Engine blown after 1,300 miles, what now?

[suttonb3]

I need some guidance. After 1,300 miles on a basic rebuild of my EJ255 (2006 WRX) I have spun a rod bearing and compromised rings on cylinder 3. Rod 3 has contacted the block between cylinders 2 & 4, and I assume the crank is shot. This is just my preliminary findings and when I start adding up the cost of fixing things I can't help but feel the need to ask for help. I realize that asking all of you to weigh in on my next course of action is probably similar to asking you to decide where my family should vacation this year: I'm sure there would be tons of great ideas, but which one is right for me? I don't have knowledgeable Subaru friends or a shop that I trust, so I'm coming to you. The sheer variety of combinations is dizzying.
Some guiding principles:

1. Big power is not my priority, reliability is.
Having said that, of course I want as much power as I can afford without making the engine fragile.
2. Unfortunately, budget is a big concern.
I am not a wealthy man and my wife thought we were finished spending money on this toy for now. I also don't want to cut corners, I suspect that may be why I'm in this predicament now. I reused many components in the rebuild that I would have replaced if money hadn't been such a concern. Now that I know how painful this is (and how quickly it happened) I wouldn't have pinched my pennies so tight.
3. I'd like to reuse every component I safely can.
Items I assume must be replaced or machined: block, crank, rods, pistons?, rings, bearings, oil pump, oil cooler.
Items I hope I can reuse: water pump, thermostat, timing assembly, heads, turbo +lines.

I have data logs from around the time I recognized the knock, photos of the sludge and bits of bearing in my oil pan, audio of the engine running with knock, compression test numbers, and pictures from inside cylinder 3. I'm happy to post these if it's helpful but I think at this point I want to stop wallowing and just focus on a forward direction. Thanks so much for your input!!

Ben

[wallace18]

IMO you would be best to buy a long block from a reputable builder. My 1st 818 had one from Colorado Certified rebuilders and was very reliable.

[Mechie3]

I've blown three motors in my wrx. I can post details later from a computer.

[Hindsight]

If you want a quality reliable setup for stock power levels, you can't go wrong with a brand-NEW factory short-block from Subaru. You can find them for like $1800-$2000 from companies like IAG, Flatirons, who get them directly from Subaru, but pay much less than retail due to having a wholesale account with them - they then pass some of that savings along to you so you pay less than if you went to the dealer directly in most cases. Have your heads checked out and rebuilt if needed, put them on the short block and add the additional stuff like water and oil pump etc and you are good to go.

[ben1272]

This may not be a great suggestion, but I will throw it out there anyways. My 2004 WRX donor cost me $2500. If you found a similarly priced new donor, you could pull its engine, use it and sell off the rest of the car, in pieces or all together. I recovered over $1000 selling parts from my donor and some recover even more. Upside is you might not have much work to do other than pull engine and swap (no heads to rebuild, etc) which could be done pretty quickly. Downside is you might get an engine that has its own problems waiting to emerge AND you will have to sell off the rest of the car which takes time and effort.

Sorry to hear about your trouble and I hope you find a good economical solution!

[Sgt.Gator]

Your predicament has come up many times on the Legacy GT forum. Rebuild your block with forged components, rebuild with oem parts, or buy a new shortblock? The community has come to the consensus (generally) that for 310-330 AWHP or less builds it is much more cost effective and in the long run much more reliable to do as Hindsight suggests, get a new oem shortblock. Heuberger seems to have the lowest cost SB shipped to your home pricing.
http://www.bestbuysubaru.com/

This has been discussed so much that we actually have an automatic acronym answer: ynansb (you need a new shortblock). You'll see the question come up again and again and the first post will be ynansb.

You'll also need the Master gasket kit and bunch more parts. I spun a bearing in my Spec B last spring, I went ynansb, plus support parts like rebuilt turbo, AVCS control valves, oil pump, water pump, timing kit... and I rebuilt it myself. Some of that stuff should still be ok from your last rebuild.

Pray that the metal shavings in your oil didn't destroy your turbo. Be sure to have it inspected closely because if it's ruined and you put it back on and it comes apart you will be rebuilding the engine a third time. For that reason a lot of guys go ahead and rebuild the turbo or buy a new one whenever the block has had issues and dumped metal into the oil.

