MRG MotorSports 818S Build

[Hindsight]

Congrats!

[Mechie3]

Congrats. I got my plates last weekend even though it still doesn't run. Lol.

[Tamra]

Normally I post videos of our best run of the day.
This time I'm going to post the ugliest run of the day.
This is what happens when you push to hard.

This was actually a clean run with no cones.
Bob


https://youtu.be/UMEPSYvlMAI

Wow, those were some tank slappers! Way to stay in it though. Did you guys wind up in the dirt? Kind of hard to tell in the video.

It seems like most of your videos are at runway sites. Do you plan to bring the car out to any concrete events in Wilmington or Toledo?


After passing Ohio State trooper Inspection a month ago.
They told me a few days to get my VIN number.
We today I finally got my VIN number. Then I went to the Title office and paid taxes and got my new title.

It is listed as:
2015 Assembled Vehicle
Model 818S
Mileage: 94032 (from engine/dash donor)
Purchase price $14665.40 (Total of my receipts)
Tax 1026.58

Tomorrow going for plates.

Bob

Congrats!!!

[Frank818]

Bob has been VINed!! Yeah!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Wow, those were some tank slappers! Way to stay in it though. Did you guys wind up in the dirt? Kind of hard to tell in the video.

It seems like most of your videos are at runway sites. Do you plan to bring the car out to any concrete events in Wilmington or Toledo?



Congrats!!!

Hi Tamra,
You surprise me all the time, I only expect "tank slapper" comment out of my motorcycle racing buds.
No dirt, there was 20ft wide section of new pavement on a 75ft wide run way.

Twice a month we run at the Wilmington parking lot (where your van was parked) A couple time a year we run on the concrete tarmac. In between we go to other sites like http://www.cscc-scca.org/ they have the runway we run on. I can't explain why we post more of their videos.

After getting our plates this morning we put on 100 miles today driving around visiting friend and family.
We could only get standard number plated today, vanity plates in December.

Bob

[matteo92065]

B


After getting our plates this morning we put on 100 miles today driving around visiting friend and family.

Bob

Those are some of the BEST miles!

WhAt plate are you going after? The CA DMV web site is not working for vanity plates. I have to go into office for custom plates. WTheck!?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

B

Those are some of the BEST miles!

WhAt plate are you going after? The CA DMV web site is not working for vanity plates. I have to go into office for custom plates. WTheck!?

Michael gets to pick for this car. The top of his list is "STI POWR". I'm trying to get him off the Subaru theme.
I'm thinking "FACTRY5" "IBLT IT" "2FAST4U" or a tribute plate "PWALKER"
Bob

[Mechie3]

I wanted a Paul walker plate but thanks to a trooper choosing "oink" for his plate Indiana still isn't offering vanity plates.

[svanlare]

Congrats on getting it registered!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Our 818 has a 5MT transmission out of a 2006 NA Impreza Wagon. We have over 300 autocross runs on it in the 818.
We never took the transmission apart except for the center diff housing.

While cruising down the highway today there was a big thump. When we got home about 2 miles later we found trans fluid leaking.

It appears that the bolts holding the ring gear came loose. You can see the bolt heads in the following video.


https://youtu.be/IBGVQCvmhRs

[mikeb75]

Wow, that's a serious failure. Good you made it home!

It just seems strange for the ring bolt(s) to let go, especially on an un-molested transmission (Watch-IT; had to watch my phrasing there). Will wait for your tear-down to see if you find anything else happened in there.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

As I replace my shattered transmission. (multiple hole in the left side of the case) I ran into a problem. When pulling the transmission straight out the rear of the car, the bell housing hits on of the ears on the exhaust elbow. You only need to take of about 1/8"off, But it would have been a lot easier during assembly. See picture.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47523&d=1447257779

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We are mounting heater cores in our side sails.
Behind our seat there is a 6" fan that blows air through the heater core.
There a 3 vents in the side sail to the cockpit at hip, knee, and feet positions.
Then we are adding a block of plate in the side sails at the fire wall.

Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47715&d=1447899233

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47716&d=1447899639

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I think this might be my 50th 818 modification.
Michael and I installed these tonight.

Had to buy these rotors from "Disc Brakes Australia" they are special design to allow STI brakes on a WRX. Part# dba2657
Diameter [mm] 316
Thickness [mm] 20
slotted and vented

These fit my 170mm e-brake and 100mm lugs.
I had to machine down the rotor center section (black) to make room for my caliper bracket.
This give me a low cost rear brakes with 3" effective calipers. (same as my fronts)
This gives me about double the rear braking power compared to the wildwood Dynopro 120-9750 calipers with the same pedal force.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47791&d=1448076679

Mods shown in this picture. big rear brakes, shock extensions, shock tender springs, side shift transmission, and accusump
Bob

This was the mod to the backing plate. Made on hole larger for bigger bolt. Moved the other hole a bit.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75568&d=1435024420

[Flamshackle]

We are mounting heater cores in our side sails.
Behind our seat there is a 6" fan that blows air through the heater core.
There a 3 vents in the side sail to the cockpit at hip, knee, and feet positions.
Then we are adding a block of plate in the side sails at the fire wall.

Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47715&d=1447899233

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47716&d=1447899639

so keen to hear how this works out for you guys! such cool stuff in this thread :D

[tmoretta]

What are shock tender springs? Purpose?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What are shock tender springs? Purpose?

I am running pretty hard springs in the rear for autocross. 600 lbs per inch.
There is about 600 lbs static load on each of my rear wheels. So I ouly compress the spring about 1".

My shocks have 4" of travel so +/- 2" from the static position.

When I have full droop, my springs would come out of the top hat. Then, it didn't always seat properly when I came back down.
The tender springs keep the springs in place during this condition.

The tender springs are only 25 lbs/inch, they are fully compressed during normal conditions and have no effect on handling.
I hope this explains it.
Bob

47792

[RM1SepEx]

I like your heater soln Bob!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I like your heater soln Bob!
Hey Dan,
We will test the heater tomarrow. It will be 32F at 11am going to church.
Only drivers side installed right now.
I plan to make insulated plenums inside the side sails so I don't have to heat the hole surface of the side of the car.
Bob

Next project is a 7" TFT daylight readable gauge panel with data logging (not a touch screen). It will be talking SSM protocol to the engine ECU.
I am thinking about adding navigation and rear view camera to this display with a selector switch?
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

rear view camera to view downed cones? after all it is a race car! ;)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

rear view camera to view downed cones? after all it is a race car! ;)
It's a street legal race car. Need to check out who is following me. :cool:

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Some parent let their son drive his 818 to high school today. 31F

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47855&d=1448286697

[RM1SepEx]

Must be ALL SMILE!

[Tamra]

Did you let him leave it in the HS parking lot?!?

[Mechie3]

Man...what kind of irresponsible person would do that.


:D

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Must be ALL SMILE!


Did you let him leave it in the HS parking lot?!?


Man...what kind of irresponsible person would do that. :D

Mom said no until Michael promised to not get sick the rest of the school year. LOL
Yes, it's sitting the school parking lot. It should only be 44F when he gets off school today.
Bob :) :)

[Tamra]

Our car gets so much attention I don't feel safe leaving it in my secured work parking lot... I'd be terrified of a school parking lot! You hear about kids messing things up just because they are jealous. I hope they respect it.

Your car looks great by the way.

FYI your spoiler isn't "emod" legal, but it's also probably not giving many performance benefits so I doubt anyone will care. Just figured I would give you a heads up since you do autocross it a lot.

Have you weighed your car since it was mostly completed?

[Frank818]

Some parent let their son drive his 818 to high school today. 31F

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47855&d=1448286697


Nah, who cares, if he'd broke/lost it, you'd build another one anyway! lolll

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Our car gets so much attention I don't feel safe leaving it in my secured work parking lot... I'd be terrified of a school parking lot! You hear about kids messing things up just because they are jealous. I hope they respect it.

Your car looks great by the way.

FYI your spoiler isn't "emod" legal, but it's also probably not giving many performance benefits so I doubt anyone will care. Just figured I would give you a heads up since you do autocross it a lot.

Have you weighed your car since it was mostly completed?

The school Michael goes to is in an affluent neighborhood on the other side of town. It's an all boys Catholic school where some kids there have some really nice cars. I don't think there is anything to worry about.
At school he heard multiple groups of people talking about the car and wondering who it belonged to.
Michael didn't say a word.



Nah, who cares, if he'd broke/lost it, you'd build another one anyway! lolll
About that, I just pick up another donor last week for the next car
47932 47933

Its drivable, but shaves rubber off the rear tires.

[Hindsight]

Wow, that's a nice donor! Did you get a good deal on it? Tough to find with only the back smashed in.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Wow, that's a nice donor! Did you get a good deal on it? Tough to find with only the back smashed in.

It was about 3k plus fees. I picked it up from SC myself.
Best part it has the same 2.5L 04-05 sti engine as my first car. A $300 vf39 will bump it from 210 to 300HP. That's less than $3 a horsepower.
LTD
Bob

[Hindsight]

Yeah that is a killer deal. Nice find!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yeah that is a killer deal. Nice find!!
Here is another one about 40 miles from me.
clean title and runs and drives. I might have a hard time deciding to tear it apart

http://www.copart.com/us/Lot/35699015?searchId=947844337

[Frank818]

About that, I just pick up another donor last week for the next car
47932 47933

Its drivable, but shaves rubber off the rear tires.

