LSD? yes/no opinions, types

[Quiny]

I have seen a lot on the subject and I still can't decide if I should install one or not. I would love to hear anyone's experiences or opinions. My thought is that there is so much of the cars weight on the rear wheels that it may not make much difference. I have been told that many Porsche 911's came through without one and I'm sure they still performed well.

[Silvertop]

An LSD will improve the performance of the car -- probably significantly. You just need to decide whether the extra expenditure is worth it to you. Costs may vary from $500 to about $1500 depending on what you buy. I like the Quaife, which costs about $1200 -- but they are hard to come by right now. Nobody seems to have one to sell. I ordered a Quaife unit back in August for about $1200. Unfortunately, the factory is all stacked up from some reason. Still backordered. Hoping to get it someday.............

[wallace18]

First time you punch the throttle coming out of a corner you will wish you had one. IMO.

[RM1SepEx]

I have a Quaife, Paid $1033 plus 2 hrs labor to have it installed, trans checked over, all new seals with transaxle out of the car. Quaife does require 2002-2004 CVs as the diff has male stub axles

I'm with Tom W above, IMO no 818 should be built w/o a LSD

[Rasmus]

There's the KAAZ

http://www.maperformance.com/images/P/bo1_l-01.jpg (http://www.maperformance.com/kaaz-lsd-front-02-07-wrx.html)
which is a clutch type LSD. It can be ordered in a 1.5 way which means it works full time during acceleration and only partially during deceleration. Helps to prevent lift-off oversteer a.k.a. your *** coming 'round when you lift midcorner. Think autocross.

The Quaife is a gear type, 2-way; it works full in both directions. A 2-way LSD generally makes turning the car harder. Plus side is you won't have to rebuild it from time to time like the KAAZ.

[NISMO_RB25]

I chose the Quaife, because for road course work the torsen diffs work more like an open diff when cornering. Unlike clutch type diffs they require zero maintenance which means not having to pull the transmission out ever couple of years to rebuild it. The downside is that if you lift a wheel all your power will go to that wheel and once it hits the ground you may be going off the track. Over the years I have had vehicles with just about every type of differential you could use in a car. When I built a 240SX with an RB25DET i chose a KAAZ 1.5 way as I wanted the wheels locked together for drifting. Viscous LSDs were used in other cars where cornering mattered, but you still wanted a good launch. RX7, MX5, and a couple of 240SX's had them. NASIOC has a nice writeup on everything that ever came in a Subaru and what each option is best suited for.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15812529

[Canadian818]

I'm going to wait, see how it is first so I can gauge the difference. Also, I will eventually want more power which will result in a built 5spd so it could be done at that time. Also, if you think you might go with a 6spd at some point, many of them have a LSD from factory. Food for thought.

[Rasmus]

There's also the OBX helical gear diff. Which is a copy of the Quaife. Many recommend upgrading the belleville springs (stacked washer-like springs) and changing out the bolts on the OBX before even installing it. Here's a website about it. (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm)

I believe one of our own did upgrade to the OBX and documented it on this forum. CAn't seem to find the link though.

[wleehendrick]

I always like to reference this example when talking LSD's... a few years ago, Road and Track compared the 370Z to the Cayman S (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/2009-nissan-370z-vs-2008-porsche-cayman-s). OK, it may not seem fair, but on paper, they're similar performance wise, despite the ~2x price difference. In performance tests, the Porsche accelerates and brakes better; handling wise, very similar in terms of skid-pad and slalom.

So, that being the case, when they took them to Willow Springs, you'd expect the Porsche to walk away with a victory, right? Lighter, better balanced, quicker, better braking... Nope! The Z (with a basic viscous LSD) posted a slightly faster lap time than the Cayman (which had an open diff) mostly due to the fact that it could put more power down earlier coming out of corners:

So while we've expounded on this Porsche's virtues, the Cayman is no perfect peach. The lack of a limited-slip differential up to this point — which may cost the Cayman a win at the track — could lead some buyers to look to the Far East.

[Xusia]

I believe it was Erik Treves.