We have an Engine Rebuild Thread Forum that you will want to review: http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/engine-rebuild-threads-engines-only-142.html There's usually a more understanding and helpful culture there than you will find on NASIOC.

[FFRSpec72]

maybe add a half dozen dry sump pumps also !

[ben1272]

I thought suggesting a new donor was a marginal idea, but alternatives sound pretty pricey!

[Loring]

Regardless, you can't drive it and will have to pull the engine out. Might as well do that and check the damage and see what went wrong. If you'd like some assistance, you're more than welcome to bring it out here.

[tirod]

Blew the motor in my old Forester with 220,000. #2 rod bearing which disintegrated and was pumped thru the motor. Yes the rod will hit the block as it bangs around, the space is so tight that the loss of a bearing allows it to hit the interior webbing. I pulled and tore down the motor.

The crank could be saved, and the journals in the block were ok. Most of the cylinders presented normal wear and a bore job was indicated. The major issue I had was when the bearing material was pumped thru the cam journals, which on the SOHC version are nothing more than precision bores machined directly into the head material. No actual bearings. The cams and heads could be saved but it was going to cost more money.

Short block was over 1,500 in parts and labor, less reassembly, heads another 450 to clean up the journals and cams. It was going to cost more than I paid for the car.

I bought a lower mileage motor from another state with a 90 warranty and it has been great, no oil leaks or consumption. That motor ran 1100. The only downside was the AWD transmission blowing three weeks after I got it running again . . .

Your damage and repair costs will be different but the essential thing to do is get it assessed by a reputable engine shop which can mike out the components. Once you know exactly what is damaged beyond repair then you can do the accounting and summary of costs. Right now it sounds like a basic matter of expenses - and another lower mile donor motor you can drop right it may be your most economical choice.

You are in a good place with it being an optional use car - when it's a daily driver the budget smacks head on with need. I would have liked to gone to an EZ30 installation but timeliness was of the essence. I don't regret the motor I got, the intent was to keep it as stock as possible to reduce costs as it's just a DD. However, in your case, there are more options and no rush to get things done. JDM motors are still coming over and are available.

[RM1SepEx]

When my rolled over 70K donor motor developed a knock I sought out Subaru experts. Lower end rebuilds are not reliable with the split case Subaru engines. A high end build by a skilled Subaru expert is $$ but higher power is available. I went the new Subaru short block route. IMO the other viable option is JDM, but there is more risk. Mine was reassembled by a friend who is the local Subaru dealer Service manager and I got a 3 yr warranty... with all the new bits rebuilt heads, belts, pumps etc.. cost about $3K

When you use a donor or any used engine it is a crapshoot. The std IC location is worry some and an early 2.0 oil pan is dangerous as well with the performance from these cars. Relocate and replace the Std IC to the side or go AWIC, use a STI oil pan or other alternatives.

[STiPWRD]

Ben, I'm not sure what your budget is but I'd also suggest getting a new 2.5L shortblock - this way you'll know you have a brand new motor with no issues that should last a long time. The block will come preassembled with crank, rods and pistons so you can either keep that or replace the pistons with forged ones (this will add about $500). This will allow you to run higher power later. Definitely replace your oil pump, oil cooler, head gaskets and get your heads inspected. I'd also suggest switching to an sti oil pan (cheap $40) and ARP head studs ($110). Once your engine is blown, little bits of metal can be very difficult to clean out of the oiling system so I'd replace as much of it as possible. Water pumps and thermostats are very cheap (about $30 each) so you might as well replace those too. If your timing belt and timing idler pulleys aren't new, I'd replace those too. This is basically the route I took and did the work myself (2.5L sti block, replaced pistons with forged JE pistons and reused wrx 2.0 heads). It was my first time doing engine work but it turned out fine with a little research.

One other thought - do you know what caused your motor to fail? You should try to address this if you can. Did it have high mileage? Did your boost run high? I'd highly suggest investing in some gauges - boost, AFR, oil pressure

[Mechie3]

I'm just here to repeat the new OEM shortblock. I've built my own, bought a used longblock, and done the new OEM shortblock route. The used long block blew headgaskets within a couple of months. When I got it the BPV nipple on the turbo inlet had been plugged with a clutch tool. Probably ran lean all its life. The rebuild was expensive but something I wanted to try. In the end a pinched o ring made it fail after 2k miles. With the new OEM shortblock I've put together about 3 or 4 engines that have all lasted. Local dealer gives Subaru club 20% off list prices.

