Engine engine engine

Hi all,

Newb to forum and on list for a 30th anniversary Mk5 even though i have no idea what it comes with yet. Dave just said "It'll be worth the wait".

I am going to build this with my son, and we are all over the place on engines. We want reliability and simplicity, safe to drive while sounding and looking cool. I know thats a long list but still dont know if that means blueprint 427, FF coyote or Godzilla.

I get the answer is its all about your own preference, but would really appreciate some sage words from you guys if you are able to share.

Thanks and looking forward to this.

Chris

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Originally Posted by UKSNAKE

Hi all,

Newb to forum and on list for a 30th anniversary Mk5 even though i have no idea what it comes with yet. Dave just said "It'll be worth the wait".

I am going to build this with my son, and we are all over the place on engines. We want reliability and simplicity, safe to drive while sounding and looking cool. I know thats a long list but still dont know if that means blueprint 427, FF coyote or Godzilla.

I get the answer is its all about your own preference, but would really appreciate some sage words from you guys if you are able to share.

Thanks and looking forward to this.

Chris

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Really any V8 you put in these cars is going to be wicked quick due to the fact that it is so light weight. I went with a Gen 2 Coyote in mine and I'm very happy with it. I've put about 1,100 miles on it since completed and have zero issues. It starts up everytime, runs, and sounds awesome.
Just my 2 cents....

Coyote.
Mike

Huge Coyote fan here, so that's what you'll get from me. I've done builds with SBF's and prefer the Coyote. Reliable, extremely streetable, but still as wild as you want. And a good value if you compare apples to apples. I know some prefer the more traditional look and sound for a pushrod motor. So there's that. Really early for the Godzilla in these builds so a little depends on your experience level and (maybe) some issues to work through. Have you priced out the changes necessary on both the top and bottom? Otherwise it doesn't fit. The weight alone would also give me pause. But you would be in unique company if you went that way.

Be prepared for a lot of opinions when it comes to talking about engines. These cars are very light 2,200 - 2,400 lbs. ish, like Chris mentioned above almost any V8 will get the car going in a hurry. The bigger the V8 the more power/torque of course. My two cents is for you to determine what kind of driving you want to do with the car and choose based on that. If you're just cruising around and some road trips then choose based on that, if you're thinking to track the car then there's generally more to the build then just a larger engine. In my opinion when you get over 400 hp in these cars and plan to use it you should know how to drive it cause you can get into trouble very quickly when you least expect it, it certainly isn't even close to the daily driver. That being said the coyote is an all around good choice, new tech and pretty much trouble free, lots of support on the forum for this installation (no small benefit). If you're planning to track the car then there are some pretty qualified guys on the forum to help you there. Then there is always the Iconic 427 badge if that's what your looking for. I hope this helps, I'm sure you'll get lots of input.

Blueprint 427 all day long. We love the Coyote in my wife's Mustang GT. But I have no interest in an FFR roadster looking like the Mustang when I pop the hood open.

LS.

Hey, somebody had to say it! :D

Jeff

My dream engine would be a Prestige Small block 427 with the Jim Inglese Stack EFI. However, my budget would never get me there.

Just fired up my Boss 427 yesterday and love it!

Never a Godzilla

Watching this thread like a hawk.

Love the 427 but I’d go with the Godzilla since FFR has created a platform for it. The novelty alone is worth the price of admission.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

LS.

Hey, somebody had to say it! :D

Jeff

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I'll second that, but I'm biased. Seriously though, unless you're stuck with Ford for some reason, the LS platform is ideal. It meets all of your criteria:

"reliability and simplicity, safe to drive while sounding and looking cool"

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...3deb8ccd87.jpg

Here's my 5 cents worth!

SBF 302 with fuel injection carb. Looks authentic and is reliable and simple. Less than $8K
LS 6.0 with factory fuel injection for the best value or you can go with a fuel injection carb for a more authentic look. Also reliable and simple. Less than $10K.
Coyote 5.0 if you want a modern Ford engine and you don't mind the cramp engine bay. $12K to $14K

I'm biased to the LS motors. I'm a first time builder and it took me 20 minutes to install the motor and trans by myself. I helped a local friend install his Coyote and it took about an hour + to install his motor and trans. It's a tight fit but it does fit and it seems to be the most popular choice.

It really comes down to what you want it to look like when you open the hood.

