Tesla Powered 33 Hot Rod

[progmgr1]

I welded a few TC back in the day and wouldn't recommend them for a high reliability application. They (at least the ones I welded) were prone to the leads cracking near the weld - even if they seemed to be securely bonded to the structure.

Keith HR #894

[BradC]

I welded a few TC back in the day and wouldn't recommend them for a high reliability application. They (at least the ones I welded) were prone to the leads cracking near the weld - even if they seemed to be securely bonded to the structure.

Keith HR #894

Hey Keith - sorry, I forgot you replied on this. We weld TC beads all the time at work and I've never seen it crack. Weird... Thanks for sharing. I'll keep an eye out for that.

[BradC]

So...

There are moments in life that you always remember. Graduating college, getting married, births of children........ and the day you finish the last BMS harness. Was it worth the $400 I saved crimping them myself?? Yeah, probably but it's close. I would have still had to do all the wire patching, shrink wrap, and labeling which really is the worst part anyway.

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[33fromSD]

So...

There are moments in life that you always remember. Graduating college, getting married, births of children........ and the day you finish the last BMS harness. Was it worth the $400 I saved crimping them myself?? Yeah, probably but it's close. I would have still had to do all the wire patching, shrink wrap, and labeling which really is the worst part anyway.

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Plus you can say you did it all yourself!!

Great Job

Jim

[BradC]

Plus you can say you did it all yourself!!

Great Job

Jim

That is true.. Thanks!

[BradC]

Got the throttle pedal installed with the bracket I designed. I have to use the Tesla pedal which is bit larger, and it blocks the fuse panel area. I'll have to relocate the panel but there's plenty of room behind the dash since I won't have gauges or a blower box. I'll try to leave space for a blower though just in case I decide I want a heater later on. Seems like seat heaters alone will do the trick - plus this will always be a fair weather car anyway. Decision for a later day...

This bracket gives me tons of adjustment on the pedal and it seems like it will hold position just with the bolts tightened down. If it turns out to be a problem I'll use it to set the position I like and then make another fixed bracket for that position. Or maybe just a stop on the floor. Also something to decide later.

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For those of you with completed cars - does the brake pedal feel too high while driving? It just looks high but without everything installed it's hard to be sure.

[FF33rod]

No, the brake pedal height isn't bad - it can be adjusted a bit with the threaded rod to the masters

Steve

[BradC]

No, the brake pedal height isn't bad - it can be adjusted a bit with the threaded rod to the masters

Steve

Thanks - I meant the distance from floor to pedal vs. pedal stop position. Length of the pedal arm...

[FF33rod]

Ahhh, gotcha. That's still a no I don't have long feet, size 9 and that aspect is fairly comfortable. If you find them a bit high, you can always add some padding to the floor to raise your heel. Come to think of it, between Lizard Skin, FFR thermal & sound package, carpet, and floor mat I guess I have a fair bit of padding compared to the bare floor....

Steve

[BradC]

Cool. Thanks for confirming. I figured it was likely fine but just looked funny as it sits with no floor.

[BradC]

I mocked up most of the HV lines last night. I ran short on cable for the last line from battery to negative contactor so I need to order one more ~7-8 foot length.

The extra slack in the lines is for service once everything is energized. I designed it so I can drop the fuse holders down and away from the chassis to safely disconnect power and isolate the hot end of the cables. Then the boxes can be removed. The front box has a cut off switch that will disconnect the positive line. The zip ties are just temporary - I'll make some nicer bolt in plastic clamps later.

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This is all the waste I ended up with. Not too bad!!

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[BradC]

I have the front battery box all apart and almost all the panels media blasted for Cerakote. Plan is to shoot them Saturday along with the custom axles. I'll be able to reassemble the CVs and start the full assembly of the main battery box after they cure.

I've been trying to decide where to put the 12V battery. I wanted it hidden but easily accessible. The contactor box area was my first thinking (although not super easy access) but it ended up too full once I worked out the HV cable locations. After staring at the car for a while, I decided on in between the seats in the area shown below. It will still allow for good storage in a center console and will be easy to access from below the car. I need to finalize the design a bit and work out a clamp to hold the battery in place, and then I'll have the parts made.

