Papa's MKIV Roadster Build - #9115 (Post Grad) - One million + views!!!

[Jay-rod427]

I would definitely not be concerned with the sludge on the drain plug. As someone said if you start seeing glitter then worry. Cutting open the filter would be a waste of time. That magnetic drain plug tells you everything you need to know.

[Railroad]

A lot of guys on some hot rod sites discuss this option,

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=tjnzf455n31o0j55w14s4q55&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2FBstone%2F%28S%28tjnzf455n31o0j55w14s4q5 5%29%29%2F

[Fixit]

Now I just need to buy something to cut it open with.

They sell oil filter "can openers"... or some careful work with gloves & tin snips over a drain pan works. Punch a hole in the bottom and drain it 1st.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Now I just need to buy something to cut it open with.

You have an electric can opener in the kitchen, right? That’s what I do. In the interest of marital harmony I recommend that you wait until your wife is gone, same as I do when I have brake parts that need to go in the dishwasher and powder coated pieces that have to bake in the oven.

Jeff

[Papa]

You have an electric can opener in the kitchen, right? That’s what I do. In the interest of marital harmony I recommend that you wait until your wife is gone, same as I do when I have brake parts that need to go in the dishwasher and powder coated pieces that have to bake in the oven.

Jeff

My marriage is safe. We don't have an electric can opener and I have a parts washer and oven in the shop.

[Pat427]

Dave,


I installed the Breeze lower radiator tube bracket earlier in the build. It works great and was fairly easy to install. I think you'll be happy with it.

[Papa]

Dave,


I installed the Breeze lower radiator tube bracket earlier in the build. It works great and was fairly easy to install. I think you'll be happy with it.

Thanks, Pat. Seems like a good idea to try to stabilize the lower tube.

Dave

[Papa]

My new looms and ball joint dust boots arrived during the week, and I tacked both tasks today. On the looms, I ended up just using one of the brackets from the new ones and I'll save the new ones for later. I did identify one issue as I disassembled the ones on the car. Because of the specific mounting locations for the brackets, one bracket on each side was only attached with a single bolt. I drilled and countersank a couple of additional holes in the bottom half of the looms so I could get two bolts on each bracket.

The ball joint boot replacement went way easier than I expected. Each side only took about 30 minutes to do. The new boots are so much better!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136430&d=1602892574

I still have a lot of cleaning to do after my off-road adventure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjV_nQQKRaE).

[Papa]

The lower radiator hose/tube bracket I ordered from Breeze arrived yesterday, so that was my project of the day. First, the clamp comes in raw stainless steel and I decided to powder coat it black to blend with the chassis.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136460&d=1602970239

Next, mark, punch, drill, and tap two holes for 1/4-20 screws.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136459&d=1602970232

Finally, install the clamp. I added a bit of blue thread locker just to be sure the screws stay put. It fits perfectly!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136461&d=1602970245

After getting it in place and doing some more cleaning, I drove the car for about 40 miles with no coolant drips or grease escaping the new dust boots on the upper ball joints. I did notice today that the front of the car has settled a bit and my jacks no longer fit under the 4" frame tubes at the front of the car. Another simple task to get me back to my 4-1/2" ride height; they're never done!

[Papa]

The car has been on the road for just about a year now and I haven't had much to add to this build thread. Since the build was completed, it has received some recognition, however. My car was selected as the January 2021 Picture of the Month winner!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140794&d=1610899334

I was also featured on Factory Five's website last year: https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-dave-c-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140795&d=1610899465

It's humbling to have my car recognized by the community in these ways with so many awesome cars out there.

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, Papa! That's a real honor.

[D Stand]

That is awesome and deserved Papa!

[Papa]

I've decided to update my turn signals and have ordered a Russ Thompson turn signal setup. It looks like it should be pretty straight forward to retrofit my finished car with this, and I'll document the update here as I go. I've sent a steering wheel boss to Russ and should see something back from him in a week or so depending on how well USPS handles the packages. I also ordered a trim bezel ring from Mike Everson (already received it from Mike). I'll need to cut the padded FFR dash to get the RT tube through the dash and the trim ring will finish that off nicely. Both Russ and Mike are awesome to work with. My next dilemma is to figure out what to do about the two holes in my dash that currently house the momentary switches for the SDC unit. I'm thinking of just replacing them with a pair of turn signal indicator lights in the same size. I have the indicators in the gauge, but they can be hard to see. I'll also likely use the stalk button in the RT setup to control my Hi/Lo beams instead of the foot operated switch I have now. Like we always say, these cars are never really done!

[GoDadGo]

If you move to Louisiana you won't need to do the upgrade since:

Nobody Uses Turn Signals Down Here!

Depending on where you are driving you often see signals made with one finger, but That Finger Aint For Turning!

[Papa]

If you move to Louisiana you won't need to do the upgrade since:

Nobody Uses Turn Signals Down Here!

Depending on where you are driving you often see signals made with one finger, but That Finger Aint For Turning!

In Colorado, we use them to let the driver you just cut off know that you intended to do so by signaling after the fact.

[460.465USMC]

I'll also likely use the stalk button in the RT setup to control my Hi/Lo beams instead of the foot operated switch I have now.

Hi Dave. What made you decide to go with Hi/Lo beam on the RT Turn v. the foot switch? I have the RT Turn (not installed yet), and have been considering to go with foot switch for Hi/Lo.

[Nigel Allen]

G'day Papa,

Whilst I recently had my steering in pieces, for my EPAS upgrade, I filed a chamfer on the aluminium tabs that trip the cancel function of the Russ's indicator switch. It assists with a more gentle trip of the lever and probably reduces wear slightly as well. A little grease on the bushing and the trip mechanism / tabs keeps it all nice and smooth and quiet.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Papa]

Hi Dave. What made you decide to go with Hi/Lo beam on the RT Turn v. the foot switch? I have the RT Turn (not installed yet), and have been considering to go with foot switch for Hi/Lo.

A bit difficult to operate where I mounted mine is all. Figured since I was going to have the option, I might just use it.

[Papa]

G'day Papa,

Whilst I recently had my steering in pieces, for my EPAS upgrade, I filed a chamfer on the aluminium tabs that trip the cancel function of the Russ's indicator switch. It assists with a more gentle trip of the lever and probably reduces wear slightly as well. A little grease on the bushing and the trip mechanism / tabs keeps it all nice and smooth and quiet.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thanks for the tip. I'll look at that when I get the parts from Russ.

[RJD]

I'll need to cut the padded FFR dash to get the RT tube through the dash and the trim ring will finish that off nicely. Like we always say, these cars are never really done!

Once you open-up the hole in the the vinyl dash to accommodate the RT tube, you may find that due to the hole already there, one or more of the screws to secure the trim ring may not have anything to bite into. I ended up making a backing plate for the back of the dash, and then secured the trim ring with machine screws and nuts. In other words, the dash is sandwiched between the trim ring on the front and the backing plate on the back. Worked good.

143485

So true with these cars never being done - now with one month to go before the car goes to the painter, I decided to replace the vinyl dash entirely with a sheet metal one covered in leather. I'm harvesting the glovebox insert from the old vinyl dash though.

143486 143487

[Papa]

Once you open-up the hole in the the vinyl dash to accommodate the RT tube, you may find that due to the hole already there, one or more of the screws to secure the trim ring may not have anything to bite into. I ended up making a backing plate for the back of the dash, and then secured the trim ring with machine screws and nuts. In other words, the dash is sandwiched between the trim ring on the front and the backing plate on the back. Worked good.

143485

So true with these cars never being done - now with one month to go before the car goes to the painter, I decided to replace the vinyl dash entirely with a sheet metal one covered in leather. I'm harvesting the glovebox insert from the old vinyl dash though.

143486 143487

Another great tip! Thanks. I had already planned to use machine screws and nuts for the trim ring. and i can definitely see how there might not be anything to attach one one or more of the screws to depending on where they land.

[Papa]

I've gotten a couple of PMs asking why I'm doing this change. It seems quite a few builders are following my lead on both the SDC turn signal setup as well as my foot-operated hi/lo beam switch.

On the turn signals, the SDC unit works flawlessly and is a prefect alternative to the kit-provided toggle switch. When I was building my car, I wanted the Russ Thompson turn signal setup, but was worried about cutting up the FFR padded dash to get Russ' system through the dash. Well, I got over that. I continue to reach for a turn signal stalk when I drive the car and finally just decided to go ahead and do it. It would have been a lot easier before the car was finished, but not a terribly difficult retrofit.

On the foot-operated hi/lo switch, it's more about how/where I mounted it that is the real issue. It can be difficult to get at while driving. Since I seldom drive at night, I wasn't worried about it. Now that I'll have an unused momentary switch in the TS stalk, I'm "considering" using it for the hi/lo switch. I'm still undecided as I would have no easy way to remove the switch I currently have. Stay tuned...

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hey Dave!
RE: The end of stalk button; I've had at least one car through here that used it for the horn (I bumped it accidentally and scared myself!). You could still keep your dash button and just parallel it.

Jeff

[Al_C]

I had a 1974 Mercury Capri (when they still made them in Germany) that had the horn button on the end of the turn signal stalk. I hated it. On the roadster, I use the momentary switch on the stalk for my hi/lo beams. You should have the wiring instructions for that application in your RT instructions, should you decide to go that route. Just my opinion, but it works well for me!

[Nigel Allen]

The button on the stalk could be used as a high beam flasher.

[Papa]

I received my setup from Russ -- very nice quality! I can't wait to get a day to do the install. I also picked up a trim ring from Mike Everson and the Ididit Hi/Lo flasher relay. If I can easily get at the wiring for the headlights, I'll do that when I do the turn signals.

[Papa]

Today I was able to get the car into the shop and attack the Russ Thompson turn signal conversion. First step was getting the hub off and figuring out where the cuts needed to be made to enlarge the dash opening.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144740&d=1616198804

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144741&d=1616198810

To get the RT tube in place, I had to pull the inner shaft all the way out and feed the RT tube from the back side of the dash. Once in place, I drilled and tapped the mounting holes on the steering bracket. It comes with screws and nylocks, but where the holes needed to be would not allow the nuts to go on for two of the screws, so tapping them made it easy to install.

Next, I fed the wires through and installed the trim ring I got from Mike Everson.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144742&d=1616198817

I had previously installed two 16mm momentary switches with the SDC setup, and since I wasn't going to need those switches any more, I replaced them with 16mm turn signal indicators.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144743&d=1616198823

I then adjusted the shaft depth after re-tightening the hub bolt with a slight gap between the VW hub and the RT machined hub.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144744&d=1616198832

I had to re-install the flasher relay can that I had removed for the SDC setup, and everything works perfectly!

[Fman]

Looking good, that will be a nice upgrade. Nice to know people can do the RT after the dash has already been installed!

Are you doing IDIDIT relay too?

