Making progress on my build...

[crash]

The 100156. Now I want to track down some 100622. Never used it but would likely help with minor stress cracks I sometimes get...even over fiberglass and resin "bridges".

[beeman]

Weather is breaking, back to the fun outdoor stuff

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[beeman]

Getting closer to pulling a mould. Headlight openings were something I've been putting it off, not liking the way the hood would match up to the outer lens of the light in the manner that the R1 fairing would. Also some concerns about keeping the airflow from catching the front of the hood above the light at high triple digit speeds. Then it dawned on me, do it differently, all that matters is that the light isn't blocked. Started on driver's side. Taped off the headlight with clear tape so I can see the light projectors, then masked off a line with masking tape of where I wanted the hood to extend. Came up with an idea (I'm sure it's been done before) to create a dam with plasticine (thickness approximately equal to the anticipated composite thickness), then mudded up to the dam. Still needs some minor smoothing, then make a template to keep things symmetrical on the passenger side.

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[beeman]

Let's get this show back on the road... Sidetracked by Esprit Turbo build, C5 track car build, 911 build. Back to my original love (after the Cobra build of course)...
Need to finalize the hood so I can pull a mould, which means finalizing the front fascia so the mating edges are finalized. Transferred the headlight cutout to the passenger side. The low beam light output hits the upper part of the fascia, blocking part of the beam. I marked the fascia where I planned to cut a recess for the low beam, but eventually realized that I should drop the whole headlight shelf of the fascia, which would better transition into the headlight and hood.

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[crash]

It'll be interesting to see how the lines end up flowing there. That ridge on the outside of the light might need addressing?

Good to see you are still at it.

[beeman]

Hope you are doing well, Mike!
I have been sidetracked with the other projects, and 4 kids in sports. The 89 Turbo Esprit project took quite a while, went through the whole car. I wanted the result to be something that the Esprit is typically not...Reliable! New interior, new engine, new gearbox, new HVAC, new sound system, completely rewired the car, etc, etc. Culminated with a 1500 mile road trip to the Tail of the Dragon with my local car club (100+ cars went). The car was amazing and basically flawless. We broke into 5 speed groups for 2 days in the mountains, I started in group 5 thinking my 2XX HP Esprit is 34 years old and should not be with the McLarens, Lamborghinis, Porsches, high HP Vettes, etc. I was just looking forward to a GT style cruise through the mountains. Group 5 lost our local guide car early, so the Esprit became the lead car, and I was constantly being told to slow down and allow the other cars to catch up (we had radios). Day 2, I was placed in group 1 (basically WOT through the mountains with very good drivers) and was riding the bumper of the car in front of me through every corner. No way I could keep up with the cars with 2-3x my HP in the straight sections. I was floored by the performance of the car with "Historic" plates.

[beeman]

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[Shoeless]

That's awesome, thank you for sharing. I can't wait to get my GTM back from Shane. Driver should be in my neighborhood next week to pick it up and deliver it to Iowa.

[beeman]

Mike, I think the fascia will look good with rounding that feature you are looking at.
Another tangent, going to 3D print a custom projector headlight bucket for the passenger side with heat formed Acrylic lens and see which I like better before proceeding. No wonder this thing isn't done yet!

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[beeman]

3D printing has its place, but so does cardboard and plywood. Adjusting something 10mm here, 10mm there takes 3 minutes with plywood and superglue, but 36 hours with printing a headlight bucket. Off to a good start. Let me know if anyone has seen any cool DRL/Switchback turn signals that would looks good in this headlight bucket under an acrylic lens. Thanks!

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[beeman]

These are a nice pair of Morimoto switchback LEDs, I think I have the contents of the bucket finalized. Just need to finalize the internal and external shape of the headlight, CAD it, and print.

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[beeman]

Clear plastic sheet to get an approximate lens shape. Acrylic arriving in 2 days, will hopefully have a buck ready to heat form the lens. Time to start some CAD.

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[crash]

I assume you have made headlight covers before and know about the preheat cycle?

[beeman]

I assume you have made headlight covers before and know about the preheat cycle?

I have not, but my understanding is that preheating is required for Lexan, but not for Acrylic. That's the only reason I am going with Acrylic, even though it's not as ideal as Lexan (although Acrylic has great properties as well).

[beeman]

Design your part out of whatever material you are using. Take a photo of the part with a ruler adjacent to it. Import the photo onto your CAD drawing 2D grid. Adjust the size of the photo (lock your photo aspect ratios first or you will skew it) until the ruler matches your CAD measurements, i.e. 50mm on your photo ruler equals 50mm in your CAD measurements. in other words, resize photo, measure with the CAD program's line or ruler tool, repeat until you get it right. Then it's simply tracing over the photo on your 2D grid, then using your part measurements (use a ruler or calipers) to transform it into a 3D part. Although complex geometries get a bit difficult to coax into 3D for someone like myself who uses CAD about once every couple of years...
Then it's off to the printer!
This is just the outer shell of the headlight housing, will confirm fitment with it and then make a buck for heat-forming the Acrylic over it. Once confirmed, the internal details will be added. The Acrylic buck cannot be 3D printed plastic, as the softening temperature of Acrylic is higher than the softening temperature of the printed plastic. So I'll print the shape of the lens, then put a layer of cloth/resin over it.


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Here's the lens shape, will go on the printer next. Hard for CAD to get a perfect mesh the way I want it, so will get a little body filler for final shaping prior to heat forming the Acrylic.

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[beeman]

Spoiler roughly trimmed, 1 or 2 more skims of filler then seal and pull a 2 part mould. This will be practice for pulling hood and front fascia moulds.

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[beeman]

Must.Be.Patient.
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[Ajzride]

What material are you printing your bucket out of? I've not had good luck with PLA or PETG for car parts, they get too soft in the sun. ABS and Nylon have worked well for me and I hear good things about ASA.

[beeman]

This is PLA but it's only for a buck for the Acrylic. Anything permanent will be ABS.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Wow, you've been busy! Very cool stuff!

[crash]

I can't seem to get the quote function to work at the moment, so returning to the preheat issue...

I have actually found that acrylic is worse than polycarbonate when it comes to bubble formation. Acrylic comes out "clearer" as a finished part, but it is much more brittle than the polycarbonate. IIRC we preheat the plastic to about 150 degrees for about an hour, then up to about 400 degrees until it is drooped correctly on the mold. Molds are really simple. Just negative shaped FG on a wood base for stability. Don't know what the flash point of the wood is. Kinda waiting for them to catch at some point, though no charring on anything like that yet.

There are good videos on YT about the preheat and forming process including specific temps, etc.

[Shoeless]

The Retrofit Source has some pretty slick products.

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/Strips-XKGlow-Flexible-Sequential-Switchback-TRS?quantity=1

[beeman]

The Retrofit Source has some pretty slick products.

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/Strips-XKGlow-Flexible-Sequential-Switchback-TRS?quantity=1

Yes, quality stuff. That's where the switchback LEDs in my above post came from.

[beeman]

Did a rattle can guide coat followed by more sanding then a thin layer of Bondo glaze, then 180 grit. Added more glaze to some imperfections, then final sanding, seal, then pull a 2 part mould.

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[beeman]

Spoiler ready to pull a mould, started making flanges with aluminum flashing but it's a pain to work with, going to use cardboard and packaging tape.
Headlight acrylic heat forming buck. Hot glued foam into the headlight bucket to get the general contour, seal with packaging tape, made a fiberglass buck, now just smoothing the contour with body filler, then can heat form the lens. Sunny and 42F this morning, not horrible.

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[beeman]

1st time making a mould, and of course it's a 2 part mould... I really wanted to like the aluminum flashing for a flange but it's actually a pain to work with, hot glue doesn't hold well, etc. Cardboard and packaging tape, not pretty but it works.

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[Ajzride]

I've seen playing cards be used before. Nice uniform shaped and usually waxed.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looks like that will work! Sometimes you just gotta make do with what you have and what works!

[beeman]

I think this will work well. Bi-xenon projector with LED DRL/turn signal.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool project!

[beeman]

Thanks, Shane.
Just laid up 1/2 of the mould, hopefully it turns out OK. Waxed, brushed on pva, brushed on gel coat. Added a pool noodle support just for the heck of it.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That looks good to me! For the moulds that I've made, I found that large nylon rope works really well as a reinforcement....you don't have to fiberglass over it.....just lay it on the outside surface once you're done with your FG layers and soak it with resin and it naturally bonds to the wet layers of FG.