12V Battery 2.JPG 12V Battery 1.JPG 12V Battery 3.JPG

The battery I got is for a motorcycle. It doesn't need to be a typical full size because there's no starter. The power steering motor and probably seat heaters will be the biggest draw. Everything else is minor and the DC/DC converter can easily keep up with everything on at the same time.

I looked around a little for a center console I could just buy but I'm not finding anything I like. So I'll just design and build my own. That's better anyway since I can make it exactly how I want it.

Looks like the fuse panel will fit on the opposite side of the dash. The bracket that comes with the kit is meant for the other side where it won't fit now and is really flimsy, so I'm making a new one from 1/8" aluminum.

Fuse Panel Location.JPG

[J R Jones]

Soichiro Honda, founder of Honda Motor Company, was allegedly the first to coin the phrase: “Racing improves the breed” Works for horses.
Maybe NASCAR EV racing will influence electric cars; this from Hemmings this AM:
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/ele...k-car-to-sema/

jim

[BradC]

Thanks for sharing that. I'm definitely enjoying watching the evolution of EV into the racing and hot rod worlds. I can see NASCAR being a hold out though longer than others like Formula. There's just something about engine sounds with racing that will be hard for electric to compete with. I've watched Formula E a few times but the coverage is kind of dull compared to what I'm used to with F1.

[BradC]

I got the new fuse panel bracket installed. It's pretty much the same as the one FFR provides adapted for the other side of the dash, but the thicker material is much better than the one you get with the kit. I'm in the process of mounting all the key components so I can get wiring located correctly. I'll be taking the stock harness apart eventually and thinning out the stuff I don't need, but not until everything is working and I'm certain of what all can go.

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Tomorrow is Cerakote day for the front battery box and the rear axles. Lots of parts to do. Crossing my fingers they come out good!

Since I'm getting closer to dealing with some serious voltages I needed to get some safer tools. Found these that are rated for 1000V isolation for working on the battery boxes and fuse junctions. They have isolated socket extensions too that I might get but not sure yet if I'll need them. I'm still looking around for what gloves I need too - but the most effective tool I think is going to be just trying not to do anything stupid! haha

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[Papa]

I got the new fuse panel bracket installed. It's pretty much the same as the one FFR provides adapted for the other side of the dash, but the thicker material is much better than the one you get with the kit. I'm in the process of mounting all the key components so I can get wiring located correctly. I'll be taking the stock harness apart eventually and thinning out the stuff I don't need, but not until everything is working and I'm certain of what all can go.

IMG_3647.jpg

Tomorrow is Cerakote day for the front battery box and the rear axles. Lots of parts to do. Crossing my fingers they come out good!

Since I'm getting closer to dealing with some serious voltages I needed to get some safer tools. Found these that are rated for 1000V isolation for working on the battery boxes and fuse junctions. They have isolated socket extensions too that I might get but not sure yet if I'll need them. I'm still looking around for what gloves I need too - but the most effective tool I think is going to be just trying not to do anything stupid! haha

IMG_3649.jpg

These are what my electrician uses.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3991-10-H...NrPXRydWU&th=1

[BradC]

Cool - thank you!!

[BradC]

Well, Cerakote day was a mixed bag. All the smaller parts are perfect but the larger panels ended up with a subtle stripe pattern in the direction of spray. You can't see it at all in the sun but inside it shows - weird. After some researching we think it was a combination of air pressure (too high) and time between coats (too short). Oh well.. I'll go ahead and build up the battery box as is and then once it's in the car I'll pull the top and side panels off and redo the coating. They aren't structural.

I wanted to get the seats mounted before the wired up lower battery boxes go back in so I've been working on that. I don't think I've ever spent so much time trying to locate four freakin' holes but the driver side seat is in. Now I can use that as a template for the passenger side, so it should go faster. I had to locate the rails on the seats correctly so that I can access the mounting bolts from the top, then align the rails to the chassis so that the travel and side to side position is correct and comfortable. I have about five inches of travel so there's plenty of range for me and my wife who's much shorter.

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[TxMike64]

I saw this in my feed and thought it might be of interest. KC Tool has a sale on insulated tools: https://www.kctool.com/seasonal/?rfsn=5802283.d413ea5

[BradC]

I saw this in my feed and thought it might be of interest. KC Tool has a sale on insulated tools: https://www.kctool.com/seasonal/?rfsn=5802283.d413ea5

Thank you!

[BradC]

Passenger seat all installed. It was much easier than the first one as expected. On to loading packs in the battery boxes this weekend!