[Papa]

Looking good, that will be a nice upgrade. Nice to know people can do the RT after the dash has already been installed!

Are you doing IDIDIT relay too?

I bought the relay and will tackle that another day.

Dave

[Blitzboy54]

What do you plan to do with the turn signal buttons in the dash?

[Papa]

What do you plan to do with the turn signal buttons in the dash?

I sold them with the SDC module.

[nucjd19]

Papa. First, big thank you. When I committed to purchasing my complete kit I loved to pour over your build thread for ideas and tips. You have helped so much. Second, I have the same Boig coolant pipe as you but have the standard radiator cap. Do you remember where you picked up that awesome matching radiator cap? Thank you .

[Papa]

Papa. First, big thank you. When I committed to purchasing my complete kit I loved pour over your build thread for ideas and tips. You have helped so much. Second, I have the same Big coolant pipe as you but have the standard radiator cap. Do you remember where you picked up that awesome matching radiator cap? Thank you .

Thanks for the kind words. I always like to hear that my build thread had inspired and/or helped a fellow builder. I bought the radiator cap from Summit Racing.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-75125

Dave

[nucjd19]

Thanks for the kind words. I always like to hear that my build thread had inspired and/or helped a fellow builder. I bought the radiator cap from Summit Racing.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-75125

Dave

Huge Thank you Dave!

[Papa]

I had the car cleaned up and did a short walkaround video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8gedlNG5Q

[Blitzboy54]

I had the car cleaned up and did a short walkaround video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8gedlNG5Q

Looks fantastic. When was this taken, you still have snow?!?

[Papa]

Looks fantastic. When was this taken, you still have snow?!?

It was taken in late Februrary, but we're expecting snow over the next couple of days. It was 86 degrees a couple of days ago.

[NYMike]

Your car is incredible Dave. Reading through your whole build thread at the end of last year inspired us to pull the trigger on ours. I can only hope ours comes out half as nice as yours.

[BeePea]

Papa, how are you liking your tires? Still running the PS2 in 245x35x18 and 315x30x18? I'm about to pull the tire trigger myself.

[Papa]

Papa, how are you liking your tires? Still running the PS2 in 245x35x18 and 315x30x18? I'm about to pull the tire trigger myself.

I'm very happy with the PS2s, especially after driving with them in a torrential downpour yesterday. I'll definitely replace them with the same tire when the time comes.

Dave

[BadAsp427]

I'm very happy with the PS2s, especially after driving with them in a torrential downpour yesterday. I'll definitely replace them with the same tire when the time comes.

Dave

Will you??? They don't make them any longer... At least that's what I'm finding out. I love mine... and have many, MANY miles in the rain and on wet roads..

[Papa]

Will you??? They don't make them any longer... At least that's what I'm finding out. I love mine... and have many, MANY miles in the rain and on wet roads..

Well that's unfortunate. Do they have something new in the same sizes?

[Papa]

Just did a quick check and Discount Tire is still selling them. Can't say for how long, but still available today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149297&d=1623289467

[NYMike]

Big fan of Michelin tires on our other cars so this is exciting. There definitely was a time a month or two ago where I couldn’t find them either but maybe they are back from the grave. Tire rack seems to have them too but the fronts say special order so not sure what the lead time is there. Time to do some more searching.

[BadAsp427]

Just did a quick check and Discount Tire is still selling them. Can't say for how long, but still available today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149297&d=1623289467

I would only caution that if anyone orders them that they somehow find out the date code on them... or at least look at it as soon as received. I received "new" ones that were 8 years old the day I received them.

[BeePea]

I would only caution that if anyone orders them that they somehow find out the date code on them... or at least look at it as soon as received. I received "new" ones that were 8 years old the day I received them.

Interesting, I just ordered some, should get them next week.

[Papa]

My car has been on the road legally now for right at 18 months and after a 300 mile drive last weekend that included some torrential rain, I put the car on the lift to do a wipe-down and check. Other than needing a bit of cleaning, there are no leaks and everything is looking really good. I didn't see any movement of any witness marks on my torqued bolts anywhere. The new ball-joint boots are doing their job and no grease globs on my wheels. All fluid levels are right where they should be, but I do plan to flush and fill the cooling system with Dex-Cool at some point, probably this fall at the end of the driving season.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149493&d=1623633763

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149494&d=1623633763

I took this opportunity to coat the bottom ~8 inches of the foot box front panels on both sides of the car with a couple of thick coats of Herculiner. These areas were pretty much stripped of the spray-on bed liner I used on my aluminum panels. My splash guards got Herculiner and it is solid, so I ran a strip of masking tape at about 8" up on both sides and hit the aluminum. That should be the last I have to worry about that.

[460.465USMC]

The undercarriage looks immaculate. I think your good build quality is showing itself with no leaks, etc. Nice!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking great Dave!


The undercarriage looks immaculate. I think your good build quality is showing itself with no leaks, etc. Nice!

I've said before that I get to see these cars without their clothes on which reveals everything---some look pretty good until you strip them down (you can make your own analogy but I think you know what I mean ;) ). Papa's looks just as good naked as it does dressed up! Definitely in the top 3 out of all of them that I've done :cool:

Jeff

[Papa]

Looking great Dave!



I've said before that I get to see these cars without their clothes on which reveals everything---some look pretty good until you strip them down (you can make your own analogy but I think you know what I mean ;) ). Papa's looks just as good naked as it does dressed up! Definitely in the top 3 out of all of them that I've done :cool:

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. The clothes are looking pretty stylish still, too. :cool: I'm hoping to get the opportunity to do a show or two this year.

Dave

[sittonb]

Dave, mind if I ask a question. Prepping my order/wants/needs etc. and have read your build at least twice. Nicely done, and your engine and rear dif are exactly what I'm looking at, but you have convinced me to go larger rims. Anyway.... clutch - I noticed you went cable. Do you think the pedal is heavy in any way? Would you have changed it looking back? Also did you ever take it in and have the Sniper adjusted or did you get it handled yourself? Thanks

[Papa]

Dave, mind if I ask a question. Prepping my order/wants/needs etc. and have read your build at least twice. Nicely done, and your engine and rear dif are exactly what I'm looking at, but you have convinced me to go larger rims. Anyway.... clutch - I noticed you went cable. Do you think the pedal is heavy in any way? Would you have changed it looking back? Also did you ever take it in and have the Sniper adjusted or did you get it handled yourself? Thanks

Welcome to the forum and for giving me the honor of your first post! My clutch feels good to me, not light, not heavy. I know others have had a heavy clutch feel and quickly snapped a cable. I suspect something was a miss there. I didn't assemble my clutch, which came ready to go from BluePrint. I don't have any regrets with the cable clutch so far. On the Sniper, I never had it "professionally" tuned, but may still go down that road. There are guys that will do it remotely, but for the same cost, I can have it done on a chassis dyno here locally. The car runs pretty well, but isn't completely dialed in. The popping when I let of the throttle is back since the Sniper wants to relearn it's bad habits if you don't lock the learn parameters down. The good thing is, I have a good tune that I can get back to in 30 seconds. I just haven't tried to fiddle with it in quite a while since it really does drive well. I think I might be a little rich in some parts of the map and lean in others, but it's all easily corrected with the right knowledge. The car starts right up and idles cold or hot.

Dave

[sittonb]

Ah great, thanks... You noticed the first post huh? funny. Been lurking for awhile, reading threads etc. Probably won't pull the trigger until early next year. Looking at full kit, solid rear, blueprint 347 (still deciding Carb or sniper) as I live in the Pac NW and highest altitude is just about 4800 ft. Only part that gives me pause is the bodywork. Seems to be a couple good guys in California which is probably where it'll end up unless someone else points me in a different direction. Your build pics, explanations etc were really great, they cleared up a lot of questions I had after going over the manual. Combining your build posts and a few others I feel good about jumping in. Got me thinking about the clutch option now though. Anyway, thanks again.

[Papa]

I'm glad that my build thread helped you decide to build. It's a very rewarding experience to drive a car you built yourself. Good luck and don't hesitate to post questions in the forum. There are so many builders that are always eager to share their knowledge here.

Dave

[D Stand]

Where are you in the PAC NW?

[sittonb]

Newberg OR, just outside of Portland

[ggunter]

PAPA your car is an inspiration to all of us. Beautiful build. Where did you get your spats?

[Papa]

PAPA your car is an inspiration to all of us. Beautiful build. Where did you get your spats?

The spats are from Very Cool Parts, one of our supporting vendors. Nice parts made from thick aluminum and hand-formed on an English wheel. They aren't always available, and are done in batches. Contact them for more information on availability.

[Papa]

I made a small upgrade to my build today. I really like the new Factory Five Racing emblem and bought one along with a new center cap (thanks Jim1855 for offering one up while FFR is out of stock).

New:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153365&d=1631630398

Old:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144743&d=1616198823

Interestingly, the new center cap would not sit properly due to the air pressure as I pressed it in forcing the cap to push back out. Since I'd already stuck the emblem on, there was no place for the air to go. I ended up drilling a small hole through the side of the insert on the outside of the o-ring to vent the pressure as the cap is pressed into the hub and all is good.

[Jim1855]

Papa,
Looks great, glad I could help and it was a pleasure working with you.
That "faith" and "honor" stuff really does work.
Jim

[Papa]

The weather yesterday was perfect for a drive and a Cars & Coffee. My roadster was the only Cobra in the bunch, but not the only Shelby replica...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155091&d=1635715705

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155092&d=1635715705

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155093&d=1635715705

I had a lot of people around my car with lots of interest in FFR in the crowd.

One more nice picture:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155094&d=1635716098

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looks like a nice day Dave! I think it was just about exactly 2 years ago that it came home to you :)

Jeff

[Papa]

Looks like a nice day Dave! I think it was just about exactly 2 years ago that it came home to you :)

Jeff

Yep! Right ahead of a snow storm. We're expecting some rain/snow over night tonight, but it was perfect yesterday.

Dave

[460.465USMC]

Wow! What a beautiful day and beautiful cars, Dave. Sounds like a really fun day. I keep thinking you will bump into my nephew, as he doesn’t miss many car events. Thanks for the pictures.

[Papa]

Wow! What a beautiful day and beautiful cars, Dave. Sounds like a really fun day. I keep thinking you will bump into my nephew, as he doesn’t miss many car events. Thanks for the pictures.

Hey, Chris. I assume your nephew is stationed at Buckley? That was my last assignment before I got out of the Army. I'd love to meet him. If you want to give him my contact information, I'll PM you with my cell number and you can pass it along to him.

Dave

[Papa]

Another perfect day in Colorado today and my wife and I headed out with the Mile-Hi Cobra Club for a beautiful drive that ended up in Golden for some lunch before heading home for the day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUcLaRxwYk

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155765&d=1636333039

[Papa]

Another short video of today's drive:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHrVKurPujw

And lunch with the gang:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155764&d=1636332932

[GoDadGo]

I'm glad you were able to take your car out for a Mile High Cruise with your pals before the snow comes and turn Colorado into a Winter Wonder Land!
Since I'm a flatlander, I am definitely jealous of those insanely long mountain views.
Thanks for sharing your day with us.

