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View Full Version : Okay so what's the Diff? A discussion about Limited Slip Differentials.



The Race Line
01-23-2014, 07:35 PM
Hey there everyone,

I have been speaking with a couple of you here recently about some options for Limited Slip Differentials for the 818 build, and I thought I would share some information that may help some of you determine which direction to go in. There are essentially three different styles of differentials for the 818 or WRX gearbox.

1) open style differential which is the stock differential. This is essentially a one wheel drive differential. Not ideal for aggressive driving styles.

2) torque biased differentials. These would be like the Torsen or Modena or Quaiffe. These differentials are fairly good for the street, however they do not offer any lock-up on the deceleration side of the differential, only on the Acceleration side. It is also important to note that this style of differential, while indeed giving both wheels traction, will continually transfer power side to side, left wheel to right, giving the most power to the wheel that has the least amount of grip on the road. To put this more simply, if one wheel is on pavement, and the other on say dirt, then the differential will transfer a majority of it's power to the wheel on dirt, as it has less traction then the one on pavement. This style is a good option for street applications that are not too aggressively driven. This style of differential is not typically recommended for track applications. One other nice part of this style of differential is there is essentially no maintenance involved with these differentials, as they utilize worm gears instead of clutch plates, which can at times wear out.

3) salisbury style differentials, or plate type diffs. These differentials are true Limited Slip Differentials. Originally designed and developed by Porsche this style of differential has not changed substantially since its development. This differential has a couple of core parts that all work together to allow both wheels to maintain traction regardless of the surface they are on. These differentials come as either a 1 way, 1.5 way, and a 2 way.
* 1 way differentials have lock up only on the acceleration side of the differential, and no lock up on the deceleration side.
* 1.5 way differentials which is what most people will want to utilize, will give full lock up on the acceleration side and about 50% lock up on the deceleration side of the differential.
* 2 way differentials lock up equally on the acceleration side and deceleration side of the differential. While there are some drivers that like this setup, most find that the lock up on the deceleration side is too aggressive, and can cause instability in the rear-end, under hard breaking.

In terms of the differences between makes and models of the salisbury style differential, there are a couple. One will be the number of plates, the differential has internal to it. Another will be the type of plates used, and their configuration inside the differential. Many salisbury style differentials will have two plates that work together to form a clutch pack; one friction plate, and one plane plate which is usually smooth. These plates are held in place by two cupped plate washers. These belleville washers determine the amount of pre-load pressure that the clutch plates are constantly under. The more the pre-load the more breakaway torque is needed for the differential to release one wheel from the other. This is important as this will greatly effect the overall feel and operation of the differential. The more break away pressure there is the more the differential can cause the rear end to feel upset, or cause wheel hop around slower turns. These differentials, ones with more breakaway pressure will require more maintenance, as they are constantly under load and will wear quicker.

There is another way that a couple of companies have developed recently, to actuate the differential's lock rate and increase both plate number, and overall durability. Rather than utilize the belleville washers to control the rates of lock up initiated by the ramps, the ramps are counter sprung against each other, and it is the spring pressure that controls the rate of lockup, which makes this style of differential a bit more tune-able.

I am very happy to report that I can now offer the 818 community several options for both the standard 5 speed WRX gearbox (bug-eye 2001-2007 donor cars), as well as for both the 5 and 6 speed STI gearbox. I look forward to answering any questions that you might have as well as help more of you now with your builds. I hope that this information has been helpful, please feel free to give me a call with any questions or PM me so that I can respond to you right away.

Happy Building all,

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

Scargo
01-23-2014, 08:58 PM
This is a good, clear explanation of what the choices are. Perhaps I could copy over the links I was working on for the various suppliers and options that each of them offer?
Also, I'm not arguing, but trying to clarify, that with any differential other than than the open or 1-way diff, when we talk about the 1.5 or 2 way diff design we are usually talking about how the two driven wheels respond when we are braking and decelerating with the clutch out and using the motor's compression for additional deceleration. That is the normal condition. The wheels could lock up from the drag of both the motor and/or each wheel's brakes, in their own individual effort to slow the two wheel's turning. The brakes are trying to slow the turning of their respective wheel and the motor is trying to slow them both. If you push the clutch in, or are in neutral, the differential is not affected by the motor. The other factors usually relate to cornering, where the weight is shifting and the tire contact patch varying.
I have to say that I had not previously thought about how the wheel's brakes can be modulated and affected by the differential (as well as the wheels being affected by the engine).

