Stupid Cam Bolts

[turbomacncheese]

Well, I tossed my trashed timing belt because I didn't know any better. What's the cheapest way to hold these stupid gears locked? New timing belt?

[Aero STI]

http://www.company23.com/subarutools

Probably the best. Maybe not the cheapest.

[turbomacncheese]

Thanks. That's better than the 200 bucks I thought I'd have to spend after reading some threads on NASIOC and elsewhere.

[fastzrex]

Yes, those cam bolts are a real pain. I tried various Internet solutions (other than the one which used a 36" pipe wrench on the cam sprocket!) and was not successful. I purchased the Company23 tools through eBay and Amazon, a solid 10mm Allen socket (I broke two cheap ones; use a Allen socket which is a single unit, I found several on Amazon). I still used a 4 foot cheater bar on the Company23 tools to break them loose with a 'bang'; other than the creaking noise as they were turned it was no drama. It was scary, and I had someone help me to make sure the tools stay engaged! My impact tools (including a 3/4 drive with a 1000 ft/pound rating) did not budge them. Someone was successful with a 1" drive impact tool (so they say) with a 1500 ft/pound rating.

I was also going to try drilling the heads off the bolts (or slice them off with a die grinder). I tested with a drill and it would also be difficult as the head seemed to be very hard.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yes, those cam bolts are a real pain. I tried various Internet solutions (other than the one which used a 36" pipe wrench on the cam sprocket!) and was not successful. I purchased the Company23 tools through eBay and Amazon, a solid 10mm Allen socket (I broke two cheap ones; use a Allen socket which is a single unit, I found several on Amazon). I still used a 4 foot cheater bar on the Company23 tools to break them loose with a 'bang'; other than the creaking noise as they were turned it was no drama. It was scary, and I had someone help me to make sure the tools stay engaged! My impact tools (including a 3/4 drive with a 1000 ft/pound rating) did not budge them. Someone was successful with a 1" drive impact tool (so they say) with a 1500 ft/pound rating.

I was also going to try drilling the heads off the bolts (or slice them off with a die grinder). I tested with a drill and it would also be difficult as the head seemed to be very hard.

Turn In Concepts make a kit to prevent this problem in the future.

http://turninconcepts.com/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-non-avcs.html
Bob

[iblackwe]

I use a 28mm wrench on the cam itself and have had great luck breaking them loose. This definitely requires two people however.

[turbomacncheese]

I use a 28mm wrench on the cam itself and have had great luck breaking them loose. This definitely requires two people however.

On the cam itself? That thing is hollow, and round all the way down. Nothing to grab onto except a lobe. I read that some of the engines (2.0?) have a notch to grab with a wrench. Sadly, mine does not.


Yes, those cam bolts are a real pain. I tried various Internet solutions (other than the one which used a 36" pipe wrench on the cam sprocket!) and was not successful. I purchased the Company23 tools through eBay and Amazon, a solid 10mm Allen socket (I broke two cheap ones; use a Allen socket which is a single unit, I found several on Amazon). I still used a 4 foot cheater bar on the Company23 tools to break them loose with a 'bang'; other than the creaking noise as they were turned it was no drama. It was scary, and I had someone help me to make sure the tools stay engaged! My impact tools (including a 3/4 drive with a 1000 ft/pound rating) did not budge them. Someone was successful with a 1" drive impact tool (so they say) with a 1500 ft/pound rating.

I was also going to try drilling the heads off the bolts (or slice them off with a die grinder). I tested with a drill and it would also be difficult as the head seemed to be very hard.

My problem is that I still haven't managed to lock the cams in place.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

On the cam itself? That thing is hollow, and round all the way down. Nothing to grab onto except a lobe. I read that some of the engines (2.0?) have a notch to grab with a wrench. Sadly, mine does not.

My problem is that I still haven't managed to lock the cams in place.

I have changed timing belts 4 or five times using nothing but small tools. Two people help. One to point each cam,(one at a time) while the other person puts on the belt.

