Project Deimos: An LS '65 Coupe Build: Engine no longer overheating!

[Lugnut Mark]

Hopefully all is well ….. just know that your dream project car build will always be there …. My last project car build took me 7yrs to complete …. It’s not a race to finish enjoy the build as well as your family … Godspeed!

[JimStone]

As it stands (or hangs) tonight:





Details to come

[Lugnut Mark]

Happy to see the car back out of storage …. I have the same wheels for mine only in bronze… did you use snowman’s specs?

[JimStone]

Happy to see the car back out of storage …. I have the same wheels for mine only in bronze… did you use snowman’s specs?

Hey Mark,

Yes, I'm very happy to have the car back home in the garage. It was in storage for a little over a month (felt so much longer).


Here it is being lifted by my Vevor electric hoist. My little utility trailer actually transported it just fine the few miles to storage.











And yep, I stole Snowman's wheel specs. I grateful to him for taking the risk and forging the way. That's a lot of money on custom wheels you can't return.

[burchfieldb]

Glad to see that you are back at it! Not working on the car or some part of it for a month would tear me up.

[Skuzzy]

Glad to see that you are back at it! Not working on the car or some part of it for a month would tear me up.

I don't think he is working on it. That garage is just too darn clean and organized to get anything done in it.

What I wouldn't give to have that much space to work in.

[burchfieldb]

I agree. I have parts stacked and stashed everywhere to get a little bit of space to work. He must be following hospital protocol for cleanliness. ��

[JimStone]

I don't think he is working on it. That garage is just too darn clean and organized to get anything done in it.

What I wouldn't give to have that much space to work in.

The garages in this house were a big reason I bought it. The guy who built it restored vintage wood powerboats. He also flew F14s off aircraft carriers, so was a pretty cool guy. Unfortunately he passed away, but I like to think he'd be happy with what I've done with the place.

I agree. I have parts stacked and stashed everywhere to get a little bit of space to work. He must be following hospital protocol for cleanliness. ��

Does no one else scrub in before entering the operating room, I mean garage?

[burchfieldb]

Depends on which country you are in. I have observed many surgeries in different countries, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, and out of all of them, except the US, I only felt comfortable in Germany. Mine is more the lack of spacee problem.

[Lugnut Mark]

Yes sir ….. sure am thankful for snowman helping us out with the wheel specs IMG_2134.jpg

[JimStone]

Yes sir ….. sure am thankful for snowman helping us out with the wheel specs IMG_2134.jpg

I like the bronze a lot. Thought about going with something other than black, but I still am undecided on the color the car will be. Black goes with everything and all my trim pieces are/will be black

[JimStone]

deleted - double post

[JimStone]

I promised some build details, and I'm stuck with nothing to do for 10 hrs on a flight back from Italy, so seems a good time for an update.

First a few pics from the trip. 10 year Anniversary. Road trip from northern Italy down to the Almalfi Coast. Was lovely

















Now, to the build. I had the car in storage for more than a month, but I did work on getting the drivetrain ready.


Totally unnecessary, but I made several mostly cosmetic changes. Some will not agree with all my choices, but that's okay

Used Rust-Oleum Engine Enamel primer, black, then clear. And some gold engine paint for some accents






The too deep F-body Camero oil pan was replaced with a more shallow C6 Corvette pan that I powder coated gold. Also needed a new oil pump pickup.

[JimStone]

CVF Racing serpentine accessory drive was installed, but then I had to take back off the alternator and AC compressor to access the engine lift bolt sites I wanted.



I am using two-piece valve covers that hide the LS ignition coils. I powder coated the covers black. Tried installing them, but found out the coils Blueprint uses for their "LS3 based" crate engine are not LS3 coils at all. They're older style cube shaped coils that were too tall. So I had to buy another set of the flat coils that fit inside the covers. Used FiTech coils



You can also see above that the LS intake manifold is now a gloss black instead of the flat black that is standard. I actually powder coated the intake. It's a nylon composite material, so you can't use the standard electrostatic process. I "hot flocked" it. Heated the intake to 400 degrees (this composite takes the heat no problem) then immediately shoot powder evenly across the piece. The powder melts ("flows") immediately. Then you bake it as normal.




Indexed the bellhousing, which for an LS with T56 requires a indexing plate (or to take the front plate of the transmission off to use for indexing, which I didn't want to do)

Came in at 0.0025" runout, well within Tremec's recommended 0.005", so no offset dowels needed.




Installed the Tilton hydraulic release bearing




Using a McCleod RST dual disc clutch and a McLeod steel flywheel





I was ready to mate the trans and engine, but I couldn't get it to go the last inch. I was quite confused.



