The Gentleman's Roadster, Bismarck Build: Dash finished

Hi Guys and Gals!

I've been a lurker here for a long time but I'm pulling the trigger on my Gentleman's Roadster build. It will be a MK4 with IRS, 363 Stroker built by Prestige Motorsports, Tremec TKX, painted British Racing Green with a tan leather interior, and several gadgets to customize the build. I have a few great ideas I hope I can realize with all of your help during the process! While I can't say it's a "Spare no expense" build, I would be quick to upgrade parts or add-ons that make the car more comfortable, or mechanically better in some way. Please keep those ideas coming.

This car will likely never be used for racing, autocross, drag, etc. Around town and spirited street driving is the goal, so comfort over cornering rigidity, etc. This is why I'm going with IRS, "touring suspension", and no front or rear swaybars.

I have been collecting tools and extra parts, rivet guns, etc, and have been spending a lot of time on aftermarket parts that improve the overall build. I have not ordered my kit yet as I'm still in the planning phase so the build goes quicker without hiccups. After talking to the FFR tech guys, I should have all the box choices decided upon for my build. I am expecting delivery of my 4 post bendpak car lift next week, and I recently built a gantry crane capable of about 2000 lbs for lifting things. I have my engine hoist with a new bottle jack and most of the tools at this time. I have recently built a new shop/storage unit so it should be plenty of space and nice and clean. I'm also going to do a time lapse of the build with a GoPro.

To start out, here are some options I have decided upon:

GasN headers and side pipes
Willwood brakes front and rear
Power steering, power brakes
3.55 rear gearing with 0.81 overdrive in the TKX
Mcleod twin disk RST clutch, 28 lb flywheel
Eaton detroit truetrac differential
Mechanical throttle linkage from M. Forte parts
seat heaters
17" chrome halibrand style wheels from Vintagewheelsus, in all chrome 17 x 9, 17 x 11.
Nitto 555 G2 tires
Dead pedal
Front Battery location from Breeze

I need your help to get this off the ground with a few critical decisions:

1: I don't like the shifter position with the forward bent shifter arm. The tremec TKX offers 3 shifter positions. The standard rear choice, an option to turn the rear shifter 180 degrees from the most rear position moving the shifter 2.5" forward, and a front position that is 4" farther forward which is called a "mid shift" location by tremec. I want to do a Gated shifter set up that I will fabricate. Trying to decide between the middle or front position for the tremec. Is the forward position too far forward? I'm worried about the shifter knob hitting the dash because I will have to have a longer shifter arm to make the gated shifter possible (the gated shifter plate will likely be mounted about 3-4" above the normal transmission tunnel cover.)

2: Are there any aftermarket parts I should source to help me with the first phase of the build to improve the roadster (up until engine installation). There seems to be a lot of conversation about tie rod ends being a problem.

3: Many seem to complain about the e-brake that comes with the kit. I'm looking at the electronic e-brake options. I have a Jeep CJ7 with a crappy e-brake and it's miserable. I would really like a secure e-brake.

Thanks for all the opinions, I'll start adding pictures shortly.

I used an E-Stopp electric parking brake and it works great. I was never able to get the manual to work well. I saw just read recently that someone fabricated their own electric parking brake that they seem very happy with as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cfriedman67

I used an E-Stopp electric parking brake and it works great. I was never able to get the manual to work well. I saw just read recently that someone fabricated their own electric parking brake that they seem very happy with as well.

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Yeah, that was me. I should pull that out of my build thread and move it to the main forum when it's fully done.


Hey Dakota

Congrats on your new build and welcome. You are far ahead of the game by knowing what you want your car to be before starting. That is huge honestly. The dual clutch is fine but probably overkill. These cars are so light. Other than that I would recommend reading as many build threads as possible. Also another pro tip, if you have questions and want to search the forum it is more effective to go to google and type Factory Five then what you are looking for than using the search function here. It just does a better job of filtering. Also pulls stuff from the other board which is nice.

Love green by the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Hi Guys and Gals!

I've been a lurker here for a long time but I'm pulling the trigger on my Gentleman's Roadster build. It will be a MK4 with IRS, 363 Stroker built by Prestige Motorsports, Tremec TKX, painted British Racing Green with a tan leather interior, and several gadgets to customize the build. I have a few great ideas I hope I can realize with all of your help during the process! While I can't say it's a "Spare no expense" build, I would be quick to upgrade parts or add-ons that make the car more comfortable, or mechanically better in some way. Please keep those ideas coming.

