Tesla Powered 33 Hot Rod

[Just 1 More]

Here's the rear..

Attachment 176906

http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE"

Do you know if these are the same width as the ones from FFR?

[progmgr1]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

[Just 1 More]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

I found it under fiberglass body panels all the way to the right http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/

[BradC]

Do you know if these are the same width as the ones from FFR?

I don't. I'm actually a little worried about that since the rear in mine is a little wider than stock. I couldn't shorten the Tesla suspension any more than I did and I think it's close. I need to drop the body back on and check but not until I get my charger problem sorted out. Worst case, it's just fiberglass. I don't have the skills to widen them but someone does!

[BradC]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

Not sure on that - the link works on my system.

[Mastertech5]

IMG_20221218_185701_hdr.jpg

[FF33rod]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

Attachment 176894

Congrats on getting the drive train running, excellent!!!!

Regarding the front bike style fenders, the rear of these need to be very close to the ground to stop stones from hitting the body and the front of the rear fenders in particular. Just a heads up warning.

Steve

[BradC]

Thanks!

Appreciate the advice on the front fenders. I don't think these go down super low in the back. I'll mess around with them later and see what range there is with the brackets they came with. I'll have protective film on the rear fenders for sure though when it's painted.

[BradC]

Been doing some wiring cleanup so it's drivable whenever I get the charger problem solved. Several 3D printed parts are in progress to help fully isolate the HV system from any chassis ground. This is two of them, just simple straddle spacers held by rubber lined zip ties so they can't slip. The rest are printing now.

IMG_3897.jpg

Slightly cleaner for the dash wiring now. I plan on doing it up a bit better when it goes back together for final after paint, but this is fine for now.

IMG_3898.jpg

Got the brakes bled and to my utter astonishment I had no leaks. Me and any sort of plumbing are not on friendly terms typically so I'll just have to assume this was a fluke. I'll take it though!

I ordered the aluminum panels for the floor patch and the bottom center channel. They're done already but I won't be able to pick them up until tomorrow. One day turnaround at a local shop is pretty good. I don't have a big enough sheer so it was cleaner and easier to just have them made.

I also took all the door frame and hinge hardware over for powder coating yesterday. I was told by the FFR body/paint expert in the area that those should be coated before assembly so they don't need to come back apart.

[RoadRacer]

Been doing some wiring cleanup so it's drivable whenever I get the charger problem solved. Several 3D printed parts are in progress to help fully isolate the HV system from any chassis ground. This is two of them, just simple straddle spacers held by rubber lined zip ties so they can't slip. The rest are printing now.

IMG_3897.jpg

Slightly cleaner for the dash wiring now. I plan on doing it up a bit better when it goes back together for final after paint, but this is fine for now.

IMG_3898.jpg

Got the brakes bled and to my utter astonishment I had no leaks. Me and any sort of plumbing are not on friendly terms typically so I'll just have to assume this was a fluke. I'll take it though!

I ordered the aluminum panels for the floor patch and the bottom center channel. They're done already but I won't be able to pick them up until tomorrow. One day turnaround at a local shop is pretty good. I don't have a big enough sheer so it was cleaner and easier to just have them made.

I also took all the door frame and hinge hardware over for powder coating yesterday. I was told by the FFR body/paint expert in the area that those should be coated before assembly so they don't need to come back apart.

Funny, I guess I expected your wiring to be this super neat given it's electric, but impressive nonetheless. These can look pretty messy behind the dash

I was the same way wth brakes.. expected something bad to happen, but since the day they were plumbed I've never had to tighten or seen any leaks.

[Mastertech5]

Yes, pretty neat compared to some though. Look at Street Rod Jim's latest reassembly video about wiring. Despite all his notes he got lost in it all and there are single wires all over like he took everything out of the harnesses.

[BradC]

Right! When it goes back together final I want to make sure the wiring is tucked up neat, but also still accessible. Never fails you end up needing to change or add something later. I'm not as flexible as I used to be so contorting up under the dash isn't fun.

