Making progress on my build...

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

As for the view out the rear window, with the changes you've made, I would guess you'd about have to go with a dash-mounted rear view mirror. The one that's currently mounted to your windshield...my guess is that it's probably mounted way too high to see anything but the engine compartment? We don't normally even install the rear view mirror in the GTM's we build because they take up way too much of your visibility out of the "mail slot". Of the ones that we have installed the mirror, it's actually quite useful to see what's behind you. In a normal GTM build, what they need is a mirror about half the size of the one that comes with the kit.

As for the air scoops.....I like the 2 on the roof. I don't think that shape is going to look good in the quarter-window area....I think it will look more like you've installed intake snorkels or something.....just my opinion.

[beeman]

Well I don't know if we've solved this yet, funny how we can all picture different outcomes and have our own opinions on what would look best... I really appreciate everyone's feedback though. I understand that it's hard to build something that everyone would say looks great, but I don't want to build something that everyone says looks bad! So I'm encouraged, believe it or not, that there isn't necessarily a concensus on the best way to do the intake(s). I think I'll get the body a little further along and mock up a few options and get some more feedback from you guys.
Snuck out earlier and fiberglassed the previous cuts I made in the roof and c-pillar regions. Next I'll create the fiberglass body panels in the 1/4 window area, then move forward to the doors, then the front.

[beeman]

Shane, you had me wondering, here is a picture of the stock mirror location, not bad rear visibility from driving position

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180202/zrgezpip.jpg

Moving the mirror up to the halo opens up the windshield and still gives what seems to be good rear visibility. Obviously the firewall window isn't in yet

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180202/br4icbtd.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

I have the mirror above the halo and the rear-view is decent.

Having the additional forward view is a better trade-off.

[beeman]

Thanks Tino, I'll see how it looks with the firewall in but it's probably the better option.
Change of pace, fabricating underbody aluminum for a nice flat belly, then get the radiator mounted and sealed air tight.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180202/frzd33ci.jpg

[beeman]

So the plan is aluminum belly pan full width of fascia, tapering in to frame near LCA mounts along the rear angled 1/2" tubing. I don't think I can safely put a belly pan under the LCAs, I think suspension droop would blow through the belly pan there, right?
FYI, no air will enter my fascia without being completely contained and channeled to the radiator, hvac, and brakes. Just starting to fab up here.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180202/7d6vp3ln.jpg

[beeman]

I love 1/2" square. Lightweight and solid as a rock. Fascia, belly pan, and splitter will mount to it.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180203/pa65tyj4.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180203/ryl48qbw.jpg

[beeman]

Got the front belly pan finished, turned out great. Will trim around the tires to give them plenty of space.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180207/d6sueeec.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180207/uixlelc4.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180207/iewovz4g.jpg

So I was playing around with a Honda radiator I had laying around and channeled Fraser D... Would give me a really nice front trunk! Does anyone know what radiators he ended up using??

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180207/lc5zjulc.jpg

From this:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170204/v2ltebmh.jpg

To this:
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180207/c2k6t8q9.jpg

[Taz Rules]

Haven't had much chance to look in, but I'm getting caught up.

LOVE your build. The creativity is inspiring.
As to the vents, I would go with the two in the quarter windows, but I would also mount a rear view camera on the roof (maybe in a small shark fin?) and use an LCD display in the cockpit as opposed to a mirror.

A tip when designing... remember the golden ratio 1.6:1
Almost every professional designer/photographer/artist uses this ratio, whether consciously or unconsciously. It's prevalent in virtually all major advertising graphics for a reason.

[beeman]

Thanks, Taz!

I have a big hole behind the B- pillar since I moved the cabin forward. And the new cabin contour is different than the sides of the FFR roof.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180123/y5v75hn4.jpg

Time to address it. Slid the body back to get it out of the way. To re-create the contour, I bought some 1/16" abs sheet which conforms nicely without collapsing. Hot glued it to the roll bar and B- pillar.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180215/g8ysg8vv.jpg

Gave it a coat of wax and applied some mat. We'll see how it turns out.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180215/e8trbmpn.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180215/uodez3wd.jpg

[Jkviper]

I love all the custom fab work and when a concept comes together. It should look great.

[beeman]

I love all the custom fab work and when a concept comes together. It should look great.

Thanks!

Snuck out to the shop to lay up side 'b'.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180216/3pbm7khd.jpg

[TheBabyBadger]

GREAT BUILD! LOVE that you're taking it to yet ANOTHER level. AWESOME. Major props for being self-taught, too. That takes some serious ambition. I wish I had my skill set with you shop space and tools, wow! One day... haha.

Scoops: The roof is pretty essential to a low drag coefficient, I would mount on quarters and leave the roof slicker than a wet fish. LOVE the "brain's blown out" remove-able roof, as they call it on Supras here in Northern CA.

Front Bumper: Doesn't closing the center render your hood relief/vent useless? That center vent and hood relief provide TONS of downforce to the front of the vehicle. If air has no where to go, and doesn't provide down force, the front end of your car will become a giant wing at speed... which is bad.

Subscribed and looking forward to more!

[beeman]

Brian,
Thanks for the encouraging words!
I was actually just out there staring at that darn hood vent... If I end up with dual radiators, it needs to be removed.
I agree that the vent is absolutely needed in the typical build, and I will keep it if I do a single central radiator. The only role of a hood vent is to get pressurized air out from underneath so that it doesn't cause lift. If I do the twin radiators, no air will be allowed under the hood, it will only go into the wheel wells.
Good luck with the Coupe build! I love those things!

[TheBabyBadger]

Very good point! LOVE all the creativity in your build! Looking forward to seeing more! Feel free to drop in and check mine out once it begins. Kit arrives middle of May! CAN'T WAIT!!! (Link in my sig in case you didn't already notice).

[beeman]

Diet time! Where is the best place to put the ECU/PCM? Any reason not to put it in the cockpit?

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180224/ldiom38n.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

If you're using a C5 donor harness, you might as well put the ECU where FFR designed.....above the RH fuel tank in the engine compartment.

[beeman]

I think you're right Shane. I was wondering if I should protect it from engine bay heat, but I probably wouldn't have enough wire slack to run it through the firewall anyways...

[MLC_LS1]

Lookin good! Impressive fabrication skills!

[beeman]

Lookin good! Impressive fabrication skills!
Thanks!

Got the engine and tranny in! One of the Lingenfelter guys kindly gave me a hand. His first time doing an LS/porsche hybrid, but he did work on an LS/'Lamborghini' hybrid in the.... Falcon F7! He found his way around the g96 pretty quickly for his first time seeing one. I think someone asked me earlier in this thread why I went with LPE over a crate motor from GM...
How many bolts hold the porsche tranny mount to the GTM subframe? Looks like one central bolt in the build manual, but the mount on my g96 has offset holes for 2 bolts?
I didn't receive axles with my kit if anyone has a pair they want to sell.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180327/wkaee6u3.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180327/9revaau9.jpg

[beeman]

Mocking up the Kooks exhaust system. Is there a decent amount of up/down play in the couplings to center get the exhaust centered in the cutouts? Can anyone tell me their distance between the gearbox subframe rear 1" tube and the underside of the exhaust?

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180328/gd8miy7y.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180328/62i5f25n.jpg

[dallas_]

I can't help you with those measurements but I will say that the exhaust is looking killer!

[RumRunner]

Loosening the band clamps at the x-pipe and the flange bolts between the cat pipes and header gives a good amount of play at the exhaust tips. You should be able to arrange the tips where you need them. For me, the bottom of the passenger side muffler (the only one I measured) sits nearly exactly 1" above the 1" subframe tubing.

83202

-Michael

[beeman]

Dallas - yes the Kooks is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship!
Michael - thanks for measuring that, it will get me in the ballpark!

I'm not thrilled about the FFR supplied alternator mount. Just ordered GM parts to install the CTS-V alternator in the CTS-V location, there's a great thread about this mod elsewhere.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

If I never emailed you my official installation instructions for the Kooks system, shoot me an email and I'll send a copy your way. It doesn't necessarily answer any of the questions you're asking here, but might help with getting it positioned where you need it.

[beeman]

Thanks, Shane! Sending you a PM.

[beeman]

Modifying the g96 gearbox subframe. Added a new 1" crossbar. Then will add support bars like the yellow lines in the 2nd picture. Does that seem beefy enough?
Will finish welding between the tubes after I get some welds done underneath.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180329/palk3po3.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180329/rhvlljg7.jpg

[beeman]

Spent the last few hours fabricating the g96 gearbox subframe. Recycled the FFR mounts. Turned out awesome. On to the next step!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180329/4472e43h.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180329/ebmxave8.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180329/9rngfnqh.jpg

[beeman]

A lot of guys are doing a 'firewall forward' mod on their roadsters, why not try it on the GTM. If I'm going to run coolant lines outside the cockpit, I need space between the gas tanks and the firewall. Plus I can add some much needed firewall insulation. I think 3 or so inches at the bottom to make plenty of room for coolant lines, tapering to 1-2 inches at the top should be sufficient. Thoughts? What type of insulation could I use? Maybe a thin aluminum false firewall on the engine bay side sandwiching the insulation.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180331/26q76e5x.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180331/jlii35hr.jpg

My goal is to fab HVAC into the yellow area. Heater would be easy, hoping to squeeze an a/c evaporator in there too!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180331/ytir9mgy.jpg

[dallas_]

I like the idea.
Even 1/4" of air gap makes a big difference in the transfer of heat. Extra insulation will only help.
I use EZ Cool, but there are many different options.

[beeman]

Dallas -
I bought a big roll of some kind of insulation years ago that I used on my roadster and I really like it. I have plenty of it left to line the whole GTM. It could be EZ Cool, I can't remember. It is the stuff on top in this picture, so I think it's EZ Cool... But the core material is like a fine green bubble wrap just like in this picture, but the EZ Cool product page says it's a foam core? Maybe they've changed it?

http://larry.wvnet.edu/~van/pics/100113-14-j.jpg

[dallas_]

That looks like EZ Cool.

[beeman]

Happy Easter, everyone!

My body does not want to line up with the wheels due to the gearbox subframe rear 1" tube limiting how far I can move the body forward.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/qx2hvup6.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/wa5jdjxs.jpg

The problem is symmetrical. I need to move the body forward 15mm to even out my gaps. My subframe rests at its lowest level, ie sits where it's supposed to without the bolts tightened down. I could see the subframe shifting downward over a bump in the road if you try to clamp it into place by tightening down the bolts somewhere within the degrees of freedom of the mounting ears.

So I need to move the rear 1" tube forward 15mm.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/4tyjiewk.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/8yemrrxi.jpg

Cutting marks scored and cut.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/ykwqf9p4.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/lmzw6hsr.jpg

[beeman]

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/3tdd3r4u.jpg

That's more better

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/3ezalfzr.jpg

Driver's side still a little egg-y shaped, but hey, it's Easter!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/hmqrcmiw.jpg

[beeman]

I wanted a little more support for the body so I created a support bracket from some angle iron I had laying around. Bolted to the gearbox subframe rather than welded so the subframe can be removed with the body in place. Will pad the part that touches the body with adhesive weatherstripping.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/okzzpoe5.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/pd4paqr6.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180402/9q3c7eva.jpg

[Shoeless]

I like it!!! Damn I wish I could weld, that’s the one skill I’m lacking in. Thankfully I have a local guy willing to come over and work at my place.