[beeman]

Got the other side flanged, waxed, plasticined, PVA'd, and tooling gel coat applied. Hopefully will have time to laminate after work tomorrow.

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[beeman]

Spoiler 2nd half of the mould had a major gel coat disaster, pretty upset about that so moving back to the headlights.

Front hood contouring for the new headlight, bumper contouring will come later. Here it is with just the first layer of filler to make the general shape. I think this works out well and solves some of the issues I didn't care for with the Yamaha R1 headlights, primarily aerodynamic.

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[beeman]

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[Ajzride]

I do think that looks better than the R1s on the GTM.

[beeman]

Bouncing around the car, converting Kooks exhaust to narrow exit from wide exit so I can access my rear trunks.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Spoiler 2nd half of the mould had a major gel coat disaster, pretty upset about that so moving back to the headlights.



Yeah....I was going to mention something when you posted that you put on the gelcoat and then were going to fg later. In my experience, the gelcoat will always separate from the mould if you leave it set too long before fiberglassing it. I never put down the PVA or gelcoat unless I know for a fact that I have time to fiberglass it the same day. Not sure if that's what happened to you?

[beeman]

Yeah that could certainly be the case, my understand is that the exposed layer of the unwaxed tooling gel coat won't cure until it's sealed by the fiberglass, and I've heard that is that it is OK to laminate the following day. But I won't do that again. Of all my setbacks on this project, this one really got to me.
Temps are falling here in the Midwest, so I'm wondering if that played a role, room was about 60F.
Gel coat was almost 2 years on the shelf so maybe I should have just started with new. Save a few bucks, you know where that ends up...
On the first side, I have a few acceptable blemishes like in this picture that I plan to repair with waxed gel coat.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I've always wondered if it does have to do with temp change. If you leave the gelcoat for a day and the temp changes, the part and the gelcoat expand/contract at a different rate and the gelcoat pulls away from the mould? Not sure what causes it, but it sure does ruin your day. My moulds that I make the Quarter Window Scoops from were really bad at this. I'd clean, prep, PVA and gelcoat them in the morning and then fiberglass them in the afternoon. About 50% of the time one of the moulds (was always the same one) by the time I came back from lunch, the gelcoat was already loose from the mould. I finally ended up cleaning the moulds with wax and grease remover to get all of the wax out of the mould and then hitting the whole mould with some scotchbrite to scuff the surface of the mould up a bit so that the PVA/gelcoat would stop coming loose. Haven't had a problem since.

[crash]

What brand of mold prep and release agent are you guys using?

[beeman]

hitting the whole mould with some scotchbrite to scuff the surface

You'd think that would make it harder to get the part released from the mould?

Here's what I have, Mike.

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Going forward, I'm just going to use standard unwaxed gel coat to complete the spoiler mould, the tooling gel coat is just tougher for multiple parts pulls which I don't need. I ordered some fresh stuff.

[crash]

The fiberglass guy I had doing my stuff was using the Henkel/Loctite/Frekote products in the past, although it has been awhile since I had any mold work done, but they worked awesome. Expensive, but no issues what so ever. Beautiful parts.

I think I would talk to whomever you are buying your products from as they should be knowledgeable in fixing the issues you are having. I would think sticking with one line of products start to finish would be important.

I know for the above Henkel/etc. products, there was a very specific process of cleaning and coating the molds to make sure there were no issues and that parts would come out without sticking. I think 3-4 different products from that line were used. Can't remember for sure, but do remember that it was not cheap to do it right. I think my FG guy did things with production in mind, even though I only did a couple parts from each mold. Might be a cheaper way. I would talk to your supplier.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The only products I'm using are the Partall #10 film, gelcoat that I purchase from Carstens Industries and whatever quality polyester resin I can find at reasonable cost....which right now is True Composites.

As for scuffing the surface of the moulds that were giving me issues....as you may have found out, the tooling gelcoat is hard as hell. It's like scotch-briting cast iron. The coarse red scotchbrite pads barely scratch the surface, even with considerable pressure and scrubbing. I was having the issue with the gelcoat pulling away from the mould on almost every single piece from one of these moulds and I figured that if it releases that easily, as long as I have the PVA in there, it can't get any worse than the problems I was already having. The parts pop right out of the moulds and I haven't had an issue with them since I did that.

[beeman]

Thanks for the info, guys.
Shane, I've been using vinylester resin, about 2x the cost of polyester. What's the opinion on polyester vs vinylester? I'm assuming the FFR bodies are vinylester?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I'm definitely not a fiberglass resin expert. The general consensus is that vinylester is stronger and able to withstand impact better. For the parts I'm building, none of them are really "structural" or designed with an "impact" of any sort in mind. Since the parts are getting bonded to the body (in the case of the Quarter Window Scoops and Rear Body Vents) with an epoxy, and we aren't really dealing with any sort of "chemical bond" like with a wet lay-up of the parts, I just can't justify spending double on resin when I really see no advantage to doing so.

[beeman]

I think the only time you have to use vinyl ester is in ship building, it will not break down with persistent moisture like polyester resin

[beeman]

Looking at the rear of the car with the narrow exhaust exits. Trying to figure out if I should delete the recessed license plate area. Photoshop to the rescue. The large flat surface at the rear of the car doesn't look good unless it is broken up by the recessed area.

Just need to figure out where the license plate will go. Leaning towards central, under the exhaust. 2nd option is offset to one side.

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[Jkviper]

Looking at the rear of the car with the narrow exhaust exits. Trying to figure out if I should delete the recessed license plate area. Photoshop to the rescue. The large flat surface at the rear of the car doesn't look good unless it is broken up by the recessed area.

Just need to figure out where the license plate will go. Leaning towards central, under the exhaust. 2nd option is offset to one side.

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Hey Dave, have been following along. I think I like the last pic the best. License plate in the middle and the exhaust on each side.

[Ajzride]

Agree with Joel all the way.

[beeman]

Well, my exhaust tips have to exit centrally, I have dual rear trunks with access where the original exhaust exits.

Any ideas to improve the appearance of the rear fascia with the revised exhaust tip locations? I'll have the spoiler installed as well...

[beeman]

Had to order some new 3"ss tubing, the Amazon stuff was junk. Getting it tacked together then off to someone who can do prettier welds than I can.

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I don't like how much stress is on the rear body/fiberglass where it mounts to the gearbox subframe so I 8115'd a piece of unused hood to double the thickness. This guy on eBay accepted my $45 offer, cheapest I've seen it. Ordered some more, anticipating more 'bonding' time with the GTM...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225585734410

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[beeman]

Shoulder surgery has laid me up, so nothing getting done that requires any significant physical effort.
Finishing up the headlight buckets, a few revisions for the internal feature that will support the DRL/turn signal LED strip. Each revision improving positioning of the LED strip with regards to visibility from the front as well as positioning relative to the Lexan lens and overlying bodywork. Also avoiding the beam of the projector headlight which requires more effort and packaging creativity. Latest revision on the printer now, only printing enough to index the lens, to speed up the print.
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[Shoeless]

One thing to keep in mind is the flexibility of the LED strips you plan on using for the DRL/Turn Signals. The ones I chose from The Retrofit Source are flexible in one axis (the surface you would stick them to, but not flexible at all trying to bend left to right. Looks like you are putting a bit of a twist on the surface for them, if I'm looking at it correctly.

Pretty awesome being able to design, print, and iterate on the design until you get it just right. I love my printer.

[beeman]

One thing to keep in mind is the flexibility of the LED strips

You are correct, I have confirmed the flexibility of the LED strip in that plane. It may be hard to visualize in the 2D images, the strip will only curve in 1 plane. The iteration (3.0) that is printing now has even more curvature than the previous 2, to better match the contour of the adjacent bodywork. I went with a longer LED strip which has required some massaging to fit, to be clear of the bodywork, and to avoid the projector headlight beam.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool! I'm going to have to look into investing in a printer down the road here someday......love the possibilities!

[Shoeless]

You are correct, I have confirmed the flexibility of the LED strip in that plane. It may be hard to visualize in the 2D images, the strip will only curve in 1 plane. The iteration (3.0) that is printing now has even more curvature than the previous 2, to better match the contour of the adjacent bodywork. I went with a longer LED strip which has required some massaging to fit, to be clear of the bodywork, and to avoid the projector headlight beam.

Very nice!!!!


