RickShank's Roadster Build - P/S Reservoir, strike 2

[rickshank]

Ok, piecing this together with Type 65 Coupe online manual, included RF Manual Rev Y (Jan 25 / apparently MK4), and pieces of Roadster Manual (turn signal).

1 - Aluminium pieces - it looks like the front console piece 17480 (Trans Tunnel Top Front) needs to pass 3 grommets through, and that pieces goes over 60161/60162 (Cockpit Trans Side, L/R). Go ahead and install those? I Won't install the trans tunnel until the wiring is closer to wrapped but I'll drill/cleco it.

2 - Wire groups through the Trans Tunnel . 1- Engine "power" - alt/starter solenoid 2 - sending units 3 - RF EFI bundle 4 - Rear Harness. I'm hoping I join the RF EFI bundle into the Engine Power one, as I suspect it shouldn't go with the sending units. Is 3 right? Any certain distance from the top edge of the tunnel I should aim for to be reasonably hidden?

3 - Front Harness - I think going through 60139 Footbox Inside Upper Wall, Left will be the cleanest and out of the way? I've got AN Bulkheads for hydraulics on the footbox front.

Pics below. Thanks!!!


Engine Power by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Panels? by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Fuse Box by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Front Harness Route by Rick Shank, on Flickr

[rickshank]

I see the AL pieces being installed after the drivetrain (pg 338 / https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...ter-manual.pdf ). But if the wires feed into the tunnel there, then that comes earlier. Any issues with installing the drivetrain if those 2 side panels are installed and the top cover is loose?

[rickshank]

Dash moving forward. I’ll let the glue dry until tomorrow (3M 90)

Wire harnesses are roughly laid out. I’ll probably drill the console front top tomorrow and then start connecting wires. Probably best to start with the dash wiring and work from there.

IMG_1674.jpg

[rickshank]

Today's progress - started gauge wiring. The wago-type bus uses the parts from the Ron Francis chassis harness. All of the power/light/ground get bonded and then that gets driven by a dimmer that controls the lighting. Also mapped out the wires in the Dash harness (that connects to the main harness) to see what I have left over. The harness spans at least two generations of these cars, including when the turn signals and hazard lights were a toggle switch, so some work reviewing this stuff is important. Also pulled out the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 stuff to see what overlap there is. Answer - very little. Tach, fuel pump, and fan.

I need to change the RF fuse panel to have the relays driven by the Edelbrock, but that doesn't seem too hard. For those following along at home and know anything about 12V wiring - I think I just need to cut terminals 86 (12V+) and 85 (ground) and connect those to the Edelbrock ,which switches the ground. 30 & 87 stay as designed.

And for the fuel pump relay, insert the Ford inertia switch between Edelbrock Fuel Pump Ground & Fuel Pump Relay terminal 85.

Sound right for the relay changes?

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[rickshank]

Ok, some collective help, please.

Dash wiring. I see in the FF MKV Roadster manual (current version, page 283) - cut Pink hazard, Cut Yellow and White for turn signal to prevent back feeding. Ok.

For reference - wiring diagram - https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...ness-rev-W.pdf / page 32


1) What about Gray-Turn Flasher FD ? It comes from the fuse panel.
2) For Turn Signal indicator into the GPS Speedo - Clean up the Lt Blue/Dk Green wires (since they won't be going to switches) and connect those from the LF and RF turn signal wires?
3) Remove LR and RR turn signal wires?
4) +5V reference for oil pressure - can I use the Lt Blue Oil Temp wire? I think the Gauge is creating the 5V reference from its 12V source, right?
5) I need 15amps or so for 2 Corbeau seat heaters and a 12V cigarette lighter port (for USB). What's the best way to get this? Rewire the choke? I 'll have wipers and A/C, so those circuits are out.

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[cc2Arider]

Hi Rick,

I'm doing something similar to your question 4) so that I can use the rest of the wiring harness as-intended...

Craig C

[rickshank]

Thanks. #1/2/3 are definitely getting the best of me. I'll look at the diagrams again tomorrow.

