Ducky2009 MK4 Build #9035

[Ducky2009]

Ordered my kit in December during the end of year sale. Delivered 2/17/17

My order included:
MK IV complete kit
Powder coated chassis
Body cut outs
Gen 2 Coyote Engine & TKO-600
3-Link rear suspension - Straight Axle 3.55
FFR Vintage gauge set
Power steering kit
Power Brakes - Vacuum Boost
17" Halibrand wheels
Stainless exhaust
Kirkey High Back Seats
Chrome roll bars
Heater and Wipers
Wind wings
Sun visors
LED Headlights

Also plan to use:
CNC Reservoirs
Drop Trunk - Home made
Russ Thompson Turn signal
Glove Box AND Heater - Home Made

Now the fun begins!

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BUILD - TABLE OF CONTENTS
1) Drop Trunk -- Post #6
2) Oil Pan – Mod for Dip Stock – Post #7
3) Coyote Fitment – Post #12,
4) E-Brake Cables – Post #13
5) Heater & Glove Box – Post #17
6) Engine Mount Shims – Post 21
7) Engine Leveled – Post #23, 24
8) Wiring – Post #26 – 32
9) Competition Dash Layout – Post #35
10) Dash & Glove Box manufacture – Post #39
11) Trans Shim – Post #42-43
12) Power Steering Plumbing – Post #54
13) Lower Radiator Hose – Post #61
14) Breeze Radiator Shroud – Post #63
15) Dash Shape on the Ends – Post #71-73
16) Heat Shields on the Foot Boxes – Post #78
17) Heater Set-up – Post #80
18) Seat Installation – Post #87
19) Seat Heaters – Post #92
20) DIY Alignment Tool – Post #96, #104, #105
21) Go-Kart – Post #99
22) Windshield Install -- #107,
23) Stock Ford Cobra Brakes – Post #111
24) CMCV System – Post #112 - #116
25) Body to Chassis Fit – Post #112 - #135, #141 - #142
26) Power Brake Set-up – Post #156, #180, #184, #194
27) Trunk Lid Support -- #162, #164, #165, #168
28) Windshield Top Mount Mirror Bracket – Post #168
29) Door Panels – Post #163, #174
30) TKO 600 Trans Oil Leak Repair– Post #178, #189, #191, #193, #240
31) RT – Turn Signals – Post #181
32) DS Footbox Mod – Post #188
33) Paint – Post #197 - #203, #211, #213, #217
34) Trunk Carpet – Post #204
35) Body Fit – Insulation between Engine Bay and Cockpit – Post #206-210
36) Speed Hut Gauges, Chrome pealing – Post #212
37) Front Body Mount Brackets bent Incorrectly – Post #214 - #216
38) Final Assy – Post #223 - #226
39) Thinking about adding a Grille – Post #227, #241, #269
40) Carpet around Door Latches – Post #231 - #234, #237 - #238, #242
41) 0-60 MPH – Post #239
42) Correct Oil Filter for a Coyote – Post #248 - #251
43) Clutch Cable – Post #253 - #255
44) Oil Cooler Screen – Post #256 - #260
45) My New Hot Rod – Post #261
46) Four Corner Balance – Post #264,
47) Driveshaft Safety Loop – Post #265
48) Fog Lights – Post #268
49) Cooling Fan Controller – Post #271
50) LED Headlights – Post #272 - #275
51) Apple Air Tag - Track you car if stolen - #276
52) Exhaust Baffles - #279

[Ducky2009]

Inventory complete. Missing 8 things not on the POL list. Not sure if that's normal! Can't make much progress at this point. Missing all four Spring Collars/Seats, Bolts for Lower Control Arms and Steering Rack, amount other items. Drilling aluminum then stopped for now.

Question: Has anyone used Anodize instead of Power Coating?

[Railroad]

I can vouch for the Power Steering Rack being on back order, waiting since Nov 2016.
Still, a fun hobby and FFR is good to deal with.

[JRL16]

Congrats on your new arrival Ducky. You're in for a lot of fun. Enjoy it. I got my Mk4 last April and have had a very fulfilling time building it. Your build sounds a lot like mine. It's never any cheaper to add things to the car than when you first build it. Do you still have the body on? If so, could I bother you for a pic of the distance from the edge of the rolled fiberglass to the dash hoop ( looking up ) and the same for the edge of the fiberglass to the rear bulkhead aluminum? I'm trying to get an idea of how much clearance there is at those two points for the dash face to clear in the front and carpet clearance in the rear. I took hundreds of pics of mine but in my excitement forgot those two crucial shots. My dash has fasteners behind it that move it out a little and I ran koolmat under the carpet in rear. Thanks for any help you can give here. Mine is in gocart right now so if you have any questions feel free.

[Ducky2009]

Sorry, the body is already off.

[Ducky2009]

Received most of my back order parts. Steering rack damaged (smashed lines). Now moving forward again. Made an 1/8" thick Firewall to stiffen it up a little. Plan to give it a polished finish and clear coat it. Made my own Drop Trunk.
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[Ducky2009]

New steering rack to be delivered on Thursday. Presently working on engine assy... Power steering, Alt, and assemble clutch, scatter shield and trans, etc... Needed to modify the Moroso oil pan to allow the dip stick to insert 100%.

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[Ducky2009]

Waiting on the steering rack (first one had damaged lines), so I assembled the engine, clutch, trans. Steering rack due tomorrow. Ready to install steering, wheels and trial fit the engine. Need to check clearances and define heater/wiper locations, etc...

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If you're not running a steel bell housing and backup plate, make sure you install the cover plug (not in the pic, but needed to fill the shown hole), located on the DS.

[Ducky2009]

QUESTION: How many of you used the Breeze Offset Rack Mounting kit (#70634) to lower (by .35") the steering rack on your MK4? I understand the frame mount geometry was improved on the MK4 and the need for this mod "May" not be needed. Thoughts?

[wareaglescott]

QUESTION: How many of you used the Breeze Offset Rack Mounting kit (#70634) to lower (by .35") the steering rack on your MK4? I understand the frame mount geometry was improved on the MK4 and the need for this mod "May" not be needed. Thoughts?

I used it. Like every other breeze part it is great quality with great directions and installs easily. I did offset the rack a little. Can't say whether or not I consider it a must use but I am happy I did.

[edwardb]

X2. I've used on each of my builds as well. On Mk3's, the rack mounting wasn't centered, so the Breeze mounts help to get the rack to the center. You're right. That's fixed on the Mk4. But the Breeze mounts lower the rack slightly and also move it away from the frame uprights where the rack boots can drag. I'm not sure how much it matters, but also makes the rack a solid mount vs. the rubber bushings. All around I think a worthwhile upgrade.

[Ducky2009]

The engine is in for a trial fit. Need to take it out to coat the panels. I'm adding a heater and want a glovebox. More on that later. The drivers side has no (touching the footbox at the rear of the engine) clearance, passenger side has one inch. Anyone else have this problem? Has anyone tried to shift the engine from side to side? FYI... Trans mount is bolted in.

[Ducky2009]

I didn't like the idea of cutting the e-brake cables and using Home Depot aluminum cable swages. I also didn't like the FF design to run bare cables under the frame rail. I decided to run the cable sheath under the frame rail. I fabed a bracket the correct length to permit not cutting the cables.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul and wareaglescott.

[wareaglescott]

The engine is in for a trial fit. Need to take it out to coat the panels. I'm adding a heater and want a glovebox. More on that later. The drivers side has no (touching the footbox at the rear of the engine) clearance, passenger side has one inch. Anyone else have this problem? Has anyone tried to shift the engine from side to side? FYI... Trans mount is bolted in.

Your pictures look like the exact same clearance I had on the coyote. I did not shift it any side to side. Seems to work just fine like that. In my case the transmission already sits towards the passenger side of the tunnel. IF you moved the engine over that would cause the transmission to sit even more off center.
FYI I ended up copying Edward B and used a 3/4" transmission spacer. We are both running IRS though so that may not apply to you.

I am wondering if the moderators could move this thread over to the Roadster build threads section? I almost miss it over here in the welcome and introductions section.

[Ducky2009]

Wareaglescott,
Thanks for the reply. I'll look up the spacer and ask the moderator to move me. Didn't realize what I did... posting is the welcome section.
Ducky

[Ducky2009]

Modified the firewall to space the heater out, trying to allow for a glove box too. It will be shallow (approx 3 3/4") but I'll have a glove box.

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[Dave Howard]

Modified the firewall to space the heater out, trying to allow for a glove box too. It will be shallow (approx 3 3/4") but I'll have a glove box.

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It will get very tight behind the dash with the heater and associated ducting, the glove box and wiring. I mounted the fuse box from Ford Racing (included in the controls pack) under the dash just above the trans tunnel. It is hidden with a console kit. The wiring from the fuse box to the Coyote and ECM is out of sight behind the dash and runs under the heater. It goes through the hole on the far right provided by FFR.
I like your mod for bringing the heater forward. Good job.

[Ducky2009]

Dave, Thanks for the feedback. I'm ready to start wiring and have been reviewing several posts, trying to determine some of the wire routing. I think I'm going to mount the Coyote fuse box on the firewall, in the engine compartment. Also, after debating aluminum coating choices (powder coating, paint, bare alum, etc), I decided to scuff the surface and spray with clearcoat. Not planning to enter in a car show.... just drive and enjoy. Note: The DS footbox has a few extra holes (cover plate not shown). I setup the pedal box to accept a hydroboost, just in case I don't like the braking with the Wilwood manual brakes (Mustang Cobra calipers front and rear).

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[Doug @ Forma]

The engine is in for a trial fit. Need to take it out to coat the panels. I'm adding a heater and want a glovebox. More on that later. The drivers side has no (touching the footbox at the rear of the engine) clearance, passenger side has one inch. Anyone else have this problem? Has anyone tried to shift the engine from side to side? FYI... Trans mount is bolted in.

Just wanted to confirm what wareaglescott said, our Coyote fit was similar. I think we were able to adjust the engine in the mounts to get a tiny bit of clearance.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks for your input Doug. Instead of using engine mount shims "IN" the mount, I'm using a shim under the mount, 1/2" shims on both sides. Starting the wiring. Had to make a fuse box mounting plate. The one supplied was not large enough to fit the fuse box.

2/7/18 Edit: The engine was slightly unlevel. I ended us slotting the frame mount on the DS, slotting the inner/bottom side about 1/8" to shift the engine to level. NOTE: Headers were installed. Measures from the bottom bolt hole to the floor to check for level.

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[edwardb]

Thanks for your input Doug. Instead of using engine mount shims "IN" the mount, I'm using a shim under the mount, 1/2" shim on DS and 1/4" on PS. This centers the engine fairly well and still leaves enough adjustment in the mounts to level out the engine. Starting the wiring. Had to make a fuse box mounting plate. The one supplied was not large enough to fit the fuse box.

Nice work on the plate. But you should have received one with the kit. There are two. One for a donor fuse box and one for the Ron Francis fuse box. Regarding engine placement, hold that thought. Having the engine level is a goal I guess. But clearance inside the footboxes plus header/side pipe alignment are also in the mix. Which you won't find out about for awhile. Sometimes it's necessary to tweak to get the best for all three. In the end, if the engine isn't perfectly level, that's OK.

[Doug @ Forma]

... Regarding engine placement, hold that thought. Having the engine level is a goal I guess. But clearance inside the footboxes plus header/side pipe alignment are also in the mix. Which you won't find out about for awhile. Sometimes it's necessary to tweak to get the best for all three. In the end, if the engine isn't perfectly level, that's OK.

Yes, you'll need your engine level for proper header / side pipe fit.

Take a look at this shot from us first fitting our side pipes. FF originally shipped us two right pipes, so we were focused no fitting it. Then we looked through the nose ...

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Note that the right (passenger side) goes through the opening but the left is almost 2" too high? Leveling it balanced it out:

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We're closer than we want to be to the driver's side foot box, but it was needed to get the side pipes right.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Doug. I was measuring from the floor up to the head flanges to balance it out. I did achieve a little better fit than when I started. I also discovered that the DS header was touching the footbox when I started. It's about 1/4" away now. I think I'm going to heat the header, use a 1.00" bar and deform it a little at the FB corner.

Thanks Paul. The fuse box mounting plate was in the wiring harness box. I pulled the fuse box wiring harness out and the plate was in the bottom of the box, covered by the rest of the wiring. Good think I only had about 30 minutes in making one (have access to a fab shop with a brake, sheer, welders, etc...). I started the wiring. Not as daunting as I imagined, thanks to reading up on posts and a few people's email replies.

[Doug @ Forma]

This will make you feel better. We got the engine back in our Mark IV last week. The final position won't be dialed in until the body is remounted, but here's where we are to the driver's side footbox.

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It's a bit snug. :cool: The passenger side is better, but still pretty tight (sorry for the slightly blurry picture).

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[Ducky2009]

Thanks for sharing Doug. I'm getting ready to reinstall the engine early next week. Presently working on wiring. After adding the master cutoff switch I discovered that I need extra battery cable ends and a crimping tool (swedged and soldered connectors) . Wasn't thinking ahead on that one. I'm also going to use the (home made) competition style dash.

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[Ducky2009]

OK, I'm down to the last wire. 16 pin Pigtail (coyote). Blunt Lead #8 - Hot all the Time (red). Set-up B, Directions.... Connect lead to input node of the ignition cylinder. Set-up B diagram (Coyote - page 20) makes it look like Lead #8 is the only wire connected to the ignition input. The Ron Francis harness instructions shows two attached wires (ultimately tying battery, alternator, and RF hot lead to fuse box) together. Question, is lead #8 feeding 12V to the switch or picking up 12 volts to feed something else? If it's picking up 12 volts, is it needed? The Ford Coyote fuse box is already being fed 12 volts.

One more question. Electric fuel pump circuit. Coyote install instructions (electronic version, starting on page 73). Directions.... Remove fuel pump fuse, cut the tan wire connector on the harness end off (connector doesn't exist) and solder to green wire (blunt lead #1). Tan wire end leading to the fuel pump, right? Question, with the 12 volt positive feed cut and fuse removed, how is the inertia switch going to work?

[edwardb]

OK, I'm down to the last wire. 16 pin Pigtail (coyote). Blunt Lead #8 - Hot all the Time (red). Set-up B, Directions.... Connect lead to input node of the ignition cylinder. Set-up B diagram (Coyote - page 20) makes it look like Lead #8 is the only wire connected to the ignition input. The Ron Francis harness instructions shows two attached wires (ultimately tying battery, alternator, and RF hot lead to fuse box) together. Question, is lead #8 feeding 12V to the switch or picking up 12 volts to feed something else? If it's picking up 12 volts, is it needed? The Ford Coyote fuse box is already being fed 12 volts.

