Any word on the sti update?

[Kooldaddy]

I am still waiting to buy my 818 until they work out the 6 sp. STI engine and tranny. :cool:

[Wayne Presley]

You can use the STI engine and 6 speed trans in the 818 now.

[Tony Zullo]

You are good to go ,we have the adapter here!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!

[Louisromersh]

So if the 6MT can be used how does one go about converting to TWD? Because for what I understood the 6MT is harder to convert than the 5MT.

[Scargo]

Tony, I've asked over and over about the modification procedure in a different thread(s) on here. I have the 6-speed converter part. I got it with the kit.
The splined hub with 6 (?) holes on the flat ring portion of it.
I've never seen anything about what to do with it or how to proceed with the modification of the six-speed transaxle. Please provide me with a link to this information.

[Jim Schenck]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/STI-Six-Speed-Conversion.pdf

[Santiago]

Awesome! Now the flurry of questions can begin. I'll start it off with three of my own. =)

1. The instruction specifically call out a USDM 6-speed trans. Any confirmation or knowledge on the kit's compatibility with a JDM 6-speed trans?
2. Any plans (or know of any other member who is) working on a functional reverse lockout mechanism (small solenoid, etc.)?
3. Cost for kit?

Thanks for the update Jim!

Best,
-j

[Louisromersh]

Also another question I would ask is do you need to use the 6MT axles and knuckles or could you use the axles & knuckles from a 5MT.

[Scargo]

I can just say "thanks" and "I will dig into it tomorrow."
Has anyone at FFR considered the 4.44:1 gearing option for the six-speed R's?
My destroker is supposed to be capable of 9K and will be dry-sumped. I hope I can pull off an under-mount turbo which will sit where the gas tank normally goes. With the suspension mods I am striving for I will shave off 100+ pounds of unsprung weight.
What do you say FFR?

[Jim Schenck]

We haven't had a JDM 6 speed so I don't want to say it will work without trying it or seeing it but we are not saying it for sure won't work.
The lockout mechanism is a pretty simple lever at the transmission, one of our race cars has a remote pull to activate it but we thought that would be annoying on the street. I think it would be pretty straightforward to make an electrical one or a simple remote lever like we did.
6 speed conversion is $285 with an 818 kit purchase and $385 without.
6 speed fits the later model male inner CV joints from the WRX and still works with wrx hubs (STI joints would not fit our axle shafts)

[Louisromersh]

With this 6 Speed Conversion does the DCCS in the Transmission stay or are you removing it?

[Wayne Presley]

Open the pdf Jim posted and all will be revealed

[Louisromersh]

OK so I read it again and I guess I don't know where the DCCS is in the transmission but I were to venture a guess it is what you disconnect on page 4 and it is built into the center differential.

[wleehendrick]

If you mean DCCD, not DCDS, then that is the center diff: Driver’s Control Center Differential

[Wayne Presley]

The silver can on page 4 is the DCCD.

[Louisromersh]

Thanks wleehendrick I did mean DCCD fat finger. And thanks Wayne for the clarification.

[Santiago]

So last question (I hope). Are any frame mods required to run the 6-speed trans?

One of the early adapters (Kurk818) found that the oil pan interfered with the trans x-brace. Linky (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11695-who-will-be-the-first-to-try-putting-the-sti-6-speed-tran-in&p=146093&viewfull=1#post146093). There's no mention of it in the conversion instructions, but is this something we're all in for to use the 6-speed?

Best,
-j

[Scargo]

YES. I have a section of the X member cut out. Almost half of it. I think I will be reinforcing it a little differently that Kurk818 did.
No biggie and that's it.

[Kurk818]

YES. I have a section of the X member cut out. Almost half of it. I think I will be reinforcing it a little differently that Kurk818 did.
No biggie and that's it.

I actually called a few days back and asked about this exact issue. I was told that the rear of the transmission is raised to clear the frame. I dont think that tilting the engine forward is a good solution to this as well as putting additional strain on the engine mounts. Total amount it would raise is approx 7/8".

[Santiago]

Ok then, so we have two general options:
1. Live with a cockeyed engine/trans
2. Modify the frame

I don't like #1 either, so Glyn, Kurk was cool enough to share what he did...c'mon man...be cool...[insert peer pressure tactic here]...let us in on your method.

I ordered a bare frame specifically to get all of the welding out of the way before powder coating. So not a biggie, but I'd like to see what ya'll came up with.

Best,
-j

[Scargo]

You're up late and I'm up early. Started reading at 4:30... Woke up from dreaming of manual rack and pinions.:o
I will share more once I'm finished welding. I can share pics of what I cut out, but the mockup engine & tranny is in and I am working on the rear suspension right now; so no welding yet. This leaves me options as to how to regain some structural stiffness in the area.
3582035821
I'm having more fun with building this car! So many options and decisions to make. And like the monkey pissing in the cash register... it just runs into money. Wished I had my machine shop/prototyping capabilities again. Now I just do it with a wish and a prayer and favors from friends. Going to make bushings later this week in a friend's garage shop.

