Star Mobile 1 Build

[JOP33]

So after much deliberation, the culmination of (thankful) feedback & input from many of you & the timeliness of a sale from FFR...I pulled the trigger on the purchase of my 33' FFR Hotrod...aka Star Mobile One (see avatar) on Thursday of this last week. I will pause for a moment here so all the Cowboy jokes can be voiced................Yes, I am a Cowboy faithful, through & through, in good times & bad, for as far back as I can remember, so, at least at this point, my 33' will carry a Cowboys theme. It's already been suggested that I just paint the car silver and put a magnetic star on it, so I can remove it when they lose late in the season (this would be difficult unless I opted for the new steel body, but I understand the jist). And yes it does weaken my heart slightly to know that SM1 will be birthed in the heart of Patriot country! But what can I say, other than good thing they aren't responsible for inflating the tires...& that will be the extent of my dismay.
I am not, nor pretend to be, gear head by nature, but I have always been an admirer of cars (older models rather than newer, but I do love the new technology) & those that had the expertise & knowledge to work on them. I also must admit that left to my own guidance of piecing an entire vehicle together, well let's just say it would not be pretty. However, for the last year I have been on a search to find a hobby. Something that will challenge me, but will also stoke the fire of pride. My wife paraphrases all of this as just "keeping me busy" (she'd prefer I find a hobby that generates money rather than something that sucks every last penny we have away from us), but she still wants me to do something I enjoy in my free time & I have moved forward with her blessing. Her only request was that it be "hardtop" capable and have AC. So I stumbled onto FFR's website one day. Low and behold, not only is there a kit car out there that has a little bit of style, but it comes complete with instructions (I know, some of the instructions are a bit questionable, but believe me, in my case some are better than none). After doing a several months of research...I was hooked!
So I really appreciate (and enjoy) the build threads that so many of you have taken the time to put together. They are a blast to read and it's amazing to see what so many of you have been able to accomplish. It's incredible to see the many variations of the same vehicle that have been done and no two alike. I find myself re-reading them often & finding something new everytime. I am hoping to document my build here as well, if the committment of the build alone isn't too overwhelming for me. I don't know how informational a documented build by someone that doesn't know what they are doing is, but it should at least be fun, maybe even comical at times. SM1 is scheduled to be delivered by Stewart at the end of March to early April. I know we are still a ways off, but I think there is still plenty to do. I am scheduled for build school the first week of March, so I am hoping that will be a good investment and will help me be successful with my build. Until then I have a shop to get ready as I am actually looking at installing a lift, and it gives me lots of time to second guess the choices I've made. As always, I am open to your feedback, input, thoughts, opinions and criticisms (remember, it's easier to be critical than correct). Here's to making it to the other side!

Conceptual pics for Star Mobile 1 Coupe...63347

Conceptual pic for Star Mobile 1 Roadster...63348

Future home of SM1...63345

Layout for Auto Lift (white tape)...63346

[Midwest 33 Build]

Congratulations JOP33 !!! Drawings and garage look great. Have fun with the build.

[erlihemi]

Love the garage! Cars nice too!! Assuming the big screen is there someplace?

[JOP33]

Lift gets installed next Thursday...I think this will be a good investment!

[wrp]

Fabulous

[WIS89]

Hello-

Welcome to the forum, and building an awesome car! I really like the design concept you put together, and am jealous of your garage; even more after you get the lift installed!

At least being a Cowboys fan, you have experienced plenty of ups and downs, so you will be used to the see saw that is building your own car. I'm more of a Staubach fan than a Cowboys fan, but I understand the passion!

I look forward to watching as you go along. Best of luck!

Regards,

Steve

[JOP33]

Hello-

Welcome to the forum, and building an awesome car! I really like the design concept you put together, and am jealous of your garage; even more after you get the lift installed!

At least being a Cowboys fan, you have experienced plenty of ups and downs, so you will be used to the see saw that is building your own car. I'm more of a Staubach fan than a Cowboys fan, but I understand the passion!

I look forward to watching as you go along. Best of luck!

Regards,

Steve
Hit the nail on the head there, Steve!

[JOP33]

Finding myself questioning every choice on my order. I'm assuming this is pretty normal. I've spent the last few days blitzing back through some previous threads looking for details about specific items and re-reading my notes. I'm waffling all over the place! Probably going call to FFR today and change a couple items...then I've promised myself I'm committed (or will need to be committed)!

[NAZ]

The longer your build takes the more opportunity for scope growth or morphing the original concept into something different. When you're finished if you don't have a stack of unused parts that were replaced by other parts you're not having as much fun as you could have. None of my projects are ever done until they are sold to a new owner. They always seem to be in a perpetual state of modification like some sort of science project. My cars, my tractors, my trailers -- everything mechanical. The only vehicles I own that are OEM stock are my wife's as I learned a long time ago to leave her stuff alone.

[JOP33]

I learned a long time ago to leave her stuff alone.

That is sage advice my friend!

[JOP33]

Lift installed today!63866

[JOP33]

Spent the weekend in Detroit with a bunch of great guys at the 33' Build School! I suggest anyone on the fence, thinking about a build or who just wants to get some great information on the FFR vehicles invest in this class. Thanks Charles & Scott for showing us the ends and the outs of the 33' and shout out to a great group of guys!

64779

[JOP33]

Brakes arrived today! So is this the official "start" or "stop" of the build?

64929

[JOP33]

Had Dan from FFR send me pics of my chassis in the weld jig as well...64944

[myjones]

Even though that jig is robust there is still a certain amount of heat draw that happens after it comes out of the jig. A lot of bars are tacked there
then fully welded after it comes out and goes on the rotisserie. The other quirk is that the rear clip< piece behind the pass compartment is 1/4" off center. <That
is not heat draw. The upper half of my firewall tubing was laying back 1/4" on 1 corner and 1/8" on the other. The point is you should check things with a straight
edge and establish a centerline while it's a bare chassis and easy to do or fix anything that's far enough off to put up a fight later.

Fun to see it become real though isn't it.
DB
426 Hemi33

[WIS89]

It's getting real now, isn't it. Cool that Dan sent the picture.

I was so excited waiting for the arrival, it's hard to explain. Worse than a kid waiting for Christmas!

Regards,

Steve

[JOP33]

It's getting real now, isn't it. Cool that Dan sent the picture.

I was so excited waiting for the arrival, it's hard to explain. Worse than a kid waiting for Christmas!

Regards,

Steve

Definitely Steve...Kit completion should have been Friday. I'm just waiting to hear from Stewart Transport now. In the meantime I was able to kill some time out at the big Goodguys Show at Texas Motor Speedway. There were some beautiful cars out there and a lot of them!

[JOP33]

Rearend made it's way into the shop today...My wife will be able to use this crate as my casket if I don't ever finish this build!

6537565376

[wrp]

Very cool build

[WIS89]

[QUOTE=JOP33;272501]...My wife will be able to use this crate as my casket if I don't ever finish this build!

Alright, I took a screen shot of this post, just in case it ends up being needed as evidence in the murder trial!! HA

Nice progress, and your wife has a great sense of humor; or a great sense of foreshadowing!! Time will tell... HAHA

Regards,

Steve

[JOP33]

Just received a call from Jerry, driver for Stewart. My 33' is in route and due here end of next week!

[RoadRacer]

Congratulations it's getting close! Then get him to hurry back to pick mine up next week!

[JOP33]

Congratulations it's getting close! Then get him to hurry back to pick mine up next week!

Said Texas will be his last leg and has (4) vehicles coming here.

[David Hodgkins]

Exciting time for sure!! GREAT workspace. You will love the lift! Congrats!

:)

[JOP33]

Doing a little last minute prep to the shop before 33' shows up next week. After discussing with several builders and the experience at build school, I have decided to start the build on jack stands and then move to the lift after I get it rolling. Any opinions on a "good" working height for the jack stands?

[JOP33]

Received my parts in from Kootenai Valley Customs this week...great parts Tim! I'm sure I will appreciate them more when I have a vehicle to put them on! This waiting is no fun.

[JOP33]

Star Mobile 1 arrived yesterday via Stewart Transport! Like Santa Claus, Jerry from ST sneaked into the neighborhood and offloaded SM1 to its final resting place! Had to have a few Cowboy fans help with unload and to rid off any Patriot Mojo that might have piggy-backed down during the trip! All is good now. Thanks again to all that have inspired and offered your feedback just to get me to this point. Now the real fun begins...inventory! Will post pics soon.

[RoadRacer]

Had to have a few Cowboy fans help with unload and to rid off any Patriot Mojo that might have piggy-backed down during the trip!

Haha, clever! :)

Good Luck - Looking forward to following along

[JOP33]

Just starting inventory. After all I had heard about the job that FFR does in trying to simplify the inventory process for you, I was a little shocked to see parts that were in bags with no part numbers (at least none that match the inventory sheets), or you just had to try to figure out by the description alone...better than the alternative of no help I guess and still fun!

Stewart arrival...65806

Wow...lots of boxes!65807

And then there is this...65809

this...65810

this...65811

and these...65812

and last but not least, this...65808

[donshapansky]

Congrats Jamie, now the fun begins!

[erlihemi]

I was a little shocked to see parts that were in bags with no part numbers (at least none that match the inventory sheets),

I just marked those with a sharpie as I translated the inventory to manual decoder. Yes it would be nice if the inventory and the bags matched the manual a little better, but once you get going the paint by numbers isn't too bad.

[1932]

After some time parts are parts! Have Fun.

[JOP33]

So 12 hours and 31 boxes later...inventory is complete. All parts accounted for with the exception of just a handful of non-critical items and a couple back-ordered items. I say non-critical...of all things to short me, it seems FFR left the rivet spacing tool out, seriously! The only damaged part was that beautifully, turbulent, corrugated radiator hose...crushed! Will hit FFR up on Monday for updates on back-orders and make them aware of missing/damaged items. All in all, the process was relatively painless and it really is a good exercise to physically put your hands on most of the items to help become familiar with them...at least IMO. I like the fact that FFR sends about 50 promotional brochures for you to hand out at car shows! Hey, ABC, Always Be Closing, right! I removed all the body panels with the exception of the main body. Tonight I am going to re-introduce myself to the manual, at least the one that was sent with the kit. I had purchased the pdf back in October and received an actual manual at build school last month, but my hopes are the one sent with the kit will be the most up to date. I think my plan is going to be to move forward with marking the panels, remove and then begin the front suspension. I have waffled back and forth on whether I should build the entire car, tear down then powder and paint, but I am going to mock-up through suspension & brakes, then send the chassis and components out for powder. I should be able to tell relatively quickly if that ends up being a good plan...

[JOP33]

Spent a little more time today than I thought I would have to cleaning up welds around the firewall panels so they would fit. I was able to mark and remove all aluminum panels though. Hopefully onto front suspension and brakes this week.

6587765878

[RoadRacer]

Kinda scary hearing you had to clean welds to make panels fit nicely.. I ordered my chassis powder coated ;)

[JOP33]

Kinda scary hearing you had to clean welds to make panels fit nicely.. I ordered my chassis powder coated ;)

I had originally done the same, but after hearing others talk about having to clean up some areas , I decided against it. I think the welds on the large outside tobes got a little wild on them.

[erlihemi]

You can always just throw a little gloss black rustoleum on the grind spots. Or trim the aluminum. Enjoy :)

[JOP33]

You can always just throw a little gloss black rustoleum on the grind spots. Or trim the aluminum. Enjoy :)

I was able to trim the aluminum some, but I found that there were welds behind the top firewall panel that were not allowing it to it to sit flush against the chassis. I will mock up the suspension and then send the chassis out for PC, so there shouldn't be any issues.

[JOP33]

Started the front suspension this evening beginning with the lower control arms. Will try to get uppers together tomorrow. Don't hold back guys if you see something out of place. Haven't put zerks in as this is mainly for mock up at this point before I powder coat.

Bushings...65968

LCA's...6596965970

[myjones]

Don't hold back guys if you see something out of place.
Bushings...65968
LCA's...6596965970
Next step;
Look at the welds on the chassis where the rear mounting tabs are for the (upper) control arms. On the inside of the shorter tab in
each pair where the barrel mounts you will likely see that the weld interferes with the lip on the Urethane insert.
You will probably have to carve off some of the thickness of that flange for about a 1/4 turn so the arm can swing freely through
it's full range of travel. Some builders have ground off part of that weld but that approach scares me.
DB

[JOP33]

Next step;
Look at the welds on the chassis where the rear mounting tabs are for the (upper) control arms. On the inside of the shorter tab in
each pair where the barrel mounts you will likely see that the weld interferes with the lip on the Urethane insert.
You will probably have to carve off some of the thickness of that flange for about a 1/4 turn so the arm can swing freely through
it's full range of travel. Some builders have ground off part of that weld but that approach scares me.
DB

Good call on this, definitely found this to be true. Also had issues with welds protruding up around the ball joint keeping the dust cover from fitting properly.

[JOP33]

Finished UCA's last night. Came across several weld interference issues. The one that stands out though is an issue with weld interference on the front upper control arm mounting tabs with regards to the bolt head/nut as well? What is the preferred fix...shrinking the diameter of the head by grinding? As it is tightened, it doesn't want to sit flush on the mount. Might be a little difficult to get at to grind the weld, plus I don't know that that would be the best fix.

LCA's and UCA's on...66032

Area of interference...66033

Shocks and Spindles next...66034

[wrp]

Looking Good

[JOP33]

Looking Good

Thanks. It's been slow going but extremely therapeutic so far!

[erlihemi]

Finished UCA's last night. Came across several weld interference issues. The one that stands out though is an issue with weld interference on the front upper control arm mounting tabs with regards to the bolt head/nut as well? What is the preferred fix...shrinking the diameter of the head by grinding? As it is tightened, it doesn't want to sit flush on the mount. Might be a little difficult to get at to grind the weld, plus I don't know that that would be the best fix.

LCA's and UCA's on...66032

Area of interference...66033

Shocks and Spindles next...66034

I had to compare your area of interference to my upper arms. I did grind the welds for the nut flange to clear, but yours appears to hit the other end of the nut. If that's the situation your tabs are off position. Make sure your arm has full travel without hitting the tubing above the bushing. Mine has 1/4" clear on the rounded end of the nut.

[JOP33]

I had to compare your area of interference to my upper arms. I did grind the welds for the nut flange to clear, but yours appears to hit the other end of the nut. If that's the situation your tabs are off position. Make sure your arm has full travel without hitting the tubing above the bushing. Mine has 1/4" clear on the rounded end of the nut.
Thanks for input...I will doublecheck.

[JOP33]

Built up Shocks and got them installed. There's got to be a trick to getting the large spacers in on the lower shock mounts...I spent an hour just on the bottom mounts.

