SixStarCars' 818R - NASA ST3 - SCCA Solo X Prepared Build Thread

[SixStar]

Follow us on our road to SEMA 2014 with the AEM 818R #85

Goal:
To build an 818R that is street legal, safe, and competitive for NASA TT road racing and SCCA Solo.

Donor:
There really isn't one for this build. I've been hoarding parts for a while and have just enough laying about to not need to take anything off any one car. The harness and some misc. parts will come from one of the WRXs at Go Green Automotive in Greeley. Front LCA's are 2004 STI, rack is 2006 WRX Wagon (better ratio than 02-05 and theoretically better mounting)

Aftermarket parts:

Tires & Wheels:
-295/30-18 Hoosier R6 on 18"x10.5" Custom CCW C14s - Gold
-245/40-17 Hoosier A6 on 17x9 Enkei RPF1 - Gold

Clutch - Exedy Twin Disc

Transmission - Rallispec Type RA gears with a Modena GT TBD

Brakes - TBD

Cooling - CoRaceFab Catch Can, Koyo Legacy SS radiator

Tuning - Cobb AP V3

Engine - EJ257, Killer B Optimal Oil Pan kit, ARP head studs, combustion chamber matched 2.0 heads with 0.5mm oversized flat face black nitride valves, BC springs and retainers, BC Stage 2 272 cams

Turbo - Garret GTX3071

Steering - NRG quick release hub, Momo wheel, 06 wagon rack

Seats - Sparco Sprint V with ZFD mounts

Exhaust - GrimmSpeed PnP manifolds and crossover, EWG up pipe, custom 3" stainless and aluminum exhaust from CoRaceFab

Fuel - ID1000 injectors, AEM E85 intank pump, Perrin top feed rails

Intercooler - CX racing core with custom end tanks and piping by CoRaceFab

Gauges - AEM Uego wideband, AEM Oil Temp

Intake - GrimmSpeed PnP intake manifold and TGV deletes with 3mm phenolic spacers, Agency Power 3" turbo inlet, prototype AEM intake

Hubs - ARP wheel studs with custom spacers front and rear

Rear Aero - Zebulon MSC road racing wind with XL end plates


After getting the boxes and boxes and boxes of parts out and tearing down the crate:

24401

Here's the R after pulling all the panels to get started:

24403

Here's the back 1/4 of the R after disassembly:

24404

Here's the hand built prototype coolant catch can from CoRaceFab - the goal was to make a direct replacement for the ugly plastic tank that comes with the donors.
24402

Here's the R after suspension, I needed to make it a roller ASAP to get some of my shop back!!! It's headed to Colorado Race Fabrication today to add some bracing and box in some frame members that I'm not happy with:

http://i.imgur.com/ejfjwoQ.jpg

And here's a test fit of the 18x10.5 wheels with 295 Hoosiers, kinda silly.....

http://i.imgur.com/0Cgpjg6.jpg

[C.Plavan]

Are those door mounting brakets? Or is that for a windshield? The early R's do not have them...

[RM1SepEx]

Those brackets allow you to bolt on a windshield

[SixStar]

Yeah, once I get the Lexan windscreen from FFR I'm going to do the front dash and see about removing those. We'll never use them.

[SixStar]

Towed the R over to Colorado Race Fabrication today for some boxing and gusseting on the frame. There were three key points that we located that needed some extra support. One tab was actually bent by someone running into it with their shin... :confused:

Album of high res pictures - http://imgur.com/a/ASBPB

[THE ITALIAN]

I like what you have done, the gussets. SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE
Without them, it really looks like there would be flex or susceptible to damage in a light impact

[SixStar]

I like what you have done, the gussets. SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE
Without them, it really looks like there would be flex or susceptible to damage in a light impact

The front front control arm one was flimsy, you could tell just looking at it. I don't want to hit a tire wall and have to replace the frame. The rear control arm mount... eh, the way I see it there's room for it to twist down and that's going to happen under hard braking. Running big sticky tires can do bad things.

The main concern was the rear lateral link mount, with the frame on the lift my photographer walked into it and actually bent it in about a 1/2". Plans to box it out were immediately discussed.

[Xusia]

I hadn't given those areas much thought (I won't be racing), but what you've done makes sense.

[Rasmus]

I like the added webbing on the suspension mounts. Gives me ideas.

[Santiago]

Definitely like the boxing done here.

Question on your proposed tires - you have two sizes you're hoping to run. I know why you're looking at 245s for STR3 (not sure if the 818R will be admitted into ST3), but are you hoping to run the monster 295s in another class?

I'll definitely be following this build.

Best,
-j

[SixStar]

Definitely like the boxing done here.

Question on your proposed tires - you have two sizes you're hoping to run. I know why you're looking at 245s for STR3 (not sure if the 818R will be admitted into ST3), but are you hoping to run the monster 295s in another class?

I'll definitely be following this build.

Best,
-j

Yes, we're limited to the 245s for ST3 THIS year. I'm sure it won't be enough for me but when I pick a class I stick with it and always do a full season before moving up. It's not for me so much as for the untested car and my co-driver. He has a TON of AX experience but not much track time.

For Solo you typically want as much tire on the car as possible. I came across these wheels and just love the loonacy of them. The tires that are on there won't be run more than once. We have a few sets of 285/30-18s that we were planning on running in the rear and some 255/40-17s up front. Honestly we will do what the car wants. If one setup sucks I'll just switch. I plan on bringing several sets with us when we rent the backside of PPIR for testing. Should be lots of fun!!!

[C.Plavan]

Nice work. I'm going to be firing up my welder now too.

[Mechie3]

Nice work. I'm going to be firing up my welder now too.

I'm debating.... Do I want to ruin more powdercoat on a mostly street car?

choices....

[Xusia]

If I do the boxing, I won't be powder coating those spots. I'll use that tough-as-nails spray on enamel I mentioned previously.

[Rasmus]

I'll use that tough-as-nails spray on enamel I mentioned previously.
I searched your post history but gave up. Could you link it again or post it's name?

[Xusia]

I didn't have a name or a link to provide (I get it from my Father-in-law, who gets it from a former student of his, blah, blah, blah). Based on the discussion here, it sounds similar to Dupont Imron. You use a hardener, but no thinner, and it cures to about as tough as powder coat.

Anyway, my suggestion was to find a local place that paints heavy equipment (dump trucks, garbage trucks, bulldozers, etc. - this is the kind of place that is apparently the source) and talk to them. Selling a gallon or two of a paint like that isn't how they make their money, so if they are cool people, you won't get raped on the price like a "specialty" store, but it still isn't cheap (~$100/gallon with hardener).

If you can't find any, I can track down the name of the place here and provide you their number - it just might take me a bit.

[SkiRideDrive]

I like the bracing on the suspension mounts. That was one of my biggest concerns with the kit.

[Canadian818]

I didn't have a name or a link to provide (I get it from my Father-in-law, who gets it from a former student of his, blah, blah, blah). Based on the discussion here, it sounds similar to Dupont Imron. You use a hardener, but no thinner, and it cures to about as tough as powder coat.

Anyway, my suggestion was to find a local place that paints heavy equipment (dump trucks, garbage trucks, bulldozers, etc. - this is the kind of place that is apparently the source) and talk to them. Selling a gallon or two of a paint like that isn't how they make their money, so if they are cool people, you won't get raped on the price like a "specialty" store, but it still isn't cheap (~$100/gallon with hardener).

If you can't find any, I can track down the name of the place here and provide you their number - it just might take me a bit.


I plan to use a similar product called Endura. All the tanks and trailers I work on are painted with it, tough as nails. I'm going to paint all my aluminum with it, and would've done the chassis too had I known about the powder coating issues. Be careful with these industrial paints, they're usually extremely toxic. I'll only do touch ups at home with a face mask and charcoal filters. The panels I'll paint at work, where I can spray and leave.

[Xusia]

I'm going to find out the name here shortly. I did find out its not Imron. Stay tuned...

[EricScottZehnder]

Especially for the R, do you think that Factory Five should do those supporting "mods" as standard? Maybe contact them about it.

[SixStar]

Especially for the R, do you think that Factory Five should do those supporting "mods" as standard? Maybe contact them about it.

My experience from FFR at this point has been, they have their money, we're all on our own (with a few exceptions, GRM, Snap-On, Wayne, Wilwood). They're not interested in helping after the sale is complete, they don't care that I'm making it better, they refuse to offer assistance for set-up and design of the R.

Short version - they wouldn't care.

[AZPete]

SixStar, there are a LOT of guys on the Roadster forum who don't agree with you and they have years and years of experience with Factory Five.

[SixStar]

Fair enough. My main gripe right now is I have a car that is sold knowing its unstable at speed without the aero yet I can't get any help on how or where I'm supported to bolt this $1,600 wing.

I'll figure it out but what happens when someone that isn't as competent builds one and it fails and causes an issue?

[flynntuna]

Theirs a unique relationship between F5 and the F5 community that I've observed over the years, they build the kits and the community builds the cars. The community does most of the innovation,custom work and breathes life into the raw materials FFR sells. Just my 2 cents.

[THE ITALIAN]

I agree. I have never seen a question not answered. Maybe John George can help you (the man that raced the R)
the R won't catch up for some time, you are one of a few, so hang in there. Hell, we are watching YOU build this, I like what you have done so far, but don't get discouraged this early. I was thinking the same thing that you are confronted with, where does it attach? It has to be extremely strong to stand the force.
Will you have to remove it when you need to get at the engine??
Will my hair keep falling out?

