Papa's Retirement Type 65 Coupe Build - Index in first post

[Papa]

I agree about the rear quarter windows. I was hoping I could somehow cut out the horizontal divider, but the glass is actually two pieces and the divider anchors those two pieces.

A custom 1 piece tempered glass window would cost thousands. Lexan would be a step backwards, but Send-Cut-Send can make it for you if you send them a template. And I'm sure the plastic frame part could be re-sculpted with HSRF/filler and painted.

I'm all ears if anyone has ideas (or maybe we should make a separate thread for Papa's sake [he may like them as is after all ])

Custom tempered glass probably isn't as crazy expensive as you're imagining.
I've used this company frequently for various past projects (not car related) and they've been great.
One Day Glass

They also have an Auto Glass Reproduction division.
Sanders Repro Glass

I don't hate the quarter window, but agree that a cleaner design would be more appealing. I also don't mind having the discussion in my build thread. One thing I haven't figured out yet is how the forward edge of the door gets finished since the entire thing gets removed to install the frame. I've also reached out to Jeff Kleiner about how installing this kit impacts how the car is prepped and painted.

[Papa]

For those looking for a pressure bleeder cap for the FFR reservoirs, this cap from Motive is a perfect fit (45mm European thread).





Today I focused on two areas. First, I wanted to get the heater hose connection in the passenger footbox done. I bought four of the Gates Powergrip heat shrink clamps and was able to make the connection between the heater evaperator and the bulkhead on the front of the footbox. I used a heat shield to protect the heater while getting the heat gun in the tight spots.





I also put the condensation drain together, but still need to secure the tubing to the chassis and run the tube through the floor pan once I get/find the proper grommet.



Next up, I started finalizing my electronics layout. My original placement for the fuse sub-block would have made it very difficult to change fuses, so things got moved around a bit and I think the new placement will work.





All in all, a pretty productive day in the shop.

[PNWTim]

[QUOTE=Papa;601438]For those looking for a pressure bleeder cap for the FFR reservoirs, this cap from Motive is a perfect fit (45mm European thread).





Thanks for this Dave as I was one of those guys looking for a cap. Chris was kind enough to remind me that the overflow tank (which I am not using) has the same lid, so I am drilling and tapping it with an automotive fitting.

I remember shrinking those clamps by the evaporator box. I think I used a piece of cardboard as my heatshield .

[Papa]

[QUOTE=PNWTim;601464]

For those looking for a pressure bleeder cap for the FFR reservoirs, this cap from Motive is a perfect fit (45mm European thread).

Thanks for this Dave as I was one of those guys looking for a cap. Chris was kind enough to remind me that the overflow tank (which I am not using) has the same lid, so I am drilling and tapping it with an automotive fitting.

I remember shrinking those clamps by the evaporator box. I think I used a piece of cardboard as my heatshield .

I considered that approach as well, but since I already had the Motive bleeder system, I just added the cap to the tool collection.

Dave

[Papa]

The VMP coolant expansion degas tank arrived today after a couple of weeks of waiting on backorder. This looks like a much more manageable solution that should fit well. I'm going to hold off on deciding where to mount it until I have the engine in and can see what kind of space I have to play with.



Next, I committed to the placement of the electrical items that will be mounted on the front trans cover panel.



That leaves me with a couple of decisions now for the dash extension panel. First, what portion of the panel that I mounted the other stuff on will get cut out to give me room to put the heater and A/C controls in the extension. Next, what else might I need/want to mount in the extension panel. Right now, I just have the HVAC controls and the Wilwood EPB switch. I'm also likely to put one or two USB charger ports and maybe another switch or two for the fog lights, defrost actuator I'm toying with, etc.



Finally, I started pressing in the PEM studs that I want to use to fasten my glove box, instrument panel, and dash end pieces to the dash with. So far, so good!



I'll be filling the unused rivet holes and ensuring the stud heads are perfectly smooth and flush with the dash so that they don't show through my Alcantara upholstery that will be covering the dash.

[Papa]

I stumbled across this wheel today ... what do you guys think?

[burchfieldb]

I stumbled across this wheel today ... what do you guys think?

Those are nice. Who makes them?

[Papa]

Those are nice. Who makes them?

Stark Forged Wheels

[PNWTim]

That's a good looking wheel.

[burchfieldb]

They have some pretty cool wheels.