Things you need:
OEM shortblock
Master Gasket Kit
Fuji Bond
New Oil cooler (or ditch it and go aftermarket)
New headbolts (sometimes can be reused but always better to just get new ones or ARP studs)

Things to do:
Inspect heads for warping and check cams and cam caps for wear. I've polished out cams before and lightly sanded cam caps to knock down any burrs if they're not bad.
Inspect turbo for debris and damage
Check valve lash after valves are installed on head

[Frank818]

You'll also need the Master gasket kit and bunch more parts.

Basically the shortest reply to his post would be: "ynansb and yantmgkabmp"?

[longislandwrx]

agreed. keep moving forward.


any reason you are in a hurry? Take your time and do it right... Once. This isn't a daily driver so what's the rush?

Save up the 1700 for a oem 2.0 block, get your heads properly cleaned, decked and rebuilt. Trash the oil cooler (it's shot)

Meanwhile if you are comfortable, watch every youtube video you can find on ej assembly, read every article.

If you are uncomfortable (and it's very easy to get gun shy after an engine failure, we've all been there) do you research and find a reputable Subaru engine builder. It may be cheaper than you think for everything if you buy the parts from him, as his pricing may be better than yours.

in the meantime, there are plenty of free projects you can do on your car. clean up the wiring, detail the hell out of it, keep working on the bodywork etc etc.

you don't want to be in this place again in 6 months

[Mitch Wright]

Some great advice from Long Island.

[suttonb3]

Wow, once again I'm floored by the support you guys offer. My non-car-guy friends have been beating me up pretty bad about this, so it's great to see some constructive input. You can see their eyes go wide when I shrug and say, " Yeah it sucks, but it's just part of the process."
Anyway, my wallowing is pretty much finished and the wife has come to terms that more $$ must be spent so I'm formulating a plan based on your ideas. I'm thinking oem short block and reuse what I can to keep costs down, replace what I must with the best possible parts to improve reliability. This raises a bunch of questions.

I see that EJ257 blocks cost the same as a direct- replacement EJ255. Is there any benefit to using that? I think it would give me slightly higher compression (which isn't really a good thing in a boosted car, right? ) but would it be an "upgrade? "
Which oil pump should I buy? I remember reading that one year was better than the rest. Go dry sump? Also, I thought I read that my 2006 WRX oil pan was the same as the STi. Is an aftermarket oil cooler a worthy upgrade? I'll add a Killer B oil pickup this time.
Heads were bench tested and decked 1,300 miles ago (but not rebuilt) can I reuse them?
I will add ARP head bolts this time.
Water pump, thermostat, timing set have 1,300 miles on them. Do I really need to replace?
Other than checking wheel movement on the turbo, how do I know if it's damaged? I replaced all the banjos that had screen filters in the oil lines, I'll do that again. Can I flush those lines out or must I have it done/ replace them?
Gauges were on the list, I just hadn't gotten to them yet. My Cobb Accessport shows many parameters, but what are the "must have" gauges? Oil pressure, AFR, boost?

I can't thank you guys enough for your input!

Ben

[STiPWRD]

Ben, the EJ257 block is used in the sti and has better oil passage design than the 2.5L short block used in the wrx (EJ255). It may also be stronger and I believe it also comes with forged rods. Both the EJ257 and EJ255 come with cast pistons (I'd suggest replacing with forged pistons). The EJ257 is an upgrade over the EJ255 and I think it is dimensionally the same (bore and stroke) so it should preserve the same compression ratio. Having the cylinder heads decked will however slightly increase your compression ratio, but it's nothing to worry about.

Here's the setup I'm running (with part numbers):
EJ257 Short block 10103AB4409L
Gasket seal kit 10105AA560
Oil Pump 15010AA300
Cylinder gasket 11044AA642
Water pump 21111AA240

For what you're goals are, I don't think you'll need a dry sump or oil cooler unless you plan on road racing.

The killer B oil pick up and ARP head studs are a good idea.

How many miles were on the heads before they were decked? I would inspect them for flatness and check cam to bucket clearance.

You can probably reuse the water pump, thermostat, and timing belt since they only have 1300 miles on them.

