Talk to me about flaring brake lines

[fateo66]

I'm running a 4 port master on my car and need to buy and run extra brake lines. Ideally I could buy some long lengths bend them to fit, cut and flare the end where needed but I have always heard of the horrors of flaring your own brake lines. What do I need to know in order to have perfectly sealing fittings every time? Also can you run a standard M10x1.0 metric fitting on a 3/16 brake line or do I need to buy these special fittings?

http://www.brakeconnect.com/product/brake-line-fitting-male-m10-x-1mm-316

How about the tool? Which ones have you guys had luck with? I'm leaning towards buying this one which seems to get good reviews.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOT-ROD-STREET-ROD-DOUBLE-FLARING-BRAKE-LINE-TOOL-KIT-/281051957199?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessorie s&hash=item41700087cf&vxp=mtr

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/1001rc_1949_chevy_brake_lines/

[bwwooster]

I never had much luck flaring my own lines. I wound up getting pre-flared lines at NAPA. They (and others too, probably) have a variety of lengths and sizes. I mocked up dummy lines out of coathanger wire to get an idea of the lengths I'd need, got the bits at the autoparts store and bent'em to shape.

HTH

[AZPete]

I cut, flared and bent the clutch line with no leaks. Now I'm almost done with the brake lines - complex with ABS and 2 prop valves. On my FFR roadster I had good flares the first time using a "7-piece Flaring Tool" by Performance Tool. Don't buy a cheap flaring tool!
I did not use the adapters from FFR but cut the ends off the 3/16" tubing, added M10 1.0 inverted flare fittings and then flared the ends - double flare, not bubble flare. Of course, use the US fitting for the prop valve. I've got two tube bending tools but I prefer this red neck bender with two sockets screwed to a board. And, as above, use coat hanger wire to plan the bends and also to make sure you can get the bent tubing into position. We've all completed a beautifully flared and bent tube only to discover there's no way to get it in where it's supposed to be. I suggest you do the clutch line first so you'll know your flares are leak-free before you do all the brake lines.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/tubebender.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/tubebender.jpg.html)

[michael everson]

This is the best flaring tool I have ever owned. Never make a bad flare again. If you don't want to spend that kind of money then look for one used, or resell yours when your done.
Mike

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html

[edwardb]

x2 on the Eastwood flaring tool Mike describes. Did stainless fuel and brake lines on my Mk4 Roadster with it and it worked perfectly. I did a lot of practicing and made patterns using steel lines, and they flare like butter with this tool. Literally. I've used the other kind with the split holder and even with regular steel was pretty hit and miss.

[Mechie3]

I've been using this tool. Haven't tested them yet, but they look good.

It's not the standard 2 bar/yoke tool. It's an inline tool with some hexs/flares/nuts that is relatively easy to use.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-In-line-flaring-tool-kit/_/N-26gg?itemIdentifier=238197_0_0_

[Olli]

X3 on the Eastwood flairing tool. You will not regret that purchase! Eastwood has it on sale quite often. I bought mine for $165.

Olli

[RM1SepEx]

get the Eastwood tool, the old style 2 bar system is a great way to waste brake lines... I went to my mechanic for advise... they all use more advanced tools like the Eastwood or a hydraulic one that costs over $600

I wasted a bunch of stuff... using a two bar tool

[Bill Waters]

Agree strongly with the guys recommending the Eastwood professional tool. I have used 3 or 4 of the two-bar variety and there's just no comparison. You'll find yourself looking for excuses to use pro tool. The flares are equal to the best factory ones.

NAPA sells brake line material which I really like. It is coated, annealed steel line. Bends very easily and accurately. Flares really well.

Bill

[Xusia]

The one Mechie3 recommended is NOT a 2 bar type, but costs seriously less than the Eastwood tool. Thoughts on THAT particular tool?

[Doutie]

Hi, I've been using a Rigid brand flaring kit for some years. It wasn't cheap (150.00), is a two bar design and works really well. Cheap tools allow the tubing to slip between the bars or the bars spread, leaving a parting line on the back side of the flare, which can create leaks. The only problem I still have after nearly 45 years turning wrenches for a living is forgetting to put the damn nut on the tube before flaring it.

[cChrisM]

I have both standard and metric bubble flares and went with the Mastercool unit. It even does the 45 degree -AN flares for the fuel lines as well as quick connect fittings. Perfect flares every time. http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html

I did ABS on the brakes and used the Cunifer brakes lines as they are very easy to work with and will never corrode. http://www.cunifer.com/

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The one Mechie3 recommended is NOT a 2 bar type, but costs seriously less than the Eastwood tool. Thoughts on THAT particular tool?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-In-line-flaring-tool-kit/_/N-26gg?itemIdentifier=238197_0_0_

That is the tool I used on my second set of brake lines with ABS.
I needed a third set before I could run my glider test.

