Data logger

[Doowop]

Hey guys, I'm more of an old school kind of racer where basically, I know (or think I know) when a do a better lap on a track, but I'd like to have some kind of "helper" to give me some of that info. I have seen a few of you talking about those, but I thought we could have a post to really see what is available, and what would work best. I know there are tons of options on them that can let you know all kind of stuff on the car, but I'm thinking that sensors can always be added later if the system allows it. I don't know much about them, and it seems it can go pretty high in price too.

So here is what I personally would like:
- Get info, like speed, temp, etc..... I mean, I still want gauges, but I'd like to have records to be able to analyze data after a track day or race to improve. I think some of those full dash system have too much info on them and are hard to read especially while driving.
- I guess some GPS capability to get the track layout
- Also, I'm probably getting my kid into go kart next year, and would like a unit that can be shared between the 818 and the go kart easily. For that I would like to know if there are system out there where I could see the data remotely while the Kart is on the track.

what is FFR using on the blue car that we can see on the video? which I guess would bring the question, how is that done? having the data on the screen?

thanks

[FFRSpec72]

I'm partial to the Auto Sports Lab guys that make the Race Capture Pro here in Seattle, their system is based upon open source and has an open bus and sensor integration, they have just announced a CAN/ODBII based unit so this will plug in to the ODBII port and also connect to the various sensors. See http://www.autosportlabs.net/Main_Page and for the newly announced unit see http://www.autosportlabs.com/racecapturepro-2/

[CHOTIS BILL]

I use to race with a couple that owned Veracity Data. They sell different brands that are new and have some used that were trade ins on newer ones. They are very nice people and won’t steer you wrong just to make a sale.

I have no connection with them other than a satisfied customer.

http://veracitydata.com/

If you do call them say hi for me.

Thanks,

Bill Lomenick

[Doowop]

Thanks guy. I'm thinking there are tons of stuff out there that go from affordable to $8-10K

Tony, the AUto Sports Lab stuff looks pretty awesome. It's big, but it seems to be able to do a lot of stuff. Have you been using that?

[C.Plavan]

I have both the Traqmate and racecapture pro. The only drawback is that you cant see the display in a 818 because of the sunlight with the race capture pro. I stuck my Traqmate back in since you can see the display in full sunlight.

[Doowop]

Hey Chad, I really like the traqmate display for sure, but do you like the racecapture pro better? It seems to have more features. The issue with the 818 is a display issue then, that you can't see it in sunlight? being that it uses a android base display, isn't anybody making a display that can be viewed better? what about the Kindle paperwhite? they say it could be used in direct sunlight. I guess you loose the colors as it it a black and white display, but that could be ok. What about having a tablet sitting in the sun all day though? it might not like it....

[Evan78]

A hood over the display should help with the sun issue. Should be easy to cut and bend some cardboard over the top and sides.

On the cheap end, there are apps for Android (and iPhone I assume) that are very inexpensive ($1-$20) and do quite a bit for the money. Phones typically only update gps position at about 1 Hz (once per second), but some of the apps support the use of an external bluetooth gps receiver for faster sampling (5-20 Hz) for under $100.

Here's a couple examples:
http://trackmaster.trackaroo.com
http://www.racechrono.com/

[FFRSpec72]

I had the Traqmate and sold it to buy the Race Capture Pro (RCP) , I like the RCP as I can write my own programs and alerts, it basically unlimited in what I can do with it, and with version 2 I will plug it into my ODBI11 port via a CAN adaptor. Mind you RCP is a roll your own so all sensors you have to hook up, I had the wire harness for the 818 built with extra circuits just for this. I you don't like to play hen Traqmate or others are a better choice.

[Doowop]

Tony, what are you thinking about using for display? Yeah, I'm looking into this early to get my wiring harness setup for everything I'm gonna need

[Sgt.Gator]

I have the range:
Trackmaster on my android phone. Cheap. Works surprisingly well. Would be super easy to swap between your car and Kart. User interface is nice and data simple to comprehend.

Traqmate classic Complete. Affordable. Works very well. Would also be relatively easy to swap between car and kart. Software is pretty nice, and data is a not too hard to understand. To be clear, this is not the Traqdash, it's the Classic. Can integrate video but I never did it.

AIM MXL Pista: Expensive. Has a ton of capabilities. Integrates great with the AIM SmartyCam HD for video and GPS. Not a good candidate for swapping between kart and car. Software is more difficult. After a season of using it I still feel like a complete NOOB. This is a Pro level system and I'm not using it anywhere near it's potential.

For my 818R I will probably get the new AIM MXL2 or MXG. They look awesome...