Front Shocks...66109

[Niagara Dave]

You may want to flip the shocks. At first that is how I did it but when it was time to set the car to its final height I had a problem trying to adjust the shocks. Once the rad and the wiring is done there is not much room.

It looks great! Keep it up.




Built up Shocks and got them installed. There's got to be a trick to getting the large spacers in on the lower shock mounts...I spent an hour just on the bottom mounts.

Front Shocks...66109

[JOP33]

You may want to flip the shocks. At first that is how I did it but when it was time to set the car to its final height I had a problem trying to adjust the shocks. Once the rad and the wiring is done there is not much room.

It looks great! Keep it up.

Thanks Dave...That was actually my plan, but I have the dual rate Koni's and manual states that they must be installed body down. I am not exactly sure what the implications are of flipping those shocks, but I am sure someone on the forum may have that knowledge to comment as I do agree it will be much easier later on.

[JOP33]

Spindles went on tonight. Relatively straight forward install. I did have some issues with the castle nut on the upper driver side ball joint as it passed the cotter pin relief. I chased the threads and was finally able to get it hand tightened for now. I am hopeful about moving at a little quicker pace this weekend, but so far I have been getting done each night what I set out to do.

Spindles on...66136

66137

[bakerboerne]

The blue cups go on top the black ones go on the bottom

[bakerboerne]

Sorry I didn't look at all pictures looks like both sets of yours are blue .

[JOP33]

Sorry I didn't look at all pictures looks like both sets of yours are blue .

There might be some validity to what your saying Kevin. I actually have a second set of dust boots (slightly smaller & black), but they didn't seem to fit quite as well as the blue. The tops do seem to be "flattened" a little more than expected, but they are sagging and have no grease in them at this point...I will look into this a little more. The bottom boots, I believe, are clipped in. Thanks.

[JOP33]

Was able to get the Front Brakes installed this morning. One week into the build and here are a few lessons learned...

Have been waiting to pull the trigger on the wheels/tires, but needed some lug nuts to hold the rotor hats on during caliper installation...so I had to run out early this morning and pick up some cheap lugs just for that purpose, poor planning on my part.

The Wilwood Brakes are masterpieces...so of course during build up I took the care to place some brown paper down on my workbench so as not to scratch these beauties (the hats) during the process. Always check for little shards of steel or weld bb's when you do this. After almost breaking my arm off patting myself on the back when I had joined the brake hat to the rotor, much to my horror I turned it over and there were scratches everywhere on the face (I know, Rookie mistake)! Needless to say, I dusted off the workbench, placed a shop rag underneath the next one and made dang sure I didn't scratch it! Guess I will be sanding those and just shooting some rattle can black over them eventually...live & learn.

Front Brakes installed sporting the scratched on black look...66177





Man one of these front brakes looks really nice...66180




Second one went together without a scratch...66179

[JOP33]

With the help of my wife, we got the rearend installed this morning...diff, UCA's, LCA's and shocks. 66217

Lower Control Arms... 66218

Shocks and Springs... 66219

Want to throw out a couple of questions. I have come across (several times now) what I am calling "hanging instructions" in the manual. For example, with regards to the assembly of the rear shocks at the lower mount...FFR manual states on the passenger side, place the large spacer in front of the shock and then the 1/8" spacer behind and then they never mention the driver side. So do you assume it gets installed the same way or opposite? I went with the same way as after trying the other way there would be interference with the shock and the frame. Would also like to know if there is anyone out there that has gone with the upgraded koni's and if they actually can be installed body up? No mission critical items as I will follow up later this week with FFR, but you'd think after 1000 of these the manuals would be pretty iron'd out

Will try for the rear brake install later this evening.

[JOP33]

During this process I will try to keep my "stupid" questions to a minimum, so bear with me...

Question 1: With regards to instructions dealing with vehicles, wouldn't "driver side" or "passenger side" be a more clarified description than "left side" or "right side" (guess this could get confusing outside the USA)?
Question 1A: When Wilwood says "left side shown", is that as you are looking at the vehicle or as you are sitting in the vehicle?
Question 2: I have seen several orientations of the Wilwood Rear Brake set-ups on the 33'...which is correct and why (to be clearer, the clocking of the caliper around the rear axle)? The instructions really don't specify, but yet I have seen them in different locations throughout the forum.

[erlihemi]

During this process I will try to keep my "stupid" questions to a minimum, so bear with me...

Question 1: With regards to instructions dealing with vehicles, wouldn't "driver side" or "passenger side" be a more clarified description than "left side" or "right side" (guess this could get confusing outside the USA)?
Question 1A: When Wilwood says "left side shown", is that as you are looking at the vehicle or as you are sitting in the vehicle?
Question 2: I have seen several orientations of the Wilwood Rear Brake set-ups on the 33'...which is correct and why (to be clearer, the clocking of the caliper around the rear axle)? The instructions really don't specify, but yet I have seen them in different locations throughout the forum.

I'm still waiting for the "stupid question" so I can possibly keep up.
Question 1) I prefer port and starboard as that works with British cars also.
Question 1A) Automotive Industry standard is as sitting in the vehicle, but I can't get any work done there...
Question 1B) I can't remember if clockwise is from the front of the motor or if its counterclockwise for a rear engine car?
Question 2) Most brake pads will work in either direction and the "clocking" is either owner preference or owner oversight. Hoses, emergency brakes, and coil over clearance do matter and that is dependent on the chassis modification. Stick with the FFR manual in most cases. It does have it somewhere in there. Which brings us back to the left and right question, because some of the calipers are labeled the opposite way and then we can't tell the difference between right and wrong.

Enjoy:)

[myjones]

I'll add 2 things to the mix on the 33's rear brakes
The calipers on a 33 are sometimes moved because it makes a better path for the emergency brake cable.
On mine the rear mounted fuel tank also comes into that cable path so mine are in front of the axle and swapped side to side.
The marking on the caliper is wrong at times as well on the 33 because we are off labeling it's use onto a different set-up. <see above
L caliper might work on the right side in front of instead of behind the axle etc. Most often you can just look at the bleeder
screw and put it in the up position to tell which side of the car that caliper works best on. There have been a few builds where
they had to mount the bleeder downward so they bled it pointed up then rolled it back down and bolted it in place.
HTH
Dale

[JOP33]

Thanks guys for chiming in. I always appreciate (and can use) the feedback. So I finally did get the brakes fit-up and Dan from FFR confirmed that the Koni upgrades do have to be installed body down and that the clocking on the rear calipers mainly has to do with ease of plumbing lines and e-brake.

66332

[JOP33]

I was able to get the Pedal Box and Master Cylinders installed over the last two days. I know that my progress is probably a typical days work for many of you, but I have been just trying to get a little accomplished each night. I noticed tonight that the flange connection for the driveshaft seems to be just slightly off centered (toward the passenger side). I am running the four-link with the FFR stock rear control arms, so I am assuming that there is no good way to adjust...are there some critical measurements that I should be taking at this point? Anyway, on to the firewall and steering for later this week.

Pedal Box...66594

Master Cylinders...66595

[WIS89]

I wanted to add a suggestion as to what to do after you grind off the weld splatter, or extra welding material. POR-15 does a very nice job, and blends very well with the black powdercoating. I have used it in multiple areas on my build, and you cannot tell where the touch up was done.

I looked through your thread, and didn't see this recommendation, so I wanted to add it in. If it was already suggested, I apologize.

Regards,

Steve

[JOP33]

I wanted to add a suggestion as to what to do after you grind off the weld splatter, or extra welding material. POR-15 does a very nice job, and blends very well with the black powdercoating. I have used it in multiple areas on my build, and you cannot tell where the touch up was done.

I looked through your thread, and didn't see this recommendation, so I wanted to add it in. If it was already suggested, I apologize.

Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve, good suggestion. Luckily, I am only mocking up at this point and will tear down in a few weeks for chassis powder coating. I must say so far that I am glad I held off on the powder coating. Not that things have been too bad, but there are lots of laser tabs that were left on brackets welded onto the chassis that need to be cleaned up and really only a few places that I have had to grind, but they have all been in visible areas. Honestly, I think it has been a good exercise just assembling without the hesitation of having to worrying with paint. As I assemble and find areas that I think will be a little more challenging with paint I note those so I will be a little more cautious when I assemble the second time.

[JOP33]

Spent this last weekend trying to bust through a few things. I was able to get the firewall mounted. I decided to go with 10-32 stainless button heads (64 to be exact). Everything is mounted temporarily for now, as in a few weeks I will be tearing it down for powder. I used a drill/tap combo and it made pretty quick work of it. I haven't decided if I am going to go back with chrome heads yet...I haven't found a good enough price on them as of yet. I was going to go ahead and mount the brake reservoirs as well, but I want to go with a two reservoir set-up (this came at the build-school recommendation), so I am going to order a second reservoir from FFR. I then moved onto the steering column & steering wheel. Then the steering rack & shafts. I personally think the plastic zip ties holding the boots on really set that piece off! My wife keeps asking me why so many things (boots, shock springs) are held together with zip ties...I haven't really came up with a good reply as of yet:confused:. I also had some issues with the steering shaft...apparently there is suppose to be a short set screw that you use on the u-joint near the firewall, I didn't get that, so I just purchased at the local hardware store (I'll check with FFR and see if they'll compensate me for that...jk). That double d rod coming through the firewall also ended up being about 1/2" long, so I ended up trimming it to fit. After getting the steering shaft in, I truly believe that most of the weight of this car is in the u-joints used to connect the rods! After that I jumped to the floor pans and after a lot of back and forth discussion with myself, I decided to go ahead and tap for the 10-32's there is as well. I know that in the end this is overkill and these will all be covered with sound deadner, carpet, etc., but after doing the firewall I had a pretty good system down, so I took the plunge. I used the rest of my button heads where I could and then just finished with rounded 10-32's. When I powder in a few weeks, I will remove the floors and leave some sacrificial screws in to protect the threads from blast media and paint. I hope to do some more layout on the aluminum panels later this week and then I think I am going to try to get going on the brake lines. I might mention that on the floor panels, I cut the front kick panel off and made it a separate piece. This actually came from build-school as well. It makes it much easier to get the floor panels in, but I guess some guys like to install the panel on the outside to give themselves a little more foot space. I am hoping I can seal it off and mount the control module for the steering assist in the little triangular area...we'll see. I will definitely have to extend all the wires though as they don't give you much.

Firewall...66843

Steering Rack...66844

Steering Column...66845

Steering Shaft...66846

Floor Panels...66847

Kickpanel Cutaway...66848

Starting to look like a car...66849

66850

[TDSapp]

OK, so honestly tell me, once you got the steering wheel and the seat set in there, did you set in it and make car sounds?


Tim

[RoadRacer]

Started the front suspension this evening beginning with the lower control arms.

Bushings...65968


Just revisiting your earlier posts and noticed your bushings are split.. did they come like that? Mine are solid urethane, no lines like that, and only got delivered a few weeks after yours...

[bakerboerne]

Hey Jamie
There is a place here in Houston that I got my SS 10-32 button allen head screws... 100 for $8. Coastal Fastener Company. Let me know if you want me to pick you up a couple hundred.

Also did you try to connect the emergency brake cable on the rear brakes ? My cable ends don't look like they are going to fit into the holes in the Wilwood brakes.

Brian

[erlihemi]

Just revisiting your earlier posts and noticed your bushings are split.. did they come like that? Mine are solid urethane, no lines like that, and only got delivered a few weeks after yours...

I believe those are just shallow grease channels. Mine had them on some bushings also.

I use Albany County fasteners for a lot of the custom button heads and went with 10-24 threads on anything that gets assembled/disassembled more than once. I couldn't find a pilot for the FFR supplied tool and bought a Pop Rivet brand kit that I like a lot better than the other tool supplied.

Have to be careful with stainless galling and fine thread aluminum inserts seem to cross thread easier, just my preference.

[JOP33]

Just revisiting your earlier posts and noticed your bushings are split.. did they come like that? Mine are solid urethane, no lines like that, and only got delivered a few weeks after yours...

RR, With regards to the grease lines, that came as a suggestion from the instructors at the build school...it allows the grease to continue to flow out. You can just continue the runs from the inside with a hacksaw and just a couple of passes.

[JOP33]

OK, so honestly tell me, once you got the steering wheel and the seat set in there, did you set in it and make car sounds?


Tim

Tim, I did sit in the vehicle, but no car sounds....but I did slam on the brakes a couple of times!

[JOP33]

So last weekend was a complete failure with regards to running the brake lines. I had flare tooling issues (after issues), wasn't impressed with FFR options for running and went off on my own (not a good idea either) and just didn't not like working with the rhino lines that FFR provided...all of that being said, I chock most of the issues up to my experience routing and flaring brake line (uh, none to this point). Here are just a couple of things from a novice's perspective I wanted to mention (take it for what it's worth, again novice)...

1. IMHO, go ahead and purchase a coil of NiCopp line, a straightener and a "decent" flaring tool. The Rhino Lines supplied probably work great if you can stay in the realm of exactly where they are suppose to run, the NiCopp, cuts, bends & flares soooooo much easier.

2. Several of the less expensive flaring tools tell you to use the die adapter to set the height of the tube before forming...what I found is when I flushed the tube to that height, the pin got stuck in the tube and had to be pry'd out (in most cases damaging the flare). I was more successful with going just slightly shy of the full height.

3. Ultimately, I ended up bending small pieces for transitions in difficult to reach areas and then using unions on the straight pieces to attach.

4. I strayed from the suggested mounting locations a couple of times, only to later slap my hand on my head when I realized the reason FFR just didn't tell you to hang it in this "wide open" space (I forgot that the exhaust will also need to run through the rearend:mad:).

5. Finally, if you would like to make the perfect bent piece with perfect, beautiful, professional flares, 100% of the time (I guarantee), just don't put the fittings on before you flare the tube! Just kidding guys, I don't know how many times, I patted myself on the back after a flare just to look down and see that I had forgotten the fitting!

Anyway, here are the results of two weekends and this was just to dry fit...I will remove and re-install after powder, that's when the leaks will appear :(

67546

67547

67548

67549

67550

67551

[erlihemi]

JOP33,

In Pic #4 Looks like you routed your lines up and over like the original design. This is OK, but it will be susceptible to air bubbles. With the compact masters it is an advantage to run the lines low for bleeding the air out. Before you put the body on for the last time, get your brakes thoroughly bled out and leak checked. Maybe use a vacuum bleeder. Don't cycle your pedals much until you get some fluid in those cylinders. I think some of the builds are ruining the seals before they get the pedals set up and adjusted.
Looks like you conquered the flaring adventure. Congrats!

[DaveS53]

Eastwood's #25304 flaring tool is well worth the money.

