wait 24 hours, top up the coolant, and pressure test for leaks. Hopefully, there aren't any.
I personally like the o-ringed BS water necks which I've had good luck with. The above process works for those as well but leaves out the headache of sealants. Just use a little grease on the o-rings.
Scott
I hate coolant leaks and have spent several months chasing my own so I feel your pain.
Is there any chance that the water neck bolts go into the manifold water passage and coolant is leaking out around the threads?
The only other thing I have had some success with is to lap both mating surfaces with some 180 grit wet/dry. You can lap the water neck on a piece of glass, a machinist surface plate or even the top of a table saw with some WD40. The manifold is trickier when it's on the car but can be done. I usually find a very flat hard piece of maple or birch about 8x4x1" and wrap it with a new sheet of 180 and staple it to the edge of the block. I use it dry and hold it flat on the manifold mating surface and only move the block an inch or two as there i s not much clearance. You have to be very careful that the block is sitting flat and you are not lapping at an angle. Give it a few passes (it shouldn't take much) and see if there are any low spots. Once you have a uniform surface you should be good to go.
Dry assemble the parts and use a light to see if there are any gaps between the two mating surfaces and to make sure the thermostat is seated properly.
Once you are happy with the dry fit, glue the gasket to the manifold first with some Right Stuff and clamp it in place with the water neck. Let that dry overnight and then come back and do the final install of the thermostat and the water neck again with a little Right stuff on the gasket. Wait 24 hours, top up the coolant, and pressure test for leaks. Hopefully, there aren't any.
I personally like the o-ringed BS water necks which I've had good luck with. The above process works for those as well but leaves out the headache of sealants. Just use a little grease on the o-rings.
Scott
Thanks, Scott. I did scuff the surfaces as you described using emery cloth followed by lacquer thinner. I ordered the BS neck and will give it a try.
Dave
The Billet Specialties housing came and so I took everything off and cleaned up the intake. The BS neck has two o-rings that are significantly different thicknesses. The bypass didn't come close to sealing and coolant just started dribbling out from below the bypass as soon as I started adding coolant. So, back to square one.
johnnybgoode
08-25-2022, 06:17 PM
If it's the same as mine there are two o-rings. The thicker one goes into the groove on the mating surface and goes around the bypass. It's a bit of a pain stretching it into the grove (you have to stretch it to get some slack that can then be pushed into the grove around the bypass and it will want to pop back out). It basically seals the entire outer edge of the water neck against the manifold. The second o-ring should already be installed and it sits on the inside edge of the water neck and seals against the flange which allows the neck to rotate. Once you have the thicker main o-ring stretched into position immediately clamp the water neck to the manifold and it will mold into position over a few minutes/hour. Be careful not to pinch the o-ring or let it slip out of the grove as this will cause a leak for sure. Once the o-ring has formed to the groove you can take it off, install the thermostat and bolt it up for good. Scott
I found an old o-ring vs a new one to show you how it molds to the groove.
171518
If it's the same as mine there are two o-rings. The thicker one goes into the groove on the mating surface and goes around the bypass. It's a bit of a pain stretching it into the grove (you have to stretch it to get some slack that can then be pushed into the grove around the bypass and it will want to pop back out). It basically seals the entire outer edge of the water neck against the manifold. The second o-ring should already be installed and it sits on the inside edge of the water neck and seals against the flange which allows the neck to rotate. Once you have the thicker main o-ring stretched into position immediately clamp the water neck to the manifold and it will mold into position over a few minutes/hour. Be careful not to pinch the o-ring or let it slip out of the grove as this will cause a leak for sure. Once the o-ring has formed to the groove you can take it off, install the thermostat and bolt it up for good. Scott
I found an old o-ring vs a new one to show you how it molds to the groove.
171518
That's way different than mine. I have a small o-ring that sits in a groove around the bypass, and a larger o-ring that fits around the thermostat. The bypass ring is barely taller than the surface of the housing. When I tightened the two bolts into the manifold, it sits flush along the top, but leaves a slight gap at the bypass.
I went back to the Ford neck and decided to use the Hondabond HT without a paper gasket this round. I put a bit more sealer than I typically would and set the neck in place with hand-tight torque on the bolts. I'll let it sit for an hour or two then torque the bolts and let it cure overnight. Once it cures, I'll trim the excess from the outer edge of the seam. I will report back in a day after the stuff cures.
