818R "Glynman Style" [Archive] - Factory Five Forums

Scargo

11-27-2013, 10:36 AM

#094024
Was telling someone recently that it was always someone else's car I was helping build and make custom parts for. While not entirely true, I've never built a kit car of my own, though I helped with my brother's show car/drag car, VW powered dune buggy and I've done some mods to my STI. The front bumper facia is my work; modifying a cheap FRP part. Prototyping and custom work was my life before retiring.I used to race in SCCA. Then I did some Solo and autocross. For the last three years I have been doing mostly HPDE; first in an '11 STI and currently in my '08 STI. This was in September at Watkins Glen.
23661
I was there at WGI to examine the 818 and see it first raced by John George. Killing everything on the track. That's when I got the bug.:p
I will not buy a donor car. I was building an "Alpha motor" for my STI when I decided to buy an 818R. That motor will now go in the 818R. It can easily produce 450 WHP and spin 8K. I'm not sure where I will start out, horsepower-wise, but I'm thinking 400whp. I may benefit from a smaller turbo. So, bear with me as I try to strike a balance of silly fast and something I think I can handle. It's been a while since I drove a RWD car like the RX-7 R1 I had in 1993. Transitioning from a 8:1 to 5:1 P/W ratio car and going to RWD may be exciting.
I am not intending to cut many corners on this build. I'm getting an unpainted R so I can modify it at will. Some mods might be a little outside the box for some who are using a donor. I can machine parts, TIG weld, fiberglass, cast parts and paint. I have an engine harness, but I intend to wire everything else from scratch.
I want to have fun building this and have it be an expression of my taste and style. I may save a buck here and go crazy there. I am still taking in everything involved in the building process. I've been reading, yet I think I have just scratched the surface, so I may have some strange questions and ideas. I didn't finish my education in engineering... but there's been a life of experiential learning.;)
I look forward to the input from others here in the forum. I hope to share in the experience.

818R Build ideas, parts and goals:
Raised, modified MR2 Shifter
Race approved fuel cell, or cells, probably mounted on passenger side and behind a firewall.
Fire suppression system.
Custom ECU. No ABS. Custom wiring harness. Small 60 amp alternator and low-speed pulley. 4-6 pound Li battery.
Racepak dash/data-logger
Sparco Pro 2000 seat
Quick release steering wheel. Hub TBD. Wheel: OMP Targa
Exhaust: TBD. I am thinking I will get undermount setup from Full Race and create a spot for the turbo in front of the engine.
Stoptech BBK (big brake kit) and bias valve. Front brake ductwork Backing plate mod.
Custom pedal box.
Custom, aftermarket steering rack
Fabricate rear diffuser and front splitter. Buy wing. Same or similar to FFR offering.
Raw frame will get red powdercoat. Thinking red vinyl with white stripes
Gearbox and LSD:
Probably dog box 5MT with stiffeners and racing LSD
Wheels and Tires:
Am looking in the range of 18x9.5~10, 38-45 ET for the rear and 17x8.25~9, 40-45 ET for the front.
225~245 front tires and 255~275 rear tires. Hoosier or Goodrich DOT.
Considering Enkei PF01,RPF1, Volk Racing TE37. I like the looks of the Weds TC-105N. They are light but I haven't priced them and sizes/offsets are limited. I'd like light, strong wheels, preferably with even-spaced spokes. Not over $600 each. Submit suggestion!
Update: I have since fitted the body and decided to try these for the first round. WDS179TC105N511449TS 17x9 Wedsport TC105N 5x114.3 ET49 Titanium Silver, for the front and WDS1795TC105N511432TS 17x9.5 Wedsport TC105N 5x114.3 ET32 Titanium Silver for the rear.
Continental DOT3 slicks: 225/45 and 245/45 are fitted.
Suspension:
Aluminum STI lower control arms (perhaps '11 + design) and fully adjustable rear suspension.
Considering MCS and other two-way racing shocks.
Custom tubular sway bar for front. Rear TBD
Update: I have made my own LCAs and am using an S2000 spindle. I've saved about six pounds per side, not including brakes.
Engine (almost everything is here, ready to assemble):
V-flanged twin-scroll Blouch 1.5 XTR?
Update: now will start with stock GR STi turbo and plastic manifold.
Twin side mounted A/A intercoolers
ARP head studs
Honey Badger 2.3L 3MI destroker DAVCS engine, Ported W25 heads.
Dailey dry sump
Bosch 044 inline pump and inline filter
Aeromotive 13109 A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator.
Boomba fuel block and rails. 3/8" fuel supply and return line.
KS Tech MegaMAF (73mm Big MAF CAI) (hybrid Speed Density)
Ported stock, 60mm throttle body
Tial Q Vent-To-Atmosphere Blow Off Valve (spring rate unknown)
Grimmspeed EBCS
Perrin Crank Pulley
Custom Ron Davis radiator.
Small alternator and low-speed pulley on custom mount
Setrab oil cooler, Mocal thermal bypass valve, Canton Racing 90 Degree Rotating Remote Oil Filter Adapter (or complete bypass of this area), and Canton remote filter block.
JEGS breather/A/OS tank for engine venting.
12-'14 postscript: As of August '14 I realized I needed a sensible, purpose-built motor for the car. I'm in the process of building a destroked motor which will be at 2.34 liters and make about 270 WHP for NASA ST-2.

JeromeS13

11-27-2013, 10:41 AM

You're crazy, Glyn!

Scargo

11-27-2013, 11:06 AM

You're crazy, Glyn!
Por que no? Why not be crazy? I'm having fun.

JeromeS13

11-27-2013, 11:12 AM

If I had the budget, I would do the same thing. However, I'm a poor young guy *trying* to stay out of debt... This car completely ruined that effort, though... Haha

wleehendrick

11-27-2013, 12:24 PM

This will be a fun thread to watch!
23663

Frank818

11-27-2013, 12:25 PM

2011 STI alu arms would fit?

Nice project BTW. :)

AZPete

11-27-2013, 01:05 PM

Yup, certified crazy. I look forward to watching this thread. When is your 818R scheduled to ship?

Scargo

11-27-2013, 01:40 PM

Not sure how the geometry would work out, but I could make them fit!:rolleyes: I asked (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12341-Use-late-model-STI-front-lower-control-arms&p=127394) here and have not had a reply. It would require a new rear mount at a minimum.
I read that it increased caster over the '08 STI. The new, larger flexible joint is quite strong. When Phoenix Racing was road racing Subies (SRRT), they told me they were not going to change out that flex pivot piece for anything solid. As to how it relates to an '07, I don't know yet. Might push the track out if nothing else. If someone could measure an '07 arm I could figure it out.

Ship schedule: I don't know. Don't know what to say... Secret? Might be before summer?

Grintch

11-27-2013, 01:50 PM

Guard Transmission? Website only shows Porsche parts/applications.

No STi hub/bearing/5x114 upgrade? Would seem a natural to allow you to use at least some of your current wheels and get rid of the rather weak wheel bearings in the 5x100 hubs.

Scargo

11-27-2013, 01:54 PM

Guard Transmission? Website only shows Porsche parts/applications. I know. It must be a well-guarded secret! They do them. They are supposed to be top-notch and $$.

Frank818

11-27-2013, 02:59 PM

weak wheel bearings in the 5x100 hubs.

Didn't hear about this one yet.
I hope nothing to worry about for street driving?

Scargo

11-27-2013, 03:15 PM

I think not. My friend just switched to 5x114 this year, so he's run the smaller ones for years on the track; and he does a lot of days. My buddies say to replace wheel bearings every year or two when used on the track. I've done 20 + days with the bearings in my '08 and don't hear anything.

JeromeS13

11-27-2013, 03:32 PM

Didn't hear about this one yet.
I hope nothing to worry about for street driving?

With the curb weight of the 818, I'm pretty sure the bearings will be fine.

longislandwrx

11-27-2013, 04:43 PM

Doesn't seem to0 crazy... seems manageable. what would be your reasoning to reverse the intake?

Scargo

11-28-2013, 09:05 AM

Doesn't seem to0 crazy... seems manageable. what would be your reasoning to reverse the intake?
To be different? It does seem to be a non-starter other than it might shorten up the length of pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body if I do go ahead with a front-mount turbo.

D K

11-28-2013, 10:19 AM

Where do you plan on racing this thing?

Scargo

11-28-2013, 10:52 AM

Where do you plan on racing this thing? "THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant (http://www.lecircuit.com/) soon (on my bucket list).
I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.

C.Plavan

11-28-2013, 12:13 PM

"THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant (http://www.lecircuit.com/) soon (on my bucket list).
I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.

Consider COTA a bucket list item. I just raced it last month (Averaged 8.4 MPG pulling the race trailer from Central CA...$$$$). It was an awesome experience. The facility is amazing.

Xusia

11-28-2013, 12:37 PM

For the uninitiated, COTA = Circuit Of The Americas?

Scargo

11-28-2013, 01:25 PM

For the uninitiated, COTA = Circuit Of The Americas? Well duh, bubba! Us racers don't even give a second thought to spitting out WGI, LRP NHMP, VIR, NJMP, SP, etc. I know those because I have lived in the NE for 11 years!:o
I kinda feel sorry for you. Doesn't seem to be many, if any big name tracks around you. I once thought of moving to the NW...

I wonder how much I'd have to pay to have my 818 shipped to COTA and back, vs gas and expenses for towing?

Mitch Wright

11-28-2013, 09:01 PM

You will enjoy Tremblant, worth the trip.

Xusia

11-28-2013, 09:19 PM

LOL - Don't feel to bad for me. Big names don't make a track great (There are 2 tracks in state, and several others not too far). Plenty of really good roads up here also, which where I do the vast majority of my riding. From a cornering perspective, I live a rich life, BELIEVE ME! :)

Scargo

11-28-2013, 09:55 PM

Xusia, I've already lived a rich life! I now get to drive up and down the Sunshine Coast in BC all summer. Just wished I had a little better car when I'm out there. It's a 2010 Prius. Still, I can drift it and get the alarm bells to go off.:p No, I didn't say that. No, I never go around curves fast.:cool:
I've had about a dozen bikes. Still miss them, but feel I'm alive because I got off them. I was just about out of cat lives. Snow skiing fast makes up for them in a strange way.

D K

11-29-2013, 04:41 PM

What I meant was which class?

Currently, the 818 is classed in STR3. With your horsepower, your car won't be legal.
Are you planning to run in unlimited?

D

"THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant (http://www.lecircuit.com/) soon (on my bucket list).
I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.

Scargo

11-29-2013, 06:36 PM

As I said, I will not start out racing right away and I may not do W2W again. If I do, I think I will want to be up in STR1. Just guessing at this point. I'm not sure how much of a RWD car I can handle, to be frank. What I've done to date is turn 2nd place level TT2 times at WGI in my STI. Looks like John George did a TT1 record of 02:01.1 at WGI, in the Factory Five car. I think I will be looking at TTs to begin with. I think I will have multiple tunes when I head out to the track. I don't know if I will ever crank this motor up to what it's capable of and am wondering if I would be better served with a BW EFR 7670.

Scargo

12-17-2013, 12:10 PM

Feel like I'm waiting on Godot... Not much to report except I'm going dry sump. Which means I will switch over the Killer Bee stuff to the STI and I will have a Moroso oil pan for sale.

I will see a Miller 200DX arrive before Christmas. That will be fun and exciting. I can do stuff to the STI and work on pieces for the 818, like finish the NA intake so it accepts late model fuel rails and injectors.

Scargo

01-17-2014, 11:19 PM

Not much to report. I have been studying the NASA class options and figure I can make up to 417 WHP and still be in ST1.
I've been looking at whether or not to run the Borg Warner EFR 8374 turbo I have or something smaller to get the low-end grunt. Using BW's matchbot I came up with some interesting numbers.

Engine speed RPM
3500
4000
5000
6000
7000
8000

Engine Power
Hp
380~421
430~470
469
469
470
469

Engine Torque
lb-ft
570~632
560~617
493
411
352
308

Looks to me it is still the best paired, twin-scroll turbo for what I'm trying to do. At 5,250 it's maxed out at 470 each which equates to about 413WHP and 470 FPT. I will run 100 octane gas. It's at 28 PSI below 4,600 RPMs (but otherwise runs 12-26 PSI). What I found astounding is that at 2,600 RPM it will have more torque than a 2013, Stage 2 motor. The ranges are what I think a minimum~maximum would be based on efficiency variables.

I also got a neat little alternator that only weights seven pounds.

RandyB

01-18-2014, 03:07 PM

I'm intrigued by this.

Are these torque numbers for a gasoline or a diesel engine? If gasoline, it would be interesting to know how they get the torque so high.

With the R version, did Factory five give any limits on horsepower the frame is designed to support?

Scargo

01-18-2014, 07:46 PM

Here is the Matchbot link. (http://www.3k-warner.de//aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.5&CID=152.55&altitude=250&baro=14.604&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=83s75&pt1_rpm=3700&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=28&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0&pt1_ipd=0.1&pt1_mbp=0&pt1_ce=69&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=1.88&pt1_pw=7.85&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4000&pt2_ve=100&pt2_boost=28&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=0.05&pt2_ce=72&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.94&pt2_pw=12.94&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5000&pt3_ve=110&pt3_boost=21.3&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=0.1&pt3_ce=77&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1.9&pt3_pw=26.77&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=6000&pt4_ve=110&pt4_boost=16.7&pt4_ie=93&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=76&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=1.82&pt4_pw=32.53&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=7000&pt5_ve=105&pt5_boost=14.9&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=0.7&pt5_ce=73&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=1.82&pt5_pw=34.08&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=8000&pt6_ve=100&pt6_boost=14&pt6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=0.8&pt6_ce=70&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.86&pt6_pw=36.06&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) See for yourself. I will say that this projection may be optimistic for efficiencies, however it seems doable and only requires 28 PSI boost for the low end of the RPM range (if you choose to put your foot in it and use it). It also requires the use of fire power with 100 octane gas because of that high PSI low-end boost. That necessity for more than 93 octane ends just below 5,000 RPM, when boost drops below 23 PSI. That gives me over 3,000 RPM to operate in that are maxed out at the limit of legal WHP for ST1.
The compressor and turbine efficiencies are excellent with this turbo combination of a compressor that can deliver 79 pounds per minute and a .92 turbine A/R.

I have not discussed this with my tuner, but it may be that I can have more torque/power available than the car can use at those lower RPMs. I will seldom be racing in that RPM range anyway unless I were to lose a gear. Still, I don't mind mixing in a little Torco for the bottom end.
This is new territory for me. I welcome any insight that anyone has.

As to power limits of the chassis, all I know is that the driver, John George , said he thought it needed some more power. I think they were at 370 something WHP at WGI. I can get up near 420 and (using ballast), still be legal. Direct answer: I don't know. I will be adding some gusseting.

RandyB

01-19-2014, 10:55 AM

Does the boost from this turbo really peak at low RPM and drop off when you get over 4000 RPM? I'm used to seeing boost climb with RPM increase.