[Midwest 33 Build]

Excellent build thread JOP33 !

[JOP33]

Excellent build thread JOP33 !

Thanks MW...going to try to spend a little time today updating from the last month.

[DaveS53]

Are the upper ball joints welded in place? If so, that should make powder coating interesting. The joints should have some grease in them already. I've got screw-in ball joints on my car and had no problem with them unscrewing. I bought the special ball joint socket, so I could properly torque them to 100 ft.-lbs.

[JOP33]

So after completing the the fuel lines, I went ahead and drilled as many holes as I could for any of the aluminum that will be installed later. I know that the screws are overkill, but I did it anyway anywhere that the aluminum crossed a tube. Will be covered with heat/sound protection and carpet at some point...
68223682246822568226

At this point I elected to go ahead and start the tear down for powder. I am certain that there are things I probably should have gone ahead and fit up, but I decided the rest I would do post powder...
6822768228

I labeled components I wanted to powder (some changed prior to going to the coaters)....
68229

Tearing it down...
682306823168232

[JOP33]

Where I work graciously offered to coat the chassis and components at a discounted price! They did an awesome job...

At the Coaters...68233

Just Hanging Out...68234

Powder Coating...68235

Into the Oven...68236

Powder Complet...68237

And Finally Back Home!68238

[JOP33]

I was debating leaving the differential black but I fought it as long as I could. I didn't want to strip a brand new rear end down just to powder so I decided to paint it myself. When I bought the powder I also had the supplier give me (2) cans of touch-up aerosol as well as a gallon of single stage paint, so I thought it should match pretty well. The next thing I needed was a place to spray it...so I constructed a redneck paint booth out of PVC and plastic drop cloth. I used a fan and AC vent to suck out what overspray I could. You can see by the pics, I still had issues with it getting on the floor. Luckily it is coming up with thinner and elbow grease. I also went ahead and painted the Ford Racing diff cover I plan on switching out. The next step will be to start putting it back together...for good this time (hopefully).
Moser Rear End...
68239
Redneck Paint Booth...
6824068241
Finished Product...6824268243

Probably won't be painting the car myself!

[JOP33]

Are the upper ball joints welded in place? If so, that should make powder coating interesting. The joints should have some grease in them already. I've got screw-in ball joints on my car and had no problem with them unscrewing. I bought the special ball joint socket, so I could properly torque them to 100 ft.-lbs.

Thought there would be an issue too, but at the request of the coaters let all soak in a bucket of thinner for two days...will grease the heck out of them at install.

[myjones]

There has been a lot of prior comments about the trunk latch being a PITA to get adjusted properly both from the arc it swings through
and from the body flexing enough to hamper the snap action of the latch. Some builders have added a stiffener bar across the opening
and several have said to be sure and leave the trunk floor out until the trunk latch is working properly. Note that on a piece of tape and
stick it on the trunk floor panel when it comes back from the powder coaters and save yourself a 1/2 days work and frustration.
HTH
Dale

[mburger]

JOP33, nice shop and great build thread!

[JOP33]

I started putting the front end back together this weekend after powder. Definitely a much slow process being coated and throughout the mock-up I also had not added any grease or torqued anything. The main issue I have ran into so far is coming up with a good combination that allows me to torque the Spindle Castle Nuts. Some have made the suggestion of using a Crows Foot wrench, another option would be to grind a socket down. I believe the nuts are 22 & 24mm, so finding the right size in a 1/2 drive that still allows clearance has been a challenge and IMHO I don't know that once I find something that works that I will be able to get the required torque on the nuts with the vehicle on jackstands. The next challenge will be similar as at this point I can only use an adjustable wrench for tightening the "large" spindle nut (I know it's larger than 1-1/4 or 30mm) and it calls for 235ft/lbs of torqe. Below are some of the pics of my progress so far...

Front Control Arms...68542

Not much room working around the springs and shocks, so I opted to put this area of the brake lines in before shocks...6854368544

Shocks and Springs in...685456854668547

Spindles next and those pesky nuts...6854868549

Coming together...6855068551

[RoadRacer]

I had to borrow an Autozone torque wrench (and buy a 1 3/8 socket) to tighten the hub up, but as others have said, the torque for the castle nuts is a little misleading - you have to get them good and tight, but then align the holes too.. so for me I didn't use the torque wrench there.

Looking good with your custom color! I don't regret getting the FFR black powder (it was super cheap!) but I'd have preferred to have a white chassis. Perhaps on the 10,000 mile refresh ;)

[JOP33]

I also went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 302/350hp EFI and AOD Transmission package from Engine Factory. It'll be blue'd out, so a combination of the pics below...6855268553

And then the AOD transmission...68554

Engine Details...
PRECISION MACHINED 302 ROLLER BLOCK
NODULAR CAST IRON CRANKSHAFT
SHOT PEENED & STRESS RELIEVED CONNECTING RODS WITH ARP RETAINING BOLTS
Hypereutectic Federal Mogul 9.5 TO 1 COMPRESSION W/ Duralube Coating
SPEED PRO Chrome Moly PISTON RINGS
3 PIECE STEEL ROLLER STYLE TIMING CHAIN
Steel Roller HYD CAMSHAFT DELIVERS MID-RANGE HORSE POWER AND Great LOW END TORQUE
NEW MELLING OIL PUMP AND SCREEN
EDELBROCK ALUMINUM HEADS 60cc COMBUSTION CHAMBER with Bronze Guides
2.02 STAINLESS STEEL SWIRL POLISHED INTAKE VALVES
1.60 STAINLESS STEEL SWIRL POLISHED EXHAUST VALVES
COMP CAMS XTREME DUTY ROLLER ROCKERS
HARD SEATS FOR UNLEADED OR REGULAR FUEL
HEAVY DUTY 1.45 DIAMETER VALVE SPRINGS, 7 DEGREE LOCKS
NEW HEAVY DUTY CHROME MOLY PUSH RODS
Rear SUMP 6 QUART OIL PAN (to accommodate electric power assist)
TIMING CHAIN COVER WITH SCALE
POLISHED BALL MILLED ALUMINUM VALVE COVERS
164 TOOTH STANDARD FLEXPLATE FOR AOD TRANSMISSION
NEW EDELBROCK PERFORMER RPM DUAL PLANE INTAKE MANIFOLD
SNIPER TBI EFI Fuel Injection. Includes Build in ECU, Wiring Harness, Sensor
ELECT. BILLET IGNITION DISTRIBUTOR W/ 45,000 VOLT COIL
ALUMINUM THERMOSTAT HOUSING AND THERMOSTAT
ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP
HIGH FLOW ALUMINUM Reverse Rotation WATER PUMP
DIP TUBE AND DIPSTICK
14 INCH CHROME AIR CLEANER W/ WASHABLE ELEMENT (Blue)
EFI FUEL LINES AND GAS FILTER
Chrome 100 AMP ALTERNATOR- ONE WIRE HOOK UP, SANDON POLISHED AC Compressor
Complete MARCH Underdrive POLISHED PULLEY SET
Polished Chrome Alternator Bracket
NEW SERPENTINE BELT INSTALLED AND TENSION ADJUSTED
Complete AOD Automatic Transmission Package with 3200-3500 Stall Speed
Includes Matching Torque Converter, (3200-3500 Stall Speed) Trans. Cooler, TV Cable and Fluid

[JOP33]

I had to borrow an Autozone torque wrench (and buy a 1 3/8 socket) to tighten the hub up, but as others have said, the torque for the castle nuts is a little misleading - you have to get them good and tight, but then align the holes too.. so for me I didn't use the torque wrench there.

Looking good with your custom color! I don't regret getting the FFR black powder (it was super cheap!) but I'd have preferred to have a white chassis. Perhaps on the 10,000 mile refresh ;)

Yes...That's probably the best option for that larger nut (and thanks, now I know the size).

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. I am happy so far with how things are progressing and looking. I have had analysis paralysis for the last month with regards to wheels and tires, but luckily my Brother-in-Law has a set of wheels he is not using that he's going to loan me so I can get a visual before committing.

Update: I believe the socket required is a 36mm.

[kraftee]

Looking good with your custom color! I don't regret getting the FFR black powder (it was super cheap!) but I'd have preferred to have a white chassis. Perhaps on the 10,000 mile refresh

RoadRacer, a white tube chassis looks fabulous....until the first time you drive it. We had Fabcar build us a tube frame for our IMSA GTU 911 in about '90. Painted it white. HUGE mistake. No matter how much you try to keep it clean - well, it's just impossible. Then, there's NO way to get a rag in between the cables and wires you have clamped or wrapped to it. Trust me, a dark color is the way to go on a tube car you're going to drive! (Sorry JOP, didn't mean to hijack your build thread.)

[RoadRacer]

No matter how much you try to keep it clean - well, it's just impossible.

I'm not a car polisher, but good point. Having open wheels and no hood sides will be fun from the dirt-in-your-teeth perspective ;)

[JOP33]

Double checked to make sure I could install/remove the lower firewall without issue if went forward with running the brake lines. Seemed to be ok so I installed the pedal box...68846

Then went ahead with the brake lines...6884768848

I also went ahead and installed the hubs, torqued the spindle nuts and capped them...68849

[JOP33]

I am ordering some Lizard Skin Heatshield and Sound Barrier to spray on the firewall, so I am trying to hold off on it until next weekend. My Brother-in-Law has graciously offered up a set of rollers until I can overcome my inability to make a decision about wheels and tires:confused:. So my Dad and I are headed to Sulphur Springs tomorrow morning to pick them up. 18's & 20's...I'll try to swing by a local tire shop on the way home and see if they have any "maypops" for cheap to put on the 20's. Will try to get the remainder of the brake lines ran this weekend along with installing the actual brakes.

[myjones]

I installed the pedal box...68846

In that picture you see the balance bar clearly. If you use a bias knob you can see how much more room there is to attach it on
the outboard end of the threaded shaft. The lack of the angled brace on that side eliminates the rubbing and space issues you have
when you put it on the inboard side like the instructions say to do. The cable makes a nice easy loop and ends up anywhere you want.
HTH
DB

[DaveS53]

Don't expect miracles from Lizard Skin. I used both the sound and heat barriers on the entire underside of my fiberglass bodied car, plus inside the doors, behind the doors and the firewall. Aluminum conducts a lot more heat than fiberglass, so I recommend additional insulation in addition to the Lizard Skin. Closed cell neoprene foam works fairly well. On the inside floor of my car, I put 2 layers of B-quiet sound control, then glued down one layer of 1/4" neoprene foam. When it came time to install carpet, I cut another layer of 1/4" foam and just laid it on to of the first layer. The I cut carpet to fit and glued that foam to the carpet. That allows the foam backed carpet to be removed, is needed.

I have a fair amount of empty space between the body and some interior aluminum "upholstery" panels, so I filled all the spaces with fiberglass insulation. Some of my aluminum panels also received layers of neoprene foam up to 3/4" thick to help reduce noise and reject outside heat.

My car also has a fully insulated headliner made from 3/4" structural core foam, covered with fiberglass and painted flat black. I need every bit of this insulation to help the air conditioning system work adequately.

[JOP33]

Don't expect miracles from Lizard Skin. I used both the sound and heat barriers on the entire underside of my fiberglass bodied car, plus inside the doors, behind the doors and the firewall. Aluminum conducts a lot more heat than fiberglass, so I recommend additional insulation in addition to the Lizard Skin. Closed cell neoprene foam works fairly well. On the inside floor of my car, I put 2 layers of B-quiet sound control, then glued down one layer of 1/4" neoprene foam. When it came time to install carpet, I cut another layer of 1/4" foam and just laid it on to of the first layer. The I cut carpet to fit and glued that foam to the carpet. That allows the foam backed carpet to be removed, is needed.

I have a fair amount of empty space between the body and some interior aluminum "upholstery" panels, so I filled all the spaces with fiberglass insulation. Some of my aluminum panels also received layers of neoprene foam up to 3/4" thick to help reduce noise and reject outside heat.

My car also has a fully insulated headliner made from 3/4" structural core foam, covered with fiberglass and painted flat black. I need every bit of this insulation to help the air conditioning system work adequately.

I just wanted something in addition to the pre-cuts from factory five that I will apply before carpet install. I will actually spray this on the cockpit side of the firewall and then attach to chassis, then apply the FFR sound/heat shield.

...As always, I try to go in with low expectations and always come out thoroughly impressed.

Thanks

[myjones]

I will actually spray this on the cockpit side of the firewall and then attach to chassis, Thanks

The LS will be lumpy and not allow the firewall to nest properly against the chassis tubes if you do it that way.
On my 33
I traced the chassis tubes on the cockpit side of the firewall, then covered all those stripes with strapping tape.
Leave an inch extra at each end of the tape and fold that over on itself to make a pull tab. Now apply the lizard
skin and then pull the tape off while it's all still wet. This leaves the mating area clean and flat. I then sprayed that
part with the aerosol version of liquid electrical tape that I got at Lowes in the electrical aisle. This puts a thin/flat
layer of rubber where the firewall mates to the chassis. It lets you remove it later if needed by just drilling out the
rivets since it's not bonded like silicone would be. It still isolates a little bit for sound and the did-similar metals too.

I put my firewall on with 1/4 28 button heads both for the look and for the ease of removing it to drill for heater/AC,
harness holes etc. while mocking up and assembling the car. I also bought the internal firewall from Mike and used 1"
of foam between the 2 panels since the chassis tubes create that space anyway. Then I made footwell false panels and
used the same insulation there and Boom mat on the cockpit side.
Dale

[JOP33]

The LS will be lumpy and not allow the firewall to nest properly against the chassis tubes if you do it that way.
On my 33
I traced the chassis tubes on the cockpit side of the firewall, then covered all those stripes with strapping tape.
Leave an inch extra at each end of the tape and fold that over on itself to make a pull tab. Now apply the lizard
skin and then pull the tape off while it's all still wet. This leaves the mating area clean and flat. I then sprayed that
part with the aerosol version of liquid electrical tape that I got at Lowes in the electrical aisle. This puts a thin/flat
layer of rubber where the firewall mates to the chassis. It lets you remove it later if needed by just drilling out the
rivets since it's not bonded like silicone would be. It still isolates a little bit for sound and the did-similar metals too.

I put my firewall on with 1/4 28 button heads both for the look and for the ease of removing it to drill for heater/AC,
harness holes etc. while mocking up and assembling the car. I also bought the internal firewall from Mike and used 1"
of foam between the 2 panels since the chassis tubes create that space anyway. Then I made footwell false panels and
used the same insulation there and Boom mat on the cockpit side.
Dale

Appreciate all the great feedback! I may steal a few (or all of those)...Thanks!

