Internal CV Spline Mismatch

[freds]

I have an 06 Donor & installed an OBX LSD in the transmission which changed the output to male splines.

Doing this means the FFR axles for an 06 will not work. Jim advised getting 04 FFR axles and 04 inner and outer CVs.

He also cautioned me that aftermarket CVs from Cardone had different CV to Axle splines and could not be used.

I bought 04 salvage axle assemblies. I stripped the CVs and found the two rears that I bought had different CV/axle splines. (Who knows if the salvage yard sends you are a “true” Subaru 04) One of them matches the FFR axle and one of them doesn't. So I have to get another rear outer CV.

The problem is….How to tell what splines are in the CV before you buy it and take it apart!!!!

The only externally measurable difference I found is:

Axle Diameter with “good” usable CV is ~0.915
Axle Diameter with “bad” unusable CV is ~0.950

I don’t know if this is always the case, but for those of you with the same issue, maybe this will help.

Any information anyone can add to this thread…please do!

Also anyone with a spare 04 rear lying around please PM me….as you know I need it! Right now I'm 3/4 finished with the axle assemblies

Top Axle alleged Subaru oem 04 incorrect splines ~0.950 diameter axle.
Middle FFR supplied Axle
Bottom 04 (?) with correct splines to match FFR axle ~0.915 diameter.

20334

[RM1SepEx]

I'm going to have the same problem with my 05, I added a Quaife

I bought 02-04 front axles to replace the inners, matching the transaxle stub shafts

so now God only knows what I have until I pull them apart? and my original rear outers won't work with the 02-04 inners either so I need a et of 02-04 rears too? And they are not consistent?

UGH

[Wayne Presley]

I have an 06 Donor & installed an OBX LSD in the transmission which changed the output to male splines.

Doing this means the FFR axles for an 06 will not work. Jim advised getting 04 FFR axles and 04 inner and outer CVs.

He also cautioned me that aftermarket CVs from Cardone had different CV to Axle splines and could not be used.

I bought 04 salvage axle assemblies. I stripped the CVs and found the two rears that I bought had different CV/axle splines. (Who knows if the salvage yard sends you are a “true” Subaru 04) One of them matches the FFR axle and one of them doesn't. So I have to get another rear outer CV.

The problem is….How to tell what splines are in the CV before you buy it and take it apart!!!!

The only externally measurable difference I found is:

Axle Diameter with “good” usable CV is ~0.915
Axle Diameter with “bad” unusable CV is ~0.950

I don’t know if this is always the case, but for those of you with the same issue, maybe this will help.

Any information anyone can add to this thread…please do!

Also anyone with a spare 04 rear lying around please PM me….as you know I need it! Right now I'm 3/4 finished with the axle assemblies

Top Axle alleged Subaru oem 04 incorrect splines ~0.950 diameter axle.
Middle FFR supplied Axle
Bottom 04 (?) with correct splines to match FFR axle ~0.915 diameter.

20334

I don't think there is an easy way to find out which you have until you take it apart, sorry.

[fateo66]

For the rears you can measure the diameter of the inner cup to determine if it has a WRX sized shaft and spline count or if it has the impreza sized shaft and spline count.

The inner rear cup on a impreza axle will have a diameter of about 71.5mm

The inner rear cup on a WRX axle will have a diameter of about 75mm

I too agree with jim and all the aftermarket stock replacment axles I have seen are the smaller impreza sized ones.

[freds]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check the cup diameters...That might be the really good tip.
The "good" news is at about $60 a salvage assembly, you can still buy 3 and have spent less than a new Subaru unit. Pretty poor "good" news, I know.

fred

Meanwhile anyone with a spare 04 rear outer. I'm a motivated buyer!

[Samiam1017]

I may have a complete extra set. Let me look and see if they all fit my trans and rear hub

[metalmaker12]

The splines stubs can come out, so you could use either 2002 male or with stubs 2005 up, my 02 with a cusco stubs come out, so I could use either inners

[metalmaker12]

I don't think there is an easy way to find out which you have until you take it apart, sorry.

For the most part, but oem axles are painted green and have fine spline ends, the after market are never green and the are coarse spline inners. You still gotta take apart and confirm

[freds]

The splines stubs can come out, so you could use either 2002 male or with stubs 2005 up, my 02 with a cusco stubs come out, so I could use either inners

On the OBX they don't.