[Lugnut Mark]

Love the wheels Dave ….. you should pull the trigger on those definitely different ! Btw I painted 57 Chevy 4 door yesterday close to the color your thinking …. He did his in FORDS magnetic grey metallic with a silver sharkskin roof color …. It looks killer ! IMG_2807.jpgIMG_2803.jpgIMG_2791.jpg

[Papa]

Love the wheels Dave ….. you should pull the trigger on those definitely different ! Btw I painted 57 Chevy 4 door yesterday close to the color your thinking …. He did his in FORDS magnetic grey metallic with a silver sharkskin roof color …. It looks killer ! IMG_2807.jpgIMG_2803.jpgIMG_2791.jpg

Those colors look really nice.

[Ejzajac]

I stumbled across this wheel today ... what do you guys think?

Now that's a wheel! Think it would look great on a coupe and probably on a roadster too.
Has anyone used Stark Forged Wheels?
Still looking for wheels for my MK5.

Ed Z

[Papa]

Now that's a wheel! Think it would look great on a coupe and probably on a roadster too.
Has anyone used Stark Forged Wheels?
Still looking for wheels for my MK5.

Ed Z

Hi Ed,

My concerns are that these are made in China, which isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but also that there are very few reviews of these by real people. Those I've found are mixed, but it's hard to say if the negative reviews are expecting to get $10,000 wheels for $3,700 or if there is more that isn't coming through in what I've read. A lot of discussion about if they are structurally sound, but no evidence of any structural issues that I've found. I won't need wheels for a while, so I'll keep digging and we'll see what turns up, if anything.

Dave

[i.e.427]

I stumbled across this wheel today ... what do you guys think?

They look like they'd be a ***** to clean. I base a lot of my choice anymore on exactly that. If I was 30 years younger and loved to spend all of my time detailing the car, maybe. Not so much anymore.

Sorry Dave, you asked.................

[Papa]

They look like they'd be a ***** to clean. I base a lot of my choice anymore on exactly that. If I was 30 years younger and loved to spend all of my time detailing the car, maybe. Not so much anymore.

Sorry Dave, you asked.................

That I did, and I appreciate the input.

[flight_83]

They look like they'd be a ***** to clean. I base a lot of my choice anymore on exactly that. If I was 30 years younger and loved to spend all of my time detailing the car, maybe. Not so much anymore.

Sorry Dave, you asked.................

switch to ceramic brake pads and you eliminate 90% of cleaning.

[Papa]

Today I finished setting the rest of the PEM studs to attach my dash ends and the instrument cluster panel. After fighting with the 1-ton arbor press that was making pressing the studs very difficult given the lack of leverage, I did what most old dudes would do and used a sledgehammer! I drilled and put the stud into the dash panel, captured the threaded end in a piece of 1/2" thick aluminum bar stock backed with a 3/8" piece of steel bar stock. I then placed another piece of 3/8" thick steel bar stock on the head of the stud and smacked it a couple of times with a five-pound sledgehammer. It worked perfectly!





I can now mount the dash ends, instrument cluster panel, and glove box to the dash with no bolts through the upholstery!



Speaking of upholstery, I couldn't resist laying the stitched Alcantara on the dash to get a feel for how it is going to lay over the corner.



The last thing I did today was to run the A/C evaporator drain through the floor using a very tightly-fitting grommet. Now I just need the larger cushion clamps to show up and I can call that task complete.

[burchfieldb]

Sometimes you just have to break out the old persuader. It's coming together nicely!

[Lugnut Mark]

Nothing like the BFH to get the job done ! Lol looks super clean nice work !

[460.465USMC]

Nice progress, Dave. Things are looking great! Times two on the Motive cap. That's the exact one I used, and agree it works perfect on the F5 reservoirs.

I wasn't able to fit my HVAC controls that far down the dash extension, so they ended up on my dash. Just not enough clearance behind. But I know you were shipped a different controller unit. Nice. Keep up the great work, and thanks for sharing all the good info. Seeing your AC drain tubing in the PS FB, reminds me of yet another task I should have completed before sealing up that FB. Doable now, just not as accessible.

[Papa]

Nice progress, Dave. Things are looking great! Times two on the Motive cap. That's the exact one I used, and agree it works perfect on the F5 reservoirs.

I wasn't able to fit my HVAC controls that far down the dash extension, so they ended up on my dash. Just not enough clearance behind. But I know you were shipped a different controller unit. Nice. Keep up the great work, and thanks for sharing all the good info. Seeing your AC drain tubing in the PS FB, reminds me of yet another task I should have completed before sealing up that FB. Doable now, just not as accessible.

Thanks, Chris. For the A/C controller, I plan to remove the lower portion of the FFR panel that is under the dash extention. That will give me a couple more inches of depth to work with. Final placement of what I'll be mounting on the extention won't be known for a while yet. The FormaCars power window kit now comes with a dual switch that gets mounted in the console, so I want to try to factor that into my design as well.

