Roadracer's #997 build

[RoadRacer]

Jerry at Stewart Transport delivered my '33 stage 1 today!

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Looks great, apart from one small problem, can you spot it? Something isn't as it should be ;)

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Look at the very front of the chassis.. a little modification and flaking of powder coat. I'll let FFR & Stewart know about this on Monday. My wife and I did the inventory today, there's very little missing. A few bolts and a very short backorder list. In fact I have some extra parts in the cooling box that I haven't identified yet!

Of course I have a lot fewer boxes and parts having just stage 1. No body, interior etc.

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So, what are my plans? A pretty standard build to start with, get it on the road relatively quickly using donor mustang GT rear, donor 350 SBC and TKO600. I'm not planning much non-standard to start - this will be my DD as soon as I can get it done. Over time, I'll replace with blueprint 383 and upgrade whatever I find that needs doing. I added the 3 link option, so I'll be doing that from the beginning. Wanted IRS but couldn't swing that much extra $$.

Here's some renderings I've done of the final result, inspired by my old GTD40 with diamond white paint with light blue stripes. The stripes are hard to do well in the app I have, but you'll get the idea.

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Tomorrow the fun starts in earnest. Thank all for being here and so helpful.

[RoadRacer]

Now it's up on stands my first job is to fix the bent LCA bracket. Still pondering how best to do it.. any ideas?

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[erlihemi]

RR, the renderings look great! Those tires look massive. I was pondering boxing the bottom of that frame horn on my car at one point. Now I may go back and do it. I recommend using a rigid square tube clamped or tack welded to bend it back without creating another bend and getting a wavy result.

[RoadRacer]

Thanks erlihemi. I did exactly that but still got a wave. It doesn't want to bend that close to the weld. I've trial-installed the front suspension this morning to see how it all works.. went together very well so far.

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[RoadRacer]

Emptied some more boxes and assembled more parts while Stewart decides what to do with bent chassis. May have to ship back to FFR, but we'll see. Went to local junk yard and got '02 Mustang GT rear (3.27, 8.8, limited slip, 5 lug, solid rotor, 62.52" wide) and stripped it of all the unnecessary crap. Will wire brush and paint along with all the rest of the bare metal parts, but I think I'll trial install the rear and see how the 3-link all goes together first.

Once it's in (and I've confirmed the 3-link still suffers from this problem) I'll consider the fix documented over at http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/8164-3-link-missing-link.html (hat tip to myjones for pointing me at this). Or perhaps I'll try and find a competent welder to weld the banana bracket on..

Before and after stripping the 'extras':

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All the leftover parts

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[NAZ]

RR, that particular bend in the front bracket is pretty simple to straighten if you have some basic equipment. If you have access to an oxy/acetylene torch and a rose bud tip; PM me and I'll provide you with enough details that you can straighten it yourself even if you've never done this type of work before. It really is that easy. Of course you'll have to touch-up the powder coating and I can recommend a product for that as well.

[RoadRacer]

BTW, love the new rear LCA.. compare the version shown in the latest manual with what I got!

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[RoadRacer]

PM me and I'll provide you with enough details that you can straighten it yourself even if you've never done this type of work before.

Thanks NAZ, will do, once we all decide what course of action to take.

[RoadRacer]

Today was wire-brush-on-a-drill day. Many years of dirt and gunk to remove from the rear. Scrubbed, Soaked in Purple Power, scrubbed some more, then Eastwood Pre, 2K Primer and 2K Gloss Black. Turned out nicely though, used one can of primer and one can gloss on the rear and the two front UCA.

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[srobinsonx2]

Looking good. We will have to get together some time. Never seen a coupe up close. Maybe I can bring my roadster by before I start bodywork.

[RoadRacer]

Yeah would be great to see you. Free any evening and weekend.. just text me whenever you fancy coming by. Just remember I'm only stage 1, no body to see yet ;)

[RoadRacer]

Sanded, prepped, primered and glossed most of the rest of the parts I've got. The Eastwood 2K ran out with only the engine and gearbox mounts remaining - which is fine since I don't have an engine or gearbox ;)

I wish FFR would offer an option to powder coat all these pieces too! There's a lot of bare metal delivered.

At least assembly can start now..

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[GoDadGo]

Sanded, prepped, primered and glossed most of the rest of the parts I've got. The Eastwood 2K ran out with only the engine and gearbox mounts remaining - which is fine since I don't have an engine or gearbox ;)

I wish FFR would offer an option to powder coat all these pieces too! There's a lot of bare metal delivered.

At least assembly can start now..

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I like your chain hanger and wish I would have thought of it.

[RoadRacer]

A day of 'suggesting' that all the front suspension parts please kindly fit into their assigned locations. ;) I hesitate to say i've done 'final' fitment of all this, but I surely hope so. It will be a day of cusswords if I have to remove those shocks, knowing what it takes to get those .32" spacers in.

Although, the whole thing only took a couple hours. Finding and fitting all the grease nipples and caps and greasing it all up seemed to take just as long! I probably could have stayed an extra few minutes and added spindles and brakes (already assembled) but I'll start the day tomorrow with something easy..

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[wrp]

Good start.. I find the inspiration and commitment comes in spurts. I'll stare at something thinking I cannot do it for a while then I will just go ahead and do it. I guess that is part of the fun eh?

[RoadRacer]

Yeah and it's funny how we're all paying extra for the privilege according to another thread here ;)

Man, I love building cars though. ALMOST as much as driving them

[RoadRacer]

Added spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers and steering rack today. Finally removed the chassis panels that came installed. Moved the rear into position with wife's help, waiting on the brackets which were POL and are already on the way from FFR.

Everything went smoothly today, but the hub torque was interesting! My old snapon 3/8 drive torque wrench - 25 years old - only goes up to 100ft/lb. Never had to torque anything higher! But 235ft/lb is a lot higher, so I went and borrowed bigger torque wrench from autozone and had to buy a 1 3/8 wrench to do it up. I weigh 215, but damn it took some effort to get that click-click! I was doing chin ups on the wrench :)

Note sure about my placement of the metal steering rack bracket - the manual shows it the other way around, but that interferes with the cable tie, and since that didn't easily move I wondered if there was a groove there on the rack. So for now I just switched the bracket which will works. We'll see. It's at the end of the wide part, but it still tight.

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UPDATE: Later I went back and flipped this steering rack bracket back to as per manual, and moved the boot over a smidge.

[Mick Scarborough]

I didnt see a mention in the thread of how FFR addressed the bent chassis piece.

[RoadRacer]

I didnt see a mention in the thread of how FFR addressed the bent chassis piece.

Ah, sorry. FFR were amazing and offered a replacement chassis if I wanted one, even though it happened during shipping.

In the end Stewart and I agreed on some cash compensation. I'm happy with that.

[RoadRacer]

Finished torquing up the front suspension, here showing the extra spacers I had to add to top balljoint on both sides

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I had a similar problem at the rear, on drivers side, lower shock mount. Only on that side, there was way too much gap remaining after the spacers were in, so I added two washers there too. The other side is different design and worked with just spacers

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At this point I have to say that a homemade spreader "tool" is super useful - I've used it many times already on front/rear suspension. I have a 3ft 1/2" threaded bar, nuts and thick 2" washers that I've used to open up most of the attachment points. Some are WAY too small, the worst so far being the chassis mounting of rear LCA - over an 1/8" too small. I open it up maybe a 1/8" bigger than needed and it springs back 1/16", then I snug up with bolts.

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Fitting the rear on my own was interesting - when it falls off the jack (and it will) I made sure to have a backup underneath it. It's a big heavy mofo, but it's in there now, and tomorrow it'll be on to the 3 link.

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[JOP33]

At this point I have to say that a homemade spreader "tool" is super useful - I've used it many times already on front/rear suspension. I have a 3ft 1/2" threaded bar, nuts and thick 2" washers that I've used to open up most of the attachment points. Some are WAY too small, the worst so far being the chassis mounting of rear LCA - over an 1/8" too small. I open it up maybe a 1/8" bigger than needed and it springs back 1/16", then I snug up with bolts.



Love the idea for the "homemade spreader bar". I had the same issue with most of the attachment points. Must really pull in during the welding process.

[erlihemi]

It will be a roller soon! Nice spreader bar.

[RoadRacer]

It will be a roller soon! Nice spreader bar.

haha, yes! I have no wheels yet, so I'm going to make some MDF circles the right circumference as the planned tires and bolt them on.

[RoadRacer]

Installed the 3 link & panhard today. Lots of farting around with the bolt-on 3-link bracket - the front and back bolt holes were nowhere close to aligning, so I used the drill press to redrill in a straight line. You can see the original misalignment at top left in pic below. I split the difference and drilled all four holes out straighter.

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That, and the customary 'spreading' and I got it all together. The panhard support was awfully close to the bolt head at front of the LCA though. I had to persuade it to get in.

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Good time to call it quits for the day..

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[bakerboerne]

I am going to order stage 2 today since sale started yesterday. Been thinking about going up to pick it up myself. If there is any other Texas stage 2 needing pick up, I could
get a bigger trailer ?

[TDSapp]

So what sale would that be? I have not gotten anything about it or see anything on their web site.


Tim

[RoadRacer]

I am going to order stage 2 today since sale started yesterday. Been thinking about going up to pick it up myself. If there is any other Texas stage 2 needing pick up, I could
get a bigger trailer ?

It's just SO FAR! I thought about it, but it would be 4-6 days of driving - so a week off work - plus rental, plus gas and hotels.. not cheap! Stewart was super easy :)

But to answer your question, I'm not ready or able for stage 2 yet. Thanks though.

[RoadRacer]

So what sale would that be? I have not gotten anything about it or see anything on their web site.


Tim

Signup for their emails Tim, they announced a 50/50 for 5 sale (or $1000 off options I believe)

[RoadRacer]

I have to post because I'm going stir crazy.. had my high-maintenance relatives here for 3 weeks and haven't been able to even look in the garage. They leave Tuesday. Man, I'm jonesing for some car time! Feel like I'm falling behind the rest of the 99x-100x club ;)

[Tampa33Build]

Thanks for the sale tip.
I was going to place my order on June 5th when I toured the factory. I will be placing it tonight, to ensure I get the 40% off options deal.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/like-scott-huge-summer-sale/

[RoadRacer]

Got back in the garage today and made some good progress.

First, drilled the banana bracket brace hole, and bolted it up.. kinda. Turns out the supplied bolt is a little short so I'll have to get a longer one. I have ordered VPM's banana top brace too so I'll install that when it comes next week.

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Then I dropped two center marks at front and rear of cockpit square.. I'll use my laser to move that onto front/rear subframes later. I already used the center mark when measuring the firewall.

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Next was pedal box.. got that all assembled (using the clutch cable setup) and installed to chassis. Yes I had to definitely grind the cast line off the pedal to get the clutch cable thingy to fit!

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Lastly I trial fitted the firewall and lower panels a few times to get them all lined up and centered. Marked the holes and waiting on #11 bits to arrive. I'd only ordered #30 and 1/8 clecos.. forgot the #11 and 3/16..

Oh and somewhere in there made a fun embarrassing post about the steering flange ;) Duh

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24692-Firewall-fitting-and-modifying-flange-bearing&p=281980#post281980

[RoadRacer]

When installing the pedals I had to retap two out of the eight holes. Felt like it was cross-threaded going in so I didn't want to take the chance. A quick tap and they went in smoothly and tightened nicely. Used red locktite.

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[RoadRacer]

Drilled and cleco'd the firewall - done with 1/8 until the 3/16 come in the mail.

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[RoadRacer]

Had a few hours yesterday to fit the brake reservoir and plumb it in. Since there are no instructions about *where* to put it (exactly) I browsed the threads and hopefully put it in a place that won't cause issues. Far enough away from clutch cable, low enough(?) to not hit body - but without a body to look at that's hard to be sure of!

I didn't want/need it inside the car so had to run off to Harbor Freight for a grommet kit.. was a little surprised a grommet for the firewall wasn't included though. Or perhaps it is, but I must have missed it on the inventory.

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Got the lovely http://vpmcobras.com/ banana brace kit installed. So happy with this, it fit like a dream and now finally I don't have to worry about this banana bracket.

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Lastly, attached the steering flange, and now the next task is the brake lines that I've been naively looking forward to. :) I'm going to start by trying to use what was supplied but all this talk of eastwood flare tools and NiCopp brake line makes it appear that almost no-one uses the supplied parts.

I'm taking that as a challenge!

[RoadRacer]

P.S. seems the rule is to tap everything! This seems obvious given the powder or paint coating, but I'm glad I'd bought a tap/die set to run through everything. The bolts in the pedal box acted like they were bottoming out in the hole.. quick tap and they went in beautifully.

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[DaveS53]

Had a few hours yesterday to fit the brake reservoir and plumb it in. Since there are no instructions about *where* to put it (exactly) I browsed the threads and hopefully put it in a place that won't cause issues. Far enough away from clutch cable, low enough(?) to not hit body - but without a body to look at that's hard to be sure of!


Your brake fluid reservoir will not function properly. The bottom of the reservoir should be as high as the hose to the MCs. Also, is the hose intended for use with brake fluid? Others have found out that fuel hose or air hose will disintegrate when exposed to brake fluid.

[RoadRacer]

The hose came with the brake master cylinders and is positioned like most people's reservoir that I found.. and the manual. any higher it hits the body (apparently).. but ok I'll ask FFR for more info.

[RoadRacer]

My thoughts were that the TOP of the reservoir and fluid must be highest point. Which they are. Wrong?

[DarthTedious]

It all depends on the top of the fluid level, the reservoir is secondary to that. As long as your fluid level is higher than your hoses and masters it will gravity feed as it tries to equalize levels. (source: am engineer, but its been a while so feel free to disagree) Yours should be fine RoadRacer, but you will have to be careful since a little bit of fluid drop will put it your fluid level below the hoses and create a potential high point that wont gravity feed your masters.