I didn't put in my best effort as I thought they were looking good.
If I use that tool again, I will dress the end of the tube much better before flaring.
Bob

[Xusia]

Noob question alert: The car is metric, so why are the brake line parts SAE? Is there any real advantage to going metric on the brake lines and not having to use the adapters?

Also, other than cost, is there a reason to go with solid brake lines vs. flexible braided SS lines (everywhere, I mean)?

[longislandwrx]

Noob question alert: The car is metric, so why are the brake line parts SAE? Is there any real advantage to going metric on the brake lines and not having to use the adapters?

Also, other than cost, is there a reason to go with solid brake lines vs. flexible braided SS lines (everywhere, I mean)?

Metric lines are just another thing to source, it wouldn't be hard for you to do, FFR probably just didn't want to add another 6 part numbers/potentially backordered items.

Going all braided, there would be a lot more flex in the line. You'd be going from having 4 ft of flexible line to probably over 30. That's a lot of surface area that can expand and stretch. I imagine the pedal feel wouldn't be so good, and there'd be more chances of a failure due to abrasion.

[Xusia]

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. In the motorcycling world, it's all flexible line and works very well, so that's why I was wondering. The difference is the dramatic difference in length...

[Scargo]

I'm seeing these red adapters and brass adapters on some of the brake lines on some of the builds. I'm also hearing that some are cutting off the ends on the supplied brake lines... Replacing them with metric?
What is going on? Is FFR supplying non-metric brake lines/ends? The flares required are all inverted, standard brake system flares, correct?
Are there some pieces, like master cylinders or proportioning valves coming with 1/8" pipe threads that must be adapted to flare fittings? This seems dumb, or at least counterintuitive to me if true.
Why not supply everyone with just a coil of cupronickel brake line tubing and metric fittings? This would allow us to make our runs without the interruption of joints and not have to worry about compatibility and lessen the possibility of leaks .

[Mechie3]

They supply lines with standard 3/16 fittings (IIRC). The pink adapters are to fit the standard fittings onto the metric donor hardware (brake MC, clutch MC, clutch line, and brake lines).

The original intent was that with the lines they supply (quantity and length) you could simply bend the lines and never have to cut or flare. In reality, early builders found this wasn't really possible. We ended up having to cut or buy our own line. Some of it had to do with how we chose to run our lines (I tucked mine to be as neat as possible). Check out the lines on the green wilwood car. Ooof! Not so bueno.

I don't know if they've updated their BOM to show different lengths and or quantities of line. They likely chose the standard fitings because they already had those lengths in stock, it's easier to obtain (don't know how many places stock metric preflared lines), and might be cheaper.

Best solution is to cut off the ends, put on metric fittings, and bend and flare yourself. I wish I had though of removing all the fittings in the beginning because I ended up using the adapters.

[JeromeS13]

I cut and flared some, and used adapters in some places. The trouble I ran into was trying to find an M10x1.0 inverted flare female tee...

[VdubJoe]

The Eastwood tool works extremely well. You can also get the 37 degree adaptors for AN flares. It goes on sale quite often.

Joe

[Boog]

I figure there might be value in revisiting this now that several more 818's have been completed.

Many of the build threads are ditching the SAE->metric brake hard line adapters are buying M10x1.0 fittings that work with 3/16" hard line and making their own flares. In an idea world, what would the kit come with?

Or maybe a better way of asking is: If the kit came with no fitting, lines, adapters, junctions, etc, what would you buy? I'm assuming lots of m10x1.0 fittings since all the hard parts use them. Would you still be running 3/16" line? Or would you match the OEM metric line size (maybe in stainless)?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I figure there might be value in revisiting this now that several more 818's have been completed.

Many of the build threads are ditching the SAE->metric brake hard line adapters are buying M10x1.0 fittings that work with 3/16" hard line and making their own flares. In an idea world, what would the kit come with?

Or maybe a better way of asking is: If the kit came with no fitting, lines, adapters, junctions, etc, what would you buy? I'm assuming lots of m10x1.0 fittings since all the hard parts use them. Would you still be running 3/16" line? Or would you match the OEM metric line size (maybe in stainless)?

The 3/6" and the 4.75mm are so close to the same size the it appears to be used interchangeably.
Ideally the kit would come with 25 feet of tubing and all metric nuts. With metric tee's and a metric proportional valve.

