Seattle Snake - Roadster mk5 planning thread

[DancingTosan]

This is my Roadster (mk5) planning thread. I'll start a separate thread for the build itself (ideally in 2026~, gotta get some money together).

My rough plan is to order a 'minimal' kit with all of the heavy stuff + small things I'll need right away, but leave out stuff I can order later. This will let me spread out the costs over time, rather than a ~$40k kit + ~$20k engine/trans up front. The minimal kit runs about $33k, which is still a good chunk. All in, it's looking like $70k~$80k total build cost.

I may swap out some of the parts for aftermarket ones, but having low up-front experience, I'm nervous about how/where/what for 'junkyard' and aftermarket alternatives - I want to be sure I get what I actually need and not some junk I can't use.

Goals for the build

• Quality time with my kids
• Enjoy the build
• Learn a lot
• Cruise around looking cool, when it's not raining (after it's done)

I want an modern, clean, fuel-efficient and low-effort engine. After researching the options, the Coyote (gen3 or 4) seem like the best bet. They have more power than I need (480hp is a lot more than the 300hp is recommended for the chassis), but by all accounts the Coyote is well-behaved at lower speeds, and shouldn't launch into space unless I get heavy-footed. The FactoryFive-AT option seems pretty pricey, but Mike Forte's option is only about $1k cheaper - but if it has everything I'd need, I would consider getting it from there.

Planning on a hard or soft top to make three-season driving a possibility in the PNW -- where we get only about four months of convertible-driving weather in the year.

I'm will update this post (with edits) over time and use it as my planning center to prepare the project.

Comments, suggestions and so forth are welcome.

Here's the plan so far:

Roadster mk5 Kit

• 14222 - 4.6L/5.0L Coyote/7.3L Godzilla Mounts
• 17823 - 2015 Mustang-based IRS Kit with KONI coil-overs, etc.
• 17150 - Front & Rear IRS Sport Shock Set
• 16668 - 2018 Mustang IRS 3.55 Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs
• Or donor?
• 60175 - 31 spline driveshaft for 4.6L/5.0L Coyote with Tremec TKX/TKO
• 16461 - 5.0L Coyote Power Steering Rack Kit (edit: was Manual steering)
• 16613 - Powder Coated Chassis, Satin Black
• 17657 - Chrome Driver Side 1.5" Rollbar
• 12239 - 14” Wood Steering Wheel
• 17728 - Mk5 Body with Cut-Outs
• 17742 - Carbon Fiber Dash with Glove Box
• 17617 - 2" Wide 5-point Street/Competition Harness, Satin Black Buckles
• 15834 - GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex
• 15834X - Additional GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex
• 16863 - Gen 3 & 4 Coyote Installation Kit (includes coyote accelerator install and fitment kits)
• 16796 - Headers: Gen 1-4 5.0L Coyote stainless steel 4-port full length with ball flange collector (edit - was omit for Gas 'N Headers)
• 17620 - Uncoated/Bare Steel Side Exhaust (edit - was omit for Gas 'N Touring)
• All no-cost options (‘cause why not)
• Gauges delete or resell
• Seats delete or resell
• Scoop delete or resell
• Cable clutch delete or resell (edit - aftermarket hydraulic)

Aftermarket

• Gas ‘N Pipes Touring Side Pipes (polished stainless) (edit - wait and see)
• Cobrastuff.com - 29" Chrome Finish Sidepipe Heat Shield Kit
• Cobraseats USA - Classic CS
• Tires - Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4
• Thomas Aftermarket Grille
• Hydraulic clutch kit (Tilton internal?) (edit)

Parts to order later (or aftermarket alternatives)