As I type this I am thinking I need to go double check my hoses to make sure I am not getting any high spots and that I have taken my own advice! I mounted it in a similar location, just a bit higher. I would post a picture, but it keeps giving me an "upload failed" error.

[JOP33]

The hose came with the brake master cylinders and is positioned like most people's reservoir that I found.. and the manual. any higher it hits the body (apparently).. but ok I'll ask FFR for more info.

I went Tony at FFR with the same question and he said that mine should be fine...6913469135

[DaveS53]

DarthTedious is being polite. The majority of the reservoir volume is unavailable to gravity feed the MCs. As soon as the fluid level drops below the level of the MC hoses, no feed will occur. You may not need a lot more, but if you want most of the volume available, the bottom of the tank needs to be raised. You have very little available to gravity feed.

You can prove this with a plastic container, a short length of 1/4" clear plastic hose, and a 1/4" straight barb fitting used for drip sprinklers. With the hose barb in the bottom of the container and the hose pushed onto the barb, hold the end of the hose even with the top of the container and begin filling it with water. No water will come out unless the end of the hose is dropped lower than the top of the container. Then it will quit running out when the end of the hose is the same as the level in the container.

I'm also an engineer. I hope Tony isn't. This might be a grade school science demonstration.

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Water-Level

[RoadRacer]

Thanks all. Mine looks worse in picture than it really is and I can tweak the pipe to be flatter/lower. It's a little long right now
Long

[RoadRacer]

DarthTedious is being polite. The majority of the reservoir volume is unavailable to gravity feed the MCs. As soon as the fluid level drops below the level of the MC hoses, no feed will occur. You may not need a lot more, but if you want most of the volume available, the bottom of the tank needs to be raised. You have very little available to gravity feed.

I understand the concept.. I'd love to move it up later once I know where I can. Here's a perfect example of the downside to stage 1, and having never seen a 33 in real life. Pictures really don't get you the dimensions or relative positioning required.

Here's a question you can help with though.. where does the brake fluid go? Obviously there won't be leaks. It's not compressible, so how often is this level critical? Not being facetious, I am seriously curious if this will need to be part of annual maintenance, monthly or weekly?

[RoadRacer]

I made some progress on the first brake lines that FFR supplied. So far so good. Easy to bend, and I didn't have to spend too long on these first two lines. Haven't clamped yet, tie-wraps are temporary.

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However.. it's a little shorter than than the manual shows. In the manual, the MC's are slightly different - the current ones need slightly longer lines. As you can see below, I'm ~4" short at the front when I try to go around the LCA. Looking at the manual, the first connection should be the other side of the second steering flange. Hmm

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[DaveS53]

I understand the concept.. I'd love to move it up later once I know where I can. Here's a perfect example of the downside to stage 1, and having never seen a 33 in real life. Pictures really don't get you the dimensions or relative positioning required.

Here's a question you can help with though.. where does the brake fluid go? Obviously there won't be leaks. It's not compressible, so how often is this level critical? Not being facetious, I am seriously curious if this will need to be part of annual maintenance, monthly or weekly?

The brake fluid level will drop by whatever amount it takes to move the pistons in the calipers, whenever the brakes are applied. When you release the pedal, it goes back up. The total amount should never change unless there is a leak. Most car owners rarely even think of looking at the brake fluid level. It is recommended to change the fluid every few years, or if you notice the color change from light amber to a darker color.

[RoadRacer]

First thing I did today was move the reservoir up 1.5" so I don't have to worry about that any more. Thanks to DaveS53 for the nudge. I reused most of the holes, but the lower grommet hole through the firewall I'll either plug or cover with a badge/FFR plate.

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FFR said there was more than enough brake line, but as I said, the route I followed from the manual ended up with mine being short by 4-6 inches. Luckily O'Reilly's sell the exact same brand of pre-made brake line in various lengths so I bought a 30" replacement for the 20" for under $5. All the brake lines are going together so well I'm glad I never bought the fancy Eastwood flaring kit - the kit lines are bending and fitting really nicely - and easily.

Excuse the noob video - I know better than to take video upright, but I forgot in the moment. It's my first video, so don't crucify me :(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGsRVE9odE0

I put the 3-way connector in a better place than the manual (IMO!) - it's back behind the chassis tubes and allows the lines to run tighter to chassis too. I'll support it all well, and make sure no brake line touches any chassis.

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I ran all the way to the calipers, but I do want some advice on how/where to run the braided brake line. What the best route to keep away from moving parts during steering and suspension? Not clear if the banjo's needed to be a particular orientation..

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[Barrel]

I'm not sure if you're going with bike fenders but if you are can I suggest that now would be a good time to trial fit the fender mounting brackets . That will help you run the braided brake lines so that they won't rub on the brackets in final assembly.

[RoadRacer]

I'm not sure if you're going with bike fenders but if you are can I suggest that now would be a good time to trial fit the fender mounting brackets . That will help you run the braided brake lines so that they won't rub on the brackets in final assembly.

No probably not. I don't mind the fronts when fitted well (like tecmotions) but I've never seen rears I like

[1932]

You need to check that lines will fit the body openings, i had to move mine after doing as plans.

[RoadRacer]

You need to check that lines will fit the body openings, i had to move mine after doing as plans.

I won't have a body for some time unfortunately. What area did you have to adjust and not follow manual? I couldn't see anything in your build thread

[RoadRacer]

Had a few hours spare, so I ground the shafts a little and trial fitted steering column, shaft and UJ's. Fitted pretty nicely, so next time I'll finesse the spacing and drill for grub screws.

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Having completed the front brakes, I paused on the brake lines so I can look around at how to run the rear lines - I've only just realized that FFR don't supply rear flexible brake lines. I suppose this is part of the "rear end" that you have to supply. I've posted some questions on that elsewhere.. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24938-Rear-brake-lines-and-routing&p=284666&viewfull=1#post284666

[RoadRacer]

A few boring bits today (no pun intended) - adjusted the steering shafts to be perfectly aligned, marked with sharpie and drilled them on the press. Reassembled and cut one of the grub screws shorter for next to the firewall flange. The manual says "use the shorter one" here but I got 8 the same length. Rounded the end on the bench grinder then ran the 5/16x18 die down it to get the thread back. Installed a treat.

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I was given some brand new stock Mustang GT brake lines and they fit nicely with my calipers in stock location, so I'll probably use them (yeah, rubber) to run to the chassis. Perfect length given that my rear here in full droop but I'll remove shocks and run through the motions anyway before finally positioning.

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[srobinsonx2]

Looking good. Stay cool in this Texas heat.

[Svtfreak]

The level in the master cylinder drops over time to due to pad wear. The calipers don't return as far as pads wear, and hats why you have to pick them back in when doing brake jobs. Also why you shouldn't keep reservoir full as when you push them back, it could overflow it. On the stock style, you might have to top it off as the pads wear then suck some out when you do a brake job.

[RoadRacer]

Thanks, makes sense. I've moved it up much higher now so I should be all good.

[RoadRacer]

This weekend I finished bending the brake lines - I junked the stock mustang flex lines and bought some parts from Mark at Breeze (http://www.breezeautomotive.com/home.php?cat_id=1) (70550 & 70085) that made a much nicer job of it. Came with brackets (which I bent 90deg because I wanted to attach to inner side) and all the fixings I needed. Great fast service from Breeze (which you all knew already I'm sure!)

Even with the calipers in stock location at the back, it all worked well. I'll attach a brake line clip to the rear to be sure, but it's not in the way of the shock even unsupported. This was the final leg of the hard line, and I hit my goal of doing it all without cutting or flaring any line. I may add or modify bits, but I want to use as much of what FFR supplied as possible! Got my $30k budget (no paint) in mind every day :D

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I received my clutch cable adjuster so I eye-balled the spot on the firewall that lined up with the quadrant (was about 1/4" to the right of the manual's template). I used a 1 3/8" hole cutter and some Lowes machine screws with locknuts rather than the self-tappers that came with the adjuster.

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Lastly, and out of order I know, but I put all the parts on or around the fuel tank and mocked it in place. No holes drilled yet, but another box emptied! I did this because I want to run the fuel lines next so I can do all the line line brackets at once.

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I also found a local guy selling a slightly warmed crate 350 with 20k miles at a great price, so I'm hoping I can get that for my "break-in" motor while I save up for a blueprint 383. Fingers crossed..

[RoadRacer]

Picked up a local craigslist motor - goodwrench crate 350 with supposedly 20k miles, performer airgap intake, edelbrock/weber carb, mini starter, roller rockers.

Turns over by hand easily, so nipping out to borrow a compression tester from autozone. It was a cheap motor, so it'll allow me to get the car running without having to save up for the blueprint 383..

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[RoadRacer]

I pulled the rocker covers and oil pan off, haven't seen anything bad yet, and I have turned it over by hand to watch rockers and crank.

oil was black, but no bits in pan or around rockers. Is it worth cutting open the oil filter? Never done that before.

water was clean and clear with lots of antifreeze - smelled sweet and slightly oily consistency.

I notice there are two coolant plugs in the iron heads (one each side), don't remember those before in my aluminum heads. Strangely there were no plugs in those holes... the guys said it had "run 6 weeks ago" and a crate motor with only 20k miles, but it's awfully dirty outside for that - and why would they remove those plugs? water pump had only two (loose) bolts in too. A bit odd.

I love a mystery.

Came with a edelbrock/weber carb that I can't track down. doesn't have a model number on, only "8867" which the interwebs isn't quite sure what it is. Hopefully at least a 600cfm so it'll go-kart me well enough.

On the plus side, there's no obviously broken parts in here, so it'll probably run :D

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[RoadRacer]

Solved a lot of these mysteries after talking to someone who's built more SBC than I've had hot dinners:

- the coolant plugs in the heads confirm a later model motor, and they are open because he pulled his water temp etc from those holes (I'm used to that coming out of intake in older motors)
- they pulled the water pump bolts because they removed the accessory brackets

So, I think I'm good. Since there is no sludge or any telltales, there's no need to pull heads or intake. I'll button it up, paint it and throw it in. Result!

Of course, I'm not expecting much. I probably have a pretty stock 250-290hp motor here (480 cam he says) but that'll do me for beta testing.

[srobinsonx2]

I'm no help with engines. But, I am looking forward to seeing it run. Once things slow down on my project, I will give you a ring. I would love to catch up and maybe chime check out a '33. Looks great so far.

[RoadRacer]

Once things slow down on my project, I will give you a ring. I would love to catch up and maybe chime check out a '33. Looks great so far.

Slow down or you just need some time away from dust and mayhem. Plenty of cold beers and clean air over here :)

[RoadRacer]

Had guests here for a week, then hosted a company pool party.. and the in-laws show up this week for 3 weeks. So garage time has been minimal.. I miss it.

In the odd moment I've been wire-brushing and degreasing the engine for some high temp paint, just to make it look a little better. Oil pan, water pump, valve covers, balancer are now gloss black, everything else (block, heads, intake) are this pontiac blue. I love this color - it's the color the stripes were on my GT40, and will be also the stripes on the '33.

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[RoadRacer]

I can't believe how cheap everyone is selling these secondhand 18" mustang wheels and tires. I haven't measured, but I assume these fit the standard kit and 2002 8.8 rear. I'm expecting to pay way more than this per corner for my final setup.. so this seems a great deal to get it on the road. On FB marketplace today there are more than a dozen of these exact sets.. I wonder why so many are selling?

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[RoadRacer]

Back to it after over a month away as our house has been full of visitors. I've been painting engine parts in the spare moments, and just reassembled intake manifold last week. Junk motor at least looks good now!

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Did some more planning around the fuel system, which led to needing a fuel pump & regulator decision. I decided in the end to stick with the mechanical fuel pump (that I'd previously removed and blanked off), so I cleaned that up, painted it and put it back on the engine. I had a mini starter lying around from long ago, so fitted and shimmed that. Still works great - probably 20 years old. I mocked up the engine mounts and measured in the engine bay.. seems that the fuel pump fits there, so I hope for no surprises.

So now I know where the fuel line will end up (no need for a regulator) I'll get those in next weekend.

While I was waiting for paint to dry I installed the fuse panel and laid out the wiring harness with tie-wraps to see where it all goes.

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[RoadRacer]

Put the motor mounts on the engine in order to pull it alongside and line it up with the chassis correctly, then marked the chassis where the fuel pump is, so I can run the fuel lines to end there. Ran the fuel lines as low on the chassis as I can to keep away from heat at motor and exhaust areas. Used the 5/16" line, again managed to run it all without cutting or flaring - two standard 60" lengths. Lots of weird bends in the back piece, that was fun :)

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Since I'm not using a return line the clips FFR supply are way too big, so I'm running down to Grainger to pick up some 5/16 ID clamps, and can finally clamp all the brake and fuel lines.

Sprayed and assembled the e-brake too.

[RoadRacer]

Went through tightening the brake and fuel lines then drilled and final (!) fitted all to the chassis.

Fitted the SBC motor - now I can see why they say "shorty water pump and pulleys" in the instructions - there's a 1mm gap between the steering rack and bottom pulley. :) Oh well, that's unfortunate, I was hoping to use the ones that came free with motor.

Everything else fit well, including mechanical fuel pump.

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[sturigus83]

This is sturigus83.RoadRacer I enjoyed reading your building thread and learned a few things as well. Suprised to see your running a pontiac motor but I think its cool. Must be a 389 I had one in my old 65 GTO ran good. My self when I start mine I am taking a motor out of my old truck it still runs but is a 5.8 351 is what I am running in mine. Keep cool and have a good day.

[RoadRacer]

This is sturigus83.RoadRacer I enjoyed reading your building thread and learned a few things as well. Suprised to see your running a pontiac motor but I think its cool. Must be a 389 I had one in my old 65 GTO ran good. My self when I start mine I am taking a motor out of my old truck it still runs but is a 5.8 351 is what I am running in mine. Keep cool and have a good day.

