Tesla Powered 33 Hot Rod

[BradC]

Making progress. I have the two custom harnesses from the controller to the motor all assembled and ready connect - but, I accidentally broke a latch tab inside the ModICE connector that goes to the controller and had to order a new one. Ugh... Not too bad though, at least I could find it on Newark and it's supposed to be here tomorrow.

Wires for the electric rear parking brakes, DC to DC converter, and charger are all routed from front to back and hooked up. The contactor box is all done too.That houses the positive and negative contactors, pre-charge relay and resistor, and fuses for the charger and DC-DC. This is definitly the "Don't Touch!!" area once the HV lines are hot.

IMG_3828.jpg

I decided to thin out the stock chassis harness now instead of later. Less bulk and I might as well do it now while it's all fresh in my mind vs. later when I've forgotten what's what. The rear tail light harness section is done and I'm goinna try and tackle the main haness at the fuse box today. That mianly means removing all the guage wiring and re-reouting some of the stock engine control circuits to power things like the motor oil pump and coolant pump.

[Mastertech5]

Yeah, that looks ominous. The Hands off Box! Your getting there.

[Mastertech5]

Brad, I know it was awhile since you had your LS3 experience but I've asked 2 other builders with LS3 power about a pink wire in the engine harness that needs to be connected to the FFR harness per 12V hot in start and run.

IMG_20221128_104545_hdr.jpg
I was wondering if you remembered how you made this connection. I can't seem to find this pink wire for the connection they are talking about.

[BradC]

Hi. I sort of remember the pink switched 12V line to the ECU because I had a hidden kill switch that cut that feed to prevent it from being easily hot wired at the keyed switch. I think that's the one you're talking about. It was just whatever normal ignition switched 12V line I picked. Looking at the 33 diagram I think maybe the tan 'Electric Choke' line should work and maybe isn't used already in your build? Even if it is you can probably split it if the current draw allows. There are other leads too of course but I was guessing the Choke lead might be free.

Schematic Clip.JPG

[BradC]

I got the main harness all thinned out of the stuff I don't need and it's much cleaner and compact now. I'll post pics next time since I still have some things hanging loose. I have the 12V system wiring all installed and mostly alive with the power steering and the electronic parking brake controller working. I ordered a nicer ignition switch than what came with the kit. Wasn't really impressed with it so I went with one from Ron Francis. There's a whole thread on that too so it seems maybe there were supply issues for what they used to include? Not a big deal.

The EV controller connector I ordered for the one I broke was wrong. Apparently there are left/right versions with different keying - ugh. I found the right one and it should be here tomorrow. Not too far off from powering up the motor once I get that all hooked up.

[Mastertech5]

Its where in the GM harness do I connect to for ECM power up? I'm lost on this point. I cannot find any loose pink wire that they mention in the intructions. I can't find a diagram anywhere.

Nevermind! I found it. It was hanging out of the accelerator pedal connection harness. I BAD!

[BradC]

Oh. Sorry, misunderstood you. Glad you found it!

[BradC]

Ok - some updates to post. This is what all the wiring looks like so far. Pretty much everything is there, just not fully connected to the controller and buttoned up yet. It's thinned out quite a bit from the way the harness was originally for the kit so I'm glad I went through and did that first. There are one or two more leads to run to the back but I'm still trying to figure out the charger triggering circuit. Learning more daily on it though.

IMG_3852.jpg

When I got the charger it was missing the 220V in connector. I've been working with EV West for months trying to get it replaced. Yesterday for the heck of it on a boring work meeting I searched around to see if I could just buy one and be done with it. Turns out the Elcon distributor is in Sacramento 20 miles from my house!! Go figure. I emailed them and they replied right away familiar with my issue already, and just waiting (for a while now) for EV West to send them my address. So I went and picked it up today. They also answered a lot of questions I had about the charging circuit which was a big help too. Crazy..

[Mastertech5]

Sometimes you just have to handle stuff yourself.

[BradC]

Got the charge port bracket I had made welded in. The aluminum plate on the face is a blank I had SendCutSend make too. It was again cheaper than buying the material to make it myself. Amazing. I'll be machining some cosmetic details in it later to make it look nice.

