Roadracer's #997 build

[progmgr1]

I'm liking the idea of moving the hand brake more and more. I just have to see how I can fit it in with my (planned) center console. Thanks for the inspiration! Keith HR #894

[RoadRacer]

I'm liking the idea of moving the hand brake more and more. I just have to see how I can fit it in with my (planned) center console. Thanks for the inspiration! Keith HR #894

Now that it’s working I’m looking forward to playing around with some cardboard today to see how it works out!

[RoadRacer]

I played around with some cardboard today to see if my plan/hope would work out. I wanted cupholders behind the gearstick, and the glovebox/elbow rest to still be usable with the handbrake in its new position. After mocking this up there are a few changes I'll make, but I'm happy with how it worked out.

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I threw the seat back in to see how it really feels, and I love that the handbrake is now right at hand. The gear stick and cupholders are perfect, and the elbow rest / glove box lid is now 6 inches higher and perfect height.

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One thing I'll change though - now I'm sitting here I noticed that the handbrake is still higher than the cupholders so I have a lot of room to come closer to the handbrake - see below. I'll be moving that whole wall at least and inch over towards the passenger side, giving way more room for the cupholders (and easier to fabricate).

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[Shades]

I really like it up there. Much safer to actually be able to reach it! And I love the notch idea in the console.

[j33ptj]

Looks a bit like my BMW Z1 centre console, except it sits closer to the drive, which makes a lot more sense, especically for hill starts...

[RoadRacer]

I bent up some aluminum sheet to fit around handbrake and create a 'glove box', then started on making the next panel up that contains cupholders and gearstick. I bought a bunch of aluminum angle and strips to strengthen up the corners and edges - I want to be able to lean on it when I'm getting in.

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[junglejim]

Nice work, RR. Looking at the brochures before I ordered my kit, the one thing that I didn't like about the car was the placement of the park brake. I had an inspiration one day at work when I found a leftover wiper motor and gearcase assembly for a caterpillar loader. I'm going to try to use it under the car to pull the cables and operate it with a rocker switch. Not sure if it will produce enough torque for the job, but it would sure help unclutter the inside of the car.

[RoadRacer]

Nice work, RR. Looking at the brochures before I ordered my kit, the one thing that I didn't like about the car was the placement of the park brake. I had an inspiration one day at work when I found a leftover wiper motor and gearcase assembly for a caterpillar loader. I'm going to try to use it under the car to pull the cables and operate it with a rocker switch. Not sure if it will produce enough torque for the job, but it would sure help unclutter the inside of the car.

Sounds a fun project - building your own estopp (think that’s what they’re called). For this car I’m trying to minimize failure points (computers, sensors etc) and keeping everything as manual as I can.. so I discounted estopp for that reason.. when I need a handbrake I REALLY need it. :)

[RoadRacer]

measure thrice, cut once, right?

I was so pleased with this new version of the console (second version of a piece I made yesterday), with returns on the sides. Turned out great even though I couldn't use the brake for any of the bends.

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Hooray! Time to stop for lunch.

And then I realized I had bent everything upside down. So it was all just practice for..the third attempt :D LOL you gotta laugh.

[FF33rod]

Bummer! LOL Third times the charm.

[RoadRacer]

Here's the final front version, with returns bent all around.

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Works great around the handbrake. I can make up the sides next, but I'll wait until body is on again before figuring out the front-most piece that goes up to meet the dash. I've been wiggling my fingers out in front of gear stick with belts on and I think I can reach switches on that part.

[AJT '33]

Here's the final front version, with returns bent all around.

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Works great around the handbrake. I can make up the sides next, but I'll wait until body is on again before figuring out the front-most piece that goes up to meet the dash. I've been wiggling my fingers out in front of gear stick with belts on and I think I can reach switches on that part.

Nice layout, I would suggest you soften the edge as it will dig into the side of your right leg, I know, mine does and wish i had a good 1" radius on it. You will notice it cruising down the highway more than anything.
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135934 Mine, similar but maybe a bit wider than yours

[RoadRacer]

Nice layout, I would suggest you soften the edge as it will dig into the side of your right leg, I know, mine does and wish i had a good 1" radius on it. You will notice it cruising down the highway more than anything.
Mine, similar but maybe a bit wider than yours

Yeah, I understand. I'm expecting that area to be built up a lot, like a big triangle will go there. But I totally get what you're saying, thanks!

[RoadRacer]

Only got a few hours this afternoon in the garage - (out for fish and chips tonight at a local pub - a taste of home!) - but I made up and trial fit the worst of the side panels. I've decided to just chuck the 'glass trans tunnel and run aluminum all the way to the bulkhead. I wanted to minimize the joints, so I had to think hard about how to make the cuts and bends :D

The angle of the sheet under the handbrake matches the angle of the handbrake when off.

The large square is just there until I fit the body and can work out the angle of the sheet up to the dashboard.

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[RoadRacer]

Today I got the body back on in order to create the drivers side panel and finish off the forward part of the console, under the dash.

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I can reach switches on the left side of that upright panel, even fully strapped in, and my leg has a nice flat panel to lean against.

[Shades]

Love it!

[RoadRacer]

Spent the time at the weekend re-wiring some stuff and tidying up.


Ran a new positive battery cable that was a foot longer so it could go a better route
Replaced my temp autostore gauges with the FFR ones, which needed different sensors fitted
Finished off my battery disconnect switch
Moved the earth lead to a side chassis member in trunk - my first choice above fuel tank interfered with body
Removed the heater so I could re-route parts of wiring loom
re-wired distributor wires so they could go through unused fittings in one of the connectors (not really sure why these two wires didn't go through a connector)
Replaced ignition key switch with new Jegs 11001 (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/11001/10002/-1) switch - super simple
Then cut the dashboard to fit gauges in a slightly different layout - the stock layout meant one of the small gauges was hidden behind the steering wheel for me.
Did all the lamp, ground and positive feed wiring on the gauges :D
Went back out in the evening and chose the green lighting option :D


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There were a couple problems.. first the oil pressure sender worked when I first fit it, but later on after all the dash work it doesn't work. No signal coming off the sensor at all.

Also only half the lamps light up, so I'll be looking at the bulbs and checking with voltmeter later.

I also decided to remove the Vintage Air heater controls from the cheesy plastic case, and cut them into my aluminum panel, so I bought a decal set from summit

[RoadRacer]

Two more weekends doing nothing but wiring - I love wiring (seriously)! I love how you can make everything neat and tidy, crimped, soldered, shrinked, tie wrapped, taped and in conduit.

A lot of "final" (ha!) finishing on dashboard, all wired and working. Fitted the headlights which meant final fit of grill. Headlights went together easily although wiring colors have changed again - many threads here have different colors. Still, a 9v battery made it easy to figure out. I didn't want DRL, so simple wiring. Tidied up the wiring underfloor when I connected up the speedo feed and neutral switch on TKO.

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I was amazed at the headlights. In the day that silly little LED looked like nothing. But at night I opened the garage door and the lights lit up every house for 200yds. Pretty amazing. I test-wired the rear lights and they worked the first time too - again very bright LED's!

Moved a lot of wiring around, tucked up behind the heater and worked out how to reduce the rat's nest.. some is attached to the chassis on the right out of the way (but accessible for when I add a wiper in hardtop).

Next I finished up the steering column. I noticed some wobble in the indicator stalk (I'm not using some parts since I swapped to a quick-release setup), so I added a water pump spacer which was perfect fit, and allows me to hold the white plastic perfectly in place. I had a roller bearing in the parts bin to reduce the drag. Works a charm.

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Finally I spent som time playing with designs for the lower switch panel below the dash. Then made it up and test-fitted everything. There will be a lightning charger cable coming up under the phone, and a cigarette lighter hidden away around the passenger side. I used an offroad bicycle phone holder, since they are all aluminum and bolt-on and designed for offroad use so hopefully will work ok in this bumpy environment :D

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Now I can finally finish off the trans tunnel and (I think) that's the last thing before the body goes on.

[JOP33]

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Now I can finally finish off the trans tunnel and (I think) that's the last thing before the body goes on.

Just something to think about and only my opinion (and I will preface by saying I have an Iphone)...what I have found is that with the top off on the car, the cell phone use for music control or navigation is almost impossible. Almost the only time the screen is viewable is when the sun is in front of you. There are many times my phone has shut down because of heat, but mainly the screen is just unviewable. And to be honest there are even times where the screen on my Media Player is extremely difficult to view. For the most part I can manage, but there have been a couple times sneaking in to some of these smaller towns for car shows that I have really needed the Nav (or a map) and I have actually had to stop under a bridge or pull off at a gas station to figure out where I was.

[RoadRacer]

Yes thanks Jamie. Mine will be a full time hardtop (bonded eventually) so hopefully better.

[RoadRacer]

Haven't had many hours this weekend, but I did get a chance to make up the front top and passenger sides of the tunnel. Pretty tricky shapes, but good to get out the way. I also cut out the side panel and will make that easily removable (either dzus or screws) so I can get at the wires from the side.

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[RoadRacer]

hey all, what do you think of my idea of using fender welting (not sure if that's the American word) under my aluminum transmission cover, rather than silicone? My thoughts were that I could get a watertight seal using this (perhaps still silicone on one side of the welting), but make the tunnel more easily removable if needed. I'd still rivet.

E.g. this one: Pickup Truck Fender Welting (https://www.amazon.com/MACs-Auto-Parts-48-21518-Welting/dp/B017C5SD0Y/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=welting+fender&qid=1604964304&sr=8-2)

[RoadRacer]

Had a couple of hours this afternoon (we have Veteran's Day off) so I made the simple sloped panel under the handbrake.

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[33fromSD]

Had a couple of hours this afternoon (we have Veteran's Day off) so I made the simple sloped panel under the handbrake.

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The man has skills....love all the aluminum work you're doing!!

[RoadRacer]

The man has skills....love all the aluminum work you're doing!!

I just wish I could weld.. would be so much cooler

[33fromSD]

I just wish I could weld.. would be so much cooler

Never too late to learn..... welding isn't that bad...

[RoadRacer]

Never too late to learn..... welding isn't that bad...

True.. I’ve done MIG before but I’d have to be pretty experienced to weld this .040 aluminum! Next time ;)

[RoadRacer]

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Just going to say, I bet no-one has a cuter helper. My first grandchild :)

And yes, this is me baby sitting :)

[RoadRacer]

Last weekend I started putting the aluminum together, riveting and caulking. Added some aluminum flat bar around top of glove box and made it all very stiff and strong. You can use any of the aluminum to lean on when getting in/out seats.

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Today I had a break and worked on the bodywork in the yard cos I was babysitting puppy that couldn't safely be in garage, so I cut out pedal box panels, exhaust exits and fitted taillights. Also cut back some firewall and sill 'glass to make it fit better.

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[RoadRacer]

On the last day of the 4 days off, I managed to get the body back on and mocked up to start figuring out where this thing goes on the chassis. Hilarious really because everything moves and the only fixed point is the firewall. In the end, I decided on a spot and drilled the holes at the back for the bolts - it's officially attached!

Now the fun really starts, apparently LOL

Some shots for reference later.

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[33fromSD]

Nice!!

[RoadRacer]

Started on the passenger door this weekend. I started by screwing the sill to the chassis, but let the lower firewall unattached so I had some adjustment there if needed.

I mocked up the door and found that it fit remarkably well - the belt line lined up and the tops were both flush front and rear. Too big of course, so I decided to work on the rear first. The bottom had a gap, but the top was tight, so I took some off the door as shown:

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That made the rear line up, so then I worked on the front. I still have gaps that are too tight, but I'll take some more off when I have a flat sanding block rather than the angle grinder I used today :D

After just a couple of hours the door fit pretty perfectly - no twist, and lined up on every edge. Little did I know...

Then I did all the hole cutting using the Gen2 aluminum templates, and started fitting the door frame and hinges. In a couple of places the template was a little out, but no biggie.. I have an air saw to "adjust" as needed lol

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Then I hung the door on the hinges.. hmmm. First, the hinges aren't parallel. the top one is almost half-inch sloped up towards the front, while the bottom is horizontal. Worse, they won't adjust inwards enough before bolting up. Obviously, I want to push the hinge inwards as far as possible to get the door to open, but the slot in the door skin wasn't the problem - the slot in the door frame was. It won't allow much of an inward hinge, so then I open the door, I get this - at maximum adjustment.

Barely 24" at the widest opening. With the roof, that'll be interesting entry/exit..

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So I stopped for the day to watch the F1 race and see if my subconscious can figure this out while I sleep. At one point I thought I'd get this door fitted, hinged and latched in 1 day, but it wasn't to be :D

[HVACMAN]

I hate to be the barer of bad news but, if yours is anything like mine, the drivers side is a nightmare. Nothing lines up. Good luck.

[RoadRacer]

I hate to be the barer of bad news but, if yours is anything like mine, the drivers side is a nightmare. Nothing lines up. Good luck.

You know, I thought I remembered that one was much easier than the other :D

Just reading about MonstaS4's "striker plate saga" on the other thread, but I don't have the energy now to go check!

[HVACMAN]

You know, I thought I remembered that one was much easier than the other :D

Just reading about MonstaS4's "striker plate saga" on the other thread, but I don't have the energy now to go check!

The belt lines are all wrong and the top is at least 1/4 inch low. Also the inner door liner is too far forward. But what the heck it's just more fiberglass. lol

[JimLev]

My pass door wasn’t that bad, the drivers side was a nightmare. The door hit the side of the dash before it was closed. Had to trim the side of the dash and the door, then fiberglass.

[HVACMAN]

My pass door wasn’t that bad, the drivers side was a nightmare. The door hit the side of the dash before it was closed. Had to trim the side of the dash and the door, then fiberglass.

Do you have a huge difference in the gap between the inner door panel and the body at the rear of the door, driver vs. passenger side?

[JimLev]

Do you have a huge difference in the gap between the inner door panel and the body at the rear of the door, driver vs. passenger side?

The pass side gap from the back of the door to the waterfall is 1/2”, the drivers side is 3/4”.
The roof will always be on so the difference won’t really be obvious.

[fostia]

My drivers side door was miserable. Lines didnt match up and the top was about a half inch low. Major fiberglass and filler work required. Spent waaay too long working it. Passenger side had some issues but not as bad. I cant quite tell what your problem is but i had to cut out some of the door near the bottom hinge. I couldnt pull the door out far enough to align with the body right and i found it was hitting one of the countours. Since you never see that area I just hacked it out with a die grinder burr. I have gen 1 everything tho. And i had the huge gap HVACMAN is talking about. I closed that by extending out the fiberglass.

As much as i hated the doors, the trunk was my real nemisis. I still cant get the corners to pop in completely flush and ive tried A LOT of things including Tim Whittakers trunk braces. Extremly frustrating.

[RoadRacer]

I woke up and realized I can just move the stop.. drill a different hole. I was thinking of moving door frame and lenghtnejng the slots but moving the stop is simpler. I’ll try that first, nothing to lose.

