818 "R" Progress Report: Year One of Production

[FFRSpec72]

I'm very frustrated, it's 1 year after production of the R and we still don't have an assembly manual or a proper parts list (or a draft of one to help contribute to), make the manual a community project, use the social media tools out there, take a lesson from some of the community sourced information projects.

We don't have a complete list of parts that are to come with the, some people get parts others don't. There is not enough detail on the ride height or setup. Seems after a few calls to FFR I'm told that this is a bear bones race car, not to expect the quality of even a stripped down spec Miata (now that is a real blow to hear a FFR person tell me that).

Case in point: I'm trying to mock up the interior to get the cables, lines, etc. run, so I turn to the manual, I look for the console pieces, no console (fiberglass or aluminum), I call FFR, I'm told tis is a race car and there is no center console since the weight is an issue, but I can buy the sheet metal (since they don't make the fiberglass anymore). Next I go to cover up the cooling pipes and other items that come in on the foot box, I find the dead pedal but no side aluminum, so I call FFFR and I'm told once again (after the gentleman goes out in the shop and looks at the R that they have on site) this is a race car and due to the weight issue there in NO interior aluminum what so ever and I'm just to throw away the dead pedal aluminum or I can fabricate these parts I'm told (well if I had all the tools I would).

I'm not new to racing or building race cars, I have several including a FFR Challenge car, so I hate to be told that this is a race car and weight is an issue as an excuse to getting to the bottom of the issues of what parts we are supposed to get and what we will not get as part of the R.

FFR has done a great job designing the 818 R and the quality of the parts and material has been excellent so far but please go the last mile here and help us R builders get the proper parts and instructions to build a race car that we can be proud of, and please don't use the "race car" excuse.

[Rasmus]

Q: Speedholes? A: Because Race Car.
Q: Front wing? A: Because Race Car.
Q: Interior panels that don't fit? A: Because Race Car.
Q: Clutch foot 30 mm from exposed coolant pipe. A: Because Race Car.
Q: But I paid an extra grand? A: Because Race Car.
Q: Assembly manual missing steps? A: Because Race Car.

[D Clary]

You would think that after building 2 house cars that there would be at least a rough drawing or photos of wing mounts, interior, or anything else they have figured out. It would make it simpler for those of us without an engineering degree or a 3d printer.

[Doowop]

Yeah, agreed. Also from Dave's email we were supposed to get a full spec an report on the R they race so "anybody can built the same car if they want", I have not seen any details or specs on anything.....

[Santiago]

I'm not sure what "email" is referred to here, but in a post in the Progress Report thread, Dave said he'd ask Jim to post specs... Post #25 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15527-818-Progress-Report-Year-One-of-Production&p=168015&viewfull=1#post168015)is what we got from Jim.

Dave did say, "I'll have him post the specs on both cars as they are relatively easy to replicate suspension, drivetrain, etc.. none too expensive and all commonsense." That seems to sum up the attitude that is driving the response R-builders are getting. None too expensive and all commonsense. Apparently, time spent fabricating your own parts is not expensive, and we're supposed to have enough commonsense to figure it all out (without aforementioned engineering degrees and 3D printers).

I'm about to start my build and I'm excited about fabricating my own parts...but I'm that bushy-tailed bright-eyed kid who is excited because I haven't actually slogged through what ya'll have been dealing with for many months. I've learned a TON from the R-builders who've started already, so hopefully my experience won't be quite so "left-out-in-the-cold" as the pioneers. Still...I'm actually planning on a 2-year build schedule...maybe that has my mind in a calm place...

Feeling ya,
-j

[Jim Schenck]

Here is the set-up I posted earlier:

Front:
Ride Height 3.25 inches
Toe: 1/16 inch total toe in
Camber: -2.5 degrees (had to trim the upper arm just a bit to get this much)
Caster: +3.5 degrees (manual steering, although we are going to test power with 5-6 degrees next time)
Production "R" springs and shocks
No sway bar but also may test the bar again to see if we like it at the higher speed tracks

Rear:
Ride Height: 3.5 inches
Toe: 1/4 inch total toe in
Camber: -3.0 degrees
Roll steer set at zero (both lower links parallel)

Suspension and Brake Components:
2006 aluminum front lowers with Beatrush heim joint Anti-lift kit
Whiteline poly bushings on front lower arm and rear trailing arm at spindle
Adjustable rod end lower transverse links (all 4 rears)
Rod end adjustable lower trailing arms
Wilwood 13 inch front brakes
Wilwood 12 inch rear brakes
Rota Torque 17 front and 18 rear wheels
Yokohama Advan Slicks 210 front and 240 rear

[FFRSpec72]

Here is the set-up I posted earlier:



Jim, what I'm missing is how I actually get to the stage of being able to setup the car given those facts. I think you have done a remarkable job on the challenge car (super fun car to race) an now the 818 but we (maybe just me?) need help per my post. I can figure some things out but get frustrated when I don't have the info to figure things out (like what parts I'm supposed to get with the R), I'm told up front that I have to figure out something for the dead pedal then I can plan for that and deal with it, but it sees like when ever I go to do something it takes a long time to find/get the answers. Once again thanks for all the support you give us racers.

[Jim Schenck]

The 818R manual has been a work in progress because the majority of it is set-up info. It really will be an appendix to the S manual since 95% of the assembly can be the same, but it will also cover setting the car up for low ride height and all of the info we have learned on the track so far.

The build up and set-up of the red car is what has been holding up the manual but at the same time providing the material for it so the completion of that car will meaa the final version is around the corner. (Car has to be finished for SEMA in Nov)
What I can do to speed the process along is set up a link to what I have so far, which is the unedited and un-spellchecked version, to help anyone who is stuck with what is in there.

Just shoot me an email if you want the link: jim(at)factoryfive.com

Same email works fine for assembly questions as well.

[Doowop]

Jim, I saw those specs before, but that doesn't tell us what was changed if anything, if that worked, what issues you ran into as far as brake fade, cooling, oil pressure, etc... What worked, did not worked, needs to be changed, etc.... what you would do differently if it was to do it again... I'm sure the red car is not build the same as the blue one as you probably changed things... maybe lcoation of certain equipments, like dashboard, or brake adjustment valve.... It would be awesome to get that kind of info so we learn from somebody who ran the car on the track, and it would help to make adjustment on potential bugs you ran into already so we don't have to redo that again.
If you go race in a E46 M3 by example, and need to build a race car, there are tons of info on a bunch of forums about what was done, what works, etc... of course it is also a matter of personal preferences, but on the 818, there is basically nothing out there yet except for you guys. Thanks