Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[mikeb75]

Those vents look serious! Hope all your efforts resolve the oil temp issue so you can recover some sanity & actually enjoy a few races.

[Flamshackle]

If I were to do it again (Which I will never, never, ever do). I would buy a 3.0 thru 3.6L NA Porsche Motor, use 50mm PMO carbs and find a way to make it work in the 818R. Pure simplicity as it best. It would of been cheaper/lighter in the long run. It would of gotten better RMPG (Race miles per gallon). There would of been no need for AWIC (~$1400), iWire ($2200), Dry Sump and associated parts (~$3800), hoses fittings ($500), no radiator ($300), no aluminum coolant tubes (~$600), no need for 3 oil coolers and associated ducts/fans (~$1200) Total: $10K....... Now include the complete plug in race motor/ ECU, Key/immobilizer, Accessport, ($6800) Total $16,800 I could of built one super reliable/bulletproof 911 race motor. Not to mention all the labor of me R&D'ing things plus bigger turbo and injectors. You would not have to worry about coolant temps, AWIC temps, or Oil temps. It would just work!

I figure the weight saved would be at least 200 pounds after negating the weight of the bigger flat 6.

In your case the Porsche motor would have been the way to go considering your previous experience.

Its such a shame you have been so frustrated/disappointed with this build as it seems you are more than happy with the handling.

[C.Plavan]

In your case the Porsche motor would have been the way to go considering your previous experience.

Its such a shame you have been so frustrated/disappointed with this build as it seems you are more than happy with the handling.

You are spot on.

It's just becoming a money pit.


Other things that I don't like- Like others I'm struggling with front tire rub with 225/40 r17 tires. They rub on the inside (which I can live with, since I'm not doing u-turns) and on the outside fender- a little better design/ time to get it right by FFR would of been appreciated. I mean, we are all limited by this which could of been an easy fix on the drawing board.
Then my car, like the other early ones have an error in the steering rack- it's not on center. It would of been nice for them to make us early guys spacers or something to get it centered. I don't like racing with very limited tie rod engagement on one side.

[metalmaker12]

A H6 dry dump pan could have been developed if that was the only draw back. Even the non- turbo ej 's can spin 200whp with some work. If the 818 was lightened 1600-1700lbs and made 200-225whp it could be a track contender, turbo subies are powerful but need attention like most other turbos engines, and you not being a subie guy have found it to be problematic. But you haven't blown it to pieces yet, so your doing good so far. You would have spent much less Na Ej and would have had succes. I use 205 or 215 in the front max, no rub.

[C.Plavan]

A H6 dry dump pan could have been developed if that was the only draw back. Even the non- turbo ej 's can spin 200whp with some work. If the 818 was lightened 1600-1700lbs and made 200-225whp it could be a track contender, turbo subies are powerful but need attention like most other turbos engines, and you not being a subie guy have found it to be problematic. But you haven't blown it to pieces yet, so your doing good so far. You would have spent much less Na Ej and would have had succes. I use 205 or 215 in the front max, no rub.

Hoosier or other fast race tires does not make those sizes..... Thats what I'm talking about. I have not looked at slicks, but that would throw me in higher class.

[Mechie3]

Then my car, like the other early ones have an error in the steering rack- it's not on center. It would of been nice for them to make us early guys spacers or something to get it centered. I don't like racing with very limited tie rod engagement on one side.

When is your next track event? I can try and get one done by then. Overhauling the suspension on my F500 for this weekend so I can do a shakedown before nationals so I may or may not be able to get it to you before the next event.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

When is your next track event? I can try and get one done by then. Overhauling the suspension on my F500 for this weekend so I can do a shakedown before nationals so I may or may not be able to get it to you before the next event.

Hey Craig and Chad.
I have the rack extender for my second car. I can send it to chad if you eventually make me a new one.
In my installation I added a roll pin to lock the adapter to the swivel joint.
Bob
P1040783s.jpg

[C.Plavan]

I'm in no hurry Bob. I appreciate that though. I can wait for Mechie to churn one out. I'm not sure when my next test day will be, but I figure in the next month. I have survived so far, However I will not be racing Willow Springs or California Speedway until I install the spacer.

