Race Seat for R

[Doowop]

Hey guys,

I know that there is a small seat thread in the interior section, but I wanted to create a R specific thread that is just related to race seats.
For people that have their seat installed, can you share, what issues could be on specific areas of the seat dimensions. What you did, what you wouldn't do again, how much room is left there, etc...
I'm trying to decide on seats (I know it's early, I don't even have the car yet :) , 3 more weeks to wait! ) but I like to look into things in advance.
Also if somebody can remind us on what the regulations are in NASA and SCCA regarding the seats (I know, I could just look it up, but if somebody knows already that'd be quicker).


I'm most likely getting a full containment seat, especially because the roll bar is right there, FIA. Being a fat ***, I need to check what my *** fits in. I never measured my seats in my old race car. I just don't know how much room is there in the 818 for the seats.
I've been looking at a couple places in Europe that sells race seats. I's pretty incredible that brand like Sparco are about half price there... so even with $200 shipping, it's still a lot cheaper....

[FFRSpec72]

Hey guys,

I know that there is a small seat thread in the interior section, but I wanted to create a R specific thread that is just related to race seats.

I use UltraShield seats, have them in my Challenge car, I got the Rally Sport Seat, 16" with 10 degree layback so as not to take up room (as it saves about 4" over a 20 degree layback). http://www.ultrashieldrace.com/catalog/Road-Race-Seats/Standard-Road-Race-Seats/Rally-Sport-Seat/160

[Sgt.Gator]

Doowop on the regs: If you use a Kirkey or Ulltrashield you are required to add a back brace that connects to to the cage. I'm sure Tony can chime in here on how he did his.

If you use a Sparco or other typical seat and you DON'T want to use a back brace you must get an FIA rated seat. If it's not FIA rated you will need a back brace. Back braces are very controversial with fiberglass/CF race seats. The manufacturers say the seats are designed structurally to bend and absorb energy, and putting a back brace on can cause the seat to fail. But some clubs require the brace anyway. An example of technology getting ahead of rules I think.

"NASA reg: 15.6.21 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects should be placed in such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in a high impact crash. Seat back support need not be attached to the seat itself. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is recommended that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this, as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats homologated to, and mounted in accordance with, FIA 8855-1999 or 8862-2009 standards. Those seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-1999 or 8862-2009 set of regulations, as applicable. This includes a mandatory seat replacement, or use of a seat back brace, for any seat more than five (5) years old (8855-1999) or more than ten (10) years old (8862-2009).
Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/."

Other things to think about: It's an open car so arm restraints will be required.

If you have a full containment seat this doesn't apply, but for others who don't: "NASA requires a right side net. All vehicles, except formula cars, must be outfitted with a right-side impact head restraint system. A seat with a “bolster” to keep the head from moving to the right side in an impact is acceptable. A side-impact head-net restraint system, such as shown in picture 15.17.9-2 below, is also acceptable.
Note-*‐ all side-impact head-net restraint systems must have a quick-release mechanism to aid the driver in case of egress if necessary via the passenger side.
Note- it is recommended that a side net wrap around the seat and function to help stop the shoulders, head bolster (if applicable), and seat from moving sideways in an impact. It is best to follow the manufacturer’s
recommendations for installation of any safety device. However, in lieu of such recommendations, or in addition to, it is recommend that the lower strap of the side net run parallel with the fore/aft center line of the car and be low enough to support the shoulder area as well. Furthermore, it is suggested that the top strap follow a path through the center of the helmet, when viewed from the side. Reference Diagram 15.17.9-1

[Doowop]

Thanks Gator.
It's weird that the back brace does not have to be attached to the seat. I have always seen them attached which in a fiberglass seat seems super weird. In that case, It's not bad.
I really wanted to see fitting issues/option for people that already have FIA mounted in the cars with info on space between seat and cage, etc... I'd like to order seats but don't want to get them from Europe and find out they don't fit....

[C.Plavan]

I have a Racetech in mine, fits great. It's FIA. Seat back brace will be easy. That will be the last thing I do. I have an IO Port adjustable one on my 911.

[Doowop]

Hey Chad, which Racetech model do you have? I was looking at seat brace, and those are design for the aluminum seats so you can bolt them on there. I guess since it doesn't have to be bolted to the seat that will be better, but I really do not like the size of that little plate that goes in the back of the seat especially since it is located right in your neck. I think my solution will just be to make a much bigger plate against the back of the seat.

[FFRSpec72]

"NASA requires a right side net. All vehicles, except formula cars, must be outfitted with a right-side impact head restraint system. A seat with a “bolster” to keep the head from moving to the right side in an impact is acceptable. A side-impact head-net restraint system, such as shown in picture 15.17.9-2 below, is also acceptable.