Chopper
08-26-2022, 09:49 AM
Papa,
I can't recall if you already tried this or stated a preference on it, but when I got my motor originally the builder (Mike Forte) had used RTV (I believe black IIRC) to seal the water neck to the intake manifold. Maybe an option if your current course of action does not work out and that seems agreeable to you. I'm sure you'll find a solution!
-Brandon
johnnybgoode
08-26-2022, 02:20 PM
Sorry to hear you are still having problems. I figured the BS housing would work for sure. Hopefully, the Ford housing will seal this time for you. Scott
Fingers crossed, reconnected all the hoses and filled it with coolant. Fired it up and ran it up to temp to get the thermostat open and burped the air from the system with no leaks. Waiting for it to cool now so I can put the filler cap back on and go for a test drive.
I went for a 40-mile drive yesterday and I still have coolant leaking. The good news is that it appears the water neck is sealed. I think the leak is now at the bypass hose on the water pump. With the clamp as tight as I can get it, the hose can still rotate on the nipple. I ordered a replacement that has the two different ID sizes for the neck and water pump.
My new hose is here, but it will have to wait until the weekend to swap and test.
I added a throttle return spring last week and forgot to mention it. On my 40-mile drive, not a hint of the throttle sticking! At least that issue is sorted.
Okay --- Success, sort of. No more leaks at the water neck or the bypass from the intake to the water pump!!! But, I still see a small leak coming from a brass plug on the intake. :mad: It's a 12mm Allen and I can't get my socket on it with the distributor installed. I just ordered a 12mm ball-end Allen wrench and I'll see if that works. I installed the plug with liquid PTFE thread sealer and may get away with just snugging it up since the threads are tapered. Almost sorted, but not quite.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171904&d=1662140315
Geoff H
09-02-2022, 12:48 PM
Great to hear you are close to having it solved.
A word of caution - likely will not happen to you but I would feel terrible if it did and I had not mentioned it. I had a similar situation where I applied a bit too much torque to a ball-end Allen wrench at an awkward angle (it was a smaller size though so you may be fine). It broke off right at ball/neck of the Allen wrench and was stuck in the bolt. Ended up removing all the parts that were originally in the way and removed the bolt with vice grips.
Good luck with whatever approach you choose.
Geoff
Railroad
09-02-2022, 04:08 PM
Use a bolt with a 12 mm head, grind every other flat down minutely, where the bolt will come out after tightening.
Use two nuts jam locked for something to wrench on.
Good luck,
Great to hear you are close to having it solved.
A word of caution - likely will not happen to you but I would feel terrible if it did and I had not mentioned it. I had a similar situation where I applied a bit too much torque to a ball-end Allen wrench at an awkward angle (it was a smaller size though so you may be fine). It broke off right at ball/neck of the Allen wrench and was stuck in the bolt. Ended up removing all the parts that were originally in the way and removed the bolt with vice grips.
Good luck with whatever approach you choose.
Geoff
I shouldn't need anywhere near the torque required to break the ball off the wrench. I just hope snugging it tighter will seal the threads.
Dave
D Stand
09-03-2022, 09:02 AM
Almost there!
Wow! This thread is over a million views!
YES!!! No more coolant leaks that I can see! I only did a short drive, but not a drop. I'll get out tomorrow and put a few miles on it to make 100% sure.
I'm declaring success. I just did a 20 mile drive and not a hint of any coolant leaks. What fixed it?
1. I used Hondabond HT sealant without any paper gasket. Like any liquid gasket, I ran a bead of sealant and assembled the part only tightening the bolts until sealant started to squeeze out. Then I let the sealant set for about 30 minutes before snugging the bolts down. I then waited a full 24 hours before putting coolant in the car.
2. For the bypass hose leak, my original setup had 5/8" nipples on both the water neck and water pump. The new Ford neck had a larger 3/4" nipple and I wasn't able to get the original bypass hose on the neck. I had a piece of 3/4" hose with a 90 degree bend and installed that, but I guess the clamp wasn't able to compressed the hose enough on the water pump's 5/8" nipple and leaked under pressure. Replacing that hose with one that fit properly on both connections fixed that leak.
3. Finally, the plug in the intake just needed a bit more snugging for the tapered threads to seal.
Next up, the breather I installed on my shiny new valve covers is creating a fine haze of oil residue directly under it. That's not gonna work for me, so I ordered the same breather but with the hose barb and an oil catch can that will let me put that oil someplace other than my valve cover.