[C.Plavan]

It's official:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...Test-Mule-quot

[Frank818]

(Gee, the msg is too short with just a smile, sorry I had to write something along with it)

[C.Plavan]

Installed the Spintric. I wont be able to test it until the 21st.

[Sgt.Gator]

We can't wait that long! Fire that puppy up in your driveway and see what happens!

[C.Plavan]

We can't wait that long! Fire that puppy up in your driveway and see what happens!

I never did a base test like you. Not sure what/if it will really prove anything.

I'm going to bypass my rear oil cooler too because I'm feeling confident.... I still will have my two front mounted coolers working.

[Sgt.Gator]

If you run it for a 30- minutes and open the tank with no foam that would be very encouraging.

[C.Plavan]

If you run it for a 30- minutes and open the tank with no foam that would be very encouraging.

I might be able to do that tomorrow.

I also bought a bigger overflow tank and mounted it. Nice and high.

[Frank818]

Installed the Spintric.

You've installed Spoutnik? Your car is really made with a lot of aerospace material. You can fly with it, now! For 20-30mins...

[Flamshackle]

Cant wait to hear the good news

[C.Plavan]

I had some time this weekend to install these Hump Vents. Mechie made them from me, and you can buy them from him now. I like the look of them alot. Get that air out of the top

[Hindsight]

They look really good in black with the matching trunk cover vents. Gives the rear a more aggressive look.

[Frank818]

Definitely looks amazing! As expected...

[metros]

Love it! Goes together very well and definitely makes the rear more aggressive looking.

[Flamshackle]

I had some time this weekend to install these Hump Vents. Mechie made them from me, and you can buy them from him now. I like the look of them alot. Get that air out of the top

Those really suit the car. looks so good!

[C.Plavan]

I just got a new map to try tomorrow. Actually, the same HP/Tq, he just changed some timing variables since I'm not running straight pump gas.

"Hi Chad,
I have attached a map for you. I looked it over and it you had coolant temps persistently over 212*F the map would have been pulling about 2* of timing pro-actively. Add in intake air temps of 120*F and above and there would have been an additional 1.4* to 2.8* pulled. That would certainly translate to power loss as the car heated up. The proactive coolant temp compensations to that degree are needed on pump gas and but given the relatively understressed nature of your setup and that you are running race gas, I have reduced the amount of authority coolant temp has on timing compensations. It will still pull timing above 230*F, but you probably shouldn't be running the car that hot anyways. Same story with the intake temp compensation. The car loosing a bit of power as you are on track with the air-water ic is inevitable, as your current heat exchanger is not able to fully shed all the heat being inputted in to the water (causing the manifold air temps to creep up during the session) but that effect should be fairly minimal now."

Now as long as the oil temps stay down, we will finally be in business.

[Tamra]

Nice! That sounds like good news. What are the peak pre and post IC temps you are seeing while racing out of curiosity?

[C.Plavan]

Nice! That sounds like good news. What are the peak pre and post IC temps you are seeing while racing out of curiosity?

Pre- depends... Its 100+ out here in California. Post when it is 100+ ambient is 132- 143 degrees. That is floored going down a long straight.

[Tamra]

Thanks Chad.

Good luck this weekend!

[bbjones121]

I hope goes well Chad and you have fun!

[Mulry]

Good luck Chad. I'm hopeful that this will solve the issue you were having and it's unrelated to the oil temp after all that. Not just because that would make my build less spendy

I find it interesting that your tuner thinks the AWIC isn't fully getting the job done. If that's true for sprint races, then it's going to be even more of a problem for endurance. I wonder how Audi and Porsche and Toyota solve this problem on their turbo endurance racers.

[Mitch Wright]

in the case of the Porsche 919 LMP car is uses a air to air intercooler. I know that was true of the R18 Audi as well, not sure about the most current LMP car but would be surprised if it wasn't air to air.