[beeman]

I like it!!! Damn I wish I could weld, that’s the one skill I’m lacking in. Thankfully I have a local guy willing to come over and work at my place.

I went to Harbor Freight years ago and bought a 110v Flux wire welder, they are about $100. They work great but the welds are fairly ugly. Watch some YouTube videos and practice. If you enjoy it (it's one of the most enjoyable things I tinker with in the shop) upgrade to a decent gas MIG unit (my Hobart was maybe $600). If you can weld, your options are pretty much endless.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Harbor Freight has just come out with a whole new line of mig welders. Looks like they have pretty good reviews on them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/migmax-140-welder-with-120-volt-input-63616.html#reviews

That's their cheapest "nice" welder. Yes, they do have some REALLY cheap flux-core welders....but if you're just learning...I would say that it would be pretty difficult to tell if you were learning anything or not with a cheap flux core welder. I'm not a professional welder by any means, but I can make a pretty nice looking weld. With the cheap flux core, no matter what you do, it looks terrible. A good mig welder was one of the very first things I bought when I started this business of putting cars together.......at the time, my Hobart 180 was about the best you could buy in an entry-level 230V welder and I think it was just under $700. Looks like that new HF one I linked to above is probably just as good and more versatile than mine....looks like it has at least 10 voltage setting where my old Hobart only has 4....and it would be nice to have settings in between a lot of times.

Welding is one of those things where it just takes practice. If you had a friend who could weld to get you started and maybe guide you thru for a half hour or so to show you what to do, after that, the best thing you can do is just get a bunch of scrap pieces of steel and go at it so you get a feel for it.

[beeman]

Good points, Shane. I have seen ads for the new HF welders but haven't looked into them since I like my Hobart...
I see the cheapo flex core welder as a way to get into the game for little cost. Good way to learn how to control the puddle, work the settings, etc. But by all means if you are convinced that you will be an amateur welder for the long run, get a gas mig unit.

[beeman]

Getting the shifter mounted. The CMS billet shifter has an upper (removable) plate that sits on the top of the diverging 1" chassis backbone. I was thinking 'crap, with my seating position moved forward, I'll need a different mounting plate'. But actually if I move the shifter forward to where I want it, it sits nicely recessed in between the 1" tubes. So I'll just weld some mounting tabs in. I really like the billet look of the shifter, I may leave the guts exposed. I'm running cooling outside of the cockpit, so I may actually leave the backbone skeleton exposed without aluminum side paneling. All I need is some paneling on top for an arm rest. I think it will make the cockpit seem bigger. I'd cover the tubes in Alcantara or something...

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180406/s8lfd56g.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180406/6kfrfchm.jpg

[beeman]

Time to address the driver's side of the backbone before I mount the shifter. While I have full function of the steering wheel and new pedal locations, I don't like that my knee is touching the backbone. I'm concerned about it interfering with an emergent gas-to-brake movement. I'll modify it a little bit to give me another inch or two of room. My FIA style door bars are also lending some assistance to the rigidity of the chassis through the backbone region.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180407/mlqyovli.jpg

Here's my mock up, I love the extra knee room! I think with a crossbar I should be nearly as rigid as before.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180407/fy8hn4qc.jpg

[Shoeless]

You guys make some good points on the welding and with HF offering some more versitle units, it may be the right time to start looking into it.

Nice work on the extra leg room.

[beeman]

Trying to decide whether to mount the shifter on top of the 1" tubes or beneath (1" lower). I'm thinking lower, probably going to run a shift boot after all, this aluminum scuffs easily...

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180408/42lzzqxe.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180408/5vrihjvv.jpg

I must say, this knob makes me feel a little excited (in a completely heterosexual way of course)! Something about seeing the shifter in there... Getting closer!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180408/bj7tx5kh.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180409/mtuok7cp.jpg

[beeman]

Ok, time to address the body now that the rear end is where it should be.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180408/3bzdnlm6.jpg

[beeman]

I was in a situation where the front fenders and hood are free floating since they've been cut up.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180411/hg62enad.jpg

So I made some mounting supports/'trunk deepeners' that match the contour of the hood. The fenders will hard mount to these supports, and the hood will rest on flanges when it's closed.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180411/r2pdnzwg.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180411/s93nayp3.jpg

[beeman]

Driver's side fender support/mount tacked in. Now my fender is set, time to finish the driver's door. I might be able to avoid fender vents, will vent from rear of fender, I'll see if that's enough outflow since radiator outflow will be here as well.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180413/ysh75p4g.jpg

Got my heater, $80 shipped from the Far East. Has twin centrifugal fans instead of weak 'computer fans' like most aftermarket heaters. Probably initially forego a/c, not as necessary as a heater in my climate. Just pop out the targa on hot days. Fits great right where I was hoping.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180413/q8lvdqwk.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180413/vui6e88f.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180413/rfqgr53e.jpg

[beeman]

Finishing up the front end, with the body cut up I'm removing any asymmetry. Going for equal angles and measurements within 1mm side to side. The gaps above the headlights will be blended in, the gaps below them will be filled with intakes to the brake cooling ducts. Getting ready to hinge the front trunk, 350z roadster trunk hinges, cool cam-like lift motion.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180429/9gdponrt.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180429/bb8rvbci.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180429/34tbs6m2.jpg

[beeman]

Snuck home for lunch, more fiberglass grinding bit by bit to tie the fender into the windshield..

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180430/d7mzj4hg.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180430/4twnw5qd.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180430/pu6fghys.jpg

[beeman]

A little break from the GTM. Taking the roadster to Putnam Park this weekend, changing fluids and pads...

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180508/b62y3ttn.jpg

[Keith1]

Beeman, you are the MacGyver of the GTM!

[beeman]

Beeman, you are the MacGyver of the GTM!

I HAVE gone through a lot of duct tape!

I may have the modified radiators next week, will get them mounted up and ducted, then finish the front end and trunk.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That is an overwhelming amount of fabrication!! Sort of makes me wish I had the time to do stuff like that.....

[beeman]

That is an overwhelming amount of fabrication!! Sort of makes me wish I had the time to do stuff like that.....

That's the problem we all have - not enough time in a day!

Still feeling a little vulnerable in a side impact situation. Tacked in some scrap tubing, really gives me a lot more metal between my left shoulder and a 4k pound bumper. Doesn't make getting in/out that much more difficult. Thoughts?

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180509/u6fmo8wp.jpg

I think the GTM in general is not overly photogenic. Meaning I always think that while the GTM looks pretty darn good in pictures, the GTM's I see in person look 100x better. I think that photos don't capture the sleekness, the curves, the personality of the car that a walk-around gives you. It needs to be seen in 3 dimensions. I think my concoction suffers a little bit from that as well, I'm having trouble taking good photos that capture what I'm seeing in the shop. I think the design is working well.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180509/cpatbmgr.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180509/7ulaunrv.jpg

Yep, that's at ride height. Plenty of room for suspension travel for off-road excursions...for now! :cool:

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180509/bxub36aj.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I would say that is a "completely your call" thing. Looks like you have the main roll cage right there at the B-pillar, so it would take a pretty specific set of circumstances for that new diagonal tube to be the difference between serious injury/death or walking away. If you were building this as a track car, I'd like to have it there. For a street car?.....not sure.

[TDSapp]

would take a pretty specific set of circumstances for that new diagonal tube to be the difference between serious injury/death or walking away.


Shane,

I don't know what streets Beeman will be driving on but here in Texas I would like that bar being there a bit more. He already said that it was going to be setting lower and that will put him eye level with the bumper of most trucks around here. That would mean if being hit on the side there is a chance that the bumper of that truck is going to go right over the lower part of the roll cage.

I have a buddy here with a Lotus Europa and if the ride height is anything like it... When riding in his car you are eye level with the lug nuts on the truck next to you. Makes you realize how small you really are.


Does anyone have photos of a GTM in a parking lot with trucks parked on both sides. I saw some photos like that with a Cobra type vehicle and it really makes the car look very small.

[crash]

FYI...after my only big "incident" on track where a BMW T boned me in the drivers door of the PDG GTM, well, actually JUST behind the drivers door, I have been trying to come up with a "safer mouse trap". I have thought about door bars IN the doors that would engage something on the main cage, but the flip side of that is that it could make it much more difficult to get out if needed after an incident. I am likely to put titanium plate on the door bars and also an impact absorbing composite and foam "crash box" in both doors, but beyond that...I am still just considering.

The crash can be seen here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXZCpQ-GkI

You've come this far with fab work, I think I would add it.

[beeman]

Mike, I remember seeing that video. An angular impact at track speeds is every bit as energetic as a T-bone at street speeds when you look at the speed vectors.
Before I tacked in that bar, I had the same mindset of beefing up the bar in the door, but that adds weight to the hinged structure which stresses it more, and more importantly you are relying on the latch to not fail in the impact. With that new bar tacked in, I immediately felt a warm fuzzy feeling of "hey, I might survive getting drilled on my door!" I'll play around with the specifics, but now that I have sat in the cockpit with that bar, I don't want to be in the cockpit WITHOUT that bar. Will just have to clearance the door card for it, doesn't affect power window or other mechanisms.

[beeman]

Received my modified (thanks so much for all of your help, Dave!) Honda radiators yesterday, got out to the shop for a few minutes to drop in the driver's side. Should be good to go, will get them mounted and ducted and run the coolant lines as well.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180514/zrrgo8jj.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180514/oj9xrsko.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180514/5clk5wgl.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

I've been away for too long. It seems like you're making great progress! The side profile doesn't seem as radical as I'd imagined
from your photo renderings. I can't wait to see this GTMR2 come together. :cool:

[beeman]

Slowly but surely, Tino!

When I made the front belly pan, I didn't pay enough attention to the underbody airfoil and actually created a bit of a 'zig-zag' in the underbody. FFR actually did the right thing under the car, the flat underbody isn't completely flat from front to back, there is an upslope to the belly pan that starts around the footbox. This gives the underbody a generic airfoil shape. I didn't pay attention to this and made my belly pan flat to the ground rather than continuing the forward upslope of the belly pan. You can see the mistake here :

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180519/yp3sqt3z.jpg

Here it is after correcting the error :

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180519/8urtrd2z.jpg

So the smooth underbody gives minimal resistance. But more importantly, downforce (or more accurately low pressure or 'suction') can be created by a diffuser effect. A completely flat underbody can provide this by running rake on the chassis. The gradually increasing distance between the underbody and the road creates a negative pressure that "sucks" the car down, offsetting some of the lift created by the bodywork. This can be accentuated by a diffuser at the rear of the car.

The GTM as delivered incorporates a rear carbon fiber diffuser, but I haven't looked at it yet on my build. I am concerned that the angle of the diffuser may be too steep which would cause airflow detachment and greatly hurt the diffuser effect. But this can be corrected by lowering the angle if that's the case. Another thing is that the maximal "suction" created by a diffuser occurs around the area that the diffuser begins to angle upwards. On the GTM, this is around the gearbox, so you are creating downforce at the rear of the car that already has a 60% rear weight bias. Downforce anywhere is desirable, but wouldn't it be nice to move that maximal suction to the front half of the car? Chassis rake accomplishes this to some degree, but it's not as efficient as moving the diffuser entry point forward.