[HVACMAN]

My drivers side door was miserable. Lines didnt match up and the top was about a half inch low. Major fiberglass and filler work required. Spent waaay too long working it. Passenger side had some issues but not as bad. I cant quite tell what your problem is but i had to cut out some of the door near the bottom hinge. I couldnt pull the door out far enough to align with the body right and i found it was hitting one of the countours. Since you never see that area I just hacked it out with a die grinder burr. I have gen 1 everything tho. And i had the huge gap HVACMAN is talking about. I closed that by extending out the fiberglass.

As much as i hated the doors, the trunk was my real nemisis. I still cant get the corners to pop in completely flush and ive tried A LOT of things including Tim Whittakers trunk braces. Extremly frustrating.

I had the same problem with the trunk lid. I finally noticed the center of the lid was contacting the center of body opening before the lid closed, which distorted the lid. I lowered that section with Tim Whitaker's piece by adjusting it down. I will experiment more once I get moved. It looks like I will have to build up the body to match the lid. Hope this makes sense.

[RoadRacer]

I had the same problem with the trunk lid. I finally noticed the center of the lid was contacting the center of body opening before the lid closed, which distorted the lid. I lowered that section with Tim Whitaker's piece by adjusting it down. I will experiment more once I get moved. It looks like I will have to build up the body to match the lid. Hope this makes sense.

Ever since I watched Two-Lane Blacktop (coolest car ever!) I've been planning to use dzus fasteners on my trunk and lift it off when filling gas :D I'm hoping I skip this whole mess that everyone goes through. But we'll see, won't we :D

[RoadRacer]

Finally got out to the garage again, been a couple of weeks. I removed the door frame and hinge bracket and looked how it needed adjusting - in my case the slots were just long enough (at final limit) but the bolt heads were getting in the way, so I squared half of them off where they were up against brackets.

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Removing the doorstop opened up the door from 24" - 40", so I'm just going to go with that. If anything I'll make up a door strap later - the doorstop seems so far off of where it needs to be, and its position isn't adjustable, but "oh well".

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Close enough. "A blind man would be glad to see it" as my Mother-in-law frequently says.

I did some other stuff I've been meaning to; shaped and riveted the exhaust surround, and finally bolted up the firewall. It's just been clamped all this time "just in case". :D

[33fromSD]

I'm going to remove the door stop too and come up with something else as well... I'm thinking something along the lines of the thicker picture frame wire with an eyelet on each end which I'll attach the one end to the original doorstop hole in the hinge bracket and then drill a hole and tap it in the hinge.

Donno yet though, need to look at it in detail and figure it out. I too would like the door to open a little wider.

[cob427sc]

I made the door open wider by taking the socket head off the door stop bolt and welding it back on in an offset location. A small offset makes a big difference.

[RoadRacer]

LOL. I guess I need the special offset plates too. I could use these if I had to, but it would mean using just one bolt.. and I don't have the tools to mill in a new slot.

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[RoadRacer]

Well, I got the passenger door latched, so that's done for now. Waiting on final gapping when I get a nice sanding board. As noted above I do need to get new striker plates though. Right now it's strengthening the striker, but not attached to the chassis.

I didn't want to move straight onto the drivers door (!) so I diverted to the trunk. I got my Aeroloc 51-14 Fasteners from Pegasus (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=28577) so I fancied trying them out. I ditched the whole hinge/latch mechanisms for the trunk just because I wanted to keep things simple and I've always loved the dzus twisties. Dzus wouldn't work here though because they don't make them long enough. Aeroloc do - just - and have the advantage of the handle to lift the lid with.

Anyway, after lots of sanding I got it in the hole (good fit; no twist or high point noticeable) and fitted the top two fasteners. I'm not sure yet if I'll have 1 or 2 on the lower edge.

Here are some pics to show how I fit them.

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[RoadRacer]

I like this week off - getting a lot done. Although, I am being dragged to work most mornings for a couple of hours.

Yesterday and today I worked on a few little things and then got into the driver's door. It fits pretty well - like the passenger door did - I really got lucky with this body. I did have to do Jim's trick (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36666-Jim-s-Build-Thread&p=437668&viewfull=1#post437668) with bending the angle of the door frame (good catch Jim). I didn't need it on the passenger side, but did this time. It made a big difference to the strain in the door. Just chucked it in a vice and heaved on it..

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I did lots of sanding to fit the door, all the metalwork, and just finished the afternoon off with it waiting on the hinge bolts to be adjusted and tightened. And the latch of course. Looks good.

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Other little things - drilled all the rivet holes in the access panels above the pedal box, rough-fitted the dash so it wasn't in the way of the driver's door, sanded down some parting lines where the roof will sit, and adjusted the headlights to be more level and straight-ahead. Anything to put off the driver's door :D

My goal - may as well admit it here - is to be driving or getting close to legal by my birthday on Jan 27.

[RoadRacer]

The driver's door was certainly more of a pain to finesse, but largely because I tried to improve something I saw when I did the passenger door. Big mistake!

I moved the inside door hinge bracket further outwards to get the hinges straighter - but that messes up a few things so I moved it back. Then the door started behaving. There was a slight twist in the door (or the body) but pushing down on the main door frame in the existing slots took all the slight twist out. I only had the afternoon outside today, but that was all on the drivers door.. and still haven't latched it. Tomorrow.

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There was one thing I don't know if I mentioned but on both doors I needed one washer between hinge and door bracket to take up a gap. Otherwise tightening the bolt added some strain.

[RoadRacer]

Latched the drivers door and today fitted the roof - sanded and drilled and got ready to bolt on. Waiting on half moon seals via Amazon and then I can bolt it on. I’d bought this roof second hand a while ago (hence the bondo work by previous owner) and didn’t come with any of the fixings. Need to go to Lowe’s and by the bolts too.

Also cut slots and fitted the defroster vents so I can leave the roof on.

Interesting difference between Gen1 and Gen2 manuals around hard top - it appears that Gen2 don’t have inner skin so for once I’m glad that I got Gen1 part! Still fit perfectly to Gen2 body though.

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[RoadRacer]

My final day of 9 days off work, and it wasn't a great success - the waterfall is going to be a royal PITA. Doesn't seem to fit at all. Almost every surface doesn't fit where it's supposed to. I can't see any way to adjust it either - without cutting it into pieces. The top of the doors is way out, the shape around the top is correct but I can't move back far enough to mate up, and the bottom of the doors is worse of all. The lower section is hitting the rollbar support and the chassis below the fuel tank, and I've thinned both areas almost down to the gelcoat and it's still not enough.

So I'll have to make do. I may cut off the lower section completely. I can't make any final decision until the hardtop is actually bolted on since it'll fix in space where the waterfall will bolt. I suppose making new panels from aluminum is an option too.

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It's a shame since every other panel, incl my Gen1 hardtop, has fitted remarkably well.

[FF33rod]

The waterfall takes a bit of finessing for both generations. For Gen 2, I think some had to cut back the rollbar tubes in order for it to fit properly. You might want to go look at some of the other gen 2 build threads to verify. The way the bottom sticks out as shown in your 2nd picture doesn't matter as it's behind the seats and no one is ever going to see it. Get the top part fitted as best you can and get rid of the interference with the roll bar tubes before you cut up or shape the bottom and sides for the door.

Good luck, Steve

[33fromSD]

That's odd on the waterfall. Mine needed a little persuasion in one spot but overall the fit was really good. I lined up / screwed down the passenger side first, then worked my way around to the driver's side and by the time I got to the driver's side the one spot that was a little wonky lined up as well.

[RoadRacer]

I think some had to cut back the rollbar tubes in order for it to fit properly

Yeah, I did wonder about this.. seems a bit extreme but I'm not using the "rollbar" anyway so I don't need these supports at all.

[RoadRacer]

That's odd on the waterfall. Mine needed a little persuasion in one spot but overall the fit was really good. I lined up / screwed down the passenger side first, then worked my way around to the driver's side and by the time I got to the driver's side the one spot that was a little wonky lined up as well.

Wow, I just looked at your build thread about the waterfall - it looks perfect. Damn. I'll have to cut my rollbar supports off to see if it makes a difference.

[33fromSD]

Wow, I just looked at your build thread about the waterfall - it looks perfect. Damn. I'll have to cut my rollbar supports off to see if it makes a difference.

That's why I was surprised when I saw your thread, mine fit really nice. I don't know if it was because I focused on one end and then worked my way around or what the exact reason was, but it's dead on.

Keep in mind though I didn't modify my roll bar supports either

[RoadRacer]

I cut the rollbar supports off - sounds easy but took a heck of a long time, that **** is hard!

The waterfall fits a little better, probably good enough, so I went to bolt on the roof so that I have the final shape to fit the waterfall to. Everything lined up with the rivnuts I did last week, but the front ones all immediately started spinning. So I investigated deeper and found that the hardtop I'd bought had 1/4" of filler applied under the windshield, below the gelcoat. I had to chisel/sand all that off, so the rivnuts would grip into the metal strip. Now the rivnuts are super strong, not affected by even 'glass, just metal. I'll bolt it on tomorrow.

[33fromSD]

I cut the rollbar supports off - sounds easy but took a heck of a long time, that **** is hard!

The waterfall fits a little better, probably good enough, so I went to bolt on the roof so that I have the final shape to fit the waterfall to. Everything lined up with the rivnuts I did last week, but the front ones all immediately started spinning. So I investigated deeper and found that the hardtop I'd bought had 1/4" of filler applied under the windshield, below the gelcoat. I had to chisel/sand all that off, so the rivnuts would grip into the metal strip. Now the rivnuts are super strong, not affected by even 'glass, just metal. I'll bolt it on tomorrow.

That is similar to what I did on the hood, I actually drilled the 25/64 hole for the rivnut but then I took a 1/2" bit to lightly grind away the fiber glass so I was down to the aluminum, then I installed the rivnuts plus I took a 1/2-20 3/4" bolt with a washer on it and screwed it into the rivnut and then torqued the bolt down tight plus 1 full turn and you could feel the rivnut compress even more. Those puppies aren't going anywhere.

[RoadRacer]

Great day today. Bolted up the roof without drama, and then move to the trunk where I final fitted all the aluminum. Tomorrow I can go back to the interior and create a couple panels under the waterfall then fit that too.

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[RoadRacer]

Went under the car today. Connected the handbrake and exhaust tips. Then went for a drive!


https://youtu.be/5LMJe3IApr0

[JimLev]

Nice idle. Where’s the drive video, want to hear that exhaust.

[RoadRacer]

Nice idle. Where’s the drive video, want to hear that exhaust.

The wind noise always overrides the exhaust.. maybe when I have a windshield it’ll be better

[33fromSD]

Awesome!!....Always a good feeling

[wallace18]

Sounds great!:cool:

[j33ptj]

Love how your wife(?) keeps brushing the sidewalk.... not impressed by the looks of it!!

Love the sound of that idle!!!

RJ

[RoadRacer]

Love how your wife(?) keeps brushing the sidewalk.... not impressed by the looks of it!!

Love the sound of that idle!!!

RJ

Haha! She’s seen many weird cars come and go over 27 years - she puts up with it! ;)

[33fromSD]

Haha! She’s seen many weird cars come and go over 27 years - she puts up with it! ;)

She was probably waiting for you to finish up the video and move the 33 so she could finishing sweeping. :D

[RoadRacer]

Another silly milestone - front and rear glass! I found a local mobile guy who would come out - most wouldn't for this "strange car". He charged $100/glass to fit it and spent 90minutes or so doing it.

He roughed up the gelcoat, then applied a thin black primer with a brush. He used a very thick black caulk like rubber to glue in the windshield(s):

140623

Here's the final result

140624

Given that it's cold I'm just going to leave the car alone for a few days for it to set up.

[RoadRacer]

Finally got back to the waterfall, and managed to get it close. Put one rivnut in 2" chassis tube at the bottom, and another up top next to harnesses. There's some stress because the shape is wrong, but this minimizes it. Just waiting for the caulk on lower aluminum panels to set overnight last night before I can fit it all, move onto seats etc.

Also fitted license plate at back using an old plate.. it's so odd that the way it goes toegther you cannot change plate without breaking the wire connections! So I connected temporarily but left them all long so I can do it again. Added two lower dzus style fixings to bottom corner of trunk lid.

Oh, and I got two new latch striker plates from FFR, I had sent pics a week ago showing how they were an inch out (Gen2 body over Gen1 chassis) and they said they thought they knew what I needed and bent up some new plates. I haven't fitted yet, but they look right!

[RoadRacer]

Finished the waterfall first, nice to have that out of the way.

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Then for some fun I made a little divider to stop my toolroll rolling around in the trunk :D

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Wired up the license plate LED's

140839

Then made up a lid for my glove box using a cabinet hinge (my wife will pad and cover this at some point)

140843 140844 140845 140846

[RoadRacer]

Bit of a struggle today. My engine has been running really rich - literally makes-my-eyes-water rich - reminds me of watching top fuel! It also runs like s**t over 1500rpm, popping and banging. So today was spent outside trying to figure this all out. I'd tried the mixture screws before.

It's a SBC with Holley 4150 650cfm double pumper. Davis Unified Ignition (DUI) distributor+coil. And I'll preface all this with the fact that although I've run this combo a few times, I'm far from an expert with the inner workings of a 4150. Carbs are complicated :D

I set the float levels to the bottom of the sight holes. While I was checking it all out I found a broken vacuum plug, so hoped that was the root cause.

I put a vacuum gauge on the manifold, and got 18 inches, and then tuned the mixture (to now about 3/4 out) to get 20 inches. I figure that means there are no more vacuum leaks.(valid?) The exhaust is instantly better, now invisible where it was colored when super-rich. When revving it gets grey/black again, like it's still rich at revs. I set the secondary mixture to the same turns as primary (not sure how to set secondary mixture).

I put a timing light on, set to zero so I can read the numbers painted on the balancer (0-40 is marked). I'm at 14-16 at idle, around 35 total. But to get it to 35 is painful. The motor is revving but backfiring regularly, popping and banging like it's at a rev limiter (which I don't have btw).

But the timing numbers seem close, so I'm moving on. The leads are new, and everything is connected ok - correct firing order on the distributor, and going to the correct plugs.

I check the spark plugs (only a couple miles go-karting on them) and they are black of course (see richness above) but not oily or wet. First thought, can plugs get damaged by running very rich? They are Accel 576S, as recommended by.. well I have no idea now, but they seem to be suitable for this DUI HEI. Gaps are all 55, as DUI recommend.

Last thing I check, I get temperatures from each exhaust - ~650º on all 4 outers (1,2,7,8) and ~750º on all 4 inners (3,4,5,6), so I took that as proof there is nothing terribly bad inside motor; e.g. stuck valves, etc. (?)

Note that there is no "horrible" noise when revving, like a bent pushrod, etc. No tapping, no pinging, no metallic anything. To my novice ears it sounds rough and backfiring - so much so that it's hard to drive. But still smooth at idle.

I have a call out to a couple of SBC folks who have been doing this since the sixties, so we'll see what they suggest.

