Brando's Newbie 818R Build Thread

[Frank818]

You are joking right? You forgot the wink face

Yeah I was of course and still am, forgot the wink, was still looking at the gogo girl, but I also tried to be super super polite, that it's technically possible someone would want a super narrow torque band for a very ultra specific reason, get the most out of it and not care about the other ranges. Of course you need gear ratios to match that ultra tight range.

I am surprised you didn't notice any power drop when you drive it? I mean torque increases slowly, then WHAM kick in the bot, then immediately after, off power, adrenaline down. Maybe it wasn't noticeable enough when driving? Talking about torque curve, not the knocking.

Like everyone said, you really need some logging to check on those issues (apparent knocking and spikey torque curve).

[Brando]

I have the Romraider log, car and ECU definitions updated and the Openport 2.0 will be here Thursday.
I'm excited to start digging into the data side of this project. My career is based on data, reporting and analytics so this should be a fun new chapter.

I'm looking at 96 different parameters to capture. What parameters should I be capturing on my first data logging attempt?

A/F Adjustment Voltage (V)
A/F Correction #1 (%)
A/F Correction #2 (%)
A/F Correction #3 (16-bit ECU) (%)
A/F Correction #3 (32-bit ECU) (%)
A/F Heater Duty (%)
A/F Lean Correction (%)
A/F Learning #1 (%)
A/F Learning #2 (%)
A/F Learning #3 (%)
A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #1 Current (mA)
A/F Sensor #1 Heater Current (A)
A/F Sensor #1 Resistance (ohms)
A/F Sensor #2 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #2 Current (mA)
A/F Sensor #2 Heater Current (A)
A/F Sensor #2 Resistance (ohms)
Accelerator Pedal Angle (%)
Alternator Duty (%)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Brake Booster Pressure (psi)
CO Adjustment (V)
Cold Start Injector (Air Pump) (ms)
Coolant Temperature (F)
CPC Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Differential Pressure Sensor Voltage (V)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Exhaust OCV Current Left (mA)
Exhaust OCV Current Right (mA)
Exhaust OCV Duty Left (%)
Exhaust OCV Duty Right (%)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Front O2 Heater Current #1 (A)
Front O2 Heater Current #2 (A)
Front O2 Sensor #1 (V)
Front O2 Sensor #2 (V)
Fuel Consumption (Est.) (mpg (US))
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Level (V)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Tank Pressure (psi)
Fuel Temperature (F)
Gear Position (gear)
IAM (multiplier)
Idle Speed Control Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Idle Speed Control Valve Step (steps)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Intake OCV Current Left (mA)
Intake OCV Current Right (mA)
Intake OCV Duty Left (%)
Intake OCV Duty Right (%)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Learned Ignition Timing (degrees)
Main Accelerator Sensor (V)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Memorised Cruise Speed (mph)
Number of Exh. Gas Recirc. Steps (steps)
Pressure Differential Sensor (psi)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Rear O2 Heater Current (A)
Rear O2 Heater Voltage (V)
Rear O2 Sensor (V)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #1 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #2 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #3 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #4 (misfire count)
SCV Step (steps)
Secondary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Sub Accelerator Sensor (V)
Sub Throttle Sensor (V)
Throttle Motor Duty (%)
Throttle Motor Voltage (V)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Tumble Valve Position Sensor Left (V)
Tumble Valve Position Sensor Right (V)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

[Frank818]

Here are some I think may be interesting to check:

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
A/F Sensor #2 (AFR)
Accelerator Pedal Angle (%)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Temperature (F)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #1 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #2 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #3 (misfire count)
Roughness Monitor Cylinder #4 (misfire count)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

I do not know the WRX enough, but I think that's a start.

[JeromeS13]

This is a good start with good info:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=5384

[Frank818]

Brandon, I guess you were running open loop?

[Evan78]

One concern is the detonation didn't start until the 4th lap, it's going to be hard for me to put that kind of strain and heat on the car driving it around my house with no tags. Hopefully the underlying issue will still expose itself with a few hotlaps around the block.

I'm no expert, but I would try to avoid the knock event you experienced. My approach would be to get the oil up to temp and then do ONE 3rd gear pull and post the results. Even without knock, there might be some red flags.

[Brando]

Building my profile for the log and noticed there was no check box to capture boost levels.

[Wayne Presley]

Manifold Absolute Pressure Brando...
0 kPa = 0 psi =0 Bar
100 kPa = 14.7 psi = 1 bar = 0 psi boost

[JeromeS13]

Or boost pressure in manifold = Manifold Relative Pressure

[Wayne Presley]

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Exhaust Gas Temperature (F)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Exhaust VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Fuel Tank Pressure (psi)
IAM (multiplier)
Idle Speed Control Valve Duty Ratio (%)
Idle Speed Control Valve Step (steps)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (degrees)
Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (degrees)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Learned Ignition Timing (degrees)
Main Accelerator Sensor (V)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
Manifold Relative Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Throttle Opening Angle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)


This would be my list if the data rate is high enough.

if it has a low data rate

A/F Sensor #1 (AFR)
Atmospheric Pressure (psi)
Battery Voltage (V)
Coolant Temperature (F)
Engine Load (Calculated) (g/rev)
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Engine Speed (rpm)
Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees)
Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Injector #2 Pulse Width (ms)
Fuel Pressure (High) (psi)
Fuel Pump Duty (%)
Ignition Total Timing (degrees)
Injector Duty Cycle (%)
Intake Air Temperature (F)
Knock Correction Advance (degrees)
Main Throttle Sensor (V)
Manifold Absolute Pressure (psi)
Mass Airflow (g/s)
Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)
Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)
Throttle Sensor Voltage (V)
Time (msec)
Vehicle Speed (mph)

[JeromeS13]

Do you have a wideband O2 installed?