[Jim Schenck]

I did all the set-up on the R for every test we did and just like with the challenge cars I will always share any set-up or tuning info we learned (both what worked and just as importantly, what didn't). In my opinion sharing set-up data among a group of racers and track guys is what makes the cars truly fast even if not everyone agrees on the perfect set-up. I couldn't disagree more that Factory Five doesn't care about the cars once they have left here, to me there is nothing more enjoyable than seeing the owners and builders out in the cars hammering around the track and outrunning cars costing 3-4 times as much.

I also did a summary of our aero set-up and wind tunnel test results for the wing/splitter/diffuser on the forum here but I can give you more specific answers if you shoot me questions in an email.

my email is Jim(at)factoryfive.com

[metalmaker12]

My experience from FFR at this point has been, they have their money, we're all on our own (with a few exceptions, GRM, Snap-On, Wayne, Wilwood). They're not interested in helping after the sale is complete, they don't care that I'm making it better, they refuse to offer assistance for set-up and design of the R.

Short version - they wouldn't care.


I disagree , they have answered all my questions and sent me anything I needed in a timely manor. They have lend me advise and even offered to drive over to my home to look it over. I have corresponded countless issues and as a group we have resolved many issues for all future builders. Sure not everything with the kit is perfect, but it is all manageable and part of building any car. If anything this is easier to build than most of my other previous builds and restorations.

[SixStar]

Got started on mounting the brake lines and running the hard lines for the brake system. We had to almost start from scratch so it's been slow going. Finished next week sometime.

Picture Album - http://imgur.com/a/lox5Q#0

[C.Plavan]

FYI- the brake line tabs up front need to go on the inside of the frame. Not like they show in the manual. There is an aluminum piece that goes on the outside and it interferes when you mount the tab on the outside. I can't remember who posted and warned us about it.

I plan on making all lines go through the center tunnel also. Looks cleaner, and keeps them away from the hot coolant lines.

[metalmaker12]

Yea the inside bro

[Xusia]

I plan on making all lines go through the center tunnel also. Looks cleaner, and keeps them away from the hot coolant lines.

I was thinking alone those lines myself.

[Erik W. Treves]

oh ...I don't know....you can do it if you think outside the box.... :)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23829&d=1385946038

[apexanimal]

i keep seeing it and i have to ask:

why the coils of brake/clutch hard lines? room for vibration or movement?

[SixStar]

You mean to say the manual is wrong? Can't be? They spend hundreds of hours pining over this build manual so we would have a pleasurable build experience.

We don't plan on using most of the "tin" that comes with the kit. Nothing pisses a race car owner off like having to drill rivets out just to work on something, but I'll check and see when I feel like sorting through that box of death again.


The worst part about the manual constantly being wrong/off/different is you can't build A without B without C without D. A wasn't shipped with my kit, B won't fit without A, C is on eternal backorder, D just won't work in a real race situation. I'm trying NOT to have to build this thing 2,3,4 times but it's not turning out that way. One step forward, 2 back. Barf....

[SixStar]

i keep seeing it and i have to ask:

why the coils of brake/clutch hard lines? room for vibration or movement?

Yep, damping. They'll even work loose at the fittings if you have enough movement/leverage.

Also, I didn't mention this in the post, for our builds the SAE -> Metric adapters were filed in the bin. We just cut all the fittings off the donor and used those. Every junction is a potential leak. We're trying to simplify and add lightness.

[C.Plavan]

Are you going to move the front to the "R" height at some point? I have an extra set of spacers if you need them.

[RM1SepEx]

I just looked at your pictures

R height in the rear, S height with rear LCA on top of the brackets in the front... You need Chad's spacers

also noticed two fixed length transverse arms in the rear, that won't work. You need adjustables for the rear transverse lower arms

[SixStar]

Are you going to move the front to the "R" height at some point? I have an extra set of spacers if you need them.

Wasn't planning on it. I like the UCA being trapped up there and from what we measured there won't be any issue with the inner mounting point being slightly lower. The massive bolt and added spacer don't seem worth it from a structural POV IMO.

[SixStar]

I just looked at your pictures

R height in the rear, S height with rear LCA on top of the brackets in the front... You need Chad's spacers

also noticed two fixed length transverse arms in the rear, that won't work. You need adjustables for the rear transverse lower arms

We know. Placeholder stuff off the S donor.

[D Clary]

I was thinking about the upper control arm mounting. Lowering the inside mount should give you more camber gain and allow you to run less static camber, which should give you better tire patch entering corners and braking. I am not a fan of big bolts and spacers. My concern is that with the added camber gain you bump steer also increases. Have you investigated the effect from the s mounting?

[Santiago]

What with the other gussets you added to the chassis, I'm surprised you didn't just add in another upper arm mount to put the control arm in double shear. I had considered this route, so I wonder what your thoughts would be.

Something like this is what I thought should be feasible with a couple of brackets and some trimming to clear the front roll-cage strut: single position upper a-arm mount (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Single-Position-Upper-A-Arm-Mount-6-7-8-Inch-Centers,25382.html)
Or this: upper a-arm mounting bracket (http://pitstopusa.com/i-5066959-allstar-performance-4-hole-upper-a-arm-mounting-bracket.html)

I figure such a mod is at least as strong as what FFR is expecting R-cars to run and should be a good deal stronger.

Thoughts?

-j

[SixStar]

We're way too far off from any real testing, and I don't think the cars that are finished will be racing at our level.

We will just have to wait and see. I talked to several people about it and we're for sure NOT moving the upper arm.

[Jim Schenck]

Moving the lower arms up to the alternate ride height but not moving the uppers would give some pretty undesirable results with the front roll center. This would most likely (depending on ride height and tire size) give you a higher roll center in the front than rear and make the car pitch toward the rear in hard corners which is not what you want for sure. Mounting the upper arm to only the top plate would be plenty strong, that is how all MKI-MKIII cars were from FFR including the challenge cars, and those are about 400lbs heavier than the 818. Adding the spacers and using the strength of both plates is overkill strength wise, but since the mount is there we recommend using it.

[SixStar]

Haven't touched the 818R in a week!!!

Been busy with an ASP build for a friend/customer:
25263

But... this came today:
25264

2 and 2.5" IC piping from CX racing. They sent the core too but it was WAY too big. Steel for the rear hoop will be here tomorrow also. That means another trip to CORaceFab and another Friday/Saturday of custom fabrication and making this racecar a racecar.

Stay tuned!

[SixStar]

Got the rear body panels mounted solid enough for this next round of fabrication. All the materials are here and I'll be towing it over to Nayr's shop tomorrow for some work. Goal is to knock out the wing mount, intercooler and mount, IC piping, exhaust, and maybe the stand-offs for the quick release for the roll pan (rear bumper).

Lots to do but if we can bust it out then she's ALMOST ready for paint.

Album of today's work - http://imgur.com/a/djlH0#0

The fender liners need love in the front, they're a little flimsy. I'm hoping the sealing trim and some persuasion will make them fit better later on at final assembly.

[Racebrewer]

Cute pup. He looks as helpful as my deaf white cat.....<LOL>

Passing thought......... From my experience in square back, bluff bodies in road racing karts, the air behind the back panel is actually a high pressure area. Air comes around the sides and loops in a 180 degree turn. It might not ventilate as you want. I tried running orange yarn to follow air flow and it flowed over the top corner of the body and did a complete turn into the rear panel.

John

[SixStar]

Yeah, I've seen that on other cars. I'm hoping that there's enough 'filling' the rear body work from the 4 vents to create a pressure differential and since that will be the only exit air should flow over the IC. Plus since there isn't a windscreen or a roof on this car it won't behave the same as a full bodied car.

Air flow data would have been helpful, but since that won't happen I'm just going to build the thing and hope for the best. I do know for certain that the air "flow" over the TMIC will not be sufficient. I also know that an A2W is more complicated than I am comfortable with in a true racing situation.

Testing will just be ad-hoc until we're able to get it in a tunnel in late June.

[SixStar]

Got pretty far on the rear-subframe/intercoolermount/wingmount this weekend. I'm holding off on posting until it's mostly finished, it'll keep the "constructive criticism" at bay until it's done.

The very first thing we had to fix first was the badly warped rear strut bar. When the diagonals were welded on it shrunk warping either end of the flat bar up almost 1/2". This was the same on both frames and both bars. Solution one was to heat it up with a torch and massage it back into shape. We chose option two which was to notch the flat bar and kink the entire brace. Stronger, plus it actually looks pretty sweet with that slight raise in it.

25369

[SixStar]

We're using STI LCAs on our 818R but one of them is bent so we have a WRX LCA as a place holder and I can show everyone just how much caster you get from the STI arms.

WRX LCA using stock (worn out even) 205/55-16 tires, clear contact a ways before lock
26123

And here's full lock, same wheels and tires but with an STI LCA
26124

[SixStar]

Here are some pictures of our rear wing mount and intercooler. There are more but I wanted to get these up since a ton has been done since my last update.

Raw IC core
http://i.imgur.com/ZUXH1KT.jpg

Rear tower bar plating, before clean-up
http://i.imgur.com/vMowYHs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Idyz02i.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lEzPxO6.jpg

[SixStar]

Intercooler mounted and hot side tank done and plumbed in
http://i.imgur.com/zPKswNM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7TgsThP.jpg

Wing/IC mount attachment to the rear tower bar
http://i.imgur.com/tnFjw16.jpg

Raw exhaust flange waiting for awesomeness
http://i.imgur.com/LR09PZu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UZW0apc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0oOLAqj.jpg

[Rasmus]

Keep up the great work Six.

I'm following your build, avidly. Thanks for all the great pictures.