Check your turbo for excessive shaft play. But otherwise it sounds like you've cleaned out the lines and fittings. Turbo rebuild kits are fairly cheap and there are youtube videos on how to do the work yourself if you chose to go that route.

[longislandwrx]

I see that EJ257 blocks cost the same as a direct- replacement EJ255. Is there any benefit to using that? I think it would give me slightly higher compression (which isn't really a good thing in a boosted car, right? ) but would it be an "upgrade? "

no upgrade, would just change the compression.
study this thread.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1667168

Which oil pump should I buy? I remember reading that one year was better than the rest. Go dry sump? Also, I thought I read that my 2006 WRX oil pan was the same as the STi. Is an aftermarket oil cooler a worthy upgrade? I'll add a Killer B oil pickup this time.

dry sump overkill unless you are tracking, for a mild setup most people like the 11mm pump (15010AA360) however everyone's got an opinion on this, do more research and see what works for your goals. most people have been ok without a cooler. The kb or any aftermarket pickup is a good idea

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27383408&postcount=36

Heads were bench tested and decked 1,300 miles ago (but not rebuilt) can I reuse them?

just make sure you clean them extremely well, debris clogged heads cost a good friend an engine,

I will add ARP head bolts this time.
Water pump, thermostat, timing set have 1,300 miles on them. Do I really need to replace?

I would change the belt at a minimum, inspect the rest

Other than checking wheel movement on the turbo, how do I know if it's damaged? I replaced all the banjos that had screen filters in the oil lines, I'll do that again. Can I flush those lines out or must I have it done/ replace them?

do you know for sure it was good before the failure? or are you assuming? You don't want to send more metal back into your new engine.

Gauges were on the list, I just hadn't gotten to them yet. My Cobb Accessport shows many parameters, but what are the "must have" gauges? Oil pressure, AFR, boost?

oil pressure and wideband a/f. An analog boost gauge is useful to verify your sensors are working properly, but the AP does a great job at displaying most things like that.

I can't thank you guys enough for your input!

hope it helps

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ben,
Have you determined what caused the rod bearing failure in the first place?

I have lost 3 in my 40 years of driving:
1: 68 chevelle SBC with bad quadrajuck carburetor. Leaking into cylinder#8 causing hydro lock. Wouldn't turn over with the starter, so I rolled it down a hill and popped the clutch. I was stupid then.

2. 87 v6 3.8L spun bearing because I only changed the oil every 15k-20k. I was Lazy.

3. 06 Subaru impreza NA wagon. I didn't check the oil level before an auto cross event. I am still stupid.

There is a reason you spun the bearing. I would want to know why before deciding where to put the money.

Here is a nice document on failures. http://kingbearings.com/files/Engine_Bearing_Failures_and_How_to_Avoid_Them.pdf

Bob

[Sgt.Gator]

^ What LongIsland said; I would add:

The Moroso oil pickup is excellent and costs 1/2 of the Killer B pickup. The new OEM STI oil pickups are fine too. The ones that failed were due to the wrong flux in the weld process years ago. I haven't heard of any new ones failing. And it's a LOT cheaper than Killer B or Moroso. You'll want the OEM STI pan with it.

I would replace the OCVs just in case you have some metal bits in them that could come loose later. 10921AA080 New OCVs VALVE ASSEMBLY-OIL CONTROL (2).

If you are using the factory oil cooler/oil heater you should replace it or leave it off. Getting the metal bits out of it is almost impossible and not worth the risk.
21311AA051 Oil Cooler

A couple of other Misc parts while you are doing it:
21210AA030 Thermostat
11051AA070 Plug- Cylinder Head (4) (Half Moons)

Many small vacuum hoses replaced with silicone hose from bulk.
Loctite & Permatex Blue
Permatex Copper Gasket Sealer
Permatex Thread Sealer
Permatex Right Stuff
Redline Assembly Lube
Mobil1 Euro Spec 0W-40
Radiator Coolant
Hi Temp Brake- Clutch Fluid for Clutch bleeding.
A bunch of hose clamps.