[Papa]

After two years on the road and still not quite getting the EFI tune dialed in, I found a local performance shop that will tackle the task for me. Step one is to take the car in and let the tuner assess what I have in terms of parts. Step two will be to establish a plan to get me to my desired goals for the car. Step three will be the actual tuning.

I'm looking for drivability and consistency, but as a long-term goal, I'd love to go with one of these from Borla:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156310&d=1636908887

[WIS89]

Dave-

A big YES to the stacked injection. They just have that classic look in these cars, and make the engine bay look amazing.

I look forward to some pics as you get it all sorted. Your car is beautiful and deserves this upgrade! Good luck with it.

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Dave-

A big YES to the stacked injection. They just have that classic look in these cars, and make the engine bay look amazing.

I look forward to some pics as you get it all sorted. Your car is beautiful and deserves this upgrade! Good luck with it.

Regards,

Steve

Steve,

I definitely love the look, but it may be a bridge too far at this point in time. I'd just like to understand if there is a path to get there without major surgery on the engine.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

I had a car with Borla stacks here for body & paint last year. When it arrived it wouldn't run to get out of the trailer so the owner turned around and hauled it the few hundred miles back home. A month later he brought it back...again. This time it started and drove into the shop. I had the body ready to lift off and---it wouldn't run and had to be pushed around. After I got the body off for paint the owner made the several hour trek back to me...again..., picked up the non-running go cart and hauled it back home. When I was done he he had the go cart running and brought it back to me...again. I reassembled the car, he came back...again...and I held my breath and crossed my fingers when he started it up and drove it into the trailer. I'm pretty sure that with all of the back and forth trips to me the trailer still has more miles on it than the car does but it sure does look pretty when parked with the hood open! The ordeal he went through made some fouled spark plugs seem like a walk in the park ;) Be careful what you wish for and proceed with caution my friend!

Jeff

[Papa]

I had a car with Borla stacks here for body & paint last year. When it arrived it wouldn't run to get out of the trailer so the owner turned around and hauled it the few hundred miles back home. A month later he brought it back...again. This time it started and drove into the shop. I had the body ready to lift off and---it wouldn't run and had to be pushed around. After I got the body off for paint the owner made the several hour trek back to me...again..., picked up the non-running go cart and hauled it back home. When I was done he he had the go cart running and brought it back to me...again. I reassembled the car, he came back...again...and I held my breath and crossed my fingers when he started it up and drove it into the trailer. I'm pretty sure that with all of the back and forth trips to me the trailer still has more miles on it than the car does but it sure does look pretty when parked with the hood open! The ordeal he went through made some fouled spark plugs seem like a walk in the park ;) Be careful what you wish for and proceed with caution my friend!

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. I've heard similar stories and then hear that it's all about the proper setup and tuning. I have a neighbor with a Rousch 427 with stacks in a Backdraft that runs perfectly. Another option if the setup I have just doesn't want to cooperate is to go with a Holly Terminator. Another neighbor has two cars with that setup and he swears by that setup. We'll see what the guy I'm taking it to tomorrow recommends and go from there. It's going to be 74 degrees tomorrow here in the Denver area. Crazy that we haven't had any snow yet this late in the year. The temps are supposed to drop by 30-40 degrees later this week, though.

Dave

[Christopher]

Dave,

Just wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for not only building a beautiful car, but sharing and showing in detail with this build thread. You have put a great deal of time and effort into each of these. I receive my kit in April and with the help of your thread and a few others, I should be able to hit the ground running. BTW......we were once close neighbors apparently. I believe you use to live in Lodi, CA. I live in Linden, CA. Just few minutes from your old stomping grounds.

[Papa]

Dave,

Just wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for not only building a beautiful car, but sharing and showing in detail with this build thread. You have put a great deal of time and effort into each of these. I receive my kit in April and with the help of your thread and a few others, I should be able to hit the ground running. BTW......we were once close neighbors apparently. I believe you use to live in Lodi, CA. I live in Linden, CA. Just few minutes from your old stomping grounds.

Yep -- Stuck in Lodi until I joined the Army. I had family in Linden for a while, too.

Dave

[Papa]

After a week with the tuner, the recommendation is to replace the intake and Sniper with a Holley Multi-Port setup. Based on the availability of parts, it could be a few weeks (or more) before the swap is done. He described some of the limitations of the Sniper that would not allow him to get me 100% to what I was hoping to get. He could make it better, but not what he considered 100% right. When I asked about the stack injection, he said he's done a lot of them, but he felt that for my goals, the benefits would not really be worth the expense unless the main objective was the look.

[Geoff H]

I will be following this with interest. Do you know which Holley M-P set up you will go with?

Thanks,
Geoff

[Papa]

I will be following this with interest. Do you know which Holley M-P set up you will go with?

Thanks,
Geoff

Not yet -- I hope to hear something from the tuner on options next week.

Dave

[GoDadGo]

Hey Dave,

I really see why your geographic location puts you in a tuning pickle.
The temperature swings that go along with your area have got to make things very difficult.
Heck, the height elevation changes alone have got be tough on any OE system much less a custom setup.
I hope you find an acceptable solution before the weather makes it impossible to test and tune it.
Since I live in the Goldilox Zone, a simple carb works fine for me.

Good Luck With Your Quest & Have A Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

[Papa]

Hey Dave,

I really see why your geographic location puts you in a tuning pickle.
The temperature swings that go along with your area have got to make things very difficult.
Heck, the height elevation changes alone have got be tough on any OE system much less a custom setup.
I hope you find an acceptable solution before the weather makes it impossible to test and tune it.
Since I live in the Goldilox Zone, a simple carb works fine for me.

Good Luck With Your Quest & Have A Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

Yep, but it can be done. The Sniper has been okay, but not perfect. Like I said, it could be tuned to work better, but there are a few things that it would need to get it to 100% that it simply won't allow, so I'm looking at options. Last week, we went from a high of 70 to a high of 30 from one day to the next.

[Papa]

I'm still waiting to hear what the tuner has in mind for my car, but thought I'd share an interesting perspective with this group. When I spoke with the tuner after he'd evaluated my car, he asked If I had done the work on the car. I told him I had built the car and he was very complimentary of the finished product. He said he usually won't even work on Factory Five cars because most have been a real mess under the hood. He asked what my background was and was very surprised to hear that I had no real mechanical experience before taking on the build. I attributed my success to the wonderful support I received from this forum over the years. Thanks again to everyone that supported me and others in this journey! It's this community that really makes these cars special.

[Jeff Kleiner]

His compliments are well deserved Dave! As I’ve said before, I get to see these cars with their clothes off…some look good, others not so much ;) Yours is one of the good ones! You did a great job :cool:

Jeff

[Geoff H]

I'm still waiting to hear what the tuner has in mind for my car, but thought I'd share an interesting perspective with this group. When I spoke with the tuner after he'd evaluated my car, he asked If I had done the work on the car. I told him I had built the car and he was very complimentary of the finished product. He said he usually won't even work on Factory Five cars because most have been a real mess under the hood. He asked what my background was and was very surprised to hear that I had no real mechanical experience before taking on the build. I attributed my success to the wonderful support I received from this forum over the years. Thanks again to everyone that supported me and others in this journey! It's this community that really makes these cars special.


What a great compliment - after seeing your build thread I can see why!

[Papa]

The bleeding has begun! I started buying parts for the EFI upgrade and here is what I've ordered so far:

Pro-M Pump Hanger
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump (my existing pump started making a lot of noise and I figured I'd just replace it while I have everything apart)
Stainless steel tubing (3/8")
Ham-Let hard line to AN fittings from Breeze
Lodestar clamps
PTFE lined braided 6AN hose and various fittings for the tank-to-hardline and hardline-to engine

I'm still looking at options for the MPFI setup and will update as I get closer to a decision.

To help me figure out the number of fittings, I used a diagram that identifies all the sections and fitting types I will need:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158204&d=1638641971

[Papa]

After some back and forth with a very helpful guy on the Holley forums and some additional data logging, he thinks my issue may actually be the slip-on collector on my headers pulling air in and creating a false lean condition on the O2 sensor. So, I'm going to address that concern first. I have a set of FFR headers ordered (I wanted to try them anyway) and will see what happens after installing them. Jeff - I know there will need to be some cosmetic work done and I have a plan for that!

I'll keep you all posted.

[Papa]

My new headers arrived yesterday from Factory Five. When I saw the box, I was thinking that they must have sent the wrong parts! Another advantage to the new ball swivel design ... compact for shipping! I also got a set of Remflex gaskets. I'm off for the rest of the year after this Friday, so I hope to get them on the car before Christmas.

[John Ibele]

So ... you're going to give the Sniper another try with the new headers in place? I don't anticipate I'll have the same challenge you've had here in the relative flats of Minnesota, but I was tracking the Sniper discussion with interest since that's what's sitting on the top of my engine now. Regardless, good luck driving toward a fully satisfying solution!

[Papa]

So ... you're going to give the Sniper another try with the new headers in place? I don't anticipate I'll have the same challenge you've had here in the relative flats of Minnesota, but I was tracking the Sniper discussion with interest since that's what's sitting on the top of my engine now. Regardless, good luck driving toward a fully satisfying solution!
Yep. A review of the data log I provided the guy from the Holley forum seems to show false lean readings that he believes are from air getting pulled in around the slip joints on the headers. I should see an immediate difference with the new headers if this is the case. If I don't see any change, I'll continue to press on with a different EFI. The fact that the car was running pretty well and has gradually degraded in spite of me reloading my "good" tune is another clue that points to a potential leak as the headers continue to loosen at the slip joint and get worse over time.

[bobl]

I recently chased an issue with getting lean spikes on my Holley system. Long story short, it turned out to be a distributor problem causing intermittent trigger failures to the ecu. I have a DUI (Davis) tfi distributor. The hall effect pickup is made of plastic and slips over the shaft and held in place with a pin. The fit had gotten real sloppy and it was moving all over the place. I made up some shims and reassembled it using some epoxy to make sure it stayed secure and it works like a charm The car runs better than it ever has. So, be aware that misfires can show up as lean spikes. Which also leads me to another point that EFI is blamed for a lot of problems which are actually caused by some other component, or tuning itself. Like all computers: Garbage in = garbage out.

[BRRT]

Hey Dave,
What headers are you taking off? Are they visibly damaged?

Jeff

[Papa]

Hey Dave,
What headers are you taking off? Are they visibly damaged?