One more question. Electric fuel pump circuit. Coyote install instructions (electronic version, starting on page 73). Directions.... Remove fuel pump fuse, cut the tan wire connector on the harness end off (connector doesn't exist) and solder to green wire (blunt lead #1). Tan wire end leading to the fuel pump, right? Question, with the 12 volt positive feed cut and fuse removed, how is the inertia switch going to work?

The HAAT B red wire from the Coyote pigtail provides an always on 12V power source. You're right. It's an output not an input. It gets it's power from the PDB via the battery connection. Don't hook it to the ignition switch like SETUP B shows. I chose to use it for the GPS speedo memory wire plus power the clock. The wire isn't needed to make the engine start and run, so can be tied back and not used if you want. While I'm at it, the yellow blunt lead #16, shown in the same SETUP B drawing, is also not needed. In fact I've heard (although no personal experience) it can cause a problem. Don't hook it up as shown. Cover it and tie it out of the way.

The inertia switch relay is powered by the +12V from the Coyote PDB, same as the fuel pump itself. The most recent FF Coyote installation instructions show cutting the tan wire at a location that bypasses the inertia fuel pump relay in the RF panel. I'm not sure why. Look at an older version of the instructions and they show the proper location. Or just trace the wires and you'll see the right place to tap it in. The fuse in the RF panel is removed, but the relay (and inertia switch) will still work.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul. Another question or two. I cut the plug off the coyote harness, Item B, C500 (PCM Ground/Battery + Main), added an connector and installed to the battery side of the main cutoff switch. Did I just add un-fused power supply to the PCM? The coyote instructions (pages 8 & 9) calls the mating plug (item X on the long battery cable - C500) a Fuse and Relay Power and Ground, but no fuse exists "IN" the connector. I'm assuming it goes through a fuse down stream.

Now I'm wondering if I should connect to the starter wire side of the main cutoff switch and add a wire from the battery side to the starter side, with a 10 amp fuse. This would give the entire car system constant volts (to always hot items) to power PCM memory, radio pre-select stations and my USB outlets (that I want hot when the ignition is off). I would also blow the fuse if someone tried to start the car with the main switch off.

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul. Another question or two. I cut the plug off the coyote harness, Item B, C500 (PCM Ground/Battery + Main), added an connector and installed to the battery side of the main cutoff switch. Did I just add un-fused power supply to the PCM? The coyote instructions (pages 8 & 9) calls the mating plug (item X on the long battery cable - C500) a Fuse and Relay Power and Ground, but no fuse exists "IN" the connector. I'm assuming it goes through a fuse down stream.

Now I'm wondering if I should connect to the starter wire side of the main cutoff switch and add a wire from the battery side to the starter side, with a 10 amp fuse. This would give the entire car system constant volts (to always hot items) to power PCM memory, radio pre-select stations and my USB outlets (that I want hot when the ignition is off). I would also blow the fuse if someone tried to start the car with the main switch off.

I didn't wire mine that way, and would recommend some changes. The Controls Pack comes with a Buss 250A in-line fuse. Your power to the PDB and the C500 connection should be through that fuse. I'm not completely sure of the reason to have that large a fuse on the system, but I followed their instructions to use it. I did the main power wiring as follows: From the battery to one side of the master disconnect with a #2 battery cable. From that same post I took a #4 battery cable to one side of the 250A fuse. On the other side of the fuse I connected the C500 red wire plus the front terminal of the PDB. On the switched side of the master disconnect, I have the #4 cable going back to the starter plus the main power connection for the Ron Francis fuse panel.

Wired this way, the Coyote PDB is always on meaning the PCM is always powered as instructed and the HAAT wires are always on. You can use those for the circuits you want always powered. But the starter and RF harness are switched through the master disconnect. With that off, the car won't start or run, fuel pump won't run, etc. Putting a fuse across the disconnect is a method some use to power accessories but blow if starting is attempted. But with the Coyote harness and PDB, I don't think that's necessary. It can be done a little more elegantly.

My build thread has a longer explanation and pictures here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=231732&viewfull=1#post231732.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks again Paul. I changed the master switch connections as you suggested. Inertia switch -- I ended up cutting the tan wire on the RF fuse box at the fuse end (and removing the fuse) and splicing to the green coyote fuel pump relay out wire (Blunt Lead #1). Fuel Pump has 12v and inertia switch kills power when activated.

According to the Coyote manual, 2015 and newer, you only need to attach the orange fan wire to the fan. The water temp sending unit ties directly to the RF harness/dash gauge. How does the coyote system know when the fan needs powered up?

This weeks update. STILL waiting large wire harness clamps (battery cables from the master switch down to the starter). Due in tomorrow, then the engine can go back in.

[edwardb]

According to the Coyote manual, 2015 and newer, you only need to attach the orange fan wire to the fan. The water temp sending unit ties directly to the RF harness/dash gauge. How does the coyote system know when the fan needs powered up?

Not to worry. The PCM decides when the fan needs to run based on existing engine sensors. My understanding is the setup doesn't measure the coolant temperature directly, but instead reads cylinder head temperature (CHT) and from that infers coolant temp. Based on the program in the PCM then decides when the fan needs to be run. But that's all internal to the Coyote system. Nothing for you to do. For the DD PCM, if the engine temp is unable to be controlled, the PCM will put the engine in limp home mode. Don't know if the crate motor program does the same thing. I suspect it does, but hope not to find out.

FWIW, for a more traditional setup (e.g. small block, big block, etc.) the water temp sending and RF harness/dash gauge don't directly affect the fan operation either. It's also just watching. Those engines also have a separate sensor for the fan circuit, although typically measure the coolant temp directly.

[Ducky2009]

Edwardb - Thanks again. OK, time to start on the dash layout. Cut my new dash yesterday, got to love plasma cutters. It took approx 30 minuted to layout, cut, and deburr, less gauge holes.

[Ducky2009]

Paul, need your help....again. I'm looking for your dash layout dimensions. I found it once upon a time but can't seem to find it now.

[edwardb]

Paul, need your help....again. I'm looking for your dash layout dimensions. I found it once upon a time but can't seem to find it now.

I think this is what you're asking about: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/4988081-post52.html. Hope it helps.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul, that's exactly what I was looking for. I like the looks of that dash over the stock/supplies one. Also wanting to use the Russ Thompson turn signals momentary switch to blink the high beam lights. Need to research relay switches to work out the details. Last time I wired a car was in the 70's. 1956 Willy's Overlander with a 454. Things were a lot simpler back then, cars didn't have computers.

[edwardb]

Next step, looking for a rocker switch (approx the size of the seat heaters) for the low/high beam light switch. Also wanting to use the Russ Thompson turn signals momentary switch to blink the high beam lights. Need to research relay switches to work out the details.

Since you have the RT turn signal setup with the momentary switch, most just use that for both. Headlights off = push button for high beam flash to pass. Headlights on = push button to toggle back and forth between high and low beam. No need to have a separate switch for each. In fact, probably adds complication. Your RT turn signal should have come with several schematics that show turn signals and headlight switching. This is one that I've seen several use, and it's relatively straightforward. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/160511-post3.html. It's built around the usual VW latching relay. Wish there were better options for all electronic switching. I've used modules from American Autowire that work great (no relays!) but they're no longer available. I've seen where some guys have fabbed their own circuitry, but not for the uninitiated. Lots of wiring in any case though. Good luck.

[Ducky2009]

Since you have the RT turn signal setup with the momentary switch...come with several schematics that show turn signals and headlight switching.
Thanks for the heads-up. I just sent my steering hub to RT (due back late next week) so I haven't seen the schematics yet.

Weekly update. Reinstalling the engine today. Laid out the dash last night. Drilling gauge holes next week. Looking for dash leather. Found some large enough, but only 2 OZ (1/32") thick. Doesn't seem thick enough.

[Ducky2009]

Making Progress. Dash holes are all in except the steering column. Waiting for the return of the RT turn signals to know the exact size. Glove box welded up and ready to install. GB and dash are 3/32" thk. GB is only 3" deep at the top, but 4" deep at the bottom. Hard to tell but there is a "little" clearance between the GB and heater. Using a 4-way bypass valve to shut off the hot water to the heater when not in use and still have the recirculating coolant. Plan to use the supplies heater control pull switch. Guess I need one more hole in the dash. Need to decide where. I also plan to use electric seat heaters (but don't like to have cold feet).

[WIS89]

Everything looks great! I really like how the glove box turned out. Moving the heater box out from the firewall, and keeping the glove box deeper at the bottom really makes quite a difference.

Before you drop the engine back in, you need to grab yourself some grease and a couple of shoe horns! WOW is it close in there! You Coyote guys have a chore.

I have enjoyed following along, and admire the speed of your build. Mine is a bit more deliberate!

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Steve

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Steve. I removed the heater box extension and heater when installing the engine. Speed of build..... I'm retired so I have lots of free time and I've done builds before (but not from kits), thought it's been awhile.

[Ducky2009]

I've seen several posts about a trans shim being added. The shim "looked" fairly thick. I added 1/4" to mine so that the driveshaft would clear the frame tube. Not sure why the difference in thickness. I did place the trans mount above the frame mount. Guess that's the engineer coming out in me. Why have the bolts carry the load when the mount can sit on top of the frame and carry the load. I'm I missing something... Why the shim should be thicker? ALSO: Is your driveshaft running on an angle like mine?

2/7/18 Edit: Ended up using a 3/4" shim, same as Wareaglescott (next post). Turns out the engine oil pan was below the frame rails. 3/4" shim was enough to get it above the rails. See my post #81.

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[wareaglescott]

I used a 3/4" shim with coyote/tko-600/irs. My shim was more to make the driveshaft sit level than it was for clearance of the frame tube. What type engine mounts did you use? That may account for some differences versus what I did. I used the newer FFR coyote mounts with the integrated spacers sandwiched in there. They came out late last summer. I would assume that is what came with your kit.

Here is a picture of my shims installed. Did we mount them in the same location? Mine is between the transmission and the mount. Is yours between the mount and the frame?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57898&d=1472322009

I am having a hard time seeing the angle you are asking about. Visually it is tough with the angled cross braces and it looks like the picture is at a little bit of an angle. I will say the transmission definitely sits towards the passenger side of the tunnel on mine if that is what you are asking. The transmission biased towards the passenger side of the tunnel is normal and expected.

[Ducky2009]

I used a 3/4" shim with coyote/tko-600/irs. My shim was more to make the driveshaft sit level than it was for clearance of the frame tube. What type engine mounts did you use? That may account for some differences versus what I did. I used the newer FFR coyote mounts with the integrated spacers sandwiched in there. They came out late last summer. I would assume that is what came with your kit.


Here are some better pics and definition. The A-Frame mount is sitting on top of the frame tab, not under.

I'm using a solid rear axle. The upper arm rear end mount is adjusted to "try" to align the pinion angle to the drive shaft. It's close but not completely aligned. Under load (accelerating), the rear end will rotate, making this angle closer to a straight line. I've rotated the pinion up as far as I could (still not completely aligned). I have approx 1/4" before the upper mount touches the Panhard bar.
The rear end is centered. The drive shaft is presently running low at rear end, higher at the trans end by approx 1/2" It also runs sideways, centered at rear end and more to the passenger side at the trans end. Looks like everyone has this issue. Not sure if it's a manufacturing flaw or by design. If by design, I'd like to understand why.

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[Ducky2009]

I found leather for the dash. After reading a few posts and searching the web for leather, I found out the Tandy leather store is about 30 minutes from my house. Ended up buying 3 oz leather, 1/2 hide for $99 (military discount applied). If you want to look it up, it's called Studio Sides on their site. They had thinner and thicker. The thinner was way to thin. The thicker was defined as to make motorcycle chaps... way too heavy. The tape measures cross at 6 feet and 20".

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[GoDadGo]

Here are some better pics and definition. I did not shim between the trans mount and trans. I shimmed under the A-Frame mount. NOTE: The A-Frame mount is sitting on top of the frame tab, not under. I added a 1/4" shim on top of the frame tab, under the A-Frame mount, see pic. Without the shim, the drive shaft was touching the 4" frame rail when rotated.
I'm using a solid rear axle. The upper arm rear end mount is adjusted to "try" to align the pinion angle to the drive shaft. It's close but not completely aligned. Under load (accelerating), the rear end will rotate, making this angle closer to a straight line. I've rotated the pinion up as far as I could (still not completely aligned). I have approx 1/4" before the upper mount touches the Panhard bar.
The rear end is aligned (centered) with the front end. The drive shaft is presently running low at rear end, higher at the trans end by approx 1/2" It also runs sideways, centered at rear end and more to the passenger side at the trans end. Looks like everyone has this issue. Not sure if it's a manufacturing flaw or by design. If by design, I'd like to understand why.

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Ducky2009,

If you have the upper link as far back as you can get it and still have issues with pinion angle and/or the possibility of the upper link contacting the panhard bar brace, then you can get away with shortening your lower control arms which will pull the pinion up and allow you to draw in the upper link so that it clears the brace. The stock lowers are 17 5/8" so I had a shorter pair made that are 17" to make things line up and clear. In addition, please understand that my issue was caused by the fact that I installed my driveline at ZERO degrees so I had to tilt the pinion angle up a good bit to get it in phase with the engine and transmission.

Spohn Performance made a new set for me and they also offer an adjustable set for Factory Five Cars as well.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/Factory-Five-Racing-MK3-MK4-Roadster/Adjustable-Rear-Lower-Control-Arms-with-Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints.html

My actual wheelbase is now 89.5" and I am able to clear my rear tires at full offset or tilt with no problems with clearance; however, I am running 285-40/17's on the rear and not the normal 315-35/17's.

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

Also, please know that the pinion is not in allignment with the drive line when looking at it from above. It is offset so that it cycles the needle bearings of the U-Joints; however, you do need to make sure that you are in phase.

https://youtu.be/gmV4qwLfOMY

Hope this information helps and remember that your U-Joints must be in phase in order to avoid vibrations and premature drive line failures.

Steve

[Jeff Kleiner]

... If by design, I'd like to understand why.



Two fold. If a driveline doesn't have a couple degrees of angle the u-joint's needle bearings will not rotate and will fail. In the case of our cars I've heard a few different reasons as to why the engine is slightly offset to the passenger side; the ones that seem to most often be repeated are that it is to compensate for the driver's weight &/or provide a bit more footbox room on the driver's side.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Two fold. If a driveline doesn't have a couple degrees of angle the u-joint's needle bearings will not rotate and will fail. In the case of our cars I've heard a few different reasons as to why the engine is slightly offset to the passenger side; the ones that seem to most often be repeated are that it is to compensate for the driver's weight &/or provide a bit more footbox room on the driver's side.

Jeff

Agreed. The offset driveline is completely by design. In addition to the reasons cited by Jeff (not too handy for our RH drive friends...) I've also read this is due to the differential/axle design. Ideally, the two axles should be nearly the same length. With the ring gear in the center, the pinion and driveshaft flange must be offset.

[GoDadGo]

Jeff Kleiner & EdwardB are my go to guys for many of my 1st time builder questions.