I'm going with the ABS and no proportional valve so all my fittings will be metric. (same as donor)
Bob

[CHOTIS BILL]

I have built cars with some using all steel braided hose and some with hard line for fixed lines and steel braided hose connecting the calipers and I couldn't tell a difference in peddle feel. It may be that I am ham footed and just didn't notice but both worked equally well for me. Using hard line is cheaper but takes longer to install.

Another vote for Eastwood.

Bill Lomenick

[Goldwing]

If you build the kit as designed (i.e.: no ABS), and you don't have a flaring tool and would like to avoid the expense of a hassle free brake flaring tool, the SAE to metric adapters work well. I wanted ABS, which required flaring. It seemed logical to me that the fewer joints, the better with less chance of leaks. So, I swapped fittings to commonly available 3/16" brake line to 10mm-1 fittings. I used a couple adapters in the end. In a perfect world? We wouldn't have to deal with SAE and metric differences, lol, but I still think the fewer joints the better. But if I wasn't doing ABS, I probably would not have picked up a flaring tool.

[Boog]

So if cost was not a factor, it sounds like the highest quality solution would be to buy a couple long lengths of SS 3/16", m10x1.0 fittings/junctions, and quality bending and flaring tools like the Eastwood ones prescribed above.

I appreciate the advice.

[sponaugle]

They supply lines with standard 3/16 fittings (IIRC).

Do you know if those provided fittings are 1/2x20NF, 3/8x24NF, 7/16x20NF, or 9/16x18NF?

Jeff

[DMC7492]

Hi guys does anybody with the Eastwood professional flaring tool want to sell it to me?.

[mcwho]

eastwood and speedway auto have the same tool, $10, diff in price 239 speedway 249 eastwood.

[Buzz Skyline]

I replaced my connectors in a few places with metric, and made many flares with the ultra-cheap Harbor Freight tool. No leaks yet (on this build or any other brake line I've ever flared). The HF tool takes more care than some pricey tools, but seems to work just fine if you follow the instructions. The key thing is making sure you have precisely the right amount of brake line sticking out before you start making the flare, and then smoothing out any burrs or scratches with a bit of Scotchbrite.

This video explains it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDSL8AY0lBQ

Of course, if money's no big deal for you, go with the Eastwood tool.

[FFRSpec72]

I went with 3/16 Copper-Nickel line (roll) and used Eastwood flaring tool and Eastwood Tube straighter (both at a SEMA Special), used metric male fittings for brake master, clutch master, each of the brake line ends (to caliper), for couplers I used metric also. I used 2 bias valves so there I used SAE fiitings. I had 1 leak at a coupler (in the worst spot you can have for a leak), was not a flare issue just a coupler issue, using the Eastwood tool I had zero flare issues.

[Bob Cowan]

I'v built a lot of brake lines over the years. About 25 years ago, I bought this kit from Eastwood: http://www.eastwood.com/tubing-flaring-kit-double-single.html It works well. But it does take some care and practice. But it's inexpensive, small, durable, and works.

For AN tubing, I bought one of these. It doesn't do double flares though. https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/precision-racheting-flare-tool

The best option for tube ends are the metric ones. But, they can sometimes be hard to find. Oddly enough, the only place in my town that I could find them was the Mazda dealer. The import auto pars store had the tubing with the ends on them, but not just the fittings.

Plain steel 3/16" tubing is the easiest to find, easiest to work with, and it's cheap. Cuniform is probably better, but I wouldn't swear to it. I have a roll of it, but have never used it.

[Scargo]

I believe you mean Cunifer brake line. It and Metric fittings can be found at Federal Hill Trading Co. (http://store.fedhillusa.com/cnf3.aspx)
Pretty sure that's where I will be going for my components and I'll be ditching all the adapters FFR gives us.
I am using this Great Neck set from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/OEM-27012-Industrial-Double-Flaring/dp/B004FEHY60/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424854755&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=37+Degree+Flaring+Tool+Great+Neck) and it does the double flare quite adequately for $23.

[freds]

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/cal-van-in-line-automotive-double-flare-tool-161/10459230-P?searchTerm=flaring+tool

Used this exclusively...not one leak. It is great as it can be used in line in confined spaces as the lines are run.

[Hindsight]

Eastwood Tube straighter (both at a SEMA Special)

I really, really want one of these but can't understand why it's $80... I mean look:
39084

[FFRSpec72]

I really, really want one of these but can't understand why it's $80... I mean look:


It really works nice, smooth operation, I have no idea why so much either, at SEMA these were around $58, so that pushed me to buy one and they had them at the show to try out.