My gut feeling at this point is that it's the distributor, but it's entirely possible I've done something dumb...

[33fromSD]

Bummer...sorry to hear this..... I won't be much help here, I haven't touched a chevy engine is probably literally 30 years, the last 30 years for me have been SBFs & Mopar engines. If you were having issues with those I may have been able to help. Good luck, keep us posted.

My initial reaction when reading this is .55 gap on the spark plugs seems huge but I don't know anything about DUI ignition so I won't assume anything. Jim

[Mastertech5]

Sounds like possible bad float needle and seat or a possible bad power valve diaphram in the carb. If timing is correct and advances when you rev it, it should be a carb problem. Are the plugs black fluffy fouled or wet oily fouled. A vacuum leak will cause a lean condition and the plugs will be white in color. Make sure the secondary throttle plates aren't stuck open.

[JimLev]

I haven’t touched a carb in a few years. Along with what the others have said the only thing I can add is what is your fuel pressure regulator set at?

[RoadRacer]

Sounds like possible bad float needle and seat or a possible bad power valve diaphram in the carb. If timing is correct and advances when you rev it, it should be a carb problem. Are the plugs black fluffy fouled or wet oily fouled. A vacuum leak will cause a lean condition and the plugs will be white in color. Make sure the secondary throttle plates aren't stuck open.

Thanks! I have a rebuild kit so I’ll take it apart and see what I find. The plugs were like a blackboard, not oily or wet at all. Appreciate the help.

[RoadRacer]

I haven’t touched a carb in a few years. Along with what the others have said the only thing I can add is what is your fuel pressure regulator set at?

Yes good point, I should have mentioned. I have a regulator and fuel pressure gauge plumbed in.. it doesn’t go over 6-7psi.

[NAZ]

The rich mixture could be caused by something as simple as an improperly set electric choke. If you are just at the go-kart stage and haven’t run the car very long you could have more run time on the plugs under rich conditions than under normal running conditions. The plugs will color as rich and never had a chance to burn off the soot.

Is this a new out of the box 4150? What pre-installation set-up did you do on the carb? Did you adjust the idle transfer port opening on both primaries and secondaries? Should be no more than .04” uncovered or your idle screws will lose authority. Did you set-up the electric choke? My suggestion is always to start by reaffirming your set-up -- both carb and ignition. And be sure that you know the correct firing order as you can get a 4-7 swap cam for a SBC.



What number PV are you using? Rule of thumb is ½ the idle vacuum but must be at least 1.5”/hg less than idle vacuum or it will open during idle and cause a rich mixture.


You stated you set the fuel level where it’s at the bottom of the sight glass (should be 1/3 to ½) – was the carb level? Engine installation and parking spot can have an effect on the carb angle.


What type of manifold are you using – high rise open plenum or dual plane?

Your video of the engine idling in your driveway sounds like your cam has a bit of overlap (lumpy idle) – do you know the LSA on the cam? Big overlap cams are hard to get the idle adjusted.


What is your base timing set at (vacuum advance hose plugged and normal hot idle RPM).


You mentioned backfiring – was that out the carb or the exhaust?

[RoadRacer]

Thanks NAZ. The motor and carb are both bought from guys that said they ran but had zero info on them. So I know very little of internals of either. No info on cam, pv, etc.

I did convert to manual choke and had it wide open. Car was on level ground not driveway. I’ve read both that level should be half way and at bottom of sight plug.. I chose to believe bottom was correct because how could you set 1/2 way up without a sight plug? I figured you could set “just coming out of hole” without a sight hole. Anyway I do have one so I can do either.

Base timing ~15°. Advances up to ~35 without any any vacuum. Backfiring from exhaust. Manifold is performer RPM.

I’ll look into the carb and see what I found. I hadn’t done any setup since it came from a running motor but of course in hindsight that’s only half the battle. Who knows what jets/pv are in there. I never setup the transfer slots.

[NAZ]

Base timing and advance are reasonable starting points. Still be aware that 4-7 swap cams are very popular (I run one in mine) so be sure of your firing order.

Note: when you view the fuel level in the sight glass you are actually seeing a higher liquid level than what the jets see due to surface tension. Not much difference between the actual level and the indicated level, but the carb is very sensitive to head pressure of the liquid column in the bowl so it's best to get this adjustment correct to start with. You can change AFR with fuel level as a fine tuning aid once your set-up is close.

If you have converted to a mechanical choke AND it is working properly then that eliminates one possibility of a rich mixture. But what type manifold are you running?

OK, you’re dealing with an unknown carb, one of the most adjustable models on the planet. My advice to start by verifying the set-up is still valid. But since this carb could have been adjusted any number of ways, you should start with disassembling it and recording all the shooter sizes, all jet sizes (including the emulsion jets if so equipped) and air bleeds (if equipped), PV number and if it has more than one PV, the color and position of the accelerator cams, and the secondary linkage type (there are 1:1 ratio linkage and several progressive linkages to choose from), the standard most use on a street car is 40% progressive (primaries 40% open before secondaries start to open). Take your squirter, jet and bleeder sizes and compare them with what the carb came with from Holley. Since you live near sea level, the standard jet sizes should get you close. This will help you determine which 4150 carb you have: https://www.holley.com/blog/post/how_to_identify_your_holley_or_demon_carburetor/

[RoadRacer]

Thanks again. Gotcha on the fuel level, makes sense. I'll raise it up a tad.

> But what type manifold are you running?

Edelbrock Performer RPM - a dual plane.

Yeah, I say 4150, but it's actually a Proform 650 upgrade series (https://www.proformparts.com/product-detail/67255/engine-carburetor-upgrade-series-model-650-cfm-mechanical-secondaries-type) - which is close to the same but since you asked. I will certainly strip it and see what's inside.

But back to the 4-7 cam.. never heard of that. I'll google. But would it be such a nice smooth idle if I was wrong? I'd assume that firing two cylinders at the wrong time would be very noticeable.

[FF33rod]

FWIW, the SBF performer intake has a port on the rear of the plenum that I missed when I installed it. This affected 4 of the 8 cylinders and resulted in popping and backfiring. Wasn't on their diagram and being on the rear of the plenum, it was difficult to spot/find particularly with the engine in the car.

Steve

[RoadRacer]

FWIW, the SBF performer intake has a port on the rear of the plenum that I missed when I installed it. This affected 4 of the 8 cylinders and resulted in popping and backfiring. Wasn't on their diagram and being on the rear of the plenum, it was difficult to spot/find particularly with the engine in the car.

Steve

Interesting, thanks, I'll go check. But I'm hoping that seeing 20" vacuum on the manifold meant there were no leaks anywhere.

[NAZ]

James, besides being a used carb subject to any number of unknown mods from the previous owner, that carb is assembled from off-shore parts. It's supposed to be a Holley knock-off but you may have trouble finding the jet sizes it came with originally. You could research a genuine Holley (or QFT) model similar to your Chinese carb and that might be a good starting point. But my advice is to sell that carb on Craigslist and purchase a Quick Fuel 4150 carb the appropriate size for your engine. Quick Fuel Technology (a Holley company) is the gold standard for 4150. Holley has a carb sizing calculator you can use to ensure you purchase the correct size.

Whatever you decide, good luck. If you get it dialed in it will work well for you as you have the advantage of living in a state that doesn't see a lot of extreme elevation changes (unless you want to drive up to the Guadalupe Mountains where it will be pig rich if jetted for your hometown).

[RoadRacer]

James, besides being a used carb subject to any number of unknown mods from the previous owner, that carb is assembled from off-shore parts. It's supposed to be a Holley knock-off but you may have trouble finding the jet sizes it came with originally. You could research a genuine Holley (or QFT) model similar to your Chinese carb and that might be a good starting point. But my advice is to sell that carb on Craigslist and purchase a Quick Fuel 4150 carb the appropriate size for your engine. Quick Fuel Technology (a Holley company) is the gold standard for 4150. Holley has a carb sizing calculator you can use to ensure you purchase the correct size.

Whatever you decide, good luck. If you get it dialed in it will work well for you as you have the advantage of living in a state that doesn't see a lot of extreme elevation changes (unless you want to drive up to the Guadalupe Mountains where it will be pig rich if jetted for your hometown).

Yep, I'm with you. Since I have it, I'll strip it and use it as a learning experience if nothing else..

[RoadRacer]

Maybe I’ll finally get to use this.. had this for..umm.. almost 30 years now? GT40 was in 1993...

140979

[RoadRacer]

Fun day.. well I had to do some Honey-Does which was digging holes and concreting in some posts for a new yard project - but then I ran out to the garage to strip/rebuild my carb.

It was interesting. I had a rebuild kit and a LOT of jets, so I hoped I'd find some 85 jets in there or something. Or a hole in the power valve. Something obvious. But no.

The primaries were 66, secondaries 70, the normal 6.5 power valve and a plugged PV out the back. Everything sparkly clean and as it should be. Looked at float valves, replaced most parts I had in rebuild kit, but found nothing untoward. The transfer slots were square - everything I looked at was textbook.

With all the new parts in, did it run better? Did it hell! I reset floats, then set mixture using manifold vacuum (went from 16-20).. and the best vacuum, highest idle, and smoothest running is when the screws are fully screwed in. LOL. Given there are brand new parts now in this, someone must have been messing around with this thing.

The nail in the coffin was that I called the guy I bought it from, and he said "yeah, it's always run rich, and the guy I got it from said the same". So I suspect someone set this up for some drag racing WOT somehow.

So I followed NAZ advice and will keep this for parts, or sell it, and I ordered myself a brand new 793-BR-67212 Brawler Street Carburetor 650 CFM (https://www.jegs.com/i/Quick-Fuel/793/BR-67212/10002/-1?trk_msg=0T0QTD5238MKF33E6C70O4HR8S&trk_contact=G8JTM1UU6T1IVBBP0CQNRLJRDS&trk_module=tra&trk_sid=J039MPKOIEM8OTBDD7HUBHIAFO&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Product&utm_campaign=Transactional&utm_content=Order+Confirmation) which will be here Wednesday.

Which is my birthday, so Happy Birthday to me :D

[33fromSD]

Fun day.. well I had to do some Honey-Does which was digging holes and concreting in some posts for a new yard project - but then I ran out to the garage to strip/rebuild my carb.

It was interesting. I had a rebuild kit and a LOT of jets, so I hoped I'd find some 85 jets in there or something. Or a hole in the power valve. Something obvious. But no.

The primaries were 66, secondaries 70, the normal 6.5 power valve and a plugged PV out the back. Everything sparkly clean and as it should be. Looked at float valves, replaced most parts I had in rebuild kit, but found nothing untoward. The transfer slots were square - everything I looked at was textbook.

With all the new parts in, did it run better? Did it hell! I reset floats, then set mixture using manifold vacuum (went from 16-20).. and the best vacuum, highest idle, and smoothest running is when the screws are fully screwed in. LOL. Given there are brand new parts now in this, someone must have been messing around with this thing.

The nail in the coffin was that I called the guy I bought it from, and he said "yeah, it's always run rich, and the guy I got it from said the same". So I suspect someone set this up for some drag racing WOT somehow.

So I followed NAZ advice and will keep this for parts, or sell it, and I ordered myself a brand new 793-BR-67212 Brawler Street Carburetor 650 CFM (https://www.jegs.com/i/Quick-Fuel/793/BR-67212/10002/-1?trk_msg=0T0QTD5238MKF33E6C70O4HR8S&trk_contact=G8JTM1UU6T1IVBBP0CQNRLJRDS&trk_module=tra&trk_sid=J039MPKOIEM8OTBDD7HUBHIAFO&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Product&utm_campaign=Transactional&utm_content=Order+Confirmation) which will be here Wednesday.

Which is my birthday, so Happy Birthday to me :D

Happy early B-day James!!

[NAZ]

Happy birthday! Like building a house, you now have a solid foundation to work with. One tip, most will tie their vacuum advance hose to the timed spark port and that usually works well. But some engines run better when the full vacuum part is used for the advance. So experiment with both to see which works best in your application.

[RoadRacer]

Thank goodness. The new brawler 650dp showed up, and I installed it today - left it as-is except for swapping the electric choke for my manual setup. Haven't touched mixture, or float, or anything.

Seemed to rev better in the garage, but the real test was 4 laps around the neighborhood. Holy C%%p! Suddenly this thing feels fast. The response when tickling the throttle is instant, loud and I'm sure will be fast. No sign of any misfires/backfires.. all smooth loud power. So happy.. I still wasn't sure this would fix it, and $450 seemed a lot for an experiment, but it paid off.

I'll need a long flat wide road to floor this thing, in very gradual stages. I know we all talk about 300hp in 2000lbs being 6.7lbs/hp (seems about the same as a hellcat) but it's going to fun :D

[RoadRacer]

Haven't done much - more honey-does - but I did adjust the handbrake that was bugging me because it was already almost at full pull. I was thinking I'd have to cut off my crimp and shorten the cable a bit, but when I measured how much I needed to adjust it was just 14mm, so I had that much on the threads. I just had to drop the cable, wind it in and bolt it up again. Now It's just slightly loose with the handbrake off, and starts pulling at tooth 1-2. Gives me more confidence in it :D

As I was going over the registration checklist I realized I had never wired up my horn to a switch, since I'd moved to quick disconnect steering wheel. So I tapped a rubber starter switch into the horn ground wire that comes off the column, and that's now working.

I also wanted to do some wiring troubleshooting. My oil pressure gauge doesn't work at all. I can't see anything on autometer.com on how it works, but I assume that the sender gives varying degrees of resistance depending on pressure? I checked that and the sender is varying from full resistance (i.e. no current) at 0psi to 95 ohms at idle - which is 30-40 psi on my motor. But gauge doesn't move. Perhaps it's the gauge, not the sender, at fault. I'll try emailing/calling FFR/autometer tomorrow. Anyone have ideas there?

[JimLev]

The sending unit body is grounded to the engine which is grounded to the chassis. The back of your gauge has a ground connection on it. That wire should show 0 ohms (or very close to it) with your meter connected between the chassis and the oil gauge ground.
The I terminal on the back of the gauge should read 12 volts (to chassis ground) when the key is on.
The last terminal on the back of the gauge is the S terminal, that connects to the oil pressure sending unit, as the resistance of the sending unit changes with oil pressure the current flow to the gauge changes.
Another test would be to check the resistance of the S wire to chassis ground with the engine running to make sure you get a reading.

[RoadRacer]

Another test would be to check the resistance of the S wire to chassis ground with the engine running to make sure you get a reading.

Yes all those things check out. The s wire is what I’m saying has 95ohms reading. The feeds all seem correct so it may be the gauge.. I have some questions out to autometer and ffr

[RoadRacer]

Got down to taking some insurance pictures for Robbin at Midwest (amazing experience, highly recommended) - should be covered very soon, and then I can start on registration.

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[Lickity-Split]

Will Robbin suggest a valuation for insurance purposes based on their company's experience? Or, will they use your number? Obviously, you know how much you've spent, but your labor is also worth something. The insurable value is then determined by ... ?

