The EcoBoost is Dead...

[phil1734]

I imagine a lot of the old timers on here might not have facebook so re-sharing the news: https://www.facebook.com/factoryfive/photos/a.410470782335.189102.169610262335/10153857706992336/?type=3&theater

If you can't read it, here's the message:

"...We have held off developing the ecoboost kit for the 818C until there is enough interest. We can sorta talk you thru the mods we made if you want to do it custom as we did, but official tooling and a formal install kit are not available.

Dave Smith
President"

Can't say I'm too surprised. Guess it's time to start pushing for a 818E for the eventual gen2? (That's E for electric by the way.) Just need a a cheap readily available motor/controller and battery pack.

[redfogo]

I'm lost on how they came to the interest conclusion if it was never a for sale option.

[Hindsight]

My preference would be for a light, naturally aspirated engine with around 350hp for the track.

[phil1734]

I think once they got involved with it and realized how much work was required to make it work they knew that the price point would prohibit much interest, and no return on investment. Not to mention it only fit the coupe.

It'd be interesting to see how a GM high-feature V6 packaged. They're readily available (much more so than a NA Ford V6,) and I feel like a wider-but-flater V6 configuration would fit much better in a space designed for an EJ then a tall I4. Either way, the same technological hurdles exist. As the 818 has proven, most people here can deal with the mechanical problems. Those fancy electrons on the other hand...

[GoDadGo]

Here's an Off-Beat suggestion that would require a good bit of fabrication work but would likely save you a ton of money in the end.
Put a GM front wheel drive in an 818 sitting side saddle.
A North Star or Supercharged Buicks are quite pleantiful, especially in South Florida near Boca. (Search The 33331 Zip Code)
I know you won't have a manual transmission option, but a super low mileage Seville, Deville, DTS, Buick LeSabre and/or Park Avenues can be had for a song down there and none were ever dogged.
Yes, I'm Nuts Hense The Dark Side 383 Chevy Cobra With ZF 6-Speed, But The Cadi Coughs Up 275-Plus HP & A V/8 Would Sound Sooooo Sweeeeeeeet!

[Frank818]

My preference would be for a light, naturally aspirated engine with around 350hp for the track.

And you'd get that out of a 4-pot?

[Frank818]

I think once they got involved with it and realized how much work was required to make it work they knew that the price point would prohibit much interest, and no return on investment. Not to mention it only fit the coupe.

It really is a lot of work and investment to fit a different engine than the H4-H6 from Subaru.

[wleehendrick]

Here's an Off-Beat suggestion that would require a good bit of fabrication work but would likely save you a ton of money in the end.
Put a GM front wheel drive in an 818 sitting side saddle.[/B]

I believe Frank considered a transverse configuration for his VR6 powered 818, but ended up mounting it longitudinally. The amount of fabrication required was the deciding factor. Any motor mounted transverse in the 818 looks to require a lot of work, but I'd enjoy watching it happen.

On a related topic, the development of the new NSX was set back years when Honda made the design change to rotate the motor from transverse to longitudinal; even with a clean sheet, mid-engined orientation isn't easy!

[Hindsight]

And you'd get that out of a 4-pot?

No - was thinking naturally aspirated 6 cylinder. I just don't know of any off-hand that would fit in there and make that much power NA.

[Pearldrummer7]

No - was thinking naturally aspirated 6 cylinder. I just don't know of any off-hand that would fit in there and make that much power NA.

09+ boxster? They make 310 out of a DFI H6. I believe it's the 9A1 and 9A2 engine

[longislandwrx]

it's not dead, it's just not available yet. look at Dave's comments on other reply posts, which hint that down the road it's still an option.

[wleehendrick]

09+ boxster? They make 310 out of a DFI H6. I believe it's the 9A1 and 9A2 engine

That's the 3.4l motors from the Boxster/Cayman S, right? Any of the Porsche H6's from the 997 on make 300HP+, and could probably? be made to fit in the 818; a lot more money and effort than fitting a Subaru H6, but lots more potential, and already have a dry sump; perfect for someone wanting a NA for the track. I"m sure someone will put a Porsche motor in an 818 someday.... However, all the new Porsche motors, from 2016 on are turbo (except for the 911R with it's glorious 4.0L 500HP NA H6); 2.0 and 2.5 turbo flat fours in the Boxster & Cayman and 3.0l and 3.8l for the 991 911.