PWR FEVER Upgraded Baffled Oil Catch Can Kit Aluminum Oil Reservoir Tank with 3/8" Strengthened NBR Fuel Line Black 400ml https://a.co/d/2eYGiQe
BILLET SPECIALTIES ROUND PLAIN ALUMINUM 1" PCV BREATHER,POLISHED,1" DIAMETER VALVE COVER HOLE,# 21125 https://a.co/d/9OUVBUK
I'm declaring success. I just did a 20 mile drive and not a hint of any coolant leaks. What fixed it?
1. I used Hondabond HT sealant without any paper gasket. Like any liquid gasket, I ran a bead of sealant and assembled the part only tightening the bolts until sealant started to squeeze out. Then I let the sealant set for about 30 minutes before snugging the bolts down. I then waited a full 24 hours before putting coolant in the car.
2. For the bypass hose leak, my original setup had 5/8" nipples on both the water neck and water pump. The new Ford neck had a larger 3/4" nipple and I wasn't able to get the original bypass hose on the neck. I had a piece of 3/4" hose with a 90 degree bend and installed that, but I guess the clamp wasn't able to compressed the hose enough on the water pump's 5/8" nipple and leaked under pressure. Replacing that hose with one that fit properly on both connections fixed that leak.
3. Finally, the plug in the intake just needed a bit more snugging for the tapered threads to seal.
Next up, the breather I installed on my shiny new valve covers is creating a fine haze of oil residue directly under it. That's not gonna work for me, so I ordered the same breather but with the hose barb and an oil catch can that will let me put that oil someplace other than my valve cover.
PWR FEVER Upgraded Baffled Oil Catch Can Kit Aluminum Oil Reservoir Tank with 3/8" Strengthened NBR Fuel Line Black 400ml https://a.co/d/2eYGiQe
BILLET SPECIALTIES ROUND PLAIN ALUMINUM 1" PCV BREATHER,POLISHED,1" DIAMETER VALVE COVER HOLE,# 21125 https://a.co/d/9OUVBUK
Congratulations!
It must feel good to get that problem finally put to bed. You have been fighting that leak for some time.
-----------------------------------------
Jeff
I installed the crankcase breather catch can today, so that should do the trick resolving the oil that was getting deposited there. The Billet Specialties breather I originally installed vented along the underside of the body, directly onto the valve cover. The PVC version I bought is sealed, so any oil will be moved from the breather into the catch can.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172268&d=1662763082
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172267&d=1662763082
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172269&d=1662763082
The catch can is baffled at the inlet, so any oil that arrives there should drip into the can and allow only clean air to reach the output port. I'll keep an eye on the filter to be sure it doesn't show signs of oil. Dripping oil on a hot header would not end well. If needed, I can relocate the outlet filter someplace further away from the header.
Well, I found out that my strategy to prevent the oil haze on my valve cover was not the best way to go. With the new valve covers, I installed an oil fill cap (sealed) and the breather that was venting directly on the valve cover. I replaced the breather with the exact same style Billet Specialties PCV cap and routed the vent to an oil catch can. Today, I found out that that was a big mistake. Evidently, the PCV by itself won't let enough of the crank case pressure pass and I ended up pushing oil out of the dip stick tube! What a mess. So, I reverted to the Ford Racing breather cap that I was using before doing the stacks and that seems to be enough to let the pressure out and vent through the catch can. I'll put a few miles on the car tomorrow and will see if that fixed the issue.
Good news! It looks like the oil issue is resolved; lesson learned.
Mike.Bray
09-18-2022, 05:28 PM
Good news! It looks like the oil issue is resolved; lesson learned.
It makes sense without the PVC valve connected to vacuum it wouldn't work. So you just have a breather in the valve cover without a PVC valve connected to a catch tank? That's what I'm thinking of doing.
It makes sense without the PVC valve connected to vacuum it wouldn't work. So you just have a breather in the valve cover without a PVC valve connected to a catch tank? That's what I'm thinking of doing.
Yep -- breather vented through the catch can and no issue with over-pressure. Now I just need to be sure to monitor the catch can to be sure I'm not pumping a ton of oil through the breather.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172679&d=1663542677
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172680&d=1663542677
The weather is getting cooler and more comfortable here. I did a great Cars & Coffee this morning, and then put the car on a lift to work on a few things. First task was to wipe down the underside of the car as my oil problem made a mess. Next was to address a drooping passenger side pipe. The hanger mount bolt was loose and had seized. I had to cut it off and replace it, but it looks like that should correct the droop. Finally, I swapped the oil pressure sending unit with the new one that Speed Hut sent me a few months ago. My oil pressure reading had become erratic, and Speed Hut sent me a new sending unit. The new one is a bit different. Instead of the (+) and (-) posts, the new one has two spade connectors. One for the signal and one for a warning light. The ground is made through the threads, so I just wrapped up the unused ground wire. I may actually put a warning light in the dash for the oil pressure someday.