The reason I'm asking is because I've been looking for a FF car in just about your level of completion and am curious about insuring it.

[RoadRacer]

Will Robbin suggest a valuation for insurance purposes based on their company's experience? Or, will they use your number? Obviously, you know how much you've spent, but your labor is also worth something. The insurable value is then determined by ... ?

The reason I'm asking is because I've been looking for a FF car in just about your level of completion and am curious about insuring it.

Honestly, I didn't ask. I simply gave them a number of what I'd spent - roughly $35k to date, so that's the agreed value. I could have asked for more (labor, etc).. but I didn't. Robbin is super helpful though, you could ask him.

I asked for 6,000-mile policy - pre-Covid I would have gone unlimited, but now I work at home, and therefore don't drive to work!

I thought it was very cheap - ~$450/yr. Definitely my cheapest car to insure.

[RoadRacer]

Step 1 was easy.. went to the county office today and with my insurance cert and $30 I walked out with a 30 day permit. I’m going to use that to drive to alignment, weigh station, inspection etc. no form to fill in or anything..

[JimLev]

How’d you make out with the oil pressure gauge?

[RoadRacer]

How’d you make out with the oil pressure gauge?

I spoke to autometer about troubleshooting steps - they said to test..

1. that the gauge had 12v between ground and positive - it does
2. that the sender resistance changes between engine off and engine running - it does (likely a bad sender if not)
3. that the gauge shows 100psi when I short between ground and signal - mine doesn't move at all.

He said that if step 3 doesn't work, it's likely a bad gauge.

I send these steps to Dan (via tech@factoryfive.com) - he immediately agreed and put a new gauge in the mail, arriving Saturday. I've had amazing responses from FFR recently - new latch striker plates, new oil gauge, response about shifter boot - they really deserve their top spot in the industry in my opinion.

[33fromSD]

I spoke to autometer about troubleshooting steps - they said to test..

1. that the gauge had 12v between ground and positive - it does
2. that the sender resistance changes between engine off and engine running - it does (likely a bad sender if not)
3. that the gauge shows 100psi when I short between ground and signal - mine doesn't move at all.

He said that if step 3 doesn't work, it's likely a bad gauge.

I send these steps to Dan (via tech@factoryfive.com) - he immediately agreed and put a new gauge in the mail, arriving Saturday. I've had amazing responses from FFR recently - new latch striker plates, new oil gauge, response about shifter boot - they really deserve their top spot in the industry in my opinion.

James - What did FFR have to say about the shifter boot? Mine is still on B/O....my last part I'm waiting on.

Jim

[JimLev]

James (RoadRacer) did you have an issue with your shifter boot or just didn’t get one?
Mine looks like it is 50 years old.
Good to hear you have a new gauge on the way.

[RoadRacer]

James - What did FFR have to say about the shifter boot? Mine is still on B/O....my last part I'm waiting on.

Jim

Same thing.. backorder.

[RoadRacer]

James (RoadRacer) did you have an issue with your shifter boot or just didn’t get one?
Mine looks like it is 50 years old.
Good to hear you have a new gauge on the way.

No, I just lost mine somewhere along the way. I know I had one! I just won't find it until after I buy a new one. :D

[RoadRacer]

Never posted these, but in case it helps - these are the Gen2-body-on-Gen1-chassis striker plates that I got from FFR - slightly different shape.

142453

[33fromSD]

Same thing.. backorder.

Yeah, they said their vendor they were using stopped making them so they are trying to source a new vendor.

[RoadRacer]

My front tires (bought second hand) are bald, so I've been looking out for deals on these: (same tire, obv I'll put new ones on back)

142488

and this morning I came across this - holy cow that's cheap. Less than half price?! Ok, so they're 2018 but I have no idea how long tires are good for, and trust me, mine won't last long :D

142489

[RoadRacer]

Happy birthday! Like building a house, you now have a solid foundation to work with. One tip, most will tie their vacuum advance hose to the timed spark port and that usually works well. But some engines run better when the full vacuum part is used for the advance. So experiment with both to see which works best in your application.

Coming back to this NAZ, my friend who has a lot of experience with SBC/BBC (and has a lot of street/drag cars in his family) said that he disconnects the vacuum completely.. so I will try all three versions of vacuum advance: None, Timed, Manifold.

He also recommended that I installed this kit (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000COO1DG/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and use the strongest [UPDATE: weakest!] springs to make the timing curve tighter - he said it'll get to maximum advance much faster (1800rpm rather than 3200rpm) and will be nicer and more responsive to drive.

you want about 12-18 degrees of timing at idle. I would start with about 30-32 degrees fully advanced then adjust from there, if it feels sluggish in higher rpm then add 2-4 degrees


Always happy to hear others opinions.. although of course it depends on motor and I'll be experimenting. Does this sound a reasonable place to start?

[McGuyver]

You are going to have lots of options there to compare, so it should be fun figuring out what it likes. You may have said it backwards - I believe the weaker springs will allow full advance at a lower rpm.

[RoadRacer]

You are going to have lots of options there to compare, so it should be fun figuring out what it likes. You may have said it backwards - I believe the weaker springs will allow full advance at a lower rpm.

Yes! Thanks. Entirely possible about weaker/stronger.. that was a pure guess. I haven't even opened the package to look yet. :D

[JimLev]

Yes, weaker springs will allow a quicker advance.

[RoadRacer]

I finally fitted the alternator, so I can drive around and not worry about my battery lasting. It never let me down go-karting, but now I'm driving around proper, I bolted it up and took my temporary belt to the local store to find the closest fit.

Then I celebrated by driving to fill up with gas (the v2 tank is fast to fill, yay!) and drove around for a bit. Feels VERY ODD to be out and driving this thing. I'll throw the GoPro in there for next time..

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[RoadRacer]

Hmm, I cannot get my speedo to register speed. I went through the calibration process, drove a 2 mile distance and it acted the right way all the way through..

- It moves to halfway when power turned on
- it moves to full speed when entering calibration mode
- stays at halfway during calibration (BUT nothing shows on LCD.. seems it should be counting)
- when I stop calibration it shows 16000 on the LCD for a second (which seems to be the default 16,000 pulses/ mile it comes with).

So I'm think it's the sender or the wiring this time.

The sender seemed very easy to fit and wire up to my new TKO600 from Mike Forte at the time - this is a photo I took. I'll lift up the car and take a closer look..

142588

[FF33rod]

Hmm, I cannot get my speedo to register speed. I went through the calibration process, drove a 2 mile distance and it acted the right way all the way through..

- It moves to halfway when power turned on
- it moves to full speed when entering calibration mode
- stays at halfway during calibration (BUT nothing shows on LCD.. seems it should be counting)
- when I stop calibration it shows 16000 on the LCD for a second (which seems to be the default 16,000 pulses/ mile it comes with).

So I'm think it's the sender or the wiring this time.

The sender seemed very easy to fit and wire up to my new TKO600 from Mike Forte at the time - this is a photo I took. I'll lift up the car and take a closer look..

142588

Did you ground the grey "speedo return" wire?

Steve

[RoadRacer]

Did you ground the grey "speedo return" wire?

Steve

I honestly don't remember how this went together Steve. There's nothing in my manuals (2R or 3G) about this, so I probably winged it. I don't remember if I had to make a connection somewhere or if that plug came on the loom. Studying the wiring loom diagram now..

[sread]

I think that the sensor that connects to the mechanical speedo drive should be a 3 wire sensor - at least according to the instructions that came with my Classic Instrument gauges. I have a TKO but am using the electronic signal generator (hall effect I believe) mounted on the other side of the trans which is a 2 wire hook up with 1 wire (either one) connected to the speedo and the other to ground.

[RoadRacer]

I honestly don't remember how this went together Steve. There's nothing in my manuals (2R or 3G) about this, so I probably winged it. I don't remember if I had to make a connection somewhere or if that plug came on the loom. Studying the wiring loom diagram now..

Steve, you're a star. I still don't see where it tells you to ground the grey, but I had just put a heatsleeve over it. I've grounded it now and went for a spin - and the speedo works great! Thanks for the help.

[JimLev]

Any idea how many gallons the tank holds? Someone was guessing that it was about 13.

[RoadRacer]

Any idea how many gallons the tank holds? Someone was guessing that it was about 13.

Yes I think that’s pretty close, maybe 12.5. I’d put in a full 5 gallon in last week and then today added another 7.5 at the gas station.

[FF33rod]

Steve, you're a star. I still don't see where it tells you to ground the grey, but I had just put a heatsleeve over it. I've grounded it now and went for a spin - and the speedo works great! Thanks for the help.

Glad I was able to help. Not sure how I discovered that, after 2 years of building things become blurry. I think they intentionally kept it that way to accommodate a number of different scenarios (ECUs, sender units, etc). The schematic diagram is the clue though - clearly shows it is connected to nothing else....

On the tank, both the FFR and the Boyd tanks are around 13 gallons as others have said.

Cheers
Steve

[RoadRacer]

I have a wiper now. I hate this thing (hate that I have to have it), which is why it's almost the last thing to do before the inspection.

It'll be coming off immediately afterward :D

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[bldr.rob]

Looking good James! Is that a manual wiper just to get passed the inspection? I was debating that myself on our Roadster.



I have a wiper now. I hate this thing (hate that I have to have it), which is why it's almost the last thing to do before the inspection.

It'll be coming off immediately afterward :D

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[RoadRacer]

Looking good James! Is that a manual wiper just to get passed the inspection? I was debating that myself on our Roadster.

Well, almost. It's the very cheap very basic speedway motor (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Universal-Black-12-Volt-Electric-Windshield-Wiper-Motor-Kit,2999.html). Has a switch built-in, so I just ran some wires up to it.

If I was running a roadster windshield like you are, I would have gone for the even simpler model!

[RoadRacer]

I pulled out the vinyl roll and asked my wife to sew up a shifter boot since I’d lost mine and FFR don’t have any right now. I took measurements from a speedway motors pic (looks same as FFR) - 7.25” wide and high. Pretty simple for her to do and I think it’ll fit great.

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This shows a quick prototype out of some scrap

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[RoadRacer]

I love driving this thing. #driveitlikeyoustoleit

I got around to shortening the throttle cable today - bought a dremel cutting disc and it worked perfectly. Pulled out the inner, cut the outer to 12" long, then played with pedal angles and carb holes to make sure I could get full travel plus a little. Ended up having to rotate the pedal on the splines, then using a mid-range hole on both carb and pedal. Cut the inner and used the supplied ends which worked really well. Feels better now it doesn't have a 3ft loop.

I also fitted my wife's shifter boot, and it worked great.

143057

Took it out for a drive since we're all going a little stir crazy in TX. First day with dry roads for a week or more. Except not dry enough apparently.. I drove through a quite deep and very muddy puddle on side of road and realized - I NEVER THINK ABOUT PUDDLES! That'll have to change with a fenderless hotrod.

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[RoadRacer]

Well, almost. It's the very cheap very basic speedway motor (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Universal-Black-12-Volt-Electric-Windshield-Wiper-Motor-Kit,2999.html). Has a switch built-in, so I just ran some wires up to it.

If I was running a roadster windshield like you are, I would have gone for the even simpler model!

Took a picture of the wiper..143161

[RoadRacer]

A quick video taken by my daughter while I drove around this afternoon. Some inside video coming soon..


https://youtu.be/IQ6ihuXLD_0

[RoadRacer]

I installed the supplied handbrake cover today before I bolted in the seats. I had to bend the wire 90º in a couple of places but it fit well enough for me after that.

143185

My wife then finished making up a foam and vinyl cover for my hinged armrest and I got the seats installed on the breeze tilted brackets.

143186

All I'm waiting on now is mirrors, then I can get the car inspected..

[RoadRacer]

Downloaded 11mins from GoPro of pretty boring driving around the neighborhood (no hooning until I get a feel for it :D) - jump to 5:00 for the shower scene - just a little muddy water covered the whole car.


https://youtu.be/DvxFDMOuA0c

[RoadRacer]

My order from Demon Tweeks took 2.5 months to get to me from UK - but they are here. I fitted them today and took them for a 10-mile celebration drive - much less worry about cops when you can see behind you :D

I drilled and bolted the side mirrors (which have convex glass) to the hardtop since it's never coming off and I figured it would be more stable there than the door which is always moving/slamming. Did the normal big black cap on the inside skin. The rear view mirror isn't convex, but it's wide enough to see almost the entire back window.

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[RoadRacer]

One step closer today - made a 30mile roundtrip to an alignment shop. It drove very well up to 70 on way there - 80 on way back. All I'd done was the string alignment but it was pretty close. The caster on one wheel was all that was way out.

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They also fitted my new tires to the back and moved the rears to the front, so my car is officially 'square' now. It was 275 front, 285 rear, but now all 285/35R-19.

For those interested, here are the results.

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It made a big difference in one thing - slow turning. The 285's are almost easy to turn now! That one bad caster I guess? Or may the new tires that aren't worn-out slicks like the old ones.

One thing I HAVE TO CHANGE - during the 30 miles I must have grounded the rear tires to the body a dozen or more times. I could smell the rubber each time. The rear is definitely going up 0.5-1.0 inches! (FWIW, I don't think it'll affect the alignment numbers too much, a 0.5" raise over a 9' wheel base is only 0.25º I think - and only affects caster?)

[33fromSD]

One step closer today - made a 30mile roundtrip to an alignment shop. It drove very well up to 70 on way there - 80 on way back. All I'd done was the string alignment but it was pretty close. The caster on one wheel was all that was way out.

They also fitted my new tires to the back and moved the rears to the front, so my car is officially 'square' now. It was 275 front, 285 rear, but now all 285/35R-19.

For those interested, here are the results.

It made a big difference in one thing - slow turning. The 285's are almost easy to turn now! That one bad caster I guess? Or may the new tires that aren't worn-out slicks like the old ones.

One thing I HAVE TO CHANGE - during the 30 miles I must have grounded the rear tires to the body a dozen or more times. I could smell the rubber each time. The rear is definitely going up 0.5-1.0 inches! (FWIW, I don't think it'll affect the alignment numbers too much, a 0.5" raise over a 9' wheel base is only 0.25º I think - and only affects caster?)

Hi James

I'm aware of quite a few @home alignment tricks, but what is the string alignment method your referring to? I've used string for toe before, curious on the alignment part...I may want to try that.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Hi James

I'm aware of quite a few @home alignment tricks, but what is the string alignment method your referring to? I've used string for toe before, curious on the alignment part...I may want to try that.

Jim

Right, just for setting rough toe-in. I also did rough camber with a level. But I didn't have any rough-n-ready caster ideas, so that was the one that was WAY out.

From my earlier build notes "Centered the steering ball joints, then wound in/out the steering arms, and adjusted the rear LCA to get rough camber".

[33fromSD]

Right, just for setting rough toe-in. I also did rough camber with a level. But I didn't have any rough-n-ready caster ideas, so that was the one that was WAY out.