[metalmaker12]

Cusco installed, it's great
Anything over say 160 whp absolutely needs a LSD period. Order of quality and performance:
1.Cusco
2. Quafie
3.kaaz
4:obx and others

Cusco Maintenance: although clutch packs are recommended to be changed out every two years on a race car, as a street car I would say like every 4-5 years at 15,000 miles a year, in a kit car that could take awhile , which is not to shabby. My friend has had cusco diffs in his Sti for 8 years and there still working fine with no change out. He puts 5-8k a year

[Rasmus]

Here's a good write up from Nabisco on how to upgrade the OBX
Part 1 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31494922&postcount=602)
Part 2 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31494922&postcount=603)
Part 3 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=31494922&postcount=604)

[WRX Dave]

Any new info on limited slips? I'm looking at the Modena torsen style. It's a bit more than I wanted to spend at $1250, but people on nasioc seem to like it.

[philly15]

Any new info on limited slips? I'm looking at the Modena torsen style. It's a bit more than I wanted to spend at $1250, but people on nasioc seem to like it.

honestly i believe it will depend on what you intend to use the car for. I originally was going to use an obx (torsen style) just for starters to save costs. However, the more i thought about it, as well as the more and more i read, my car will be an autocross/track day first, DD later type of car. As a result, and fear of lifting a wheel, i decided to cut costs elsewhere, and am now going with either a 1.5 way or 2 way clutch type differential (going with either KAAZ or Cusco). If your car will be a summer driver/weekend car i truly believe a torsen type will be plenty good. Hell, on most tracks you shouldn't lift a wheel anyway, but there is always that possibility. I didnt realize the quaife was a 2 way torsen style diff. so this also opens up possibilities since it is around the same price of the modena you mentioned.

[gwarden]

When eliminating the rear drive does the kit lock the center differential to power the front differential only.

[WRX Dave]

I'm planning on using it mainly a weekend car, but I'll try to hit up a few track days every year.

My Miata had a torsen, and I never had an issue with unloading a wheel. Granted, that's a very different power to weight ratio, but I think a torsen will be better for my overall use of the car.

Is anyone actually stocking the Quaife, or are they all on backorder now?

[wleehendrick]

When eliminating the rear drive does the kit lock the center differential to power the front differential only.

The center diff is removed completely and a locking collar (supplied by FFR) is installed in it's place.

[Xusia]

^To add some clarity, the locking collar effectively fuses the 2 shafts together - as if there never was a center differential - so power goes directly from the engine, through the gears, and to the center diff. I hope that makes sense.

[bwwooster]

My two cents is that it depends on how you're going to use the car. On a track, you'll definitely lose out on the exits of medium-speed corners (in my experience, Turn 4 at Laguna Seca, etc.), but if you're not actually racing or doing a time trial, what does that lost second mean? On the other hand, everyone I know who's had a RWD car with a limited slip diff has spun the car on the street in the wet, including me ('74 Alfa GTV). There's a learning curve involved, but when you get too much throttle in the middle of a corner with limited slip, BOTH wheels spin at once and the first (or second, or third) time it happens, you'll probably end up spinning. Without limited slip, you spin the inside wheel, the slip angle on the outside increases and you get a much more controllable powerslide. We had a lot of fun on rainy days in my brother's '68 Mustang, safe fun!

[Xusia]

^A very good point! I'm new to mid-engined cars, and reading the above makes me very happy I bought a traction control system!! :)

[Frank818]

Might need a stability control system though. :)
Or a Google driver-less car. lolll

[Xusia]

Riding motorcycles has given me nerves of ice. I am the stability control! LOL

Oh, and all you fine people have talked me into an LSD. I put in an OBX with the upgraded bolts/washers.

[WRX Dave]

Having driven 140hp Miatas on track with an open and a torsen diff, there's no question that with twice the power and 20% less weight you'll want something controlling how the torque goes to each rear wheel. Having a tire lose traction, the open diff send all power to it, then suddenly regain grip on a high speed chicane will make you try to suck up the seat cushion.

[Scargo]