Any advice these fellows give you in my opinion is always Expert Advice!

[Ducky2009]

Steve, Thanks for sharing the links. I've watched the phasing video before, but that was the last think on my mind as I was looking at this issue. After reviewing the situation I decided to rotate the axle upper link (1/4
") on the axle. This created a gap between the third member and the support arm on the upper link. I added a 1" spacer to fill the gap. Still need to align the pinion.

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[GoDadGo]

Steve, Thanks for sharing the links. I've watched the phasing video before, but that was the last think on my mind as I was looking at this issue. After reviewing the situation I decided to rotated the axle upper link (1/4
") on the axle. This created a gap between the third member and the support arm on the upper link. I added a 1" spacer to fill the gap. Still need to align the pinion.

6671266713

Glad I Could Help & It Looks Like You Are On Your Way To A Perfect Pinion Alignment!

Also, on my rear end the upper link is welded in place (MOSER TSD-500) so I was not able to rotate it the upper bracket.
It really had me frustrated because I was pitched down 3-Degrees with the upper link all the way out causing it to hit the Panhard Bar Brace.
Since my drive line is set at ZERO Degrees (Horizontal With The Frame) I had to figure out Plan-B, which was to shorten the lowers.

Keep Plugging Away & You'll Get There!

[Ducky2009]

Steve, I plan to weld a bracket to the rear end and bolt to the upper link. Still looking for the best placement.

I've thought about the trans shim you used (Paul's design) and realized mine works, BUT, if someone else works on this and doesn't notice where it goes, it might get left out and create a problem. Bolting it under the mount eliminates this possibility.

[Ducky2009]

Steve, Paul, ALL - How much pre-load do you have on your pinion? How many degrees do you think the pinion will rotate up during load ("Normal" driving)? I set the pinion 2 degrees less than parallel plane to the drive line (trans). Not sure what is suggested.
Thanks

[Ducky2009]

Power steering lines didn't line up as delivered. Called FF and was told to install lines then bend them as needed. FF said lines are for many various cars and I needed to "make them fit my application". Lines were pointing toward the radiator (thus - too short to reach the PS pump) instead of towards the PS/power steering pump, 90 degrees off. Lines were fairly easy to bend. I was concerned about possibly kinking at the existing bends but had no problems. ALSO, the line fittings had play in them after installation. It appears (I hope) that there is an O-Ring seal in the joint. After tightening, you can wiggle the lines in and out, and rotate a little. I'll know more when I fill the reservoir and fire up the engine (pump pressure).

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[wareaglescott]

Had the same problem. Worked with Mark at Breeze and he developed a line kit that includes braided lines and fittings to replace the two lines that come with the FFR coyote kit but still uses the rest of the components. It's in my build thread if you are interested. I was much happier with the end result.

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1142

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ducky,
I set the pinion 2 degrees down in relation to the transmission output.

RE: Power steering lines; Wareaglescott asked me the same question when he was doing his. Here is my reply:

" Functionally I would expect that it will be fine. Aesthetically not so much. I think you feel the same way. You could give a try at bending the hard lines---it will take a good bender to do it without kinking. Chances are it won't work out so good... I've built a few power steering cars (my own included) and always use fittings and braided teflon hose available from Breeze. You'll be able to make the lengths you need and keep the routing neat and tidy Here's a shot of one that I did on a customer build with a Windsor and Fox pump.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Aaron5171/100_3829.jpg

The "O" ring to AN fittings will work for your rack:

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=646

I looked up some info on the late Ford pump and found that the pressure side is M16X1.5. If memory serves I am 98% sure that the size and threads of the 5/8"-18 fitting mentioned (Breeze #21514) are so close to identical that it can be used for the pump. I'd give Mark at Breeze a call to verify. If you opt to go this route the hose and fittings that he offers are good quality, easy to assemble and priced extremely well:

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=814

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1123

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1125

Hope that helps."

Good luck and keep us posted on how everything works out!

Jeff

[Dave Howard]

Steve, Paul, ALL - How much pre-load do you have on your pinion? How many degrees do you think the pinion will rotate up during load ("Normal" driving)? I set the pinion 2 degrees less than parallel plane to the drive line (trans). Not sure what is suggested.
Thanks

Like any forum, you need to be careful with what people are telling you. There are some posts and build threads out there that go into elaborate detail including talks about engine alignment, engine level, and pinion angle. The best thing is to follow the recommendations from FFR. As outlined in the build manual, and re-iterated by Jeff, set the pinion angle at 2 degrees down.

[GoDadGo]

I am between 1 & 2 degrees as well on the pinion angle.

[Ducky2009]

Dave, Steve, I read the manual... It says 2 degrees UP (page 80). ??? It doesn't define a relationship to the trans angle. I'm 2 degrees down from the trans centerline, so under load it will rise, thus aligning to approx 0 degrees. Is that how you understand it?

[GoDadGo]

Dave, Steve, I read the manual... It says 2 degrees UP (page 80). ??? It doesn't define a relationship to the trans angle. I'm 2 degrees down from the trans centerline, so under load it will rise, thus aligning to approx 0 degrees. Is that how you understand it?

That is how I've got mine set where it should ZERO out the angle under acceleration.

[Ducky2009]

Weekly Update: Installed the radiator today. Followed Edwardb's post and purchased the same hoses, etc... Turns out the radiator is different. The lower hose connection is now parallel to the floor (when installed). Old design was perpendicular to the radiator body, thus "was" pointing downward on the lower outlet. I still used the 90 degree SS 1.5" tube and hoses, just installed differently. Not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye but functional. Not many choices with the Rad outlet so close to the frame and as high as it is. Used the center section of the lower hose (as marked). Also used the stock Mustang lower hose (that came with the controls pack), to attach to the engine. Would liked to have used more of the hose and less of the 1.5" SS pipe but the hose twisted the wrong way to use more. Note: The lower hose was left too long (the hose has 2" extra where clamped) on purpose, until I determine the position of the lower end of the Rad. Also looks like I need to straighten out the cut on the engine end. :)

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[edwardb]

Weekly Update: Installed the radiator today. Followed Edwardb's post and purchased the same hoses, etc... Turns out the radiator is different.

Sorry about that. My build used an Afco Racing radiator. The type Factory Five used for a number of years. Not too long after I bought my kit, they went to a different brand radiator with several design changes. I haven't seen the new one in person. Only pictures. But clearly the angles of the hose connections are different. Sounds you got it worked out.

[Ducky2009]

No problem Edwardb. FFR changes suppliers or design, can't help that.

Good news is the Breeze shroud did fit. I called Breeze before ordering because the web site said it fits up to 2015. We discussed and they are reviewing the measurements to evaluate the situation and update their page. Didn't take a pic before installing. NOTE: The flange is close but room to drill and install nylon-lock nuts.

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[Ducky2009]

Question: Has anyone found the mating plug for the FFR radiator fan wiring? I'd like to have a plug-in connection instead of a crimped-on female connector that could come loose. Not likely but...

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[GoDadGo]

Question: Has anyone found the mating plug for the FFR radiator fan wiring? I'd like to have a plug-in connection instead of a crimped-on female connector that could come loose. Not likely but...

66947

If you find one, then please let me know because I'd like one too.

[wareaglescott]

Question: Has anyone found the mating plug for the FFR radiator fan wiring? I'd like to have a plug-in connection instead of a crimped-on female connector that could come loose. Not likely but...

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I just cut the plug off and wired in a weatherpack connector.

[GoDadGo]

Good Suggestion War Eagle!

[edwardb]

I just cut the plug off and wired in a weatherpack connector.


Good Suggestion War Eagle!

X2. Weatherpack is perfect there. I think that's an old school Packard type connector. But I wouldn't mess with it.

[wareaglescott]

Good Suggestion War Eagle!

Thanks Steve and of course I got the idea from Paul! ^^^^

[GoDadGo]

Thanks Steve and of course I got the idea from Paul! ^^^^

Don't you mean:

Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Ducky2009]

Thanks all for the connector advise. I ordered the Weatherpack plug. I'm on vacation but wanted to catch up while I have a little down time.
Next question: I've been trying to review the dash shape on the ends. I see the shape in several posts but no real definition of how to achieve it. The best view is on FFR glove box dash. It shows a large (maybe 3-4" radius) then a flat to the end. Any suggestions please!
I'm also trying to order the dash padding. I hate to pay $15 for something and $20 shipping. Any suggestions on local stores that carry it. 1/8" Volara foam padding.

[Ducky2009]

Weekly update. I've been on vacation and not much progress in the last week. Won't be much progress for a few days. Ended up with food poising on Sunday thanks to a nice little Mexican restaurant in WI. I did order the dash padding. Had planned on making the glove box door this week and installing the hardware. Not sure how much is going to happen this week.

I did receive my RT turn signals and in-process of acquiring relays and harnesses. Found all by one part. Where can I find a VW Relay 111-941-583 "harness/plug". The relay itself is ordered, along with everything else.

Thanks to Jdav, I'll be able to take a close look at his glove box dash and check out the outer ends. Not sure why the formed (glove box dash) had shaped ends (a radius and then a flat) vs the manual saying Push the ends of the dash behind the top of the door hinge and screw through the hinge into the dash end. Maybe a bad description but the same result. See attached pic. I'm assuming that this is the mounting hole. I'm wondering how close the dash ends up to the body when completed. Can someone take a pic looking forward with the door open, showing how it meets the body, or is there a gap?

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[edwardb]

The molded dash from FF does have a return on the end that can be attached to the cockpit side of the firewall. But I wouldn't worry about that. For the aluminum dash, most of us just bend in the radius, tuck it behind the hinge, and let it float. There's really no reason to attach it. It's not going anywhere. You will need to trim the end of the PS so that it goes far enough in and under the body. It's important for your body and door fitment that the upper part of your dash doesn't interfere with or push against the underside of the body, especially at the dash ends. That's yet another reason why it's important to have the dash in the right location, and also to leave the ends flexible. A picture of the underside of the body and dash fitment wouldn't be too easy to take. FWIW, here's one of my last build with the ends bent and tucked behind the hinges. That's the best I could find.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Instrument%20Panel/th_IMG_4021_zpsqo3mmkcg.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Instrument%20Panel/IMG_4021_zpsqo3mmkcg.jpg.html)

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Edwardb. I formed the dash ends as suggested. I also added a center tray approx 12" wide in the center (bottom of dash, forward to frame) to mount the relays, etc... Waiting on ordered relays to arrive. Still need a harness plug for the VW relay (#111 941 583). Can't seem to find one. Waiting on padding too so I can work on finishing the dash. Dash to frame mounts installed 4 places. RT turn signal mount now installed. Mounted the heater, hopefully for the last time. Now I need to fab the mounting bracket for the 4-way valve.

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[edwardb]

The VW relay 111 941 583 looks like it's a normal 5-terminal relay. I had one in my Mk3 and that's what I recall as well. Suitable relay sockets are available at both DelCity.net and McMaster. Bare sockets or with wire leads.

[Ducky2009]

The VW relay 111 941 583 is not a std configuration. The connectors are spaced differently than most.

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[edwardb]

The VW relay 111 941 583 is not a std configuration. The connectors are spaced differently than most.

67307

Oops. So much for my memory. :p Maybe someone else knows where to find one. It wouldn't be terrible to use bare spade connectors and push onto the appropriate terminals.

[Ducky2009]

Finished installing heat shields to the front of the foot boxes. PS has a 4" inside section. DS headers wouldn't allow this. Headers installed. Drivers side was challenging.

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[GoDadGo]

Looks good, but man that Coyote doesn't give you much wiggle room.

[Ducky2009]

Was sick last week. Finally got back to work on the car. Heater is installed. Made a bracket to hold a 4-way valve and ran the FFR control cable through the firewall. Now I can circulate the water to the heater core, or shut off the heater core and still have the required recirculated water to the engine. Still need to made and add the restrictor into the hose. Made a bracket and installed the fuel tank vent. Also added a support bracket to the air filter. I felt like the filter was a little shaky. After installing the wiper motor I discovered the casting was cracked. Courtnie is taking care of me on this one. I made the glove box door today. Need to install the hinges and latch. Next step, pad the dash and add the leather.... Then the gauges. Still thinking thru the diode (RT turn signals) attachments. Thinking about making a plexiglass "insulation" box. To be continued...

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[Ducky2009]

I know several people talked about leveling the drive train. With the engine oil sump in the rear, I didn't think it needed to be completely level. While installing the headers I realized the oil pan (at the rear of the engine) was below the frame rails. I added a 3/4" trans shim, which brought the oil pan up above the frame rails. Time to revisit the pinion angle. The first pic is at a little too much of an camera angle to have a good view of how much the oil pan is down below the frame.

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EDITED 9/28/20
Decided to cut the bottom of the bell housing to increase the ground clearance.

[Ducky2009]

GoDadGo, it is rally tight. Only advantage is the spark plugs are on top, when they need changed. Some people talked about removing the steering shaft to install the engine. I discovered that if you tilt the PS down more than the DS, it will slip in, no problems.

[Ducky2009]

Anyone know where these brackets go? Not finding them in the manual.

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[Jeff Kleiner]

Those brackets are used with a donor fan shroud.

Jeff

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Jeff. When you get down to the last few parts and don't know where they go, you start to wonder what else you might have missed.

[Ducky2009]

Well, it's been two weeks with little progress. Been out of town but now getting back to work. I covered the dash with leather. Glove box lid is made but not covered yet. Still need to wire the gauges and RT turn signals. Next step, mask off and spray Al's Liner Heat and Noise Reducer, then Dynamat.

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[Ducky2009]

I purchased the Kirkey seats but also wanted the DS seat adjustment. With no floor support near the trans tunnel, I had to make special supports. Ended up attaching two rails from side to side and bolted the seat adjusters to the rails. The seat adjusters are mounted at the outside of the seat and approx 8.5" in (just past the seat center line). That leaves 6.5" cantilevered. The rails support my weight and also keep the aluminum seat from distorting. I used button head screws and a washer to keep the height as low as possible and have a smooth surface. I also added an extra hole behind the seat to rail bolt hole, to reach thru and tighten the rail to chassis bolt. I added 1/4" shims, between rails and floor pan (not shown). I also mounted the adjuster on the outside. It's originally intended to be near the tunnel, but thought it would look funny near the middle of the seat. The PS has spacers added (1" square tubing) to bring the height up to the DS height. PS - The rear bolts go all the way thru the floor pan. The front are hex head and can be reached with a wrench, top and bottom.

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[Jeff Kleiner]

Ducky,
Just a heads up...the Kirkeys are a tough & tight fit in the roadster. I suggest that you don't get too committed with making the installation permanent until you can work out the final placement with the body on.