This car will likely never be used for racing, autocross, drag, etc. Around town and spirited street driving is the goal, so comfort over cornering rigidity, etc. This is why I'm going with IRS, "touring suspension", and no front or rear swaybars. Swaybars have no negative impact on ride comfort but will help counter the increased roll that will occur due to the soft springs. Something to consider...

I have been collecting tools and extra parts, rivet guns, etc, and have been spending a lot of time on aftermarket parts that improve the overall build. I have not ordered my kit yet as I'm still in the planning phase so the build goes quicker without hiccups. After talking to the FFR tech guys, I should have all the box choices decided upon for my build. I am expecting delivery of my 4 post bendpak car lift next week, and I recently built a gantry crane capable of about 2000 lbs for lifting things. I have my engine hoist with a new bottle jack and most of the tools at this time. I have recently built a new shop/storage unit so it should be plenty of space and nice and clean. I'm also going to do a time lapse of the build with a GoPro.

To start out, here are some options I have decided upon:

GasN headers and side pipes
Willwood brakes front and rear
Power steering, power brakes
3.55 rear gearing with 0.81 overdrive in the TKX Might want to rethink this. That combination will result in an overall final drive ratio in fifth gear of 2.87:1. That'll be getting a little busy at Interstate speeds of 75-80 MPH (it'll be running 2,800-3,000 RPM). My opinion is that the best combination with a 3.55 rear is the TCET17765 with a 2.87 first and .68 fifth.
Mcleod twin disk RST clutch, 28 lb flywheel I agree with Jesse "Blitzboy"
Eaton detroit truetrac differential
Mechanical throttle linkage from M. Forte parts
seat heaters
17" chrome halibrand style wheels from Vintagewheelsus, in all chrome 17 x 9, 17 x 11.
Nitto 555 G2 tires
Dead pedal
Front Battery location from Breeze

I need your help to get this off the ground with a few critical decisions:

1: I don't like the shifter position with the forward bent shifter arm. The tremec TKX offers 3 shifter positions. The standard rear choice, an option to turn the rear shifter 180 degrees from the most rear position moving the shifter 2.5" forward, and a front position that is 4" farther forward which is called a "mid shift" location by tremec. I want to do a Gated shifter set up that I will fabricate. Trying to decide between the middle or front position for the tremec. Is the forward position too far forward? I'm worried about the shifter knob hitting the dash because I will have to have a longer shifter arm to make the gated shifter possible (the gated shifter plate will likely be mounted about 3-4" above the normal transmission tunnel cover.)

2: Are there any aftermarket parts I should source to help me with the first phase of the build to improve the roadster (up until engine installation). There seems to be a lot of conversation about tie rod ends being a problem. There is not a problem with the supplied tie rod ends.

3: Many seem to complain about the e-brake that comes with the kit. I'm looking at the electronic e-brake options. I have a Jeep CJ7 with a crappy e-brake and it's miserable. I would really like a secure e-brake.

Thanks for all the opinions, I'll start adding pictures shortly.

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Good luck and have fun

Jeff

Welcome and I look forward to following along with your build.

I also recommend the .68 5th gear ratio instead of the .81. Especially with that size engine and what I assume will be a conservative camshaft. It will be happier turning lower rpm on the highway and so will you.

I have a SBF with the TKX midshift (the furthest forward position) and love it. I actually put on a shift stick with a slight dogleg forward to push it up another 3/4" or so (I have long arms). No issues hitting the dash. Feel free to visit my build thread link below for pics.

I also recommend all the Breeze products listed on the first post of my build thread. I didn't buy parts just to buy them and always had a reason to use them instead of the FFR supplied part. I would highly recommend any aftermarket parts I used that are listed in my build. I think they are well worth the additional expense.

Thanks guys! Really great comments so far. I honestly thought I would have things farther along by now, but since every decision seems to impact some other decision, I'm trying to be as complete in my choices as possible.

Very interesting about the front and rear sway bars. I will have to dig on that a little. I don't mine buying and installing them if they benefit more than they detract. I suppose I can always take them off, but it's probably harder to install them once the car is finished.