I had the bellhousing and clutch on and off 3 or 4 times before I finally figured out the problem was the pilot bearing. It didn't come with the engine, so i used the "LS3" bearing I assumed would work. But I figured out that bearing actually installs too shallow so the transmission input shaft was bottoming out.

I need the older style pilot bearing that is narrower and installs deeper into the bore of the crankshaft. That extra inch was what was needed.




I did a few other modifications . I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

- Converted the heater hose connections to 12AN (I'm trying to use AN hoses as much as I can instead of rubber)

- Converted PCV system hose connectors to 6AN

- Drilled and tapped a place in the intake manifold for a MAT sensor (not used on OEM LS engines, but used by Holley Terminator X instead of a MAF sensor)

- Racetronix LS fuel rails

- 20AN thermostat housing/water necks (I'm running big AN hoses for radiator hoses using AutoPlumb parts)

- Changed the steam vent tubing to 3 AN, using Earl's steam vent adapters

[JimStone]

We installed the LS motor mount adapters that FFR included in my kit. Then used the hoist to install the drivetrain








It went in easily

FFR sent a different transmission mount plate that is meant to work with my configuration. It didn't fit, but at least was a good starting point. I was able to modify it and get it to work







Tried finishing up by installing the driveshaft, but wasn't going to happen:



Now over a year into the build, I never realized I got a 12.75" driveshaft instead of the needed 9.75" (that was correct on my order sheet and inventory). I just never measured it.

Of course, like has been the case with everything, FFR made it right and I'll have the correct driveshaft on my porch by the time I'm home tonight

[Lugnut Mark]

That looks like a trip of a lifetime happy belated anniversary….. Now about the car I’m really digging the black and gold theme and love CVF serpentine kits they are a little pricy but man do they look nice when installed …. Just out of curiosity what exterior color are you thinking about painting it?

[JimStone]

Thanks Mark,

Italy is wonderful. I think we like Tuscany the best, but Rome is always fun. Amalfi is beautiful, but man is it overrun with tourists. We had a car, so driving the windy roads was a highlight for me

CVF's serpentines are really nice. Compared to other nicer systems, it's actually on the lower end price wise. But everything is expensive

I've been thinking of painting the car Ford Magnetic Metallic Gray. I've taken inspiration from this Roadster build:





I'm not sure his name on the Forum, but he's sandmans_ford_garage on Instagram



But then again, I'm not committed to any color yet

[PNWTim]

We installed the LS motor mount adapters that FFR included in my kit. Then used the hoist to install the drivetrain








It went in easily

FFR sent a different transmission mount plate that is meant to work with my configuration. It didn't fit, but at least was a good starting point. I was able to modify it and get it to work







Tried finishing up by installing the driveshaft, but wasn't going to happen:



Now over a year into the build, I never realized I got a 12.75" driveshaft instead of the needed 9.75" (that was correct on my order sheet and inventory). I just never measured it.

Of course, like has been the case with everything, FFR made it right and I'll have the correct driveshaft on my porch by the time I'm home tonight

I think a little grease and a solid nudge she'll pop right into place....not. I have actually opened the box and taken out the drive shaft but never bothered to measure it. Maybe it's time to do so.

[JimStone]

FFR did have the correct driveshaft on my door when I returned from Italy

I got it installed and checked the drivetrain angles. I think I have a problem.

The diff/pinion angle is pointing downward (towards the floor) 0.9 degrees. This really screws everything up. After reading through every pinion angle thread I could find, it seems this downward angle is not the norm.


Here are the angles with and without shimming the transmission mount the max I can do without having to cut the crossbar in the trans tunnel








As you can see, the crankshaft/trans output are not parallel to the pinion/diff.

And when I shim the trans, those angles are a little better but then the driveshaft angle is ridiculous

So what to do?


The diff/IRS is stuck in that position. Burchfield made some different offset bushings for the IRS to change the angle. That was really impressive, but I'm not nearly as capable, nor do I want to take the pumpkin out [**panicky flashbacks of installing it**]

If I somehow drop the engine down (?? different motor mounts), then the oil pan will sit below the frame rails


Any ideas folks? Or should I just leave it and not worry?

[PNWTim]

Jim - I think this has been covered in the forum many times but the differential is fixed so there is no movement in relation to the engine crankshaft/transmission centerline. It is what it is. Perhaps others will ring in but 3 or 4 degrees on a 15" drive shaft is what u-joints are for.

[Jeff Kleiner]

FORGET THE DRIVESHAFT ANGLE. Sorry, didn't mean to yell but I've delivered this same lecture about 100 times over the years For pinion angle we want to see the nose of the pinion pointing down ~2 degrees relative to the transmission output shaft. What you have with no shims is what you want...it results in 2.05 degrees. Can't ask for better than that!