Good luck Chad

[Hindsight]

A2W is definitely capable of transferring all the heat out of the water and keeping the intake air temps 5-10 degrees above ambient. You just have to ensure both heat exchangers are properly sized and that the pump moving enough water through the system. So if your post temps on the straights are getting over 110 on a full throttle run down a straight on a 100 ambient day, something is not sized properly. Dual water temp gauges would help you determine whether it is the front or rear heat exchanger and could also help you determine if the pump is moving enough water. In other words, if you are relying on the "capacity" of the system to provide a buffer, then the system is not sized correctly for track use.

All that said though, yeah, I haven't seen an A2W setup on a road racing or endurance car. Generally more seen for street and drag racing.

Good luck Chad and keep us posted.

[C.Plavan]

A2W is definitely capable of transferring all the heat out of the water and keeping the intake air temps 5-10 degrees above ambient. You just have to ensure both heat exchangers are properly sized and that the pump moving enough water through the system. So if your post temps on the straights are getting over 110 on a full throttle run down a straight on a 100 ambient day, something is not sized properly. Dual water temp gauges would help you determine whether it is the front or rear heat exchanger and could also help you determine if the pump is moving enough water. In other words, if you are relying on the "capacity" of the system to provide a buffer, then the system is not sized correctly for track use.

All that said though, yeah, I haven't seen an A2W setup on a road racing or endurance car. Generally more seen for street and drag racing.

Good luck Chad and keep us posted.

I bought Wayne's kit. So this is before any real racing. I would love to design a a2a kit utilizing Kirk818's side scoops. I really think I will be dumping the AWIC setup for a lighter a2a kit when and if I get this thing running right. Wayne's kit is perfect for the street 818's/ marginal for racing with out mods. Remember I only have 280 RWHP, but I'm in full boost 80% each lap.
I just talked with some Porsche Factory guys. A2A is way better for endurance racing.

[RM1SepEx]

Chad, my AAIC will work fine with his scoops. Craig can lead you to all the parts and he has my sketches to make fancy IC brackets. I'll have more ducting worked out soon but it is easy to mount a good sized IC to get air from the side. I have a fan that will run whenever the key is on and a small rocker switch to turn it off if I want too. When you clock the turbo about 135 degrees and dump the TGVs it all fits nicely.

[Sgt.Gator]

it's getting near lunch, almost time for a Track Day Update!

[C.Plavan]

I only paid for a half day.... As I'm sure you know why. It starts at 1pm.

Car is all set up and waiting. I'm looking forward to seeing if the vents keep things cool also.

[C.Plavan]

1st session- got too hot. Came in and plugged the oil tank and vent lines
2nd session- got too hot again. Waiting for oil to cool off then I'm changing it.

Looked in the oil tank- no foam at all. Spintric is working on that end. If the new oil does the same thing, I'll have to install the 10cm oil pump.

Threw down a personal best on the second lap out with the same damn crappy tires I have been using since Feb. 1:53 CW #13 Buttonwillow.

[Hindsight]

Sorry to hear it's still getting hot, but congrats on the lap times!

What do you mean you plugged the oil tank and vent lines?

Do you have panels in place to ensure all air that enters through the front vents is forced through the radiator and AWIC heat exchanger, and that it can't escape elsewhere?

[C.Plavan]

Sorry to hear it's still getting hot, but congrats on the lap times!

What do you mean you plugged the oil tank and vent lines?

Do you have panels in place to ensure all air that enters through the front vents is forced through the radiator and AWIC heat exchanger, and that it can't escape elsewhere?

Still got hot after a couple laps with the new oil. I just think my motor is screwed somehow.

There is a detail of the dry sump in the R section. Look at the last couple pages.

Yes, everything (Awic/oil coolers/ radiator) is paneled in an blocked so air has to go through.

[Frank818]

Got hot, but... no foam! That's a step fwd, no?

[Aero STI]

Bummer. There is still hope for an underdrive crank pulley, but it does seem like something is wrong with your motor.

[Zach34]

Not sure I would rule out the tune, either. Did it seem at all improved from before? If I'm understanding this foaming oil phenomenon correctly, it seems it should cause heat to build extremely quickly and also cause oil pressure to drop, but it takes about 15 minutes of track time for it to do that, right?