Jeff

They are from GP Headers. I'm not sure there is any issue with them at this point, but want to rule out the possibility of a leak at the slip connection of the collector.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85406&d=1525487679

[Papa]

Today I put the car up on the lift and removed the side pipes and headers. I installed the new FFR headers (uncoated). While I was at it, I swapped the spark plugs -- car has definitely been running rich, but that wasn't a surprise. While I was under the car, I saw more coolant (easy now that I swapped to DexCool. This time, the coolant was all over the fan and bottom of the shroud. I started looking for loose clamps - all tight, then looked in through the grill opening and found the issue. Both top mounting points on the radiator have failed with the driver's side forming a crack on the radiator.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158875&d=1639961715

I'm going to try to find a local repair shop or may try to epoxy it. Either way, repair or replacement, will get the Breeze top mount hinge or make my own. I'm trying to stay positive, but with all the issues hitting me at once, it is really hard to get excited about the car right now. On a more positive note, I really like the new headers and for the first time since the car was finished, my driver's side pipe is where is should be and not drooping. Now I just need to tweak the passenger side a bit by relocating the hanger a bit more inboard.

[cv2065]

I've got the same pump hanger. A real work of art!

[txboiler]

Papa I really like the detail in your build thread and the advice you give in other posts. I am working on the wiring now and was reviewing the following post. I have the BPE 347 with sniper and complete kit. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?39567-Holley-Sniper-EFI-Wiring-Spot-Check&highlight=fuel+pump+wire

In post 6, in the above link, you were giving guidance on how you connected the blue wire from the sniper to the + fuel pump, by depinning the RF wire at the rear harness connection. I am curious how you wired in your inertia switch and had that work (I noticed the inertia switch in photos on this build thread and assumed you had it connected). Post 9 in that same thread gives me the impression that the inertia switch will still work but the fuel pump with be work through both the RF and Sniper relay and the install instructions caution against that.

What am I missing? Thanks in advance

thanks.

[Papa]

Papa I really like the detail in your build thread and the advice you give in other posts. I am working on the wiring now and was reviewing the following post. I have the BPE 347 with sniper and complete kit. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?39567-Holley-Sniper-EFI-Wiring-Spot-Check&highlight=fuel+pump+wire

In post 6, in the above link, you were giving guidance on how you connected the blue wire from the sniper to the + fuel pump, by depinning the RF wire at the rear harness connection. I am curious how you wired in your inertia switch and had that work (I noticed the inertia switch in photos on this build thread and assumed you had it connected). Post 9 in that same thread gives me the impression that the inertia switch will still work but the fuel pump with be work through both the RF and Sniper relay and the install instructions caution against that.

What am I missing? Thanks in advance

thanks.

I'm glad you find my thread helpful. Great observation on the wiring. During my build, I had two different EFI setups on the car. The first was a FAST XFI Street setup. That setup was wired using the relay in the fuse block since the fuel pump control was a ground signal. I simply wired direct to the inertia switch to control the pump. When I swapped to the Sniper, it uses a +12v fuel pump signal from its own relay. By wiring direct to the positive side of the fuel pump, I'm bypassing the fuse block relay and the inertia switch. You need to rewire the inertia switch into the fuel pump circuit.

[txboiler]

I think I am following you; but let me make sure I have this correct. Using the +12v blue wire from the sniper I would wire the inertia switch in series. From the inertia switch I would de-pin RF wire going to the rear harness fuel pump and replace it with the blue wire coming from the inertia switch.

One question (assuming I have that correct) is I noticed the gage of the wire in the inertia switch is much smaller that the blue wire. Should I replace those wires as well?

Thanks again

[Papa]

I think I am following you; but let me make sure I have this correct. Using the +12v blue wire from the sniper I would wire the inertia switch in series. From the inertia switch I would de-pin RF wire going to the rear harness fuel pump and replace it with the blue wire coming from the inertia switch.

One question (assuming I have that correct) is I noticed the gage of the wire in the inertia switch is much smaller that the blue wire. Should I replace those wires as well?

Thanks again

I didn't wire the inertia switch in series with the + side, but others have. It's better to wire the inertia switch on the ground side of the circuit.

[txboiler]

Thanks.

[Papa]

Merry Christmas to my Factory Five family! A little update on where I am on the car. The new headers are on. I can't really say if they made any difference since I also changed the spark plugs during the install. The car is definitely better, but that could really be a result of new plugs. I can't get the car out and drive it until I repair/replace the radiator. I have some stuff coming from Breeze as well as a radiator from FFR on order. I should be getting my USB CAN BUS dongle from Holley today and I will work with the guy from the Holley forum once I can drive the car again. He'll be doing some remote tuning and then sending me out to drive the car and get data logs, but he's confident he can get it dialed in with a few rounds of this. If not, the MPFI option is still on the table.

For now ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b3hfepgZxg

[GTBradley]

Merry Christmas, Dave. Sorry to hear about the troubles. I have to say though, I do remember riding behind you and a bunch of other cobras and thinking, somebody is running way rich!

I would suggest getting the breeze lower mount too if you don’t already have it because that is what supports my radiator the most.

[Papa]

I do have the lower mount already. It's likely the only reason my radiator is still in the car. I have the top mount on the way and should have the new radiator in a couple of weeks. Thank goodness for the lift! It should make it easier to swap out the parts once everything gets here.

[GTBradley]

…It's likely the only reason my radiator is still in the car.
How hard you been driving that roadster?

https://youtu.be/_fQDnDKhcaM

[Papa]

Not anywhere near as hard as you! I did have this rather rough stretch though....


https://youtu.be/tjV_nQQKRaE

[GTBradley]

Washboard, ugh! I had a half hour of that recently. It shook open one of my hood latches.

[Papa]

I got my stuff from Breeze today and got confirmation that my radiator order is complete and just waiting to ship. I also got my cable from Holley, so I'll be ready to tackle the tuning as soon as I get the radiator done. I also have almost everything I need to redo the fuel pump and lines, but one thing at a time.

[Papa]

The new radiator shipped and will be here next week. Today, I did some tweaking on my side pipes with the help of some Breeze spacers. For the first time since my car has been on the road, both the driver and passenger side pipes are level and parallel with the body! With everything snugged up good and tight, I did a quick roll around the block and I'm pretty sure that the car is running far better than it ever has to date as far as the decel popping goes. I think the new headers were the right place to start. Now I just need to solve the coolant leak and get this thing tuned by a pro.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159346&d=1640742074

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159347&d=1640742074

The proper side pipe fit has exposed an issue resulting from the poor fit I had prior and Jeff's modification to the driver's side opening to accommodate the header to pipe flange. What I'm working on is a pair of stainless steel trim pieces that will fit over the opening and cover about 1-1/2" of the body around the opening. Once I have something worth showing, I'll be sure to post some pictures. I'm imagining something along these lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159348&d=1640742362

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159349&d=1640742544

[PN in KC]

Really blown away by this thread. I've ordered my kit and have to wait 8 months! But, using the time read and research every thing I can and this thread is inspiring and something I know I will return to once I actually get my hands on my kit. Thanks for the details, honesty and amazing quality of pictures. Good luck on the continued additions/tweaks/etc.!

[Papa]

Really blown away by this thread. I've ordered my kit and have to wait 8 months! But, using the time read and research every thing I can and this thread is inspiring and something I know I will return to once I actually get my hands on my kit. Thanks for the details, honesty and amazing quality of pictures. Good luck on the continued additions/tweaks/etc.!

You're most welcome and have fun with your build.

[GoDadGo]

Mark Reynolds makes some good stuff.
I had to use his spacers to correct my pipe angles too.
Like you Papa Dave, the O.C.D. Gene is strong over here on the Dark Side!

Well Done & Those Side Pipe Covers Look Great!

[Papa]

Mark Reynolds makes some good stuff.
I had to use his spacers to correct my pipe angles too.
Like you Papa Dave, the O.C.D. Gene is strong over here on the Dark Side!

Well Done & Those Side Pipe Covers Look Great!

The new FFR headers are awesome for getting things adjusted, but I still required 1/2" of spacers (not wedges) to get the passenger side to be right with my Gas-N pipes. There are so many variables with the body position on these cars that simply can't be accounted for with headers. Half an inch at the flange equated to over two inches at the end of the pipe.

[Papa]

Today was a very long and tiring day. I did the radiator replacement with the new Breeze radiator top mount. I already had the lower mount, shroud, and cowl piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159610&d=1641183140

First I had to get the old radiator out of the car. Not too bad a job with the lift. Once I had it out, I removed the fan and the shroud. At this point, the area of the leak was obvious.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159613&d=1641183140

I'll take it in to see if it can be repaired at a reasonable price. That way, I'll have a spare if I ever need one. Next was prepping the new radiator with the top hinge and using all the new hardware in the kit to mount the fan and shroud. Much better than what I'd used on the first installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159612&d=1641183140

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159614&d=1641183140

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159615&d=1641183154

Next was the worst part of the install. I had to remove the two small sections of the 3/4" tubing. I covered the car with old blankets to protect the paint from the sparks and used a cutoff tool and a grinder to remove the unwanted pieces. I then cleaned up the area and rattle canned some gloss black paint. This would have been so much easier without the body on the car. If anyone reading this is debating using the Breeze setup for the top mount, do it before the car is done!!!

Now it was time for the install. With my wife's help, we got the new radiator positioned and clamped in place at the top. I was then able to reset the lower mount. In addition to the new hardware, I installed the NOMEX honeycomb that I never installed during my build, but had sitting in a box still. Some satin black paint and in it went. I then re-drilled and riveted the lower radiator aluminum back in place. Last, I drilled and tapped the 3/4" tube for the top bolts. It was tight, but I had just enough room to get my small pneumatic drill in the opening at the front of the hood to drill the tubing and then tap from the top and the bottom. Three of the four bolts actually went in as they should. The last one didn't line up. I'll need to fix that with a longer bolt at some point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159601&d=1641169749

After reconnecting all the Boig tubes, I filled it with fresh coolant and started the car -- no leaks! Once the roads are clear and dry again, I'll do a road test. If everything checks out, I'll get in touch with the tuner and see if we can get this thing running like it should.

[Madfor67]

Did you get the ball-flanged headers from FFR, and still needed spacers?


The new FFR headers are awesome for getting things adjusted, but I still required 1/2" of spacers (not wedges) to get the passenger side to be right with my Gas-N pipes. There are so many variables with the body position on these cars that simply can't be accounted for with headers. Half an inch at the flange equated to over two inches at the end of the pipe.

[Papa]

Did you get the ball-flanged headers from FFR, and still needed spacers?

Yep -- on the passenger side the header flange was too far from the body. Remember, every car will have some variability and had the body not already been positioned, there may not have been a need for the spacers.