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Originally Posted by UKSNAKE

We want reliability and simplicity, safe to drive while sounding and looking cool.

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Realistically any engine today with EFI and electronic ignition is going to give you this. So the question becomes what else are you looking for?

If you want a modern overhead cam engine that's the Coyote. Lots of performance and will outlive the car for a relatively small amount of money. Downsides to a Coyote are size, you need a shoehorn to squeeze it onto a Cobra. Kind of embarrassing to open the hood as they're just fugly. Sound, they lack that throaty rumble at idle and low speeds that you get from a pushrod engine as they kind of purr at idle. But all that aside they are a great, great engine.

If you want period correct looking then you're looking at a pushrod engine. LS6 is a great modern platform but you have to put up with all the crap about it being a Chevy, never mind this car is a replica of a British sports car. SMH SBF have two basic flavors, short deck and tall deck. Short deck is the 302 which can be bored and stroked to 347 or even 363. These are very nice engines for these cars. Tall deck is the 351W which can be bored and stroked to 393, 408, or 427. With EFI these engines start every time, idle, and drive like your wife's grocery getter except for when you step on the loud pedal. You can easily build them to have a nice lopey idle that just screams Cobra.

Coyote

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/Mi.../enginebay.jpg

SBF

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/Mi...iumrotated.jpg

For those commenting about the Coyote being tight in a Roadster, remember the OP is asking about a Mk5 Roadster. If anything like the Gen3 Coupe with a very similar space frame, the Coyote and whatever transmission you choose isn't as tight as the traditional tube chassis. Just happen to know that with my Gen 3 Coupe and a Gen 3 Coyote. Doesn't have to be ugly either. This picture is before I put a cover over the PCM which cleaned it up a little more. And for the record, some seem to think they will sound like a Mustang. They don't with long tube headers and side pipes. Many comment about how good mine sounds. Although it doesn't jump and bump at idle. I'm over that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1578509240

OP stated objective is "We want reliability and simplicity, safe to drive ". Siting the obvious, an iconic kit car is lacking a great deal of contemporary "safety".
"reliability and simplicity" suggests sticking to OEM spec parts and assemblies. Modifications compromise both.
Despite your not mentioning "track days" respondents have. Building for the track as it is acknowledged here, compromises street manners, and accept that you will out-speed some of the competitors all the time and all the competitors none of the time.
Complexity drives up cost and increases build time. I would temper ambition and spending through completion. Then having experienced the inevitably startling speed and performance, decide if you need more. BTW this moderate approach make your budget more predictable.
jim

Just FYI, the Coyote is still a tight fit in the Mk5...so much so that after we got the Beta cars some conflicts were discovered which necessitated a change to the production chassis.

Jeff

The Build School instructors felt pretty strongly that the 347 is the ideal engine for these cars. Not sure if they would apply that to the MK5 as well

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Just FYI, the Coyote is still a tight fit in the Mk5...so much so that after we got the Beta cars some conflicts were discovered which necessitated a change to the production chassis.

Jeff

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Good to know. Thanks. I assume that will be sorted out for the production versions. :rolleyes:

Some thoughts on engine selection.
First you need to make a decision of what your goal is and what kind of budget are you working with. There aren’t really any bad choices as long as you use a good builder. How much HP is enough for you and your son? How knowledgeable are you about engines, mechanicals and electrical? No engines are just plug and play. The simplest is probably a carbureted 302 and will get you around 300 HP dependably. I think the Godzilla will be the most complex because no one has experience with them, so there will certainly be challenges. There are a lot of Coyote builds out there so the knowledge base is there. That would get you into the 450-500 HP range and be very dependable once you get everything rigged correctly and tuned for your application. Then there are crate engines like Blueprint sells. You will need some mechanical skills with any of them. They are built conservatively, so they are not as robust as a custom built engine might be. They generally use less expensive parts in their builds (trying to be politically correct here), so you kind of get what you pay for. Lastly you can have a custom engine built (by a reputable shop) to your specs and power requirements. The sky’s the limit (and your wallet) in this arena. It’s easy to get wrapped up in the HP wars, but you’ll probably never be able to use a bunch of power.
Bottom line: If you want good power and not have to be tweaking things, go with a Coyote. If you like the old school look and sound of a Cobra and enjoy messing with things a pushrod engine might be the choice to make at whatever power level you want.
Anyway, keep asking questions. There are some very smart people on this forum.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

LS.