20348

[freds]

For the most part, but oem axles are painted green and have fine spline ends, the after market are never green and the are coarse spline inners. You still gotta take apart and confirm

I was hoping that that was a good clue. It wasn't. The rear outer that doesn't fit is also painted the OEM Subaru green...Unfortunately!

[freds]

I may have a complete extra set. Let me look and see if they all fit my trans and rear hub

I'll be waiting to hear!!! Thanks for taking the trouble.

fred

[Samiam1017]

Ok I have 02 hubs front and rear that I'm using. I'm using an 04 trans with an obx LSD. Both sets of axels I have fit the 04 trans and 02 hubs. I did notice the front out splines are bigger dia then the rear outer splines but that makes no difference to what we are doing. I have a complete set of extra so let me know what you need.

[freds]

Ok I have 02 hubs front and rear that I'm using. I'm using an 04 trans with an obx LSD. Both sets of axels I have fit the 04 trans and 02 hubs. I did notice the front out splines are bigger dia then the rear outer splines but that makes no difference to what we are doing. I have a complete set of extra so let me know what you need.


Thanks, I will PM you

fred

[metalmaker12]

On the OBX they don't.

20348

Sorry never used an obx, so that stub is part of it, ok sorry, just the ones I have used you have options. Hey I would rather use the 05 up inners if someone wants to trade. Damn my clue didn't work lol, those aftermarket guys are getting smarter

[freds]

For clarity, this is what I have.

One picture of inside end one with the CV "spider" half onto one of the FFR axle splines. Both inside CVs I have fit just fine.

The other picture of an outside CV half onto the FFR axle spline...no problem. I just don't have another outside CV with the "coarse splines" to finish the job

Both pictures show a FFR axle without anything on its ends.

fred

2035320354

[Samiam1017]

Do you know the spline could of what you have and what you need. I didn't take mine apart yet so ill have to tomorrow and see what I have. I wonder if the axels are one of the parts that are year specific to what FFR sends?

[longislandwrx]

More "good" news is that Subaru sells just the CVs so you don't need to buy the entire axle assembly.

[Canadian818]

I think I understand, lol. I have a '07 RS donor, and if I install an OBX LSD my transmission goes from having two female spline "holes" to male shafts. So I'll need to buy '02-04 OEM subaru CV joints and tell FFR that I'm using a '02-04 transmission to get the proper axle adapters? But I can still use my other '07 outter bits? And if I don't install a LSD, then FFR will supply the adapters to mate to the '07 CV's?

[longislandwrx]

Correctamundo.

[Erik W. Treves]

"And if I don't install a LSD, then FFR will supply the adapters to mate to the '07 CV's? "

FFR supplies only the AXLES...not sure what "adapters" we are speaking of.

I converted my "inny" transmission" with a "outy" OBX LSD...the inner CV was not the problem. The Outer CV AXLE spines being corse did not match my outer CV joint. Both my donor (02) and Brand New axles from Auto zone (02-05) had fine splines on the outer CV joint.

[longislandwrx]

I read his "adapters" as modified axle shafts.

[Erik W. Treves]

10-4..... it just seems like we are taking about diff output shafts , inny vs outer diffs, and FFR replacement shafts and I got confused... at the end of the day it's the outside CV joint that is the issue the OP was pointing out I think...just trying to follow along as I wait for my axles...

[freds]

More "good" news is that Subaru sells just the CVs so you don't need to buy the entire axle assembly.

Yes, but as I noted above...They cost about $235 each.
In the long run it may be cheaper, certainly easier, to buy new Subaru units...than screw around blindly finding "correct" ones.
I now consider myself lucky that I happened to buy one that was correct.

[longislandwrx]

Correct, even with the right ones from a upick, you don't know the wear level... Unless you are finding ones with good boots, which is rare around these here parts.

[freds]

Communicating with Eric and Jay today the story is:

Subaru OEM axles have the FINE/FINE spines, and they are having new axles made to replace those supplied by them with the odd FINE/COARSE spline combination.


For the record:
The "incorrect" axles I got from FFR have: Inner Splines Diameter ~0.922 (23.4mm) with 29 splines
Outer Splines Diameter ~0.906 (23.1mm) with 21 splines "COARSE"

The Subaru OEM axles have: Outer Splines Diameter ~0.922 (23.4mm) 29 splines "FINE". Identical to the Inner Splines.

(Strangely, I got one salvage assembly that had the outer splines "COARSE" and one that had "FINE" outers.......which apparently was an "aftermarket" unit)

{Correct me if this is wrong}

fred

[C.Plavan]

Bringing this back to the top. What Splines are FFR supplying now? 29 splines?