Thanks! It's a small block chevy 350, but I do like the pontiac blue color, which I'll also use as body stripes later. But I do love those 389's - I've owned a couple of 64 Catalina's with that motor.

[RoadRacer]

Today I thought I'd take couple hours to assemble and attach the radiator, as another step towards test running my motor. Ha! The Gods are against me this afternoon.

First, the manual says that the fan should be a "tight fit" between the welded tabs.. not so with mine. The aluminum fan mounts are 15 3/4" long, the tabs are 16" apart. Not sure whether I'll put washers in there or re-bend the fan aluminum to be longer.

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But anyway.. the manual then shows how the radiator attaches to the chassis... it doesn't. The grill attaches to be chassis!

And guess what, guys and gals, the grill doesn't come with stage 1. Oh, how I laughed :D

Now I need to come up with a way to clamp the radiator to the chassis temporarily, but sturdy enough, without damaging anything. Thinking caps on.

[NAZ]

7439274393
Looking at the photos in post 66 showing the front pulley to steering rack and rear of the engine to the firewall it appears you have mounted that engine way farther forward than you could have. Must be a reason for that but as you can see from the attached photos, there is plenty of room in the engine bay to move it to the rear if you choose. I have a hex adapter on my lower pulley that I use to turn the engine over and a 1/2" drive deep well socket easily fits between the pulley and the steering rack, there's ~3" gap where I have the motor set.

[RoadRacer]

7439274393
Looking at the photos in post 66 showing the front pulley to steering rack and rear of the engine to the firewall it appears you have mounted that engine way farther forward than you could have.

Thanks NAZ. Are you using the FFR motor mounts? I don't want to assume anything with your build :) I just assumed it was my stock water pump (FFR specify a shorty one) PLUS my pulleys are miles off the harmonic balancer compared to yours.

Because photos can be deceiving, here are some measurements. From rear of head to bulkhead is ~3.75", from front of head to rear of chassis tube is ~9.75"

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[NAZ]

I'm using the FFR SBC motor mounts and have a 3" gap between the right head and the firewall (of course the left will be more). Thought you were running a short water pump like mine but another look at your photos it appears you have a long pump -- my bad. If you need more room in the front you can see from my photo how much more you'll get with a short pump.

[RoadRacer]

After 3 weekends working on a bathroom remodel I did get half a day in the garage. Since I'm having engine start party on Dec 3rd when friends are in town I decided to finish plumbing the fuel line. Riveted the filter in position, and ran hose, but wanted to get 90deg push-on fittings to improve routing so ordered those. Then, at the other end of the fuel by the engine.. omg. Wasted hours in local parts stores and online trying to find the right parts!

I'm running the edelbrock carb and mechanical fuel pump that came with motor, which has 3/8 hose fitting for inlet and inverse flare for outlet. No-one carries these parts; tried o-reilly's, autozone, lowes and some other hardware store. Finally found two pieces at (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220667b) summit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220186b), but even they didn't carry a 5/16 flare to 3/8 hose that I needed to put a 3/8 hose on the FFR-supplied 5/16 hardline. I ended up finding it at just one place - fastenal (https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/441494-131280) - and they only had it in stock at 3 stores nationwide!

overall, only $25 of parts, but man, what a time sink.

[RoadRacer]

Got y new 90deg quick-disconnect fuel fittings from amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E35WKG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), so finished up the rear fuel lines.

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tie-wrapped the radiator into rough position, adjusted overflow tank, wired up fan to thermostat in inlet manifold, fitted some nasty $30 gauges from autozone so I can start the engine. sprayed my new short water pump and fitted the headers that came from summit. Surprisingly they "just fitted" without even having to lift the motor. Wasn't expecting that. Well, there might be a smidge of adjustment to the drivers side - looks like the header kisses the motor mount, but it isn't by much.

Lots of small fiddly bits done, got fittings for carb - fuel pump - fuel line all done.

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Engine start scheduled for Sat Dec 2nd..

[erlihemi]

Looking Great!

[RoadRacer]

Good day today, although probably doesn't look that different. I went through the wiring harness, and connected everything I could (left off the dash harness) - engine ground, starter, ignition switch, etc, etc.. threw in my daily's battery and turned the key - whoosh! haha, well I'm not ready to start quite yet, but it did do what I hoped - turn the motor over.

And nothing got hot or blew so that's a bonus :)

Very impressed so far with the wiring harness. plug and play.. at least for my simple carb sbc.

Battery cable is a foot short though.. no way it'll reach where it's supposed to. Still waiting for spacers for my new water pump, and a couple connectors, but we're close to getting fluids.

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[HVACMAN]

Good day today, although probably doesn't look that different. I went through the wiring harness, and connected everything I could (left off the dash harness) - engine ground, starter, ignition switch, etc, etc.. threw in my daily's battery and turned the key - whoosh! haha, well I'm not ready to start quite yet, but it did do what I hoped - turn the motor over.

And nothing got hot or blew so that's a bonus :)

Very impressed so far with the wiring harness. plug and play.. at least for my simple carb sbc.

Battery cable is a foot short though.. no way it'll reach where it's supposed to. Still waiting for spacers for my new water pump, and a couple connectors, but we're close to getting fluids.

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If you don't mind me asking, which wiring harness are you using and where are you planning for your battery location?

[RoadRacer]

If you don't mind me asking, which wiring harness are you using and where are you planning for your battery location?

Th stock harness, I don't know much about it other than it's in a Ron Francis box. As for battery location, I have so far assumed it'll be in stock location, I'd rather not lose trunk space, I plan long road trips.

But even if I run straight from starter to stock location, it's short. Anyway, no big deal to get some battery cable - I'll probably put a jump-start terminal in the trunk and battery cutoff somewhere so I have to rework a little anyway.

[erlihemi]

RR

I put my master disconnect behind the passenger seat near the access panel where the cable would reach. Then just bought a short cable to go from the master to the battery. I can reach the master belted in the drivers seat so I can kill the whole harness in the event I create a welder...

[RoadRacer]

RR

I put my master disconnect behind the passenger seat near the access panel where the cable would reach. Then just bought a short cable to go from the master to the battery. I can reach the master belted in the drivers seat so I can kill the whole harness in the event I create a welder...

Yes, I like that idea, thanks! I'll also have another run to the trunk and use something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aww-500931/overview/

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[RoadRacer]

Good score today- found a local guy on facebook marketplace selling GT500 wheels and tires for $500 - great condition, and brand new tires at the rear. 275x35x19 and 285x35x19.

These will be my "running in" shoes, I'll eventually replace with some wider rears.

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[RoadRacer]

Got it on the ground for the first time - funny how much smaller it looks when it's low. Liking the look of the dark grey wheels. Never seems to come out dark enough in photos.

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[erlihemi]

Nice wheels. I like the dark gray myself. It does seem smaller when you set it on the floor. To compensate, the engine must growl loudly...

[RoadRacer]

Had a great morning - I've been preparing for my friends to visit from Georgia so they could help with first engine start. In the end everything went almost perfectly. Turns out the fuel pump I got with the motor didn't pump, so we had to buy a new one from O'Reilly's for $17.. then everything else fired up, ran perfectly and kept cool at 180-200 degrees, 40-50lbs oil pressure.

I have gopro footage of the whole morning, but took a quickie at the end to post here. Rolled it outside because the cheapy headers were burning off the temp paint.


https://youtu.be/fT2KYME0Ym4

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[TDSapp]

Had a great morning - I've been preparing for my friends to visit from Georgia so they could help with first engine start. In the end everything went almost perfectly. Turns out the fuel pump I got with the motor didn't pump, so we had to buy a new one from O'Reilly's for $17.. then everything else fired up, ran perfectly and kept cool at 180-200 degrees, 40-50lbs oil pressure.

I have gopro footage of the whole morning, but took a quickie at the end to post here. Rolled it outside because the cheapy headers were burning off the temp paint.


https://youtu.be/fT2KYME0Ym4

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Nice... I thought it would have been louder not having mufflers on it.

You sure you don't want that Turbo 400 to bolt onto that fly wheel until you get your transmission delivered. :-)

[RoadRacer]

I noticed that the ride height in the manual says 4.5 front, 5 rear, and mine was way higher than that - over 7 both ends. So even though I have no body, I decided to get it closer to final height. Adjusting the rear was easy, although without the body weight I had to adjust all the way to bottom of the shock thread.

At the front though - OMG. I had installed the shock collar just a smidge past touching the coil, but it was enough that I couldn't budge it. I had to remove the shocks completely from the car to adjust. If you're starting out (and have the standard body-down shocks) I recommend that you install the threaded collar so it's not touching the spring when unloaded! That way you can jack up and adjust when weight removed. Removing the front shocks with the engine in and radiator on is a painful process. The bottom mounts with those g/d spacers... took about an hour of swearing each.

So now the rear control arms are about level, and the front suspension looks very different. Suddenly a LOT more gap between the overflow catch can and the UCA.

Curious - from those with finished cars, is the top bar of the UCA level when correctly setup? It's close and it made me wonder.

Looking forward to the long weekend, with plans to do some tidying up wiring, swap the rear brakes side-to-side, convert to manual choke, etc..

[1932]

You need to check shock travel and set 55/60 percent on compression.

[RoadRacer]

Thanks, Did I miss something? I have standard shocks and don’t see any adjuster but perhaps I’m misunderstanding?

I’ve had adjustable shocks in the past and had a knob that would adjust rebound rate, but nothing like that here..

[1932]

For the best use of the shocks you need to know the total travel (in&out), then set ride height so that 55 to 60 percent of total travel is out.
Hope that this makes more since.

[erlihemi]

I noticed that the ride height in the manual says 4.5 front, 5 rear, and mine was way higher than that - over 7 both ends. So even though I have no body, I decided to get it closer to final height. Adjusting the rear was easy, although without the body weight I had to adjust all the way to bottom of the shock thread.

So this is another misleading dimension that is dependent on wheel and tire combination. FFR should show dimensions based on a fixed point on the frame to the control arm or ball joints for example. Measuring from floor to frame can vary an inch just with tire changes. I'm sure the other site has better discussion on control arm geometry. I have avoided playing with the front Koni's for now as I found issues on the rear. I have the old "stiff" set so mine are flipped from yours and my radiator sits back more. On the rear I found mine to have only 1.5" rebound travel after I put everything else where I wanted it. This actually results in unloading one rear tire during cone chasing. So I am looking at longer QA1's in the rear to center up travel better and the softer springs. I'll leave the front as is until I can actually push it harder without the back hopping around. My front center to center on the coil over is about 13" which centers the travel.

[RoadRacer]

Yes! Tire height makes a huge difference and they don’t state the “standard” tire height that they use. But having said that I wanted to get way closer to a reasonable ride height. At 7 inches f/r the geometry was way out.. e.g the rear LCA was at a very noticeable angle. I look forward to working on the geometry/corner weights etc properly when at final weight.

[erlihemi]

Yep, I have my rear lower arm on the lower hole and just slightly angled (non IRS). I haven't put on the adjustable control arms sitting under the bench yet. My pinion sits above the three link brace enough so that I never needed to notch it like some have. This was brought up in the build school and it is really a matter of setting the chassis low and getting the driveline center up in the tunnel. My front upper control arm is presently at a 6 degree down angle to the upper ball joint. QA1 and others have a nice spanner tool to put on your 3/8" extension to reach those tight lock nuts. I would recommend getting the Torrington thrust bearings and the tool together so adjustments are easier.

[RoadRacer]

I bought the cheapo summit headers that come with non-VHT paint on it, so I took them off and stripped, primered and repainted with exhaust rattle-can paint. But I did bake it on the BBQ per the instructions - 250 for 30, 400 for 30, 650 for 30 (although 650 was unlikely on BBQ, only goes to 550). Fitted them back up today and ran motor for 30 mins too.

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I also took care of something that had been bothering me - I'd put in the rear without modifying to swap the brakes to the front side. So I drained the diff, removed axles, ground off the unnecessary brackets, resprayed and swapped all the brakes side-to-side. I'd never been inside a diff before, so learned how it all goes together with c-clips, etc.

That diamond cutting disk I bought but cynically wondered if it would really last like 1,000 disks (or whatever they claimed), is still working great and made light work of cutting this 3/16 steel.

Before, during and after the swap..

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[RoadRacer]

Ordered, just couldn't resist. Cheapo ebay of course, whole thing was less than a decent shell (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-FORD-ORIGINAL-STYLE-GRILL-SHELL-W-STAINLESS-INSERT-SMOOTH-NO-HOLES/322681365988?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649). Brings my total spent so far to $16,333.18, but I hope my removing 33 grill from stage 2 will go some way to offset this :)

If it doesn't work, I have some nice garage wall art.

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[AJT '33]

Ordered, just couldn't resist. Cheapo ebay of course, whole thing was less than a decent shell (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-FORD-ORIGINAL-STYLE-GRILL-SHELL-W-STAINLESS-INSERT-SMOOTH-NO-HOLES/322681365988?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649). Brings my total spent so far to $16,333.18, but I hope my removing 33 grill from stage 2 will go some way to offset this :)

If it doesn't work, I have some nice garage wall art.

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Very curious on how it goes because if I pull the trigger on the 35 Pickup then that would definitely be a change I would make!

[erlihemi]

[QUOTE=RoadRacer;308141]I bought the cheapo summit headers that come with non-VHT paint on it, so I took them off and stripped, primered and repainted with exhaust rattle-can paint. But I did bake it on the BBQ per the instructions - 250 for 30, 400 for 30, 650 for 30 (although 650 was unlikely on BBQ, only goes to 550). Fitted them back up today and ran motor for 30 mins too.

So did the exhaust smell like Hickory or Mesquite?? I'm thinking maybe I'll do mine with Applewood.