IMG_3853.JPG IMG_3855.jpg IMG_3856.jpg IMG_3857.jpg

I want to keep the dash very simple so I mounted the headlight switch to the right of the column - 3D printed bracket. It's easy to reach but hidden a bit.

IMG_3858.jpg

[shackf16]

I just discovered your build when you posted the link over on diyelectriccar.com. I have a Mk3 Cobra that I nearly converted to a Tesla Model S LDU when I decided to tear it all down and rebuild it, but stayed with the ICE performance 306 that I had already sunk a lot of money into. I am planning to convert my daily driver 2016 Ford Escape to a Tesla Model S SDU (possible dual motor setup) and those LG Chem batteries are one of my considerations for Stage 1 of that conversion. Most folks on the electric car forum seem concerned about those batteries as they don't really have a provision for cooling, but it sounds like EV West is having success using them without cooling so maybe that's not an issue. That was one of the main reasons I was probably going to go with the Pacifica LG Chem batteries or possibly Mustang Mach-E since they both have the aluminum cooling plates already sandwiched into the battery module. I think I want to wait and see how your temps look before I make a final decision.

What are you using for gauges? I don't remember seeing that but I admit I may have missed it as I binged your entire thread...

[BradC]

Thanks for checking out my build thread! Yeah, the cooling thing was something I looked into a lot before I decided on those packs. I had several talks with Michael Bream about them and the builds they have done. EV West seals the boxes completely and they stack the packs in direct contact - sealed well from water and dirt but zero ventilation. They were such a good form factor for my build I just kept coming back to them. I designed my boxes a bit different just to add a little extra margin. They have front to back venting and the packs are supported by 80/20 rails that allow airflow between and around the outer sides. If I planned to track the car I wouldn't have gone with these LG packs, but it's purely a fair-weather car. I won't be driving it in rain or on hot summer days, and mostly just normal driving other than the occasional throttle mash. I'll be monitoring the temps of course and I'll have a manual switch to kick on the radiator fan if needed (it's driven by inverter temperature automatically). Plus the controller will scale back power draw if the packs exceed 50C. We'll see!

For gauges I'm using an iPad mini. The T-2C controller has a nice interface and connects by Bluetooth. I'll design and machine a mounting panel that looks the part for a 33 and holds the iPad, drive mode and parking brake switches, probably a voltage indicator for the 12V system, and whatever else I end up needing.

[shackf16]

50C is "only" 122F, which here in southern AZ can be close to the dry bulb temp on a hot summer day. Maybe these modules aren't such a good option for my daily driver application. I was expecting to have some active cooling via chill plates attached to the Pacifica LG modules, so that's probably what I'll have to stay with. It complicates the plumbing a little, but the charger/DCDC that I am looking at is water cooled so there is already some active cooling involved.

I'll be following your build for future updates and look forward to seeing the completed car!

Shack

[Mastertech5]

See what you started. It's a revolution! Go dude!

[BradC]

I’m tryin’ !!

[33fromSD]

Very cool build, I will give you that hands down, but on the EV front itself moving into the mainstream choice of vehicles I have to say speaking from experience that I am less than impressed and this nation is not ready for it.

My wife wanted a Ford Mustang Mach-e (don't even get me started calling this thing a Mustang) so like any good husband would do we bought it. We have the highest power charger you can get (48A) installed in our house and this thing still takes close to 8 hours to charge from 15% to 90% which was an every 7-10 day thing (270 mile range) during summer / fall but now in winter with the cold, snow & lots of wind, it's an every 4 to 5 day process. She primarily only uses it in town.

She took it to a college visit with my son a couple weeks ago which was 200 miles round trip so with a range of 270 miles it should have been plenty. The car was fully charged before she left and by the time she got to the college (100 miles away) the car was already down to 40% charge. These EVs are not designed for cold weather, Ford never thought about the effect of people running heaters or using heated seat or using heated steering wheels on battery life. Instead of listing 271 mile range, EV manufactures should have put a disclaimer like "if you don't use your heater, and don't drive in winter, and don't drive in high wind, and don't drive on roads with speed limits greater than 60 mph you may get a maximum range of 271 miles). What a joke.

