Electric Gear change for the Subaru 5 speed.

[Desertrunner]

I am using a Subaru 5 speed in one of my builds, its not a Factory Five car and wanted to come up with a different gear change idea. The concept I want to develop if I can is to do a electric gear change. The current thinking is that you would have a paddle on the steering column and you would flick it up or down depending on what gear you want then either at the same time or a short time after you push the clutch in and the electric's execute the gear change. Just wanted something a bit different also I think that with some fine tuning the speed of the gear change could be speed up. I plan to use 2 12dv low rev motors controlled by a cheap PLC.
The reason I post is to see what people think of the idea, I have no interest in sell units its just for my own use. Currently just finished the design and now starting to build a unit.
Tony

[HCP 65 COUPE]

There is a a cable drive setup on the market for the tremec 5 speed.
And other transmissions to but not the Subaru WRX tranny.
It's made by master shift Check out there web page http://mastershift.com/.
I never used the system So I have no clue how good it is bit it might get your project going
Faster and give you some ideas and maybe even some parts to work with they seem to sell everything in pcs

[Boog]

The 'MS-CLCHLOCK' looks pretty slick.

[305mouse]

I love how the mastershift website wants you to visit them at SEMA.....2012

[Larry J W]

I have given the same system some thought. Originally air cyclinders were considered. 20 to 50 ms actuation time is reasonable. This would give a .15 second shift time with 3 moves (gear, neutral, gear). Problems might be pressure on the shifter forks.

Then I have some heavy duty stepper morotrs that could work. Drivers could be a problem.

Under current cosideration is using high speed dc motors with a shaft encoder and ball ball screws. With out a shaft encoder a lot of limit scwitches will be required in that the position of full gear engagement is not consistant especially with reverse.

Some of the new micro computers may be a better controller than a PLC but I worry about their reliability.

Right now it is not a high priority project. Driving the 818 with the cable shift is OK but not great. Please keep us informed.

Larry

[Desertrunner]

Hi Guys thanks for the link its appreciated,
If I use a PLC to run the unit it can be used for other function on the build. In addition I can use a CMore screen to display other function. Had considered if i could use a PIC but like you say Larry I need to be a little careful about reliability. The biggest problem was getting my head around the best way to approach the problem.
Will post some photos of were I am up to.
Tony

[Desertrunner]

I am installing the gear change in the side of the gear box33768337693377033771

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am installing the gear change in the side of the gear box33768337693377033771
Hey Tony
This is cool.
Please explain how it works.
I see the servomotor. How does your gearing change rotary motion into a H pattern?
That is the secret sauce.
Bob

[Boog]

Maybe that is a linear actuator kinda deal to move the shifter right/left (1-3-5) and an additional device will move the shifter forward/back (1-2, 3-4, 5-R).

[Desertrunner]

I brought a cheap angle grinder today and its given up its life so I could get the gears out of it,
the main motor you see does the actual gear selectation up and down and a second smaller motor will do the in and out for the range choice, 1, 3, & 5
Now to design it all into a new box.
Tony

[Ironhydroxide]

Years ago when 5spd was really all you had for rally, KAPS made a sequential shift kit for the 5spd. it was a fairly bulky setup, but it actuated the shifter linkage itself from the rear of the trans. So it's definitely possible. and if you do it right, you could even add a clutch actuator, you would have to have it adjustable speed so you could tune it for your Coefficient of friction and power output. but.... would be cool.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Years ago I made a pneumatic shifting system for a Hewland 5 speed transaxle. I used 3 three position pneumatic cylinders one on each shift rail and a bank of solenoids and a controller I made myself. I later thought that using 2 three position cylinder would be a better idea. One cylinder would be used for fore and aft movement and one for rotating a finger between the 3 shift rails but I never tried that idea out. The biggest problem I ran into was electrical noise because I made the mistake of using 5 volt components. The fastest shift time I recorded was 17 MS but the normal shift time for a straight shift 1-2 or 3-4 was about 25 MS and the shift 2-3 or 4-5 was about 65 MS. There are several ways to make paddle shifters and when they work they are a blast to use so if you have an idea go for it.

Bill Lomenick

[Desertrunner]

Hi Guys,
I have it working now and the speed of the change is adjustable, here is a short video of the gearbox stepping through the gears from 1 to 5 then reverse then back to neutral.

This occurs as you click the paddle shift.

Still developing the computer code but its getting there.
Would appreciate any suggestions.
Tony

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/91210059/Gear%20change/My%20Movie_zpsfcd6tzjv.MP4

[Larry J W]

Looking good. Are still using the gears out of the grinder? Using a reversible DC motor as an actuator? Lots of questions when you are ready to pass on some details.

Larry

[Desertrunner]

Hi Larry,
No had to dump that approach and go a different way.
It looks like the design will be released comerically in the future and one of the possible options is helical cut gears that will enable the gear change with out using the clutch

[C.Plavan]

Hi Larry,
No had to dump that approach and go a different way.
It looks like the design will be released comerically in the future and one of the possible options is helical cut gears that will enable the gear change with out using the clutch

I might be interested since I will probably be going dog gears in the future. Any ball park cost of just the shifting mechanism without gears?

[Pearldrummer7]

I might be interested since I will probably be going dog gears in the future. Any ball park cost of just the shifting mechanism without gears?

Dog gears are awesome (and $$$). Why can't you use a normal cable shifting mechanism with a dog box, Chad? (help explain to a n008)

[C.Plavan]

Dog gears are awesome (and $$$). Why can't you use a normal cable shifting mechanism with a dog box, Chad? (help explain to a n008)

No reason I can't. I was just seeing if it was feasible price wise. Other than that just semi sequential coolness.

[Desertrunner]

Hi Chad,
No idea yet,
but I will say that the advantage of the electric is that its planned to be integrated into the Canbus system so the revs of the engine will be adjust during gear changes, get revs and gear to match so the changes will be a lot smoother. Pretty sure some of the smart things being worked on with the change will not be possible with cable shift.
Tony

[Scargo]

A dog box will penalize you in NASA. Plus the cost.

[Desertrunner]

The guys that are developing the gear change further are integrating it into the Can bus and they expect that on any cars with throttle by wire they will be able to control the engine revs to enable gear change with out using the clutch. They are working on doing it with a standard Subaru 5 speed box that has sycro

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The guys that are developing the gear change further are integrating it into the Can bus and they expect that on any cars with throttle by wire they will be able to control the engine revs to enable gear change with out using the clutch. They are working on doing it with a standard Subaru 5 speed box that has sycro

My 04 forester FXT engine is DBW and does not have CAN bus.
I believe the 06 and 07 DBW WRX also do not have CAN bus.
Bob

[Flamshackle]

The guys that are developing the gear change further are integrating it into the Can bus and they expect that on any cars with throttle by wire they will be able to control the engine revs to enable gear change with out using the clutch. They are working on doing it with a standard Subaru 5 speed box that has sycro


Wow, that's an exciting development!