I was worried about the clutch. I really have no way of knowing the difference in pedal feel etc. Prestige recommended this one, while I would have probably chosen the Mcleod super street pro single disk. I understand a 363 Stroker can make a lot of power, but I'm not trying to over build this. Unlikely I would abuse the car enough to damage the single disk clutch. I wasn't sure how firm the horse power recommendations are on those. I'll probably make that switch to the single disk super street pro.

I have been all over the place on the transmission gearing and rear gears. For a while I was going to have Mike Forte build me a 3.31 with the 0.68 5th, but didn't want to lose the ability to use 5th in a low RPM cruising gear 45-60 mph. Since the horse power of my engine may end up closer to 500 or above when I was shooting for 400-450, I thought a 3.31 rear would tame the potential wheel spin from a dead stop. It's hard to ignore the overwhelming agreement on the 3.55 gearing on multiple forums. Higher numerical rear gears than 3.55 are definitely out. Switching a rear gear is possible, while I'm married to the transmission. All that being said, I had thought hard about the 0.68 5th and may make that change back.

Any comments on flywheel weight? Many recommend 22-24 lbs, where Prestige priced out my build with a 28 lb. I understand the rotating mass helps first gear starts in lower RPM without killing the engine, but you may lose on throttle responsiveness. Seemed like an OK compromise to me.

I too, did the midshift kit on the TKX (forward-most position). I am only running a 5 1/2" handle, but here's a couple of pics to give you an idea. I did have to cut one of the tunnel braces to make room. Good luck!
Attachment 205711 Attachment 205712

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Originally Posted by robmccon

I too, did the midshift kit on the TKX (forward-most position). I am only running a 5 1/2" handle, but here's a couple of pics to give you an idea. I did have to cut one of the tunnel braces to make room. Good luck!
Attachment 205711 Attachment 205712

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Thanks! I think I have to go this route. I'm going to try fabricate a gated shifter set up. If I have to make a slight rearward bend because the shifter arm is too long I don't think it will be too bad. I appreciate the pictures from you and others.

I used a 22 lb flywheel after consulting with Mike Forte and have been very happy with it. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-1529lw

Went with this clutch from Ram https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-88794hdt

And used this hydraulic throwout bearing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-60-6102

IMO, Ram and Tilton are miles ahead of McLeod in quality. I've never had an issue with Ram or Tilton while I can't say the same for McLeod.

If you go with the Tilton HTB use a 13/16" bore MC.

I was always under the impression that the Gentleman's Cobra has an under-car exhaust.

You do you, that's the best part about Cobra builds though. Good luck. :cool:

Interesting you bring that up Matt! I can't make too many assumptions before I get the frame in my shop, but I am toying with the idea of doing both side pipes and under car exhaust. The two options I can figure is having GasN welding in an exhaust cutout between the headers and the side pipe attachment, running that exhaust through the transmission tunnel to some quiet mufflers, and dumping it in front or behind the rear tires. The benefit would be starting this up in my garage and driving through my neighborhood going to and from work during later hours, and as an added benefit cool the side pipes before you exit the car.

I have seen a post where someone drilled two 3-4" holes in the rear tubular frame and welded in horizontal steel tube for exhaust to pass. Seems like it would work. It depends how possible this is, and how quiet I can actually make this car. If this is possible, I may order the "standard" volume pipes from GasN instead of the touring if I have a quiet switch in the car.

I was considering shopping around for used headers and side pipes just to see how loud the car is before I make a decision on this option.

On the topic of clutches, RAM seems to be a recommended clutch brand by the group here and Mike Forte. That would suggest the Powergrip Performance Clutch Kits that are rated up to 550 which should be plenty. It's a single disk with organic on one side and metallic friction on the pressure side. It does say there can be chatter in low RPMs especially with low numerical rear gears. Is this the clutch you would all recommend for my 363 stroker? I was thinking this would make about 450 hp and torque but Prestige suggests it may be north of 500.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

On the topic of clutches, RAM seems to be a recommended clutch brand by the group here and Mike Forte. That would suggest the Powergrip Performance Clutch Kits that are rated up to 550 which should be plenty. It's a single disk with organic on one side and metallic friction on the pressure side. It does say there can be chatter in low RPMs especially with low numerical rear gears. Is this the clutch you would all recommend for my 363 stroker? I was thinking this would make about 450 hp and torque but Prestige suggests it may be north of 500.