Very cool! I'm going to have to look into investing in a printer down the road here someday......love the possibilities!

You totally need a printer Shane. Go look at the air hose that passes through the front wheel wheels on my GTM. I didn't want some cheezy install of zip-tying the air hoses to the A-Arm, so I designed and 3D printed two separate pieces that when assembled and epoxied together would hold the 90 deg air fittings, allow me to rivet them in place, and be the passthrough in the wheel wells. Then the carbon fiber button plate on the tunnel wall on the drivers side was designed and printed in several configurations before I sent the final design to a guy to cut it out of expensive carbon fiber. Possibilities are endless.

[beeman]

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Those turned out nice!!

[beeman]

Those turned out nice!!

Thanks, I think they will work well. I still need to do some post-processing/ smoothing of the ABS to make them look less "printed", but I'm very happy with how they turned out.

[Ajzride]

ABS can be smoothed in an acetone vapor chamber. It's harder to print than PLA/PETG but easier to smooth.

[beeman]

I actually found a local shop that can pull moulds and make my new hood and front fascia, less than 10 miles from my home.
Getting the driver's side matched to the passenger side. Gotta love cutting out previously completed work, but that's happened before on this build.
1st step was recreating the exact position and angle of the driver's side headlight. Lots of measurements, pencil marks, paper template, etc. Tried weatherstrip instead of clay to create the edge of the new bodywork, first layer of mud done.

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[egchewy79]

dave, do you have a CAD design of what you envision your front to look like?

[beeman]

dave, do you have a CAD design of what you envision your front to look like?

The last rendering I did still had the modified Yamaha R1 headlights, these headlights were designed to fit the shape of the front of the car and help address some aerodynamic issues and design issues. I wish I had a 3D scanner though...

[Ajzride]

If you have an oculus, you can use gravity sketch to trace out what you have, then sculpt in the changes you want. That’s how I modeled my 818 nose.

[beeman]

Front of the hood essentially done, final skims/sanding.

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Finishing up the last corner of the hood. Lots of measurements from midline and A-pillars, poster board template. Fiberglass shop owner is ready to receive the hood to make a mould then a part as soon as I get it done.

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[crash]

Wow. Exciting. Can't wait to see a finished product.

[beeman]

Wow. Exciting. Can't wait to see a finished product.

Thanks, Mike!

So the plan was to trailer the whole car to the fiberglass shop, this would prevent distortion of the hood that could occur with removal. Instead, I decided to build a frame on the outside of the hood to get it off the vehicle, now I'll build an inner frame to allow for removal of the outer frame. Then off to the fiberglass shop.
It's been so long since I've seen under the front hood...

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[Shoeless]

This will be a major step for your GTM!!!!

[beeman]

No kidding, Sean, need to get this thing done. Too many side projects...
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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Wow....tons of work and time involved there! Can't wait to see the final result!

[beeman]

Sometimes you just need to admit defeat and leave it to the pros. Hood might be done next week. They are still blocking it, seems I missed a couple low areas, imagine that.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Cool! Not many people understand the amount of time and effort that goes into projects like that.

[beeman]

Got the hood back from the fiberglass shop. Really happy with how the part turned out, nice mould too. Gray buck, orange gel coat mould, black part. Life is busier than ever, need to make time for the GTM.

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[Shoeless]

Now that's impressive!!!

[beeman]

Been trying to figure out how to tie the leading edge of the roof into the roll hoop behind the targa roof so it doesn't lift at speed. Wanted to keep the rear body removable so bonding it on was not an option. Bolting it on leaves unsightly bolt heads on the roof bodywork. But had to be bolted on, and I didn't trust bonding a bracket to the underside of the roof fiberglass due to the anticipated speeds this car will see. So vortex generators to the rescue. Fabbed up with m8 bolts, replace with low profile button heads, hide under the vortex generators. I did bond squares of fiberglass at the bolt sites to reinforce those areas. Now roof is flush with the targa roof weatherstrip.

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[beeman]

With roof secure, the rear bodywork has found its "forever home". So need to finish up the rear. I never cared for the drop lip on the rear of the Gen 1 hatch, wanted a flush rear. So cut off the rear of the hatch and bonded it to the body. Will make a weatherstrip flange to allow the rear of the hatch to seal.

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[beeman]

Now time to finish the exhaust. Center exit to allow for the rear L/R trunks. Note the easy trunk access. Measured the dual tip oval for a template, cut the oval template to allow cutting the two tiers of the rear bodywork. Final mockup of the Kooks dual exhaust. Love it. Mufflers will be perfectly parallel, not slightly diverging like in the pic.

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[beeman]

All ready to tack. Wait, why is the left Kooks muffler factory weld 1/16" behind the right side one when the exhaust tips are lined up? Pulled everything apart and took another 1/16" off the offending side... Always something...

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Turns out that the weld on the Kooks muffler isn't as accurate as I had hoped. I wanted the Kooks emblem facing up but will have to rotate them instead, so the welds line up when looking into the engine bay...
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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looks like you're making good progress! I had to do a similar mod to the rear lip of the hatch on a GTM here.....the whole rear lip was so crooked that I just couldn't figure out a way to use it as-is, so ended up cutting just the bottom portion off and bonding it to the body. Much cleaner look than the original design IMO.....as is yours. Yours is the way FFR should have done it from the start. Clean look and you can still access everything at the rear of the engine bay, unlike the Gen II hatch.

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[beeman]

Finishing up wiring/re-wiring the car, 90% done and much happier with the logistics of the wiring than what I had done previously. Have done a couple of other builds and gained some knowledge...

Exhaust finalized and tacked up, ready to go to a good TIG welder. The rear support is a single SS rod which is welded to the rear of the resonators, drops down into a thick rubber grommet that sits on the gearbox subframe. Simple, light, robust, and allows movement.
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[Power Surge]

That looks great Dave! I like seeing your non-traditional build ideas.

[beeman]

Finishing up the under hood components so I can get cracking on the body work. Non-traditional wiper setup, single Honda S2000 wiper mount, Toyota Celica wiper arm, Jeep Wrangler wiper motor. The metal mounts on the wiper motor are the perfect size to tap to M8 X 1.25 for custom mounting . Wiper motor found itself in an odd location so that I can store the target top in the frunk. New tool in the shop, this finger sander makes short work of removing powder coat for welding. I should have bought one years ago. Highly recommended and inexpensive.

https://d3q286erl8dnhb.cloudfront.net/q9mhvz%2Fpreview%2F60460330%2Fmain_large.gif?respo nse-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22main_large.gif% 22%3B&response-content-type=image%2Fgif&Expires=1725037583&Signature=fW~LR9~7omH3znFva6WT420AQnX3-9ENNeVsraBA-5J-qXZzTmti5WNHKGS1p~1Vwe13GpRRb2KpkWLlFEjf2IzFaTHhl-vgKgLTkqRpzMDzma~eBxd9aFcsakeabTFCgHlViny6-V30KAAQ6IxhW1bkG9VZaqPhG22ZN5h0tlrjfm-50d5cutvrKXNiFMl4x00g08FEPrKhjAZ0zdPlxez4fIGB0jQFB GgewOW4iUgqyhiqwCPk0B769ieQDuTPyk0K2YdN6CzcJLwhVTj kVSPllGtjq474KGLa8z-ZT9ssjyo0uNL4L-l8-nLYJrTCrYZk7JaqqNDLuL6L4ZBrqQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJT5WQLLEOADKLHBQ

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[beeman]

A few minor adjustments then it will be perfect

https://i.postimg.cc/HLLNqpmc/GIF-20240830-125527-646.gif

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Quite an assortment of parts there! Looks like it should work nicely!

[beeman]

Center air intake delete. Didn't realize that vinylester bonds pretty aggressively to plexiglass, was fun pulling that off after glassing. Next time I use a plexiglass dam/mould, I'll add masking tape.
Picked up a hobby mill for the shop. Only weighs about 1000 lbs with the base.

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[Shoeless]

Ohhhh nice, it's like a mini bridgeport!!!

[crash]

Center air intake delete. Didn't realize that vinylester bonds pretty aggressively to plexiglass, was fun pulling that off after glassing. Next time I use a plexiglass dam/mould, I'll add masking tape.


I use a sheet of wax paper. No seam lines on parts like the size you have there and much quicker to set up and remove when compared to masking tape.