From my earlier build notes "Centered the steering ball joints, then wound in/out the steering arms, and adjusted the rear LCA to get rough camber".

got it...Thanks... Jim

[RoadRacer]

Went for a nice drive in the country to get weighed.. I'm trying to pick almost the furthest location when I need to get something done :D This was a 40 mile roundtrip, cross country on a beautiful day.

Pick up my business partner for my first passenger

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Got in line behind the trucks

143632

and here's the result!

143633

2280lbs.. I must admit I thought it would be less. I have no creature comforts, no side glass, no sound-deadening or carpet - but sure, there's a hardtop, full tank and an iron block/head SBC, fat radials.

[FF33rod]

Must be the windshield wiper motor ;)

Lighter than mine though. I weighed it in roadster version with hood and side covers, no side windows. It did have the heater&A/C, lizard skin for heat & sound as well as the FFR insulation package

Steve

[RoadRacer]

I got the ASE inspection today, which was beyond easy. Over in 20 minutes and he signed everything off with just a cursory inspection. I was expecting something much scarier. I think I have everything now to start back on the government side of the process.

Driving was interesting.. went perfectly for first 10 miles and then suddenly started coughing like out of gas while driving up a hill. I have a mechanical pump that I use while driving and an electrical one I use to fill the float bowls if needed to start.. well I knocked on the electrical pump and the problem cleared up. I'm thinking my mechanical pump has a problem.

After the inspection, while I was driving along the highway, I knocked off the electrical and again seems like there's something going on.. and didn't the car smell extra gassy today? Anyway, still drove 80 just fine.

Got home, and stepped out of the car - there's a trail of dots down the driveway, and a growing stain under the car. There's a slow leak somewhere, and I suspect all the electrical pump did is push more gas past the leak to the motor. Tonight is date night, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow. Still fun though, now I'm in bug-fixing mode.

[dstelter]

Hey James

Following your process with getting your ride legal. I'm probably 4-5 months behind you on my Coupe. Was curious on where you were going to get a good shop that knows how to do alignment as well as the weight. Thanks for the Pics on those locations. Now for the last few bits. where did you find the ASE Inspector? Ive been asking around shops in Bastrop trying to find one, no luck From here i will be following you on the licensing process and how it goes. Thanks Doug

[RoadRacer]

Hey James

Following your process with getting your ride legal. I'm probably 4-5 months behind you on my Coupe. Was curious on where you were going to get a good shop that knows how to do alignment as well as the weight. Thanks for the Pics on those locations. Now for the last few bits. where did you find the ASE Inspector? I've been asking around shops in Bastrop trying to find one, no luck From here I will be following you on the licensing process and how it goes. Thanks Doug

No worries Doug. I got the alignment and ASE inspection done at the same place - Excalibur Auto https://excaliburautorepair.com/ - speak to Mike. They've done a lot of these ASE inspections. They did a Superformance Cobra yesterday. Friendly, helpful, and cheap. The weight I did in Taylor at Williamson County Grain just because it's a lovely country road and a farmer friend said they got weighed when picking up grain. Great location for us car guys because it has no step/lip.. just drive onto a smooth surface. I was worried about ground clearance. Cost $8!

It's a little scary and I keep expecting to be stopped, but no sniff of police yet. I got a 30-day temporary tag and insurance so I'm not illegal, but I'm still only doing drives for a reason (alignment, weight, inspection) .. not wanting to push it and go for coffee just in case :D

[RoadRacer]

BTW Doug, I'm not sure what threads you've been following but the key docs are ones that are really hard to find by searching google for tx registration etc. "RBT" is the trick..

search for RTB 010-20 (make sure you find one dated June 11, 2020) and RTB 004-12 (seems to be on forums but not on TXgov anymore)

The latest 010-20 is gold, because they made some changes in the process.

[dstelter]

Thanks for the info James. I found the RTB 010-20 and TRB004-12. bookmarked them. Doug

[RoadRacer]

Ok, I found a SNAFU in the process.. not sure yet whether it was my mistake or theirs, I will get to look into this tonight hopefully.

I showed up at the DMV - you have to make an appointment here, and they only give you 1 day of options, so you have to look at 12:01 AM each day to find a spot. Anyway, I got there with all my paperwork and they started checking them off. We got to the VTR-68A "an inspection conducted by a law enforcement officer to verify the identify of a vehicle for registration purposes" - basically a VIN check (from what I can tell).

I hadn't done this step because RTB 010-20's sample letter shows this - my implication was that only one of the checkboxes was needed, and I have the MSO, and I don't need "an assigned number".

144036

Anyway, they sent me away for the CTR-68A, and then I find that there is nowhere in Austin to do this, and I have to make an appt in a nearby county and there is a THREE WEEK WAITING LIST. Yes, my appt for this is 3/29. UGH..

If I can find justification for not needing this form, I'll go back to DMV and plead my case.. nothing to lose!

[j33ptj]

If it had been "radio-boxes" you would have only needed to select one, obviously this being check boxes, they all needed to be ticked... :D

It is a tick the box exercise afterall....

RJ

[RoadRacer]

I never mentioned the fuel leak.. when I looked Sunday and turned on the electric pump there was a huge stream of gas pumping out the weep holes in the top of the mechanical pump. Apparently means a damaged diaphragm.. on a new pump with 150 Miles on it.

So I ran to the store and grabbed a new one, and spent 3 frustrating hours fitting it. The inlet and outlet weren’t in same place and there was interference with the chassis, and the casting was thicker so I needed longer bolts. Anyway it was a pain but it’s in now and working great again.

[RoadRacer]

I took a trip into town today to pick up a renewal of my 30-day temporary registration. In TX you're allowed 3 of these, for 90 days driving while you get all the title/reg stuff sorted.

Went fine, in-and-out, $29.75 cash. The car is driving well, much less tramlining since adjusting the rear tire pressures. Now running ~20-22 all around. Got it up to 90mph today briefly and building confidence.

Any excuse for prolonging the drive, I went to Specs to pick up some booze the missus said we were low on.

144096

Coming back on a bumpy section of 290 I still bottomed out at the rear, so I may add another 1/4" to the rear shocks. It's happening a lot less, but I'd like it to stop altogether so I don't get sudden loss of traction.

[JOP33]

Also remember that if you are bottoming out occasionally driving by yourself, you are likely to bottom out more often with a passenger - if you choose to let people ride with you :p

[RoadRacer]

I've heard of this issue before, but until recently hadn't seen it myself. But now with some miles on the car, there's a bit of slop in the last UJ as it attaches to the rack. All the other joints are pretty tight and slop-free.

But this last one needs some work. The input side from the column is great. The output side to the rack actually wobbles a little - not just loose in a turning motion, but seems to be loose side-to-side. Both set screws were already as tight as I can get them. I suppose it's impractical to think I can drill straight through the UJ and rack shaft, and that would require drilling off the car so would be hard to get accurate anyway.

Suggestions?

144544

[33fromSD]

Mileage: 329

I've heard of this issue before, but until recently hadn't seen it myself. But now with some miles on the car, there's a bit of slop in the last UJ as it attaches to the rack. All the other joints are pretty tight and slop-free.

But this last one needs some work. The input side from the column is great. The output side to the rack actually wobbles a little - not just loose in a turning motion, but seems to be loose side-to-side. Both set screws were already as tight as I can get them. I suppose it's impractical to think I can drill straight through the UJ and rack shaft, and that would require drilling off the car so would be hard to get accurate anyway.

Suggestions?

144544

Hi James

Is it the UJ itself (meaning defective) or do you think it's in the intersection where the shaft is inserted in the UJ end? You could always try dimpling the shaft by drilling into it slightly so the set screw goes slightly deeper.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Hi James

Is it the UJ itself (meaning defective) or do you think it's in the intersection where the shaft is inserted in the UJ end? You could always try dimpling the shaft by drilling into it slightly so the set screw goes slightly deeper.

Jim

Yeah, I had done the drill dimpling part, but of course the set screws aren't there for tightening per se, more for security? The splines should be the primary engagement. It seems that it's just not engaged deep enough, which is why it's wobbly side-to-side. I'm not worried really because it can't come apart, but I would like to get rid of the wobble. thinking

But it's a good point, reminding me of the dimpling. That has marked the shaft where I could drill it accurately in a drill press.

[33fromSD]

Yeah, I had done the drill dimpling part, but of course the set screws aren't there for tightening per se, more for security? The splines should be the primary engagement. It seems that it's just not engaged deep enough, which is why it's wobbly side-to-side. I'm not worried really because it can't come apart, but I would like to get rid of the wobble. thinking

But it's a good point, reminding me of the dimpling. That has marked the shaft where I could drill it accurately in a drill press.

Another option which I've seen guys do on other forums with success (haven't seen it on FFR yet) is you could put a dab or two of JB weld on the end of the UJ onto the shaft to fuse the two together. That way you could still remove it later in life (It may fight you a bit coming apart if you have to remove it, but it will come apart).

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Another option which I've seen guys do on other forums with success (haven't seen it on FFR yet) is you could put a dab or two of JB weld on the end of the UJ onto the shaft to fuse the two together. That way you could still remove it later in life (It may fight you a bit coming apart if you have to remove it, but it will come apart).

Jim

Good idea, I've never used it myself. Certainly easier than drilling. I want to take it apart when I have a chance to make sure it is engaged 'enough' - if not perhaps I can get a longer bar and move closer to the rack.

Thanks

[33fromSD]

Good idea, I've never used it myself. Certainly easier than drilling. I want to take it apart when I have a chance to make sure it is engaged 'enough' - if not perhaps I can get a longer bar and move closer to the rack.

Thanks

If memory serves me right I believe you should be able to look from the back of the UJ (in through the joint) to see how far the shaft is engaged. That would save you from taking it apart at least if it turned out to be in far enough.

Also, JB weld is good stuff... I've used it on several applications......sets in 15 minutes, fully cured in 30. Jim

[RoadRacer]

Fitted the replacement oil pressure gauge from FFR this morning in between meetings, then grabbed a quick backroad 30 miles to 'test it'. Works perfectly, 40-50psi.

144632

[RoadRacer]

Here's the steering joint. Stare at it for a bit and you'll see it isn't perfectly stable/tight on the steering rack side.


https://youtu.be/DTsi6wmWKWA

[RoadRacer]

Cannot wait until tomorrow - after waiting 3 weeks for an appt I finally get to get the VTR-68A filled in by the Sheriffs Auto Theft task Force.

I was going to get the car on the lift and check everything today but didn't feel up to it, got shingles 2 weeks ago which sucks! Cars being going well, although it did flood at a traffic light yesterday which was very odd. Maybe something stuck a needle. When I looked in the carb, gas was flooding out of the primary side, but after cranking it started again and ran fine. Brand new carb so we'll see if that happens again.

Re: the steering joint above, FFR saw the video and said to mark where the set screws are (3 in this joint) and drill some dimples so the screws can grip better. I think I may have done that with 1 of them, but it's been a long while, so I'll check when on the lift.

[dstelter]

James,

How did the Sheriffs inspection go? guessing you had to go into Austin for Travis County Sheriff?

Doug

[RoadRacer]

James,

How did the Sheriffs inspection go? guessing you had to go into Austin for Travis County Sheriff?

Doug


Hey Doug, yeah, was a real non-event! All of the central TX options have been shutdown for a year, except one - the Georgetown (Williamson County) location is the only one left. Hence the 3 week's I had to wait for an appt. Disappointing to wait so long for a piece of paper, but hopefully everyone can learn from that - book early in the process!!

So what happened yesterday was that I drove in, two Sheriffs said Hi, nice car, what is it? One of them was interested because their Dad wants a Factory Five, so that got them chatting. I handed them the VTR-68A (https://www.wilco.org/Portals/0/Departments/Tax/68-A%20Information.pdf) and the $40 money order, and two photos - the engine number and the chassis number. They glanced inside at where I said it was, but that was it. Signed, stamped and out of there in under 10 minutes. It's not an inspection in any sense of the word.

BTW - and this is critical - my motor is a goodwrench crate motor that I bought secondhand, so the engine number stamped on the block is a generic ID, not a specific engine number. There is no engine number stamped on a crate motor, just "maybe" on an aluminum tag that everyone loses. So my motor is indistinguishable from any other GM crate motor. I was worried that this would be a problem, since the intent is to determine if any part was a stolen part. But, nothing happened!

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So, I went straight round to the DMV and submitted all the forms (~25 pages of them) and are now waiting for them to give me the last letter confirming I have all the pieces. Then the last step is to take everything to the county tax office. Man,there are a lot of steps, but they are all easy at least. The problem is that nowadays there is so much time between them, and so many people involved. Luckily Texas allows 3 x 30day temporary permits, and I bet I'll use all that 90 days to get a tag...

[33fromSD]

Awesome... one step closer!!

Yeah, I found 9 time out of 10 if you can get the person or people engaged in a pleasant conversion things typically go smoothly, it's the numbskulls who grow an attitude with these folks who tend to have the problems.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Got a day in the garage to throw it up on the quickjack and check everything underneath. Didn't find anything loose or bent or damaged, which was nice. Well, until I got to the motor and found one spark plug was dead somehow - looked fine but the exhaust temps were all 450-550deg except #7 which was 220deg. Swapped out the plug - couldn't see anything wrong with it, but afterwards the pipes were all same temp. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also found #8 plug was loose, but not terribly so.

Worst part was the front upper boots. They had both come off the upper balljoints, so I'll have to look into that before it trashes the balljoints.

145578

[RoadRacer]

My engine has been sounding like a bag of bolts recently, horrible rattles like every rocker needs adjusting. Loud as hell. Anyway I hoped it was the fuel pump.. I had installed a high volume Holley recently. So today I got tired of it and decided to remove the mechanical pump and rely on my electric pump that I had as backup.

I removed the mechanical, removed the pushrod and blanked it off. I took the car out tonight and.. it was the pump! The engine is now purring along. No rattles.

No idea why the Holley was so loud, the pushrod looked normal, no wear. Oh well!

Next I will try to align the car with the new 4 wheel kit I just bought. Trying to improve the tramlining.

[RoadRacer]

I bought a 4-wheel alignment kit from here recently, so assembled that and started checking the alignment that a local shop put on.

They said they had 3.0/3.1deg caster set, but I only see 2.4/2.6deg which seems a little low, especially considering my quite severe tramlining. So I'll increase the caster to 3.5-4deg and sacrifice some steering effort in the hope of getting better straight-line stability. The extra negative camber around corners won't hurt.

But there's no obvious (to me at least) way to adjust caster. I'm used to adding shims/washers on the upper a-arm to move it back to increase caster. But I have no upper A arm and no space for shims on the upper links that I do have.

I'll ask on a new thread too, but anyone have recommendations on the best way to adjusting caster/camber on the 33 setup?

[RoadRacer]

ok, I re-read Dr Ruths alignment sticky (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3339-Do-it-yourself-alignment) again carefully (I find it hard to understand), and got this:

Adjust front lower control arm for caster
Adjust the rear lower control arm for camber
Finally adjust toe using tierods

Wallace18 seems to corroborate this in this other thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12357-Camber-Caster-Adjustment)

[RoadRacer]

Had some fun yesterday with my new alignment setup. Overall, it works well and is easy to use.

