Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[D Clary]

Looked like he had restraints to me. Nice job Chad. when do you come up north?

[C.Plavan]

PS. No restraints? That would never fly here..

Arm restraints? I have them on.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great Job Chad,
I have watched sections of your video 4-5 times. Very quick hands at the 4 min mark.
Do you have any comments on Brakes?
Any tire rub?
Thanks for posting this.
Bob

[Hindsight]

That 997 though! What class was he running in do you know? Thing was crazy fast.

Finally got time to watch the vid and looks great. Obvious that you have a lot of distractions and things to do to get fully sorted, which is a good thing because it means a lot more seconds to shave off.

How do you feel about the balance of the car? Is it pretty neutral?

[tmoretta]

Is that the rear of the hood bouncing about? Is anyone dealing with that by stiffening the hood etc.?

[C.Plavan]

Thanks guys- It will get better with time.

That 997 is in ST2 also. He was fast. He finished 3rd that race.

Yes, there was tire rub on the inside of the front fenders. I had to raise the car in front a little bit more at the track. I have 17x8 38 ET wheels with 225/40 R17 Hoosiers on the front now.

Willow Springs in not a big braking track, but ever since I swapped to my favorite race pads after the Buttonwillow test, everything is much, much, better

135+MPH will make any fiberglass hood bounce about with the way these are mounted. I taped down the hood for added safety, I may just run the hood pins on the front portion of the hood instead of the Qwik Latches.

Next race is at Buttonwillow in 6 weeks. Hopefully, everything will be better with the car.

[longislandwrx]

good thing you have that private track to dial it in.

[bstuke]

Arm restraints? I have them on.

Did I mention I'm going blind?

Great job Chad.

[C.Plavan]

OK. I just talked with the tuner. For the solution for the over boost, It looks like we are going the EWG route and keeping this turbo in the car I ever want to run ST1.

"With an EWG I can guarantee that we can dial in the exact boost profile that we are looking for and I can increase midrange boost and taper it off at the top to yield a long, flat plateau of power at 280-284whp.

Now I need to start looking into these EWG systems. Anyone have any experience with manufacturers?

[Mechie3]

I've had good success with grimmspeed products and used their uppipe before. They have an EWG version of it.

[Tamra]

Awesome video! It's great to see an 818 in the wild

(and especially one that made it home whole)

[305mouse]

I had the Grimmspeed ewg 38 ewg setup on the Saabaru. perfect fit.

[Hindsight]

Anyone have any experience with manufacturers?

Not personal experience but a LOT of research and talking with a local tuner who always has about 20 GTRs and a bunch of Subies in their parking lot says that Tial are fantastic. They are what I'd run.

[Scargo]

Tials are good. You might want to consider this water-cooled one. It was suggested as an option for me, where I will have a huge amount of wastegate action, as I keep power under 270 WHP to 8K+ and try and keep the low-end (torque) maxed-out.

[metalmaker12]

Tial

[Evan78]

What was all the hand waving just after the start?

[C.Plavan]

What was all the hand waving just after the start?

Waving yellow because Viper and Porsche just crashed in front of us. (Split start). I didn't want to get nailed from behind.

[C.Plavan]

Tials are good. You might want to consider this water-cooled one. It was suggested as an option for me, where I will have a huge amount of wastegate action, as I keep power under 270 WHP to 8K+ and try and keep the low-end (torque) maxed-out.

Thanks- just curious where to tap the coolant connections from?

[apexanimal]

tial ewg's are pretty much the go-to...

[JeromeS13]

I'm a huge fan of TurboSmart products, myself.

[C.Plavan]

Do I want the 44/45mm Grimmspeed up pipe/ EWG set up even if I have the stock headers? Or the 38mm version? Remember I have the Blouch DOM 1.5.

I'm thinking about getting the 44/45mm so I can use that Tial MV-R 44mm EWG

[bbjones121]

I mentioned an EWG back in post 1085 or so. An external will be huge benefit to you, but if you want to do it right, i would not weld your Dom internal wastegate. Sell it and buy a turbo without the internal wastegate cavities. Get the vband 38mm tial, you will have better resolution/control for a dom 1.5 sized turbo. It is like sizing a control valve, too big and you cant control properly. Obviously double check with the turbo manufacturer to see what size they recommend.