What year Forester? :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What year Forester? :)

That was an 05 with 2.5L AVCS TD04 and DBW and forged internals.
Exactly the same as the motor as my first 818 which was an 04.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I are getting braver.
We dove the car to visit our powder coater to show him the finished car. Also to let him know that I had another car coming in 30 days.

Then we went by Lance's shop to see his 818C build coming along.
He is doing more modification than any one I've seen.

Last week we installed a 2013 5MT transmission in the car. It did not have the machining for a VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor)
With out the signal the engine is limited to 4000 RPM.

So I put in a temporary $25 prox sensor out of a box of industrial parts I had.
48011

It works but read about 15% to fast. I will have to work on that.
Bob

[lennyspecv]

It was about 3k plus fees. I picked it up from SC myself.
Best part it has the same 2.5L 04-05 sti engine as my first car. A $300 vf39 will bump it from 210 to 300HP. That's less than $3 a horsepower.
LTD
Bob

Wait, so the forester xt has the same motor as the 04-05 sti minus the turbo? What similarities do they share? This could impact what donors I look for.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Wait, so the forester xt has the same motor as the 04-05 sti minus the turbo? What similarities do they share? This could impact what donors I look for.

Yes, same motor as sti except turbo and TMIC.
Maybe up-pipe also.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael's license plate taste are different than mine.
Here are our top 5. Let use know your opinions.
Since this first car is his, he has final say.
Thanks
Bob
48027 48028 48029

48030 48031

[lennyspecv]

Yes, same motor as sti except turbo and TMIC.
Maybe up-pipe also.
Bob

Wow. How difficult would it be to use a forester as a donor, with all the other parts I would need too? I'm shocked that they share the same internals as the sti. Is there a thread you know of where I could learn some more about specifics/year-to-year changes?


Michael's license plate taste are different than mine.
Here are our top 5. Let use know your opinions.
Since this first car is his, he has final say.
Thanks
Bob
48027 48028 48029

48030 48031

My vote goes for "diffusr".

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Wow. How difficult would it be to use a forester as a donor, with all the other parts I would need too? I'm shocked that they share the same internals as the sti. Is there a thread you know of where I could learn some more about specifics/year-to-year changes?



My vote goes for "diffusr".

Hi Lenny
Read this link http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-0911-building-your-own-subaru-forester-sti/

and

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f87/how-go-faster-than-sti-cheap-8337/

Bob

[lennyspecv]

This is great. After reading both of those, it sounds to me like I may have to source just a few parts here and there, but the '04-'08 XT will work fine as a donor. I wonder why FF makes no mention of this?

Do you know if the valvetrain is the same? The redline on the forester is lower, but perhaps that's only because of the ECU.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is great. After reading both of those, it sounds to me like I may have to source just a few parts here and there, but the '04-'08 XT will work fine as a donor. I wonder why FF makes no mention of this?

Do you know if the valvetrain is the same? The redline on the forester is lower, but perhaps that's only because of the ECU.

According to http://turninconcepts.com/ my Tuner. The engines are the same.

A couple things make it a little off as a donor.
The rear LCA bushings are taller than impreza.
The Forester dash cluster is slightly different and doesn't fit as nice into the FFR dash.

Forester XT donors are hard to find with 5MT.
I have bought 2 FXT 2.5L turbo automatics (04-05) under 3k from coparts.
Both had about 100k miles
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael's license plate taste are different than mine.
Here are our top 5. Let use know your opinions.
Since this first car is his, he has final say.
Thanks
Bob
48027 48028 48029

48030 48031

Any body else?

[STiPWRD]

Any body else?
STI POWR has a nice ring to it

[BN]

My vote for sti powr

[milkman dan]

Another vote for STI POWR.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We only spent a few hours working on the car today installing the belly pan and diffuser.
In the belly pan we cut out a relief for the oil pan The belly pan was about 3/4" to long. So we left it hang over the bar with the motor mounts.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48170&d=1448850728

If we extend the diffuser 2" out the rear bumper there is a 3.5" gap between the belly pan and the diffuser. What did others do with this gap?

Miachael want to extent the diffuser out the back 4".
This it what it will looks like.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48171&d=1448851192

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael's license plate taste are different than mine.
Here are our top 5. Let use know your opinions.
Since this first car is his, he has final say.
Thanks
Bob
48027 48028 48029

48030 48031

Michael went with the "GRIP" license plate. It arrived today.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This has been a Great Year.
Oldest daughter got a good job in her Teaching field after graduating 2 years ago.
Second daughter graduated college with a degree in psychology and immediately got a good Job.
A month ago our 818 graduated form the building stage to registered, driving, and debugging stage.

Today Michael got accepted to college at Kettering University (Former General Motors Institute)
What sold Michael on the school was all the Automotive Labs. Like the wind tunnel and engine test cells.

https://www.kettering.edu/academics/departments/mechanical-engineering/labs-facilities

Bob

[mikeb75]

'grats on everyone's accomplishments this year. Hope next year is even better!

[Mitch Wright]

Great way to finish off the year.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

'grats on everyone's accomplishments this year. Hope next year is even better!


Great way to finish off the year.

Thanks Mike and Mitch.

[wallace18]

Congrats to both of you!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We are looking at a front radiator configuration.
We are planning on have a storage / crumple zone box in the front of the car behind the radiator.
Looks like it's going to work. Only testing will tell for sure.
Bob

50138 50139 50140

[RM1SepEx]

Bob, isn't this the rear radiator car? and don't you need air to flow through that boxed area vs storage?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, isn't this the rear radiator car? and don't you need air to flow through that boxed area vs storage?

Hi Dan,
Yes this is the rear radiator car.
The plan was for air to be sucked out of the back of the car. Our red neck tunnel test showed at 60-80 mph that turbulent air behind the car was working against us. Our temp starts to creep up over 190f after 30-45 minutes of highway driving.
The storage box would be installed for DD, but removed for autox and track days.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

I bought a pair of Craig's fener louvers. I'm thinking that between my AAIC and a pair of small radiators on the front sides I can recover that space for real storage. The problem is that every one of those "upgrades" delays getting the car on the road.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The problem is that every one of those "upgrades" delays getting the car on the road.
I understand that. We have a bunch of little upgrades to do to blue. While trying to get red to go kart stage.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Got some nice weather today to work on the 818.
As part of or front radiator mod, we added an engine coolant bleed port. (similar to Wayne's mod)
In my opinion it would be difficult to drill and tap the crossover pipe with it in the car.
Instead we decided to add a temperature sensor housing to the upper radiator hose. The install a 5/16 barbed fitting in the housing.
It's working as expected.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50873&d=1456024364

The next thing I want to do is measure the pressure on the upper outlet hose and the pressure coming from the front radiator bleed port.
At Idle 700rpm .
Hose from radiator port was 1ft and upper outlet hose 2ft.

At Idle 1500 rpm. Hose from radiator port was 3ft and upper outlet hose 5ft.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50872&d=1456029813

[Hindsight]

Nice idea on the bleed port via coupler.

Why are you testing the hose pressures?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Why are you testing the hose pressures?
The port on the outlet hose and radiator port both go to a tee at the expansion tank (degas tank).
If the port on the outlet pipe has greater pressure than the port on the radiator. It will block any air in the radiator from making it's way back to the degas tank.
I do not want a system that has to be manually bled of air. I want a system that is self bleeding. Similar to most cars.
Bob

[lance corsi]

Evans waterless coolant. 'nuff said.

[Hindsight]

Thanks Bob, that makes sense. I always figured that even if there was more coming from the output pipe bleeder port vs the radiator port, that there would still be enough to allow some bleeding. I agree about the self-bleeding.... very important to have. Since your test showed more pressure from the upper bleeder port vs the radiator port, does that mean you feel you aren't getting any bleeding action from the radiator?

I asked the question because I'm playing around with this stuff too now due to an overheating issue. I have the same setup you do, in terms of bleeders (though I do have my upper bleeder coming from a fitting I welded onto the upper coolant pipe - but in effect it's the same as what you have). I did, however, block off the heater core lines by capping each one with a block-off cap instead of the FFR provided U-pipe. I can't test during driving due to a bad MAF calibration that i'm trying to work through, but while idling for long periods of time, the radiator fans kick on and the coolant temp just keeps climbing. Are you experiencing an issue like this too or are you more just testing to ensure self-bleeding functionality? My right-side coolant pipe to the radiator is very hot so I know the thermostat must be opening and coolant must be flowing to the radiator, and even with the heater core line blocked off, there should be enough coolant cycling through the turbo, the upper pipe bleeder, and back down the return pipe from the degas tank to hit the thermostat and make it open (the turbo coolant hose, the engine bleeder hose, and the rad bleeder hose are all hot to the touch so coolant must be going through them all). The left side coolant pipe is quite cold though. I'd expect it to be at least warm.

[Tamra]

...... I did, however, block off the heater core lines by capping each one with a block-off cap instead of the FFR provided U-pipe.

I thought the heater core lines had to be looped or the thermostat wouldn't open? Is the cold side also hot (it should be)?

[Hindsight]

Hi Tamra, I thought the same thing but Chad mentioned in a post that Jim Schenk told him FFR was blocking off the heater core pipes instead of looping them on their race cars because that loop made it too easy for the coolant to go that way instead of going through the radiator (path of least resistance). I thought about the same thing you just mentioned, but if you think about it, there are two paths for the coolant to go when the thermostat is closed: 1 - through the heater core loop and 2 - through the turbo, then into the degas tank, then down out of the degas tank. The degas tank return line is connected to the heater core loop return line.

