FINAL ORDER/OPTIONS for Mk5 with COYOTE Gen 3 or 4X

[Ejzajac]

Just finalizing order/options with FF and have a few remaining questions.

1. If purchasing the Wilwood 12.88 option from FF, are there ADDITIONAL included parts/brackets/hardware as opposed to other Wilwood vendors/Forte?
2. Coyote Installation Kit (16863) It is not clear after talking with FF what exactly is included in this kit? Motor mount spacers, sensors, neutral safety switch? There appears to be some duplication with the Ford Crate Engine Control Pack including the coyote accelerator pedal. Do most Coyote builders get this FF installation kit?
3. Does the FF (16668) 2018 Mustang IRS 3.55 Center Section package include anything ADDITIONAL compared to other vendors/Forte?

Thanks for your wisdom and helping me spent a bit more $$.

Ed

[Blitzboy54]

If you source your own coyote you definitely need the installation kit. It comes with the pedal mount, computer mount and engine mount spacers. But it also comes with a bunch of parts that come with he crate setup. I agree there seems to be a gap. There is no mention of the first three items I listed but it has everything else. Either the crate does in fact come with those items or if it doesn’t you almost need an install “light” kit.

For the record I just put a coyote and tkx in my roadster. If I was to do it again I would without hesitation purchase the FFR crate setup. Once you factor in all the items they pre install it’s almost a wash. I “saved” maybe 2k but had to have it tuned. This comes pre mapped.

[edwardb]

1. Sure, there are other sources for Wilwood brakes. The setup FF sells (I've installed it several times) comes with everything needed and is a direct bolt-on. Everything fits perfectly and the instructions are excellent. The only thing it doesn't include is safety wire if you choose to install on the bolts holding the rotors to the hats. The Wilwood instructions say it's not needed except for competition (or words to that effect) but most including me install it. Others will say their setup is better for whatever reason(s). I've been very happy with what FF supplies.

2. There isn't any duplication between the Coyote installation kit that FF supplies and what's included in the Ford Performance control pack. I've purchased it several times and typically do have parts leftover. But if installing a Coyote, I'd recommend getting it. BTW, for the Mk5, the Coyote accelerator pedal (commonly referred to as the DBW Drive By Wire) is a direct bolt-on. Finally.

3. The 3.55 IRS center section FF supplies is a standard Ford Performance catalog item. M-4001-88355B. Doesn't include anything except the center section itself. You can shop around and maybe save a little. But up to you. Many like having it delivered along with their kit. I did on my Mk5 kit.

[Blitzboy54]

Paul,

I think he talking about the Factory Five Advance Technology crate engine. This is specifically a FFR packaged coyote / drive train and there is definitely cross over with the installation kit if you look at the list.

https://www.factoryfive-at.com/

If the OP is not taking about this than please ignore everying I’ve said to this point.

[edwardb]

Paul,

I think he talking about the Factory Five Advance Technology crate engine. This is specifically a FFR packaged coyote / drive train and there is definitely cross over with the installation kit if you look at the list.

https://www.factoryfive-at.com/

If the OP is not taking about this than please ignore everying I’ve said to this point.

I only see two things on the 16863-Gen 3 & 4 Coyote Installation Kit that's listed on the Factory Five Coyote/TXK package: Oil pressure adapter and air filter. Not listed are a whole bunch of other essential parts, e.g. the motor mount spacers, clutch switch mounts, MAF tube, 90 degree intake, mounting brackets for the PCM and PDB, plus a large bag of fittings, hoses, etc. IMO, the price is a little steep. But the major parts are necessary. I've never tried to price them individually. Maybe the crossover you're thinking of is the 16427-Hydraulic Clutch Throw-Out Bearing and 17680-EFI In-Tank Fuel System. Both are on the kit order form and also listed as part of the supplied engine package. But not what the OP asked about.