Here is some info for you, but consider the date. This was written before the vband 38.http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1190530

[Scargo]

I would agree that you would be better off with the right turbo. Twin-scroll! Garrett GTX2867R or BW EFR 7064 with external wastgates come to mind.

[longislandwrx]

I'm a huge fan of TurboSmart products, myself.

agreed, the 40mm is a nice product for $300

no need to weld, just order with the adjustable bracket

waste.PNG

[Scargo]

I would agree that you would be better off with a more appropriate turbo. Twinscroll! Garrett GTX2867R or Borg Warner EFR 7064 with external wastegates come to mind.
Look at this Matchbot prediction where you get almost 500 FPT on pump gas with the 7064! Your up to max HP at 22 PSI @ 3700 RPM. Wastegating only gets to 52% at 7K.

[C.Plavan]

Now I'm all confused. lol. Not sure my 245 rear tires (limited width for rules calc for ST2) would be capable of that torque for very long.

[tebriel]

In terms of what size EWG you want, it depends on turbo size and how much boost you'll be running. A larger waste gate will be able to vent more exhaust if you are running lower boost. I would think turbosmart and tial are pretty equal in quality from what I've seen.

[Scargo]

That's correct. If you look at Matchbot numbers it says what you need.

Turbine Match Outputs
Exhaust Manifold Pressure	psi	13.9	15.3	15.2	13	11.1	10.7
Engine Delta Pressure (dP)	psi	9	7	5	2	-2	-3
Turbine Swallowing Parameter	PHI	0.0284	0.0287	0.0286	0.0279	0.0269	0.0267
Turbine Corrected Flow @ 59F	lb/min	20.4	20.5	20.5	20	19.3	19.1
Is the Wastegate Flow Choked?	`	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
Wastegate Flow Area @ CF=0.9	in2	0.18	0.4	0.58	0.84	1.13	1.3
WG Port Diameter Requirement	mm	12	18	22	26	30	33

To be clear, the EFR 7064 comes in internally wastegated and externally wastegated models. The externally wastegated one is what I tuned the Matchbot calculations for. The others have a smaller turbine side (a/r ratio housing). none are going to hurt you, but the smaller ones will spool a little faster on the low-end. You are certainly not left wanting at high RPMs with any of them. It's only that the turbo only offers an externally wastegated version in the larger, 1.05 a/r ratio turbine side.
If you pick an internally wastegated one then you pick the EFR Wastegate Canister to match the a/r housing you select (I would do the .83=179285, 179286, or 179287).

You may just have the wrong vacuum canister on the Blouch! Did the tuner discuss this possibility?

[Tamra]

I think there's something wrong with the Blouch... it really shouldn't have boost creep like that. Could it be something with the exhaust back pressure being different than on a Subaru or something?

The Borg Warners are going to be overkill for his horsepower goals.

[D Clary]

You may be right on the torque Chad, it looked like the time the car got real loose was on throttle. We are a little tire limited. You wrote that the were qualifying on A-7s. How long will they last at that, I would think maybe 3 sessions and they would be no better than R-7. I auto x on A-7s but have not used them up yet. in 4 auto x. When you get to the heat of summer the R-7 may be fine for qualifying.

[C.Plavan]

EWG Upgrade:

I had a productive Sunday. I removed old Invidia Up Pipe and replaced it with a Grimmspeed EWG model. The Grimmspeed went in way easier than the Invida. I put the correct springs into the Tial 38mm MVS. I'm just wondering where I'm going to plumb the -4AN coolant to the Tial from??? Throttle body coolant hoses that I looped maybe?

The included dump tube with the up pipe will not work. It would dump super hot exhaust right onto the diffuser. It looks like I will need to visit a muffler shop to have them make/bend a dump tube that will not melt anything. I also ordered the 1/4" Cobb adapter kit for my EBCS with new 6mm silicon line- I guess the bigger 1/4" ports are beneficial for EWG's.

Oil Cooling upgrade:
I received my bigger Setrab oil cooler- it is twice the size as the old one with dual fans. I'm sure this will fix the high temps (240-250 degrees) with a little ducting and 3" hose. I bought a few NACA ducts with 3" hose provisions. I'm not sure I will use them yet, or just 3D print something for the side vents and run the 3" hose to dump out cool air onto the oil cooler (with enclosed ducts to the cooler)/ so fans can pull through.