I did find (as suspected) that the shop alignment had given me way too little caster, which would explain the skittishness. I measured 2deg on both sides, but camber and toe were on spec. I wound in/out the front lower link to set new caster, and initially set 4deg, then later increased to 5deg. Still a work-in-progress as I try what I like.

To make it faster, I made notes of the length of thread exposed at both ends of the rod and plotted that against measured caster in a spreadsheet. This allows me to quickly set caster to whatever degree I want by measuring threads. It's a pretty straight line - of course it's not exact, but saves me some time as I experiment with what feels good on the crazy country roads.

The graphs below show drivers and passenger exposed thread length vs deg caster. FWIW, the sides were different so I expect the rods aren't exact same length. The rod lengths only need to be adjusted a few millimeters!

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[33fromSD]

Had some fun yesterday with my new alignment setup. Overall, it works well and is easy to use.

I did find (as suspected) that the shop alignment had given me way too little caster, which would explain the skittishness. I measured 2deg on both sides, but camber and toe were on spec. I wound in/out the front lower link to set new caster, and initially set 4deg, then later increased to 5deg. Still a work-in-progress as I try what I like.

To make it faster, I made notes of the length of thread exposed at both ends of the rod and plotted that against measured caster in a spreadsheet. This allows me to quickly set caster to whatever degree I want by measuring threads. It's a pretty straight line - of course it's not exact, but saves me some time as I experiment with what feels good on the crazy country roads.

The graphs below show drivers and passenger exposed thread length vs deg caster. FWIW, the sides were different so I expect the rods aren't exact same length. The rod lengths only need to be adjusted a few millimeters!

146546 146547

Very nice...what alignment system did you go with James?

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Very nice...what alignment system did you go with James?

Jim

Jim, I got the Tenhulzen 4 wheel alignment setup (https://www.wheelalignmenttools.com/product/4-wheel-alignment-system/) ("one gauge+string frame" option). Bought it off another member, still boxed!

[33fromSD]

Jim, I got the Tenhulzen 4 wheel alignment setup (https://www.wheelalignmenttools.com/product/4-wheel-alignment-system/) ("one gauge+string frame" option). Bought it off another member, still boxed!

Thanks James

[33fromSD]

Jim, I got the Tenhulzen 4 wheel alignment setup (https://www.wheelalignmenttools.com/product/4-wheel-alignment-system/) ("one gauge+string frame" option). Bought it off another member, still boxed!

You need to stop posting cool stuff like this...I ended up ordering it. :rolleyes:

I also already have the Fast Trax alignment tool but it only does caster & camber and is a little clunky to use.

[RoadRacer]

You need to stop posting cool stuff like this...I ended up ordering it. :rolleyes:

I also already have the Fast Trax alignment tool but it only does caster & camber and is a little clunky to use.

LOL ;) this is my first tool so I cannot compare..

[RoadRacer]

I went for a drive with 5deg caster and much improved but I can’t help thinking there’s more to get. I’ve upped it to the 7deg that I see for power steering cars. Bizarrely I’m not getting any heaviness of steering - or at least it’s still acceptable. I’m on 285 fronts so obviously it’s heavy at slow speeds but I don’t mind that.

Fun playing with the setup!

[cob427sc]

Did you solve the loose joint at the steering rack spline? I have the same problem and have spot drilled to no success as it keeps loosening after only a few miles of driving. I don't think it will fall of but makes a lot of play in the steering which is unsettling. I'm actually thinking of welding the joint to the shaft - what's the chance that this will ever be taken apart? It seems that the spline cut of the joint is slightly oversized and there is no way to make it fit tighter on the shaft.

[RoadRacer]

Did you solve the loose joint at the steering rack spline? I have the same problem and have spot drilled to no success as it keeps loosening after only a few miles of driving. I don't think it will fall of but makes a lot of play in the steering which is unsettling. I'm actually thinking of welding the joint to the shaft - what's the chance that this will ever be taken apart? It seems that the spline cut of the joint is slightly oversized and there is no way to make it fit tighter on the shaft.

Sorry, yes, I must not have posted that. I tried drilling the rack shaft but it's hard as you-know-what and I couldn't drill it on the car. So I followed Jim's idea and pulled off the UJ where it attached to the steering rack, covered the splines generously with 6-minute JB weld, then re-fitted and snugged up again with the grub screws. I have never used this stuff before and was skeptical, but it worked like a charm. It set like it was one piece. Miles later there is still ZERO play in my bottom joint.

Yes, it's a pretty severe fix, but it was literally 15 mins work and I only applied to one side so I figure if I ever need it off I can still remove from the other side of the joint. I just wanted that slop gone.. and so far it looks perfect.

[33fromSD]

Sorry, yes, I must not have posted that. I tried drilling the rack shaft but it's hard as you-know-what and I couldn't drill it on the car. So I followed Jim's idea and pulled off the UJ where it attached to the steering rack, covered the splines generously with 6-minute JB weld, then re-fitted and snugged up again with the grub screws. I have never used this stuff before and was skeptical, but it worked like a charm. It set like it was one piece. 1000 miles later there is still ZERO play in my bottom joint.

Yes, it's a pretty severe fix, but it was literally 15 mins work and I only applied to one side so I figure if I ever need it off I can still remove from the other side of the joint. I just wanted that slop gone.. and so far it looks perfect.

Glad to hear it worked out for you...JB-Weld is good stuff.

Jim

[33fromSD]

LOL ;) this is my first tool so I cannot compare..

The Tenhulzen alignment set up (one gauge+string frame) showed up today...guess once I get all the paint stuff and the interior done I'll be at ~ride weight (minus passengers) so then I'll be ready to give this gizmo a try.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Jim's always posting super impressive paint updates, so today is mine (LOL).

I woke up and thought why don't I rattle-can my hardtop? I bought it second hand and the previous owner had bondo'd and sanded the top, but not painted, so the filler has been exposed and the gelcoat was all matt from sanding. So I thought I'd tidy it up a bit - but certainly not to any standard at all. Just minor prep and rattle can.

And by minor, I mean this :D

146896 146897

some masking, some sanding, some washing, bought a tack rag from local autozone, then started spraying with white universal primer. Rattle can is hard to get looking nice :D but after some sanding and 5 cans I got it good enough. I was going to then do gloss black but I realized gloss black is going to be much harder than a matt white.. and I was quite digging the white top on a black body - perhaps the local cops will like it? ;)

So I left it as-is, and we'll see what happens next.

146898 146899 146900

[33fromSD]

Mileage: 1202

Jim's always posting super impressive paint updates, so today is mine (LOL).

I woke up and thought why don't I rattle-can my hardtop? I bought it second hand and the previous owner had bondo'd and sanded the top, but not painted, so the filler has been exposed and the gelcoat was all matt from sanding. So I thought I'd tidy it up a bit - but certainly not to any standard at all. Just minor prep and rattle can.

And by minor, I mean this :D

146896 146897

some masking, some sanding, some washing, bought a tack rag from local autozone, then started spraying with white universal primer. Rattle can is hard to get looking nice :D but after some sanding and 5 cans I got it good enough. I was going to then do gloss black but I realized gloss black is going to be much harder than a matt white.. and I was quite digging the white top on a black body - perhaps the local cops will like it? ;)

So I left it as-is, and we'll see what happens next.

146898 146899 146900

Looks great James....nice job... it's amazing how much color changes these cars

Jim

[FF33rod]

Totally different look. Maybe put a small red pail upside down on the roof now too and you can be a 1933 cop car !

Steve

[RoadRacer]

PSA - Don't forget to check your balance bar everyone :). My brakes were adequate, but I finally got to the point where I could check the balance bar again - I thought I'd set it up correctly according to the manual a long time ago, but I obviously hadn't. The bar was equal "at rest", where it should be angled towards the front master cylinder. So I adjusted it, and brakes certainly feel better.

[cob427sc]

I just did the same readjustment of the balance bar and it improved the brake feel tremendously. It was previously setup neutral and took a lot of pressure to firmly stop the car. Now with the bar favoring the front but quite a lot, the brake pedal takes less pressure and is easier to stop. I've practiced high speed stops and don't feel any issues with stopping power or straight line stops.

[peterh226]

I just did the same readjustment of the balance bar and it improved the brake feel tremendously. It was previously setup neutral and took a lot of pressure to firmly stop the car. Now with the bar favoring the front but quite a lot, the brake pedal takes less pressure and is easier to stop. I've practiced high speed stops and don't feel any issues with stopping power or straight line stops.
Can you take a picture of where your adjuster ended up?

[RoadRacer]

I’m away right now Peter and can’t take pic but I’ll tell you I wound the front MC thread until it was flush with the front side of the balance bar.. basically as far as the front could be done safely. I didn’t adjust the rear side though so I still have some adjustment on the side if I need. Hth

[JOP33]

I had actually gone a bit too far forward with my BB adjustment & was experiencing to much Front Brake...they were locking up & sliding at stops (on slight gravel & at indoor shows on polished floors). I just recently backed off some of the front & also installed a Wilwood Brake Bias Remote Adjustment Knob under the dash. This allows me to dial it in a bit more conveniently.

[RoadRacer]

Not a great day today - finally got notice from the DMV that my goodwrench crate motor bill-of-sale (from the original owner) isn't good enough. They need a VIN from the car it was pulled from. Er.. there was no car. It's a crate motor, I say.

Their answer was, ok, well then we need the car appraised and a bond in lieu of details for where the motor came from. The forms they give me CTR-130 and VTR-125 are bizarre, so I guess I'll be googling them. It appears I need to have the car professionally appraised (lord know why) and then I'm applying for a bonded title?!

Good grief... I'm patient, but I'm nearly 90 days into this process now, with delays and bureaucracy every step of the way.

[33fromSD]

That sucks

Jim

[33fromSD]

Hi James

Thinking about this some, I got my crate engine through BP Engines and they supplied a packet when my engine arrived that links the serial number on the new block to my purchase order, spec sheets, dyno charts, etc..

I don't know how Goodwrench Crate Motors do their provenance for their engines, or the life history / age of your engine (I know you note above you bought it off the original owner), but the serial number on your engine should be in GM's crate motor system and traceable back to them to show it was a new engine verses pulled from a donor.

Not sure if the previous owner could help with info on where they bought it from originally so you could contact the company for info or if the previous owner possibly still have the paper work from their purchase showing the serial number.

Sorry you're going through this.

Jim

[sread]

Well that does suck! I'm kind of in the same situation as all I have is a bill of sale from the guy I bought the kit from including a receipt where he bought it off Ebay. I wonder how much of it is just the luck of the draw depending on whose desk it crosses at DMV? That's totally asinine they would require that when you have a documented purchase of a new crate motor but for some reason doesn't surprise me at all.

[RoadRacer]

Hi James

Thinking about this some, I got my crate engine through BP Engines and they supplied a packet when my engine arrived that links the serial number on the new block to my purchase order, spec sheets, dyno charts, etc..

I don't know how Goodwrench Crate Motors do their provenance for their engines, or the life history / age of your engine (I know you note above you bought it off the original owner), but the serial number on your engine should be in GM's crate motor system and traceable back to them to show it was a new engine verses pulled from a donor.

Not sure if the previous owner could help with info on where they bought it from originally so you could contact the company for info or if the previous owner possibly still have the paper work from their purchase showing the serial number.

Sorry you're going through this.

Jim

Thanks Jim, part of the problem is that these motors don't have a serial number. The number on the block is more of a part number - they are all the same. So completely unidentifiable. I can't track the original seller anymore (all done through craigslist and the records are gone). So I'm working with an appraiser now :)

[FF33rod]

Man James, that is frustrating! hope you get it sorted quickly

Steve

[33fromSD]

Thanks Jim, part of the problem is that these motors don't have a serial number. The number on the block is more of a part number - they are all the same. So completely unidentifiable. I can't track the original seller anymore (all done through craigslist and the records are gone). So I'm working with an appraiser now :)

That really stinks James, sorry you're going through this.

This is where BP Engine is doing it right......all their engines (reman block or fresh blocks) have a unique S/Ns stamped on the block (not one of these cheap aluminum tags bolted on that can be removed either) so at any point BP Engines can identify the engine / build, look up components used based on S/N, dyno info, age, etc. I ordered two 302's at the same time, one for my 33HR and the other for my 55 F100. This was one of the first things I asked at BP Engines. I wanted traceability.

Each came with a unique S/N that is not only stamped on the block, but my invoices for both engines references the different S/Ns, the dyno file name has the serial # in it, the build folder included has the serial #, etc.

302 Build Folders (S/Ns on folders match block)
147461

33HR Engine S/N Stamp
147459

55 F100 Engine S/N Stamp
147460

Jim

[J R Jones]

James,
For what it is worth, I have a 1968 300hp 327 SBC that is from an Excalibur. (Fresh rebuild, and for sale) The block is number stamped but because the engine was not installed in a Chevy, it did not come off the assembly line. It is stamped with a number sequence for Service and Warranty engines. I do not know how one would document that source, and hope I do not have to.

[RoadRacer]

Ha, well getting an "appraisal" wasn't hard. lol. Get this.. I found https://autoappraisers.com/ and emailed them. They asked me a few questions and wanted a few photos.. and bam a filled-in VTR 125 came flying back to me for $100. No inspection, no driving.. they didn't directly asked me what I wanted the answer to be, but let's say I got what I wanted :D Obviously, I'm assuming a lower price is better than a higher one.

So back to the DMV this afternoon to see what else they can throw at me. :D

[33fromSD]

Ha, well getting an "appraisal" wasn't hard. lol. Get this.. I found https://autoappraisers.com/ and emailed them. They asked me a few questions and wanted a few photos.. and bam a filled-in VTR 125 came flying back to me for $100. No inspection, no driving.. they didn't directly asked me what I wanted the answer to be, but let's say I got what I wanted :D Obviously, I'm assuming a lower price is better than a higher one.

So back to the DMV this afternoon to see what else they can throw at me. :D

Awesome...great job....I started my registration process today. SoDak actually changed how they do kit cars 6 months ago, so now I needed to fill in an application for Title & Registration as well as filled in a parts affidavit for a rebuild (they now consider Manufactured Kits as rebuilds) and had to send in my MSO paper work and all receipts into the state. In 2-4 weeks they will contact me for a location to take the car for an inspection which will be interesting since they didn't give me a temp plate so I guess I'll trailer it there.

Once the inspection is done the state sends the paperwork through for a title and I can get my title & license. Thinking they make that sound too smooth. Interestingly enough though, once of the questions on the affidavit was engine serial number and proof of invoice (with S/N) listed if it wasn't pulled from another vehicle. Glad I had what I had from BP.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Awesome...great job....I started my registration process today. SoDak actually changed how they do kit cars 6 months ago, so now I needed to fill in an application for Title & Registration as well as filled in a parts affidavit for a rebuild (they now consider Manufactured Kits as rebuilds) and had to send in my MSO paper work and all receipts into the state. In 2-4 weeks they will contact me for a location to take the car for an inspection which will be interesting since they didn't give me a temp plate so I guess I'll trailer it there.