Tomorrow I'll be doing a long 200+ mile drive with the Mile-Hi Cobra Club. We're meeting in Golden and then heading up Golden Gate Canyon and over the Peak-to-Peak Highway into Estes Park to view the fall colors as the Aspens are blazing.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173051&d=1664074782
From there, we head down the Big Thompson Canyon into Loveland for lunch and back home. This will be a good test of the new injection setup and I hope to gain a little confidence in the car again after all the recent issues. The last few short drives have been trouble-free, and the car is running great.
The drive today was a pretty good test of the car with nearly five hours of drive time.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173070&d=1664157132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubz2KJM1UDI
The car performed perfectly with one exception. The oil pressure gauge was still showing erratic readings. What else can I look at that would cause this? The pressure used to sit at about 40 PSI and go up to around 60 when driving at speed. The gauge now shows 60 PSI at idle and will come up to 80 and bounce between 80 and 100 PSI randomly. I'll be changing the oil next weekend and will get an oil analysis done as well as cut open the filter and inspect it. I suspect this may simply be a gauge issue.
Dave
Jeff Kleiner
09-26-2022, 05:16 AM
The one wire Speedhut oil pressure sender is notoriously unreliable and inaccurate. I believe the newer style 2 wire one is improved.
Jeff
GoDadGo
09-26-2022, 05:27 AM
Papa Dave,
What Amazing Views You All Have Up There!
Our drives haven't been anywhere near as fun.
Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
Steve (GDG)
orangecruz
09-26-2022, 08:17 AM
amazing build PAPA
What a beautiful drive! i have driven those roads several times, and the Cobra is the perfect car for them. I look forward to the day I can drive mine there.
Many congratulations on building a fantastic car! You inspire us all.
-------------------------------
Jeff
facultyofmusic
09-26-2022, 09:35 PM
Always wanted to visit Denver/Boulder area. Hope to drive with you in my own Mk4 with you someday Dave! That drive looks like a blast!
Always wanted to visit Denver/Boulder area. Hope to drive with you in my own Mk4 with you someday Dave! That drive looks like a blast!
You have some amazing coastal drives near you that would be a blast! If you ever find yourself in the area, give me a shout. Looking at your avatar picture, we may be in the same line of work!
Dave
I posted another part of the last Mile-Hi Cobra Club drive form 9/25/22 on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p61_Hi8GeYo
I need to get a better mount for the camera that is a little more stable. My wife and I are going to Hawaii next spring, and I'm actually looking into upgrading the camera to a new GoPro Hero 11 Black since it is waterproof to 10m deep without a separate case and up to 60m with a separate case.
A couple of weeks ago, while I had the car on a lift to do an oil change and look things over, I noticed that my number five spark plug wasn't seated as far into the head as the others. Shure enough, the plug threads showed evidence that it was cross-threaded. So, I ordered a 14mm spark plug thread chaser and coated it in grease before threading it in to repair the threads. A new spark plug threaded in cleanly with a little anti-seize on the threads and all is good.
I also bought a new GoPro Hero 11 Black camera and a different rollbar mount and wanted to try it out. The new camera has a feature that locks the horizon and does a brilliant job at stabilizing the video. What I didn't expect was the rattling sound that the camera picks up on rough roads. I suspect this is likely coming from the trunk aluminum since I never used any of the sound dampening material on those panels. Here is a video using the new camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8IkShBWOWc
Also, for anyone that still believes that stacks aren't "drivable" at low speed/RPM situations, this video should dispel that. For a good portion of this clip, I'm puttering along in 4th gear at 35-40 mph.
Mike.Bray
10-23-2022, 05:20 PM
Also, for anyone that still believes that stacks aren't "drivable" at low speed/RPM situations, this video should dispel that. For a good portion of this clip, I'm puttering along in 4th gear at 35-40 mph.
100% correct! I've had Webers and their finicky reputation is well earned. I've had some early EFI stack injection systems with primitive DFI/Accel ECU systems running on Alpha-N maps. Even with that they were very drivable. Today's IR systems with Map sensors that work, wide band O2 sensors, and sophisticated ECUs like from Fast or Holley run as well and are as streetable as anything else. About the only thing you have to do different is make sure the airflow is balanced through the throttle bodies and check it every few months.