[RM1SepEx]

They can supply with two types, coarse and fine, however neither fit my "new" 02-04 CVs.

Like you I installed a LSD (Quaife) I found that you can get the correct stock CV by buying rebuilts from NAPA.

They were only $60 each and fit perfectly, they only rebuild stock OEM CVs

[C.Plavan]

They can supply with two types, coarse and fine, however neither fit my "new" 02-04 CVs.

Like you I installed a LSD (Quaife) I found that you can get the correct stock CV by buying rebuilts from NAPA.

They were only $60 each and fit perfectly, they only rebuild stock OEM CVs

Good to know. Thank you

[AZPete]

The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg.html)

[ehansen007]

BTW guys, if you're looking for CV inners that will work, you can get them on ebay for $56 shipped. They went on a little tight but they went on all the way. Comes with a boot, grease, clamps, and snap ring.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNER-CV-JOINT-29X41-3X25-SUBARU-IMPREZA-G11-2000-2007-OEM-28321-FE082-/261306898937?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2002|Submodel%3AWRX&hash=item3cd71ad9f9&vxp=mtr

[fateo66]

The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg.html)


This could be an OEM 08+ WRX/ STI axle because I know on my STI the OEM axles do not have the inner ring.

[AZPete]

I haven't ordered the Amazon CV because the photo shows a female outer housing and my 06 needs a male housing. However, the photo shows 29 splines which is good. Indeed this is confusing!
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg.html)

My Subaru dealer parts guy says they don't have rebuilt CVs for the turbo models and the new front inner CV is $221! Arrgh!
I'll keep looking.
Pete

[RM1SepEx]

The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/Frontaxle-OEvsbogus.jpg.html)

I bought my early female inner axles from NAPA


Part Number: NMD 953170
Product Line: NAPA MaxDrive
retail 55 with 12 core

I got them for under 60 inc. core charge with my discount from them... They tell me they ONLY rebuild stock OEM CVs slipped together easily now my Quaife equipped 05 transaxle is all set.

[AZPete]

I hear you, Dan, but NAPA NMD 953175 is listed for an 06 WRX and it's not rebuilt OE. I wish it were! I've been calling boneyards and none have an 06 WRX, so far.

[RM1SepEx]

look at my number... 953170, it is for the early, 02 WRX because with my Quaife I have the external output shafts from the diff and female inner CVs just like you need with the OBX.

If you need stock OEM CVs I have a full set of 05 axles, 70K miles, I used another pair for my fronts. Want me to verify that they are OEM for you? Like everything else that I have that I don't need they are for sale! :-) I can have an answer for you in an hour

[C.Plavan]

How about some pictures/ specs on the FFR axels they ship? 29 spline for turbo? Mine did not come with my kit, I hope they are shipping them soon.

[wleehendrick]

How about some pictures/ specs on the FFR axels they ship? 29 spline for turbo? Mine did not come with my kit, I hope they are shipping them soon.

My kit (10/12 production, delivered last weekend) had the axles in it, so I would guess you should get yours soon. The're in storage with other parts I won't need for a while, but I was going to get over there today, and would be happy to take a photo/measurements if it would help (06 WRX donor config).

[wleehendrick]

My kit (10/12 production, delivered last weekend) had the axles in it, so I would guess you should get yours soon. The're in storage with other parts I won't need for a while, but I was going to get over there today, and would be happy to take a photo/measurements if it would help (06 WRX donor config).

OK, my axles (for an 06/07 WRX donor) are 29 spline on each end. Here's a photo if it helps:

23103

[C.Plavan]

OK, my axles (for an 06/07 WRX donor) are 29 spline on each end. Here's a photo if it helps:

23103

Thanks- Just wanted to confirm 29/29

[Canadian818]

I re-read this thread and my head is spinning again. Is there any LSD's that will fit my 07 RS and keep the female splines so that i can re-use my CV's with only 30k on them and avoid all the hassle? I was originally going to go with an OBX, but I'm not sure its worth the trouble, or even all that cheaper in the end compared to a proper LSD.

[Canadian818]

I've been searching, perhaps in the wrong place, but i wasn't able to find any LSD's designed to use the 06-07 axles.

[Mechie3]

They make them, they're just not cheap.

[Canadian818]

They make them, they're just not cheap.

Know who makes them Mechie3? I'm assuming $1500+

[Mechie3]

http://www.z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?model=wrx&cat=driveline&prodid=7751

I believe that takes male axles.