Jeff

[Ducky2009]

Wiring now complete. The front parking lights would not work; discovered the wires was inserted incorrectly from the factory in the quick connect (parking lights and fan wires were reversed in the harness at the quick connect plug). Took an hour to figure that one out and fix. Now need to remove or mask everything and spray Al's Liner Heat and Noise Reducer, then Dynamat. Only if it would stop raining in Atlanta so I can roll it outside to spray. Getting closer to the first start.

[Ducky2009]

Started to engine yesterday for the first time. Checked the fluids and decided it was too last to do any more. This is the second start.

https://youtu.be/io0sYlr05Ig

Completed spraying the AL's heat and noise reducer coating. Ready to add the Dynamat. Still need to install the seat heaters. For those of you with Kirkey seat, did you install the seat heaters between the aluminum seat and behind the foam backing, or did you peel the foam loose from the seat cover and install in between?

[edwardb]

Looks and sounds good! Congrats on getting it running and driving. Can't help you with specifics on the Kirkey seats. But for the seat heaters, the pads have to be between the seat cover and the foam, e.g. right against the underside of the covering. You wouldn't feel them or do anything effective if behind the foam backing.

[wareaglescott]

Started to engine yesterday for the first time. Checked the fluids and decided it was too last to do any more. This is the second start.

https://youtu.be/io0sYlr05Ig

Completed spraying the AL's heat and noise reducer coating. Ready to add the Dynamat. Still need to install the seat heaters. For those of you with Kirkey seat, did you install the seat heaters between the aluminum seat and behind the foam backing, or did you peel the foam loose from the seat cover and install in between?

On Kirkeys I cut/peeled the foam away. Put the heater pad in there are reglued the foam. Works great. Real pain to do though.

[Ducky2009]

Need some help. I know I've seen alignment issues posted, but can't remember when/where. Someone posted an alignment tool to do it yourself.

ALSO: On the Coyote engine, when I turned off the engine, the electric cooling fan also shut off (master switch still on). On my daily driver, when the fan is running and I shut it down, the fan keeps running as needed. Anyone else see this issue? FYI... I wired the master switch same as Edwardb, power to the engine control unit at all times.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul and Wareaglescott. I thought so (seat heaters) but thought I'd ask before removing the foam padding.

[Ducky2009]

Need some help. I know I've seen alignment issues posted, but can't remember when/where. Someone posted an alignment tool to do it yourself.

ALSO: On the Coyote engine, when I turned off the engine, the electric cooling fan also shut off (master switch still on). On my daily driver, when the fan is running and I shut it down, the fan keeps running as needed. Anyone else see this issue? FYI... I wired the master switch same as Edwardb, power to the engine control unit at all times.

[edwardb]

Need some help. I know I've seen alignment issues posted, but can't remember when/where. Someone posted an alignment tool to do it yourself.

ALSO: On the Coyote engine, when I turned off the engine, the electric cooling fan also shut off (master switch still on). On my daily driver, when the fan is running and I shut it down, the fan keeps running as needed. Anyone else see this issue? FYI... I wired the master switch same as Edwardb, power to the engine control unit at all times.

The Coyote PCM shuts down the cooling fan when the key is turned off. Totally normal and I personally prefer that over it staying running. My experience so far with the Coyote, now about 500 miles, is that Ford is very conservative with the cooling fan. It turns on early and stays on most of the time. I talked to Ford tech support and they said this is OK and normal. They have it that way on purpose. I think more so on the Gen 2 crate. Others I've talked to have noticed the same thing. Point being the engine temp is very controlled and so far nowhere near overheating. Being all aluminum is also cools off pretty quickly when shut down. No issues whatsoever IMO that that fan shuts off with the ignition.

There are several choices for DIY alignment tools. I use the Specialty Products Company 91000 FasTrax Camber/Caster Gauge and am happy with it. If you have the newer FF wheels with the rounded edges near the rim, you will also need their 91030 FasTrax No Lip Adapters.

[Jacob]

Was sick last week. Finally got back to work on the car. Heater is installed. Made a bracket to hold a 4-way valve and ran the FFR control cable through the firewall. Now I can circulate the water to the heater core, or shut off the heater core and still have the required recirculated water to the engine. Still need to made and add the restrictor into the hose. Made a bracket and installed the fuel tank vent (Edwardb's design). Also added a support bracket to the air filter. I felt like the filter was a little shaky. After installing the wiper motor I discovered the casting was cracked. Courtnie is taking care of me on this one. I made the glove box door today. Need to install the hinges and latch. Next step, pad the dash and add the leather.... Then the gauges. Still thinking thru the diode (RT turn signals) attachments. Thinking about making a plexiglass "insulation" box. To be continued...

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I've seen several people use tank vents like pictured here, by the upper rear wheel area...just a question...should there be any concern about water being aspirated into the cell while wet weather driving? Just curious?

[edwardb]

I've seen several people use tank vents like pictured here, by the upper rear wheel area...just a question...should there be any concern about water being aspirated into the cell while wet weather driving? Just curious?

No, don't think that's an issue. That area is pretty tightly surrounded by the body and the rear splash guard. (Try reaching up in there to work and you'll see what I mean.) Not saying any dampness wouldn't get up there, but it's protected from direct spray. The opening is pointed up plus whatever pressure the vent itself has should be positive. Not pulling in moisture. I've used a setup like this twice, and been caught in the rain more than I want to talk about. I've never detected anything bad from it.

[Ducky2009]

Now in Go-Kart mode.

https://youtu.be/NgPnNOvVDOg

Still need to install the Dynamat and carpet, seat heaters and trunk carpet. Bodywork to begin in a week or so.

[wareaglescott]

Go cart looks great.
Are your neighbors on board with this project?
My supporters had great fun going for go cart rides. After 90 miles of never leaving my neighborhood I think I started to tick a few off though. haha Now I just leave the neighborhood as quietly as possible.

[Ducky2009]

Scott, So far no problems. Several people say they want a ride. Hoping to be street legal quickly. I'm going to set the body next week and start fitting the doors, hood, and trunk. I plan to be ready to paint, do the state safety inspection at that time and apply for the title before painting. Hoping to have paint and title complete at the same time.

[Ducky2009]

How many people who have a real leather dash treat the leather? Leather will absorb water (not that "I'll" ever get caught in the rain. haha) and I'm debating the need to treat the leather.

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[edwardb]

How many people who have a real leather dash treat the leather? Leather will absorb water (not that "I'll" ever get caught in the rain. haha) and I'm debating the need to treat the leather.

I have leather everywhere on my new build (dash, seats, door cards, center console) and I've been treating it with Meguiar's Gold Class Leather Cleaner and Conditioner. I've been caught in the rain already. "10% chance of afternoon storms" turned into a downpour for the last few miles of my drive home a couple weeks ago. Dried everything off when I got home and the leather didn't appear any different than the vinyl I've had on previous builds. To be honest, I'm more concerned about sunlight and UV damage than an occasional rainstorm. The Meguiar's product is supposed to help with that as well.

[Ducky2009]

I purchased the Fastrax caster/camber gauge and adjusted the alignment. The manual says caster should be 3 degrees for manual steering but 7 degrees for power steering. The problem is, while keeping camber at -0.5 degrees, I can only get to 5 degrees caster. The rear adjustment link is bottomed out (shortened as much as possible). Anyone else have this issue?



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[Jeff Kleiner]

Yes, a number of times. You need to shorten the adjustment sleeve by approximately 1/4". You may find that you have to cut a bit of length from the male stubs as well if they bottom out in the internal threads.

Jeff

[Ducky2009]

Yes, a number of times. You need to shorten the adjustment sleeve by approximately 1/4". You may find that you have to cut a bit of length from the male stubs as well if they bottom out in the internal threads.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff

[Ducky2009]

As I started the body prep, I noticed the windshield slots appear out of position. The DS slot is on the body joint lines. The PS slot is 1.5" inward of the joint line. Does the windshield mount that far off center or are the slots incorrectly located? Anyone else have this issue?

EDITED UPDATE...... If I hold a level up to the side of the car, the DS measures .75" less that the PS. The joint seams are not equal distance for the outside of the car.

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[edwardb]

As I started the body prep, I noticed the windshield slots appear out of position. The DS slot is on the body epoxy joint seam. The PS slot is 1.5" inward of the epoxy joint seam. Does the windshield mount that far off center or are the slots incorrectly located? Anyone else have this issue?

EDITED UPDATE...... If I hold a level up to the side of the car, the DS measures .75" less that the PS. The epoxy seams are not equal distance for the outside of the car.

The lines you see on the body aren't seams. The body is laid up in one piece. Those are more properly called parting lines, showing where the various mold pieces separate once the layup is complete. There's also no epoxy in the body. Is all vinylester resins.

Several points regarding the windshield cutouts. (1) They're purposely undersized, basically giving you a starting point. The final cutout will be somewhat larger and in my experience slightly angled. You want them big enough so that the windshield arms don't touch the body, but small enough that the provided trim plates cover the opening. There's quite a bit of wiggle room from the intial cutouts. (2) Don't assume the body or parting lines are symmetrical. Likely they aren't. I've never actually measured them, but the cutouts very well could be slightly different from side-to-side relative to the outside of the body or the parting lines. (3) Don't try to figure anything out until you have the body on the chassis and lined up exactly where it should be. Then use the underlying windshield chassis mounts to determine where the cutouts need to be while fitting the arms. They will need adjustment front to back as well as side-to-side. Worst case scenario, if they're in the wrong place it's relatively easy to fill and repair before paint and nobody will ever know.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Anyone else have this issue?...



There is no issue. The body parting lines are not symmetrical side to side. Here's how the windshield slots locate in relation after the windshield has been properly fitted:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/RyanW/100_4101.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/RyanW/100_4110.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

[Ducky2009]

There is no issue. The body parting lines are not symmetrical side to side. Here's how the windshield slots locate in relation after the windshield has been properly fitted:

Cheers,
Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Mine looks a lot like yours.

I'm prepping the body now to start the bodywork. Not sure how everyone else does it (in what order), but I plan to fill the body seams and semi-finish first, them install to chassis and work the doors, hood and truck joints. Not sure how many people prep and paint their own car.

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[Ducky2009]

Survey: How many people have stock cobra brake calipers and FFR manual (Wilwood) master cylinders? I've only go-carted around the neighborhood but not liking the feeling. I'm going to bleed them again to make sure there's no air trapped inside the lines.

I did set-up the footbox to be able to install a hydro-boost (drilled holes to mount, enlarged thru hole, set-up pedal to attach to and rivets a cover on).

[Ducky2009]

The Coyote CMCV valves are not working. Have a fault on the OBD reader. Called Ford Racing and they think it's electrical because of the fault reading. Today I did a vacuum test.... discovered ---no vacuum! I learned from Ford that the front vacuum connection (to the cold air feed) is a vacuum return line. Never heard of such a thing, not sure why it's needed. The vacuum to operate comes off the back of the manifold. The electrical connectors work in conjunction with the vacuum, if I had any vacuum. Time to call Ford back tomorrow.

EDITED: SEE POST #116 FOR THE CORRECT SET-UP

[wareaglescott]

The Coyote CMCV valves are not working. Have a fault on the OBD reader. Called Ford Racing and they think it's electrical because of the fault reading. Today I did a vacuum test.... discovered ---no vacuum! I learned from Ford that the front vacuum connection (to the cold air feed) is a vacuum return line. Never heard of such a thing, not sure why it's needed. The vacuum to operate comes off the back of the manifold. The electrical connectors work in conjunction with the vacuum, if I had any vacuum. Time to call Ford back tomorrow.

No reason to call Ford. Edwardb and me (mostly Paul) sorted this issue out and Paul documented the fix in a separate thread and his build thread. Can't remember the exact Pcode but I'm assuming you are looking at a P2004 & 2005?

Here ya go:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22472-Important-Information-Regarding-2015-2016-Coyote-CMCV-Plumbing&highlight=coyote+cmcv

You also may very well get a P0116 code. That is covered by Pauls thread also. Ford sent me a flash tuner to update the PCM and I sent it to Paul to fix that issue. You can either send yours in to them or get them to send a flash tuner to you if you get this fault.

[Ducky2009]

No reason to call Ford. Edwardb and me (mostly Paul) sorted this issue out and Paul documented the fix in a separate thread and his build thread. Can't remember the exact Pcode but I'm assuming you are looking at a P2004 & 2005?

Here ya go:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22472-Important-Information-Regarding-2015-2016-Coyote-CMCV-Plumbing&highlight=coyote+cmcv

You also may very well get a P0116 code. That is covered by Pauls thread also. Ford sent me a flash tuner to update the PCM and I sent it to Paul to fix that issue. You can either send yours in to them or get them to send a flash tuner to you if you get this fault.

Thanks Scott AND Paul. I have a 2017 Coyote and my set-up is listed at the end of this post.... Caps on the ports, no hose supplied with the engine. This is a BIG help, saving me lots of time researching this issue.

[edwardb]

Thanks Scott AND Paul. I have a 2017 Coyote and my set-up is listed at the end of this post.... Caps on the ports, no hose supplied with the engine. This is a BIG help, saving me lots of time researching this issue.

Yea, that thread turned a little south at the end :( but still has the information I think you need. Ignore the part about the DS hose to the intake. Obviously your newer engine is one that has that deleted. Eliminates having to make the connection in the Spectre intake. But the vacuum portion of the intake back to the CMCV circuit should eliminate the codes you're getting. I'm surprised that after this long Ford neither supplies the parts, mentions it in the instructions, or even seems to recognize the issue when you call the tech line. Every single person buying this crate engine has to deal with this or they'll get the codes and the CMCV circuit won't be working.

[Ducky2009]

CMCV issue is now resolved. I originally purchased a 1/2" to 1/4" 90 degree barb fitting for the fuel regulator vacuum supply. I cut the line at the rear of the engine and added a Y fitting, taking the new line to the CMCV solenoids (adding a F splitter to feed both). I'm thinking 1/4" line is sufficient. Fuel regulator needs vacuum, with no pressure loss. The CMCV system has a vacuum reservoir tank, still able to supply the CMCV vacuum in low vacuum running conditions (pedal to the floor). This setup allows the vacuum line to run under the manifold on the DS. Since I'm running a heater, I need the space above the intake to run the 5/8" Dia heater hoses.

FYI... When I purchased the 1/2" to 1/4" elbow they were .50 cents and $10 shipping, so I bought QTY-10 (US Plastics #62051). If you need one, message me and I'll send it to you.

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NOTE/EDITED: I DISCOVERED THAT THE ABOVE SET-UP IS INCORRECT. The Gen 2 Coyote has a vacuum reservoir canister under the intake manifold. The CMCV system NEEDS vacuum to hold the CMCV throttle valves open at full throttle. If set-up as stated above, at full throttle, the vacuum drops, allowing the valves to partially close, thus reducing performance. As shown below, the vacuum line on the PS of the engine should be connected to a vacuum supply up front. This line has a one-way valve, which allows the vacuum canister to retain vacuum at full throttle, thus keeping the CMCV valve open during full throttle, and the engine now operates at full performance.
Also, the Y & F vacuum lines (as stated in the above setup) to the CMCV's on the back are not needed. The CMCV's are already plumbed to the vacuum reservoir on the bottom side.