Then on her way back she needed to find a charging station which in SoDak there are more than you would think but when she got to the charge station of course there were people in front of her so she had to wait a couple hours for them to finish their charge, and then when she plugged in, she needed to wait 5 hours to charge her EV just to get her to 50% charge so she could make the remaining 50 mile drive. She pulled into the garage at 15% charge.

She likes the car in general but she has admitted that it's a PITA when it comes to charging, planning out trips, worrying about whether she should use the features (heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc.) etc. Since that frustrating trip if she needs to go anywhere longer than 150 miles (especially in winter) she uses our Lincoln Navigator which we can go close to 600 miles on a tank of gas (33 gallon tank) in any type of weather.

At this point, EVs in my opinion are more of a "cool to have" verses the industry is ready for full adoption. We have a long way to go before that. The charging eco-system US-wide is no where ready, charge times are ridiculous (even a fast charge station is still 4-6 hours for a full charge), EV manufactures need to design something that can handle all environments, and vehicle costs are way to high.

I'll stick to my gas vehicles for now, I actually don't drive hers expect to move it to wash it occasionally.

Jim

[J R Jones]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim

[33fromSD]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim

Hey Jim

My wife's EV is AWD. My wife hates snow but said she's feels very comfortable with this car in the snow so I take it she hasn't felt loosey goosey in the snow as of yet, I would know right away of she did so I guess that is one positive.

Jim

[33fromSD]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim

By the way Jim, I never looked at your location info before, I was born and raised in West Bend, WI about 10 miles from Kettle Moraine. Lived there until I was 18 and then moved to SoDak. My family (Mom & Siblings) still live in and around the West Bend area.

Jim

[BradC]

That's definitely an interesting real world report for your 'should never have been called a Mustang' Mustang. Ha

Just curious, are those DC fast charge stations where it's taking hours? I don't have an EV but a couple friends with Teslas say the DC charging takes like 20-30 minutes to get you back on the road at around 80%. It does take long for the 80%+ levels.

I thought long and hard about the F150 lightning last year but just couldn't see it fitting our range needs for towing/camping/road trips, etc.. But because I do 90% around town driving I went with the hybrid F150 and it's perfect. I went from 10-11 mpg with my Ram 1500 to 18-19 around town. Highway is not bad either around 22 realistically, although I have seen it doing the rated 24 on flat with no head wind. And it'll go almost 700 miles on a tank. Hard to move away from that just yet. I agree that EV seems far from full replacement now but hopefully the momentum will deliver that next big battery tech needed to make it more feasible. We'll see..

I'm hoping this project car pans out well since I don't have any real critical expectations of it. It definitely should be fun power wise - if it can do the 140-150 range that's been estimated I'll be thrilled. If it does 100 miles that's fine too. If it does 75 it'll still be fun on the weekends around town.

[33fromSD]

That's definitely an interesting real world report for your 'should never have been called a Mustang' Mustang. Ha

Just curious, are those DC fast charge stations where it's taking hours? I don't have an EV but a couple friends with Teslas say the DC charging takes like 20-30 minutes to get you back on the road at around 80%. It does take long for the 80%+ levels.

I thought long and hard about the F150 lightning last year but just couldn't see it fitting our range needs for towing/camping/road trips, etc.. But because I do 90% around town driving I went with the hybrid F150 and it's perfect. I went from 10-11 mpg with my Ram 1500 to 18-19 around town. Highway is not bad either around 22 realistically, although I have seen it doing the rated 24 on flat with no head wind. And it'll go almost 700 miles on a tank. Hard to move away from that just yet. I agree that EV seems far from full replacement now but hopefully the momentum will deliver that next big battery tech needed to make it more feasible. We'll see..

I'm hoping this project car pans out well since I don't have any real critical expectations of it. It definitely should be fun power wise - if it can do the 140-150 range that's been estimated I'll be thrilled. If it does 100 miles that's fine too. If it does 75 it'll still be fun on the weekends around town.