[RoadRacer]

But I did bake it on the BBQ per the instructions

So did the exhaust smell like Hickory or Mesquite?? I'm thinking maybe I'll do mine with Applewood.

smelt like propane - i ain't fancy here :)

[HVACMAN]

I bought the cheapo summit headers that come with non-VHT paint on it, so I took them off and stripped, primered and repainted with exhaust rattle-can paint. But I did bake it on the BBQ per the instructions - 250 for 30, 400 for 30, 650 for 30 (although 650 was unlikely on BBQ, only goes to 550). Fitted them back up today and ran motor for 30 mins too.

78813

I also took care of something that had been bothering me - I'd put in the rear without modifying to swap the brakes to the front side. So I drained the diff, removed axles, ground off the unnecessary brackets, resprayed and swapped all the brakes side-to-side. I'd never been inside a diff before, so learned how it all goes together with c-clips, etc.

That diamond cutting disk I bought but cynically wondered if it would really last like 1,000 disks (or whatever they claimed), is still working great and made light work of cutting this 3/16 steel.

Before, during and after the swap..

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Just curious. What was bothering you about having the brakes on the rear?

[RoadRacer]

Just curious. What was bothering you about having the brakes on the rear?

Partially because I had screwed up a little. I had run the brake lines (and decided on the location of the chassis tab) when the car was up on stands, so suspension was at full droop. Rookie mistake. When it was on floor.. and then even worse when at approx ride height, the tab was too low and the flex lines were not running nicely over the rear. I could fix that by moving the tab and flex lines.. it seemed a better choice to move calipers and put the tab and calipers closer to each other and nothing for flex line to rub against.

Another factor was the seemingly nicer routing of handbrake cable - admittedly i haven't done that yet but I liked the "around and back" radius rather than under the rear route. Once I knew it could be done pretty easily, it just felt right :)

[RoadRacer]

Did some aluminum work; fitted the panel under the fuel tank, then drilled and bolted the fuel tank and ran the fuel lines and breather through aluminum. Then fitted the upright panel, patch (battery) panel and passenger floor panel. monotonous with all the marking and drilling, but also kinda satisfying getting them on the car. They'll live with clecos for a while though.

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[RoadRacer]

Just before we left for vacation, looked what showed up! I quickly unwrapped and sat over the radiator in stock position - looks pretty good already!! Obviously I'll play with vertical angle, but I was surprised how good it looks laid back.

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Yes a couple of grill bars came loose in box and I haven't snapped the grill into the shell properly. We were literally running out the door :)

[AJT '33]

Just before we left for vacation, looked what showed up! I quickly unwrapped and sat over the radiator in stock position - looks pretty good already!! Obviously I'll play with vertical angle, but I was surprised how good it looks laid back.

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Yes a couple of grill bars came loose in box and I haven't snapped the grill into the shell properly. We were literally running out the door :)

I know I will be watching your progress very closely!

[wallace18]

Looks cool laid back.

[HVACMAN]

I wasn't to sure about this idea when you first started talking about it, but that looks awesome!

[RoadRacer]

After assembling rear brakes with new rotors/pads and adding e-brake, I played around with the position/slope of the new 32 grill. I won't make final decision until the body arrives so I can see how it looks, but I raised it slightly and sat it up a little to align with cowl. Still very laid back for a 32 grill, but now the top of the grill is much closer to pointing at where I think the body will be.

There are four holes on the grill where I can make up a bracket to attach to existing FFR points.

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I celebrated by updating my avatar, so the old white/striped concept drawing is gone now (just as well, I had diverged quite a lot from it!).

[RoadRacer]

Got a late birthday present in the mail today :)

Love how this just slides on without adapters etc. I love it.

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[RoadRacer]

I drained and removed the radiator so I can start on fabricating the necessary bracket(s) to attach to my '32 grill and chassis. Looks like it was made for it so far - I can use the existing "F5" steel bracket, and just make a CAD (C for Cardboard!) template that will attach grill to both rad and chassis, and leave the headlight mount usable too. Ordered some .125 6061 T4 to make the bracket.

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While the rad was off, I mounted the horns hidden in that spot, bending the brackets to get them even further back. I hated the route of the suugested wiring, because there was just nowhere nice to route the front loom on the drivers side. Perhaps this is a SBC thing, but the header and steering just left nowhere protected to run the loom. I want it away from heat, the steering and not exposed to the roadrash from the wheel or below the chassis.

But then I had a brainwave and tried the passenger side, where there is a LOT of room. No steering (obviously!), and the header is nowhere near the engine mount. I mocked it up and it works perfectly, so I tie-wrapped in place for now and trimmed the horn, fan and light wires to correct length. Lots of heatshrink and tidying up and I'm very happy with it.

Threw my DD battery in, guessed where the horn wire was supposed to go, and DAMN those horns are loud! I dunno the real answer but I just shoved the wire down the white plastic tube, and gave it a quarter turn to lock in place. Seems to work! If the engine isnt loud enough, these horns would wake the devil.

Anyway, here are pics of the route I took.

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[RoadRacer]

Created the aluminum brackets to attach grill to rad.. same bracket will also attach to normal FFR "F5" steel brackets soon. I took a bunch of photos that I hope are self-explanatory, but ask if you need anything.

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[RoadRacer]

..Continued

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I'm pleased with the grill - it has proven to fit very well over (and attach to) the FFR radiator, and after studying pics of others will give more ground clearance at very front than the stock '33 grill. It'll also attach to the steel pretty easily - I'll either bend the steel brackets or make some spacers from round tube. There are already slots in steel bracket, so I may not need any more adjustment than that. But if I do, it's easy to add slots in my aluminum bracket.

[RoadRacer]

Just to compare the stock position and mine, here's a side view.

You'll see my rad is roughly the same vertical position, but stood more upright (look at fan mounting aluminum tab relative to steel bracket). The bottom is in standard location, but the top is about two inches forward. This gives me more room in front of shocks.

I also like that my grill covers and hides the radiator completely, unlike the '33 which just bolts on the front of the rad. That makes a difference when you're going hoodless and sideless like I plan.

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[RoadRacer]

I added a speedway motors honeycomb radiator protector while the rad was off the car.

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I then focused on mounting my rad/grill to the chassis. It was so easy FFR should offer this 32 shell as an option! After mocking up and measuring a dozen times I threw the steel brackets in a vice and "adjusted them" with a 7lb hammer.

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It's a slightly weird bend to describe, but the steel now lies flush with my aluminum. I drilled the first hole and put a temp countersunk screw there - which is covered up when I put the grill on, so it's pretty clean.

The final position is the same vertically as stock FFR, and lines up nicely with where the body will be (as in, a little above my firewall).

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[RoadRacer]

I wanted to final-fit the brake reservoirs and the coolant overflow tank, so that meant final fixing the firewall. I sprayed it black first, let it dry a couple days, then clear silicone and riveted in place. Added the brake reservoirs and coolant overflow, symmetrically. I have two independent reservoirs now just for safety and peace of mind. Still have to refit the steering column..

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[wrp]

Really looks good

[RoadRacer]

Got my new heater/defroster from summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-506101

I haven't done much to the car this weekend other than work out how/where I'm going to mount it and run hoses. And shop online for heater hose fittings. Always a pain to find the right combo.. in particular a 5/8 barb to female -10AN right angle, black anodized fitting. Summit/Jegs don't stock - they have -10 barb. Pegasus have them but are a) way more money and b) charge shipping too. UGH.

TBH, I don't know if -10 barb is close enough to 5/8 barb.. anyone know? AN is a law unto itself.. even with the mass of help online I can't find -10AN barb dimensions

I'd love to use the supplied grommets and go straight through the firewall but there's no nice way to route the hoses to do that. Maybe if I was running hood sides I wouldn't care. So another $100 spent on hose ends that I wasn't expecting :( Coming up the firewall, then 90deg fitting both sides.

Anyway, the heater is nice - so small. I love the servo controlled defrost or feet flap option, and the servo heat controller that I'll mount to outside of firewall. The actual control knobs look a little cheap and nasty, so I'll either find better versions or just "modify" what they provide. I think just mounting knobs to the dash direct without the box, and removing the chrome accent might be enough to look half decent.

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[myjones]

I ended up finding 90* 5/8 barb to male pipe in anodized black fittings by searching for intake manifold heater hose fittings.

I used 4 of those and 2 bulkhead fittings on mine. On the Hemi 33 it worked best to have those tight coupled 90's pointing down
and centered about 8" apart and 2" down on the firewall. The 2 90's under the dash point to the passenger side. Then I used 2
heater hoses from a Camaro IIRC because they were long enough to reach the heater and they had a molded 180 on the end to
neatly couple with the heater core. Those black 90's leave just enough space from the firewall to attach the hoses and clamps.
HTH
Dale
7L Hemi 33

[RoadRacer]

Thanks Dale, makes sense.

[AJT '33]

Got my new heater/defroster from summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-506101

I haven't done much to the car this weekend other than work out how/where I'm going to mount it and run hoses. And shop online for heater hose fittings. Always a pain to find the right combo.. in particular a 5/8 barb to female -10AN right angle, black anodized fitting. Summit/Jegs don't stock - they have -10 barb. Pegasus have them but are a) way more money and b) charge shipping too. UGH.

TBH, I don't know if -10 barb is close enough to 5/8 barb.. anyone know? AN is a law unto itself.. even with the mass of help online I can't find -10AN barb dimensions

I'd love to use the supplied grommets and go straight through the firewall but there's no nice way to route the hoses to do that. Maybe if I was running hood sides I wouldn't care. So another $100 spent on hose ends that I wasn't expecting :( Coming up the firewall, then 90deg fitting both sides.

Anyway, the heater is nice - so small. I love the servo controlled defrost or feet flap option, and the servo heat controller that I'll mount to outside of firewall. The actual control knobs look a little cheap and nasty, so I'll either find better versions or just "modify" what they provide. I think just mounting knobs to the dash direct without the box, and removing the chrome accent might be enough to look half decent.

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I am about to purchase the exact same unit for my 33, would you have any additional photos of how you ended up mounting the unit as well as running the hoses and possibly vent runs?? I really don't want to lock in all the wiring under the dash until this until this unit is mounted to ensure there is enough clearances for everything else. Any insight that you can provide will be greatly appreciated. As well, I also have been looking at a better looking control system however have not seen any that look good enough. Seriously now thinking of hiding them behind a faux panel that would look like a riveted piece of copper which would follow my them so I don't see them keeping the dash clean. I know its a pain to adjust opening a panel however the cleaner look is more important to me than direct accessibility. Any insight is appreciated!

[TxMike64]

I'm watching this install as I've been looking at this same heater unit.
I'm curious to see how it will all fit under the dash as I'll have: this heater, a Telorvek panel (+ECM), the FFR fuse panel, the DR wiper setup, and an IMRC Control solenoid.

It looks like you can take the switches off the little panel to mount some other way - possibly directly on the dash if you want. And it looks like just a set screw holding the knob on the switch shaft - so take it off to use whatever knob you want.

I like that the water control valve is electric, not cable-operated. Easier to hide.

[RoadRacer]

Yeah I'll post plenty of pics when mounting.. I don't have a wiper choice yet, but the way this heater works it needs to be in the center (the floor heat isn't ducted, just comes out a servo-controlled flap). So the heater will go down low center, next to fuse panel. I'm hoping the wiper will either be in roof, or will fit on right side, but this heater is still so small, and because I don't have an computers or anything I maybe have room for a glove box :) Half joking because without the body I don't even know how deep the dash is :)

[RoadRacer]

Here's the heater mounted. I didn't want to get in the way of the transmission cover which attaches to the bottom square chassis member, so I angled the heater out at the bottom - and that way the bottom flap will direct air more out into cabin. spacing it like this allows me to put the harness behind the brackets, so I'm pleased with how it worked out. It's not quite centered because i wanted to leave the strengthening lip on fuse box panel and leave a small gap.

I'll still attach the harness with clips; don't want it rubbing against the brackets. I made the brackets from .125 6061-T4, and although very simple they turned out very sturdy.

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One more thing - the heater comes with right angle hose connectors (#121018), but we need straight (#121004). They sell the parts cheap ($7 each i think) but since they are just up the road I emailed sales@ and asked nicely if I could pop by.. they let me do a straight swap. I haven't ordered the bulkhead fittings from summit, so I can't route the hoses yet..

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[TxMike64]

Nice! I like your bracket idea - simple yet effective - and I'm sure the angle helps.

As small as that heater is it really puts into scale how little room there is under the dash - how little space there is in this car in general!

[RoadRacer]

Nice! I like your bracket idea - simple yet effective - and I'm sure the angle helps.

As small as that heater is it really puts into scale how little room there is under the dash - how little space there is in this car in general!

Gotta love triangles :) It's certainly very strong now, but we'll see if/how the pop rivets fatigue after 1000 miles of vibration. I may swap for rivnuts instead.

Yeah, I have no idea how people work with coyote computers and AC.. I feel like I have so much room, and I probably have a cubic foot left ;)

[AJT '33]

Gotta love triangles :) It's certainly very strong now, but we'll see if/how the pop rivets fatigue after 1000 miles of vibration. I may swap for rivnuts instead.

Yeah, I have no idea how people work with coyote computers and AC.. I feel like I have so much room, and I probably have a cubic foot left ;)

We ended up buying the same heater and will be installing it this weekend. We will be using Rivnuts and also we sourced all our fittings from Racetronix, www.racetronix.com, which have all the fittings including bulkhead and rubber hose adapters to AN. I ended making the decision to go to rubber braided hose as well for all the heater hose. Will post pics once done, will be plagiarizing your bracket system, really like that especially for wiring.

[RoadRacer]

We ended up buying the same heater and will be installing it this weekend. Will post pics once done, will be plagiarizing your bracket system, really like that especially for wiring.

Race you! I have all my fittings too, and have started building a little heat shield to put around the temperature servo and tidy up the hoses on the firewall.