[Brando]

Wayne thank you! That was super helpful.
What do you consider to be a high data refresh rate?

Yes Jerome I do have a wideband O2 installed

[Wayne Presley]

You can cheat and use one of the TGV position sensor wires to datalog the wideband voltage directly since the valves are probably not there..

[Brando]

Wayne, sorry if I am slow to grasp all of this. So if I understand you correctly, since I have a TGV delete I can take those wires and capture the wideband voltage into the "Tumble Valve Position" parameter.
Am I capturing the wideband voltage from the Wideband O2 sensor plug? I don't need to keep that plugged into it's rightful spot when I do the datalog?

[Wayne Presley]

Brando,
Your wideband should be a sensor with a control module/cable with a 0-5V+ output. The stock ECU is designed for a narrow band sensor. How were logging the AFR with the wideband?

[STiPWRD]

What sort of wideband o2 are you using? Most of the wideband AFR gauges have a wire that outputs the wideband voltage (0-5V). I think this is the wire that has to be hooked up to the TGV position sensor. This is a very cool trick, never heard of it but will most likely use it in the future, thanks Wayne!

[Brando]

Hi Guys. I just completed a 3 gear pull. 90 degrees out and it was up a moderate hill.

CLICK HERE FOR 3rd Gear Pull on Google Docs

As I mentioned on the dyno results, it appeared the boost hit 18.5 psi and just flat-lined right there. The Manifold Relative Pressure (psi) would indicate the same. Isn't that odd for the boost to hit a wall like that? 18.43 psi?
I appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance for taking a look at my log files.

[Rasmus]

it appeared the boost hit 18.5 psi and just flat-lined right there. The Manifold Relative Pressure (psi) would indicate the same. Isn't that odd for the boost to hit a wall like that? 18.43 psi?

Because you have wastegate duty cycle logged also I'm gonna say, No, that's not weird. The log read's like 18.43psi is your target boost and the wastegate is opening up more and more to keep the system from overboosting the target. Looks to be functioning fine. AFR's look nice too, hitting a nice 11.25 ratio.

[JeromeS13]

Hi Guys. I just completed a 3 gear pull. 90 degrees out and it was up a moderate hill.

CLICK HERE FOR 3rd Gear Pull on Google Docs

As I mentioned on the dyno results, it appeared the boost hit 18.5 psi and just flat-lined right there. The Manifold Relative Pressure (psi) would indicate the same. Isn't that odd for the boost to hit a wall like that? 18.43 psi?
I appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance for taking a look at my log files.

Holy knock correction!

[JeromeS13]

I'm no tuning expert by any means, but your total timing looks to be a good bit too high.

[Wayne Presley]

Hey Brando,
It's running a lot timing on the front and trying to pull it due to the knock sensor. It looks like the MAF sensor is getting close to maxing out, I've read that 4.72 is the top of the MAF sensor curve. Who did the tuning?

[Brando]

My original tune was done by Church Automotive. No issues 17psi. After the rebuilt the tune was done by Garage tuning. I have an appointment next Saturday at Church Automotive again.
Hopefully things will be back on point after that.

[Frank818]

"Church" Automotive.

In God We Trust.

27-28-deg at 18.4psi of boost? Are you running 7.0 CR? Wayne already answered, I don't know about Subaru's engines, but EDIT: [on pump gas, which you aren't using I think] over 20-22-deg with forged pistons and 20psi at 8.5CR I'd question it, just in case.
Seems odd that your knock correction is always pulling back timing. That should be 0 across the board. At least that's how I tune it. Actually I don't like knock sensors and don't use them, cuz when they apply corrections, it's already too late, it knocked.

Nice log though, I love logging and optimizing tunes. I just don't know anything about the limits and behaviors of the Subaru's engines.

[Wayne Presley]

Before you have it tuned, I'd move the IAT sensor to after the IC.

[Brando]

Roger that.
Why do you think the IAT's drop during the pull? 117 to 104.

[Wayne Presley]

I looked at the tune for the 411 HP motor I just did and its running 14° of timing at 4500 RPM/23psi with 110 octane fuel, your running 28° at 18.5 psi with pump gas right?

[Brando]

100 octane

[Wayne Presley]

Your IAT sensor is in the MAF sensor and as you roll out faster, more outside air gets in the engine compartment and into the motor.