[RM1SepEx]

the Quaife uses 02-04 axles. I have one in my 05 transaxle and had to buy new front axles with male inner cv joints. I picked up my Quaife about a year ago for $1033 and had it installed for 2 hrs labor at a local Subaru dealer

The OBX clone that Erik used (see his rebuild thread) also uses 02-04 axles. It cost around $500

[NISMO_RB25]

I haven't ordered the Amazon CV because the photo shows a female outer housing and my 06 needs a male housing. However, the photo shows 29 splines which is good. Indeed this is confusing!
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg.html)

My Subaru dealer parts guy says they don't have rebuilt CVs for the turbo models and the new front inner CV is $221! Arrgh!
I'll keep looking.
Pete

I just got my transmission back from the shop where a Quaife was installed in my 2006 donors transmission and now I am in the same boat as everyone else. I just ordered a set from Ebay for $113 shipped that are compatible with the 2002. Since it is just the inner (at transmission) I am hopeful that this is what was needed to fit the FF axles. Once they arrive and I can confirm they work I will post where I got them and the part numbers.

[DodgyTim]

I believe the gearbox casing seals at the inner CV joints are different between the 2002/2004 models (male shafts) and the 2006 (female).
Can anyone confirm this?
I'm installing an OBX (male shafts) into a 2006 and I think I have the CV's sorted, but may be short 2 seals to suit the early model.
If they are different, does anyone know the part number for the early seals?
Cheers

[C.Plavan]

I believe the gearbox casing seals at the inner CV joints are different between the 2002/2004 models (male shafts) and the 2006 (female).
Can anyone confirm this?
I'm installing an OBX (male shafts) into a 2006 and I think I have the CV's sorted, but may be short 2 seals to suit the early model.
If they are different, does anyone know the part number for the early seals?
Cheers


I installed a TSB (Not an OBX, but should me be the same seal wise). Yes, you have to use the earlier stub axle seals. I just yanked the old ones out, then tapped the new ones in with a big socket. Just make sure not to tap them to hard, or too far down. You want them flush with the case. There is a right and left seal (they have small arrows on the seals). Lightly lube with some oil before tapping them in.
Part numbers I used are-

806730042 (Left)
806730041 (Right)

They are cheap- Grab a couple of each to be safe.

[DodgyTim]

Thanks Chad, much appreciated
I agree, a couple of each and keep them as spares if not used
Cheers

[NISMO_RB25]

I haven't ordered the Amazon CV because the photo shows a female outer housing and my 06 needs a male housing. However, the photo shows 29 splines which is good. Indeed this is confusing!
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/AmazonfrtinnerCVvs06OE.jpg.html)

My Subaru dealer parts guy says they don't have rebuilt CVs for the turbo models and the new front inner CV is $221! Arrgh!
I'll keep looking.
Pete


I ordered these, part number 0811-1002 to be specific. I just test fit them and they match the new axles that came with the kit and the output shafts on the Quaife differential I had installed in my 2006 transmission. So for anyone having this issue it is a simple and cheap solution as they were only around 50/each shipped.

[mekohler]

Just for clarity, please help me know if I am correct.... I have an 06 WRX, I am installing an OBX LSD, I received the axles from FFR that are for the 06 WRX. If I order the inner cv 0811-1002 from above and use the remaining parts from the 06, and the axles from FFR, I will be good? I am just trying to ensure I do not burn through any more money than needed. Thank you in advance.

[C.Plavan]

I ordered these, part number 0811-1002 to be specific. I just test fit them and they match the new axles that came with the kit and the output shafts on the Quaife differential I had installed in my 2006 transmission. So for anyone having this issue it is a simple and cheap solution as they were only around 50/each shipped.

I can tell you they fit. I ordered those. I'm having the issue of finding the outside CV joint in 29. I don't want to play CV Axel Roulette, but it looks like I will have to.

[mekohler]

Thanks for the reply, I will order them.

[metalmaker12]

I used a cusco rs 1.5, same as FFR 818R, which I had to use the 06 male inners because the 02-04 stubs lock in place from the inside and you only have access with an open oem diff. Once you put a LSD closed diff, you can no longer lock the 02-04 stubs in, so the 06 inner cv is needed. This is true for all LSD for 5 spd trannies. I have pics if need be

[Eshelman27]

So, reviving an old thread...
I am having the same issue with the FFR axels (29/29 spline) and aftermarket (Trakmotive brand) cv axles, where the rear outer cv's do not have the 29 splines. Has anyone found an aftermarket rear axle with the 29 splines for the outer cv joint?