• 15812 - Vintage Halibrand Replica Wheels, 18” X 9” Front and 18” X 11” Rear
• 12042 - Sun Visors
• 15549 – Vintage Wiper Kit
• 17814 - Mk5 Over-Rider Bumper Kit
• 60378 - A/C - Heater-Defroster for 5.0L Coyote
• 17660 - Chrome Passenger Side 1.5" Rollbar
• 15158 - Rollbar Grommet Set, Driver Side
• 15158X - Rollbar Grommet Set, Passenger Side
• 60750 - 13" IRS Brake Kit
• 16037 - IRS Front & Rear Swaybar (edit - wait and see)
• 17680 - EFI In-Tank Fuel System (Edit - consider aftermarket alternatives to F5 version)
• 17712 - Remote Brake Booster
• 17664 - Mk5 Hard Top, Carbon Fiber
• Or 15199 - Mk5 Soft Top

Engine compartment

• Engine - Coyote gen4
• Transmission - Tremec TKX
• Breeze 70807 Radiator fan shroud (if needed)?
• Breeze 70031 Radiator Cowl cover (if needed)?
• Summit FLX-105490 radiator fan (if needed)?
• Larger Coolant overflow tank? (edit: see EdwardB's build thread for mounting ideas)
• Locking header bolts?
• Bad boy horn?

Exterior

• Quick-release license-plate holders? (hard-top looks like it will require moving license-plate)
• Backup light(s) + camera?
• Additional brake-light bar
• “Coyote” side badges (2bking custom billetbadges) ?
• Cobra emblems (front, rear, steering wheel, mats)

Interior

• Dynamat dynaliner (sound deadening + heat)
• Fat mat?
• Dead pedal?
• Sound system + carplay + backup camera screen
• Two 'triple' Speed Hut Vintage-style gauges (to make room for screen on the dash) (edit - forgot these)
• Breeze cubby?
• USB charging ports?
• Iphone charger pad?
• Cupholders (Poker dual-size, low profile)
• Estopp parking break?
• Rivnuts for some panels
• Hidden killswitch for security?
• Alternative rear-view mirror?
• Cobra emblem for steering wheel?
• Seat heater pads?

Body + Paint

• DIY fitment, basic body work
• Paint shop paint
• Maybe - Mazda Soul Red Crystal Metallic
• Maybe - some candy/metallic blue

Home Shop

• 4-post lift? APlusLifts or Halo?
• to aid build and longer-term to store four cars in a three-car garage and winter storage
• wall-mounted garage door opener? Genie?
• to clear-out headroom for the lifted car

[Nigel Allen]

I converted my car to power steering after a couple of years on the road. Would never, ever consider going back to manual. Such a better driving experience.

I switched to gasn touring sidepipes about 6 months ago. My FFR pipes had blown out the deadener on the right side. Quieter with gasn at low rpm, but the note was definitely better with the FFR pipes. Apparently FFR are supplying pipes with better packing now? I would investigate.

Cheers,
Nige

[DancingTosan]

I converted my car to power steering after a couple of years on the road. Would never, ever consider going back to manual. Such a better driving experience.

I switched to gasn touring sidepipes about 6 months ago. My FFR pipes had blown out the deadener on the right side. Quieter with gasn at low rpm, but the note was definitely better with the FFR pipes. Apparently FFR are supplying pipes with better packing now? I would investigate.

Cheers,
Nige

the $1.2k-ish coyote power steering pack is pretty pricey, so for me it falls into the “can do later if needed” bucket. I want the steering to be connected to the wheels and I’ve driven a manual steering car before; so I thought I’d start there.

I want quieter pipes, and from other forum threads it seems like the gas n touring pipes are still the pipes-to-beat for that, in terms of quality, tone and loudness — even accounting for mk5 improved pipes. At $1k for the ffr stainless version, the gas ‘n pipes aren’t too much more.

Thanks for the feedback!