Tools:
Kobalt Triple Cut (Lowe's & Amazon) razor blade scissors. Awesome for cutting a perfectly square and clean hose end on rubber or silicon hoses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCGJLdKynA

Tekton long nose pliers, Straight, 45 degree, 90 degree. In Particular the TEKTON 3492 11-Inch Long Reach 90-Degree Bent Nose Pliers. This is one of those tools that after you use it you say why didn't I buy one of these 20 years ago? It's PERFECT for getting at those OEM squeeze hose clamps that are buried in impossible to reach places. The 45 and 90 pliers saved me a TON of time removing and installing OEM style hose clamps.

And the ATD Tools (813) 11'' 3-Piece Ring Nose Pliers Set. Great for breaking a stubborn hose loose. Grab the hose, twist, the seal breaks and it comes off.

UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SRH5G.

Finally, my very own Colonel Red Racing Seal Installer. I modeled it after the Subaru ST for installing axle seals in the tranny, but it turns out it's perfect for that and the oil pump seal, and the cam seals. It's made out of heavy duty plastic and works fine with a rubber mallet. Since it's plastic and not steel, if you screw up and smack it too hard and off center you won't bend any metal edges on your engine or tranny, the plastic will give first. If you'd like to obtain one shoot me a PM.

[Loring]

I'm with Bob on this one. Determine the root cause of the failure so you don't repeat it, even on the off chance it was an external cause.

Also, when you drain the oil, take a note of the quantity of metal in the oil.

And just because nobody's asked, how did you determine that it's definitely a rod bearing?

[Samiam1017]

a ej257 will give him slightly more compression over the ej255, that's the same set up I have

[suttonb3]

I used this technique to determine the knock is coming from cylinder 3. Not exactly high tech, but effective.

https://youtu.be/pYleKxjl0uY

On a compression test cylinders 1,2, and 4 were all within 3psi of each other, cylinder 3 was 20psi low. Adding a little oil to cylinder 3 and repeating the test brought the compression in line with the others. Maybe cracked ringlands? A short time after the rebuild I tested compression and they were all even so cylinder 3 running low is new.
There is a ton of metal in the oil pan, I hope this photo shows it well enough.
I guess I should explain that about 30 minutes of *spirited * driving preceded the knock. Translation? I had just gotten off work and was taking buddies for joyrides on a deserted road. It was running great until it wasn't.
If I had to offer a very uneducated opinion on the cause I'd say a lean condition caused detonation. I was running an off the shelf Cobb stage 2 tune but I knew it wasn't quite right. The engine and turbo are stock but I have Cobb sf intake, tgv delete, Cobb up pipe, bell mouth 3"exhaust with a tiny Flowmaster, no cat. I had been driving it relatively easy to break it in, but when I hit 1,000 miles that went out the window. I knew I needed a custom tune, but found it impossible to locate a tuner I trusted. I'm afraid my inability to let someone else work on my cars did me in this time.51751
51752

[Loring]

Yep, that's a lot of metal.

As far as letting other people work on my car, machine work and tuning are things best left to people who do this on a daily basis. Whatever you end up doing (OEM SB?), obviously be sure to flush all the external oil passages. I'd also change the oil filter after the new startup after 30 minutes of runtime and inspect the oil. Have new oil on hand in case you need to change it.

[longislandwrx]

seems fine for a stage two map, obviously the tgv deletes were outside the parameters. Lots of people run a stage two map with tgvs though with just the codes disabled.


where did you get this engine? I'm assuming it failed previously so you rebuilt? did you reuse the oil pump? what was your oil pressure? Also what spot is your thrust bearing in?

[Sgt.Gator]

ynansb !

[suttonb3]

seems fine for a stage two map, obviously the tgv deletes were outside the parameters. Lots of people run a stage two map with tgvs though with just the codes disabled.


where did you get this engine? I'm assuming it failed previously so you rebuilt? did you reuse the oil pump? what was your oil pressure? Also what spot is your thrust bearing in?

The engine was from my donor, a 142,000 mile 2006 WRX. I was able to drive it before teardown, and it seemed to be in good condition. I had to wait a year for my kit to arrive after ordering so i figured replacing wear items was prudent. I could have stuffed everything in there but i wanted a reliable car. I replaced bearings, rings, water pump, timing components. I was going to replace the oil pump but the guys i bought parts from (Flatirons Tuning) said there was no reason to since there hadn't been damage to the engine. I had the heads bench tested and decked. I did nothing to the injectors, pistons, crank, block, or turbo.
I don't have any mechanical gauges yet and i can't see oil pressure as an option on my Cobb, so i don't know what pressure was. I know it doesn't mean much, but the dummy light never came on and I never ran it low.
I don't know what spot my thrust bearing is in.