[apexanimal]

^ ditto... great stuff here.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I love your rear mount inter cooler and rear bumper and wing mount combination.
Bob

[nkw8181]

one word. NICE!!

[Brando]

Quick question on the usage as a bumper.
I really like the idea of protecting the trans and curious if you think your current addition will protect it when someone bumps into you or is it too high?
Are you going to add anything more to protect the trans or is the function really more geared for the IC and wing?

[Santiago]

Looks high to me to serve as protection for the trans. Besides, you would probably want separate components for separate functions.

C.Plavan has pointed this out a number of times. One set of bars for aero mounting, one set for bumper/trans protection. Those should NOT be incorporated into the wing mount, because if they are and you get tapped nicely you run the risk of altering your wing position in the process. Better to have a wing mount that is less likely to get distorted from a mild racing incident so you can finish the race with your normal level of aero performance intact.

Having said that, I've seen some high-level builds (a Ferrari Challenge car) use the trans bars as the base for the wing mount. However, in that configuration it was built like some sort of tank battering ram, so I suspect the idea was that if it's hit hard enough to move them, you're race is likely over anyway. I'm not sure I want to use that strategy. I'd prefer a more sacrificial set up that can take a mild tap w/no drama, take a hard tap and bend a bit w/o messing up my aero, and take a hard hit while yielding enough to disperse energy. The "battering-ram" style also weighs a lot since it needs to be overbuilt. We're also dealing with a different chassis starting point than the Ferrari, which means long bars extending out far enough, and for battering ram duty these need to be super beefy, etc., etc.

I think Plavan has in mind what I do - green flag drops, everyone heads for T1, there's a cluster-F*, and you get tagged from behind. Race just started and now your wing is all jacked up. No need for that. You should be able to carry on, not park it. Time enough for simple repairs at the shop.

My $0.02

Best,
-j

[Rasmus]

To me it looks like SixStar added that hoop there for a place to mount the intercooler, not as crash protection.

[VD2021]

Looks high to me to serve as protection for the trans. Besides, you would probably want separate components for separate functions.

C.Plavan has pointed this out a number of times. One set of bars for aero mounting, one set for bumper/trans protection. Those should NOT be incorporated into the wing mount, because if they are and you get tapped nicely you run the risk of altering your wing position in the process. Better to have a wing mount that is less likely to get distorted from a mild racing incident so you can finish the race with your normal level of aero performance intact.

Having said that, I've seen some high-level builds (a Ferrari Challenge car) use the trans bars as the base for the wing mount. However, in that configuration it was built like some sort of tank battering ram, so I suspect the idea was that if it's hit hard enough to move them, you're race is likely over anyway. I'm not sure I want to use that strategy. I'd prefer a more sacrificial set up that can take a mild tap w/no drama, take a hard tap and bend a bit w/o messing up my aero, and take a hard hit while yielding enough to disperse energy. The "battering-ram" style also weighs a lot since it needs to be overbuilt. We're also dealing with a different chassis starting point than the Ferrari, which means long bars extending out far enough, and for battering ram duty these need to be super beefy, etc., etc.

I think Plavan has in mind what I do - green flag drops, everyone heads for T1, there's a cluster-F*, and you get tagged from behind. Race just started and now your wing is all jacked up. No need for that. You should be able to carry on, not park it. Time enough for simple repairs at the shop.

My $0.02

Best,
-j

?..

[Scargo]

I think it needs to be lower AND built like a tank. I've seen too many videos lately about high-speed rear-end racing crashes.

Seems the tube that's in there now could be lighter, or nonexistent, with the tube moved below the intercooler and supporting it.
If you had crushable brackets and enough hose flex, the intercooler might even survive a rear impact and not loose pressure.
I'm going with AWIC even though it adds complexity.

[SixStar]

Clearly our design deserves some explanation.

The .083 wall chromoly tubing is in NO WAY designed as crash protection. It is a mount for the wing and intercooler.

We're not concerned with protecting the transmission. IMO if you get hit hard enough to cause damage to the trans your day is over. You'll need a new rollpan (rear bumper), shift linkage, rear diffuser, intercooler, etc. Putting a bar there will just cause more damage, if you mount it to the frame then when you get hit you now need a frame, I'm going to pass on that.... Plus you're transferring energy into a structure to which YOU are mounted, that's a recipe for getting hurt.

The engine and trans are mounted with Group N rubber mounts, they will give a little, they will shear off if hit hard. There isn't any more room in the back of these cars, there's less than a 1/4" between the shifter and the rollpan and maybe 4" tops between the pan and the transmission. It's a tube chassis fiberglass car, if you get hit it's going to be destroyed. Don't get hit. :D

[metalmaker12]

I agree to all points. Nice idea for mount

[tmoretta]

Yes, but how about a street car? Wouldn't it be sensible to have some sort of trans. protection in the event of a parking lot bump to the rear?

[07FIREBLADE]

Simple fix for that back your car into the space and dont hit anything ;)

[SixStar]

The car is inherently fragile. The tires are the last substantial part in the front before you get into 4' of glass and tin. Correct me if I'm wrong but part of the allure of a kit car is that it's basically an engine on wheels that has a seat without all the nanny bits you get with a road car.

[Scargo]

Wow. I'm just not in agreement on hardly any of this. It defies (my) logic. An R has to meet NASA and SCCA cage requirements. Our use of the term fragile may be different, but the car isn't unsafe or weak. To say, "don't get hit" isn't realistic. Having a rear impact go straight into the tranny and engine means it's going to end up in your back and perhaps your fuel cell. I certainly will sacrifice my whole car before my body.

[Santiago]

Wow. I'm just not in agreement on hardly any of this. It defies (my) logic. An R has to meet NASA and SCCA cage requirements. Our use of the term fragile may be different, but the car isn't unsafe or weak. To say, "don't get hit" isn't realistic. Having a rear impact go straight into the tranny and engine means it's going to end up in your back and perhaps your fuel cell. I certainly will sacrifice my whole car before my body.

Agreed...so much agreed...

This is Six Star's build thread, so rather than further muck up his space maybe we should take up the matter of "rear impact solutions" in a separate thread.

The last I'll say of it here is that we all have our own sense of what risk we're willing to take on, so we should expect that each of us is going to prioritize what we do differently. However, acknowledging a risk and ignoring a risk are not merely different risk management strategies, since one seems to admit of individual judgment while the other seems reckless.

Best,
-j

[SixStar]

So you're saying that FFR is selling and racing unsafe cars?

Their car is NASA legal, no issues. You're aware that ALL safety rules are in place to keep the driver safe right? It's a car, it's made of parts, if those parts get damaged you can replace them. If you get damaged it's a bit tougher to just replace, say a spine.

Again, any accident that can do enough damage to "go straight into the tranny and engine means it's going to end up in your back and perhaps your fuel cell" isn't going to be solved by a simple bar across the back of the car. This isn't NASCAR....... I'm not sure you realize how much TT drivers stay out of each others way when on course.

In the end Santiago is right, it's my car and my build and the beauty of that is I can do what I feel is right. On top of that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

[Scargo]

So you're saying that FFR is selling and racing unsafe cars?

Their car is NASA legal, no issues. You're aware that ALL safety rules are in place to keep the driver safe right? It's a car, it's made of parts, if those parts get damaged you can replace them. If you get damaged it's a bit tougher to just replace, say a spine.

Again, any accident that can do enough damage to "go straight into the tranny and engine means it's going to end up in your back and perhaps your fuel cell" isn't going to be solved by a simple bar across the back of the car. This isn't NASCAR....... I'm not sure you realize how much TT drivers stay out of each others way when on course.

In the end Santiago is right, it's my car and my build and the beauty of that is I can do what I feel is right. On top of that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
I don't want to get in a pissing match over this and I don't see that I need to say more about it after this.
First, there's many ways to build, modify, place components and accessorize this kit car. What's "best" or even "better" will be debatable. So, I'm in complete agreement with you that everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

I want to be clear that YOU implied it was unsafe, NOT ME. You said, "The car is inherently fragile." "...it's basically an engine on wheels that has a seat without all the nanny bits you get with a road car." "if you get hit it's going to be destroyed." Referring to it as "tin" is a slur in the US when referring to a car. I said, "An R has to meet NASA and SCCA cage requirements.", so I am well aware that the 818R was approved to race by NASA. I was there. But NASA nor SCCA makes you build a crash-safe car in every respect. They don't inspect welds and they generally don't care about the efficacy of the design beyond some basic parameters and overall fit and finish. In other-words they won't let you race in a rust bucket that has mechanical issues.

I have never said anything about the 818 being unsafe. I said if it were me I would build it like a tank. Just recently there was a horrific wreck at the 24 hours at Daytona (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDw70C_CvDA). That's what I think about, and the fact that I sustained a high-speed crash when I had a mechanical failure on the track. Not that there's anything wrong with the 818R frame; I'm just going to beef it up, and a little differently. With my N motor mounts, there's nothing in their design to stop the motor if they tear apart from a rear-end collision. I'm going to look at a way of restraining the engine and transmission a little better.

You've done a lot of neat and innovative things with your build. I don't mean to be disparaging about your project and certainly not you as a person. I was trying to contribute another opinion on what I think is an important issue.
I think that's why we are on here. I think we're using the forum to share and learn together so that we all have a better experience with our builds. I haven't even started yet and I've gotten a lot of critical comments that have helped me to better understand some things. I expect I'll get a lot more criticism before it's over for all my wacky ideas!

[SixStar]

You COMPLETELY misunderstood almost everything I wrote.