Here's what I know, or think I know:
1.Cusco-friction discs (http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/catalog/pdf_catalogue_lsd.html). Spec-F is high performance version. RS has fastest full lockup. MS version is next and HD is said to be a hybrid of the other two; best for the street. They can be highly modified for customized performance (http://www.cuscousainc.com/downloads/dl/file/id/190/cusco_lsd_guide.pdf). Seems quality has varied in the past. Seems good now. One of the cheaper brands for a friction disc type.
2. Guard Transmission (http://www.guardtransmissionllc.com/products/limited-slip-differentials/)-friction discs, highly regarded, US made, expensive, Subaru is not listed but they make them. I want to say up around $3K.
3. OS Giken (http://osgiken.net/products.php?Category=subaru&SubCat=impreza&product=all&submit.x=42&submit.y=10)-24 ratcheting type plates. They are smooth so they don't wear or have friction material wear off and get into the lube. About $1,700 each. You can pay $150 and have the diff custom tuned by a factory tech for your use, power, track type, weight, etc.
4. Quaife (http://quaife.co.uk/shop/search/results/taxonomy%3A621%2C353)-Helical. Stock for an STi front is helical. Sold under the name Automatic Torque Biasing Differential (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Automatic_Torque_Biasing_Different ial&action=edit&redlink=1) (ATB). Also called "torque biasing" Differential (TBD).
2004 only came with Suretrac brand manufactured by AP Racing.
5. Modena "Torsen Style" "Torque Biasing" front differential for the 2002~2007 WRX. Supposed to be out of production. Similar to stock STi torsen diff. but better.
6.Kaaz-I think helical and friction discs, for the rear, not the front. Sells "open" front diffs. (http://www.kaazusa.com/lsd_subaru.html) Open means NO limited slip.
7. Titan (http://www.titan.uk.net/ui/content/content.aspx?ID=26)- Three types; at least two seem to be a version of friction plates. Not much info on the site. UK company
8. DJM (http://www.djm-motorsport.co.uk/Limited-Slip-Differentials-LSD.html)- Another UK company. Friction plate type. Not much info on the site.
9.OBX-helical gear (cheap~$400 or less) Cheap copy of Quaife. Needs Belleville washer and bolt upgrade/fix (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm) to ever be reliable.

FIRST, it has been hard for me to find knowledgeable people on the subject of a racing LSD for the AWD Subaru and how they should be set up. The default seems to be a less intrusive streetable setup. I have gathered that, for racing, I should not be considering any of the helical style LSDs.
That leaves friction discs. The OSG design (which is like a whole bunch of small ramps, radially on the discs) does not have friction material to wear off. The other LSD I was considering was Guard Transmission, made here in the states. Among others, it has a good Porsche racing car following.
Can I do better than OS G for racing?

[ehansen007]

I think with an EV, I'm going to need it even more as I've got instantaneous torque. Dang. More money.

[DodgyTim]

8.bx- Don't know what "smiley face" BX is...

OBX, the cheapie ($400) alternative that Rasmus mentions above

My take is that
open center -(standard subaru center) won't put power down well if one wheel loses traction
Helical - better for power down because they will transmit power to both wheels, generally 5x or 7x the spinning wheel traction can go to the non spinning wheel, but if the spinning wheel is off the ground, you get nothing...good for turn in characteristics for light cars because it acts like an open center when off the gas
friction discs - best power down but can cause understeer, especially in light cars, because the rear wheels are partially locked together even when off the gas

[Wayne Presley]

8.bx- Don't know what "smiley face" BX is...

OBX, the cheapie ($400) alternative that Rasmus mentions above

My take is that
open center -(standard subaru center) won't put power down well if one wheel loses traction
Helical - better for power down because they will transmit power to both wheels, generally 5x or 7x the spinning wheel traction can go to the non spinning wheel, but if the spinning wheel is off the ground, you get nothing...good for turn in characteristics for light cars because it acts like an open center when off the gas
friction discs - best power down but can cause understeer, especially in light cars, because the rear wheels are partially locked together even when off the gas


We have a winner, I agree completely. I have driven the Quaife and Cusco in the Elises and they feel similar. I like the 2.0 Cusco over the 1.5 for a track car because I like to rotate the car with trailing throttle.
I can get the Cuscos (in stock) and talked with the Quaife US importer about stocking them last December at PRI so they should be available any time now.

[Turboguy]

Wayne, which diff option will make throttle lifts mid corner the most "manageable"?


I'm also curious if any traction control systems can aid in this department?

[The Race Line]

Just one important think to note here as to some of the options listed. The OS Giken LSD is by far one of the best options, but is NOT available for any of the NON-STI gearboxes. If you would like a similar differential to the OS Giken, Cusco makes one that actuates similarly.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

[Wayne Presley]

On the street the 1.5 is a better choice but I like the 2.0 on the track

[Scargo]

My understanding is that there are adjustable units where you can end up with 1.7 or 1.9 if you so wish.

[longislandwrx]

anyone who needs a cheap diff..

http://www.rsaperformance.com/obx-lsd-helical-02---06-subaru-impreza-wrx.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cse&gclid=CIGDpou5obwCFUJo7AodGCIAng


$250 crazy

[The Race Line]

That is a pretty impressive price on a new differential, but I was under the impression that many of the WRX cars came with a helical differential as standard equipment, am I misinformed on this?