So it's nice that the GTM chassis has this front "upslope" that starts around the footbox. By continuing this upslope to the very front of the car, ideally to the bottom edge of a front splitter device, you are creating an airfoil.

So ideally you will run the chassis rake so that this front "upslope" is level with the road surface, causing the underbody behind this point near the footbox to slope up gradually from that point to the rear end of the car. You are essentially making the rear 2/3 of the car a great big diffuser, with the maximum low pressure / "suction" at the level of the footbox, right where these cars need it.

So pay attention to the bottom of your car!

Here's a couple of images from "Competition Car Aerodynamics" (great book!):

This first image shows 2 car underbodies with 2 different diffuser starting locations, I drew a red line where the diffuser effect starts on my GTM.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180519/lq2ru5qa.jpg

This second image below shows the 2 above diffusers depicted as 2 halves of a CFD model with the short diffuser on the top half, long diffuser on the bottom half. Front of car is to the left. Blue is low pressure, green moderate, red/yellow high. Look at 2 things:
-the location of maximal negative pressure (SUCTION)
-the MAGNITUDE of negative pressure
Wow!

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180519/nj8raoyp.jpg

[dallas_]

Very interesting.
Heading to the shop to check out mine....

[beeman]

Very interesting.
Heading to the shop to check out mine....

On the SL-C?
I just crawled under the car (Ok.. I have a lift).
Here's a pic of a straight edge on the forward belly pan, with my digital angle gauge, I'm measuring 4.4 degrees difference between the front belly pan and the rear 2/3 belly pan.
I'm finding that 7 degrees is about as high as you'd want to go without wind tunnel testing, so I like 4.4. The engine and gearbox have to go somewhere! Will probably set the rear carbon fiber diffuser up another 7 degrees relative to the rear body pan.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180519/pzqvasb2.jpg

[beeman]

Ordered some radiator mounts for a Ford Bronco, should be here by the end of the week.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/dog-c6tz-8a193-k.jpg

Here's my final seat position (but not the final seats). Seat lower and upper halves will be independently bolted to the chassis. Seat back is 6-7" forward of the original firewall, it's as far back as I'm comfortable at 6'3". Very relaxed and roomy driving position. Steering wheel is removable, makes life easier with the extra door bar.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180519/c4xqfls2.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180519/e6zq2llg.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180519/6es3q5br.jpg

[beeman]

Modified the hood slightly, extended so that I can access the soon-to-be-added radiator bleed ports, just going to run Crash's engine bay header tank, deleting front surge tank.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180529/6qdfe6wh.jpg

The Bronco radiator supports work, but a primary goal of mine is to completely seal all of the incoming air to the radiators. So I fabricated 1/2" tube mounts that seal to the fronts of the radiators with weatherstripping. Next step is ducting. No air is going around my radiators.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180529/x3zag6un.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180529/pwpnvfeu.jpg

[beeman]

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180609/mk2iux68.jpg

[WIS89]

Man, you have GOT to be pleased with your progress!! I have said it before, but I really admire your mad fab skills!

I have always enjoyed seeing your updates, your creativity, and your serious craftsmanship!! It's looking great.

I look forward to the next update, and really appreciate you sharing your progress.

It's going to look awesome!!

Regards,

Steve

[beeman]

Thanks, Steve!
Got the upper door bars notched, I like the added protection.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180617/uovqbol5.jpg

Took some time today to work on the radiator outflow ducting. I think it will function very well. Just a few more ducting panels to make.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180617/bzl7qtqm.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180617/oaxnj39k.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180617/xllamljn.jpg

As you can see in the next couple photos, the outer wall of the duct protects the radiator from tire debris and air disruption created by the rotating tire when driving straight or slightly turned. So no detriment to efficiency in a straight line when cooling is most critical. In a corner with significant wheel turn, the tire will come into the air path, not worried about air disruption/efficiency while turning, but I'll probably need a protective mesh to protect the radiator from debris kicked up in a turn.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180617/vdulj6b5.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180617/nb4p6z2z.jpg

Passenger side

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180617/to5vfhsp.jpg

[dallas_]

Good progress!
Love watching it come along.

[beeman]

Thanks for checking in, Dallas! Always looking for input and opinions. You guys make me glad to know I'm not the only one reading this thread!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180619/9xjp54h5.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180619/3udwhj7z.jpg

[Shoeless]

You are definitely not the only one reading this thread :).

Got to love bringing CFD analysis into the discussion as well. My background is in Aerospace Engineering, specifically turbine engine design and mostly aerospace methods of manufacturing, but shifted over to Program Management a year or so ago as it had a more appealing career progression path for me. I have the utmost respect for my older sheet metal fabricators that share the same skillsets you are using here. Those guys could work magic when it came to all the development programs I worked over the years.

Keep up the great work and posting. I love seeing what other GTM builders are up to. It also gives me some great ideas. Dang I need to get back in my garage and leave the fishing alone for a bit LOL.

[SteveE]

Beeman, do enjoy your thread as well as seeing the changes that you are making. You are very skilled in my opinion, and you help keep me motivated to work on my car as well.

keep it up.

Steve

[beeman]

I agree that seeing other guys moving along motivates me too. I'll try to keep plowing along!

Adjusted the outflow ducting to protect the radiator from tire debris and airflow disruption. Here's a pic at full lock. Will add a partial protective mesh or screen in the small area that's still at risk.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180622/9mkmbab7.jpg

Still need to trim a couple edges, but looks about done. Recommended radiator outflow ducting area is 25% of radiator surface area. I'm at 27%.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180622/gxy8hvzf.jpg

[beeman]

The small gaps will have weatherstripping. Should be efficient and aerodynamic.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180624/54pyjx22.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

Here's a pic at full lock.

This thing is starting to take shape - very cool! Not that I have to remind you, but you accounted for suspension travel (up & down)
when checking your clearance correct?

I like that double rad setup; I think you and Dave are the only GTM's on this site with that feature?

[beeman]

This thing is starting to take shape - very cool! Not that I have to remind you, but you accounted for suspension travel (up & down)
when checking your clearance correct?

I like that double rad setup; I think you and Dave are the only GTM's on this site with that feature?

Yes, sir. I have about 20mm of clearance minimum at all steering angles and suspension travel. Here's a pic I found that gives you an idea of the clearance. Edit: looking at the pic, I think that I bent the rear edge of that side piece in giving me even more clearance than the picture shows, I'll try to remember to take another.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180625/rii9f8cs.jpg

Dave Fraser is the only other twin-radiator builder that I'm aware of. And he was very helpful with questions I had. And he's pretty handy with aluminum TIG as well ;)

[beeman]

Still going to have a front trunk, but the fixed front fenders were not giving me good vibes about front suspension access. So will have a fixed front fascia/forward part of wheel arch, tilting hood with attached fenders. Along the lines of a Koenigsegg Regera but with a forward tilting hood.

https://www.uscarsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2018-Koenigsegg-Regera-Engine.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180630/9cmqb7wa.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180630/8bud79ae.jpg

[beeman]

Not much traffic on here so I'll post a small update...
Honda turn signal /wiper stalks, GM column, so the Honda unit was free floating. Easy fix with the printer.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180708/luewqa5z.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180708/5zikazxj.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180708/ijggp5li.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180708/5txixiwg.jpg

Time to get the front finished

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180708/oh8trllm.jpg

[beeman]

Got a little sidetracked

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180713/is92wnvl.jpg

[beeman]

Side project about done.. Any guesses?

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180715/ad24zjv9.jpg

[SteveE]

I would say looks like harness bar, but not really thinking that is correct.

[dallas_]

I have no idea, but whoever you strap into that isn't getting out. :)

[beeman]

Ha, it IS a harness bar but I would never trust my life to it!
A clue : looking forward to the Nurburgring!

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180715/ptu3hx56.jpg

[flynntuna]

Ha, it's for your race simulator.

[beeman]

You got it! Voyage to my basement for final assembly! The harness isn't just for eye candy ;)

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180716/7892keh5.jpg

[beeman]

Full motion, VR. Should be fun

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180716/3hnnrupm.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180716/wooo9zsu.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180716/hx98y8df.jpg

[Shoeless]

Now that looks like fun!!!!

[dallas_]

Sheesh..... now you've gotten me interested in racing simulators.
Wouldja just get back to building your car please? :cool:

[beeman]

Sheesh..... now you've gotten me interested in racing simulators.
Wouldja just get back to building your car please? :cool:

Don't build one if you can't discipline yourself to stay away from it! Lots of setting up, so far I've driven a 427 Cobra in Belgium. With VR headset, force feedback wheel, Fanatec pedals, and motion seat it's weird taking the headset off and finding out I'm still in the basement!

Had a seat upholsterer come by to modify my seats to sit lower.
Time to get the nervous system put in...

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180722/2pnu5xjq.jpg

[beeman]

Shifter cables should be here tomorrow from CMS.
Figured I'd get the hood bonded together, so I can cut it up again!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180804/wv6l29uk.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180804/ifxadltn.jpg

[beeman]

Shifter cables done, feels great!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180808/ob9mdhxz.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180808/g6ofgy5d.jpg

[beeman]

Finally got the front end glassed together. I found that the cheap $.99 'survival blankets' from Walmart work well for a liner on the table for wetting out the fiberglass and protecting surfaces on the car. Kind of a foil, more of a mylar? Cheap, durable, and very large.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180811/8s27imen.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180811/jrrwylox.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180811/m9c5ebd7.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180811/jdkghqjj.jpg

[beeman]

Getting ready to run coolant hard pipes outside the cockpit. So it will be a ton easier to do each side in 2 segments with a small coupler somewhere along the side of the chassis, otherwise there will be some very complex bending going on. Anyone see any issues with 2 segments instead of one? Would probably be more resistant to vibration damage as well?

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180812/txnlj9d2.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180812/otkgdfcp.jpg

[GoDadGo]

You're Getting There, One Itchy Fiberglass Layout At A Time!

Good Luck!

[dallas_]

. Anyone see any issues with 2 segments instead of one?

No problem at all with that.

Good progress!

[crash]

As I think you discovered, the only way to bend thin wall aluminum tubing is with a mandrel bender. We buy pre bent sections and then weld them together. Your aluminum welding skills have to be pretty sharp to get no leaks, but it is really the only practical way to do hard piping bends unless you happen to have or know of someone close to you that has a mandrel bender. Many times we will try and just use straight sections of hard tube and then use silicone elbows where bends are needed. An added bonus is that with this method, since we go to the track regularly, it is much easier to carry spares and to do repairs with the straight tube and silicone elbow method.

For those that do not know what a "mandrel bender" is, it differs from a regular tubing bender in that it has a mandrel that goes INSIDE the tube and essentially provides a dolly for the inside of the material while it is being bent to insure no kinking or deformation during bending. The poor mans way of doing this is to pack the tube with sand, weld the ends shut, then bend the tube and the sand will not allow for a change in volume, thus helping control any kinking or deformation. Again, just not very practical if you want the project done in a reasonable amount of time.