This is not an 818R
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This is the CHASSIS and running gear for an 818R and is NASA legal and safe for the driver and passenger. This is strong.

This is an 818R (unfinished of course)
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It is flimsy, weak and lightweight, just like a Lotus or a Vette. Under it's fragile veneer of fiberglass and aluminum paneling (what I call, tin) is the CHASSIS of the 818R which is strong and safe.

[SixStar]

26387

Got the differential for the 818R today. Going to pick the car up from fabrication, phase one is done.

On to body mounting and finishing the brake likes. Another 818 owner is being so kind as to let us borrow his fuel tank since it would appear we're not getting ours anytime soon.

Pictures of the exhaust and intercooler final setup Monday.

[Rasmus]

Ah, the "WRX" brand of helical gear limited-slip differentials. Good brand. /sarcasm

Seriously, what is it? Why'd you select that one over others?

[SixStar]

Ha ha, right? Looks as Chinese and generic as a junk OBX. It's a Modena torque biased differential. Their diffs and gear sets can be found in some of the top finishers in tiny, low budget racing like the Rolex 24, and the Porsche Cup.

Mostly because the guy behind Guard Transmissions is a long time Subaru guy, and a personal friend. Plus he's local in Colorado. Also this is the last new Modena TBD in existence, they will never make another.

[Scargo]

This diff? (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30121726&postcount=1) Says, "This is Modena's Torsen Style Torque Biasing Front Differential for the 2002 - 2007 WRX. This replaces the factory open differential, and will behave much like the factory LSD that is in the rear differential, or like the front LSD that comes in the STI from the factory."

Obviously you didn't buy it over a stock LSD just because it was expensive. Care to share the bias you chose to have in it? Why did you choose it over the clutch-pack styles in some of the better LSDs out there?

[C.Plavan]

I have the Modena in my R. Same as above. Not cheap Chinese crap. A great reputation from what I hear. I got it from the same Fella. I have been using his LSD's in my Porsche racer for years. He recommended it to me too.

Just curious, why do you need the stock fuel tank?

[SixStar]

This diff? (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30121726&postcount=1) Says, "This is Modena's Torsen Style Torque Biasing Front Differential for the 2002 - 2007 WRX. This replaces the factory open differential, and will behave much like the factory LSD that is in the rear differential, or like the front LSD that comes in the STI from the factory."

Obviously you didn't buy it over a stock LSD just because it was expensive. Care to share the bias you chose to have in it? Why did you choose it over the clutch-pack styles in some of the better LSDs out there?

Yep, that's the critter.

I've run Cusco, KAZZ, Quaife, and some factory viscous LSDs and for strength, tuning, and durability the TBDs can't be beat. The factory STI TBD isn't compatible with a USDM 5MT transmission. The theory is exactly the same though.

As for our R the only real choices (IMHO) were the Q and the Modena. I like Matt, I respect his opinion and having seen what these parts can do in real road racing situations in the Porsches sealed the deal. In the end it wasn't quite double the price of the Q but looking closely at the Modena it's definitely better quality.

As for clutch type LSDs, they require too much tuning for what we're after and on this application you're looking at several hours each time to remove and adjust the setup. Plus all clutch type diffs will wear out and need servicing whereas the TBD really won't unless you're abusing it for millions of miles.



I need the stock tank to finish my brake and clutch lines. We're still waiting for the official word from NASA about using the Boyd's tank which we've considered, but it would still need to be cut apart and have baffles welded in so..... not 100% sure what direction we're going yet. Long way off from needing it full of fuel still.

[Brando]

I just got my Boyd tank today and reading this was disheartening. So I just purchased a $600 tank that wont be NASA approved without ripping it apart. How can that be right

[C.Plavan]

I just got my Boyd tank today and reading this was disheartening. So I just purchased a $600 tank that wont be NASA approved without ripping it apart. How can that be right

Why would you think the Boyd Tank would be racing legal? No rubber bladder, not FIA certified. No where does Boyd claim any of that.

If you look (search) at a few threads going on, you can see the search and opinions on finding a correct race legal cell. I'm throwing a Fuel Safe in the passenger area. Better balance, and far, far away from the motor and headers.

I'm sure you can sell it quickly and recoup your money.

[longislandwrx]

I'm waiting to see what the price quotes come in at for a legal stock location tank, if its $1600 i'll pass and do what plavin is doing, passenger seat location.

Step 1 remove passenger seat

Step 2 bolt fuel cell to seat rails

Step 3 pump fuel from main tank to cell, move line from stock tank/surge tank to cell


an ed112 tank should be a good fit/cheap option.

[SixStar]

Boost piping is done. Exhaust is done.

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V-band flange for quick change exhaust allowing us to run a muffler at SCCA Solo events and on the street and a straight pipe for the track
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[SixStar]

I'm waiting to see what the price quotes come in at for a legal stock location tank, if its $1600 i'll pass and do what plavin is doing, passenger seat location.

Step 1 remove passenger seat

Step 2 bolt fuel cell to seat rails

Step 3 pump fuel from main tank to cell, move line from stock tank/surge tank to cell


an ed112 tank should be a good fit/cheap option.

Yeah that's a good idea. Having some sort of quick change option for track days. I don't like the idea of giving up the passenger seat permanently, one of the best parts is that you can terrify someone else with these cars!

[longislandwrx]

Yeah in my head I will bolt the inline pump right to the cell mount and have an additional electrical connector under the seat ready to go. I think the whole procedure will be doable in an hour, maybe 30 minutes once I get the hang of it.

I'll need the passenger seat too sometimes. You never know who's going to want a ride ;)

[Scargo]

I like the plumbing work. V-band flanges are so sexy a solution. I have one track that requires muffling. Grrr.
I guess the intercooler stuff is aluminum? I don't understand why the SS is welded rather than bent? I know somebody's bending it since it can be purchased in bent segments. Learn me something!

[SixStar]

I like the plumbing work. V-band flanges are so sexy a solution. I have one track that requires muffling. Grrr.
I guess the intercooler stuff is aluminum? I don't understand why the SS is welded rather than bent? I know somebody's bending it since it can be purchased in bent segments. Learn me something!

Yeah all aluminum on the IC stuff. Welding rather than bending is mostly because dies for the bender are $300-500 each and it faster and easier to just pie cut stainless U bends to get where you need. Plus tig is sexy.

[SixStar]

We're back in 818 mode. Our S is being made a roller as we speak and there should be a second S showing up today or tomorrow.

But, back to the 818R. We have the car back at the shop now after the rear wing mount, RMIC, and exhaust have been finished. Things left: plates for the wing, mounts for our fuel rails and Crawfor AOS, and a few other nick nacks. Then onto body mounting. I'm excited, it'll look like a car finally.

Here are a few pictures of the wing mount and RMIC setup sans body panels.

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[Rasmus]

I follow your R build with rapt attention and take notes. You'll see bunches of your tweeks appear on my chassis.

[STiPWRD]

I love the rear mounted intercooler but how are you planning on getting air flow back there? Some sort of scoop or wing to direct the air through it? Fans?

[SixStar]

Thanks Rasmus!!! The feeling is mutual!! I look forward to meeting you and your car on a course someday, trade cars for a run?


I love the rear mounted intercooler but how are you planning on getting air flow back there? Some sort of scoop or wing to direct the air through it? Fans?

The only opening in our roll pan (rear bumper) will be where the RMIC is located. The back of the car is basically a parachute which is why FFR has you cut openings in the back to let that air out. The air coming in will be supplied by the side vents and the two large pods behind the occupants. Our hope is that the amount of air being forced in by these four openings will be sufficient given the only exit provided flowing over the RMIC. Once the car is finished and running we will do a bunch of testing to make sure that it's operating at normal air-to-air efficiency. If it's not then we will look at using ducting first, think NASCAR style brake and/or fresh air ducting, then if that's not enough inline fans, then if that's not enough we can tin out the RMIC and force air through with the ducting and fans.

Fingers crossed it works the way we think it will and we can run a very simple and basic system.

[Scargo]

I wonder how this affects turbo lag? I don't have my kit yet so the perspectives of the images are giving me problems as I try and relate distances to my STi. In my R, I envision a rotated intake and an AWIC right in front of it. You are shifting weight rearward.
Sorry for being so critical. I am backseat driving on everyone's build.

[Rasmus]

Thanks Rasmus!!! The feeling is mutual!! I look forward to meeting you and your car on a course someday, trade cars for a run?
Oh hell ya! And with the Utah Region right between us I'd love to meet up for some head-to-head 818, X-Prepared, Solo Shoot Out. It'd be nice to AutoX in Salt Lake during the summer and get out of the heat. Car-swap? I'm down. But I want feed back: too loose, too tight, too stiff, shocks set wrong, or "Really, you're sticking with white?".

I'm even down for ride-alongs with driving critiques. The only way I got any better at driving Solo was: 1, practice and 2, having someone that knew how to drive ride along and tell me just one thing I could do better or one thing I was doing wrong. Helps to be humble in Solo. Even when I was the Solo Events Chair of the Las Vegas Region, I'd ask for people to ride with me and tell me how to improve.

[Slatt]

The only way I got any better at driving Solo was: 1, practice and 2, having someone that knew how to drive ride along and tell me just one thing I could do better or one thing I was doing wrong. Helps to be humble in Solo.

Absolutely. :) And you need to pay attention to details, too. Good luck with the knee thing.

[Goldwing]

I wonder how this affects turbo lag?

I doubt lag will be an issue. Turbo VW piping is longer usually having the turbos in the back of the engine, running to an intercooler in front of the right wheel, then up to the from of the engine to the intake. Those are comparable to Six Star's if not longer, and the VW's do pretty well. Spool away.