[RoadRacer]

I was lucky to finish work early today and since I have a deck project waiting for me tomorrow I grabbed some time in the garage.

I finished the heat shield/mounting bracket for the heater valve (controls the temperature) and then managed to get one of the bulkhead fittings drilled. Got another hole to drill level for the other bulkhead fitting and I'll bolt the heatshield to the firewall with some right angle aluminum inside it - or I may just use another four screws to attach the valve to firewall.

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I'm happy with the way it went together, looking forward to finishing and getting hoses on soon

[RoadRacer]

As expected, my new deck took almost all my time, but I wanted to make some progress so I got the inside hoses on

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[RoadRacer]

Changed the plug leads - probably my first unnecessary splurge. :) The motor came with yellow good ones, but I hated the color on my black on black car, so I found a nice black braided set that match my DUI ignition https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-c9051bk

This is my first under header set, and they worked out perfectly. Perfect length, and now almost completely hidden. I'm so stoked! haha

Compare before and after.. still have to tie them up from headers.

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[RoadRacer]

Lots of rework this weekend.. same times you just gotta bite the bullet. All comes from fitting the heater. That meant I should revisit my decision to put the fan thermostat in the intake manifold, because the heater needs that spot. And although I made that decision on purpose, in hindsight I've changed my mind. Why keep the fan running until the engine cools off naturally? Seems silly. So I moved the thermostat into bottom of rad, where at least the temp is relevant and somewhat affected by the fan running.

So that meant removing rad, and undoing all the pretty wiring I'd done, because I needed the alternate thermostat wire. Got that, re wrapped and heat shrunk and all back together nicely. While the radiator was off I made some simple bottom brackets for the radiator, so it now uses one at top and bottom. I didn't like it attaching just at top and swinging in the breeze. But a very light weight bracket that will be sacrificial if I nudge something. I'll round it off a little and pretty it up.

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I also did some prep and paint on my heater valve mount/shield, but I decided to order some 120deg fittings rather than 90, so I'll update all those photos of heater fitting once I'm done.

[RoadRacer]

Engine finally running again after adding heater, moving fan thermostat and final fixing of radiator/grill.


https://youtu.be/OtUZKhfbN-A

Here are the final heater photos, showing the hoses from intake and water pump, up to servo heater valve then through firewall. I made this cover from my .125 aluminum since I'm going no-hood, no-side so this cover looks nicer and helps protect the servo a little from heat and road debris. Third image shows without the cover..

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At some point I'll create some simple aluminum brackets to attach hoses to chassis tubes

[RoadRacer]

Following on from my earlier post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25729-Fuel-pump-for-carb-motor), I've used a mechanical pump on my SBC and it works great; cheap, parts-store-replaceable etc.

BUT my carb bowls are empty every single time I go to start.. presumably a symptom of modern gas evaporating after engine shutoff. With a mechanical pump that means a lot of cranking and accelerator pumping.

Looking on forums like HAMB, many there add a cheap electric primer pump by the tank to prime the carb before starting. Flick the switch, wait a few seconds (if it's like my GT40, you do this until pump noise changes as pressure goes up to 6psi) and then start the engine without looking like a dumbass. Saves your battery and starter motor too. Then after start I'll turn off the pump (although might be a nice backup for high speed runs)

So I'm getting a summit pump and looking at the ron francis wiring I ignored before. Found the pump end wiring, but at the other end.. nothing of course. I need to add the switch. On first glance it looks like the light brown wire, so I'll trace that down and cut into it. I may even add the switch between the seats, where my battery cutoff switch is too, rather than the dash.

UPDATE: After getting to know all the wiring, relay, inertia switch etc I decided to add my new switch into the ground wire of the inertia switch, i.e. before the relay. I could have used a low amperage switch, but I have 20A switches anyway so I could have broken into the power wire but in the end wanted it in dash next to ignition key.

[RoadRacer]

After wiring in the switch for electric fuel pump I finally fitted the battery cutoff switch between the seats, and the remote battery jumper posts in the trunk in the middle next to the fuel tank. Although you can't see final fit in this photo, you can see how it all went together.

The battery cutoff won't be used when car running, just as a safety when working on car..

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[RoadRacer]

Had the fuel tank out today and added my new summit fuel pump and moved the fuel filter. All back together now and wired up so I started the car hopefully for the last time using starter fluid - next time I'm hoping the pump will prime the carb and the car will start straight up.

Time will tell..

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[RoadRacer]

More on the fuel system.. I've added a fuel pressure gauge and regulator just for peace of mind more than anything; I didn't like not knowing the data! Without the regulator my electric primer pump was showing 11psi (it's a 4-7psi pump!) and my mechanical was showing crazy madness between 3-11psi.. mechanical are I guess "pulsing' pumps so the gauge was unreadable. So with the regulator OOTB it's supposed to be set for 6.5psi, and that's exactly what it reads on the mechanical. so that's good.

I made up a little bracket from aluminum to attach the regulator to the intake manifold.

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As far as the original problem I was trying to solve - engine wouldn't start for 30s after being left for a day or two - this all did the trick, with one slight twist. I'm not sure why, but the weird carb I got with the engine (an edelbrock/weber mech secondary) needs choke to start, even in 90+deg weather!

Yep, I tried everything to start this, but unlike a holley there are no (visible) accelerator pump squirters when you pump the gas on a full carb. So, it just won't start with just pumping and turning. But pull out the (now mechanical) choke and it starts within 2 seconds every time... and you can (must) push in the choke immediately. Idles and runs perfectly once started.

So I don't know why the choke thing, but whatever, doesn't matter to me. It's super reliable and fast to start now.

Next, I bled the brakes.. man I wish I'd done this earlier. Seems many put this off like I did, and guess which was the only joint to leak.. the 3 way block under the front shocks which is almost impossible to get at. I managed to get at it just enough from under the car.

The bleeding I did with the vacuum trick I read here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27644-Brake-bleed-empty-lines-with-a-shop-vac-how-to&highlight=vacuum+bleed), sucking fluid through to the caliper, then did the traditional dad/son bleeding to finish it off. The rears were surprisingly easy and had little air, but the front took a good pint through before going solid. I measured the MC rods and they move about .370 from relaxed to full-on and the pedal (with currently centered balance bar) moves about 1.5" until firm, with another 1" or so if you really get on it. Don't have a driveway here so I'll have to trailer it somewhere to set the brakes up further.

(Btw, I'm using stock brakes from kit and GT rear, with the stock .62 rear, .75 front MC)

Here's the son doing the grunt work on the pedal :)

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[erlihemi]

Are the fuel bowls still empty after it sets and you have to have the pump prime to refill? They either are evaporating out the bowl vents or leaking out the bottom. You don't want that fuel running down a port and washing off the lubrication on one cylinder all the time. The choke was helping you vacuum fill the bowls? Might want to check how rich it idles.

[RoadRacer]

Are the fuel bowls still empty after it sets and you have to have the pump prime to refill? They either are evaporating out the bowl vents or leaking out the bottom. You don't want that fuel running down a port and washing off the lubrication on one cylinder all the time. The choke was helping you vacuum fill the bowls? Might want to check how rich it idles.

With this carb it's hard to tell if the bowls are empty.. but I'm assuming they are evaporating empty. When I prime with pump it takes a few seconds to go from 0-6 psi. Before I did the priming, I couldn't get it to start for 30+s seconds (the mechanical pump). I'll check mixture, thanks..

[RoadRacer]

Been a while.. vacation in UK and Italy, then came back to find I'd been laid off! So, back on the job hunt again, but have some interviews lined up next week.

I don't have much to do until I can buy transmission package from Forte, or stage 2 from FFR, and those are on hold until new job is found, but I did want to do a rough front-end alignment, so I did that this morning.. very rough :D

Centered the steering ball joints, then wound in/out the steering arms, and adjusted the rear LCA to get rough camber. Haven't touched the front LCA cos I'm not sure what to use that for - caster perhaps, but not convinced. Anyway, camber and toe are now close enough for go-kart.

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[TxMike64]

That sucks... best of luck on the job search!

[TDSapp]

Been a while.. vacation in UK and Italy, then came back to find I'd been laid off! So, back on the job hunt again, but have some interviews lined up next week. 87022



I hope they were better than one of the last companies I worked for. I was 4 hours into a two week vacation when I got a phone call that all the photographers had been let go. I was then told that they were not paying my vacation time either. I had saved all my vacation time to take this trip and they left me with nothing.

[RoadRacer]

Thanks Mike, Tim, the job search is already going well luckily - I make sure to keep a big network of connections :) I (basically) manage software developers so it's quite a small world.

They didn't give me any warning - in fact the new CTO said he was very happy with what I was doing right up until the day they let me go haha!. And the next day his long-time friend joined in my place.. shocker :D

I was lucky to get severance this time, so that certainly removed some stress. Being left with no pay while you search sucks - been there too.

[RoadRacer]

Funny, I used to be in here every day - now it's once a week on Saturday morning as a treat! :)

New job, fast-running startup, lots to do at work - and nothing to do in the garage. Stage 1 is done, although I did order the updated fuel tank so I'll have something quick to do to swap that out when it comes. But then I'm waiting on stage 2, and I doubt I'll even order that until 2019. sigh

But before even stage 2 I need to order transmission to make it go-kart. You either have loads of time or loads of money, but right now I have neither! BRB

[Tim Whittaker]

ADMIN EDIT: Commercial post removed.

[RoadRacer]

Got my new-style fuel tank. Here are pics comparing old (mine was Mar 17) to the new (I think they came out around Feb-Mar 18?)

Top fill now, so faster to fill, and won't keep shutting off the pump flow. Also the sender is integrated into pickup, on top. The old one was below fuel level and could leak. I ordered this "retro fit 33 tank" from FFR, and it comes with pickup/sender and new aluminum vertical panel. You reuse the vent fittings and all hoses from original kit

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[AJT '33]

Got my new-style fuel tank. Here are pics comparing old (mine was Mar 17) to the new (I think they came out around Feb-Mar 18?)

Top fill now, so faster to fill, and won't keep shutting off the pump flow. Also the sender is integrated into pickup, on top. The old one was below fuel level and could leak. I ordered this "retro fit 33 tank" from FFR, and it comes with pickup/sender and new aluminum vertical panel. You reuse the vent fittings and all hoses from original kit

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Can I ask how much they charged? Even with all the mods I have done I am seriously considering getting this version. THX!

[RoadRacer]

Yeah, I don't think I got a special deal - my order form shows it as "part #34197, 33 FUEL TANK RETROFIT". Cost was $260 + $52.42 freight to San Antonio, Texas.

As I said, it came with everything you need to replace the old tank. New aluminum, new fuel pickup and fuel level sensor, gasket to use fuel filler (now screws direct to tank). Direct bolt-in replacement - even the attachment holes lined up. I had to shorten the fuel line a few inches, that's it.

[rychi1]

Do you also have to modify the aluminum panel that sits behind the fuel tank to accommodate the fuel fill extension?

[RoadRacer]

Do you also have to modify the aluminum panel that sits behind the fuel tank to accommodate the fuel fill extension?

That's the (only) new panel that you get. The one it sits on isn't modified.

[TxMike64]

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Everything about it looks great.... except... It forces you to fill via the trunk. There's no option to place the filler on the exterior of the body. But there have to be compromises sometimes to get a better component.

[RoadRacer]

Everything about it looks great.... except... It forces you to fill via the trunk. There's no option to place the filler on the exterior of the body. But there have to be compromises sometimes to get a better component.

Yep. For me that wasn't a problem.. I'll be using dzus to attach trunk and I like doing the Two Lane Blacktop thing at gas stations ;)

[OnlyAndy]

Good pic and need to ask,,,,,, I will be going SBC W/ TKO600 in my 33' ( Due to me very soon ) also and it looks like you have plenty of room to run the factory style Dist with built in coil. Am I seeing that right???? I will use the small base dist with remote coil if I have too but I want to TRY Not to hang a lot of extras on engine and firewall. Nice job.

[RoadRacer]

Good pic and need to ask,,,,,, I will be going SBC W/ TKO600 in my 33' ( Due to me very soon ) also and it looks like you have plenty of room to run the factory style Dist with built in coil. Am I seeing that right???? I will use the small base dist with remote coil if I have too but I want to TRY Not to hang a lot of extras on engine and firewall. Nice job.

Yeah, there's plenty of room, didn't have to do anything to use that distributor/coil.

[JimLev]

Got my new-style fuel tank. Here are pics comparing old (mine was Mar 17) to the new (I think they came out around Feb-Mar 18?)

Top fill now, so faster to fill, and won't keep shutting off the pump flow. Also the sender is integrated into pickup, on top. The old one was below fuel level and could leak. I ordered this "retro fit 33 tank" from FFR, and it comes with pickup/sender and new aluminum vertical panel. You reuse the vent fittings and all hoses from original kit

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I got a new style tank too, you also need to buy an external fuel pump as the internal pump for the old tank won't work with the new tank.
The new unused parts are starting to pile up.

[RoadRacer]

Yeah Jim, I was lucky that way.. already had two external pumps.

[RoadRacer]

Ha! Found a deal for a hardtop and power window kit that I couldn't resist, so put that on a credit card as my Christmas present. Still waiting for money for stage 2, but just having a roof makes it look better. Man, it already feels smaller inside the cab!!

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[RoadRacer]

Hey Guys, I’m back ;)

It’s been a while since I’ve been here - doing the startup thing and have spent 18 months working hard and not getting paid for it(!) so the hotrod had to be paused. But finally I found some money and just got my new TKO600 and associated parts from Mike Forte so I can get this thing finally driving. Driving without stage 2.. but at least driving round the neighborhood!

I also fitted my fave carb, 650dp, to replace the weird edelbrock that came on my motor and never really worked well.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you all are different people after 18 months, but I’ll start catching up on what’s been going on around here. Good to be back!

