windshield, fender, hood then maybe the doors

[CNC_Geek]

This seems to be a recurring theme. I know which direction each piece needs to move but each is contrary to the needs of the other.2Driver side hood.jpg2Driver side.jpg2pas hood meets suround.jpg2Pass fender meets pod.jpg

Can someone supply photos of how these 3 body parts are supposed to come together? Suggestions are very welcomed.
Hood fender support.jpg

Something I just thought of. Maybe I'm trying to place this support in the wrong location under the fender?

[07FIREBLADE]

This is a older picture before I decided what I needed to do to get the front gap fixed. You need to trim the return flange in the fender to be able to suck it in a bit. I would also bolt your front end together so it's fixed as a single piece but leave it unbolted from the chassis so you can bring both sides in symmetrically at the same time. Currently not at home but I will post some better pics later.

[07FIREBLADE]

I would also bolt the bottoms of the fenders to the side sails first before trying to get the gaps worked out. This is one of the fixed locations that can't change.

[insurance guy]

IMG_0364.JPGIMG_0365.JPGIMG_0366.JPGIMG_0367.JPGI seem to be at a similar point. I just finished installing the doors and making sure the gaps were there and the door can open without hitting the fender. I originally lined up the fender at the base of the side piece. there looks like an outline of the bottom part. That seems to be the place to use. My fender rests over the part you shoe and I am probably going to put a shim or two under the fender at that point to raise it up. My hood is giving me issues as the car does not seem to be symmetrical. I have one side further out than the other. I took my time trying to align left and right. My passenger side fender sits about 1/2 inch further back than driver side and the passenger side is further out ( width ) than drivers side. I am not going to try to move or stress the fiberglass and will try to fix the issues when I finish and begin body work. I will sand the bottom of the hood and then see how it aligns. All the pics and threads I look at show similar issues with all the builds. I am hoping someone can show a good way to meet top of hood, windshield and fender.

[CNC_Geek]

I hadn't thought of trying to install the fender at the side sail first. I agree this is a Must fit location. Perhaps I'll try starting there then try to fit the front bumper lights assembly. I was using the fender to bumper location as a "Must Fit". I assembled the bumper, lights, fenders as an assembly then mounted it onto the front end. I have cut a relief into the bumper to fit around the steel frame work at the radiator.

[CNC_Geek]

This is what I was missing. A photo like this should be in the build manual.
On a side note - I use the "insert image" button to load my images into the posting. The result is a link not a photo. What are you doing different?

[insurance guy]

Not sure
I hit insert image and find file on my computer and upload
I used to be able to add all my files and upload all, but now it's one at a time
Slow

[STiPWRD]

This is what I was missing. A photo like this should be in the build manual.
On a side note - I use the "insert image" button to load my images into the posting. The result is a link not a photo. What are you doing different?

If the photo file is too big, it will show a link instead of a thumbnail. Try saving as a jpeg.

[RM1SepEx]

I set an old camera to 1024 x 768 and it works very well.

[RM1SepEx]

I just setup an old camera for forum and facebook posts to 1028 x 768 resolution, works slick, fast uploads, good detail.

P1120969.JPG P1120970.JPG P1120971.JPG P1120972.JPG P1120973.JPG P1120974.JPG

it's a big 3D puzzle, you fix the side sales as described then pull them together and back to get roll bar clearance. You can only pull it back so far before the latch brackets won't fit. You are fixed at the bottom of the front fenders to the side sail panels. You need to add a piece of angle under the radiator support under the front. The windshield needs to be adjusted measuring back to the rear door opening. It's been detailed in a bunch of build threads. I recommend reading threads with beer and finding areas of good hints and bookmarking them. There are so many ideas already out there.

Bottom line, the body is NOT exactly symmetrical, you have to teak, adjust, twist, use heat and gravity to help get everything to line up. The panels twist out of shape just sitting while you build it, I'm not sure that there is any way to stop that from happening beyond hanging them with wires from small holes in the hidden returns.

[CNC_Geek]

I discovered - With both sides of the windshield moved to the rear of their slots, the passenger side is 5/8" farther forward than the driver side. I guess I'll be extending the slots to even up the mounting location. moving the driver side forward will cause the hood to climb up the windshield frame.

[Frank818]

The panels twist out of shape just sitting while you build it, I'm not sure that there is any way to stop that from happening beyond hanging them with wires from small holes in the hidden returns.