Dave

[Papa]

Not much going on the past couple of days, but I called Chad at FormaCars to see about getting some red top stitching on my upper door panels that will be coming with the power window kit. Can't wait to see how they look with the rest of the interior details.

[Papa]

I've been playing around with ideas about how to run all the heater & A/C and defroster duct work in a clean way behind the dash. Here is a napkin sketch of what I'm thinking so far:



I'd like to combine the two evaporator ports into a 2.5" hard plenum (dust collection pipe) that feeds the four vents on the front of the dash as well as the two defroster vents. I'd like to install and actuator to open and close the defroster branch so that when running A/C, I get maximum air flow to the front vents. All the connections from the plenum to the vents would be made with the flexible duct material that came with the kit. I'm not an HVAC engineer, so please tell me if this design would work or why it wouldn't.

[Skuzzy]

A little math here. You want the area of the single hose to be that of the two ports you are combining.

Take the radius of the duct in the plenum and square it, then multiply it by PI (3.14). That will give the area of one duct. Multiple it by two to arrive at the total area.

Now, take the area you just found and divide it by PI (3.14) and find the square root of that value. Then multiply the result by two.

The last number you have will be the minimum diameter of the single duct you want to use off of the two ports. The larger the diameter, passed the minimum, will cause lower velocities in the single duct. Smaller than the minimum will increase the velocity of air flow at the expense of decreasing the total volume of air.

Happy to check the results. Just give me the port diameter on the plenum.

[Papa]

A little math here. You want the area of the single hose to be that of the two ports you are combining.

Take the radius of the duct in the plenum and square it, then multiply it by PI (3.14). That will give the area of one duct. Multiple it by two to arrive at the total area.

Now, take the area you just found and divide it by PI (3.14) and find the square root of that value. Then multiply the result by two.

The last number you have will be the minimum diameter of the single duct you want to use off of the two ports. The larger the diameter, passed the minimum, will cause lower velocities in the single duct. Smaller than the minimum will increase the velocity of air flow at the expense of decreasing the total volume of air.

Happy to check the results. Just give me the port diameter on the plenum.

Thank you for the reply! Doing the math based on the duct being 2.5" diameter, I come up with the minimum duct diameter of 3.53". So, if I understand what you are saying, that will reduce the CFM and increase the velocity of airflow, which I think is not desirable for maximum cooling. Does the calculation take into account having four 2.5" vents and two 2" defroster vents?

Thanks,
Dave

[Skuzzy]

At each junction/split for the outlets the velocity for each split will be reduced, unless you reduce the diameter of the ducts.

Use 2.5" diameter duct (should be the size of the original two plenum ports) for each of the two branches from the 3.53" duct. That one additional fork off the 2.5" duct should use a ducts with a diameter of 1.5" each.

All this assumes one outlet per branch.

Now, when you add a valve into the equation it skews things a bit. When you close off a branch the volume feeding that branch has to go somewhere. It results in the velocity increasing, as well as the turbulence and back pressure which causes a slight loss in the overall CFM at the remaining outlets. Even so, it still increases the flow, overall, just not 1:1.

[Skuzzy]

Just to add a bit more information. If you want to maximize the efficiency of the blower, then you would use one port off the plenum for the A/C vents, and the other port off the plenum for the defroster. Incorporate valves for both ports. When one port/valve is open the other is closed. This configuration will yield the best efficiency.

Do you happen to know the CFM of the blower?

[Papa]

From what I could find on Siroco's website, it looks like 355 m3/h or ~209 cfm.

[Papa]

Today was a day of little odds-and-ends tasks. First, I secured the evaporator drain to the frame in the footbox - task complete.



Next I worked on securing the rear harness. Nothing earth-shattering here either.





Next up was to cut the upper trans tunnel panel to open it up to gain access behind it as well as getting some added depth for the HVAC control panel that will be mounted in the dash extension.



Opening this up added 3" of additional depth behind the dash extension.



And finally, I started laying out the rest of the connections for the Wilwood EPB. I got the mail 40amp power and ground wires resized and will pull the switched power and indicator light wire through the new opening up to the fuse block and gauge controller.



I also installed a ground lug just to the right of the steering shaft mount. The lug will serve as a central ground location behind the dash. I just need to get a few large 8 awg ring connectors to run the wire between the lug and the chassis and to make the connections from the buss bar to the 125amp relay and the fuse block.

[Papa]

Just to add a bit more information. If you want to maximize the efficiency of the blower, then you would use one port off the plenum for the A/C vents, and the other port off the plenum for the defroster. Incorporate valves for both ports. When one port/valve is open the other is closed. This configuration will yield the best efficiency.

Do you happen to know the CFM of the blower?

Here is a different approach that uses the two evaporator ports as described in the manual, but adds two actuators.