[JOP33]

I was able to build up the front rotors this weekend...68966

Installed the calipers...6896768968

I don't trust myself, so I bought a paint marker to mark bolts as I torque them...68969

I was also able to install the Ford Racing diff cover, it seemed to be pretty straight forward...68972

Went ahead and filled with oil and friction modifier while I had it out from under the car...6897468975

Moser spared no expense on this sexy rear axle vent...68976

I assume you just run a hose from it up to random place on the frame, I will check into this a little more.

[DaveS53]

Your vent fitting most likely has a 1/8" pipe thread. I use an elbow fitting with a 1/4" lawn mower fuel filter stuck in it, to keep dirt out. I also tried a little vent from Summit Racing that has porous bronze filter material, but it doesn't flow air easily, so I ditched it. It may be adequate.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-3406

[JOP33]

So I was able to spend some more time on the build this week. Things definitely move slower when you are working with a painted product, but I am also torquing and greasing as I go along this time. I prepped the rear end to go back on the chassis. So far this has been the biggest pain (well except for forming the brake lines), so maybe not the biggest, but a pain. It's just awkward in shape and weight and now add the fact that it and the chassis are both painted, I found it challenging both times I have installed it...uh, we installed it. Yes, my lovely wife has now installed her second rear end in her life both in less than about three months, but I sure couldn't have done it with out here. The positioning and tweaking to get the bolts to line up just right...let's just leave at that I (and she) are glad it's back in!
Rear end prep...69117

And now it's back on...6911869119

I think I mentioned earlier that my Brother-in-law loaned me a set of wheels just so I could the car rolling and on the ground...18x7.5's and 20x10's. He had them on a 68' Dodge, so the profile on the tires were a little bigger than I needed. Luckily there is a place just down the road that hooked me up with some used rubber for just a couple hundred dollars. I hope to have these on later today after I get the rear brakes installed.
Loaner wheels...69120

Oh by the way does anyone know what this is?69121

Maybe this will help...69122
As luck would have it, I was installing the front rotors to the rotor hats and the LAST bolt broke as I was torquing it. So now I have one rotor with a sheared 1/4-20 bolt red loctited in. I have reached out to Wilwood in hopes they could offer some support on this and they came back and said "they'd be happy to replace the hardware". I told them I greatly appreciate their support and if the rotor and hat are not mangled after I try and remove the bolt that I might take them up on that $0.75 bolt! Anyway, at this point it is on the vehicle and I do have a very large reminder on my whiteboard about it, but I haven't decided how I am going to tackle it yet.

I also received in the Lizard Skin from Jegs this week. I purchased both the Sound & Heat shield. This is prepping the firewall (thanks myjones) to spray the sound deadner as LS suggest spraying it first when using both...69123

I did end up scuffing the paint with a scotchbrite pad and wiping it down with thinner prior to spaying as well.

LS Sound Deadner...69124
I was hoping to get away with just taping it off one time, but after going to the LS website, they instruct you to wait a minimum of 24 hours before applying the heatshield, so I went ahead and removed the tape and let it dry for a day. I taped it back off and then sprayed the heatshield...6912569126
Both products were easy to work with and sprayed on fine with easy cleanup...just have to see how it works and holds up.

[JOP33]

While I was waiting on the Lizardskin to dry, I was able to get the tie rods on as well...691276912869129

So this is the chassis currently...69130691316913269133

I hope to get the brakes on later today and have this thing in wheels and tires by evening!

[JOP33]

I was able to move from just a "chassis" to a "rolling chassis"...wheels and tires are just temps, but it feels like another milestone.
692086920969210

[JOP33]

Has anyone had issues shimming the rear brake calipers on the Wilwood's? I guess issues is a relative term...I had to shim .200" to get the caliper centered in the rotor per instructions. This seemed a little excessive...69211

Also, does anyone have good pics of how they routed their e-brake from rear calipers back to mounting tab near trans loop?

Thanks

[DaveS53]

I would say that something is wrong if that many of the .035" washers are needed. The bolt is probably not long enough to use that many.

Do I see a little gap between the end of the blue axle housing and the adapter plate?

[JOP33]

Yes, rear brakes. This is the actual kit...http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-12049-D&year=2015&make=Factory+Five+Racing&model=33+Hot+Rod&option=1994-2004+Mustang+Spindle+%2f+8.8+Rear+End. Installed same driver side and didn't have as big of issue. I will tear down and reinstall tonight and see if I can figure out where the issue is at.

Thanks

[donshapansky]

Jamie you are doing well, I have had trouble with the rear brakes as well getting the gap the same on both sides of the caliper, I ended up with several washers. Then remember you will have to remove the calipers from the mounts to rotate them to 3 or 9 0'clock to get them bled. I have a professional bleeding system that pressurizes the reservoir, you can bleed the brakes without any help if your wife isn't available. Remind me when you come over for the "ride"!

[wrp]

Great Progress

[myjones]

Not sure which pads you have but IIRC some Mustang disc brake pads have a thick and thin pad. The difference is only a little but that
doubles the offset if you have them in the wrong place. It's worth a look.
Dale

[JOP33]

I have spent a little time the last couple of days working on the rear brakes. My set-up in the rear was requiring 6 shims to get the caliper casting centered on the rotor. I spoke with Wilwood and they said that typically they don't advise using more than 4 shims, but in some cases they have seen the need for more. I checked the measurements off the flange and everything seemed to be correct. I also double-checked to make sure the register washer was also sitting flush. I ended up flipping the C flange bracket (or flipping sides) so that the offset went the other way. This gave me an additional .100" and dropped my shim requirement down to 3.

C Flange Bracket Flipped...69342

I was at Home Depot the other day I came across a piece of tubing that is apparently used on a pressure washer for soap dispensing (I don't really know how all of that works), but it seemed to look like something that would make a good rear end vent hose...69341

[Midwest 33 Build]

Build is looking Great JOP33 !

[JOP33]

Thanks MW 33! It's been enjoyable so far...I keep waiting for the other foot to fall!

After I came to a compromising solution to my rear brake caliper shim issue, I move on to the e-brakes. They are just held in place with bungees as of right now since I am a little hesitant to mount them permanently until I figure out the exhaust routing...
69497694986949969500695016950269503695046950569506

[JOP33]

I also worked on the firewall a bit. I had already sprayed the Lizard Skin Heat and Sound barrier, but as others of you have done I went back to the area that was going to contact the the chassis and sprayed a thin film of Plast-Dip spray on. I wasn't real impressed with this as a solution (or my application of it as a solution), so I also went back with some rubber 1/16" washers before attaching the firewall. I am sure this thing will be off another 50 times, but it was good to see it up there...

Plasti-Dip...6950769508

Then rubber washers...695096951069511
I used just a little stick glue to hold them in place before mounting.

After floating a loan for the chrome button heads for this thing, I decided to go ahead and see what it would look like...6951269513

Lots more to get done this week.

[RoadRacer]

I also went back with some rubber 1/16" washers before attaching the firewall

Then rubber washers...695096951069511
I used just a little stick glue to hold them in place before mounting.

I've been thinking about this - how will you seal that? Haven't you now got many air gaps between the washers into the engine bay?

[JOP33]

The washers are only 1/16" thick so they compress pretty well while added some vibration protection. I will still have FFR precut sound and heat deadner as well on the inside. Probably a solid rubber gasket between would have been the most functional solution, but after speaking with others, I think unless you spray something from the inside to encapsulate the firewall and tubing you are going to have air seapage. I have not completely ruled that or going back with a solid gasket out.

[HVACMAN]

So last weekend was a complete failure with regards to running the brake lines. I had flare tooling issues (after issues), wasn't impressed with FFR options for running and went off on my own (not a good idea either) and just didn't not like working with the rhino lines that FFR provided...all of that being said, I chock most of the issues up to my experience routing and flaring brake line (uh, none to this point). Here are just a couple of things from a novice's perspective I wanted to mention (take it for what it's worth, again novice)...

1. IMHO, go ahead and purchase a coil of NiCopp line, a straightener and a "decent" flaring tool. The Rhino Lines supplied probably work great if you can stay in the realm of exactly where they are suppose to run, the NiCopp, cuts, bends & flares soooooo much easier.

2. Several of the less expensive flaring tools tell you to use the die adapter to set the height of the tube before forming...what I found is when I flushed the tube to that height, the pin got stuck in the tube and had to be pry'd out (in most cases damaging the flare). I was more successful with going just slightly shy of the full height.

3. Ultimately, I ended up bending small pieces for transitions in difficult to reach areas and then using unions on the straight pieces to attach.

4. I strayed from the suggested mounting locations a couple of times, only to later slap my hand on my head when I realized the reason FFR just didn't tell you to hang it in this "wide open" space (I forgot that the exhaust will also need to run through the rearend:mad:).

5. Finally, if you would like to make the perfect bent piece with perfect, beautiful, professional flares, 100% of the time (I guarantee), just don't put the fittings on before you flare the tube! Just kidding guys, I don't know how many times, I patted myself on the back after a flare just to look down and see that I had forgotten the fitting!

Anyway, here are the results of two weekends and this was just to dry fit...I will remove and re-install after powder, that's when the leaks will appear :(

67546

67547

67548

67549

67550

67551

What diameter tubing did you use?

[JOP33]

What diameter tubing did you use?

3/16" Nicopp

[JOP33]

Mounted brake reservoirs and closed the brake system up (in theory), will bleed system tomorrow...

6979669797

[RoadRacer]

Mounted brake reservoirs and closed the brake system up (in theory), will bleed system tomorrow...

Using the tube and tie-wrap trick for a spacer I see :)

Good luck with the bleeding, which tool/method are you using? There seem to be a lot of choices..

[JOP33]

Using the tube and tie-wrap trick for a spacer I see :)

Good luck with the bleeding, which tool/method are you using? There seem to be a lot of choices..

Yes...seems to do the job. I'll start with the vacuum method, but may end up with the old fashioned "buddy" pedal pump system.

[JOP33]

Spent a little time today building a "buck" for the body. Since the kit was delivered, I had been storing all the body panels on my two post lift...
69828

I am actually wanting to move the chassis to the lift now, so I needed to come up with another way to store the body, but would like for it to be mobile, this seemed to fit the bill...
69829

69830

This allowed me to get the chassis up on the lift...
69831

Didn't get as far as the brake bleed today, but I'm hopeful to press forward over the next couple of days...
6983269833
BTW...the movers dollies you see up against the wall are a great "cost effective" alternative to the wheel dollies that allow you to move the car. Each cost less than $10 at Harbor Freight and hold 1000 lbs each. I had the chassis with tires and wheels up on them for several days and it allowed me to roll the chassis around as needed.

[wrp]

Really Really looking good

[Tampa33Build]

Good start, looks great
I was thinking about using the moving dollies vs. buying the wheel dollies. Will most likely never need the dollies after the build is complete. Glad to see they worked.

[myjones]

Good start, looks great
I was thinking about using the moving dollies vs. buying the wheel dollies. Will most likely never need the dollies after the build is complete. Glad to see they worked.

I screwed upside down 5 gal buckets to my moving dollies so it sat higher and was easy to move around and work on for the suspension assembly.
Up until the engine and tranny go in the dollies and buckets are fine for the weight, no need to buy the rolling stock until later doing it that way.
HTH
Dale
7L hemi 33

[JOP33]

I was able to get the brakes bled this weekend. Seemed to be a little bit more of a challenge for me than I had originally anticipated. I must admit this was my first attempt to bleed brakes, so I am sure that has almost everything to do with it. Anyway, I went one time around on all corners with the vacuum method. I did have a couple connections I needed to tighten, I guess I also made the rookie mistake of not placing teflon tape on the connections coming out of the bottom of the reservoirs as well as the connections going into the calipers themselves. I had tightened both as tight as I thought I could get them and both were still seeping. I was challenged a bit by the Wilwood Brakes that required rotating to 3 or 9 o'clock while still around the rotor as the the positioning seemed to put the flex lines in some peculiar configurations. After completing yesterday morning, I let the chassis sit for the remainder of the day on the lift and periodically checked for leaks...so far so good. I did have an issue with my lift where it would just continue to go up! I think the switch is bad, will deal with the manufacturer on that later today. I am going to go ahead and make another round on all corners tonight bleeding the lines and check once again for leaks. I used the vacuum method the first time around, I will have a helper this time and will try the old fashioned method for the final go around.

[RoadRacer]

Well done, that job is fast approaching for me too.

[JOP33]

Engine should be ready to ship Monday...70165701667016770168701697017070171701727 0173

[JOP33]

Is there some additional information about setting up the brake bias bar that ya'll may be able to share? After looking at the manual and then the Wilwood instructions, it just seems like there is more to the set-up than just adjusting the threaded rods from each MC forward or backwards. I have currently bled my system once (I know I still have some air in the system), but the diagram that is in the manual shows the front brake clevis forward of the rear brake clevis with "no effort" or at rest, then the clevises are even at "moderate effort" and finally the front clevis edges past the rear clevis with "heavy effort". Am I taking the drawing too literal in thinking that the clevises should appear this way as they travel? Mine start out in the correct position but then just maintain the same relative position throughout travel. I will qualify by saying that my MC's are installed opposite of the picture (the bores are correct for each respective brake...Fronts 3/4", Rears 5/8") as during my initial buildup and plumbing (other than the diagram for the bias bar set-up) there was no reference to if a certain MC needed to be placed to the left or right. Anyway, I have adjusted rods forward and back on each MC, alternated the set-up and it seems no matter what I try I get the same visual result. There is a nut on the actual threaded bias rod (runs at angle in the picture), but even loosening and tightening this doesn't seem to achieve a difference. I think these are the areas where being a "Newbie" create some challenges, as your only frame of reference is the manual and we all know that what it depicts is sometimes inaccurate. I'm open to any advice, input or feedback on this one.
Thanks

70433

No Effort...
70430
Moderate Effort...
70431
Heavy Effort...
70432

[HVACMAN]

Is there some additional information about setting up the brake bias bar that ya'll may be able to share? After looking at the manual and then the Wilwood instructions, it just seems like there is more to the set-up than just adjusting the threaded rods from each MC forward or backwards. I have currently bled my system once (I know I still have some air in the system), but the diagram that is in the manual shows the front brake clevis forward of the rear brake clevis with "no effort" or at rest, then the clevises are even at "moderate effort" and finally the front clevis edges past the rear clevis with "heavy effort". Am I taking the drawing too literal in thinking that the clevises should appear this way as they travel? Mine start out in the correct position but then just maintain the same relative position throughout travel. I will qualify by saying that my MC's are installed opposite of the picture (the bores are correct for each respective brake...Fronts 3/4", Rears 5/8") as during my initial buildup and plumbing (other than the diagram for the bias bar set-up) there was no reference to if a certain MC needed to be placed to the left or right. Anyway, I have adjusted rods forward and back on each MC, alternated the set-up and it seems no matter what I try I get the same visual result. There is a nut on the actual threaded bias rod (runs at angle in the picture), but even loosening and tightening this doesn't seem to achieve a difference. I think these are the areas where being a "Newbie" create some challenges, as your only frame of reference is the manual and we all know that what it depicts is sometimes inaccurate. I'm open to any advice, input or feedback on this one.
Thanks

70433

No Effort...
70430
Moderate Effort...
70431
Heavy Effort...
70432

I sure am glad you posted this. I have questioned my install every since I did it. I don't have mine plumbed yet, but when the pedal is depressed the rear M/C (outboard) moves first and leads during the entire pedal stroke. Is it because there is no hydraulic resistance yet?