[edwardb]

Welcome. That's a nice list. You've clearly put some thought and effort into this. Random comments based on several builds and experience:

Unless you have a very specific purpose in mind, you won't save much deleting standard parts from the kit. My advice is include the parts, check them out and mock up during the build, and if you still feel like replacing, then sell. I've had good luck selling NIB (e.g. unused) parts for around 50% of their FFR retail price. Specifics I'd include in this category: Headers and side pipes. Factory Five has upped their game on these and Gas-N is going through some changes.
New Gen 3 Coyotes aren't around any more. You're almost for sure going to get a Gen 4 if new.
FF's hydraulic clutch kit is an internal throw-out bearing type. And not a brand I have a high opinion of. I do really like and have used the Tilton internal throw-out bearing on a couple builds. It's a simple add with the bearing, an added master cylinder (bolts right to the standard Wilwood pedal box) and a hose. The external is usual purchased from Forte. Although (IMO!) is a little pricey and I like the internal better. You'll get lots of other opinions on that last part.
Get your own EFI pump and related. Good options out there.
Huge power steering fan. Don't build without it. And if you read the forum just a little you know those of us that promote do it for how it improves the front end geometry and how the car drives. It's not only about the effort. Your man card is intact.
Sway bars are bolt on and can certainly be added later. But fair warning, for the rear on the IRS there's a bracket that has to be added and its held in place by two of the major suspension bolts. Much easier to install those brackets during the initial build.
Lots of Mustang center sections available in salvage. You're looking at maybe saving $500 - $600. Worth it for a $70k~$80k build? You decide.
The kit supplied cooling fan is fine in my experience. The Coyote is a cool running engine. Some say the fan is noisy. I can't hear it over everything else.
Look at some of the builds (including mine) and check out the Mustang based cooling arrangement vs. the standard overflow bottle shown in the FF instructions. Highly recommended.
Not sure the Breeze 70031 fits a Mk5. The radiator arrangement on the Mk5 is different than before.

That's enough from me. Good luck.

[DancingTosan]

Thanks for the great feedback, EdwardB!

I'm a software engineer who likes making small-scale models, this build would gibe us a chance to flex into new territory, but it's definitely pretty daunting learning curve. Fortunately, I have about a year before I can justify the spend, so time to learn!

I'll respond to a few points:

re: good effort
I've got time, not money right now, so I'm putting the effort into planning so that when the kit is here, I have a better chance of finishing it without tears.

re: deleting
that's why I listed "delete or resell". I was actually planning on getting the cheapest version of each option and use that as you say (or resell).

From what I've found, the deletion credit F5 gives you isn't very much, and is easily what can be recouped via resale.

re: power steering
I'll consider the power steering, but the Coyote kit is so pricey (nearly $1.2k), I might look for another option. Seems easy enough to add later.

re: sway bars
Sway bars are still in the plan, I will just be buying them later when I am ready for them, not up-front. The kit purchase is optimized for maximizing value from Stewart Transport shipping dollars and minimizing the up-front spend. Lots of the 'standard size shipping box' options I'm saving for later purchase (eg, the 2nd rollbar).

Good to know about the rear swaybar, I thought from the front install I checked out, seemed pretty easy to pop on. The rear IRS adds complexity for sure, but I want it to stick to the road and handle well.

re: EFI pump
I'd be happy to hear some options!

re: salvage rear-end
I might do that by the time I get the kit, I hope to have a better idea what I would look for and what I would need to do to a salvage rear-end. I've read about shortening axles and ensuring the correct differential (and potentially replacing some of the gears, if they're worn), both things I'm not 100% sure about how to do, yet. Though I will budget build-school if I don't get enough experience helping out with other F5 builds in the seattle area first.

re: cooling fan
I was planning on starting with the F5 one, but I want the car to be quieter on the whole. Replacement fan should be easy to "do later" and the aftermarket ones are pretty cheap, so it's not a major concern.

re: clutch
I was considering a Tilton internal one, actually. I read good things about them, I'm only concerned about fitment. Sounds like it's a good option! I want to do hydraulic because the cable clutch F5 provides hasn't gotten great reviews on forums.

re: coyote gen3
I'm planning on a gen4, just open to a gen3 if I stumble across a bargain. I figure there might be some low-miles gen3's around to consider by the time I need one.


Your comments are very helpful! Thanks for helping me fine-tune the plan!

[edwardb]

Responses to your responses and then I'll get out of the way for others. Hopefully you'll get other responses and opinions.