[metalmaker12]

Brando that tune and dyno chart is way off man. Your timing is scary and way off also. I would check the motors vitals out prior to another tune.Than if good get a tune that is not just aweful. Also You're running an oem maf wiring setup, and a 2.0 non avcs motor, if so, you might want to go speed density with your setup and tune. This will get rid ( tune out) of the maf and intake and you can place the iat in its rightful place. Just moving it disturbs other tables and the tuning will become more of a guessing game and take up more valuable time.

[Brando]

Thanks for the feedback.

The company I am having re-tune is Church Auto and they do one and only one thing. Tune Honda and Subaru. He has a very solid reputation and is one of the most respected Subaru tuners in SoCal. I'm going to give him a shot before looking elsewhere.

The motor is a JDM and has AVCS. When you say check out the vitals what exactly does that entail?

[Wayne Presley]

He means to do a compression or leak down test to make sure you didn't hurt the Pistons

[JeromeS13]

I would also check to see if there's something loose and banging against the engine/trans somewhere. If so, the ECU may think it's knock and be pulling excessive timing. Get someone to check for ticking sounds all over.

[metalmaker12]

Thanks for the feedback.

The company I am having re-tune is Church Auto and they do one and only one thing. Tune Honda and Subaru. He has a very solid reputation and is one of the most respected Subaru tuners in SoCal. I'm going to give him a shot before looking elsewhere.


The motor is a JDM and has AVCS. When you say check out the vitals what exactly does that entail?

So your running an ej207 like me, or a jdm ej205.
Go for the retune as you are and I have heard good things of church, so they should be able to get it running correctly. I am thinking your going to be ok. Keep the avcs and just fix whatever you got going on. Good luck!!!

[Brando]

I'm getting a brake and light inspection AGAIN today. Fingers crossed.

I'm getting my toe in changed while it's there. I have heard a few different opinions. I was going to go with even up front and 1/8 toe in on the rear. 3/16 seems to much. Is 1/8" enough?

[wleehendrick]

I'm getting a brake and light inspection AGAIN today. Fingers crossed.

Good luck, Brandon. Hope you get a more reasonable inspector this time!

[Scargo]

I was going to go with even up front and 1/8 toe in on the rear. 3/16 seems to much. Is 1/8" enough?

While I am an "a*s man" more than anything else, I don't know about toe in the rear. It might depend on how solid the rear-end is.
I don't know the answer, but before you write me off as a dirty old man, consider this:
Neutral up front is a good starting point. As to the rear, you might want to look at comparable cars. Still, yours is unique and nobody's going to have the same spring/shock combination or the same suspension compliance. So, yours will squat and raise differently, and the wheels will shift fore to aft differently, as forces are applied to them, which is the main reason for not having zero toe all-round.
As of late, all I know is AWD Subie race cars. I don't think my experiences with it would do you or the 818 community any good. I was just recently amazed at how a loose rear-end GD track car (where loose is unusual in it's own right) could be instantly transformed into neutral handling with a little softening of the rear sway bar.

[Brando]

Today was a great day in my 818 world. For starters I passed my Brake and Light inspection. I did nothing different except took it to a different place. None of the trivial items I previously failed on were brought up. In fact they didn't even bring up one gotcha, just passed it. Awesome

Now I only need to meet with the CA REFs and this R will be plated, probably before SEMA. I know most R owners don't see merit to registering their R, but this evening, the beautiful drive down the 73 freeway, in 85 degree weather with the sun setting over the ocean begs to differ.

Something I find quite interesting is how my car alignment was setup. I knew the last place that aligned the car didn't get it right. I have spun my car out 3x times now (all on autoX tracks), every time turning left. So it turns out my left rear wheel was perfectly straight, while my right rear wheel had a whopping 1/4" toe out. I knew the original alignment had to be garbage, every time I used to lift the throttle the car pulled right, on the throttle left. Now I can drive practically hands off the wheel and she tracks perfectly, on & off throttle. I'm still taken back that the alignment was so jacked up.

I ended up going with no toe in up front and 3/16" toe in on the rear. I'm keeping maximum caster up front and currently -3 degrees camber front and -2 degrees rear. I'm considering going -2 front and -3 rear but first I want to drive with the setup as is before making another adjustment. I'm confident this car will drive like a completely different animal. I can't wait to feel the difference this is going to make on the next track day.

Thanks to Brian (Iwire) for making a harness on his first attempt, that would pass the Brake & Light inspection
Thanks to Eric Hanson for pointing me to the right place to get past this hurdle
Thanks to Wayne for fielding my last second calls/txt messages when I am in a pinch
Lastly thanks to all the forum member for all your threads, advice, expertise and being such a stellar community.

See some of you in Vegas baby yea!

[Wayne Presley]

The 818 is sensitive to alignment so a quality alignment is paramount.
Your welcome Brandon.

[Frank818]

The 818 is sensitive to alignment so a quality alignment is paramount.

What is a "quality" alignment? Same numbers on each side (no matter what the numbers are) or the right numbers on each side (the ones the car will be optimal at)?

[iWire]

wOOt! Congrats on passing the inspection. Glad to help.