I assume that the pic shown on their page is representative of the difference between the different axles that these cars have yes? The pic showing male rather than female axle attachment points?

In doing some research it does not appear that there are many companies out there that make this style of differential. Most seem to require a different axle flange.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

[Wayne Presley]

That is a pretty impressive price on a new differential, but I was under the impression that many of the WRX cars came with a helical differential as standard equipment, am I misinformed on this?

I assume that the pic shown on their page is representative of the difference between the different axles that these cars have yes? The pic showing male rather than female axle attachment points?

In doing some research it does not appear that there are many companies out there that make this style of differential. Most seem to require a different axle flange.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

The stock WRX came with an open differential, none had helical LSD. The Cusco, Quaife and OBX diff are all male output shafts.

[gwarden]

The wrx forums the Honda forums all say the OBX can be a good unit if you take the time to replace the Belleville washers
I'm not sure about the $250 dollar deal but I ordered one and they say it shipped today will let you know when I receive it.

[The Race Line]

The OBX unit listed in the post earlier is a torque biased unit, so I am not sure why you would need to replace the Belleville washers. There are no clutch plates to hold in place, or put pre-load against, which is what you would use the belleville washers for in the first place. I will mention this again, the WRX is AWD so it is going to have a torque biased unit for the front differential already, it would have to in order to be AWD. A TBD is not what most consider a limited slip differential, however it does allow for a degree of power to be sent to both wheels provided that one is not completely off the ground.

I hope that this is helpful.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

[DodgyTim]

Hi Erik,
Rasmus posted the OBX rebuild links in post # 12 above, reasons for the upgrading is discussed in the links.
I think we're mixing up center differential and front differential. Front diff on my WRX (2006) is definitely open center.

More info on the rebuild here:http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm

[Wayne Presley]

Erik, the OBX washers come apart and the bolt holes through the housing are sometimes not drilled so straight. The OBX parts could stand a run through a vibratory polisher to smooth out the pieces before installation.

[gwarden]

Here is another look at how to upgrade an OBX granted its not in a subaru but the same idea
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=520556

[bompus]

Just so I am clear after all of this discussion.. the Cusco Type RS 1.5 Way Front LSD 180 C15 is one model which would work with the 818 setup? It appears to be easily configured to do what you want. In my case, a daily driver with increased traction that may occasionally be taken to the 1/4 mile strip.

[Jaime]

I have a JDM 5MT transmission from a 99/00 model, part#TY754VBAAA - first version of phase II. Can I use the same front diffs as the 02-05 USDM 5MTs do?

[Scargo]

My impression is the OBX is a cheap copy of the helical front diff that comes in the STi. Machining looks suspect from the pics I see and everyone says it must be "fixed" before use.
I am also understanding that the WRX did not come with a LSD in the front. So odd for an AWD car and a LSD is virtually a must for the 818!

[Jaime]

I just ordered one of the $250 OBX diffs from RSA Performance. I report back if the deal is real or too good to be true.

[metalmaker12]

The obx needs a upgrade to work correctly, check Erik's thread

[Jaime]

Thanks, already ordered.

At $250, I'm far more concerned that the vendor will ship me a brick with a tracking number and disappear.

[metalmaker12]

Thanks, already ordered.

At $250, I'm far more concerned that the vendor will ship me a brick with a tracking number and disappear.

Lol, yeah maybe. Just do the upgrade and you will be satisfied. It would be a pain to install it and than all hell breaks loose in the case. Erik and many other subie threads have the details.

[Jaime]

Anyone have any idea where to get a 3.9 or 3.7 ring and pinion? While I'm in there, I'll have the perfect opportunity to swap. I have 4.444 final drive right now and I think lower would be better.

[Xusia]

Jaime, when you say lower, you do mean a lower ratio, right? Not lower gearing? Lest anyone get confused...

[Jaime]

So many people are confused that instead of trying to be accurate, I was just going by 3.9 being a lower number than 4.444. I realize that I have the shortest final drive available in my transmission right now. I figure the 4.444 transmission with its really long 5th gear, but with a 3.9 final drive should be very fast in 1st through 4th and cruise really nice at a little over 2000 rpm on the highway.

[Xusia]

LOL - gotcha. The 3.9 seems to be more prolific, so you'll probably have better luck finding that.