They might change shape by gravity using the wires anyway.

[RM1SepEx]

They might change shape by gravity using the wires anyway.

yup... true dat

my latest work with gravity on the hood

P1120975.JPG P1120976.JPG

And my console is almost ready to upholster, there will be a 4"W x 4"D x 6" L storage box under the armrest

P1120977.JPG

[Frank818]

Looks like cement inside go kart tires? How odd but smart!

[wleehendrick]

I have not mounted my body panels yet, but have prepped many and coated the backside with 3M rubberized undercoat. Here's something that may help bend the panels back into shape if they've deformed in storage... I left one out back on a sunny day and noticed how much more flexible it was after the black surface soaked up the CA sun all day. So, you might try heat soaking it similarly, or with lamps, then mounting in position and weighting it down; as it cools, it will hopefully retain the desired shape.

[Frank818]

Does this mean when we drive the car on a hot (sunny) day the panels will deform? I won't have white.

[flynntuna]

Say it isn't so!

[Frank818]

LOL! What the F is that?

[RM1SepEx]

Looks like cement inside go kart tires? How odd but smart!

weights for holding down my easy ups, we burn up these super sticky MG greens on the shifter kart, easy to handle and store these weights.

W Lee you are correct heat helps a bunch too, they do get more flexible. The Cobra guys use a buck to keep that stiff, thick body in the correct shape, not so easy to do with our individual panels

[CU9DZ]

I'm having lots of trouble with the whole windshield/door/fender/hood area. How do I know if the windshield is straight to the frame? How do I know if the whole front bumper is straight to the frame? Every body panel and the windshield are curved therefore no exact spot to take a measurement from. If the back pointy ends of the hood are not even to the windshield then the windshield could be off or the front bumper could be off to left or right or one side of front bumper is back more than the other. Frustrating. Would really like to be driving this kit not taking it apart and refitting constantly.
Dave

[Hindsight]

Hey Dave. I'll offer my thoughts. Others may have a different opinion.

The windshield doesn't HAVE to be perfectly straight to the frame. By that I mean that there is really no reference point and even the manual suggests you can raise, lower, and adjust the rearward rake to suit your needs. The only mention of a defined, measured windshield position, if I recall, is if you are using the soft top. So if you aren't, you adjust the windshield for HEIGHT based on what will clear the door, and the rake based on your preference.

The fenders don't have much adjustment. They set in one specific spot on the side sails based on the body line molded into the sails. The width of the fenders is set by the front bumper and especially by the hood. With the hood in place and pulled down so the front of the hood is flush with the front of the bumper (especially important since even a 1/4" front to rear adjustment of the hood will have a major impact in the width of the fenders), the fenders will be at their set width. You can then lock this in by drilling a hole through the fender flange into the rear upper fender mount tab on the frame. That's tough to do because you can't do it with the hood in place and if you move the hood, you move the fender too. You can try to drill up from the bottom instead. I think what I did was to drill a 1/8" hole in the frame about where it looked like it should be, then remove the bit from the drill and insert it into the hole so it would be sticking up far enough to make contact with the fender. I then coated the top of the bit with white-out and carefully set the fender and hood down into place, then lifted back off and drilled a 1/8" hole on the white-out marking. Then I stuck the 1/8" drill bit through both of them to act as kind of a cleco in order to double check that everything was in the right spot with the hood on and measuring the fenders to the balljoints. Once this was good, I opened up the holes to 1/4" and bolted in place. There is one rear fender adjustment you can make though and that is to add some spacer shims between the fender and the upper rear perch. I added a couple washers there. Before doing this, a visual check should show that the rear tips of the hoods are about even on each side with the windshield frame. A difference of up to 1/4" really isn't very noticeable in my opinion.

On the front bumper, it depends on how square your radiator support is. I measured mine and unlike some other earlier kits (I have kit 225 I think), mine is square. After bolting the fenders to the bumper, and having the lower rear of the fenders bolted to the side sail, and with the hood in place, the bumper centered itself pretty well for me. To check it, I measured from the fender lip inward to the upper ball joint on each side. With everything bolted together as mentioned above, you can shift the bumper side to side a little bit to fine-tune it. Once you have it, drill the holes in the frame perch for the bumper, into the bumper, and put a bolt through it. I feel the important thing is centering the body to the wheels. Beyond that, who cares if the radiator frame is a bit off-center? It's not something you see or that will impact anything. So just focus on centering it to the wheels via the balljoint.