Scargo

01-19-2014, 02:56 PM

It's all in the use of the wastegate. Initially, I am maxing out boost for 100 octane gas and then cutting back boost after about 4,700 RPM to keep the motor at 418 wheel horsepower. I'm doing this strictly to stay in NASA's ST1's P/W ratio of 5.5:1.
This turbo is huge. It's capable of 79 lbs/min. It can make over 700 HP!:p Though I am going dry sump, and there should be some good efficiences from that, I am not building the engine for handling sustained 28 PSI and it would be insane to do so. I could be making 565 at the wheels however, on the same gas. Again, nobody can make a stock-block motor and drivetrain components stay together very long doing that, and I would be in unlimited class.

Having said that, I built my STI's current motor based on a new Subaru short block that I put CP pistons in. I lightly ported the heads then had a pro racing valve job topped off with Manley springs and Ti retainers. I did port matching throughout and run Full Race headers. This was tuned at EFI to make 395WHP/393TQ (http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/index.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&sat=0&cb=0&dgr=1&smm=0&sg=1&runid1=2382&rgb1=000000255) on 100 octane gas (Torco added) @ 24.5 PSI. This is my STI's track tune. That's what it was dyno'd for, but when I took it to the track something happened which allowed the boost to momentarily spike to 28. I'm assuming it is a wastegate controller issue. I never dealt with it. The car has been a screamer. It has done a 2:09 at WGI on a mediocre suspension and brakes. I've since fixed the weaknesses and added aero.
Since that engine seems perfectly fine after a pretty hard season I am inclined to go with what I have theorized as a boost profile on the Matchbot for the 818 engine, until my tuner shakes his head and tells me I'm crazy.

Scargo

03-29-2014, 08:36 AM

OS Giken racing differentials will arrive next week. Two for the STi and one for the 818. They are all getting special tuning.
Five weeks till I pick up my kit!

Scargo

03-31-2014, 03:23 PM

Impulse purchase today. Picked up tranny as planned. This is for the STI. It will become a close-ratio six-speed with the OS Giken diff. Now I have the one in the car I can sell. I hear it is very desirable for drag racers because it's so tall by fourth.
When I asked if seller had anything else he had rear STi 5x114 drivetrain parts I wanted for the 818. Score! Now I have uprights, hubs and Brembo rotors.
Uh, ... why is it the STi stuff will not fit the 818?

Xusia

03-31-2014, 03:27 PM

I love how you ask that AFTER you buy them!! LOL

Scargo

03-31-2014, 03:54 PM

As I recall, the Sti, besides being 5 X 114, is too wide to fit the shocks or some-such nonsense. I am not using the Konis. Is it the splines? I'm building a race car here. I can do anything!

Xusia

03-31-2014, 04:26 PM

I have no idea about the hub itself (does it mount the same as a WRX?), but I'm pretty sure you are talking custom axles (different spline count vs. WRX if I recall, so the FFR axles won't work).

Scargo

04-21-2014, 09:59 AM

About to take delivery of a lift!
http://www.bendpak.com/XPR-9F-Two-Post-Lift.png?h=349

FFRSpec72

04-21-2014, 10:04 AM

About to take delivery of a lift!

I would ask for a different car

Scargo

04-21-2014, 10:16 AM

Too good a deal! Couldn't find (a good pic) one without the car... Perhaps I should Photoshop it and repost?

Scargo

05-03-2014, 04:46 PM

094024 now in Snail Racing's garage. :D
I have to finish the STi and get it back on the track before I can focus on the 818R.

metros

05-03-2014, 07:07 PM

Congrats on getting your R into the garage.

Still looking for wheel suggestions?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/danhurwitz/Products/Wheels/Mach%20V%20Wheels/AtFIRM1_zps487b38f7.jpg~original

17x9 +42 front - 17.8 lbs
18x9.5 +42 Rear - 19.0 lbs

These are the wheels that I'm going to be using. Reasonably priced too.

Scargo

06-14-2014, 12:26 PM

I like the looks of wheels with more spokes. The Enkei PF01 are my style though I'm still open for something with evenly spaced spokes.
In a couple of days I will receive most of my backordered parts. Still outstanding are the headlights (July 4 estimate) and the windscreen (no est.). That's a 42+ day wait for some parts and like many, when you call, they amazingly are just about to ship your parts out!

07FIREBLADE

06-15-2014, 06:08 AM

42+ days for backordered parts I would kill for that. I'm at 4+ months on the headlights and just got my BO gas tank 2 weeks ago. Still waiting on fuel tank connectors.

Mechie3

06-15-2014, 07:10 AM

I have stock headlights I'm not using if you can get FFR to credit you for the ones they owe you.

Scargo

06-15-2014, 07:46 AM

I have stock headlights I'm not using You have Spyder Auto headlights, correct? Did you do the mods you spoke of? Why the Spyders? Please share a link to the ones you are using. Perhaps I want to see if I can get a credit on the ones owed me.

I received my tank yesterday and am supposed to get all fittings in a day or two. Anyone need/want mine? I will be using a racing cell.

metalmaker12

06-15-2014, 09:45 AM

17x9 up front might be to wide, or damn close to rubbing rim, cause you need to run 215's max , I think 17x8 with a 30-35 offset will work well. The rear is a bit different and I think an 18x9, 9.5 or even 10.0 could fit with a 40-30 offset and maybe 255-275 tire width max.

Scargo

06-15-2014, 12:18 PM

My front suspension design is still inchoate. I want to do something other than the usual, which will make it uncharted territory. Probably moving things out, where flaring will be required.
Would be sweet if I could run my STi's 18x10.5" Enkei (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=enkei) RPF-01's (38ET) and 285X30 Hoosiers on the rear. Still think flares are in my future.

Evan78

06-19-2014, 03:00 PM

Congrats on getting your R into the garage.

Still looking for wheel suggestions?

17x9 +42 front - 17.8 lbs
18x9.5 +42 Rear - 19.0 lbs

These are the wheels that I'm going to be using. Reasonably priced too.Unless there's an update somewhere else or I've got the wrong car, those wheel sizes appear to be incorrect. This page on GRM's website (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2013-factory-five-818/hot-wheels-818/) says

Front:
215/40R17 tires on 17x7.0-inch wheels, +35mm offset

Rear:
255/35R18 tires on 18x8.75-inch wheels, +35mm offset

XXR 535 wheels
Advan Neova AD08R tires

Edit: Oops, sorry. I had the right car but the wrong wheels. It looks like they used Mach V wheels first (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2013-factory-five-818/wheels-and-tires-our-818/)as shown in your photo and specs before switching to wheels and tires I mentioned. They don't explain the reason for the switch, but they do say "The only problem is this: we have no idea if these wheels and tires will fit on the 818. Hopefully we won’t have too much trouble with fitment, as fiberglass fenders are awfully hard to roll."

Tires in that photo are Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 R tires in 255/35R18 and 235/40R17.

C.Plavan

06-19-2014, 06:08 PM

They really need to cut out the side vents.... and the front vents on the GRM car. Looks like crap IMHO

Mechie3

06-19-2014, 07:44 PM

Forget where I bought them. LM performance maybe? Got them on sale for....$200 isn? Have to consult my spreadsheet. Didn't mod them yet. Maybe a winter project. I liked that they were projectors with led DRL instead of halos.

Grm front vents are cutout. They just used a white mesh and no trim. Looks a bit odd. No side vents makes those humps look like an unfinished body kit.

Rasmus

10-10-2014, 01:44 PM

Glyn. Gimme your Motor, Location, and Turbo Stats and I'll run it though BorgWarner's Matchbot for you.

I need.
Displacement
RPM Limit (High)
Boost Target
Turbo
Your Altitude
Average Air Temp the car is expected to run in.
Fuel Type
Intercooler Type, A2A, A2W?

I'll post the link and give you one of my little interpretations.

Scargo

10-10-2014, 02:49 PM

Glyn. Gimme your Motor, Location, and Turbo Stats and I'll run it though BorgWarner's Matchbot for you.
I'll post the link and give you one of my little interpretations.
Would love to see what you get.
Displacement: 2.34L
RPM Limit (High):9000 perhaps 8500
Boost Target: Unknown... would like to stay under 21-22 and just use 93 octane premium gas
Turbo: Garrett GTX 2867 (unknown which A/R I will use)
Your Altitude: 300
Average Air Temp the car is expected to run in: 80F
Fuel Type: 93 octane premium gas
Intercooler Type: ATA

Here's the kicker. I want to not exceed 270 RWH (for ST2), so that's about 305 at the crank? I want to make max torque. I plan on running DVACS engine with stock cams and perhaps punch up the compression a tad.
Not sure on the intake. May run a LGT/WRX plastic manifold to reduce lag. Twin scroll v-band housing on exhaust.

The 8374 I have has a .82 A/R housing and is for my BIG HP motor for the STi. Big valves and 270 cams. I will limit it to 430-450 AWHP. I calculate it can make 400 FPT at 3600 RPM, but it's a 3100 pound car and I'm 165.

Rasmus

10-10-2014, 05:44 PM

Turbo: Garrett GTX 2867 (unknown which A/R I will use)

Oh man. I can't run a Garret/Honeywell turbo though the BorgWarner app. Coke don't mix with Pepsi!

Rasmus

10-11-2014, 10:59 AM

Okay here's an old anaysis I did with that turbo. It's not as good as the BW MatchBot but that app uses many more variables...

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/RasmusHansen/Factory%20Five%20Racing%20818R/Airflowthrougha2334LwithGTX2867R.png
Here's the GTX2867R compressor map under a 2.334L motor at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's. At 2000 RPM the turbo's starting to get past the surge line (beginning to spool up). Turbo's full spooled at 3000RPM for Pressure Ratios 2.0 - 3.0. Peak HP should hit about 5000 - 5500 RPM, pushing 46 lb/min (460 hp +/- 5%) at PR 2.7. The GTX2867R will exceed it's choke line (a.k.a. gas out) at 7250 RPM pushing 36 lb/min at a PR of 1.5.

I'll limit it to 2.5 Pressure Ratio at Sea Level (1.5 bar/~22 psi). GTX2867R turbo feed air by a 2.334L motor
First off it looks the compressor map looks to based off a turbo running an Anti-Surge compressor housing. Just basing that on the characteristic 'S bend" in the Surge Line.
1500 RPM - 0.0 bar 5 lb/min of air pumped , 48 hp;
1600 RPM - 0.3 bar 6 lb/min, 57 hp, boost just starting. Next we walk up the surge line to...
2000 RPM - 1.2 bar 14 lb/min, 133 hp;
2250 RPM - 1.5 bar 18 lb/min 171 hp, target boost reached;
3000 RPM - 1.5 bar 25 lb/min 238 hp;
4000 RPM - 1.5 bar 33 lb/min, 314 hp;
5000 RPM - 1.5 bar 41 lb/min, 390 hp;
5500 RPM - 1.5 bar 45.5 lb/min, 433 hp, choke line reached, now we have to taper off the boost to stay below the choke line;
6000 RPM - 1.2 bar 45 lb/min, 428 hp;
6500 RPM - 1.0 bar 43 lb/min, 409 hp;
7000 RPM - 0.6 bar 38 lb/min, 361 hp;
7200 RPM - 0.4 bar 36 lb/min, 342 hp, "gassed out", RPM's higher than this push this turbo past it's choke line even if you run the boost at 0.0 bar (no boost at all). You're done.

The above is just the mathematical ideal and does not take in to account things like pressure loss in the intercooler. Horsepower estimates are based on 9.5 hp for every 1 lb/min of air pumped. This is the low end of the that estimate (9.5-10.5). I did that on purpose to be a little more realistic. HP is estimated at the crank.

Scargo

10-12-2014, 03:49 PM

34579
"7200 RPM - 0.4 bar 36 lb/min, 342 hp, "gassed out", RPM's higher than this push this turbo past it's choke line even if you run the boost at 0.0 bar (no boost at all). You're done."
I am not interested in exceeding 305 HP, so does it matter if the Garrett GTX 2867 runs out of gas?
The GTX2867 and has slightly better efficiencies than the BW EFR 7163.
The Garrett GTX3071R is the only one I find that works on the low and top end and its efficiencies are not better. I don't mind that it is externally wastegated.

I'd like to see how the various turbine's area ratio (A/R) options affect the performance results.:o

Scargo

11-05-2014, 09:12 PM

It has come into the warm garage. There's a bit of rust on the snout but it will all be acid dipped and powder-coated before assembly starts. I will be cutting metal away, radiusing sharp corners and deburring everything first.
My mock-up motor in the background is now in. Now I will come up with a basic layout for the oil cooler, intercooler and turbo. I'm hoping to make significant use of the side inlets.
https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10629293_987882817895497_7403854649785829655_o.jpg

Scargo

11-06-2014, 05:56 PM

Thinking oil cooler will go here. Side inlet will feed air to it. I believe I will be enlarging the side inlets.
35476
Under mount turbo location. Exhaust will probably exit just in front of rear wheel.
35477
Took out cross-bracing so six-speed would fit. Took out center tubes in cockpit that form a tunnel front-to-back. Will do a separate mount for the shifter. Wiring and cables may be in a tube or half-tube. Full Race headers that I am modifying for the STi hang an inch too low for the 818.

Aero STI

11-06-2014, 09:06 PM

A low mount turbo is appealing considering the flexibility allowed in certain areas with this chassis compared to a WRX/STI engine bay. Good luck with your endeavor.

metalmaker12

11-06-2014, 10:10 PM

Like the way your building it, like turbo location!!!

Santiago

11-07-2014, 12:25 AM

Looking forward to seeing the custom header work. I'm considering this as well, but in my case I just want to see if I have room to drop the engine an inch or two (I'll be going with a dry sump). Seems all the aftermarket headers hang damn near as low as the stock oil pan. So maybe a guy sends you a set of headers...and maybe you sends a guy back a modified set...=)

That's a big oil cooler you got there. About time we see someone try to fit one in that location. Carbon scoops in your future?

Best,
-j

Scargo

11-07-2014, 06:02 PM

I spent most of yesterday deburring sharp edges, rounding corners and cleaning up welds. Today I fitted the sti hub and started looking for lateral links and trailing arms.
Lateral Links:
I am shocked that Cusco wants $1,400 for adjustable links.
I am inclined to buy Lego-like parts and build them myself.
I found at Allstar Performance everything I need (I think). I'd like some input from the track people out there.
I can buy Aluminum rods or I can fab from .058" wall 4130.
These Howe hex rods have 15/16" flats and 5/8 threads. (http://pitstopusa.com/i-5060767-howe-aluminum-hex-suspension-tube-5-8-x-13.html) They cost $11 each. Equals total of $44.
These scalloped ones are $19 each (http://pitstopusa.com/i-13885100-quickcar-5-8-aluminum-scalloped-suspension-tube-13.html) and claim to be stronger than a plain tube. $76 total
One inch OD 4130 with .058" wall can be had on Ebay for about $30 and ends are $80 for a total of $83 and some welding.
Is aluminum strong enough?
Rod ends/Heim Joints can run from $80 for a set to ridiculous. Around $200 seems normal/average. Should I go cheap and replace them as they get loose? I am not considering ones you can lube (hole in threaded end).
What I see on my R is that the upper inboard mounting holes are larger than the lower ones. Like, 5/8" vs 12mm and the other slotted.
Going with 5/8" ends seems obvious. On the other end the STi upright has about a .55" holes for a 14mm bolt. It would be easy to enlarge it to 5/8" if the trough between the ends will clear the bolt. I guess I could use a ball-end mill on it. Then I just have to find a couple of long bolts or threaded studs! Has anyone done this mod?
On the trailing arm:
I am considering something along the lines of a "J bar". Just to show ludicrous $$, Vivid Racing: $1,032.69 (http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/-p-108302.html)
If I were to turn aluminum bushings to replace the rubber one I think I could add a Heim joint/rod end to the inside and use a simpler/straighter link to the front. Perhaps an adaptation of an OTS item, like a J-bar.