[Ejzajac]

Thanks for the detailed discussion. FF gave me a bit more information on the 10683 KIT. I agree, the cost seems a bit pricey for what is in the kit. It does NOT include the Coyote accelerator pedal, Air Intake Filter or EFI fuel tank system. According to their sales, virtually everyone ops-in for this kit. The Ford Coyote Control Pack does includes the accelerator pedal. If it wasn't for the insights/guidance from the FF Forum, don't know if I would ever take on this exciting project! Thanks again.

Ed

[Ejzajac]

It appeared there were NO new Coyote Gen 3 available, but one of our vendors/Mike has a few left on the shelf.
With Ford price increases, the Gen 3 is about $1,500 less than a Gen 4X. Perhaps the Coyote experts can help me decide.
Are the differences worth the price differential?

Ed

[Blitzboy54]

The gen 4 has more HP but not by a lot. It also utilizes the dual intake manifold in the Mustang that is not used in the Roadster so I am not sure how much of that HP gain is a result of that intake. Also the bolt pattern in different on one side of the exhaust manifold on the 4x. This has largely been addressed with the new headers from FFR.

At the end of the day it's largely preference. I would not hesitate to put a Gen 3 in my build. It's pretty tried and true at this point.

Having said all that you will have to make a number of physical changes to the engine. It's all listed in the build manual. Alternator, oil pan, oil pickup, and sensors to name a few. You will have to source your own bellhousing, transmission and clutch. You will also need a control pack. Once you add all that up it ends up being pretty close to what FFR offers in their 4x crate package. The control pack comes with a generic tune. According to FFR their package includes the control pack with their tune on it.

If it were me to do it again I probably pull the trigger on the 4x crate from FFR. But you can't go wrong either way.

[edwardb]

The Gen4X Coyote crate motor (https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-M50H) has a single throttle body and the same HP and torque ratings as the Gen 3. There's a crate version of the dual throttle body version (what's in a Mustang) but that intake setup hasn't been proven for our builds that I know of. Plus in the release info, Ford Performance said the tune was locked in that version. There are some block, oiling, and cooling differences between the Gen 3 and Gen 4 (Google it) but for our purposes likely not a big deal. As already mentioned, there is a difference on the LH exhaust header between the two. The Gen 3 has been out of production for some time, so mostly not available. Certainly an option if you can find one for some savings. I have a Gen 3 in my Coupe. Runs great. Love it.

[LSX]

Hey guys. Im in the same process as the OP and just want to verify based on the responses that if i purchase the Gen4 and Transmission through Factory Five AT, I still would need to purchase the Coyote installation kit? My sales Rep said I would not need that if I purchased through Factory Five AT.

Thank you

[edwardb]

Hey guys. Im in the same process as the OP and just want to verify based on the responses that if i purchase the Gen4 and Transmission through Factory Five AT, I still would need to purchase the Coyote installation kit? My sales Rep said I would not need that if I purchased through Factory Five AT.

Thank you

Their website lists all the parts included with their Gen4 and transmission package. None of the parts in the 16863 - Gen 3 & 4 Coyote Installation Kit (includes coyote accelerator install and fitment kits) are listed there. I haven't purchased any engines or transmissions from them. But I have purchased two kits with the Coyote installation kit. So familiar with what's included. Unless something's changed or the website is wrong. Perhaps the answer is confused with 17860 EFI kit? Those parts do appear to be included with their engine/trans.

[LSX]

Thats what I was assuming as well. Ill verify before I actually place the order with them. Thank you.

[Papa]

Ed,

Here are some of the pages from my inventory with Coyote-specific parts provided by FFR. I'm not sure which are unique to the Coyote install kit, and which are triggered by the Coyote engine selection. Note that I haven't ordered my engine from them yet, but that will contain the control pack and DBW throttle pedal among other things. The biggest overlap in parts I see from the engine package is that they provide fuel system components that I sourced myself. I also ordered the hydraulic clutch option with my kit, and there are some parts specific to that in my inventory as well.







Dave

[Ejzajac]

That does help. Thank you once again. Waiting on a completion date.
Ed