[rickster991]

This is from memory, but I documented it in my thread.
1. I followed the instructions and if you are using the turn signal assembly it plugs right into the harness. I cut the indicated wires.
2. I did not use them as the “HR only” harness handles it all.
3. I did whatever the manual said to do.
4. I ran the supplied wire directly from the sensor to the gauge. I did that with all the gauges. I did not use the wires in the harness.
5. I used choke as my signal for EFI. It is switched power. I believe I used radio for my seat heaters, but it is 10 amps. I used wiper wire for my USB, figured I won’t be using wipers much.

Hope this helps. More detail would be in my thread. Good luck…

[rickshank]

Thanks, Rick! I'll check out your thread again. I know to use the HR harness for turn signal, but for the indicators into the Speedo, that's what I'm looking at .
I'm going to give FF a ring before I start cutting the signal stuff out (I think I just splice into the main turn signals for indicator, shortening the mess of wires), and my fuel pump/fan relay plan should work.

[Pete&Scott]

Rick: I decided to go with a Tilton MC for my clutch in my MK5 based on forum suggestions for the 427 and TKX transmission. I like your banjo setup on both the inlet and outlet. I would appreciate part numbers, and the supplier where you purchased those. Thanks.

This was one of those weeks I just needed to get through.

Rear brakes - *finally* got the right hardware / spacer setup. Background - 11.6" rear brakes / mix of Saturn / Ford I think. There's a bracket from FF to bolt to the IRS hubs. You need to center the caliper over the rotor, which you do with spacers. Unless you run out of room on the bolt, then you change the bolt. This was a 3x problem. First, replacement bolt was hex, not 12 point. Wrong, cable interference. Then, get 12 point bolt from Mcmaster. Wrong, it's 14mm, not 12mm, interference. Bel-metric was able to the me the right bolt. I don't know how many days this was, but too many.

Then, the emergency brake cable comes almost directly downwards, and needs something to keep the axle from getting it wrapped up. I made a small bracket from some 3"x.125 AL,bolted to the lower control arm. Needed new bolt here so that the nylon engaged in the locknut. AN lines - used Fragola PTFE lined hose. -4 for reservoirs. Which is more of a pain to assemble than the upcoming -6 for fuel.

Brake plumbing - AN lines for reservoirs to the non-standard Tilton MCs. That was mostly fine. It's tight. Very tight. If I was doing it from scratch, I'd do it a bit differently and give myself more room. Double-flared lines - ditched the FF lines (green coated steel for NiCopp). I wanted correct length, no unions, and I didn't mine flaring the lines. Used the Eastwood $$$ kit, after the first few practice tries, I was good. Getting the 2 lines from the MCs to the brake booster as one piece was more than difficult for my first time doing hard lines. 1/8" TIG rod helps for mockups and you get 36" to work with. More experienced folks would be better at how much the bend eats up, keeping things clocked better, etc.

Fuel lines - -6AN feed/return. It's overkill on my 347, but there's not a lot of options between 5/16 hard line / 1/4" return from FF and this. If I ever want more power, the fuel lines will handle it. I chose to run hard lines through the tunnel. I'll have a driveshaft safety loop, but there isn't any other place to put lines other than the tunnel. Otherwise the lines will hit ground first. I used some fancy adapters from Breeze Automotive to go from the 3/8" NiCopp to -6AN male. I need some AN fittings to move forward, I bought just a few so I wouldn't have a ton of unused ones. I want to 3d print custom width spacers/clamps for the hard lines front and rear to keep them oriented like I have them.

I need to read up to see what's next. I think....engine/trans, so that means the Mid-Shift kit needs done.

Plumbing reservoir by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Pedal box plumbed by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Plumbing front by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Plumbing pass side by Rick Shank, on Flickr
Plumbing tunnel by Rick Shank, on Flickr

​​​​​​​

[rponfick]

Pete&Scott, on related question did you decide to use the Tilton 75 or 76? Rick mentions using "non-standard" Tiltons, so maybe he can comment on that also.
I'm working on a MK5 also, and some of the Tiltons fit better than others, mostly for hyd clutch for me as Wilwood is giving me issues.
Thanks, Ralph

[rickshank]

I used Tilton 76s - 3/4 and 13/16 to match the Wilwoods. Would I do that again? No. I'd go with the 75s. The banjo nut on top of the inward MC interferes with the chassis tubes. I literally tightened the banjo bolt, with copper spacers, so that the flats would let the MC get *almost* parallel to the others. Go with the 75s on the MK5.