[Scargo]

I just ordered one of the $250 OBX diffs from RSA Performance. I report back if the deal is real or too good to be true. Probably a North Korean copy of a Chinese copy of a Quaife...

[Jaime]

Early impressions on the $250 OBX diff are not so good.

25782

24 Hours later and the status is blank.

[Jaime]

Got an answer...

---------------------
Thank you for your order, Unfortunately this item is not available anymore. Your Paypal payment has been refunded and sorry for the inconvenience.

RSAperformance.com
---------------------

[DrAwender]

Hey guys I think you are all getting way ahead of your selfs regarding needing or not needing an LSD. Wait from some TRUE track side data.

Case-In-Point the GTM from Team PDG was several seconds a lap faster WITHOUT an LSD in the G50 transaxles. They have since switched to the Mendeola and thats a whole other story.

[Scargo]

Where's this data? I'd like to see FFR sharing data from their track time. As far as getting ahead of ourselves, what are we supposed to do and who do we wait on? We are like pioneers. There's not a lot of track data out there and we need to build!
I can't imagine any car would be well-suited to a wet track without a LSD.

[The Race Line]

Dr Awender, you make a interesting comparison between the need for a LSD in the 818 and to the PDG car. The GTM has a HUGE downforce wing, which allows much of the generated power to stay on the ground and the car to remain relatively flat. I would not expect the 818 to handle anywhere near this way with it shorter wheel base and lack of ground effects.

I do completely agree that there is need of actual track data, but using the GTM as an example here is probably not a fair comparison. I can tell you all that without a doubt a light short wheel base car will benefit dramatically with the addition of a true plate type limited slip differential. I HIGHLY recommend it. I think you will find that most track dedicated cars will have a LSD installed in them. There is a pretty good reason for this and I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons with anyone who cares to give me a call.

As always happy to help, and call me anytime with questions.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

[gwarden]

My OBX from RSA is due for delivery on Monday they probably only had a few at this price, I hope it works

[DrAwender]

Where's this data? I'd like to see FFR sharing data from their track time. As far as getting ahead of ourselves, what are we supposed to do and who do we wait on? We are like pioneers. There's not a lot of track data out there and we need to build!
I can't imagine any car would be well-suited to a wet track without a LSD.

This is what Richard who owns that car told me.

[DrAwender]

Dr Awender, you make a interesting comparison between the need for a LSD in the 818 and to the PDG car. The GTM has a HUGE downforce wing, which allows much of the generated power to stay on the ground and the car to remain relatively flat. I would not expect the 818 to handle anywhere near this way with it shorter wheel base and lack of ground effects.

I do completely agree that there is need of actual track data, but using the GTM as an example here is probably not a fair comparison. I can tell you all that without a doubt a light short wheel base car will benefit dramatically with the addition of a true plate type limited slip differential. I HIGHLY recommend it. I think you will find that most track dedicated cars will have a LSD installed in them. There is a pretty good reason for this and I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons with anyone who cares to give me a call.

I'm sure without a doubt that anyone that decides to actual race in wheel to wheel competition will have a large wing on it. Although the cars are different, they are at least both mid engine with low weight and gobs of power.

I'm not saying that an LSD will or will not, however don't get ahead of yourself and get real track data, thats all. Start with stock and go up form there. Don't just change a part because you found something new and shiny (unless new and shiny is what you want).

99% of the people who buy these cars will never run them at the edge but a few of us will. It was shown that on the factory car race car the stock WRX trans was weak, however that was in full blown race trim with super sticky tires (and a huge wing) driven by a very fast driver.

There was a lot of data that was generated from racing the Challenge Cars. For instance on a stock 5.0 motor factory headers gave the most power, ironic since many 5.0 guys (kits or mustangs) would change the headers first thinking that that actually made a difference but reality was it was a hinderance without other mods.

I am in the process of building a mid engine Subaru powered race car. I'll be one of those doing real world testing and I'll be sharing my data as well. My goal is run mainly WERC (endure racing) with NASA, this is the ultimate test for what works and what will last.

[Wayne Presley]

Real world data from the track is that the 818 needs a LSD to put down the power out of first and second gear corners. I spent two days in the R without an LSD and 2 days in it with a LSD. With out it I had to wait until the car was mostly straight to put the power down or it would spin the inside tire. With the LSD I was able to run out of the same corner and put down the power and pull 4 mph more at the end of the straight.

[bompus]

What are your thoughts on needing an LSD for a daily driver? My only real worry is hitting the gas too hard taking a turn or even taking off straight.. Is is something I should budget in, or just forget about for now for a daily driver?