Air Intake Upgrade:

I bought a SPT air intake along with some aluminum tube/couplers- I plan on moving the intake/filter down to the passenger side vent, low.

Some other things I noticed, I'm going to have to raise the rear ride height also (I raised the front at the track because of crazy tire rub on the outer fender). The rear tires were hitting the top of the splash guards. One side melted the bulb seal.

Stay tuned- I have another tune scheduled for April 6th. Then race 2 weeks after that.

[Scargo]

I like the direction you are going in with these upgrades. Highly concur.
"3D print something for the side vents and run the 3" hose to dump out cool air onto the oil cooler (with enclosed ducts to the cooler)/ so fans can pull through." YES! I've worried that I'll have trouble packaging my oil cooler right behind the opening and adequately directing the airflow.
Like many modded Subies, it would be good to have a sort of "cold air box" and where you're going is where I was going to put mine. Can't wait to see what you come up with.
I don't look forward to the wheel well liners. What is your bump travel and do you need all of it? Can you curve/bend/reshape it so it can go higher? What about raising the body? I'm intending to do that some in the front and rear. Right now my sail bottoms are 1/8" above the frame bottom. So, I've raised it at least 1/4". My goal was to try and live within the stock fender flares. I haven't even looked at the liners...

[C.Plavan]

I had a little time tonight to work on the new oil cooler and prototype some vents. The vents on the oil cooler are near perfect.
I then worked some quick prototypes to mount on the side vents. Pictured is version one, where I made some notes and some adjustments. I'm already printing version 3. It takes about 3 or 4 hours to finish printing one. I'm hoping to finish mounting the oil cooler tomorrow night. Then clean the car!!!! It is a mess.

[Scargo]

Looking good!
Will that plastic withstand the potential heat without deformation or do you see using it as a pattern? I used to take those and make silicone molds and cast thermoset parts. Investment cast aluminum parts from them?
Is that the bracketry on the sides of the cooler what came with the fans?

[STiPWRD]

You may want to round some of those sharp corners on the 3D printed part as it will greatly improve air flow. Also, it looks like your ducting hose would have to make a 90 degree bend to clear the rear tires, maybe it's worth 3D printing that into the scoop.

[D Clary]

How much are you raising the car? Do you have a sway bar? Just thinking If we need to go to high I may increase my spring rates.

[C.Plavan]

Looking good!
Will that plastic withstand the potential heat without deformation or do you see using it as a pattern? I used to take those and make silicone molds and cast thermoset parts. Investment cast aluminum parts from them?
Is that the bracketry on the sides of the cooler what came with the fans?

Thanks- I'm sure they would be good with the heat. There will be alot of airflow through the ducts at speed and with the fans (fans simulate 50 MPH speed alone)- You have to buy the brackets separately. I think they cost under $40. The oil cooler comes with the fans if you order the right one.

You may want to round some of those sharp corners on the 3D printed part as it will greatly improve air flow. Also, it looks like your ducting hose would have to make a 90 degree bend to clear the rear tires, maybe it's worth 3D printing that into the scoop.

I did add an angle on the hose attachment to clear the rear splash guards on version 3. I would love to change those sharp edges, but I'm limited with the software I'm using and user skill. I wish I could get Solidworks $$$$$. I'm just trying to prove this will work first, I may go back and try to fix things later There will be the fans pulling air through those ducts also (back side of oil cooler). I'm not too concerned since it did not have any ducting and a smaller oil cooler before.

[C.Plavan]

How much are you raising the car? Do you have a sway bar? Just thinking If we need to go to high I may increase my spring rates.

No need for a sway bar. I was thinking going up 10% on all springs. I'm probably going to have to raise the rear another 1/4" or more.

[STiPWRD]

I did add an angle on the hose attachment to clear the rear splash guards on version 3. I would love to change those sharp edges, but I'm limited with the software I'm using and user skill. I wish I could get Solidworks $$$$$. I'm just trying to prove this will work first, I may go back and try to fix things later There will be the fans pulling air through those ducts also (back side of oil cooler). I'm not too concerned since it did not have any ducting and a smaller oil cooler before.

If you send me your cad file, I can modify it for you and send it back

[longislandwrx]

The tb feed/return is probably a good place to hook up the gate, although the more I read, the more it seems like hardly anyone bothers to hook them up... even on serious builds.

After you tune you might want to log your WGDC and see how much time it spends dumping fire. Then decide if its worth hooking up.