If just doing the clutch, then no issue there. I believe I ordered from Pegasus Auto Racing along with a bunch of AN hardware. The AN hardware will make the MC price seem like peanuts.

[rickshank]

Question for folks on wiring/grommets. The ProFlo4 ( similar to Sniper) uses metripack 150/ that are 20 pin, so just over 2” wide at widest. I assume this should be mounted inside the dash/firewall area, which means a pretty big hole in the upper trans tunnel where I’ve run the other harnesses with 1.5 holes. I’d need to find a grommet that big or use a 3” (slightly bigger OD) split grommet.

Another option is depinning. I know how to do it, I have the tool, but that’s 40 pins to not break on way out and back in. 9 or so more if I do the o2 sensor as well. That gets the holes to a few 1” holes.

Unless I’m missing something?

Any pics of an inside Sniper or ProFlo4 mount? I was thinking of Riv Nuts to the firewall on the interior side.

[rickshank]

Doing some more research on this, the Sniper is more self contained and sits near the intake; where the PF4 sits remotely.

I’ll measure a bit more on the trans tunnel cover and see if I can get away with the hole and big split grommet. Anyone have a handy pic of what’s visible on that panel from normal view?

[gbranham]

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[rickshank]

Sweet! Thank you! I wasn’t planning on a firewall forward mod to mine, but mounting there makes sense to me. I just need to insulate it first.

I may still go down through the tunnel for routing. After second thought ( or 14th thought), the split grommet would get covered by carpet anyways.

[gbranham]

I'm using the kit firewall, not the firewall forward setup. I stuck a piece of foam pipe insulation in the oval firewall hole. It is hidden when the body is on the chassis.

[rickshank]

And that’s a standard hole in the MK4? MK5 is a straight solid piece.

[gbranham]

Yep, standard hole in the MkIV firewall.

Greg

[Pete&Scott]

I bought the 76 series based on Jeff Kliener's post in Edwardb build thread.

Pete&Scott, on related question did you decide to use the Tilton 75 or 76? Rick mentions using "non-standard" Tiltons, so maybe he can comment on that also.
I'm working on a MK5 also, and some of the Tiltons fit better than others, mostly for hyd clutch for me as Wilwood is giving me issues.
Thanks, Ralph

[rickshank]

Without lowering the pedal assembly the distance of a banjo bolt head, the clearance issue I mention exists on the 76 series in a MKV. It would be a bit tricky to lower it the way it mounts both above/below tabs, but it can be done.

[Pete&Scott]

I did go with just the clutch for now. Those banjo fittings and bolts are pricey.

I used Tilton 76s - 3/4 and 13/16 to match the Wilwoods. Would I do that again? No. I'd go with the 75s. The banjo nut on top of the inward MC interferes with the chassis tubes. I literally tightened the banjo bolt, with copper spacers, so that the flats would let the MC get *almost* parallel to the others. Go with the 75s on the MK5.

If just doing the clutch, then no issue there. I believe I ordered from Pegasus Auto Racing along with a bunch of AN hardware. The AN hardware will make the MC price seem like peanuts.

[rickshank]

There's some order to this disorder. I'm crossing the hump on the wiring and it's clicking in my head now. I think

Rear harness finished up and installed for good, I hope. Front harness cleaned up and outside of mounting, it's there. Found a path forward on the big connectors for the Edelbrock Pro Flo4. Rather than de-pin 2 20pin Metripack and a 9 pin Metripack, I'm using a split grommet that allows a bigger hole. I do need to trim the grommet for the wire opening. I think I'm going to use a dremel (and prepare for the mess).