Scargo

11-09-2014, 05:59 PM

Tamra

11-09-2014, 11:06 PM

Today got to meet Tamra and Andrew. They are very close to me. What a neat couple. I interrupted their working on the 818 for about an hour. That's two hours of progress they lost. They're doing a great job.

It was great meeting you too, Glynn! Don't worry, we got the mains measured today despite you ;p Also, I would only count it as 1.5 hours. I'm not that good yet! We can't wait to see your 818R at some point.

Scargo

11-11-2014, 04:09 PM

biknman

11-13-2014, 02:50 PM

For my lateral links I just purchased QuickCar 3/4" X 13" long Aluminum Scalloped Suspension Tube (QRP75-130) and QA1 XM Series Chrome Moly Steel Rod End - Male - 5/8" bore x 3/4"-16 thread from PitStopUSA (http://pitstopusa.com/i-5073868-qa1-xm-series-chrome-moly-steel-rod-end-male-5-8-bore-x-3-4-16-thread-rh.html). Getting 5/8" X bolts from McMaster Carr.
Pictures in a couple of days...

FYI I've done this a several cars fine for racing IE occasionally use. But Daily Driving year round in the NE kills them overtime. Every time I do an oil change I service all the himes joints (usually just soak the bearing down with WD40 or PB blast and then rotate them thru their full range of motion) even if I run the seals on them. Unlike ploy or derlin bushes where you have to lube them once a year to avoid the squeaks. And eventually they break right at the eye of the hime ball joint to threaded joint. Unless it's some crazy big like 1"+ joint. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Weldable-Ballistic-Joints-Bushings_c_143.html Oh and always us anti-seize on the threads into the tie rod and on the lock nut.

Scargo

11-14-2014, 09:58 AM

Making some progress. Got these parts in and assymbled.
35715
Disassembled the rear uprights. Bearings are fun... Am about to drill the uprights out for this 5/8" cap screw:
35716
I was wondering what the best lube for Heim joints is. I do have seals for them. Have to get on the lathe. The two seals occupy .094". I have 1/4" and 1/2" tapered spacers. I also bought some .030" shim washers.

D Clary

11-14-2014, 10:46 AM

Frank818

11-14-2014, 11:42 AM

3572735728I bought all my links from speedway motors. Laterals are aluminum with aluminum hiems and the lower are aluminum with aircraft quality steel hiems. I made rear lower bushings to accommodate the rod end links

My favorite so far on this forum, sad for me I didn't see this before I installed my links last summer.

wleehendrick

11-14-2014, 11:54 AM

I bought all my links from speedway motors. Laterals are aluminum with aluminum hiems and the lower are aluminum with aircraft quality steel hiems. I made rear lower bushings to accommodate the rod end links

Looks gorgeous, but have you verified wheel fitment? Your trailing arm looks straight, while the factory piece is concave (bent inboard) for rim clearance.

D Clary

11-14-2014, 12:57 PM

They are straight but they are inset to the inside and are 1/2 the diameter of the VCP arms and have the same clearance

wleehendrick

11-14-2014, 01:04 PM

They are straight but they are inset to the inside and are 1/2 the diameter of the VCP arms and have the same clearance

Glad you considered that in the design. I've seen a lot mounted swapped, so thought I'd mention it. Nice job!

Scargo

11-14-2014, 08:19 PM

D Clary, I bought from Pitstop. We great minds think alike. I am trying to schedule a time to use a lathe, to machine aluminum inserts so I can attach a Heim joint to the inside and keep the rod straight!
I have not found bushings (on the internet) that are 40mm in diameter, that I feel will do the job. How did you accomplish it? Machined from two pieces of aluminum?
9/16" or 5/8" Heims on the trailing arm?
I assume you do not see that this will have any significant impact on the geometry of the rear suspension, as I do.

Turboguy

11-15-2014, 09:27 AM

I would ask for a different car

Buwaha ha ha ha ha!!!!

D Clary

11-15-2014, 12:45 PM

Sorry been away from the computer, I made the bushings in two pieces that push in from either side. The spindles are not very uniform so you may have to make each bushing the correct od. I made them a tight slip fit, we'll see how that goes. I used 3/4 hiems in the rear and 3/4-5/8 in front, mainly because the rear is on single shear. I bought good aircraft hiem w/ 60,00 lbs radial load rating. I used aluminum rods as they are light and strong. The lateral links use aluminum hiems and rods. I have used this stuff on a lot of dirt race cars without a failure and that is much more violent usage than these will ever see. The rear geometry is unchanged as the attaching point are the same, the bar is just straight.

Scargo

11-16-2014, 06:27 PM

D Clary: I have been having a hard time duplicating what I think you have. One inch diameter Afco tubes? 16 inches long?
I think you meant to say 60,000 lbs radial load rated Heim joints, but I have found nothing close.
I plan on using a grade 8 cap screw at the upright. Might use 3/4-3/4 for the front since weight is irrelevant.

D Clary

11-16-2014, 07:30 PM

I will measure the tubes tomorrow, I may have had to shorten them slightly. I used 3/4 5/8 in front because it required no modification to the mount and it is in double shear. I can look up the # for the joints, I am sure I got them from speedway. The rear bolt is a 3/4 grade 8 front is 5/8

D Clary

11-17-2014, 11:05 AM

The lower links are 17 inches, I couldn't find the hiems either I would have to look harder I thing they are QA1 chrome molly

Scargo

11-19-2014, 08:09 PM

An update. I was on the phone with a brake expert two days ago. What he said shocked me. He said Alcons are very good. A smallish engineering-based brake company. Perhaps a little more expensive than others.
AP is also very good. Perhaps Brembo and Stoptech next. Some biggies in the biz (as in lots of volume) will wait till they are virtually out of stock before they do a big manufacturing run and can cause supply issues.
As an aside, I have 14" (355mm) Trophy Stoptechs (http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=266068&stc=1&d=1241647927)on my STi. Stock Brembos and seven pounds lighter (each) 316mm (12.45") Gyrodisc floating rotors (http://www.performanceracesolutions.com/images/D/giro%20disc%20rotor%202%20pc.jpg) on the back. Stops well.
The expert said "go big". He said testing showed that bigger is better. Better feel before lockup/less lockup. Weight is not that big a factor (except perhaps for autocrossers) and you can sometimes order thicker rotors, with a bigger airspace (and thus lighter) to compensate for the larger diameter. Thicker pads require bigger calipers. Seldom do pads need to be more than 20mm thick.
Many brake companies use 180mm, center to center, mounting hole spacing for calipers, thus making many mounts standardized to this dimension. One brake companies adapter may work with other company's brake calipers. He wants to see caliper mounts shim-able in both axes for perfecting the alignment to the rotor.

Perhaps the most shocking comment: Use 13 inch on front and back. SAME brakes, front and rear! Less spares.
Use a proportioning valve. With a very low CG car there is not that much weight shift during braking. Braking force can be relatively equal-front to back.
No need to do more than four piston calipers. He worked for Alcon and likes the "B" type for our car.
He suggested I look at "NASCAR brakes". Good prices on Brembo and other "NASCAR" setups. A number of brake companies make a "NASCAR" brake setup. NASCAR cars are only 200-300 pounds more than our car @ 2000 pounds.
I may go with a Tilton floor-mount pedal box based on what he had to say about pedal boxes. They are high-tech, with advanced features for the hydraulic cylinders with the 900 series (http://tiltonracing.com/product/900-series-floor-mount-pedal-assembly/). Good bang for the buck? They are pricey but gorgeous and full-featured.

Bob_n_Cincy

11-19-2014, 09:47 PM

Santiago

11-20-2014, 08:23 AM

I think it would be hard to call a pedal set $2,450 a good bang for the buck. I'm sure they're nice, but "bang for the buck" requires a hard evaluation of how much nicer they are in terms of real world function compared to something else that does the same job in a similar manner (like Wilwood's floor mount pedal set, $300).

Also, I was considering a floor-mount 3-pedal set up and started to get worried that I was eating up longitudinal real estate on the floor, which meant limiting an already tight space for larger drivers (I anticipate others will drive the car, some of whom need a little Wookie love). Check the dimensions of whatever floor-mount pedal set up you're considering - check them carefully. I had hoped I could stick the masters out the back of the front firewall and just have the pedals in the cockpit, but on the backside is the rear mount for the lower control arm. That's a busy space to negotiate.

I ditched the floor-mount idea in favor of the top-mount Wilwood set up (along with a throttle pedal from Joe's - which does mount to the floor but doesn't have master cylinders to complicate things). The Wilwood pedals are very nice, and I'm hard-pressed to imagine that almost 10x the cost is going to be justified for the 900-Series Tilton set up, much less considered a good bang-for-the-buck. Of course, these aren't the only pedals from Tilton, and all of their stuff looks top notch (incl. the sets that are 1/4 the cost of these). So again, I'm wondering just how practically valuable all the bells and whistles are in the other pedal set up.

Best,
-j

Tamra

11-20-2014, 10:10 AM

LOL we're are looking at how small of brakes we need to stuff 15" wheels on the front... considering going down to 10" rotors. But, we autox, so we aren't too worried about heat. A lot of the CSP Miata's are down to 9.25" front rotors to save on unsprung weight.

Santiago

11-20-2014, 10:17 AM

Yeah, you autox guys can run some stupidly light/small rotors. I've seen some that look like Swiss cheese. I mean seriously? This:

http://www.autocross.us/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2009/post-2697-1262268326.jpg

Those wouldn't last a single session at Road America.

-j

Scargo

11-20-2014, 10:39 AM

OK, perhaps a little hyperbole, but there are other fancy pedal boxes out there. The brake specialist said they were sweet and are gentler on the cylinders since they push straight. Lol. Perhaps money could be better spent.
I was also told (please no eye-rolling just yet) that there is the three inch rule for calipers and wheels. A "good" 12" rotor and caliper should fit in a 15 inch wheel. However, I could not find a 17" wheel for my 14" BBK due to offset issues and cost.
The comment about auto X was about the issue of mass of a larger rotor. Not only unsprung weight but the rotational mass and the gyroscopic resistance effect. I think there is a technical automotive term for it. Quick transitions would see more resistance to turning, the larger the rotor and the faster it is spinning. When I asked about the trade offs of large brakes he said it was worth it in road racing in most instances.

Bob_n_Cincy

11-20-2014, 10:56 AM

I was also told (please no eye-rolling just yet) that there is the three inch rule for calipers and wheels. A "good" 12" rotor and caliper should fit in a 15 inch wheel. However, I could not find a 17" wheel for my 14" BBK due to offset issues and cost.
.

On my OEM Subaru wheels and rims. The 11.5" rotors/brakes barely fit in 16" rims. So for OEM Subaru it is more like a 4.5" rule.

MrDude_1

11-20-2014, 02:34 PM

Scargo

11-23-2014, 05:40 PM

Fun baby steps. Finished overhauling and beautifying the rear uprights. Made aluminum inserts to replace the rubber bushings.
I mounted a wheel from my STi. That's a 18x10.5" Enkei (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=enkei) RPF-01, (38ET) and BFG 275-35's, the equivalent of a Hoosier 285. What you can't see is a 10mm spacer. Just about absolute minimum for this setup to make things clear. Wheel has too much offset to the inside to work. Baby needs new shoes! Body needs flares.

Caveat: No alignment has been done; just eyeballing angles and axles are not in. There's some droop in this mockup.

Now I have to buy the proper length bolts and thinner Heim joint spacers or go back to the lathe. That's high-performance rattle-can enamel I baked on. All new bearings and seals. There's some Rasmus OCD engineering going on too.
3595035951

D Clary

11-23-2014, 07:47 PM

Looks good, what size wheel and tire is that?

STiPWRD

11-23-2014, 09:58 PM

35950

not running any e-brakes?

Santiago

11-23-2014, 10:17 PM

That there is an R-car... :cool:

No real need for an e-brake on a dedicated track car that will never see the street. I'm not running one on mine either.

Best,
-j

STiPWRD

11-23-2014, 10:46 PM

I thought so... that's what he was referring to with the Rasmus OCD engineering ;)

JeromeS13

11-23-2014, 11:22 PM

That there is an R-car... :cool:

No real need for an e-brake on a dedicated track car that will never see the street. I'm not running one on mine either.

Best,
-j

What do you do if you lose brake hydraulics on track?

Scargo

11-24-2014, 07:19 AM

Jerome, you pray and downshift for all it's worth.
I think you're yanking our chain. You've been on the track.

D Clary

11-24-2014, 11:11 AM

I don't think the E brake is going to help you going 100 mph into turn eleven at Sonoma

Mechie3

11-24-2014, 11:20 AM

The real question is, how are you going to drift it around a parking garage in Tokyo?

STiPWRD

11-24-2014, 12:33 PM

No to mention all the wood blocks you'll have to lug around to keep the thing from rolling down hills when parked.

xxguitarist

11-24-2014, 02:31 PM

No to mention all the wood blocks you'll have to lug around to keep the thing from rolling down hills when parked.

If only you could park it in gear..

Our miata has a sticky ebrake. We haven't used it in a year. Hasn't been an issue for us..

STiPWRD

11-24-2014, 04:58 PM

If only you could park it in gear..

Our miata has a sticky ebrake. We haven't used it in a year. Hasn't been an issue for us..

Touche, I had remote start so leaving the car in gear is something I hadn't done in a very long time and had all but forgotten about it.

Scargo

11-24-2014, 06:16 PM

Touche, I had remote start so leaving the car in gear is something I hadn't done in a very long time and had all but forgotten about it.
Racing is a different world. You have to warm things up. Tires brakes, oil must be warmed. Once I spun out on a new set of greasy R compound tires on the first turn! It was if I was on ice.
Then you do the reverse. When you come off the track you should have done a cool-off lap, or a minute or so at a slow pace...
When you stop you do not engage a parking brake or sit on your brakes. The pads can stick to the rotors!
Hopefully you are cooled down enough that you can kill the motor and have it in gear. Otherwise, you need a level spot, a crew to chock your wheels or you jump out and do it yourself, without setting the handbrake,(again, IF you have one).

JeromeS13

11-24-2014, 07:24 PM

Jerome, you pray and downshift for all it's worth.
I think you're yanking our chain. You've been on the track.

I'm not sure that I would drive a car on track without an e-brake... Too much there to go wrong. Admittedly, it's not going to STOP you in the event of a brake failure... But, it can slow things down enough or give you an extra moment to point at something else...