Jeff

[JimStone]

Thank you guys for the sanity check! I feel much relieved now.

I was really not looking forward to cutting crossbars

No problem Jeff, sometimes it takes a bit of yelling to get through a noob's thick skull

[lewma]

nose of the pinion pointing down ~2 degrees relative to the transmission output shaft

What about side to side ? ( top down view i mean )

[gbranham]

And to think, I didn't measure any of this. I just eyeballed the u-joints to make sure they weren't at extreme angles and never gave it a second thought. Everything is juuuuust fine. People...this is why your driveshaft has u-joints. The level of precision folks try to employ here baffles me.

Greg

[lewma]

And to think, I didn't measure any of this. I just eyeballed the u-joints to make sure they weren't at extreme angles and never gave it a second thought. Everything is juuuuust fine. People...this is why your driveshaft has u-joints. The level of precision folks try to employ here baffles me.

Greg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4&t=17s

[Jeff Kleiner]

And to think, I didn't measure any of this. I just eyeballed the u-joints to make sure they weren't at extreme angles and never gave it a second thought. Everything is juuuuust fine. People...this is why your driveshaft has u-joints. The level of precision folks try to employ here baffles me.

Greg

True, but...I have had cars come in with driveline vibration and found that the pinion angle was out of whack with the front of the pinion pointing up rather than down. After setting it properly the vibration was cured. If you ever see a 3 link roadster with the back wheels sitting towards the rear of the wheel opening I guarantee that the pinion angle is set wrong with the front of the pinion up (and most likely the top off the banana bracket is contacting the panhard bar brace). I find it quite easy to understand and have tried to explain it here many times in simple terms but for some reason it often gets treated like some black magic voodoo

Jeff

[gbranham]

Yep, I understand there's a little more care involved in a 3-link setup where the diff can actually be adjusted, but in this case, and most of the obsession I see here on the forum, we're talking about IRS. When I see folks agonizing over a half degree, or even a few degrees in an IRS setup, I just sigh. I think a lot of folks who do this don't really understand how a driveshaft and it's u-joints work, and try to strictly and painstakingly follow the build manual's guidance. Or maybe I just don't obsess over the things that don't really matter much!

Greg

[JimStone]

To be fair, I did not know how a u-joint works until recently.

And being my first build I'd rather ask the question and look dumb then have a serious problem later that could have been prevented

[Lugnut Mark]

Agreed Jim ……better to ask rather than have a problem later …. By the way did you set the air gap on your tilton throwout bearing … just a reminder …. I’m in the process of checking crank to tranny centerline and setting up the clutch IMG_2224.jpgIMG_2223.jpgIMG_2207.jpg

[JimStone]

Agreed Jim ……better to ask rather than have a problem later …. By the way did you set the air gap on your tilton throwout bearing … just a reminder …. I’m in the process of checking crank to tranny centerline and setting up the clutch IMG_2224.jpgIMG_2223.jpgIMG_2207.jpg

Thanks Mark

Oh yes, the bearing face to clutch fingers measurements. I did them a half dozen times to be sure. 0.125 inches. Or definitely within the recommended +/- 0.025 inch tolerance


Btw, do you have a build going? I don't see a build thread, but you clearly have something cooking

[Lugnut Mark]

Hey Jim …. I haven’t started my build thread as of yet …. I took advantage of FF forth of July anniversary sale and received 3 thousand off of my order ! My completion date was 9/20/25 but all the Stewart transport trucks are headed out west so Todd said he was planning on picking up my car around October 7 and I should have it shortly thereafter. I’m doing a gen4x Coyote with a T-56 trans IRS build …… however I’m a drag racer at heart so I’m still on the fence about putting turbos on the coupe. We’ll see after I have the car in my possession it really depends on how much room I have to fabricate everything. BTW i am currently employed by the hot rod shop of Nassau county here in Hilliard Florida . So building cars is what I do for a living and particularly like doing all the body and paint work …. Metal fab and bodywork is what I have been doing my whole life so I’m looking forward to doing a departure from your standard build when it comes to the Shelby coupe …. I’m thinking some wild colors and candy stripes …. Right now all I can do is play the waiting game but just trying to get a jump start on what I can do while I wait !

[Lugnut Mark]

Here’s a picture of the race car that I sold to fund my coupe build IMG_0278.jpgIMG_0305.jpg

[Lugnut Mark]

It was a 427 twin turbo Ls …. It ran on just methanol no water in the motor and had a big tire on it … she was fast… it made about 2000hp

[JimStone]

Wow Mark, that racecar is a monster! Crazy what kind of horsepower an LS can make. Although I don't think you used many original LS parts in your engine, haha

Congrats on your FFR order. Exciting times!