[HVACMAN]

Welcome back!!

[RoadRacer]

Thanks! Good to see some familiar faces still here!

[RoadRacer]

Worked on the transmission today and had the usual fun issues. Got the flywheel on ok, then clutch, but one of the lockwashers kept getting caught on one bolt and splayed out befoe hitting the torque. Never seen this before - the lock washer ended straightening out. It was catching on a burr under the bolt. After going through three washers, I replaced with a flat washer and loctite instead.

Then I hit a snag where the 5/8 thread in the Forte-modified fork needed cleaning up but I didn't have a tap that size. Dozens of taps and no 5/8! Local stores didn't help, so off to Amazon and one will be here tomorrow. Fitted the transmission mount and dug out a few more parts I need to do before I can gokart - e.g. accelerator.

Still not sure what shifter I'll want, or which position to choose - leaving it as rear-most position for now.

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[RoadRacer]

Oh what fun car building is :D

So.. next step was bellhousing and fork installation. But the fork needed re-tapping so I did that first. The threw it all together and immediately notice a problem - the clutch was literally depressed just by installing the bellhousing. No air gap. The fork was jammed up against the bellhousing opening, and the release bearing was depressing the clutch. Shorter pivot needed perhaps? Yes, maybe, except it's only 1.75" long now, and I need perhaps an inch shorter. Then there would be other issues with that.

Just as bad, installing all this kit on the 33 means I lose foot room. I have to cut the floor to go around all the brackets and fork. I want to make MORE room with my aluminum trans tunnel, not less!

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Another thing.. running the clutch cable to the fork is a minefield of hot things. The oil filter gets in the way of the optimum cable run. I'd have probably have to wrap the cable in insulation. The whole thing is becoming a mess. I chose cable to keep the build cheap, but this is crazy. And I spent money on cable, optional quadrant pedal, firewall adjuster, forte kit.. I bet I haven't saved any money LOL.

I called Mike Forte and he has no problem taking the brackets, fork, etc back, so I'll do that and undo all my work to this point and install hydraulic. Lesson learned!

What is the preferred hydraulic solution? On my last car I had an internal mccloud, and I'd prefer internal to save on foot room. But I see some have external cylinders on cobras. I suppose they're easier to replace if needed, but is that worth it?

FFR have an SBC manual that suggests "Keisler Hydraulic clutch actuator kit: CAG-HWSRTKO" - at least my 2017 version says that. Any other suggestions? Who's build thread goes through their hydraulic clutch install? I have some spare brake master cylinders, will one of those work? I'll have to disassemble the quadrant pedal and see what I'm missing, and plus the hole in the firewall.

"Kit cars are easy" lol

[tony]

I used modern driveline slave cylinder kit. I originally had installed the cable with clutch fork and the foot pressure was way too much for my liking. ending up keeping the fork and throwout to use this style kit.
https://www.moderndriveline.com/product-category/hydraulic-clutch-kits/slave-cylinders/ford-slave/

[RoadRacer]

I used modern driveline slave cylinder kit. I originally had installed the cable with clutch fork and the foot pressure was way too much for my liking. ending up keeping the fork and throwout to use this style kit.
https://www.moderndriveline.com/product-category/hydraulic-clutch-kits/slave-cylinders/ford-slave/

Thanks Tony. My fork is part of the problem - curious if you have pics though, I'd like to see your setup.

[RoadRacer]

I had a spare .75 master cylinder and reservoir so I removed the quadrant and converted the clutch pedal back to hydraulic and threw those on. Just need to decide on which hydraulic throwout bearing to use.

[sread]

don't know if you resolved this yet, but if possible you may want to use an oem hyd throw out bearing . no personal experience but it sure seems like a lot of complaints about the aftermarket ones being prone to leaking - and you know what that means - trans has to come out. Might want to keep that in mind when installing the trans tunnel as one of the other well known builders, Eric Treves, I think, swears that the trans will only come out thru the top.
I looked at using one of the external slave setups but there just isn't enough room - at least in my case as it sits right where my size 14 is going to be squeezed in.

[RoadRacer]

don't know if you resolved this yet, but if possible you may want to use an oem hyd throw out bearing . no personal experience but it sure seems like a lot of complaints about the aftermarket ones being prone to leaking - and you know what that means - trans has to come out. Might want to keep that in mind when installing the trans tunnel as one of the other well known builders, Eric Treves, I think, swears that the trans will only come out thru the top.
I looked at using one of the external slave setups but there just isn't enough room - at least in my case as it sits right where my size 14 is going to be squeezed in.

Thanks. Mike Forte tried to pursuade me to go for an external one too - but as you say they take up very precious footroom. So I went with his recommendation for an internal one, a RAM 78125HD. It's still in the mail. In the meantime I hope to work on the hard line for the clutch today.

[RoadRacer]

Still having problem fitting my transmission - or more accurately, my clutch. After converting everything to hydraulic internal thrust bearing I still don't have enough space, and I can't figure out why. I didn't have enough space when using the clutch fork and cable too.. so it seems there's a bigger issue with the parts chosen.

I went ahead and took everything apart, down to removing flywheel, so I could measure everything again and take photos.

The ABC measurements are:

A = block bolt surface to crank flange surface = 18.2mm or 0.7165"
C = flywheel bolt surface to release fingers = 84mm or 3.307"
total A+C = 102.2mm or 4.0236"

B = bellhousing block mating surface to fully retracted bearing face = 95.35mm or 3.7539"

So I'm over a 0.25" short, and I need a gap of .15-.2" on top of that, so I think I need a 0.5" bellhousing spacer?? (and then shim the thrust bearing a smidge)

I sent this off to Mike Forte to see if he can see what I did wrong - can anyone else here see the issue?

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[RoadRacer]

These new pics kinda put into perspective - I pushed the assembled flywheel and clutch onto the gearbox, right up so the fingers touched the release bearing.

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You can see there's a small gap between bellhousing face and flywheel - it measures 11.6mm or 0.457"

But the crank to block face measurement is 18.2mm or 0.7165"!! Ignoring the gap we need, the bellhousing is already 0.259" short.

The total length of bellhousing is 159.32mm or 6.272"

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Just FYI, I measured the thrust bearing too - from back face to thrust face is 42.68mm or 1.68".



Mike's on the case.. we'll talk some more on monday.

[RoadRacer]

Crazy how long this all took to find and fix.. but we got there. I have an installed transmission! lol, talk about a comedy of errors.

So, yes, it wasn't me, or Mike Forte.. just all the parts were at their maximum tolerance it seems. No-one, even RAM clutches, could understand why. I had all the right part numbers. So we started measuring them. For example, the flywheel was .2" thicker than the identical part in the warehouse. 200thou seems a little more than a tolerance issue, but there you are. But there are apparently two versions of the thrust bearing - same part number - that are also .2 different in height. Ram said it was a "running improvement" to a part. SAME PART NUMBER. So they sent me the smaller one.

Suddenly my needed .4" seems doable, yes? :) But rather than send the flywheel back (heavy!) I got Mike to send me a .25" spacer between bellhousing and transmission. So I got my needed .45 from a smaller thrust bearing and a spacer in the end.

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Then I spent 2 hours trying to get the transmission on - wiggle wiggle wiggle - only to give up and take it off again. It was then I realized the crappy plastic alignment tool was wiggly AF, not a precision tool at all, and was not good enough. So I bought a machined steel alignment tool (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YZT8FD4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1):

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..And then the transmission slid on easily. I wish I hadn't trusted that plastic tool that came with the clutch, such a time waster. Still, now I have another tool. :D

Lastly, for my sanity, I peered inside to make sure I had the requisite gap between clutch and bearing - you can zoom in and see the gap..

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Just because I'm paranoid at this point, I started the engine to really make sure everything was as it should be, half expecting a big bang and a pile of parts to fall out the bellhousing, haha. But no, it all works ;)

[RoadRacer]

Fun and productive weekend in the garage. I had to remove the gearbox (!) when I realized that the flex line from the thrust bearing was way too long, so I got a 10" one from summit and fitted that instead. Attached the hard line to the firewall using a button head bolt on the inside so I won't notice.

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Filled the transmission with Mobil 1 ATF, fitted the driveshaft (what I'd call the propshaft ;) ), and noticed the handbrake cables were a little close to the UJ at full droop so I drilled and fixed a couple of p-clamps to keep them in place. Miles away at ride height of course.

Then I moved to the pedal box/firewall which needed some work. I had a big clutch cable hole to cover up, and a couple of botched holes from moving my reservoirs up, much earlier in the build. So made a patch panel to cover them all up, and sprayed that to match

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I also fitted the throttle pedal and reworked the hoses for clutch and brake reservoirs, using bolts to hold the reservoirs this time rather than rivets - the rivets were never tight enough and the reservoirs wouldn't stay lined up. Drove me crazy, so I'm glad I'm fixing that! Still waiting for the patch-pabel to dry before putting it all together.

Running out of things that'll stop me go-karting this sucker! I suppose I'll have to finally read and try to understand all those pinion angle threads :D

[sread]

That's strange - I am installing the TKO to the back of an LS but the instructions for my hyd throw out bearing specifically state that the bearing must be in constant contact with the fingers of the pressure plate at all times - i.e. no gap...in fact it is required to be compressed by 1/8 to 3/8 inch at rest. Mine came from Silver Sport transmissions and uses a Ram flywheel but the bearing is supposed to be an oem part.

[RoadRacer]

That's strange - I am installing the TKO to the back of an LS but the instructions for my hyd throw out bearing specifically state that the bearing must be in constant contact with the fingers of the pressure plate at all times - i.e. no gap...in fact it is required to be compressed by 1/8 to 3/8 inch at rest. Mine came from Silver Sport transmissions and uses a Ram flywheel but the bearing is supposed to be an oem part.

Wow, ok, so it must not be the same across the board. Fascinating! Did you get a sheet that looked like this? This is what I got with the clutch and specifically shows space required, and how to calcucate it.

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P.S. Even more weird, because "compressed fingers" to me means "clutch is disengaging". But oh well!!

[sread]

They give you a diagram similar and require the same measurements but want different dimensions. and the way I understand it is the slave cyl (throw out bearing) will be slightly compressed but not the pressure plate fingers.

[RoadRacer]

I have to say, this is one of my favorite parts of the build - buying and adding the shift knob! So tactile. 2" from Summit fits so good in your hand. Loving the gear stick I picked too. I spent a while sitting and measuring what height/layback to get.

Such a silly thing - a gear knob - but I'm excited to use it! Did you all get something classic like this, or fancier in some way?

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[AJT '33]

I have to say, this is one of my favorite parts of the build - buying and adding the shift knob! So tactile. 2" from Summit fits so good in your hand. Loving the gear stick I picked too. I spent a while sitting and measuring what height/layback to get.

Such a silly thing - a gear knob - but I'm excited to use it! Did you all get something classic like this, or fancier in some way?

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Not a silly thing, I spent dead time figuring out the look I wanted then found by accident a company that makes one off and custom knobs, found one I liked and integrated it into my hand built shifter, turned out great, it was what I used to complete the rest!
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[RoadRacer]

Ha, Thanks AJT - well your build is something amazing and different again. So much attention to the little things!

[RoadRacer]

Finally got the reservoirs reworked and finished plumbing the clutch. Reverse bled clutch until no air left but it’s tricky to bleed since the bleed line leaks everywhere when you undo the bleed screw. Did I use enough “bleed” yet?

Anyway I guess there’s still air somewhere coz I jacked up the rear and jumped in to see if I can finally drive this thing.. the clutch pedal seemed awful easy even by hand but I can see the thrust bearing moving so progress.. but the clutch isn’t fully disengaging. I did see the rear wheels moving though. ;)

[peterh226]

Finally got the reservoirs reworked and finished plumbing the clutch. Reverse bled clutch until no air left but it’s tricky to bleed since the bleed line leaks everywhere when you undo the bleed screw. Did I use enough “bleed” yet?

Anyway I guess there’s still air somewhere coz I jacked up the rear and jumped in to see if I can finally drive this thing.. the clutch pedal seemed awful easy even by hand but I can see the thrust bearing moving so progress.. but the clutch isn’t fully disengaging. I did see the rear wheels moving though. ;)

Submerge the end in fluid while you push the pedal. Then at least close while still submerged. That was what we did at build school and it worked great.

[RoadRacer]

Submerge the end in fluid while you push the pedal. Then at least close while still submerged. That was what we did at build school and it worked great.

Thanks Peter, yep I'll try the traditional bleed technique and hopefully get better results. I'll have to rope the wife in..

[RoadRacer]

It moves!! Finally. It’s been two years since I started the motor.. hard to believe. But my startup put a serious pause on the project and then the transmission gave me a few months of problems. But here we are and it feels good!


https://youtu.be/Lfg1L-FBNQU

[JOP33]

Awesome & congrats!

[Straversi]

Congratulations. Sounds fantastic.
-Steve

[TxMike64]

Outstanding! Sounds great!
Let me know hen you're ready for visitors!

-Mike

[RoadRacer]

Outstanding! Sounds great!
Let me know hen you're ready for visitors!

-Mike

I would say "anytime!".. but of course we're not allowed to :) But soon!

[RoadRacer]

Now I'm gokarting, I really don't like my choice of steering wheel (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27052-Show-us-your-steering-wheels), so I ordered a more racey one with a thick suede rim. Also a quick release adapter. I'll post pics when they come and show how they work.

In other news, I finally placed my order for stage 2! I can't believe it's been 3 years since getting my stage 1. Bloody startups! Of course, I have no idea how COVID is affecting kit builds and deliveries nowadays.. could be months until I get it. :D

[FF33rod]

Great news! I wonder what they're sending since you have a gen1 chassis....

[RoadRacer]

Great news! I wonder what they're sending since you have a gen1 chassis....