[FFRSpec72]

That's the 3.4l motors from the Boxster/Cayman S, right? Any of the Porsche H6's from the 997 on make 300HP+, and could probably? be made to fit in the 818; a lot more money and effort than fitting a Subaru H6, but lots more potential, and already have a dry sump; perfect for someone wanting a NA for the track. I"m sure someone will put a Porsche motor in an 818 someday.... However, all the new Porsche motors, from 2016 on are turbo (except for the 911R with it's glorious 4.0L 500HP NA H6); 2.0 and 2.5 turbo flat fours in the Boxster & Cayman and 3.0l and 3.8l for the 991 911.

The 993 was like 290hp and no additional weight for the cooling system

[wleehendrick]

The 993 was like 290hp and no additional weight for the cooling system

I didn't know any of the NA air-cooled motors made ~300HP, but 993s are turning into collector's items... that'd be a pricey donor!

[Frank818]

I believe Frank considered a transverse configuration for his VR6 powered 818, but ended up mounting it longitudinally. The amount of fabrication required was the deciding factor. Any motor mounted transverse in the 818 looks to require a lot of work, but I'd enjoy watching it happen.

Exactly. It's possible a different engine, like a I4, with transverse gearbox could fit in without suspension re-design, but for the VR6 with my 6-sp 02A gearbox it was by far not possible. I was lucky to be able to punch in a Porsche gearbox and flip the engine 90-deg around.



No - was thinking naturally aspirated 6 cylinder. I just don't know of any off-hand that would fit in there and make that much power NA.

You're not expecting Subaru H4-light, I guess?



09+ boxster? They make 310 out of a DFI H6. I believe it's the 9A1 and 9A2 engine

Porsche H6s are long, maybe if someone is willing to fit it through the rear FW and move the tank you could minimize frame modifications. Depends how far one wants to go in terms of frame modifs.


I'd really wish to see someone trying something outside the box. So far we've seen H4s, couple of Subaru H6s, EVs of many sorts, a VW I4 diesel (pictures only), a Rotary and a VR6, if I'm not missing anything.

[jcpresto]

5760257603

I'll be the first to say I love Porsche and it's all most my family owns except me now. It had crossed my mind since this was my previous track toy and was front end damage totaled in 2015 to attempt to use it. I was in a 5 car pile up hit behind and shoved into a Tahoe which I went under it and it landed on my front crushing entire car from dash forward being hit at 70 mph 1 car behind us and all at a dead stop except the guy who created the crash. It took a beating like a champ. Downtown Atlanta my son and I walked out while the car in front and behind both left on stretchers. It had a 3.8L 911 motor transplanted into it making 360 to tires with 911 GT3 full aero and track suspension with 195 mph top end(only had it 160 ish). I will say there are only 2 tuners I'd trust to transplant the electronics and it's 3000k just to make my 3.8L work with everything else. It was my favorite car so far (pre 818C). It would hold its own beside my brothers 2012 911 turbo S with 750 to the tires on the track....straight line different question lol. I'm hoping my 818C will perform good.

[flynntuna]

Hmmmm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/311645620963?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1588%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp% 253D110544638049_324272%2526itemid%253D31164562096 3%2526targetid%253D197635254009%2526rpc%253D0.04%2 526rpc_upld_id%253D73805%2526device%253Dt%2526mpre %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fu lk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F311645620963%25253Fl pid%25253D82%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla %2526googleloc%253D9031309%2526poi%253D%2526campai gnid%253D623566768%2526adgroupid%253D32762313249%2 526rlsatarget%253Dpla-197635254009%2526gclid%253DCLWryNWTx84CFY17fgodUdg MhQ%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1078178791203&ul_noapp=true

[flynntuna]

Then there's ,

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/chevy-43l-262ci-v6-engine-build/

For those who feel ambitious. :rolleyes:

[phil1734]

Those old 4.3s would weigh as much as the rest of the car :D

A Motus V4 with a ProCharger on it makes a compelling argument for the 300hp club, just remember that old saying about having to ask about the price...
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/american-v4

[longislandwrx]

I'm glad they actually built those Motus engines.. I remember reading about it on Jalopnik about 5 years ago thinking that was a cool idea... half an LS7

[Hindsight]

You're not expecting Subaru H4-light, I guess?