[JOP33]

I sure am glad you posted this. I have questioned my install every since I did it. I don't have mine plumbed yet, but when the pedal is depressed the rear M/C (outboard) moves first and leads during the entire pedal stroke. Is it because there is no hydraulic resistance yet?

I am not sure and it is unclear with the "drawing" whether they are just trying to show that the Front receives more pressure or if it physically should move past the rear.

[JOP33]

Came across this in another thread... http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23638-Need-some-Brake-advice

Not sure it answers anything though.

[JOP33]

Had a far more impressive "brake bleed" tonight, with significant rotor engagement on all four corners. Did uncover a few more small leaks, tightened, wiped down and am hopeful they will be dry in the morning. If not I may spend the rest of the weekend reforming & flaring some lines to reduce connections...fingers crossed! I must say at this point there is probably something to using the pre-flared pieces of brake line that FFR sends with the kit and looking back I would probably have tried a little harder to make them work for me knowing what I know now...everyday is a learning experience:rolleyes:.

[JOP33]

Well I was hopeful that all was well on the brakes, however I woke to two connections leaking slightly. So knowing that I had already torqued on these (several times) to try and get them them to quit seeping and also hearing the voices of the Instructors at build school in the back of my head saying..."If you have a leak don't just wrench down on it to make it go away...if it's leaking while it's sitting in your garage, driving it down the road at 70mph probably isn't going to help the situation". So, I bit the bullet, vacuumed the fluid out, went ahead and changed the MC's around so that the layout would match the manual and proceeded to remove (6) connections out of the lines by re-plumbing some areas with longer runs. Things were moving along at a good pace and I had just finished all the forms and flares and had everything loosely fit when I went to re-tighten the tee and the front driver side brake caliper adapter fitting (the round fitting that connects to the flex lines)...when SNAP! The male end of the tee snap off in the adapter...needless to say, I am now awaiting the arrival of a new adapter from Summit. I still feel good about the changes I made and have my fingers crossed that once I get the fitting I should be able to close the system back up and bleed the brakes and move on...and if not, I may have to turn the brakes over to a professional, because as it is right now I may have the most expensive brake lines ever put on a FFR 33'!!!!

Fun times though!

[RoadRacer]

Ugh, what do you think the cause was? Do the flares look good? I remember making some in the distant past with one of those cheap tools that didn't always look perfect, but they were in copper and it was so soft that I never had a leak once tightened.

[HVACMAN]

Well I was hopeful that all was well on the brakes, however I woke to two connections leaking slightly. So knowing that I had already torqued on these (several times) to try and get them them to quit seeping and also hearing the voices of the Instructors at build school in the back of my head saying..."If you have a leak don't just wrench down on it to make it go away...if it's leaking while it's sitting in your garage, driving it down the road at 70mph probably isn't going to help the situation". So, I bit the bullet, vacuumed the fluid out, went ahead and changed the MC's around so that the layout would match the manual and proceeded to remove (6) connections out of the lines by re-plumbing some areas with longer runs. Things were moving along at a good pace and I had just finished all the forms and flares and had everything loosely fit when I went to re-tighten the tee and the front driver side brake caliper adapter fitting (the round fitting that connects to the flex lines)...when SNAP! The male end of the tee snap off in the adapter...needless to say, I am now awaiting the arrival of a new adapter from Summit. I still feel good about the changes I made and have my fingers crossed that once I get the fitting I should be able to close the system back up and bleed the brakes and move on...and if not, I may have to turn the brakes over to a professional, because as it is right now I may have the most expensive brake lines ever put on a FFR 33'!!!!

Fun times though!

You switched the master cylinders around? Now I am really doubting my install. when sitting in the drivers seat, The front MC (3/4 in.) is on the right and the rear (5/8 in.) is on the left. Is this correct? That is what I interpreted from the FFR illustration.

[JOP33]

You switched the master cylinders around? Now I am really doubting my install. when sitting in the drivers seat, The front MC (3/4 in.) is on the right and the rear (5/8 in.) is on the left. Is this correct? That is what I interpreted from the FFR illustration.

You are correct...and now mine matches that. The manual (other than the drawing) had not stated which to place where (at least that I had come across) and in the end I do believe it would work either way, but since I had everything a part (again) I went ahead and matched it to the drawing for consistency sake...it would have bothered me the entire time I owned the car if I would have left. Sorry, believe the last thing I wanted to do is to add to the confusion.

HTH

[HVACMAN]

You are correct...and now mine matches that. The manual (other than the drawing) had not stated which to place where (at least that I had come across) and in the end I do believe it would work either way, but since I had everything a part (again) I went ahead and matched it to the drawing for consistency sake...it would have bothered me the entire time I owned the car if I would have left. Sorry, believe the last thing I wanted to do is to add to the confusion.

HTH

No worries. I was already doubting myself. You have really helped. Thanks.

[JOP33]

After weeks of frustration on the brakes, I am finally happy with the outcome (I actually think that some of you have received your kits and finished them in the time it has taken me to get an acceptable outcome on my brakes:eek:). I was able to get a good "bleed" on the brakes without any significant leaks on the lines. When all was said and done, I just think it was poor flaring on my part. I think the key is just taking your time and accepting a compromise with yourself about functionality over looks. I also bought a MC bleed kit from Autozone ($10), that had some really useful plastic fittings that helped with the "bench" bleed for the MC's (actually allowed me to just do this on the chassis). I have had the chassis up on the lift for the better part of two days now, pumping then checking for leaks several times, with no issues...fingers crossed! In fact I was so confident that I moved on to installing the steering column and starting the install on the steering shafts. I ended up making some spacers to allow me to offset the steering column a bit so that it didn't fall so close to the brake pedal. Also went with a shorter bolts on one side to allow for easier clearance during tightening. I am to a point now where I am contemplating the location of the Unisteer steering assist module. Hope to do a little research tonight and see what ya'll have been able to come up with on this. Has anyone reached out to Unisteer to see if they offer some "extension" harnesses for the module? Sure would make things a little easier if there was about 2 more feet of wire. I'm hoping that I make some decent process this week as the engine and transmission are due to ship.

Reservoirs...70998

Spacers for steering column and shorter bolts...7099971000

Firewall steering shaft bearing...71001

Steering shaft pics...71002710037100471005

[JOP33]

Ugh, what do you think the cause was? Do the flares look good? I remember making some in the distant past with one of those cheap tools that didn't always look perfect, but they were in copper and it was so soft that I never had a leak once tightened.

RR, I think it was just poor flaring on my part. I ended up buying (3) flare kits (all the same "cheaper" style, but different manufacturers) and saw really no huge difference between any of them. The first, I ended up breaking the pin on the mandrel that goes into the tubing to "bubble", the second and third both seem to work about the same. I am sure all of you are using the same style and I don't seem to hear about too many struggles, so I really believe it was either operator error on my part or there is just that much to be said for using the FFR supplied pre-flared lines. I was really close to having a local shop run them for me and it wouldn't take much in the future if I have additional issues to follow through. It seemed like a relatively simple process and I really wanted to complete them myself. Plus, I got to thinking that if I "outsource" the brakes it may start a a trend and that's not what I got the kit for.

Thanks

[JOP33]

So to answer my own question...Unisteer doesn't offer an off the shelf option for the extended wire harnesses (it was worth a try), so splicing seems to be only other option :(.

[JOP33]

It' been a few weeks since last update and honestly I haven't made much progress. Partly as I have been waiting on some parts but mostly it's been HOT. I have a 36" porta cool and it does a really good job if you are right up on it, but after that...let's face it, it's just blowing more hot air. We have been blessed with a bit of a cool down this last week though, so I tried to get a few things done...

Evaporator for the AC unit...72126
72127

Ordered and received Firewall Manifold for AC/Heater lines...
72128

Ordered and received Radiator Shroud from Mike Everson...
72129

Ordered Battery, battery shut-off and billet battery box as well.

Transmission was shipped on Monday and recieved (or rejected I should say) as transmission fluid was leaking all over the place (I assume the containers were damaged) and the DO NOT STACK sticker was crushed! So I rejected it, we'll see how long it takes for it to come back around. Was a little surprised to see it wasn't crated.

The Engine from Engine Factory was received today and they did an awesome job crating! Haven't unpackaged completely, will post some better pics when I do...72130

Also built the bullet on a Engine lift...72131

And installed an overhead lift in hopes it will help on getting the body on and off...72132

Hope to get the rest of the aluminum panels Lizard Skin'd this weekend and start working on the fuel lines.

[JOP33]

After emailing Dan Ruth about the evap location, I found that I had located it in the wrong place. I ended up sliding it toward the passenger side some and believe it is in its proper location now...72252

I also fit-up the fuel tank and drilled holes for mounting bolts...72253

Was able to spray the sound deadening coat of the Lizard Skin on the majority of the aluminum panels, 24 hours for drying then will spray ceramic coat tomorrow...72254

Also unwrapped the engine as I couldn't help myself. Here are few pics...722557225672257

[TxMike64]

Also unwrapped the engine as I couldn't help myself...

I don't blame you, that's a good lookin motor!!!

[JOP33]

I don't blame you, that's a good lookin motor!!!

Thx Mike...It will look a lot better sitting in that chassis...someday!

[JOP33]

I was able to get a few things done yesterday. Since I sprayed the panels with Lizard Skin this week, I took the fuel tank out and placed the aluminum panel underneath it and re-installed the tank. I will try and run the fuel lines this week...72579
I extended the plate that the evaporator is mounted to, so that I could also mount the Uni-Steer steering module on it as well...72580
I also broke out the wiring harness and started some preliminary routing of it...725817258272583
Got the fuse panel located and mounted as well...7258472585
I have opted to place the battery in the trunk so the power cable is about 2' too short, so I am ordering a longer cable lead that will reach all the way to the trunk without having to splice. I also will need to pick up some wire to extend the leads on the Uni-Steer module since I have it behind the firewall now. Fuel lines and plumbing for the tank are the plan for this week.

[JOP33]

Are most builders installing the engine and transmission before the radiator/condenser or waiting until after? Would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

[1932]

Cannot get mine in or out with front on.

[erlihemi]

Are most builders installing the engine and transmission before the radiator/condenser or waiting until after? Would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Pretty much everyone is setting the engine in first, but you may want to do a mock fit of the grille early and then pull it off. Since you have the engine already you can get it in and bag it while you do all the fiberglass or just leave it closed up and clean. Your doing really nice detail work under the dash so you may want to paint the rough glass under the dash a light primer color. The glass is thin around the cowl mold line also. good time to add some mat and cloth before you start fitting up the body. I like more glass under the window mounting area just for peace of mind. A light color under the dash may pay off later. With black carpet and black glass it gets hard to trace wire and do add on stuff later.

[TDSapp]

Hey Jop,

How much of the Lizard Skin have you used on your car? I was going to order some today but wanted to make sure I was getting enough. Right now Jegs has one gallon of the black ceramic insulation, the spray gun, and 2 cans of the top coat. Would that be enough to do the hot rod?



Tim

[JOP33]

Hey Jop,

How much of the Lizard Skin have you used on your car? I was going to order some today but wanted to make sure I was getting enough. Right now Jegs has one gallon of the black ceramic insulation, the spray gun, and 2 cans of the top coat. Would that be enough to do the hot rod?



Tim

Really depends on what you plan on covering. I know some have used it on the aluminum as well as under the body itself. I have used one gallon to cover one entire side of all of the floor pans, fire wall, etc.. I will probably end up buying one more gallon. I plan on covering the inside of the cab with the heat and sound shield kit from FFR. I suggest it though...you can really tell the difference.

HTH

[JOP33]

It's been a couple weeks since last updating...I may have mentioned that when the AOD Transmission was shipped it showed up in a box (that was crushed) with a sticker that read "DO NOT STACK", needless to say I rejected it as transmission fluid was leaking all over my driveway (had to be just from the fluid shipped, but I wasn't taking any chances). Well this last week the company that I bought the transmission from made good on it, reshipped in a (crated) box, must better condition and all is good (at least as good as I can tell until install).7316473165

I spent the better part of last weekend splicing the wires on the Unisteer unit since I decided to mount inside the cockpit. I cut the required lines, matched up the wire gauge and soldered and heat shrinked the splices. I also went ahead and added the lines to the front wire harness looms...73166

I also went ahead and mounted the tank floor pan. I used some high temp rtv sealant and then pop riveted the floor in. I am one of the one's that have decided to go with the stock FFR fuel tank (only time will tell whether that was a good decision or not). I have also decided to mount the battery in the trunk...7316773168

I temporarily installed the trunk panels to get an idea on the battery and installed the tank vent, fuel pick-up, sending unit & filler neck (temporarily, but more on that in a minute)...7316973170

So I purchased the 302 from Engine Factory with the Holley Sniper EFI Kit installed. EF sent the kit with 3/8" Flex EFI Fuel Line (and strongly suggested that I not downsize from 3/8"). So the FFR pick-up has a 3/8" steel Dorman connection out and 1/4" steel Dorman connection return. I am having to go to Breeze for fittings that allow me to make the required connections or I can drill into the tank for the return and use a -6 AN fitting to 3/8" barb. I'm not so sure I want to drill into the tank, but at least I now have options thanks to Mark at Breeze. He suggested either way drilling the tube pressings open to allow for the maximum amount of flow and return. If I decide to drill the tank and not use the steel return all together he said to just crimp the line down and bend it over 90 degrees...I am still deciding how I will move forward on that...73171

[JOP33]

So I did move on to running the 3/8" line (pending my decision on how to terminate), I also created a "hillbilly" fuel pump rail just to make mounting the pre & post filters and the pump a little easier...731977319873199

Hope to clean and organize the shop a little tomorrow morning then it's on to attaching the torque converter to the AOD transmission and the to the engine. I hope to be dropping the engine in later this month:eek:

[DaveS53]

A return line should dump the fuel at the bottom of the tank, just like a suction tube for the fuel pump. Dumping fuel out at the top creates foaming.