[CHOTIS BILL]

One thing that is a plus is if you can get the same system others you run with use so you can swap data. I found this to be a major learning tool.

Bill Lomenick

[FFRSpec72]

Tony, what are you thinking about using for display? Yeah, I'm looking into this early to get my wiring harness setup for everything I'm gonna need

With the RCP I don't use a display, I use it as data capture and alerts on my existing Speedhut gauges and look at the data after the race. I just find it too busy to look at a high tech dash in the challenge car since it's not the smoothest car to drive. I use an experimental device from MyLaps folks for my lap times that I have to give back in a few weeks. I have not figured out if I will use a display or not in the 818 or just collect the data.

[Sgt.Gator]

There's also a local guy here in Bend Oregon that's building a new datalogger/dash display. It's brand new so there will probably be teething problems, but if you're up to being a pioneer (of course you are, you're building an 818!) then you might consider it, the price is right. it's cheaper because the display runs on an Android device, like a Nexus 7. And if you position the "dash/nexus 7" right you can use the cameras built into the nexus as your track cams, front and back.
http://www.arcflashed.com/collections/arcflash/products/digital-dash

[FFRSpec72]

it's cheaper because the display runs on an Android device, like a Nexus 7. http://www.arcflashed.com/collections/arcflash/products/digital-dash

I can use Windows based devices! It has a slow bus and sampling rate (but maybe it will ok with my slow driving) but it could be a great starter system.

[CHOTIS BILL]

Collecting data and displaying it is the easy part the hard part is the software and how you process the data. I have had 2 different systems on each end of the spectrum and for me getting better processing power is worth the extra money. The last system I had was a MoTeC system which I got at a good deal but was still pricey but could give you calculated data that could boggled your mind. I could go to a race and do a couple of hot laps, come in and check the shock data, make a quick adjustments and the shocks were set for the weekend. With their math channels and caned formulas my imagination was the only limit to what could be produced. A good friend and racing buddy had an AIM system which was not as expensive but at that time didn’t have the power of the MoTeC but still could do maybe 80-90% of what the MoTeC could do and for him was the correct choice. You should check around and get a system that is the best value for what you want it to do. One word of cushion, the more you use it the more things you think of to check so you might want to get a system with a few extra inputs.

Bill Lomenick

[Drew P]

Racepak has a pretty affordable set up.

[Jaime]

Anyone ever used anything from Competition Data Systems (http://www.competitiondata.com/)? They are around the corner from where I work, and I know one of their techs from my motorcycle days. However, I've never known anyone who has used any of their products.

[Doowop]

I think the swapping between kart and car is just not a good idea. I'll just have to have 2 systems.
The Race capture Pro seems to really have a lot of features and capability especially for the money. The only issue is the display, since they don't have one, and and trying to find something that is actually rugged enough for a race car/ in the sun/ vibrations, etc.. setup seems hard. BUT, i actually contacted them, and they are working on a display for next year. It's not officially "out" yet, but they says they might have something by early to mid next year!!

[FFRSpec72]

I think the swapping between kart and car is just not a good idea. I'll just have to have 2 systems.
The Race capture Pro seems to really have a lot of features and capability especially for the money. The only issue is the display, since they don't have one, and and trying to find something that is actually rugged enough for a race car/ in the sun/ vibrations, etc.. setup seems hard. BUT, i actually contacted them, and they are working on a display for next year. It's not officially "out" yet, but they says they might have something by early to mid next year!!

I stopped by their office a few weeks back and they had a prototype, looked like it may work, it was rather large so hope they shrink that, the Race Capture Pro 2 looks real nice. They need to complete the ODB-II to CAN adapter done and tested.

[Doowop]

Cool Tony..... did you get more info about it? next time do a stealth picture! :)

[Sgt.Gator]

For me any datalogger needs to seamlessly integrate with your cameras. Some systems are plug and play with cams, others are not, and in fact quite complicated to get them to sync.

[matteo92065]

What about the Cobb Access Port V3?
I know that it does not have GPS, but seems to do everything else and more. Its about $600. You can adjust ECU, take the place of up to six gauges, and data log. The Cobb and a GoPro would give the casual racer/tuner/builder a lot for the money. But I have no experience with it and would like to hear the downsides.

And what about Torque Pro OBD2 app/reader for any Android device? You can take video with gauge overlays. I have this in my jeep and GLI, and yes the sampling rate is a little slow, but it is worth a mention.

[Evan78]

I have a Cobb V2 and it does a fine job of data logging, but the problem with any OBD2 logger is the sampling rate.

I also use Torque and Dash Command with an ELM327 bluetooth OBD2 adapter.

TrackMaster is great for logging position, especially with a bluetooth GPS that does 5 or 10hz sampling.