RM1SepEx

11-24-2014, 07:53 PM

Time to take a step back and think about it:

When using the brakes at a track, you wait till the last possible second and use them HARD, just like you accelerate hard. Deceleration is as or even more important than acceleration to lap times. By the time you realize you have no brakes something else is reducing your velocity at a very rapid rate. :(

Santiago

11-25-2014, 01:52 AM

I thought this was a joke, but apparently not. Plenty of us don't ever use the e-brake with dedicated track vehicles. This is because they're not really "emergency" brakes, they're parking brakes and you don't use them for the reasons Glyn mentioned.

As for using them as a legitimate emergency measure, I think it's definitely time to think about that. So here's the scene: you're deep into the entry of a corner when you realize you are have catastrophic brake failure (I say that because you have two independent hydraulic lines that would have to fail simultaneously; but that's another matter). Now you decide to pull the e-brake as a way to stay safe? Not only is it not going to stop you, it's almost certainly going to spin you unless you're going straight on. The move is just as likely to make things worse as it is to help - and I suspect it's really more likely to make things worse. You've just locked up your rear tires right when you're in a mood to take evasive measures...I'd rather not.

Best,
-j

STiPWRD

11-25-2014, 09:01 AM

All joking aside, is the argument against e-brakes (in a racing application) basically the weight penalty and the tendency to spin out when trying to use it in a turn? Or maybe the lack of reaction time between realizing the hydraulic brakes have failed to pulling the e-brake? What about emergency braking in a straight line if space will allow?

Regarding the cool down period, I can see how the brake pads could stick but wouldn't the e-brake shows be ok to use for parking since they would have been relatively unused during the racing? Or would the rotors still be too hot?

I don't have much road racing experience to this is all educational for me, I appreciate everyone's input. One of these years I'd like to get more into racing.

Scargo

11-25-2014, 11:47 AM

It is a weight penalty and a complexity you do not need or want in road racing. In autocross there might be a need for the handbrake, but in my last few years of doing auto-X I never saw a lone cone, where you had to do a "Uey" or a 360 around it. Rally or drifting might use them but not in road racing. Maybe in the movies...

Regardless of whether it's used on a road circuit or not, which it's not, you can have it get stuck. I was explicitly warned about this several times by my Subie buddy (ex-SCCA racer and driving instructor of eight or more years). It may be the shoe material and the heat built up in the drum and/or the contraction of the drum as it cools.
With the stock or add-on brake systems (I believe the Wilwood is this way), you will need some or all of the backing plate to hold the caliper. I will not even use the backing plate unless I decide to use some of it to hold a cooling duct in place.

C.Plavan

11-25-2014, 12:21 PM

This ebrake thing is cracking me up. I have never needed an ebrake, no race car I have driven has had an ebrake, if brakes fail on the track, you won't know until it's too late, and you won't be thinking "ebrake".

People have been watching too much Fast and Furious.....

It's added weight, ditch them.

xxguitarist

11-25-2014, 12:25 PM

MrDude_1

11-25-2014, 01:55 PM

What do you do if you lose brake hydraulics on track?
This is why you do not have 1 hydraulic system on the brakes.. you have two. The front and rear units are completely separate, linked only by the shaft within the master cyl.

That said, if BOTH went out and you had to stop within the distance of the PARKING brake, you can downshift to 1st and use the clutch.

Scargo

12-10-2014, 09:52 PM

I know I've been quiet about my build. I've been restoring a Logan 200 lathe.
36439

I just purchased a comprehensive set of Subaru specialty tools for less than half price.
Company 23 tools:
AVCS Int Cam Sprocket Tool
Dual AVCS Exh Cam Sprocket Tool
Camlock Tool 1
AVCS Security Socket
Axle Pin Tool

Grimmspeed - crank pulley tool
Snap On - Subaru ball joint removal tool

If anyone in the area needs to borrow any of these you are welcome to use them. I'll have them in a couple of days.

I should have axles on the car in a week. I'm trying to find someone to help me with the front suspension design. I just Received "Competition Car Suspension by Allan Staniforth. I hope to learn from it.
My current plan is to use these spindles and 13" Stoptech Trophy brakes front and rear. Working with Zeckhausen, I have submitted a "race car data sheet" on the 818. Through them, Stoptech is evaluating my needs and I should have their opinion soon.

I made more parts acquisitions, including a MAC four-port valve for the turbo.

Posted this elsewhere:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10371938_1007309412619504_534425720664875718_n.jpg ?oh=c452f104ff083833f7da0bcf15de1644&oe=55081722&__gda__=1426557611_4c7f08b521cd87388c38f6c1d12c4a3 4https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10801897_1007309415952837_1519372866452917866_n.jp g?oh=0e7ad7fe1a5a62ef59b0aa6c467a8f5b&oe=55130523
My 275 Goodrich R1s on 10.5"x 18 with 38 ET wheels and 10mm offset.

Scargo

12-17-2014, 02:59 PM

I received my heavy-duty CV joints from The Driveshaft Shop yesterday and I found time to get one mounted. This is an all STi rear with an STi rear axle. Shown is the hub at 3.25 inch ride height. My hubs are 62.4 inches apart. Basic alignment is done for camber and toe.
With my 10.5 inch wide wheels and spaced to the equivalent of a 28ET I barely clear the arms. A 10 inch rim would fix everything.
365703657136572
A question I have is about the axle offset. Look at the third picture of the axle and lateral arms. It's over an inch and a half and perhaps as much as two inches. Is this normal?

Frank818

12-17-2014, 06:48 PM

1.5" is normal AFAIK. What were you expecting, exactly?
You should see mines, not only I will get 2x that, but they are offset back of the axle centres on the tranny! :)

Scargo

12-17-2014, 08:07 PM

Don't know what to expect. Wheels farther back so it's squarer? I haven't seen any pictures of the axle in relationship to the Lateral links and outer hub on other people's cars.

Scargo

12-27-2014, 11:42 AM

I am adapting 2006 Honda S2000 front spindles (some may call them knuckles) to my car. Major brake options are available and the geometry looks good. Thought this is not a "money is no object" solution, they are beefy and light and well-designed. I'm thinking that I will have to move the steering rack mounts up or remake them.
Looks like four-pot Stoptech Trophy 12.9" brakes front and rear. Actual piston size combo TBD. I'm working on the LCA design and should have something mocked up soon.
Also I will go with 17" wheels front and rear. My best-guess so far is 235's on 9" x 50 ET fronts and 255's or 275's on 10" x 28 ET rears.
37091

Scargo

12-27-2014, 06:03 PM

36867
Looks like what I'll run front and back.
Front: 328 x 35mm rotors and ST-40 calipers. Pistons sizes TBD.
Rear: Race-only (no parking brakes) rear ST-40 kit for the STi that uses 328 x 28mm rotors. That kit is p/n 87-838-0043. I have stripped the rear backing plates down to just the thick piece that holds the caliper. I will rotate it and run the caliper at the 7 to 9 o'clock position (if you are on the driver's side looking at the rear wheel).
36868About a dozen spot-welds drilled and using a 5/8" drill bit rids me of the detritus. I can then rotate it 180 degrees and have a more racy mounting point (low and inside , as they say in BB).
Thanks to Zeckhausen Racing for the recommendations! I did a data sheet that went to Stoptech and then Dave took over.

Tamra

12-27-2014, 10:37 PM

What's the major advantage of the S2000 spindles over the Subaru ones? Just curious since I'm not familiar with them. We've pondered the idea of an S2000 steering rack since we love the quick steering response of the S2000, but that will likely be a next winter project if we do that.

Scargo

12-28-2014, 03:08 PM

I'm not going to show you the spindles just yet, as I am cleaning them. They weight 13-1/2 pounds. I can't remember the number... Perhaps someone else knows what the WRX setup weights. However, I want to say 19 pounds.
However, this is what got me started on them:
http://home.tiscali.nl/onlinestorage/FrontSuspensionSmall.bmp
The lower ball-joint bolts on and the ball-shaft plugs into the LCA, like Subaru's. The bolt-on mount opens up all kinds of avenues for modification, as in spacers, offset and as shown below, really quick steering.
https://csgarage.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/dscf4122-800-copy1.jpg
Or...
http://image.nengun.com/catalogue/350x280/nengun-1453-02-c-one-quick_steering_knuckle.jpg

What's wrong with the Subaru upright/spindle/knuckle? I've been asked that a lot. Here's the summary:

It is a "one-size fits all" approach to a kit car suspension. Fine if you're building a DD or sunny day car.
The WRX upright is HEAVY. It's meant for a 3,500 pound car that can run rallys. Way too much unsprung weight.
The suspension is based on an AWD, McPhearson strut part that's adapted into unequal-length A arms. Just that conversion adds more unsprung weight and more pieces bolted together and something else to fail.
The steering is slow. I want something in the order of 12:1.
The WRX rack is heavy. You must de-power it and it has unnecessary bulk.
The LCA is very limited in its adjustability. Certainly not infinitely adjustable within a range that you would want with a race car.
Won't take tires over 24.5 OD. Some combos rub at full lock and hit at the corner of the chassis. While this may be workable, it is limiting in choices of wheels and tires.
It's too compromised for a real race car. It's based on an affordable donor car approach.

Scargo

01-01-2015, 06:11 AM

I contacted Anze Engineering, since they are nearby, offer Penske shocks and seem like a major player in suspension design in the NE. The prez, Angelo Zarra called me personally and I was impressed with what he can offer. He had done some homework on the 818R before calling. Previously he has done some FFR Cobra suspensions.
I will be sending him a front and rear red Koni for them to evaluate. Seems someone else had the red shocks dyno'd. I would sure like to know who that was/get those numbers for comparison.
In the meantime I have been learning CAD all over again and expect to be getting some brackets made shortly for the front suspension redesign. I'm looking for a shop that will cater to the DIY'er.
I'll have the S2000 uprights cleaned up and rebuilt in a few days. I've almost finished building a sandblasting cabinet out of our old AC heat exchanger box.
I'm also trying to settle on some rims. I may have a buddy with some Porsche staggered-sized take-off slicks that may be perfect for the first tire shodding iteration. Still puzzled why no-one else is running 17's in the rear.

metalmaker12

01-01-2015, 09:24 AM

Very cool man, I will stay tuned. I am plaining on building an R down the road so your front suspension ideas our great.

metalmaker12

01-01-2015, 09:25 AM

Since they are nearby, offer Penske shocks and seem like a major player in suspension design in the NE, I contacted Anze Engineering. The prez, Angelo Zarra called me personally and I was impressed with what he can offer. He had done some homework on the 818R before calling. Previously he has done some FFR Cobra suspensions.
I will be sending him a front and rear red Koni for them to evaluate. Seems someone else had the red shocks dyno'd. I would sure like to know who that was/get those numbers for comparison.
In the meantime I have been learning CAD all over again and expect to be getting some brackets made shortly for the front suspension redesign. I'm looking for a shop that will cater to the DIY'er.
I'll have the S2000 uprights cleaned up and rebuilt in a few days. I've almost finished building a sandblasting cabinet out of our old AC heat exchanger box.
I'm also trying to settle on some rims. I may have a buddy with some Porsche staggered-sized take-off slicks that may be perfect for the first tire shodding iteration. Still puzzled why no-one else is running 17's in the rear.

Stick shift84 is running 17's all around

C.Plavan

01-01-2015, 10:39 AM

I have 17's all around also.

Scargo

01-01-2015, 01:18 PM

Oops! Missed that. I can't find anything about stickshift's wheels/tires.
I am closing in on the sizes I want to run. I'm guessing (though I've been fitting some things so it's not a WAG) that it will be 9x17 50 ET front and 10x17 35 ET rear and 235x40 and 255x40 tires at first. I will have a bigger track based on the S2000 uprights and custom LCAs.
I have another oops. I misspoke about the spindle weight. With all pieces weighed they are more like 15 lbs, 14 ounces (with ARP long wheel studs).

Tamra

01-01-2015, 03:16 PM

We currently have 17x8 with a 45 offset on the rear, with 255/40/17 tires. I wouldn't want them to be any closer on the inside. Using this calculator here (http://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator), to run a 17x10 wheel and have the same clearance, you would need an offset of 20. Of course this is not accounting for all factors and I don't know how your spindles change things.

We are planning on running different race wheels likely, 15's up front and 17's in the rear for the most tire choices. For dailies, these are Enkei Pfo1's, 17's all around.

Here's a photo of ours, alignment not yet set: http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/DSC_0098_2_zps2cda8397.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/DSC_0098_2_zps2cda8397.jpg.html)

Scargo

01-01-2015, 04:51 PM

You can juggle those Heim joint spacers, cut them down, use washers to compensate, etc. to get more clearance. I bought some thin, precision washers from McMaster-Carr and I now have a lathe.
Note post #88. I have moved my trailing arm inside by making aluminum bushings and at the front I will move it fully inboard or I will cut the mounts out and by re-positioning, gain more room. One of the reasons I bought a bare frame.
I'm almost that close with my (equivalent) 10.5 inch 18" rims with 28 ET. I still have to move out my uprights, or get shorter axles, as the axles are in too tight in the CV joint. If I move everything out I will need three longer arms per side and rims with more inward offset to allow fender to wheel clearance. A barrel o' snakes! I suspect I will get shorter axles or look on Ebay for front STi axles.

Scargo

01-09-2015, 10:03 PM

Took time out to reinstall my air scrubber in the garage and almost finished my sandblast cabinet today. I am making this out of an AC heat exchanger box.
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1503906_1036845006332611_5678706374994823945_n.jpg ?oh=7b8948aa2355ec5577d94633cabbf75c&oe=553336BE

I have cut off all the suspension mounts on the front end except for the front LCA ones. Frame is getting lighter.

Have just about settled on these for brakes:
37463
Total brake package per wheel=25 pounds. That's brackets, pads and all.
Stoptech says the weight distribution under braking is very close to 50/50, so I can use the same caliper sizing front and rear.
Front: STR40/28-32 (28 &32 are the piston sizes), 328x28mm rotor
Rear: same as front

Master Cylinder Size: Front: ¾”, Rear: ¾”, Pedal Ratio: 5.61

Tamra

01-10-2015, 10:24 AM

That's awesome that you have a sand blasting cabinet! That will come in handy for sure. We've been driving to Andrew's work when we need to sand blast something.

The brakes look nice!

Evan78

01-11-2015, 06:17 PM

Have just about settled on these for brakes:
37463
Total brake package per wheel=25 pounds. That's brackets, pads and all.
Stoptech says the weight distribution under braking is very close to 50/50, so I can use the same caliper sizing front and rear.
Front: STR40/28-32 (28 &32 are the piston sizes), 328x28mm rotor
Rear: same as front

Master Cylinder Size: Front: ¾”, Rear: ¾”, Pedal Ratio: 5.61Great! That's what I'm using on the front. I had them lying around from a previous WRX I owned. I'm glad you are ahead of me and will figure out the balance before I have to sort out my rear brakes.

Scargo

01-11-2015, 06:40 PM

I don't know how ahead of you I will be. I am progressing slowly. I will have my brake stuff in a week or two but testing it may be a ways off.