I don't use a net with my challenge car but use these http://www.ultrashieldrace.com/catalog/Seat-Accessories/Head-Supports/ and will use these with my 818. The seat brace also just has to be anchored to the roll cage, on the 818 it will go to the back hoop just below the harness bar.

[C.Plavan]

I have the Racetech RT4009HR model. Non-Fatty size :)

[Doowop]

that's my problem, I need to see if a fat *** seat fits well..... :) gonna go to a local race store to try out seats tomorrow...

[Zach34]

One of the first things I'm doing while the frame is still uncoated is fitting the seats and making any needed frame modifcations for comfort/position. Step 1 is finding a seat. I sat in the Kirkey installed in the blue car at FFR when I picked up the kit. I liked it, but that's pretty much the only containment-type seat I've ever sat in. There are not a lot of places anywhere nearby that stocks seats I could try.

Any recommendations?

Anybody have any pictures of the back brace required for a non-FIA seat? If I understand correctly, it would be required with the Kirkey installed in the blue car.

[C.Plavan]

Depending on the tech inspectors, we may not need a seat back brace. Some racing Orgs don't require one if the seat is 2" or less from firewall. NASA may look the other way of your seat is against the firewall. I will have a good argument with them about it if they require it.

[Zach34]

I need every millimeter of legroom I can get, so I'll be installing my seat directly against the firewall if at all possible. Does attaching the seat-back to the frame count as a back brace?

[Scargo]

Could you guys be more specific in what seat model and what size you are using? Give your waist, height, weight, physique or something so that it is meaningful to us as to why the seat works for you.
Example: I have a Sparco Pro 2000 seat in my STi. I will upgrade to a Kirkley or similar for the 818. I am six foot tall, with a 32 inch waist and an average to leanish build. I weight 163. The Sparcos are a good fit, if not just a hair loose. They say it is for a medium size. Sparco's site has lots of seat dimensions...
A friend who's a big guy, 6-2 and big hips, was barely able to squeeze into it and take my car out for a session, but he was not very comfortable and said he could not have stayed in the seat much longer. An instructor who was similar to me but has thirty pounds on me, and is in better shape/more muscular, had no issues with my seat.

[longislandwrx]

I need every millimeter of legroom I can get, so I'll be installing my seat directly against the firewall if at all possible. Does attaching the seat-back to the frame count as a back brace?

yes, if it the seatback is bolted to structure with no gap you are fine.

[Zach34]

yes, if it the seatback is bolted to structure with no gap you are fine.

That is superb news, thank you much! Now to find a race shop within reasonable driving distance that might have some seats to try.... anybody know of one in the Virginia/Maryland/North Carolina area? Got to be one in NASCAR country (NC).

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I need every millimeter of legroom I can get, so I'll be installing my seat directly against the firewall if at all possible. Does attaching the seat-back to the frame count as a back brace?


Could you guys be more specific in what seat model and what size you are using? Give your waist, height, weight, physique or something so that it is meaningful to us as to why the seat works for you.
Example: I have a Sparco Pro 2000 seat in my STi. I will upgrade to a Kirkley or similar for the 818. I am six foot tall, with a 32 inch waist and an average to leanish build. I weight 163. The Sparcos are a good fit, if not just a hair loose. They say it is for a medium size. Sparco's site has lots of seat dimensions...
A friend who's a big guy, 6-2 and big hips, was barely able to squeeze into it and take my car out for a session, but he was not very comfortable and said he could not have stayed in the seat much longer. An instructor who was similar to me but has thirty pounds on me, and is in better shape/more muscular, had no issues with my seat.

Zach and Scargo
Have you seen this post I made.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16157-What-seats-do-you-have-for-the-818S&p=176816&viewfull=1#post176816
I can take some more pictures if you want.
Bob

[K3LAG]

Now to find a race shop within reasonable driving distance that might have some seats to try.... anybody know of one in the Virginia/Maryland/North Carolina area?

OG Racing near DC. It is out by Dulles Airport. I bought my Sparco's there. They have about 12-15 different seats you can sit in. I'm sure there must be something closer to you though if your in Norfolk. Perhaps in the Richmond area. Look on the web sites of some of the manufacturers and see where their dealers are.

Larry

[FFRSpec72]

I need every millimeter of legroom I can get, so I'll be installing my seat directly against the firewall if at all possible. Does attaching the seat-back to the frame count as a back brace?

Depends, you should read the CCR for the league you will be racing in and the particular classes (some classes have specific rules that trump CCR) that you will run in and make sure you talk to the leagues tech inspection folks, I run in NASA, SCCA and ICSCC and what these folks are looking for is to make sure the seat can't go back in case of an accident, so it may depend on how strong your rear firewall is, my gut says that with the fuel tank there and the flimsy firewall it will not pass, but I'm not sure I would want to take a chance on a setup like that anyway. I have been in some severe accidents on the track before and I take no risks with the safety of the cars I drive

[C.Plavan]

I want to add that the Aluminum firewall is in no way flimsy. In fact, it is thicker/stronger than any firewall I have seen in any other car.

