Air to Air IC solutions?

[508wrx]

I'm sure this has come up in many a discussion but I am unable to find it.

Since the 818 has no real way to get air to the intercooler what are peoples solutions? I've seen many people go air to water but I would like to not go that route. Has any efficient way to get air to and through the intercooler been made by anyone yet?

[Hindsight]

Check scargo build thread. People are trying things but no one has finished and tested one that works yet. Awic is currently the only proven system.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm sure this has come up in many a discussion but I am unable to find it.

Since the 818 has no real way to get air to the intercooler what are peoples solutions? I've seen many people go air to water but I would like to not go that route. Has any efficient way to get air to and through the intercooler been made by anyone yet?

check my thread, mounted it under the right side air inlet http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10649-RM1Sepex-Build-Thread/page23

[Scargo]

I am not trying to kick sand at anyone, but I do believe there is a better way and an AWIC may not be necessary. My logic is that Subaru did not need to and they have theirs over the engine, in the enclosed engine compartment. Now, you may need to do some fancy plumbing and ductwork to isolate the IC but I believe it can be done. I am looking at raising mine into the airstream. No passenger. Race car! I can do anything I want on that side of the car.
Without a good supply of fresh air going through the IC it is going to get heat-soaked in a hurry. It has always been problematic to stop moving in a Subie if you are working the engine. You get instant heat-soak. That's why, in my STi track car, I have a FMIC. You need to move it into clean air or give it cool air and isolate it from the engine's heat.
With an AWIC, the exchanger is still right up there over the motor, exposed to the heat from below. Not ideal IMHO.

[metalmaker12]

It's all about air flow, the 818s had the windshield that blocks the airflow

The 818R a air-air can work well if separated from heat as previously mentioned, I have a awic but if I went with the R windscreen on the S than I would have rear mounted a large air to air with a large duct in the rear hatch and a separate insulated air box to block out engine heat.

[RM1SepEx]

If I was to do it again I'd clock the turbo and use 2 inch tubing for my side vent AAIC, there isn't that much tubing, with a duct and fan there is plenty of airflow

[Mechie3]

The last time this topic came up I had found a photo of a rear intercooler in a car. It had a plenum/shroud completely over the intercooler that sealed to it. It had an interface to a large flexible hose (6" diameter?) that led to a scoop. Flow over the intercooler requires 2 things: favorable pressure differential and enough volume. The favorable differential is best achieved by venting the rear of the engine bay to lower bay pressure and sealing the front of the intercooler to increase leading pressures.

[freds]

I have my mods installed and IC inlet & Outlet temperature probes and gauge installed. See my thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16430-Max-use-of-stock-IC&highlight=freds

I am not racing so find it very difficult to stay on boost without getting arrested! So I cannot make accurate comparisons with and without my mod. This cannot be tested on a dyno as there is no air speed into the intercooler duct. An external fan would be totally unrealistic.

The attempts I have made indicate that I am getting at least a 20 degree temperature drop improvement. And I haven't started messing with where I source the air feed from...still just the vents above the rear fender.

fred

fred

fred

[Mitch Wright]

Fred,

Thanks for R&D and any additional future info you find that can be shared. I am going down the same path.

[tebriel]

What do you mean by 20 degree drop Fred? Like from before IC and after IC?

[508wrx]

Fred I have a similar set up to what you currently have. Enlarged the panels and put bulbing around the top of them to seal them off.

The inlets that factory five suggest are flat out stupid. Poor airflow and what ever air does make it in those intakes have to turn ~90 degrees into a roll bar… I very much want to stay air to air which means I'm going to have to get creative or copy someone else's ideas.

RM1SepEx, you're definitely on to something. And I would be its one of the better idea's. Since I have an S, scar go's idea might not work on my car.

Thanks for ideas everyone. Lets keep em rolling.