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I can tell you my Ram clutch with the Tilton HTB is smooth as silk. It's actually kind of scary how smooth is actuates.

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

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245, 255 and 275 will all rub when the wheel is at or very near full lock. As I've said before it's not an issue in normal use unless your idea of "normal use" includes trying to make multipoint turnarounds inside of your 2 car garage! You do need to make sure that your bodywork guy knows to trim the excess from the front wheel well returns.

Jeff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

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I have Nitto NT555 G2 275/40/17 on the front with the stock F panels and they do rub at full lock. I installed some steering limiters from Breeze, I think two per side. I don't even notice even when making a U-turn. https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/st...-limit-spacer/

My wheels are from Vintage and they are gorgeous. Good company to deal with also. My drive pin lugs were the wrong thread, I called and he sent replacements right out no questions asked. Of course I returned to wrong ones but he didn't seem too concerned, only that I was a happy customer.

Good to know! Also happy to hear Vintagewheelsus is a good company to deal with. Happy to support all those who support the FFR community. I'll go with the 275 then because Vintagewheels will mount and balance them for me. Maybe the F-Panel was unnecessary, but oh well. Probably won't hurt to put it on.

Another update: I make what's likely to be my first of several Breezeautotmotive orders.

Lower radiator support mount
Engine compartment battery kit
Radiator cowl cover
steering rack travel limit spacer x 2
dead pedal kit
hand deburring tool
wilwood remote brake balance bar adjuster

At this point I believe I'm just a conversation with Mike Forte away from ordering my roadster kit from FFR! I'm hoping to get most of these parts delivered, sorted, stored, and the frame set up in my shop for the start of the build around January 1.

Some additional Breeze items that are worth considering. I used all of these are was very pleased.

Radiator Cowl Cover Kit
Hinged Radiator Mounting Kit
Seat Mounts
Offset Rack Mounting Kit
Cockpit Storage Cubby Kit
Lower Radiator Hose Kit
Lower Radiator Hose Bracket
Billet Side View Mirrors (expensive but very nice and give a good view to the rear)
Roll Bar Kit (personal preference, I don't like the paperclip look of the FFR bars)

I had the RAM Powergrip on the last build, and it was great. I went with the Centerforce Dual Friction this time. I second what Mike recommended from Breeze adding the Radiator Aluminum Panel and Under Dash Filler panel from Replica Parts (Michael Everson). 520 Speedworks also offers a precut Lexan windshield alternative which I'm considering. AND, don't forget the turn signal from Frank at i.e.427. Really nice parts. \

Have fun!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike.Bray

IMO, Ram and Tilton are miles ahead of McLeod in quality. I've never had an issue with Ram or Tilton while I can't say the same for McLeod.

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I'll say the same about McLeod. Received two flywheels from them. One was rusted and the other had the dowel holes drilled two large. Their recommendation was to add loctite and use it anyway. No thanks.

Update to build:

I ordered my complete kit from FFR on 10/30/24, so that's a big step! Several more orders followed:

427 shelby 5 lug polished wheels, spinners, and lug covers from Vintagewheelsus.com (17x9, 17x11), with mounted and balanced Nitto 555 G2 tires front and rear. (275/40/17; 315/35/17).

Brushed stainless headers and polished stainless side pipes (Touring sound level) from GasN. E Stopp Brake kit, Radiator fan shroud, hinged radiator mounting kit, rear cubby divider in trunk, lower radiator hose and support.

I also ordered the center section, and rear end pieces from Mike Forte's Parts connection, front sway bar, black caliper front and rear Wilwood brakes, and triple billet reservoir system. I decided to go with 3.31 gears in the rear and I'm having him install an Eaton detroit truetrac diff. That should give me better RPM range on the highway and not choke out my 363 too much on the low end.

I also stumbled across 427 Hardtops and I'm very interested in adding that to my build sheet. Being in North Dakota, a little cover may give me an extra month of drivability on each side of summer. They use Revivalmotoricons.com in New Hampshire to source them in the US for the FFR MK4. I have called them and the guy seems very personable and excited about this product.

Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.

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Not knowing what paint youre doing makes it difficult to say with certainty, but $30k+ for paint seems extremely high. Sounds more like a "we dont want your business, but if you're dumb enough to pay it, we'll do it" price. There are many painters in here that are familiar with the cars, and are a bit more friendlier to your wallet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Update to build:



Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.