A SBC with a Moon crossram intake manifold and TWM EFI throttle bodies.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/motor2.jpg
Nigel Allen
10-23-2022, 05:57 PM
G'day Dave,
I just purchased one of these cameras as well. I also bought the media mod and a small microphone with the plan that I can move the mic to a place where I won't get unwanted noises. I will let you know how I get on, when it stops raining for long enough for me to try it out.
Cheers, Nigel.
G'day Dave,
I just purchased one of these cameras as well. I also bought the media mod and a small microphone with the plan that I can move the mic to a place where I won't get unwanted noises. I will let you know how I get on, when it stops raining for long enough for me to try it out.
Cheers, Nigel.
Nigel,
If you haven't already considered it, "The Remote" from GoPro is a great accessory for this camera. It lets you start/stop recording without touching the camera; great for in-car control.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SHZ2BL3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
The camera also has a GPS feature that will let you view a "gauge" that can be overlayed in your videos to show your location in sync with the video. I haven't played with that feature yet.
Dave
Nigel Allen
10-24-2022, 07:07 AM
I haven't stumped up for the remote yet. Installed the GoPro app on my android phone, that is supposed to be able to control the camera, however, not sure, as apart from charging and firmware updates, I haven't had time to play yet. Have got a pretty decent roll bar mount and am looking forward to putting it all together.
Not having owned a GoPro previously, what is a good way to get files from camera to PC?
Cheers, Nige
I haven't stumped up for the remote yet. Installed the GoPro app on my android phone, that is supposed to be able to control the camera, however, not sure, as apart from charging and firmware updates, I haven't had time to play yet. Have got a pretty decent roll bar mount and am looking forward to putting it all together.
Not having owned a GoPro previously, what is a good way to get files from camera to PC?
Cheers, Nige
The GoPro app will let you control the camera, but not a good option when driving in my opinion. The Rmote is much better with a big fat record button to start/stop recording. You can strap the remote to your steering wheel or any convenient place that you can reach. For moving files to the computer, I just pull the XD card and pop it in a card reader on my PC.
Jeff Kleiner
10-24-2022, 07:28 AM
A couple of weeks ago, while I had the car on a lift to do an oil change and look things over, I noticed that my number five spark plug wasn't seated as far into the head as the others. Shure enough, the plug threads showed evidence that it was cross-threaded.
Dave,
Have the plugs been out since I put the set in while it was with me? I don't remember any of them being difficult (once you sent an appropriate socket ;) ) and would hate to think that I left it that way :(
Car is looking and sounding great!
Jeff
Dave,
Have the plugs been out since I put the set in while it was with me? I don't remember any of them being difficult (once you sent an appropriate socket ;) ) and would hate to think that I left it that way :(
Car is looking and sounding great!
Jeff
Jeff,
I likely did it somewhere along the way. I've had plugs in and out a few times since you last saw my car. It was actually the #1 plug, which I'd pulled recently to verify TDC when installing the new distributor.
Dave
It's spring in Colorado. That means that we'll get a 70 degree day on Saturday and start the day at 9 degrees with snow on Wednesday. Well, I fired up the Roadster on Saturday for the first time in months. She started right up and idled like a dream. I got out on the road and was having a blast with all the waves, shouts, thumbs-up, horns, etc. and then while cruising along at 40 mph, the car just died. It had done this a couple of time in the past, but as you'll recall, I completely redid the entire fuel system and ignition components (coil and distributor) when I installed the stacks last summer. The car started right back up after cycling the key off and then to start and it ran perfectly. I'm thinking I may have a bad ignition switch. Given everything that was replaced, I'm not sure what else could be causing the problem, but I'm ready for your ideas.
Dave
rthomas98
04-05-2023, 09:00 PM
Question is your EFI throwing any codes? Also how many miles have you put on since you installed the stacks? It could also be the system still learning. Given the altitude and temp swings I am guessing it is taking a bit. It could be ignition but given the cut out might be wiring shorting out as well. Does it do it after a bump or braking or any sort of event?
Question is your EFI throwing any codes? Also how many miles have you put on since you installed the stacks? It could also be the system still learning. Given the altitude and temp swings I am guessing it is taking a bit. It could be ignition but given the cut out might be wiring shorting out as well. Does it do it after a bump or braking or any sort of event?