[Goldwing]

Question. Maybe I didn't read back far enough. That rear hoop extending around the back from the shock tower brace. Is that part of the R cage, or your addition? Looks like a good frame for a drop in trunk tray. As well as adding a little protection to the transmission shift linkage.

[Xusia]

They added that.

[SixStar]

Question. Maybe I didn't read back far enough. That rear hoop extending around the back from the shock tower brace. Is that part of the R cage, or your addition? Looks like a good frame for a drop in trunk tray. As well as adding a little protection to the transmission shift linkage.

Yeah that's our addition. I'm going to test fit it on our S later today to make sure that it will work with multiple vehicles. It's just for the wing and the RMIC, not designed for any protection.

[Xusia]

I will say that in my case I like it as a potential trunk frame.

[SixStar]

It would work VERY well for that. Some fiberglass and you could make a useful and rather large trunk space.

Ran into a strange issue yesterday and I'm not sure how the eff it's been overlooked for so long, I must be overworked!

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FFR is sending us another flat ball joint mount so no issue there. Still not sure what the solution to the S will be though since we have what appear to be two lefts and they can't be flipped to match. I vaguely remember this being a huge deal for the early S owners but searching the piles of threads has yielded me very little in the way of an answer, and since it appears there are now 3 versions of the upper arms it only adds to the confusion.

[metalmaker12]

Get back to you on this

[Xusia]

As far as I know, there are only 2 versions - angled and straight. I have chassis #77 and got the angled upper control arms, even though others before got the straight ones, so people could have either. Or in your case, BOTH! LOL

The straight one can be flipped, so it works as is. The angled ones require some work when you flip it. You have to swap the long & short black turnbuckle adjusters, and in the process you have cut the longer threaded "bolt" they attach to (by an inch I think?). It's been documented elsewhere.

Proper assembly is (and this is straight from FFR):
If angled, angle points out at the top
Zerk fittings up
Shorter black turnbuckle adjuster toward the rear of the vehicle

So simply assemble accordingly, and cut the one threaded part that's too long (check for the proper measurement though - don't take my word on it).

[longislandwrx]

fate066 had the best measurements on cutting the threaded section.

[SixStar]

Referring to the gold ball joint mount, you'll have one with the weld in front and one with it in back. So they will basically never match? That stinks. I'm going to rock the flat ones and see if I can get something from SPC that will match on the S cars.


Side notes. There has been some discussion of weight that we've been adding to the rear. So far here's what we have:

Exhaust - 5.25lbs
RMIC and piping - 19.75lbs
RMIC/Wing mount - 13lbs

So ~33lbs added to the back of the car, I can live with that given it allows me to run the GTC300 wing and have that downforce that we need.

[Xusia]

Referring to the gold ball joint mount, you'll have one with the weld in front and one with it in back. So they will basically never match?

Correct if you use the angled ones.

[Canadian818]

My kit also came with one of each, I sent back the angled one and they've sent a strait. Did you consider making the RMIC and wing mount from aluminum?

[SixStar]

My kit also came with one of each, I sent back the angled one and they've sent a strait. Did you consider making the RMIC and wing mount from aluminum?

We could. There are two issues there, attaching it to the steel strut tower bar will require a slip fit and hose clamps or bolts adding fabrication time and cost, and I'm not certain the aluminum would be able to support a wing.

The maximum potential downforce you can get with a GTC300 wing is just over 1500lbs. running at 120mph. Now we all know that WON'T happen with our cars, but we did build our mount out of chromoly and "tested" it with about 700lbs of humans standing on the back, it was cozy :D

If all you wanted was a trunk it would be perfect for that. I have a fiberglass guy coming by Monday to help brainstorm some trunk options.

[Xusia]

Trunk=good! But, as long as it's there, why not make it strong enough to provide some crash protection? Personally, I'm a bit worried about larger trucks & SUVs sliding up and over the transmission & engine in a rear end collision...

[Santiago]

The maximum potential downforce you can get with a GTC300 wing is just over 1500lbs. running at 120mph.

Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here (http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=181).

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here (http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=181).
he is stacking 3 wings.

[SixStar]

Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here (http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=181).

2049 Newton Meters is 1512 Ft/Lbs according to the calculator I used.

I'm missing something here.

[Xusia]

I think you are confusing force and torque. Downforce is measured in pounds or newtons, not in foot-pounds or newton-meters. Put this into Google:

convert 2049.43 newtons to pounds

[wleehendrick]

I'm missing something here.

you're missing 'g'.

You're not converting torque, your converting Force (N) to mass (lbs); the conversion (4.4 N to a pound) assumes standard gravitational constant.

edit: yes, lbs is force too, kg is mass

[SixStar]

Ah ha. Well then, cough, cough, we clearly OVER tested our wing mount as was our intention!!! ;)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ah ha. Well then, cough, cough, we clearly OVER tested our wing mount as was our intention!!! ;)
I like your recovery.
In engineering I always say.
"if you can't fix it, feature it."

[SixStar]

Ha ha, thanks.

I just build them and race them. I leave the hardcore math to others.

[SixStar]

After falling down a flight of stairs and busting himself up pretty bad, our master fabricator is back at it. Focus is back on the 818R and it will get the majority of our attention from now on until it runs. Today is body mounting, we're going with a bolt on setup for the 1/4 panels so they can be removed when needed.

Pilot holes were drilled at intervals on the bottom of the car, we're using 5 fasteners per side on the bottom. Those holes are then countersunk and hogged out a bit giving the flange nuts a place to tuck up and a bit more surface area for the weld.

Holes aren't pretty, but that's the point actually:
http://i.imgur.com/WufE5kN.jpg

Here's the nut after it's been welded into the frame (bolt is for holding nut):
http://i.imgur.com/ikRgnKY.jpg

After welding:
http://i.imgur.com/udqTOec.jpg

After grinding flat (just needs to be close so the body will sit flush):
http://i.imgur.com/LZzfbEK.jpg


Also, here are some 1/4"ish spacers we made to solve the radiator mounting issue:
http://i.imgur.com/AKlspiz.jpg

Mounted, much more better:
http://i.imgur.com/mBX6MG0.jpg

[longislandwrx]

Yeah that's about the size spacer I needed. nice work.

[SixStar]

Got the 1/4s and diffuser mounted up today. I must say I'm very happy with how it turned out. The roll pan uses 6 boltes, 3 more for the diffuser, 11 per 1/4 and it's all off.

The bottom of the 1/4s - 5 used
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Diffuser:
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[Rasmus]

Looking good.

[Scargo]

I know you said you will get the frame painted so this will all get stripped down at some point. I was hoping to see some documentation of how you gusseted and strengthened the frame.

[SixStar]

I know you said you will get the frame painted so this will all get stripped down at some point. I was hoping to see some documentation of how you gusseted and strengthened the frame.

Page 1 of this thread - http://imgur.com/a/ASBPB

Easy to miss, I had to search for it and it's MY thread! :D

[SixStar]

Didn't have my camera yesterday so this will skip ahead quite a ways. We have a solution for the wing finally! Fender liners are mounted to the 1/4's. Rear bumper comes off as a unit as does the wing and intercooler mount. Working on mounting the decklid and engine cover next. Taking our time and making sure it all goes on and more importantly comes off fast and easy. Our PnP intake and TGV deletes came from Grimmspeed yesterday too! Yay!

Album of pictures - http://imgur.com/a/GzOqI#0

[C.Plavan]

As far as I know, there are only 2 versions - angled and straight. I have chassis #77 and got the angled upper control arms, even though others before got the straight ones, so people could have either. Or in your case, BOTH! LOL

The straight one can be flipped, so it works as is. The angled ones require some work when you flip it. You have to swap the long & short black turnbuckle adjusters, and in the process you have cut the longer threaded "bolt" they attach to (by an inch I think?). It's been documented elsewhere.

Proper assembly is (and this is straight from FFR):

If angled, angle points out at the top
Zerk fittings up
Shorter black turnbuckle adjuster toward the rear of the vehicle

So simply assemble accordingly, and cut the one threaded part that's too long (check for the proper measurement though - don't take my word on it).

I thought there was a discussion that if you had the newer angled UCA's you did not need to cut. Or am I smoking crack?

[Scargo]

I thought there was a discussion that if you had the newer angled UCA's you did not need to cut. Or am I smoking crack?
Only you know that... but I don't think you are delusional. If you read this thread "A little confused about front upper Control Arm..." (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12011-A-little-confused-about-front-upper-Control-Arm&highlight=angled)you might feel like you have smoked crack.:rolleyes: And I am not sure what the final answer is...

[Xusia]

I can only answer for my situation: Chassis #77, angled UCA's. I called was told to cut...

[SixStar]

The guys that make the arms and sell them to FFR were here the other day. They don't recommend cutting the mount. Instead they suggest that everyone just use the flat mounts. But yes if you have the angled ones you do have to flip and cut one.

[Xusia]

Did you ask them why they don't just make a left and a right?!?

[SixStar]

Did you ask them why they don't just make a left and a right?!?

The upper arms that are included with the kit aren't something they sell to the general public. All the complete arms they sell have equal length center sections (the black large twisty bit). So as they are off the shelf it's a non-issue. When you start to mix and match long and short "arms" is when you run into this left/right problem. So on the complete arms they sell you will have a bolt in front on one side and a weld in front on the other but since the middle of the arm is the same you don't have to cut it. I was never REALLY bothered by having a weld in front on one and a bolt on the other, the part I didn't like was having one arm that was cut, having less material in the center section and thus being potentially weaker on one side.