Next up - firewall work. I had the Edelbrock relay+fuse where it fit, but I think I need that area of the firewall/dash for an A/C air hose. so I cut and labeled each of those 7 wires and crimped extensions on. I'll crimp back in place after I mount the relay and fuse. Then I need to connect the EFI stuff up - it ties to the chassis harness for fan and power only at this point. And I need to tie the inertia switch into the Edelbrock fuel pump relay. I thought it would just go in line for the pump so I mounted it out back, but the wires are like 18-20 gauge and not appropriate for a fuel pump wire.

I'm going to be calling people sooner rather than later for motor install day.
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[Highplainsdakota]

Great Progress,

I have some thoughts since I'm just a bit ahead of you with the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4. I mounted my ECU on the top of the passenger foot box with the main power relay and fuse. I ended up purchasing the edelbrock fuel relay add on with fuse but you could probably build it yourself. I put my inertia switch behind the dash, but I used the signal wire for the fuel relay instead of the actual power wire to the fuel pump. That takes care of your wire size issue but the relay would go behind the dash or somewhere near that.

I put a toggle switch behind my dash where I could reach that opened the circuit to the intertia switch and fuel relay trigger so I could crank the engine without pumping the gas. I believe this will come in handy later.

You need to connect the Orange EFI wire to the ECU power, and the fan trigger also. The Tach wire may also be used depending on your tach. Good luck!

[rickshank]

I have the Edelbrock FP relay as part of my kit. I'm using the RF Fan relay triggered by the Edelbrock. You can see my unit mounted on the firewall. The relay will go to the right of that, I have it sitting on the cockpit floor with longer wire leads crimped on. Inertia switch - exactly what I'm planning. Factory cars have inertia switches (maybe this is a Foxbody mustang switch), they shouldn't trip except for bad stuff happening (tm).

Interesting thought on switch. I think what you'd want is to be able to disconnect the coil/tach to the ECU. That will keep the injectors from firing, as you may not need to pump if you already have a pressurized fuel system.

I didn't go for the passenger footwell as I still have HVAC to install, and I believe it goes there.

Much appreciated on your setup - seems the ProFlo4 is certainly not as commonplace as the Sniper. Thanks!

[gbranham]

Looking good! You'll love that ProFlo4.

Greg

[rickshank]

Anyone ever had to remove a terminal from the RF fuse panel to fix it? I see a dangling Horn wire (brown) and I think it came out of the terminal.


First, not sure how to remove the terminal, then if I can recrimp it or where to source another one.


----

Edit - pretty straightforward. Drop down fuel panel, remove the white clip that retains the wires against the relay socket. Then use a small blade screwdriver in the "open slot" on the relay side to release the tab. I was able to open the crimp just a tiny fit, and insert the wire in, flattened not twisted. Crimped again, and added a little solder for good measure.

[rickshank]

Forward progress. These are bigger steps than they look, I think

-- All of the wires going down "out" of the car are in place. I do need to pull the fuel pump wires back from the right-most harness and make them connect inside the car over to the rear harness, but it's a clear path. Wrapped those harnesses in Tesa high-temp tape.

-- Mounted fuel pump relay / fuse / inertia switch to the firewall.

-- I noticed a wire had come off the horn relay base on the fuse panel. Had to figure out how to de-pin that after removing the fuse panel, or at least dropping it down. Re-crimped and added some solder.

Next up - fix fuel pump wiring/add a connector there. Add a cable retainer (zip tie with screw mount to a nut-seat on firewall) for the ECU wiring, as it's a hefty bundle. Sort out the power from the car to what circuit - ECU , ECU crank (I think), heated seats, wiper, heater, USB/12v.

Are there 12v USB ports that you'd put in a car these days that aren't random Amazon garbage? If not, I'll just do a cigarette lighter port and use a USB adapter that I can swap.

Anything else I might want power for?

[Pete&Scott]

Rick: Starting work on my dash. I notice you have red, green, and blue indicator lights. My kit just came with one green light. Wondering what the green light is for, and if I should have received the red and blue ones.

Thanks.

Pete

Dash moving forward. I’ll let the glue dry until tomorrow (3M 90)

Wire harnesses are roughly laid out. I’ll probably drill the console front top tomorrow and then start connecting wires. Probably best to start with the dash wiring and work from there.