[Jim Schenck]

We used a spacer just under an inch (which changes the engine angle less than 2 degrees) on both test cars. It also keeps the pan up off the diffuser and allows some air flow under the trans. No problems modifying the frame but don't want people to think it is necessary for this install.

[Scargo]

Perhaps a clarification can be made in the conversion document (https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/STI-Six-Speed-Conversion.pdf) and clear up for me and others the parts that are required when you go full STi. Can someone explain this to me? I thought I just needed front STi axle assemblies because I thought the odd spline was in the rear diff housing. Wrong?

My dilemma is I don't have parts to try other than I am using STi rear uprights or "knuckles" and have the six-speed tranny. I also have some heavy duty STi rear axles I got in a "you want these too?" kind of purchase. It also seems very difficult to piece together a genuine Subaru axle. You seem to have to buy an axle assembly. If CV joints with the splined ends can be purchased separately what part numbers do I ask for?

[Jim Schenck]

Easiest way to explain it is you need the exact same finished assembled axles as the 2006-2007 5 speed uses. This is for an STI six speed and WRX spindles and hubs, we don't have anything that works with the STI hubs and spindles.

[icky]

So if I could get DSS to make a custom axle, that goes from their sti axle drop-in front inner to the rear outer spline, then we would be in business?

[Scargo]

If I go by sponaugle then what we need is an STi axle with the front, inner STi CV joint and the rear outer STi CV joint. Both will have male stub axles.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by sponaugle http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?p=173763#post173763)
I am using the STI axles with the STI Rear Stubs (outer), and STI Front Inner Stubs. I had my 5 speed converted to accept stubs by Andrewtech during the buildup.
Jeff
I am not clear whether Jeff used the front or rear STi axle.

If we go with Kurk818 then he says he had front axles and implies that he used them.
Kurk818's post: "I dont remember my STI front axles being that much longer than the FFR axles. It was more like 3/8" if im not mistaken. I ended up using the STI axles and installing the rear outer CVs on them. I had to widen my track width accordingly to ensure there was no binding and have some axle movement between hub and tranny. With the 295's that i will be running in the rear, body modification was already going to be needed so having an extra +/- 1/2" was not a concern."
What the FFR supplied axles lengths are seems irrelevant to this discussion. To discuss an axle meant for a WRX donor suspension confuses the issue and the purpose of the thread.

I'd like to know the length of the front axle and which works best with the rear STi suspension. Is the front the same spline as the rear?
The rear is 20.34" between centers of the grooves. There are 32 splines on each end. The ends look identical except one has a round ring and the other end has a circlip. The major OD is 26mm. That's all I can tell you. I don't have any CV joints to measure.
I see that Sponaugle has posted a picture of the axles. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14139-Sponaugle-s-H6-EZ30R-818S&p=158780&viewfull=1#post158780) It shows the front axle is around a half-inch longer. Is this a good thing and why they were chosen over the rear axle?
I think anything STi from '05-'07 will be interchangeable. I am having discussions with The Driveshaft Shop about a custom inner CV joint for rear axles as we speak. I heard from them this morning! I just don't know whether the front or rear axle is the best choice for keeping the suspension the closest to normal width or the least spread of the rear hubs.

I have been playing and need axles. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12395-818R-quot-Glynman-Style-quot&p=178923&viewfull=1#post178923)

[Sgt.Gator]

I just swapped a JDM 6 speed into my 5 speed LGT. In looking at the linked conversion instructions I see no reason why JDM 6 speeds would not work fine. The instructions also say 2004-2007, but I see no reason why 2008-current JDM and USDM 6 speeds wouldn't work as long as it's the STI or Legacy Spec B 6 speeds, not the funky new split case 75mm 6 speeds in the 10+ Legacy.

[Scargo]

My 2008 is same but without pump. I think through '11 is the same as '08.
There are some good references for this. I am in backseat on way to la guardia

[Santiago]

I'm not seeing a need for custom anything here (at least in terms of contacting suppliers of anything other than stock parts). We just need the donor axles from the STi. Kurk818 said, "I ended up using the STI axles and installing the rear outer CVs on them. I had to widen my track width accordingly to ensure there was no binding and have some axle movement between hub and tranny." That seems to strongly suggest he used the fronts, swapped in the rear inner-CVs, and adjusted for the track width. Done.

I think this is why FFR is trying to make a kit for the WRX components. This doesn't confuse anything if the goal was to offer a 6-speed option to those who have already built or are planning their build their car off of as much of the 1-donor philosophy as they can.