My suggestion is to just buy the flat ball joint mounts. They give a great angle on the joint and the boot fits WAY better. Now I do have two different flat ball joint mounts on the 818R as they came at different times, so we will just have to see what we can get and buy 3 more of those (for #80 and #85).

Also..... I'm NOT bashing FFR here, they saw an issue and presented a decent solution for the general public. I plan on racing this car VERY VERY hard and would just rather not have issues even though I honestly don't think there would ever be any. Just my $0.02 on the situation.

[Xusia]

To me, that really begs the question of what advantage there is going with different lengths on each side of the arm.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

To me, that really begs the question of what advantage there is going with different lengths on each side of the arm.

I suspect when FFR designed the car they started with equal length arms. Along the way the decide on more caster and the arms became uneven.
At sema 2012 they were the same length on the go kart. 27598
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Bob

[SixStar]

Yep. I think they realized that they needed to tilt the top of the spindle back to get the caster they wanted. IMO there could have been many problems solved by just lengthening the LCA mounts (caster, tire clearance, etc.)

[Scargo]

With unequal arms I'm assuming there is an increase in caster with compression. I don't know what the lower arm is doing as it moves. Does anyone?
Let's assume that in compression, or bump, that for a street version, this increase in caster might be desirable. We also know that caster change has a big effect on bump steer. This might be dramatic if the geometry is fiddled with.

Of course everyone has their own goals for the car. An autocross setup would be quite custom.
Other factors might be that with equal lengths on top, and moving the bottom suspension forward to regain caster, it would give more room for a bigger wheel diameter but also increase the wheelbase and extend the front of the car and shift weight to the front.

[D Clary]

If you extend the wheel base forward it shifts weight to the rear

[Xusia]

Bob, I suspect you are right. My thought was they could have achieved the same thing by moving the mount, instead of shortening one side of the UCA.

[metalmaker12]

Yep. I think they realized that they needed to tilt the top of the spindle back to get the caster they wanted. IMO there could have been many problems solved by just lengthening the LCA mounts (caster, tire clearance, etc.)

Agreed!

[SixStar]

Moving right along with the race car when we're not busy with customer's cars our the fleet of other race cars we build and maintain. Finally got the doors mounted up, not 100% done but the concept is there. Spent WAY too much time on the "wiper cowl" - three days is just silly, but it really really doesn't fit well with the extra chassis bars on the R. We have it close enough to start thinking about the windscreen and front end though.

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Starting to look like a car finally. More body mounting then we can tear it all down and send it to paint!

[Brando]

Spent WAY too much time on the "wiper cowl" - three days is just silly, but it really really doesn't fit well with the extra chassis bars on the R. We have it close enough to start thinking about the windscreen and front end though.
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I'm struggling on the wiper cowl & windscreen install. I was hoping someone might start an thread on the R sub forum. Since your leading the way any chance you have the time to show us the path you took?
How did you go about mounting your doors?

[SixStar]

I'm struggling on the wiper cowl & windscreen install. I was hoping someone might start an thread on the R sub forum. Since your leading the way any chance you have the time to show us the path you took?
How did you go about mounting your doors?

No problem. I'll do a quick write up on how I did the cowl in the R forum tomorrow. Doors I'll post here.

[SixStar]

Sorry for the delay. Got busy getting ready for the NASA race this weekend. I'll try and fit it in early next week.

[SixStar]

Finally found some spare time, so on the subject of "wiper cowl" mounting, cut, cut more, cut MORE. We spent 2 days on this and it's still not 100% how I'd like it to fit. We're going to mount the actual screen next and see if that helps with getting the right arc on the cowl. The underside aluminum will need a good deal of work to fit at well. In the end the screen, dash, cowl, under side aluminum and the doors will all come to the same point up front with the doors holding the edges down on our car.

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A word of caution.... read ahead.... my guy got lucky with the master cover, he cut a bit too much off the cowl but it was able to be covered up with just a slightly off center hood support. Lesson learned. We still have to rivet the Dzus fasteners on in a few spots and we will have the quick turn ones over the masters that don't need a tool. I should have all that done Monday along with a tow strap solution I hope.

Here's how I chose to mount the doors:
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So on the top I notched a Dzus plate to fit the roll bar structure, super simple. We will have something similar in the back and the front with some 1" strap being the supporting material. I'm waiting on finishing the rear panels before moving forward with all of that. I'm pretty damn proud of the bottom door mount, we reused the grommets from the shifter and just pushed them into the 1/4 panel/rocker. A pair of 3/8" hood pins bolt to the door skin and push into the grommets. Done, easy. The doors aren't heavy nor are they structural so only the bare minimum to keep them on is needed.

When I ordered the pins for the doors I also ordered aluminum 1/2" pins for the rest of the car, this equated to an almost 3lb weight savings over the entire car! We're not worried about weight, but every little bit helps, especially high up. It seems silly until you think about the % that is of the total wight of a sub 2k car!

[C.Plavan]

Where did you get the hardware with the big convex washers and allen head bolts? I have been looking all over for those.

[Scargo]

Where did you get the hardware with the big convex washers and allen head bolts? I have been looking all over for those.
Believe it or not, I found a lot on Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/aluminum-conical-washer

Probably what you are looking for. Allstar countersunk bolts/washers. (http://www.jegs.com/p/Allstar-Performance/Allstar-Countersunk-Bolt-Kits/2157062/10002/-1)

[SixStar]

Summit. They're from Allstar. Great for covering up sloppy drilling and securing large panels.

[SixStar]

Received some parts for the R today, it's been months since the car has been touched, plan on that changing soon.

Killer B Oil Pan, Windage, and Pickup and a EJ20SS to put it all on. The SS stands for Secret Sauce!

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[SixStar]

Did some quick and dirty mock up of the front end and splitter for the open house on Sunday. She looks angry!

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[nkw8181]

Looking good looking good!

[Frank818]

Wow I never thought gold wheels would look that good. Just don't drive with that wheel adjustment. :)

You put the IC directly in the back or the rear bumper?

[longislandwrx]

Wow I never thought gold wheels would look that good.

agreed, they look really good with the white.


gold powdercoat for the frame? bad ***.

[SixStar]

I had to rob the lateral links from this car for #80 so it only has one RS link on each side and a ratchet strap, ha ha ha.

[C.Plavan]

I bet its hard to get those doors on with the fenders right? I was looking to mount my doors like you did, but I think with the fenders it would be very difficult. I need to slide my doors into the front pocket to get them in, I dont think with the pins I would be able to. I'll look more closely soon.

[SixStar]

You know I never thought about it until just the other day and you're right. Honestly I don't see a reason they would need to come off but I'm going to revisit my mounting solution next week.

[metros]

Details on that front tow strap?

[SixStar]

Details on that front tow strap?

It's for looks. That one wasn't long enough. From the front bumper to any real structure is 32" My main concern with using a soft strap would be if there was ever an extreme angle when towing it could destroy the bumper and splitter. I'm looking at a few other options, for now the car can be towed with the roll bar, it's how we do the dragsters and works very well if you have a driver in the car to hold up the strap.

[SixStar]

With the whole SEMA/AEM build things have taken a different path than I envisioned. No longer concerned with rules we're going all out on this car.

The majority of the bolt ons will still be Grimmspeed (ported intake, TGV deletes, PnP exhaust manifolds, crossover, EWG up pipe, phenolics, and EBCS), Killer B pickup, pan and windage on a 257 block, 2.0L heads that have been combustion matched to the 2.5 with BC springs, retainers and Stage 2 272 cams, .5mm over valves, Perrin fuel rails, ID 1000 injectors, AEM E85 fuel pump, Crawford AOS, Exedy twin disc clutch, GT Modena TBD, RalliSpec RA gears, COBB V3 AP, and of course the CORaceFab custom RMIC. New to the mix is a Garrett GTX3071R turbo, pretty excited about that! new goal for the car is a safe 350whp on E85. Should be EASY to reach, might be harder to not push past to be honest. Worst case it makes 400 and we see how long the stock pistons last before the lands crack, then it'll be onto the Weisco setup we run in all our customers cars. It would be nice to do it all at once but this build has already exceeded budget by a bit and there are a few things left to source still.

[Rasmus]

No longer concerned with rules we're going all out on this car.

Darn. I was looking forward to seeing how well it'd do in X Prepared.

[SixStar]

Have they even allowed it in XP yet? From what I know 2015 will be E-mod.

[Scargo]

Seems foolish that you would even start off with stock pistons. If the boost is below 22 and everything else is perfect then roll the dice.

[SixStar]

The good news is, I have LOTS of 257 blocks and even more brand new pistons to put in those blocks. Also I'm not greedy. The car will be tuned to 15-18psi and will be fine. There's no point in turning it up to 22-24psi just to make a number to impress someone and break things.

[JeromeS13]

The good news is, I have LOTS of 257 blocks and even more brand new pistons to put in those blocks. Also I'm not greedy. The car will be tuned to 15-18psi and will be fine. There's no point in turning it up to 22-24psi just to make a number to impress someone and break things.

But, why gamble? I've seen the OEM pistons fail at stock boost levels...

[SixStar]

About 3,000 reasons.

We're using a brand new zero mile short block. If it will make you feel better I'll gladly let you buy us a built short block.

Checks can be made payable to:

Six Star Cars
ATTN: SEMA Donations
423 25th St
Greeley CO 80631

[Rasmus]

Have they even allowed it in XP yet? From what I know 2015 will be E-mod.
You're correct. The SCCA classified the 818 into E Modified and moved the GTM out of XP and into EM.