I'm just now getting some time in the shop, spring break and kids' birthday have prevented it lately. I still don't know the extent of the damage, but finding the cause is first priority. Then i need to decide which short block to buy, i still haven't studied the 255 vs 257 discussion.

I really appreciate you guys still chiming in on this, I have a lot to learn and I want to make doubly sure i do it right this time!

[longislandwrx]

Looking at the contact and scuffs on the block it looks like your crank may have walked quite a bit causing the contact and all sorts of mayhem, and thus I asked about the thrust bearing, I would be interested to see what the bearings look like when you pull the crank.

[Loring]

Same here, but it's gotta be a phase 2 block, yeah?

I'm guessing its an oil issue though that doesn't mean the pump caused it. That said, anytime you've got an engine apart, especially one with some miles, replace the oil pump. They're too cheap not to.

[suttonb3]

Just an update, I finally got a reply from Cobb after they analyzed the data logs I performed right before "the incident."


Adam (COBB Support)
Mar 27, 9:49 PM

Hi Ben,

I finally had some time to review you logs. Sorry for the wait.
The car is definitely making some noticeable timing corrections. It is a bit odd though, some of the logs look ok, then a couple others are more problematic. In two of the logs the car is dropping DAM noticeably, that is typically a sign of either a bad tank of gas, or otherwise there is some issues resulting in repeated detonation. If that is the case, then the first thing you always need to do is do all the usual checks, plugs, MAF sensor, smoke test etc. IF you don't make any progress there, you may want to log your fuel trims or other fuel system related things to make sure you are not leaning out or something like that.

Ultimately, its hard to say from the logs what the exact source of the problem is, but the car is making significant timing adjustments, so I would hit the basics first, then go from there or even visit a shop if needed.

[suttonb3]

The short block arrived but it definitely went through the ringer during shipping. Even though the crankshaft was riding the crate hard it appears ok. This couldn't have messed with the thrust clearance, could it? The only obvious damage I could find was on this edge. It's probably no big deal but as prone to head gasket issues as this engine is I figured it's worth getting your opinions on. What do you guys think, do I need to make a claim against UPS? 52733
52734
52735
52736
52737
52738

[STiPWRD]

It sure would suck to put that engine together only to have it possibly fail because of shipping damage. If that box showed up at my house I'd probably start a claim, especially if the box is clearly marked fragile and is that torn up.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What do you guys think, do I need to make a claim against UPS? 52733

52738

I don't think I would worry about the small dent in the corner of the block. It is not a sealing surface as shown in these pictures.
Bob

52739 52740 52741

[longislandwrx]

I agree with STiPWRD, I think I would put in a claim, I would be concerned someone dropped it off a forklift/handtruck

[Sgt.Gator]

It should have come with yellow banding around the outside of the box too, like this. In this pic I've already cut one band off:
52761


You should file a claim.

[AZPete]

The shipper is the one who has to file the claim, not the recipient. You can call the shipper to report damage and they will file the UPS claim.

[suttonb3]

I'm sure it would be fine but like was said before: imagine if it wasn't. The whole reason I bought a from-the-factory short block vs. rebuilding was to remove the idiot factor (me). I can roll with the punches but I'm sure my very understanding wife would veto a 3rd engine. I sent an email with these same photos to Flatirons about 35 hours ago and have yet to hear from them. Since tomorrow is Friday if I don't get a reply by early afternoon I'll give them a call.

[RM1SepEx]

I'd get a new one, it was damaged, subaru/engine source contracted shipment, ups picks it up and takes it back

not worth ANY risk

[Mechie3]

My concern would be if the crank was getting hit it was applying (potentially) some decent impact to the thrust bearing. Risk vs. reward. Middle case, they deny your claim and you build it but nothing happens, best case you get a whole new block and peace of mind, worst case you build as is and something happens.

[Loring]

File the claim. That's a good reason for the supplier to deny a warranty issue should it come up. Considering you luck thus far, playing it safe is the good bet.

[metros]

UPS Doesn't handle items labeled fragile with care?! What?!