[PNWTim]

Dave -

I thought I would throw a little different perspective into the mix to really broomstick things for your decision making :cool:. Have not built a Cobra yet but it's in the works. I spend most of my time with my Camaro buddings on Camaros.net. Although I have no personal experience there are lots of guys in those forums who have tried out the different MPFI options out there. The big pros are ease of installation and ability to self tune. The big con is Holley/Edelbrock only provide real support until the next latest and greatest comes out. It may not be an issue for you but something to consider. I also thought I would throw this out there:

https://www.jiminglese.com/

Seems like a pretty well established option to originals or the Borla. I have no personal experience but when the time comes to order my kit I am going to give Jim's option a very hard look. Your build is top notch and I love the fact you continue to push forward with upgrades and modifications. Like you, my LS3 69 Camaro is finished but will never be done.

[Papa]

Dave -

I thought I would throw a little different perspective into the mix to really broomstick things for your decision making :cool:. Have not built a Cobra yet but it's in the works. I spend most of my time with my Camaro buddings on Camaros.net. Although I have no personal experience there are lots of guys in those forums who have tried out the different MPFI options out there. The big pros are ease of installation and ability to self tune. The big con is Holley/Edelbrock only provide real support until the next latest and greatest comes out. It may not be an issue for you but something to consider. I also thought I would throw this out there:

https://www.jiminglese.com/

Seems like a pretty well established option to originals or the Borla. I have no personal experience but when the time comes to order my kit I am going to give Jim's option a very hard look. Your build is top notch and I love the fact you continue to push forward with upgrades and modifications. Like you, my LS3 69 Camaro is finished but will never be done.

Oh I've definitely looked at the Inglese 8-stack. It's beautiful and would really look nice sitting on top of my engine. Maybe someday.

[CaptB]

Oh I've definitely looked at the Inglese 8-stack. It's beautiful and would really look nice sitting on top of my engine. Maybe someday.

What he said!

[460.465USMC]

Next was the worst part of the install. I had to remove the two small sections of the 3/4" tubing. I covered the car with old blankets to protect the paint from the sparks and used a cutoff tool and a grinder to remove the unwanted pieces. I then cleaned up the area and rattle canned some gloss black paint. This would have been so much easier without the body on the car. If anyone reading this is debating using the Breeze setup for the top mount, do it before the car is done!!!

I was nervous just reading through your 3/4" tube surgery with that beautiful paint job. Glad you got it done with no damage! You made me glad I went with the Breeze upper mount now v. the future. Thanks for sharing, Dave.

[Papa]

I had my first remote tuning session with the guy from the Holley forum today. Interestingly, he asked me to check the timing and when I went to loosen up the distributor bolt, it was already loose. It looked like we were at about 12 degrees initial, so we set it to 16. Once we did that, the car started to surge between 900 and 1140 rpm. Something it's never done to me before. I was having a heck of a time seeing the timing marks with all the accessory drive stuff in the way, so I can't even be certain of what I set it to. At this point, he asked me to do the following:

1. Get a fuel pressure gauge and install it on the outlet side of the Sniper

2. Change the PCV over to a fixed valve

3. Double check all my ignition components (spark plug wires, distributor rotor, etc.)

So, I have some things on the way and will follow up with him once I complete those steps. Also, since I was working in my garage and not going anywhere, I was wearing my comfy, fleece PJ pants. Well, they don't do well when they contact the hot side pipes. I spent about 30 minutes scraping melted polyester crust off the pipes with a razor blade. Once I get the nerve, I'll try to go back and verify the timing (wearing jeans).

[Papa]

Today I was able to install the fuel pressure gauge on the Sniper. Following my tuner's advice, I installed it on the outlet side of the Sniper and fired up the car. It was reading 0 PSI. I moved it to the inlet side and now the gauge is pegged at 100 PSI. So, it looks like my Sniper's pressure regulator is dead. I'm going to remove it (the internal part - and go with the Aeromotive external regulator based on advice from this thread:

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?45818-External-in-line-fuel-pressure-regulator

[WIS89]

Dave-

Sorry about the PJ's!! Glad it wasn't your skin you were peeling off the pipes!

I am really happy to see your progress on the EFI situation. Also happy to see your radiator results. I don't know if I could do all that grinding on a painted car -- huevos grande!!

Thanks for letting us come along on the upgrade. Frustrating and rewarding (hopefully!) at the same time.

I look forward to seeing everything working as you hope.

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Big news!!! I had a nice discussion with Jim Inglese today and I'll be getting one of his hand-built 8-stack EFI setups. It should look a lot like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160787&d=1642907373

In addition, I'll be getting a set of filters for the horns, a new Holley Terminator X ECU, and a new Holley Dual Sync distributor. It will be about six to eight weeks before the parts all arrive, so in the meantime, I'll continue tweaking the Sniper to see if i can at least make the car drivable.

[mburger]

Oh man am I jealous. If I had the extra coins, I’d be on the phone with Jim myself ordering a complete ready to run system.
Good for you! Love stacks!

[D Stand]

That’s going to look awesome! Too bad the sniper is not working out for you. I have the sniper on mine but it is not one the road yet.

[cv2065]

That's going to look tough Dave! Excited to see it installed!

[Higgybulin]

Mic drop!!! What a way to get keep this thread rolling along!!! That's going to look amazing!!

[CaptB]

Looking forward to seeing it installed!

[GoDadGo]

That's Super Cool Papa Dave!
.I guess these cars never are truly done.

[Papa]

Thanks, guys. I'm excited and a little nervous at the same time. Jim addressed all my concerns about drivability. He probably asked me more questions than I asked him; questions about my fuel pump, cam specs, headers, etc. From that, he offers either a standard or Webber style setup, preferred ECU, and ignition control setup that will all work together. He even ships the entire system, not just his products, so there isn't any question that you'll have the right parts.

[GoDadGo]

Dave,

I think you'll have a custom-tailored solution by the man who is truly a legend in this field.
It is going to be cooler than cool and I suspect work extremely well.

Steve

[Papa]

That’s going to look awesome! Too bad the sniper is not working out for you. I have the sniper on mine but it is not one the road yet.

It's not that the Sniper didn't work. The most recent issues are a combination of a failed pressure regulator and tuning. Both can be addressed and overcome fairly easily. I wouldn't blame the Sniper itself, other than the failed pressure regulator. There are many thousands of them working perfectly on cars all over the world. My motivation is more "want" than "need".

[Jeff Kleiner]

Here's one I did a couple of years ago...when you raise the hood you automatically win at the Cruise-In!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160795&d=1642958851

Jeff

160795

[nucjd19]

Oh dang Papa!!!!!!!! That will be beautiful!!!! Can't wait to see this next step with your rig.

[Fman]

YOLO! Send it... that is going to look amazing! Cant wait to see it all done. Sorry you had so many issues with the Sniper system, hope this one works out better for you.

[BRRT]

That is so sweet! That will look and drive so nice.
Hope this puts all your EFI issues to bed.

-------------
Jeff

[Papa]

I spoke with Jim Inglese again today and all my parts are ordered. The Holley parts get drop shipped directly from Holley. The other parts get assembled, tested, and shipped from Jim. He told me I got the last 302 intake he had on the shelf and it's going to be 60+ days before he gets any more in based on his suppliers. I bumped up from the short horns to his standard horns. He thought I might even be able to go with the next size up, but the measurements I was getting made that too close for comfort and I don't want anything rubbing when the hood is closed. He's thinking about five weeks (maybe less) for his parts to arrive and believes Holley is shipping the Terminator X ECUs (they were held up for a while due to parts shortages), the Dual Sync distributor, MSD 6415 CD box, and MSD Blaster Coil for EFI.

[bobl]

That is going to be awesome! Can't beat the look. I've got a 427 with the Borla system and Terminator X going on the dyno this week so I should have a lot of info on it. There are some really cool things you can do with that system. My winter project was adding the Holley digital dash. That takes the tuning capability to a whole other level!

Bob

[Papa]

That is going to be awesome! Can't beat the look. I've got a 427 with the Borla system and Terminator X going on the dyno this week so I should have a lot of info on it. There are some really cool things you can do with that system. My winter project was adding the Holley digital dash. That takes the tuning capability to a whole other level!

Bob

Thanks, Bob. I may pick your brain a bit once I get everything set up. I'm hopeful that the guy I've been working with (remote tuning) will get me dialed in.

Dave

[WIS89]

Dave-

I know you are excited to get this set up installed, and everything dialed in. But, I gotta tell you, I have been checking back every day to check on your progress myself! I am stoked to see how everything turns out for you; I suppose I am living vicariously through you! HA

I look forward to checking things out when she is all done and looking amazing. I also look forward to hearing all about how different the driving experience is. I know how the engine bay open experience will be!!

Thanks for letting us ride along in this process!

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

The first couple of parts for the upgrade arrived today! I received the Dual Sync and coil from Holley (Jim has the Holley parts drop shipped).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161683&d=1643860113

[KDubU]

Man I am so bloody jealous…awesome decision on your part.

[Mike.Bray]

Big news!!! I had a nice discussion with Jim Inglese today and I'll be getting one of his hand-built 8-stack EFI setups. It should look a lot like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160787&d=1642907373

In addition, I'll be getting a set of filters for the horns, a new Holley Terminator X ECU, and a new Holley Dual Sync distributor. It will be about six to eight weeks before the parts all arrive, so in the meantime, I'll continue tweaking the Sniper to see if i can at least make the car drivable.

I first met Jim in the early 80's when I had Webers on my 28 Sedan. He knows his stuff! And it's no different with stack EFI, you are in very good hands with Jim.

[svassh]

I first met Ji in the early 80's when I had Webers on my 28 Sedan. He knows his stuff! And it's no different with stack EFI, you are in very good hands with Jim.

I'll second Jim's praises super nice guy and always willing to share his knowledge. I reached out to him via email after I bought my MK II with the 4 Webers. Even though none of it was sold by him he was really helpful in helping me get them sorted out and running right. Even spoke to me over the phone several times.

[Papa]

Quick update:

I received the MSD CDI from Holley yesterday. Still expecting the Terminator X ECU and injector harness.

On the Sniper, I replaced the internal fuel pressure regulator, and it is now reading 60psi on the inlet as it should. I have not been able to get the car out due to the weather but expect this will likely make a huge difference in the drivability issues I've been having. Don't let my wife know that, though! ;)

[Papa]

The weather was halfway decent today, so I moved the car to the shop and installed the spinner retainers I got from Dave's Workshop (SJDave). These are very nice quality rings that slip in behind the center cap. There are three pointed set screws that hold the ring in the wheel, and three flat set screws that hold the cap firmly to keep it from spinning.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161935&d=1644184942

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161933&d=1644184942

This is a very elegant solution to the problem of the cap spinning when you try to remove the spinner.

[Caddy Dad]

That's a great solution to the spinning cap issue. I'd like to get a set for my roadster. Do you have any contact information for Dave's workshop that you can share?

Thanks!

[Papa]

That's a great solution to the spinning cap issue. I'd like to get a set for my roadster. Do you have any contact information for Dave's workshop that you can share?

Thanks!