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[Mastertech5]

Go for it! Then more connections to make? I follow your build every day with great interest. I wish I had the room to store everything in a complete kit so I could have got it all at once. There are things I feel should be in the Stage 1 kit that aren't and visa versa. I wished they had designed the grill to attach to the radiator after it was installed rather than needing the grill to install the radiator. No exhaust and no steering wheel. Basic things you could go kart with. I have lots of moving blankets to use as a seat. I'd gladly pay a little more for the 1st stage and less for Stage 2. Lucked out with a bike fender kit though, thanks!

[BradC]

Thanks! Yeah, just a 'few' more connections to make... This wad is just BMS and temp sensors.

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That's surprising that the stage 1 kit isn't enough to go kart it. That would seem like something obvious to me, but I guess not. Sorry to hear. Like you said though, at least you have fenders - in a giant custom box! Haha

[BradC]

Started assembling the first lower battery box. Installed the BMS leads and the first bus bar without letting any sparks out of the batteries.

I had looked into having the lower box panels coated in bed liner, but they wanted too much for it. Looked into doing it myself but it was still over $100, and I really didn't want to mess with epoxy primer and coating. Plus, that's a pretty final decision and difficult to remove if I changed my mind later. I found this new vinyl coating that's meant to be like bed liner. It's 35 mil thick and looks great. Only $50 for enough to do both boxes and the 12V battery plate.

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Center bus bar block
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Box as it sits so far. I need to join and test the BMS connections and make brackets to lock the packs in place laterally. Then I might make bus bar covers to help prevent accidental contact. Then I can put the cover on and move on to the next box. This feels like progress!

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[BradC]

I've admittedly gotten a bit lazy lately with ordering parts from SCS but it's usually cheaper than buying raw material retail and machining myself. I could rummage through scrap tables and do better but then you don't always know what you're getting - then there's the time. These little spacers I need for the main battery pack ended up being something they couldn't make in plastic with their standard tooling so I had to do them. HDPE is one of the materials that is much cheaper to buy and it was good to fire up the cnc. All done!

BB Spacers.JPG IMG_3678.jpg IMG_3682.jpg

The first lower battery box is almost done. I'm just waiting on some knurled carriage bolts to help make it safer to attach the HV lines. The BMS wiring tested out good and I'm clear now on how the rest is wired.

[BradC]

Got the 12V battery plate today. It all fit up perfect. I'll do the vinyl covering on it to match the battery boxes and get everything installed once I get some washers I ordered that will help keep the vinyl from twisting up as I tighten down the bolts.

The plastic clamps for the battery are 3D printed with embedded carbon fiber for extra strength. That battery isn't going anywhere.

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[cc2Arider]

Nice work! I've enjoyed your build thread...You are really blazing a trail here

Craig C

[Mastertech5]

Ditto! That means same here for the younger crowd that never experienced mimeographs- copies before copiers.

[BradC]

Thank you guys!

And for the record, I definitely remember ditto copies at school...

[BradC]

The first lower battery box is all done and installed up in the car. Started on the main box today and got a fair amount done on it. Still lots to do with it of course (wiring and more wiring) but it's good to confirm that the packs all fit well.

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I need to order all the bus bars for the main pack tomorrow. I keep putting it off...

[33fromSD]

Looks great Brad, nice progress. Now that we have an EV ourselves (My wife's 2022 Mustang Mach-e....err, I hate that name but that is another discussion for a different day) I've been following this thread to get an idea of how all the boys & pieces come together. you're build page is great for showing the details, its the stuff you never see on a completed car.

Curious, how much do the various completed battery packs weigh?

Keep up the great work!

Thanks,

Jim

[BradC]

Thanks Jim. Figuring out how everything works on an EV and how to make it fit the 33 has been the fun challenge with this. I knew absolutely nothing about it when I first started thinking about doing this project a year ago. The info is out there but you definitely need to dig for it.

I agree on that - Ford messed it up using the Mustang name. Seems like a cool car that can stand on its own merits, so why tag it with the Mustang name and piss off a big chunk of customers? Oh well...

I haven't weighed it myself but the CAD model says the lower packs are 105lb each and the main one is 420lb. It does seem about right having lifted up the lower pack now.