Maybe my thinking on this is flawed though? Oh, to answer your question, the cold side isn't hot... it's cold. Hot side is hot though.

[Tamra]

That means you are not getting flow. Cold side will be uncomfortable to touch if coolant is flowing. It'll be cooler than the hot side but you still won't want your hand on it.

I suspect that the thermostat is not opening. The top side of the engine is just equalizing temperature with the hot side hose.

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the input Tamra; I will try replacing the heater core u-hose and see if that changes anything. The thermostat itself could be the issue. It has set for 2+ years and it wasn't one of the items I replaced during the build-up.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Evans waterless coolant. 'nuff said.


does that mean you feel you aren't getting any bleeding action from the radiator?
Are you experiencing an issue like this too or are you more just testing to ensure self-bleeding functionality?

Hi Lance,
Even with the waterless coolant, I still need to get the air locks out of the system.

Hindsight,
I have a couple thousand miles and 300 autocross runs on my rear radiator set up with no coolant issues. All my problems were air flow related.

I have a heater core instead of the "U" pipe.

My thinking right now.
I will put the "T" close to the tank so both will bleed into the tank.

I wish I could find some low cost flow indicators to put into the lines.
Something like this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50890&d=1456076658
Bob
'

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I did 2 autocross fun events (no points) this weekend.
Saturday: Columbus Indiana sports car club. 6 runs each for a total of 12
Sunday: Cincinnati SCCA. Michael 25 runs and I got 15 for a total of 40

So tortured the 818 for 52 runs. It ran like a champ all weekend.
I estimated we used about 8 gallons of gas. About 1/4 the rear tread on my Toyo R888 255/40/17. About 1/8 the front tread on my Toyo R888 235/40/17.

On the 52 runs I only had one spin and Michael had none. He is getting very good at countering steering the instant the tail breaks loose.

My modified suspension is getting very even tread wear with these settings. My suspension has -1 degree of camber gain per inch of up travel. 52351

Here is a video of one of mike's runs.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=igzxJo7TPx0

Bob

[Frank818]

Really cool to see you guys having fun!
I believe you are the ones using the more the car(s), could I be right?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Great to get to see you both again on Saturday! Michael is definitely getting it---you just gotta' teach him to do a better job of dressing for the weather :p

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great to get to see you both again on Saturday! Michael is definitely getting it---you just gotta' teach him to do a better job of dressing for the weather :p

Jeff
Jeff,
Good to see you also.
Sunday morning it was in the 30s. He did wear some sweat pants over his shorts while he was chasing cones.
Bob

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff,
Good to see you also.
Sunday morning it was in the 30s. He did wear some sweat pants over his shorts while he was chasing cones.
Bob

Our Sunday was even cooler than Saturday---25 when I pulled out of the driveway at 7:30 for the 55 minute drive (wearing 5 layers on top PLUS my helmet!).

Hope to see you for the April 24th event.

Jeff

[Hindsight]

The camber and caster specs are less than I would have imagined for AutoX, though I am NO expert on alignments or AutoX at all.... just going by what I've seen from others. How did you end up at those numbers? Glad it is working for you!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The camber and caster specs are less than I would have imagined for AutoX, though I am NO expert on alignments or AutoX at all.... just going by what I've seen from others. How did you end up at those numbers? Glad it is working for you!

Hello Hindsight.
Disclaimer, I am an electrical engineer, with limited high performance driving experience. So my settings might be all wrong.


Caster at 2.5 degrees. I didn't want something the was heavy to turn but would return to center on it own.
I tried something this past weekend and it worked. I was on the gas coming out of a corner and the back end kicked out. I loosened my grip on the steering wheel and let it spin on it own. The car self recovered with out going around. So it is enough caster to point the tires the direction the car is going.
With 205 tires the car steered great. With 235 toyo R888 sticky rubber, the car is a little jetty on uneven roads.

Camber at -0.5 degrees.
I change my pick up points on my suspension to give me more camber gain. (about 1 deg per inch of suspension travel)
During a 1g corner I am seeing about 2 degrees of body roll with my spring package. The outside wheel is compressed about 1" so it is at 1.5 negating camber. The inside wheel is extended about 1" so it is at 0.5 positive camber. My goal was to keep the outside tires flat on the ground during hard corners.
I plan to go to -1.0 degrees next alignment.

Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, what does the bumpsteer look like with that much camber gain? I am at 6* caster, with out the body I found the steering still pretty light.
My gut tells me I would still like more static camber than .5*

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bob,
You didn't mention front toe. Zero or a little toe out will give you more initial bite at turn in but comes at the expense of straight ahead stability ("a little jetty"). On the roadsters that see street or mixed street and track use I go for about 3/32" total toe in. You can always run toe in on the street then give a tie rod a twist to toe it out when you get to the track and turn it back the same number of turns to put it back afterwards.

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,
You didn't mention front toe. Zero or a little toe out will give you more initial bite at turn in but comes at the expense of straight ahead stability ("a little jetty"). On the roadsters that see street or mixed street and track use I go for about 3/32" total toe in. You can always run toe in on the street then give a tie rod a twist to toe it out when you get to the track and turn it back the same number of turns to put it back afterwards.

Jeff

Jeff,
the settings are front 1/8" out (Negative) and rear 3/16" in (Positive).

Mitch,
I have never measured bump steer.
Michael and I are all signed up to see you on the NCM track Saturday and Sunday.
Bring your helmet to work.
Bob

[Frank818]

Toe-out up front, interesting.
Just learned that at the rear when torque is applied the wheels tend to toe-in. I always thought the axles would then to push backwards, which means toe-out. You made me read on toe, good thing. :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

intake air temperature FIX

At our last track day the IAT (intake air temperature) measured at the MAF sensor was 100F while running and got to 120F during a pit stop. This while only 60F ambient.

The ECU reduces engine power if this temperature is over 104F.

My son Michael took charge of fixing this problem.
Our OEM air box was drawing air from the engine compartment.

53382

Michael used 2 air box covers to modify our air box.

53383

Then he added a 3" elbow to suck the air fron the side vent.

53384

The orange elbow is temporary.
I have a different angle on order.
Bob

[STiPWRD]

Bob, have you ran the engine since doing this intake mod? Putting a bend right in front of the MAF (picture 2) will really mess up the reading and cause you to run very rich. I've done this before too (put a 90 degree bend right in front of where the MAF was) and couldn't figure out why the car ran so rich even after removing tons of fuel from the map. The MAF needs to have straight laminar air flow to work properly.

[taco20]

http://flexconverter.com/collections/subaru/products/maf-sd-hybrid-harness-02-07

Hey why don't you just move the IAT sensor into the inner cooler with this kit and not worry about what the temp is at the MAF?
I went speed density with mine and used this kit and it works great. If you have a Cobb it has a spot to let it know you are using the Chevy sensor and compensates for the different ready.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, have you ran the engine since doing this intake mod? Putting a bend right in front of the MAF (picture 2) will really mess up the reading and cause you to run very rich. I've done this before too (put a 90 degree bend right in front of where the MAF was) and couldn't figure out why the car ran so rich even after removing tons of fuel from the map. The MAF needs to have straight laminar air flow to work properly.


Hi STiPWRD,
My MAF and AIT is still between the air filter turbo. We just used an extra housing before the air filter.
Bob

53388

[Bob_n_Cincy]

http://flexconverter.com/collections/subaru/products/maf-sd-hybrid-harness-02-07

Hey why don't you just move the IAT sensor into the inner cooler with this kit and not worry about what the temp is at the MAF?
I went speed density with mine and used this kit and it works great. If you have a Cobb it has a spot to let it know you are using the Chevy sensor and compensates for the different ready.

Hey Taco20,
Before the 818, I new nothing about MAF,AIT, turbo efficiency, speed density, or subarus in general.

I'm still running stock tune open source.
That link you posted, talks like it is no big deal to switch to Speed density.
Bob

[taco20]

Hey Taco20,
Before the 818, I new nothing about MAF,AIT, turbo efficiency, speed density, or subarus in general.

I'm still running stock tune open source.
That link you posted, talks like it is no big deal to switch to Speed density.
Bob


Hey with that setup you really don't have to switch to Speed Density for the sensor to work. It just moves the sensor to a different place. It reads at a lower temp then the Subaru IAT inside the MAF. Mine ready 10 deg cooler then my gauge said.
That is close enough to actual to not effect drive ability unless it is real cold outside. It would keep from showing the heat coming in your air box and tell the computer the temp going into the intake. If you had a Cobb and a good tuner
it would be an easy fix. It is a cheap and easy solution that might be worth a shot.

[UnhipPopano]

The MAF [Mass Air Flow] is in effect telling the ECS [Engine Control system] how much Air/Oxygen is going into the engine. The ECS uses this information to control the fuel rate. Too Lean and the engine will knock and eventually fail. Too rich and the Plugs and Valves will foul up, and lead to engine failure.

The MAF is a Flow transmitter that measures in one spot and correlates this to the entire flow. For the best possible reading the MAF would be mounted in a long tube of the correct diameter. The standard way it is mounted is not optimal, but good enough for the ECS to work with. Mounting an elbow before the MAF will result in a airflow that is not uniform and the MAF signal to no longer be linear. Mounting it in a box will also throw the signal way off and may not be linear.