Hi Brad.

The ones my wife used were not the DC fast chargers but they were the step below those but more than our home 48A charger so what ever those are. Those DC fast chargers are few and far between in the midwest yet which is another ecosystem issue.

I know a guy who has a F150 Lightning and turned a simple 45 minute trip to pick up a car into a day long adventure due to towing sucked more charge that anticipated so he had to find a station and then recharging took forever to get to the charger (several cars in front at each charger) and then the 6-8 hours it took him to get his truck charged. He was not happy when I went over the next day to help him unload the trailer.

I'm not knocking EVs, there will come a time, I get that, but a lot needs to change before they come mainstream.

Jim

[BradC]

Yep - all very real roadblocks that need to clear up before it can get universally practical. There's also the issue of the general power grid. I'm pretty sure something would blow up in my 40 year old neighborhood if everyone was charging their car at the same time. Ha.

The DC charging stations seem to be quite common around here which is probably why it seems every 3rd car on the road is a Tesla. We have that stupid 2035 mandate for all new cars to be electric so that might be why.

[J R Jones]

By the way Jim, I never looked at your location info before, I was born and raised in West Bend, WI about 10 miles from Kettle Moraine. Lived there until I was 18 and then moved to SoDak. My family (Mom & Siblings) still live in and around the West Bend area.

Jim

Jim, My family moved from MKE to Mequon in 1962, I graduated Homestead HS 1966. Youth activities were all over Ozaukee and Washington counties. The skate palace and the Filmore Fireman's picnic beer bar and dance hall were favorites. I worked in WB and Allenton several years We were considering Pizza in Barton last night.

I have a Laura Ingalls Wilder relative that taught school long ago in Grindy SD.

Yeah on EV trucks I read an unfavorable article in the last month.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/f...k-towing-test/
My 4X4 Tundra is our ultimate back up and hauler/tower of everything. Fortunately with their rural popularity, I do not get requests for borrowing the pick-up anymore.
I have
jim

[jmccabe]

Research Tesla. Have driven cross country four times in the last few years and never have to wait longer than 25 min to charge enough for my next 2 1/2 hr hop. Doing this is as easy as entering your destination and your car tells you where your next charge will be and how long you will be there.
Tesla is the only manufacturer that realized the importance of charging .
Jeff

[BradC]

Got the charging station I ordered today, and I have the charge triggering circuit all sorted out finally. Just waiting on some diodes to be delivered and then I'll have everything to finish up the wiring. It's not really complicated inherently, but getting the right info on how best to set it up was a bit of a chore. The questions the guy at Elcon cleared up for me last week were a big help, and a guy on another EV forum shared his schematic with me. Basically the J1772 (standard charging plug) has two ground signals that tell the BMS "power up, we might be charging in a second" when the connector is barely inserted, and then "yep, were definitely gonna charge now" once you let go of the plug lock trigger. That's monitored by a small unit I got from EV West called 'AVC2'. It then sends non-keyed power to the BMS when the charger connector is in place. The BMS then closes a relay that starts the charger if all cells are within programmed limits. The BMS can automatically stop the charger and turn on a warning light/buzzer if there is a problem. If no errors, the charger operates based on its own charge profile that was set up specifically for my batteries. Fairly simple now that I understand it.

I mounted and wired the Tesla water pump today too (back by the motor). I'll try it out at full power once the system is closed but it was kind of loud when I tested it. Could be that the back pressure was low and there was air in my test loop. It has PWM control lines so I routed those up to the dash in case I need to control it later.