Next you need to secure the lower front bumper to the lower front frame. Most people, myself included, end up with the bumper being too far forward of the frame to bolt up into it so you have to add a piece of aluminum angle bracket that hangs down then forward. Shave off a little bit of the bracket on the sides to match the curved contour of the bumper.

The order I followed was:
Side sail positioning
Attach bumper to fenders (so that the wheel arch and body lines are aligned)
Sit bumper + fenders on car via the perch
Attach lower rear of fenders to side sail in fixed position
Add hood
Verify rear hood tips are roughly centered to the windshield frame
Drill holes in rear upper fender perch and bolt in place (with washers as needed)
Center front bumper using wheel arch to balljoint measurement a guide
Drill holes for front bumper through upper perch and bolt in
Drill holes to mount fender to the bumper near the headlight (the hood covers these bolts) and bolt in place
Cut and attach L-bracket to lower front radiator frame
Double check wheel arch center, adjusting bumper as needed then attach L-bracket to bumper.
Now start the headlight and headlight buckets. I did some of this on the car, and some of it off the car. Still working on them actually.....

Hope that helps. It is frustrating I know. Lots of putting things on then taking them off.

[CNC_Geek]

So here is what I finally did to assemble the front.
I started by assembling the front bumper, lights, and fenders on the ground. This got the lights located well enough to get started and gave me an idea where the fender meets the bumper near the headlight. I drilled and bolted the fender where it meets the bumper at the wheel well. I figured this was a "must align correctly" location with no room much adjustment.
Trying to mount this assembly onto the car was the trouble I was having. I could not push this assembly back far enough to meet with the sidesails.
Per someone's suggestion I mounted the fenders onto the side sail (another "must align correctly" location) first. From this point I loosely bolted on the the bumper at the wheel well while supporting the bumper assembly at about 6" off the ground. At this point everything is negotiable. I'm using several small C clamps to hold parts in temporary alignment.
Next, I worked on aligning the lights and getting the front nose of the fender to flow with the lines of the bumper. Once this is done I installed the metal brackets which include the forward hood pins. Again using C clamps. Clamp the fender first, then see where the lower mounting holes fall on the bumper. Once this is established it was time to get the hood involved. I set the width of the fenders to match the hood - move the windshield to allow room for the tips of the hood - I found myself shimming up the fender at the sidesail but mostly at the rear fender mount near the windshield. My goal was to get the hood and fender close to a position where the lines flowed together and the windshield was not getting in the way.
I originally wanted the windshield forward and up (for street use) but ended up mounting it as far back as it would go and low. So everything is a compromise. As I got closer to finding that correct position where everything came together I would drill and tap for a #6-32 screw to lock down each part. This left me with some wiggle room when it came time to permanently secure each location. If needed to move the location a small amount I could shift the hole location while drilling out to the final size.
I got the hood to sit square on the fenders but the top rear of each fender is shifted to the left about 3/8". Maybe I could have tweaked the front bumper some to correct for this but at this point I hat too many locations permanently secured and this small amount is not all that visible. The hood still required some grinding to match the height of the hood in relation to the top of fender. Also, the tips needed a tiny bit more clearance. Looking at Daves factory built 818 coupe. His hood has no return along the edge where it meets the windshield. I was able to keep mine which adds rigidity. I just thinned out the tips to clear the windshield.
Each car reflects the personal image of the builder. I am fine with the post and pin for securing the top covers but the front two on the hood was 2 too many. I am installing a hood hinge for the front and relocating the pin locations at the top near the windshield. After all the moving and adjusting my factory hood pin locations are no longer symmetrical. I'll post photos of this later. My other thought here is attending shows. It would be safer to have the hood attached to the car rather than taking it off and trying to keep it undamaged by wind or spectators.
CAUTION! After successfully driving this car in go cart mode I got comfortable with the ground clearance issue. This will significantly change with the front bumper assembly installed. Recheck your driveway entrance before your first test drive with the new body panels installed. Consider yourself warned.