I did get the same answer from two brake experts. First, an engineer that used to work for AP and then Stoptech. I also was told that a proportioning valve will slow braking response and that a balanced system and adjustable bias on the master cylinders, using a racing pedal box, like the Tilton 600 and 900, is the best way to address braking pressure bias.

As to my rear end design, it seems to have been ignored in the thread (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16660-Rear-End-Redesign&p=183996&viewfull=1#post183996) Rear End Redesign (http://Rear End Redesign)
so I am reposting my favorite look here.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10929100_1035116973172081_7187578412700934353_n.jp g?oh=5ef7a40a79e93d3aa6eef5c833b7538c&oe=5524323F&__gda__=1428440917_7bf0a375c6c221eeed8726cf0fd698c 7

flynntuna

01-11-2015, 07:03 PM

All business! :cool:

Scargo

01-16-2015, 09:03 PM

Today I ordered Howe Racing, heavy duty, rebuildable, racing ball joints for the front UCAs. They are a ******* combination that allows me to use the FFR UCA with my Honda S2000 upright. The upright uses a common 7° stud but it is smaller than the Chrysler K772. A stud for early GM cars works so I ordered the parts independently. Howe was a big help!

Howe Racing, heavy duty, rebuildable ball joints:
Under "Howe 22306 Hybrid K5208/K772-22329" - Howe 22306 "Less Stud" = SKU: 22329 This fits the UCA.

"Howe 22303 Fits K5108-22382" - Stud for 22303: +.200 stud = SKU: 22382 This fits the Honda S2000 upright (or spindle).

Tomorrow I paint and build up the uprights.
This evening I received the Tilton pedals, master cylinders and reservoir from Summit. I am about to order the -4 AN fittings and SS lines to feed the master cylinders.

I have Anze Suspension working on Penske two-way shocks and an inboard shock design. Jim Schenck was so kind as to give me some data like roll centers and wheel rates.
While I am at it I want to mention a guy who has selflessly assisted me for a month now. Primarily in suspension design but much more. He has been an all-round touchstone and mentor, providing many a litmus test for my crazy schemes. He is pretty savvy for being half my age! His name is Peter Agapoglou. His business is AutoSport, LLC and he's in Avon, CT. pete@autosportfab.com 860 508 9670.
He has worked for Bimmerworld in the pits on their stable of race cars and gets flown around the country to do so. He builds race cars, which includes all aspects of getting a car ready for the track and providing trackside support. His roll-cage work looks quite nice. He could certainly be helpful if you want help with your 818. He also has a working relationship with Anze, on Long Island.

Scargo

01-17-2015, 08:24 PM

WTF? Won't let me say bastar*, which is a common term for something non-standard or customized? Moderators should adjust their filters for something less rigid.
We use wtf, nfw, etc. all the time and I can't say a form of bastar*ized? This is prehistoric censorship.

Scargo

01-17-2015, 09:13 PM

Progress. Blasting cabinet is working well. Honda S2000 front hubs. Nice and light and a beefy bearing. Sort of a teaser. I should have it all finished tomorrow.
37729

More excitement. Looks like I'll see my Stoptech brakes in three weeks. Now if i can just get the front suspension figured and all coming together!

Tamra

01-17-2015, 11:54 PM

Looking great, Glyn!

Scargo

01-22-2015, 09:33 PM

Honda S2000 uprights finished. Besides smoothing, lightening, baked-on paint and new ARP studs and bearing, I cut off the tone ring. Don't want no stinkin' ABS. Howe race ball joint is laying next to it. Fits in FFR provided UCA and ball stud fits the S2000 without modification.
379453794637963Basic assembly (but UCA is backwards) and without LCA. Will probably be fabbing that.

Wedssport TC105N with Titan Finish on order.
Front: 17 x 9 +49 Rear: 17 x 9.5 +32
15.8 pounds and 16.3 pounds
37956
As designed, I will have a 60 inch track in the front and start with 225 Conti slicks. These 225's and 245's are take-offs from a Porsche cup car.

Bob_n_Cincy

01-22-2015, 10:21 PM

Honda S2000 uprights finished. Besides smoothing, lightening, baked-on paint and new ARP studs and bearing, I cut off the tone ring. Don't want no stinkin' ABS. Howe race ball joint is laying next to it. Fits in FFR provided UCA and ball stud fits the S2000 without modification.
3794537946
Wedssport TC105N with Titan Finish on order.
Front: 17 x 9 +49 Rear: 17 x 9.5 +32
15.8 pounds and 16.3 pounds
37956

Wow Scargo,
98% of the time I look at something, I understand. Not this time. Isn't the upper ball joint mount going to be about 6" short?

I like the way the lower ball joint is a load bearing type. I may want this in my front heavy 818EV.
Bob

Scargo

01-23-2015, 07:40 AM

Look at my post again and perhaps it will be clearer. I added another picture and more info. I don't even have upper mounting points now. They are gone. Upper control arm and ball joint will be inside the wheel. The lower ball joint assembly is stock, though it has been ground on quite a bit. Those two mounting bolts for the LBJ provide an opportunity for adding spacers or a custom steering arm.
I'm also working with Anze on inboard shocks/springs.

129st

01-23-2015, 09:20 AM

You are doing some awesome front suspension development work. Please add any pictures/drawings/data of the inboard shock/spring setup when it comes together.

By the way, I vote for your rear end design. "Form follows function" is the way to go.

Scargo

01-23-2015, 08:15 PM

Took time out to rework the air supply in my three-bay garage. Condensation columns with drain, filter, dryer and regulator combo. Six quick-disconnects and multiple regulators and dryers. Overhead hose reel. One outlet outside with regulator. Air into the basement. All heavy copper. A good start.
3799537996

Evan78

01-25-2015, 10:04 PM

I don't know anything about compressors, so can you tell me what's up with the zig-zag portion.

Scargo

01-26-2015, 08:56 AM

Sure. Before I explain, I have a mia culpa: In the photo, the filter/regulator block is backwards from how it should be. I have the air flowing from right to left and I had to reverse them to get everything to work.
I have air from the compressor going into one inch copper first then the drain valve at the bottom and then the zig-zag is 3/4 copper. Stuff I had leftover from a big water heat/boiler project. Some people use flexible copper tubing and have it going back and forth on a wall, but the idea is to take the hot, moisture-laden air and cool it to condense out the moisture before it gets into the air supply system. The air travels slowly in the big tube, so it gets a chance to cool. Then it cools more as it heads up the zig-zag into the filter and dryer and then through the regulator. The design is a bit of a conceit. I am an artist/engineering type and just thought doing it this was would be cool looking as well as be functional.

Scargo

01-30-2015, 05:25 PM

Have mocked-up my seat location, steering wheel and pedals. I am 165 and 5-11. I felt cramped. My racing seat (temporarily a Sparco Pro 2000) was hard against the right seat-belt mount and I felt like I was going to be banging my left elbow against the cage. If I'm 5-11 and feeling like I'm running out of legroom I wonder how others are managing? Does anyone else have their knees at the steering wheel?

FFRSpec72

01-30-2015, 05:42 PM

I'm 170lbs, 6' tall and have extra room, seat is on slider and I don't have to go all the way back to my firewall. Several folks have tried it and no issues. The main issue is the broom stick test, as I pass but others are on the edge. So how did you fair on the broom stick test ?

C.Plavan

01-30-2015, 06:58 PM

Move the firewall back and seat needs to be mounted as low, and raked back as far as it can go. I just bent the upper firewall lower bend an additional ~10 degrees. I also bought a thinner seat cushion after my shakedown. That lowered me another 40mm. I'm 5'11, 180.

Scargo

01-30-2015, 08:32 PM

Perhaps it's partly the Tilton floor-mounted pedals. To have them where I want them they may not be as far forward as the Subaru hung pedals. I am grinding on them to have them completely straddle the square tube that is in my way. I don't have the seat all the way back. I have at least another inch.
I tried it with just an adjuster which brings it up about an inch. Then I added 1-1/2" under that with a little tilt back. I'll get there but I didn't like having my knees so close to my already small, 12-1/2" diameter steering wheel.
Nobody has commented about their left elbow bumping the cage... And that is without the SFI padding!

Bob_n_Cincy

01-31-2015, 12:26 AM

Santiago

01-31-2015, 10:04 AM

Perhaps it's partly the Tilton floor-mounted pedals. To have them where I want them they may not be as far forward as the Subaru hung pedals. I am grinding on them to have them completely straddle the square tube that is in my way.

That was why I decided against a floor mount set up. You lose a couple of inches of leg room and it was apparent that we need all we can get here. I had also thought that you could "work around" the square tube in the forward bulkhead, but that doesn't seem feasible if you're using the Subaru LCA mount as FFR intended. You're in a more favorable position in this regard using a custom suspension set up.

Good luck with the fitment! Sounds like you've got a few ways to make it work.

Best,
-j

C.Plavan

01-31-2015, 10:52 AM

I didn't notice my left arm hitting the roll bar at all. No different than other cars I race. Keep in mind, you "forget" about any distractions that might bug you once you are racing.

If you are hitting the side harness mounts with your seat, that seat must be really wide. I have ~2" clearance on both sides between the side harness mounts.

Scargo

02-03-2015, 08:51 PM

:rolleyes: Not a big seat. With the right mount bent over to the angle of the side of the seat base I have 4-1/2 inches of slop without bolts in the brackets. I don't and wont have a center console, per se, so having it to the far right feels pretty good. I don't know about forgetting about distractions. In my STi I have to contort my right leg a little and I was starting to get a cramp towards the end of a session. It was distracting and I was considering pulling in when the session ended. I will have padding on that area but I could see it interfering if I had a tank-slapper.
I may end up moving the vertical. one inch square tube, but for the moment I have my master cylinders straddling it and I appear to have enough legroom.
383943839538396

Santiago

02-04-2015, 07:41 AM

38394

I see you've got an SFI certified quick-disconnect hub there...instead of that street-tuner crap! =)

Looking good Glyn. I'd be surprised if you needed more leg room with the masters ahead of the fire wall. Personally, I'd be reluctant to remove that tube, since it seems to play a structural role (total suspicion, in no way informed or analyzed thoroughly). Then again, I'm skittish that way - heck I'm even reluctant to remove that diagonal leg-bar that plagues folks.

Best,
-j

Scargo

02-04-2015, 11:18 AM

Yes, wise-A; and it's over-sized, heavy-duty Luan, too. Do you think the 1/2" pipe will pass muster?
I have adjusted the seat and I'll have and inch forward and backwards on the slides. Everything is where I want it and I am one to two inches farther to the right with the pedals than "normal" and the seat is 1-5/8" off to the right of center. The steering shaft is only about an inch to the right.
Will need a small riser to rest my heels on. I now have good knee clearance at the steering wheel.

Wheels should be here Friday. Pagid Yellows just arrived. Next to them are my pads from my STi's 13" BBK. Not a big difference. Stoptechs should not be far behind.

38407
Speaking of quick-disconnects: What would people recommend for the car? Hub, shaft, and quick-disconnect brand/style?
I have a NRG Gen 2.0 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BXWIET8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)on the STi and I'm not crazy about it. It's finicky and not fast to disengage.

C.Plavan

02-04-2015, 12:04 PM

I have two of these. Been using one for 10 years with no issues or slop. Get the Race version.

http://www.tekniqauto.com/US/snapoff/snapoff.htm

Wayne Presley

02-04-2015, 01:28 PM

The MOMO hub is the best I've seen lately. Absolutely zero radial or axial play.

C.Plavan

02-04-2015, 01:53 PM

The MOMO hub is the best I've seen lately. Absolutely zero radial or axial play.

Yep- agree. The Momo attaches to the above quick disconnect perfectly.

Ellimist

02-04-2015, 09:31 PM

I have two of these. Been using one for 10 years with no issues or slop. Get the Race version.

http://www.tekniqauto.com/US/snapoff/snapoff.htm
So it says the race version isn't street legal.... Darn.

Santiago

02-05-2015, 07:22 AM

I've been looking at the Woodward line of quick releases (all SFI 42.1 certified). Something like the QRA-1 (http://pitstopusa.com/i-20453692-woodward-quick-release-w-jumbo-aluminum-pull-ring-and-weld-on-adapter-sfi-42-1-sticker.html) with the QR697 hub adapter for the steering wheel I'd like to run. These are weld-on spline type adapters, so there's more fab work involved than some would prefer. You can go with their full steering column as well with splines pre-welded, but that's adding to the expenses. For a street driven car, this probably wouldn't be a viable option.

That Tekniq looks nice too. So I'll look into it more.

Best,
-j

Scargo

02-05-2015, 09:45 AM

I like that Woodward one and have been looking at the Sweet (SWT801-70055 Sweet Momo/Sparco QR Hub).
38449
I am trying to keep this simple and just get a 3/4 rod and weld one on. Then use...
38451Aluminum with two 5/16-18 threaded holes.
38450and/or
38452SS mount on bulkhead. It has two set-screws (then I wouldn't need the collar clamp).

What do you think?
I'm not trying to cheap-out. Some are really slick but require more pieces. How important is it that I have something collapsible in the path?

Wayne Presley

02-05-2015, 10:02 AM

Yep- agree. The Momo attaches to the above quick disconnect perfectly.

I was talking about the MOMO quick disconnect hub

38453

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/momo-qr6-quick-release-4_zps20da14db.png (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/momo-qr6-quick-release-4_zps20da14db.png.html)

C.Plavan

02-05-2015, 10:44 AM

I was talking about the MOMO quick disconnect hub

38453

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/momo-qr6-quick-release-4_zps20da14db.png (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/momo-qr6-quick-release-4_zps20da14db.png.html)

Gotcha- I though you were just talking hubs. Those are pricey.

I have used one similar in a buddy's car. I did like the one hand operation over the two hand of mine. http://www.rennline.com/Steering-Wheel-Quick-Disconnect-Rev-B/productinfo/I18/RED/

Scargo

02-05-2015, 10:51 AM

Wayne, I would jump on that MOMO but then I wouldn't have any money left for the steering shaft adapter...

Wayne Presley

02-05-2015, 10:51 AM

The kidney bean shaped part will only go on one way and is tapered for an exact fit. It's only $400 :cool:

Frank818

02-05-2015, 12:28 PM

It's only $400 :cool:

Lolll

FFRSpec72

02-05-2015, 12:34 PM

Your build is looking great !

Scargo

02-05-2015, 01:08 PM

I just had the Wedssports delivered! SOoo stoked! Why is it wheels do that to you? It's not like a motor or anything. Tomorrow I will have the front suspension partially mocked up.
Pete Agapoglou, of Autosport Fabrication, will be here in the morning and hopefully we will nail down the suspension points and then I can turn Anze loose on a front inboard shocks design. When finished I will share.
Short wheelbase version!
38455
And, yes, they are the same color. I just did some fill lighting on the right (rear) that caused the left one to look warmer than it really is.