IMG_3865.jpg

[BradC]

I have the iPad operation figured out I think for when it's mounted in the dash. I want to keep it connected to power all the time but I won't have access to the side button. There is a thing called Automations you can set up so that when power is connected it launches a specific app (among other functions). You can also add a small transparent button on the screen through Accessibility that locks the iPad - again because I won't have access to the lock button. I'm going to use the starter position on the ignition switch to open up a relay that cuts power to the iPad momentarily. When you let off the key it will restore power and trigger the iPad to wake up and launch the EV Controls app. The best I can do on shut down as of now is just hit the small button on the display to lock the screen. Better than leaving a hole in the mounting bezel to access the physical button though. This is what I have so far with the bezel design - it will be centered in the dash. I have to add the ignition switch hole and some other controls to the right still but it's a start. I'm thinking now that I want a GPS speedometer and probably 12V system voltage gauge in line with the steering wheel. Mainly because the EV app doesn't have an odometer.

Dash Bezel 1.JPG

[BradC]

Well, I attempted power up this morning. Nothing blew up which is good but I got a communication problem and couldn't pull firmware info from the inverter. I have BMS info coming to the controller though so it's not a CAN1 problem. I started digging around wiring and found a broken wire for 'CAN2 Low' at the controller connector. Hopefully that's the problem and I didn't just break it while checking. However - I can't get the bad terminal out of the main connector easy. Last time I tried to hack job it I broke the housing. No choice but to order the overpriced terminal extractor tool, so it'll be a few before I can fix it and try again. DigiKey has it in stock but I have to go to Oregon for work this coming week so realistically it'll be next weekend to fix the broken lead.

Meanwhile I should be able to test out charging, and there's lots of other things I can do of course. Will probably work on getting the brakes filled and bled.

[BradC]

Looks like I'm 0 for 2 right now. I tried charging the batteries this morning and it's not working either. It's giving a weird fault code that's not in the manual. Ugh. I contacted Elcon and they want me to bring them the charger - they think something might be wrong internally and they need to test it. Again, quite fortunate they're local to me! It would be expensive to ship. I hate it when things go like this but what can you do... such is life with project cars.

[BradC]

Got back from Oregon last night and I had a little time on the car today.

When I took the charger to Elcon Tuesday it tested out ok - weird. I put it back in today and of course it’s still having the issue. I’ve learned it thinks the batteries are full. That happens based on the voltage and/or current being pulled. It’s supposedly programmed for 382 max voltage and I’m reading 328 volts when it’s stopping itself. I sent an email back to ask about it maybe being programmed wrong. 382 — 328. Would be my luck it’s a typo in the programming. We’ll see.

No luck on the controller either. I fixed the broken wire and it’s still not working. Sent an email to EV Controls about it because I’m stumped….

[BradC]

Partial success!! EV Controls confirmed I had the Model S firmware on my controller which is why it wasn't communicating. They staged the Model 3 version this morning for me to update through the iPad, and it's communicating with the inverter now!! All the info for my motor sent over to them successfully. It's really cool - it does it automatically through my iPad connected to WiFi. They need to prepare a new inverter firmware for my motor and he said it should be ready later today. Once I flash the inverter I should be able to spin the motor!! I'll save the happy dance until I actually see it spin but it seems encouraging.

[Mastertech5]

Sounds like you have a handle on it now. I'll happy dance with you!

[BradC]

Officially happy dance time! Although you'll never see it because I hate being on video. This is a huge load off seeing it working. I had all the firmware updated and done a couple hours ago but I was still having a problem engaging drive. Turns out I had a broken ground for the positive contactor - must have done that on accident re-checking wiring the other day. Kind of an important detail, but easy to fix once I found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4t2p6smczE

[BradC]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

IMG_3888.jpg

[Geoff H]

Really exciting - congratulations on your first start!

[BradC]

Thank you!!

[BradC]

Sounds like you have a handle on it now. I'll happy dance with you!

Haha - thanks!

[Just 1 More]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

IMG_3888.jpg

I need to know more about the fenders, info please & thank upi

[jayguy]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

IMG_3888.jpg

Awesome, glad to see they really are still selling them!

and Congrats on getting the wheels turning!

[BradC]

I need to know more about the fenders, info please & thank upi

Here's the rear..

IMG_3893.jpg

http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE"

[BradC]

Awesome, glad to see they really are still selling them!

and Congrats on getting the wheels turning!

Thanks! Yep - they were great to work with and quick turnaround. Took maybe 2-3 weeks.