No, but remember, when going NA, you save weight on the turbo and all it's extra components that add weight like the intercooler and/or AWIC with all it's water, two heat exchangers, hoses, etc. I think what you would add in weight, would be more than made up for in simplicity and reliability.

[RM1SepEx]

GM's V6 should fit...

http://www.karlperformanceparts.com/p/12669645-3-6L-220-CID-V6-Chevrolet-LGX-Performance-Crate-Engine-Karl-Chevrolet/46462?gclid=CjwKEAjwltC9BRDRvMfD2N66nlISJACq8591P7 fremOoWwfCwhZMyRiD88gSshYMc16KhOyHo-RKkhoC0mvw_wcB

[codename Bil Doe]

GM's V6 should fit...

http://www.karlperformanceparts.com/p/12669645-3-6L-220-CID-V6-Chevrolet-LGX-Performance-Crate-Engine-Karl-Chevrolet/46462?gclid=CjwKEAjwltC9BRDRvMfD2N66nlISJACq8591P7 fremOoWwfCwhZMyRiD88gSshYMc16KhOyHo-RKkhoC0mvw_wcB

��!!

[Frank818]

They don't mention physical dimensions of the GM V6. You can have 3 of those for 1 Porsche 993 engine. :)

[AC Bill]

And you'd get that out of a 4-pot?

Will be soon..The RS would make a heck of a donor engine if they could configure the 818 for it.
http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/focus-rs

[jayguy]

Sure, but the RS is turbo charged and hindsight mentioned 350 NA.

[Frank818]

Will be soon..The RS would make a heck of a donor engine if they could configure the 818 for it.
http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/focus-rs

Yes, as well as the VW 4 turbo, the Civic Si, the Audi S3, the Merc Class A 45 AMG, but he wanted a N/A to make that power. Then it has to be a 6+, unless you put in an I4 N/A race engine, I guess. Or 2 motorcycle engines. :)

[phil1734]

The RS is a variant of the thread-starting ecoboost that has been abandoned.

The GM 3.6 above is roughly 19" long, 24" tall, and 21" wide (thanks Pirate4x4.) Those lengths and heights are incredibly close to an EJ motor, and considerably narrower. Best of all they can be had in any GM mid-size car or SUV anywhere in the world, from 2005+, and reach 335hp in NA form, 460 turbo. If only FFR had looked at those instead of just using what they could get from the Ford parts catalog.

[Loring]

GM's LFX would be a nice fit. You could mount it transverse or try and squeeze or modify to run longitudinal with the subaru trans.

335HP stock. Add nitrous as you see fit. 6cyl N/A.

[Wayne Presley]

That's funny you should mention the LFX, I just happen to have a complete 2012 Camaro donor sitting at the shop :cool:

[flynntuna]

That's funny you should mention the LFX, I just happen to have a complete 2012 Camaro donor sitting at the shop :cool:

http://giphy.com/gifs/hero0fwar-caddy-shack-ToMjGpz81S7usvTIM8w


Come on Wayne, you can't drop that on us without extensive details.

[Samiam1017]

isnt the nsx electric? there was a pre production car at a local hillclimb race and it made absolutly no noise. didnt really go look at it i guess i should have.

[longislandwrx]

57628

20B peripheral port?

[Wayne Presley]

57628

20B peripheral port?

Length is an issue with the 3 rotor

[C.Plavan]

I didn't know any of the NA air-cooled motors made ~300HP, but 993s are turning into collector's items... that'd be a pricey donor!