Frank818

02-06-2015, 11:35 AM

Yeah those are great. :)

Scargo

02-06-2015, 08:07 PM

Good evening boys and girls.
Pete came over this afternoon and I had the suspension mocked up and waiting for his critique and our measuring of its geometry. I did the arms in 1/2" electrical PVC tubing. Drilling out the ends allowed them to fit the 3/4 threads. As is, they accept 1/2" diameter studs. I used hot-melt adhesive to glue it together and it was quite sturdy.
We measured camber and caster and discussed what to do next. Pete said we were 70% there and that it just required a few tweaks and a resolving of interference of the Howe ball joint with the inside of the rim. I need to order a shorter version of the ball-stud. My placement of the master cylinder set is in conflict with the lower control arm mounting position. This evolved into a discussion of making the car a single-seater that is in the middle of the car. I doubt I'll do that but I do have to move the master cylinders or switch to the Tilton hung version. The rear wheels will work fine and I suspect the fronts will be fine, too. Because of the ball-joint interference we did not get the front wheels on fully. Tomorrow I will get race tires mounted.
384703847138472
3847338474

Gary Livingston

02-07-2015, 04:37 PM

Like the lateral links and trailing arms.:) Did you buy that as extruded Al stock, machine and thread?

I see you are a frame hacker like me. Looks nice. Those knuckles look lighter.

Santiago

02-07-2015, 05:27 PM

Damn. I was hoping your custom LCA/mounts would mean you'd be clear of the floor-mount masters. Of course, going to a single-seater would solve that easily, but if that's the plan then you've got a lot more frame hacking options. For me, the fact it's a two-seater satisfied mandatory requirements for me.

Anyway, here's a long shot to consider, mount the pedal assembly over the LCA mount. What's that, an inch or two higher? That may require a more reclined seating position to feel comfortable, but that would gain you even more headroom under the main hoop. Just a thought.

Looking super cool so far!

Best,
-j

Scargo

02-07-2015, 06:16 PM

No (though I do have a lathe). It's Quickcar Racing Products 3/4" (thread) aluminum scalloped tube. I bought some from Amazon and some from Pitstopusa.com. Mentioned here in my build thread. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12395-818R-quot-Glynman-Style-quot&p=177532&viewfull=1#post177532) They are claiming that they are light, yet strong for their size because of the scalloping. They will require watching and keeping tight since I will be running a steel thread Heim joint end in an aluminum body. If they ever got loose they would wallow out quickly. I'll be using some Locktite. I have experience running Agency Power's aluminum LCAs on my STi track car. I am not recommending them but I will try them in my build.
The Honda S2000 uprights are light. They are also capable of being easily modified and many brake kits and aftermarket parts are available for them. They have 8.4° KPI. The lower ball-joint can be shimmed down. A steering arm can be inserted in-between, if you wish for the rack to be lower or if you want a different ratio or different Ackerman. I will do a weight breakdown, once I have the components finalized. I anticipate saving 10-20 pounds per side on un-sprung weight.
FYI: our measurements on the car (camber gain and caster during bump and bump-steer) shows the mock-up to have good geometry for a race car.

I am finding that the steering arms of the S2000 uprights will probably play nice with the steering rack mounts that FFR provides. That is next on my agenda; picking a steering rack.
Yes, I like to hack. Nothing is sacred. I need to find a sheet-metal shop with a laser cutter to do all my brackets. I may pass on my design to Pete and he/we may be offering the parts to do this mod. Right now we are just prototyping mine and scheming. I may make multiple sets if I need to fill out a half-sheet of laser-cutting to make it economical.

metalmaker12

02-08-2015, 05:50 AM

FFR has a laser and would prob help you and send them to you for a standard fee. What is the design of the bracket you need cut, I also have access to a waterjet cutter not far from me. Like how your modding it up, interesting ideas, which should pay off. If I built an R I would put the seat in the middle and us a totally different drivetrain... V8 ls3 with perhaps a Porsche tranny or the subie 6 modded with some different gears. But I stayed away from making it that type of project because I have limited build time with a young family, work etc. I am jealous dude, I only get to fab cool stuff up at work that does not bennift me.

Scargo

02-10-2015, 08:48 PM

Stuck the wheels on the suspension. I am very happy with the rear fitment, but the front needs work.
When I initially laid out the LCA I guesstimated the three points by using an '08 STi LCA as a template for the layout. Remember that the rear mounting points are gone and the front brackets must have new holes drilled. I did not use the published wheelbase dimension to double-check my spindle placement, which I now regret. While the front geometry is quite good, I need to bring the wheel center-line at least an inch forward. The tire hits the body when turned in at the rear (or the left wheel turned left).

How much lock to lock angle is enough for a race car? I have about 25° when turned right and 20°+ for left before it either interferes with the steering linkage in the front or rubs on the upper control arm (again, I'm mocking up my suspension design on the left-front).
I'll get this fixed tomorrow I hope.

3863438635
Also, I misspoke about the tires. The fronts are Continental Extreme Contact DR, with an ST stamping and are 225x45x17, NOT 245x40x17 as I previously stated. Same for the 245 rears. They are also 45 aspect ratio sidewalls and they are stamped ST-1. I am curious about what the ST and ST-1 means.

FFRSpec72

02-10-2015, 09:28 PM

They are stamped ST and not GT ? I have seen GT-1 tires but not ST-1

Scargo

02-11-2015, 07:08 AM

38670
245x45x17.
The smaller front just has "ST".
I was told these came off a Porsche "Cup car". On IMSA's site I see it is Street Tuner class, meaning it was a Porsche Boxster or Cayman. -1 must just mean it is for the rear.
Got theses cheap, so mounted and balanced I have $70 each in them. They have lots of rubber on them. I think they will be good "training wheels".

Scargo

02-17-2015, 10:06 AM

I'm retreating or perhaps only detouring for the moment. I have not received any input on dimensions for locating the wheel center-lines so I am taking a different tack, if you will.
I've fitted most of the body panels and hopefully, will get the nose on today. I've centered the rear wheel relative to clearance when I go into bump vs looks and balancing that with as minimal amount of axle angle as I can afford. I'll be re-configuring the LCA in the front with my just received, shorter Howe ball-studs. Then I'll attempt the 96" wheelbase by how I position the front LCA and hopefully have it fit in the wheel well properly.
It's fun wrangling these fiberglass body parts! Lots of trimming to do to get surfaces to align.
388173881838820

FFRSpec72

02-17-2015, 11:16 AM

I just got the side panels out this weekend to start to get them mounted so I can figure out the wing mount and other stuff. Have you decided on how you will mount the body panels yet (with what hardware) ? I just got a new body for my challenge car so that will be taking up some time also. Keep us posted on how this works out

Scargo

02-17-2015, 11:56 AM

When I get a feel for everything I will decide. Sails and doors will be bolted together and material removed where it's not needed. I may cut off the pieces of the engine cover that run up to the back of the doors and incorporate them into the sails.
It will be slick if I can tilt the front-end forward. That may not be too hard. I think the engine covers will come off together and perhaps the wing braces will be pinned on so the whole wing assembly can be detached.
I will be using Dzus fasteners in some places and I am trying to find an American equivalent version of BigHead fasteners (http://www.bighead.co.uk/english/products/standardbigheads.html) like these:
3882738828
Those I will bond on with a structural adhesive. Some studs may poke through the fiberglass to the finished side. Even nuts could be flush to the finished side.
I like the Aerocatch products. Most likely I will use those front and back. Flush and bonded-in.

STiPWRD

02-17-2015, 02:05 PM

I will be using Dzus fasteners in some places and I am trying to find an American equivalent version of BigHead fasteners (http://www.bighead.co.uk/english/products/standardbigheads.html) like these:
3882738828
Those I will bond on with a structural adhesive. Some studs may poke through the fiberglass to the finished side. Even nuts could be flush to the finished side.
I like the Aerocatch products. Most likely I will use those front and back. Flush and bonded-in.

McMaster-Carr sells these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=vy9f46

Also, Mike Everson used some of them to mount his body
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11400-Replicaparts-com-818-build-thread&p=127339&viewfull=1#post127339

Scargo

02-17-2015, 04:43 PM

Thanks! :p McMaster-Carr also has two styles of nuts (http://www.mcmaster.com/#perforated-base-nuts/=vybe02)! Now, find them in Metric... Call me crazy, but I was wanting to do as much as possible in Metric. That would just leave some suspension bolts in SAE.

Ellimist

02-18-2015, 01:16 AM

Scargo

02-18-2015, 06:16 AM

And what does this have to do with my build thread?

Mechie3

02-18-2015, 09:17 AM

It's a comment related to another comment made in your thread. All part of a story.

For laser cutting you can try Fab 2 Order. They're a shop I use that has excellent pricing.

FFRSpec72

02-18-2015, 11:50 AM

Hey Tony,
I got to admire your new challenge car body when my kit got delivered (that's my 818 hanging over it):

So you are the one that held my body up for like 4 weeks ! My body shipped on the 1/14 and it showed up on 2/15. I wish you would have done some body work on it for me !

Scargo

02-18-2015, 06:33 PM

Mechie3

02-18-2015, 06:39 PM

I like the non standard work you're doing like the S2000 hubs. I can make parts like hubs, and carriers, and brackets and other fun stuff, but I've never tried my hand at suspension design from scratch. I leave that to people who know what they're doing. Too easy to end up with something that doesn't work.

Ellimist

02-18-2015, 08:09 PM

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive. Perhaps I am out of touch with what goes on within internet forums. I don't intend to offend anyone.

I consider this to be my build thread. Ellimist, you have never posted to my build thread before. In your first post your only remark is an off-topic pleasantry to another member; nothing at all to do with my build! Then it goes on.

I'd like to know what you guys think of my build. I value the input. Many have given me valuable information and comments.
I would like for my build thread to be an informative, information-packed, technical thread from someone who is taking the road less traveled. I'd like to see posts that are relevant; having something to do with my build.

I've admired your thread and I attribute my lack of contribution to my being a novice in car projects. I've learned a lot from yours and others' threads and regret not being able to be more constructive. I see I have made a serious mistake in mucking up your thread and I sincerely apologize and won't post again after this post unless I feel it's valuable to you and your project. Regards,

Scargo

02-19-2015, 06:10 AM

Apology accepted and I appreciate the comment. At times I take this project very seriously. Other times I like to add a bit of whimsy. I worry about getting it right after I've stuck my neck out, so to speak.
I am retired. It is my main project and main focus of my energies. It's a bit of a culmination of my artistic, engineering and machinist's skills. The suspension design has been challenging. I'm almost out of the woods with it. I should have pictures soon of the last mock-up before I weld steel.
I have placed no final deadline on myself. I hope I can drive it this year. I do take off a significant amount of time during the summer to enjoy the fruits of my last labor, our cabin in BC.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/v/t1.0-9/1235196_727577030592745_607810669_n.jpg?oh=6f94682 34558389de9f715ec1617588d&oe=554A0D09&__gda__=1435222525_b1be27be1800094fdc9f129256c2f4e 2
The 818's a bit of a last hurrah. I am still capable of working on it and building most of it by myself. It becomes a bit of a crap-shoot as I aproach 70. I can still drive. I hope to be able to drive this a bit before I call it quits. How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.

freds

02-19-2015, 07:56 AM

It becomes a bit of a crap-shoot as I approach 70. I can still drive. I hope to be able to drive this a bit before I call it quits. How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.[/QUOTE]

Easy now youngster!
Please don't even think about calling it quits. I'll be 72 in a few months, and am really enjoying driving my 818 regularly....I am seriously concerned about what to do next. I have to be busy.
Love your cabin!

fred

Mechie3

02-19-2015, 08:53 AM

There's a guy local to me that autocrosses a supercharged flat 6 corvair spider (not at all stock) and road races that one and another corvair. He's approaching his 80's.

FFRSpec72

02-19-2015, 11:19 AM

How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.

He was getting up there in age as I used to race with him at Summit Point back in the 70s, he would always disappoint the young girls we had in the pits as there were some split rail fences and we would all jump/leap over them and Paul would sort of climb over them. He was very nice in the pits, down to earth, never a issue not even a large support team, like I see folks having these days.

Scargo

02-20-2015, 11:04 AM

Michael Everson's posts from 161 down (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11400-Replicaparts-com-818-build-thread&p=127339&viewfull=1#post127339)show what I'm currently dealing with on the front-end.
38906
I've had to notch out the FRP where it hits the radiator mount upper crossbar, just like Michael has done, though I haven't gone that far yet. In the image (you cannot tell it) but I'm still 1-1/2" from being back under the front bar that I've clamped to. I thought from the manual that the area I've clamped to was supposed to line up with the bar and be up against it and bolted together. This looks unrealistic to me.
What have others done? I see Michael used an aluminum angle to bridge the gap.

Mechie3

02-20-2015, 03:21 PM

Ditto. I notched out mine. I haven't made a bracket yet but need to. Several others have made brackets as well.

Frank818

02-22-2015, 08:24 PM

Scargo, maybe I missed that post a while back, but what is the reason why you aim for 99% metric fasteners?
I wish I could have done it as I am always mixing between SAE and metric, but I decided to put my priorities elsewhere if I want to drive it in 2015. :)

metalmaker12

02-22-2015, 10:24 PM

Scargo

02-23-2015, 08:54 AM

Frank, I have all the time in the world right now. I'd rather not have the confusion at the track or when I have to start tearing back into the car.
I have tried to use some of the FFR supplied suspension pieces I like and have compromised the suspension totally, in regards to being all Metric, as I don't even recall seeing Heim joints in Metric and I am using high-strength SAE hex drive cap screws in the suspension in most places.

Body: I am closing in on a front suspension setup. While I was fitting the body and trying to maximize the front suspension footprint I decided to stop considering creating new fender flares for now.
I now have these constraints: No flares, no cutting into the main, 1-1/2" frame and use the 8 X 17, 49 ET wheels with 225 X 45 Conti slicks (24.5" OD) as my must fit wheel.
As I fit the four front body parts on the car and considered bonding them all together for a tilt front-end I thought of another thing I could do. Raise the body! The sails wrap under the chassis and, for all practical purposes, dictate all the alignment and fit of the other parts. What if I cut the sails so I can raise the front or the rear or both? I'd weld six or more Dzus fastener mounts to the sides and no FRP would be below the frame. The body would rise up at least the thickness of the sail's FRP thickness.
Granted, it raises the CG slightly, but theoretically, the car could be run lower by that amount. There would perhaps be a half-pound in weight savings and I'd be able to manipulate the body a bit more. Would a 1/4" of added tire clearance at the flares make a difference? I will find out today.
I welcome everyone's input! :cool:

Scargo

02-25-2015, 07:06 PM

Today I butchered me some FRP. I trimmed off four pounds from the driver's side. I estimate that I can trim fifteen pounds off the sides before I address the "big butt" rear end or the front.
BTW, the Ingersoll Rand 529, Low Vibration Reciprocating Air Saw is an absolute gem of a tool. It is an amazing, lightweight tool that lets you "sculpt" FRP with one hand.

Scargo

02-27-2015, 10:25 AM

Here's what I've been up to. I have Loctite 50ml Durabond E-120hp (http://Loctite 50ml Durabond E-120hp Epoxy Adhesive (442-29353) Category: Epoxy) Epoxy adhesive coming to attach studs and female threaded collars, mounted on perforated baseplates. I'll be welding some tabs on the frame to hold the sail.
39147391483914939150

xxguitarist

02-27-2015, 11:02 AM

Looks nice- Did you weigh the removed bits?