IMG_1674.jpg

[rickshank]

They were in a separate package/box I think. Regardless, you need 0 of them with the Vintage gauges - indicators are built into the speedo. I installed them for future use. Right now, I'm just putting a connector out back for the 3 of them for future me.

[Pete&Scott]

Rick: I used this USB port on my motorcycle. It has survived wind, rain, and a lot of vibration over the past 5 years. I may use it in my build

https://www.amazon.com/MOTOPOWER-MP0...st_sto_dp&th=1

But I like the looks of this one for a car so will probably give it a try.

https://www.amazon.com/Cigarette-Rep...st_sto_dp&th=1

Pete

Forward progress. These are bigger steps than they look, I think

-- All of the wires going down "out" of the car are in place. I do need to pull the fuel pump wires back from the right-most harness and make them connect inside the car over to the rear harness, but it's a clear path. Wrapped those harnesses in Tesa high-temp tape.

-- Mounted fuel pump relay / fuse / inertia switch to the firewall.

-- I noticed a wire had come off the horn relay base on the fuse panel. Had to figure out how to de-pin that after removing the fuse panel, or at least dropping it down. Re-crimped and added some solder.

Next up - fix fuel pump wiring/add a connector there. Add a cable retainer (zip tie with screw mount to a nut-seat on firewall) for the ECU wiring, as it's a hefty bundle. Sort out the power from the car to what circuit - ECU , ECU crank (I think), heated seats, wiper, heater, USB/12v.

Are there 12v USB ports that you'd put in a car these days that aren't random Amazon garbage? If not, I'll just do a cigarette lighter port and use a USB adapter that I can swap.

Anything else I might want power for?

[PMD24]

Hey Rick, can you share some details (and photos?) on what you learned on getting that horn connector out of the fuse panel? I've wondered about that as I'm contemplating some changes at the fuse panel. I've also noticed on mine, that there's an unused connection point on the ACC bus of the panel. I was wondering how one goes about crimping a wire into that. Any insight on that?

Thanks,

Pat

[rickshank]

It's snowing a bit here (10-16" today), so not sure how much shop time I'll get.

The relay terminals have a white clip on the side of the fuel panel that retains them, then you use a small screwdriver to release the tab from the relay side.

For the ACC position, is there a terminal in there? If so, it needs released, then you can add a wire to it. If it's like the relay terminal, it's pretty small - a normal 6" pair of needle nose pliers is too big. Bend the release tab back out if after crimping the wire and re-installing.

[2nd2none]

Rick: Starting work on my dash. I notice you have red, green, and blue indicator lights. My kit just came with one green light. Wondering what the green light is for, and if I should have received the red and blue ones.

Thanks.

Pete

To go with what Rick mentioned, I received 2 green indicator lights (box 4 with Mk5 dash electrical parts and box 27 with the elec sys comp parts). Received 1 each of the blue and red indicator lights that were also in box 4 with the Mk5 dash electrical parts. No current plans to use any of them since I also have the Speedhut vintage gauges.

[Pete&Scott]

Thanks. I found the other lights. I went with the Autometer Ultra Lite 7 Gauge set, not sure if those gauges include indicator lights, so I will install at least the 3 lights, not sure what the extra green one is for.

To go with what Rick mentioned, I received 2 green indicator lights (box 4 with Mk5 dash electrical parts and box 27 with the elec sys comp parts). Received 1 each of the blue and red indicator lights that were also in box 4 with the Mk5 dash electrical parts. No current plans to use any of them since I also have the Speedhut vintage gauges.

[rickshank]

Thanks. I found the other lights. I went with the Autometer Ultra Lite 7 Gauge set, not sure if those gauges include indicator lights, so I will install at least the 3 lights, not sure what the extra green one is for.

I think the various lights are just a legacy item from the past. Turn signals / high beams / etc.

On Autometer's website, I don't see any Ultra-lite speedos that incorporate turn signal indicators. Your high beam switch should have a light integrated, but you could use the 3rd indicator for that if you want a non-LED look/feel (Ultra-lites are probably non-LED, as are these indicators).