[billjr212]

is it weird that i'm secretly hoping someone attempts to run a ridiculously tall center console with a giant air duct style pipe right down the middle of the car back to the intercooler? Think Hummer H1. After you dismiss it is absurd, think about it for 10 seconds to try to wrap your mind around the possibility :confused:

[508wrx]

is it weird that i'm secretly hoping someone attempts to run a ridiculously tall center console with a giant air duct style pipe right down the middle of the car back to the intercooler? Think Hummer H1. After you dismiss it is absurd, think about it for 10 seconds to try to wrap your mind around the possibility :confused:


Having worked on H1's, I know what your saying. Maybe use a brake duct as an air source, run a duct thru the center console, then thru the intercooler. Heat soak while sitting still is an issue… but it is in the wrx so we are not worse off.

[AZPete]

Has anyone mounted a puller fan, or two, under/behind the IC with a shroud to pull air past the "Y" ducts? Worth thinking about?

[508wrx]

Has anyone mounted a puller fan, or two, under/behind the IC with a shroud to pull air past the "Y" ducts? Worth thinking about?

I thought I saw someone who had at one point but I can't find the build thread.

A low profile fan setup or possibly a motorcycle radiator fan set up might be ideal. After talking with some friends I think this might be something I try out. It seems to make the most sense if you plan to keep the intercooler in the same location with the least amount of modification.

[508wrx]

something like this might work
http://www.cfrperformance.com/8_HIGH_PERFORMANCE_ELECTRIC_RADIATOR_COOLING_FAN_p/hz-1001-8.htm

The core of an STi intercooler is 19x7. Two 8x8 fans could work very nice.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

something like this might work
http://www.cfrperformance.com/8_HIGH_PERFORMANCE_ELECTRIC_RADIATOR_COOLING_FAN_p/hz-1001-8.htm
The core of an STi intercooler is 19x7. Two 8x8 fans could work very nice.

I will be using some of those fans on my heat exchanger.
Interesting cfr performance says 1700 CFM 3 amps
Summit says http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16908?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKEAjw876oBRCYr86w6KGfpkgSJAACIidwnKsMlK80 9eXFnHN-SQUUphmJ5qPKoU3Xg5vcilqsvxoCR-bw_wcB
450 CFM 5.3 amps.
I believe Summit.
Bob

[Scargo]

AZPete, I think you may be thinking of Jerome (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?7233-JeromeS13)S13. I believe he plastered one against the lid (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12319-JeromeS13-s-818S&p=170488&viewfull=1#post170488)and it did not work well enough. He eventually went with AWIC and after a pump upgrade I'm not sure if he got it sorted or not...
He lists the current setup as as FrozenBoost Type 15 Air-to-Water Intercooler, FrozenBoost Type 100 Heat Exchanger, Jabsco 50840-0012 Intercooler Pump. Jerome's no slouch. He knows Subie motors.

[tebriel]

It's kind of my opinion that using an aftermarket IC somewhere that doesn't have the goofy Y pipe in the way would work best.

[Scargo]

Tebriel, consider that Subaru has success with this goofy Y setup on many a stock car. I and others have done innumerable track days with the stock TMIC where the only problem is possible heat-soak at the end of the track session. We always threw open the hood and let it run for a couple of minutes so it could cool down, as a precaution.
I'd say it is pretty-well engineered and it works because there is air forced through it and because it is well-sealed against the hood. I think the STi might be an improvement over a WRX intercooler (because I assume it's more robust) but I believe it can work on the 818 if those forced-air conditions are met. As is, it just sits in pretty-much hot, stagnant air.

[BipDBo]

I have a theory. I think that the intercooler issue might be solved by hard ducting it from a low ram scoop, like the side scoops, and ducting it into the bottom of the intercooler. Airflow would be backwards from the way it is in a WRX. Then duct the from the top of the intercooler to a low pressure area. Straight up through the deck should be fine, but out the back might be better. If the ducting goes from low to high, it goes the same direction as convection. Gravity works with it. Very important while revving at the stop light or start line of a drag stip.
Hard ducting all the way from an inlet and all the way to an outlet isolates the intercooler, protecting it from stagnant heat in the engine bay, including from the engine and exhaust. Hard ducting it should help not just revving at a standstill, but also in motion.