PS: If you add the manual CMCV Lockout plates to manually keep the port runners open, none of this is necessary, but fuel efficiency will suffer.

[Ducky2009]

Bodywork coming along. Plan to install body to chassis tomorrow. Still have lots of work to do. Hoping to attach doors, hood, and trunk soon.

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[Ducky2009]

Need help. I found two more brackets and not sure what they're for.

69050

[edwardb]

Need help. I found two more brackets and not sure what they're for.

69050

Hood pin brackets. You are using hood pins, right? :confused:

Not sure why FF keeps including those.

[Ducky2009]

Hood pin brackets. You are using hood pins, right? :confused:
Not sure why FF keeps including those.

Hood pins (on the front of the hood), no, I'm not using them.
Thanks Paul

[edwardb]

Hood pins (on the front of the hood), no, I'm not using them.
Thanks Paul

Maybe you didn't catch my feeble attempt at humor. Right, you're not using them. And neither have most of the other thousands of kits that have been produced with the now almost standard hood hinges. :rolleyes:

[Ducky2009]

Set the body for the first time. Definitely need to trim the truck sheet metal to allow the body to move forward about 1/2" or so. Also need to adjust the lower radiator hose to allow the bottom of the rad to swing downward to allow the sheet metal rad inlet to align correctly. Left the lower hose long on purpose till now.

[Ducky2009]

Has anyone else found the FFR drilled holes for the front bumper out of position? The body is sitting on the 3/4" rails at the hood opening. Th Radiator aluminum is aligned. Debating which to do, Drilling new holes in the body or in the frame mount brackets.

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[edwardb]

The body shouldn't be sitting on the 3/4-inch hood rails. It should be 1/2-inch or so above the rails. Cushioning material is provided in the kit for the gap. You'll have trouble with the hood fit and specifically the hinges if the gap isn't maintained. Among other things. Try mounting the body front using the holes provided. Don't make new ones. You'll probably need to reposition the radiator aluminum.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Paul is exactly right.

Jeff

[Ducky2009]

The body shouldn't be sitting on the 3/4-inch hood rails. It should be 1/2-inch or so above the rails. Cushioning material is provided in the kit for the gap. You'll have trouble with the hood fit and specifically the hinges if the gap isn't maintained. Among other things. Try mounting the body front using the holes provided. Don't make new ones. You'll probably need to reposition the radiator aluminum.

I did install the cushioning material. With it being a foam padding, it did flatten out (at the front end) most of the way under the weight of the body. Body not touching except at the front. The manual also says after installing the hood, "Use 1/8” long rivets to attach the bumpers through the body and into the frame". I'm thinking that would also pull the body down (compressing the foam cushion more).

I'll try lifting the front and installing the bolts thru the existing holes. This is going to lift the body approx 3/4" in the front. More to follow....

[Ducky2009]

I installed the front bumper bolts, adding a piece of rubber to center the bolt to the hole. I now have a 5/16" gap above the cushioning material on the 3/4" rails (both sides). This gap is the entire length of the hood. (Same on both ends). I inserted a wrench in the pic to highlight the gap (hard to see otherwise). I did set the hood on and it lined up with the body really well. Next question, what to use to shim the gap on the rails? Otherwise, when the rubber around the bolt is removed, the body will drop till it hits the bolts. I did not receive bumper bolt grommets with the bumpers (FFR) and I'm doubting if I had, it would be as stiff as the rubber I have in there now.

Also: When I add the hood rubber bumpers, do I rivet to the body only, to keep from pulling the body down?

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[edwardb]

I did install the cushioning material. With it being a foam padding, it did flatten out (at the front end) most of the way under the weight of the body. Body not touching except at the front. The manual also says after installing the hood, "Use 1/8” long rivets to attach the bumpers through the body and into the frame". I'm thinking that would also pull the body down (compressing the foam cushion more).

I'll try lifting the front and installing the bolts thru the existing holes. This is going to lift the body approx an inch in the front. More to follow....

The foam they provide is pretty soft. It won't hold the weight of the body. With the front attached at the quick jacks, the hood will hover above and the intention of the foam is just to fill the opening. Not hold it up. I switched to a higher density foam because I thought it looked better. But it's not necessary. It's also not necessary or IMO desirable to attach the body to the hood tubes. Most don't. If your hood is 1-inch above the 3/4-inch tubes with the body at the quick jack locations, something else isn't right. You do have the bulb seal on the firewall? How is alignment everywhere else?

[Ducky2009]

The foam they provide is pretty soft....... You do have the bulb seal on the firewall? How is alignment everywhere else?

The bulb seal is everywhere it's intended to be. The rear bumper bolts lined up perfectly. The bulb is somewhat flattened at the firewall. The underside of the body is touching the bottom of the frame on both sides, no gap at all.

If your body is above the frame rail, what is supporting it? Do you have rubber on the bumper bolts, or did you shim somewhere to support it?

[edwardb]

The bulb seal is everywhere it's intended to be. The rear bumper bolts lined up perfectly. The bulb is somewhat flattened at the firewall. The underside of the body is touching the bottom of the frame on both sides, no gap at all.

If your body is above the frame rail, what is supporting it? Do you have rubber on the bumper bolts, or did you shim somewhere to support it?

Sounds like you have the body where it needs to be. I don't know what else to say other than it's not supposed to touch the hood 3/4-inch tubes and there are several ways the nose is held up. Quick jacks bolts, radiator surround, wheel well liners, the bracket from the Q-J bolts to the running light area (relatively new) all work together. Even the hood attached to the frame mounted hinges with bumpers or cushion around the body opening contributes to holding everything in place. It ends up being quite solid. I personally like to use ********** grommets in the front Q-J mount holes. But lots are built without them.

For the record, what I've have been citing isn't just my opinion or how my builds have turned out. This is discussed quite a bit. Here's at least one thread on the other forum that has much of what I described from several well known builders: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/546761-front-bumper-something-seems-wrong.html

[Ducky2009]

......For the record, what I've have been citing isn't just my opinion or how my builds have turned out. This is discussed quite a bit. Here's at least one thread on the other forum that has much of what I described from several well known builders: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/546761-front-bumper-something-seems-wrong.html

Thanks for sharing the suggestions (experience) and link.

[Ducky2009]

The doors are now attached and trimmed. The PS door has a big gap, approx 5/16" on the bottom front radius. This pic is before I finished the rest of the gap. I aligned the top and moved it forward as much as possible... didn't trim the radius area at all. Delivered this way from FFR. Guess I'll be adding a little filler. I'll start on the hood, and the trunk if time permits tomorrow. Still need to radius the corners, attach to the bottom of the frame and fit the elephant ears. Side pipe opening need enlarged too.

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[GoDadGo]

I installed the front bumper bolts, adding a piece of rubber to center the bolt to the hole. I now have a 5/16" gap above the cushioning material on the 3/4" rails (both sides). This gap is the entire length of the hood. (Same on both ends). I inserted a wrench in the pic to highlight the gap (hard to see otherwise). I did set the hood on and it lined up with the body really well. Next question, what to use to shim the gap on the rails? Otherwise, when the rubber around the bolt is removed, the body will drop till it hits the bolts. I did not receive bumper bolt grommets with the bumpers (FFR) and I'm doubting if I had, it would be as stiff as the rubber I have in there now.

Also: When I add the hood rubber bumpers, do I rivet to the body only, to keep from pulling the body down?

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I had the same issue because I thought that the body should sit on 3/4" frame tubes instead of hoving over them.
When I installed the support brackets that attach to the parking lights, my body flexes up, opens up the front fender wells a bit and improves the jack bolt alignment.
I also purchased a thicker/denser foam that EdwardB told me about which supported the body better and filled the gap quite nicely when we did the last test fit.
Finally, I may add 3/4" spacer tubes to the frame on the sides of the hood brackets, but I'm still on the fence about doing that.

[awd-turbo]

What foam did you purchase go Daddy go???

[Ducky2009]

I added a temporary 3/4" wood shim (5" long) under the body, approx in line with the shocks. The bumper bolts are now approx centered in the body holes. I'd like to find a really dense foam ( or.....) to support the body. The gap tapers smaller by a little bit as you go toward the firewall. I can't see hanging the body on the bumper bolts, too much stress on the fiberglass body and the small park light bolts. If someone leaned on the top of the body near the wheel wells, excess stress .....

I also fit the doors and trunk. The hood is on but not trimmed yet. Body is attached to the underside of the chassis. Still need to install the elephant ears and radius the corners on all.

Realized I need to do four corner balance now. The frame is not level (parallel) to the floor. Need to adjust before making sure the engine is leveled and side pipe cutouts are adjusted.

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EDITED: I ended up purchasing 3/4" x 1" PVC (from Home Depot, intended to be used for window trim on houses). Ran it the length of the hood. Had to cut a slight taper to fill the gap without lifting the body. Didn't want someone to lean on the body (to look at the engine) and damage/crack it.

[WIS89]

She's looking good! You must be pretty stoked to be this close to paint.

I don't recall reading about your paint color choices. Would you consider sharing?

Congrats on getting close to the finish line, and for sharing all the build details. I am excited for you!

Regards,

Steve

[Ducky2009]

She's looking good! You must be pretty stoked to be this close to paint. I don't recall reading about your paint color choices. Would you consider sharing?
Congrats on getting close to the finish line, and for sharing all the build details. I am excited for you!
Regards,
Steve

Steve,
I'm painting it blue with white stripes (my wife's choice). I posted the pic on FB, the one with the doors and trunk/hood on and said I'm painting it blue/white and a (smart ***) friend suggested that I might be color blind, and "that's pretty funny looking racing stripes". You can ALWAYS count on your friends! haha

I'm still a few weeks before primer. I'm thinking I'll primer it, then have the GA safety inspection done and apply for a title while finish painting.

[GoDadGo]

I added a temporary 3/4" wood shim (5" long) under the body, approx in line with the shocks. The bumper bolts are now approx centered in the body holes. I'd like to find a really dense foam ( or.....) to support the body. The gap tapers smaller by a little bit as you go toward the firewall. I can't see hanging the body on the bumper bolts, too much stress on the fiberglass body and the small park light bolts. If someone leaned on the top of the body near the wheel wells, excess stress .....

I also fit the doors and trunk. The hood is on but not trimmed yet. Body is attached to the underside of the chassis. Still need to install the elephant ears and radius the corners on all.

Realized I need to do four corner balance now. The frame is not level (parallel) to the floor. Need to adjust before making sure the engine is leveled and side pipe cutouts are adjusted.

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I got it from McMaster, but don't recall the part number.
EdwardB would know because he remembers everything.

[edwardb]

I got it from McMaster, but don't recall the part number.
EdwardB would know because he remembers everything.

I can't remember all that stuff :) but my Excel spreadsheet does. McMaster part number 8512K96 is what I've used on two builds.

[Ducky2009]

For those of us installing wipers, here's the wiring electrical plug for the motor. ********** sells it for $15.
http://www.**********accessories.com/p-313-wiper-electrical-plug.aspx

69431

[Ducky2009]

OK, after three weeks of being sick (with pneumonia), I'm back to work. The trunk and doors are fit. Roll bars are in. Today's project...fit the hood, and ......

I did trim the body for the side pipes, but have a question. How much clearance did you allow between the body and pipes? I presently have approx 3/8". Not sure that's enough.

[Ducky2009]

Finished fitting the trunk, installing license plate bracket and latch and adjusting gaps. Installed the bulb seal to confirm correct gaps. (no pics ) Hood latches installed. I decided to not break off the small bottom tabs (only ground down to fiberglass thickness) on the latches, to give the the latch mount more twisting strength during opening/closing. Slotted the hood and mounted the brackets (screws) sideways to accept the tabs, instead of front to back as shown in the manual. Added small tapped plates under the top fiberglass layer to attach. Also added small holes to allow the Evercoat filler to seep in, hoping to add a little strength in the attachment. Drilled the latch bracket holes open to install 10-24 screws. Now ready to radius and install the alum latch brackets. Need to complete latches before final fit of the hood. The latches will help pull the hood corners down, allowing me to achieve hood gaps.

Wipers mounted, tubes cut and flared, and drive wire cut to length. Again, no pics. Also added body filler to top of door seams. Still need to finish.

Ready to go on vacation. Not much happening lately!

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[Ducky2009]

After seeing Duke's Graduation pics, I like the look of the hood without the scoop (and without the stripes). Has there been any research on airflow/engine temperatures under the hood without the scoop? I'm thinking I like the looks and now leaning towards leaving it off.

[GoDadGo]

After seeing Duke's Graduation pics, I like the look of the hood without the scoop (and without the stripes). Has there been any research on airflow/engine temperatures under the hood without the scoop? I'm thinking I like the looks and now leaning towards leaving it off.

Without a block off panel above the radiator the under hood air flow should not be an issue.
Since you are running a Coyote V/8 hood clearance should be fantastic too.
Shown below is a great example of another smooth hooded Cobra:

CSX-3178
https://youtu.be/FJpASOjJWa8
https://youtu.be/imF-_t6UixU

PS: It is also my motivation, minus the J-Style roll bar.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Steve. Glad I asked. Never thought about leaving out the block off panel. I do have a fan shroud, should be able to pull plenty of air thru, so shouldn't have an over-heat issue. Thanks for the videos. I do like the look with no scoop.

[wareaglescott]

Can't speak for the airflow without the scoop but I can tell you I've been driving my Coyote all summer in Alabama. Usual drives are 30-60 minutes and my temp never exceeds 85 C on the gauge. Generally runs 70-80. The Coyote seems to run pretty cool. As Edwardb has documented the fan runs almost the entire time. I wouldn't think you would have any problem either.

[Jeff Kleiner]

No scoop=no problem.

As an aside, a couple of years ago I did a roadster with no scoop, no side louvers, no sidepipes and no stripes. I got all done and almost felt like I cheated :)

Jeff

[Ducky2009]

Back from vacation and making some progress. Windshield fit. Ready to remove doors and radii the edges. Hood and trunk finished. Next step, prime and block sand.

71864

[Ducky2009]

Down to the last box of parts.... Sun visors and wind screens. Finished fitting the doors, trunk/hood, windshield, lights, side louvers, etc... before prepping for paint. Now ready to disassemble and start block sanding.

72305

[Ducky2009]

I think I'll go ahead and title the car and drive a little to check out everything before painting. I used the FFR complete kit supplied front Mustang cobra calipers and Mustang cobra rear calipers and the Willwood manual dual master cylinders. Not happen with the stopping power. Debating the hydro-boost or a vacuum boost. Anyone use either of these?

[Ducky2009]

I am now licensed and ready to put a few (lots, haha) miles on it. Waiting a month or so to paint. Also waiting to install carpet until I'm finished painting.


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[Yama-Bro]

Drive that thing!