I've put several hundred miles it since the stacks were installed. I had the car tuned and the learning parameters are pretty locked down. It had done this a couple of time before swapping out all the stuff last year, and just like before, it starts right back up and runs fine. The road was about as smooth as any here in Colorado, so it wasn't like something moved before it cut off. It is literally like the key was turned off. It was running smoothly, then shut off. No warning, no stumble, nothing.
Nigel Allen
04-05-2023, 10:25 PM
Some checkpoints:
1. Did you lose power to the gauges? If so, it is a power issue not the EFI.
2. With engine running do a 'tap test' with a screwdriver handle on the ignition switch body. Do wiggle test of wiring as well. Repeat for fuse panel and inertia switch.
3.rig up a pilot lamp temporarily mounted in the cabin from the power input to your EFI. This will indicate a loss of supply when you are driving along.
4. For all the trouble you have had, are you sure you didn't cross paths with a black cat when assembling the fuel system?
Hope this helps with diagnosis and I hope it makes sense as well. If it doesn't, reach out and I can help out some more.
Cheers, Nige
Some checkpoints:
1. Did you lose power to the gauges? If so, it is a power issue not the EFI.
2. With engine running do a 'tap test' with a screwdriver handle on the ignition switch body. Do wiggle test of wiring as well. Repeat for fuse panel and inertia switch.
3.rig up a pilot lamp temporarily mounted in the cabin from the power input to your EFI. This will indicate a loss of supply when you are driving along.
4. For all the trouble you have had, are you sure you didn't cross paths with a black cat when assembling the fuel system?
Hope this helps with diagnosis and I hope it makes sense as well. If it doesn't, reach out and I can help out some more.
Cheers, Nige
Nigel,
If it hadn't done the same thing before changing out the EFI, I might suspect that was a potential source of the problem, but I want to think that this is something purely electrical. The fact that it's only happened three times in over two years makes it very difficult to zero in on. The first time it happened, I actually tried to restart the car with the starter while it was still rolling and when I pressed the clutch and turned the key to start, nothing happened. I had to cycle the key to off and then it would start normally. That's what has me thinking it's the ignition switch. I just ordered a Cole Hersee switch and will swap it in. It's easy to do and we'll see if that resolves it, although it may take some time before I feel confident in that based on the infrequency of the problem.
Dave
Nigel Allen
04-07-2023, 07:02 AM
Agreed. I don't think it is EFI system either. Given the reported failures of the ignition switch, a replacement with a quality Cole Hersee is the goods and with a bit of luck, the end of your problem.
Great to hear that you have the car fired up, hope to see some more driving footage.
Cheers, Nige
I was invited to support the Collector Car Council of Colorado on Saturday at a local cars & coffee that featured several cars from various local clubs.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183812&d=1682904322
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183814&d=1682904322
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183813&d=1682904322
It was pretty poetic to be parked next to a replica Grand Sport Corvette!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ9DiyVVN8I
The never-ending excuse to do stuff on my car strikes again. This time I decided I really liked the look of the traditional Cobra oil coolers, but don't really need to cool the oil. So, the solution was to install a faux oil cooler.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184964&d=1685149580
Nothing difficult about doing this and since I wasn't actually planning to plumb it to my engine, I didn't need to worry about buying top-quality parts. I have just under $140.00 in this cosmetic update and I'm happy with the way it looks.
With all the rain in Colorado over the last several weeks, I haven't been able to drive the car much, so today I finally got around to swapping the ignition switch over to the new Cole Hersee switch. It was a quick 15-minute job. Time will tell if this is a fix for my intermittent gremlin.
Well, I can rule out the ignition switch. I took the car out today and it cut off on me three times. That's a first, as it has never done it more than once on a drive and as Iv'e said, it had been very infrequent. Perhaps we are getting to a point where I will be able to pinpoint the issue as it becomes more prevalent.
So, thinking through the possibilities of what else could be causing my issue, I want to focus on what is common to the electrical for the old and new setups. After the ignition switch, I am now looking at a relay that proves power to the coil. This relay is mounted to the chassis in the upper driver's side near the fuse panel. I replaced that and will see what happens. I'm also going to remove, clean, and reattach my main chassis and engine grounds.
I took the car out again today for about 1-1/2 hours and no issues. I'm not declaring victory yet, but compared with my last drive, I'm optimistic.