[wleehendrick]

What are your thoughts on needing an LSD for a daily driver? My only real worry is hitting the gas too hard taking a turn or even taking off straight.. Is is something I should budget in, or just forget about for now for a daily driver?

With it's weight distribution and grip, I expect the 818 should be able to put down plenty of power with an open diff as a daily driver; I don't think you should be pushing the 818 hard enough on the street to need one. If anyone 'needs' an LSD, they should probably TITTT! I haven't driven my 818 yet, but from my experience, having an LSD in a daily driver requires you to always pay attention. If you give it a bit too much gas in a tight corner, or hit a slick/wet patch, an open diff is more forgiving (it'll spin the inside tire, which has less weight on it) with an LSD, yes you can put down more power, but once you pass the traction threshold, you'll spin the outside wheel as well, making the rear end more likely to come around. In a mid-engined 818 with no traction control...

[Wayne Presley]

What are your thoughts on needing an LSD for a daily driver? My only real worry is hitting the gas too hard taking a turn or even taking off straight.. Is is something I should budget in, or just forget about for now for a daily driver?

My cars will have them and anything over 240 RWHP will need them in my opinion.

[RM1SepEx]

If you give it a bit too much gas in a tight corner, or hit a slick/wet patch, an open diff is more forgiving (it'll spin the inside tire, which has less weight on it) with an LSD, yes you can put down more power, but once you pass the traction threshold, you'll spin the outside wheel as well, making the rear end more likely to come around. In a mid-engined 818 with no traction control...

Just like my pickup and each of my four other convertibles... :o time to pay attention and learn to drive...

[wleehendrick]

Just like my pickup and each of my four other convertibles... :o time to pay attention and learn to drive...

I agree, I daily drive RWD with LSD and lots of torque... just a counter point to those who are used to front-heavy AWD subbies, that an 818 with LSD will require a more delicate right foot!

[Jaime]

My Dodge Challenger had a lower power to weight ratio than an 818 with a totally stock 2.0L normally aspirated engine and it came with a limited slip from the factory. I don't think there's a performance oriented rear wheel drive car sold today without one.

[RM1SepEx]

actually many do it with electronics and an open diff... just apply brake to the wheels independently to shift the power application on the fly... BMW and Mercedes do it big time...

I love driving my Miatas in the winter... slippery no problem you learn to modulate the gas very quickly and put the car anywhere you want it! Fun!!!

[DodgyTim]

Sort of still on topic, I rebuilt my OBX ( upgraded bolts and washers) today
The OBX is definitely at the "less accurate" end of the machining spectrum
Two of the bolts were tight all of the way out, it seems like the casing bolt holes don't really align with the tapped holes very well
The standard washers were very low quality, flaking, and one was stamped a little too close to the other and was missing a bit at the edge
Only other comments is the rebuild is quite easy,
an M8x1.25 bottoming or intermediate thread tap helps clean up the standard tapped holes
to get the torque right you need some way to get a torque wrench onto a 6mm Allen key
25809

[Wayne Presley]

Sort of still on topic, I rebuilt my OBX ( upgraded bolts and washers) today
The OBX is definitely at the "less accurate" end of the machining spectrum
Two of the bolts were tight all of the way out, it seems like the casing bolt holes don't really align with the tapped holes very well
The standard washers were very low quality, flaking, and one was stamped a little too close to the other and was missing a bit at the edge
Only other comments is the rebuild is quite easy,
an M8x1.25 bottoming or intermediate thread tap helps clean up the standard tapped holes
to get the torque right you need some way to get a torque wrench onto a 6mm Allen key
25809


Tim, that is what the one I did looked like.
Here's the parts to upgrade them from McMaster
Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw, Alloy Steel, M8 Thread, 50MM Length, 1.25MM Pitch, packs of 25 91290A448 (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=91290A448)
Metric Belleville Disc Spring, Chrome Vanadium, 14.2MM ID, 28MM OD, 1.5MM Thickness, packs of 12 96445K278 (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=96445K278)

[DodgyTim]

Thanks Wayne
Cheers Tim

[Scargo]

[QUOTE=DodgyTim;137404]...to get the torque right you need some way to get a torque wrench onto a 6mm Allen key
[QUOTE]
$17.95 with Amazon Prime. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GYLGU8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)25816Decent quality; they have not failed me yet.

Thanks, Wayne, for supplying everyone with the part numbers!