Scargo

02-27-2015, 01:56 PM

I would say it has been 11 pounds so far. I only had nine pounds that didn't make it into the trash cans. I had help with this and my helper tossed some smaller pieces that I was unwilling to dig out. One pound of dust...? Guess I could weight the Shop-Vac contents! :rolleyes:
I still have the hood and rear to do. To offset that I will be adding additional brackets that look like they might be a third-pound.

Scargo

02-27-2015, 04:02 PM

Here's the latest on the front suspension design. It's within a 1/4" or less of where I want it, in regards to the wheel fitment. I get two inches of bump before the tire touches in full lock. I have over a quarter of an inch clearance from the frame at the back. Five degrees caster/2.2° negative camber (.5° camber gain per inch), 24.5" OD tire. Less that 96" wheelbase*! Closer to 95. I'll get track width later today.
I should have it finalized soon.
39157
* I see that FFR is saying the wheelbase IS 95 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadandtrack.com%2Fnew-cars%2Fvideos%2Fa4339%2Ffirst-drive-factory-five-racing-818-r-track-day%2F&ei=VhTyVJ_4Oae1sATdrIKgAQ&usg=AFQjCNH_Bg6iDP4y6EmvmJsKhcv9fqS2ng&sig2=aLaZdlBJFI618RXlgVLzNA)". I received information that it was 96" before the 95" was publicized on the 818 advertising page.

Santiago

02-28-2015, 09:48 AM

Great looking progress Glyn!

Me'thinks Rasmus is envious of your weight loss tactics ("Why didn't I think of that?!?"). :D

Best,
-j

Scargo

02-28-2015, 10:00 AM

Why thank you Dr. Santiago. (your comments are more like dissertations and much more intellectual sounding than my comments)
I wished Rasmus was around. I even tried calling him, to no avail. I wonder what happened to him?

Harley818

03-01-2015, 01:43 AM

I was going to ask you what the connection was to sunshine coast in BC, then you posted a picture of your cabin. We will have to connect when you are here this summer. I too built a cabin up the sunshine coast, on Nelson island, oceanfront. I might be able to arrange to drive the sunshine coast in an 818 when mine is done......
We will have to compare notes on cabins.
Great thread by the way.

Mechie3

03-01-2015, 10:08 AM

I might have to try out that ingersoll rand saw. I have a cheapie harbor freight saw that was ~$15 on sale. It works for about 5 seconds then binds up. I think it's an air push with a weak spring return. Cutting with it is more frustrating than anything. The 529 saw is $150, but on amazon has only 5 star reviews.

Scargo

03-01-2015, 11:14 AM

And, you can add my glowing review to the others...

Scargo

03-03-2015, 06:32 PM

Progress is slow, but, it is progress. I think you may get an idea of what I am going through with the following pictures.
I now have a rear suspension that doesn't rub the body. I am within 1/8" of the theoretical 95" wheelbase and the wheels look good in the openings.
On the front, I am waiting on expert advice about whether to go with one inch or one and a quarter inch DOM tubing and five-eights or three-quarter inch Heim joints. I'm basically ready to cut steel.
39307
39308

Scargo

03-04-2015, 06:42 PM

I know you all have been waiting with bated breath...:rolleyes:
Here are my Stoptechs. The front is good. The rear is in mockup form. I have to move some holes in the fancy, custom brackets they gave me. I was surprised that Stopech had a "racing version" of a caliper mounting bracket for the STi rear. All the work I did to the stock, steel backing plate is for naught (unless someone wants to buy them off me) because Stoptech makes a fancy aluminum mount. The only problem is, it's for the stock location and, per my request, Stoptech setup the bleed valves for the clocking I wanted (at 8:30), as shown. Now, I need to shift a few holes in their beautiful bracket to make it work. Had to pull the spindle out, too.
3933039331

Additionally, I have ordered some 17.5" trailing arms and 7" upper arms for the rear. I have my 245 x 45 x 17 Conti slicks fitted nicely under the rear. My high-HP STi rear axles fit with almost a half-inch to spare (before they bottom-out).

AZPete

03-04-2015, 06:55 PM

Wow. My brakes don't look so good now. :mad:

Tamra

03-05-2015, 03:29 PM

Looking great, Glyn!

Scargo

03-05-2015, 05:22 PM

I know. Nobody knows what to make of what I'm doing. It's painting outside the lines.
Today I ground on the pretty, new Stoptech rear brackets for a race STi (that I wasn't expecting) to make them play with the uprights . Now I have the calipers re-positioned to nine o'clock. When I say I wasn't expecting, I mean I thought the caliper adapter brackets would be "plug-n-play" brackets like the ones I put on the front of my STi. I modified my stock rear backing plates just for the occasion. Now, I don't need them. Ah, well... they're steel and heavy! Good riddance.
39339
I was told that to minimize knock-back the calipers should be at 9 or 3. Here's what I had to do to get the calipers at 9 o'clock. At the highest point (under the top caliper mounting stud) there might be a tenth of an inch removed. Then it tapers down to 0 as you go down the upright.
3939939400

Scargo

03-08-2015, 01:11 PM

I pulled off the car for a bit to make some new, adjustable sawhorses to hold it up. I put t-nuts into the sawhorses and with a wrench I can adjust the pads and level the frame.
39398

Rasmus

03-11-2015, 09:42 PM

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39148&d=1425050528

I love you.

Scargo

03-12-2015, 05:01 AM

What a pair we'd make, eh?
Today we're bonding nuts and studs to the body panels. I hope to pick up DOM steel for the arms, too.

I bought this 3"x 3" sanding drum. Has 1/2" shaft.
39562 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H684O6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I normally don't rave about tools unless they are special or like, "how could I have missed this one all my life?". I mean, I've been working with tools since I was nine... so, that's over fifty-five years. This is $25 via Amazon Prime. It uses regular sandpaper or you can buy a 3" roll. You can cut three strips from a full sheet. With 80 grit Norton aluminum oxide paper, it cuts the fiberglass like it were balsa wood and the sandpaper lasts forever. I've used it inside my fenders, where I did the lightening holes and elsewhere. Certainly some advantages to it over an orbital pad sander in the right spot.
We wear masks, use a shop vac, right at the point of where we're working, and I have a home-made air scrubber going at all times. No ill effects at all so far and I can barely smell the FRP when we sand it.

Now, I have to go hunting for a bolt stretch bracket...

longislandwrx

03-12-2015, 10:07 AM

I love you.

will make the coolant tubes easier to access that's for sure.

Scargo

03-12-2015, 07:17 PM

Knocked off three more pounds of FRP today. Sails all full of hardware.

Edit: I now have almost all the steel I need to finish the suspension.
I will save about three pound per LCA over the weight of my '08 STi, aluminum LCAs.

Scargo

03-17-2015, 05:51 PM

Latest activity. I should be welding in a day or two. Ends are made and threaded. I went big: 5/8" Heim joints. Tubing is .083 wall x 1"D. DOM. I'll reinforce it with .075 plate to triangulate it and box it in. Am waiting on the 5/8" plate for the end eye piece that receives the tapered Honda S2000 ball joint rod-end. The rear of the car is a roller and I can roll it around.
3966439665

Scargo

03-21-2015, 08:07 AM

39718What could these be for? Hint: they're big.
I got sidetracked momentarily from the LCA fabricating with the checkout of the STi for a March 28th track day. Now the semi-roller 818 is now out in the cold.

Here's the answer:
39768 Custom UCA. I took some short lateral link rods (like I have in the rear) and cut them up to make these. Stock Factory Five arms are less than half as long. These are six and seven inches long. Bigger is better! Howe racing ball joint.

Found the STi's rear suspension toe was not what I thought it was. Also with the new HVT recessed camber plates (http://www.hancheyvehicletech.com/product/810TM-SUBGR.html) I am struggling to get past -3° of front camber. Don't want to grind on my fancy Motion Control Suspension strut brackets. Well, heck, why not?
Now, with the 5-6 inches of snow we just received I am keeping my fingers crossed that LRP can get the track ready in time. I do have winter tires that will fit...

Scargo

03-22-2015, 04:29 PM

I guess an edit does not earn you a trigger as a new post. I edited the above and perhaps a few others. I'm still working on it.:p

Frank818

03-22-2015, 06:04 PM

I missed the point Iguess, but why longer UCAs? Wouldn't that screw up front alignment? Or you need longer ones to match with your STI or S2000 parts?

They don't look adjustable, are they?

Scargo

03-22-2015, 07:41 PM

I do not have numbers in front of me but my mounting points for the UCA are about four inches lower than stock 818. My LCA mounting point is lower than the S position for me to have the correct geometry for a 3.25" ride height. My spindle is farther out. All because of the S2000 upright and the fact that it is not based on a modded McPherson strut design.
I have no STi or Subaru parts in the front. In the rear I am using STi uprights, a six-speed and Driveshaft Shop HD rear axles for the STi.
I don't have rear (or front) shocks yet, but the rear is a roller and the correct geometry is established.
With the tire/wheel combo I am using I have elevated the bodywork a little in the front and have removed all excess fiberglass from the fenders (while retaining the stock exterior flare). So far so good.
Track season has started so work may slow a bit on the 818. I plan on taking the de-stroker engine components to Larry's, the most local Subaru specialty machine shop, on Tuesday and the heads ( by HeadGames) should be done.

Tamra

03-23-2015, 03:37 PM

Larry's Power out of Groton, CT did our machine work and did an excellent job. I'm assuming you're referring to the same?

Scargo

03-23-2015, 05:36 PM

Yes. I've been talking to Gary and I am taking my de-stroker motor parts to him in the morning. Get it bored, decked, honed and the crank assembly balanced. I'll probably build it myself. Same setup as Rasmus has. Micah, the designer (and now engineer for Rousch-Yates) says all the reciprocating parts are light. Says it will do 9K RPM! My DVACS heads will have stock-sized valves but everything will be lightweight. It's going to make some bad-as* low-end torque.
Andrew/Tamra: When you painted your case did you deburr it, bead-blast it or anything like that before painting? I just spent two hours smoothing up mine. I did a little blending on the oil feed passage. I don't have a single plug in the case and am afraid to blast it. I don't think you could ever be certain that you got it all the media out. I'm not going to paint it but I don't like working on a rough, sharp-edged case or heads.

Tamra

03-24-2015, 03:40 PM

We sealed off every hole and bead blasted it, then rinsed it out for what seemed like forever just to be sure it was perfectly clean. We then sent it to Larry's for the machine work. Larry's then also cleaned it before doing the machine work (if we would have known that ahead of time we probably wouldn't have spent as much time cleaning prior to sending it, as it didn't get us any sort of discount).

After we got it back, we spent another couple of hours cleaning, rinsing, etc. to make sure it was spotless. It took a lot of effort, but we were probably being paranoid since it was our first motor build.

If we did it again, I think we'd just pay Larry's to do the full bead blasting and full cleaning. You have to pay for 1/2 of the cleaning anyway since they clean it before machining.

We also had Larry's balance both the crank and the flywheel/pressure plate assembly (the full rotating assembly). Are you doing the same? We did the rods and pistons ourselves.

So are you imitating the Honey Badger build then? We did the Beefy Badger. Theoretically the Honey Badger will rev higher, but is rated for lower hp, and the Beefy badger is higher hp, but slightly lower rev limit. TIC still said our set up would be good for 10k rpm (because we built up our heads so much also) and 650hp, assuming we went dry sump (disclosure: these are the numbers if they built it, since they have proprietary bearing tolerances).

Scargo

03-24-2015, 04:55 PM

So the look is purely bead-blasted? It looks great... whatever.
I was impressed with Larry's. Clean, organized. well-lit shop. I met Kenny, the Subaru motor builder extrordinaire. And, doh! I forgot to take the flywheel and clutch. Actually, I put that in the Subaru! I'll have to get another flywheel. The clutch I took out is plenty stout for the 818. I did tell Gary that even though the crank is new and nitrited that I want it checked for run-out.
If I'm really going to turn nine grand I bettered do it right. I'm getting it decked and checked to see if it needs line honing.
Micah, the Honey Badger designer, and who put the now extinct kit together, tells me 9K. I think low 300 crankshaft HP would be loafing for this combo. The rods, as Rasmus pointed out, are beautiful. You can't even make out the separation of the rod cap from the rod. They have ARP bolts.
I did the radius on the oil passage myself and Gary said that Kenny "works his magic" on the case above and beyond that. I did not ask Kenny for specifics. I think some engine builders want to keep a bit of what they do to themselves.
Now, to order a dry-sump kit...

Tamra

03-24-2015, 05:48 PM

We painted our engine, although I've seen pictures of the engines that Larry's bead blasts and they look nearly as good!

Sounds like you're going to have a great engine! You'll have to bring it out to autox at some point and we can face off with our Honey vs Beefy badger setups :) Then we'll have to get Rasmus to join us.

Scargo

04-04-2015, 08:24 PM

I've been busy. I took time out to modify my bandsaw to run at 250 FPM so I could cut steel with it.
40243
I've made all the front suspension mounts and welded up the first lower control arm. I still have to reinforce it with .075" steel. The cardboard is fairly representative of what I'll add to both sides and then I'll close off the open end. Mock-up PVC arm and original sketch. LCA in position. Tapered hole to accept the S2000 ball joint stud.
4024440245402464024940250

Heads came in. These were done by Headgames, in NJ. Ferrea valves, Beehive springs and Ti retainers on the Pocket Ported heads. New Bronze valve guides, seals, etc...new buckets and stock D-AVCS cams. The buckets are 'bench' lashed.
40254

Wayne Presley

04-04-2015, 09:12 PM

That looks great Glyn

Frank818

04-05-2015, 05:27 PM

Wow, awesome!

Scargo

04-05-2015, 06:15 PM

Forgot to show the fans atop my GR STi radiator.
40299
Before you flame me, the photo distorts this a bit. The blades of the 13" fans actually cover the coils. Only the ring and housing extend beyond the cooling core. I'll make some aluminum brackets and epoxy studs to the bottom to hold it. I hope the radiator is up to the task...

I ordered SS hard brake line, metric, male inverted flare nuts (no bas*tard mix of fittings), SS braided, PTFE-lined hose for the Tilton reservoirs to Tilton master cylinders and adapters from -3 AN to female 10mm inverted flare. I guess I will use the Wilwood proportioning valve but I'll have to cut off a couple of SAE nuts from the provided FFR lines to adapt it. :(
For more on my brake work see this post. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11956-Brake-routing-suggestions-Post-your-pics&p=194276&viewfull=1#post194276)
Also got break-in oil and various and sundry parts which kept me from doing more welding today.
Whew! Figuring all that out took a lot of time and investigating. Tilton didn't make it any easier. The Tilton reservoir to pedal box cylinders uses -4 AN fittings and exits on the pressure end with -3 AN female. Finding the transition fittings to metric took time. Terminology or naming also slowed me down. Just learned that JIC and AN are the same except for tighter thread tolerances for real AN. Seems most stuff called "AN" is really JIC grade.
10 x 1.0 MM is the normal Japanese brake thread size (can you say Subaru?) and also what's on my Stoptechs. I wished FFR would ditch the US standard/SAE adapters and fully base the kit on the Subaru compatible parts and Metric. They had to include a couple of metric bolts for the suspension. Why the mix and adapters?
I hope everyone got their fill of eggs today!