[beeman]

Yeah, I tried on my JD2 tube bender, went very slow, lubed with white lithium, outside looked perfect, inside bend was all jacked up...
I'm using off the shelf oem type rubber hoses, do you think it's worth upgrading to silicone?

[crash]

As long as you are running a 15 lbs cooling system or less, the rubber hoses should be fine. Also, since you have a pretty custom setup with lots of connections, I think even if I was eventually going to go silicone, if I was you I would build everything out of rubber first as any "redos" along the way will be much cheaper.

[dallas_]

I agree with crash. Obviously, bead the tubing and use good clamps. That's worked for me so far.

[beeman]

A few updates. Have an order into VRaptorSpeedworks for some fuel parts, then I'll get the tanks in.
Had some cooler weather a few days ago so I got some glass on the undersurface of the hood.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/k7bfhflf.jpg

Started the new aluminum paneling.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/gry2e7pf.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/5ewu2pha.jpg

Installed the CTS-V alternator.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/a63fdkns.jpg

Got the clutch line done too.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/egb7984n.jpg

[beeman]

I was so close to throwing in the towel on the dual radiators, I wanted completely ducted fans but realized it was going to be a painful time-consuming process to get that done, and I would have had to go with a smaller fan. So I simplified the whole thing by mounting the SPAL fans directly to the radiator (actually to the frame adjacent to the radiators). Should work almost as well as a fully ducted fan.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/xutn6e48.jpg

Got the cooling system finished. Per my other post, I could not bend the tubing more than about 10-20 degrees without kinking, but was able to make some gentle bends where required.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/r4xku25v.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/36a7mvf9.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/pu79lmca.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/uco8qpmj.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180827/kf7wkr4e.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180827/par77qf8.jpg

[crash]

Just so you are aware, while those flex lines are easy, they absolutely kill the flow rates. My recommendation to all builders is to avoid those if at all possible.

[beeman]

Got my e-brake and cables done, Wilwood 330-9371 Emergency Brake Cable Kit, Honda e-brake handle. I like how inconspicuous the e-brake handle is now compared to the bulky C5 mechanism.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/181007/qudsx83g.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181007/pcrljwpw.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181007/5gx3e9vs.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/181012/p9bnat92.jpg

[beeman]

Let me know if anyone wants to buy a set of aluminum gas tanks, brand new.
Got the fuel tanks done. Step 1: buy the crossover gasket kit from vraptorspeedworks.
I used a 1" wood bit, worked great. Then used a heat gun to soften the edges of the hole slightly so I could thread the AN fitting into the plastic. I would wager that the seal was fuel-tight after this step even before putting the gasket and nut on the back side.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/181014/9sh9n3dw.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181014/in37uarv.jpg

Then I plastic welded the unused fittings closed.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181014/unohnbsa.jpg

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/181014/ya96peg7.jpg

[beeman]

Got my seat back from the upholsterer, he replaced the seat foam with a softer foam in the upper layer so my butt is 2" lower.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181015/she89fuz.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Lookin' good!!

[crash]

We love watching this project. Wish mine was moving along like yours.

[beeman]

Thanks guys, still a ways to go. I'm looking forward to seeing updates on the GTM-R too, Mike. Finishing up the body mounting, just about have the passenger side done.

I decided to reverse the door latches, the receivers are on the chassis with the strikers on the doors. My door bars are high enough that my door release pull-straps are at the typical location even though they are on the chassis. So here's my exterior door handle.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181029/ued25my6.jpg

[crash]

That's cool. I had also thought about putting a handle under there. That looks like a Miata piece?

[beeman]

Yes, Gen 1 Miata. Nice, simple, compact.

[Shoeless]

Nicely tucked up in there. I have aspiration of putting some type of touch sensor under there so as I walk up to the car with an RFID or key FOB, I can just run my finger over the secrete spot and the door pops open.

[beeman]

This asymmetry really tricked me, have to redo some things on the passenger side of the body now...I had no idea that the driver's side door sculpting was close to 20mm wider! :confused:

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181104/ia5eg4bl.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181104/dyx92ogs.jpg

I'm going to redo the gas tank filler, the GTM "makes do" with the crossover fitting on the tank, and I have concerns about venting and fill rates. Will fill gas from the driver's side only. Ordered some hdpe barb fittings from 123ponds, 1.5" to fit the fill tube on the C5 fuel filler neck, and 5/8" barb fittings for venting the driver and passenger tanks back to the C5 fuel filler neck vent. Will plastic weld the fittings to the tops of the tanks. Ordered a variety to play with. About $2 each.

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181104/b6ppcrbq.jpg

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/371868258353_/97-99-C5-Corvette-Fuel-Gas-Tank-Filler-Neck.jpg

Will move the fuel filler up to the 1/4 window area, kind of like the 918.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uI7Cs4HMJpA/VEkgbyXrqtI/AAAAAAAACgQ/lqxlGWoErDA/s1600/918%2BProfile%2BOther.jpg

[crash]

That is the location I am moving the fuel filler to on the GTMR as well. Gives a lot more room for tube bends so fuel flows easier. My filler is also a dry break, so no way to make it fit in the fender.

[beeman]

Got the front fascia mounted so I can create a hood. Fasteners will be changed out for pretty ones, lower 3 will be hidden as I'm closing out the central intake.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181117/qpz9kwc4.jpg

Got a 45 degree 1.5" fuel filler hose and 5/8 venting hose.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181117/br6rt3ui.jpg

The bottom 2 inches of the front fascia will be removed to make it level with the belly pan and a splitter will be applied.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181117/u4ol8l8f.jpg

[beeman]

Got the fuel filler welded in. First effort was just a press-fit with a weld around the rim. Felt good until I cranked on it and it failed. Second time around, roughed everything up on both mating surfaces and melted both with a heat gun then stuck them together while gooey then finished with a deep weld around the rim.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181119/e7hwqge2.jpg

1/2" maple plywood for the splitter. Any thoughts on shape? Just follow the fascia shape? What about on the sides? I plan to make one for the street and a longer one for the track.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181119/ldrfbzwa.jpg

The rear side of the 1/2" plywood will be cut to mate against the front of the 1/2" belly pan frame which will make it smooth to the belly pan aluminum. Will weld in tabs onto the frame to support the rear.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181119/b29va53i.jpg

Going to order Longacre splitter support rods for the front support (does 3 seem adequate - one on each side plus one in the middle? Or do 4?)

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181119/vu93tus5.jpg

[Jake From State Farm]

Bee, you can get more strength out of a plastic weld by melting in steel mesh to span the seam. If you bury the mesh all the way below the surface, it’s not coming out. By doing this you’ll achieve a mechanical lock in addition to the chemical lock of the molten plastic. Harbor Freight includes this mesh with their $10 plastic welder kit if you’re not familiar with what it looks like. Keep us updated on your project!

[beeman]

Thanks for that tip, I got my welder off Amazon but it has the mesh, I thought it was just for patching holes. I'll torque the crap out of the fitting and add the mesh if it fails.

[Shoeless]

I think I'd go with four splitter supports with your front facia. One pair inline between the openings and one pair on the outside. Probably more for looks, but I think the functionality will be fine.

I personally like the way the FF GTM is set up with four. Two on the splitter and two on the canards. I can't wait to get to that point on my build and start playing around with carbon fiber ideas.

[beeman]

Got the splitter done, just need to under radius the front edge. I do want airflow under my car to create a negative pressure. This is a real splitter that I will be able to stand on to load my luggage if needed.;)
85mm splitter, plus some 'splitter' built into the fascia.
Weighs 4.5 pounds now, still need to sand/trim a little.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181123/aua5id9c.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181123/jddbjaxk.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181123/ssgnx7qy.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181123/95awxmj2.jpg

[WIS89]

Bee-

Yes, I love the shape of the splitter, nicely done! I too, think that four hold downs will be just right. I continue to admire the quality of your work! I have none of the creativity, and a significant talent disparity to do anything close to this. However, I can sure admire those that have it! I really appreciate you letting us follow along.

I look forward to continuing to follow your progress! All the best.

Regards,

Steve

[beeman]

I appreciate the kind words, Steve. I did go ahead and order 4 supports.
The splitter was a relatively easy project, but I'll admit that the lift made it a lot simpler. Just sat the plywood on sawhorses and lowered the car onto it.

I'm convinced that *most* OEM and aftermarket reclining seats can be modified to fit in the GTM. I was easily able to make the Toyota Celica seat work, and was extremely comfortable, but not exotic enough in the end... Just requires a lot of modification. Sliders won't work obviously, and you can really decrease the vertical height by removing the tilt mechanism and independently mounting the lower and upper halves. And seat cushion modification to get your butt near the floor. I think I have 1 more inch of headroom than the stock GTM. I had to do all the above. I sent my seat bottom back to the automotive upholsterer a second time to get me even lower. I'm very happy with it now.

I shortened and re-welded the vertical bars in the seat back to give me 2.5" more clearance from the roof. (This pic shows the area of the seat back bars I shortened. Those are the welds that came on the seat - not mine!)

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181124/wmizpjem.jpg

Plenty of clearance now. I should mention that the seat didn't even fit in the car when it arrived assembled. Seat back fabric looks wrinkled because I'm modifying it.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181124/hjhl8vme.jpg

I'm rotated slightly to the right, in line with the new footbox.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181124/o4elkdrg.jpg

[jamesfr58]

Beeman, did you have to cut off all of the original seat belt anchor points? I have removed only the outer ones on each side as the intent is to install a 4 point harness. Thinking of getting the Braum seats and getting them recovered. I have some Cipher seats but the shoulder wings are 22" and will hit rollover bar and window when door closed. What seats are you using that you modified?

[beeman]

I should clarify my post above - pretty much everyone to this point has looked for a seat (and there are only a few) that they could squeeze into the GTM cabin (just barely) and settle on one of the few that "works". I took the approach of finding a seat that I like and making it work, but yeah it's a lot of work. Again, these seats DO NOT fit the GTM as designed.

I have removed all the seat belt anchors, will weld in new tabs for both 3-point belt and 5-point harness. I had to modify the seat bottom as well to move me an inch towards midline.

They are NRG Type-r seats. Fabric is just OK. With my door bars, I lower myself into the seat so I'm not rough on the bolsters. I do like the appearance and shape of the seat, and my upholsterer can tune them up if needed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H7MLOVI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_f0--BbXCBJ3FV

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Beeman, still looking at seats as I mentioned but know I will need to modify but hoping to modify as little as possible.

[beeman]

Now that I know where I'm sitting, I got the shifter mounted in the ideal position (for me). Time to anchor the 5-point harness. Upholsterer is going to create a pass-through for the anti-submarine strap.
Hopefully the Cipher harness isn't too JDM!

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181130/697bho89.jpg

[dallas_]

Good progress. What shifter is that?
Also, you may have mentioned it earlier, but what transaxle are you using?

[beeman]

Hey, Dallas!
The gearbox is a g96 from California Motorsports. The shifter is also a CMS unit which I believe is 911 based with the upper billet mount for the GTM backbone (that I had to modify a little since I modified my backbone). I'm not sure if they make it anymore. The knob is late model 911 as well.

[jamesfr58]

Looking Good Beeman....