[beeman]

Hood permanently mounted and functional. Now addressing the original side GTM body work, other than the door panel, that is currently free floating. Making brackets to tie the side body work into the main chassis taking care to line up perfectly at the gaps. Each body mount will have triangulation for strength at speed. A bit tedious but one step closer.

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[crash]

Hey, you're making progress. Sometimes it seems like things take awhile(and they do) but if you commit to just keep working on it, things will get checked off the list.

Just an aside as to how I did things in those lower fender areas. I extended the floor sheet metal out to the bottom of the fenders on all four corners in order to give them some rigidity. They won't move much at all in the vertical direction, so you just need to stop horizontal movement at the lower lip of the fenders. Sheet aluminum has worked well for me in this application.

[beeman]

Mike, I might do that to keep air from catching the bodywork from underneath. Would you use 060 aluminum?

[crash]

I'll try and get a picture tonight if I remember.

I used pretty thin material and then bent an edge on it to make it stronger.

[beeman]

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[crash]

It looks like .030.

[beeman]

It looks like .030.

OK! So pretty thin like you said, thanks

[Shoeless]

Now that's some fancy welding. I wish I was half that good :cool:.

[beeman]

Me too, that's why I had this guy do it :p.

Measure twice, cut once. Then undo the changes you made:rolleyes:
Going back to the original door length will allow access to "cubbies" behind the seats.

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[beeman]

Side skirts widened by about 50mm. Aluminum sheet support plus a small welded plate at the rear for additional stability at the rear intake.

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Mounting door outer panel to door frame. Had the fiberglass shop that did my hood and rear spoiler throw together some fiberglass "angle iron". Bonded to door skin, rivets to the door frame.

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[beeman]

More fiberglass work to match the window seal contour at the rear of the door, aluminum template for layup.

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Fitting the door card, donor upper but will require fabbing lower part to clear the cage/side bars.

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[beeman]

Boxing in the side coolant pipes. Made 2 temples. Started with a flush top which looked really nice. Then I figured I would incorporate the door seal into the piece.

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Final design, should be a nice door seal with the weatherstrip.

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[Power Surge]

I love your attention to detail, as well as the patience that you have building this car. I haven't even had mine a year, and I struggle at times with how long I foresee it taking to complete my car.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Wow.....what an incredible amount of work you've put into that! Looks like it's coming along pretty nicely!

[beeman]

I love your attention to detail, as well as the patience that you have building this car. I haven't even had mine a year, and I struggle at times with how long I foresee it taking to complete my car.
Luckily I have other projects that I can bounce around on when I need a break. My GTM is by far 10x the work compared to the other car projects I have... But I think it will be my favorite when it's done.

[beeman]

Passenger side was the prototype, made great progress on the driver's side last night and today. Symmetry is the ultimate challenge here, especially starting with the asymmetric GTM body.
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[beeman]

Cut... Paste... Cut... Paste
Why is the site posting my photos rotated all of a sudden?

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[Power Surge]

This is such a cool build, Dave. I love seeing the progress.

[beeman]

Driver's door bodywork nearly done.
Was considering options for license plate mounting with the center exit exhaust, including below one of the taillights. Will mount it above the diffuser. Ordered diffuser strut mounts to finalize diffuser location. As it sits, diffuser angle is 18 degrees which is on the high end but I think it will be functional with the spoiler assisting it.

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[beeman]

Finished the passenger side rear trunk. Tons of storage space back there. Need to order more 040 aluminum to do the driver's side.

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[Power Surge]

Really cool engineering as always. Do you have a rendering of what you expect the car to look like when done?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Wow....you're going to have a ton of storage space there!

[crash]

Hey beeman. Looking at the rear picture you have there...don't mean to be negative or anything...but in my experience with these cars, you are going to need a lot more ability to evacuate hot air out the back of the car than what you have there. I understand that this is just work in progress shots and maybe you have a plan. Just trying to give you a heads up before you are too far down a particular path.

[beeman]

Mike- I'm hoping that my setup won't have significant heat issues. I'm going to use Shane's aluminum vented aluminum hatch insert instead of the supplied glass. I will have venting above the resonators on my rear trunk panel as well to help the exhaust heat to escape. I'm also dropping the diffuser which will open the rear quite a bit. I'm a NA 525hp so I'm not pushing the limits with forced induction, etc. What do you think?


Really cool engineering as always. Do you have a rendering of what you expect the car to look like when done?
I did one back in 2017 (holy cow), but quite a few changes since.
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[beeman]

Working on finishing the bodywork, found my way around to the engine air intake. Started analog with paper and Styrofoam, then realized that I will be making a mirror image on the passenger side (fresh air into the engine bay vs oil cooler) because it's going to look lopsided if I only put a snorkel on one side. So off to CAD, a bit rusty, can't remember the last time I used it. I'm using the existing Lamborghini Evo style intake that I drew up previously, now I need to duct that intake to the GTM body at the rear 1/4 window which feeds my airbox. The body has compound curves in this area, so I'm not going to be able to print something that will be perfectly formed to the body ( I don't have a 3D scanner). So I drew up a duct, will print it, and will blend it to the body and make a fiberglass part. Printing will help keep the driver and passenger sides symmetric.

Existing snorkel
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Abandoned the paper and foam pretty quickly...
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New transition part between snorkel and body, the 2 parts will mate together to make 1 part
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https://i.postimg.cc/pdC2mpBK/GIF-20250101-133243-368.gif

Again, loosely based on the Lamborghini Huracán GT3 EVO2

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[Ajzride]

[QUOTE=beeman;571383now I need to duct that intake to the GTM body at the rear 1/4 window which feeds my airbox. The body has compound curves in this area, so I'm not going to be able to print something that will be perfectly formed to the body ( I don't have a 3D scanner). So I drew up a duct, will print it, and will blend it to the body and make a fiberglass part. Printing will help keep the driver and passenger sides symmetric.

[/QUOTE]

About a year ago I started on the same task for my 818, scoops for the 1/4 windows to feed air box. I got 2 revs printed and test fit before I had to shelve the 818 for a few years. Hopefully you finish before I resume and I can improve my design based on your work :)

[crash]

Sorry the quote function is not working, but back to post 862...I ran a 525 LS3 for quite some time and it needed all the air evac I could get. I too have gone over to Shane's aluminum rear window and it works very well. Lots of air can move through that insert. HOWEVER, we did a string test to see how air is actually moving out of that louvered rear insert and you might be surprised that air is actually moving INTO the engine compartment and very little is moving out with that insert. Of course we have the entire rear of the car open for air flow so it might be different than what you have there. You can always cut it open later. That's what we did as we developed the race car. It started with everything intact and then went to more air flow as needed. Closing up the floor behind the driver and under the engine area really boosted the requirements for more air evac from the engine area. I also have wrapped the exhaust in four layers of Lava Wrap. We closed in the 1/4 panel vents after the fire where the driver got his suite singed by the flames that came forward out those vents. Probably not as big an issue if you are using those vents with a sealed connection to the engine intake. My suggestion is to leave the rear how you have it and just be prepared to open it up when/if it is needed. Maybe keep this in mind when building body supports and such.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Crash.....yeah, that makes sense if you have a really effective path somewhere for air to be drawn out of the engine bay....that it would be drawing air into that louvered window replacement panel. As you said, whether that panel draws air/heat out, or allowed fresh air in is going to depend on what other methods you're using to both get fresh air in and draw air out. If you install that panel on a car that has our diffuser louvers installed, I would fully expect for those louvers to have more "pull" than the hatch area.....so air would flow toward the diffuser. On cars without the diffuser louvers and a good path for air to be forced into the engine bay, I would expect that the heat/air would flow out of the hatch panel.

[beeman]

Some things aren't apparent until assembled and on the car. The first prototype had the contours of the snorkel continued towards the rear of the car, rather than perpendicular to the face of the intake. This has been corrected. (this isn't evident in the photos as spacers were added to correct this).

https://i.postimg.cc/xd57vLYx/GIF-20250104-205744-451.gif

The first prototype also had the face of the intake parallel to the surface of the car bodywork, rather than parallel to the duct body. This also has been corrected. (this also isn't evident in the photos as spacers were added to correct this). I also brought in the outer margins of the base about 5mm to better fit the 1/4 window recess.

https://i.postimg.cc/5yhk43q0/GIF-20250104-205545-192.gif

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[beeman]

Prototype 2.0. Contours flow better. Extended away from the body more. Now I'm concerned about aerodynamics/drag and will make another version that hugs the body closer.
What are thoughts about airflow in this region? Can I get enough air into these if the intake shape is attached to the body? Or do I need to get them up into airflow away from the body?
Did FFR ever release the GTM air tunnel results?