[CU9DZ]

Thanks Hindsight. While I had the fenders off I checked the bottom front edge of the windshield frame where it bolts to the car frame. Both sides were very close WindSh2frame.JPG Tried to attach image here.
I already had the headlights in the bumper assembly so I unbolted the assembly from the radiator assembly. Then reattached the fenders and test fit the hood. I put some tape from the hood to the bumpers while everything looked close. then just slit the tape and took the hood back off. Then every time I refit the hood on I just lined up the tape.
I did put some spacers on the bracket that holds the top rear edge of the fenders near the windshield. Also used your trick to mark the underside of the fender lip where it bolts to that bracket. I used some nail polish on a piece of bent wire. (thanks to girl friend).
Things are looking better. Think tomorrow I will move where the bumper assembly sits on those ears from radiator frame out slightly
Thanks again.
Dave

[CU9DZ]

Here is a pic of hood with tape on it for alignment. HoodwTapeMark1.JPG
Also have a problem where the front edge of driver door meets fender and windshield frame. The drivers door top front edge goes down at a 45 degree angle. The passenger door just has a notch. What happened?DrivSideGap.JPGPassSideGap.JPG

[CU9DZ]

Also who is using a hinge to attach the hood and are they buying one designed for the 818 or making one from junk yard hinges?
Dave

[wleehendrick]

Also who is using a hinge to attach the hood and are they buying one designed for the 818 or making one from junk yard hinges?
Dave

Craig (ZDM) makes a nice one:

http://zerodecibelmotorsports.com/products/hood-hinge/

[Hindsight]

Glad it helped! I am sure you figured this out already but one other thing is that you may have to trim the bumper near the radiator for clearance. Also the upper bumper perch may need to be trimmed a bit too.

Cant answer your door question sorry. Havent started the doors but as for seeing differences between body panels left vs right, thats unfortunately just how it is. When i test fit mine, I noticed the right door skin didnt follow the side sail contour very well near the door latch, and even the engine cover has a different gap where it meets the door (left side has less gap there than right). Live with it, or add some fiberglass and/or body filler.

[CNC_Geek]

Also who is using a hinge to attach the hood and are they buying one designed for the 818 or making one from junk yard hinges?
Dave

I have made my own hinge for the front hood. It looks good but I have yet to bolt everything together and see it work as expected. the parts are being painted at the moment. I'll include some photos when finished.

[CNC_Geek]

Glad it helped! I am sure you figured this out already but one other thing is that you may have to trim the bumper near the radiator for clearance. Also the upper bumper perch may need to be trimmed a bit too.

Cant answer your door question sorry. Haven't started the doors but as for seeing differences between body panels left vs right, that's unfortunately just how it is. When i test fit mine, I noticed the right door skin didn't follow the side sail contour very well near the door latch, and even the engine cover has a different gap where it meets the door (left side has less gap there than right). Live with it, or add some fiberglass and/or body filler.

I was able to fit my driver side door very well. As you mentioned, the passenger side is NOT the same shape as the side sail it needs to mate with. How many bad parts will factory five build before correcting the mold? My car is S/N 340

[CNC_Geek]

Also who is using a hinge to attach the hood and are they buying one designed for the 818 or making one from junk yard hinges?
Dave

I have made my own hinges. Functional with sporty appearance imo. First I hand shaped cardboard templates. Then cutout 4 arms from .032" aluminum. I purchased cad plated aircraft hardware to bolt 2 arms together with 1/8" spacer in between. In front I welded a piece of aluminum angle to my aluminum mount for the body nose. This is the hinge point on the car. For the hood I used 3 each 1/4"stud bases (Mcmaster Carr) I mounted these studs onto the slotted metal base - leveled them into position - then placed a small amount of bondo body filler with fiberglass under each stud and pressed the studs assembly against the hood. The bondo fills the gap created by the different shapes and curves involved. Next I laid down a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth over all 3 stud bases. Be sure to cover the threaded stud preventing any stray resin from sticking. I expect this to hold well. Time will tell.
Attachment 55613Attachment 55614Attachment 55615Attachment 55616Attachment 55617

[Frank818]

Hey Geek, the attachments fail to load.

[Mechie3]

I was able to fit my driver side door very well. As you mentioned, the passenger side is NOT the same shape as the side sail it needs to mate with. How many bad parts will factory five build before correcting the mold? My car is S/N 340

Considering that people continue to buy it regardless? Never.

[Frank818]

Considering that people continue to buy it regardless? Never.

I don't see it that way. It's cuz most of them were not aware of these issues before buying, unless they read every single post on this forum.

[Frank818]

I was able to fit my driver side door very well. As you mentioned, the passenger side is NOT the same shape as the side sail it needs to mate with. How many bad parts will factory five build before correcting the mold? My car is S/N 340

What do you mean different shape?