I'd recommend going ahead and starting your build thread. I look forward to following along. I'd love to see a turbo Coyote, but whatever you go with by the looks of your other builds it will be fantastic

[JimStone]

An apparently well known (except to me) flaw in the T-56 was recently brought to my attention. With the shifter in the "forward" orientation (where it needs to be in the Coupe), the gear directly underneath flings fluid right up at the shifter's rubber seal, eventually causing it to tear. Then fluid gets up into the shifter boot.




Seeing as I needed to take the engine/trans back out to get some things finished in the engine bay prior to final install, it was a good time to address this.

So what's the fix?

There are a few aftermarket shifters that eliminate the rubber seal and instead use a press fit ball-in-socket seal. Bowler's "Nightstick" shift was one I looked at. But at nearly $500, I wasn't too keen on prophylactically replacing the entire shifter.

Lewma (Mark) is dealing with a leaking T56 shifter and informed me of a product from Tick Performance that shrouds the offending gear, protecting the shifter seal from the flinging fluid (at least in theory). At $50, seemed more reasonable.









Hopefully it works!





While the trans was out, decided to paint it to match the engine. No good reason why, but I like it

[460.465USMC]

To be fair, I did not know how a u-joint works until recently.

And being my first build I'd rather ask the question and look dumb then have a serious problem later that could have been prevented

I hear you, Jim. Even though I have one build under my belt, I'm still wet behind the ears, constantly learning. My small mind only absorbs so fast. I'm learning there are aspects of the build where tight tolerances really matter, and perhaps others aren't as critical. Experience will teach us to distinguish between the two. Until then, I appreciate seasoned and pro-builders on the forum here, even if they have to yell at me every now and then. Keep up the good work, Jim, and keep asking those greenhorn questions.

[460.465USMC]

With the shifter in the "forward" orientation (where it needs to be in the Coupe), the gear directly underneath flings fluid right up at the shifter's rubber seal, eventually causing it to tear. Then fluid gets up into the shifter boot.

Seeing as I needed to take the engine/trans back out to get some things finished in the engine bay prior to final install, it was a good time to address this.

So what's the fix?

There are a few aftermarket shifters that eliminate the rubber seal and instead use a press fit ball-in-socket seal. Bowler's "Nightstick" shift was one I looked at. But at nearly $500, I wasn't too keen on prophylactically replacing the entire shifter.

Lewma (Mark) is dealing with a leaking T56 shifter and informed me of a product from Tick Performance that shrouds the offending gear, protecting the shifter seal from the flinging fluid (at least in theory). At $50, seemed more reasonable.



Hopefully it works!

X2 on the Tick Performance splash guard. If I don't, it will leak for sure. Thanks to you and LEWMA for raising visibility to this issue. Easier to do now than after it's installed.

[lewma]

Jim, easy installation with that splash guard ? Anything to watch out for ? I'm planning on doing mine this weekend.

mark

[JimStone]

I hear you, Jim. Even though I have one build under my belt, I'm still wet behind the ears, constantly learning. My small mind only absorbs so fast. I'm learning there are aspects of the build where tight tolerances really matter, and perhaps others aren't as critical. Experience will teach us to distinguish between the two. Until then, I appreciate seasoned and pro-builders on the forum here, even if they have to yell at me every now and then. Keep up the good work, Jim, and keep asking those greenhorn questions.

Thanks Chris. Even though I spend 3 hours researching for every hour of actual hands-on building, I still make rookie mistakes.

Just last night I realized that I was supposed to put thread sealer on the flywheel bolts. It will leak oil without them. So, now I have to take the trans/clutch/flywheel back off. Sheesh.

You don't know what you don't know

X2 on the Tick Performance splash guard. If I don't, it will leak for sure. Thanks to you and LEWMA for raising visibility to this issue. Easier to do now than after it's installed.

I hope it does the job. I'm glad I found out about it before my drivetrain was final mounted

Jim, easy installation with that splash guard ? Anything to watch out for ? I'm planning on doing mine this weekend.

mark

It was very simple. As you can see in my pics above, my minions did the work, haha

No instructions came with my shroud kit, but there is an installation video on Tick's website.

Hardest part is trying to fit a wrench around the nuts in the tight space. I actually had to grind down the sides of a 15mm wrench to fit in there

[lewma]

Hardest part is trying to fit a wrench around the nuts in the tight space. I actually had to grind down the sides of a 15mm wrench to fit in there

I've got to try and do that through the top of the trans tunnel. I'm not removing the transmission.