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[beeman]

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[Shoeless]

This is probably nothing new knowing your background and studies in race car aerodynamics, but i'm bored at work so I'll type away :cool:

I know your GTM is vastly different than the stock GTM, but I bet crash has some string and tape tests in that region he may be able to share. The focus is laminar flow over the body in this region. If I'm a betting man, with the mirror and window upstream of the intake, there is a lot of turbulent flow in this region. The more turbulent the airflow across the body, the farther you would want the scoop from the surface. If there was perfect laminar flow across the body you could tuck it right next to it. This is obviously all theory and would need relevant testing to validate.

I went through a similar exercise on front canards for my build. I never liked the "flat" 45 degree body feature that FF put in the Gen 2 version, so we cut that out, smoothed it over, and gave a fresh surface to start with. I was able to grab a set of universal CF canards from the same guy that did my mirrors and chose the size and location based off solid theory on location and size. Would a wind tunnel with smoke be a lot better to try for placement and size, absolutely, but we gave it our best guess on the theory. Plus, I won't super competitively race mine. I'll track it on fun days, but mostly a fun kick butt show car for me.

I'm not sure FF shared any wind tunnel data, but if they did, I'd love to see it.

[beeman]

I agree, Sean, I don't think there is much attached flow in that region. Plus the air tends to crash down off the roof, so I may angle the intake up some, or recontour the intake to "catch" more air at the lower aspect.
Side mirrors are still in development. I played around with a side mirror with the side intake installed, and could actually see more behind me that I figured I would. But probably will go with a pair of cameras with an lcd screen for each side, I had planned something like that from early in the build.
I do plan to track the car some, but also would like to do some 1/2 mile airport runs where drag becomes a major factor.
How's your car coming? Is it still in Iowa?

[crash]

Reply with Quote still not working, so...

"I know your GTM is vastly different than the stock GTM, but I bet crash has some string and tape tests in that region he may be able to share. The focus is laminar flow over the body in this region. If I'm a betting man, with the mirror and window upstream of the intake, there is a lot of turbulent flow in this region. The more turbulent the airflow across the body, the farther you would want the scoop from the surface. If there was perfect laminar flow across the body you could tuck it right next to it. This is obviously all theory and would need relevant testing to validate."

Yes things are also slightly different on the FFR PDG GTM race car. For instance, we use rear view mirrors that are attached to the front fenders. This gives us far better sight lines than in the original door/A pillar position. Likely also does not disrupt the airflow on the B pillar as much either. We are not allowed to use door windows on the race car so this area really is what it is. Not a whole lot we can do there besides getting rid of things that cause disruptions in the air flow. I did try and skirt the window rule with break out-able windows ala NASCAR super speedway design...tech safety people did not like...and then half windows...again safety tech did not like, so we have not ignored this area completely, but, like I said, because of safety concerns, we are kind of left with open windows. What I can tell you is that racing the car in the rain for hours at a time the driver and driver's area did not get wet even with open windows. This suggests that the air flow between 80 and 150 MPH, which is what we ran for speeds in the rain, does not try and stay on the side of the car on the sides of the greenhouse. We removed the side scoops, as I said earlier, for safety reasons, so again, it is kind of not an issue for us at this point. Therefore the working design is to just keep it as clean as we can. I did make the 1/4 windows "openable" by using a hinge on the front edge and screwing in the rear edge so I can access things like the fuel and dry sump systems via those windows. Proven to be very helpful for us. You may want to try and work it into your design. Ended up putting the hinge below the level of the fiberglass because the hinge needs to be in a straight line while the body in that area, as you have noted, is not flat our straight. Might be difficult in some cases if the scoops are attached and sealed to the engine intake system.

"I went through a similar exercise on front canards for my build. I never liked the "flat" 45 degree body feature that FF put in the Gen 2 version, so we cut that out, smoothed it over, and gave a fresh surface to start with. I was able to grab a set of universal CF canards from the same guy that did my mirrors and chose the size and location based off solid theory on location and size. Would a wind tunnel with smoke be a lot better to try for placement and size, absolutely, but we gave it our best guess on the theory. Plus, I won't super competitively race mine. I'll track it on fun days, but mostly a fun kick butt show car for me."

We used to constantly fight the front end grip issues that are inherent to rear and mid engined cars...until we changed to Fox Shox. Fox made us some custom shocks that are three way adjustable and we are now able to dial up and down the grip in the front end to the point that we no longer need canards. We still have a large front splitter, but with the adjustability of the Fox Shox and how the shocks also allow us to dial in at speed ride height, this allows us to use the front splitter to full effect as far as aero dynamic down force, and thus we don't need the draggy front canards.

[Shoeless]

Reply to Post 871:

Those 1/2 mile events look like a ton of fun!!! I also liked the idea of side cameras versus mirrors, but shelfed the idea for maybe a future effort. I could totally see putting in additional screens similar to what I have seen on other race cars for side mirrors.

Yup, my GTM is still with Shane and he is working on it full time. When I first shipped it out, we knew that it was going to be used as fill in work as he was finishing up his last project. I can't say enough great things about the process Shane has set up for his clients. We have been in constant contact clarifying details from my "request sheet" and executing accordingly. I regularly receive videos and photos with fit up and alignment clarifications/questions (e.g. canard size and fit up) to make sure I'm getting exactly what I'm looking for and if I need to think about or research something, he is flexible enough to pause on that item and focus on another as I make a decision. For me health wise this was the perfect decision for me to have Shane finish my GTM for me. I'm still struggling with lower spine issues and going through the very slow process of strengthening my core to help minimize any future injuries. Thankfully I know I will be able to enjoy this car once complete, but may struggle down the road being able to do any large builds like this again.

Reply to Post 872:

That's a great bit of information to have in my back pocket if I see handling issues. I had contemplated 3 way adjustable shocks, but landed on the custom Bilsteins that Ted at QRP offered some time ago.

[crash]

Ted offers(or offered?) good products. The Bilsteins you purchased should be the same as the originally developed ones for the FFR PDG GTM race car. Ted handled that for the team. They should be a good choice for both the street and track days. In reality the Fox Shox we have would be way too harsh for street duty even turned all the way down.

[Shoeless]

Reply to Post 874:

I didn't know these were originally developed for the FFR PDG GTM car, that's really cool and I'm glad I picked them up.

I say offered, as a handful of the items state out of stock on his website and I believe he needs a minimum order to get more of them, but I could be wrong on the minimum order for the shocks. I thought someone tried to get a couple items from Ted a while back and they were trying to pool up multiple owners to get a minimum order going. That very well may have been the front sway bar, so I may be confusing items.

[crash]

Yeah that was what I meant by my question/statement in parenthesis'. Just that I understand that Ted does not necessarily offer these items any longer as I have heard a number of people say they could not get orders filled from him. He, along with many of the rest of us, have moved on from offering GTM parts since the kits are no longer being sold by FFR. I am really not building any more parts for GTMs and once the items on the shelf are gone...they are gone.

[Power Surge]

I have tried to get in touch with him many times with no response.

[beeman]

Ordered one of these, should help prototyping. Wanting to make some changes to the front fascia too. Will help with interior part design too.

https://www.einscan.com/EinScan-h/

https://www.einscan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/titel-eincsan.jpg

[crash]

That is VERY cool.

I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to be able to scan a bolt pattern or multiple parts in order to combine and make a new part. I had thought about something like this after seeing them many years ago at SEMA, but they were always too expensive.

Laser welding, 3D scanning, and 3D printing are all areas I have really wanted to get into but just haven't.

Congrats on the new tool. Please let us know how it works out.

[Ajzride]

https://www.einscan.com/EinScan-h/



A 3D scanner is the #2 item on my list of things to buy (after a new ECU for my 818) once I sell my current project. Mind sharing a little bit about why you picked that specific one?

[Ajzride]

That is VERY cool.
Laser welding, 3D scanning, and 3D printing are all areas I have really wanted to get into but just haven't.


Hit me up if you want to have a conversation about 3D printing. I've been 3D printing car parts since 2009.

[beeman]

A 3D scanner is the #2 item on my list of things to buy (after a new ECU for my 818) once I sell my current project. Mind sharing a little bit about why you picked that specific one?