With the IRS option, there's no need to think about shortening axles. That's strictly a function of a solid axle build. The IRS option, when selected, includes the proper length IRS CV axles. Yes, you can change gear ratios in the IRS center section. I've done it on the older solid axle 8.8 diffs. But the "super 8.8" IRS requires the case to be stretched and at least IMO not a DIY job. No issues for a pro, but then the cost goes up. You're correct to think about the right ratio. With a Coyote and TKX, can't really go wrong with 3.55 for a mostly street cruiser. That's what Factory Five sells (the only aftermarket version from Ford Performance) and also the most common in the marketplace. These diffs are very robust, so if you do go salvage and get one with low mileage and appears to be in good shape the risk is pretty low. If you have to refurb, the value proposition isn't great IMO. One more comment on this topic. As you may have seen in some of the posts and build threads, loading the IRS diff into the chassis is kind of a rite of passage. A little difficult, especially for first time builders, and most relieved when done. The rear cover is blocked by the chassis. So if necessary to R&R, would have to come back out and in again. Something to think about.

Ah power steering... For a Coyote, the option Factory Five is offering is the KRC pump and Coyote bolt-on. I've used it several times. An absolutely top of the line setup and easy to install. My observation is that people who say they'll install PS later often don't. Not particularly difficult, but it is some work. Then the price of the manual rack is a write-off, the car has to be re-aligned, and so it goes. With the proper KRC flow valve, that setup is not overboosted and feels connected. It's a gamechanger for how the car drives. Again, not just about effort. I'm off my soapbox on that one.

EFI pump: Look at the Holley 12-345 and Aeromotive 18638. At 340 LPH, more than you need. But all-in-one solutions that drop into the Fox body Mustang tank and easier/cheaper options than in the past with a separate 3/8" hangar and pump. I'm using the Holley one on my current Mk5 build. There are likely other options, but these are two I know about.

The guys that know way more about driving and handling will probably tell you sway bars aren't needed for a street driven car. I've used them only because they were part of anniversary packages. No regrets, but probably not needed for me either.

Knock yourself out with a different cooling fan. But not necessarily an easy change either. That area is pretty tight on the Mk5. Just installed my shroud and fan a week or two ago. Likely the shroud would need to be changed as well. At least the ones I've looked at weren't the same size or bolt pattern as the kit provided DCM/Texdyne fan. The Coyote doesn't need the extra cooling, and even with quieter pipes, you really won't hear it.

I'm a huge fan of adding mods later if practical. But I also have found that once you get on the other side of the build and start driving (and counting the final cost...) you're less likely to take something away that's working and replace/upgrade it. Best to get the important stuff done the first time. But budget constraints are real. I get that. Good luck and hopefully this will happen for you in the not too distant future. It's a great experience.

[gbranham]

If you're saving for your kit purchase now, save juuuuust a bit longer to include that $1200 power steering kit, or even ditch these options and buy them later, since you won't need them for quite awhile:

• 17617 - 2" Wide 5-point Street/Competition Harness, Satin Black Buckles
• 15834 - GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex
• 15834X - Additional GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex

[DancingTosan]

If you're saving for your kit purchase now, save juuuuust a bit longer to include that $1200 power steering kit, or even ditch these options and buy them later, since you won't need them for quite awhile:

• 17617 - 2" Wide 5-point Street/Competition Harness, Satin Black Buckles
• 15834 - GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex
• 15834X - Additional GT400 Bullet Side View Mirror, Polished Aluminum, Convex

These are all 'free' (included in kit price) options, and the deletion credit isn't worth just getting them included with the kit.

[DancingTosan]

Responding to responses from EdwardB.

I hope to continue to get good advice from you and others! Please chip in with what you know.

I come at this with no experience building a F5 kit, and no experience living with these choices. In the game industry, we call this "theory-crafting", it's all in my head, imagining what the final result could be with a given choice or another.

I reached a good spot with my theory-crafting on the plan such that I couldn't imagine the results of choice (A) or (B), so I thought it would be a good point to put the plan out there and see how it fares under critical examination from others who DO have the experience and knowledge that I do not have.