[rickshank]

Ok, documenting this for me and future MKV builders.

Available power for your EFI / USB / seat heaters / etc:

Ignition on power:
EFI/Coil - 15A, Orange, available in firewall area
Choke - 10A, Tan, available in sending unit harness
Accessory on power:
Wiper - 10A, Purple, available in Radio/Heater/Wiper bundle from main harness
Heater - 20A, Brown, available in Radio/Heater/Wiper bundle from main harness
Gauge feed - 10A (shared with radio) - Brown, available in Dash Harness
Radio Power - 10A (shared with gauge feed) - Brown, available in Radio/Heater/Wiper bundle from main harness
Always on power:
Radio memory - 15A (shared with headlight & courtesy light) - Red, available in Radio/Heater/Wiper bundle from main harness
Courtesy light - 15A (shared with headlight & radio mem) - Red, separate bundle in firewall. Note - ground is connected to Headlight switch)

Here's what I need on mine so far:
Wiper - use standard circuit
Heater/AC - use standard circuit
Seat heaters (Corbeau, recommended 6A/seat) - EFI/Coil (sharing trigger wire for EFI below)
USB power - Choke. 10A/120W is plenty for USB.


Then for Edelbrock ProFlo -
Tach output - Brown/White - connect to purple Coil/Tach wire on Dash Harness
Fan #1 output (ground trigger) Yellow - Dk Green on Fuse Panel for FanThermoSW
12V switched power - Pink Black - (only for trigger relay) - EFI/Coil




For USB power, I'm going to use this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B001U4ZZPK , just need to figure out where I should mount it. Behind the seat? Center console? I really don't want it on the dash. Then the usb adapter plugs into that and I'm a bit more future-proofed / less tied to technology leaving it behind or a USB port going bad / weather. These are rated pretty good for boats.

Turns out it's good I wrote this out and traced out the wire diagrams. I thought the relay on the Edelbrock was an optional FP relay. It's a main relay, and I have the FP wired in to a 10A max circuit where the thing will draw more like 15. I need to get connect back into the RF Fuse Panel for that relay.

[rickshank]

Drivetrain is in! Big thanks to my buddy and my dad stopping out to get it done.

It was mostly ready to go when they came out, but three people is the right number. You could do it with less if you've done it before, you'll just increase the amount of time. One on the engine lift, one up front for the engine mounts/damage control and someone laying on my dirty floor dealing with the transmission tail.

The drivetrain itself was just under an hour. Then we installed the headers loosely as I'm waiting for upgraded Stage8 locking fasteners that are in a UPS delivery delay.

Couple issues - the transmission mount just touches the casting of the transmission case. It's probably fine, but there isn't any adjustment in the location to make this any better. I will very likely pull that back out tonight/tomorrow, clearance it slightly, and reinstall.

Second issue - power steering reservoir inlet wants to occupy the same space as the steering shaft. 'm guessing this setup works fine in a MK4 car but we need to do something different for a MKV. I'll call Forte tomorrow.

Huge step and it's really looking like a car now. I need to grab a seat and steering wheel to make some vroom vroom noises.

302->347ci stroker, Tremec TKX 5 speed with forward shift conversion.

Quick/dirty 2 minute timelapse - https://youtu.be/nLKIFOkxeec

Drivetrain installed by Rick Shank, on Flickr

Engine in by Rick Shank, on Flickr

Power steering reservoir clearance by Rick Shank, on Flickr

​​​​​​​Transmission mount clearance by Rick Shank, on Flickr

[rponfick]

Rick, same issue as you on the tranny mount. My tranny would not go down all the way due to tranny mount impacting the rear of the tranny aluminum. Took the mount out a few times and trimmed impacted area, loosened motor mounts to try to move forward a bit, and finally got it to fit in. I called FFR and they said it should fit and had no inquiries. Looks like they need to trim their mount some to rectify this issue.
Ralph

[rickshank]

Ralph, same combo - 302/347 + TKX? I'll let them know next time I call in. I just clearanced the mounting plate a bit, sandblasted it, and waiting for it to come out of the powder coat oven.