[33fromSD]

Thanks Brad

[BradC]

All packs are in the front box with temperature sensors in place. Everything fits. The bus bars are pretty expensive so I wanted to make sure the most complicated of them fit before I placed the order. Had this material laying around as scrap so I machined a test part. Shockingly it fit dead on without having to widen the mount holes - which is something I don't want to do because it reduces the contact surface area to the battery posts. I'm actually pretty surprised it lined up so well when you factor in stack up tolerances across three rows and columns of packs. I went ahead and placed the order for the front bus bars.

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We'll try the Cerakote again tomorrow with reduced air pressure and application process changes for the top and side panels of the box. Hope it works better this time. That stuff was kind of a chore to media blast off back down to bare metal.

[Papa]

... I'm actually pretty surprised it lined up so well when you factor in stack up tolerances across three rows and columns of packs.

Skill, not luck!

[BradC]

Ha. Hey, if it fits I’ll take either one!

[33fromSD]

All packs are in the front box with temperature sensors in place. Everything fits. The bus bars are pretty expensive so I wanted to make sure the most complicated of them fit before I placed the order. Had this material laying around as scrap so I machined a test part. Shockingly it fit dead on without having to widen the mount holes - which is something I don't want to do because it reduces the contact surface area to the battery posts. I'm actually pretty surprised it lined up so well when you factor in stack up tolerances across three rows and columns of packs. I went ahead and placed the order for the front bus bars.

IMG_3699.jpg IMG_3698.jpg

We'll try the Cerakote again tomorrow with reduced air pressure and application process changes for the top and side panels of the box. Hope it works better this time. That stuff was kind of a chore to media blast off back down to bare metal.

Nice work Brad. Looks great!

Maybe I missed it, but what are your plans for a cooling fan on the battery pack assembly? I ask because on my wife's EV the first time we charged it I heard a fan running which I thought was odd, and the higher the completed charge rate the faster the fan ran. When I called our local Ford dealer they noted this is all normal and the fan I'm hearing is a cooling fan in the battery pack to help prevent the batteries from over heating during charging.

Thanks,

Jim

[BradC]

Thank you..

I don't have any active cooling for the batteries. The boxes are vented so there will be some airflow while moving but it's actually not needed for this setup. EV West encloses these packs in sealed boxes for the conversions they do, mianly for protection against water for daily drivers. This will be purely a fairweather car so I'm not worried about that.

Production EVs have active battery cooling and warming (usually liquid) for a few reasons. They need to design to a much broader range of operating environments, worst case usage levels and drivers, and DC fast charging. I can control usage and I'm not setting this up for DC fast charging yet, just 220 AC. That inherently avoids excessive heat for the packs during charging. The BMS will also be monitoring temperatures and cell balance, and can start and stop charging as needed. Same goes for heavy throttle usage. If the temperatures start getting high in any area I can set the BMS to throw a warning and/or scale back on the allowed power draw. That should only come up with prolonged high draw like if I took it to a track though - which I don't plan to do.

Later on when the DIY capability gets a bit more mature I may change it over to be DC fast charge capable. It woud be a nice feature but not really necessary for a non daily driver.

[33fromSD]

Thank you..

I don't have any active cooling for the batteries. The boxes are vented so there will be some airflow while moving but it's actually not needed for this setup. EV West encloses these packs in sealed boxes for the conversions they do, mianly for protection against water for daily drivers. This will be purely a fairweather car so I'm not worried about that.

Production EVs have active battery cooling and warming (usually liquid) for a few reasons. They need to design to a much broader range of operating environments, worst case usage levels and drivers, and DC fast charging. I can control usage and I'm not setting this up for DC fast charging yet, just 220 AC. That inherently avoids excessive heat for the packs during charging. The BMS will also be monitoring temperatures and cell balance, and can start and stop charging as needed. Same goes for heavy throttle usage. If the temperatures start getting high in any area I can set the BMS to throw a warning and/or scale back on the allowed power draw. That should only come up with prolonged high draw like if I took it to a track though - which I don't plan to do.

Later on when the DIY capability gets a bit more mature I may change it over to be DC fast charge capable. It woud be a nice feature but not really necessary for a non daily driver.

Got it, Thanks for clarifying.

Jim

[BradC]

Back to BMS wiring hell...

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It'll all be bundled up when done but right now it doesn't look so good. I have 5 of the 13 series groups done and then there are all the thermocuple leads to do. That's enough for today - I need a break.