What is confusing is if you already have the STi uprights why worry about custom this or that? We know that Kurk's route works readily, so all you need to do is consider the impact on the rear track. You'd need a different offset wheel if you wanted to keep the it under the supplied fenders, but if you're flaring the fenders already, who cares about a bit more track width? Hell, it's a good thing (all things equal).

Best,
-j

[Wayne Presley]

I just swapped a JDM 6 speed into my 5 speed LGT. In looking at the linked conversion instructions I see no reason why JDM 6 speeds would not work fine. The instructions also say 2004-2007, but I see no reason why 2008-current JDM and USDM 6 speeds wouldn't work as long as it's the STI or Legacy Spec B 6 speeds, not the funky new split case 75mm 6 speeds in the 10+ Legacy.


I have a JDM 6 speed with the pump in it and it has a viscous center diff. The viscous center diff DOES NOT work with the FFR 2WD adapter. But you can put the Subaru flange from the 6 speed DCCD diff in the viscous equipped 6 speed. Or when buy the JDM 6 speed, pick one from the list that has the DCCD center diff.
Here is a decoder list.
http://home.gci.net/~cowdookey/818/TransmissionIDChart_Public.pdf

[Kurk818]

I'm not seeing a need for custom anything here (at least in terms of contacting suppliers of anything other than stock parts). We just need the donor axles from the STi. Kurk818 said, "I ended up using the STI axles and installing the rear outer CVs on them. I had to widen my track width accordingly to ensure there was no binding and have some axle movement between hub and tranny." That seems to strongly suggest he used the fronts, swapped in the rear inner-CVs, and adjusted for the track width. Done.


That is correct. Its pretty straight forward.

Im pretty sure for those that dont want to widen the body could get a wheel offset that accommodates it.

[Wayne Presley]

That is correct. Its pretty straight forward.

Im pretty sure for those that dont want to widen the body could get an offset that accommodates it.
Or get a wheel with more offset

[Boog]

This post helped me understand how things are pieced together.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15672-STi-Transmission&p=175059&viewfull=1#post175059

[Scargo]

Good grief! This IS a thread about using STi components, so I don't think I'm off base when I ask that we not discuss WRX parts.
Also, there are a lot of "I did this and that" and the specific axle used was not defined. I've asked for a length for the STi front axle, so I can decide whether I want to use the front or rear or something in between. The Driveshaft Shop will give me axles in 1/4" increments with their heavy duty CV joints, so I just need help from someone who has parts and can give me some reference dimensions. I think it goes without saying that you can juggle wheels, tires, spacers and the linkages (within limits).
It seems like it should be documented in this thread rather than having to search all over for clues.

Can anyone say how much wider the track will be with STi front axles mounted to rear outer STi stubs and hubs? Or, again, how long the front axles are?

[ssssly]

05-07 STI front axles are all identical.

The JDM 00-04 and USDM 04 uses lock pins instead of push in seals and are 3/8" shorter than the 05-07.

If you tell DSS that you want 6 speed axles for an 818 they will make them for you without the need for exact dimensions. Asked them about it myself a while back.

But if you have STI front axles, there is no need as you can the stock axles. Just have to swap out the front outer stubs with the rear outer stubs and you are good to go.

The splines that go into the hubs are different front to rear. So all you have to do is swap the stubs that have the hub splines for the rear hub from the rear axle to the front axle. And good to go. You will not use the FFR supplied axles.

JDM 6 speed cases are identical to USDM. However, as Wayne stated above, you want a DCCD trans not a viscous trans. The viscous trannies are kind of rare and pretty sought after though. So you probably won't end up with one by mistake. Wayne probably could have traded his for a USDM DCCD trans and made $1k in the deal.

And you may want to buy an oil pump drive gear and drive flange. Could probably get them both new for less that you can sell a working DCCD. YMMV.

But long story short. If you have front and rear STI axles that match the year of the transmission, you don't need to buy additional axles. Just swap some stubs around.

[Wayne Presley]

Wayne probably could have traded his for a USDM DCCD trans and made $1k in the deal.

Really? Where would I sell/trade it?

[Sgt.Gator]

I have a JDM 6 speed with the pump in it and it has a viscous center diff. The viscous center diff DOES NOT work with the FFR 2WD adapter. But you can put the Subaru flange from the 6 speed DCCD diff in the viscous equipped 6 speed. Or when buy the JDM 6 speed, pick one from the list that has the DCCD center diff.
Here is a decoder list.
http://home.gci.net/~cowdookey/818/TransmissionIDChart_Public.pdf

Thanks Wayne, I didn't realize/think of that.
I think the only USDM 6 speed that comes with a viscous center diff is the Legacy Spec B.

[ssssly]

RS25 or NASIOC. The GC8 crowd likes them because they are JDM only and they don't have to deal with as much wiring.