IV_Joe's MK4 427 Roadster Build

[IV_Joe]

Greetings All,
I suppose it’s time to announce my existence. I’ve been a “car guy” for as long as I can remember. In my youth I vividly recall drooling over my grandfather’s 1973 Triumph Stag, my first employer’s all original 1969 Z28 RS, and the GT40 poster on my bedroom wall. I call Central North Carolina my home and am a Machinist by trade although I’ve done more work in the CAD/CAM arena than actually cutting metal over the last decade. My first job in High School was as a mechanic in a small local shop. I have always done all of the service/repair work to my own vehicles and am comfortable with what I consider Basic Mechanic-ing. I’ve been reading build threads and checking in with this forum ever since I discovered it about four years ago. During that time I’ve been saving up to do this in a somewhat financially responsible way as I am not a particularly wealthy person. I am committed to the fact that this is purely a recreational endeavor and I will not acquire any debt in the process. While it may seem counter-intuitive I will not be cutting corners on account of funds. I have no budget. If it takes 2-3 years or longer for this to be “graduated” so be it. That being said, I ordered a complete MK4 kit several weeks ago. I was still a couple grand short of my savings goal, however due to the lead times with FFR I will be well beyond that threshold by the time the kit is completed. My completion date is October 23rd. Details of my build are below and I’ll expand on some of the decisions that were and perhaps still are difficult for me.

MK4 Complete Kit
Powder coated chassis
Big Block mounts
TKX Transmission
390/427/428 Headers
Hyd. Clutch Master cyl.
Holly EFI
IRS
Body cutouts
Leather seats
Power steering
Vintage gauges
17x9/10.5 Halibrand Replica Wheels
Wind Wings
Wipers (state requirement)
Brake duct mesh
Vinyl dash with glovebox
Chrome rollbar (DS only)
Assembled Louver set
2018 IRS center section & spindles
12.88 Willwoods red front and rear
Several Popular Mods including but not limited to: Drop Trunk, turn signal, etc.

I suppose that’s enough to be getting on with. You may notice I’m missing an engine. Well that’s been a super difficult decision for me. The first car I bought with my own money was a 96’ Mustang Cobra. I loved the engine in that thing. It was a small yet very excitable 4.6L that was tons of fun to drive and initially decided on something similar. Not for the last time, I changed my mind after reading up on the Coyote in several build threads. It seemed a logical, well proven, and more powerful “next generation” option from my beloved 4.6L. And that is what it was going to be for a long time. However, several months ago my uncle who happens to be a 35 year veteran in building racing engines, primarily Porsche, talked me out of it in favor of something more… well more. His suggestion was a rebuilt Ford FE 390. In theory bored and stroked to somewhere in the 427 neighborhood. Getting relatively close to the original OEM FE 427. Re-machined and rebuilt by yours truly, with experienced supervision. The engine build goal of 450-500 HP/Torque with the reliability of EFI and modern engine components. I must say this going forward. I believe the most important thing to know is what you don’t know. I do not know how to build an engine. Fortunately, my uncle does and has offered his assistance. In my opinion this falls in line very well with the FFR mantra of “Built not Bought”. An original FE family engine block with entirely modern components seems to be a fitting nod to the origins of the Roadster. So the only component of this car bought already assembled will be the TKX Transmission. There is wizardry involved in gear boxes that I am perfectly content to not fully understand. Words cannot express my anticipation and excitement about this adventure. At this point there really is not anything for me to do but wait. I’ve designated space in my small garage, built a chassis dolly/body buck, and made arrangements with Stewart Transportation. I’ll try and upload some photos of my workspace for review. Very interested in everyone’s opinion.

[ggunter]

Welcome Joe, let the adventure begin. The first thing you will find on this forum is there is a lot of talent and people that have mostly very good ideas they have formed through the experience of building an FFR Cobra. Since you have some time, look at a lot of build threads and see how guys have done this or that. I found a whole lot of useful ideas and tips. My car only took seven weeks to get from the time I ordered it last June and I picked it up August 20,2020. It is in the paint stage now and hopefully I be in the final fit and assy by first week of July. Look at some of the vendors on this forum and their products to make furthur improvements on your car. Breeze automotive has a bunch of upgrades and well made components, FF Metals has the thicker trans tunnels and firewalls with a firewall forward option. An option I wish I would have taken. My build is very similar to yours except for the engine package, The one I got was the 347 Blueprint engine and trans package. Good luck and post a bunch of photos.

[jeremustang]

Joe,

Great idea going with the FE! You'll hit 450-500 HP easily, and it will run and idle great. I'm also building an FE motor currently, but haven't bought the kit yet. Buying a stoker kit for a 390 block would be the best way to go. Scat makes stroker kits that come complete with crankshaft, rods, pistons, rings, and bearings. They're even balanced and are a great deal. I ordered my stroker kit from my machine shop while they were boring the block, and assembled it at home. If you bore the block .030" over and get a 4.125" stroke crank, you'll end up with 431 cubic inches, which is pretty close to the 427 displacement you're looking for. Here's one at Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-1-94644bi

[BradCraig]

Welcome to the fold...where in NC are you?