[JOP33]

Wanted a way to move the engine around the shop without having to hook up the lift just yet. I am sure most of you have heard of a rolling chassis...this is a rolling engine!
73200
Say what you want about the "Horror Fright Tool Store", these $7 rolling dollies have saved my tail countless times during this build so far.

[JOP33]

So it was a real pain getting the engine off the pallet it was shipped on and on to the floor. At first, I thought I would just use the engine lift to crank it up, unbolt from the pallet and sit it down. Nope...not that easy. The pallet was wider than the V base on the lift so I couldn't get far enough in to lift it straight up and off the pallet. So I ended up using the car lift (it explicitly states not to use it for lifting engines;))...it worked great! I just lifted it enough to take the weight off the pallet. I was then able to use the lift to move it to a more open area...
73412
The trans wasn't so bad. I was able just to lift it up and move it near the engine for fit up...
73413
So then as I started getting ready to install the torque converter into the bellhousing, I noticed I didn't have any hardware to mount the trans to the block, or flange nuts for attaching the converter to the flexplate or a TV cable. After a call to Engine Factory they took care of things, but said it would be a week or two as it would all be coming out of Florida from Monster and they were on Hurricane watch. I wanted to try and get the trans mated to the block this weekend, so my impatience prevailed. I called Ford and picked up the flange nuts for the converter and then went by the local Fastenal for the 7/16-14 x 2-1/4" bolts that mount the bell housing to the block.
I then installed the torque converter and confirmed the spacing to the studs as the instructions stated...
734177341873419
I also went ahead and attached the trans to the block, this took a little more patience than I thought I had, but I persevered and in the end won out (we'll see)...73426

Siri is suppose to remind me in the morning to install the flange nuts on the converter. Then tomorrow I am going to remove the lower firewall and reinstall with some sealant and also go back and lock tight my steering linkages as they have just been hand tightened so far.

[erlihemi]

If you get the $299 harbor fake coupon, a motorcycle lift works great for "dressing" the engine and tranny. You do need the wide base engine hoist or alternate hoist though. It also makes a great variable height work bench.

[JOP33]

If you get the $299 harbor fake coupon, a motorcycle lift works great for "dressing" the engine and tranny. You do need the wide base engine hoist or alternate hoist though. It also makes a great variable height work bench.

I don't know EH, I might have reached the point of deminishing returns on tooling from HF. I noticed as I was using my 2 ton engine lift purchased from there to lift the trans last night that it kept bleeding down. I'll doublecheck today but it maybe headed back so I can reach a little deeper in my pocket for something more reliable!

[donshapansky]

Jamie, I wanted to mention one thing that bit me, that is mating the transmission to the engine. You have to make sure the two mated together with ease or a clunk when you pushed them together. If the two surfaces had to be drawn together under pressure you will find the engine is locked. This is due to the torque converter not fully inserted into the trans. pump.
If it is locked just de-mate the engine from the trans. and spin the converter with pressure on it until moves in about another 1/2 inch or so. Don't ask how I know this! Your progress looks good!

[JOP33]

Thanks Don and you are correct! Luckily Monster did a good job of preparing me for that exact event. I was also able to move the torque coverter freely which was a good sign.

Thanks again!

[JOP33]

I have been waiting on the TV Cable for the transmission so I can install before dropping engine/tran into the chassis. Unfortunately Monster is out of south Florida and has been without electricity since Irma, but has still managed to promise the cable delivery this week. As you all know though, there is always plenty of other areas to work on, so I tried get the AC and Heater lines to the firewall bulkhead mocked up. I say mocked up because who knew it was going to be so difficult to find a shop to crimp the AC lines. I called (6) AC repair shops yesterday and (3) auto parts stores with no luck. I did finally talk to someone that can do them and will try to get it to them later this week.

Any local builders going to the Goodguys Show at TMS this coming weekend?

7409574096740977409874099

[JOP33]

I was going to start working on the grill/rad/condenser build up next...have most found the FFR trans cooler to be sufficient or have you had to integrate additional cooling for the trans?

Thanks

[bakerboerne]

Hey Jamie I got tired of running around and paying people 20 bucks a crimp. I bought a crimper made by Mastercool. Cost $130 and I have not charged the system yet, but it was real easy to use and
I could put twists in the hose for fit purposes. Bought from ToolTopia no shipping cost or tax. Still not sure how well the crimps hold will let you know...

[bakerboerne]

BTW I will be going to the Key to Hills Rod Run in Boerne Tx, October 14th. Was hoping to take the 33 ready but doesn't look like it will be ready in time. Should be a lot of cool rods there.

[TDSapp]

JOP,

I am going to Good Guys to check everything out and to crawl around the swap meet. I plan to be there most of the day.

[JOP33]

JOP,

I am going to Good Guys to check everything out and to crawl around the swap meet. I plan to be there most of the day.

I went Fall of last year and Spring of this year...amazing show! Over 2500 vehicles. I spent 8 hours walking around and probably only saw half the show (and only one FFR 33').

[JOP33]

Saw some beautiful cars yesterday at the GG's Show! Also great to see some FFR 33's there as well. I was able to talk to two builders...Jim out of San Antonio and Wayne from Flower Mound, thanks for sharing your time.
Jim's 33'
74446
74447
74448

Waynes 33':
74449
74450
74451

[RoadRacer]

I was able to talk to two builders...Jim out of San Antonio
Jim's 33'
74447


Didn't know there was a Jim with a 33 in San Antonio! Wish I'd gone now..

[TDSapp]

I also went and besides the two you have pictures of above I saw one more. It was a black one from out of state and was fenderless with a hard top, hood (open) and side panels (on). I have a bunch of pictures but need to get them off my camera and edit them before I can post them.

It was a great show and I even found a steering wheel and adapter for my hot rod in one of the indoor vendor areas.


Tim

[JOP33]

I also went and besides the two you have pictures of above I saw one more. It was a black one from out of state and was fenderless with a hard top, hood (open) and side panels (on). I have a bunch of pictures but need to get them off my camera and edit them before I can post them.

It was a great show and I even found a steering wheel and adapter for my hot rod in one of the indoor vendor areas.


Tim

I'd be surprised if that was the only one I missed! Loads of cars to sort through...IMHO maybe too many for one show. I also visited our new local auto parts retailer (not only this weekend, but last weekend too) and although I did walk away with a couple good deals, they have an awful lot to learn about retail sales and customer service. Last weekend I was there for 3 hours for an AC hose!

[JOP33]

Anyway, I finally received the TV Cable for the Trans, so I hope to get back on that and try to get the Engine in two weeks! I have also been working on the grill/condenser/radiator setup. I'll try to post pics soon.

[JOP33]

Here are the pics grill/condenser/rad, still need to install spacers for condenser tube clearance and drill holes for mounting...
75119

75120

75121

[JOP33]

My brother in law and sister in law came in this weekend (mainly for the Dallas game, good game bad ending), but also he brought his crimp line tool. So I was finally able to crimp some of the lines for the AC. It's amazing what you can do with the proper tool...
75122

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75124

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[JOP33]

Plan on putting the engine and transmission in this weekend. I'd love to hear some advise from other builders on things to look, listen, etc. for.

[NAZ]

Here's a tip on installing your engine & trans: It is much easier to install the engine / trans through the front without the grill in the way. Use a cherry picker with an articulating lifting adapter so you can adjust the angle of the engine during the installation process. Take a look at the album gallery for my build titled 33 Hot Rod Roll Cage and there are photos showing the process. I can install and remove mine solo (and have several times now).

[JOP33]

Here's a tip on installing your engine & trans: It is much easier to install the engine / trans through the front without the grill in the way. Use a cherry picker with an articulating lifting adapter so you can adjust the angle of the engine during the installation process. Take a look at the album gallery for my build titled 33 Hot Rod Roll Cage and there are photos showing the process. I can install and remove mine solo (and have several times now).

Thanks NAZ...and awesome build by the way!

[JOP33]

Engine & Trans going in tomorrow morning:eek:...wish me luck!

[erlihemi]

Luck is a result of preparation and opportunity. You seem to have both in your favor.

Enjoy

[WIS89]

Good luck this weekend. I feel confident that it will all go well, as you have done things pretty darned well so far, so no reason not to expect the same!

I look forward to seeing the pics of the successful install! Great progress, and an enjoyable thread to follow along with.

Sorry about the "Boys," but they will get it back together. I am not sure this season will be one to remember however.

Give it heck this weekend!!

Regards,

Steve

[JOP33]

Good luck this weekend. I feel confident that it will all go well, as you have done things pretty darned well so far, so no reason not to expect the same!

I look forward to seeing the pics of the successful install! Great progress, and an enjoyable thread to follow along with.

Sorry about the "Boys," but they will get it back together. I am not sure this season will be one to remember however.

Give it heck this weekend!!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks for the kind comments! Happy to report all went well! Will post pics later this evening.

As fer the boys, we've weathered worst losses!

[JOP33]

So with the help of a few guys from work we were able to get the heart of Star Mobile 1 into the beast. I must say it actually went a little easier than expected. I was a little concerned in the beginning that the Unisteer Unit was going to hit but it just barely clears the engine mounting bracket. It did make it very hard to get a wrench or a socket on the nut that holds the isolator bracket to the engine mounts. I thought that I would have to go with a short oil filter too, so I took it off (for the most part crushed it getting it off) only to find out after the install that if would have fit fine:mad:.

Lift & 302...
75327

Prepping Tools...
75328

Isolator Brackets & Engine Compartment...
75329
75330

Final Prep on Engine...
75331
75332

Engine installed...
75333
75334
75335
75336

[JOP33]

Here are some additional pics...
75337

Clearance of Unisteer & crushed oil filter...
75338

Firewall Clearance...
75339
75340

IMHO getting the headers installed was much more challenging. I am not sure how to get 25ft/lbs of torque on bolts you can barely get a wrench on.

Drivers Side header...
75341
75342

Passengers Side header...
75343

I also replaced the stock dipstick with something a little less yellow...
75344

All in all it was a good weekend and I was able to get done what I wanted to. I will probably get back on the radiator this week and I also need to paint the driveshaft, which does bring me to a question for ya'll. What establishes the proper height for the transmission bracket? Is it just the height that is established by the installation of the driveshaft to the diff and then the transmission? Meaning, whatever height it takes to get the driveshaft bolted to diff and trans. I could use some input on this.

Thanks

[DaveS53]

Here's some info. I bought a digital level for $40 at Home Depot. It works for comparing the engine angle to the pinion angle and measuring the driveshaft angle. I also used it to adjust camber and caster.

https://www.iedls.com/#Power_Train

FWIW, the LS3 in my car is set dead level and has about the same oil pan ground clearance as a Corvette. The pinion angle matches the engine and the driveshaft angle is only about 1.5 degrees in the vertical plane. The 9 inch Ford rear end has a pinion offset of 15/16 inch so it also has some angle in the horizontal plane. No angle is undesirable because the needle bearings in the u-joints would not rotate if the driveshaft had no angle at all.

[JOP33]

Here's some info. I bought a digital level for $40 at Home Depot. It works for comparing the engine angle to the pinion angle and measuring the driveshaft angle. I also used it to adjust camber and caster.

https://www.iedls.com/#Power_Train

FWIW, the LS3 in my car is set dead level and has about the same oil pan ground clearance as a Corvette. The pinion angle matches the engine and the driveshaft angle is only about 1.5 degrees in the vertical plane. The 9 inch Ford rear end has a pinion offset of 15/16 inch so it also has some angle in the horizontal plane. No angle is undesirable because the needle bearings in the u-joints would not rotate if the driveshaft had no angle at all.

Thanks for the input Dave.

[JOP33]

I hope to spend a good bit of time this weekend on the build. I need get the kickdown cable installed, mount the radiator to the grill, install the grill, install the pre-load bracket on the trans mount, paint the drive shaft and install it (all hopefully this weekend). I want to try and get fluids in the engine in the next week or two before the weather changes too much.

[JOP33]

Was able to put a bit of work in last night and this morning.

Temporarily connected the fuel lines. I know they are not pretty, but I am still try to decide how I will route and mount...
75691

I also worked on the grill assembly. I am going with a third party AC system, so I am installing a condenser...
75692

75693

75694

75695

75696

I did have to make a few mods for the lines...
75697

Installed the thermostat sensor...
75698

75699

[JOP33]

I also went with a third part fan shroud...

75700

75701

75702

[1932]

Looks good!

[JOP33]

Thanks 1932. I didn't get quite as much done as I wanted to today. I had to run to the auto parts store to get some 14 gauge wire to extend the ground for the thermo sensor on the rad, but all in all it was a productive day. BTW, anyone that is mocking up and if you are going to run the wire harness in the front across the lower cross bar as the manual suggest, go ahead and drill the hole for the hanger before paint. It was a bit of a challenge to drill a hole perpendicular to the plate and then install the rivet without jacking up the paint.

Splice for ground...
75711

Wires for passenger headlight hung on rad bracket for now...
75713

Still trying to decide on a good place for horns, just testing things out now, but wished I would have waited to pop that rivet on the wire hanger:mad:...
75714

Installed the grill to see how much room will be left behind for horns. I have interference somewhere though as when I lower the vehicle on the lift the grill wants to move forward:confused:...
75715

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75717

IMHO, this is the character of the 33'...
75718

That grill is awesome!
75719

More grill work tomorrow, paint driveshaft, maybe a little wiring and radiator work, plenty to do now that the engine is in!

[TDSapp]

Your build is looking good... It looks like you are not too far off from having to post a first start video and then a Go Carting Video.



I put my horns right where you have yours mocked up.

http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20171015_162406.jpg

I too have some paint to touch up from having to drill that hole once everything was done. I am also going to find a wire hanger that has a bolt hole big enough to go over the bolt for the horns. That way I am not drilling another hole anywhere.

[JOP33]

Your build is looking good... It looks like you are not too far off from having to post a first start video and then a Go Carting Video.



I put my horns right where you have yours mocked up.

http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20171015_162406.jpg

I too have some paint to touch up from having to drill that hole once everything was done. I am also going to find a wire hanger that has a bolt hole big enough to go over the bolt for the horns. That way I am not drilling another hole anywhere.

Tim, you read my mind with the bolt for the horns. I did just that last night after drilling out the rivet. I’ll post pics this evening. I’m hoping for a first start by December.



I also might add for those of you that are installing a condenser and radiator shroud that you may want to make sure your front upper control arm bolts are installed with the heads toward the front of the vehicle. I had mine installed the opposite direction and had an interference issue with the radiator shroud. By flipping them I gained about 3/8” of clearance between the shroud when the control arms articulate.