You can get a 3.2L or 3.0L and upgrade them to 3.6L HP easily by changing stroke & P/C's I should of done that to mine in the beginning. It would of been so much lighter, and sounded a ton better. The best part about Porsche motors is the ability to swap parts pretty easily...... GT3 cup oil pump in a 2.0L aluminum case..... etc.

[Hindsight]

What would be the cost for that Chad? With dry-sump.

[C.Plavan]

What would be the cost for that Chad? With dry-sump.

It just depends $9k- $18K for a rebuilt complete "Race" motor. It would not be cheap. But the motor already is drysumped, so there is no added cost. I just think the length might be an issue with a Porsche trans- then the cv issue.

I had a spare race motor, I sold it for the 818R Kit. I should of kept the motor.

Throw some PMO carbs on it and go.
Ecoboost would be cheaper however.

[wleehendrick]

isnt the nsx electric? there was a pre production car at a local hillclimb race and it made absolutly no noise. didnt really go look at it i guess i should have.

The road car is out now and it's hybrid... 500HP TTV6 mid mounted powering the rear wheels, with two small electric motors in front, and one in the rear. With all the halo cars from Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren being hybird, I guess they felt they had to go that route as well. The electric motors are more for fuel economy and handling (torque vectoring). It can operate in pure electric mode at low speed, but certainly not a hill climb.

They are developing an all electirc race car (http://www.autonews.com/article/20160621/BLOG06/160629966/acura-nsx-goes-mountain-racing-in-ev-mode) for Pike's Peak. Is this the one you saw? :cool:

[Samiam1017]

The road car is out now and it's hybrid... 500HP TTV6 mid mounted powering the rear wheels, with two small electric motors in front, and one in the rear. With all the halo cars from Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren being hybird, I guess they felt they had to go that route as well. The electric motors are more for fuel economy and handling (torque vectoring). It can operate in pure electric mode at low speed, but certainly not a hill climb.

They are developing an all electirc race car (http://www.autonews.com/article/20160621/BLOG06/160629966/acura-nsx-goes-mountain-racing-in-ev-mode) for Pike's Peak. Is this the one you saw? :cool:

the car i saw was the car at the pikes peak hillclimb, but they brought it to the giants despair hillclimb in northestern pa.

[turbomacncheese]

Now I know why some folk like the ecoboost so much.
https://youtu.be/jDVLlX5oU1w

[FFRSpec72]

Now I know why some folk like the ecoboost so much.
https://youtu.be/jDVLlX5oU1w

My 2.3 ecoboost is putting out 405 hp and 410 torque

[C.Plavan]

Fyi- drysump is available
http://www.mountuneusa.com/mountune-Dry-Sump-Kit-Ford-Duratec-p/e063.htm

[UnhipPopano]

Good dog and pony show. If Ford believed their own marketing, they would offer a better warranty than 60,000 miles. But if you believe the video, all those miles without an oil change or repair is quite an accomplishment.

[1932]

I just can not understand people that do not change oil and filter. It is the blood of engine !

[Frank818]

Now I know why some folk like the ecoboost so much.
https://youtu.be/jDVLlX5oU1w

Buying for the price of a new car an F-150 with a used 150k miles engine in it (and possibly no timing belt change and other stuff?) is out of the question for me. But it sure is a tough engine!

[turbomacncheese]

I missed that they weren't doing any oil changes. I just figured it was off camera. I have a lot of trouble believing the inside of that engine was that clean on the original oil. Part of the reason the longevity looks so good is that they warmed it up, ran it, and kept on running. Warmup is commonly regarded as the most wear-inducing cycle on an engine. Miles are one thing, cycles are another. Regardless of that, the sheer amount of work that engine was able to do, even if it was brand-spanking new, is impressive to me.

[Frank818]

I agree, a lot of force in there! I just find that odd, even if you start once an engine and run it 150k miles, you can't claim it's a new engine.
Besides they did many stop-start at freaking cold temps and warming it up to freaking hot temps within 15mins, that is bad from a cold start point of view.