Hey, somebody had to say it! :D

Jeff

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Mr. Kleiner is spot on here. The size of a low-deck Ford Windsor (302, 347, 363), power and reliability of a Coyote. Arguably better aftermarket support than a Coyote. The aluminum block versions weigh a bit over 400 pounds with 6.2 liters (378ci) of displacement. The LS3 (aluminum block and heads) version has 430HP in factory trim, you can add an easy 100HP by simply swapping a SINGLE cam. The downside: you are somewhat blazing your own trail with the install. Not too many of us have done it, so there is some head scratching to do. It is supported by FFR, with mounts, headers, and instructions. At least it is becoming more popular. Some will argue that resale value is diminished. Hard to say one way or the other.

LS, much better overall choice. Superior power, weight , size and high performance durability.

For all the goodness of the LS, I have built quite a few, GM is running their version of the COYOTE in the C8. The future of ICE is DOHC's.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

For those commenting about the Coyote being tight in a Roadster, remember the OP is asking about a Mk5 Roadster. If anything like the Gen3 Coupe with a very similar space frame, the Coyote and whatever transmission you choose isn't as tight as the traditional tube chassis. Just happen to know that with my Gen 3 Coupe and a Gen 3 Coyote. Doesn't have to be ugly either. This picture is before I put a cover over the PCM which cleaned it up a little more. And for the record, some seem to think they will sound like a Mustang. They don't with long tube headers and side pipes. Many comment about how good mine sounds. Although it doesn't jump and bump at idle. I'm over that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1578509240

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Totally agree. You can make a Coyote look pretty nice under the hood.

Attachment 211547

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Originally Posted by cdurbin328

Totally agree. You can make a Coyote look pretty nice under the hood.

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Yes you can! Here's one that I did a few years ago.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1692962480

Cheers,
Jeff

Attachment 211548

I went with a Badass Racing 408W. If I had it to do over I would probably go with a little less than 550 HP. It's sideways a LOT!

Here Is Total Dark Side Sacrilege But You'd Have To Act Fast!

New Old Stock: ZL1 Aluminum 454Crate Engine

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/engine-90/

Article From Motortrend: December 1,2003

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/su...evy-big-block/

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

LS.

Hey, somebody had to say it! :D

Jeff

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You forgot to wear your respirator again.

I am old and definitely old school. Therefore, a Blueprint 347", carbed, is on order for my Mk5 due any day now.
Let the debate continue.
Ralph

If you like old school, a 347 is a great engine. You can go SBF 427 if you need the number.
Coyote is a great choice for more modern.
LS is a great engine. However, it will ding the resale value and salability.
Any of those can get you 500hp.

You want safe? That is up to the driver. When you and your son finish the car, do a full season of autocross. That way you will learn how to really drive it hard in a safe environment. That would be an awesome father / son thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Avalanche325

LS is a great engine. However, it will ding the resale value and salability.

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I agree with this 100%, but I'll be interested to see how much this holds true in the future as it becomes less about staying true to the original (e.g. the new MK5 chassis) and more about creating a hot-rod that looks like a Cobra.

Cobra’s and hot rods are not the same thing

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Originally Posted by rich grsc

Cobra’s and hot rods are not the same thing

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Semantics... "hot rods", not the traditional "Hot Rods" based on 20's and 30's cars. But I digress... my point was that these kits increasingly seem to be blank slates for what suits the builder, and because of that, I think resale value could become less of a function of the engine. Just my opinion. Didn't we just see a really nice one with a Honda 4-banger?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1742269744

I have nothing against an LS but I'm a purist in regards to putting a Ford motor in a Ford vehicle. If I was building a GM or Chevy then I would most definitely go LS swap.
Resale will depend on the right buyer. For me personally, if I see a cobra for sale with a chevy motor I immediately lose interest. That's just me though.
Everyone has their own tastes and budget so I try to always respect the build.

But these aren't Fords. They're Factory Fives. :)

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Originally Posted by OB6

But these aren't Fords. They're Factory Fives. :)

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Precisely! But now you’ve just applying logic ;) :)

Jeff

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Originally Posted by OB6

But these aren't Fords. They're Factory Fives. :)

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True but I've always equated Shelby with Ford :)