My UPS experience:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/mxmetros6/818%20Build%20Album/20140702_182155_zpsde9cpryr.jpg

[suttonb3]

UPS Doesn't handle items labeled fragile with care?! What?!

My UPS experience:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/mxmetros6/818%20Build%20Album/20140702_182155_zpsde9cpryr.jpg

Oh man, that hurts to look at!

I talked with Flatirons on Friday and it didn't go so well at first. The guy I was talking to said that UPS was unlikely to agree to replace it based on suspected damage. He said that if I had pictures of a broken vase (for example) things would go my way much easier. He said I had nothing to worry about anyway, the damage is way outside the sealing surface and he's put engines that had the crank bust through the crate into cars without issue. I told him that the reason I'd bought a short block was to remove the worry, but now I can't help but worry. He agreed to file a claim, but I was instructed not to get my hopes up. He called a few hours later to tell me that the claim had been filed. UPS is picking up the crate today and shipping it to an "inspection warehouse" somewhere in Florida, where the adjusters will take a look at it and make a decision. He seemed more confident that they would replace it, stating that there was no question the package was abused. I hope he's right, I can't imagine what kind of condition it'd be in if returned to me.

[wleehendrick]

The guy I was talking to said that UPS was unlikely to agree to replace it based on suspected damage. He said that if I had pictures of a broken vase (for example) things would go my way much easier.

Good luck, and hopefully UPS doesn't push back. The damage is not 'suspected'; From the appearance of the packaging, it's obvious it was mishandled, and the block did sustain (external) damage as a result. Whether or not this affects it's functionality/longevity is debatable, but irrelevant. UPS is responsible and you should not assume any additional risk as a result; UPS is free to take possession of the block and sell it as a salvage then the risk is on the next buyer and the value would be adjusted accordingly. You paid for a new block and deserve to receive a pristine one with no worry.

I'm still pissed at UPS and DHL for multiple damaged/lost shipments that delayed our home renovation project last year, so I'm not inclined to cut a shipper any slack for obvious mishandling.

[AZPete]

Sutton, there are two separate contracts here. 1. You paid Flatiron for merchandise, hence you must get satisfaction from them, not UPS. It's your decision to accept it as is, or return the damaged item. You should request a solution now and not let them delay by saying they need to wait for UPS to evaluate their claim. If Flatiron won't refund or replace the engine, you can most likely get a refund through your credit card issuer.

2. A separate issue is that Flatiron contracted UPS to deliver their product so they must deal with UPS. I ship a lot of very fragile stuff via UPS and know that if it was packed according to the UPS specs, and the shipper bought UPS insurance, UPS will pay for the repair or replacement to the shipper. Once UPS picks up the damaged shipment they will inspect it for damage and how it was packed to determine if the shipper's damage claim is valid. UPS will then return the engine to the shipper, perhaps at an additional cost. If the damage claim is not paid by UPS, it shouldn't influence the shipper's obligation to you, their customer. Keep the two contracts separate and don't let them suck you into their contract with UPS.

[Loring]

I'm happy that he said you've got nothing to worry about. I'd have him send that in an email just so if there is an issue and he's forgotten he said that, you can show him.

[lance corsi]

Concerning your engine failure, I might suggest to look closely at the oil pump. The seal @ the crank interface is subject to failure, as well as the flat head screws used on the back side. They tend to work loose, hence the oiling problems. Personally, I think a dry sump system is unnecessary, especially for primary street use. Take a look at my thread for the solution I am using.

[suttonb3]

Concerning your engine failure, I might suggest to look closely at the oil pump. The seal @ the crank interface is subject to failure, as well as the flat head screws used on the back side. They tend to work loose, hence the oiling problems. Personally, I think a dry sump system is unnecessary, especially for primary street use. Take a look at my thread for the solution I am using.