I really like that solution from RM1SepEx:39897
It's simple and it should work well. It puts the inter cooler right in the airstream, and it works with convection, rather than against it. The only problem is it uses less stock parts so adds cost and time to the build.

[tebriel]

Tebriel, consider that Subaru has success with this goofy Y setup on many a stock car. I and others have done innumerable track days with the stock TMIC where the only problem is possible heat-soak at the end of the track session. We always threw open the hood and let it run for a couple of minutes so it could cool down, as a precaution.
I'd say it is pretty-well engineered and it works because there is air forced through it and because it is well-sealed against the hood. I think the STi might be an improvement over a WRX intercooler (because I assume it's more robust) but I believe it can work on the 818 if those forced-air conditions are met. As is, it just sits in pretty-much hot, stagnant air.

Exactly, on a stock WRX :) Even then, I'm tempted to look up the stock efficiency numbers. I've hit 97% efficiency with a front mount before.

[508wrx]

Here is our solution. Yet to be tested since we are still waiting on the ducting. We essentially turned the intercooler into a sealed airbox.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12615-508-s-stroker-build-thread&p=199960&viewfull=1#post199960

[904svo]

Similar to what I have in my car, except I use the VSS signal to turn off the fans when idling. Trying to keep the battery drain down when idling.

[Scargo]

How do you use the VSS signal to do that? Also, your comment does not make sense. Are you really turning them on if idling? How does that save the battery when idling?

[508wrx]

How do you use the VSS signal to do that? Also, your comment does not make sense. Are you really turning them on if idling? How does that save the battery when idling?

I think he worded that wrong. His comment in my build thread says they turn off while idle and run while moving.

I would also like to know how you are doing this. I really like the idea.

[904svo]

I think he worded that wrong. His comment in my build thread says they turn off while idle and run while moving.

I would also like to know how you are doing this. I really like the idea.

Your right it was worded wrong. The reason I did it was I had to replace the battery and alternator. The alternator does not supply enought current at idle
with the cooling fans running and drains the battery low enought that the alternator burns out when trying to recharge the battery and keep the fans running.

[Scargo]

Makes no sense to me and no explanation about the VSS.

[RM1SepEx]

I have a theory. I think that the intercooler issue might be solved by hard ducting it from a low ram scoop, like the side scoops, and ducting it into the bottom of the intercooler. Airflow would be backwards from the way it is in a WRX. Then duct the from the top of the intercooler to a low pressure area. Straight up through the deck should be fine, but out the back might be better. If the ducting goes from low to high, it goes the same direction as convection. Gravity works with it. Very important while revving at the stop light or start line of a drag stip.
Hard ducting all the way from an inlet and all the way to an outlet isolates the intercooler, protecting it from stagnant heat in the engine bay, including from the engine and exhaust. Hard ducting it should help not just revving at a standstill, but also in motion.


I really like that solution from RM1SepEx:39897
It's simple and it should work well. It puts the inter cooler right in the airstream, and it works with convection, rather than against it. The only problem is it uses less stock parts so adds cost and time to the build.

The fan on mine will turn on when the key is on unless I manually switch it off with a small rocker switch on the dash. A 10 inch fan barely takes any current, I'm not pulling air thru two small diameter pipes

[freds]

What do you mean by 20 degree drop Fred? Like from before IC and after IC?




Apology for not following this.
I mean that the IC outlet air is 20 cooler than it was before I changed to my setup which isolates the air air into the IC from the engine compartment...so that all air entering the openings into that space (ie not the side scoops) has to exit through the IC. That means no air going around the IC and no hot air entering it from the engine compartment.

fred

Original thread See my thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ighlight=freds