[wareaglescott]

I notice your gwinnett tag. Did that pass emissions?

[Ducky2009]

I notice your gwinnett tag. Did that pass emissions?

Scott,
Don't have to for the fist two years. I also own property in Walton county where emissions is not required.

[Ducky2009]

Out for a ride.

https://youtu.be/6PvELli7tFQ

[Ducky2009]

So, after putting a few miles on the MK IV, I've decided to add power brakes. Currently running the Wilwood dual master cylinders, Mustang Cobra dual piston front calipers (standard FFR parts) and single piston rear. I looked into a couple of vendor options and realized how much they charge vs. what the parts cost, with a few minor modifications. I chose to buy the parts and make my own. Here's a list of parts and modifications, with pics.

Vacuum Booster - 1990 Mustang Vacuum Booster - No modifications, just adjustments to actuator shaft (to as short as possible). Autozone P/N 54-73207
Master Cylinder - 2000 Nissan Quest Master Cylinder (requires remote reservoirs) - Opened up the bolt holes to 3/8" (plus a little clearance), AND slotted the holes outward approx .060" on each side. Autozone P/N M4053
Master cylinder has 1/2" fluid (supply) lines - Adapters will be required to attach to reservoirs.
The Ford brake pedal will have to be modified to accept the booster actuator shaft.
NOTE: Ended up making a steel brake pedal. The aluminum Wilwood pedal web is too thin to hold up in the long run. See post #194
Spacer between the booster and master cylinder.
The pics show the shaft screw turned all the way in (shaft is as short as possible). Without the spacer, there is a gap between the booster and master cylinder (approx .225"). The spacer is 1/4" thk.

With the Wllwood master cylinders, 6 piston front and 4 piston rear, I'm sure the brakes would be ample. I didn't buy those calipers.

I originally planned to add a hydro-boost if I didn't like the manual brakes, so I made all the modifications early on. That includes mounting holes thru the foot box wall, enlarging the hole to allow clearance for the rubber boot on the booster, and made the brake pedal. I now decided vacuum would be easier to install/maintain than hydraulic.

This modification (less manhours of course) cost approx $150, assuming you already have/need to buy remote reservoirs.

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Edited 9/14/17
Additional items needed. Line adapter needed, QTY-2. 10M X 1.0 (Inverted Male end) to 3/8-24 (Inverted Female end). Autozone P/N BLF-29C $2.99 each.
The master cylinder is metric and the FFR lines are SAE
Also: I found out after the fact - The FFR kit came with QTY-3 spacers 3/16" thick (threw them in the "Not Needed" box). I needed 1/4", but could have used two from the kit.

Edited 2/17/18: Ended up NOT using the Line Adapters. I purchased a short metric brake line, cut the ends off, cut the SAE (non metric line) end off, added the metric fitting and re-flared the end. I didn't like how loose/sloppy the adapter threads were to the master cylinder and the fitting design (relief on the end), only inserted 3.5 turns. The metric ends had a better thread fit and inserted 5 turns.

See All Posts: #180, 184, 194 for complete set-up

[Paul2STL]

David,
Nice job collecting all the parts needed, way cheaper than buying that as a kit. One question are you going to space the booster off the wall so you can get a good stroke from your modified pedal? I am assuming you are going to do the frame mod your self to get the booster to fit. Hopefully this setup will work for you. Would like to see a pic of the pedal you modified. By the way still waiting on my pedal, called and left a message still don't know when Ill get it, 3 1/2 months and waiting. :mad::mad:

[Ducky2009]

David,
Nice job collecting all the parts needed, way cheaper than buying that as a kit. One question are you going to space the booster off the wall so you can get a good stroke from your modified pedal? I am assuming you are going to do the frame mod your self to get the booster to fit. Hopefully this setup will work for you. Would like to see a pic of the pedal you modified. By the way still waiting on my pedal, called and left a message still don't know when Ill get it, 3 1/2 months and waiting. :mad::mad:

Paul, Finding the correct parts wasn't too hard. I'll do it myself and make the work-around frame insert. I have access to a fab shop whenever I need something made.

[edwardb]

Paul, Finding the correct parts wasn't too hard. If I read the advertisement for the kit correctly, the spacers are only needed on the MK 3 to clear the steering. I don't think I need to cut the frame, according to my measurements (and the vendor pics) but if I do need to, I'll do it myself and make the work-around frame insert. I have access to a fab shop whenever I need something made.

I know you purchased the kit. Do the instructions say to cut the frame?

If you're speaking about the Whitby vacuum power brake kit, yes the instructions say to cut the frame and the kit includes a piece to replace the cut out section. These pictures are of the installation in my Mk3 build. This was a Mustang pedal box, so perhaps the location is slightly different than using the Wilwood pedal box. But I suspect that frame rail will interfere with your booster as well. As I side note, these pictures also show how different the footbox in the Mk3 was compared to the current Mk4. But the offending frame rail appears to be in the same location.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Brakes/IMG_1029.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Brakes/IMG_1029.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Brakes/IMG_1035%202_zpscjhicrqm.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Brakes/IMG_1035%202_zpscjhicrqm.jpg.html)

[Ducky2009]

David,
Nice job collecting all the parts needed, way cheaper than buying that as a kit. One question are you going to space the booster off the wall so you can get a good stroke from your modified pedal? I am assuming you are going to do the frame mod your self to get the booster to fit. Hopefully this setup will work for you. Would like to see a pic of the pedal you modified. By the way still waiting on my pedal, called and left a message still don't know when Ill get it, 3 1/2 months and waiting. :mad::mad:

Paul,
Not sure if I need to modify the frame rail yet. I know FFR modified the frame in July 2016. Prior to that, some people had to notch the clutch pedal or modify the frame rail if they used the Wilwood pedal box. I did neither, it fit as is. The rail is a little further outboard from the previous frame version. I've measured for the booster fit and it looks like it will be close to fitting as is. I think I'll need to use the booster spacers, but haven't tried it yet. Can't take a pic of the pedal mod, it's in the car. I plan to take the body off in early October to paint, and will install the brakes then.

[Ducky2009]

Week 27 update. Things I've learned

Make a center dash support (3/32" thick x 12" wide, from the bottom of the dash straight forward to the frame rail) REMOVEABLE if you're mounting the turn signal relays on it. I already have a relay fail.

EDITED: After removing the body, I changed the design to allow removal from inside the car. Attaching screws were originally installed from the top down, making access with the body on impossible.

Buy an extra gauge set-up wire/switch. The clock will need reset. It doesn't keep good time and need to be set back/spring forward, time changes..... Thanks Joel....aka Jdav
Buy the Wilwood calibers or add power brakes. Mustang Cobra calibers with Wilwood dual master cylinders suck.

Alignment - Trim the rear upper control arm to achieve 7 degrees caster. This moves the front wheel towards the rear of the wheel well. While adjusting the body on the chassis, this will help align/center the REAR wheel to the wheel well. If you aren't careful, the rear wheel will be out of center to the wheel well... to far back and LOOK funny. I used the solid rear axle, so adjusting the upper link as short as possible will help bring the wheel forward, helping center the rear wheel to the wheel well. After adjusting (to a short length), I them aligned the pinion angle as needed by adjusting the upper control arm mount.

Also: If you're tall like me, the DS footbox sheet metal rubs on your leg just above the ankle. (can't straighten my right leg all the way). When I remove the body to paint, I'm going to taper the sheet metal, starting close to the gas pedal, to look more like the PS.

Added 9/19/17
I plan to not have a hood scoop. I added the air dam panel at the top of the radiator. The under the hood temp has increased considerably. I can tell this because I haven't added the insulation up the sides of the foot boxes yet, so air is flowing from the engine compartment into the cockpit (at the door hinge area). The air temp flowing thru is much hotter then before the air dam was installed. The engine temp is the same, with and without the dam (85C - 185F). I think I'll remove it, permanently.

[Ducky2009]

Question: What type of trunk supports, struts, lift supports, whatever your brand calls them, did you use? How well did they work? Would you pick them again?

Thanks,
David.... aka Ducky2009

[Ducky2009]

Weekly Update: Not much happening since my surprise surgery, not 100% but feeling pretty good. Started on my door panels. Had leather left over from the dash. Need to borrow my daughters industrial sewing machine to stitch them up. Not sure what thread to use yet! Decided to use the old style clips to secure to the door. Added a pic - Not my car. Don't like the screws showing. Also want the pockets a little deeper than the pic. Clips allow you to remove if needed (but should never have to) without damaging the clips. Plan to add the 1/8" padding too, same as the dash.

74191 74192 74194

[carlewms]

Question: What type of trunk supports, struts, lift supports, whatever your brand calls them, did you use? How well did they work? Would you pick them again?

Thanks,
David.... aka Ducky2009

I am using the ********** version with some slight modifications:

The ********** Trunk Prop Rod is mocked up ... finally.

Borrowing on the work of others on the forum ... with a few modifications of my own. The biggest modification was to move the rod farther away from the trunk lip and mount the bottom bracket so that it would not interfere with the Breeze "D" trunk seal.

Using some scrap 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle aluminum bracket was fabricated to accept the rod's bracket on the inboard side, mount to the trunk lip and provide a location for the brace to the side of the trunk.

A brace was fashioned from some spare 1/2" aluminum tubing. The ends were flattened out and drilled for #10 - 24 x 1/2" bolt on the top and 3/16" rivet on the bottom.

The base of the upper support is a 1" x 2.5" x 1/4" aluminum block shaped to fit along side the "rib" on the trunk lid. Two #10-24 3/4" countersunk screws will be installed on the back (or top) of the block before it's secured to the lid with HSRF.

All the other hardware used are SS #10-24 1/2" bolts, Nyloc nuts and SS washers.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/000060644384/media/93313129641/medium/1502616437/enhance

After getting all the mounting hardware together I needed to position the lower and upper mounts so the Prop Rod would fully open the lid and clear the Breeze seal installed on the trunk lip.

The final position of the REAR of the mounts was 7" from the trunk edge on the body and 16 3/4" on the lid. After several tries I finally came to the realization that the darn thing could be in multiple possible positions as long as, with the trunk lid closed, no interference occurred with the body and the lid. The closer to the front; the higher the lid will open limited by the hinges. For this Prop Rod you do need to raise the trunk lid slightly to release the latch on the rod.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/000060644384/media/93313129630/medium/1502616435/enhance

The lower end of the Prop Rod is attached to bracket that is mounted on the edge or lip of the trunk and supported by a brace attached to the side of the inner trunk wall.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/000060644384/media/93313129642/medium/1502616437/enhance

The upper end is attached to a block "glued" to the trunk lid just inside the "rib".

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/000060644384/media/93313129643/medium/1502616437/enhance

The HSRF will be done after the body is removed for painting and the final installation after the final body installation.

Carl

[edwardb]

Question: What type of trunk supports, struts, lift supports, whatever your brand calls them, did you use? How well did they work? Would you pick them again?

Thanks, David.... aka Ducky2009

I used the gas strut setup from Mike Everson on #7750. Many like it, but I wasn't happy with how it was always pushing on the hinges and made alignment of the trunk lid very difficult. I never was able to get the lid completely flat to the body. Others reported the same thing. For #8674, I used the ********** prop rod that Carl showed. My attachments were slightly different (shown here in my build thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=260090&viewfull=1#post260090) but after living with it through one driving season, I'd use the same setup again. Works fine. Then there's just a simple prop rod that you raise into place when lifting the lid. Breeze sells one. They're also easy to make.


Started on my door panels. Had leather left over from the dash. Need to borrow my daughters industrial sewing machine to stitch them up. Not sure what thread to use yet! Decided to use the old style clips to secure to the door. Added a pic - Not my car. Don't like the screws showing. Also want the pockets a little deeper than the pic. Clips allow you to remove if needed (but should never have to) without damaging the clips. Plan to add the 1/8" padding too, same as the dash.

That picture #3 is my #7750 build. That's a standard Herb Fraser panel attached with automotive trim screws. Makes a very solid mount, but agree the screws don't look the best. For #8674, I made my own out of leather with 1/8-inch foam as well. Borrowed very heavily from Herb's design, but did make the pockets a little deeper. I also wanted the attachment to be invisible, and did look at clips like you show. I decided it would be difficult to use them without showing through the foam and leather (every little bump does show...) so went with multiple strips of 1-inch 3M Dual Lock Reclosable Fastener TB3550 250/250 Black on the back. Nearly through the first driving season (unfortunately) and they're hanging in there very well. We use the pockets all the time.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_4489_zpsehyzuitw.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_4489_zpsehyzuitw.jpg.html)

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Carl & Paul. I'm going to go with the Finish Line prop, same as you. I was originally thinking gas strut, but played with my Impala strut and felt that it was too stiff, same as your's Paul. Fishing the back-up place in - I like the idea, just need to see if "I" can get it there.

Door panels, third pic - Funny that it's yours, I found it on the web, no-ones name on it. Question - With three layers of leather at the pouch (back-up leather, pouch and face leather wrapped around), did the panel sit flat to the the door around the edges? I'm planning to use the metal clips and the 1/8" foam panning. I've discovered it if you add the foam over the clip and set a book on it overnight, the foam will permanently indent to the shape and not have a bulge. We'll see. Clips are due in by Friday.

Update: Just tried to order the trunk prop. Out of stock and 2-3 months wait. Didn't even want my name to let me know when they're available.

[edwardb]

Thanks Carl & Paul. I'm going to go with the Finish Line prop, same as you. I was originally thinking gas strut, but played with my Impala strut and felt that it was too stiff, same as your's Paul. Fishing the back-up place in - I like the idea, just need to see if "I" can get it there.

Door panels, third pic - Funny that it's yours, I found it on the web, no-ones name on it. Question - With three layers of leather at the pouch (back-up leather, pouch and face leather wrapped around), did the panel sit flat to the the door around the edges? I'm planning to use the metal clips and the 1/8" foam panning. I've discovered it if you add the foam over the clip and set a book on it overnight, the foam will permanently indent to the shape and not have a bulge. We'll see. Clips are due in by Friday.

Update: Just tried to order the trunk prop. Out of stock and 2-3 months wait. Didn't even want my name to let me know when they're available.

I was also worried about the thickness of the layers of leather. The 3M Dual Lock fastener material I used is almost the same thickness, so the panel sits flat. There's a slight gap along the edges, but it's not a big deal. The most noticeable would be the top edge, but it's hidden by the shape of the door.

I think that same prop rod is available elsewhere. It was used on a lot of British cars in that vintage. Here's at least one. Didn't check very closely to see if it's exactly the same, but might work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trunk-Prop-Rod-Latching-AC-Shelby-Cobra-Replica-ACE-Hot-Rod-Rat-Rod-/352072398174

[Ducky2009]

Purchased my trunk support, thanks Edwardb for your help. Made the rear view mirror bracket and installed, plus installed the small rubber hose to fill the slot at the top of the windshield. Found the bracket on-line but was out of stock - So I made my own. Still need to give it a polish finish. Will do it when I strip everything down to paint. Next problem..... Dropped the mirror and broke it! Time to re-order! :(

Next step - Add the door panel spring clips to the door panels and drill the mounting holes in the doors.