Thanks

[JOP33]

Installed the ground to block yesterday (something else I wished I had drilled prior to paint)...
75823

75824

Here are some pics of the bolt directions that I needed to reverse for clearance for the shroud. The first pic shows one the right way (for my application at least) and one the wrong way. The second pic shows both in the position that allowed me the most clearance...
75825

75826

After scoping out the spacing (and removing the radiator), I decided to go ahead and mount the horns on the same bolt as the wire harness (much like Tim detailed in the above post)...
75827

75828

Will try to get the radiator back on and I then am digging into the wire harness schematics, Holley EFI instructions & Autometer instructions on which temp sensor I use (and how it gets wired or connected) :confused: :confused:.

[1932]

Clean paint from under ground.(if you have good). The wiring is a problem i have ford coyote wire and FFR wire and vintage air and i am doing some my way, so after trying to make it all work i cut the wiring harness apart to take out and shorten and reroute wires. Hope it goes good for you.
Tom

[JOP33]

Clean paint from under ground.(if you have good). The wiring is a problem i have ford coyote wire and FFR wire and vintage air and i am doing some my way, so after trying to make it all work i cut the wiring harness apart to take out and shorten and reroute wires. Hope it goes good for you.
Tom

Did clear paint away before attaching ground (again something I wished I had taped off before paint). Making sense of merging all of the components during the wiring process is a little overwhelming right now. I’m just trying to read over everything I have and take it slow. The mechanical connections haven’t been an issue so far.

Thanks Tom

[JOP33]

I haven't made too much progress this week as I really haven't worked much out in the shop. I did get the horns wired, although I must say that I wasn't real impressed with how the manual wants them wired. Trying to feed the (2) 14ga wires they want you to crimp into one female spade connector was a little too hopeful on their part. I did manage to make the connections and then loomed up what I could...

76006

76007

I also installed the temp sensor for the Autometer gauges...

76008

Was going to install the heater hoses too, but I am going to have to pick up a threaded heater hose adapter.

I know it is difficult to tell in the pic, but I installed the grill back in and switching the direction of the bolts in the UCA's gave me plenty of clearance...

Before...

76009

After...

76010

[JOP33]

Ok, my apologies ahead of time for the next few stupid questions I have:

It's my understanding that it doesn't matter which of the (2) heater hose tubes in the heater core go where. Assuming that is true, one of those hoses gets the heater valve installed in it. Which direction should the flow arrow be going on the valve...toward the engine or away from it? Also, once we've established the direction of the flow on the valve, where should that specific hose (with the valve) terminate at the engine? Does it go to the upper (1) or the lower (2)?

76011

Thanks

[DarthTedious]

I think I understand the question correctly, but anyone here feel free to correct me. You want to take the hot water off the intake manifold (#1), flow through the heater core, and then out into the water pump (#2). Your heater control valve should be between the intake manifold, flow arrow pointing away from the engine, and the heater core so that when it is off, no hot water gets into your A/C unit to counteract your A/C.

[JOP33]

I think I understand the question correctly, but anyone here feel free to correct me. You want to take the hot water off the intake manifold (#1), flow through the heater core, and then out into the water pump (#2). Your heater control valve should be between the intake manifold, flow arrow pointing away from the engine, and the heater core so that when it is off, no hot water gets into your A/C unit to counteract your A/C.

Ok, that is consistent with what I was thinking too, but wasn’t entirely sure.
Thanks DT

[BigB]

In the instructions it says to connect the heater control valve "on one of the hoses". Does it matter what heater hose is connected to what barb on the A/C heater unit? Is there a flow path in the unit or does it not matter which way it comes in and out?

[1932]

I do not think it makes any difference at heater core , but the valve has to be in the hose going to the core with flow arrow going to heater. The other thing is with the coyote you need a bypass valve so water flows in head.

[JOP33]

Amazing what you'll find when you look through your massive pile of instructions...

76062

There is an arrow on the bottom of the valve, but it was too late and I was too tired to check which way it went. Mine had a sticker that said to water pump and to heater core. I would have known this already had I not installed it first below the evaporator behind the firewall. So I made all of my connections for the heater hoses and moved the valve into the engine compartment. The routings on the hose I am sure are temporary until I get everything layed out...

76064

76065

The size of the flange on the water pump was actually 1-3/4", so the adapters I had for the radiator wouldn't work. I picked up some other hoses that had the larger adapters as well as adapter covers. There is not alot of room to run the bottom hose with the Unisteer...

76066

76067

76068

76069

76070

After getting the radiator hoses installed, I looked at my shop and it was a mess. I had tools everywhere and couldn't find a thing, so I spent the rest of the evening getting things back in order. Still trying to wrap my brain around the wiring harness and also need to install the overflow tank. Hopefully I'll get some time this week on the build.

[JOP33]

So is there a need for size overflow reservoir that FFR supplies with the kit? I am having some difficulty finding a good place to install. The manual says the firewall (I'd rather not put it there, but I have a feeling that's where it will end up) or they specify a very vague location next to/on the radiator (I don't believe I have the room with the shroud, AC condenser, etc.). I'd like to see what others have done or hear your suggestions.

Thanks

[donshapansky]

I couldn't find any other place than the firewall, I installed it first right beside the radiator and the hood hinges looked OK until I tried running the hinge to the stowed position.
7615976160

[JOP33]

Don - That was my concern as well, not to mention I thought there might be some interference with the UCA as it moved. They make an identical tank at a 10” length that would allow for a little more flexibility in mounting, but I’m not exactly sure how critical the size of the reservoir to the size of the radiator is. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks

[donshapansky]

I have found that even the current tank size is inadequate, if I top it up only to the inner tube height and drive it the burping continues until the tank is empty.

[erlihemi]

Take a look at the 35 PU pictures. I think it has a larger tank about in the position I put mine. I used a larger tank due to more water volume in my heads and I mounted it back on the firewall. After the initial "equalization" burp and vent I have run this on 90 degree days with plenty of static idling time with no "wet spots" . Glycol has more shrink and swell than plain water and running a little hotter requires more volume. Running the fan off the radiator temperature and keeping it below 175 helps also. I don't care if you want the engine at 210. Do that with the engine thermostat and sense the EFI off the manifold, but keep the radiator temp lower and half the volume issue is conquered.

[JOP33]

So the firewall positioning for the reservoir won out...

77005

I also ran the TV cable for the transmission...

77006

77007

I cleaned up the fuel line and heater hose a little with a few hose separators...

77008

77009

77010

I also installed the shifter linkage...

77011

Hope to get some more wiring done this week.

[JOP33]

I didn't get nearly as much wiring as I had hoped for completed this weekend.
Wired the neutral safety switch for the trans...

77146

Wired headlight switch, ignition & temporarily installed...

77147

Installed the inertia switch & cleaned up some of the wiring...

77148

Then had to take a break from the wiring, so I jumped to the exhaust. It's like one of those Chinese slide puzzles...

77149

Only got a quarter of the way through the exhaust, hope to have it complete along with some additional wiring later this week.

[JOP33]

I was also able to install the trans fluid dipstick...
77151

And I installed the firewall pieces of the FF pre-cut sound deadener and heat shield. I won't know about functionality until I can get this thing on the road, but as far as ease of install, I give this stuff an A+ and well worth the money as an option...

77152

77153

77154

Also, this is as far as I got with the exhaust...

77155

[duff33]

I have been following your build from the beginning and must admit your build is a class act and an inspiration. Your build is a couple of weeks ahead of mine so I check frequently. I am going to be installing a motor and transmission similar to yours, in fact the supplier even sent me pictures of yours when I was inquiring about one. Question for you - what are you using for a shifter?

[JOP33]

I appreciate the kind comments duff33 and good luck on your build. Don’t let the pretty pictures fool you though, there’s been plenty of knuckle bustin’ and cursin’ and feeling way in over my head several times (like now with the wiring)! I went with a 10” Lokar Transmount Shifter (lok-ats6aoddl). Not sure if I should have gone shorter on shifter, but I can always change the length out.

[duff33]

Thank you for the info. I just layed out my wiring and know exactly what you mean.

[JOP33]

Intent was to do some more wiring this weekend, but just couldn't bring myself to it...maybe this week. Instead I worked on getting the exhaust as far a long as I could. Not too impressed with the FFR hangers that are provided...seem to take some "contorting" to get them to work. I haven't installed them all yet as I am still debating an alternate solution.

77395

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77397

77398

77399

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[Tampa33Build]

Great photos, I started the install this weekend also. No engine yet just a loose install for now. The manual lacks a lot of detail in this area. I have an IRS but your layout pretty much matches mine. I did notice the exhaust clamps were on with the nuts facing up. One item that was stressed in the build school was to install the clamps with the nuts facing down to support removal at a later date. My front pipes were missing the clamps, FFR is sending them. I also wrapped my mufflers with heat shield.

[JOP33]

Great photos, I started the install this weekend also. No engine yet just a loose install for now. The manual lacks a lot of detail in this area. I have an IRS but your layout pretty much matches mine. I did notice the exhaust clamps were on with the nuts facing up. One item that was stressed in the build school was to install the clamps with the nuts facing down to support removal at a later date. My front pipes were missing the clamps, FFR is sending them. I also wrapped my mufflers with heat shield.

Thanks. Actually, I have one installed nuts up and one nuts down, but you are correct. Installing them nuts down (as advised at the build school) would be the preferred method to allow for future removal. I’m still trying to decide whether I’m going to stay with the factory hangers and will probably adjust. Not only good to hear from a fellow build school attendee, but I also noticed (at least in my manual) FFR has updated to state installing them nuts down as well. I’ll definitely be adding some heat shield too.

[JOP33]

I have been under the weather the last week and a half, so not a lot of progress on the build. I hope to get back at it this weekend though!

[JOP33]

I was able to get a little work in this weekend. Some of the pics are from a few weeks ago though. I'm trying to get caught back up after the weather got me down.

I had mounted my solenoid inside the firewall initially, which my gut told me not to do the whole time. On a tangent, one thing that I have learned throughout this process, is that if your not okay with something about your build (no matter how small it might be), YOU will always know it's there and if you don't make it the way you really want it to be, it will always bother you. At least that is the way I have found myself to be, I guess it is true that we are our own worst critics. Anyway back to the solenoid... I knew it was going to be cramped and WHEN it goes out, it would make for a difficult change out, but I tried it anyway...
78791

You can see from the get go what a mess it was going to be, but I was really trying to keep it off the firewall on the engine side. Things didn't look any better after adding a few wires...
78792

78793

So needless to say, to the engine side of the firewall it went and actually it didn't turn out too bad. I went ahead and added a power distribution block (probably could have gone with a smaller one) and I also went ahead and added a ground cable from the mounting tab of the solenoid directly to the chasis...
78794

78795

[RoadRacer]

if your not okay with something about your build (no matter how small it might be), YOU will always know it's there and if you don't make it the way you really want it to be, it will always bother you.

SO TRUE! I just spent a weekend taking apart the rear and swapping brakes side-to-side (with all that entails) because it bothered me. It was always staring at me!

[JOP33]

I was also able to get the trans cooler lines ran. For now I just went with the black rubber lines. I hope to go with a braided stainless set-up like some of the other builders have used, but this should get me to the go-kart stage (if I make it there:confused:).

I also tightened up the trans mount bolts and set the pinion angle. I say set, but since I have the four-link there was really not much adjustment and honestly I didn't even have to use any spacers to get may angles. I did have to get FFR to send me the 12 point bolts that attach the driveshaft to the rear end as they were not in the driveshaft box. FFR had them to me the next morning!
78796

78797

78798

I temporarily ran the battery wire to the back of the vehicle (as I am putting the battery in the trunk). I did split it for a power cut off to be installed behind the passenger seat...
78799

78800

78801

I am still working through some of the cable and wire routing. Has anyone split the fiberglass trans tunnel in two pieces? I haven't done this yet, but I have been toying around with the idea. It sure seems like it would make routing the wires and installing the tunnel a little easier. Is there something further down the line that might make this a bad decision to do so? Would appreciate input on this.
78802

[JOP33]

I cut out a temporary plate for the gauges. I went with the Legends, GPS gauges from FFR.
78803

78804

78805

I think I had mentioned previously that I wasn't to keen on FFR's exhaust hangers, I just ended up get some universal hangers from the local hot rod shop and used them. They seemed to be a little easier to bend for mounting. In the rear I just have them clamped in place until I get the body in place...
78806

78807

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78809

78810

78811

[JOP33]

This is the car as it sits right now...
78812

I am still trying to piece together the wiring portion of the build. It has been the biggest challenge for me so far and has slowed me down quite a bit, but I'm making some headway. Trying to integrate the EFI harness and the FFR wiring harness has been the challenge as the instructions (from both FFR and Holley EFI) have been a little vague with regards to meshing items up. I completely understand the reason for this as you can't spec out every option for the build. As mentioned, it's moving slow, but still moving. I had hoped for an end of the year first start, but it is looking more like end of February now. I just surpassed the year anniversary of ordering my kit and it has been a blast so far. Challenging at times, but I am reminded by my wife that it's the journey not the destination:p. Just want to thank all that helped so far and offered input. Keep peaking in as I am almost certain I have a few more mistakes in me!

Thanks

[Arrowhead]

So not to be a buzz kill, but you know don't need the relay mounted on the firewall right? Your stater has it's own relay. I know a lot of guys keep them even if they don't need them, but it's just another thing to wire but for no reason unless you are using it for another purpose than to run the starter. You can run your main battery wire directly to the starter and then run your alternator main power to it also. Just a thought.

And another thing, follow Holly's requirement to the letter about connecting the main power and ground directly to the battery. Weird stuff happens when you try and do you own thing like run it through a disconnect switch.

[JOP33]

So not to be a buzz kill, but you know don't need the relay mounted on the firewall right? Your stater has it's own relay. I know a lot of guys keep them even if they don't need them, but it's just another thing to wire but for no reason unless you are using it for another purpose than to run the starter. You can run your main battery wire directly to the starter and then run your alternator main power to it also. Just a thought.

And another thing, follow Holly's requirement to the letter about connecting the main power and ground directly to the battery. Weird stuff happens when you try and do you own thing like run it through a disconnect switch.

Agree on the solenoid, but after speaking with Engine Factory they suggested using the solenoid. Since they built up the engine I went with their advice. Also, to be clear, the EFI and fuel pump bypass the disconnect and run straight to the battery.
Thanks

[erlihemi]

Agree on the solenoid, but after speaking with Engine Factory they suggested using the solenoid. Since they built up the engine I went with their advice. Also, to be clear, the EFI and fuel pump bypass the disconnect and run straight to the battery.
Thanks

There are other issues than just running the "big wire" to the starter in some instances. For example if you run a tremec neutral safety or some other low current clutch switch etc you may want the "Ford" solenoid to step up current to the starter solenoid if so equipped. I tried not using the Ford solenoid on the firewall and going directly to the starter but missed the robust flywheel engagement one too many times. I do have the battery cable directly on the starter, but needed more awg for solenoid to kick it in my application.