I asked - he said that they can still make it work with some substitutions: "we do have retrofit parts that will go with the current stage 2 kits"

But, yeah, will be interesting how many improvements I'll be getting from what is shown in my 2R manual :D

[RoadRacer]

Got the new Jegs Quick Release Hub (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60724/10002/-1) for my new wheel, it just bolts onto the ididit/gm column. I'll see how the Jegs steering wheel (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/70438/10002/-1) horn button will integrate when that gets here - for now I just removed the white plastic part to get this slid on for testing.

On the good side, no welding required. On the bad side.. I need to make up a cover for the internals of the column. But it works!

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[RoadRacer]

I got my stage 2 date - 7/11! What is that, 8 weeks? :D

[RoadRacer]

Ah, interestingly.. on the order they have added two new items to solve something with gen1/gen2 incompatibility (gen1 stage 1, gen2 stage 2) - anyone know what this means, and if there's a thread about this? Couldn't find one..

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[wallace18]

The frames are very different. These panels will hide the gaps for you.

[FF33rod]

You have a gen 1 frame that does not dip down at the forward part of the door sill. Look like they'll send you a Gen 2 body which does dip down. You will have to cut the "dipped" part of the door sill out and put these parts in it's place to cover the top of the Gen 1 frame....

Steve

[RoadRacer]

Gotcha Steve, thanks. Makes sense.

I have seen the dip, but was expecting more issues around the new door hinging that I remember reading about. I thought the door/chassis attachments were quite different now.

From the an article at the time (https://www.rcnmag.com/news/all-new-gen-2-factory-five-33-hot-rod):


FFR added more curvature to the body by an inch, which reportedly allows better door-hinge construction and window access during assembly. You’ll also find that the new Gen 2 doors are wider by 0.8-inch.

I'm excited, regardless. I'll make it work somehow. :)

If anyone has done this gen2 on gen1 thing I'd love to read about it.

[FF33rod]

FFR replaced both my Gen1 doors with Gen 2 doors. Used all the Gen 1 hardware, hinges, etc and it worked fine. I can say that inside the door, there is no extra room in a Gen 2 door vs Gen 1...

Steve

[RoadRacer]

Today I messed around with some wiring for a change. I adjusted the clutch switch to only allow the starter when clutch sufficiently disengaged, and then I tested the TKO600 wiring to see how their neutral safety wiring worked - it was perfect! It works the same as the loomm needs - it's connected until the gears are starting to touch, then disconnects. So all I had to do was run two more wires up the rear loom and over to the pedal box, and wired it in parallel with the clutch safety.

Now, the starter needs either the clutch in, or the gearbox out of gear. I did consider going for the double safety of needing both, but it didn't make sense to me. Thos way I chose I can still start the car from outside if it's out of gear. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One more thing - I finally tried those new self-solder/heatshrink connectors (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MFNSW37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that I saw advertised. I was skeptical, but they actually worked very well, and better than crimping. Surprising! The solder did indeed melt with a heat gun, and gave a tight good looking connection. I installed my own heatshrink over it too, just in case, but I was happy with them.

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[RoadRacer]

I played with my drive train alignment today for the first time. I just used my iphone as a digital level, so not sure how accurate it is. Used the Tremec app to help me.

To start, I measured the transmission was 0.7^, the driveshaft was 1v and the pinion was 5v.. so I'm way off. I rotated the pinion using the top link (3 link here) to bring it back a few degrees, but was running out of thread on the bar, so I also raised the transmission another inch. That brought me to 1v, 0.5^, 1.5v for the measurements which seems close enough. The UJ angles are 1.5 and 2 (goal is 2 i believe), and the front/rear are .5 out of alignment. Does this look good to you, or did I miss something?

A few things though..

1. not sure of the accuracy of the phone, but I suppose I'm only caring about relative angles so shouldnt matter
2. rotating the pinion those few degrees brought the shock very close to touching the bracket, so I may need to use the holesaw trick. I hadn't heard of that when I installed my rear. realizing that the rear will twist even more under power, so yeah, I need to make some clearance.
3. it also made the top link wind out a bunch on the thread, not sure what I need to do here. I'll see how much is still engaged
4. I need to make up a new spacer for the transmission - and it's now quite high up and close to the top of the hoops, not the floor! I am running 4" and 3.5" ride height admittedly.. I may have to raise that, don't want the driveshaft hitting the rear hoop under compression.

[RoadRacer]

Ok this makes more sense.. I raised the rear up an inch (it was at lowest point on shock), to make rear chassis 5.2" ish ride height.

Suddenly this changed many things. I can shorten the top link.. engaging more thread. I can remove some spacer from transmission, making it more sane. And the driveshaft is now centered vertically in both front and rear hoop.

The angles for now are even closer front-rear, within .2 now, but the UJ angles did increase a little to 2.5 both ends, but still under 3 which I think is the guideline. It all "fits" much better now though.

Moral of the story (duh) set your rideheight first. To be fair, I do want it as low as possible, but it's also nice to have a rake on these. I'll make final decision when I get the body.

[RoadRacer]

Got the new Jegs Quick Release Hub (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60724/10002/-1) for my new wheel, it just bolts onto the ididit/gm column. I'll see how the Jegs steering wheel (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/70438/10002/-1) horn button will integrate when that gets here - for now I just removed the white plastic part to get this slid on for testing.

On the good side, no welding required. On the bad side.. I need to make up a cover for the internals of the column. But it works!

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So I found this awesome cover (https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=129959). A 1/4" smaller than the 4" column so it stretches to fit,and stays on smooth. Compare the before pics above to these.. terrible pics but you get the idea.

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[RoadRacer]

Waiting on stage 2, and can't drive cos I'm waiting for my new steering wheel, so I thought I'd plan the floor/tunnel. I always wanted to copy Tim Collins' trans tunnel idea to maximize the foot room, so now my TKO600 is in I can work on this.

Tim's dimensions didn't quite match mine, I assume because of coyote vs SBC, so I sat in car and played with how the cupholders will work, in relation to the gearstick, and how high I want the elbow pad to be.

I also ordered some Dorman 41001 rubber cup inserts (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WLXRGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to make these stainless 3.5" cupholders much more effective at gripping various size cups.

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That's where the cupholders will be, at that height and location, sitting in the new higher aluminum tunnel. There will be a 12" high elbow rest behind them, and I'll build a complete new tunnel going forward.

I also played with the handbrake to move it closer to the new tunnel, by turning around the brackets - moved it a good couple inches inboard and it still works well. Some 6061T6 should be delivered here on Monday to start building it up.

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[RoadRacer]

I received my new steering wheel today - had to swap from the Jegs one to this Grant 8548 (https://www.jegs.com/i/Grant/470/8548/10002/-1) because the Jegs was back ordered for another month (already waited a month!). The grant one was $30 more, but probably better quality.

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Anyway, I like it. Much fatter and more comfortable, and more in keeping with the look I want now. I just need to fill the hole with another cap of some kind but I'm getting good at finding weird cap thingies.

So there you go, a racing wheel with disconnect and no welding on a hotrod! Happy happy :D

[RoadRacer]

Quick drive around neighborhood. Had wrong SD card in so only first 2 minutes captured - and the gopro sounds weird when I lift-off.. not a fan of this crunchy sound it records! Didn't sound like that in real life. Cars driving nicely so far, getting lightly into third. Taking it easy with the throttle until I can find more room!


https://youtu.be/2-GOKbOKoJw

[TxMike64]

Sounds pretty good! My son was laughing at your "seat"!

[JimLev]

Sounded pretty good to me too.
That removable (while your driving) steering wheel was pretty cool too.

[RoadRacer]

Sounds pretty good! My son was laughing at your "seat"!

Yeah until stage 2 gets here next month it's 3 garden cushions and my mechanics pad :D - can't wait for seat belts too, feels VERY weird sliding around in there!

[RoadRacer]

w00t!! Seems like my stage 2 is going to be on the Texas run from Stewart for the week of July 6th!!

Apparently 2 more 33's getting parts in Austin that same trip - one apparently <20 miles from me according to Todd. I told him to give them my details in case they want to get in touch.

I can't wait to have seats, belts, exhaust - luxuries!! Oh and a body will be nice so I can actually see what one of these looks like in real life. :D

So I'll be finished by what, August? LOL

[RoadRacer]

Feels like Christmas. I can't think of much else except stage 2 coming in a week. SO EXCITED!

BTW, it wasn't two more 33's - Todd was wrong - but two more Roadsters coming into town. Todd introduced us and we're already chatting. Welcome to the club Steven, Eli, Rob :D *waves*

[RoadRacer]

Just saying.. :D

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[fostia]

Sweet. Now you can have all the fun the rest of us are having with the doors and trunk. And itch countless nights on end. Be one with the fiberglass! Been a long time coming as I remember we got our kits roughly the same time. I bet you are stoked.

[RoadRacer]

Sweet. Now you can have all the fun the rest of us are having with the doors and trunk. And itch countless nights on end. Be one with the fiberglass! Been a long time coming as I remember we got our kits roughly the same time. I bet you are stoked.

Yeah, I am excited to get into this next stage - ah the naivety of the unexperienced!

I was kinda surprised how little comes in stage 2. Yeah, I've been waiting for exhaust, seats, belts... and there's not much more except literally the body. And the body is.. minimal! I didn't realize I'd be able to carry it around.

I'm not sure I'll do any finishing though.. even the part lines. Previous cars I've put together and driven for a good year to shakedown before any kind of finishing. But we'll see!

[1932]

I am in the build and drive school, change things- fix cracks- add this or that, then paint.

[RoadRacer]

Stage 2 begins!

I wanted to put the body and top on to see how it all looks - remember I haven't seen my car with clothes on before - so I chopped off the new shape door opening to let the body sit down on mt Gen 1 chassis.

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There's no documentation, so I'm just winging it :D I have a piece of aluminum that fits perfectly on the outside of the chassis to fill this hole. A quick measure and the body already seems a perfect fit 45.5". I had no idea if my wheels would fit, but they do - loads of gap between body and tire.

The top is one I bought secondhand, hence there's some work by previous owner that I'll have to undo - I'll be permanently bonding it.

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[RoadRacer]

I also test-fitted the drivers side exhaust - and it went on perfectly. Everything just fit. And quite differently to my 2R manual - so they've made good changes since Gen1. The brackets and hangers were nicely improved. I'll test-fit the passenger side tomorrow and then wrap everything before final fit.

131621

[RoadRacer]

Well I just did something super-dumb.. but I'll tell you so you don't make the same mistake :D

Punchline: I connected my battery backwards and tried to start the car!

All that happened was that the starter made some whirring sounds but didn't engage.. strange, I thought, since it's been shimmed and been super reliable! Except of course it was going backwards..

It was only 10-15 seconds before I stopped trying, disconnected the battery again and went exploring. Something made me think it wasn't the starter, so I'm googling and thinking what could it be? Someone said the battery may not have enough juice to engage, and I hadn't given the solonoid a tap yet (!), so I go back outside.. to test the battery (it's a junker, and I have no alternator yet).

And of course as soon as I looked at the battery my heart sank. Red to -. Gulp.

How? Well, I'd removed the battery that was sitting on the floor, so I could install the exhaust. And the red cable that was tie-wrapped to the battery handle had slipped to the other end.. next to the earth terminal. Yep, dumb. I immediately painted one terminal red :D

Any who.. no computer on this SBC car, no fuses blown, so I may have got away with it? Not so fast.. there's no spark anymore.

I have a (wonderful) DUI distributor, so I guess I killed my ignition module inside. We'll see.

[1932]

I can't count all the ---- things that have been done, and some have been $$.

[RoadRacer]

Got the replacement ignition module and that has my car running perfectly again. It's so reliable using the DUI distributor/coil.

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With it running I could finally hear what the complete exhaust system sounds like - much nicer than open headers :D A nice sound! Almost immediately I took it all apart to wrap everything, so I'm looking forward to finishing that and getting some time around the neighborhood to get used to the new sound.

I wrapped the two pipes in the 'lava rock' wrap, and the mufflers in 2 layers of the Design Engineering insulation (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079S77L1J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so we'll see how effective that is. Then I plan to put Dynamat Extreme and Dynamat Dynapad on top of the aluminum floor.

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I couldn't finish and put the exhaust back on the car as the stainless tie wraps I bought sucked - I wasn't paying attention and bought 3/16" tiewraps which don't have the strength. So I returned them and bought 5/16" tie wraps which are coming soon.

[TxMike64]

Are the LiveWires fabric sheathed for the entire length? I've been considering those wires as they have the ends I need (using EDIS coilpacks on my 5.0) and they're available in several colors. If I could get them sheathed that will be what I get.

[RoadRacer]

Are the LiveWires fabric sheathed for the entire length? I've been considering those wires as they have the ends I need (using EDIS coilpacks on my 5.0) and they're available in several colors. If I could get them sheathed that will be what I get.

Yeah, they come like that (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/DUI-C9051BK) - no assembly required - fully sheathed and numbered, and the perfect length I'm very impressed with them.

[RoadRacer]

Quick update on last weekend - final wrap and fitting of my exhaust system.

Because I had double wrapped the muffler, including the ends, I wanted to create some aluminum pieces to cover up and secure the ends from unwrapping. That aluminum was then held in place by stainless tie-wraps, lengthways.

I also made up two simple brackets to bolt the gen2 system up.

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Now it's installed I'm also going to wrap the joints in that DEI insulation - won't be as pretty by I'm looking for effective :D

By the way, I tested but I couldn't find my temperature gun so I did it with my hand. The muffler went from "holy cra*p, sear a steak on that" to "hot but I can touch it with my palm". :p So I'll leave the rest to the dynamat extreme + dynapad on top of the floor.

[FF33rod]

Really, you can touch the outside of that wrapped muffler after it's been running awhile? I've double wrapped mine and I can barely touch the floor for more than a second or two never mind the muffler itself!