The car died on me twice in five miles yesterday. The first time I was sitting at a light waiting for a green arrow. Got the arrow and started through the intersection and it died. I coasted to the curb and it didn't want to start this time. Usually, it fired right up after stalling. It eventually fired and I headed home. About three miles up the road cruising at 45 on a level road, it died again. I put the clutch in and started to pull over. Since I had some speed, I put in a lower gear and dumped the clutch, and it came to life instantly. Today, I tested the battery (six years old) and the tester said it was bad. I also tested the charging system, which got a pass. So, I put a new battery in the car today and we'll see if that resolves the issue. It's interesting that I had no issue cranking the car with the bad battery, but I wonder if there could have been enough voltage drop to cause the EFI to cycle randomly? Unfortunately, if that was happening, data logging would not be very revealing since the file has to be saved before you cut power or there is simply no file available.
I drove the car for about fifty miles today and it ran perfectly. Way too early to tell for sure, but I'm really hoping that the battery was my issue. I'll update with another post if it dies on me again. I attended a local car show today. Perfect weather and lots of cars.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190422&d=1695604816
Windsor
09-24-2023, 10:30 PM
4-5yrs is normal for a battery (for me) and judging by your signature yours is in the 6yr ballpark.
Jeff Kleiner
09-25-2023, 05:20 AM
Dave,
I’m afraid your problem lies elsewhere. Once the car has been started if the charging system is working properly it’s running off of the alternator output—-the battery can actually be disconnected and removed.
Jeff
Dave,
I’m afraid your problem lies elsewhere. Once the car has been started if the charging system is working properly it’s running off of the alternator output—-the battery can actually be disconnected and removed.
Jeff
Jeff,
What if there was a brief dip in voltage that caused the EFI to reboot? The main power and ground for the EFI go directly to the battery.
Dave
Jeff Kleiner
09-25-2023, 07:55 AM
Jeff,
What if there was a brief dip in voltage that caused the EFI to reboot? The main power and ground for the EFI go directly to the battery.
Dave
Can't speak to the EFI Dave, but the charging system SHOULD maintain consistent voltage without any peaks or dips.
Jeff
Can't speak to the EFI Dave, but the charging system SHOULD maintain consistent voltage without any peaks or dips.
Jeff
I guess we'll just have to see if it dies on me again. I hate these random issues.
I went for another drive today for an hour or so with no problems. I'll keep taking it out as long as the weather stays nice and see if I can get some confidence in it again.
Just my 2 cents... I'd swap out the battery, but Jeff already said that may not be it. (I defer to Jeff as a matter of course) So then I think alternator. Have you checked it out? (mind you, I have no idea how to test an alternator other than "does it generate electricity?") Other than that, we're down to the typical Ford help desk response: "check your grounds", which could actually be decent advice here. Or it's a bad connector somewhere. If it's intermittent, I'm betting on a bad connector. Ask me how I know... I know you will figure this out!
Just my 2 cents... I'd swap out the battery, but Jeff already said that may not be it. (I defer to Jeff as a matter of course) So then I think alternator. Have you checked it out? (mind you, I have no idea how to test an alternator other than "does it generate electricity?") Other than that, we're down to the typical Ford help desk response: "check your grounds", which could actually be decent advice here. Or it's a bad connector somewhere. If it's intermittent, I'm betting on a bad connector. Ask me how I know... I know you will figure this out!
My battery tester also tests the charging system if the battery is in the car. Once the battery is tested, the tester prompts you to start the car and then turn on the headlights, high beams, fan wile revving the engine over 2500 rpm and looks at the voltage measured with and without loads to determine if the charging system is working properly. I had planned to test my theory this weekend by disconnecting the battery while the car is running to see if the EFI reboots, but I didn't get to that. Maybe next weekend. I'm also data logging my drives now, which could be helpful if the EFI isn't rebooting as I suspect. If it is, there won't be any data captured since you have to save the file before turning the car off and if it's rebooting, it's basically like cycling the ignition off and back on. When I get the car on the lift to do my next oil change, I'll clean and reinstall my engine and chassis grounds.