[carrera1984]

I'll check my receipts to get you a part Number tomorrow. I believe it was napa that ended up having OEM rebuilds. The shape, size and markings on the outside of the cvs and shafts are good indicators that it's OEM rebuilt. You just need to print out a known good set on paper and bring it in the verify it at the parts store. Most sell aftermarket as rebuilt from my experience. It was a nightmare.

[Wayne Presley]

You guys know that FFR sells drop in complete halfshafts right?

[UnhipPopano]

At some point in the past it was posted that they were selling them, but neither the brochure nor the online parts catalog show them. Anyone know where FF hid the information?

[Wayne Presley]

At some point in the past it was posted that they were selling them, but neither the brochure nor the online parts catalog show them. Anyone know where FF hid the information?


If you look on the 818 order sheet they are listed near the bottom of the options

[THE FURNACE]

Whitby Motorsports only supplies the axle shafts. No complete half shafts for the Canadian completion kit. Bummer.

[Eshelman27]

carrera1984 - were you able to get a part number on the OEM rebuilds?

[carrera1984]

carrera1984 - were you able to get a part number on the OEM rebuilds?

I have written down NMD 952299. Napa auto parts. Originally the guy said they could have been aftermarket when they didn't have cores but now they have so many cores there all oem remans. Do not get the NMD 942079 . That's the new aftermarket. I would bring in pictures of what a known oem housing is and compare with the parts guy before you buy. That's what I did. If I remember I'll post up a pic tomorrow. Works been a ***** lately so I'll do my best.

[carrera1984]

Another option would be to call up Detroit Axle and order one up. They do new oem remans and aftermarket remans when there out. Just explain that the shipping department needs to confirm with a parts guy/manager that only oem remans to be sent...tell em spline issue bla bla bla.

[flynntuna]

Reviving this thread to vent my frustrations. I bought my project from another party who started it as a non donor build. I have an 04 transmission from a forester Xt, and front hubs from an 02 Impreza and rear hubs from an 04 Impreza . I've had to buy four axles just for the outer cv stubs since the inner ones didn't work with the forester transmission. I recently bought two front axles for the inner cv joints. When they arrived I checked to see if they fit the tranny, good news they slipped in perfectly. Today I decided that I should tackle this messy job of pulling the ends off an finish the axles. I got one apart and started transferring the parts to the FFR axles when I noticed the splines don't match :mad: I looked in the pile of partial axles I have accumulated and took apart one of the inner cv joints and the splines matched ;). One axle done. I took apart the other axle, the spline count was the same but the diameter of the part was too big it just spun on the end of the FFR axle. :mad: now what, a other axle just for the inner part with the right spline count and correct diameter ? :mad: the stress reducer on my wall wasn't enough. Thanks for the time to vent.

[NevaLift2Shift]

Reviving this thread to vent my frustrations. I bought my project from another party who started it as a non donor build. I have an 04 transmission from a forester Xt, and front hubs from an 02 Impreza and rear hubs from an 04 Impreza . I've had to buy four axles just for the outer cv stubs since the inner ones didn't work with the forester transmission. I recently bought two front axles for the inner cv joints. When they arrived I checked to see if they fit the tranny, good news they slipped in perfectly. Today I decided that I should tackle this messy job of pulling the ends off an finish the axles. I got one apart and started transferring the parts to the FFR axles when I noticed the splines don't match :mad: I looked in the pile of partial axles I have accumulated and took apart one of the inner cv joints and the splines matched ;). One axle done. I took apart the other axle, the spline count was the same but the diameter of the part was too big it just spun on the end of the FFR axle. :mad: now what, a other axle just for the inner part with the right spline count and correct diameter ? :mad: the stress reducer on my wall wasn't enough. Thanks for the time to vent.

I had good luck finding a Subaru performance/rally shop (can't remember name) in the northwest that had some of the green OEM joints. They sent me two front inners that worked perfect. My donor had the OEM rear axles, so that was one less headache.

[flynntuna]

It's just frustrating that I just need an spider tripod assembly to fit the FFR axle and the inner cv joint. I bought an inner cv joint and spider assembly from Amazon. Hopefully it's the right size. Who said Subarus are like Legos?

[flynntuna]

SUCCESS! The new inner cv joint and spider assembly came in today. It fits! Axles done.