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No, that is absolutely insane. I know you can ship it to CT, even with shipping the paint would be half of you lower range there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable?

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No. Not even close.

Jeff

I've been talking to several people about doing the prep bodywork and paint and the range I'm finding is between $15,000-$20,000 in my area.

About Paint:

I was hoping for $8,000-$10,000 for paint, but was prepared for $12,000 or slightly higher. $30K was bad, then he mentioned a 24 month lead time and 6 months to paint it. Won't be going with that business. I do understand that everything is more expensive and I have heard a gallon of paint may run up to $3,000 depending on what you are doing.

It did get me thinking, and I think I need to approach this question differently. I gather the brand of paint matters when selecting color from an R/G/B and additives standpoint. You apparently can't give a paint code and get the same color unless you are using the same brand. I'm sure there are different brands that are high quality, and maybe some types of paint that work best on our vinyl resin bodies. Does anyone have recommendations on Brands of paint/clearcoat that works on our cars? Do most recommend painting with the body on the car? I've seen the FFR video #1 unpacking your kit and saw how much the car bends under its own weight. I assume this could crack the coating? Any red flags to watch out for as far as lead time? What if someone says they can block, primer, paint, clear coat in a few weeks? Is that possible or are they taking shortcuts? When I search for painters, what am I looking for? This is a weird questions, but are they all autobody shops or should I be seeking hot rod/custom car businesses? I'm not even sure I'm searching for the right type of business.

I guess I don't speak the language enough to know what I am buying based on what they are promising. I want a very nice, single color paint job with some slight metalic flake. I'm willing to pay for multiple clear coats to give it depth and shine. I will be adding the 427 Hard top as well to the paint job. When I call more places, I will ask the following questions: What brand of primer, paint, clear coat would you use on this car? What is your clear coat process? What is your lead time? How long does the process take? What is your cost for your best work? is there a cheaper option that is also very good?

As always I appreciate all your help on here with any information you can provide, especially what type of paint and clear coat I should be shopping for and works on our cars. Should I recommend they paint my car with the body installed on the chassis? Of course, if anyone knows a paint specialist in North Dakota or even Minnesota, Minneapolis would be the closest reasonable city to go for paint.

Paint is definitely a niche market and I advise taking time to find the right person. Just like plumbers and foundation work, always get at least 3 bids. Prices are all over the place and a little homework can save you thousands or tens of thousands. If you look long enough and hard enough you will find someone who will do a good job for a reasonable price...but that might take some time to figure out. You're asking all the right questions. Take the time to get educated, that's where I am in the process myself.

As for the paint price/materials, don't feel like you have to go with the crazy expensive stuff. As in everything there is a point of diminishing return on how much things cost. A good quality midrange paint will look great if laid down properly. As long as you have a decent product it's really more about the painter and proper application than the paint. Steer clear if someone is trying to sell you on crazy expensive materials...unless you want the perfect showcar, that is.

Yeah I agree with everything you said. I guess if someone can say "Definitely DON'T paint with "X-brand or style of clearcoat" or else it will crack, de-bond, etc.", I would appreciate that. There seems to be comments about the flexibility or rigidity of our bodies from the painters I have spoken with that is making them think of certain methods of painting, but I'm not sure.

I went through a heck of a time with my paint & bodywork as I've documented in my build thread. What I learned:

No matter how good the shop is it always comes down to the people. After the initial bodywork there was a change in employees and the new ones turned out to be wankers. Ultimately it comes down to the owner and he wasn't minding the (body) store so it all got out of control.

Painters usually align themselves with one brand like PPG or BASF and are very uncomfortable using something different. A lot of times they have local support for whatever brand they are aligned with. In my case the shop used BASF who own several brands such as R&M. While researching colors the owner suggested we look at House of Kolor and said they had used it before and had no issues with it. HOK also has a tech guy based here locally so that's what we did.

Most paints are pigmented. Others are dyed, known as candies. We went with a HOK candy blue applied over a silver ground coat.

They tried to spray the stripes on top of the candy blue without enough sealer (clear) and the dye in the blue bled through the white. Problem number one.

Problem number two, the shop made a very fundamental error, like painting 101, and used two different brands for the silver ground coat and the candy basecoat. Paints are chemicals and are engineered to work together. Mixing brands caused an adhesion problem and they had to strip the entire car.