[iWire]

:D

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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.808638262499771.1073742033.115786161784988&type=1

[Scargo]

About 3,000 reasons.
We're using a brand new zero mile short block. ...
I'm still not getting it. You say if it goes boom you will put Weisco pistons in it. Those may be less than $500 for you.
You have about $2K invested in the shortblock. You could lose that, big valve heads, cams, time invested, etc.
400WHP is nothing to sneeze at.

[SixStar]

I'm still not getting it. You say if it goes boom you will put Weisco pistons in it. Those may be less than $500 for you.
You have about $2K invested in the shortblock. You could lose that, big valve heads, cams, time invested, etc.
400WHP is nothing to sneeze at.

Cracked lands don't kill a motor. Just smokes a bunch. If they crack they crack. Personally I'm aiming for 300whp which on our turbo is 15-18 psi and is well within the range of the stock pistons.

[SixStar]

:D

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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.808638262499771.1073742033.115786161784988&type=1

I can't wait to see this in person. Thanks so much for all the hard work!

[JeromeS13]

Cracked lands don't kill a motor. Just smokes a bunch. If they crack they crack. Personally I'm aiming for 300whp which on our turbo is 15-18 psi and is well within the range of the stock pistons.

I'm just saying... If you already have zero mile shortblocks laying around, at least do a drop-in set of upgraded pistons... It may not be the 100% correct way of doing it, but it will save you a lot of headache in the long run. Even at ~ 240 hp, I've seen the stock pistons fail. Depending on the severity, the failed ringland can make a motor eat itself.

[SixStar]

Picked up the heads today. Flat face 0.5mm oversized valves, BC springs and retainers, BC Stage 2 272 cams, combustion matched to 2.5L.... super cool!

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Got a little bit done on the doors also. I won't be able to finish them until Monday when the frame arrives, some clearancing needs done, I didn't consider the thickness of the ABS plastic door panels, should be short work.

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[Rasmus]

Head's look pretty.

Why you putting inner door skins on the R?

[SixStar]

Because the fiberglass is ugly and the car is going to SEMA. If I can find the door pulls those are going on too.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I didn't consider the thickness of the ABS plastic door panels, should be short work.

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Hi Sixstar,
You may not have a problem. Most of the door skin goes inside the door fiberglass.
Bob
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[SixStar]

Nice! Thanks for that. It's a few weeks off from anyway.

The good news is I got all the parts back from paint today including the FRAME!! The bad news is I didn't get to touch it as I spent a good part of the day tuning cars. I did a few little things, didn't get the real camera out so cell phone pics will have to do.

The frame. As close to the blue on my rally car as I could get with powdercoat.
http://i.imgur.com/6B6QpL3.jpg

Got the thermal barrier mounted on the secondary firewall and set that in:
http://i.imgur.com/pj1s1af.jpg

Our iWire harness came today too so of course I just had to mount the ignition panel before I left.
http://i.imgur.com/1ZbVcFF.jpg

Goals tomorrow: assemble front and read hubs, with the ARP studs and new bearings, modify the steering column, mount the firewall and fuel tank, mount some panels, maybe pedals and boosters... depends.

38 days! Onward!!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

SixStar
looks great.
is that last picture the padded dash?
Bob

[SixStar]

SixStar
looks great.
is that last picture the padded dash?
Bob

Thanks, no that's just the new plastic ones.

[Frank818]

Is your thermal barrier just thin gold foil glued on something?

[Santiago]

Beautiful frame! Even with the BIW that should look great. I've been toying with frame color ideas, so this is nice to see.

[SixStar]

Is your thermal barrier just thin gold foil glued on something?

I built a separate firewall to keep heat out of the "cabin" and off the fuel tank, then used this - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-010393

[SixStar]

Picture dump - http://imgur.com/a/NE5A9#0

[iWire]

Our iWire harness came today too so of course I just had to mount the ignition panel before I left.
http://i.imgur.com/1ZbVcFF.jpg



Amazing how well that thing fits in there! Got lucky when I stumbled across it for the prototype in Brando's car.

[SixStar]

Yep! Fits JUST right.

If you go all the way left too it leaves room for stickers and/or gauges.

[iWire]

Yep! Fits JUST right.

If you go all the way left too it leaves room for stickers and/or gauges.

Might be a great spot for an iWire swap # sticker. ;D

[SixStar]

Might be a great spot for an iWire swap # sticker. ;D

YEP! It'll go on RIGHT before the show so it doesn't get wrecked.

[SixStar]

Lunch break!!!

Here are some pictures - http://imgur.com/a/inhrr#0

Ok, back to work!

[SixStar]

Lunch pictures!

http://imgur.com/a/i9O0x#0

[SixStar]

Robert Thorne @ 3R Racing was kind enough to dyno the Red Koni's that came with our 818R #85. Not too surprised at the results, still better than a solid metal rod I suppose. He overlaid his Penske's off his SCCA car and another set from a Solo car for comparison.

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[Frank818]

How do you interpret this chart?

[Scargo]

Why I did not order shocks with the kit.

[SixStar]

How do you interpret this chart?

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets20.html

[SixStar]

Exciting! Our prototype 818 specific crank pulley came today from Kartboy. She's 2lbs 1.8oz compared to the stock one which is 5lbs 8.1oz and the ATI Super Damper which is 5lbs 13.8oz.

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[Boog]

So adjustments in the double adjustable red shocks aren't changing the rebound damping and only slightly changing the compression damping?

[SixStar]

So adjustments in the double adjustable red shocks aren't changing the rebound damping and only slightly changing the compression damping?

Nailed it. In technical terms those "settings" ain't doin' nuthin'.

[sponaugle]

Cracked lands don't kill a motor. Just smokes a bunch. If they crack they crack. Personally I'm aiming for 300whp which on our turbo is 15-18 psi and is well within the range of the stock pistons.

I actually had one motor where that ended up being not true. The ring land collapsed (as it usually does) but combustion pressure broke the top of the ring land between the first ring and the dish, and the chunk bounced around in the motor. Destroyed the head and the turbo. A few small pieces even made into into another cylinder (thru the intake side I would guess). Those stock Si hypereutectuc pistons suck!

[Scargo]

I have to ask about the pulley. I run a light Perrin and AFAIK I have not had any issues from doing that. That said, some say you need to run a damped pulley... even a "super damper" pulley. No need to dampen the pulses? Needed if there's lots of power?

[SixStar]

I have to ask about the pulley. I run a light Perrin and AFAIK I have not had any issues from doing that. That said, some say you need to run a damped pulley... even a "super damper" pulley. No need to dampen the pulses? Needed if there's lots of power?

You can read up on it and get a few different schools of thought. This is just for SEMA. We run an ATI road racing. Drag racing or street use I'd say a solid is fine.

[Rasmus]

Even though I run a solid pulley on the daily, I'm gonna run a harmonic damper pulley on the 818's motor.

http://cdn3.volusion.com/orgcu.trgym/v/vspfiles/photos/531101-2.jpg?1406471878
Probably the Fluidampr 531101.

But the solid pulleys got more bling so I can totally see why you'd run that for a SEMA car instead.

[SixStar]

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Lazy picture load. Enjoy!

[Rasmus]

A-arms. So. Shiny. My. Eyes.

[Frank818]

Great job on the control arms.

How long are your front brake flex lines?

[SixStar]

Great job on the control arms.

How long are your front brake flex lines?


The lines pictured are just OEM fit Goodridge lines, I think we might be using the ones that came with our Wilwood brakes though.

[SixStar]

Two big heavy boxes came today. In my excitement I forgot to use the real camera.

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[SixStar]

Lots done, lots too do. Waiting on a ton of parts from companies and vendors which is scary. In the end whatever doesn't show I can replace with parts I have.

Large album from the past few days: http://imgur.com/a/El9Pe#0

[SixStar]

One more important thing to mention, SPC in Longmont helped us find the best upper ball joint mount, here's a picture with the part number. Any Specialty Products Company vendor can help you order the part.

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[SixStar]

After lunch pictures, she's a roller again!! Waiting on a few parts then the motor and trans can go in. Finish up some fluid systems, lay the harness in and hopefully she's RTG.

http://imgur.com/a/bi3sn/all

[Santiago]

What are you running there, a car builder's shop or a animal shelter? =)

Congrats on the "back-to-roller" milestone. I'm loving that blue frame. Thanks for sharing so many pics of it.

Best,
-j

[JeromeS13]

You're killing me with those stock pistons! :cool:

[Scargo]

What ^he^ said.

[metalmaker12]

You're killing me with those stock pistons! :cool:

Ditto, deff would have not used them

[longislandwrx]

Exciting! Our prototype 818 specific crank pulley came today from Kartboy. She's 2lbs 1.8oz compared to the stock one which is 5lbs 8.1oz and the ATI Super Damper which is 5lbs 13.8oz.

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I emailed several companies about making one of these, I guess you have more pull ;)

[SixStar]

I emailed several companies about making one of these, I guess you have more pull ;)

Talk to Tom, he would be glad to whittle you one.

[longislandwrx]

will do. by the way I posted pictures of my dead pedal setup to the other thread. pm me your address if you'd like me to send you a tracing.

[Scargo]

Exciting! Our prototype 818 specific crank pulley came today from Kartboy. She's 2lbs 1.8oz compared to the stock one which is 5lbs 8.1oz and the ATI Super Damper which is 5lbs 13.8oz.

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Perrin's even lighter. What makes it special for an 818? Is it hollowed out behind the funky graphics?

[longislandwrx]

It is a one belt pulley, so better looks?