[beeman]

Thanks!
I'm back and forth between fabricating a rear spoiler (which I would prefer except it would also require that I build a steel subframe under the rear bodywork to support the increased stress) vs an off the shelf wing. I may start a new thread on that to get some ideas.
I decided to get the FiveStar body braces for my splitter, fairly inexpensive and very strong. Here's an idea of the length...

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181203/gynawsih.jpg

[dallas_]

Good find!
I need a set of those for my wing brace.

[beeman]

Fabbing up a cross tube for the main hoop, not sure whether to do an X or a horizontal tube with this one.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181208/q4ofxmmw.jpg

I'm guessing this would be a bad idea? What is the r-value of auto glass? Heat would probably pour through?

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181208/j23m57qr.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181208/3wagyras.jpg

[beeman]

Went out and boxed in the coolant pipes in the cockpit, will insulate inside and outside. Wish I had a brake! It would be prettier, but no one is ever going to see it under insulation and carpet...
I'm not using that seat belt anchor, someone was asking about that.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181221/nv6zkpxx.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/181221/jbl232wb.jpg

[dallas_]

Wish I had a brake! It would be prettier,

Nice work for hand tools. I would love to have a nice pan brake. I have a basic 30" brake that is better than nothing, but a good brake is almost a 'must have' tool.

[beeman]

Nice work for hand tools. I would love to have a nice pan brake. I have a basic 30" brake that is better than nothing, but a good brake is almost a 'must have' tool.

Ok, you've expanded my knowledge, I had no idea there was anything other than a simple brake. Looks like I may have to invest in a 'pan brake'! Beats a 2 pound sledge/angle iron/2x4 setup...

[Shoeless]

If I had more room in the garage and a fewer hobbies, I'd have all kinds of extra tools LOL

[beeman]

Definitely, Shoeless!
More dust flying. I like that the aerodynamic surfaces are fixed up front. Now I have access to the trunk, suspension, and radiator bleed petcocks.

https://fs1.directupload.net/images/181223/to7sfkzj.jpg

https://fs1.directupload.net/images/181223/34c8zh7t.jpg

I have a similar hood to the Koenigsegg Regera now. The problem I'm going to have with a typical rear-hinge hood is that my fenders wrap around the windshield so the hinge needs to be really far back plus needs to be some type of 4-bar system to clear the glass and a-pillars.... Or go with a front hinge.

https://fs1.directupload.net/images/181223/xt5qyrvd.jpg

http://www.metalmoulding.com/Full_Range_Pivot_Hinge1.gif

https://images.carscoops.com/2018/03/koenigsegg-regera-geneva-white.jpg

[beeman]

Dallas, eBay has a 15% off any purchase today with code POPUPSAVINGS. I just ordered a pan brake. Thanks for the tip.

[dallas_]

Congrats on the pan brake. :)

Which hinge location gives you the best access?
Looks like you have a good mounting point for the front hinge, can't really see the area in the rear where the hinge could go.
I like that 4 bar hinge gif.

[beeman]

I think I found some hinges that will work for a rear hinge. I'd prefer that for access to the trunk. We'll see...

I like my wiper, very light and simple. Single 10mm nut to remove it and throw it in the trunk for track days and when I know it's not going to rain. ie so my wife doesn't have to look through it the whole trip. It's a rear wiper from a Toyota Celica. Whole system is a matter of ounces.

Parked position:
http://oi63.tinypic.com/29yny12.jpg

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NegativeReadyAmurminnow-size_restricted.gif

[jamesfr58]

Hey Beeman, looks like a great idea. I have been toying with the same idea, changing the doors to open as you have shown. Have a ways to go before I get there so will be real interested in how your design works. This is one of the nice things about the GTM if you can imagine it, if more than like can be done. Good information thanks of the post.

[beeman]

Sneak preview of the duckbill (or is it ducktail? No one seems to know!) spoiler. IMHO, a flat bottomed venturi type car needs a spoiler (or a wing for a track-purposed car). Without a spoiler you are throwing away most of the downforce created by the flat bottom and diffuser. There is nothing aerodynamic about a flat trunk surface meeting a flat rear surface, plus I think the GTM rear is a bit bland as delivered.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190109/7p5lnyzq.jpg

I think I figured out why FFR dropped the spoiler from the prototype :p ...not that rear visibility was excellent before adding a spoiler.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190109/y5dj74mi.jpg

[beeman]

The waterfall cover was making it difficult to seal off the engine bay from the tunnel. Plus it was blocking access to prime real estate. So I cut it as far back as I could (limited by water tubing off water pump) and glassed in a divider. Just starting to get it trimmed and fitted here. Now I have a hinged compartment, or possibly magnets holding it in place. I'm probably going to put my fuse panel here unless someone has a better use of the space. Tunnel is now fully sealed from the engine bay. For you traditional builders, even if I was running hot water down my tunnel, I think I'd still do this and make a 'glove box' out of aluminum sheet above the water pipes for storage.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190109/ne9tl7il.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190109/mn8vyiab.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190109/t8ov3aco.jpg

[jamesfr58]

Beeman

Saw your post on my other thread showing first start of engine. Shane is correct, the wing supports are supplied by VRaptor and then welded to the tail piece supplied by FFR that was modified to support the 996 six speed transmission. The supports will keep the force generated by the ARP wing on the frame and off the body. Here is a better picture of the wing mounts.

100368

[beeman]

Thanks for the picture, James. I have extensively been debating between a wing and a spoiler, there are pros and cons to both. At this point I'm going to fabricate this spoiler and see how the car balance is with the front splitter. I still may yet add a wing, but I doubt I will need it.

[beeman]

Fuse panel mounted

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190112/3zxr66to.jpg

Battery mounted
Welded in X-shaped mount

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190112/zxlyqzn4.jpg

Old rivet holes are from previous FFR mounting location. Still need to bend up sides of tray.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190112/94y2f9um.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190112/dljkh78e.jpg

[beeman]

Going with a hybrid Painless/GM harness, wanted to ditch the bulky and heavy C5 power distribution boxes. This Painless harness has crazy long wires, you could wire an RV with it!

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190112/j3agv4my.jpg

[beeman]

It's not the easiest thing in the world to mount two 4-bar hood hinges in mid-air and have everything line up perfectly parallel in 2 planes so the hood opens straight and doesn't bind.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190114/v58u4269.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190114/75i383dw.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190114/cca7yaao.jpg

[dallas_]

It's not the easiest thing in the world to mount two 4-bar hood hinges in mid-air and have everything line up perfectly parallel in 2 planes so the hood opens straight and doesn't bind.

I've been following this thread for a while. I can't find a single thing you have done that was easy! :)

[Fraser D]

It's not the easiest thing in the world to mount two 4-bar hood hinges in mid-air and have everything line up perfectly parallel in 2 planes so the hood opens straight and doesn't bind.

Slotted holes :-)

[beeman]

Slotted holes :-)

I had to find a fairly flat/horizontal location in a curvy portion of the hood at the back part of the wheel well, which dictated where the hinges would need to go, then find a way to mount the hinges to the chassis while keeping them parallel to each other. So slotting helps some but I think I need to get this pretty darn close, there is a lot more action going on with these 4-bar hinges compared to something hinging from a single point. The whole hood will be moving towards the ceiling as it begins to open.

[beeman]

Got things welded up, I think I'm really going to like how it turns out. I confirmed that the hinges will allow the hood to clear the windshield. Hinges are 350z roadster trunk hinges, I used to have one and remember the cool trunk geometry. As FraserD pointed out, I do have some wiggle room to make sure things are copacetic (anyone remember that word from the 90's?)...

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190116/ph4flk6h.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190116/6iwmck9n.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190116/dn4qf59z.jpg

[WIS89]

Bee-

I have been following along with your build for quite a while now, and I have really enjoyed following your progress. I know I have said before how much I admire your craftsmanship, your creativity, and your ability to stick with it despite several serious challenges. However, I need to say it again! I remain amazed at what you have done by tearing apart a GTM kit, adding bits and pieces of other cars, plus a great deal of creativity and problem solving, to make an amazing car! She's a Frankencar (and I mean that in a very good way!), but a stunning Frankencar, and I can't wait to see what she will look like when you are done with your magic!!

Thanks again for allowing us to follow along on your awesome build. Mad skills brother, mad skills!!

All the best!

Regards,

Steve

[Jake From State Farm]

Bee-

I have been following along with your build for quite a while now, and I have really enjoyed following your progress. I know I have said before how much I admire your craftsmanship, your creativity, and your ability to stick with it despite several serious challenges. However, I need to say it again! I remain amazed at what you have done by tearing apart a GTM kit, adding bits and pieces of other cars, plus a great deal of creativity and problem solving, to make an amazing car! She's a Frankencar (and I mean that in a very good way!), but a stunning Frankencar, and I can't wait to see what she will look like when you are done with your magic!!

Thanks again for allowing us to follow along on your awesome build. Mad skills brother, mad skills!!

All the best!

Regards,

Steve
+1. I check this thread daily for every bit of the glorious automotive engineering porn. Bee your build is a real treat to follow! :)

[beeman]

Thanks, guys. One of my favorite things on this forum is watching the other builds come along as well.
Thanks for all the input on the other thread about mounting hinges to the fiberglass.
As much as I like the idea of aluminum or composite, I think steel is the best option in my hands. I cut some rectangles out of 1/16" sheet, they are actually lightweight as small as they are. Welded in some studs to match the hinge mount. Will drill some holes to help the bonding agent bite then etch prime them. Then localize them with clecos as suggested, then bond and fiberglass them on.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/uf5amvan.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/m4p4e4fo.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/cnz9dkkb.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/5ygsm3ac.jpg

Front and back sides of the plates

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/38rkqchl.jpg

[beeman]

Carbon fiber prop rod, full trunk/suspension/maintenance access! Yea! I don't know if I mentioned it, but I almost chickened out and went with 4 hood pins and no hinge, very glad I took the time to do it right.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/ek2hvhc2.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190118/uamabb49.jpg

Not the best video, propped the phone on the welder, but you get the idea...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TintedFearfulKoi.webp

[dallas_]

Isn't it about time for an update?? :)

[beeman]

Ok, hopefully it's not a boring update, but here goes!
Figured I'd goof around with the gauge cluster a little, Plan B is Tino's LCD cluster, but my narrow Honda cluster would force me to use a small LCD if I go that route.
Honda dashboard/gauge housing, Corvette C5 gauges. Lot less real estate in the Honda housing.
Pulled the Honda gauge bezel, popped it on the scanner, then imported into the CAD program. All I needed was the outline to 3D print a new bezel that would fit right into the Honda housing, so just traced the outline. (I upload pics at a low resolution to make viewing easier, the pics don't show it but it is a perfect copy)

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/68xiz39b.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/i36j8wml.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/fuc9d6tl.jpg

Measured the 5 gauges I would be incorporating (no Speedometer, going with a GPS base speedometer outside of the gauge cluster) and decided how to lay it out. To fit a shift light and make things symmetric, I am rotating the tachometer to a flat position compared to the canted C5 position. I'm either going to create a new tach gauge face or leave the RPM numbers canted, it won't bother me. Already have EL gauge faces that don't have Corvette logos on them.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/yotspost.jpg

Added the shift light slot plus indicator light locations. Had to divide in half for printing, on the printer now. Will do a carbon fiber overlay on the ABS shroud.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/tee59lk3.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190210/blopgtas.jpg

[dallas_]

Very cool. Looking forward to seeing the gauges in it.

[LCD Gauges]

That is pretty cool. What 3D printer do you have?

P.S. Who is Tito? :cool:

[beeman]

That is pretty cool. What 3D printer do you have?

P.S. Who is Tito? :cool:

An American Icon! Or at least an American Icon's brother... Sorry I must have been in a hurry.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YBbfrnLAL.jpg

My printer is an older one, made by XYZ, I think it is about 4-5 years old, paid around $500 back then. Print bed is 8"x8", it has been very reliable.

[beeman]

Quick update. Printed gauge bezel didn't meet my standards, so I contacted Shane at vraptorspeedworks. He was able to plasma cut my design from aluminum for a very reasonable price. I am thrilled with the result. If anyone is interested, I can do a write up sometime about going from a vision to CAD to Shane's plasma cutter. I'm definitely going to have my center console created by him here soon. It's a great way to achieve perfect symmetry and sub-mm precision. It dropped right into my housing and perfectly matches the gauge face diameters.
I 3D printed the small gauge supports. Still a little work to do but coming along nicely.

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190223/7m6bg3g3.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190223/95kdv8o5.jpg

Here's full resolution photo. Have replacement Electroluminescent gauge faces.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190223/f9msfvr4.jpg

[WIS89]

Bee-

Very nicely done! I really like how the tach is lying on its side in the center gauge; seriously cool looking!

I am going to have to get Shane to do some cutting for me too. I have been scratching my head on a few things, and this might be the best answer. Thanks for sharing some of the details.

Keep up the good work brother!

Regards,

Steve

[beeman]

Thanks, Steve! Just another way to skin this cat.
Borrowed my wife's label maker. Getting rid of the bloated C5 power distribution.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190225/yuf5g6vi.jpg

Rat nest!

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190225/nwz27o4d.jpg

[dallas_]

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190223/f9msfvr4.jpg

That looks sweet. Nice work (as usual).

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That's looking sweet!

And yes, as Beeman mentioned.....if you need anything plasma cut, I can do that for you very reasonably if you can provide me with a workable dxf drawing of the part you want cut. I can also do the design/CAD work for you, but that will increase the costs substantially since it is the CAD drawing that takes the most time to do. If you need some CAD software, I use the free download from emachineshop.com to do all of my CAD drawing.

[beeman]

I've become very intimate with the Corvette electrical system :rolleyes:
My Mustang donor had a fuel inertia cutoff switch that I incorporated into my cobra build. Corvette does not have this failsafe. So I purchased a Mustang unit to splice into the fuel pump power wire. I think a good $16 investment, I think everyone should at least consider it. I will say that I will be mounting it within reach in my cockpit, I will admit that I have triggered my cobra fuel cutoff on the track with high g cornering. No fun to wave the corner worker over to reset it in my trunk...

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190227/ncz8sb3w.jpg

[dallas_]

Beeman, I think a fuel cutoff is absolutely essential. I thought the LS ECU incorporated a fuel cutoff to the fuel pumps?

[beeman]

There is no inertia cutoff. The PCM does control the fuel pump and apparently will eventually kill power to the fuel pump if the engine dies. That's potentially more spraying fuel than I want.

[LCD Gauges]

There is no inertia cutoff. The PCM does control the fuel pump and apparently will eventually kill power to the fuel pump if the engine dies. That's potentially more spraying fuel than I want.

Hmmm...

Would be easy to program that into a certain system (:cool:) using accelerometer info: impact forces, fuel pressure, and "shiny side Up" data! Would be nice to have an automated kill switch in the event the driver
goes 'lights out' momentarily.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw you purchase a switch up above.

[beeman]

The EL tach, just like the Corvette, has indicator lights that show through the gauge face, this looks really bad cocked to the side. So I cut a piece of carbon vinyl to cover the indicators. I really like the way the EL tach looks, but I'm not sure how to adhere it to the Corvette face where it won't lift on a hot day - any suggestions? If it lifts at all, it binds up the gauge needle. My 2nd issue is that I would need some way to illuminate the needle, it's pretty much invisible in the dark.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190301/apr6evxj.jpg

https://s15.directupload.net/images/190301/cii8qziy.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190301/i59gleoo.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190301/ihw57zr4.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

That looks pretty good! Is there any way to rotate the numbers and get decent illumination?

Maybe remove some of the opaque material from the lower layer, and use the top mask to edge the lighting of the numbers?

[beeman]

The graphics on the EL faces are fixed and extend through the full thickness of the face, I guess they call it 'reverse glow'. So I can't really modify the face.
Here's what the back side looks like

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190301/5yso7uqz.jpg

[Shoeless]

I haven't checked in on your build for a bit, but had a vacation day today, so now I'm all caught up. Excellent work as usual!!!

I like the idea of a fuel cutoff in the unfortunate circumstance of an "event." I need to see if I can program this in my "safety" pages in my AEM setup.

I'm just starting to work my wiring diagram for the entire car, including the AEM system I'm going with in Visio Professional. Fortunately enough I had a good reason to get it on my work computer so I don't have to pay for it. It's a bit overwhelming to learn something new, but I think the final product will be very helpful. It will be a lot of copying what AEM already provides for the ECM, but there are open circuits for additional sensors that I will be using most of. This will allow me to tear apart the AEM wiring harness, add what I need, and make it fit the GTM layout. Plus having an entire wiring diagram before I start will be massively helpful.

Keep up the great work!!!!

[beeman]

Thanks!
The Ford fuel cutoff I showed above is completely mechanical so you can use it in any car with an electric fuel pump. You wouldn't even need to let your computer know it's there, just splice into the fuel pump power. If it's ever triggered, the engine would simply behave the same as if you ran out of gas.
I've heard of people retrofitting these into cars that lack that safety feature.

[LCD Gauges]

The graphics on the EL faces are fixed and extend through the full thickness of the face, I guess they call it 'reverse glow'. So I can't really modify the face.
Here's what the back side looks like


I see, that's a difficult illumination to modify.

[beeman]

By uncovering the illuminated center part of the tach face, more light is available to light up the needle. It's not as bright as oem, but it is functional. I won't be doing much hard driving after the sun goes down, plus my shift light will always be running.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190304/lundpjf3.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190304/djm5ixpq.jpg

Got the indicator lights soldered up.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190304/i6pbv9z8.jpg

Got the Electroluminescent gauge faces installed

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190304/h7favqga.jpg

Just about ready to install.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190304/haq2qjkq.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Nice!!!

[WIS89]

Bee-

Have you considered photo-luminescent paint on the needle? I have seen it used, with varying degrees of success, in a number of places. I think it might at least help with your needle, although I don't think it will make it OEM bright. However, it might be worth a shot.

I hope this helps...

Regards,

Steve

[beeman]

Bee-

Have you considered photo-luminescent paint on the needle? I have seen it used, with varying degrees of success, in a number of places. I think it might at least help with your needle, although I don't think it will make it OEM bright. However, it might be worth a shot.

I hope this helps...

Regards,

Steve
I actually thought about doing something like that to the needles, but I will warn anyone NOT to try to remove the Corvette C5 gauge needles, it ruins the gauge. I used my speedometer as a guinea pig, trying to pry off the needle ripped the guts out of the gauge and ruined it. The above EL faces did not require needle removal, probably for that reason. So I don't think I could get a clean paint job on the needles since they are not removable.

[Jake From State Farm]

Have you considered sliding a laminated postcard or some aluminum foil behind the needle and painting it as is? You can choose a paint that illuminates in UV light and throw a few UV LEDs at the top of the cluster area to provide illumination at night without harming your night vision. Think blacklight on neon paint.

[beeman]

Have you considered sliding a laminated postcard or some aluminum foil behind the needle and painting it as is? You can choose a paint that illuminates in UV light and throw a few UV LEDs at the top of the cluster area to provide illumination at night without harming your night vision. Think blacklight on neon paint.

I'll see if I can find an example of that. Paint with brush or aerosol?

[Jake From State Farm]

I haven’t seen it done before. That’s what I’d try, with a sacrificial part first. Aerosol is usually a better finish.

[beeman]

Have you considered sliding a laminated postcard or some aluminum foil behind the needle and painting it as is? You can choose a paint that illuminates in UV light and throw a few UV LEDs at the top of the cluster area to provide illumination at night without harming your night vision. Think blacklight on neon paint.

Ha, I feel kind of stupid. I just recalled that the OEM needles and faces in the C5 are illuminated by a pair of UV lights that sit in front of the faces on either side of the cluster. I knew this at one point... Duh!!! I confirmed on my C5 in the garage that,
Yes, the needles themselves illuminate brightly under the UV lights. I ordered some UV led bulbs. I think problem solved. Thanks again for the recommendation.

[Jake From State Farm]

Derp derp. Happens to the best of us! :)

[beeman]

Coming back around to a previous project.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160403/3kihf674.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190407/x3754m5f.jpg

Had a beautiful spring day today, spent some time in the shop. Hope to have this thing fully wired and running soon.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190407/3ssyud3o.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190407/wyx37942.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190407/4w2bgvcb.jpg

[jamesfr58]

Wiring always just short of nightmare, I see you labeled everything..... I did the same thing, invested in machine to make labels as I will never remember where all those wires went a year from now when I need to take something apart. Good luck with your wiring, always looks like rats nest until they are all terminated and tied up....

[Dwmaurer86]

Awesome thread

[Shoeless]

Hey Dave,

I like the layout of your steering wheel plate. I wanted to do something little different lately, so I'm kicking around ideas of what I would like mine to look like. I'm thinking two rotary dial switches to control my traction control and either my launch control RPM or blended tunes for track vs. street.

Whats your plan on running wiring for all those buttons?

[beeman]

Hey Dave,

I like the layout of your steering wheel plate. I wanted to do something little different lately, so I'm kicking around ideas of what I would like mine to look like. I'm thinking two rotary dial switches to control my traction control and either my launch control RPM or blended tunes for track vs. street.

Whats your plan on running wiring for all those buttons?

Well, here's a thread I made a few years back. I'm currently trying to come up with a wireless option for my removable wheel, but if you are doing rotary switches that would get complicated. If you have a fixed wheel, I'd go with a clockspring setup.

https://www.ffcars.com/forums/42-factory-five-gtm-forum/554785-official-steering-wheel-button-thread.html

If you want to go that route, I will give you a good deal on the Momo C5 adapter with the Caddy clockspring. I switched to an electric power column so I had to buy a different hub adapter.

[Roger Reid]

...I'm currently trying to come up with a wireless option for my removable wheel...

Check out Raptor Pro. https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/summit-technologies-raptor-pro-solid-state-steering-wheel-button-control-system-851896/

[beeman]

Check out Raptor Pro. https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/summit-technologies-raptor-pro-solid-state-steering-wheel-button-control-system-851896/

Thanks for the link, Roger. I have seen that product and it looks awesome. It is definitely an option if my DIY system crashes and burns. I'll post more as my frankenstein wireless system comes along.

[crash]

I'm using this...

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=12520

[beeman]

I'm using this...

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=12520

I had not seen that one, Mike. That's an ideal setup for a removable wheel. I was trying to come up with a connector that would mate up like that but failed. I can't believe they have 12 wires too.
I'm working on an 8 function wireless system basically repurposing two car alarm systems. I will have 10 buttons since the horn and flash-to-pass will have 2 buttons each on 1 circuit. I think it will work very well.

Here's a preview :

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190408/umxmqq9e.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190408/92fmlqum.jpg

[Shoeless]

Thanks for the link to the other article and the offer on the clock spring and adapter. I'll shoot you a PM to no clutter up your thread.

[beeman]

Shift light done (one-of-a-kind system built by a someone who actually understands programming), time to get the cluster in and finished wiring. It should change color and flash at redline once hooked up to RPM signal.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/20190412_091918_1.gif

[beeman]

Here's my gauge cluster with the EL gauge faces. C5 needle typically illuminated by UV lights in the OEM cluster.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/utgnduji.jpg

Purchased some tiny UV led lights, will install 3, here's the 1st one in place :

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/kiv2eixi.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/a99dbbo6.jpg

Ready to rock n roll

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/7rsz93u6.jpg

[beeman]

"Waterproofing" the trunk.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/fr3meabj.jpg

Man, that would have been nice if the targa fit! Just a few inches more :(
Actually... If I move my wiper I think it will!! Who would have thought! Can I mount my wiper motor off to the side?? I'm getting a little excited about this!

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/zus8mbqd.jpg

[beeman]

The wiper lost out on this one. I'll need to figure out another option.
I just need to clearance a couple areas. But boy would this solve a major headache - ie having to leave the top at home or custom fab a targa that breaks down for storage.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190413/bsntxdci.jpg

[beeman]

Done. Still plenty of luggage room underneath.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190414/m97bof55.jpg

[beeman]

Not much traffic here so I'll add another update.
Just checked the mail, thanks Shane!
The more I use 3D printing, the more I learn its strengths and limitations. Regardless, it is great for prototyping. My 3D printed steering wheel button plate was plenty strong for its purpose of securely holding buttons and the stress of mashing on them... But the plate has to be mounted between the hub and the wheel and I wasn't willing to count on ABS to support that stress. So I emailed vraptorspeedworks. Two thicknesses to play with.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190414/ajmjprpj.jpg

[crash]

Use a self contained marine wiper unit and mount it to the side of your targa top?

This is like the unit I am using...

https://www.go2marine.com/product/35174F/marinco-afi-1000-waterproof-wiper-motor.html

[beeman]

Use a self contained marine wiper unit and mount it to the side of your targa top?

This is like the unit I am using...

https://www.go2marine.com/product/35174F/marinco-afi-1000-waterproof-wiper-motor.html

Thanks for the link, Mike, some interesting hardware on that site. I'm having trouble picturing how that unit would mount though.

[crash]

It mounts via the shaft hole and one screw. Very easy to mount. You can see drawings at the manufacturers website...

http://www.marinco.com/en/37110

[beeman]

Thanks Mike, looks like a reasonable option.

Got my Targa trunk roof mounts done. Repurposed some Jeep Cherokee radiator mounts that I was planning on using but never did. Very secure mounting for the top and does not interfere with truck access for cargo. I just need something now to hold the top down in the mounts, could be something as simple as bungee cords vs. something more elegant. Please let me know if you have any good ideas.
This is actually version 2.0. Version one involved locking the targa into place utilizing the roof targa locks. I realized that access to the mechanism would be a pain in the butt after spending some time fabricating that.
Again, this really solves one of the biggest concerns I had with the entire car, namely what the heck do I do with the roof when I take it off away from home. I really had given up on the idea of finding a place in the vehicle to stow it.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190419/osg23989.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190419/a6w5lhrx.jpg

[crash]

You may want to look at Rok Straps? They are like flat bungee cords and would be much lower profile and also have much nicer hardware...

https://pu-products.com/product-category/rok-straps-fixed/

[beeman]

I actually think those might work perfectly Mike.
It looks like they aren't supposed to scratch painted surfaces, do you know? I can always put something underneath the strap to prevent paint damage. Looks like the 24" might be best.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190423/apsd2whw.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

I just noticed the LED bar and that you have the needles illuminated. Nice stuff! I can't believe you'll be able to fit the targa top
under the hood after making the front end SMALLER! :cool:

[Jake From State Farm]

www.uscargocontrol.com

Take a peek at their L-track systems. We use this in the transportation industry (aircraft, trucking) for heavy duty applications and it’s fantastic. 100% secure connection with a one handed instant release. You could get by with a few pucks and a basic strap. As for padding the strap, there are soft tie down covers sold in the motorcycle industry that may be of interest.

[crash]

I actually think those might work perfectly Mike.
It looks like they aren't supposed to scratch painted surfaces, do you know? I can always put something underneath the strap to prevent paint damage. Looks like the 24" might be best.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190423/apsd2whw.jpg

They have what appears to be a woven nylon covering. As long as the panel does not move around much, then I don't think the straps would hurt the paint at all. I have a couple of these straps from a promo from years ago and they are a quality product. I wouldn't worry about putting them against paint unless I expected movement.

[beeman]

Mocking up the air intake system, here is where I am so far. I'm a stickler for the GM MAF location recommendations, I get a little concerned when I see installations that ignore it :

Ensure the MAF Sensor is mounted in the middle of a minimum 6 inch length of 4 inch diameter tube, and is a minimum of 10 inches from the throttle body.

Here is what I have so far. So I need to figure out the airbox. I have room behind the driver's seat for a plenty-big airbox that would be protected from engine bay heat. Or I can shorten the 4" tube to keep everything aft of the firewall. I am still debating roof scoop(s) vs 1/4 window scoops.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190426/ep9pn7yf.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190426/w4gx9zhv.jpg

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190426/rp7zdsux.jpg

[LCD Gauges]

That's probably the best place for the MAF in your setup. It's on a straight run, so readings will be more accurate than
coming off a bend.

Definitely keep the heat away from the MAF and intake tubing. Why not grab the air from the rear section of the car
(just behind the glass) and shorten the tube?

[beeman]

Yeah I'm not sure which is the better option. So I'll work on the trunk. The smaller one will be for electrical components including relays and power distribution for front electrics. I think the car alarm brain might also fit in there.

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190426/3zdprvef.jpg

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190502/s5sj8k2l.jpg

[beeman]

I spoke with one of the Lingenfelter guys about moving the oil temp and level sender, I bought a plug to delete the stock location on the oil pan so I can clock my starter away from the header. I'll put a temp sender on the other side by the oil filter.
My LS3 has the 58x crankshaft wheel, my ECU is a C5 which only knows how to interpret a 24x signal. Rather than rip everything apart, I ordered the Lingenfelter plug and play electronic adapter. I asked the Lingenfelter tech if it would potentially destroy my engine if it failed for any reason, he said the engine would just die. Reviews on the device are 5/5 for the most part.

https://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/DSCF6278_900_540x507.jpg

https://www.lingenfelter.com/product/L460065397.html

After reading Shoeless' post about custom wiring, that feeling in my gut that I should do a from-scratch harness (combined with the C5 wiring that I'm keeping) led me to rip out the Painless harness...

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190502/ne4lmc6t.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That Lingenfelter adapter sure seems like an interesting solution. The biggest PITA with the newer crate engine ECU's for LS3's and LS7's is that they do not offer any way to control the AC compressor or cooling fans, which results in having to incorporate a bunch of "work-arounds" on a GTM....and no matter what you do, you still don't have the ability to tell the ECU when the AC compressor in engaged, and therefore a lot of these engines will die when trying to come down to idle when the AC is on since they have no way to anticipate the load of the compressor. AC compressor control, idle control with AC, compressor over-rev protection, cooling fan control based on both coolant temp and AC function.....all done by the C5 engine ECU and can not be done on LS3 and LS7 ECU's. That little reluctor wheel adapter just might be the easiest solution to all of that?....nice find!

[Shoeless]

I’m glad I have inspired you to take another look at your wiring approach, all be it more work on your side, but ultimately I think you will be happy with a custom made harness. I truely love learning new skills and once the wiring process is complete I will know every single wire and every single function the car is doing.

I too once looked at the Lingenfelter converter some time ago when I was looking at what EMS to run and what it could read (24x or 58x). After talking to AEM they told me how to change what would be their plug and play harness for a 24x setup to run on a 58x motor. I’m sure every system is different, but it was as easy as swapping a couple pins on that sensor lead and BAM now it’s 58x.

[KGTM]

That Lingenfelter adapter sure seems like an interesting solution. The biggest PITA with the newer crate engine ECU's for LS3's and LS7's is that they do not offer any way to control the AC compressor or cooling fans, which results in having to incorporate a bunch of "work-arounds" on a GTM....and no matter what you do, you still don't have the ability to tell the ECU when the AC compressor in engaged, and therefore a lot of these engines will die when trying to come down to idle when the AC is on since they have no way to anticipate the load of the compressor. AC compressor control, idle control with AC, compressor over-rev protection, cooling fan control based on both coolant temp and AC function.....all done by the C5 engine ECU and can not be done on LS3 and LS7 ECU's. That little reluctor wheel adapter just might be the easiest solution to all of that?....nice find!

Hi Shane,
Are you saying it does not even have the fan relay output? my older ls376 at least had that, but no AC control, that would be trouble.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hi Shane,
Are you saying it does not even have the fan relay output? my older ls376 at least had that, but no AC control, that would be trouble.

We've installed quite a few GMPP crate engines here and it seems that no two engine harnesses are the same. They are all constructed differently, have different fuse boxes and different outputs. Some have fan relays built into the harness with heavy output wires to power a cooling fan. Some have just a relay trigger output for the cooling fans and you have to wire in your own relay. Some have no cooling fan output at all. None of the LS3/LS7 harnesses/ECU's can control the AC compressor or have a way to control the cooling fan based on AC function because GM switched all of that function over to the BCM and communicated that info from the BCM to the ECU via CAN BUS.

[KGTM]

Mine does have the fan with really but I do not use it directly, I have my own fan and AC controller with temperature input and trinity ac switch and fan control with PWM and RPM input for max RPM of AC clutch control, also I turn off AC when depending what is going on with RPM and I may add paddle position into that so in hard acceleration it will turn it off, it worked well and very clean!

Mostafa

[beeman]

Need to get moving on the rear end so I can get a spoiler mounted. I cut the hatch so I can leave the rear part fixed for an aero device. Trying to decide between ducktail and elevated spoiler/wing.

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190508/ex9ovhv5.jpg

[KGTM]

That is what I did.

now you need latch and supports.

[beeman]

I swung by Lingenfelter to pick up my reluctor adapter. What a great company.

Every once in a while, I come across a socket with some patina. I didn't have a 1 1/8 inch deep socket to remove my oil level sender. Lingenfelter was nice enough to loan me theirs for the quick job!

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190510/w67fk3ac.jpg

[beeman]

Finalizing wiring of the LS3 with the C5 Corvette PCM and harness. More involved than I thought, but not bad. Definitely not plug and play. Several "plug and play" adapter harnesses are available, but are 3x the price of the appropriate pigtail, and much bulkier, so I'm soldering everything in (except for the Lingenfelter reluctor adapter).

1. Combine the C5 separate TPS and throttle motor power harnesses into single LS2 (LS3 TB NOT compatible with C5 computer!) throttle body harness (not completely intuitive - 2 C5 wires are not used)
2. Lingenfelter reluctor adapter. Plug and play with C5 harness, bridges Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors to C5 harness.
3. MAP sensor pigtail change
4. C5 MAF and IAT combined into single 5 wire LS3 MAF sensor.
5. LS3 knock sensors not compatible with C5 PCM (without extensive tuning). There are 10x1.5mm bungs on both sides of the LS3 block to mount ls1 knock sensors, just need to extend the harness.

[WIS89]

Need to get moving on the rear end so I can get a spoiler mounted. I cut the hatch so I can leave the rear part fixed for an aero device. Trying to decide between ducktail and elevated spoiler/wing.



Dave-

Even though you didn't ask me, I think you need to go with the elevated spoiler/wing! I just think with a car like this, with a true super car look to it, deserves to have the high rear wing to make it look like it can fly!

That's my opinion. What I do know however, is whatever way you go on this, it's going to look awesome! I really admire your skills, and enjoy seeing your updates!

Regards,

Steve

[jamesfr58]

Beeman,

I have a heavy power wire from the ECU for the fans but I did not use them as Shane was saying it would only turn on both fans based on temperature and would not operate the with A/C or the trinary switch, so I got a Dakota Digital fan controller to control the fans as low / high fan operation and can set the temperatures I want them to come on at. I also incorporated and window switch to shut down compressor at higher PRM and return compressor to operating with the RPM's drop below the low range. I can also set the low RPM compressor on and high RPM compressor off on the window switch. This way I have complete control of the fans and compressor even though I am using the LS3 stand alone ECU and wire harness.

[beeman]

Here's a relay diagram that I found to run my dual Spal fans at high and low speed, it is essentially the same circuit as the C5. Runs them in series for low speed and in parallel for high speed.
Does this look accurate?
Would I need to protect my PCM with diodes?

https://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/data/3537/Dual_Fan_Schmatic.jpg

[KGTM]

This should work, but you may want to exchange 86 and 85, for most part 86 is positive and this is because you can get these relays with builtin diode and for those 86 must be connected to positive otherwise it will blow the fuse or burn up.

Also one may accidently place one with diodes in there and could damage the drive or blow up the fuse again.

Mostafa

[beeman]

Sounds good, Mostafa. So I shouldn't worry about putting any diodes between the PCM and the relays?

James I think you have the right fan setup for the LS3 PCM. I'm keeping traction control, ABS, TPMS, gauges, DIC, etc from the C5.


Dave-

Even though you didn't ask me, I think you need to go with the elevated spoiler/wing! I just think with a car like this, with a true super car look to it, deserves to have the high rear wing to make it look like it can fly!!

Steve

Well as usual I invested (not much money in this case) in mocking up both options. I like the low drag option of a rear spoiler (a proven 200mph design) and have partially mocked that up and I think it looks great.
Plan B is an elevated wing (OEM vs aftermarket). Currently have uprights on the 3D printer (basically will be aerodynamic facades over aluminum uprights if I end up going that route) just to see how a Japanese oem wing looks. This route should let me use actuators for a DRS button on my steering wheel.

107098

107099

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Yes, your fan relays should work like that.....same as in the C5. Shouldn't need any diodes anywhere for that.

[beeman]

I know what an APR wing looks like on a GTM, and I like Shane's custom integrated fiberglass wing. I haven't seen too many other options out there (GTM-R aside). Quick mockup of a Honda wing in my shop, I like it to some degree and don't like it to some degree. I could mount it a little lower, but would need it at the current height to clear the body as it is deployed into high AOA mode if I install actuators. It reminds me of the deployed wing on the Porsche Carrera GT, and I always thought that the wing never looked quite right on that car.

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190515/d443t7l3.jpg

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190515/c3a943yj.jpg

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190515/73edgti4.jpg

[WIS89]

Dave-

I like some aspects of the design, but I think it is missing something. One thing I think looks good on these cars, and not so much on others, is simply a large wing. To me, the scale of the car requires the use of a large wing -- it just looks right!

What do you think about a wing that mirrors the shape of the rear of the car. In other words, flat-ish in the center section, then curves up around the rear "fenders" flaring back to flat to the outside of the car. Then, when retracted, the wing would sit just above the back end of the car. nearly disappearing into the back of the car. Then, when extended would rise up to the selected height and AOA you need. Hopefully I explained that in such a way that it makes sense. The shape would be different, but I am not sure that this is a bad thing. I think the added bonus of it being somewhat invisible when retracted is a nice feature.

I love the DRS button on the steering wheel. Your button selections on your steering wheel are going to be insane! I love the progress!

Regards,

Steve

[Presto51]

Steve, Dave,

Are you thinking along these lines?

107285

[beeman]

Ron, is that the Jaguar? I don't know what I'm looking for yet. I think the Honda wing above is undersized for the massive GTM rear, but it was the same on the Carrera GT. But the Carrera GT is a handful to drive and many have been totaled. My main goal is that the wing or spoiler work in tandem with the undercar aero, so I'm really targeting the area behind the diffuser.

[beeman]

Steve, I think what you describe is close to what I'm looking for, but would take a lot of time to build. Plus I worry about things like symmetry when doing something one-off like that. I'd rather modify something off-the-shelf if possible...
For me, this car is function first, form second. I don't know how I feel about a huge wing on the car all the time when a much lesser device will give me plenty of downforce without all the drag of a 69" wing. I'm also not searching for the prettiest or coolest option, but I wouldn't consider an option that would be ugly.
My roadster has the aerodynamics of a hippopotamus, but it is rock steady at 130 mph (highest speed on a track so far... But I'll be at Grattan Raceway in 4 weeks with a super long main straight). I can only imagine how steady this GTM is going to be!
My track schedule so far this summer is Grattan Raceway, Autobahn CC, and Gingerman Raceway. But I'm also an alternate for a weekend at Indianapolis - both track setups, keeping my fingers crossed! That event requires a HANS...

[Presto51]

Ron, is that the Jaguar? I don't know what I'm looking for yet. I think the Honda wing above is undersized for the massive GTM rear, but it was the same on the Carrera GT. But the Carrera GT is a handful to drive and many have been totaled. My main goal is that the wing or spoiler work in tandem with the undercar aero, so I'm really targeting the area behind the diffuser.

Dave,

Yep that's JX220 checkup on the numbers that it achieved with it's areo package, quite impressive. One of the main features/function was the rear diffuser, which aided in downforce

Ron

[WIS89]

Dave-

I understand your thoughts on the wing, and I think it makes a great deal of sense. Myself, I would never consider taking on a project like that for many of the reasons you mentioned. However, given your skill set, I didn't rule it out!

I admire your plans for summer vacation! ;-o) Those should be some great racing weekends with lots of go fast opportunities! I look forward to hearing about them.

All the best!

Regards,

Steve

[HardRocker]

I’m planning on using a fiero wing on the back of our gen 1.

[beeman]

I’m planning on using a fiero wing on the back of our gen 1.

Something like this?

http://gt.ppdictionary.com/modifications/DSC01894%20(Large).JPG

I was looking at the Charger spoiler, very similar, with a little curvature to accent the rear of the GTM.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1529/1333/products/Dodge_Charger_Spoiler_2011-2014_Post_Mount_ABS303_95ac539c-c322-4353-937e-569d1088e8a1_800x.jpg

I actually just ordered a different spoiler last night, I hope I can make it work.

[beeman]

Some good background noise in the shop today, hope to make some progress with electrics.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190526/h2vso7m6.jpg

[beeman]

Made the rough cuts for the exhaust, do the Kooks tips tend to end up in the upper part of the cutouts? Or should I raise the rear body some?

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190526/jz34z3qi.jpg

[HardRocker]

Exactly. Same color car btw. I’ll prob have to make taller standoffs.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I don't recall what you've all done in the rear.....if you're still using the factory subframe? Normally, the bottom corner of the license plate area should align with the top rear corner of the subframe tube.....so you would need to mount a bracket to the top of the subframe tube to mount the license plate area of the body to it. I try to keep the exhaust centered or a bit below the center line of the opening in order to keep the heat away from the body as much as possible.

[beeman]

Ok Shane, I am definitely lower than that, I will move the body up some. Thanks

This car will see quite a bit of track time, it concerns me to see a video like this, I'd hate to lose my rear wing at 150+. I don't disagree that the big APR wing looks great on the back of the GTM though, and if this was strictly a street car I would probably go that route. Leaning more towards a body mounted spoiler...


https://youtu.be/_LnmD7kxHUw

[beeman]

Had to move the wiper to stow the targa up front, the Honda S2000 wiper is nice, has little triangular wiper components that are easy to mount. Had to get this finished so I can remove the front windshield frame and install another one I have that has had the glass removed. It's in perfect shape and will be welded in permanently to the structure.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190529/y3b4lseh.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190529/5oxc8q3y.jpg

[beeman]

I like it. Functional with the undercar aero. Thoughts?

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190602/sqxqwqte.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190602/kjdxy95d.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190602/upryb2j9.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190602/6a5m2g7v.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190602/g88ev7ff.jpg

[beeman]

This is the first time I've made a fiberglass mold. Wish me luck...

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/4sicajon.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/dy38wmqq.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/pfnofh3w.jpg

[beeman]

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/afm6dh4g.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/agywqvcy.jpg

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190603/qby8gktr.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looks great! Good luck!!

[beeman]

Looks great! Good luck!!
Thanks, Shane. I really like it so far, I think it's going to work really well functionally and aesthetically. I added a couple more layers of cloth tonight to stiffen it up, then will smooth it out with body filler and make a mold, then a part. I think that would be better than finishing it as-is right?

[LCD Gauges]

Nice work. It's a bit "Daytona-esque" :cool:

How is the forward view with the dash pod?

[beeman]

Nice work. It's a bit "Daytona-esque" :cool:

How is the forward view with the dash pod?

Forward view is excellent, just the upper part of the dash pod enters the driving view. My seats are back at the upholsterer to create anti-submarine strap pass-throughs, once I get them back in I'll post a pic of the driving view. The short hood and slightly lowered front fenders make for a great view out front.
Yes I definitely had the Daytona in mind, as well as some other 200mph designs including the 488 Pista. Like just about everything else on a production car, the spoiler is limited by parameters including rear visibility (some manufacturers like GM have gone to see-through polycarbonate spoilers as a compromise, I think some exotic manufacturers probably wouldn't even consider that). My spoiler will limit direct rear visibility, which makes deleting my firewall window an easier decision (replaced by insulation to decrease cockpit heat and noise).

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/8b2A3/s1/piloti-ferrari-blu-tour-de-france.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks, Shane. I really like it so far, I think it's going to work really well functionally and aesthetically. I added a couple more layers of cloth tonight to stiffen it up, then will smooth it out with body filler and make a mold, then a part. I think that would be better than finishing it as-is right?

That is what I would do...yes.....although I'm glad you're the one who's going to have to make the part from that mould. ;-) That's going to be a real b!tch getting way down in there to the "bottom" of the mould (top of the spoiler) with fg and resin.....much like the rear body vents that we make here.

Are you going to bond that whole thing directly to the body so it's all one piece?