For round two they (finally) worked with the local HOK tech guy and used all HOK paint and clearcoat. This time everything turned out gorgeous. They also blamed all of the issues on using HOK instead of their preferred brand, conveniently forgetting they were the ones that suggested HOK!

IMO this shop was too big and more focused on the car building side than the paint & body side. I think it's better to work with a smaller dedicated paint & body shop, there's a father & son shop not far from me that's done a few FFR Cobras for very fair money and they've turned out gorgeous.

FWIW, automotive paint can range from a few hundred dollars a gallon to a few thousand. The HOK paint we used was not only spectacular but was very reasonable at $600/gal.

Rule #1 from somebody who has done "a few" ;) Go with someone who has done these cars before (but not just one---and Corvettes don't count---apples and oranges). There are lots of nuances along with products and process that are known to work. You don't want to be a guinea pig.

Jeff

Quick update:

Purchased Motion Raceworks Steering quick release based on i.e.427's recommendations as he is building my turn signal hub part.

I've decided to move forward with a hard top for the cobra from 427hardtops. May buy me 2 more months of driving weather up here in ND.

Questions:

Please help direct me to a forum thread discussing exhaust routing to the rear of my MK4. I can't seem to find one using the search function. I remember seeing a post one time with someone drilling 3" holes in the tubular rear frame for another round pipe welded in for a pass through. I'm very interested in this particular mod for the roadster. I would keep the side pipes, but add dual exhaust cutouts (really acting as side pipe cutoffs, where open is both exhaust systems and closed is only stealth exhaust), that run exhaust to the quietest muffler/maybe cat system I can fit in the roadster. I don't care if it dumps exhaust in front or behind the rear tire, out the back etc. I'd rather not even see the hidden exhaust on the outside. I would even give up trunk space to wall off an area for the muffler system. Stealth exhaust used to come and go from my neighborhood for sound and on longer drives when I don't need the extra power or sound. If I can accomplish this, I may go with standard volume side pipes instead of touring versions as I would have a quieter option. As a possible added benefit, it may prevent the loss of around 50 horse power from using touring side pipes because the open position allows exhaust to go through both systems reducing restriction to some degree.

1: Can it be done while still having side pipes
2: Where is the best place to rout the exhaust
3: Where can I mount the muffler or mufflers (I don't mind a Y pipe with one exhaust to one large muffler as this is only about the quietest exhaust possible in a cobra)
4: Any downside to doing this? Will my ECU constantly be struggling with the engine if the cutouts are turned on and off? Is there a way to have the cut out switch change to a different ECU profile (could be a valet mode that limits throttle/power/rev limit so I could let others drive the car?)

Thanks guys. I'll keep looking

Update:

My "Build Date" was yesterday December 7th, so shipping should be soon. I have completed my body buck and received my wheels and tires in the mail. Mike Forte is working on the IRS rear end which should be done soon. We are also working to finalize the build sheet on the 363 engine.

I was scrolling the forums last night and noticed a page about FFR coming out with a Mark 5. What!? I have to admit I was a little salty about this. I specifically asked them in a phone call one month ago if a Mark V was in the works, and if so, I would wait and get the new model if it isn't too far in the future. I got a hard no. Now my complete kit isn't even shipped yet and they have a Mark V? Damn. I don't think there's anything to do about it as I've already ordered panels from Breeze, Wheels, E-Stopp brake kit, and other parts that fit the MK4, not to mention the hard top I have on order! Bad timing I guess.


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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Good to know! Also happy to hear Vintagewheelsus is a good company to deal with. Happy to support all those who support the FFR community. I'll go with the 275 then because Vintagewheels will mount and balance them for me. Maybe the F-Panel was unnecessary, but oh well. Probably won't hurt to put it on.

Another update: I make what's likely to be my first of several Breezeautotmotive orders.

Lower radiator support mount
Engine compartment battery kit
Radiator cowl cover
steering rack travel limit spacer x 2
dead pedal kit
hand deburring tool
wilwood remote brake balance bar adjuster

At this point I believe I'm just a conversation with Mike Forte away from ordering my roadster kit from FFR! I'm hoping to get most of these parts delivered, sorted, stored, and the frame set up in my shop for the start of the build around January 1.

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yup, was going to say you'll end up getting a lot of stuff from Mark

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Quick update:

Purchased Motion Raceworks Steering quick release based on i.e.427's recommendations as he is building my turn signal hub part.

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Part number? I was early in the process and I want quick release. If I can make mine work with that I would be delighted…

Since you’re still finalizing your 363 details and given your previous comments I’ll mention this. Give some thought to cam selection. A big cam will work against your ‘sneak out of the neighborhood’ metric in two ways. More overlap means more exhaust noise, and higher usable RPM. I have a mild cam and can have 4th pull me through the neighborhood at ~1600 rpm. That combined with Georgie’s touring pipes makes for a pretty tame sound. Cobras never sneak but I don’t have to piss off the neighbors if I don’t want to. I still get my 400+ hp up top. I love the 3.55 / .68 combo. Based on my experience you made a great choice with the True Trak.

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Originally Posted by John Ibele

Since you’re still finalizing your 363 details and given your previous comments I’ll mention this. Give some thought to cam selection. A big cam will work against your ‘sneak out of the neighborhood’ metric in two ways. More overlap means more exhaust noise, and higher usable RPM. I have a mild cam and can have 4th pull me through the neighborhood at ~1600 rpm. That combined with Georgie’s touring pipes makes for a pretty tame sound. Cobras never sneak but I don’t have to piss off the neighbors if I don’t want to. I still get my 400+ hp up top. I love the 3.55 / .68 combo. Based on my experience you made a great choice with the True Trak.

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John's spittin truth here.

Part of the reason I went with the Coyote the second time. I wanted a tamer sounding engine.

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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota

Update:

My "Build Date" was yesterday December 7th, so shipping should be soon. I have completed my body buck and received my wheels and tires in the mail. Mike Forte is working on the IRS rear end which should be done soon. We are also working to finalize the build sheet on the 363 engine.

I was scrolling the forums last night and noticed a page about FFR coming out with a Mark 5. What!? I have to admit I was a little salty about this. I specifically asked them in a phone call one month ago if a Mark V was in the works, and if so, I would wait and get the new model if it isn't too far in the future. I got a hard no. Now my complete kit isn't even shipped yet and they have a Mark V? Damn. I don't think there's anything to do about it as I've already ordered panels from Breeze, Wheels, E-Stopp brake kit, and other parts that fit the MK4, not to mention the hard top I have on order! Bad timing I guess.


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That's a totally understandable frustration. As a business owner and FFR customer I can see it from both sides, but it's hard to feel/be deliberately misled. Having the option would have been nice. I had some similar feelings when I first heard of the Mk5, but I will say that after looking at the new chassis and reading about it I'm happy with the Mk4. For my use I don't think the Mk5 would serve me any better. I don't think most people would be able to tell the difference unless you are racing it. From my perspective they simplified their manufacturing by merging this chassis with the coupe chassis so they have less diversity of parts, etc. It being a 'better chassis' by using more of a space frame design is a happy byproduct. But again, I don't think 99% of us are ever really going to be able to tell the difference. It's the new and shiny thing...but better? Meh. Maybe a little. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just my take on it. Although I will say a bigger footbox is nice...but you can modify the one on the Mk4 if that's really a problem.

Although a body without all the big, nasty mold seams would have been nice...

Thanks JMD!

I totally agree with your above statement. There are ways to roll this out but someone loses either way. In the end, I chose to build an MK4 and benefit from the 12 years of build threads and knowledge gained. I also have purchased so many extras even though my kit hasn't arrived. I'm still a happy customer and hope the build goes smoothly.

As another update, Stewart Transportation contacted me yesterday and we finalized shipping! Should be December 19th or somewhere around there if the weather holds up here. Looking forward to inventory.

Question: Should I get the aluminum panels off and send them straight to powder coat or should I drill for rivits, fit with clecos, and get farther along before powder coating?

I agree, and that is also what Mike Forte has recommended. I'm going with a mild cam and Georgie's touring pipes as well. I have decided to go with the 3.31 / 0.81 combo as I just don't see me using it on the interstate much. And that should help tame the low end torque direction of the build as well.

Here is the part # for motion raceworks quick release:

Motion Raceworks: Motion GM/Ford Bolt-On SFI Steering Quick Release Hub 5/6 Bolt Pattern 15-270
15-270-1, $169