This is still a "consumer" grade scanner, although it's on the higher end. Not professional by any means ($15k +++). The $1k consumer scanners do ok for larger objects (6"+) but fall on their face scanning smaller parts/objects. Some of the brands rely on kickstarter purchases then the business model is to release a new model immediately. These don't perform very well at all. Anything under $1k seems to be junk unfortunately. You can probably get away with a $1k scanner. Shining 3D is a reputable company that makes $25k+ scanners and the cheaper scanners like the one I bought benefit from the software development of the "big boys". Software is a major contributing factor to a quality scan.


Hit me up if you want to have a conversation about 3D printing. I've been 3D printing car parts since 2009.

I've been printing for about the same amount of time. Always something new to learn, I appreciate any help I can get!

[Ajzride]

always something new to learn, I appreciate any help I can get!

I was directing my comment towards Crash, you certainly have a lot of experience with the craft. It is crazy how far it has come, I just found my first 3d printer a few weeks ago tucked away. Sanding drums for gears and shoestrings for belts.

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[Ajzride]

This is still a "consumer" grade scanner, although it's on the higher end. Not professional by any means ($15k +++). The $1k consumer scanners do ok for larger objects (6"+) but fall on their face scanning smaller parts/objects. Some of the brands rely on kickstarter purchases then the business model is to release a new model immediately. These don't perform very well at all. Anything under $1k seems to be junk unfortunately. You can probably get away with a $1k scanner. Shining 3D is a reputable company that makes $25k+ scanners and the cheaper scanners like the one I bought benefit from the software development of the "big boys". Software is a major contributing factor to a quality scan.
!

I had been eyeing this one. CoachBuilt on Youtube was getting really good scans of engine pieces with it:

https://www.einstar.com/products/prosumer-portable-3d-scanner?utm_source=googleads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PMAX-美国-11.11&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=2612356880&hsa_cam=21889172615&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAA9gbAeCKA35qp0yMXBglv9O59Jqx5&gclid=CjwKCAiAtYy9BhBcEiwANWQQLzphwSbQuLXauTzs6bv9 A4hv0e6TBO8jbRrYa-FLf0Wqu4D9tchocRoCS9oQAvD_BwE


Looks like what you bought is the next model up.

[beeman]

Just started playing around, very impressed with the capabilities, and very easy to use.
Gif attached 19MB, may take a minute to load.
https://i.postimg.cc/0j9xp4RP/GIF-20250209-163247-199.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/0j9xp4RP/GIF-20250209-163247-199.gif

[beeman]

Quick scan of the front bumper to see how it does with larger scans. It's still fairly rough with exposed body filler. Scanner didn't reliably see the edge of the fairly glossy hood, so I applied some scan spray which disappears after a few hours. Plenty of data here to mod the fascia.
FYI these are 0.5mm resolution scans.
Another large gif file in this post.

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https://i.postimg.cc/rwpfpySQ/GIF-20250209-192947-857.gif

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool!!

[Shoeless]

That's awesome!!!

In a prior life, we had to use a similar spray when we white light scanned parts for dimensional evaluation. These were machined F-135 engine parts for the afterburner section of the engine. Ridiculously tight tolerances and basically needed this method of inspection to prove every single point on a machined surface met the profile tolerances. Insane in that you needed basically a mini super computer to handle the amount of data it captured in about a 5 second scan.

[beeman]

Life has been very busy with kids sports. Working with a 3D mesh, I have had to switch CAD software. I was using designspark mechanical, which I really like. But it seems like everybody is moving to Fusion 360. Little bit of a learning curve, working with forms, surfaces, t-spines etc is completely different than what I'm used to which was basically creating drawings, then extruding, then filleting, etc.
So import the mesh into Fusion. Create a surface which matches the mesh. Create the surface shape of the part. Thicken and export as STL. Divide the part so it fits on the printer. Print and reassemble.
I'm leaning towards this style of intake vs the previous fancy design. I think this will scoop more air with less drag.
I'm going to redesign the front angle to point towards the corner of the rear hatch, like I marked in the attached photo, to better tie into the lines of the car.
Three gif's attached.
Thoughts?


https://i.postimg.cc/pdSXK2Pk/GIF-20250223-205544-188.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/cH81mVHW/GIF-20250223-205708-834.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/3NX8Mmmb/GIF-20250223-205801-758.gif

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[Ajzride]

Thoughts?



I'm not qualified to talk about how this will collect air versus the lambo design, but I agree it fits much better with the curves of the car. it's not too dissimilar to what I arrived at for my 818:

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[crash]

I like that you filled in behind the door frame. Cleans that up nicely. Not so sure about the angled scoop. I think a bigger picture view would maybe give a better idea of how it fits and flows with the rest of the body.

Roof scoops are along these same lines. What fits and works is one thing, and what actually looks good is another. I have seen plenty of functional roof scoops on prototype cars that I am sure work perfectly well, but IMHO, ruin the side view of the car's lines.

[beeman]

Mike-
I angled the scoop because every airflow/CFD analysis I've seen on a moving car shows air crashing down off the roof to the side of the car. I think that an angled scoop will more efficiently capture that air. Perhaps I should parallel the b-pillar angle for better aesthetics? What do you think?
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[crash]

Obviously if you run with your roof off it won't matter much, but I think you should at least mock it up with the same angle as the B pillar. I would just put some cardboard in there and paint it black and see how it looks from different angles while you move around. I believe in prioritizing function, but form is also super important in cars like ours.

[lance corsi]

I made a similar pair of scoops for my 818 but after I put them into place, I didn’t like the look. Mine parallel the B-pillar and bow outward to form a scoop. Mine are acrylic and allow a view of the candy store.

[beeman]

I've come to realize that there is a HUGE learning curve with surface modeling, much more so than general/mechanical CAD. It's very difficult to create precise surfaces in 3 dimensions that end up looking the way you want them to look and ending up exactly where you want them to be in space.
The initial plan was to incorporate my existing bumper (aftermarket MR2 Spyder) and modify the bumper to fit my needs, ie the radiator intakes and tying into the rest of the bodywork. After quite a bit of modeling and some thought, I decided to scrap all of the work I had done and start again from scratch. Looking around for OEM front bumpers that had dual radiator setups, I chose the Lamborghini Gallardo as the starting point. It was easy to find a 3D model. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as importing an STL file and modifying it, you cannot directly model an STL file in Autodesk fusion. So quite a bit of Hands-On modeling to create a t spline model which can be modified to fit the hood, headlight, fender flare, radiator, etc. I changed quite a bit of the shape of the fascia, leaving me with a pseudo-Gallardo front end, but it was a great shape to start with. At this point it just needs a couple areas of small touch ups followed by 3D printing.
I'll probably print a miniature to see it in the flesh. For the full-size, will have to break the model down into pieces that fit on the printer and then reassemble them. Options beyond that would be skinning with fiberglass or carbon fiber versus creating a mold and a new fiberglass bumper like I did previously with the hood and spoiler.
Three GIF files attached, fairly large, may take a minute to load.

https://i.postimg.cc/k5zvh34C/GIF-20250317-213702-258.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/MKMTK4bc/GIF-20250317-213849-065.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/4y78MMcQ/GIF-20250318-152024-744.gif

[Ajzride]

For my 818 I used a program called gravity sketch on the oculus. That allowed me to trace components of the car in 3D dimension, then literally use my hands to push and pull the panels to get the exact look I wanted. With the 3D scanner you could skip the tracing part (which was very clumsy) and just go straight into creating your shapes in 3D with your hands.

[beeman]

v2.0
Gallardo based, modified rad intakes to match my layout. Added dive plane for splitter.

212926212927

[beeman]

High speed prints at low layer resolution to see it in the flesh. Fits basically perfectly. Air forced into the radiators (will have full ducting). Going to make a couple of small changes.
Suggestions?

212928212929212930212931212932

[ohmygosuness]

v2.0
Gallardo based, modified rad intakes to match my layout. Added dive plane for splitter.

212926212927

Very interesting. Is your radiator going to be scoot to the side as well? I believe that's what these vents are for on the Gallardo. It also has one fan on each side behind these vents.

[beeman]

Radiators are vented to the wheel arches

[Shoeless]

High speed prints at low layer resolution to see it in the flesh. Fits basically perfectly. Air forced into the radiators (will have full ducting). Going to make a couple of small changes.
Suggestions?