[IV_Joe]

Gunter: Thank you for the advice. I'm sure i'll probably make purchases form all the forum vendors before this is all said and done.

Jeremy: A scat rotating assembly is absolutely on my engine build list. Not sure exactly which one yet. Forged vs. cast crank, H-beam vs. I-beam rods, etc. nice to have so many options for sure. Still got some work on the block to do until i get there.

Brad: Greensboro area

[Blitzboy54]

Welcome,

I spent 4 years in the Jacksonville area. I miss the beaches. I look forward to following along your build. I am in mid build myself and cannot over state how much fun I am having. I like you, had to save and budget although truth be told I have stopped keeping receipts and have simply resigned myself to spending whatever it takes. I am envious of folks with the kind of patience you describe. I am far too anxious to drive it to slow my build down.

[CobraboyDR]

You'd be surprised how budget-friendly a 390FE stroked to 445 can be, complete with aluminum heads, intake, and water pump. 500 hrsprs & trqs is easy.

Some builders will even machine in fake cross bolts, so only the geekiest of FE geeks can tell it's not a side-oiler.

[zarnold]

This is cool! Do your already have the block or are you planning getting one of the newly manufactured FE's?

[IV_Joe]

Unfortunately no, I do not have a block yet. It’s been my experience that these blocks are still fairly common. Ford made tons of them back in the day. The first one I looked at failed magnaflux for cracks around the lifter bores. Looking at two more this weekend. Not entirely opposed to a new one but I’m considering that a back up plan for now. Due to my completion date I’ve got plenty of time to hunt. Pretty fond of the idea of the “heart” of this build being a little piece of history.

[Railroad]

I was thinking I read F5 was dropping the FE motor mount frame in the MkIV. I hope I am wrong, as I like these engines.
On the 12.88" Wilwood rotors, you might consider not getting the 6 piston calipers. There are NO street brake pads available for these calipers. You can get by with pads from Hawk, DTC-30s.
If you do any spirited driving the Hawks should be fine.
The DP-10s shipped with the Wilwoods require some leg, but they will lock up all 4 tires.

[IV_Joe]

Railroad. Thanks for the tips. I spoke with F5 shortly after I ordered the kit. Hopefully he would have mentioned a problem with the mounts. He did confirm the engine type with me over the phone to make sure I wasn’t using a 351/427. First I’ve heard on the wilwood setup issue. I was planning on power brakes using the Whitby booster kit. Luckily whitby is local for me so I will drop by and see what they have to say on the pads. But it sounds like I should start out with the DTC-30’s regardless. Thank you for sharing your expertise!

[rich grsc]

DO NOT use a power booster with Wilwood brakes, you won't be able to modulate the braking.

[Railroad]

Railroad. Thanks for the tips. I spoke with F5 shortly after I ordered the kit. Hopefully he would have mentioned a problem with the mounts. He did confirm the engine type with me over the phone to make sure I wasn’t using a 351/427. First I’ve heard on the wilwood setup issue. I was planning on power brakes using the Whitby booster kit. Luckily whitby is local for me so I will drop by and see what they have to say on the pads. But it sounds like I should start out with the DTC-30’s regardless. Thank you for sharing your expertise!

My Wilwood 6 and 4 pistons are manual. Should have added that to my post.

[zarnold]

Unfortunately no, I do not have a block yet. It’s been my experience that these blocks are still fairly common. Ford made tons of them back in the day. The first one I looked at failed magnaflux for cracks around the lifter bores. Looking at two more this weekend. Not entirely opposed to a new one but I’m considering that a back up plan for now. Due to my completion date I’ve got plenty of time to hunt. Pretty fond of the idea of the “heart” of this build being a little piece of history.

Any luck with the engine hunt over the weekend?

[IV_Joe]

Yes and No. Of the two I went to look at this weekend one had apparently been rebuilt in the past and bored .050-.060 over. Not ideal there. And the other one wasn't a 390 it was a 360 truck motor. I talked with the guy for a bit and clarified what I'm looking for. He was able to provide some new leads. So not a complete failure but definitely not what I was hoping for.

[IV_Joe]

Greetings,
I have not posted in a while for various reasons. My completion date is only a week a way and I'm really chomping at the bit to get started. I did change engines one last time and had my kit order reconfigured accordingly. It will be a dart 427 similar to what you would get from Blueprint, but built by a local engine builder I've come to know. Garage is all set and I'm pretty sure I've got most of the tools I'll need for the first couple months. Really posting for two main reasons though. First, If I still want to do a build thread should I start a new thread rather than edit all this? Should I delete this one? Can I delete this one? And Second I have seen through other build threads how useful the "phone a friend" tool can be. Are there any builds going on in North Carolina now or soon? Any completed cars owned by folks who wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction should the need arise?

[JeffP]

I'm near the OBX but will be a bit behind you - my completion date isn't until 2/26/22. I'm using Coyote Gen3/TKX in my build. Also ordered a top from 427hardtops which will probably get here before the kit. I'm not the most patient person and have plenty of time to work on the car so I expect mine to go on the faster side assuming parts availability. I also plan on doing all my own body work.