Do you have the service manual showing how to do this?
Bob

[turbomacncheese]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO after re-reading my first post, it's painfully UNCLEAR that I'm trying to remove the cam gears, not change the timing belt. Sorry folks. This is the engine out of an insurance wreck. Came with a shredded belt. I should have kept it (but didn't know better) and instead trashed it (threw it away). Now I need to disassemble the engine to rebuild it, and I'm stuck at the heads.

[Sgt.Gator]

When you eventually destroy the head of a cam bolt and are left thinking the only way now is to drill it.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjZ0XtLYtzc

[STiPWRD]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO after re-reading my first post, it's painfully UNCLEAR that I'm trying to remove the cam gears, not change the timing belt. Sorry folks. This is the engine out of an insurance wreck. Came with a shredded belt. I should have kept it (but didn't know better) and instead trashed it (threw it away). Now I need to disassemble the engine to rebuild it, and I'm stuck at the heads.
The website in post #2 shows you where to get the tool to remove the cam bolts. The tool is different depending on your year (that's why there's a few different options) but it allows you to hold the cam gear still while you remove the bolt with either an impact gun or a 10mm allen socket and breaker bar. Once you get the bolt off, the cam gear will slide right off.

This cam gear tool is a real life saver. I used one to remove the cam gears on my 02 wrx (equivalent to subaru p/n 499207400).

[turbomacncheese]

When you eventually destroy the head of a cam bolt and are left thinking the only way now is to drill it.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjZ0XtLYtzc

Ha, I saw this, and I have a welder. Might come in handy once I get a tool to help me strip the bolt, lol.


The website in post #2 shows you where to get the tool to remove the cam bolts. The tool is different depending on your year (that's why there's a few different options) but it allows you to hold the cam gear still while you remove the bolt with either an impact gun or a 10mm allen socket and breaker bar. Once you get the bolt off, the cam gear will slide right off.

This cam gear tool is a real life saver. I used one to remove the cam gears on my 02 wrx (equivalent to subaru p/n 499207400).

Yeah, that reply was spot on, but some of the others made me want to clarify my intent.

[AZPete]

Tony, I've been following your battle and remembered this pic of "Wayne Presley vs Cam Bolt" several years ago. Yeah, they are tight!
65505

[turbomacncheese]

ha, looks like he got lucky and had a cam with a notch in it. Say, you don't have an old timing belt anywhere, do ya?

[AZPete]

Nope. Possibly ask a Subaru dealer shop?

[Maximus]

That company 23 tool and a breaker bar saved me for sure. 1000ft/lbs gun didn't touch it, but steady pressure sure worked. I'd recommend having a helper if possible though, it was very tough solo.

[fastzrex]

Turn In Concepts make a kit to prevent this problem in the future.

http://turninconcepts.com/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-non-avcs.html
Bob

Too bad these are for non-AVCS engines. Maybe someone will come up with bolts for the single and dual AVCS cams.

[fastzrex]

ha, looks like he got lucky and had a cam with a notch in it. Say, you don't have an old timing belt anywhere, do ya?

I have a used cam belt I will send you for cost of postage. Please PM me with your address, I will find cheapest way (probably USPS flat rate), and send a message back.

In my circumstance, all the timing belt "solutions" for bolt removal from YouTube just did not work. There was just too much compliance between the belt/pulleys to really get good leverage. In my opinion, the Company23 tools (with a solid 10mm allen with 1/2" socket) are the best (and safest) method for really stubborn bolts. If these tools will not remove them, then cut the heads off with a die grinder; the rest of the bolt will come out easy when the cam sprocket is removed. Cutting or drilling the bolts will be a long, careful process.

[Sgt.Gator]

Too bad these are for non-AVCS engines. Maybe someone will come up with bolts for the single and dual AVCS cams.