There is videos on the web that debunk the idea that you can improve the engine's power from taking air directly from the outside of the car. To gain power you need a large scoop that would increase pressure to the intake manifold, but it would also increase the car's air resistance.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey with that setup you really don't have to switch to Speed Density for the sensor to work. It just moves the sensor to a different place. It reads at a lower temp then the Subaru IAT inside the MAF. Mine ready 10 deg cooler then my gauge said.
That is close enough to actual to not effect drive ability unless it is real cold outside. It would keep from showing the heat coming in your air box and tell the computer the temp going into the intake. If you had a Cobb and a good tuner
it would be an easy fix. It is a cheap and easy solution that might be worth a shot.

I didn't want to trick the ECU. I wanted to get rid of the heat coming in the intake.
The configuration I have now is closer to the Subaru original setup.
So I should be good to go.
I will talk to TIC (Turn in Concepts) about switching to Speed density.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

After we damaged out first transmission, we replaced it with an 2012 MT5. It did not have a VSS sensor mount.
Our second attempt was putting a prox sensor in the rear hub abs hole sensing the lug bolt head. This worked for a month or 2. At our last track day the prox sensor failed. We suspect the brake heat was to hot for the sensor.

This time we modified the front unused CV joint and mounted the prox on the front hub.
Bob & Mike.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53464&d=1462152728

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm making an 818R roll bar for my 818s.
Can somebody measure the height of the 818R roll bar.
Thanks
Bob

53756

[Hindsight]

I really need to do this too. Looking fwd to your results.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Somebody buried our 818 under the gravel driveway.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53868&d=1463027495

Our 818s roll bar is 13-1/4" high.
The 818R roll bar is 15.5" high.
Our new roll bar is 18" high.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53869&d=1463027618

Bob

[Mechie3]

Something I may have to consider. I've certainly thought of doing a front roll bar just to help with the broomstick test (and in reality, keeping my head off the pavement in a bad situation).

[STiPWRD]

It is a marine wiper system.
The motor has adjustable sweep from 40 to 110 degrees. Mine is set at 110 and left park.
The arm is adjustable length.
It will fit totally under the hood. I just left it stick out some to get better sweep.
This one is strong enough for a 28” blade. mine is a 20"
I made a nice bracket to mount it. But forgot to get a picture before I closed it up.
Bob

http://www.marinescreens.com/ongaro-heavy-duty-3-5-2-speed-wiper-motor-12v/


http://productimageserver.com/literature/quickGuide/41535QG.pdf
Bob, I picked up the same wiper motor you did. Just curious, how did you wire it to the stock harness? Connector B8 has 5 pins but there are 4 wires coming off the pump. The 12V and ground are easy but I'm not sure I completely follow the diagram off the intermittent switch.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, I picked up the same wiper motor you did. Just curious, how did you wire it to the stock harness? Connector B8 has 5 pins but there are 4 wires coming off the pump. The 12V and ground are easy but I'm not sure I completely follow the diagram off the intermittent switch.

STiPWRD
I only used the Subaru harness for the motor. I made my own harness for everything else.
I just looked at the Subaru drawing. The intermittent module handles the park feature while that is built into the marine wiper.
There is a way to make this work but it going to take some figuring out.
Bob

[Frank818]

Somebody buried our 818 under the gravel driveway.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53868&d=1463027495


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!! Good ol' Bob, nice try man, nice try, but you ain't fooling any of us, we're 818 experts by now. :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a picture of the new roll bar at NCM today.
Going to do some videos and data logs tomorrow.

53974

I used about 6 roll of painters tape building the 818.
I think I'm going to need more if I go by this car at our track day.

53985

[mikeb75]

Are you going to try a blue tape job on the entire car? Might be cheaper than a full wrap, and you could use silver duct tape for stripes;)

Seems a bit ridiculous to go that tape crazy, I'd look for a clear bra/film wrap at that point. Lastly, no front window protection here, they need to add a layer of clear packing tape.

Enjoy the track day!

[tmoretta]

Bob and Cincy - did you open up the side vent? It looks larger, and no mesh or trim?

[tmoretta]

Mechie, are you considering building a front bar for sale? The windshield frame offers no structure at all.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob and Cincy - did you open up the side vent? It looks larger, and no mesh or trim?

Yes I did, as shown in this post.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=235781&viewfull=1#post235781

The more fresh air I can bring into the engine bay, the cooler it will be.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It was another great weekend at NCM Motorsports Park.
Special thanks to Mitch Wright (818R Builder & NCM GM) and everyone from 10/10ths Motorsports.
The 818 real got pushed hard this weekend.
Here are some pictures. Videos and data log later.

The course is 3.2 miles and we did 100+ laps at race pace.


54017
Lonely 818 waiting for it's turn

54018
Time to get out on track with our instructor.

54019
With our 195hp we were as fast as anybody in the turns but the Z06's blow by us on the straights.
At the end of the straights we were reaching about 120.

54020
Interesting back drop in this photo. For those that don't know, it is the National Corvette Museum.
More to come.
Bob

[Hindsight]

That looks like so much fun. Can't wait to do the same!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This was just posted buy 10/10ths Motorsports

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54026&d=1463411742



Congrats to Robert and Michael Gruenwald, father son team that came to NCM and enjoyed a great weekend together doing what they love. A self built kit car that has done very well this weekend.
They win the great RideTech Renegade trophy and a $250.00 gift certificate to RideTech.
Thanks very much to the outstanding RideTech team for their support of 10/10ths Motorsports and our drivers.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

At the end of the day Sunday, everyone else was worn out (lots of track time). But Michael stayed out there every minute of all his sessions.
Crank up the sound.


https://youtu.be/Bhiy8GYyzDQ

[Frank818]

Another record for the Great Bob/Mike 818!

[RM1SepEx]

Awesome Bob, gonna have to frame that one...

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This picture is Mitch Wright and Blake (also know as Young Sequoia at Ohio State)

Mitch is 5'8" and Blake 6' 9", They both were in our 818 this weekend. Blake fit comfortably and is thinking of buying one. Mitch's 818R is getting closer to having his done.

54030

[Frank818]

6'9" and not playing basket? :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a 1 lap video using a cell phone attaché to the top of our windshield. A lot of wind noise.
With novice drivers, DOT tires and no aero we are seeing 1.0-1.1 G.
Bob


https://youtu.be/M0Piy6TB5Wg

[Mitch Wright]

Great to see you and Michael, looking forward to seeing you back in July.

[Frank818]

1.1G? I'm surprised, that's low. Someone here reached 1.4 if not 1.5G (could have been FFR with the blue car, can't recall).
Why just 1.1? I mean over 1 is AWESOME don't get me wrong but I'm wondering why less than the other car with 1.4 or 1.5. That's much more than just 0.1G.

I love your cam position Bob, similar to what we find in games. lolll It shows how fast it goes. Just too windy and can't hear anything but the wind blowing in the mic. :( I can't hear you scream "Oh yyyyyeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah babyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!" at every corner. lolll

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great to see you and Michael, looking forward to seeing you back in July.

Hey Mitch,
Here is a video of you driving :o

Chasing down that ford GT.


https://youtu.be/dxbXW_77muc

Thanks for all your set-up suggestions.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is a 29 minute chart showing temperatures, speed and bat voltage
My intake temperatures that were at 100 last month are now down to 70. The new intake tube is doing it's job.

54076

This it the 17 to 18 minute slice showing other stuff.

54077

[Bob_n_Cincy]

1.1G? I'm surprised, that's low. Someone here reached 1.4 if not 1.5G (could have been FFR with the blue car, can't recall).
Why just 1.1? I mean over 1 is AWESOME don't get me wrong but I'm wondering why less than the other car with 1.4 or 1.5. That's much more than just 0.1G.

I love your cam position Bob, similar to what we find in games. lolll It shows how fast it goes. Just too windy and can't hear anything but the wind blowing in the mic. :( I can't hear you scream "Oh yyyyyeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah babyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!" at every corner. lolll

I can't scream, I'm holding my breath.

Why only 1.0G
1. Inexperience driver (more seat time$$$)
2. Tires (buy some Hoosiers $$$)
3. Set-up (ride height, camber)
4. Aero (add splitter, defuser. wing)

Don't forget Michael is driving this to high school tomorrow.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

If anyone want's the raw 29 minute data log with a lot more information.
Send me a PM with your email address.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, thank you for leaving out the tank slapper.

[svanlare]

Thanks for posting the videos. It's awesome to see you and the cars out putting on some hard miles.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

One more short video from our Great NCM Weekend.


https://youtu.be/xVEqS3Gs9SM

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yesterday we drove for an hour in a rainstorm to a test and tune autocross with MVSCC. The was a very small crowd(18) so we got somewhere between 60 and 80 runs. The 818 ran perfect. Our Kirkey seat dry out quickly.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54207&d=1463950162

[Tamra]

That's awesome, guys. Not sure we would want ours to get that soaked, but then again we don't have Kirkey's. Are you not concerned about any of the electronics?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

That's awesome, guys. Not sure we would want ours to get that soaked, but then again we don't have Kirkey's. Are you not concerned about any of the electronics?
Hi Tamra,
Every thing in the rear is sandwiched in the rear fire wall.
Everything in the front is under the dash. I have about 300 splices in my harness. I made each one with adhesive lined heat shrink.
With Michael driving it to school a lot, it's been out in the rain a number of times.
Our steering column is looking rusty ugly. Going to and hit it with some spray paint.
On one of our track days about a month ago, it was raining off and on all day. We stayed out there while all the Z06s with slicks went home.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54242&d=1464056802

[Bob_n_Cincy]

If I switch to a catless up-pipe. Do I need to get retuned?
Bob

[mikeb75]

I can't remember if a retune was required...

I know that there was a temp probe in the catted up-pipe that was removed/bypassed when installing cat less and that will throw a CEL unless a resistor is added. The lower back pressure should only improve turbo spool(?), I don't think it altered it enough to require changing the boost controller parameters or fuel tables - but I'm going to look for the Cobb stage 1 notes to confirm.

FWIW, STIs didn't have a cat in the up-pipe and we used to look for take-offs as a cheap replacement for the catted WRX ones.

[STiPWRD]

I agree with Mike, you'll notice better spool but could probably get by without a retune. Either way, just keep an eye on the gauges to make sure nothing seems out of wack.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Today I working on suspension AGAIN.
I've made a lot of suspension modifications for multiple reasons.
I have introduced some bump steer into my front end.
Is the goal to have ZERO toe angle change from full droop to full compression?
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, the Baer bump steer kit from Summit is #BAE-3851001

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, the Baer bump steer kit from Summit is #BAE-3851001

Thanks Mitch,
From our testing tonight, it looks like we need about 3/4" longer tie rod stud, than OEM stud.
I hope that kit will do that, so we don't have to drill out the our spindles like the guy's running R ride height.
We started the day at +/- 0.560" toe between 1" droop and 2" bump. We were +/- 0.070" toe testing by raising the steering rack 3/4. So we had an 8x improvement.
We will try and fine tune it once we get the Baer kit installed.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

You mentioned the early chassis have the rack offset an inch, are you planning to square it up while you are there?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

You mentioned the early chassis have the rack offset an inch, are you planning to square it up while you are there?

Hi Mitch,
I added this spacer ,that Craig made, to the passenger end of the rack. It puts the rack pivots the same distance from the center of the car when the rack is at center of travel.
Bob

54433

[metros]

One more short video from our Great NCM Weekend.


https://youtu.be/xVEqS3Gs9SM

Looks like a fun track with a lot of elevation changes.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

As a result of doing track days this year, as opposes to autocross last year, we are going at higher speeds.
The car was nervous at high speeds and has some snap oversteer.
Changes this time:
600 to 500 rear springs.
2.5 to 4.5 degrees castor.
-0.5 to -2.0 camber front plus 1 degree per inch of travel camber gain.
-0.5 to -2.5 camber rear. ( never measured the camber gain in the rear)
Added BEAR bump steer kit.
The included washers with the kit were not enough. I had to add a couple of washers for a total of 0.952 spacers.
I also added a safety washer to the bottom.
We will be testing tomorrow at Grissom AFB.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54579&d=1465077338

[Tamra]

I think those changes should help a lot. Good luck tomorrow and report back!

What is your rear toe set to? That can cause a lot of issues too.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I think those changes should help a lot. Good luck tomorrow and report back!

What is your rear toe set to? That can cause a lot of issues too.
front is 1/8" out and rear is 3/16" in.

I suspect our big problem was bump steer. We were going from 1/8"out to 1.5" in during 2" bump.
So during a left turn, the car would roll right causing the front right to dig in and throw the back end around.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, I will bet the car will be MUCH happier, have fun tomorrow.

[Hindsight]

Good luck and let us know.

I just noticed the aftermarket wheel speed sensor you have there... what's that for?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Good luck and let us know.

I just noticed the aftermarket wheel speed sensor you have there... what's that for?

Speedometer. We are using a 2012 transmission that doesn't have one. 5 pulse per rev on 24" tire is perfect.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=236077&viewfull=1#post236077
Bob

[lance corsi]

I think I'd try either 0 toe in for the front or else up to 1\8" toe in. Toe out is very twitchy. Suit yourself.

[Tamra]

Sounds like you are on the right track, Bob! Rear toe in of 3/16" is good. I bet your issue is bump steer like you are thinking, so hopefully that fixes it. We run toe out up front too since it sharpens up the front responsiveness, but too much can make it twitchy like Lance said.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

As a result of doing track days this year, as opposes to autocross last year, we are going at higher speeds.
The car was nervous at high speeds and has some snap oversteer.
Changes this time:
600 to 500 rear springs.
2.5 to 4.5 degrees castor.
-0.5 to -2.0 camber front plus 1 degree per inch of travel camber gain.
-0.5 to -2.5 camber rear. ( never measured the camber gain in the rear)
Added BEAR bump steer kit.
The included washers with the kit were not enough. I had to add a couple of washers for a total of 0.952 spacers.
I also added a safety washer to the bottom.
We will be testing tomorrow at Grissom AFB.
Bob


Our big swing at suspension change ended up being a foul ball.
Biggest problem was the large camber changes caused the tire to run on inside edges.
Braking sucked as front tires were only using 2/3rds of tire.
Oversteer was difficult to control. Overall we were not happy with this setup.
Michael and I a both hurting and sore tonight. The car was beating us up.

We tried to use gopro mounts on an galaxy S7. Another fail. The heavier S7 was vibrating all over the place. Also the camera position was bad as the it need to be about 6" lower.
Bob


https://youtu.be/hEzZTINaKWg

[lance corsi]

Large camber changes cannot be escaped with short a arms.

[Tamra]

Our big swing at suspension change ended up being a foul ball.
Biggest problem was the large camber changes caused the tire to run on inside edges.
Braking sucked as front tires were only using 2/3rds of tire.
Oversteer was difficult to control. Overall we were not happy with this setup.
Michael and I a both hurting and sore tonight. The car was beating us up.

We tried to use gopro mounts on an galaxy S7. Another fail. The heavier S7 was vibrating all over the place. Also the camera position was bad as the it need to be about 6" lower.
Bob


https://youtu.be/hEzZTINaKWg

Hey Bob,

Did you happen to mark the tires to see where they are rolling over to (to see how much of the tire you are using in turns)? The camber up front will definitely hurt braking grip. However, in corners, you should be going from using 2/3'ds of a tire to 100% if your camber is correct, which should result in maximum grip. We are running -3.5 in the rear I believe, and found that we were wearing the tires evenly at autocross. A bigger handling difference for us came from adjusting rake - we lowered the rear ride height a touch and the car became much more manageable. When you replaced the springs, could you have changed the rear ride height by any chance?

Did you happen to keep an eye on tire pressures? Some cars are very sensitive to tire pressure changes. I know in a track session you can't check/adjust them as frequently like in autocross, but it may be a good thing to keep an eye on in case you need to adjust your starting pressures/ pressure bias. Sometimes even 1 or 2 psi can make a big difference. Maybe some other track day guys have more feedback.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Bob,

Did you happen to mark the tires to see where they are rolling over to (to see how much of the tire you are using in turns)? The camber up front will definitely hurt braking grip. However, in corners, you should be going from using 2/3'ds of a tire to 100% if your camber is correct, which should result in maximum grip. We are running -3.5 in the rear I believe, and found that we were wearing the tires evenly at autocross. A bigger handling difference for us came from adjusting rake - we lowered the rear ride height a touch and the car became much more manageable. When you replaced the springs, could you have changed the rear ride height by any chance?

Did you happen to keep an eye on tire pressures? Some cars are very sensitive to tire pressure changes. I know in a track session you can't check/adjust them as frequently like in autocross, but it may be a good thing to keep an eye on in case you need to adjust your starting pressures/ pressure bias. Sometimes even 1 or 2 psi can make a big difference. Maybe some other track day guys have more feedback.


Hi Tamra,
We just went too big on our camber changes. Our tire wear was perfect before on the set up we were running for the last 6 months. Took a set of R888 down to slicks with no cord showing.
We did not have our tires chalked at the beginning of the day. But I did have the tires clean. We were 1" to 1.5" from the arrows.

Our static camber setting will be less than most because we have other changes that increased our camber gain and have less body roll.

After changing springs we did set our ride height back to 4.5 with 600 lbs payload in the car.

Our tire pressures started at 18f/19r. With a 2 person car and a small crowd. There wasn't any time to do much between runs. Feeling our tires between runs, they were maybe 120F. Our tire recommended temperature is 180f.

New plan is to stay with the new Caster and bump steer setting an drop the camber setting to 1.0f and 1.0R and try again next weekend somewhere.

Then a week from today we will do a track night at Putnam.

http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/1983182-track-night-2016-indiana-june-13

Bob

[Tamra]

Hi Tamra,
Our static camber setting will we less than most because we have other changes that increased our camber gain and have less body roll.


If your suspension geometry changes made it so you have increased camber gain, then I think you're right and reducing your camber would be a good idea.

Have you calculated how much more camber gain you have now relative to the stock setup? For example, with us running -3.5 static in the rear with the same spring rate as you, do our car's camber curves cross each other at some point through travel (ie do you end up with more negative camber during max normal compression than we do, despite us starting with more)?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

If your suspension geometry changes made it so you have increased camber gain, then I think you're right and reducing your camber would be a good idea.

Have you calculated how much more camber gain you have now relative to the stock setup? For example, with us running -3.5 static in the rear with the same spring rate as you, do our car's camber curves cross each other at some point through travel (ie do you end up with more negative camber during max normal compression than we do, despite us starting with more)?

I haven't looked a the rear in a long time.

The front is now giving us about 1 degree per inch of upward tire travel.
I don't remember what it was before.

Maybe I should do an excel sheet to see what is going on.

Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is my estimated miles on our 818.
Street/Road miles: 3000 Mostly drives through country and Michaels to/from high school.
Autocross Miles: 300 miles on 500 runs. Very hard miles, Full gas -- full brake-- 1.2 G turns repeat about 25 times per one minute run.
Track Miles: 800 miles, 4 track days with 3 hours on track each day. About 40-80 in turns and 80-120 on straights.
Trailer miles: about 3000 to and from autocross and track events.

Cost: 2.5 years spending a lot of time with my son: PRICELESS

Talking about trailer miles. This was our tow vehicle for the last few years:

54923

Time to add a second TOW vehicle. 2005 High mileage Suburban Z71 4WD (250K)

54924

Loaded up heading to another track day at Putnam Park Raceway tomorrow. Over by Mechie3's house.

Michael is already telling me that the Suburban is his.
Bob

[Hindsight]

That's an awesome tow vehicle Bob. I have no tow vehicle so am going to be very nervous when taking my 818 to the drag strip and road race courses. I could always rent a uhaul pickup and car trailer but that can get expensive.

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, How did the car work at Putnam Park with the revised set up?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, How did the car work at Putnam Park with the revised set up?
"Track night in America" is tonight. I let you know tomorrow.

Her is what we are testing:
cold tire Pressure: 18F/19R
front springs: 350
front ride height: 5"
front caster: 4.5 deg
front camber @ RH: -1.0 deg
bump steer : 0"
front toe : 0
rear springs: 500
rear ride height 5"
rear roll steer 0
rear camber @ RH -1.5 deg
rear toe: 3/16 in

Bob

[lance corsi]

Sounds like that setup should work real well. Good luck!

[Mitch Wright]

Have a blast, should be more comfortable for sure,

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Today we went to a SCCA Track night at Putnam park.
Finally we got our handling issues under control.
With no aero, our 818 was very balances, braking was good, tire wear looked even.
Very happy with the results today.

55029 55030


Also, this was our first track event with the temperature around 90. Our fans didn't com on until we were off track for a few minutes. So our nose mounted radiator is working out.

We did have some issue with our data logger and videos. In this video the movie is not synced with the g force, GPS and speed data.

We are in the novice group which is passing with "point by" only in the designated zones.
Michael only gave one point by in over an hour on track. That was only to get to a place on the track with no traffic so he could open it up.


https://youtu.be/qyTCXsdPObE

Bob

[Hindsight]

Awesome Bob! So cool to watch him reel in and pass cars that cost several times as much as the 818.

[Mitch Wright]

Great news congrats, I can tell by Michaels hands the car is much better.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looks like we lost our gas cap.
Is FFR still replacing these.
55045

I might use that hole for the dipstick.
Bob

[GUNS]

Looks like we lost our gas cap.
Is FFR still replacing these.
55045

They should. They replaced mine not that long ago.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good job Michael & Bob! Fun track isn't it :) I've run Putnam several times and would liked to have joined you for Track Night in America but alas the organizers do not approve of the FFR roadster's roll bars...:confused:

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Good job Michael & Bob! Fun track isn't it :) I've run Putnam several times and would liked to have joined you for Track Night in America but alas the organizers do not approve of the FFR roadster's roll bars...:confused:

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Yes, it is a fun track.
We are scheduled to do a 2 day Track Day there on June 25-26 with 10/10th Motorsports. So I'm not going to make it to the London Cobra show to see you get your award. Congratulations.

We put a bigger roll bar on our 818S for our own safety. Track Night in America wasn't enforcing roll bar rules as you can tell by the S2000 that was in front of us in grid.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55062&d=1466005095

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Look what was parked in front of my employer's work shop today.

Divergent 3D Super Car
700 H.P
1400 LBS
0-60 2 seconds
3D printed aluminum body


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[UnhipPopano]

I like the concept and would like to see it applied to custom parts. As far as the specs go, "and blazingly fast (zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds)."

[Jeff Kleiner]

... Track Night in America wasn't enforcing roll bar rules as you can tell by the S2000 that was in front of us in grid.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55062&d=1466005095

Actually Bob TNIA says that is OK---guess they figure that the S2K or Miata windshield frames will keep the cars off your head but my pair of 2" by .120 DOM steel bars won't. Go figure...

I've run Putnam with 10/10ths. They have a great program, some really good instructors and get you loads of track time. Have fun!

Jeff

[brian b 36]

bob I have a gas cap if you need one pm me with an address brian

[Bob_n_Cincy]

bob I have a gas cap if you need one pm me with an address brian

Thanks Brian,
Once Tony gets back from the Power tour. I will see if he's got one for me. If not I'll take you up on your offer.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21217-Experience-the-Power-Tour-with-me-and-Black-Mamba&p=240769&viewfull=1#post240769

[brian b 36]

ok I have 2 extra new ones I got the new tanks and they both came with gas caps

[snowphun]

Look what was parked in front of my employer's work shop today.

Divergent 3D Super Car
700 H.P
1400 LBS
0-60 2 seconds
3D printed aluminum body



Good grief! How long till 3d printing comes to FFR products?

[Hindsight]

Good grief! How long till 3d printing comes to FFR products?

I think the headlight buckets are 3D printed.... not positive though.

[Mechie3]

I think the headlight bucket prototypes were 3D printed, but the final ones certainly look to be vacuum formed.

[UnhipPopano]

Somewhere on the internet [http://www.gcreate.com/#!factory-five-racing/ccwc] is the story on FF purchase of the 3D printer. The article stated that for showing the original car they printed the first set of lights. The article did not identify how big a part their 3DP can form, but I am under the impression it is larger than the Head Light Buckets. and smaller than the fender it attaches to.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I think the headlight bucket prototypes were 3D printed, but the final ones certainly look to be vacuum formed.

I believe, they printed out the mold for the thermal form buckets.

I have fiberglass and thermal formed buckets for the original headlights. They fit each other like a glove.
I concluded that they are using fiberglass or printed parts to create the thermal formed parts.
Bob

[lance corsi]

I got my headlight buckets a couple months ago and finally took a good close look at them. They don't fit the contour of the fender worth a darn. Does anyone know what type adhesive to use to attach them to the fenders? I'm going to do a little grinding on them to close the gaps but there just isn't enough thickness there to close the worst areas and still have a flange to glue to.

[UnhipPopano]

There is a thread where this was discusses at length. There are a couple of options, but it is not likely that Glue alone will work.

[Mechie3]

I'm going to try and use pem studs and nuts. The edge of the new style buckets is odd in that they rounded it. I would have made it a flat to give more contact area.

[UnhipPopano]

I was wondering the same thing. What advantage, other than rigidity (Could have been done in a different way), does the rounded edge have?

[metros]

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that made no sense. Considering that the light needs to be sealed to prevent condensation, I can't think of a single reason that the edges need to be curved.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I were out at Putnam Park for a track weekend. We were have having a great weekend. At the start of one of our sessions today. Michael noticed a noise out of the engine during acceleration. He then took the rest of the lap easy.
You can hear it very well as he accelerates out of the pits. We pack up the car and brought it home.
You can also here real well at the 1:16 mark


What do you think is causing this noise?

EDIT: Found loose exhaust at manifold up-pipe junction.

Bob


https://youtu.be/B4raTOxN6XE

[Bob_n_Cincy]

For your 818 viewing pleasure, here is Michael in a full session.
195 WHP and no aero
We now have the car very balanced.
Temperature this weekend was in the 90's, No heat issues.
Bob




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuVTK8PtjRA

[Mitch Wright]

Very nice Bob, can see Michael improving every time out. The car looks a ton better, doesn't look nervous anymore.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Very nice Bob, can see Michael improving every time out. The car looks a ton better, doesn't look nervous anymore.

Thanks Mitch,
Now if we're to hot in a corner, the back and front slide out together, giving me a lot more confidence.
Michael went from over-steer correcting 3-4 times a corner (very good practice) to maybe once or twice a lap.
We're getting a little bit rear wheel lock up coming into PP corner 7 which is not a big deal.
Back at the pits, all the tires temps were between 152 and 158 with mid 90s ambient.
We've had two track days in a row being happy with our setup, not going to change anything right now.
The only heat issue is the sun beating down on us while waiting for our turn on the track. I need an umbrella person.

We are up to 18 hours of hot laps which is 1300-1500 track miles so far this year. Brakes are at 80% and we are on our second set of tires.
On our 4th session of the days and only 5 gallons gas of our 13 left, we are getting some blips of starvation in the long sweepers. Since we are street legal, running out for gas at lunch is easy.

Maybe we will see you at NCM in the next 2 weeks.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Great I hope you guys can make down.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Just a couple of pictures of us driving around the golf coarse at speed this past weekend.

55479 55480 55481

Wayne Carini in the passenger seat. (look alike)

There was another nice looking car out on the track with us. (slower)

55482

[Frank818]

When we check the pix in slideshow mode and read after, when it flips from the 3rd to the 4th pic it's amazing to see how fast you changed the body on the 818. loll

Bob, looking at your lower right exhaust tip, do you get any exhaust smell in the cockpit while driving?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, looking at your lower right exhaust tip, do you get any exhaust smell in the cockpit while driving?

No exhaust smell when moving.

Get a little when stopped as it blows back into the engine bay. Then we have big cut outs in our humps for the roll bar that the exhaust smell comes out the top. We need to close up those slots.

We went back and did a much better job sealing the cockpit. The engine bay is higher pressure than the cockpit. so hot air was coming in every egress of wire, hose, or pipe to the cockpit.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael made a new camera mount to get a better video.
I like how the camera keeps the horizon steady but you can see the car movement.
Do you think it needs to be closer or further from the windshield?
Higher or lower?
I hope to add data log info across the bottom of the screen.
Also I want to add an external mic or foam cover to quiet the wind noise.
Let me know what you think.

Don't pay attention to the driver. It was our slow rookie driver at the wheel.

Click the Youtube button on the video so you can watch it in full screen HD mode.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFypZcsFU4

Bob

[Frank818]

Closer to the winshield for me Bob.
Tnx on the smell explanataion!

[mikeb75]

I like the camera position. I'd suggest moving it a bit more to the passenger side, but the height seems good -it conveys a proper sense of speed.

There is a bit of camera shake at speed, don't know if you can do anything about that. I've found that in-camera stabilization gives strange motion artifacts at higher speeds. Possibly post-processing could fix it (while you are adding the data overlay), but again AFAIK, the stabilization algorithms reduce the video resolution a bit and again, can add strange motion artifacts...

anyway, really glad to see you and your son putting the track miles on the car! thanks for sharing the videos.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I like the camera position. I'd suggest moving it a bit more to the passenger side, but the height seems good -it conveys a proper sense of speed.

There is a bit of camera shake at speed, don't know if you can do anything about that. I've found that in-camera stabilization gives strange motion artifacts at higher speeds. Possibly post-processing could fix it (while you are adding the data overlay), but again AFAIK, the stabilization algorithms reduce the video resolution a bit and again, can add strange motion artifacts...

anyway, really glad to see you and your son putting the track miles on the car! thanks for sharing the videos.

Thanks Mike,
I will try some laps with the stabilization turned off next track day. On maybe some slow laps around the neighborhood.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

quick question for the engine tuner guys.
I'm running stock tune. If I switch to a catless up-pipe, do I need to retune?
Bob

[mikeb75]

quick answer: not really. The STI's came without catted up-pipes and WRX guys switched their catted pipes for them. The only issue would be throwing a CEL from the loss of the temperature sensor in the catted up-pipe (to monitor/protect the cat).

Other than that, I don't remember any significant issues switching to a non-catted up-pipe, don't remember any significant changes to the boost or fueling tables.

[STiPWRD]

I would agree that you don't need to retune necessarily. I remember going to a catless up-pipe and noticing faster spool up so it may affect your wastegate duty cycle curve if anything. If you remove the EGT probe, a resistor will solve the CEL.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

quick answer: not really. The STI's came without catted up-pipes and WRX guys switched their catted pipes for them. The only issue would be throwing a CEL from the loss of the temperature sensor in the catted up-pipe (to monitor/protect the cat).

Other than that, I don't remember any significant issues switching to a non-catted up-pipe, don't remember any significant changes to the boost or fueling tables.


I would agree that you don't need to retune necessarily. I remember going to a catless up-pipe and noticing faster spool up so it may affect your wastegate duty cycle curve if anything. If you remove the EGT probe, a resistor will solve the CEL.

Thanks Mike and STI.
I'm ready to add a 2.2k resistor. That's easy and cheap.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

my catless up pipe came with the temp sensor bung so I just used the original

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I pulled this from the trunk Thread

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55589&d=1467346181

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55590&d=1467352670


Bob what radiator is that from. I like it and might copy it. Just create a new hard and box in a "trunk" at least I can have some tools or throw a bag up front.

'It is a Griffin 1-25201-X
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-1-25201-X

No Idea what it is out of.
I changed the inlet and outlet to the sides instead of the front or back. I removed the pressure seal in the radiator cap and ran the discharge hose to the expansion tank in the rear. "T" into the Wayne's mod hose.
Let me know if you decide to do it this way, I'll take some detailed pictures for you.
Bob

edit: In the frontal picture, I just noticed that my windshield cowl doesn't sit on the frame.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am working on a new video layout of the front camera and datalog information.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55730&d=1467608985

I have access to all the info in the ecu. Also a few external gauges.

Please give me suggestions on what all information would you like to see on the gauge view.
Thanks
Bob

[Frank818]

Hard to read the gauges at the bottom right.

How about:
Oil Temp
Oil Press
Throttle % (looks like it's there?)
Injector %
Fuel Press
Injector Angle (in case it's variable with RPM)
Total Timing (deg)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hard to read the gauges at the bottom right.
How about:
Oil Temp
Oil Press
Throttle % (looks like it's there?)
Injector %
Fuel Press
Injector Angle (in case it's variable with RPM)
Total Timing (deg)

Frank, I have 3 or 4 available inputs to the ECU.
I am thinking:
Oil Temp
Oil Press
fuel press
Post awic intake temp.

Throttle % (looks like it's there?)
Injector % (Duty Cycle)
Total Timing (deg
No problem adding these

Injector Angle (in case it's variable with RPM)
I can do injector Duty Cycle and pulse width. Not angle.

The readability will be fine.

I am not really creating anything here. I am just using three low cost or free software tools and creating my display.

video lap timer
datalogger
video overlay software.
Bob

[Frank818]

That'll be very interesting to watch.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Is my wide front tires causing this mess every weekend?

55897

55896

[Frank818]

Yes they are. :)
But you need them!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

After verifying the that the knocking noise was not detonation but was a true rod knock, it is time to swap motors.

Bad motor, 95k donor miles, about 1200 track miles, 400 autocross runs, and 1500 street miles.
56435

Empty engine bay,
56436

Replacement motor. 104k street miles.
56434

Subaru EJ257 bearing failure caught on tape.
This was the last 5 minutes of a 1/2 hour session at Putnam Park. 95 Ambient temp.
At the 2:00 minute mark I can hear some knocking on the video. At the 3:40 mark I could hear grinding sound from the engine. At 4:16 it gets really bad. Time for a new short block.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU1TR8MKV1s&feature=youtu.be

[Frank818]

You sure got a lot of spare engines in there.

Are you still using your rear rad setup? Did you fix the dead airflow issue?

BTW why didn't you shut off the engine at 2mins or at the worst, at 3:40?


How do you guys make a youtube video to show up like this, mines only show with a link...

[STiPWRD]

Subaru EJ257 bearing failure caught on tape.
I thought the forester came with the EJ255?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I thought the forester came with the EJ255?
I suspect you are correct. My knowledge is all second hand.
I was told all 04FXT were the same motor and internals as the 04STI, Only a smaller turbo.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

You sure got a lot of spare engines in there.
Are you still using your rear rad setup? Did you fix the dead airflow issue?
BTW why didn't you shut off the engine at 2mins or at the worst, at 3:40?
How do you guys make a youtube video to show up like this, mines only show with a link...

Hey Frank,
This was the motor scheduled for the 2nd 818, so now the blowm one will have to be rebuilt for that car.
Finally gave up on the rear radiator. Now running this. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=225632&viewfull=1#post225632
I didn't hear it at 2 minutes in the car, only on the video. At 3:40 I wasn't sure what the noise was.
When watching on youtube, copy the link from the browser address bar. Then paste that into the forum video insert box.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob,
have you looked into a AOS and a KB oil control valve now that you are tracking your car more than originally planned?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,
have you looked into a AOS and a KB oil control valve now that you are tracking your car more than originally planned?
I have not. I inspected the inside of my intake hoses when I took off the AWIC and they were dry.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am trying to get opinions on which accusump to use.
Please see this page:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15502-Oil-issues-Dry-Sump-Accusump-for-road-racing&p=245027&viewfull=1#post245027

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We are in the process of adding an external oil cooler and oil filter.
Since we track in the summer and drive the car in the winter months, we decided to leave the OEM oil warmer in place. Mounted on top of that is a Canton adaptor used to connect hoses to the remote filter and cooler.
Space is very cramped. We had to rotate the warmer. Cut, trim, and hammer the exhaust heat shields. Then some creative hose ends to get the hoses out from under the engine.
Bob

57297

57298

57299

[Hindsight]

Where are you planning on mounting the external cooler and will you have a fan on it?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Where are you planning on mounting the external cooler and will you have a fan on it?
We are going to put the cooler in the left side scoop. The oil filter will mount to the ZDB AWIC bracket. we are feeding the oil pressure and temperature into our data log.
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, for future oil cooler needs might think about a water to oil cooler in the coolant hose back to the radiator. Very compact easy to mount and have found them effective on past projects.

[Hindsight]

Cool, looking forward to pics of that setup. Were you getting high oil temps on the track?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, for future oil cooler needs might think about a water to oil cooler in the coolant hose back to the radiator. Very compact easy to mount and have found them effective on past projects.
Hi Mitch,
My SBC in my boat uses a oil to lake water cooler. works very well.
Marine application may even be more severe than racing. We often are WOT for 1/2 hour straight.

My thought was that 190 degree coolant wasn't going to cool 210 degree oil very much.
I have a very cool awic loop. But I didn't want to touch that.
I real don't want to add third loop.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Cool, looking forward to pics of that setup. Were you getting high oil temps on the track?

When we lost our engine bearings, we were on the track.
We did not have gauges or data log on oil pressure or oil temp. So we are speculating that oil got to hot.
We were data logging ECU stuff. It coolant stayed between 190f and 203f during the 1/2 hour session. The maf/ait air intake temp was 94F to 98F.
Bob

[DSR-3]

My thought was that 190 degree coolant wasn't going to cool 210 degree oil very much. -
When we lost our engine bearings, we were on the track.
We did not have gauges or data log on oil pressure or oil temp. So we are speculating that oil got to hot.
We were data logging ECU stuff. It coolant stayed between 190f and 203f during the 1/2 hour session. The maf/ait air intake temp was 94F to 98F.
Bob

Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

I didn't find any Setrab oil to water type.

I am looking at a Mercruiser unit used on a 502 big block engine.
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/807372t-cooler-oil

Genuine Mercruiser is $375, knock offs made in USA are $135.

Would you put this in the hose going to the radiator or from the radiator?
Bob

[JeromeS13]

I didn't find any Setrab oil to water type.

I am looking at a Mercruiser unit used on a 502 big block engine.
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/807372t-cooler-oil

Genuine Mercruiser is $375, knock offs made in USA are $135.

Would you put this in the hose going to the radiator or from the radiator?
Bob

I would plumb it from the lower radiator hose (cold side). Those temps should be much, much lower than the upper (hot) side.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I would plumb it from the lower radiator hose (cold side). Those temps should be much, much lower than the upper (hot) side.
What is the highest temp number I should see coming out of the radiator?

We are taking a week off of working on the 818 to play with one of our other toys. 350CI 260PHP
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57609&d=1471399288

first time out this summer.
Bob

[Frank818]

We are taking a week off of working on the 818 to play with one of our other toys. 350CI 260PHP

The truck, yes! :)

[JeromeS13]

What is the highest temp number I should see coming out of the radiator?

Honestly, I have no idea. The ECU only sees the coolant temp at the hottest part of the motor (right before going INTO the radiator). I've never looked into seeing if anyone has added a sensor post-radiator.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Honestly, I have no idea. The ECU only sees the coolant temp at the hottest part of the motor (right before going INTO the radiator). I've never looked into seeing if anyone has added a sensor post-radiator.
I think having an temp sensor on rad output is best way to determine if we have sufficient cooling system.

Frank 260 php Is prop horse power.

[lance corsi]

Bob, I've never heard of boat horsepower being expressed as php. Did you take your boat to a boat dyno? Lol!

[UnhipPopano]

See page 40 => http://oa.upm.es/14340/2/Documentacion/7_C_Maquinas/61055638-Caterpillar-Marine-Analyst-Hand-Book.pdf

Another nautical term that is used is Shaft HP.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, I've never heard of boat horsepower being expressed as php. Did you take your boat to a boat dyno? Lol!

57634

I do know that at full throttle, it uses more than a gallon be minute at 50 mph.
I made up prop HP. Before this project I've never heard of WHP.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, for future oil cooler needs might think about a water to oil cooler in the coolant hose back to the radiator. Very compact easy to mount and have found them effective on past projects.


Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

Thanks Mitch and DSR-3
I took your advice and got a water to oil heat exchanger.
I also got a oil pressure and oil temp sensor working with my data logger. (tgv delete inputs)
While doing that, I also moved my AIT sensor to post awic cooler.
Bob

57670 57671

[Frank818]

Bob, are you the one who blew up a couple of LED turn/reverse signal bulbs? I recall reading someone who couldn't find how to wire the positive and negative cuz it's not labeled and he blew a couple up.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, are you the one who blew up a couple of LED turn/reverse signal bulbs? I recall reading someone who couldn't find how to wire the positive and negative cuz it's not labeled and he blew a couple up.

That was probably me. (good memory)
Right now I'm running incandescent bulbs, with a standard pattern. (clear bulb is reverse only)
I will switch my brake/tail bulbs to LED for safety. In the video you can see how much faster the high center bulb is.
Bob

https://youtu.be/SOJUZ8jr6MI

[Frank818]

Yeah, that 3rd brake light really is faster to light up.

Do you know what you did to blow those FFR LED bulbs?
I'm asking cuz I tested both bulbs on a shelf, working fine, then I hook up the wires and lenses, test them on the car and one has blown reverse chips. I'm sure about that cuz I swapped lenses and connectors and always the same not working and the other one always working. I was wondering what you did to blow them up. They seem very sensitive to something I don't know.

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, off topic but was thinking about you guys. Has Michael started collage?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, off topic but was thinking about you guys. Has Michael started collage?
Mike will be going to school months 4,5 6,10,11,12 then co-op 1,2,3 7,8,9. for the next 4 years. A least that is the plan.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yeah, that 3rd brake light really is faster to light up.

Do you know what you did to blow those FFR LED bulbs?
I'm asking cuz I tested both bulbs on a shelf, working fine, then I hook up the wires and lenses, test them on the car and one has blown reverse chips. I'm sure about that cuz I swapped lenses and connectors and always the same not working and the other one always working. I was wondering what you did to blow them up. They seem very sensitive to something I don't know.
Reverse polarity will blow them in an instant. Some bulbs are diode protected from reverse polarity. These were not.
Bob

[Frank818]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...

You probably had them connected like this:

Car ---------------------- bulb
turn ------------------------ turn
reverse--------------------- ground
ground--------------------- reverse

[STiPWRD]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...
Frank, is your hazard switch plugged in? If not, some of the reverse lights may not get power. I can't remember if you rewired everything or are using the subaru harness.

[Frank818]

Swapping the ground and reverse would also blow up the turn if it'd blow up the reverse, as it's a common ground.
But after all that's ok cuz a replacement LED bulb can be found for cheap so I guess it's less costly to buy a replacement than spend hours trying to figure out. loll It just tells me that they seem sensitive when you start working with them.

No Subaru harness at all. Independent Infinity Box system which controls hazards by the computer (a virtual button on my tablet and phones). They work perfectly btw.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I listened to some of the suggestion on here and decided to go with the liquid/liquid oil cooler and the remote oil filter.
This first picture is the is the oil filter mount to the post behind the driver.
The mounting plate has 4 ports. I used them for oil in, oil out, oil pressure sensor and oil temperature sensor.
The 2 sensors are wired into my ECU for logging and Dash board display.

57968

At the bottom of the above picture you can see the liguid/liquid heat exchanger. I also added a sensor to measure the coolant temperature out of the radiator. The cold side of the radiator is cooling the oil before it goes back into the engine. Here is a picture of the heat exchanger form the bottom side of the engine.

57969

I used a canton block to get the oil out of the block. Here is another picture form the underside of the engine.

57970

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I are going to do a dry sump system.
We are going to connect the tank directly to the bottom of the oil pump.
Does any one know if somebody makes an oil pick up tube block off plate???
Thanks
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I posted this on the818R forum, but also wanted on my build thread.

Below is the sketch of my new oiling system after losing my engine last month.

Can anyone recommend an inline vacuum regulator/relief valve?
Thanks
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58466&d=1473605185

[Aero STI]

That diagram makes the system look elegant. I would like to see the complete parts list at some point.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Today, Michael and I did our first start on our second engine.
The car now has remote oil filter and oil cooling.
Better data logging capability and dash display.

Soon to be added, Equal length headers and catless up-pipe.
Soon to be added: Dry sump system.

I didn't take a video, but here is a screen shot off the dash display.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58486&d=1473703234

My oil pressure is red because it was zero at start up. right now my pressure sensor is at the filter. I should probably move it to the rear galley port.
I aslo just noticed the my 2 year old ATV battery dropped to 7.7 volts during starting. Probably time to replace it.
Bob

[STiPWRD]

Bob, could you please post how you modified the logger definitions file to read the oil pressure sensor? I think I'm using the same approach and sensor you are.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, could you please post how you modified the logger definitions file to read the oil pressure sensor? I think I'm using the same approach and sensor you are.
STiPWARD,
I take it that you are using rom raider as your logger.
I'm using BTSSM to created a new field for oil temp and oil pressure.
Then assigned the TGV addresses to those fields. 0x00033 and 0x00034 if I remember correctly.
For pressure the table was simple 0.5v=0psi and 4.5v=100 psi.
Temperature was a lot more complicated table as the feedback wasn't linear.
PM me and we can do an online meeting to discuss in depth.
Bob

[Frank818]

Throttle pedal 8%? Come on Bob, step on it! lollll

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I were on our way home from the golf coarse tonight (I won). We saw and interesting car we had to stop and take some pictures.
58602 58603 58604

First one to tell us about this car without using the internet will earn the title: BKA
BMW King Aficionado

[flynntuna]

BMW Z8. Can't say what year.

[wleehendrick]

Yup, Z8; the first I've seen with a hardtop on. There are a couple in my area. Absolutely stunning, classic roadster lines with the top down:

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-Z8_2001_1280x960_wallpaper_03.jpg

It's hard to believe that the same designer, Chris Bangle, is also responsible for the monstrosity that is the 7-series "bangle-butt" (http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/21/bangle-butt/):

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW_745i-03_1024-750x500.jpg

[RM1SepEx]

Why couldn't they have made the Z3 look like this vs a cartoon car?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It's hard to believe that the same designer, Chris Bangle, is also responsible for the monstrosity that is the 7-series

I was reading that Henrik Fisker was the designer.
Here is the 2011 Fisker Karma Hybrid.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58651&d=1474056963

[Mechie3]

There used to be a silver Z8 parked in the circle in downtown indy. Hasn't been there since the owner was put in prison in 2012 for 50 years for defrauding people of $216million. He also had a bugatti he parked downtown. I mean, I'd have tons of cool cars if I had $216 million of other peoples money to spend too!

[wleehendrick]

I was reading that Henrik Fisker was the designer.
Here is the 2011 Fisker Karma Hybrid.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58651&d=1474056963

I've always loved Henrick Fisker's work; he was the exterior designer on the Z8, but Bangle was stated as the lead. Given Bangle's other work, yeah, I think Fisker probably had more to do with how good the Z8 looks.

[ben1272]

I am not a fan of Bangle's work. I heard there is a (derogatory?) term for a car that has had its trunk stretch upwards (as was the fad not long ago)......its been 'bangled'.


I've always loved Henrick Fisker's work; he was the exterior designer on the Z8, but Bangle was stated as the lead. Given Bangle's other work, yeah, I think Fisker probably had more to do with how good the Z8 looks.