Sjdave is a forum member and supporting vendor:


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?231-SJDave

[MB750]

Great thread Dave, thanks for keeping it going. Many of the questions I had along the way were eventually answered, but I'm left wondering, how much did your insurance end up costing you?

I live in Tampa and insurance is berserk for some reason, but that's not stopping me from building my Roadster. I'm just curious.

Thanks.

[Papa]

Great thread Dave, thanks for keeping it going. Many of the questions I had along the way were eventually answered, but I'm left wondering, how much did your insurance end up costing you?

I live in Tampa and insurance is berserk for some reason, but that's not stopping me from building my Roadster. I'm just curious.

Thanks.

There are so many variables that make it really meaningless to compare quotes with others. Age, coverage limits, insurance provider/underwriter, etc. I will just say that it's very reasonable and comparable to my other cars. I cary higher than required limits and have agreed value at $64,500. It's probably time to get another appraisal and make sure I'm properly covered.

Dave

[Papa]

I just received word from Jim Inglese that my stacks are expected to ship out early next week! Once I get that, the only item I'll be waiting on is the Holley Terminator X ECU, which is expected to ship around the 18th of March. Evidently Holley has had a shortage of electronics on hand to manufacture the ECUs.

[japollon]

Hey Papa.........this is Joel, a voice from the past! I am so interested in your experience with the Inglese setup. If it works for you, I will be predisposed to install on my 302. Right now I am running a straight 4 BBL with an externally mounted electric fuel pump. I did plumb in a return line when I built the car so at least that is there. What fuel pump are you using?

Hope all is well with you. Thanks, Joel (attached a picture of my car to jog your memory)

163000

[Papa]

Hey Papa.........this is Joel, a voice from the past! I am so interested in your experience with the Inglese setup. If it works for you, I will be predisposed to install on my 302. Right now I am running a straight 4 BBL with an externally mounted electric fuel pump. I did plumb in a return line when I built the car so at least that is there. What fuel pump are you using?

Hope all is well with you. Thanks, Joel (attached a picture of my car to jog your memory)

163000

Hey Joel! Great to hear from you. I have a Walbro 255lph in-tank pump in a Pro-M hanger ready to go in when I do this upgrade. I'm replacing pretty much the entire fuel system.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162817&d=1645311068

Dave

[chmhasy]

Dave, does Inglese make a 1:8 scale setup for your 1:8 scale roadster?

[Papa]

Dave, does Inglese make a 1:8 scale setup for your 1:8 scale roadster?

Nope -- I'm stuck with a carb and turkey pan for the 1:8 scale roadster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162896&d=1645413714

I guess technically the model is 53-3/8 c.i. (427/8).

[chmhasy]

I wounder if you could 3D print one

[Papa]

Jim shipped my stacks this week and I should have them on Tuesday of next week. The Holley Terminator ECU is expected to ship from Holley on the 18th. We're getting close to having all the parts, then the real fun begins. I'll be sure to post a picture of the stacks when they get here.

[WIS89]

I wounder if you could 3D print one


Man Dave, I think this would be pretty sick! A 3-D printed stack injection. WOW, very cool idea!!

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Look what UPS delivered today!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164042&d=1647475410

[Barwickad]

Awesome, can’t wait to see it installed. Jealous!

[Papa]

I'm just waiting for the ECU from Holley, which should ship out tomorrow according to PO tracking. Then the fun will begin. I'll be completely redoing the entire fuel system, so removing all the fuel lines (still planning on running hard lines for the main runs), filter (new serviceable Holley 10-micron filter) , pump (new Walbro 255 with Pro-M hanger), etc., including an inspection of the tank to see if there are any signs of contamination from the non-PTFE hoses that I saw on the Sniper's fuel pressure regulator. I also bought a Holley Y-cable to let me keep the Terminator X handheld installed while still connecting a laptop. This upgrade will also replace the distributor with a new Holley Dual Sync, which is preferred by Jim Inglese. The Dual Sync requires a CDI box, so that will be added along with a new coil. Everything Jim recommended is designed to work seamlessly together and is completely plug and play from a harness standpoint. The distributor wires, CDI wires, injector harness, and Terminator X harnesses are designed to work together, and Jim provides all the compatible sensors and injectors to work directly with the harnesses. Jim also configured the throttle linkage to work with my Lokar throttle cable. He can set up his systems for either cable or solid linkage systems as well as for automatic trans kickdown cable connections if needed. In the meantime, I'm reading through the setup instructions Jim sent and getting familiar with the details.

Dave

[WIS89]

Very excited for you Dave!!

I look forward to seeing everything come together! Thanks for letting us come along for the ride...

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Some more pictures of Jim's assembly:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164146&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164145&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164143&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164149&d=1647619263

And some of the other things Jim's kits include:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164150&d=1647619263

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164152&d=1647619288

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164153&d=1647619288

[Papa]

One more:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164158&d=1647620011

[GTBradley]

Pretty!

[Papa]

Pretty!

He makes a setup for the Coyote, too. :o

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164160&d=1647621686

[Jammer369]

That stack is a work of art!! I will be very interested to see how it behaves at low RPM just above idle when driving at low speeds around town.

[Papa]

That stack is a work of art!! I will be very interested to see how it behaves at low RPM just above idle when driving at low speeds around town.

Me too! Discussing this with Jim, he believes that most low RPM drivability issues with stacks are due to two fundamental causes. The first being fuel pressure being too high (usually with carb setups), or when the CAM is too aggressive. My CAM specs are right in the sweet spot according to Jim and the EFI fuel pressure is typically not an issue. Other areas that can cause issues are timing, which is one of the reasons Jim prefers the Holley Dual Sync distributor, which is a lock-out style with hall effect. That is the preferred setup for EFI stacks. We'll see how it goes. I do have a tuner standing by to help me get it dialed in.

[Chainsaw]

Some more pictures of Jim's assembly:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164146&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164145&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164143&d=1647619242

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164149&d=1647619263

And some of the other things Jim's kits include:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164150&d=1647619263

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164152&d=1647619288

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164153&d=1647619288

I am very jealous. That is sierra hotel.

[GTBradley]

He makes a setup for the Coyote, too. :o

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164160&d=1647621686
Great! Now I have to start all over convincing myself that I don’t want one.

[chmhasy]

Nice

[KDubU]

Awesome! That is a thing of beauty.

[GoDadGo]

Awesome! That is a thing of beauty.

Is It Induction Art or Induction Pornography, You Be The Judge!

........................I think it is Induction Art!

[BadAsp427]

Dave, That looks fantastic... WOW!!!

[Papa]

Today I began the process of removing the fuel tank to replace the pump and check for contamination and to replace all my fuel lines and filter. Getting the tank out wasn't too bad with the lift. I was able to lower the car to a rolling tool box until the tank was supported by it, then removed the strap bolts, the filler hose, sending unit plug, fuel pump plug, vent hose and fuel lines. Once everything was disconnected, I simply raised the car letting the tank stay on the tool box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164580&d=1648335651

As I suspected, there is a lot of contamination in the tank. My fuel pump, which started making a lot of noise in the last month was nearly completely clogged at the inlet with black crap that made it through the sock filter on the pump.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164576&d=1648335194

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164577&d=1648335194

Next, I looked in the tank and see a lot of crud floating around that needs to be cleaned up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164579&d=1648335194

While if figure out how to deal with the tank (tempted to buy a new one since they are so cheap), I mounted my new serviceable Holley fuel filter.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164581&d=1648335651

I'll run the new lines tomorrow if I can find some time to get back in the shop.

[BadAsp427]

Wow, that is amazing how much crud you have in the fuel pump. Makes me think that now, after 14,000 miles on mine I should pull my pump out and check it out. This new fuel and intake system is going to be awesome...

[Papa]

I spent more time on the car today and got my hard lines installed. I opted for NiCop because of how easy it is to work with. I actually bought a roll of 3/8" stainless tubing and after fighting with it to try to straighten it after unrolling it, I switched to NiCop. After cutting and bending, I attached the tubing using clamps from Lodestone; very nice fit and finish! I did have to drill out all the rivets that were holding my cushion clamps, so before installing any new stuff, I sanded and filled the holes with body filler and then primed and painted the areas of the frame that were repaired.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164627&d=1648425492

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164628&d=1648425492

[Papa]

Just a couple of updates for today. First, I went ahead and ordered a new sending unit and there is definitely a difference in the surface of the float on the new compared with the old.

New:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164867&d=1648839662

Old:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164592&d=1648340977

I still can't say that this is the source of the contamination, but I'll install the new one regardless.

Next, I started making and installing the flex lines with the new Aeromotive hose and fittings. These are very easy to work with. I taped the area where the cut needed to be done and used a cutoff tool to cut the hose. I then sprayed a shot of brake cleaner into the line and used compressed air to blow the line clean and dry it. Next, you slip the line side of the fitting onto the hose and use a pick tool to separate the braded material from the PTFE lining just enough the accept the olive barrel. I then used a tool for PTFE hose to press the olive barrel fully on the PTFE and hold it in place while pushing the hose-side fitting fully toward the end of the hose. The last step is to push the end of the fitting into the PTFE and thread the two halves together by hand before tightening the fitting with AN wrenches.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164868&d=1648839858

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164869&d=1648839858

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164870&d=1648839858

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164871&d=1648839858

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164872&d=1648839858

I expect my new tank to be delivered today and will start assembling it this weekend. I ordered the Breeze "Big Bore" vent, which I wish I'd done the first time around. My tank didn't seem to vent well before and I would have a lot of pressure build up that would get released when I opened the gas cap. I hope the new vent solves that, although I don't really know if that was an issue as it was.

[Papa]

The tank finally came and I couldn't wait to start assembling it. My wife loves it when I work on car stuff in my study. :rolleyes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164890&d=1648868619

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164891&d=1648868619

I should have the new Big Bore vent kit from Breeze on Tuesday. I also need to install the fill pipe and bend the flange flat, but then it'll be ready to put back in the car.

[WIS89]

... My wife loves it when I work on car stuff in my study. :rolleyes:...


Dave-

Just tell your wife that at least the gas tank was empty! I mean, it wouldn't be that big of a stretch to work on it inside with the smell of gas permeating the entire house. So, that's a win!!

I am also shocked at the amount of debris you found in your fuel system. I hope all the changes you have made eliminate the source of that nastiness!

Good luck with the rest of the installation. I can't wait to see that beautiful intake all buttoned up! Hurry up, man!! :cool:

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Dave-

Just tell your wife that at least the gas tank was empty! I mean, it wouldn't be that big of a stretch to work on it inside with the smell of gas permeating the entire house. So, that's a win!!

I am also shocked at the amount of debris you found in your fuel system. I hope all the changes you have made eliminate the source of that nastiness!

Good luck with the rest of the installation. I can't wait to see that beautiful intake all buttoned up! Hurry up, man!! :cool:

Regards,

Steve

I'm trying! I still haven't received the ECU from Holley. With the rest of the fuel system cleaned up, I may put it back together and use the Sniper until I get the Terminator and can do the real upgrade. My tank vent from Breeze came early, so the tank assembly is complete. I'm just waiting for some insulator material to show up today from Amazon that I want to use to quiet the tank down a bit -- keep it from squeaking and dampening the vibrations of the pump (not necessary, but something I want to do).

Dave

[Papa]

The tank is completely ready to go back in the car. I got the last items too late today to get it done but should be able to get it done after work one night this coming week.

[460.465USMC]

I then used a tool for PTFE hose to press the olive barrel fully on the PTFE and hold it in place while pushing the hose-side fitting fully toward the end of the hose.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164870&d=1648839858



Of course there's a tool for that! Looks very handy! Wish I would have though to look for one before I installed my braided connections. Thanks for passing along!

[Papa]

The tank is in and everything is connected back up to the Sniper for now. Now to get some fresh gas in the tank and see how she runs and check for any leaks.

[Papa]

Jim just updated me on the new expected ECU ship date from Holley of April 22nd. They are having a hard time getting the necessary chips to produce the ECUs.

[Papa]

Put some clean gas in the car and she fired right up and runs great. Amazing what I was missing as the performance gradually deteriorated over time. I did dump gas all over at the gas station when I filled up. Looks like I didn't get a good seal on the fill tube and it leaked. Easy fix, but had to tell the attendant I made a mess.

[Geoff H]

Great news (not the gas part)! Good you know you are starting with a system working as it should before you install the stacks!

[Springsyeti]

Working my way through your great build thread and I am just South of you in NE Colorado Springs. Our kit is being delivered this Sunday. Thank you Easter Bunny! I keep finding a new upgrade or tool with every build thread I read. Thank you for sharing and you are welcome to come watch a newbie bust some knuckles in a garage if you want to head a little south for a drive.

[Papa]

Working my way through your great build thread and I am just South of you in NE Colorado Springs. Our kit is being delivered this Sunday. Thank you Easter Bunny! I keep finding a new upgrade or tool with every build thread I read. Thank you for sharing and you are welcome to come watch a newbie bust some knuckles in a garage if you want to head a little south for a drive.

I replied to your other post as well but give me a shout if you ever want to come up and chat. I'll also put a plug in for the Mile-Hi Cobra Club. If you haven't considered joining, it's a great way to meet other local Cobra owners and we do a lot of drives during the warmer months.

Dave

[Papa]

Still waiting on the Terminator X ECU to ship from Holley. :mad: Today, I replaced the leaky rear caliper with a new one. I didn't want to wait for Wilwood to repair it, so I just got a new one and will try to sell the original as a "needs to be repaird" item at a good price. Got the new one on and bled the rears and all is good.

[Papa]

@LateApex created a thread in the Coupe build thread area (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42700-TerminatorX-with-SBF) looking for some assistance with Terminator X settings. After a discussion in that thread, I started to wonder about other ECU options I could look into that might work. The specific kit that Jim ordered for me directly with Holley is the Terminator X kit # 550-937. Holley also sells a 550-937F, which is a Fox body Mustang-specific kit. This had me digging into the actual differences in the 550-937 and 550-937F. What i found was that there were some significant differences in the kits, specifically the main harness and the ignition harness. While comparing those two kits, I saw another "universal" kit that Holley offers that was actually in stock through several sources. This kit is 550-936. When comparing this kit with what Jim ordered, there is only one part difference. That is the included injector harness. Both the 550-936 and 550-937 kits include harnesses for EV1 injectors, but Jim uses EV6 injectors in his stacks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165924&d=1650937417

The good news is that the injector harness included with either of these two kits is not what is required for Jim's setup, and he provides the proper injector harness (558-212 - Ford EV6 injector) with all the other parts. So, long story short, I was able to order the 550-936 kit from Summit Racing today and it has already shipped! I expect to have it in hand by Thursday. I hope to start the upgrade this weekend if all goes well!!!

[D Stand]

Can’t wait to see it done!

[Papa]

The Terminator X arrived today!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166017&d=1651184187

[Higgybulin]

Ooooooo booooooy! Here we go

[cgundermann]

Great! Now I have to start all over convincing myself that I don’t want one.

I know right - my Gen 3 comes in days!

Absolutely gorgeous Papa!!!

Chris

[Papa]

Step one: Harness modifications

I need to change a couple of the connectors on the Holley main harness to put the proper plugs on that mate with the sensors on the stacks. Specifically, the IAC and MAP sensor plugs. Jim also points out the TPS sensor, but the harness I received has the correct connector and pinout already. Thankfully, the harness wire diagram is very detailed, and Jim's instructions identify what the pinout for each plug needs to be and he provides the connectors. His instructions are kind of a mess with stuff covering a couple of different designs of his stacks all jumbled together, so it takes a bit of deciphering to figure out which parts apply to the specific configuration. This will definitely be a "take my time" sort of project. I may rewrite his instructions to be cleaner and offer the revised document to him for future customers with the same setup. It will be good to have a clean document of the system for my own records.

[Papa]

I tinkered a bit with the new harness this weekend. Everything was cruising along great until I got to the MAP sensor. It uses a connector that has Metri-Pack pins, which I've never worked with and don't have the proper tool to crimp the pins to the wire. I gave it a go with a standard crimper and then tried to fit the pins into the connector. This is where I stumbled, and I couldn't get the pins to seat fully. So, I ended up ordering a connector with a pig tail and will just splice the wires with the heat shrink solder butt connectors. So, since the car wasn't getting torn down, my wife and I took advantage of a beautiful Saturday afternoon and drove into town to get a shake at Sonic, which was pretty busy, and the car got a lot of attention with several people asking if they could take a picture.

[bobl]

Make sure you get the IAC wired correctly for the IAC provided. There are 2 configurations, but I'm guessing the instructions address that. If you get it wrong it will certainly make you scratch your head. I've had to rewire Holley harnesses a couple of times.

Bob

[Papa]

Make sure you get the IAC wired correctly for the IAC provided. There are 2 configurations, but I'm guessing the instructions address that. If you get it wrong it will certainly make you scratch your head. I've had to rewire Holley harnesses a couple of times.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. If the instructions provided are correct, that one should be good. It uses a square Weather-Pack connector, which I am confident working with. Each pin location in the plug was identified, and the instructions listed A as A-Hi, B as A-lo, C as B-Hi, and D as B-lo.

Dave

[Papa]

Okay, the harness mods are complete and I've procrastinated long enough. I plan to start the upgrade on the car this coming weekend.

[GoDadGo]

Okay, the harness mods are complete and I've procrastinated long enough. I plan to start the upgrade on the car this coming weekend.

We All Can't Wait To See The Completed Upgrade!
........This Is Going To Be Cooler Than Cool!

[BRRT]

We All Can't Wait To See The Completed Upgrade!
........This Is Going To Be Cooler Than Cool!

I can't agree more! A beautiful setup!

Jeff

[Papa]

Here is the wiring laid out on the floor:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166532&d=1652147937

Everything is pretty much plug and play now with all the proper connectors and the correct injector harness.

[460.465USMC]

Hope it goes well this weekend, Dave!

[Papa]

The upgrade is started. The car is in the shop on the lift. I'm waiting for it to cool down now and I'll drain the coolant and start removing the Sniper and other parts. It's going to be interesting to see how the harnesses lay out on the car and what I need to do to do have a clean install. I reached out to Holley and the ECU can be mounted in the engine bay as long as it won't get sprayed directly with water and the connectors are facing down. It's looking like a firewall mount will work best and the CDI on the passenger footbox.

[Papa]

A couple of teardown pictures:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166660&d=1652481879

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166661&d=1652481879

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166662&d=1652481879

Tomorrow, I'll get the heads cleaned up and ready for the new intake. I want to dry fit it before mounting it for good. I will chase the threads in the intake bolt holes as well.

[Papa]

Dry fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166690&d=1652543889

[Geoff H]

I bet that right there makes it all worthwhile. Looks fantastic!!

[Bob Cowan]

Two simple pieces of advice for 8 stack systems:

1. Choose the right cam; wide LSA, minimal overlap. Otherwise, it doesn't run well at low rpm's.

2. Use a synchrometer to get the balance exactly right. Without it, you'll never get it tuned correctly.

[BadAsp427]

Dave, that really looks fantastic.... I'm grinning ear to ear for you..

[Papa]

Well, things didn't go as well as I'd hoped today. I got the gaskets set with sealant around the water jackets and set the intake in place only to realize that a couple of the bolts couldn't be installed and I'd need to use studs. So everything came back off and got cleaned up and I ordered an ARP stud kit and another set of gaskets. I did get the power harness run and may mount the ECU and other electrical components tomorrow.

[Mike.Bray]

Dry fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166690&d=1652543889

That is so sexy. What's even better is how well it will run with EFI. And the amazing throttle response you have.

I want to see how you handle the crankcase ventilation. I've never found what I consider a good solution.

[BadAsp427]

Dave,
You most like could pick up that APR stud kit at your local O'reilly or Autozone...

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nice Dave:cool:

Jeff

[Papa]

Dave,
You most like could pick up that APR stud kit at your local O'reilly or Autozone...

I ordered from Amazon along with new gaskets and will have them in a couple of days.

[Papa]

Two simple pieces of advice for 8 stack systems:

1. Choose the right cam; wide LSA, minimal overlap. Otherwise, it doesn't run well at low rpm's.

2. Use a synchrometer to get the balance exactly right. Without it, you'll never get it tuned correctly.

Jim had me send my CAM specs before I even made the decision to go this route and I'm right in the sweet spot. He also sent a synchronization tool and the procedure for getting the stacks synchronized.

[Papa]

Two simple pieces of advice for 8 stack systems:

1. Choose the right cam; wide LSA, minimal overlap. Otherwise, it doesn't run well at low rpm's.

2. Use a synchrometer to get the balance exactly right. Without it, you'll never get it tuned correctly.

Bob,

Here are my CAM specs:

Roller, .543 Intake
.554 Exhaust & 218 Intake
226 Exhaust duration @ .050 - 112 degree lobe separation

What are your thoughts?

Dave

[Bob Cowan]

Bob,

Here are my CAM specs:

Roller, .543 Intake
.554 Exhaust & 218 Intake
226 Exhaust duration @ .050 - 112 degree lobe separation

What are your thoughts?

Dave

That should work pretty well. I'v used "bigger" cams, but the performance isn't really any better.

112* is about minimum for an IR intake system. 114* is better, but those are hard to come by.

[Papa]

I got the ECU mounted in its new home today. You can see the main power harness right next to the socket it will get connected to when it's time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166814&d=1652662949

I also made a new set of spark plug wires from a MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wire kit. I had a couple of boots that were burnt on my old set and this was a great opportunity to make a new set.