The first port will feed the defroster or the center dash vents and the second port will feed the outer dash vents. I'm looking at using linear actuators that use a polarity reversing switch to extend or retract the actuator rod. By wiring two actuators working in opposite directions, the air will be redirected by using a single DPDT three-position (on-off-on) momentary rocker switch. Press the up arrow to direct air to the defroster and the down arrow to direct air to the dash vents. Stop mid cycle and get air to both.

Here is the actuator I'm looking at using:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...DF9XI63IC&th=1

And these Y fittings:



I just need the Y fitting to measure the needed throw to get the correct actuator.

[Skuzzy]

That is a good layout. I would step down the duct size to the dash outlets. I see you did for the defroster.

[Papa]

That is a good layout. I would step down the duct size to the dash outlets. I see you did for the defroster.

Thanks for all your feedback, I really appreciate it. My main goal is simply to be able to turn the defroster vents on and off but thinking about air volume is certainly an important variable. After looking at the Y fitting with the shut-off, it may actually work more as a diverter than a shut off, which, if true, would allow me to only use one to route air to the defrosters vs. center dash vents and simplify things a bit with just a single actuator.



I'll know for sure once I get the fitting in my hands.

[Papa]

More progress to share today. I started running the electrical connections on the upper trans tunnel, including the power & ground leads for the fuse block. The 125A relay provides power to the B side of the fuse block for ACC power, while the A side of the block has constant BATT power. I also ran the power and ground circuits for the Dakota Digital gauge controller and GPS module.



I connected the large ground lug I installed yesterday to a chassis ground. My though on doing this is to have an easily accessible ground that I can add or remove items from without disturbing the threaded screw connection to the chassis.



All that's left to wire my gauges are the sender and indicator connections, programming switch, and gauge dimmer to the controller and then to connect the two CAT-5 cables from the speedo and tach to the controller display ports. I love the modularity that the Dakota Digital products offer.

I'm also considering adding a larger buss bar near the starter location to manage the battery cable connections, one of which will feed up to the 100A buss bar on the upper left of the panel I've been working on.

I'm considering reversing the connections on the 125A relay pins (posts) 30 and 87 to make the wiring cleaner.

[Skuzzy]

Just a thought. I would consider connecting the electronics to a dedicated power and ground bus connected directly to the battery. Power, of course, can be switched. It just insures clean power and reduces the chance of damaging spikes. It is just an insurance policy.

[Papa]

As I continue to ponder my HVAC setup for the ducts and vents, I wanted to try to find a switch that would operate my actuator concept and actually look like an automotive switch vs. an industrial thing. I found a company called Rocker Switch Pros that makes custom switch actuators that would make this for me for about $12.00.



They laser etch the actuator, so there is no printing to come off, and they offer virtually every configuration of rocker switch you could want or need. I'm now looking at what switches I could order to complete my total switch package for the defroster/dash vent actuator, fog lights, power windows, etc. so that I have a clean consistent bank of switches.

Here are some of their standard actuators I'm considering:

[Skuzzy]

If I was going analog switches I would go that route.

[Papa]

The AC duct Y fitting with the door arrived today. It is simply an open or close function, not a diverter to one branch or the other.





The bad news is that if I try to use this the way I wanted to (switching between defrost and center dash vents, it won't work without adding more fittings and duct than will fit behind the dash. I can, however, use it to modulate the air flow to the defroster vents themselves by simply replacing the Y in the defroster branch with this one. The throw is almost exactly 1.2", which is the throw on the actuator I was looking at, so I'll order it and then start to play with how to mount it to do what I want to do. More to come later.

I also did a bit of reconfiguring for the 125 Amp relay connections to try and make the overall wiring cleaner.



I also connected the two CAT-5E cables to the Dakota Digital gauge controller that run to the gauges. Those are the only connections that go to the gauges from the controller. I also shortened the Bus Interface Module (BIM) cable, which was just three 22-gauge wires with 4-pin connectors. It was a bit fiddly working with the small wires and short run that I wanted to make from the 6' cable provided. I also connected the last two wires for the Wilwood EPB, which were the +12V ACC power and the brake LED indicator wire to the VHX controller. The indicator will appear in the speedometer gauge and the switch will be lit when the parking brake is enabled.

Last item to talk about today is that I installed the rear cockpit panel and the front trunk panel that everyone loves installing. I also installed the driver's floor pan.

[Nigel Allen]

Fabulous craftsmanship Dave.

Cheers,

Nige

[Papa]

Fabulous craftsmanship Dave.

Cheers,

Nige

Thanks, Nigel. I'm really focusing on trying to keep the wiring on this build as clean and organized as I can.

Dave