212928212929212930212931212932

For some reason these are not loading for me :(

[Infinitybox]

Lets us know if we can be of any support! Exciting build, good luck.

www.infinitybox.com

[beeman]

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[Shoeless]

Nice!!!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool!!

[crash]

I can't wait to see the complete front end.

It looks like you considered a higher profile headlight lens by looking at the finger drawing in the dust? I think the higher lens would be my choice.

[beeman]

I can't wait to see the complete front end.

It looks like you considered a higher profile headlight lens by looking at the finger drawing in the dust? I think the higher lens would be my choice.

No plan to change the headlights at the moment. I want minimalist and lightweight, single projector on each side are plenty bright. The finger drawings are courtesy of my 9 year old :p

[beeman]

I think this is about version 6.0. Switched to Blender for the 3D design, it seems to do much better with organic shapes (vs Fusion, still will use Fusion for more mechanical parts). I really like it, printing passenger side now, then will finalize in fiberglass.


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[Ajzride]

I find gravity sketch on an Oculus perfect for organic designs. You can literally push and pull curves, edges, and planes with your hands and can look at them in 3 dimensions just by tilting your head.

[beeman]

I find gravity sketch on an Oculus perfect for organic designs. You can literally push and pull curves, edges, and planes with your hands and can look at them in 3 dimensions just by tilting your head.

Have you tried modeling and printing a part with gravity sketch? Would be cool to see in 3D. In Blender, you can 'paint' and give different finishes , ie matte to gloss, and see it rendered in 3D but it's still on a flat monitor screen.

[crash]

Wow beeman.

Super cool looking stuff.

[Ajzride]

Have you tried modeling and printing a part with gravity sketch? Would be cool to see in 3D. In Blender, you can 'paint' and give different finishes , ie matte to gloss, and see it rendered in 3D but it's still on a flat monitor screen.

You can texture and paint in Gravity Sketch. It's been about 3 years since I used it, so probably been some improvements, but at the time I could only export a mesh, which I then imported into Fusion and converted to a solid so I could cut it up (slicers only offered planar cuts back then) and 3D print it.

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[Shoeless]

I did all my GTM 3d printed modeling in Blender, mainly because it was free and wasn't terribly difficult to find YouTube videos on it.

Been a while since I used it, but very capable software to do what I needed it to do.

[beeman]

Just need to modify a couple of edges/gaps then some filler and make a mould. May sandwich the plastic in fiberglass instead. This plastic weighs about 6 lbs, 15% infill.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That's looking nice!!

[crash]

My thought is that the sandwiching will not work very well. The plastic likely will not bond well to the resin in the FG, and the 1/4" or so of extra "dimension" will not match the other panels.

My vote is for doing the extra work of making a mould and coming out with a proper finished product.

[beeman]

With this door design, with the power window structure as it is in the door, I don't have a great place to put a robust pull handle to slam the door (it would be an awkward angle, in line with the seatback) . Instead of stressing the door components with a pull handle in an ergonomic location, I installed BMW soft close latches. Pretty simple + and - installation, no external control module. Haven't adjusted anything yet but I really like this!

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https://i.postimg.cc/rsSf4XtN/GIF-20251023-140517-436.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/wTgVrrNY/GIF-20251023-140345-099.gif

[Ajzride]

Very Nice. How would those work with a popper?

[beeman]

Very Nice. How would those work with a popper?

I am not sure, I've never used a solenoid popper. These function like a normal latch, with the soft close as kind of an add-on accessory. Meaning you can still slam the door and bypass the solenoid. The latch will still work if the solenoid fails. The release to open the door is identical to any typical door latch. The soft close motor does nothing functional when you release the latch to open the door, although you hear a brief motor 'reset' after the door opens.

[beeman]

Modernized the headlights with a pair of projector LEDs. Cardboard Aided Design, followed by CAD.

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https://i.postimg.cc/vB7BmnFQ/GIF-20251022-213332-838.gif

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[beeman]

The beauty of 3D printing? Symmetry! I'm pretty happy with my analog hood fabrication, it wasn't very far off from symmetry to the driver side, as the printed fascia makes evident. Just a little trim will make it perfect!

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[beeman]

Started making a cubby for phone, Etc

https://i.postimg.cc/gjh1RqSg/GIF-20251024-122132-060.gif

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[beeman]

Tweaked the air inlet, 30mm bigger, which matches the hood line better and will allow more direct air to the radiator.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Very cool progress! Those door latches look like they should work great!

[beeman]

Cubby with cupholder (designed specifically for a 16.9oz plastic water bottle only) and Magsafe phone charger mount. Ditching the tablet, navigation and entertainment will be phone-based.

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[beeman]

Let me know if anyone wants my scans of the passenger and driver side intakes (STL files). Gen-1, but probably same as Gen-2? Threw this together this afternoon, it's on the printer now.

https://i.postimg.cc/HkmTNr6F/GIF-20251122-212007-014.gif

[beeman]

Not bad for a prototype. Thoughts?

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[doug_porsche]

Curious. Are you going to be scanning the rear quarter windows. Not the door glass but the window (potential engine vent) just behind the doors?

[beeman]

Curious. Are you going to be scanning the rear quarter windows. Not the door glass but the window (potential engine vent) just behind the doors?

This?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23183-Making-progress-on-my-build&p=574366&viewfull=1#post574366

[crash]

The side vents look great. Definitely an area that makes the car look unfinished or like a kit car if done wrong.

[Ajzride]

Not bad for a prototype. Thoughts?

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I do like these. Very similar to my plans.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Yes.....Gen I and Gen II side scoop areas are the same.....or at least enough the same that I can't tell the difference when installing my louvers there.

[beeman]

GTM has side intake similar to McLaren, may throw together a scoop type intake an see how it looks...

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[crash]

Actually the GTM is almost identical to a Porsche GT side intake...222123

I saw one in person and it struck me how identical the GT is to the GTM. I guess if it's good enough for a $2M Porsche it should be good enough for the GTM.

I do like your louvers though.

[beeman]

https://i.postimg.cc/K8Gsj575/GIF-20251127-182134-941.gif

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

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I designed and made the mould.....shipped the mould out to the place who was making all of my CF parts.....and the business switched owners, went bankrupt and the moulds are gone.....

[beeman]

Shane I forgot you had those, they look perfect for a scoop style. Are you still seeing a market for selling GTM body parts? Not sure how many GTMs are still being built.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I still sell some GTM parts every once in a while.....but no where near like 10 years ago.....of course.

[beeman]

Relatively shallow frunk makes it difficult to find a pair of hood struts that are long enough to give plenty of hood lift for frunk access, yet collapses enough to fit under the closed hood. Then you have to figure out the lift pressure needed (20N to 200+N...my hood is light but it's hard to find tall gas springs that aren't high N). Then the packaging issues through the range of motion of the gas spring,especially with targa roof storage in the frunk.
So I designed a twin strut around 8mm carbon fiber tubes. Fairly straightforward CAD design of pivoting mounts on the 1.5" chassis round tube, T's to connect the parallel tubes, and "sockets" that capture the rods on the under surface of the hood. The entire unit is weighed in grams, I'd wager this system weighs less than 1/10 what a pair of gas springs with associated hardware would weigh.

https://i.postimg.cc/WbyVR8sQ/GIF-20251218-195233-969.gif

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[beeman]

One benefit of 3D modeling is that Fusion can give you a cross section of any part of your model. Will be making a 3-part mould of the bumper, simple to print the parting flanges, which fit the bumper perfectly.

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Front wheel well liners made from 050 aluminum, minimum 1/2" clearance at full lock.

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Of course, the never ending side projects...or is the GTM the side project

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Cool Stuff!

[Shoeless]

Some cool progress!!!

[beeman]

Threw together a glove box to replace the hole where the passenger side airbag was removed from the donor dashboard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob0vyZocMko

[beeman]

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[Ajzride]

comning along nicely. I'm jealous of your 3D scanner.

[Shoeless]

I am totally digging that front end look!!! This is really coming together nicely!!!

[beeman]

Radiator ducting on the printer now, it is simply a sacrificial buck (205g of PLA filament, maybe $2 worth) that the fiberglass will be laid over, then peeled off the inside leaving the fiberglass duct.


https://youtu.be/5qG2jD2qEho

Going to make a mould of the front fascia, which required laying up a thin layer of fiberglass over the print, will sand/fill/spray epoxy the pull a mould.