The Race Line
01-23-2014, 09:58 PM
Feel free to add what you would like to regarding what is available from various brands, I sell them all basically so I can pretty much help with any of them. If you don't mind though, send them to me first so that I can be sure of the content. Some differentials are only made for the STI gearboxes and NOT for the WRX 5 speed. I just want to be able to differentiate between the options.

Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.

Erik Johnson

Scargo
01-24-2014, 11:29 AM
Forgot you're a dealer. Sorry. I'll just leave my LSD list (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12387-LSD-yes-no-opinions-types&p=136189&viewfull=1#post136189) where it is and keep updating/correcting it there.

DMC7492
01-24-2014, 01:00 PM
Hi Erik, One of the issues with installing the LSD is trying to figure out which inner CV joint to use with which differential.
I for one would like to run the Cusco 1.5 for every day street use and not really running on a track. My 2005 WRX donor 5 speed has Male shafts on the CV joints.
What information is needed to get the correct components?
Thanks Don.

The Race Line
01-24-2014, 03:23 PM
Hey there Don,

I have all the information needed for your application already. Give me a call and I will be happy to help you with this. I was just speaking with Cusco yesterday actually so no worries on this one at all.

Happy to help,

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

longislandwrx
01-24-2014, 03:44 PM
Do you have a list of differentials that you sell that use new style 05+ axles?

The Race Line
01-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Longislandwrx - Are you looking a specific differential? Are you looking for a front or rear or both? Is this for a STI or normal WRX? The more information I have the easier it will be for me to offer some suggestions.

Happy to help,

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

philly15
01-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Do you have a list of differentials that you sell that use new style 05+ axles?

this would be very helpful info, especially if anyone notices, a lot of places that sell obx differentials list 02-06 as the working models. however we know that 02-04 had different ends compared to the 05+ so a list would be awesome.

metalmaker12
01-24-2014, 06:23 PM
Cusco rs 1.5 in my 818

Scargo
01-24-2014, 07:27 PM
Cusco rs 1.5 in my 818
Spec-F? What's the part number?

Bill Waters
01-26-2014, 08:05 PM
Hi, Erik;

I will be needing an LSD for my 818R. Track only car; 2.5 l and 5 spd. from a 2006 donor. Actually, I'll be using only the heads (rebuilt with upgraded valve train and cams) and a Cosworth lower end. Looking for 350 rw reliable hp (but may spool the boost up later...) Therefore, need LSD and Gear set and tranny rebuild.

Please advise as to 1.5 or 2.0 LSD brands, availability and price. I am also interested in gear sets, if you carry those. Finally, recommendations for rebuild shop. Can you help? please either post here or PM me - whichever you wish.

Thanks, Bill

longislandwrx
01-27-2014, 06:44 AM
Longislandwrx - Are you looking a specific differential? Are you looking for a front or rear or both? Is this for a STI or normal WRX?

A Front Diff for those that haven't purchased one for their 818 yet. Like DMC and philly said, most websites just say yeah it will fit, but use a generic picture showing a diff with female splines, only to ship something with stubs and now the buyer needs to purchase old style CVs. If you provided a list of which diffs used male axles and which used female it would be very helpful to many.

Wayne Presley
01-27-2014, 08:41 AM
I can get the Cusco $1260 and Quaife diff's $1298

The Race Line
01-27-2014, 05:35 PM
Just waiting on some information to come back to me. I should be able to post a reply here soon.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

metalmaker12
01-27-2014, 08:24 PM
They almost all (99.9) use the male axle because the lock pin on the 02 stubs is only accessible with an open diff design. So when you have a closed LSD you can't lock the stubs in. As some of you may know the male axles have a lock ring that locks them in and works on every wrx front diff I have used.