I also did a little more harness tweaking after reviewing the "loose wire" bundle and Input/Output wiring. The loose wire bundle has an additional power and ground as well as the fuel pump control wire and points trigger wire that I'll use as is. The fan control is wired into the Inputs/Outputs connector. This comes wired on the main harness, but has a connector mated that was fully terminated. There is a second connector that has all the inputs and outputs wired, but I only needed the fan control output, so I de-pinned that wire from the fully populated plug and added it to the one connected to the harness.

I've been fiddling with a mounting bracket for the coil, but think I'll end up mounting it near the CDI ignition box on top of the passenger foot box. More to come.

[bobl]

Looking good. Can't wait to hear you got it going.

[Yama-Bro]

Schawing! Looks amazing!

[Papa]

The ARP stud kit arrived today, and they are too long for the four center holes that I need studs on. I threaded them into the engine and set the intake on and the four center studs hit the throttle body and kept the intake from sitting all the way onto the heads. So, McMaster-Carr to the rescue. I ordered some setup studs with the proper threads that are 2-1/2" (3/8" shorter than the ARP studs). I wish I could have found them in 2-1/4" length, but these should work. I may have to set the intake on over the studs and thread on the nuts before fully lowering the intake, but that won't be a big deal. I can use studs or my old ARP 12-pt. manifold bolts in the other eight holes.

Here is a picture of the intake showing the two center bolt holes on the driver's side. The machined portion of the intake over the holes is what I have to work with. It gives me just over 1/2" of space to work with.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166988&d=1652928467

[Bob Cowan]

I made my own studs out of Grade 5 All-Thread. I think I ordered it from Mcmasters. Then I used a chrome washer and chrome acorn nut to make it look pretty. That area is a PITA to get in to.

The intake manifold only needs about 25 ft/lbs of torque. No need for fancy high strength fasteners.

[Papa]

I made my own studs out of Grade 5 All-Thread. I think I ordered it from Mcmasters. Then I used a chrome washer and chrome acorn nut to make it look pretty. That area is a PITA to get in to.

The intake manifold only needs about 25 ft/lbs of torque. No need for fancy high strength fasteners.

Thanks, Bob. I ordered both black oxide and stainless steel studs and some stainless steel 12-point nuts. I'll reuse my ARP bolts in the holes I can and studs in the four I can't.

https://www.mcmaster.com/90997A800

https://www.mcmaster.com/92997A338

[Papa]

Today I focused on the EFI harness and ignition component placement. I ended up mounting the CDI and coil on the passenger footbox.all the wiring is connected from the loose wire bundle, output harness, CDI, and coil with the exception of the battery power connections. I have the main harness tied up along the top 3/4 tube under the passenger fender. I used a Y cable from Holley to split the CAN connection allowing me to connect the handheld and a laptop. The laptop connector as well as the fuel pump relay and fuse are all easily accessed. I'll post pics once I have all the wires wrapped and tied up.

[Papa]

The big brown truck delivered my McMaster-Carr order early! I couldn't wait to see if the studs were going to work or not, and with a little effort to lift the intake just enough to slip the nuts in place on the studs, it looks like these will do the trick.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167105&d=1653180652

[Papa]

Here's a peak at the main harness laid in place (still nothing tied, wrapped, or attached).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167126&d=1653255310

The branch at the left is for the O2 sensor. The next one over is for the distributor. Laying in the valley is another large connector for the injector harness and then all the various sensors.

Here is another (messy) picture that shows where the CDI and coil get mounted. Again, lots of wrapping and cleaning up of all the wires still to do.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167127&d=1653255705

[BadAsp427]

Dave, this is all coming together and in your normal fashion, looks fantastic...

[Papa]

I took a little time today to finish prepping the various electrical connections for the new EFI. I installed the throttle cable and injector harness and reinstalled the water neck and a new thermostat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167454&d=1653935246

Next, I set up the new plug wires on the Dual Sync:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167455&d=1653935246

Finally, I decided to try to clean up the battery connections as there are now multiple wires running directly to the battery. I found a set of very nice terminals that accept two 4 gauge and two 8 gauge wires using insulated barrels that crimp the wire and hold it in the terminal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167456&d=1653935246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167457&d=1653935246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167458&d=1653935246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167459&d=1653935256

I still have one more set of wires to run, so I left my battery charger wires connected using ring terminals that they already had installed.

[Bob Cowan]

I could use battery terminals like that! Tell me more, please.

[Papa]

I could use battery terminals like that! Tell me more, please.

Bob,

There are several of these types of terminals out there. These are the specific ones I have:

Justech 1Pair 4/8 Gauge AWG Car... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DFJP27D?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I'll need to track down the inserts as I don't recall where I found those.

[Papa]

Looks like I got those on Amazon, too.

Baomain AWG 8/10.0mm² Wire Copper Crimp Connector Insulated Ferrule Pin Cord End Terminal Red E10-12 Pack of 100 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I7X480E/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_3WHT3PBXS3G6N3QKKG9A?_encoding= UTF8&psc=1

10 Pcs Wire Crimp Connector Cord End Terminal Insulated Ferrule Red E25-16 4AWG 25mm2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FLHW29H/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_4G5KPXG58MNBTDNY2S6G?_encoding= UTF8&psc=1

I also got some 8 gauge that were longer from another source on eBay.

[Papa]

Install update:

I have everything in place to finish up the install except for one special fitting that got damaged (don't ask) that I'm waiting on a replacement to arrive. Unfortunately, that fitting isn't expected to arrive until Monday of next week. Because of the location of the fitting, I want to wait until I have it installed before setting the manifold in place permanently. I'm hoping that next weekend will wrap this up and I'll have the car running again. I have a tuner identified that I can have dial it all in once I have it running.

[Papa]

I just got a text from USPS that my fitting will be delivered today! There is a real chance that I could have the car running this weekend. I'll post updates as I get them.

[Geoff H]

Very exciting - hope reassembly goes well!

[Papa]

Okay guys. The good news is that the intake is installed! Now for the rest of the story.

First, I had to grind down one of my wrenches to get the 12-point nuts tightened on the studs. Hindsight would have had me use standard hex nuts, but I already had the sealant on and didn't want to take it apart again and toss another set of gaskets in the trash.

Second, the CTS sensor wires are too short, but that's an easy fix.

Third, the distributor cap won't work with the 90 degree boots. I'm going to need to find straight boots to clear the fuel rails. I'm not seeing any easy solutions to this yet. If anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears.

I still need to connect the fuel lines, but want to get all the sensor connectors hooked up first.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167668&d=1654393481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167667&d=1654393481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167666&d=1654393481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167665&d=1654393481

[Mike.Bray]

the distributor cap won't work with the 90 degree boots. I'm going to need to find straight boots to clear the fuel rails. I'm not seeing any easy solutions to this yet. If anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears.

I used a Holley 565-201 Dual Sync distributor with Ford M-12259-M302 wires. It's tight but fits.

[Papa]

The issue is the fuel rails interfere with the wires coming off at a 90 degree angle. I'm going to try to change the boots to these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PKZWAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm also running the Holley Dual Sync distributor.

[Mike.Bray]

The issue is the fuel rails interfere with the wires coming off at a 90 degree angle. I'm going to try to change the boots to these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PKZWAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm also running the Holley Dual Sync distributor.

Mine fit but very close.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20220203130203mediumrotated.jpg

[Papa]

A bit more progress on the install today. All the electrical, sensor, water, and fuel connections are complete! I still need to figure out a clean way to connect the plug wires to the distributor. I've reached out to Jim Inglese to see if he has a recommendation. In the mean time, I'll wait for the 180 degree boots to arrive and may look at the wires Mike recommended. The boots look a lot smaller on those.

A few pictures with the new valve covers installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167699&d=1654456326

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167700&d=1654456326

[RJD]

Man, that's just a great look. I've got engine bay envy.

[Geoff H]

I agree - really clean installation. Great work!

[bobl]

Looks like even straight boots won't clear. I'm sure Inglese has run across that problem. FYI, Holley makes a low profile Dual Sync distributor that might be the answer.

[Papa]

Thanks for the tip, Bob. I took a look and the low profile version won't work with the intake because of the water neck. The regular distributor just barely clears it.

I think if I can get the thing to move enough to set the limits and then lock it down, I may be okay. I can do that without any wires attached and then "creatively" route the wires.

[Railroad]

Would something like this help?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114749648037

[Papa]

Would something like this help?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114749648037

I've looked at different caps, but don't see anything from Holley on using a different cap on the Dual Sync distributor.

[svassh]

Is the concern with plug wires that you can't rotate the distributor to set timing? I thought the dual synch was set to a high number BTDC like 50 degrees then the controller software program dropped the timing as needed/programmed. In which case you really just drop the distributor in the correct spot like 50 degrees BTDC and don't need to turn it again. At least that is how it works with my MSD 6AL2 programmable ignition box.

I'm running Weber IDFs and had to grind my intake manifold a bit for the distributor to even drop in far enough. Not the same setup as you but very tight fit.

[Papa]

Is the concern with plug wires that you can't rotate the distributor to set timing? I thought the dual synch was set to a high number BTDC like 50 degrees then the controller software program dropped the timing as needed/programmed. In which case you really just drop the distributor in the correct spot like 50 degrees BTDC and don't need to turn it again. At least that is how it works with my MSD 6AL2 programmable ignition box.

I'm running Weber IDFs and had to grind my intake manifold a bit for the distributor to even drop in far enough. Not the same setup as you but very tight fit.

You're correct. I will set the distributor without the cap on initially. Once set, the cap goes on and then the timing is verified with the computer compared to the balancer. If they differ, the distributor is rotated until the balancer matched the computer and that's it. My initial concern was that when I installed the cap, I couldn't rotate the distributor at all. After removing the retainer that holds the boots tight and repositioning a couple of the wires near the fuel rail, I think I'll be okay. I may not be able to use the retainer, but have other boots that I can use.

[Papa]

Another picture to share:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167698&d=1654456326

I'm very pleased that I decided to go with the polished valve covers.

[Chainsaw]

That is beautiful. I really wish I had the spare cash to go that route. I'll add that to the dreams list.

[bobl]

FYI, with the Holley ECU the engine will crank a couple of seconds before it starts. It seems to take a second or 2 to sync up and detect an RPM signal. Not a problem but something to be aware of. Can't wait to see it running.

[Papa]

FYI, with the Holley ECU the engine will crank a couple of seconds before it starts. It seems to take a second or 2 to sync up and detect an RPM signal. Not a problem but something to be aware of. Can't wait to see it running.

Thanks, Bob. My goal is to finish up and have it running this weekend. I have a punch list of things left to do:

1. Battery fully charged
2. Connect throttle cable (also installing a new Russ Thompson pedal that I ordered from Mark at Breeze)
3. Fill coolant
4. Set distributor limits
5. Upgrade Terminator ECU and handheld to V2 firmware
6. Configure initial tune via wizard
7. Verify all sensor settings in ECU per Jim's setup instructions
8. Make final coil connection
9. Start!!!