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[beeman]

Finished the other side of the rear trunk. Between 2 rear trunks and a frunk, way too much baggage area in this particular GTM...

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The C5 trunk latch mechanism was too nice to throw in the junk pile. Power release, built-in "unlatched" indicator light circuit for dash warning LED, and cable backup if solenoid fails. Glassed in the precut areas of the rear hatch for trunk coverage, open central area to allow heat off the exhaust. I'm going to draw up louvers over the exhaust for Shane @vraptor to custom plasma cut for me. Getting spoiler positioned for bonding to rear hatch.

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[beeman]

Divided rear hatch into 2 parts previously. With re-routing the exhaust for central exit, no good place for a latch on the larger engine hatch. Glassed a flange that sits under the trunk hatch, trunk hatch now holds the engine hatch closed so no 2nd latch needed. Worked out well.

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[crash]

Just to maybe give a recommendation for a couple of things on the moulds...

If you are planning on vacuum bagging it is quite helpful to extend a lip all the way around the outside of the part so the mould has a place for the vacuum bag to fasten to. Also, if it were me, I would build up the mould quite a bit with layers of FG and maybe even some ribbing to make sure the shape stays correct when making parts from the moulds.

Did you use gel coat before laying down the FG or just straight FG onto the plug?

Great to see your progress. Thanks for sharing.

[beeman]

Just to maybe give a recommendation for a couple of things on the moulds...

If you are planning on vacuum bagging it is quite helpful to extend a lip all the way around the outside of the part so the mould has a place for the vacuum bag to fasten to. Also, if it were me, I would build up the mould quite a bit with layers of FG and maybe even some ribbing to make sure the shape stays correct when making parts from the moulds.

Did you use gel coat before laying down the FG or just straight FG onto the plug?

Great to see your progress. Thanks for sharing.

I'm on the same page with your recommendations. Up to this point, wanted to give a better preparation surface to the 3D printed fascia, basically reinforcing the 3D printed plastic fascia with a little bit of fiberglass to give it more strength and a better surface to prepare for pulling a mould, then pull a mould off of this using traditional techniques. Not sure if I will vacuum bag, I've never done that before.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Nice progress!!

[beeman]

It is pretty cool that you can three-dimensionally design this on a computer based on a 3D scan, print it, and it fits like you were right there designing it on the vehicle. But you can't really design a duct like this on the car, because you need to know where the duct meets both the radiator and the duct opening in the fascia. With the CAD software, you can show and hide both the radiator and the fascia, working with both of these in their anatomic positions in the car.

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[beeman]

The further down the rabbit hole you go, the tighter things get! Installing the Aerocatch hood locks. Not much space between the stored targa roof, hood prop base, radiator, and headlight but it's barely going to work!

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Finalizing fitment of the front fascia with the radiator ducting.

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[crash]

I got a set of those and looked into using them on the FFR PDG GTM race car, but they just didn't work out for a number of reasons. The front pins we leave long so we can remove the splitter and then prop the hood up on the long pins to get ground clearance when loading the car into the trailer, and on the rear deck the pins don't interface the deck perpendicular. Then there is the space issue you mentioned. I think the Aerocatch latches are cleaner once installed, but they are not an easy retrofit to a GTM...or at least our race GTM as it sits.

[beeman]

I got a set of those and looked into using them on the FFR PDG GTM race car, but they just didn't work out for a number of reasons. The front pins we leave long so we can remove the splitter and then prop the hood up on the long pins to get ground clearance when loading the car into the trailer, and on the rear deck the pins don't interface the deck perpendicular. Then there is the space issue you mentioned. I think the Aerocatch latches are cleaner once installed, but they are not an easy retrofit to a GTM...or at least our race GTM as it sits.

Makes sense. You probably did not have the hood hinged on the race car? I went with Aerocatch for a couple of reasons. I wanted more fixation of the front of this hood (at speed) than a single latch in the middle. Secondly, I did not have a good way of initially lifting the hood /getting my fingers under the edge of the hood to start lifting it, the pair of Aerocatch's lets me use the latches to lift to start opening the hood.

What's the latest with the PDG GTM? I miss the race updates.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I've had the same issues as Crash on those latches. I'd say they are meant to be used on something where there's no hinge and the hood can be lifted straight up off the vehicle. Once you try to use them with anything hinged....where the latched area doesn't move straight/vertical away from the latch, they're a real PITA.

Another issue I've had with almost all of them is that they work on a cam-action that pushes that pin thru the hole in the "striker".....and the way they're designed, they get jammed up to where that sliding cam action won't work.....and you have to reach down in there with some needle-nose pliers or some thing in order to get the pin to begin to move before you can get the latch handle to finish the job.

[crash]

What's the latest with the PDG GTM? I miss the race updates.

We had an incident a year or so ago where a driver that had rented the car found a tire wall. I then had a couple of family issues to deal with and the car has not been out of the trailer since that incident.

Good news is that Dave Smith and crew at FFR are helping with some of the body work/graphix/etc. and I am building a new engine/gearbox/brake package with ABS to run a 12 hour race this year in September. Lots of work going on, and we are going to derate the horsepower a bit and try some new stuff in the transaxle. I wanted to get a Gleason into the transaxle, but doesn't look like that will happen, but we are looking at alternatives.

I have been upgrading the trailer and communications for the race team so all the crew can have radios and know what is going on.

It really doesn't seem like the crash damage was that bad as the car drove into the trailer under it's own power and did not have any fluid leaks. Will have to measure everything though to make sure.

I'll get a thread going here soon about the rebuild project.

[beeman]

I've had the same issues as Crash on those latches. I'd say they are meant to be used on something where there's no hinge and the hood can be lifted straight up off the vehicle. Once you try to use them with anything hinged....where the latched area doesn't move straight/vertical away from the latch, they're a real PITA.

Another issue I've had with almost all of them is that they work on a cam-action that pushes that pin thru the hole in the "striker".....and the way they're designed, they get jammed up to where that sliding cam action won't work.....and you have to reach down in there with some needle-nose pliers or some thing in order to get the pin to begin to move before you can get the latch handle to finish the job.

I've only drilled a guide hole so far... is there a better option? I like that this captures/sandwiches the hood fiberglass within the devise, seems stouter than bonding a catch to the underside of the fiberglass that could delaminate at speed

[beeman]

I'll get a thread going here soon about the rebuild project.

Looking forward this! Sorry about the mishap...

[crash]

Oh yeah...to answer your question, no we do not use a hinge. Four pins, one at each corner of the hood, is what is used to hold the hood on. It does require two people to put the hood on. Although in a pinch I have done it myself by lifting on the front edge and the radiator opening, but it wasn't fun, or pretty. Considered just using the Aerocatch setup on the rear of the hood since those two are the only pins that would easily adapt, but I have three hoods, so the expense alone has kept me from doing that. Also looked at the rear deck, but besides the pins not coming in perpendicular, putting the Aerocatch mechanism in the rear deck, the way we have it on the race car with the pins up on top near the roof, would mean that a substantial amount of the reinforcing rib on the underside of the deck would have to be cut out. Just not worth the time, work, or potential problems they bring with them...at least not for the race car.

Oh, and BTW, just so maybe you are aware...the two rear hood pins broke the FG out when the crash happened. This may have been a good thing as they are easily glassed back in and there was no damage to the hood itself in those areas, but if you are worried about strength at speed(or crash survival and repair like we are on the race car) just keep it in mind that the area that is flat there under the rear of the hood where I would assume you are mounting pins is not all that strong. We had very large fender washers on those pin mounts and it still broke the FG and pulled the pin mounts out.

We did get lucky and the windshield is unbroken. WOO HOO!

[beeman]

Let there be sound! 10mm/4" speakers, created a speaker in Fusion from Pioneer's schematics, imported speaker STL into Blender with the dash and door card scans. The enclosure will replace the front of the Honda door card (plastic welded), then upholstery over everything.


https://youtu.be/WzgjKxRHcpY

[beeman]

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[beeman]

Prototype tacked into place, fitment is good. Will smooth it better in CAD and do final print.
Primary goal of this build is keeping things as light as possible... sound system is just a pair of 4" 2-way speakers, so efficiency is key, pointing right at the occupants.

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[beeman]

Aerocatch install. Game changer was finding 3D stl file for templating. 3D template lets you find the flattest position of the latch on the hood, paper template useless in this regard. Template also lets you position relative to the pin location. Template also has midline indicator so equal rotation of the latches can be achieved.

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