[Mastertech5]

I did that for 40 years looking for shorts or changing a module. Not fun!

[BradC]

Yep. Not the place you want to get a neck cramp! Though I’m not sure where you would actually want a neck cramp.

[JimLev]

Nice that you don’t have that tranny tunnel cover, lots of free empty space!

[BradC]

Yeah, that’s a bonus with this setup. Allowed me to locate the throttle pedal over to the right more.

[BradC]

Wow - the powder coating place called me today and the parts I took in Monday are done already! There were 12 parts total including the larger door and hinge frames. They look great. I was expecting 2-3 weeks but they had a time gap with larger projects and slotted them in. I didn't want to mess with coating them myself because they needed a ton of deburring. The media blast they did got it all - would have taken me hours. This is one of the door frames.

IMG_3899.jpg

Went and picked up the floor panel and lower center panel today too. The floor fits perfect but I haven't tried the lower panel yet. I need to do some machining to the spacers I made for the lower battery boxes so it can slot in.

IMG_3900.jpg

Still no luck with the charger. I talked to EV West yesterday and did some current draw measurements. Everything appears to be operating as if the high voltage cut off value is programmed wrong. I'll have to pull it out again and take it back to Elcon to check the programming. It's a pain to get out but not much else I can do art this point.

[BradC]

I took the charger back to Elcon again today. We confirmed the programming is correct, but we did figure out the problem thankfully - it's my charging station amperage limit. I have a 30A, 240V circuit so the charging station I have limits the current to 24A. I thought the charger would just operate with what it has but that's not how it works. It's a 6600W charger so if it doesn't have enough power to operate at that level it just shuts off rather than adjusting the capacity down. I changed the charging station setting to 40A since it should only need about 27-28A, fired up the charger just temporarily, and it worked. However (UGH!!) when I disconnected it to restore all the BMS fault interrupt circuitry that I had disabled while troubleshooting, somehow the charger control module failed. No idea how.. It's not very expensive and not worth sending back so I just ordered another one. Irritating!!

While I'm waiting for the control module I'm going to have Elcon reprogram my charger for a lower power level. That's easier than upgrading the circuit in the garage because my sub-panel is already maxed out with our spa circuit.

[BradC]

Every time I get frustrated with electrical stuff it helps to do something mechanical. And yes, I'm aware of the irony that of my own doing I chose to build a mostly electrical car, and that I have no one to blame but myself. Ha..

Lower center panel installed. This shields the middle area where I ran wiring and coolant lines.

IMG_3904.jpg

[BradC]

Got the charger working! Turns out the charger controller didn't fail, my 12V battery (which powers the charge controller) just got too low and the internal relays of the controller were cycling without enough voltage - making a buzzing/clicking noise like something had failed. The 12V battery just needed a charge up. Now I have the extra module showing up but not a big deal - it was only $45. I feel batter that it didn't actually fail.

Elcon reprogrammed it to 5KW from 6.6KW for me yesterday. It will be able do a charge from zero to full in about 8-10 hours and won't push my 30A circuit anywhere close to trip. Most often with this car I'll plug it in after every drive so I should only be looking at a few hours in reality to top it off. It's unlikely I'll ever run it close to zero.

What I'm still missing is the ability to see state of charge (a fuel gauge). There aren't any aftermarket solutions out there for the higher voltage setups like this yet but EV West told me they're working on a CANBUS shunt that will talk to my BMS with a firmware update and show charge level on my controller display. That should be a nice solution.

[FF33rod]

Every time I get frustrated with electrical stuff it helps to do something mechanical. And yes, I'm aware of the irony that of my own doing I chose to build a mostly electrical car, and that I have no one to blame but myself. Ha..

Lower center panel installed. This shields the middle area where I ran wiring and coolant lines.

IMG_3904.jpg

That is rather funny!!! Glad you got the charger sorted. Have a great Christmas

Steve

[Mastertech5]

Glad to see it all worked out and only cost $45, extra. Lol. Have a great holiday!