Scargo

04-07-2015, 05:02 PM

Thought some might like to see a preview of the front suspension.
40326
This is a modified Howe suspension plate. It was 6" between centers. Now it's 5". Now the FFR upper arm fits it. Cap screw bolts come in from the rear to hold the arm. I will be doing a little reinforcing to the square tubing area on the right since surgery on the one inch tube was fairly invasive from the rear...:rolleyes:

Santiago

04-08-2015, 07:06 AM

Glyn, glad to see the progress being made.

One thing to look out for is that UCA mount. I know you're planning to reinforce the tubing for what was removed, but you might want to also consider the load path that's going to be applied here now. FFR's original design places the UCA mount in a very highly reinforced point. That diagonal bar you're using wasn't intended for direct lateral loads, so I'd be concerned with how it will hold up (even if it was not cut into to accommodate the mounting plate).

Something to think about. [I've been thinking about this lately because I just had my entire front SLA conversion kit on the Mustang recalled precisely because they miscalculated the load path and it's been bending K-members on some cars. Who knows if/when I'll have the car on track this year.]

Best,
-j

Scargo

04-08-2015, 09:05 AM

Yes, I understand and agree it must be reinforced. Perhaps I put this picture up expressly for the purpose of feedback, which I welcome.
I have been pondering how I will gain enough strength in that area. The Howe plate (which takes the adjustment "keys" or "slugs") is 1/2" thick. So, in the front it will be tied in quite well. On the other end I cut into the tube carefully, so the plate will replace all lost metal, save for the 5/8" bolt access hole on the back-side. I had thought I'd use 3/16" plate and tie it to the other 1" tubing to the right. Still, that does not seem like it would do an adequate job of resisting compressive or tension loads. A tube traversing from behind one side to the other might do the job. Even the inboard shocks would not get in the way of reinforcing the area.
I'm open to structural engineering savvy advice.

Wayne Presley

04-08-2015, 12:55 PM

Glyn, see if you can find someone with AutoCAD to do a FEA on your mounts.

Scargo

04-09-2015, 11:45 AM

I now have pieces welded in place for checking fit and alignment; hopefully for the last time. I''ll get a wheel on it pretty soon and do that.
You can see the extreme measures I went to to accommodate the floor mounted pedal box and the master cylinders. I may approach Jim at FFR with my suspension reinforcement issues, but I can't see having someone recreate the frame and suspension to do FEA on it.
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flynntuna

04-09-2015, 12:38 PM

You sir have some serious fab skills! :cool:

Scargo

04-09-2015, 05:27 PM

Thanks! I made a mistake. For the edification of anyone attempting this... I did not include any angle in the end of my LCAs. When I go to full droop the lower S2000 ball joint binds. I need to angle the ends up around 8-10° so it will not bind. That is based on a total travel of less than five inches. There are ratios involved so it is different for different setups. Learning as I go along.

Harley818

04-10-2015, 01:17 AM

Nice work.
There is alot going on there with the LCA mount, access for brake lines etc.

Scargo

04-11-2015, 07:07 PM

I bought an LGT ('05+ Legacy GT, '08+WRX) plastic manifold for my motor build. Now to work port matching it to the TGVs and heads and doing the TGV delete. More fun!

Scargo

04-16-2015, 04:03 PM

305mouse

04-16-2015, 04:53 PM

If you're using the plastic manifold you should also use the plastic tgv's that go along with it. Grimmspeed used to offer that deleted I thought, but I just checked their site and cannot find it. It also looks like they stopped their port polish and coating service.

Scargo

04-16-2015, 05:39 PM

Why "should"? I have metal ones on hand and, frankly, I've never had an issue with the stock STi metal on metal on metal in my race car.
Worst case I will use a thin phenolic spacer off the head but I've not understood why the gasket doesn't provide thermal insulation. More is better? Four more mating surfaces to leak, too. Isn't the plastic manifold supposed to run cooler?

Santiago

04-17-2015, 06:56 AM

Latest plan is to utilize the late model STi intercooler as shown. I'll start with the stock VF 48 turbo which I will port and polish. It should,if nothing else, give me a good baseline for an upgrade after tuning and testing.
Note deepened side openings and fully opened hood openings. Will likely add canards and raise the wing.

Glyn, looks like you are ditching half the windscreen too? That would make a nice clean path into the main duct (and give it the feel of an homage to CanAm racers).

When you say "deepened side openings" are you thinking of cutting the inside panel and bending it deeper towards the frame? If so, great minds keep thinking alike. I know side-scoops are all the rage these days, but it seems to me there's a good bit of extra room to be found going towards the frame not away from the body. You just need to be willing to do more body work than bolting on a pair of scoops.

Best,
-j

longislandwrx

04-17-2015, 07:22 AM

The composite TGVs let you have the benefits of a phenolic, without the extra gaskets (although people use both) there's also an additional weight savings which should be up your alley.

The oem gasket is too thin/conductive to provide any insulation.

Why "should"? I have metal ones on hand and, frankly, I've never had an issue with the stock STi metal on metal on metal in my race car.
Worst case I will use a thin phenolic spacer off the head but I've not understood why the gasket doesn't provide thermal insulation. More is better? Four more mating surfaces to leak, too. Isn't the plastic manifold supposed to run cooler?

Scargo

04-17-2015, 10:40 AM

Thanks! As I said, I've not had a problem (that I know of) with heat. I suppose the timing might be getting retarded on a hot day and I have some power loss. With the 40 row Setrab oil cooler, nine quart capacity oil system and Ron Davis radiator I've never been close to overheating, but I've never really put it to the test on a 90+ day. I'm typically on the track in spring and fall and miss out on July and August since I'm in Canada then.

As to weight, I am "somewhat" after low-hanging fruit when it comes to weight savings. The plastic manifold is for performance gains and compatibility with the goals of my engine build. I like having options and make trade-offs on occasion. I will have an un-sprung weight number soon for the front and I would be surprised if it's not 10 pounds lighter per side than "stock" components. I am hoping to have a very light car, but it will give me balancing and power options for ST-2 since I only weight 165.

Santiago:"are you thinking of cutting the inside panel and bending it deeper towards the frame?" Exactly! There's some space there to be had. While I wouldn't mind the outside, vertical line of the inlet to be out farther, I see that there are plenty of cars "making do" with the openings recessing inwards and not bulging outwards.
With some finessing of the frame corners more room could be gained but I don't know whether FFR designers thought that far in advance towards radiators/heat exchangers in the sides.
I'm sure not up to speed on airflow inside and out but Palatov's work is inspiring.

305mouse

04-17-2015, 11:31 AM

When using a plastic intake manifold, the plastic tgv's create a better seal and less heat transfer than the metal tgv's. So it really has two reasons. If you're using the metal intake manifold, stick with the metal tgv's and use a phenolic spacer.

longislandwrx

04-17-2015, 02:32 PM

Sounds good, if you have ported ones already, then I wouldn't bother.

Personally I went with composites for 3 reasons.

GS 8mm phenolics with a gasket cost $100... composites are $200 and have o-rings. halfway there already.

I didn't have jdm tgvs, so there would have been a cost/labor involved, composites are a done deal.

the composites save 3.88 lbs over stock tgvs (and I believe over a lb over jdms)

as far as I know, if you are going for max flow, the 2.5 intake outflows the plastic all day long, but there's more work involved in the swap.

here's a good thread, with a few of the flows.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2229576

The composite manifold is definitely lighter and less susceptible to heat soak.

Scargo

04-19-2015, 01:46 PM

I think it's interesting that the data from the NASIOC manifold flow tests (which I'm familiar with) showed that the worst flow was the plastic "thing" that they put down.

Plastic Thing with TB
Runner 1 293 CFM
Runner 2 283 CFM
Runner 3 (http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIV06W2G61442&nm_mc=afc-cjb2b&cm_mmc=afc-cjb2b-_-AT+-+Engines+++Engine+Parts+-+Performance-_-AFE-_-9SIV06W2G61442) 283 CFM
Runner 4 291 CFM
Average 287.5 CFM
Runner to runner max variation 10 CFM or 3.5%

What is interesting to me about these numbers is that I ported a set of W25 heads and had Supertech +1mm valves installed. With my Kelford 200-C cams (272/268 Degree, 11.30/10.50mm High Lift) I was able to get 284 CFM out of the intakes. That's pretty decent.
So, why do I need a bigger/better manifold for an essentially stock DAVCS head and destroked motor? Micah McMahan (3MI Racing) and Dominic Acia ("get a Dom tune"- now at Turn-in Concepts) both like this manifold for my destroker motor. I believe it has something to do with the size/flow and some to do with the runner lengths and a small bit to do with it being plastic and not sucking up heat.
I dug out my NA long runner manifold and measured all three. The STi has the shortest runners at 43CM. The TGV-less NA measures abut 59CM and the plastic one is 62CM!

longislandwrx (sorry, I can't remember your name),
Seems I need a set of phenolic spacers if I am going to run an aftermarket, O-ringed TGV and the plastic manifold. Can't do O-ring on O-ring.
I think I will get standard 2mm phenolic spacers (and use ported stock TGVs) unless there is a double O-ringed spacer out there. I haven't run across one. I also wonder about wrapping the manifold or at least putting gold foil on the underside. I don't believe I've seen anyone doing that.

Scargo

04-19-2015, 01:58 PM

Received the T's from of all places Low Range Off-Road (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com).
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Plated brass, they get me closer to my goal of all Metric, double-flares like the Subaru has. They seem well-made.

Hindsight

05-06-2015, 07:54 PM

Hey Scott..... so I'm scratching my head at how you were able to pull off your remote oil cooler sandwich plate the way you did. I tried to basically copy what you did but I'm running into a clearance issue with the timing cover.

I have an '07 donor so I had to take all this crap off:
http://i.imgur.com/2rukNN7l.jpg

That allowed me to then thread in the shorter threaded tube (Subaru part number you referenced in another post somewhere I saved), and then attach my Mocal sandwich plate with built in thermostat. The issue I ran into is that it won't sit flush because it hits the timing cover:
http://i.imgur.com/yeAlfm2l.jpg

I thought about maybe keeping the heat shield off and wrapping the manifold with header wrap to all me room to mount the plate this way, which would work:
http://i.imgur.com/JHiOJowl.jpg

But if I do it that way, I don't know that it would fit with headers (which I will upgrade to at some point) and it's going to result in my having even longer oil lines. If I do it like the second pic, I'll probably have 6-8 feet of total oil line (out and return) since the oil cooler has to go on the left side of the car.

My other thought is to just take a cutoff wheel and hack off enough of the timing cover that the bracket clears it. I realize that this means the cover is no longer sealed and I suppose a rock or something could fly up in there but with the plate and it's hoses in the way, I think that's a pretty slim chance. Thoughts?

Scargo

05-07-2015, 05:37 AM

It's Glyn, but I can see why you would call me Scott. My signature is a reference to Star Trek, when Captain Kirk asks Scotty to divert more power to the ship's shields. Scotty responds with, “Giving them all we got.”

I have to plead ignorance with your engine's heat exchanger pieces. I have never seen the parts you are showing me in the first picture. The exchanger itself looks somewhat like later model ones. With those parts removed it appears that the case surface is at the same height as a EJ255~257 engine and that the gasket has the same surface to seal on.
The thing is, I did this with a Canton adapter that eliminates the filter from the area. You have a "sandwich plate". The exiting heights for the hose fittings must be different.
I would cut the plastic in a heartbeat. You can always silicone around it to keep water out. If you go that route use the very best, pure silicone caulk you can get because it will have better temperature resistance.

For a related aside I will point out that, with the filter there, you are going to get heat off the headers and it's going to heat the oil as it passes through. Make sure the headers are well-wrapped completely and double layered (fully overlapped). I double-up in critical areas when I can. I have a buddy whose oil hose burst where it was closest to the headers. This caused him to spin out and the car burst into flames. He had his headers and hoses insulated and yet they were a half-inch or less from the headers. They quickly got hard and brittle over time and failed. We just found that another STi track friend, who, like you, had new hoses going to a cooler and Accusump, had the hoses hard against the headers with only a thin silicone sleeve and one wrap of insulation on the header pipe. Some of the header was not wrapped at all... We liked to freaked!
We had on hand some super insulation material. We tweaked the angle of the fittings a bit and were able to wedge that in-between the two and wrapped the headers better for a temporary fix.
This is an area, and a mod, that needs to be taken very seriously! On my first (2011) STi, I had a header to up-pipe gasket fail on my Full Race header system and it torched the surrounding area (after it blew through my wrappings) and caught stuff on fire. Fortunately I had pulled into the pits and people put it out fairly quickly but I suffered major wiring damage. Besides header wrap, a metal shield in that area is a good idea if you have a late model engine with D-AVCS. Header to up-pipe and up-pipe to turbo gasket failures may be rare, but when they occur they can incinerate anything nearby that's combustible. It can be like a blow-torch. For example, when head gaskets burn through the escaping gasses have the ability to quickly cut a path in the metal of the case and head.

longislandwrx

05-07-2015, 05:49 AM

Seems I need a set of phenolic spacers if I am going to run an aftermarket, O-ringed TGV and the plastic manifold. Can't do O-ring on O-ring.
I think I will get standard 2mm phenolic spacers (and use ported stock TGVs) unless there is a double O-ringed spacer out there. I haven't run across one. I also wonder about wrapping the manifold or at least putting gold foil on the underside. I don't believe I've seen anyone doing that.

There used to be a specific composite TGV for the plastic manifolds, no phenolics required. (no top oring groove)

http://www.zerolift.com/product-p/zl-tgv-p.htm

I was going to post this

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2709634

and realized you already replied to it.

And I wasn't knocking the composite, was just saying its not the highest flowing. I agree for your build its a good fit.

Scargo

05-07-2015, 07:14 AM

Thanks for the effort! Always interested in a different perspective or idea.
The manifold issue is an interesting one. It has been discussed on NASIOC (at least) at length. Once, when I mentioned manifold diameter and tuning length I was met with some derision since you are packing the air in with a turbo. It's like you could have almost any shape or length or volume and it would work because of boost. Then experts came back and supported me about the relevance of tuned length and volume. Now, I don't pretend to know a lot about turbocharged engines but I know that for NA motors the intake and exhaust manifold design is critical to what you are trying to accomplish in where you optimize the power band.
You want the intake air moving as fast as possible into the cylinders. So, smaller is better up to a point. High velocity increases turbulence and mixes the air and fuel better. Under serious boost this may be less relevant. Still, you want runners balanced. If they are too small you might miss out on some efficiency at higher RPMs. Then there are the pressure waves that length affects. Again, I cannot say how relevant it is under two or three atmospheres, but it makes sense t me that it is relevant at low or off-boost. I'm not sure I am understanding the importance of different sized plenums in this discussion.