[C.Plavan]

I'll sell my Race Capture Pro with real time telemetry (Cellular- never used) and bluetooth module. $300. Send PM.

[johngeorge]

Red (now grey) 818r has a Racepak iq3 logger dash. We are testing racepak's electromotive efi interface to capture ecu data as it's still in pre-production state. As for stock Subaru interface unfortunately Racepak does not have a cable to tap into stock subi ecu.

[Brando]

I'll sell my Race Capture Pro with real time telemetry (Cellular- never used) and bluetooth module. $300. Send PM.

PM sent

[Wayne Presley]

Red (now grey) 818r has a Racepak iq3 logger dash. We are testing racepak's electromotive efi interface to capture ecu data as it's still in pre-production state. As for stock Subaru interface unfortunately Racepak does not have a cable to tap into stock subi ecu.


The Electromotive talks with the racepack, AIM and RaceTechnologies Dash2 via CAN.

[sponaugle]

I have an AIM, RaceCapture Pro, and Racepak.

The RaceCapture Pro is the underdog, but I like it the most. It is open source so you can build your own firmware. The design and schematics are published, as are the APIs.. it is very extensible... and the costs is 1/2 to 1/8th the other systems.

It does not have a native video sync system, although it does have realtime data output so it is possible to use something external. For me personally the expandability is what I like best. I am just about to have my PCB made with my CAN bus and OBDII/SSM interface. The idea is to stream into the new Racecapture Pro Mk2. This will give me additional analog sensor inputs, CAN inputs and outputs, and SSM2 interfacing to the stock factory ECU. Assuming everything works out I suspect the cost for this PCB will be under $100.

Jeff

[C.Plavan]

I reverted back from the Race Capture Pro mk1 to Traqmate. As with any tablet, you cant see it in direct sunlight if you want to use the digital dash feature of the RCP. If they come out with a tablet that you can see in direct sunlight, I may go back.

The Traqmate also has tons of support since its been out awhile (Plus a dash you can use in sunlight). With the RCP you are kinda on your own with a much steeper learning curve (I'm in Biotech, and some stuff i'm slow at...lol). Not to mention you have to change all your sensors. Then again, there is no display that you can really use/ so as just a data logger, RCP would be good. But then, you have to add alot of gauges.

With my Traqmate, I'm just going to be logging actual IAT with GM sensor (displayed on dash with warning lights), A/F ratio (with warning lights of Traqdash), MPH, RPM, G's, Laptimes, at first. I have aftermarket gauges for the rest as well as a Cobb APv3 to datalog the other stuff.

[nuisance]

What about the Cobb Access Port V3?
I know that it does not have GPS, but seems to do everything else and more. Its about $600. You can adjust ECU, take the place of up to six gauges, and data log. The Cobb and a GoPro would give the casual racer/tuner/builder a lot for the money. But I have no experience with it and would like to hear the downsides.

And what about Torque Pro OBD2 app/reader for any Android device? You can take video with gauge overlays. I have this in my jeep and GLI, and yes the sampling rate is a little slow, but it is worth a mention.

I have the Cobb Accessport V3 running now, bought it because I ASSUMED it would log something important like oil pressure, which it does not.

How can I log oil temp and pressure from the Subi ECU without breaking the bank?

Thanks

[sponaugle]

I have the Cobb Accessport V3 running now, bought it because I ASSUMED it would log something important like oil pressure, which it does not.
How can I log oil temp and pressure from the Subi ECU without breaking the bank?
Thanks

The Accessport can log everything that the factory ECM can see, but of course your factory ECM doesn't have an oil pressure sensor or an oil temperature sensor. The accessport can't log what is not there. It is not just the ECM.. the car doesn't have an oil pressure or oil temp sensor. (nor EGT, EGBP, Post Intercooler AIT, etc)

There is an alternative however. The Acccesport can log the TGV 0-5V position inputs. If you remove the TGVs (which you should), you can use that 0-5V input (there are two of them), to log oil pressure. You could use the other input for temperature (with a resistor inline).

You will need an oil pressure sensor of course. I would recommend the AEM 0-100 psig sensor (http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/sensors-connectors-accessories/map-pressure-sensors/stainless-steel-psig-sensors).

As far as oil temp, you can use this sensor: http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/sensors-connectors-accessories/temperature-sensors/water-temperature-sensors.

You will have to convert the 0-5V to pressure/temp readings, but that is trivial.

The Accessport is great for logging things from the ECM, but it is not a great logger of lots of other external sensors.. and of course said sensors need to exists.

Jeff

[Wayne Presley]

The 100 psi sender is $165 and the 150 psi is $178

[nuisance]

Thank you Jeff and Wayne!!