I've made a few edits to the plan with this new information:

• Power steering in the initial kit
• F5 headers and base pipes (I may swap to the Gas N Touring later, if they straighten out their current issues. And the F5 headers seem pretty decent vs Gas N)
• Still leaning towards an aftermarket radiator fan (because, if it is tricky to replace later (as you say), then the small up-front cost delta to get a for-sure quiet fan is an easy choice)
• Plan for an aftermarket EFI fuel pump
• Plan for an aftermarket hydraulic clutch setup
• "Wait and see" on sway bars. I'm not sure i need them for my use case.

Getting some great info on this thread to improve The Plan!

The base kit cost is up to about $33.7k now, but that's still manageable.

As for why I'm not "just saving up more" before buying the base kit:
The kit takes time to build, so if I can get an optimized subset of the parts I need up-front, then I can start building sooner and add the missing parts in as I need them. And this way, I can avoid taking out a loan (and paying interest for stuff in boxes) or waiting another year to save the full amount before I even start on the project.

To my mind at least, it makes a lot of sense to do it this way: Pay over time, but without interest payments, on a build that takes time to complete.

To land that goal though, I need to optimize what I put in that initial Stewart Transport delivery -- anything heavy and/or bulky is better off included in the initial delivery. Smaller parts that can be shipped in 'normal boxes' for 'normal shipping prices' can wait, if I don't need them on day 1. I will pay some amount of extra shipping costs, but if I choose the parts for that category carefully, they should be marginal (at least compared to interest payments).


Thanks everyone for the feedback and critique of The Plan. I'm getting some great info and advice from more experienced folks!

[Tango]

For reference, I believe I was quoted a $200 credit for deleting the FFR side pipes, so I decided to keep them and use them until I had a reason not to. While they are on the car and look great, they have yet to make any sound. All the kit add ons that are not FFR items can be sourced elsewhere and usually for a decent savings. Engine/trans, rear diff, spindles, hubs, brakes, clutch etc all came from Forte and saved a significant amount. Also if you can have it delivered to a loading dock rather than residential it saves a decent amount on shipping. One suggestion (which is in line with your previous comments…..and something I would do differently), of course planning is great, but I would resist the urge of ordering everything (accessories, tools etc) up front and wait until closer to the time that it is needed because you will learn a lot through the process and your wants/needs will change. Good looking list.

[DancingTosan]

re:Tango

Yeah, at this point, I'm just going to get the bare metal side pipes and try to polish them myself, for a nicer shine, and maybe swap them out for Gas N touring later.

As for sourcing, my main worry is making sure I get all of the correct parts I need. I suppose Forte customer support could help identify the right parts (eg for the 'complete' engine/trans kit is more than just engine + trans).

Assuming a residential delivery, do you still think this would be a savings (for something like the IRS rear end, engine, trans, etc.) over having it bundled with the kit delivery (eg Stewart Transport); as presumably there'd be additional shipping costs to factor in?

I'm definitely on-board with ordering over-time, that's core to my build strategy. I will be getting a few things up front. Cleco rivet set, some core wrenches and things, and the lift, since that will be where I store the chassis while I work on it (and after it's done, to store the car).

Thanks for your feedback! I appreciate people taking time to offer suggestions and comments. It is really helping to optimize the build plan!

[Nigel Allen]

Mike Forte supplied me with a gen1 Coyote and TKO600 back in 2012. He organized and supplied everything needed, as this engine was not available in Australia at the time. I received a fully itemized quote, which gave me assurance. All parts were well packed and well priced. They also fitted the sump and trimmed the tail of the gearbox as part of the service.

I had to put a lot of trust in this company. I paid in full and shipping took 12 weeks. I was stoked with what I received. Can't speak highly enough of Forte as a business.

Cheers,

Nige

[gbranham]

Skip the lift, and build a chassis dolly for $50. Put money in something else.

[DancingTosan]

Skip the lift, and build a chassis dolly for $50. Put money in something else.

I need the lift for storing the car during the build and after it is complete; so I'm getting a four-post lift, suitable for car storage, but it doubles as a work lift as well.