74517

Edited 3/30/20: Added the trunk support originally but didn't like the support connected only to the body. If you pushed down on the trunk, it would flex the body. Made a support bracket to extend to the inside of the trunk for added support. Note: I also added sheetmetal to the sides of the trunk.

I added bondo where the mount touches the inside of the trunk, to make the mounting surface flat. When installing the support, I made a 1/4" thick steel plate and installed in between the trunk lid inner and outer layers (through the opening used to wire the license plate light), in the raised rib on the inside of the trunk. It has two 1/4-20 tapped holes to accept the bolts. Also drilled a few extra holes and added a little bondo to secure it in place. Secured it tightly in place until the bondo dried.

If you want to know how I "fished" it into place, PM me. It took a while. :)

[Ducky2009]

Guess I'm on hold for a while. Dr told me to not lift more that 10 lbs for the next 6 weeks. Had my gallbladder out on the 22nd.

Decided to finish the door panels before drilling holes to mount, to make sure I'm happy with the end results. Still have a little bodywork around the gas filler, a little bit of a flat spot at the seam lines, and the radius around the top edge varies a little in size. I know these things will show up, especially with dark color paint. I'm still debating which dark blue color to use. Damascus blue, Caspian blue or Nightmist blue.

[Jazzman]

I'm still debating which dark blue color to use. Damascus blue, Caspian blue or Nightmist blue.

My opinion: YES!!

[WIS89]

Carl-

Sorry about the gall bladder! I hate it when the original parts start breaking down; the warranty really stinks, and replacement parts are very expensive, if you can find them! I hope you have a speedy recovery, and get back to building ASAP!

Nice job on the rear view mirror mount. I plan on doing the same. Hopefully I will have a similar result!

I look forward to watching the rest of your finishing details.

Regards,

Steve

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Steve. I feel better and THINK I can do a few things, but my wife is watching! LOL

While trying to finish up a few little things, I attempted to fine tune the headlight adjustment. Took the beauty ring off and part of the retaining clips (one on each side) fell out. Anyone else have this issue?

74647

[Ducky2009]

FFR came thru again! I emailed to ask if I could buy the headlight clips. Received an out-of-office reply from Tony. That was late last week. Received the clips today. Thanks FFR

[Ducky2009]

While waiting to recover from my "two" surgeries, I decided to order the little things I still needed (trunk light/switch, tapered header shim, etc.), then make the door panels. Guess I won't be painting till spring!:(

77200

[Paul2STL]

While waiting to recover from my "two" surgeries, I decided to order the little things I still needed (trunk light/switch, tapered header shim, etc.), then make the door panels. Guess I won't be painting till spring!:(

77200
Dave, nice job on the door panels I like the big pocket. I might take a crack at making some out of leather also. Have a pair of Herbs but would like to match the leather I'm going to put on the dash and center counsel.

[Ducky2009]

Tear down has started. Healed from (two) surgeries and weather is breaking. Planning to paint it myself, at the home garage. One more short vacation Thursday - Monday. Headed to Vegas... not to gamble, Sema Car show. Plan to make a side trip to the Shelby factory and museum while there. Next week final body prep will start. Need to radius the corners on the vents and header cutouts and block sand.

80491

[Jdav]

Tear down has started. Healed from (two) surgeries and weather is breaking. Planning to paint it myself, at the home garage. One more short vacation Thursday - Monday. Headed to Vegas... not to gamble. Plan to make a side trip to the Shelby factory and museum while there. Next week final body prep will start. Need to radius the corners on the vents and header cutouts and block sand.

80491

Glad to hear you are back in working condition!

[Ducky2009]

I have a small leak from the middle joint on the TKO600 trans. Finding small spots of fluid in the garage. Only leaks while running. Anyone have an issue like this?

UPDATE: Trans was leaking all the time, not just while running.

See post #189 & 193 for repair.

[SerpantFL]

Dave, Just finished your build thread. Very nice work indeed. Hope you are having a speedy recovery and have a safe trip to Vegas. The Shelby museum is a cool place and maybe if they know you are a builder, you can get to walk around the shop in back. The # 1 Shelby was classic nostalgia. Loved it, and it reinforced my love for the car and respect for the man.

[Ducky2009]

Adding power brakes.... cutting the 3/4"frame rail is still required. The FFR modified the MK4 frame in July 2017 (no longer need to modify frame or Wilwood clutch pedal to make it work), but not enough to add power brake booster without cutting the frame.

See All Posts: #156, 184, 194 for complete set-up

[Ducky2009]

Does anyone else have this issue?

The turn signal setup clicks off/cancels with little/no motion with a right turn. Turning left cancels ok. I checks the hub machining and its centered to the bolt pattern as it should be. I do have the turn signal shaft and steering wheel aligned evenly/level. The problem lies with the VW turn signals. See attached pics. As you can see, the canceling tabs inside are not centered to the hub. The magic marker mark/line is approx centered to the center of the tabs as best as I can hold by hand (the little dot is aligned to the screw to maintain alignment/clocking). The side view of the hub shows how much out of alignment it is. The marked area on the tab shows how much needing removed to even out.

I tried to email Russ but his inbox is full at this time. I'll try again later.

EDIT 2/15/18:
After modification, the turn signals cancel with 90 degree turn of the steering wheel, both directions.

80901 80902 80903 80904 80905 80906

[Ducky2009]

Dave, Just finished your build thread. Very nice work indeed. Hope you are having a speedy recovery and have a safe trip to Vegas. The Shelby museum is a cool place and maybe if they know you are a builder, you can get to walk around the shop in back. The # 1 Shelby was classic nostalgia. Loved it, and it reinforced my love for the car and respect for the man.

The museum and factory tour was great. The Shelby Cobra (aluminum body) was $162,000, without engine and trans. Fiberglass body was ONLY $92,000, without E & T. Glad I purchased a FFR Roadster. They are also making a 1,000 HP Shelby Mustang. After you purchase a stock Mustang, add another 50k for the mod. I asked the VP of engineering a few questions and he gave us (myself and son-in-law) a personal tour of the shop. Great place to stop in you/re in Vegas

[SerpantFL]

Dave, Welcome back. Pleased that you got a tour of the shop. Kinda figured that they respect builders like Caroll and would hook you up. P.S. thanks for the request... Anthony

[Ducky2009]

Power brakes now installed. Go-carted and works great. Needed a proportioning valve on the front, to prevent front wheel lock-ups. Didn't need an exotic shaped frame bracket that comes with some of the kits. The MK4 frame was modified in Mid 2017, moving the 3/4" outward from previous design. Only needed to move the rail out 3/4" to clear the booster. Also used the booster spacer (1/2" thk) from "Replicaparts" and 5/16" to 1/2" fluid line union barb fittings/adapters. See posts #156 & 180 for parts list and pics.

Edited 3/6/18: Added the last pic with hoses clamped, 5/16 to 1/2 line adapters and reservoir location. Originally had the remote reservoirs too far forward. Would have interfered with the hood struts.

See All Posts: #156, 180, 194 for complete set-up.

[SerpantFL]

David, Nice mod on the frame for the booster. I see those plastic fittings on the booster look barbed. I don't see any clamps used. What kind of pressures, if you know, are generated by the brakes?

[Ducky2009]

David, Nice mod on the frame for the booster. I see those plastic fittings on the booster look barbed. I don't see any clamps used. What kind of pressures, if you know, are generated by the brakes?

Master cylinder fittings are barbed, I have not added clamps "Yet", but I will. Another trip to AutoZone. Gravity fed from Reservoir to MC, no pressure.

[SerpantFL]

Nice, just saw and was curious... Have to admit though, I was acquiring build tidbits... If I understand post # 185, you had to move the rail out an additional 3/4 inch? I see where you bolted the forward rail, I suspect the rear section is inside the panel? Now I see the inside mount... Nice...

[Ducky2009]

I decided to modify the DS footbox. At 6'2" and with Kirkey seats, I found my right legs resting against the 45 degree bend in the stock sheetmetal..... not very comfortable. Did I mention by knees bother me and I want to straighten my legs as much as possible. Now the DS footbox looks more like the PS footbox. Also added Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer).

[Ducky2009]

Earlier I posted about my TKO 600 trans leaking at the tail shaft joint. I contacted Tremec (email) and explained that I purchased the trans one year ago, licensed the car in Sept and only has 500 miles on the car. Found out the warranty is ONLY 90 DAYS! I asked what type of gasket sealer is used and the only response I received was:

Good morning David
The TKO-series uses anaerobic sealer (similar to Permatex 518) at that joint
Thank you

I did find a repair manual on-line and can repair this myself (not something I'd recommend if you don't have transmission experience). Also looks like I can do this while still in the car, still attached to the bell housing. More to follow.

See post #193 for repair
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23523-Ducky2009-MK4-Build-9035&p=315022&viewfull=1#post315022

[SerpantFL]

Hi David, Kind of a terse response. There isn't a seal that can be replaced? What a pain to have to do that at this stage. How you feeling BTW?

[Ducky2009]

Hi David, Kind of a terse response. There isn't a seal that can be replaced? What a pain to have to do that at this stage. How you feeling BTW?

Correct, there is no gasket. The joint is seals with gasket sealer, Permatex or equivalent. Sealant "says" it can fill a .015 gap.

See post #193 for repair.

I'm feeling great now. I have been physically able to get back to normal, but turned out that some of the dessolvable stitched would not dissolve. My body treated them like a foreign object (kind of like when your body pushes a splinter out), pushed them out, so it took till last week to finally heal completely.
Thanks for asking!

[Straversi]

I decided to modify the DS footbox. At 6'2" and with Kirkey seats, I found my right legs resting against the 45 degree bend in the stock sheetmetal..... not very comfortable. Did I mention by knees bother me and I want to straighten my legs as much as possible. Now the DS footbox looks more like the PS footbox. Also added Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer).

Nice work. That mod makes such a big difference for long legs.
-Steve

[Ducky2009]

MY TKO 600 Trans leak is now repaired.
NOTE: Transmission leaking at rear extension case to front case joint.
Step 1 - Support engine/trans at the bell housing. Remove trans mount. Remove drive shaft.
Step 2 - Shift trans to neutral.
Step 3 - Remove four bolts and middle inspection cover. Remove six bolts and shifter tower housing.
Step 4 - Using a 3/16 pin punch, mark punch with tape as shown. Outer lugs - .825. Center lug - 1.150. This will drive the pins through the shifter shaft but not out of the lugs. NOTE: DO NOT DRIVE THE PINS ALL THE WAY OUT OF THE SHIFTER LUGS. Doing so will require removal of rear extension case to retrieve the pins - NOT POSSIBLE WHILE TRANS IS STILL IN THE CAR.
Step 5 - Remove outer shifter lugs first, then the center lug. NOTE: You'll need to move the shafts forward to get the lugs off the shafts. Do NOT remove the grease on the lugs.
Step 6 - Remove the six bolts holding the rear extension case. Separate rear case from front case.
Step 7 - Inspect the O-Rings on the Shifter shafts. Replace as needed.
Step 8 - Clean gasket surfaces and apply new gasket seal, Anaerobic Gasket Maker. Instructions call for only an 1/8" bead. NOTE: Do NOT let the sealer "Skin Over". Apply sealant and reassemble in less than five minutes.
Step 9 - Re-install rear case, install six bolts and torque to 42-50 Ft-lbs.
Step 10 - Re-install the shifter lugs, center lug first. Move each shift shaft/lug back to the neutral position after installation. NOTE: Start the roll pins on the top side of the lugs while on the workbench, slide in place and drive pins in.
Step 11 - Apply RTV and Re-install middle cover and Shifter Tower, torque to 18-22 ft-lbs.
Step 12 - Wait 24 hours then fill with appropriate fluid.

Edited 3/1/18
From 2bking: "When the tail housing is separated, there is a possibility the counter shaft bearing race will slide from its slip fit blind bore. The preload shims are behind the race and can fall out."
Thanks for pointing this out.
See last pic. Shims and race are in place.

[Ducky2009]

Finally had time to make my power brake pedal. I originally drilled and tapped a hole in the aluminum Wilwood pedal to set-up the power brakes and adjust the proportioning valve. Not intended to be a long-term solution. The cast aluminum web is only approx 3/16" thick, not enough to have much strength.

See All Posts: #156, 180, 184 for complete set-up

[Al_C]

I decided to modify the DS footbox. At 6'2" and with Kirkey seats, I found my right legs resting against the 45 degree bend in the stock sheetmetal..... not very comfortable. Did I mention by knees bother me and I want to straighten my legs as much as possible. Now the DS footbox looks more like the PS footbox. Also added Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer).

I guess I'm surprised that you didn't have sufficient room, especially given that you have the latest version of the footbox sheetmetal. But, it's not my car... I'm a couple of inches shorter than you and I have enough room. Then again, I've been fortunate that my knees are still holding up :) It looks like you extended the inside wall mostly at the transmission end of the footbox?

[Ducky2009]

I guess I'm surprised that you didn't have sufficient room, especially given that you have the latest version of the footbox sheetmetal. But, it's not my car... I'm a couple of inches shorter than you and I have enough room. Then again, I've been fortunate that my knees are still holding up :) It looks like you extended the inside wall mostly at the transmission end of the footbox?

Al,

With the Kirkey seat set-up I can't straighten my right leg out while driving. (The back of the seat, at floor level, is several inches from the cockpit wall. The seat tilts back a little, so you have to shift it forward so the top doesn't hit the body lip in the back). I still can't straighten my leg all the way but I not longer have the bumps. I started at the trans tunnel end... it tapers it in a straight line all the way to the gas pedal. Took the 45 degree bend out. It is a little wider at the gas pedal too.

ALSO: The new footbox adds width, not length..... I think

[Ducky2009]

And the painting begins. Everything's in primer but found a few pin holes that I missed and a small spot on the body that needs some work before paint. Not sure how I missed it. Hoping the weather holds out... no rain in the next few days.

Edited 3/18/18: With a few nice days, I was able to paint. Still need to add the clear coat. Starting to rain again, so too much humidity in the air. The disadvantages of painting at home.

[Ducky2009]

So I wet sanded my paint and ready to apply the last coat and clear coat. Waiting for the weather to cooperate. Friday is looking good! Sprayed a little water over the fender to show the wife the final color. I originally wanted a much darker blue.

QUESTION: Has anyone ever painted the aluminum louvers? What type of etch did you use? I've never painted aluminum.

[Straversi]

Beautiful!
What color is that?
-Steve

[Jazzman]

I decided to modify the DS footbox. At 6'2" and with Kirkey seats, I found my right legs resting against the 45 degree bend in the stock sheetmetal..... not very comfortable. Did I mention by knees bother me and I want to straighten my legs as much as possible. Now the DS footbox looks more like the PS footbox. Also added Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer).

I so wish I had done this!! Good job. I'll bet that is a real improvement.

[Ducky2009]

Beautiful!
What color is that?
-Steve

Steve,

I purchased the paint from "Paint My Ride", color B-5-09600.500. Not sure the color has a name but I'll double check. Picked it from a color chart. The paint is Mipa brand, a German company. I asked a friend (retired paint shop owner) about Nason paint, what a local supply house wanted to sell me. He told me it's OK, but not the easiest to spray and recommended Mipa. He also asked me if I wanted to spray two layers of different colors (base and top coat, plus clear), or one layer of a high quality paint and clear. It cost more, but about the same as purchasing multiple layers paint.

Edited: The color doesn't have a name.

[Ducky2009]

The weather finally cooperated and I was able to apply the final coats of paint and clear. In a previous pic, the color looks light blue. That was after I wet sanded to prep for final spray. I purchased a darker blue but sample cards can be deceiving, depending on the light, but there was a pretty big difference. I'm now waiting a few days before sanding/buffing.

NOTE: I did learn a neat trick recently. I didn't do it, but a friend did. He wanted a two-tone paint job, but did it with the primer. The body lines (1957 Buick) gave a nice separation point. He used two different primers, light and dark, and one color of paint.

[Ducky2009]

Realized my last pics didn't really show the color very well. Finally wet sanded and ready to buff the body. Still need to sand the doors, trunk and hood. I ended up with one run in the clear but was able to sand it out..

[Ducky2009]

I found automotive unbacked carpet for my trunk. It's 18 OZ weight, pretty easy to work with. Since the car is blue, I choose blue carpet.

I also installed LED trunk lights. Found a 16' strand on-line. The didn't trust the self-adhesive backing, it didn't seem very tacky. Ended up buying 3/8" clear tubing and sliding the LED lights inside and attaching to the 3/4" trunk rails. Used 10' to go all the way around the upper part of the trunk.

[sbhunter]

Beautiful color. Nicely done. I have the utmost respect for those of you that do your own body and paint work.

[Ducky2009]

I've been a little slow to get the body back on the chassis. Vacations and grandbabies has taken precedents.

I checked the gap between the body and footboxes before removing the body to paint. Checking in a horizontal direction on the PS, the gap measured a little more than 2". The drivers side is a little less. Made a body template (inside of the body) then made the reverse image and held it over the footbox. The top of the DS footbox had a large gap.... see pic. The supplies insulation is not thick enough to seal this gap. Has anyone else had this issue?

[DavidW]

I just put the insulation in my Roadster between the footbox and the body, after paint and after the body was installed. I used this product from McMaster-Carr #7650A14, they do have other sizes and its easy to layer on top, or back to back to fill the gap. I took the advice from Edwards build. https://www.mcmaster.com/#7650a14/=1cp1k07

[Ducky2009]

I just put the insulation in my Roadster between the footbox and the body, after paint and after the body was installed. I used this product from McMaster-Carr #7650A14, they do have other sizes and its easy to layer on top, or back to back to fill the gap. I took the advice from Edwards build. https://www.mcmaster.com/#7650a14/=1cp1k07

DavidW,

Guess it never occurred to me to install after the body is on. The manual says to install first. With the McMaster product with the Adhesive back, was it difficult to install?

[GoDadGo]

Guys,

Thanks for the tip for the Foot Box Insulation installation.
I was looking at that yesterday since my body is on the car, which is unpainted at this point in time.

Steve

PS: Love The Color!

[DavidW]

DavidW,

Guess it never occurred to me to install after the body is on. The manual says to install first. With the McMaster product with the Adhesive back, was it difficult to install?

It was easy. After its unrolled it stays compressed long enough to fit it in the gap, reaching in the wheel well.

[Ducky2009]

Paint update. Sad to say I had a few issues. Paint sprayed great and so did the clear (in March). Problem was... didn't spray enough clear and sanded/buffed thru it. Needed more paint to touch-up. Picked up paint and resprayed. Started to buff and realized the color didn't match. It was a little darker, but noticeably so. Also had silver metal flake in the beginning......Touch up paint had blue metal flake. Ended up prepping/sanding entire car for repaint. Sprayed paint, went great, but the clear was not going on very well (in June). It was 90 plus degrees out and I believe my air compressor is too small and the moisture trap can't keep up with the humid conditions. Home garage isn't the cleanest environment either.

I was pretty frustrated and ready to pay someone at this point. I tried to reach out to a few painters, to turn it over to them, but never got any responses. UPDATE: Jeff did get back with me...... THANKS! He was just out of town for a few weeks.

End result, found out a friend has a paint booth. He let me in over a weekend, so I can spray and not interfere with his schedule. Also making a slight change in color. Still metal flake blue, just a little lighter. Realized if it ever needs touched up and I'm not in Georgia, I would probably have issues matching it. Its Mipa brand... not something everyone carries. New color Lighting Blue Metal flake, same as on a 2018 mustang GT. Pictures to follow.

[Ducky2009]

As I'm cleaning chrome, prep for final assy, I noticed the speedo bezel "chrome" is starting to blister/peal. Called Speed Hut and they are sending new ones out to me, no charge. The speedo and tack are both flaking.

[Ducky2009]

Ready to paint, AGAIN. My friend is letting me in over the weekend.

[Ducky2009]

Can someone check their front body mount brackets please. See attached pic. Are your brackets the same width, or different like mine. FFR tells me their good as is, build it. I can't install the DS unless I slot the bumper bolt holes in the frame or the brackets.

Note: My brackets are bent in different places...... are yours?

Thanks
David aka Ducky

[Paul2STL]

David,

Those are not right just checked mine and they are both bent at the first notch up the leg or second notch from where the light mounts. I think the person bending them must of been first day on the job.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul.

Sent pics and talked to FFR....... After sending more pics (attached below), they are now sending me new brackets.

[Ducky2009]

I finished the paint, second time around. Looks great. Nothing has been cut/buffed yet in these pics except the hood. Amazed at how well it came out. A friend let me use his paint booth over the weekend. I hadn't sprayed a car in years. With his guidance, I think I did a pretty good job.

[Railroad]

Very nice job!

[Ducky2009]

Very nice job!

Thanks Joe, and thanks for sending $$ for the studs/shipping. You didn't have to.

[Straversi]

Looks fantastic.
-Steve

[Paul2STL]

David,

Nice paint love the blue. Glad it worked out for you that you could find a booth to do it in. Its good that FFR replaced the bracket for you.

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul and Steve.

Apologies for sounding harsh in an earlier post (now edited) about the brackets. Maybe if I had sent better pics in the beginning, it would have been resolved instantly.

[Ducky2009]

Starting final assembly. Bad part, leaving town till Monday.

[GoDadGo]

Wow!
Looks Better Than Ever!

[Ducky2009]

Finally completing the assembly. A few minor things to do. Need to add FFR and Ford Coyote badging and the front bumper hoop. Thinking about adding a grill. No scoop at this time, but I did paint it. Debating adding it.

[wareaglescott]

Looks great. The no stripe/no hood scoop makes it somewhat unique. Great looking color.

[Ducky2009]

Looks great. The no stripe/no hood scoop makes it somewhat unique. Great looking color.

Thanks Scott. The original AC Cobra's didn't have stripes or hood scoops. I also painted the side louvers, same as the original cars.

Thinking about adding the grill. What do you think, should I?

[Jdav]

Great job David

[Ducky2009]

Great job David

Thanks Joel. How is your's coming. Any paint yet?

Now that I'm finished, looks like I might be going to Miami for the month of August. Maybe it will be cooler when I return. :)

[Jdav]

Thanks Joel. How is your's coming. Any paint yet?

Now that I'm finished, looks like I might be going to Miami for the month of August. Maybe it will be cooler when I return. :)

It was in slick sand this week so shouldn’t be too much longer!

[Ducky2009]

What does your carpet look like around the door latch? NOTE: The carpet edging is sewn to the front side of the carpet but not the back yet. Wanted to verify fit first, in case I needed to trim it. The under door aluminum has a small finger extending up that is not the width of the gap between the body and the latch mount. I don't believe that I trimmed the cockpit rear corner sections when installing.

Please share pics.

[edwardb]

That's not an easy place to make look decent. I'm not 100% satisfied with what I did, but it's not something that sticks out. The first picture below is the best one I have. You can zoom in on the area in question. I did binding on the carpet, similar to what you're working on. The carpet on the back wall will finish it at the top. That little finger on the sheet metal is (I guess) supposed to fill the open area from the inside of the rear wheel well. I made fill panels for the wheel well and cut those fingers off. Second picture. Once I was done, there was a gap between the body and the latch, but it's dark when filled from the other side. Plus I think mine is a little narrower than yours.


http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_1075_zpsih6hkp9n.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_1075_zpsih6hkp9n.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2011282016/IMG_4408_zpswmsijrcp.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2011282016/IMG_4408_zpswmsijrcp.jpg.html)

[Straversi]

Mine looks like yours on the driver’s side. The finger looks odd. Haven’t decided what to do yet. The gap on the passenger side is smaller and the finger seems to close it off ok.
-Steve

[Ducky2009]

Thanks Paul, Steve. Both sides are about the same gap. I think I'll add some filler plates. Surprised the carpet wasn't long enough to cover it. I did add cover/fill panels in the wheel wells. Without them, you could see through into the cockpit.

[Ducky2009]

600 miles on the tires and I pick up a roofing nail. You can see by the angel that it’s too close to the sidewall (actually in the tread, out the inside of the tire, in the sidewall area). Couldn't plug! Several new roofs in my neighborhood, should have know.

[Al_C]

David - the car looks great! My opinion - no grill, but that's just me. Sorry to hear about the nail in the tire, too.

[DavidW]

That area at the door catch is covered up when the door is closed but it is an eye sore.
Here are some pictures, you cant really see but that small aluminum piece is visible. I might take some black silicon or some other product and fill it in. Good luck.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83668&d=1523110978
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89344&d=1532372475
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89343&d=1532372467

[Ducky2009]

Thanks for sharing DavidW. Looks like you found some extra carpet to fill the void.
Made/added an additional pieces around the doors. Pic doesn't show.... I added a 90 degree bend with a 1/8" lip on the body side to stiffen it up.

[Ducky2009]

I tried the 0-60 feature. Second try was 3.83. Could probably do a little better. First try (4.4) was an easy takeoff, didn't burn tires. Second was a little hotter, but not too hard a launch.

Anyone else try it out?

[Ducky2009]

Took a short drive yesterday and when I parked, I discovered that I again have a trans oil leak. I originally called Tremec and was told to use Permatex Anaerobic gasket maker, and did. As I'm taking it apart I discover that the little bit inside is still soft/gooey. The cases must be a really tight fit, couldn't see a dried film where the flanges meet. As recommended, I let it cure 24 hours before adding oil (the first time).

Anyone else have an issue a second time?

[Ducky2009]

David - the car looks great! My opinion - no grill, but that's just me. Sorry to hear about the nail in the tire, too.

Al, I have a friend with a water-jet machine and he is making the grille parts for me. I still have to make the perimeter loop and weld it all together. Was originally going to make it from aluminum, thought I was going to mill the slots where it fits together. He suggested making it from SST and has some extra on hand. He thought it would look better, nice and shinny and it would, but told me I'd have to do the polishing. LOL. Pics to follow, but it will be a while. I'll be in Miami on and off until the middle of Nov. I'm retired but contracted to do some consulting work for an aviation company in Miami, and it happens to be 15 minuted from my 2 year old grandson. Couldn't pass it up.

[Ducky2009]

I ended up adding plates around the door latches. They're only visible when the door is open. As Paul suggested, I added plates in the wheel well. Also added edging to the carpet. The PS bulb seal is showing more than the DS. I'll try to adjust more.

Trans re-assembled. Hopefully no more leaks in the future.

Still need to add bulb seal around the hood and doors.

[Ducky2009]

Took a short ride on a cold day (55 degrees). Zero traction.

https://youtu.be/7oHaXhmEFS0

[Ducky2009]

I was out of town for 2 weeks and when I came home, the Roadster would not start.... A dead battery. I charged the battery overnight. The headlights were bright but the car wouldn't start. Thought it was the starter. Tried using jumper cables to the starter after removing it. Solenoid engaged but the gear didn't turn. Was ready to buy a new starter. A friend suggested I use a different car and try again. Starter worked fine.

Turns out the battery wasn't putting enough AMPS out. Powermaster starter's don't work with a weak battery.

Moral of the story: I added a trickle charger for when I'm away.

EDITED:
Ending up discovering my radio was causing a drain on the battery. With the key (and master switch) off, the radio lights would be glowing. Removed the radio, added a blue tooth receiver and an amp. Now use my phone for music.

[GoDadGo]

Thanks For The Suggestions!

We just got back from a recent trip as well.

[Fixit]

I have two of these, and fully endorse them Battery Tender Plus (http://products.batterytender.com/Dion/Battery-TenderR-Plus.html)

I use one on my El Camino, and the other on the boat battery (when it's pulled for the season).

[JoeAIII]

I have one of the multi-head battery tenders on my wishlist to maintain the batteries on all the garage toys.

[Ducky2009]

Just started to charge my oil. Problem is, I was told the engine is the same as a Mustang. That new filter is a Ford FL500S, and it hits the frame. It’s approx 3/4” longer than the one that came on the engine. I called Ford Racing, where I purchased the engine, and they are telling me the short one that came on the engine shouldn’t be used at all. Only installed to ship the engine and should be removed and replaced. They suggest using a remote setup, which I have, but didn’t use because it fit as delivered.

How many people have used the supplied one?
How many have used the remote filter?

Thanks
David aka Ducky 2009

[wareaglescott]

I have used the short one that fits. On my third one now. First I have heard about this.

[Paul2STL]

I am using the Ford one that came with the engine and have 800 miles on it no problems. Will be changing oil at 1000 using a Mobile one M1-113 filter it is the same size as the one that came on the engine. I believe Edwardb posted it in his roadster build. I am not using a remote oil filter myself. I think the smaller on is fine especially with most roadster owners who will take extra care of their cars. I plan to change it at 3000 miles where as a lot of OEMs suggest changing at 7-10k now days. This is from the owners manual for a 2017 Mustang GT 5.0




When to expect the message prompting you to change your oil


Interval
Vehicle use and example


7000–10000 mi (12,000–16,000 km)
Normal


Normal commuting with highway driving. No, or moderate, load or towing. Flat to moderately hilly roads. No extended idling.


5000–7000 mi (8,000–11,999 km)
Severe


Moderate to heavy load or towing. Mountainous or off-road conditions. Extended idling. Extended hot or cold operation. High engine speeds and loads, engine braking and hard cornering.


3000–5000 mi (4,800–7,999 km)
Extreme


Maximum load or towing. Extreme hot or cold operation.