Results may vary...

[JOP33]

Still working through the routing and wiring, what a mess...right!
79875

I went ahead and cut the trans tunnel down the center. It allows me the flexibility to remove the individual sides as I try to accommodate all the wires. I think I am also going to "C" cut the tunnel on both sides up toward the firewall, push in as far as I can and then re-glass. This will give me at least another 1" to 1-1/2" foot room on both sides and I should still have plenty of clearance for the wires to travel...
79876

I have been in contact with FFR and Holley over the last few days and they have been able to help advise me on some of the questions I had about the wiring. It seems like I do about 3 hours of reading or research then 10 minutes of wiring and then back to the research. After talking to them I will be able to run the fan off of the EFI computer actually pretty easily and then I can change the cut in/off temps in the controller.

I know they are just temporary, but I don't think I have ever used this many zip ties on anything! They are all over the floor. I can't seem to buy enough:).

[donshapansky]

It's looking great Jamie, I remember the same issues with wiring and so much rerouting. Eventually you will get through it and then the teething issues when something doesn't work right. When you test the circuits for the first time, I recall somebody on the forum suggested using a fuse holder with a 5 amp fuse placed between the positive terminal of the battery and the battery lead to prevent damage by sacrificing the fuse instead of a component. Then use an ammeter in the same position with the key off to check for excessive battery drain. I had no short issues but I found .25 amp current drain that was traced to the alternator field wire, the Honda alternator does not accept uncontrolled field power, so I had to use a relay to control the field power. After the changes I found the drain was .015 amps, which has proven acceptable.

[wrp]

Fantastic meeting you and your wife yesterday. Look forward to seeing your build in person

[JOP33]

I spent the majority of the week focused on getting the Gauges, EFI and a couple accessory fuse blocks connected. The Speedhut Legends gauges (option from FFR) with the GPS eliminated a lot of the factory wiring. For the most part I didn't use the entire sending unit harness or most of the dash harness.

Gone entirely...
80679

It's funny how at the beginning of the week I had to run to the auto parts store for wire, but by the end of the week I had plenty to pull from...
80680

I ended up using quick connects for the time being. Once I confirm everything works as it should, I intend to go back and solder the rest of the connections, heat shrink and shield...
80681

This is the help I got...
80682

I added a couple accessory fuse blocks to the passenger side firewall. It gives me (4) dedicated 12v Constants and (5) 12v Ignition Switched all fused. I will eventually cover the plate with an access panel and then of course heat shield, sound deadener and carpet. I lose a little foot room because of it, but it is still more room than what is on the driver's side with the pedals. I know it looks a mess, but my focus has been getting connections made at this point and labeling wires. I will clean it up when I start tucking (cramming) everything back in...
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I still have quite a bit of connections to make...the fuel pump, the kill switch, the inertia switch (I move it to the trunk), the A/C-Heater (back to that in a minute) and of course the battery. I probably left out a few things, but you get the idea. I won't bore you with anymore wiring pics as you can do ten hours worth of work, take twenty pictures and it all still looks the same:eek:. I know it may not look like it, but I really did make some headway in the wiring this week. What I found for me was that the short spurts of time during a normal week that I could focus on the wiring, just ended up frustrating me more. I would spend and hour or so figuring out where I left off and then do about thirty minutes of "new" work. The next night is was the same all over again. I ended up taking a week off just to focus on the wiring and it worked out well for me. Of course the test will be when I try to crank this thing for the first time, so we'll have to see. I knew going in that the wiring was going to present the greatest challenge for me and so far it hasn't disappointed!

So I had mentioned wiring the A/C earlier. I am currently trying to get some additional information from the third-party vendor that I purchased the unit from, so I am sure some things will become clearer to me. Ultimately, I think my challenge has been integrating the EFI with the A/C and fan. The bolt on EFI system has allowances for A/C shut off @ WOT (disengages the clutch at wide open throttle), increasing idle when the clutch engages and also controls the cut-in/cut-out temps on the fan which is all great, but it's relay after relay after relay! I am exaggerating it slightly, but it has become a little confusing to me in trying to keep it all straight. So I pulled off the wiring for a bit and started working on the routing of the A/C lines and the location for the drier. This may sound stupid, but doesn't the trinary switch work as a safety? So is there a need for an A/C shut off and a trinary switch? Maybe I am misunderstanding the concept of them both. I'll work through it all in time. Meanwhile I was able to get a few things resolved with A/C line connections...
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I am going to change out a few of the fittings and nothing is crimped yet, but I think I should be ok here. It looks a little tighter in the picture than it actually is (running lines under the pivot point on the upper control arm), but I really didn't want to route the lines all the way down under the chassis either. I am prepared to change this if I need to, but I think I will leave it this way until after go-karting...
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I also decided on this location for the drier. I am going to fab a bracket that grabs the diameter of the drier and then cups the bottom holding it in place. I can mount the bracket through its bottom plate to the lower square tube. Just not a lot of qood ways to mount the drier to the round tubes (that I found)...
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Hope to get a little more time in wiring tomorrow before getting back to work on Monday.

[DaveS53]

The trinary switch protects against over and under pressure conditions and turns the fan on before the condenser pressure gets too high. Protection against excessive compressor speed must come from some other source that monitors engine speed. You should have a fan relay that reacts to the engine temp sensor. The ground signal from the trinary switch should go to the same terminal on the fan relay. That way, only one relay is needed to control the fan.

If I had chrome plated accessories, I'd use stainless steel braided hose for the AC lines. I used them anywhere they show.

[JOP33]

The trinary switch protects against over and under pressure conditions and turns the fan on before the condenser pressure gets too high. Protection against excessive compressor speed must come from some other source that monitors engine speed. You should have a fan relay that reacts to the engine temp sensor. The ground signal from the trinary switch should go to the same terminal on the relay.

If I had chrome plated accessories, I'd use stainless steel braided hose for the AC lines. I used them anywhere they show.

Thanks Dave, that seems to make sense now, pressure vs. RPM's on the clutch. And your correct the same relay is used for the trinary (fan relay). Then an additional relay is required for the EFI A/C Kickoff and then another for the Idle up. I probably will opt for the braided stainless at some point as they do look much better, but for now the black rubber will have to do.

Thanks

[JOP33]

I was able to get a little more work completed this weekend. I took a little break away from the wiring to complete the hose runs on the AC...
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I fashioned a very simple "cradle" to hold the drier in place. It is just a piece of 6061 2-1/2" Sch 40 Pipe carved up accordingly and lightly polished. I ended up adding a screw going through the back to round tube as well...
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I pulled the fuse on the AC, since it won't be charged for a while, and taped it to my white board so I don't forget later:rolleyes:, and yes that is a dime glued above it. When I started my build I glued one to the white board to assure myself that I'd never spend our last dime on this project...it's just a friendly reminder to myself every night when I turn the lights out...
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I then jumped back into some wiring. I needed to tie the trinary switch into the Fan Relay. This was no fun, as I wished I had done this prior to mounting the fuse block, but I was able to get it done. I also needed to wire relays for the AC Shutdown and the AC Idle Up for the EFI system. Knocked both of these out as well. I still need to route and connect the wires for the fuel pump, connect the kill switch and start playing with the battery mounting a little bit. I definitely feel as though I'm on the downhill run of the wiring now, but I guess the true test will be first start. I hope to be to that point within the next month. I had jumped around a little, so I still have to install the accelerator pedal, do a preset on the TV cable for the transmission, install the e-brake and then try wrangle the wires in and get the trans tunnel fit up along with many other things that will pop-up between now and then...but we'll see how things go!

[wrp]

Nice work on the drier.

[JOP33]

I had every intention of getting further along this weekend than I did, but found myself chasing rabbits...and everyone knows if you chase two rabbits, you'll catch neither one! I had a plan to finish the wiring on the fuel pump, put the battery in and install the kill switch...a fairly simple plan (and not too ambitious). Well the A/C vent hoses some how caught my eye and so I thought I could make pretty quick work of doing some initial layout...and I did, but it wasn't part of the plan...

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So after that you'd thought that I'd learned my lesson, but no. I really wanted to see if that rat nest of wires was going to be able to fit behind the trans tunnel and with how much modification. I should mention, that my intention was to leave the wire connections long and temporary (connectors), then once I start the engine for the first time and confirm that everything works as it should, I will go back, trim the wires down, solder where applicable and apply some final shielding to the wires. One additional saving grace is that I am planning to install a console that I purchased, on top of the trans tunnel that will ultimately hide a significant amount of wiring from the dash to the tunnel. Meaning I hope to have less of a rat's nest to hide and more to hide it with:rolleyes:. So I installed one side of the tunnel...

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And did have to do some mods to the flange at the firewall...

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I will ultimately be making some additional modifications to "squeeze" the tunnel in closer to the transmission to allow for a little more foot room. I am also thinking about cutting the radius out of the tunnel from the shifter back and making more of a chamfered shape as after I sat in the seat for a few minutes I noticed that my leg will be resting right on that radius'd area. I'll just have to see as we move forward. I went ahead and placed the driver side of the tunnel as well to see how it fit. Not as many mods there, but will have to make some of the same changes as mentioned previously about the passenger side, oh and also figure out how to weather proof the holes I cut near where the additional relays and fuses are as well...

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So as you can see I got very little accomplished and absolutely nothing that I had intended to. Good thing is that I am not on a time-line (well I am, but I pretty much blew that back in December) and there is always the next week!

[JOP33]

I had originally intended to go with the Foose Legends wheels, but I have been re-thinking my choices. Here are my top picks, would love to get some feedback:confused:...

Option 1...
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Option 2...
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Option 3...
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Option 4...
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Option 5...
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Option 6...
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Option 7...
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Option 8...
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[RoadRacer]

depends if you want bling or not. I prefer not, so my top pick is 1, then 7. But blinged, I'd pick 4, then 8.

[1932]

AS for getting off plan, if it moves car forward all's good!

[JOP33]

AS for getting off plan, if it moves car forward all's good!

Spoken like someone with experience! Thanks 1932 for helping me keep it all in perspective.

[wrp]

One of my favorite musical books was from Earl Scruggs. On learning an instrument he recommends to push forward until you it the brick wall then lay it down and walk away for a while. I found that to be pretty insightful.

[duff33]

There is no question you can go out to work on one thing and get side tracked and do something totally different. And when you are stumped, walk away and think about it. But all progress is good!

[JOP33]

Started working through a checklist this weekend to prepare for first start:eek:. Went back through the header bolts, applied threadloc and torqued to specs. Since I am also running the GPS gauges and the Sniper EFI doesn't use the speed sensor, I picked up a speedometer sensor plug for the AOD at the local Top of the Mountain parts store. They didn't have one that specifically said that it would fit the AOD, but from what I saw I thought it might and even more so after bickering back and forth with the associate on whether he should have them bring it out so I could measure it...I definitely wanted to prove him wrong! Fit nicely, so I did:p! While I was there I also picked up an O2 Sensor plug. Both of the down pipes had places for the O2 Sensor from the EFI to install, but it only requires the one, so I capped the driver side...

Speedo Sensor Plug...
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O2 Sensor Plug...
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Hope to start adding fluids in the next day or so.

[JOP33]

Purchased this little gizmo off the internet...
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Seemed to work like a charm. Pulled a vacuum using shop air with no decay in pressure...
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Allows you to then turn the valve and pull fluid back into the system...
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I plan on getting the radiator, transmission and engine filled with fluids this weekend. Then install the battery. My intentions at this point are to try for a first start next weekend.

[duff33]

You are going to need about 3 gallons of anti-freeze to fill the radiator, cought me by surprise on hoe much it holds.

[AJT '33]

You are going to need about 3 gallons of anti-freeze to fill the radiator, cought me by surprise on hoe much it holds.

Can you provide a link? This looks like it will make life easier. TY!

[JOP33]

Duff you were right on the nose...just a sip under 3 gallons.

Here is the link AJT...

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&ipp=48&Ntt=Performance+Tool+Universal+Coolant+System+Vacu um+Purge+and+Refill+Kit%2C+Model+W89734

Worked well and is far less expensive than some of the others.

[Dodgeman]

This is what I used,

UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit bought from Amazon and it works great.

Bob

[JOP33]

So fluids are in with the exception of fuel and no leaks so far. How do most of you handle fuel during a first start? Just put a couple gallons in the tank? I am running an EFI.

[JOP33]

Connected the battery for the first time today. Right out of the gate my signal indicator lights are lighting in the off and accessory position...
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So I need to figure out what is causing this, but this is the first time I had seen these gauges lit up...I do like them...
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[RoadRacer]

So fluids are in with the exception of fuel and no leaks so far. How do most of you handle fuel during a first start? Just put a couple gallons in the tank? I am running an EFI.

That's what I did, I wanted to check the fuel system during first start.

[TDSapp]

That's what I did, I wanted to check the fuel system during first start.

If it was me I would start with about a half gallon. If there are leaks in the line I would not want to try and catch a full two gallons of fuel. So a little gas and then turn the key on to get the fuel pump to prime fuel lines and then start looking for leaks. Then on first "run" add a gallon or two of gas.

[JOP33]

Planning on first start tomorrow...

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Stay tuned!

[donshapansky]

Good for you, it will be the next step to see what you have done come to life, it is a milestone to be recorded!

[JOP33]

Well, it is only fitting that Star Mobile 1's first attempt at life be met with some adversity...So for the first start yesterday I crossed my fingers, hoped for the best and expected the worst (much like every Cowboy fan starts each season) and like the most recent season, I was disappointed...I had a no-start! Not all bad news though, fuel went in the tank, no fuel leaks, fuel pump worked fine, EFI ECM powered up just no fire to the starter (at least that is my assumption at this point as I go back through the wiring). Nothing, just the whine of the fuel pump and silence. I have a couple thoughts on what it might be and the neutral safety switch leads the pack followed by solenoid wired wrong or possibly a bad ground. As for now I am going back through and isolating each wire and testing for continuity and power and confirming the expected result (something I should have done more intensely the first time around). Still hopeful to have things resolved in a few days (or at least the next week) and have a video to post. Just a small set back at this point :eek:.

[RoadRacer]

don't forget the clutch safety (has to be wired together if clutch not complete) or the inertia switch ;)

[duff33]

Double check at the plugs for the wiring harness's, I found crossed wires at the plugs, must have been assembled wrong by Ron Frances. Easy to check because they are all color coded, blue to blue, green to green etc.

[JOP33]

Thanks guys for the input...still chasing down a few things. In the meantime I went ahead and made up a charcoal fuel vapor filter. I'll have to see how it works out...

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