Std kartboy is 2.38lbs

Although heavier than the Perrin, all that mass is more towards the centerline of the crank. He also said it was a prototype, so if they do produce, it's likely to be lighter

[SixStar]

It is a one belt pulley, so better looks?

Std kartboy is 2.38lbs

Although heavier than the Perrin, all that mass is more towards the centerline of the crank. He also said it was a prototype, so if they do produce, it's likely to be lighter

He could easily make it lighter but for the time and cost there's a law of diminishing returns. Also you're really only going to get it to about 2lbs which is still what.... 3% of the total rotating mass? There are other ways to make power, it gets silly at some point.

[longislandwrx]

Agreed, I think its a great product, and I've been waiting for it a while.

[Mechie3]

Here's some pics I took back in 07 or so.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/053007_1910a.jpg

[Hindsight]

Does reducing crank pulley mass really improve performance? The diameter is so small, I would think the flywheel would make the bigger difference.

Does this pulley provide harmonic balancing like the stock unit?

I have read that once a pulley is lightened beyond a certain point, it will throw a CEL and can cause someone drivability issues.

[Mechie3]

CEL: Typically caused on EJ20 motors with a single cam sensor and using a light pulley and light FW or just a stupid light FW. My theory for this is that with only a single cam sensor the ECU is estimating the timing on the other bank. If it rev's too fast it gets outside of the tolerance zone for cam position interpolation. The AVCS motors have dual cam sensors, one for each side. I ran the 1lb pulley and a 14lb (?) flywheel. Never had issues.

Harmonic balancing: I don't know where it is but I saw a technical letter written in response to an inquiry from Subaru stating that the OEM pulley is NOT a harmonic balancer.

Difference: It does. Revs freer, easier to rev match, frees up a little power (more noticeable when off boost). Not my video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5VPh9LqjaI

[Scargo]

I am not one of those who thinks the engine needs a fluid type (think expensive) harmonic damper pulley. The crankshaft is short and relatively compact. Who has broken a crank? I have never seen any empirical data to support a harmonic damper on a Subaru. Some say the rubber within the two-piece Subaru pulley is for damping/smoothing the pulsations and the loading of the A/C compressor and alternator.
As to making the KB pulley lighter, there is almost no additional cost to make it lighter. Another minute or two of machining? I used to have three machining centers.

[bstuke]

I'm curious about the aluminum plate as intrusion protection. Do you have some info the aluminum is OK?

[longislandwrx]

heat treated .060 aluminum is ok, mentioned on another thread

[bstuke]

heat treated .060 aluminum is ok, mentioned on another threadGotcha. I see Rasmus did something, and now there is a complete .040 sheet that FFR supplies now, but does that qualify as intrusion protection?

[SixStar]

http://imgur.com/a/mOeHS#0

[Louisromersh]

Looking Good Keith,

Did you use the pre-bent 818 Cooling tube kit from Breeze automotive or replica parts?

[SixStar]

Looking Good Keith,

Did you use the pre-bent 818 Cooling tube kit from Breeze automotive or replica parts?

We purchased a pile of bends from a local Colorado company and then hand made all ours yesterday at Colorado Race Fabrication. There are only 5 pipes and 7 couplers. We wanted to reduce failure points and make sure that any couplers weren't behind body panels.

[Rasmus]

I love what you did with the cooling tubes.

[SixStar]

I love what you did with the cooling tubes.

Thanks. Here's a cell pic of them out of the car - http://i.imgur.com/KgtrTPq.jpg

[metalmaker12]

Smart, one upped the other ones

[bstuke]

We purchased a pile of bends from a local Colorado company and then hand made all ours yesterday at Colorado Race Fabrication. There are only 5 pipes and 7 couplers. We wanted to reduce failure points and make sure that any couplers weren't behind body panels.Is simply using SS braided hose out of the question from a cost standpoint?

[C.Plavan]

Real 818R's run at "R" height..... :P Looks great.

[MrDude_1]

Real 818R's run at "R" height..... :P Looks great.

Is it so high that it needs no bumpsteer spacing at all? first thing I noticed in the 5th pic, no spacer on the spindle.

[SixStar]

Is simply using SS braided hose out of the question from a cost standpoint?

Like the Autozone flex that comes with the kit or line a -6AN?

[SixStar]

Is it so high that it needs no bumpsteer spacing at all? first thing I noticed in the 5th pic, no spacer on the spindle.

Bump steer is a discussion for another thread. There are a TON of people that seem to be much better at designing cars than Factory Five I've noticed. It's astonishing how many automotive engineers there are on this forum :p

[Scargo]

Are you or anyone in your organization an automotive engineer? I dare say that a lot of us have studied engineering and have lots of real-world experience. Is it wise to blow us off while at the same time you are wooing us?
Don't get but*-hurt because some are critical or ask hard questions. You present yourself as a builder and racer and as someone who has a business and plans on being at SEMA to show off their product. You want to be seen and heard in this thread. You are exposing yourself to questions (whether good or bad) and along with it, praise and ridicule.

[SixStar]

Lunch time picture dump - http://imgur.com/a/hqiYS#0

All the silicone connectors and t-bolts for the cooling system came today which was actually shocking considering I ordered them yesterday! Head over to http://www.siliconeintakes.com/ if you ever need anything. Colorado company and this was my very first experience with them and I must say I'm pleased. Also, the fancy black bolts for the trans cover are from Pro-Bolt.com, shipping was a bit slow but the product is top notch.

[Mechie3]

I order my stuff from silicone intakes as well. I get a dealer discount too. ;)

[D Clary]

Braided steel cooling hoses would weigh a ton. They would have to be a -12, probably weigh 30 pounds. Also not an automotive engineer, but ffr one donor kit cars are a compromise to retain the one donor status. If you are building an R car you have already left the one donor room and need to address the compromises. If you have a bump steer gauge and know how to use it you know .250 is to much.

[SixStar]

Tech tip time. I'm sure most people have found a solution to capping off the booster fitting in their intake manifold. The local ACE didn't have the exact metric set screw that I needed and I didn't want to wait for another online order. I found a 3/8" x 24 set screw that was darn close. With a little help from a tap I was able to recut the threads and voilà she fit.

[SixStar]

Tech tip time. I'm sure most people have found a solution to capping off the booster fitting in their intake manifold. The local ACE didn't have the exact metric set screw that I needed and I didn't want to wait for another online order. I found a 3/8" x 24 set screw that was darn close. With a little help from a tap I was able to recut the threads and voilà she fit.

Set screws and tap. That little boost fitting is for the evap purge which is long gone so that got tapped too.
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[SixStar]

None of this is needed. Had I been thinking ahead on this manifold I would have welded all these shut before sending it to GrimmSpeed for porting and thermal coating.

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[SixStar]

If you don't tap the hole all the way it gives the SAE set screw a nice metric stopping point. A little red Loctite and we're done.

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[SixStar]

Ready for the upper half

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[SixStar]

Crawfish status.

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[SixStar]

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[SixStar]

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[Rasmus]

Keith, I love your work.

/begin hate
But, I've got a whole gallon of Hate-orade for the Pink and Blue.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Megatarius/hate-orade.jpg
So bitter tasting!
/end hate

How many guys you got working on the car?

[Brando]

Whenever my girl peers over at my screen and sees the pink she makes it a point to say how cute it is. We usually end up in a fight over it ;)

Your build is pretty tight, look forward to seeing it next month.

[SixStar]

How many guys you got working on the car?

I am the only person working on this car.

[BrandonDrums]

CEL: Typically caused on EJ20 motors with a single cam sensor and using a light pulley and light FW or just a stupid light FW. My theory for this is that with only a single cam sensor the ECU is estimating the timing on the other bank. If it rev's too fast it gets outside of the tolerance zone for cam position interpolation. The AVCS motors have dual cam sensors, one for each side. I ran the 1lb pulley and a 14lb (?) flywheel. Never had issues.

Harmonic balancing: I don't know where it is but I saw a technical letter written in response to an inquiry from Subaru stating that the OEM pulley is NOT a harmonic balancer.

Difference: It does. Revs freer, easier to rev match, frees up a little power (more noticeable when off boost). Not my video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5VPh9LqjaI

In my experience, it seems that the false misfire code from having a lightweight fly wheel actually happens when pulling off throttle, or when the AC kicks on. Not when you're revving the engine up while on-throttle. Similar theory to yours but the reduced flywheel inertia allows the engine to slow down more between ignition pulses so the ECU thinks it's misfiring.

An actual misfire would behave the same way where RPM's would drop mid-cycle due to a loss of an ignition pulse. With a light weight flywheel, accessory loads can overcome the rotational inertia and replicate the behavior of an actual misfire by having the engine slow down more than expected over a single revolution of the engine. The ECU then assumes there was a loss of an ignition pulse and throws the code for the cylinder that was up for it's bang when the RPM drop occurred according to the crank position sensor.

Edit: The reason this happens more on the 2.0L engines is due more to the lower sample rate of the ECU as the 2.5L WRX and STI in the US all have 32bit ecu's while all USDM 2.0L models ran on 16bit setups. The false misfire codes still happen on STI's, my bud has an 07 STI with both a lightweight flywheel and lightweight standard size crank pulley and he gets codes when in 5th gear pulling slightly up hill when the AC kicks on as well.

[SixStar]

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[Kurk818]

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Wheres the GoPro video of you driving it?!

[wleehendrick]

Nice shot... looks great! (still trying to dig the pink, though :confused:). Will the intake fit there with the body on, or is that just for g-carting?

[Mechie3]

What's the tab that sticks up just underneath the Sparco lettering?

[SixStar]

Wheres the GoPro video of you driving it?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxwbhkDjZM