Brando's Newbie 818R Build Thread [Archive] - Page 3

Brando

06-15-2014, 11:05 PM

Thankfully I managed to position myself in the relationship where my diaper duty is minimal.

It is glorious to dress light when it's 100 degrees and everyone else in in shorts. If you get the opportunity I highly recommend it. Some wear gloves, I think i even saw one set of racing shoes. Were you going to jump right into a SCCA event without running some autoX or TT? If you went to a fun day event like this and wore a racing suit you would be the only one and you get your picture taken frequently, for the wrong reasons hehe.

I am planning getting into SCCA next year. I have plenty of time to watch the pros do it on here and will follow their lead. I still plan on installing fire suppression, seat with halo, HANS device, race fuel cell, 15' trailer (fits in garage), fire-suit, gloves, shoes and many more hours behind the wheel. Goal is to have the car ready for the SCCA by 2015 but race the heck out it until then.

Chad I was using the roll bar gopro mount with the high wind back. It's so odd how crappy it made my car sound. Slappy valves. I will give the mount you linked a try, thanks.

This is probably overkill but here is some outside footage of the Red group. The first pass yields good perspective how hard the car pulls on the masses.

http://youtu.be/OzqGgDRSrbk

Got Turbo?
I am in the market for a good turbo. I'm not sure if its worth it to sport for a ball bearing unit over a journal bearing. They are so expensive. I don't need super high boost I just want a rock solid turbo with quick spooling. Blouch, MHI, godspeed? If you feel there is a turbo that is superior please do share

Doowop

06-16-2014, 01:22 AM

sorry man, I'm all about safety, I feel naked without my race gear and you better get used to it as the real races will require it. It's not because it's an open track day that you can't get in a pretty bad crash. Actually, I would say you have more chances to get into a crash those days as most of the people don't know how to drive. Which actually brings up a point that we will be needing arm restraints for this car. I don't do autocross, I've done it once, and can't stand it. Too slow, too short, and too much sitting around in a parking lot, feels like what drag racing would feel like, where you get 10 minutes of seat time in a day and wait around the rest of the time. I've only done wtw scca racing, and open track days. I'll probably be doing wtw racing with nasa with this car.
Any over heating issues? What about brakes?

man, that track is in the desert!! :)

apexanimal

06-16-2014, 08:33 AM

give blouch a call and discuss what you want out of the car and they'll give you a recommendation...

C.Plavan

06-16-2014, 09:00 AM

I use the mount with the open back on the GoPro. (better sound). But I have a somewhat enclosed racer (No side windows however). I would experiment with the different backs. I think I used scotch tape over mic area at one point and that improved the wind noise.

Quick example of sound- GoPro Hero 3- I/O Port mount. I hope I can get the GoPro to sound close to this in the 818R.

http://youtu.be/hw9Erbboqrk

Brando

06-16-2014, 09:19 AM

Yup most tracks are in BFE. AutoX is 10 minutes from my house. I can just drive myself there in my 818 and home for lunch if I choose. Sure there is waiting and low time behind the wheel and I feel you about the pain points. But if i want to bring anyone my little heart desires for a ride along with me I can. I think there is merit to having a spot to comfortably push the car way beyond its limitations and see what happens without the risk of what you might hit off a track. No doubt track racing is more fun but I feel there is a spot for AutoX in my world.

I have been to a number of SCCA events and I see just as many people running their cars off the track because they all think they are Joe pro. People passing way more aggressively. People all trailer their cars in and don't have the need to drive them home at the end of the day.

I didn't have any notable issue with heat soak or overheating. Brakes didn't fade but I never ran more than 15 consecutive minutes. I was mashing the brakes pretty hard the last run and they were still biting.

Chad that footage sounds really good. You drive hard, can't wait to see what you do with the 818. Even more so I look forward to running a few events with you. I will be the guy under dressed. XD

C.Plavan

06-16-2014, 09:35 AM

Sounds good. I'll be racing with NASA.

Just wait, you are just starting the "Slippery Slope"...... Just a matter of time and you will have all the goodies that come with racing.

D Clary

06-16-2014, 10:06 AM

I am with you on the autox there is a lot more down time but the only risk if you go beyond the limits is embarrassment and I can deal with that. Track days are much more fun, but more travel and money. My closest track is Sonoma, which is no place to stretch the limit and Thunderhill about 3 hours towing. Last rack day at Sonoma was 350.00 plus 90.00 for fuel. Thunderhill maybe 100.00 more for fuel. Autox 30.00, Would still wear a hans even if I didn't suit up.

Brando

06-17-2014, 03:53 PM

I took the first turbo I had fail which had a rubbing issue on the housing cold side. Turns out it just wasn't seated correctly from the get go which caused the compressor wheel nut to back out. In fact earlier in my thread I commented how I was able to push the compressor wheel into the housing and force it to rub before I ever ran it. I brought this up to the guy who sold it to me, and he “fixed it”....WITH A MALLET!
Apparently the blunt force hammer didn't pull through and that's why it ended up rubbing after a few hours of use. The good news is that 2 new journal bearing and a reseat fixed it right up. The compressor wheel passed the balancing machine test and the housing was ground smooth. Now I get the good turbo back in the car and the $250 POS turbo goes in the trash, after an assessment of the failure point. I still haven’t found out what happened to the cheap turbo as its still in the car.
I was dreading the price tag of a new turbo so this invoice made me smile. Thank you turbo city! $63 is in my budget.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/invoice-for-turbo_zps07865b29.jpg

I got the pictures back from the day of racing. Pretty good shots.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Gold-BrakingZone-FAB_8585-061414_zpsf2987e3e.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Red-Turn9-FAB_9567-061414_zps6a3269bb.jpg

[http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Gold-Turn1-FAB_8655-061414_zps4be10e00.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Red-Turn10-FAB_9820-061414_zps47400edd.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Gold-BrakingZone-FAB_8550-061414_zps3ff62a49.jpg

metalmaker12

06-17-2014, 03:58 PM

Nice!!!

Scargo

06-17-2014, 05:02 PM

When these shots were taken, how was the car handling? I hate to critique it from the pictures. What is your impression when you look at the pictures? What could be improved?

Brando

06-17-2014, 05:35 PM

I felt the car was handling quite well, predictable and fast. The only things I see from the pictures is the front splitter is too high, splitter points up, there is high clearance and there was a bit of body roll. It didn't feel like it from in the car. What could be improved? Probably a LSD because I was getting a bit of wheel spin on the inside tire coming out of a few turns. Mastering the track would be a good move too, there was a ton of time I could still cut out of it still. 3 runs didn't get me there.
What do you notice that I should be aware of?

Mechie3

06-17-2014, 06:12 PM

The fourth pic makes the car look tiny!

Aero STI

06-17-2014, 06:14 PM

Brandon, are you using a front sway bar? I searched the thread and saw a mention of upgraded bushings, but I'm curious if you installed the bar and still saw too much body roll.

Brando

06-17-2014, 06:22 PM

Yes I have the stock sway bar installed. I ended up using the stock bushings as well because the aftermarkets ones had some slop.
That pic with the body roll was a pretty aggressive turn ~70mph and my tires were sticky at that point. Not excusing it but isn't some roll expected?
From within the car i didn't feel body roll. Take pictures 3 for example. That was a 180 degree turn ~45mph and there is barely any body roll.

Here is another lap same turn. It's not nearly as bad

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Red-Turn9-FAB_9624-061414_zps0db62eb6.jpg

and for contrast

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Red-Turn9-FAB_9622-061414_zps13a8a5eb.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/June-14-2014-XtremeSpeed-Red-Turn9-FAB_9561-061414_zps309f7644.jpg

Brando

06-17-2014, 06:29 PM

contrast

http://www.caliphotography.com/photos/index.php?do=photocart&viewGallery=30871#page=thumbs

D Clary

06-17-2014, 06:46 PM

I am wondering, the fourth pic is good enough to extract measurements and see if the car is lifting in the front or not. Just picking at it . it looks great. The splitter does seem high. Called Stewarts today so I'm about 7 months behind you.

metalmaker12

06-17-2014, 07:01 PM

What leads you to believe it's the turbo. I thought it was my turbo but it's rings, and I think because of insufficient IC airflow and detonation. You have a air to water IC so it's prob not anything like mine and prob your turbo. I hope you get it figured out soon, it sucks to not drive it. Nice runs, I wish I taped mine too.

Brando

06-17-2014, 07:45 PM

I hope it is the turbo because I have an upgrade for a replacement. The turbo starts to spool then ceases with a clunk. I have a video of it but the gopro wasn't capturing audio very well, you can still hear it. You tell me what you think it is.

http://youtu.be/41r_ZzKLOS8

Scargo

06-17-2014, 07:56 PM

Please take this with a grain of salt, humor and gentle critique. You should look as good as the Fiat. You are very light and low. Body roll should be minimal. The black Bimmer with wing kind of flatness.
I suspect you need more sway bar in the front and less mush in bushings. Absolutely need a LSD. I hear people say quite frequently that they are seeing their splitters bend up and that they need to add struts to stiffen them.
It is gratifying and encouraging to hear you and others saying that the 818 handles well and is predictable.
Sounds like a solid platform.
I look forward to being around the FFR 818 race car this weekend and seeing what they are doing with their car.
Keep up the good work.
RE, noise: it is tied to the engine RPM. I think it is a single cylinder issue. Could be valve-train on one cylinder, a loose wrist pin or rod bearing. I would do a compression test and have the oil analyzed.

metalmaker12

06-17-2014, 08:10 PM

Sounds like it's not spooling at all now( compared to prior) from the video unless I am missing something. The actuator working? Any smoke? You getting full boost(do you have a gauge)? My engine runs but I got smoke, it's not my turbo and I will post the pics of my damage soon. Yours seems like a turbo issue but hard to confirm from the short video.

Brando

06-17-2014, 08:12 PM

Scargo, the noise your referring to is not detectable whatsoever in person. The engine has no audible tick at all, I was tripping when i heard the audio on this footage, very misleading. I am going to pad the mount from the frame and it will go away. I'm sure there is some underlying issue causing it, but until i can hear it from outside the car i'm not going to put any energy into it.

I did a compression test and it failed cold and passed hot.
The noise i'm worried about is the clunk you hear just as the turbo would normally start spooling.

Your right metal, there is no spool at all. There is no smoke, I have no gauge but can tell by the sound and feel there is no boost happening. How can i tell if the actuator is working?

metalmaker12

06-18-2014, 05:01 AM

You have a friend view it or you could put the gopro in the direction of the actuator and see if it's functioning as you give some throttle under load ( driving ) What were your compression numbers?

Frank818

06-18-2014, 06:12 AM

Can you gently rev higher than the clunk sound, without spooling (say at 20% TPS), to see if the clunk will happen or not?

Scargo

06-18-2014, 07:30 AM

Not to belabor the point, but I think the camera mic can hear or pick up a resonance that you may not be able to hear. Like a stethoscope can amplify sounds. It's virtually right over the engine, isn't it? What I think I hear is a frequency that is 1/4th that of the exhaust note. I can't believe it doesn't smoke some if it fails the cold crank compression test. Were the numbers even? How do the plugs look?
On a different direction, Have you checked the oil lines to and from the turbo? and do you know if it's being cooled internally with water? Many of us let our STis run for a while after coming off the track even if it is a water-cooled turbo.
If you haven't, pull the exhaust off the turbo and see if it spins by hand and see how it feels. Even when mine was still working and making boost I could feel the looseness in the center section, or CHRA (Center Housing and Rotating Assembly) and that along with smoke gave me a good indication that it was about to go. Something around .010" slop is the max allowable. You can easily feel that.

Do you know if your oil pressure is ever faltering in those high-G sweepers? That's something to watch with the Go-Pro. If you have good tires and a decent setup you may be at the point that you need at least an Accusump Accumulator. To do it right you will spend $600 for it, valve, adapter, oil filter block and hose.

Evan78

06-18-2014, 04:40 PM

I'll offer this critique of the photos - if you see that photographer at the next event, tell him to clean the dust off his sensor! All those black spots are dirt on the sensor from some point in the past when he swapped lenses. It is most evident in your side shot where only the car and dust are in focus and everything else is blurred due to panning.

Since this is primarily a track car, some gauges will provide some insurance against failures, especially if you use electronic gauges with a warning feature. Cheap mechanical gauges are tempting, but how much do you want to be staring at gauges when you're out there? Once your oil is up to temp, you really only need to know if something has exceeded your preset warning point.

D Clary

06-18-2014, 04:49 PM

Hey Brando what mirrors are you using and did they stay put. was the center one of any use?

Brando

06-18-2014, 05:23 PM

The side mirrors allow you to change the resistance level on its movement on all axes. The only time mine moves is when I kick it getting out.
On the center mirror I don't have a mounting brace under the dash to support it, but do plan on adding one because at speed the vibration does make it difficult to use. It stays put as far as adjustment goes.

SPA Center Post Sports Car Mirrors - http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/black-with-convex-lens-center-post-series.html
SPA Formula F1 Race Side Mirrors Side - http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/white-right-with-flat-lens-formula-f1-mirrorwhite-mirrors-discontinued-limited-availability.html

I think HRP discontinued them but there were easy to source elsewhere.

Scargo

06-18-2014, 05:28 PM

Since this is primarily a track car, some gauges will provide some insurance against failures, especially if you use electronic gauges with a warning feature. ... Once your oil is up to temp, you really only need to know if something has exceeded your preset warning point.I second this. I have SPA dual digital gauges with the warning lights and memory. Very helpful to see the red light blink. Oil pressure/boost pressure and oil temp/water temp. These can also trigger events. Ex: low boost high boost can trigger a fuel pump solenoid.

Brando

06-18-2014, 05:48 PM

The photographer offered to photoshop out the dust and apologized for it. I told him no bother, it's not like it was for print or anything.

Good stuff. Oil & boost pressure in addition to oil & water temps, roger that & will do. My car is pretty stark as is, not much past a go-cart. I sort of like it that way, but your right I need some insight to issues and warnings.

I am hoping i can get the turbo off and apart before i leave for week this Friday. I have more work to get there with the spoiler mount.
The journal bearings should be bluish if it was starved of oil right? At least that is what i was told by the turbo city guys.
I am hoping that is was some sort of hardware failure due to being a POS turbo as opposed to an underlying issue

metros

06-18-2014, 08:01 PM

I second this. I have SPA dual digital gauges with the warning lights and memory. Very helpful to see the red light blink. Oil pressure/boost pressure and oil temp/water temp. These can also trigger events. Ex: low boost high boost can trigger a fuel pump solenoid.

x2 on this. I had SPA dual digital gauges in my boosted s2000 and loved them. Clear, easy to read, and keeps your dash uncluttered with cutting down on the number of gauges necessary.

Love all the track video. I can feel your enthusiasm through the computer. Makes me want to spend every second in the garage working even more.

Brando

06-18-2014, 08:43 PM

I can feel your enthusiasm through the computer.
That makes happy. I work, raise my new family and this car is my vent and it hasn't been disappointing.

I pulled my turbo just now and had to come on here and share these images

I checked the AWIC and pipe and couldn't find even a sliver of aluminum anywhere. I don't understand where these pieces ended up...

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183329_zpsbafadb62.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183329_zpsbafadb62.jpg.html)

The white is frothy oil
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183304_zps8c1a0ed5.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183304_zps8c1a0ed5.jpg.html)

more oil, I whiped it down prior to this picture but it was caked all over the place
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183245_zpsd27c46da.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183245_zpsd27c46da.jpg.html)

I can move the shaft a couple mm in any direction. There doesn't seem to be a lack of oil or coolant. I'm taking it to the pro's for a proper diagnosis in the morning

Frank818

06-18-2014, 09:00 PM

Ouch, no good pix.

If the shaft moves, it's not good. Probably blown bearings. And the clunk might be when the shaft gets more tension/pressure under boost it moves and clunks. I had that prob once, it started to move and leak oil, so I changed the shaft with compressor and turbine internals.

metalmaker12

06-18-2014, 09:51 PM

That makes happy. I work, raise my new family and this car is my vent and it hasn't been disappointing.

I pulled my turbo just now and had to come on here and share these imagesetters
Qp
I checked the AWIC and pipe and couldn't find even a sliver of aluminum anywhere. I don't understand where these pieces
ended up...

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183329_zpsbafadb62.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183329_zpsbafadb62.jpg.html)

The white is frothy oil
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183304_zps8c1a0ed5.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183304_zps8c1a0ed5.jpg.html)

more oil, I whiped it down prior to this picture but it was caked all over the place
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183245_zpsd27c46da.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140618_183245_zpsd27c46da.jpg.html)

I can move the shaft a couple mm in any direction. There doesn't seem to be a lack of oil or coolant. I'm taking it to the pro's for a proper diagnosis in the morning

That turbos toasted, chunks went out exhaust maybe??

What was the compression readings

Brando

06-18-2014, 10:39 PM

I am not sure I don't have a tool to do a compression check yet and I can't remember the original leakdown results as it was months before I got my kit. I know is was double digits cold and triple digits hot if that helps lol
For the chunks to go out the exhaust wouldn't it need to go through the AWIC, intake manifold, pistons and exhaust? That's disturbing, but i think i would see fragments in the intake or AWIC if that happened.
I had a feeling the turbo was toast. I already got the other turbo in and just went for a drive...all seems well. Now I just need to figure out what killed that turbo so fast so I don't destroy this one too.

Scargo

06-19-2014, 05:18 AM

I have made my suggestion. I will be bending Joe Schenck's ear tomorrow at the track and see what FFR is doing with their engine to keep it alive.
Turbo oil feed seems to be working (there is a restrictor that could get clogged) and with the blown seals that should have smoked like a mother*. When that starts it's a good sign the seals are going and sometimes you can stop and save the CHRA for a rebuild.
You may well have water in your oil. Any froth on the dipstick? Sorry. I'm not liking this scenario.

metalmaker12

06-19-2014, 05:24 AM

Yea the pieces can find there way to other locations also, you might wanna be check everywhere.

CptTripps

06-19-2014, 06:21 AM

Man...that SUCKS.

Nothing like working hundreds of hours on something to find a stupid mechanical problem that couldn't have been avoided. I feel your pain man.

Frank818

06-19-2014, 07:01 AM

Have you started and shut down the engine many times without letting it warm up or go out for a drive before shutting it down?

D Clary

06-19-2014, 08:50 AM

I don't want to be the one to say this, but it looks like the turbo ingested something. Probably from the first turbo. I would not sweat the oil, I have had turbo seals leak badly and not affect the performance ( just keeps mosquitos away). You need to remove the intercooler and make doubly sure there is absolutely no debris in it. If the turbine parts aren't in the intercooler they went through your motor. Sorry Brando but I think that's the wall your up against.

metalmaker12

06-19-2014, 10:37 AM

I obviously feel your pain.

C.Plavan

06-19-2014, 10:59 AM

Sorry Brandon- that sucks. Do you have a stock up pipe on? Older one with a cat on it? Those can cause that to the turbo.

Just take a break from the car, don't get discouraged. Crap happens.

Frank818

06-19-2014, 11:53 AM

You have the opportunity to make it even better.

Brando

06-19-2014, 11:56 AM

No No No you guys you have it all wrong, I'm good! The only thing that irritated me is only getting 3 races in after renting a uhaul and driving 3 hours. Blowing up a $250 turbo to replace it with a superior MHI and spending a couple hours doing is all good for me. My car is already fixed I was driving it around last night. I put the better turbo back on it and its a bit quicker now. It took all of 2.5 hours including removal of diffuser and spoiler mount. +1 hour for trying to find aluminum shards.
I am leaving tomorrow for a week so I guess a break is inevitable however, but I am racing July 5th.

I would like to definitively determine the cause of the bearing failure and I would like to know where the aluminum ended up. I am not going to pull my motor apart to do so however.

For the exhaust manifold, cross pipe and up pipe I have a ceramic coated grimspeed. I am almost certain this damage was not caused by a foreign object. If i push the compressor wheel laterally it shifts VERY far, far enough to chip away at that wheel. The bearings went in a bad way, reason TBD. I was warned that this EXACT thing would happen with this turbo and its why I purchased the other one.

I removed the intercooler and I can't find a single shard of anything. I rubbed my finger in every crevasse of the AWIC where it would have accumulated. It must have grinded it down small enough to float through the AWIC, ingest and exit. Hopefully nothing stuck internally. I checked the oil and it looks fine.

I'm glad I had a turbo on the shelf that needed a $60 tune to be install worthy. I realize it's possible I may blow this turbo or even worse a motor but I'm going to take an educated guess and go off my gut feeling and go with it.
I am having the turbo analysed today, will share the results of failure.

Evan78

06-19-2014, 03:38 PM

Are you having the tune adjusted for the new turbo?

Brando

06-19-2014, 04:07 PM

The car was originally tuned with the turbo that is on it now
The compressor on the one I toasted was smaller and made less boost so I didn't re-tune for it.

During lunch I took the turbo to Turbo City and they wouldn't even touch it to assess it. They told me "we wont deal with those Jap P.O.S's". He confidently said that turbo was not suited for racing application and the tolerances and metal choices is horrible.
I can't believe they wouldn't take my money to just open it up and give it a look.

metalmaker12

06-19-2014, 07:21 PM

Get a Blouch turbo

30244

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Blouch-TD05H-18GXT-Billet-8cm-2-Subaru-Models-inc-2002-2011-WRX-STI

Frank818

06-19-2014, 07:51 PM

During lunch I took the turbo to Turbo City and they wouldn't even touch it to assess it. They told me "we wont deal with those Jap P.O.S's". He confidently said that turbo was not suited for racing application and the tolerances and metal choices is horrible.
I can't believe they wouldn't take my money to just open it up and give it a look.

How much was that turbo again? $250 full (housings and CRHA)?

Scargo

06-19-2014, 07:51 PM

Since metalmaker broached the subject... I have had good luck with my Blouch XTR. It has a good reputation with Subies.
I talked to a guy at the track who used throwaway Chinese or ? turbos and expected them to die at a high frequency. I don't agree with that logic. You should get a couple of seasons on a turbo.
A twin scroll would be the best setup but any single-input, quality ball bearing turbo would be good. The turbine housing size is important. Don't go too big or it will miss out on low-end torque and quick spool-up. With my 400 WHP/400 FPT motor I used the Blouch Dominator 2.5 XTR with the 8cm turbine housing. I'm not suggesting you use a 2.5, I was just giving an example. They offer a 10cm turbine housing for it. I am moving to a Borg-Warner twin-scroll.

D Clary

06-20-2014, 09:04 AM

Are subies harder on turbos than other cars? I have been running a turbonetics on my Mustang fo many years with substantial abuse and had no failures except a little seal leakage after you shut down. I would not be happy changing it every couple years.

Goldwing

06-20-2014, 11:06 AM

Sorry about the turbo going. Those pieces are disturbing. The intercooler channels or corners seem a likely place to get lodged in to. Disturbing thought for them to go through the engine. They would likely get hung up on the cat if you have one.

C.Plavan

06-27-2014, 07:48 PM

Brando

06-30-2014, 06:55 PM

What is the approx measurement from the rear hood pin frame bracket to the fiberglass windshield surround (that we had to trim?). I just want to know how far back the windshield fiberglass cowl/surround should go.

Sorry Chad, I have been in Mexico. I will grab a measurement tonight when I get home.

So I am putting my quest for a CA street legal 818R on hold. This car is going to be a dedicated track car until spring at the soonest.
For those of you wishing to register your car in CA be aware. I failed my brake and light inspection today.
Before my test I made sure the dashboard illuminated for my parking brake, high beams and blinkers. I had my rear license plate illumination lights working, backup lights and blinkers/hazards working. I thought I had all my bases covered and most of the failures came as a surprise.

Here is the fix list:

Rear backup and turn lights are LED and not DOT
- This one is tough. The only thing i can think of is to drill a hole in the rear and put a white DOT surface light then replace the existing turn signal with an amber DOT surface light. Ugh
Turns signals must auto cancel
- Install stock steering column and wire up. Ugh
Head lights are at 20.5 - must be at 22"
- Put front suspension at street height, tighten front coils. They wont pass 21.75 so if its still short i will get larger diameter donut tires on a temporary rim to pass. UGH!!
Brake hose close to tire at full crank
- Need to adjust
Proportioning valve not DOT
- Bypass valve
Steel braided brake lines not DOT
- Replace lines with rubber DOT lines
Rear reflectors missing
- Find and install
License plate lights LED and not DOT
- Find DOT license plate lights

So instead of dealing with all that nonsense I am going to rebuild my motor instead. I want more HP and there is an underlying issue with my bottom end. That noise the gopro was picking up is now noticeable while driving. Scargo you were right again darn-it. I think it's a wrist pin.

I'm taking this opportunity to do a 2.2 stroker. First thought is STI crank, manly pistons and rods, garrett turbo, align hone block and perhaps more depending on what i see once in there. Racing tolerances.
I'm debating an LSD but think i might stick with my first plan and wait to grenade my 5spd and take the LSD built into the 6spd when the time comes.

I am bummed to be out of commission but plan on building a stronger more durable race motor so in the long haul its for the better.

Metalmaker, we are in the same boat now buddy!

Frank818

06-30-2014, 07:13 PM

Some are weird regulations. But didn't you have some kind of book with all the rules to respect?

Anyway, so you're ditching the idea of street legalizing it and will build a new motor? Or doing both?

Brando

06-30-2014, 07:19 PM

No book, just learned what I could from picking peoples brains.

I'm putting the idea of street legal on hold, i will pick it up in the spring. For now I just want a solid race car that will take a good beating

metros

06-30-2014, 07:53 PM

That's unfortunate to hear. Tough referee or has that been the norm for other builders of other FFR kits?

Frank - before I got my 818 I contacted the DMV here in VA and was referred to contacting a specific state trooper. He only stated that my kit car had to have everything that a brand new car does, which is vague to say the least. I haven't come across a lot of information on getting a kit car registered in VA but am trying to cover all my bases by using wipers, having the stock steering column/wheel, and as much other OEM safety parts as I can. Also hoping that STiPWRD gets done with his kit first and can be the guinea pig for us in VA.

RM1SepEx

06-30-2014, 08:11 PM

I just picked up the Maine Inspection Book... :) I'll go through it and make sure I'm kosher... Tho my mechanic has told me he would give me a sticker w/o wipers... :) He builds old fords... his tow truck is awesome and he goes to Loring AFB in Northern Maine for the LSR event with his model A...

Brandon, this engine going boom problem has me very concerned... you and Chris have started a very expensive trend... Are high speed activities a problem for a basically stock motor?

Frank818

06-30-2014, 08:27 PM

He only stated that my kit car had to have everything that a brand new car does, which is vague to say the least.

That's the funniest sentence I've seen in a while!! So you need windows, you need defrost, rear window defroster, you need HVAC, a radio, auto-lock doors, a hood latch, spare tire, driver and passenger side airbags, etc. Really, that is super vague! :)

Luckily, around here there are 2 manuals I need to respect. The only thing is, I am not 100% sure they are sufficient, as some stuff are not mentioned at all and others are vague (though not as much as your trooper).

Sorry for the quick hijack Brando.

metalmaker12

06-30-2014, 10:09 PM

Sorry Chad, I have been in Mexico. I will grab a measurement tonight when I get home.

So I am putting my quest for a CA street legal 818R on hold. This car is going to be a dedicated track car until spring at the soonest.
For those of you wishing to register your car in CA be aware. I failed my brake and light inspection today.
Before my test I made sure the dashboard illuminated for my parking brake, high beams and blinkers. I had my rear license plate illumination lights working, backup lights and blinkers/hazards working. I thought I had all my bases covered and most of the failures came as a surprise.

Here is the fix list:

Rear backup and turn lights are LED and not DOT
- This one is tough. The only thing i can think of is to drill a hole in the rear and put a white DOT surface light then replace the existing turn signal with an amber DOT surface light. Ugh
Turns signals must auto cancel
- Install stock steering column and wire up. Ugh
Head lights are at 20.5 - must be at 22"
- Put front suspension at street height, tighten front coils. They wont pass 21.75 so if its still short i will get larger diameter donut tires on a temporary rim to pass. UGH!!
Brake hose close to tire at full crank
- Need to adjust
Proportioning valve not DOT
- Bypass valve
Steel braided brake lines not DOT
- Replace lines with rubber DOT lines
Rear reflectors missing
- Find and install
License plate lights LED and not DOT
- Find DOT license plate lights

So instead of dealing with all that nonsense I am going to rebuild my motor instead. I want more HP and there is an underlying issue with my bottom end. That noise the gopro was picking up is now noticeable while driving. Scargo you were right again darn-it. I think it's a wrist pin.

I'm taking this opportunity to do a 2.2 stroker. First thought is STI crank, manly pistons and rods, garrett turbo, align hone block and perhaps more depending on what i see once in there. Racing tolerances.
I'm debating an LSD but think i might stick with my first plan and wait to grenade my 5spd and take the LSD built into the 6spd when the time comes.

I am bummed to be out of commission but plan on building a stronger more durable race motor so in the long haul its for the better.

Metalmaker, we are in the same boat now buddy!

Yeah, it sucks man, and the DMV is not cool in CA, I found a small coolant leak and when I took off cap the coolant seemed to bubble up. I am going to pressure test it soon. It is coolant leak,and air pockets with maybe a hot spot and maybe made head gasket go night night. I got mike Eversons hard lines and I wil be getting the coolant bleeder tool. I have to finish bodywork and paint, but than I am getting motor apart to see the damage.

Brando

06-30-2014, 10:31 PM

Brandon, this engine going boom problem has me very concerned... you and Chris have started a very expensive trend... Are high speed activities a problem for a basically stock motor?
I see so many people racing WRX's and they don't seem too have many issues. Perhaps part of the problem is buying used engines or someone else's problem, not to mention the fact I'm less mechanically inclined then the lower-average of you guys so i'm likely to make mistakes that can domino into larger issues. If i could start over I would have opened the motor and rebuilt it properly. I took a gamble and unknowingly built up then ran the heck out of a failing motor. I'm learning quickly but the school of hard knocks is not cheap in this sport/hobby.

mikeb75

07-01-2014, 05:05 AM

I see so many people racing WRX's and they don't seem too have many issues. Perhaps part of the problem is buying used engines or someone else's problem, not to mention the fact I'm less mechanically inclined then the lower-average of you guys so i'm likely to make mistakes that can domino into larger issues. If i could start over I would have opened the motor and rebuilt it properly. I took a gamble and unknowingly built up then ran the heck out of a failing motor. I'm learning quickly but the school of hard knocks is not cheap in this sport/hobby.
Welcome to the fun of tracking Subaru's...
The EJ engines are pretty good at normal street use levels, but (IMHO) the design does have some issues at track stress levels. The oiling system in particular can have problems at high lateral loads due to the configuration of the engine (flat). I've had problems with the bypass/blow-by and an AOS on track with street tires, you must have been pulling some good sustained side-loads on track. I've been debating the expense of dry sump vs an accusump for insurance, and you've just given me a bunch more to think about (sorry).

Good luck with the teardown, looking forward to seeing more of your build and the car on the track.

longislandwrx

07-01-2014, 07:42 AM

Dear God not LED License plate lights!!!

Thank you for being a space monkey Brando... you'll get there. Seems like most of these aren't too bad. Amber turn signals, and throw a round reverse light from something like a scion xb down in the mesh temporarily.
Jack it up monster truck style. I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column. Something like

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Cancel-Turn-Signal-Controller-Auto-cancel-not-timer-Hot-Rod-Custom-Car-/261513668033?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce36de5c1

Scargo

07-01-2014, 08:18 AM

Welcome to the fun of tracking Subaru's...
The EJ engines are pretty good at normal street use levels, but (IMHO) the design does have some issues at track stress levels. The oiling system in particular can have problems at high lateral loads due to the configuration of the engine (flat). I've had problems with the bypass/blow-by and an AOS on track with street tires, you must have been pulling some good sustained side-loads on track. I've been debating the expense of dry sump vs an accusump for insurance, ...I've been modifying and racing Subies for three years in HPDE and a little autocross before that. I might have fifty days on various road courses. Early on I broke ring lands on stock pistons once due to oil getting into the CAI. I thought I had a catch-can that would handle the blowby but the particular track had a more than a 180 degree carousel. I quickly filled my can and then the oil was sucked into the intake. That's all it takes if you run near 20 PSI and lose your octane level through oil dilution. There's lots of little things that you need to know and deal with. I have not had a reliability issue since.
Don't take my word for any of this. One of the best educations you can get is to go on NASIOC, IWSTI, scoobymods.com or clubwrx.net. and pay attention to the "stickies" in various categories.

Mechie3

07-01-2014, 09:15 AM

Dear God not LED License plate lights!!!

If we allow LED license plate lights....then the terrorists have already won!

I picked up the inspection requirements for Indiana and already got part 1 done:

1: Have police verify no Vin exists, note chassis ID and motor ID
2: Take picture and form to BMV to get VIN
3: Attach VIN to car
4: Have police verify VIN is attached to car
5: Take form from line 4 to BMV and get plates

No....inspection....ever. Awww yeah! We don't even have inspection for normal street legal cars.

Brando

07-01-2014, 09:56 AM

No....inspection....ever. Awww yeah! We don't even have inspection for normal street legal cars.
Wouldn't that be nice

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column. Something like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Cancel-Turn-Signal-Controller-Auto-cancel-not-timer-Hot-Rod-Custom-Car-/261513668033?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce36de5c1

That is awesome. I'm into it and that's a great alternative to replacing the column just for an inspection. Thanks for that tip.
In reguards to the reverse lights, unfortunately they need to be on the same lateral plane as the existing lights. But I could cut out and install mesh up higher where the license plate currently is then drop some temporary lights in there.

There are a few surrounding cities that are for lack of words ghetto. I'm also considering the idea of finding a place that will overlook a few of these items, i'm not sure how consistent one place is from the next.
It doesn't matter, i'm pulling my panels off and getting ready to rebuild it so it can all sit on the backburner.

Having the car down and out for 6 weeks is a good thing, I haven't been entirely focused on work since it was delivered

Since I am tearing down the powerplant I want to make sure I cover all the bases. The drysump/accusump topic is something i'm learning more about. Scargo, when you say "can" I'm not sure what your referring to. Sorry for the ignorant question, but i'm confused how a long turn ends up pulling oil into the intake. I thought the problem was long turns starving the motor of oil. Maybe i'm way off here

Brando

07-01-2014, 09:59 AM

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

Boog

07-01-2014, 10:03 AM

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column.

I keep seeing their banner add pop up. Looks like they are a silver sponsor. http://www.gasautosolutions.com/

ehansen007

07-01-2014, 10:47 AM

Call me and I''ll give you my guys. In and out.

matteo92065

07-01-2014, 11:42 AM

Call me and I''ll give you my guys. In and out.

I'll take you up on that offer in about 3 months. :)

wleehendrick

07-01-2014, 11:57 AM

I thought I had all my bases covered and most of the failures came as a surprise.

Here is the fix list:

Crap! I have a lot of those items (BPV, SS lines, LED bulbs) on my S! I thought the lamp clusters were DOT Hella fixtures? Maybe just an incandescent bulb will make it legal? Pretty silly since LEDS are far more reliable and lots of new vehicles have LED brake, turn and DRLs, and even headlights.

And the R windshield and lack of wipers wasn't an issue? Do you think you got a harsh referee?

Looks like I'll hold onto my donor rims/tires in case I run into the headlight height issue also. You're welcome to borrow a couple whenever you want.

wleehendrick

07-01-2014, 11:58 AM

I'll take you up on that offer in about 3 months. :)

Ditto, Erik!

Brando

07-01-2014, 06:14 PM

And the R windshield and lack of wipers wasn't an issue? Do you think you got a harsh referee?

This wasn't a Ref. This was the Brake and Light inspection and its in addition to the Ref inspection. I still have to deal with the seat belts and windshield and who knows what else to appease the Refs. One thing at a time....and that thing is powerplant for me

Brando

07-02-2014, 09:11 AM

Brandon-

What is the approx measurement from the rear hood pin frame bracket to the fiberglass windshield surround (that we had to trim?). I just want to know how far back the windshield fiberglass cowl/surround should go.

Mine ended up 3/8" away which also was flush with the rear side splash guard.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140701_082749_zps7c84d35a.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140701_082749_zps7c84d35a.jpg.html)

Brando

07-02-2014, 09:20 AM

I am tempted to get one last day of AutoX in this Saturday before taking my car out of commission.

As it stands the motor knocking presents primarily when starting it for approx 1-2 seconds then goes away. You can also slightly hear it when coasting in gear > 4k RPM. Besides that everything sounds fine.
Shouldn't I be OK to get one more day of AutoX in?

I feel like there will be more knocking before failure and this is just an early sign? Maybe this is a post best served on NASIOC

longislandwrx

07-02-2014, 09:23 AM

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

reading up on it, it looks like once the inertia sensor cancels the lights, the switch position is ignored until recentered and a turn reselected. maybe post in the roadster forum.. i'm sure a few guys have them.

I feel like there will be more knocking before failure and this is just an early sign?

Guys drive for months with knock... is it worse than this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9LJP1mw0es

unless you are facing a $300 towing charge, have one more hurrah... hell put some 110 unleaded in there crank up the boost up to 22 and go for ruin! The only problem is getting bearing material in the turbo/heads. A new oil filter should prevent this. Why not. YOLO!

Brando

07-02-2014, 10:17 AM

Unless you are facing a $300 towing charge, have one more hurrah... hell put some 110 unleaded in there crank up the boost up to 22 and go for ruin! The only problem is getting bearing material in the turbo/heads. A new oil filter should prevent this. Why not. YOLO!

No way that's awesome. Thank you for that video and the kick in the rear it was just what i needed...Im in.

RM1SepEx

07-02-2014, 10:20 AM

go a wee heavier on the oil so it builds a bit more pressure in the bearings...

Boog

07-02-2014, 11:31 AM

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

I'm pretty sure the inertia turn signal only works with a momentary switch. They don't show what happens if you were to hold the switch to one side, but it probably wont work as intended. There is a long and boring (but informative) video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-YO7Cm7QI

longislandwrx

07-02-2014, 12:37 PM

if the sensor never felt the turn though would they just stay on indefinitely then? maybe theres a timeout. either way, I imagine the turn signal switch you have could be converted to momentary if you are crafty, or a quick on off would accomplish the same.

Boog

07-02-2014, 02:07 PM

I think you can press something (maybe the other direction) to cancel the signal.

matteo92065

07-02-2014, 02:17 PM

Pull valve covers, then take off the cam bearing caps on both sides. You only need to remove the caps farthest way from the cam timing belt. Just look at it to see if there is evidence of galling. I've recently worked on three of these engines with problems and all three had problems in the same spot. One of them got so bad it broke the cam.
Its an easy inspection that does not require any new gaskets, parts or other consumables.

metalmaker12

07-02-2014, 03:07 PM

If you remove the valve covers you should replace the gaskets, especially on an used engine. His problem could be many things

Zach34

07-02-2014, 10:51 PM

Turns signals must auto cancel
- Install stock steering column and wire up. Ugh

Will they accept a timer-based auto-cancelling setup like the ones they offer for motorcycles (turn signal stops after a period of time), or does it have to be tied to steering wheel motion?

Brando

07-03-2014, 10:39 AM

I know timer based wont work, i asked that specifically. Not sure if it has to be tied to steering wheel or centrifugal. Eric (ehanson) has registered his 33 without problem and feels some places are more stringent then others. I'm going to give his place a try before putting the entire registration task on hold. Who knows, they might accept my blinkers as is.

Brando

07-03-2014, 07:23 PM

I keep getting different opinions. Some people say I can drive this motor for a while, others say catastrophic failure is around the corner and don't drive it. I threw together a quick video of a cold start, a slow acceleration, a hard pull, and coasting 2nd gear. The first start and coasting (~40 seconds in the video) is where you can hear knocking but other than that it sounds fine.
I know it's hard to diagnose by listening to an internet audio clip but i would like to hear your opinion. The knocking i hear from other ej20's on the internet is FAR worse...so perhaps i'm over reacting?

http://youtu.be/MgXObTOInps

Frank818

07-03-2014, 07:58 PM

The knocking i hear from other ej20's on the internet is FAR worse...

Maybe, but any knocking isn't good.
I like the way you start the engine.

Scargo

07-03-2014, 08:37 PM

A knock, whether it is from a rod bearing or wrist pin might not affect your feeling of normalcy other than the sound. It might be an incremental difference in power loss from a rod bearing or cam lobe gone flat but no loss from a piston pin. $20 and you could have your oil analyzed. Compression check and bleed-down are almost free. I doubt a compression test would tell you anything. If it were smoking badly and off on power it might be a busted piston/ring lands. I'm betting on piston pin slap since it's lasted this long.
Just as a side note: shifting sure is noisy. I think most of it is linkage noise.

Brando

07-03-2014, 08:44 PM

When I decelerate there is a loud vibration, it's the same noise you hear during a shift. I dont think this video captured that sound however, all i hear is the bov. The virbration sound is coming from the pressure plate area. I was told it's nothing to worry about but it is rather annoying. A few have said if I reinstall that external Spring that attaches to the clutch fork it would go away. Not sure what it is but it's definitely not piston related

What type of place would you go to get your oil analysis? That's something I would be into

Scargo

07-03-2014, 09:03 PM

Blackstone Labs. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.com%2F&ei=GQm2U_TbCZS3yASHuYLYAw&usg=AFQjCNH9VJSfgVFk65ai4TJMb5oYcyJmdg&sig2=2-InF_qQLnT_pWt52oL_4A&bvm=bv.70138588,d.aWw) Testing will give you percentages of metals in the oil. Will point to specific areas, based on composition. Bearing = more lead/copper.
The other sounds like clutch chatter. Could be worse decelerating vs accelerating. What if you were to take off gently/shift gently? Was it a new clutch/pressure plate for the build?

Brando

07-04-2014, 12:24 AM

Oh that sound. Yes that is clutch chatter. It's a stage 2 exedy and pressure plate and yes it was new on build. Very hard to get off line with no chatter. If I take off gently its even worse
Will look into Blackstone labs, thanks

metalmaker12

07-04-2014, 09:09 AM

I can't confirm the rod knock or slap from video. I would muffle down exhaust and let it idle to really here a knock or slap of some kind. Do a leakdown test yourself and oil analysis to see, it will confirm if things are sealing properly and if you have engine shavings in your oil.
Seems to pull normal, and no lose of power?? Might be just the pressure plate chatter. Also I know you already bought the clutch and pressure plate, but I have tried a few and tend to favor ACT clutches and stock flywheels. I have an ACT stage 2 and it's almost oem feel just harder to push down.

apexanimal

07-04-2014, 09:10 AM

i'd think it would be up to your willingness to rebuild something if it does go wrong... if you don't mind, then go for it... if you do, then play it safe...

longislandwrx

08-05-2014, 12:40 PM

my apologies for the bad? advice, hope you got some time out of it.

Brando

08-05-2014, 12:51 PM

No regrets. Rod spun on my 2nd run. I'm glad it seized an an AutoX 10 minutes from home instead of losing a full track day and hours of towing. That decision was a blessing so thank you :).

Nothing catastrophic happened, my heads are fine and now I get to build my motor how I wanted to in the first place.

I can't deny I miss my 818. My hobby left a huge void in my garage and i'm going stir crazy without it. I feel like a lurker on this forum trying to get my fix vicariously though you guys...Well actually not you because you don't post anymore ;)

longislandwrx

08-05-2014, 03:44 PM

ouch so it's tough love ... well you guys certainly motivate.

Brando

08-10-2014, 10:40 PM

I didn't think this was quite fitting to put on my build thread. Then I realized, the ONLY REASON i'm getting into this is because I'm getting a little stir crazy without my car to work on. This weekend I challenged some of the worlds best arm wrestlers. Next weekend, who knows. I better get my car back before I get hurt doing something off the beaten path.

What did I get myself into. I saw the commercial on TV and 2 days later here I am...in way over my head. The first person I am pulling against is 3 time world champion Marcio Barboza. I think I picked up another addiction

The UAL 8

http://youtu.be/1-5MxhpSh9w?list=UU7fMs3CTHYmo0pMCEsicF6A

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling2_zpsed16a3bf.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling2_zpsed16a3bf.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling3_zps14c00a21.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling3_zps14c00a21.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling_zps622afc47.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling_zps622afc47.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling4_zps3a4f9523.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling4_zps3a4f9523.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling5_zpsb384a3e1.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling5_zpsb384a3e1.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling6_zps52b9c056.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling6_zps52b9c056.png.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling7_zpsd848d20d.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/armwestling7_zpsd848d20d.png.html)

longislandwrx

08-11-2014, 06:31 AM

I was thinking this was silly, until the video hit 1:48

;)

very cool man

Brando

08-11-2014, 08:58 AM

It was pretty intense surprisingly.
They call the girls "arm candy" lol

wleehendrick

08-11-2014, 11:35 AM

Ha! That reminds me of Direct TV's "get rid of cable" commercials... Bad things happen when you stop working on your 818. Stop entering arm wrestling tournaments. Work on your 818.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32405&d=1407774872

32405

Mechie3

08-11-2014, 06:23 PM

Yeah, that one guy is definitely a douche.

Brando

08-11-2014, 06:43 PM

There is a national tournament in Vegas in 3 months. I'm training my a$$ off and going to enter it, slam that guy and scream in his face when i'm done.
Goal is set and it will happen.

metros

08-11-2014, 06:43 PM

"It's like a switch, ya know"

*Turns hat backwards*

ehansen007

08-11-2014, 07:12 PM

Don't pull your arm off kid, come on by and work on my car!

RM1SepEx

08-11-2014, 07:50 PM

Brando

08-30-2014, 09:57 PM

Today I cutout my doors for the vents. Before fixing them I am having them wrapped with 4d carbon fiber. I am also wrapping both engine scoops. I think this will offset the car nicely and go well with the rest of the real deal CF.

My bearings didn't spin but they were melted and flattened out razor thin. Here is what became of my crank and rods. The rings were all oblong and annihilated.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300181_zpsa43d2d09.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300184_zps1dfa2a66.jpg

I received my block back from the machine shop who cleaned things up and took a few areas down to make room for the long stroke. I went with CF pistons 8:6:1.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300180_zps6af9e3f6.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300179_zps107a4f65.jpg

I lost my turbo to what appears to be oil starvation. It was a cheapo $200 ebay special so no major losses. The replacement should be a solid upgrade.

Blouch Dominator 1.5XT-R 10cm^2 Ball Bearing turbo

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300185_zpse95aad68.jpg

Brando

08-30-2014, 09:59 PM

I'm really excited about adding a LSD to my trans and I should have included this in my original build. Cusco 1.5.
Drysump arrived and looks great. Surprisingly simple for the price point.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300177_zpse174b282.jpg

One thing I don't understand is why the oil pan has 2 scavenging ports and the pump has 2 inputs but only one output. Normally Element uses a single scavenging oil can. So do these pumps work in such a way you can have 2 inputs and 1 output? Doesn't seem right. At any rate the Oil can i purchased has 2 scavenging ports so it seems fitting to have 2 outputs on the pump. Am I missing something here (besides an output port)?

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300176_zps0798d5c3.jpg

I am leaning towards this location to mount the oil can. It will require some refabrication to the wing mount but I can't think of a better spot for it. Maybe near the battery on the front firewall would work too.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/P8300186_zps6cc5ab67.jpg

C.Plavan

08-31-2014, 09:25 AM

Yeah- No oil= that. Exactly why we have the dry sump.

Parts look very nice. Looks similar :)

Just an FYI- You may get some heat for those fittings (Stress may). Some race organizations are not keen on "push on fittings". Element tried to sell me those, I said plan on racing, so no thanks. (Time Attack that they do is essentially a HPDE or TT- so sometimes Tech does not care)

Brando

08-31-2014, 10:09 AM

C.Plavan

08-31-2014, 12:21 PM

I would like to eventually race with NASA so besides the race tank and intrusion panels which I will one day add, I am trying to keep things in line with their regulations.
I was under the impression that if you kept all the oil lines out of the drivers area that these fitting were fine.

EDIT: Are you using both of your pumps out ports into both the available ports on the tank? I feel like Element should have given us that 2nd nipple

You should be OK with those fittings. I dont think they are illegal, just some racing orgs dont like them.

IIRC- You can have oil line/ water lines in the cabin as long as they are braided. Fuel lines need to be braided and covered if in the drivers compartment (firewall type shield). I need to look at the NASA rules again. I run braided oil lines through the cabin in my 911. Had them for 10+ years without a single problem.

As for a diagram, ask Phil to send you an email on how to hook them up. Double check with him, as will I. We are fine with one oil out, that is normal. Here is a good diagram I found on the web. Just minus one of the scavenge lines (picture has 3). We are going to have to use one of the middle ports as the second vent. This is just an example, again, we need to discuss with Phil

http://i.imgur.com/66QqKpH.png

FFRSpec72

09-04-2014, 12:39 PM

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140612_174734_zpsab34525a.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140612_174734_zpsab34525a.jpg.html)

Brandon, do you have a cad drawing for this, as it seems very useful and would save me the design time

Brando

09-04-2014, 05:32 PM

Sorry Tony. It was made on the fly

Frank818

09-04-2014, 06:07 PM

Sorry Tony. It was made on the fly

Best ideas always come by on the fly. :p

Sgt.Gator

09-08-2014, 09:30 AM

Did you have the Killer B Oil pan and pickup on when the oil starvation happened? I saw it in the original build list but was unsure if you had them on...

Brando

09-08-2014, 02:45 PM

I had the Killer B pickup and baffle but I did not have the pan. I have read that the STI or the Killer B pan makes a significant difference in keeping the oil from running up and out of the pan. I'm curious to see if an 818 on slicks with that pan and an accusump will be enough. Lot's of builds wrapping up so we will see soon enough.

Brando

09-10-2014, 06:31 PM

A few friends gave me a bunch of grief about putting fake CF on a car with plenty of real CF and steered me away. I ended up going with matte black and i'm glad I did.

Here is what it looked like with CF, not bad but at the same time not authentic.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140905_124045_zps3172dc56.jpg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140905_124051_zpsefa903cd.jpg

I laid up the CF on the vents too, but I have since removed it and am going with the stock flat black

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140905_130607_zpsbd586be5.jpg

The finished product:

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140910_155824_zps86120dbc.jpg

AZPete

09-10-2014, 06:58 PM

Looks much better in flat black. The stick-on CF reminds me of those old station wagons with wood-grain vinyl.

wleehendrick

09-10-2014, 07:10 PM

Looks great, Brandon!

Frank818

09-10-2014, 07:10 PM

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140612_174734_zpsab34525a.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140612_174734_zpsab34525a.jpg.html)

Quick question for which probably no one has the answer cuz no one other than me needs it lolll, what's the width of the tranny at the axles (without the axles)?

Brando

09-10-2014, 07:55 PM

Thank you, can't wait to see it all together.

Frank, I would help you out with that but at the moment my transmission is in pieces as I am installing an LSD. I hit a hurdle securing the stubs. I should have it together by this weekend if you don't get your answer by then.

Frank818

09-11-2014, 11:21 AM

No rush Brandon, I misfollowed (is that a word?) your thread and thought the tranny was still in, but I guess I hop in at the right moment, cuz soon enough you will have the tranny in your hands for reinstallation, which will then make it a 30sec measurement. I prefer that than if you had to remove panels and stuff. The reason for the measurement is I am comparing tranny options and already know some WRX tranny measurements, but not this one.

Brando

09-21-2014, 01:36 AM

I don't believe I updated my thread with the details of blowing my motor.

Shortly into my 3rd session running at my first TT track event with the 818 my turbo failed and the engine introduced rod knock.

I contemplated running a last AutoX event in before having the motor rebuilt and stroked. I threw in a cheap turbo I had sitting on a shelf and went for it. I made it half way through my second run before the motor spun a bearing. Thankfully there was no damage to the block or heads. The AutoX event was only 6 miles from my house so i drove the 818 there. Of all the lessons to learn from this, two come to mind. Oil starvation makes quick work of an engine, and AAA is not equipped to tow a car this low. What a nightmare that tow was.

I didn't trust my skill set enough to build a short block and I didn't want to go through this again anytime soon. Brian (Iwire) referred me to a good friend Frank at Prolific Auto Sports. He specializes exclusively on WRX motors. He taught me quite a bit and hooked me up with stroking and building my short block. Him along with Element Tuning held my hand in getting the dry sump setup correctly. Things went off without much a hitch

The vent at the top of the oil tank is temporary. In its place I am installing a catch can.

I was supposed to dynotune tune today but things fell though due to an exhaust hurdle. I don't have a bellmouthed downpipe and therefor my wastegate port hits the plate connected to my exhaust. So at the most the wastegate will open 50% as is. I was worried about boost creep or spiking and we decided to hold off on tuning until something is figured out. Curious what everyone else does to fix this.

http://youtu.be/TSnIxsy9RPg

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_125020_zps6a113664.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_125020_zps6a113664.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_120704_zps13d02062.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_120704_zps13d02062.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_120424_zps8baab53a.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_120424_zps8baab53a.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_124942_zps8a0674b5.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_124942_zps8a0674b5.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_125005_zpsf910539e.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_125005_zpsf910539e.jpg.html)

11' Race ramps had made my SWEET uhaul trailer much more 818 friendly.
They are huge and rather hard to store, but my body panels thank me.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_181849_zps0c5680d5.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_181849_zps0c5680d5.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_181830_zps5518388d.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140920_181830_zps5518388d.jpg.html)

Brando

09-21-2014, 01:37 AM

Frank (Pearldrummer7) was in the area from N.Y. on business this past week. I took the opportunity to talk some shop with a fellow builder. As always no regrets, this community is solid.
So I took him to a local club, Sutra for the evening with a few other friends. My girl shot this photo and she claims she didn't mean to catch the GOGO dancer. Jury is out on that one. If she did mean to...mad camera skills!

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/IMG_0352_zps1ecd3d5f.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/IMG_0352_zps1ecd3d5f.jpg.html)

mikeb75

09-21-2014, 07:04 AM

Brando,

Are you currently running a divorced downpipe? Have you looked into an external waste gate? That would be one solution to your clearance issue (not the cheapest though).

Rasmus

09-21-2014, 08:19 AM

That sucks to read about your oil starvation and spun rod. Dry sump looks great.

Scargo

09-21-2014, 08:48 AM

Looks good. Who's dry sump kit and what is capacity and specs on parts? Petersen pumps and tank? Am I correct that the pumps are designed to mount on the stock alternator/ex-a/c compressor bracket?
I don't see an oil cooler, bypass valve, heater, etc...

C.Plavan

09-21-2014, 09:47 AM

Very cool. Looks great

Since I have not even touched my dry sump. Can you shoot me over the line hook up diagram? I'm confused on the breather lines coming from the heads. I'm guessing you tee them together.

I'm dropping my 911 motor/trans today to get my transmission rebuilt. Once that is done. It will be full steam on the 818R.

Brando

09-21-2014, 09:42 PM

Most of the kit is sold by Element Tuning. Their oil tank manufacturer is 6 months back ordered, perhaps even closing their doors. Both Chad and I went with a 2 gallon Peterson tank in its place. Besides that most everything else is made by ARE.
Yes, the pump has a mounting bracket that installs over the stock A/C bracket and uses the stock A/C belt.
I am not doing a heater/cooler at this point in time. Maybe down the road, but i'm not sure I will need it for 20 minute runs will I? I am not sure how a bypass valve fits into this setup, so that's probably why your not seeing one. Feel free to educate me however, if you think it's worth doing them please do tell.

I don't see myself switching to an external wastegate, but probably will find a cost effective downpipe and start over on the exhaust routing or will try and cutout the area and have it merged in somehow.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140921_184915_zpsa680f892.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140921_184915_zpsa680f892.jpg.html)

Chad, i put together a pretty ugly diagram of how I have mine routed. Basically yes, I ran a T splitter off the PCV. I think I will need a second one once I start running the catch can.

I still need to TIG weld the barbed fittings on the catch can.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140921_184954_zpsa23a28e1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/20140921_184954_zpsa23a28e1.jpg.html)

I was planning on running a 2nd T off the PCV and hooking it up like this

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/dry-sump-flow_zpsb5c0263e.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/dry-sump-flow_zpsb5c0263e.jpg.html)

Sorry about the hacked diagram.

Mechie3

09-21-2014, 09:53 PM

Frank looks like a kid standing next to Brando. Next time take him to K1 speed for some east coast vs west coast 818R builder kart offs. From 2009 to 2013 I was in Brea every other month. Always went to k1 on Tuesday and Thursday after work.

Wayne Presley

09-21-2014, 10:11 PM

So that's really a 2 stage scavenge pump with a factory oil pump on the motor correct?

Brando

09-21-2014, 10:27 PM

I'm bummed I didn't think of that. K1 would have been a fun start to the evening and result in some light hearted bragging rights. It is only a few miles away from me too. Next time for sure.

Wayne, there is only 1 outlet being used which pulls from both scavenging inlets. Is that what constitutes a 2 stage pump, many to one? If so then yes it is a 2 stage.
Yes the factory oil pump is still used.

Wayne Presley

09-22-2014, 07:20 AM

And they get how much for it???

Santiago

09-22-2014, 07:27 AM

So that's really a 2 stage scavenge pump with a factory oil pump on the motor correct?

I seem to recall that Element's contention was that neither pressure nor cavitation from the factory pump was ever a concern for them, they just couldn't keep oil in the pan. This is how they put together an "affordable" dry sump system.

Looks good Brando! But I wonder...with your exhaust and that dry sump, could you cut/re-weld the motor mounts and drop the engine an inch (or more)? =)

Best,
-j

Wayne Presley

09-22-2014, 07:33 AM

Why are you running the PCV vented to atmosphere? The scavenge pump should be able to pull a very good vacuum in the motor which helps the rings seal better

mikeb75

09-22-2014, 07:39 AM

Kinugawa turbo sells a short bellmouth downpipe (elbow, so really just the outlet flange tapered into a tube) that may be able to replace the plate flange you have -but the geometry will be different; there is a bend (down) to the kinugawa part.

C.Plavan

09-22-2014, 09:11 AM

Brando

09-22-2014, 09:52 AM

with your exhaust and that dry sump, could you cut/re-weld the motor mounts and drop the engine an inch (or more)?
I was throwing that question around the forum when I ordered the dry sump kit but was shot down. I still feel the motor could be dropped a full inch, perhaps more. Definitely something I am interested in looking into.

I could only find this bellmouth at kinugawaturbo. (http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/nissansilviasr20dets13s14s15downpipeturbooutlet.as px) I do see quite a few wrx downpipes (https://www.google.com/search?q=2004+wrx+downpipe+bellmouth&num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=li4gVKTCKcG1ogSMo4CwCQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=960&bih=477) that I could hack up. First I am going to call every wrx shop around town and see what I can't dig up.

I have not yet installed the catch can I had planned on discussing this with Element, the CA referees wont pass my car if my PCV isn't closed either. I was also confused about that.
Is there a better to do this Wayne?

I am way outside of my knowledge set here and learning as I go. Lot's of "I don't knows" and that's my primary reason for posting content here. I appreciate the questions but REALLY appreciate the answers. :)
When your someone like me, who has never worked with anything like a dry sump before it's unlikely I am going to try and build my own kit. I will pay the money for a bolt on dry sump kit like this. Regarding the prices all I can say is you should put together your own dry sump kit and offer it. I would have surely purchased my kit from you and support our team of vendors.
Offer a package (AWIC + Dry Sump Kit). I would have been all over it.

mikeb75

09-22-2014, 09:56 AM

Its a bit hidden:
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbodownpipesubaruelbowimprezawrxstitd04ltd05.asp x

Brando

09-22-2014, 10:04 AM

Mike that's perfect. Thank you!

Wayne Presley

09-22-2014, 10:06 AM

How much was the dry sump system?

C.Plavan

09-22-2014, 10:32 AM

I was throwing that question around the forum when I ordered the dry sump kit but was shot down. I still feel the motor could be dropped a full inch, perhaps more. Definitely something I am interested in looking into.

If I lowered my engine 1", my headers would be way too low on an already too low car. Race curbs can do some real damage. :)

C.Plavan

09-22-2014, 10:34 AM

How much was the dry sump system?

$2499 without hoses/AN fittings (-12).

wleehendrick

09-22-2014, 12:21 PM

Mike that's perfect. Thank you!

Mike beat me to it; I got the Kinugawa bellmouth also; it's a nice piece and bolts up perfect, although I haven't welded the rest of my exhaust yet, I have everything I need (3" SS elbow, muffler, 3" SS tailpipe) and should be straight-forward.

JeromeS13

09-22-2014, 02:30 PM

Single scroll:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbodownpipesubaruelbowimprezawrxstitd04ltd05.asp x

JDM twin scroll:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbodumpdownpipeheadsubaruwrxstivf36vf37twinscrol l3specc.aspx

JeromeS13

09-22-2014, 02:31 PM

Wow... I was really late to the game, but didn't see the other responses. Haha

tango68ss

09-22-2014, 03:00 PM

metalmaker12

09-22-2014, 03:38 PM

Hey guys, I'm all about the Dry Sump, etc talk... but did you see the @$$ on that Girl!??! (Damn, I've been in Africa too long!)... Nice pic Brando! Makes me remember what I'm fightin' for!!

Ditto nice rear end on that piece

Frank818

09-22-2014, 04:17 PM

Pearldrummer7

09-22-2014, 05:04 PM

What a great shot! Thanks for the warm welcome to the area and the awesome night out! Karting next time for sure!

You've all but convinced me to go dry sump....

Scargo

09-22-2014, 05:15 PM

Where (here) were you shot down on lowering the motor and tranny? I intend to do dry sump and lowering is a consideration of mine. I'm not sure what the negatives are. You can always shim back up... Too much trouble? Perhaps for some without fabbing skills or equipment.
BTW, you could consider lowering the oil reservoir tank. That's over 20 pounds you could dramatically lower and possibly relocate for balance.
EDIT: It is my understanding that you only half fill the reservoir. That's less weight. Still, only 4-5 quarts in the system is not a lot. I wonder if this is typical or if it is common to fill it more?

Mind you, I have yet to do a dry sump. I have read plenty. Looks like yours are Aviad pumps; at least from the Photoshopped image (which is cool), it looks like you used an image of Aviad pumps.
There are two things that come to mind: Why are you not pulling a vacuum on the engine? Consider how the engine is vented. Second is: Why did you not add pumps to suck on the heads (per recommendation of Chris @ KillerBMotorsports)? If you generate sufficient G's then I believe this is worth doing. It IS a flat engine.
Again, I add the caveat that I've never done a dry sump install. I have a pretty fancy setup on my STi which has held me in good stead. That and what I've read lead me to ask the question about a thermostatic valve. You need that if you have an oil cooler. It will bypass the oil cooler until the oil is up to temp. I use a Mocal. If you have 10 or more quarts of oil it takes a while for it to get up to temp. That is why, when it's cool, that some racers run a heater in the oil reservoir.
I have 9+ quarts of oil in my STi's system. Two are in the Accusump. One is in the cooler/lines. Those do not get much circulation, use or heating unless called on. So I'm circulating 7 quarts. Perhaps I'm just saying that it takes a while to warm up a huge oil reservoir and that should be taken into consideration, especially when it's cool and you are revving/pushing the engine.

Edit: Sorry. I was distracted by the buns. I missed some previous posts. If you tie the venting into the PCV spot on the case then you lose any vacuum you might have. The system might need a vacuum relief valve if it works very effectively. Some have suggested that if the oil pump were mounted externally, and part of the dry sump system, that you could better and more easily address the adjustment of oil pressure.
Ideally, I think you need to rework and relocate the exhaust. Have you checked the Db level? Move the muffler and you could relocate the oil reservoir on that side and lower. Here I am, armchair quarterbacking and I haven't touched mine yet.

Scargo

09-22-2014, 05:21 PM

There is a lot of technique involved. When I was 18 I worked in a bottling plant. At 147 I was able to beat everyone else in the plant, I did toss 1000's of cases of soda into trucks every night @ 42 lbs/case

Review the video and watch the best guys get their preferred body position. Do some research too.
Reminds me of 50 years ago... (yes, fifty), that at 137, I could out arm wrestle guys twice my weight. I unloaded freight cars and worked in a warehouse. We all go through our phases, whether by choice or not. I had to work and I had to fit in with a lot of blacks. I found a way.

Brando

09-22-2014, 05:58 PM

She did have a great assets didn't she.

Scargo I definitely want to keep the vacuum on the engine. I am working with someone to refine what I have thus far, so it's back to the drawing board for a few days.
I played with a few different locations. Until I get a fuel cell and completely sacrifice the passenger seat I rather keep it out of drivers compartment. As far as engine bay location is concerned, aside from directly behind the tires, where it is now is the only spot I could fit it. I can't go any lower it hits the frame. The images I cut up in photoshop were taken from the actually pieces themselves before I installed them. So the sticker on it I suppose was correct

longislandwrx

09-23-2014, 06:39 AM

Well sign me up for a CA visit.

Wayne Presley

09-23-2014, 07:43 AM

Brando,
Hook up the system so that the only vent is on the top of the oil tank. You can cap all the breathers on the case and valve covers. Put a set pressure vacuum relief valve on one and run with it. Be nice if you could datalog the case vacuum as it will give you a running indicator of the health of the engine.

She did have a great assets didn't she.

Scargo I definitely want to keep the vacuum on the engine. I am working with someone to refine what I have thus far, so it's back to the drawing board for a few days.
I played with a few different locations. Until I get a fuel cell and completely sacrifice the passenger seat I rather keep it out of drivers compartment. As far as engine bay location is concerned, aside from directly behind the tires, where it is now is the only spot I could fit it. I can't go any lower it hits the frame. The images I cut up in photoshop were taken from the actually pieces themselves before I installed them. So the sticker on it I suppose was correct

Brando

09-23-2014, 07:53 AM

Awesome Thanks Wayne.
So i should also cap the Peterson oil tank port currently going to pcv
Should I be concerned or make provisions to capture water out of the oil still?

07FIREBLADE

09-23-2014, 02:28 PM

She's one of the dancer/bottle service girls. This is actually quite funny I work at Sutra. Might of saw you Brandon but didn't recognize you. Carry on

Brando

09-23-2014, 02:31 PM

She was a GoGo that night. That's great Sutra has been my go-to for the past decade. We probably have many mutual friends coming out of that place. I have my 818 at Garage Tuning getting new exhaust routed and some TIG welding done. Did you ever get your engine back from them? Happy with the finished product?

07FIREBLADE

09-23-2014, 02:46 PM

Ya I got it back from them awhile ago. I'm currently working on body panels so I can get my VIN and rest of the registration process done. Currently my driver door is stuck and it's giving me tons of issues. I was planning to get up there and have a baseline tune done next week. But I'm not that confident with my time table anymore.

Brando

09-29-2014, 02:28 PM

I got my car put back together. Canards installed but haven't cut in the vents yet. Dynopack came in at 350/350. I decided to get a little track session in at Buttonwillow this past Saturday (config 13 cw). I have not run this track in over 6 years so I pretty much had to relearn it.
Unfortunately on my 5th lap I started hearing some bad detonation between 6k-7k RPM. I pulled the car off immediately and called it a day. It was a stinger because Buttonwillow is a 3 hour drive, so 6 hours driving for a 14 minute run. Darn Gremlins.

I am hesitant to post the video because I was driving very passive, not using the entire track by any measure because I was still mapping it out in addition to still feeling the new car setup before pushing any limits. I was downshifting late and missed a few rev matches. I wish I had a few more sessions in to have captured a better video but hey there is one thing to take away from it. At Buttonwillow anything under 2:00 is a respectable time. I ran a 2:05 feeling it out. So that is promising. Sub 2:00 will be easily achievable.

I set the wing AOA of 10 degrees and was planning on pulling some of it out once I felt out the balance. I didn't get the car to under/over steer so I didn't find the sweet spot on the setup. Heck I barely got the tires warm.

Anyways, it was fun to turn this beast at 120mph. It was beyond solid, not a hint of instability and the car was begging to be pushed harder. Soon enough...baby steps.
Speaking of babies, now that I have one and my love for her grows every day, I find it harder to push envelopes I once lived for.

http://youtu.be/vKyUNlPFnfE

Next on the list is data logging and gauges so I can determine if IAT's, A/F, Boost or whatever else could be causing the detonation can be determined.

JeromeS13

09-29-2014, 02:55 PM

Data logging is definitely needed for a race car. I hope you find out soon. I would also like to know your IAT's during a session.

Also, do you have a dyno sheet? How much boost are you running? I'm debating on going ahead and upgrading to the 1.5 XT-R to get my IAT's down...

Brando

09-29-2014, 04:25 PM

They did the Dyno outdoors. Their printer was indoors. While they were moving the Dyno unit inside they clipped the surge protector and took down the unit, prior to saving my dyno data.
I am no expert but I felt the dyno showed rather spikey with a unexpected falloff up top.
Weird thing with his boost level readings is how it flatlined at 18lb of boost. It was like it stopped reading after 18lb. I wish I had a graph of the boost to show you what I mean.
I did happen to take a picture of the HP graph before he moved the unit and lost the data. I don't understand why the HP starts wavering after peak. The graphs I have seen with the dom 1.5 look completely different then what I am seeing here.

34091

Scargo

09-29-2014, 04:33 PM

I think you and the car show promise. As my friend (who's an instructor) would say, "what you need is seat time". I hope it gets sorted out soon so you can play. I remember having a child; I sold my motorcycles and calmed down. New priorities.

Brando

09-29-2014, 04:39 PM

I remember having a child; I sold my motorcycles and calmed down. New priorities.

So true. Can't leave the little one behind with no daddy. The "live fast die young" are no longer are words I can live by.

Seat time is definitely going to help, but proven hard to come by thus far.

C.Plavan

09-29-2014, 05:50 PM

You should of just filled it with 110 octane they sell there. :)

Looks good, but that dyno chart is weird. Where is the A/F ratio? What injectors did you get?

Brando

09-29-2014, 06:13 PM

D Clary

09-29-2014, 07:27 PM

I would suspect that you need to pull a little timing out of it at high rpm/ boost. you will have a more stable horsepower curve and a lot more leeway for high IAT and octane changes.

Frank818

09-29-2014, 08:04 PM

I am no expert but I felt the dyno showed rather spikey with a unexpected falloff up top.

I have never seen a dyno so spikey, it's like if you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

metalmaker12

09-29-2014, 08:36 PM

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.

sponaugle

09-30-2014, 12:24 AM

I already had 100 octane in it, the detonation came on so strong and loud it had me concerned to continue racing and I recon that 110 wouldn't have solved it. Could be wrong though.
I kept the same 750cc deatschwerks. A/F was a smidgen over 11.

I'm going to spend some time getting this thing plated, it's such a hassle to trailer it around for little things like a dyno tune or simple welding job.

I am surprised you could get knock that is loud enough to be audible while you were driving, especially with 100 octane fuel. Something wrong there. Get some datalogs.

I have never seen a dyno so spikey, it's like if you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

That is a very spiky dyno chart for sure... It reminds me of a turbo that has a weak wastegate spring. It is able to deliver some boost in the midrange but then falls off up top.

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.

Absolutely.. do a road log and post it up. Try doing a pull starting at 1500 rpm in 3rd gear all the way to redline. That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

Cheers,

Jeff

Brando

09-30-2014, 08:36 AM

you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

You are joking right? You forgot the wink face ;)

I am surprised you could get knock that is loud enough to be audible while you were driving, especially with 100 octane fuel. Something wrong there.

It was probably the loudest knock I have ever heard. No question the car needed to be pulled off the track and reassessed.

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.
Try doing a pull starting at 1500 rpm in 3rd gear all the way to redline. That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

Cool sounds good. I need to find myself a cable and software. I haven't gotten into the ECU yet but I am way overdue. Soon as i get the necessary hardware/software I will grab some data and post it up here.
One concern is the detonation didn't start until the 4th lap, it's going to be hard for me to put that kind of strain and heat on the car driving it around my house with no tags. Hopefully the underlying issue will still expose itself with a few hotlaps around the block.

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 08:42 AM

This is why I went with the JDM twin scroll VF37 on an EJ25. I like my torque.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/JeromeS13/Project%20818/photo_zpszxc6tu2m.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/JeromeS13/media/Project%20818/photo_zpszxc6tu2m.jpg.html)

Brando

09-30-2014, 08:43 AM

Can you please point me in the right direction for the best software/hardware solution to use to capture the logs?

Brando

09-30-2014, 08:44 AM

This is why I went with the JDM twin scroll VF37 on an EJ25. I like my torque.
That's exactly what I would like to see. Nice bro

I am considering trading in my Dom for a twin scroll setup, but first I want to see the dom 1.5 is capable of on my engine.
Where it is at now is not exemplary of what the 1.5 is capable of, not even close.

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 08:47 AM

Can you please point me in the right direction for the best software/hardware solution to use to capture the logs?

The best/easiest route would be with a Tactrix cable and RomRaider, I believe. There's a whole forum for RomRaider.

Brando

09-30-2014, 10:01 AM

That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

I ordered the Tactrix and downloaded/installed RomRaider. Currently I am looking at the RomRaider Logger. Lot's of parameters.
What parameters should I be capturing to the Log csv file?

Scargo

09-30-2014, 10:31 AM

I think you have a EJ257? 1.5XT-R on it should look something like this. Max boost of 19.9.
http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&sat=0&cb=0&dgr=1&smm=0&sg=1&runid1=2222&rgb1=000000255
EDIT: Oops!:o

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 10:37 AM

I think you have a EJ257? 1.5XT-R on it should look something like this. Max boost of 19.9.
[/COLOR]

He's running a 2.0 liter, Glyn.

Frank818

09-30-2014, 11:33 AM

You are joking right? You forgot the wink face ;)

Yeah I was of course and still am, forgot the wink, was still looking at the gogo girl, but I also tried to be super super polite, that it's technically possible someone would want a super narrow torque band for a very ultra specific reason, get the most out of it and not care about the other ranges. :) Of course you need gear ratios to match that ultra tight range.

I am surprised you didn't notice any power drop when you drive it? I mean torque increases slowly, then WHAM kick in the bot, then immediately after, off power, adrenaline down. Maybe it wasn't noticeable enough when driving? Talking about torque curve, not the knocking.

Like everyone said, you really need some logging to check on those issues (apparent knocking and spikey torque curve).

Brando

09-30-2014, 04:06 PM

I have the Romraider log, car and ECU definitions updated and the Openport 2.0 will be here Thursday.
I'm excited to start digging into the data side of this project. My career is based on data, reporting and analytics so this should be a fun new chapter.

I'm looking at 96 different parameters to capture. What parameters should I be capturing on my first data logging attempt?

A/F Adjustment Voltage (V)
A/F Correction #1 (%)
A/F Correction #2 (%)
A/F Correction #3 (16-bit ECU) (%)
A/F Correction #3 (32-bit ECU) (%)
A/F Heater Duty (%)
A/F Lean Correction (%)
A/F Learning #1 (%)
A/F Learning #2 (%)
A/F Learning #3 (%)
A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #1 Current (mA)
A/F Sensor #1 Heater Current (A)
A/F Sensor #1 Resistance (ohms)
A/F Sensor #2 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #2 Current (mA)
A/F Sensor #2 Heater Current (A)
A/F Sensor #2 Resistance (ohms)
Accelerator Pedal Angle (%)
Alternator Duty (%)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Brake Booster Pressure (psi)
CO Adjustment (V)
Cold Start Injector (Air Pump) (ms)
Coolant Temperature (F)
CPC Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Differential Pressure Sensor Voltage (V)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Exhaust OCV Current Left (mA)
Exhaust OCV Current Right (mA)
Exhaust OCV Duty Left (%)
Exhaust OCV Duty Right (%)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Front O2 Heater Current #1 (A)
Front O2 Heater Current #2 (A)
Front O2 Sensor #1 (V)
Front O2 Sensor #2 (V)
Fuel Consumption (Est.) (mpg (US))
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Level (V)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Tank Pressure (psi)
Fuel Temperature (F)
Gear Position (gear)
IAM (multiplier)
Idle Speed Control Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Idle Speed Control Valve Step (steps)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Intake OCV Current Left (mA)
Intake OCV Current Right (mA)
Intake OCV Duty Left (%)
Intake OCV Duty Right (%)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Learned Ignition Timing (degrees)
Main Accelerator Sensor (V)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Memorised Cruise Speed (mph)
Number of Exh. Gas Recirc. Steps (steps)
Pressure Differential Sensor (psi)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Rear O2 Heater Current (A)
Rear O2 Heater Voltage (V)
Rear O2 Sensor (V)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #1 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #2 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #3 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #4 (misfire count)
SCV Step (steps)
Secondary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Sub Accelerator Sensor (V)
Sub Throttle Sensor (V)
Throttle Motor Duty (%)
Throttle Motor Voltage (V)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Tumble Valve Position Sensor Left (V)
Tumble Valve Position Sensor Right (V)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

Frank818

09-30-2014, 04:16 PM

Here are some I think may be interesting to check:

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #2 (AFR)
Accelerator Pedal Angle (%)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Temperature (F)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #1 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #2 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #3 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #4 (misfire count)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

I do not know the WRX enough, but I think that's a start.

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 04:19 PM

This is a good start with good info:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5384

Frank818

09-30-2014, 04:42 PM

Brandon, I guess you were running open loop?

Evan78

09-30-2014, 04:57 PM

One concern is the detonation didn't start until the 4th lap, it's going to be hard for me to put that kind of strain and heat on the car driving it around my house with no tags. Hopefully the underlying issue will still expose itself with a few hotlaps around the block.I'm no expert, but I would try to avoid the knock event you experienced. My approach would be to get the oil up to temp and then do ONE 3rd gear pull and post the results. Even without knock, there might be some red flags.

Brando

09-30-2014, 05:51 PM

Building my profile for the log and noticed there was no check box to capture boost levels.

Wayne Presley

09-30-2014, 06:03 PM

Manifold Absolute Pressure Brando...
0 kPa = 0 psi =0 Bar
100 kPa = 14.7 psi = 1 bar = 0 psi boost

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 06:15 PM

Or boost pressure in manifold = Manifold Relative Pressure

Wayne Presley

09-30-2014, 06:19 PM

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Tank Pressure (psi)
IAM (multiplier)
Idle Speed Control Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Idle Speed Control Valve Step (steps)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Learned Ignition Timing (degrees)
Main Accelerator Sensor (V)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

This would be my list if the data rate is high enough.

if it has a low data rate

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

JeromeS13

09-30-2014, 06:24 PM

Do you have a wideband O2 installed?

Brando

09-30-2014, 06:33 PM

Wayne thank you! That was super helpful.
What do you consider to be a high data refresh rate?

Yes Jerome I do have a wideband O2 installed

Wayne Presley

09-30-2014, 06:55 PM

You can cheat and use one of the TGV position sensor wires to datalog the wideband voltage directly since the valves are probably not there..

Brando

09-30-2014, 08:39 PM

Wayne, sorry if I am slow to grasp all of this. So if I understand you correctly, since I have a TGV delete I can take those wires and capture the wideband voltage into the "Tumble Valve Position" parameter.
Am I capturing the wideband voltage from the Wideband O2 sensor plug? I don't need to keep that plugged into it's rightful spot when I do the datalog?

Wayne Presley

09-30-2014, 09:53 PM

Brando,
Your wideband should be a sensor with a control module/cable with a 0-5V+ output. The stock ECU is designed for a narrow band sensor. How were logging the AFR with the wideband?

STiPWRD

09-30-2014, 09:56 PM

What sort of wideband o2 are you using? Most of the wideband AFR gauges have a wire that outputs the wideband voltage (0-5V). I think this is the wire that has to be hooked up to the TGV position sensor. This is a very cool trick, never heard of it but will most likely use it in the future, thanks Wayne!

Brando

10-03-2014, 07:41 PM

Hi Guys. I just completed a 3 gear pull. 90 degrees out and it was up a moderate hill.

CLICK HERE FOR 3rd Gear Pull on Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10w_nTPTyDWeRQKIODDMr3SAFiYhqk85ZIU7zAJ5uWM8/edit?usp=sharing)

As I mentioned on the dyno results, it appeared the boost hit 18.5 psi and just flat-lined right there. The Manifold Relative Pressure (psi) would indicate the same. Isn't that odd for the boost to hit a wall like that? 18.43 psi?
I appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance for taking a look at my log files.

Rasmus

10-03-2014, 08:00 PM

it appeared the boost hit 18.5 psi and just flat-lined right there. The Manifold Relative Pressure (psi) would indicate the same. Isn't that odd for the boost to hit a wall like that? 18.43 psi?

Because you have wastegate duty cycle logged also I'm gonna say, No, that's not weird. The log read's like 18.43psi is your target boost and the wastegate is opening up more and more to keep the system from overboosting the target. Looks to be functioning fine. AFR's look nice too, hitting a nice 11.25 ratio.

JeromeS13

10-03-2014, 08:08 PM

JeromeS13

10-03-2014, 08:11 PM

I'm no tuning expert by any means, but your total timing looks to be a good bit too high.

Wayne Presley

10-03-2014, 08:41 PM

Hey Brando,
It's running a lot timing on the front and trying to pull it due to the knock sensor. It looks like the MAF sensor is getting close to maxing out, I've read that 4.72 is the top of the MAF sensor curve. Who did the tuning?

Brando

10-03-2014, 09:00 PM

My original tune was done by Church Automotive. No issues 17psi. After the rebuilt the tune was done by Garage tuning. I have an appointment next Saturday at Church Automotive again.
Hopefully things will be back on point after that.

Frank818

10-03-2014, 09:53 PM

"Church" Automotive.

In God We Trust. :)

27-28-deg at 18.4psi of boost? Are you running 7.0 CR? Wayne already answered, I don't know about Subaru's engines, but EDIT: [on pump gas, which you aren't using I think] over 20-22-deg with forged pistons and 20psi at 8.5CR I'd question it, just in case.
Seems odd that your knock correction is always pulling back timing. That should be 0 across the board. At least that's how I tune it. Actually I don't like knock sensors and don't use them, cuz when they apply corrections, it's already too late, it knocked.

Nice log though, I love logging and optimizing tunes. I just don't know anything about the limits and behaviors of the Subaru's engines.

Wayne Presley

10-03-2014, 11:02 PM

Before you have it tuned, I'd move the IAT sensor to after the IC.

Brando

10-03-2014, 11:07 PM

Roger that.
Why do you think the IAT's drop during the pull? 117 to 104.

Wayne Presley

10-03-2014, 11:09 PM

I looked at the tune for the 411 HP motor I just did and its running 14° of timing at 4500 RPM/23psi with 110 octane fuel, your running 28° at 18.5 psi with pump gas right?

Brando

10-03-2014, 11:11 PM

100 octane

Wayne Presley

10-03-2014, 11:13 PM

Your IAT sensor is in the MAF sensor and as you roll out faster, more outside air gets in the engine compartment and into the motor.

metalmaker12

10-04-2014, 08:53 AM

Brando that tune and dyno chart is way off man. Your timing is scary and way off also. I would check the motors vitals out prior to another tune.Than if good get a tune that is not just aweful. Also You're running an oem maf wiring setup, and a 2.0 non avcs motor, if so, you might want to go speed density with your setup and tune. This will get rid ( tune out) of the maf and intake and you can place the iat in its rightful place. Just moving it disturbs other tables and the tuning will become more of a guessing game and take up more valuable time.

Brando

10-04-2014, 11:29 AM

Wayne Presley

10-04-2014, 12:19 PM

He means to do a compression or leak down test to make sure you didn't hurt the Pistons

JeromeS13

10-04-2014, 01:06 PM

I would also check to see if there's something loose and banging against the engine/trans somewhere. If so, the ECU may think it's knock and be pulling excessive timing. Get someone to check for ticking sounds all over.

metalmaker12

10-04-2014, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

The company I am having re-tune is Church Auto and they do one and only one thing. Tune Honda and Subaru. He has a very solid reputation and is one of the most respected Subaru tuners in SoCal. I'm going to give him a shot before looking elsewhere.

The motor is a JDM and has AVCS. When you say check out the vitals what exactly does that entail?

So your running an ej207 like me, or a jdm ej205.
Go for the retune as you are and I have heard good things of church, so they should be able to get it running correctly. I am thinking your going to be ok. Keep the avcs and just fix whatever you got going on. Good luck!!!

Brando

10-06-2014, 03:37 PM

I'm getting a brake and light inspection AGAIN today. Fingers crossed.

I'm getting my toe in changed while it's there. I have heard a few different opinions. I was going to go with even up front and 1/8 toe in on the rear. 3/16 seems to much. Is 1/8" enough?

wleehendrick

10-06-2014, 04:02 PM

I'm getting a brake and light inspection AGAIN today. Fingers crossed.

Good luck, Brandon. Hope you get a more reasonable inspector this time!

Scargo

10-06-2014, 04:41 PM

I was going to go with even up front and 1/8 toe in on the rear. 3/16 seems to much. Is 1/8" enough?
While I am an "a*s man" more than anything else, I don't know about toe in the rear. It might depend on how solid the rear-end is.
I don't know the answer, but before you write me off as a dirty old man, consider this:
Neutral up front is a good starting point. As to the rear, you might want to look at comparable cars. Still, yours is unique and nobody's going to have the same spring/shock combination or the same suspension compliance. So, yours will squat and raise differently, and the wheels will shift fore to aft differently, as forces are applied to them, which is the main reason for not having zero toe all-round.
As of late, all I know is AWD Subie race cars. I don't think my experiences with it would do you or the 818 community any good. I was just recently amazed at how a loose rear-end GD track car (where loose is unusual in it's own right) could be instantly transformed into neutral handling with a little softening of the rear sway bar.

Brando

10-06-2014, 08:59 PM

Today was a great day in my 818 world. For starters I passed my Brake and Light inspection. I did nothing different except took it to a different place. None of the trivial items I previously failed on were brought up. In fact they didn't even bring up one gotcha, just passed it. Awesome

Now I only need to meet with the CA REFs and this R will be plated, probably before SEMA. I know most R owners don't see merit to registering their R, but this evening, the beautiful drive down the 73 freeway, in 85 degree weather with the sun setting over the ocean begs to differ.

Something I find quite interesting is how my car alignment was setup. I knew the last place that aligned the car didn't get it right. I have spun my car out 3x times now (all on autoX tracks), every time turning left. So it turns out my left rear wheel was perfectly straight, while my right rear wheel had a whopping 1/4" toe out. I knew the original alignment had to be garbage, every time I used to lift the throttle the car pulled right, on the throttle left. Now I can drive practically hands off the wheel and she tracks perfectly, on & off throttle. I'm still taken back that the alignment was so jacked up.

I ended up going with no toe in up front and 3/16" toe in on the rear. I'm keeping maximum caster up front and currently -3 degrees camber front and -2 degrees rear. I'm considering going -2 front and -3 rear but first I want to drive with the setup as is before making another adjustment. I'm confident this car will drive like a completely different animal. I can't wait to feel the difference this is going to make on the next track day.

Thanks to Brian (Iwire) for making a harness on his first attempt, that would pass the Brake & Light inspection
Thanks to Eric Hanson for pointing me to the right place to get past this hurdle
Thanks to Wayne for fielding my last second calls/txt messages when I am in a pinch
Lastly thanks to all the forum member for all your threads, advice, expertise and being such a stellar community.

See some of you in Vegas baby yea!

Wayne Presley

10-06-2014, 09:17 PM

The 818 is sensitive to alignment so a quality alignment is paramount.
Your welcome Brandon.

Frank818

10-07-2014, 11:21 AM

The 818 is sensitive to alignment so a quality alignment is paramount.

What is a "quality" alignment? Same numbers on each side (no matter what the numbers are) or the right numbers on each side (the ones the car will be optimal at)?

iWire

10-07-2014, 11:37 AM

wOOt! Congrats on passing the inspection. Glad to help. :D

Wayne Presley

10-07-2014, 12:48 PM

What is a "quality" alignment? Same numbers on each side (no matter what the numbers are) or the right numbers on each side (the ones the car will be optimal at)?

Quality is when you ask for -2° of camber you get -2°...

Evan78

10-07-2014, 04:26 PM

Brandon - can you share names of alignment shops? I always go to Darren at West End Alignment up in Gardena because he's always done a good job and has a great reputation. The only down side is the drive from OC.

Brando

10-07-2014, 04:34 PM

The poorly done alignment was Glenns automotive in Costa Mesa.
The properly done alignment was Action Automotive in Mission Viejo.
I also strongly recommend Action Auto for your Brake and Light inspection as well

ehansen007

10-07-2014, 04:57 PM

I told you Rusty was a pushover....(and Jim doesn't give a ****). Hilarious. :rolleyes:

I'm also interested in the camber setting. I started with about 1 degree at ride height but needed to raise the car to get over speed bumps and such and now I'm looking almost positive camber. Problem is, my front adjuster is all the way in and pulling the rear in will only add more caster. Anyone else see this on the S model?

Brando

10-07-2014, 05:07 PM

No doubt Eric, thank you for sending me their way. They didn't sweat anything, super cool guys. They charged me $170 for the alignment AND Brake and Light. Compare that to my previous alignment cost of $275 and B & L of $145. Those guys are my new go-to for these kinds of tasks.

On my front camber I had to cut off 3/4" from the front adjuster threads and about 1/2" off the rear. That way I was able to bottom out the threads and get that kind of camber. Be it that they both are pretty much bottomed out it didn't leave much adjustment for caster.

Evan78

10-08-2014, 03:21 PM

matteo92065

10-08-2014, 03:51 PM

There are two "Action Auto" shops in 'Orange Area'. First one is "Action Auto Inc." in Cypress. Second one is "Action Automotive" is in Mission Viejo. I'm assuming the Mission Viejo is the location you had yours done at?
Mission Viejo is 76.62 miles, and Cypress 90.79 miles from my house.

I've talked with some local San Diego shops, they want to provide very detailed inspections.

Thanks for the tips!!!

Brando

10-08-2014, 04:12 PM

Yup, Mission Viejo was the one.

longislandwrx

10-09-2014, 02:05 PM

brando, how is your ez cool holding up.

Brando

10-09-2014, 02:27 PM

brando, how is your ez cool holding up.
Besides a few gouges from mishandled tools the ez cool looks good as new. It hasn't delaminated whatsoever.

longislandwrx

10-09-2014, 03:10 PM

cool, I found a roll at my father in laws house from my Vega. Was thinking about cutting pieces out for the front firewall.

FFRSpec72

10-09-2014, 05:27 PM

brando, how is your ez cool holding up.

I can tell you I had this on my challenge car and after 1 season of racing it was pretty much trashed, I have removed it (which is a real pain), not again for me.

Brando

10-09-2014, 06:12 PM

What does trashed look like? I am not seeing any signs of deterioration yet.

FFRSpec72

10-09-2014, 06:16 PM

What does trashed look like? I am not seeing any signs of deterioration yet.

Challenge cars have an issue with blow by and thus kick out oil and the oil and high engine bay temps just eat away the facing of the ez cool, along with all the rocks and tire tread hitting it

Brando

10-11-2014, 03:46 PM

Got my dyno today and realized how lucky I am. Turns out a combination of too much timing plus a split hose between my turbo pressure line and the boost controller, had my car throwing all the boost it can at the motor. Sounds like the Red FFR car, but mine was the boost controller not the wastegate causing the issue. I'm very fortunate not to have blown my motor, and had I used pump gas probably would have. 101 octane kept this mishap from being catastrophic.

The first 400HP pull was as the car drove in. It started leaning out and they stopped it right there and we started troubleshooting. You can see it really start leaning out at 5k rpm with the prior tune.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110263_zps352130eb.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110263_zps352130eb.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110262_zps24f1252f.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110262_zps24f1252f.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag204/tekbroker/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110264_zps9399b3ce.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/tekbroker/media/BRANDON-ALIEN/Pictures/818/PA110264_zps9399b3ce.jpg.html)

I did (2) 3 gear runs and logged them. There are 3 worksheets, one uphill, one downhill and the last is my log prior to the tune.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10w_nTPTyDWeRQKIODDMr3SAFiYhqk85ZIU7zAJ5uWM8/edit?usp=sharing

Things are back in order and I am at 330/315. We had to stop at 330 because the MAF was maxed out. Next on the list is a larger diameter intake tube for the MAF and it should be good up to 360ish HP.
We also did a ECU boost cutoff level of 2.4 bar.

It feels nice and strong through the entire range now, with no noticeable drop off in power like before. I can't lie though, that 400HP felt pretty darn nice while I had it.

longislandwrx

10-11-2014, 04:40 PM

Powah! PO103! Excessive MAF voltage!

glad you dodged a bullet. Have you considered ditching the MAF for speed density?

Frank818

10-11-2014, 04:55 PM

Good work!!!

Scargo

10-11-2014, 05:44 PM

Speed Density! YES.
Not to toot my own horn, but consider doing something like what I did for 395/393 (http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&sat=0&cb=0&dgr=1&smm=0&sg=1&runid1=2382&rgb1=000000255):
Light bowl and runner ported heads matched to TGVs and manifold. Racing valve job, ie, radiused exhaust seats/Manley springs and titanium retainers
TGV delete modification
Coated CP pistons
Blouch Dominator 2.5 XT-R with 3” air inlet and 8cm turbine A/R (probably could do better but this is a great turbo)
Injector Dynamics fuel injectors- 1000cc
Perrin crank pulley
Walbro 255 fuel pump
KS Tech MegaMAF 73mm Big MAF Cold Air Intake (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=519&BEFID=96477&acode=530&code=530&aon=&crawler_id=1912695&dealId=KkEEA-1NXB70DCpFJeAOrg%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-57618-1854-0%2F2%3Fkwid%3D1%26mtid%3D570%26crlp%3D1_240251%26 linkin_id%3D%7Blinkin_id%7D%26sortbid%3D%7Bbidamou nt%7D%26fitem%3D271322900273%26mt_id%3D570%26mpre% 3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike %252F271322900273%26mid%3D446528%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Perrin%20Cold%20Air%20Intake%20Cai%203%22 %20Big%20Maf%20Subaru%20Brz%20%2F%20Scion%20Fr-s%20%28red%20Wrinkle%29&MerchantID=446528&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=141011050759&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=324.0&SKU=271322900273)(type-TXS for TurboXS, FMS, & AVO FMIC) with Stock MAF sensor, Denso#22680AA380*
Agency Power 3” polished aluminum hard turbo inlet
Grimmspeed EBCS
Tial Blow-Off Valve (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=5316&m=1348475211&q=n&rdgt=1412958226&it=1413390226&et=1413563026&priceret=178.16&pg=~~3&k=167c604391f143c48046f4dfdce47f30&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamazon%2Ecom%2Fdp%2FB008FW8 BS8%2Fref%3Dasc%5Fdf%5FB008FW8BS83353810%3Fsmid%3D A15DTMM40CG6VX%26tag%3Dpgmp%2D1585%2D01%2D20%26lin kCode%3Ddf0%26creative%3D395109%26creativeASIN%3DB 008FW8BS8&st=feed&mt=~~~~~~~~n~~~)
NGK Iridium plugs: one step colder
Full Race twin Scroll headers and appropriate turbo
Setrab 12x12x2 oil coolerwith Mocal thermostatic bypass valve
Canton 90 (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=519&BEFID=96477&acode=530&code=530&aon=&crawler_id=1912695&dealId=cOUzB-ZjzBeAUW6nuIlwGA%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-57618-1854-0%2F2%3Fkwid%3D1%26mtid%3D570%26crlp%3D1_240251%26 linkin_id%3D%7Blinkin_id%7D%26sortbid%3D%7Bbidamou nt%7D%26fitem%3D220514293801%26mt_id%3D570%26mpre% 3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike %252F220514293801%26mid%3D446528%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Canton%20302%20351w%20Ford%2090%20Degree% 20Water%20Neck%2080-056&MerchantID=446528&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=141011050759&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=145.0&SKU=220514293801) degree rotating remote oil filter adapter (22-597)
Canton Remote Oil Filter mount (I run a big K&N HP-3001 Performance Oil Filter)
Accusump, two quart
KillerB aluminum pan, baffle plate and pickup
JEGS vented catch can

This has been a very reliable engine, even after the wastegate started sticking and I went from 24 PSI with the tune to spikes of over 26!
*I list the MAF though it is not used with a SD tune...

The power is addicting.

Brando

10-11-2014, 07:14 PM

Nice call on both. My engine was throwing EDC's and they were in fact PO103, excessive MAF voltage.
Church Auto also recommended a speed density tune and before today I had never been educated as to what they are or how they worked. He had a 2002 to which he did a speed density tune, but for whatever reason the ROM wouldn't load as a baseline. He needs a 4 hour block to do it from the ground up so I need to reschedule if i go in that direction. So i'm left with the decision If I should refine the MAF/MAP sensors and setups or go with a speed density tune next time I see him

Do you really think speed density is the way to go moving forward or should i maximize what I can get out of the MAF by increasing diameter and adjusting the tune accordingly? I'm a bit stricken with the HP bug at the moment, hopefully it doesn't stick around too long.

Scargo- How is it your MAF with 24PSI was fine by mine is at capacity at 19PSI. Is it the MegaMAF 73mm? We had to pull boost down to 16psi in the upper RPM's to keep everything in it's happy place. I would love to increase to boost, the motor can obviously handle it, but until I figure out something with the MAF i'm stuck at 330HP. Was that on pump, race or E85?

metalmaker12

10-11-2014, 09:55 PM

From my experience and my tuners and many other tuners subaru speed density is an option, but tends to be the less reliable option with many more quirks than a maf tune. The oem ecu was set up for maf and changing all the tables to SD and getting it just right can be more of a challenge than your current issue. I would stay maf and not look to make more than 360whp and rather a reliable setup. SD seems to require much more maintance on table adjustment and is a bigger pain for a none tuner who relies on others to tune.

Nice call on both. My engine was throwing EDC's and they were in fact PO103, excessive MAF voltage.
Church Auto also recommended a speed density tune and before today I had never been educated as to what they are or how they worked. He had a 2002 to which he did a speed density tune, but for whatever reason the ROM wouldn't load as a baseline. He needs a 4 hour block to do it from the ground up so I need to reschedule if i go in that direction. So i'm left with the decision If I should refine the MAF/MAP sensors and setups or go with a speed density tune next time I see him

Do you really think speed density is the way to go moving forward or should i maximize what I can get out of the MAF by increasing diameter and adjusting the tune accordingly? I'm a bit stricken with the HP bug at the moment, hopefully it doesn't stick around too long.

Scargo- How is it your MAF with 24PSI was fine by mine is at capacity at 19PSI. Is it the MegaMAF 73mm? We had to pull boost down to 16psi in the upper RPM's to keep everything in it's happy place. I would love to increase to boost, the motor can obviously handle it, but until I figure out something with the MAF i'm stuck at 330HP. Was that on pump, race or E85?

Scargo

10-12-2014, 09:05 AM

With a Speed Density tune you do not use the MAF sensor's input.
I added to my list the 3"OD (or 73mm ID) "hard" turbo inlet from Agency Power. I cut off the two superfluous appendages and welded close the holes. ;). I run this EJ257 motor without spacers. Without the appendages, I can slip it out without pulling the manifold (for what it's worth).
I have had discussions with experienced folks and read quite a bit about power thresholds that demarcate a safe and reliable HP range for track use. Without going nuts (meaning: spending inordinate sums of money) or employing engine mystics or voodoo, 460~475 HP at the crank or 405~415 rear wheel HP (based on 12% parasitic loss) is my guess, and coincidentally where FFR had their red car's HP. This is around where 8:5 to 1 CR, 21-22 pounds of boost and 93 octane premium gas stops you.
On one particular motor, with a stock block, my tuner wanted me to be fairly safe so he limited the boost to 21.6.

C.Plavan

10-12-2014, 10:15 AM

Brando-

Remember that the more HP- the higher class you will be eventually running. There is no reason to run 400HP unless you want to eventually run the Super Unlimited class with NASA. There are alot more things to consider than just HP.

Brando

10-12-2014, 11:23 AM

If I was to get confident and fast enough to go with ST1 then I think 405HP was the correct power/weight. Giving it some thought, I am not sure ST1 is for me until a season or two of ST2/ST3 is under my belt.
I am surely not racing any of them this upcoming season. I need another year + of racing this car, let alone getting the car race prepped, before I even consider it.
If finances permit, the goal is buying a second powerplant such as a 2.5 built for torque ~270HP and targeting ST2 for the 2016 season.

At any rate I already did my diligence and made my decision with tune. I ordered a wider MAF tube from VCP and that will give me a little room to grow should I choose to want another 30 or so HP. I decided i'm not building the motor past that point for the sake of my trans, my motor and my health.

And I am with you the HP comment, but I am allowed to let HP get me a little punch drunk occasionally. :)

07FIREBLADE

10-13-2014, 02:59 AM

Congrats on the tune and getting your car straightened out. Did Kevin do your tune at Garage Tuning? If so, your results from them is making me a bit nervous. They built my motor and I get a free tune once my cars up and ready. Might need to rethink them if everything is so out of line. Were your problem because of defective parts or improper installation or a combo of both?

flynntuna

10-15-2014, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Brando
Eric, by oil canning are you referring to that nasty pop from the floors sheet metal every time I step in and out of my car? I have been putting 90lb of weight on it for weeks with no luck.
So i just need to torch it? Nice tip.

Dude, congrats on being the first legit street legal 818 in CA.
I am so close. REFS took all sorts of pictures and Sacramento is reviewing the details. I'm waiting for a call any day with the results.

Flynntuna:
Your going SB100 right, why do they need to go to Sacramento to review anything? Aren't they going to let you register by body style? I thought it would be pretty straight forward. Hope they don't jack you around, best of luck.

Brando:
I don't want to Hijack Erics thread, but will briefly say...the guy scanned all my documents, took a bunch of pictures, and told me it's not up to him, its up to Sacramento. He told me because they have not had an 818 go through their system yet, it goes to Sacramento for review. He also noted it being an R might make things more difficult. It will take 1-3 weeks he said. The guy was not cool and had no interest in make life easy for me. Yes I am going by body style SB100, but before I can even get that far it has to pass go.

Flynntuna:
I wonder if the GTM guys had this problem, reading the law from a lay man's prospective it seems that since it doesn't resemble any production car the 1969 designation should apply. But what do I know.... This just is part of the love-hate feelings toward California.

wleehendrick

10-16-2014, 10:39 AM

It seems that the Sacramento review Brandon's being subjected to is not SB100 classification (this should be no problem, as George mentioned, since the GTM gets a 1960 designation due to the body not resembling a production car) but the fact that he has an R, with no wipers and short, non-DOT glass windshield, roll cage, etc... that makes the referee uneasy to sign off on.

Brando

10-16-2014, 12:15 PM

^ What he said.
SB100 is only a piece of the REF's BAR Specially Constructed Vehicle inspection. If/when Sacramento approves I will have to return to the REF and at that point will get to choose body style for the SB100 smog exemption. At my first appointment I didn't even get to the point where I got to specify body style as my preference, but that will be a sweet moment as I watch him put EXEMPT in that smog field and rivet the exemption tag onto the frame.

I reserved "818R" as my license place, I paid my registration/tax/title fees ($1,300), and jumped through a few hoops. It's my last step in the process and getting shut down now will not sit will. If they do deny me, they will have to provide me with reasons, of which i'm sure each one I will overcome. Hopefully the windshield isn't on that list.

Since its is actually the CHP's job to inspect the windshield and wipers, which I sneaked by on, i'm guessing it won't be an issue. It's a factory windshield after all, and i see cars with mini windshields driving around all the time. I highly recommend officer White of the Santa Ana CHP office for your inspection & VIN #. He is a fan of FFR and your best bet for that part of the process.