Yes, it does depend on the tech person inspecting your car.

[FFRSpec72]

I want to add that the Aluminum firewall is in no way flimsy. In fact, it is thicker/stronger than any firewall I have seen in any other car.

Yes, it does depend on the tech person inspecting your car.

It may be thick (1/8th) but it can be very flimsy since it's 2 pieces and it all depends on how it is mounted and the 2 pieces are attached. I will definitely not be using the one supplied by FFR.

[Zach34]

Yeah Bob I checked out your post. Those seats look great, but I'm leaning more towards a seat with some sort of halo structure and more containment.

What I'm visualizing is attaching the rear of the seat to the frame that the firewall panels attach to. Modification of the firewall and fuel tank may be in order (thinking fuel cell anyway). I don't think just attaching the seat to the firewall aluminum, even as thick as it is, would provide much of a safety benefit. I would like to make my firewall somewhat removable for engine work.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yeah Bob I checked out your post. Those seats look great, but I'm leaning more towards a seat with some sort of halo structure and more containment.

What I'm visualizing is attaching the rear of the seat to the frame that the firewall panels attach to. Modification of the firewall and fuel tank may be in order (thinking fuel cell anyway). I don't think just attaching the seat to the firewall aluminum, even as thick as it is, would provide much of a safety benefit. I would like to make my firewall somewhat removable for engine work.

I have 5/16" bolts through the bottom of the seat into the x bars.
I also have 5/16" bolts through the back of the seat into the 1 1/2" square tube at the top of the fire wall.
My firewall is flat against the frame. I have to remove the seat and then the firewall to access the engine.

If I was doing and R, I would split the side sale into 2 pieces so you could take off the whole back of the car for easy engine access.
Bob

[Doowop]

the rear seat brace is really easy to install and would be a lot easier than screwing with the firewall, IMO. there are a couple but here is one:
http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IPRS&Product_Code=ASB&Category_Code=


i really don't like that it has a small plate right behind your neck, so I'll make a much bigger one and weld it on there.

[Scargo]

Racer Parts Wholesale is having a seat sale.

15% OFF In-Stock RACING SEATS (http://b.cv3.co/lc.php?c=AauEeAiAAae-iEOa)
(Over $400.00)!
1-800-397-7815 (tel:1-800-397-7815)

This deal is available only today and when you call to place your order today before 5pm EST.
They have OMP and Sabelt. I have no affiliation... I have bought from them before.

[Sgt.Gator]

No Window Net and No Arm Restraint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWjXzvVoL0

"Not the ending I wanted to my first race in my MX5. I was very lucky just to end up with a broken right arm, considering how bad the crash was it could have been alot worse."


This video probably deserves it's own thread just to remind us....but since we were already discussing these rule I posted it here.

[DodgyTim]

Ouch! I couldn't watch the video without cringing
I've broken my wrist 3 times (motorcycles) but was saved by an arm restraint in an offroad racing rollover

[Sgt.Gator]

Yep, I cringe too! I try to envision what this would look like if they were 818Rs.......It helped me decide I want a full halo roll cage over my head, not just a single roll bar.

[Scargo]

NASA and SCCA both require arm restraints. I'll be doing that. Makes me think I need a window net in my STi. That looked nasty.

[lclevert]

Bringing this seat thread back to life...

Has anyone tried fitting one of the kirkey containment seats in an R? I don't have my car yet, but that side down tube looks mighty close and might interfere with the upper part of the containment.

I see people using the intermediates and even they look pretty close.

Any install pictures?

[Mitch Wright]

I think you have the room to get a Kirkey containment seat in your R
5202852029

[Santiago]

Isn't FFR's grey mule running a Kirkey containment?

[Mitch Wright]

Santiago, I think your right I believe FFR running on in the gray car.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a picture of the seat.
52043

I am running 2 of the biggest intermediate Road Race seats. Kirkey# 47900

52044

The shoulder supports touch each other in the middle of the car.
Bob

[lclevert]

I'll give it a shot.

Skip

[lclevert]

Looks like it fits. I just have it sitting on the bare frame now. Once I put the seat in mounts, that will raise it a little and put the shoulder wing b/w the down tubes where it won't rub. It looks like it will be a pretty tight fit once everything else is installed.

52182

[Mitch Wright]

Looks like you are golden. I really like that seat, had one in a car I drove a while back. My Kirkey seat bottom is 1/4" off the X tubes on the floor and have plenty of broom stick test head clearance. then again I am only 5'8".

[lclevert]

Yes, I plan on mounting it as low and as far back as I can to get the head clearance under the broomstick.