Once the inspection is done the state sends the paperwork through for a title and I can get my title & license. Thinking they make that sound too smooth. Interestingly enough though, once of the questions on the affidavit was engine serial number and proof of invoice (with S/N) listed if it wasn't pulled from another vehicle. Glad I had what I had from BP.

Jim

Can you not get 30 day temp plates from local office? Ours are $30 cash, 10 min job. Anyway, good luck!!

[33fromSD]

Can you not get 30 day temp plates from local office? Ours are $30 cash, 10 min job. Anyway, good luck!!

Thanks James...yeah, I asked that about the temp plates and the clerk told me that is a question to ask when the state calls me about the inspection details. No worries, worst case I'll trailer it.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

I got a few minutes last night to crank up the caster even more. I want to feel it.. want it to be stable at speed. 6deg wasn't cutting it. So I went to 12deg.. LOL. Today, I can feel it. The steering certainly has some self-centering :D And when I turn the wheels, they look like they are about to fall over they have so much camber.

I may dial it back a touch.. but I have to say it drives great on the freeway. I was peddling along and looked down and saw 110mph and it was like steady as a rock. Love that.

[RoadRacer]

Ok, so the DMV just accepted my appraisal (although he said "no idea why my manager needs this for a VIN-less motor") and will let me know next week if the now-quite-large pile of papers is approved. Then I can pick it up and carry it to the tax office for the actual tag process. I'll be starting my 4th 90-day "temporary" tag - at this point it feels more permanent! - on Tuesday.

Fingers crossed.

I found and picked 3 personalized plate numbers 3 months ago - its part of the Street Rod form to pick these numbers - amazingly there are all still available. I still can't believe they are.. I'll let you know them all once I get one :D

If you're in TX, check the plates (and number availability) at https://www.myplates.com/

[RoadRacer]

Made me smile.. my dashcam saves special events like hard braking or crashing automatically.. apparently it also creates clips due to “harsh acceleration” too. Not sure this really counts.


https://youtu.be/h4ghrSTQTzU

[RoadRacer]

Spent 3 hours going over alignment again, to further experiment with the balance between high speed stability and cornering responsiveness. I had 12-14deg caster and it was super steady, but hard to corner. So today I went through it again, set 8deg caster, 0.8deg camber, 1/16" toe-in, cos I'm preparing for my first autocross event, and short-course cornering is important.

Went out again after these changes, and it's certainly less stable but still good enough at 100mph, but cornering/steering much improved. I'll spend the month between now and autocross getting used to this setup..

[33fromSD]

Mileage 1695

Spent 3 hours going over alignment again, to further experiment with the balance between high speed stability and cornering responsiveness. I had 12-14deg caster and it was super steady, but hard to corner. So today I went through it again, set 8deg caster, 0.8deg camber, 1/16" toe-in, cos I'm preparing for my first autocross event, and short-course cornering is important.

Went out again after these changes, and it's certainly less stable but still good enough at 100mph, but cornering/steering much improved. I'll spend the month between now and autocross getting used to this setup..

Where are you doing the autocross event James? Sounds like a blast.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Circuit of the Americas (COTA) has a Spokes club event in one of the large parking lots on June 20. Can’t wait!

[33fromSD]

Circuit of the Americas (COTA) has a Spokes club event in one of the large parking lots on June 20. Can’t wait!

Nice...have fun.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

The title saga continues. I hadnt heard from the DMV so I made an appointment to see them. They said that it was rejected again because the form VTR-61 "Rebuilt Vehicle Statement" needed more information about the work I had done to the car. They handed me two blank sheets of paper and asked me to document "what I'd done". OMG.. so I did that, writing down every step, and handed it back in.

A few hours later I get a call that my paperwork is ready to pick up and take to the County Tax Office who actually create the title. I picked it up and the letter on the front says that I need to get a bond for 1.5x the appraised value because the car's identity cannot be proven - all because of the crate motor.

So I go get a bond at a cost of $550.

Next on the letter it says "The vehicle does not qualify for Classic, Antique, Custom Vehicle or Street Rod license plates" - which may be a much bigger deal.. I'll have to find out.

Here in TX, we all apply for Street Rod title because it means no annual inspection, all regs are per 1933, etc. So I don't yet know what this bonded title is going to mean.. if it gets bad enough I may be forced to buy a new motor and start this process all over.

What a complete sh*t show!! And no way to appeal apparently.

[33fromSD]

Well that sucks, hope it works out for you.

I'm still waiting to hear back on all my paper work I had to submit too.

Jim

[FF33rod]

oh man, that really sucks, feeling for you!

Steve

[RoadRacer]

Any of you with no hood or sides or fenders will know that there are a few drawbacks - everything gets dirty and oily andy buggy and you have to really be sure to miss puddles :D

But today, I found the best reason to go without front panels EVER - has anyone changed their oil? LOL You can just kneel down and reach out and undo the filter, drain the oil and be done in 5 mins without any bloody knuckles or swearing. It's a dream!

Jim, sorry, you're still gonna have to do it the old way.

[RoadRacer]

I had a godawful permanent screech coming from the driver's rear brakes so I threw the car up on the quickjack today and inspected all the brakes. All other corners were fine, but the drivers rear I found something odd - not sure if I screwed this up when fitting it but 3 of the 4 hardware clips were completely f'd. Huge bits missing from them. Any ideas?

Anyway, a quick trip to the local store and I got new hardware (no need to buy the pads luckily), and now the screech has gone!

148713 148714

[33fromSD]

Odd...never seen that before

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Weird follow-on brake problem. I decided to bleed the brakes again to try to improve pedal. I found no bubbles on front but when I tried the rear I got a different story. First I got air out and the wife inside said the pedal went much harder. Great!

Next day I took it for a drive.. and could barely stop at the bottom of the drive. Pedal went soft. Back on the lift and I find that rear brakes can’t even stop me turning the rotors by hand. I would the balance bar back to favor the rear- still no rear brakes. I rebled and found that I couldn’t get but a bare dribble of fluid out of either rear. Tried bleeding for a while and got nothing - no air but barely any fluid either.

So either the mother of all air blocks or a dodgy master cylinder?

I ordered a vacuum bleeder (always wanted one) to see if I can pull fluid through, so cars out of commission for a day. I have a spare MC so not sure whether to throw that on while I wait..

[33fromSD]

Weird follow-on brake problem. I decided to bleed the brakes again to try to improve pedal. I found no bubbles on front but when I tried the rear I got a different story. First I got air out and the wife inside said the pedal went much harder. Great!

Next day I took it for a drive.. and could barely stop at the bottom of the drive. Pedal went soft. Back on the lift and I find that rear brakes can’t even stop me turning the rotors by hand. I would the balance bar back to favor the rear- still no rear brakes. I rebled and found that I couldn’t get but a bare dribble of fluid out of either rear. Tried bleeding for a while and got nothing - no air but barely any fluid either.

So either the mother of all air blocks or a dodgy master cylinder?

I ordered a vacuum bleeder (always wanted one) to see if I can pull fluid through, so cars out of commission for a day. I have a spare MC so not sure whether to throw that on while I wait..

Vacuum bleeder is the way to go. I bought one about 5 years ago and have not used any other method since.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Vacuum bleeder is the way to go. I bought one about 5 years ago and have not used any other method since.

Jim

Which one do you have Jim? After reading lots of reviews I got this: Capri Tools CP21029 Vacuum Brake Bleeder (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OM751EC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[33fromSD]

Which one do you have Jim? After reading lots of reviews I got this: Capri Tools CP21029 Vacuum Brake Bleeder (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OM751EC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I have an el-cheapo one...works great though

Jim

https://www.amazon.com/Titan-51885-1-Liter-Vacuum-Bleeder/dp/B016YW6XL2/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=vacuum+bleeder&qid=1622483278&sr=8-24

[FF33rod]

Ages ago in the build I got something pretty much identical to this https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-Tech-Bleeder-Automotive/dp/B08H4N69BR/ref=sr_1_10?crid=3B3YN0ZUT769P&dchild=1&keywords=vacuum+bleeder+kit+for+brakes&qid=1622484972&sprefix=vacuum+bleeder%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-10

Absolute crap. The attachment to the bleeder nipple is very difficult to get a seal on - not enough sizes to get something to work. In the end, it's easier to recruit someone to come help than to try to use this single handed. The ones you guys are looking at look better.

Steve

[RoadRacer]

ok, so I'll call this success, and as is usual it's not the kit but the builder :D

We talk a lot about 3400lb mustang GT brakes surely being good enough on a 2200lb car, but it's taken me until today to figure it out. TLDR; I hadn't bench-bled my MC's.

I spent all morning trying to bleed the rears. So many thoughts running through my head - I had run my crossover line from drivers-passenger side up on the highest chassis member and looking today I thought that was my issue - how was I going to get air out of that big inverted U? Do I have to refab that line? The front MC was like a rock, the rear was very soft. But I couldn't get any air out of the rear brakes - in fact barely any fluid. The MC must be broken? What a pain to replace it in a finished car..

As a last resort I sat and thought about bleeding the MC in situ - I'd need something to screw into the outlet, and didn't have any spare brake line or fittings. What else could I do?

Then I realized I had a real nasty $10 hand pump "bleeder" that I use to suck fluid around.. so I figured, why not, I'll try and force the fluid from the caliper to MC, and any air trapped there would be able to make it those 6 inches. So that's what I did - almost emptied the reservoir, cracked the nipple, and forced half a reservoir's worth of fluid up there.. and straight away I heard those wonderful bubbling sounds. Did it on all four wheels but the first one was the best. Emptied the reservoir, forced it back through each nipple.

Now the pedal is much harder. I just test drove it and NOW the mustang brakes seem wonderful!

I'll have to wait and see if it goes soft again; then I can look into replacing the MC. But today ended on a high.

Oh, one more thing - setting the balance bar. I have it almost horizontal now after the bleeding, but I am using the different size MC's which give me some bias already (.625 rear, .75 front). I tried to lock up the tires to see which locked first (on a VERY empty frontage road) and couldn't lock them up at all. It stopped very quickly, but damn I'm going to be standing on it to lock them up. I'll keep trying, but how easy is it for everyone to lock up tires? I tried from 40 and then 65.. it just stopped. Pretty amazing weight transfer, felt like it was going on tiptoe.

[RoadRacer]

Fitted a heel stop to see how it helps - probably not a huge need on the road (perhaps longer trips) but mainly for autocross. Just 3 weeks to go, so I probably have to stop tweaking my car and getting used to the current setup ;)

148851 148852

[RoadRacer]

Well, I have a license plate and a tax sticker. The tax office says "I'm done"!

But, we'll see. I have an appt to go back into the DMV tomorrow to discuss my title. I really don't know what I have, and no one can explain it fully. Do I need annual inspections? No idea. Can I get a vanity plate - apparently NO, but no one knows why. So that's another disappointment because I had some great plates picked out.

Hopefully the DMV can look me up and give some proper answers now. :D


P.S. I had to pay the tax office ~$1600 in sales tax. No explanation where that number came from..

[33fromSD]

Congrats...at least you have a plate now.

I have my inspection tomorrow.....it's odd cause the letter they sent me already references a SoDak VIN # & title number so would the state issue those already before the inspection. I'm hoping the inspection is just a simple formality...guess we'll find out.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

I went to DMV this morning and they confirmed that the tax office "did it wrong". They're going to fix it, and add "Replica 1933 Ford" (as they must), and get some answers on street rod title, annual inspection, emissions, etc, etc.

They also said "of course you can buy a custom plate", so I did. I found lots of good ones available, but in the end I chose this..

148950

[33fromSD]

I went to DMV this morning and they confirmed that the tax office "did it wrong". They're going to fix it, and add "Replica 1933 Ford" (as they must), and get some answers on street rod title, annual inspection, emissions, etc, etc.

They also said "of course you can buy a custom plate", so I did. I found lots of good ones available, but in the end I chose this..

148950

Nice!!

[33fromSD]

Hi James

I need your alignment expertise since you and I have the same alignment tool / set up and you have spent a lot more cycles on alignment with this tool than I have.

I also am not 100% sure if mine running full fenders and using the lower control arm mounting holes verses upper control arm mounting holes your running will matter with some of the settings, but what have you found to be the best camber, caster , toe settings for general cruising / highway driving.

I have no plans to track this thing so I'm just looking for you're estimate for best specs for general driving.

Thanks in advance for the advice / help.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Hi James

I need your alignment expertise since you and I have the same alignment tool / set up and you have spent a lot more cycles on alignment with this tool than I have.

I also am not 100% sure if mine running full fenders and using the lower control arm mounting holes verses upper control arm mounting holes your running will matter with some of the settings, but what have you found to be the best camber, caster , toe settings for general cruising / highway driving.

I have no plans to track this thing so I'm just looking for you're estimate for best specs for general driving.

Thanks in advance for the advice / help.

Jim

Sure.. but bear in mind I wanted a slight bias to 90+mph driving. I wanted it to be stable and not wandering. It's all a balance of course.

FFR recommend: total toe 1/16" (0.0625), camber -0.5º, caster 3-4º (manual) 6-7º (power)

What I ended up with: same toe, same camber, 8º caster (on our machine that's a reading of 4º)

I don't quite know why, but I find 8º is still easy steering even without power steering. Sure, at 1mph you'll feel it, but it's not bothersome. Their recommendation of 3-4º made the car too unstable at speed and on bad roads for me - but there are a lot of factors. Since you have your own alignment rig, I honestly start with factory specs and see how it works for you. FFR aren't dummies, it's probably good for most.

[RoadRacer]

P.S. I have Gen1 which I think is different than yours - there is no "upper or lower hole" for me. Don't even remember what that means.. for shocks isn't it?

[33fromSD]

Sure.. but bear in mind I wanted a slight bias to 90+mph driving. I wanted it to be stable and not wandering. It's all a balance of course.

FFR recommend: total toe 1/16" (0.0625), camber -0.5º, caster 3-4º (manual) 6-7º (power)

What I ended up with: same toe, same camber, 8º caster (on our machine that's a reading of 4º)

I don't quite know why, but I find 8º is still easy steering even without power steering. Sure, at 1mph you'll feel it, but it's not bothersome. Their recommendation of 3-4º made the car too unstable at speed and on bad roads for me - but there are a lot of factors. Since you have your own alignment rig, I honestly start with factory specs and see how it works for you. FFR aren't dummies, it's probably good for most.

Thanks James....appreciate it. I realize each set up is slightly different, but it's great starting reference.

Jim

[33fromSD]

P.S. I have Gen1 which I think is different than yours - there is no "upper or lower hole" for me. Don't even remember what that means.. for shocks isn't it?