Another update on the mysterious stall issue. I've been so reluctant to touch the car for the past few months, but with 65 degree weather and time off from work, I finally put the car on the lift to do the end-of-season oil change. I put less than 1,000 miles on the car this year, which I hate, but having it stall randomly sort of makes one hesitant to get out on the road. While I had the car on the lift, I pulled the main engine ground strap and noticed that the metal surface wasn't nice and shiny anymore. I cleaned it up and reassembled it and after completing the oil change, I noticed that the oil pressure gauge issue I'd been having appeared to be fixed with the pressure reading steady at 60 PSI instead of jumping to 100 PSI and bouncing around. Could the erratic reading and the random stalls have been due to a weak ground? It makes sense, and I'll report back if the car stalls again, but I'm optimistic this is all that was causing my problems. I may add a second engine ground strap on the driver's side next time I have the car on the lift.
craig6990
02-22-2024, 04:48 PM
Papa, I really like this turn signal option!! I have looked high and low for the momentary switches but with no success! (Probably looking the wrong place) Could you steer me to a web site, vendor, or whomever I need to get these switches (Part # would be helpful if you have it)!!
Thank you so much!!
Craig
Papa, I really like this turn signal option!! I have looked high and low for the momentary switches but with no success! (Probably looking the wrong place) Could you steer me to a web site, vendor, or whomever I need to get these switches (Part # would be helpful if you have it)!!
Thank you so much!!
Craig
Here is where I got those button switches: https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/products/16mm-pair-arrow-symbols-push-button-switch-dome-top-small-power-windows-up-down-indicator
Dave
Mike.Bray
02-22-2024, 05:41 PM
Here is where I got those button switches: https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/products/16mm-pair-arrow-symbols-push-button-switch-dome-top-small-power-windows-up-down-indicator
Dave
I used some of their buttons, very nice quality.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20220801162441mediumrotated.jpg
craig6990
02-22-2024, 08:23 PM
Dave,
THANK YOU!! ordered!!
Justin
02-26-2024, 04:27 PM
The problem could be the ground. I personally would add a second ground strap. Wouldn't hurt anyways. In the past I've always had 2 straps and the neg battery cable was grounded to the chassis at the same place as one of the straps. Chassis grounds are always a concern.I learned a long time ago to minimize grounding terminals to the chassis. Makes it easier to find an issue if there is one. I hope this is the solution to your issue.
The problem could be the ground. I personally would add a second ground strap. Wouldn't hurt anyways. In the past I've always had 2 straps and the neg battery cable was grounded to the chassis at the same place as one of the straps. Chassis grounds are always a concern.I learned a long time ago to minimize grounding terminals to the chassis. Makes it easier to find an issue if there is one. I hope this is the solution to your issue.
I've driven the car a couple of times since reworking the engine ground and it has run great both times. I will continue to venture out longer as weather and time allow.
I've spent hours reading through your build and have pages of notes based on your experience and journey. I'm waiting for delivery of my Mk IV next month so have had lots of time to read up and prepare. Thank you so much for all the documentation, I'm sure it's been a huge help and source of knowledge for so many!
I've spent hours reading through your build and have pages of notes based on your experience and journey. I'm waiting for delivery of my Mk IV next month so have had lots of time to read up and prepare. Thank you so much for all the documentation, I'm sure it's been a huge help and source of knowledge for so many!
Thank you, and welcome to this amazing community!
Dave
We're still settling in after our move but I took the car and my brother-in-law to a local car show yesterday and received the People's Choice award!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199551&d=1716148369
UKSNAKE
02-22-2025, 09:06 AM
Im going up to MA next week to hopefully pull the trigger on a Mk5 to build with my son. Sometimes this looks a bit scary with some of the wiring and electronics, but my son did audio engineering so hoping he will sort that bit out. This thread looks like a step by step build so will follow closely. Thank you !
Cobra Depo
04-24-2025, 10:15 PM
Papa
Thanks for the incredible post, details and motivation. I will be ordering a kit in the next 2 weeks and will frequent this build thread.
I am curious on your diy powder coating, what system do you have and do you use a separate oven or toaster over etc….
Also curious to where Jeff the painter is located (might have missed it, but looking for a recommendation in Birmingham, AL area)
Dennis
Papa
Thanks for the incredible post, details and motivation. I will be ordering a kit in the next 2 weeks and will frequent this build thread.
I am curious on your diy powder coating, what system do you have and do you use a separate oven or toaster over etc….
Also curious to where Jeff the painter is located (might have missed it, but looking for a recommendation in Birmingham, AL area)
Dennis
Dennis,
Thanks for the kind words. The powder coating setup I have is from Eastwood. It included an oven and dual voltage gun. I've used it for lots of things, and it was definitely worth the money. Jeff K. is located in Bloomington, Indiana. I shipped my car to him from Colorado, and will likely be getting back on his list for my new Coupe build.
Dave