They make them for both:
http://turninconcepts.com/engine/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-single-avcs.html

http://turninconcepts.com/engine/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-dual-avcs.html

The only problem with them is the Company 23 cam lock that makes the timing belt install easier only works with the OEM allen heads. I fiddled around a bit trying to figure out how to adapt the Company 23 tool to work with hex head bolts like the TIC FU bolts but never finished up how to do it.
http://www.company23.com/subarutools/506


www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWepM-PVe9o

[Mitch Wright]

I have the Company 23 tool, they work great.

[turbomacncheese]

Well, after breaking my strap wrench I stopped and considered some options. I jimmied up a makeshift strap wrench with an old accessory belt and a pair of vice grips, stuck a shovel handle over my breaker bar, and both of the intake bolts came loose. The exhaust were tough, and I thought I was going to break my shovel (fiberglass). Even keeping some pressure on it and smacking the bolt with a chisel/hammer didn't budge it. I figured two bolts cost a lot less than a tool that only does one thing (my least favorite kind) so I started drilling. I thought I'd have to break the head of the bolt off to remove the gear, but my drill bit was JUST small enough that it didn't booger up the allen shape. After getting about 3/4 of an inch in, I stuck my wrench back on it hoping to snap the bolt, and it broke loose. Threaded right out. Same with the other side. So now I'm down two bolts, but the gears are off (one of which was smashed in the accident anyway). The bolts are still intact, but have a hole where the wrench goes. Not sure why I could turn them all of a sudden. Interesting, that.

[AZPete]

Congrats on clearing another hurdle! It's all these little successes that make the build so much fun.

[turbomacncheese]

Well, I like wrenching. Always have. But I can understand where people get frustrated. Stupid cam bolt that doesn't want to come loose unless you have special tools, and now the head bolts are TWELVE POINT. Who the heck has 12-point sockets any more? Just got back from the store, coughing up $4 so I can go play some more.

I wasn't going to try drilling those out, lol.

[turbomacncheese]

65617656186561965620

Here are a couple pictures showing how I drilled the cam bolt. As for that 14mm socket, had to get the shovel back out. First head came off, no problem. Looked all kinds of nasty. Never seen clumps of carbon buildup like that.

Second head, well. I'd like to take a moment to say out loud how f'd up Subaru was for using 12 damned point sockets on anything with that much torque. Three headbolts, stripped bolt heads. FML. I'd like to blame the socket, but it wasn't even the last three. B, D, and F following the sequence in the manual. And what pisses me off the most? I got the first pop on ALL of them. Should have been easy going from there. Tried grinding them to clean metal and welding some nuts on, but i couldn't get any penetration and they popped right off. Tried my drill trick and they barely scratched the bolts. Looks like I'm headed for some bolt extractors. Next build will have a small block, because F this garbage.

[turbomacncheese]

And to top it off, just as I was trying to plot a course of revenge...I mean action... I took a huge drink from the bottom of my coffee cup and it was all coffee grounds. So F the Keurig cups, too. Way to end the night. I totally can't wait until I'm ready to put together shiny new parts.

[turbomacncheese]

Got my extractors from Harbor Freight. Wouldn't you know it, since the bolts are 12 point, the 14mm extractor was just a little too small. Go figure. And what size doesn't come with the set? 15mm, of course. Well, nothing I can't solve with a BFH. Put an extension in the extractor and went to town with my air chisel. Gave it a couple dozen good whacks with the BHF to make sure it didn't wiggle loose. Final count? Me: 3, headbolts: 0. Pretty sure that extractor is garbage now, though.

Came across these at HF. Might have worked better than a 12 point.
65658

[fastzrex]

Nice, straight drillin'! Success is always sweet. My head bolts also started out well, then became difficult, but all finally came out. In previous research, I was not real sure I liked the idea of bolts this long, in this diameter, heated in a block for many miles, with this amount of torque. After the experience of actually removing them, I purchased ARP (same thread size as the stock bolts) head studs to install in place of the bolts. Makes more sense to me to only apply tension for the torque sequence.

[turbomacncheese]

For sure, I'm DEFINITELY going with studs.