No news on the block replacement but I did have an interesting visitor yesterday. I've become acquainted with the former owner of a local speed shop, he estimates he's built close to 1,000 EJs over the years. He was interested in checking out the 818, and I was interested in his evaluation of my bad engine. He was able to determine the bad cylinder just by looking at the tops of the pistons. There was a pattern on cylinder 3 that he associates with detonation. Of course I knew that cylinder 3 was the bad one, but he didn't before making his comment. So now why do we have detonation? Upon closer inspection a small tear was found in my turbo inlet pipe. He thinks the tear combined with my off-the-shelf tune was enough to run lean. We also pulled the oil pump off together because he wanted to see how I applied the gasket maker. He said the overuse of gasket maker has brought about the destruction of more engines than just about anything. He said that overall I did a decent job, but I applied more than he'd like to see near the o-ring (sorry, I'll have to post pics tomorrow.) He said the gasket maker can prevent the o-ring from sealing perfectly and will allow oil to bleed back to the pump, resulting in lower than ideal pressure.
He added a few items to my should-replace list that I didn't anticipate. First was the oil pan. He said there's just no way to get every bit of debris out and it's not worth the risk. If that's the case, which oil pan should I use? I bought the Moroso oil pickup and have stock headers.
Next was the AVCS (I have it only on the intake side). He said there's small oil passages that are difficult to clean. What do you guys think?

[Loring]

I tend to agree, but I'd certainly defer to his expertise. Generally speaking, adjustable cam gears (as well as other things with small orifices like HLAs and such) are nearly impossible to clean properly.

[Sgt.Gator]

STI Pan.
Yes on the AVCS.

[suttonb3]

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Ok, time for an update! Unfortunately the mildly damaged block was completely destroyed during return shipping. Flatirons sent me a new one (using FedEx!) but now they have to fight with UPS. I have to give them credit for being very patient and helpful with all of my questions.
I have finally assembled all the parts, now it's time to put them together. TD04 was rebuilt, heads professionally cleaned, pressure tested and decked, injectors cleaned and flow tested (I never did this during the original rebuild) new oil and water pumps, oil cooler, thermostat, Moroso oil pickup, ARP head studs, master gasket set, AVCS, Perrin turbo inlet. I took a few hours and detailed my oil pan, taking care to hit all the crevices on the back side of the baffling. Tedious for sure, but I figure my time is worth $50/hr plus I've been told my 2006 WRX pan is the same as the Sti and I can't find evidence to refute this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[AZPete]

Congrats for coming out of this mud bog with a shiny new block and in great shape to build the engine you want. Your perseverance paid off and your supplier now has a solid reputation here.

[coloskydiver]

+1 on Flatirons Tuning. I bought my block and majority of engine components through them and they are extremely knowledgeable. Glad everything worked out for you.

[suttonb3]

+1 on Flatirons Tuning. I bought my block and majority of engine components through them and they are extremely knowledgeable. Glad everything worked out for you.

Agreed. All things being equal, I'd prefer to give my business to a local company. But these guys have been so knowledgeable and helpful they have earned my business for sure.

[longislandwrx]

Unfortunately the mildly damaged block was completely destroyed during return shipping. Flatirons sent me a new one (using FedEx!) but now they have to fight with UPS. I have to give them credit for being very patient and helpful with all of my questions.

If it's not broke, fix it until it is. Impressive that UPS can't even ship something to themselves without damaging it.

[suttonb3]

If it's not broke, fix it until it is. Impressive that UPS can't even ship something to themselves without damaging it.

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True, but even the short block that was delivered FedEx showed up with this bent stud (for the transaxle, sorry I don't have the photo editing savvy many of you do) , and the box was in perfectly fine shape. I'm starting to think that Subaru's "crate" needs a redesign.

[suttonb3]

I need a little help installing this new oil cooler. My FSM shows 2 o-rings (marked "H") between adapter A and B.

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I just took the old one apart and only found one o-ring, in the groove on the aluminum adapter.

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In my master gasket set i found an o-ring that fits (the one I'm pointing to with the pick, I'm not sure it's needed) , but it just doesn't seem right, and I NEED to make sure it's right.

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Also, the center of these adapters don't seem right, though there really isn't another way for them to line up.

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Thanks for your thoughts!

Ben

[Sgt.Gator]

Ben, Sorry I didn't see your questions above because I apparently wasn't subscribed to this thread. Did you figure this out?
I'm asking because the FSM pic you have is nothing like the ones I've used for an STI or LGT. There are no adaptor plates A & C on any of the EJ255 or EJ257 blocks I've worked on. What FSM is this from?

This is the way I've always seen them:

http://parts.subaru.com/images/parts/subaru/fullsize/G11_03301028.png