[33fromSD]

Got the charger working! Turns out the charger controller didn't fail, my 12V battery (which powers the charge controller) just got too low and the internal relays of the controller were cycling without enough voltage - making a buzzing/clicking noise like something had failed. The 12V battery just needed a charge up. Now I have the extra module showing up but not a big deal - it was only $45. I feel batter that it didn't actually fail.

Elcon reprogrammed it to 5KW from 6.6KW for me yesterday. It will be able do a charge from zero to full in about 8-10 hours and won't push my 30A circuit anywhere close to trip. Most often with this car I'll plug it in after every drive so I should only be looking at a few hours in reality to top it off. It's unlikely I'll ever run it close to zero.

What I'm still missing is the ability to see state of charge (a fuel gauge). There aren't any aftermarket solutions out there for the higher voltage setups like this yet but EV West told me they're working on a CANBUS shunt that will talk to my BMS with a firmware update and show charge level on my controller display. That should be a nice solution.

Looking good Brad. Curious on your charge plans. On my wife's EV (Mustang Mach-e) Ford suggests not letting the battery get lower than 10% before charging (never lower) and don't charge past 80-90%. We charge it the it hits ~15% and charge it to 90% each time. Ocassionally after a SW push update the charge setting gets changed and it's charges to 100% but the Ford rep I talked to noted this is not an issue as long as it's not done every time. This is supposedly due to battery memory / life.

Topping off is a huge discussion on most EV forums where the popular vote is "don't do it". The Ford rep also frowned on topping off unless it's extremely cold weather (below zero temps) and you charge outside.

Your comment above seems to lean towards topping off constantly. I think you noted once you have different batteries than most EVs, are there any concerns on your set up for shortening battery life from constant topping off? All batteries have some sort of memory don't they?

Jim

[BradC]

Hi Jim,

Good points.. I guess topping off is a relative term between a production EV and what I'm doing. Does "90%" mean the same thing car to car? I don't know the answer to that. What I meant by it was that I would keep it ready to go with a full charge since it won't be a daily driver - but I was basing that on what my e-bike says to do (also lithium-ion batteries). You're supposed to keep it charged at full unless you plan on long term non-use. But, I also don't know where the charge cut-off is set for that. I have a high voltage cut off value of 4.2V per cell for my EV packs that I was thinking was the safe max charge point for the batteries - and EV West had my charger programmed for that value (382V total). What you mentioned makes me think I should verify that assumption though. I don't have a % charge readout yet so I'll need to go by cell voltage. I can also adjust that cut off value in the BMS so that it would trigger a fault that cuts off the charger before it hits 4.2V per cell.

I'll look into that more. Thanks for the post!

[33fromSD]

Hi Jim,

Good points.. I guess topping off is a relative term between a production EV and what I'm doing. Does "90%" mean the same thing car to car? I don't know the answer to that. What I meant by it was that I would keep it ready to go with a full charge since it won't be a daily driver - but I was basing that on what my e-bike says to do (also lithium-ion batteries). You're supposed to keep it charged at full unless you plan on long term non-use. But, I also don't know where the charge cut-off is set for that. I have a high voltage cut off value of 4.2V per cell for my EV packs that I was thinking was the safe max charge point for the batteries - and EV West had my charger programmed for that value (382V total). What you mentioned makes me think I should verify that assumption though. I don't have a % charge readout yet so I'll need to go by cell voltage. I can also adjust that cut off value in the BMS so that it would trigger a fault that cuts off the charger before it hits 4.2V per cell.

I'll look into that more. Thanks for the post!

Make sense. Thanks

Jim

[BradC]

Had a little set back when I couldn't get the coolant pump to stay primed where I had it located in the rear. I evacuated the system, but still couldn't get all the air moved up front. I had to rethink things a bit and I ended up changing the pump location and the radiator orientation. Had to make new mounting brackets and move the pump wiring but I got it all back together and got the system filled and bled this morning. All flowing nicely now. Front fenders are mounted too.