Got it....it's for shocks and the upper & lower control arms. On Gen 2 chassis there are now two sets of holes....The upper one is for no fenders / bike fenders and the lower one are for the full fender/running boards.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Did some more bleeding today, pressure first, then vacuum second. Have a good pedal now, so I took it out to an abandoned parking lot to see if I could lock up. I could, even at relatively low speed. It sure sounded like the fronts locked first, but the video evidence doesn't show the tires locked...


https://youtu.be/MlTMg1JvkyM

[RoadRacer]

https://youtu.be/mCAvEzozG5o

[RoadRacer]

https://youtu.be/LU6RHi0-yLs

[RoadRacer]

https://youtu.be/l-nGpZMq1Cw

[RoadRacer]

Lots of tweaks recently, now the car runs great I can get back to some things lower on the list.


I changed my turn signal LED's (on the dash) from green to yellow because the green ones were too dim to see in sunlight. According to Jegs, brightness increases from green, yellow/red, and blue being the brightest
I finally added a hinge and spring latch to my armrest
I applied my racing numbers ready for autocross (I used to run 167 on my GT40 replica - was what I was assigned randomly at Brighton Speed Trials in '93)
Last week I noticed that my radiator had been scuffed on the ground - not good since it's aluminum! Not bad damage, but I had the ability to easily raise it up without moving the grill at all, so that was this morning's job. I managed to raise the radiator 1.1", and gained another 1/4" by spinning the hose clamps so that the fasteners were on top rather than the bottom
I swapped in the lightest springs into my distributor to see if it helped the engine.. honestly, it runs strong but I couldn't tell the difference. But I did lower to 12deg initial.


149460 149461 149462

before:..149463 149464

after:....149465 149466

149467

[RoadRacer]

Loved the message this brand GoFastDontDie (https://www.gofastdontdie.com/pages/about-us) shares..

149647

[RoadRacer]

First autocross event is in the bag! Loads of fun and I got much better each run.. but looking at this (my fastest run) I was basically poncing about - seemed so fast in real time, and now looks so slow!

Looking forward to next time..


https://youtu.be/Y5yV_HFIrFQ

[j33ptj]

Sounds awesome!! love it!!!

[RoadRacer]

The event had a professional photographer there and was taking some very nice photos - here are some of the car. These are just lo-res screenshots but I'll be buying some of these from him for just $5 each. It's so rare to see photos of these cornering at speed.

149739 149740 149741 149742 149743 149744 149745

The fourth one has me studying the camber.. it sure looks like it gets into some positive camber states. I'm going to dial some more static camber in before the next event...and I think raise it a little more at the rear.. that roll at speed looks very close to scrubbing tire at the rear.

Anyone played with an anti-roll bar on these?

[FF33rod]

Cool, thanks for sharing! I did a track day about 2 years ago and remember looking at video afterward and wasn't impressed at all, it looks slow! a lot more fun when you're on the inside ;)

Steve

[j33ptj]

The event had a professional photographer there and was taking some very nice photos - here are some of the car. These are just lo-res screenshots but I'll be buying some of these from him for just $5 each. It's so rare to see photos of these cornering at speed.

149739 149740 149741 149742 149743 149744 149745

The fourth one has me studying the camber.. it sure looks like it gets into some positive camber states. I'm going to dial some more static camber in before the next event...and I think raise it a little more at the rear.. that roll at speed looks very close to scrubbing tire at the rear.

Anyone played with an anti-roll bar on these?

Toms 33 build thread has some pictures of a front roll bar, post #538 has a good one.

[RoadRacer]

Raised the rear spring cups up another 1/2" or so - 5 turns - to give me some more body clearance over bumps and autocross rolling. It's finally now touching the spring on full droop, and compressed it 2 turns.

I'm really not a fan of using the stiff springs to control roll too, so I'm talking to VPM about their anti-roll bars ("sway bars" seems common here). Having a front/rear bar will allow for much easier adjustment of under/oversteer - or at least that's the way I've always done it, so it's what I prefer. Plus having anti-roll bars could allow me to lower the spring rates eventually (but I do like the car to be low, so we'll see). They've sent me drawings of their 3link bar and the roadster front bar for me to measure against. Also looking at Jegs, ElephantRacing, etc to see what's out there.

I asked FFR if they had any plans for anti-roll bars and they said "We do not manufacture or have plans to do one for the Hot Rod, most customers can accomplish their suspension tuning with spring rates, shock adjustments and alignment specs." which is fair enough.

For now, I'll do exactly that.. I was quite severely pushing at autocross, so I'll be adding more front camber/caster to help with that.

BTW, I found a great summary of Understeer / Oversteer Tuning (https://www.elephantracing.com/tech-topics/understeer-oversteer/) that you might like to bookmark.

[RoadRacer]

Toms 33 build thread has some pictures of a front roll bar, post #538 has a good one.

Yeah, thanks, that looks like Dr Ruths. That's a backup option but not a fan of all the billet, or the price..

[RoadRacer]

Looking at my wheels this morning, was going to do another alignment, but had one of those ah-ha moments which took me in a different direction.

I realized that my wheels/tires were never planned - they were just a lucky buy from craigslist - $500 for 4 GT500 wheels and tires was a ridiculous steal. So I threw them on and they fit, so I've been using them. The rear wheels I want (19x13, 345x35 R19) are just so expensive that I'll be sticking with these for a while.

Anyway.. these are great but I realized I never measured the offset or estimated the scrub radius. I wonder how far out they are from "ideal"? No idea, and it's hard to measure accurately. But the manual does list some backspacing/offsets for different size wheels, and one of them is a nominal 10" wide, like mine (11" in real life). They quote 5.5" backspace with their 10" wheel. I have 7.25" backspace with mine. That's nearly 2" different.. quite a lot. That won't be helping with my tramlining (for want of a better word).

So I ordered some 1" spacers as an experiment. Increasing the front track 2" will also aid in front grip, giving me more oversteer, which is what I'm moving towards anyway. And the front is already 6" narrower than the front. So we'll see - maybe it'll help with the dynamics and not look too bad. We'll see..

[RoadRacer]

Just dropping this here.. it's properly titled, plated, and legal! Almost exactly 5 months to get to this point! I submitted my first batch of paperwork on Feb 9 :D

150123

[RoadRacer]

Looking at my wheels this morning, was going to do another alignment, but had one of those ah-ha moments which took me in a different direction.

I realized that my wheels/tires were never planned - they were just a lucky buy from craigslist - $500 for 4 GT500 wheels and tires was a ridiculous steal. So I threw them on and they fit, so I've been using them. The rear wheels I want (19x13, 345x35 R19) are just so expensive that I'll be sticking with these for a while.

Anyway.. these are great but I realized I never measured the offset or estimated the scrub radius. I wonder how far out they are from "ideal"? No idea, and it's hard to measure accurately. But the manual does list some backspacing/offsets for different size wheels, and one of them is a nominal 10" wide, like mine (11" in real life). They quote 5.5" backspace with their 10" wheel. I have 7.25" backspace with mine. That's nearly 2" different.. quite a lot. That won't be helping with my tramlining (for want of a better word).

So I ordered some 1" spacers as an experiment. Increasing the front track 2" will also aid in front grip, giving me more oversteer, which is what I'm moving towards anyway. And the front is already 6" narrower than the front. So we'll see - maybe it'll help with the dynamics and not look too bad. We'll see..
'
Ok, fitted the 1" spacers to front wheels, giving me effectively 6.25" backspace, compared with FFR's quoted 5.5". I had a quick circuit of my favorite test route and it does seem better, but I'm doing a 3hr round trip to a cars & coffee tomorrow so I'll get a better feel then. Regardless of the scrub radius, it'll also give me more front track/grip and I'm hoping for more oversteer in the twisty bits. My next autocross is 7/25.

[RoadRacer]

I don't often post just “driving videos” from my dashcam so here's one of the recent test drive - traffic around so only got past 100 for a short burst but felt good.


https://youtu.be/pXzoayAwhnM

[RoadRacer]

My 1" spacer experiment wasn't as positive as I'd hoped, so I did some math to see if I can work out the answer to "what is the ideal front wheel offset", while I wait for an answer from FFR. The point of all that follows is to compute where I want the scrub radius to be.. where the "KPI" will intersect the road. If it's too wrong, you will get a lot of instability and feedback through the steering on rough surfaces.

Note that I'm talking about offset not backspacing, since offset will work with any wheel width. Backspace is wheel-width specific - at least for my scrub radius purposes. Backspace is super specific if you're trying to make your wheels fit relatively to a physical constraint like a frame or suspension etc - that's not what I'm doing here. Without any bodywork I can put the wheel wherever I want.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO TELL ME WHERE I'M WRONG! I think this all makes sense, but I'm talking to myself here :D

FFR provided some wheel/tire suggestions in the manual, and I'm assuming they all work well, ie the scrub radius is where they recommend.


17x8, 245/40-17, 5.33" backspace, 30mm offset.
18x9, 255/35-18, 5.5" backspace
18x9.5, 275/35-18, 6" backspace


Given the backspace, we can calculate the offset using (backspace-0.5) - (wheel width/2):

(for a description of backspace, that strange 0.5" above (the lip) and why a 10" wheel is really 11" wide, see this article (https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/wheels/wheel-offset))


17x8, 5.33" backspace = 24.7mm offset
18x9, 5.5" backspace = 25.0mm
18x9.5, 6" backspace = 25.6mm


First I noticed that FFR says 30mm offset for wheel 1, but it's really 24.7mm. A small difference, but odd.

The tire heights range from 24.7" to 25.6" so the conclusion is that if your tires are in this ballpark, you ideally want a 25mm offset wheel. Coincidentally, ~1mm per inch of tire height which is easy to remember

My front tire is taller, at 26.85", so my offset should be a bit higher (27mm) so that the scrub radius is the same. (ignoring sidewall height, tire hardness etc all affecting the ideal scrub radius)

For comparison, my original offset on the GT500 wheel was 44.5mm, and with a 1" spacer is now 19mm. It seems that I overcorrected! 44mm is too high, but I want to end up at 27mm, so only needed an 18mm spacer.

But I was +17mm out before and now only -8mm out. Honestly I'm not sure how perfect this needs to be, but I'm having fun experimenting for very little money. I do want to get it all right though, before buying some expensive wheels (my goal is still 345/35-19 rears)

[FF33rod]

You've made the assumption that FFR has made the recommendations based on scrub radius but I'd be really surprised if that's the case. I think the question they get most often is how big a tire/wheel can I put on this puppy and so the manual gives that information for each fender style. Just my interpretation... By the way, my wife calls talking to herself "talk to a smart person" ;) you always get the best answers that way LOL

Steve

[RoadRacer]

You've made the assumption that FFR has made the recommendations based on scrub radius but I'd be really surprised if that's the case. I think the question they get most often is how big a tire/wheel can I put on this puppy and so the manual gives that information for each fender style. Just my interpretation... By the way, my wife calls talking to herself "talk to a smart person" ;) you always get the best answers that way LOL

Steve

haha Steve, yes! I totally get your POV, and I'm sure that's a big part of it. We all want a certain look. But I still give FFR props for engineering a good car. I do wish that they would share this kind of info though - for it seems there are a lot who would like real technical info; KPI and corresponding graphs of tire height ve offset, bump steer tracings, etc. I beleive that very few change the suspension setup, so it wouldn't be wasted effort and it would make everyone's cars drive better, which in turn is better marketing for them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was surprised by the interest in my car at autocross - everyone was all over it, and everyone was watching (no pressure)!

[j33ptj]

I didn't know what scrub circles etc were so googled it and came across this;

https://www.racingaspirations.com/apps/suspension-geometry-calculator/

Maybe of use, not sure how much of it can be modified to make it a HR33 specific calculation, the app seems more flexible on my iPad...

Robert

[RoadRacer]

Thanks Robert, yes I’ve seen that. The problem with all these things is measuring what you have, accurately. During building it would have been easier! Still I suppose I could create a jig one rainy weekend to measure all the pivot points.

[RoadRacer]

FYI, I received a reply from FFR regarding the designed offset/tire diameter data - they just sent me those same pages from the manual that I referenced earlier "’33 Hot Rod Wheel and Tire Recommendations", so I'm going to assume they consider their design protected IP.

Which is fair enough.. if anyone cared enough, they could measure and/or calculate it.

[RoadRacer]

Had my second autocross today - car ran much better, with way less understeer. The biggest problem is officially me. I had an experienced co-driver share my car today, and he was 2s quicker than me, in my own car :D

All my experience is on track, and although I can visualize the best lines around circuits, it's harder than I imagined to visualize the best lines around a parking lot with cones! Hopefully more seat time will help.

The funny thing was watching his runs on video vs mine - he seemed to be going much slower, much less drama. There was one section that I was always either very loose - or flatout spinning. He was taking an imaginary line that had no little relation to the cones. All this makes perfect sense intellectually, but not when the red mist descended. Fun stuff.

[RoadRacer]

Doing yet another alignment - seems I do one once a month! Adjusted toe some more, but left everything else the same. Always playing..

Biggest thing is getting close to buying my "real" wheels. Searching on 19x13 (really 14" wide) like these Forgestars (https://www.carid.com/forgestar-wheels/cf5v-satin-black-3303308599.html) with 345x35R19 Bridgestone Scuderia tires. These will give me 1.7" more rake and 3" more tire on the road.

Noone seems to sell 19x13 except for vipers with their 6x114.3 bolt pattern, but I need 2" spacers anyway, so I'll get 2" adapters (https://usadapters.com/products/6x4-5-6x114-3-to-5x4-5-5x114-3-wheel-adapters-12x1-25-studs-2-thick-2-pc-x2)

These wheels are +62mm (2.44") offset, so backspace is 9.44", compared with my current 7.25". With 2" adapters, I'll only go inwards 0.2" - plenty of room.

[RoadRacer]

Did my third autocross today.. here’s my best run. Still way off the pace - and it’s still all me, not the car. It’s amazing how hard autocross is to get good at. So much fun!


https://youtu.be/4w5UipZSYKU

[FF33rod]

Off pace? wow, that looked great to me!

Steve

[RoadRacer]

I keep coming back to weight transfer and the lack of sway bars.. especially every time I get photos from autocross that show the car rolling like crazy. Drives me nuts seeing this. Obviously, the weight transfer is going to happen, and this would be extreme on the street, but I just don't understand why we're not controlling it with sway bars. Even more so given the tuning capabilities of adjustable sway bars... and there's no downside to sway bars that I know of, except for maybe packaging - but there seem to be room.

Look at these:

152208 152209 152210 152211 152212

I was speaking to folks at the track yesterday and most of them recommended mocking something up with PVC pipe etc, and then sending the measurements to a place that can either supply parts (e.g. jegs) or can bend bars to spec. I know Bret Voelkel's Goodguys Nationals-winning 33 (https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/factory-five-ridetech-33-hot-rod-huge-national-autocross-win/) had great custom sway bars, but they don't have the plans.

Anyway, would love any thoughts on the pics above. Does anyone think I shouldn't add sway bars?

[HVACMAN]

I believe Dan Ruth used to sell a sway bar for the 33.

[RoadRacer]

I believe Dan Ruth used to sell a sway bar for the 33.

Yes, he did/does but I'm not a fan of that option. It doesn't seem to be adjustable, for one thing..