Steve

[RoadRacer]

Really, you can touch the outside of that wrapped muffler after it's been running awhile? I've double wrapped mine and I can barely touch the floor for more than a second or two never mind the muffler itself!

Steve

Well, yeah, I wasn't holding my hand on it, but it wasn't scary to touch. Not like the unwrapped one was :D I'll have to find my temp gun.

[RoadRacer]

Started to fit the body today. I had issues around the firewall where the 'glass return was holding the body too far away from the chassis so I measured and cut a new line along the 'glass firewall return so it pulls in much closer. Will tweak it one more time, but much better now.

Getting the rear to sit in the right place was next, so the measure meant was perfect but the fuel line was in the way of the body, so I'll have to do the same as Peter Heath mentioned on FB and redrill the fuel pickup turned like 20deg to move the fuel line out the way. I already mocked this up and now the fuel line fits behind the body and waterfall.

I focused on 3 areas to set the height - where the body touches the chassis just in front of rear wheels..

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..where the chassis touches chassis at bottom of firewall..

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..and that the inner door lip sat flush on top of the chassis.

All those are perfectly lined up, and the body is about where I expected - although maybe a little close to tire so I may need to raise my rideheight (a lot of weight still not in car). But since the chassis matches/lined up with body I think this is a good starting point.

One 'niggle' is that the firewall and the front of body seem to be at very slightly different angles.. the firewall is leaned forward 1/8" compared with the body. I don't have clamps long enough to properly clamp that area, so they may just pull in given a little pressure!

So here's a question: In the picture below there will be fixings attaching the body along the inner door openings, and top of firewall (arrows), but I don't see anywhere in the main area shown where the body is attached? I must be missing something, this whole area can't just rely on the door to hold it in place?

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By the way, it was a surprise to read all about the waterfall fittings around the hinges.. and then find that the waterfall I got doesn't even go around the corner near the hinges. It's totally different shape.

[FF33rod]

Correct, nothing holding that part of the body to the frame, just door sill area and the firewall. Ends up fairly solid actually

Steve

[sethmark]

I fabricated two small brackets to pull the pontoons into the frame. I didn’t care for the fluffiness of it all once I started driving the car. Now mind you, I’m not running a hood or sides which probably makes a difference.

[RoadRacer]

I fabricated two small brackets to pull the pontoons into the frame. I didn’t care for the fluffiness of it all once I started driving the car. Now mind you, I’m not running a hood or sides which probably makes a difference.

Was thinking exactly the same, thanks Seth. Without sides etc I figured the wind will be howling around there at 80-90mph

[RoadRacer]

Here's the fix I made to the fuel pickup to rotate it and let it clear the body and waterfall.

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and how the body sits today, just recording for later reference. It may change once I test fit doors/top/trunk.

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Next step is to fit the outer chassis aluminum that I was sent to fill the gap on the Gen1/Gen2 combo.

[peterh226]

I trimmed the body around the frame so it would not rub. Either it's attached to the chassis/firewall or there is clearance to not rub. I attached the vertical wall in the door area (Your arrow) to the frame. I'm running full fenders and hood sides so all of that stuff is just hooked together. If the need to, I guess I can add a spacer at the attachment point on the frame and push out the door opening if needed. So far, I'm not at a point where I'm quite that picky. There is really no load on the body in that area anyway. The door closure pin is another contact point where I've got the body locked to the chassis. So, is only the area below the door latch that is no fully locked down. But it's pretty solid anyway and I'm not worrying about it at this point.

[fostia]

For your fuel line fitment, I just cut a rectangle in that body flange. The waterfall butts up against it so you would never see it. Also, before I got my Boyd tank, I bonded some clickbond studs to the fuel tank so I could use some p-clamps keep the fuel lines from rubbing against that edge. Best place for clickbonds is from the flight shop. They are a bit pricey but open up mounting options that you wouldn't normally have. And they are pretty rock solid. Just some thoughts for access and keep things neat and routed nicely.

[RoadRacer]

I bonded some clickbond studs to the fuel tank so I could use some p-clamps keep the fuel lines from rubbing against that edge. Best place for clickbonds is from the flight shop. They are a bit pricey but open up mounting options that you wouldn't normally have. And they are pretty rock solid. Just some thoughts for access and keep things neat and routed nicely.

wow, thanks for that - I've never seen those before, no idea how I missed that. They look very handy!

[RoadRacer]

Holy crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns6EB8idnpQ

[cob427sc]

WOW. Never knew these existed. I could have used lots of these over the years on various projects.

[j33ptj]

WOW!! no more nutserts!!

Very intesting product, trying to find a provider to private persons will be interesting....

[bldr.rob]

Ok, that is awesome!!

[fostia]

WOW!! no more nutserts!!

Very intesting product, trying to find a provider to private persons will be interesting....

The company I work for makes composite aircraft so they use these clickbonds all over the place. Since I really like the concept of them but can't take any from work, I've found this company that sells them individually: https://www.theflightshop.com/

This is by far the best place I've found to get them. You can order small quantities. Let me just reiterate, they are NOT cheap. But if you have a couple select locations that nothing else will work, I think it's worth the splurge. Like bonding a stud to a gastank or a strategically located p-clamp for a wire or e-brake cable so it doesn't rub. I've used a couple them on my gas tank and e-brake cable routing (on my rear diff because I didn't want to weld on it).

[RoadRacer]

The company I work for makes composite aircraft so they use these clickbonds all over the place on the aircraft. Since I really like the concept of them but can't take any from work, I've found this company that sells them individually: https://www.theflightshop.com/

This is by far the best place I've found to get them. You can order small quantities. A bit pricey, but they are awesome for certain circumstances you need. Like bonding a stud to a gastank or a strategically located p-clamp for a wire or e-brake cable so it doesn't rub. I've used them on my gas tank and e-brake cable routing (on my rear diff because I didn't want to weld on it).

These responses to your casual comment at least made me feel better about not knowing about these things! I can see so many options - fitting wiper motor to hardtop for example. I really don't like the idea of nutserts in 'glass (seems no one does). And your p-clip idea would work where you can't pop a rivet.

What other aerospace tricks/tools are you sitting on? :D

[fostia]

These responses to your casual comment at least made me feel better about not knowing about these things! I can see so many options - fitting wiper motor to hardtop for example. I really don't like the idea of nutserts in 'glass (seems no one does). And your p-clip idea would work where you can't pop a rivet.

What other aerospace tricks/tools are you sitting on? :D

Hmmmm, other aerospace tips and tricks? Only other things I've really learned is how to have a project double in cost and take twice as long. A concept I've really taken home and applied to the kit car project. Thats about all I got, I'm a one trick pony, clickbonds is it.

[progmgr1]

Hmmmm, other aerospace tips and tricks? Only other things I've really learned is how to have a project double in cost and take twice as long. A concept I've really taken home and applied to the kit car project. Thats about all I got, I'm a one trick pony, clickbonds is it.

If schedule and budget only double then things have really changed since I was in aerospace. Triple is more likely (based on my Hot Rod build at least). Also you forgot to mention the constant "need" for more, increasingly expensive, tools. However, the Clickbonds is a great tip - wish I had known about them when I was building satellite systems! Another source is Aircraft Spruce (www.aircraftspruce.com) - which is also my preferred source for fiberglass resins, cloth, etc. Keith HR #894

[RoadRacer]

I'm total crap at videos - I forgot AGAIN to take it in landscape mode. But super excited to get this new toy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxzpSJQ7mYk

[RoadRacer]

Last weekend (and maybe the weekend before too!) I final fitted the floor, rear bulkhead and outer Gen2 'cover-up' panels that I need cos of my Gen1 chassis. That's a lot of drilling and riveting :D

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So this morning I wanted to fit seats with the new Breeze tilted bracket, and modify for the submarine belt (which means modding breeze stuff a little), so I took a lot of pics of the process in case it helps someone.

To start, I sat in seat and figured where I needed the sub belt - turns out to line up with this bar perfectly so I drilled a 3/8 hole through it.

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Next I lined up and clamped the tilted bracket from Breeze, marked the holes through the rivnuts..

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..and drilled them.

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Bolted through the rivnuts..

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..and offered up the hardboard cushion support and drilled through to the frame.

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Next I marked where the sub belt is bolted on so I can cut a hole.

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This shows the relationship of the hardboard to the cushion - the hardboard goes inside the leather, and supports the foam.

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After cutting a hole, I bolted up the sub belt

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[RoadRacer]

Next I marked in chalk where the seat needed cutting, and cut from outside in, not going all the way out to the lines - the leather stretched when I put in the fittings

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Cut through first layer of foam with box cutter, then thick white foam with a very sharp kitchen knife, from the top.

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Slotted in the sub belt fittings, they push fit.

https://blackrhinoperformance.com/shop/seats-belts/black-rhino-harness-inserts/

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After putting the seat in the car and lining it up with pedals, equally spaced side-to-side, I marked where the bracket was on floor, then removed it from the seat and drilled all the holes.

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I riveted the base with just 3 rivets (cos gonna come out again), and bolted up the seat

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Riveted in the hardboard, then put the seat cushion back in place. Fitted all the seat belts and gave it a trial fit! First time I've had a seat and belts, and it feels great! Good reach to steering wheel and gear shift.

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[fostia]

Next I marked in chalk where the seat needed cutting, and cut from outside in, not going all the way out to the lines - the leather stretched when I put in the fittings

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Cut through first layer of foam with box cutter, then thick white foam with a very sharp kitchen knife, from the top.

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Slotted in the sub belt fittings, they push fit.

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After putting the seat in the car and lining it up with pedals, equally spaced side-to-side, I marked where the bracket was on floor, then removed it from the seat and drilled all the holes.

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I riveted the base with just 3 rivets (cos gonna come out again), and bolted up the seat

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Riveted in the hardboard, then put the seat cushion back in place. Fitted all the seat belts and gave it a trial fit! First time I've had a seat and belts, and it feels great! Good reach to steering wheel and gear shift.

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Nice! I may have to get one of those breeze contraptions. Sometimes the seat squishes too much and the seat belt through hole thing bottoms out.

[RoadRacer]

One interesting thing about sitting in seats with belts.. now I need to rethink where the switches are going to be because no way I'm reaching the dash with the belts on!! Everything needs to be a lot closer :D

[FF33rod]

One interesting thing about sitting in seats with belts.. now I need to rethink where the switches are going to be because no way I'm reaching the dash with the belts on!! Everything needs to be a lot closer :D

I found out early on that I can't reach the emergency brake either with the belt on! Kinda dumb having to release the emergency brake before strapping in...

Steve

[RoadRacer]

I found out early on that I can't reach the emergency brake either with the belt on! Kinda dumb having to release the emergency brake before strapping in...

Steve

Hmmm, ebrake is next on my list so that'll be interesting!

[HVACMAN]

One interesting thing about sitting in seats with belts.. now I need to rethink where the switches are going to be because no way I'm reaching the dash with the belts on!! Everything needs to be a lot closer :D

I placed all mine on the console. 135060

[j33ptj]

One interesting thing about sitting in seats with belts.. now I need to rethink where the switches are going to be because no way I'm reaching the dash with the belts on!! Everything needs to be a lot closer :D

Maybe retractable three point belt would be better....

[fostia]

I found out early on that I can't reach the emergency brake either with the belt on! Kinda dumb having to release the emergency brake before strapping in...

Steve

I can't either. One of my biggest worries as my real brakes haven't felt 100% right. I like the 5 point so immtrying to figure out how to make a reach attachment that doesnt look terrible....

[RoadRacer]

I’m at work so can’t check but can’t we just put handbrake on other side by my legs? I thought chassis was symmetrical here..

[bldr.rob]

James - it's really coming together great! Love the seat belt mod! Might have to look into that for the roadster.

[FF33rod]

Maybe but I think it would be quite annoying on the right leg. Remember the footbox isn't roomy so the gas pedal can't be pushed left, too close to the brake already...

[RoadRacer]

Maybe but I think it would be quite annoying on the right leg. Remember the footbox isn't roomy so the gas pedal can't be pushed left, too close to the brake already...

Haha there’s room for it on the left (and it’s under your leg which is bent), but you still can’t reach it there either! It has to be up on center console to be useful while wearing belt.

[RoadRacer]

I moved the handbrake up onto the console. Seems that it'll work just fine up there, and is right where you want it. I'll shorten the cable abut a foot and tidy up the fitting to make it smaller (always seemed clumsy the factory option) - ordered some crimps and thimbles (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07785Q2KT/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

The front bolt goes through steel hoop, and the rear will be reinforced when I add the aluminum angle to build the higher level of the console with glovebox and cupholders, etc. I'll just build it around the handbrake now.

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Has anyone else done this?

[RoadRacer]

I expected to hate the transmission tunnel after hearing stories of bad fitment and cramped footwells, but perhaps Gen2 'glass has improved here too - the driver's footwell is not symmetrical and has 2+ inches space to the right of the throttle pedal. Which looks perfect for me - I like my foot to rest against that wall. And it fits great against the firewall and chassis. I cut a couple inches out the width to pull the passenger side in a little too, and just leave enough to rivet to the aluminum.

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It was way too long though.. look where the pen is. This is where the hoop is and the end of the aluminum. I'll have to cut off some of this since it gets in the way of the new handbrake location. No worries though, I'm still building an aluminum console on top of all this.

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[RoadRacer]

I got the crimps and thimbles to shorten the handbrake cable, and I wanted to simplify it a little so I re-tapped a 1/4-20 thread into the rod end and used an eye that I had lying in the parts bin.

This shows old and new:

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For reference, I stripped back 13" of the outer coating on the handbrake cables, then looping it around and cut off the excess which was about 5.5".

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The rear of the handbrake does generate a fair amount of force, so I added some angle-iron to support it rather than aluminum. I wanted an angle here anyway - this will form one edge of the glovebox above it.

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Finally this shows the handbrake fully off and fully on - about half way up the range.

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