IMG_3915.jpg IMG_3913.jpg

It's all ready to go-kart but the weather isn't going to allow for a few days. Not the best idea to take all that bare steel out in the rain anyway. That's fine, we need the rain more than I need to test drive it. I'll get working on drilling all the chassis sheet metal and screwing it down. It'll be riveted on final assembly later.

[Mastertech5]

I see you got other fenders. Did you get rears too and where from? Fronts look good. How did you mount them?
Never mind. I missed the previous posts on this subject.

[BradC]

They aren't as functional I think as the FFR ones in terms of front fender coverage but whatever - they fit the look I wanted. Hopefully protective film will help. They came with brackets that attach to the same points on the spindle that the FFR ones do. One thing I wasn't happy with is the left and right have a slightly different shape inboard where the brackets attach. The main part matches though. I'll have the body shop even them up when it's in for paint later.

I'm hoping the rears fit with my wheels. I'll set the body back on once I get the sheet metal screwed down and see.

[BradC]

I've been working out some new issues with the motor controller that popped up. I haven't driven it yet but after messing with spinning the wheels in the air a few times the BMS communication and brake switch function stopped working. I went through all the wiring - again - and didn't find any problems. I emailed the motor controller mfg. and after some back and forth it seems like there's a degenerative bug with the firmware. They're working on a new one and hopefully it'll be ready next week. Still raining like crazy here anyway so it's not really holding up anything.

I was also having no luck getting the electric parking brakes to grab. I'm using an aftermarket controller with the Tesla calipers and it's just not applying anywhere close to enough pressure. The guy who makes the controller has been great and after some discussion he was cool with just giving me rework instructions to increase the output current (vs. sending it back to PA possibly several times). Ordered some tiny resistors and I'll pull some favors with the rework lab at work to make the changes. Hopefully that solves it.

[BradC]

Set the body back on and got the first two rear mounting points aligned, drilled, and bolted up. I need to pull it back off and do some clearancing on the fiberglass here and there to get the front fitting tighter. Still trying to decide how much to do myself vs. just letting the body shop do it. They've done hundreds of FFR cars and have it all dialed in - plus I'd probably do something stupid that they'd just need to fix anyway. I've done enough body work to know I'm not good at it. I'll probably just go that route and spare myself all the nasty fiberglass dust.

I want to go with 3 point seatbelts so I've been researching that a bit. I think I have some picked out so I just need to make sure the mounting points will work out. I'll take some measurements tomorrow and probably roll the dice and order them. Not very expensive anyway.

[33fromSD]

I'm on my 12th full rotisserie restoration (some frame off restorations) all steel cars and I actually found fiberglass to be a pleasure to work with. I'm not sure if it was just something new so I was more tolerant to body work or if it was truly easier but I enjoyed it. Easy to work with, a lot more forgiving than steel, easier to shape than steel (less steps). Need more material or make a mistake, pull out the glass / resin and fix it verses spending hours shaping the metal, then welding, then grinding, then body filler, etc..

Since I only use my 33 as an occasional cruiser in the city I left the 5 point harnesses in the 33 but tucked them behind the seat and added old school lap belts. If I ever take a longer trip I'll use the 5 point, but I don't see that happening since I have much more comfortable toys to use for long term cruises.

Jim

[BradC]

I think my problem is patience. Bodywork requires it and I'm short on supply in that area. And, I just don't enjoy it. People who can do metalwork are so impressive though. I love watching what like Joe Martin's and Kindig's team can do - but on TV they can do it all in like 10-15 minutes. And then the body guys have it all ready for paint in another 10-15. If only....

My 33 will be my only fun car so I'll need practical, comfortable belts. Space limits me to one toy car at a time (until we move!! haha). I'm looking at these: https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html. Looks like if I extend the roll bar mounts on the frame up as far as possible the top loops can be mounted up high enough. I'm thinking they will just bolt through the waterfall which should look ok. I'm not doing a roll bar.

[33fromSD]

Agree they will look fine. I can add the roll bar if needed but I leave it out too.

Jim

[Just 1 More]

I think my problem is patience. Bodywork requires it and I'm short on supply in that area. And, I just don't enjoy it. People who can do metalwork are so impressive though. I love watching what like Joe Martin's and Kindig's team can do - but on TV they can do it all in like 10-15 minutes. And then the body guys have it all ready for paint in another 10-15. If only....

My 33 will be my only fun car so I'll need practical, comfortable belts. Space limits me to one toy car at a time (until we move!! haha). I'm looking at these: https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html. Looks like if I extend the roll bar mounts on the frame up as far as possible the top loops can be mounted up high enough. I'm thinking they will just bolt through the waterfall which should look ok. I'm not doing a roll bar.

Very interesting, i'm watching to see how you do these

[progmgr1]

I've got seat belts on the list of issues to consider when (if) I finally get to go-cart. Past forum research led to the following posts from other builders:

I got the three-point retractable belts with aircraft buckles from Wesco (http://www.wescoperformance.com/). I fabricated mounts out of some thick steel I had lying around.

I bought a set from Seatbeltsplus.com 3 Point Retractable Seat Belt, End Release Button, 22" Cable
Make sure you get the 22" cable so that it is long enough. I mounted the retractor to the outer FF5 floor brackets and the cable to the inner FF5 floor brackets. I fabricated brackets to slip around the roll bar to attach the shoulder harness. I used 1" ID O-rings above and below the brackets to keep them in position. The cable with the latch must run inside http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachm...hotrod-93-.jpg

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachm...hotrod-90-.jpg

Alternative 4 belt seatbelt with retractor: http://corbeau.com/other/harness-bel...ness-belt.html $109.
I have Schroth's Profi II ASM FE a four point system with their proprietary system (they call it ASM) to prevent submarining with just four belts. Recommended to prevent crushing intestines in crash.

The Schroth system sounds particularly interesting since most builders dislike the 5th belt, and having retractors on a 4 belt system is much more user friendly than the stock FFR system, IMHO.

I hope the above gives you some useful alternatives to consider.

Keith HR #894

[BradC]

Thanks Keith! Those Corbeau retractable ones look really cool. I saw the other posts but hadn't come across those yet. Seems like they would attach to the points already there in the car too, which allows for a higher upper point. I think I'll buy one and try it out. I bought one of the others too so I can compare.

Corbeau Seat Belt.jpg

[BradC]

Actually, not sure those will work out. Using some scaling on the image I'm pretty sure the distance between the upper mount point and where the belt splits is way too long for this car. Even if I mounted them farther back to the trunk panel, the back of my neck would sit right near the split in the belt. That wouldn't be comfortable since I'll need the seat all the way back while driving. They're meant for car with a back seat maybe. Oh well - was worth a look.

[BradC]

We got a break in the rain today so I just went ahead and took it out around our court for a quick first run (even though the controller firmware problem is still there). Went great!! I have the controller limited to 100KW. The motor is capable of about 265KW. The short burn out in the video here is maybe half throttle. So as expected this will have stupid power - nothing wrong with that!! I'll look more into the GPS based traction control that I can add to the motor controller. Might be a good idea for rolling acceleration since the torque is so high and the car is so light.

Wheel alignments are just eyeballed right now and of course there is more weight to be added as it builds out, but it's clear just from the first drive that keeping the rear wheels hooked up will be a challenge. This thing is gonna be fun to drive! Brakes worked fine, no weird noises, and the rear suspension seems fine. I drove it a lot more than the 1 minute here in the video, over curbs, and of course several more times breaking the rear wheels loose. It should only get better as I dial it in more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timBdaZ6s8k

[Mastertech5]

Way cool! I'm happy for you.IMG_20221218_185701_hdr.jpg

[progmgr1]

Congratulations on the first drive! Big milestone. The car looks really good, except for that weirdly empty engine compartment (compared to mine with the Coyote, power brakes, etc., etc.) Sorry the seat belt ideas didn't work out. Do they have other configurations that might fit better? The catalog was pretty extensive, IIRC.

Keith HR #894